<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3100</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/27/00 11:21:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 27 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3100<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: OT: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
Quizzes lead to punning and the harder stuff<BR>
Re: Jump Point Distance<BR>
Re: Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
Re: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
GT ship designs<BR>
RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
Re: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR>
Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
Re: Terminal Velocity<BR>
Re: Quizzes lead to punning and the harder stuff<BR>
Plasma Cannon<BR>
Re: Laws<BR>
Re: Terminal Velocity<BR>
RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
tml low message volume?<BR>
Re: Terminal Velocity<BR>
Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:58:09 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
<BR>
Kagehira@aol.com asks:<BR>
<BR>
>    I have a question about some files I have that are .SEA and .CPT disks. <BR>
>If I recall correctly the SEA format was some sort of equivalent to a zip <BR>
>file. If so can somebody unarchive them for me (or is there a program for <BR>
>IBM's that can handle them?<BR>
><BR>
>    On the .CPT files, I have no firm idea of what they are (graphics <BR>
maybe), <BR>
>can somebody tell me?<BR>
><BR>
>Bryan<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
 SEA on a Mac stands for "Self Extracting Archive," so it should be a simple <BR>
matter to get at the contents. StuffIt was probably used to make the file, <BR>
and can be used to get into it.<BR>
 .CPT files are from one of StuffIt's predecessors, called Compactor. StuffIt <BR>
should open those as well. They could be anything...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:58:54 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Quizzes lead to punning and the harder stuff<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:37:40 -0700<BR>
> From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
> <BR>
> Ice see nothing wrong with what he said...he's clearly a man with a tail<BR>
> to tell.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, I'd definitely keep an ion him.<BR>
<BR>
> > Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
> > <BR>
> > > Oort McLeod?  A man with his head in the clouds, no doubt.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > I would expect a pun like that from you.<BR>
> > Tis truly a sad cometary on your sanity.<BR>
<BR>
You Kuiper puns away from my brother!  (Though Lord knows, by this time I<BR>
should be beyond the point of Charon...)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:58:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump Point Distance<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Just ran the numbers on gravity gradients at 100D from a planet using<BR>
> the formulas in Book 2:<BR>
><BR>
> Size 1 =3D 0.0000032G<BR>
> Size 2 =3D 0.0000064G<BR>
> Size 3 =3D 0.0000094G<BR>
> Size 4 =3D 0.0000125G<BR>
> Size 5 =3D 0.0000156G<BR>
> Size 6 =3D 0.0000188G<BR>
> Size 7 =3D 0.0000219G<BR>
> Size 8 =3D 0.0000250G<BR>
> Size 9 =3D 0.0000281G<BR>
> Size 10 =3D 0.0000312G<BR>
> Jupiter =3D 0.0002649G<BR>
> Saturn =3D 0.0002115G<BR>
> Uranus =3D 0.0000232G<BR>
> Neptune =3D 0.0000298G<BR>
><BR>
> If you were going for a gravity-based system, I'd say you'd have to be<BR>
> beyond the 0.0003G gradient before making a jump -- of course, this<BR>
> makes possible jumps a lot closer to most planets.<BR>
<BR>
The mere fact that the figures are *different* for different size<BR>
planets shows that the *acceleration* at 100D isn't the crucial factor.<BR>
<BR>
It's easy to show that you need a factor that varies as the *cube* of<BR>
the distance (because the mass of the planet varies as the cube of the<BR>
diameter). <BR>
<BR>
Tidal forces are (roughly):<BR>
<BR>
A/L = G*M/R^3.<BR>
A = accel<BR>
L = distance from the center of mass of the body being affected by the<BR>
    tidal forces<BR>
G = gravitational constant (6.67259e-11)<BR>
M = mass of planet<BR>
R = distance from center of mass of planet<BR>
<BR>
It's actually a bit more complicated, as the forces are different in<BR>
different directions. That gives you the acceleration *towards* the<BR>
center of mass for directions at right angles to the line joining the<BR>
COM with the planet's COM. You get *double this amount of acceleration<BR>
*away* from the COM for points *along* the line.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, *this* gives constant results for standard planets. And results<BR>
that aren't too far off for real "rocky" planets. Less dense planets &<BR>
stars have a closer "safe jump" limit.<BR>
<BR>
Acceleration (gravity) is the *slope* of the gravity well. Tidal forces<BR>
are the curvature (ie the rate at which the slope *changes* in<BR>
different directions)<BR>
<BR>
Oh yeah, another detail. This means that there's a factor of *one<BR>
thousand* difference between the forces at 10 diameters and 100<BR>
diameters. No wonder it's so much riskier. :-)<BR>
<BR>
And a factor of 1 *million* difference between the surface and 100<BR>
diameters. <BR>
<BR>
> Maybe mass impingement upon jump space has a lot less to do with<BR>
> gravity and a lot more to do with the physical size of the planet ...<BR>
<BR>
Remember, since "standard" planets are assuymed to have the same<BR>
*density*, that means that their mass is *directly* dependent on their<BR>
size. Specificly on the *cube* of their size. <BR>
<BR>
If a size 1 planet has a mass of M, and a radius of R:<BR>
<BR>
                             A/(G*L) = M/R^3<BR>
size  diameter  mass    surface  10 diam  100 diam<BR>
- ----  --------  -----   -------  -------  --------<BR>
1      2R          1M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7<BR>
2      4R          8M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7      <BR>
3      6R         27M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7<BR>
4      8R         64M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7<BR>
5     10R        125M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7<BR>
6     12R        216M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7<BR>
7     14R        343M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7<BR>
8     16R        512M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7<BR>
9     18R        729M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7<BR>
A     20R       1000M   1        1.25e-4  1.25e-7<BR>
<BR>
Plug in figures for actual mass and radius, and you'll get an answer in<BR>
meters/s^2 per meter (accel/distance).<BR>
<BR>
For Earth:<BR>
<BR>
M=5.7942e24 kg<BR>
R=6.37814e6 m<BR>
<BR>
A/L = 6.67259e-11 * 5.7942e24 / (6.37814e6)^3<BR>
A/L = 1.49e-6 (m/s^2)/m (surface)<BR>
1.86e-10 (10 diam)<BR>
1.86e-13 (100 diam)<BR>
<BR>
So, let's say the values are:<BR>
<BR>
 "10 diameters" = 1.8e-10 (m/s^2)/m<BR>
"100 diameters" = 1.8e-13 (m/s^2)/m<BR>
<BR>
We can work backwards from those to get the limits for various stars<BR>
and planets using *just* their mass.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:40:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> There must be lots of cases in the history of the 3I where Imperial policies<BR>
> were implemented which caused strangely unanticipated consequences. On<BR>
> individual planets there are probably even more examples.<BR>
><BR>
> I remember reading a story about China, in which they decided to<BR>
> systematically chase away some sort of small bird which was around in such<BR>
> great numbers that it was a nuisance. So the Chinese mercilessly chased the<BR>
> birds, allowing them no time to sleep. The birds eventually either died or<BR>
> flew far away. The result: insects, the birds' preferred food, then<BR>
> multiplied unchecked. Wait! Bring back the birds!<BR>
><BR>
> I assume that you must have lots of similar stories in the 3I, where<BR>
> colonists don't quite understand the ecosystem, and do things with<BR>
> far-reaching and serious consequences.<BR>
<BR>
We had a discussion about that a year or two back. <BR>
<BR>
I maintain that the horror stories of colonies that trashed their<BR>
ecosystems (in extreme cases, winding up with oceans full of rotting<BR>
sludge and not enough plant life to produce oxygen) are well enough<BR>
known that on many worlds (and *all* world/stations where they can't<BR>
breathe the local air) unauthorized dumping, unauthorized importation<BR>
of animals/plants, and failure to properly recycle are serious<BR>
felonies, if not *capital* crimes.<BR>
<BR>
Folks from "friendly" worlds "just don't get it" until they've spent a<BR>
long time travelling around. And they tend to get treated as "mobile<BR>
disaster areas" by the locals until and unless they show that they<BR>
know what they are doing. <BR>
<BR>
"Old Spacehands" tend to have similar feelings about "groundhogs"<BR>
unless they are belters, from vacuum worlds, etc. And they have their<BR>
own stories about "stupid groundgrippers" (a phrase they'll maintain is<BR>
redundant, as *all* ground=grippers are stupid :-)<BR>
<BR>
Like the one about the passenger who wanted to go out on the hull to<BR>
get a better look at the planet... without a suit!<BR>
<BR>
The stories about planetary diasters aren't considered "funny". They<BR>
get spread around because people are fascinated by horror stories.<BR>
<BR>
I figure that in the early days of colonization, there were probably at<BR>
least a couple worlds where they realized that the ecosystem was going<BR>
to hell *fast* just *after* a ship visited. Leaving the colonists<BR>
trying to survive not merely until the next ship, but until it can get<BR>
back home and an evacuation can be organized. <BR>
<BR>
Just picture trying to evacuate even a "mere" 10,000 or so people via<BR>
starships... <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:00:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: MAC? SEA and CPT files<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I think CPT are compact pro files. It was a shareware archiving package. The<BR>
> current freeware Stuffit expander will unpack them on a Mac. I don't know if<BR>
> the windows version will handle the format or not.<BR>
<BR>
I've got a pair of MS-DOS programs that are supposed to extract stuff<BR>
from Compact Pro archives. As well as one that's supposed to extract<BR>
stuff from SIT archives.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:15:34 -0500<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
Subject: GT ship designs<BR>
<BR>
I have about a dozen or so GT ship designs (mainly TL10) on my site below.<BR>
Just click on the 'GURPS vehicles' link.<BR>
<BR>
Of lesser interest are the notes of a stalled MegaTraveller PBEM (GURPS<BR>
Miscellania)<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:33:10 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> 2*pi is *by definition* dimensionless.<BR>
<BR>
Unless is has units attached. For example, I measure the length of my<BR>
pencil, and it turns out to be exactly 2*pi inches long.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:49:46 -0700<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR>
<BR>
>On JTAS and Pyramid, there has been a lot of discussion on the ineffectivness<BR>
of<BR>
>missiles in GT (primarily<BR>
>due to the point defense rules). Here are two options:<BR>
Some would consider this realistic; rapid-fire lasers will essentially always<BR>
hit<BR>
impact missiles. In addition, the game balance implications of making life<BR>
easier<BR>
for missiles are worrying - the GT missiles are quite undersized; if they can<BR>
hit<BR>
easily, it would be easy to design bigger/faster missiles doing enormously<BR>
more damage and becoming the domiant weapon even in captial ship space<BR>
combat.<BR>
<BR>
A better alternative would be to introduce different kind of warheads that do<BR>
less damage but get bonuses against point defence - fragmentation warheads<BR>
that burst at ~1000 km into 10-kg fragments, for civilian use, and<BR>
detonation-lasers<BR>
for military use.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 02:38:18 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 19:20:06 CDT<BR>
>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
><BR>
>I'm new to Traveller and don't have much experience as the GM of any game.<BR>
I<BR>
>like the idea of merchant campaigns, but I'm worried that the gameplay will<BR>
>degenerate into "buy-jump-sell", with little or no roleplaying. If anyone<BR>
>could give me some pointers, I'd really appreciate it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'd suggest keeping the "merchant" stuff in the background mostly.<BR>
sure every once in a while a cargo is more (or less) than it's made<BR>
out to be (the same goes for passengers) thereby providing the<BR>
adventure but mostly being crew on a free trader is just a job. Most<BR>
of the exciting stuff hapens off the clock.<BR>
<BR>
Almost any type of adventure can befall our heros in the time between<BR>
unloading the hold and discharging passengers and the taking on of<BR>
new cargos and passengers for the next destination. Be creative.<BR>
Dare to have the crew mistaken for wanted criminals on Jhenghe.<BR>
Watch the pc's run for cover when they get caught in the opening<BR>
salvos of the civil war on Mongo (or perhaps more likely make a few<BR>
friends {and enemies} by choosing sides.) Perhaps some unknown<BR>
agency (governmental, megacorporate, foreign, or revolutionary)<BR>
takes an interest (for whatever reason) in the travels of the ship<BR>
and it's crew.<BR>
<BR>
If all else fails throw a pirate or two at them.<BR>
<BR>
Add in a hijack attempt if things seem really dull.<BR>
<BR>
And let the economics crud sort itself out with a few die rolls.<BR>
<BR>
HTH<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 01:07:07 -0700<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: fun with chemistry...<BR>
<BR>
Eric Freitas wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 21:44 9/20/00 -0800, you wrote:<BR>
> >Well, in 20-50 years it won't be "designer drugs" that are the problem.<BR>
> >It'll be "designer genes". Including viruses and bacteria.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Chemical modeling software will be *really* good. Even the<BR>
> >shareware/freeware stuff.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >And CAD/CAM machining setups will be common hobbyist gear.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course it will also be a felony to write a piece of software without<BR>
> a license.<BR>
<BR>
You mean IT"S not already?<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
When Spring comes back with rustling shade,<BR>
And apple blossoms fills the air,<BR>
I have a rendezvous with Death,<BR>
When spring brings back blue days and fair.<BR>
 Legionnaire Alan Seeger, KIA the Somme.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 23:44:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> 2*pi is *by definition* dimensionless.<BR>
><BR>
> Unless is has units attached. For example, I measure the length of my<BR>
> pencil, and it turns out to be exactly 2*pi inches long.<BR>
<BR>
Can't be. 2*pi is transcendental, and atoms have a finite (if inexact)<BR>
size. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 03:45:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Quizzes lead to punning and the harder stuff<BR>
<BR>
Actually, with a name like Oort McLeod, you'd expect he'd show up every<BR>
once in a while, get everyone to notice him, then quietly slip away<BR>
again.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:<BR>
> > Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:37:40 -0700<BR>
> > From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
> > <BR>
> > Ice see nothing wrong with what he said...he's clearly a man with a<BR>
> tail<BR>
> > to tell.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yeah, I'd definitely keep an ion him.<BR>
> <BR>
> > > Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > > Oort McLeod?  A man with his head in the clouds, no doubt.<BR>
> > > <BR>
> > > I would expect a pun like that from you.<BR>
> > > Tis truly a sad cometary on your sanity.<BR>
> <BR>
> You Kuiper puns away from my brother!  (Though Lord knows, by this<BR>
> time I<BR>
> should be beyond the point of Charon...)<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
>    |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
>  --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
>    |<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 05:27:23 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Plasma Cannon<BR>
<BR>
Over at the cartoon strip Schlock Mercenary, created by that talented artist<BR>
Howard Tayler (No relation, honest, he spells his last name funny) lives an<BR>
alien named Schlock, a member of Tagon's Toughs, aboard the Starship<BR>
Kitesfear. This alien habitually carries a hand weapon, a 'Plasma Cannon'<BR>
and uses it to extreme effect. Mr. Tayler has kindly given permission for me<BR>
to post this here.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Product Endorsement: Schlock is carrying a BH-209 Plasgun, dubbed "plasma<BR>
cannon" by the trade magazines of the burgeoning 31st century microfusion<BR>
industry.<BR>
<BR>
Quoting from the product flyer (Strohl Munitions) :<BR>
The BH-209's variable mag-bottle aperture allows for full control of beam<BR>
width, which can be dialed from a relatively narrow 1cm setting to a splashy<BR>
10:6 expanding cone (6-meter beam diameter at a range of 10 meters) useful<BR>
for crowd control.<BR>
<BR>
Powered by a Striggs & Bratton 2-stroke microfusion plant, the BH-209 need<BR>
never be recharged, provided it is allowed to "breathe" periodically. When<BR>
primed and flipped from "safe" to "decidedly unsafe," the BH-209 cycles<BR>
local atmospheric gases into the plant, producing a noticeable acoustic<BR>
effect. While this hum is stealth-defeating, many law-enforcement agents<BR>
have reported that it serves as an excellent deterrent."<BR>
<BR>
My purpose in this is: I would dearly like to have this pretty toy for my<BR>
PCs use in a game. Would any of you talented gearheads care to take a shot<BR>
at reverse engineering this piece and coming up with traveller specs?  I can<BR>
see a wieght problem but I have faith that someone among you can overcome<BR>
that. Mr. Tsykoduk, for instance, would Pinkerdoo be up to this challenge?<BR>
<BR>
For reference pictures, stroll on over to  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/<BR>
and have a look.  Funny stuff, so the trip won't be wasted.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance.<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:46:30 -0400<BR>
From: "Smith, Walter" <SmithW@hartwick.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Ahh a political/legal system I truly admired, One could kill a <BR>
> political figure, if you could prove you did it, because you disagreed<BR>
> with his/her statements/political stands. In New Texas political <BR>
> figures tend to be armed and very twitchy/paranoid to the extreme. <BR>
> If they did not, they had "terminal" disagreements with the voters.<G><BR>
<BR>
Hmmm...<BR>
<BR>
Does New Texas have the legal concept of Self Defense as justification<BR>
for homicide?<BR>
<BR>
A person intending to kill a New Texas politician would have to make<BR>
known to *someone* that they disagreed with the politician's politics.<BR>
I can see such a politician - if paranoid enough - starting to<BR>
take preemptive strikes against people who disagree with him/her.<BR>
<BR>
I have this image of a New Texas politician aiming a tac missile<BR>
launcher at the opposing party's convention hall... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Walt Smith<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:07:01 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> 2*pi is *by definition* dimensionless.<BR>
><BR>
> Unless is has units attached. For example, I measure the length of my<BR>
> pencil, and it turns out to be exactly 2*pi inches long.<BR>
<BR>
Can't be. 2*pi is transcendental, and atoms have a finite (if inexact)<BR>
size. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
*****************<BR>
<BR>
Do we know for sure that the size of an atom is finite, what if under closer<BR>
inspection the actual size of an atom was transendental. Not that I really<BR>
know enough about this to make this point, I was just wondering whethere or<BR>
not it was true.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:04:39 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
Michael Scanlon wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Do we know for sure that the size of an atom is finite, what if<BR>
> under closer<BR>
> inspection the actual size of an atom was transendental. Not that I really<BR>
> know enough about this to make this point, I was just wondering<BR>
> whethere or<BR>
> not it was true.<BR>
<BR>
Units are somewhat arbitrary, and there is no reason that you can't base<BR>
your units on something which happens to be non-algebraic. In the case of an<BR>
atom, the size is also somewhat arbitrary, since at the quantum level things<BR>
look a lot more like waves than particles. So although the wave functions of<BR>
the electrons in an atom have non-zero probabilities out to big distances,<BR>
we usually apply some arbitrary convention to say how big they are, maybe<BR>
the distance where their magnitude drops to 1/e of its maximum, or some<BR>
other agreed-upon value.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 08:52:18 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
> >> 2*pi is *by definition* dimensionless.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Unless is has units attached. For example, I measure the length of my<BR>
> > pencil, and it turns out to be exactly 2*pi inches long.<BR>
><BR>
> Can't be. 2*pi is transcendental, and atoms have a finite (if inexact)<BR>
> size. :-)<BR>
<BR>
You just use a ruler calibrated in increments of pi inches to measure<BR>
things.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:08:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: tml low message volume?<BR>
<BR>
The tml message volume seem pretty low these days.  Is this true.  I've jsut<BR>
moved to a new mail server and want to make sure I'm not missing messages.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks, Tod<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Tod Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
- --<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:20:08 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
Subject: RE: Terminal Velocity<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael Scanlon wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Do we know for sure that the size of an atom is finite, what if<BR>
> under closer<BR>
> inspection the actual size of an atom was transendental. Not that I really<BR>
> know enough about this to make this point, I was just wondering<BR>
> whethere or<BR>
> not it was true.<BR>
<BR>
Units are somewhat arbitrary, and there is no reason that you can't base<BR>
your units on something which happens to be non-algebraic. In the case of an<BR>
atom, the size is also somewhat arbitrary, since at the quantum level things<BR>
look a lot more like waves than particles. So although the wave functions of<BR>
the electrons in an atom have non-zero probabilities out to big distances,<BR>
we usually apply some arbitrary convention to say how big they are, maybe<BR>
the distance where their magnitude drops to 1/e of its maximum, or some<BR>
other agreed-upon value.<BR>
<BR>
**************<BR>
so from what I gather, the quantities you are suggesting are in fact of the<BR>
unreal quantity. Or if you like, of the non-finite variety, a bit like 2*pi<BR>
or root 2.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:39:47 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
<BR>
It's a 3D plugin for IE and Netscape. _ANOTHER_ 3D plugin for IE and<BR>
netscape :-/ <BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Pronto wrote:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> http://www.nationalgeographic.com/solarsystem/splash.html<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> This should be of interest to some of you.  You'll have to download a small<BR>
> >> module to run it, but its very much worth the time.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Try manuevering.....  I guess thats why pilots get the big money.   Hahaha<BR>
> <BR>
> > Don't bother if you're not running Windows...:-(<BR>
> <BR>
> Does it just require Windows, or does it also require a graphical<BR>
> browser (ie Netscapr or IE)?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:43:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 10:08 AM<BR>
<BR>
> The tml message volume seem pretty low these days.  Is this true.  I've<BR>
jsut<BR>
> moved to a new mail server and want to make sure I'm not missing messages.<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks, Tod<BR>
><BR>
Yeah, its been kinda slow. Where have all the Travellers gone?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:03:07<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
<BR>
At 10:08 AM 9/27/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>The tml message volume seem pretty low these days.  Is this true.  I've jsut<BR>
>moved to a new mail server and want to make sure I'm not missing messages.<BR>
<BR>
It seems to be down a bit.  We go in cycles, like most lists.  At least<BR>
there aren't any bloody flamewars going on.<BR>
<BR>
Or everybody is saving up to praise Ground Forces. :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3100<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3101</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/27/00 4:42:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest   Wednesday, September 27 2000   Volume 1999 : Number 3101<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Laws<BR>
Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
GT: Ground Forces (Re: tml low message volume?)<BR>
Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
Megacorp logos<BR>
Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
RE:Robot lawyers<BR>
Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
RE: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
Re: Laws<BR>
Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
Fleet Week<BR>
Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
The Speed of Light<BR>
Attention Gun Lovin' Gearheads<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:11:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Laws<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Ahh a political/legal system I truly admired, One could kill a <BR>
>> political figure, if you could prove you did it, because you disagreed<BR>
>> with his/her statements/political stands. In New Texas political <BR>
>> figures tend to be armed and very twitchy/paranoid to the extreme. <BR>
>> If they did not, they had "terminal" disagreements with the voters.<G><BR>
><BR>
> Hmmm...<BR>
><BR>
> Does New Texas have the legal concept of Self Defense as justification<BR>
> for homicide?<BR>
><BR>
> A person intending to kill a New Texas politician would have to make<BR>
> known to *someone* that they disagreed with the politician's politics.<BR>
> I can see such a politician - if paranoid enough - starting to<BR>
> take preemptive strikes against people who disagree with him/her.<BR>
<BR>
Actually Sam mis-stated the law. <BR>
<BR>
Killing a politician is actionable only to the extent that the manner<BR>
of his death exceeds what he had coming. You can't merely disagree with<BR>
his politics. You have to be able to convince a jury that he needed<BR>
killing. <BR>
<BR>
For example (from the book), a man took a machete to a politician on<BR>
the steps of the Capitol. He was acquitted after showing the the<BR>
politician had been working to pass a tax on personal income...<BR>
<BR>
> I have this image of a New Texas politician aiming a tac missile<BR>
> launcher at the opposing party's convention hall... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Only if he can convince a jury of ordinary citizens that the action was<BR>
justified.<BR>
<BR>
And I suspect (though it was never explicitly stated) that you may be<BR>
cited for anything from disturbing the peace on up to reckless<BR>
endangerment if you use "excessive force". <BR>
<BR>
So that missile is right out. Shooting him with a pistol is ok. A<BR>
machine gun might be a bit much, depends on whether or not there was a<BR>
chance of hitting anybody else.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:11:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Virtual Solar System @ nationalgeographic.com<BR>
<BR>
From: "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
<BR>
> It's a 3D plugin for IE and Netscape. _ANOTHER_ 3D plugin for IE and<BR>
> netscape :-/ <BR>
> <BR>
[Tongue firmly in cheek]<BR>
You say that like its a bad thing.... <BR>
[/Tongue firmly in cheek]<BR>
  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:28:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
<BR>
> At 10:08 AM 9/27/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >The tml message volume seem pretty low these days.  Is this true.  I've<BR>
jsut<BR>
> >moved to a new mail server and want to make sure I'm not missing<BR>
messages.<BR>
><BR>
> It seems to be down a bit.  We go in cycles, like most lists.  At least<BR>
> there aren't any bloody flamewars going on.<BR>
><BR>
> Or everybody is saving up to praise Ground Forces. :)<BR>
> --<BR>
<BR>
SJG is still not listing GF, even though they've got other titles for<BR>
October.  You not just shining us on, are you <grin>?  BTW, Did you get the<BR>
Gridlore graphic?  Any other files you like done?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:53:49 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> > > > 2*pi is *by definition* dimensionless.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Unless is has units attached. For example, I measure the<BR>
> > > length of my pencil, and it turns out to be exactly 2*pi<BR>
> > > inches long.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Can't be. 2*pi is transcendental, and atoms have a finite (if<BR>
> > inexact) size. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> You just use a ruler calibrated in increments of pi inches to<BR>
> measure things.<BR>
<BR>
Can a ruler *be* calibrated in increments of pi inches?  I'm  not<BR>
sure but when I was a lot younger I remember the average sized pi<BR>
being much larger  than  today.  A  full-meal-sized  meat  pi  of<BR>
yesteryear is bite-sized today.  From this  I  conclude  that  pi<BR>
decreases as the age of the universe increases!<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
(That's right, I'm on long nights again.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:07:10 -0500<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
Subject: GT: Ground Forces (Re: tml low message volume?)<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > At 10:08 AM 9/27/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> > >The tml message volume seem pretty low these days.  Is this true.  I've<BR>
> jsut<BR>
> > >moved to a new mail server and want to make sure I'm not missing<BR>
> messages.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > It seems to be down a bit.  We go in cycles, like most lists.  At least<BR>
> > there aren't any bloody flamewars going on.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Or everybody is saving up to praise Ground Forces. :)<BR>
> > --<BR>
><BR>
> SJG is still not listing GF, even though they've got other titles for<BR>
> October.  You not just shining us on, are you <grin>?<BR>
<BR>
I participated in the playtest and I liked what I saw (the biggest debates were<BR>
on how to conduct an obital assault and the feasability of airacraft at TL9+,<BR>
IIRC). I may have to make a special trip int Houston just to get a copy when it<BR>
comes out ;)<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:35:11 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> > > > 2*pi is *by definition* dimensionless.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Unless is has units attached. For example, I measure the<BR>
> > > length of my pencil, and it turns out to be exactly 2*pi<BR>
> > > inches long.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Can't be. 2*pi is transcendental, and atoms have a finite (if<BR>
> > inexact) size. :-)<BR>
><BR>
> You just use a ruler calibrated in increments of pi inches to<BR>
> measure things.<BR>
<BR>
Can a ruler *be* calibrated in increments of pi inches?  I'm  not<BR>
sure but when I was a lot younger I remember the average sized pi<BR>
being much larger  than  today.  A  full-meal-sized  meat  pi  of<BR>
yesteryear is bite-sized today.  From this  I  conclude  that  pi<BR>
decreases as the age of the universe increases!<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
(That's right, I'm on long nights again.)<BR>
<BR>
**********<BR>
<BR>
Well as a good friend once told me, " I don't mind them being smaller, as<BR>
long as I can have more of them."<BR>
Also, it is said, the best things allways come in small packages.<BR>
<BR>
Cornish pasties are my favourite, with extra black pepper. hmmmm freshly<BR>
baked.<BR>
<BR>
I wodner what would be the constuents of an olde traditional Traveller's<BR>
pie?<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:45:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
Pi r^2?<BR>
<BR>
No Pi are round<BR>
<BR>
cornbread r^2<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 11:53 AM<BR>
Subject: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> > > > > 2*pi is *by definition* dimensionless.<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > Unless is has units attached. For example, I measure the<BR>
> > > > length of my pencil, and it turns out to be exactly 2*pi<BR>
> > > > inches long.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Can't be. 2*pi is transcendental, and atoms have a finite (if<BR>
> > > inexact) size. :-)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You just use a ruler calibrated in increments of pi inches to<BR>
> > measure things.<BR>
> <BR>
> Can a ruler *be* calibrated in increments of pi inches?  I'm  not<BR>
> sure but when I was a lot younger I remember the average sized pi<BR>
> being much larger  than  today.  A  full-meal-sized  meat  pi  of<BR>
> yesteryear is bite-sized today.  From this  I  conclude  that  pi<BR>
> decreases as the age of the universe increases!<BR>
> <BR>
> Regards PLST<BR>
> (That's right, I'm on long nights again.)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:49:05 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Megacorp logos<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know if there exists color graphics of the megacorp logos?  I'd<BR>
like to add the megacorp logos to my traveller graphics web page<BR>
(http://www.travellercentral.com), and if not, get a color scheme to create<BR>
color logos based on the pics in the various Traveller resources.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks, Tod<BR>
- --<BR>
Tod Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
- --<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:47:41 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
<BR>
> Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
> > > > > 2*pi is *by definition* dimensionless.<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > Unless is has units attached. For example, I measure the<BR>
> > > > length of my pencil, and it turns out to be exactly 2*pi<BR>
> > > > inches long.<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Can't be. 2*pi is transcendental, and atoms have a finite (if<BR>
> > > inexact) size. :-)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You just use a ruler calibrated in increments of pi inches to<BR>
> > measure things.<BR>
> <BR>
> Can a ruler *be* calibrated in increments of pi inches?  I'm  not<BR>
> sure but when I was a lot younger I remember the average sized pi<BR>
> being much larger  than  today.  A  full-meal-sized  meat  pi  of<BR>
> yesteryear is bite-sized today.  From this  I  conclude  that  pi<BR>
> decreases as the age of the universe increases!<BR>
> <BR>
I'm sorry. You have confusion about the right pi. You meant to use<BR>
'py' for the variable constant, as in *py*rate and *py*racy...<BR>
<BR>
<knock><BR>
Who's that? What? No. <thump> <thud> <BR>
@#$%<BR>
NO CARRIER<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:20:31 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 27 Sep 2000, Michael Houghton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm sorry. You have confusion about the right pi. You meant to use<BR>
> 'py' for the variable constant, as in *py*rate and *py*racy...<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
getcher fingers outta my py!<BR>
<BR>
lol<BR>
kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 13:27:04 -0700<BR>
From: "A. O'Mary" <omary@my-deja.com><BR>
Subject: RE:Robot lawyers<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 20:32:00 +0100<BR>
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: laws (Now with Ob.Trav!)<BR>
><BR>
>bloo wrote:<BR>
>> off to design my Robot Lawyer<BR>
><BR>
>Its been done.  Check out "101 Robots" #76 -  Legal  Eagle  Robot<BR>
>(aka the "Makhidkarun X1DF-A attorney").  Basically its a crudely<BR>
>humanoid robot ... costing Cr411,500 ... Admin-4  Interrogation-2<BR>
>Bribery-1 Emotion Simulation ...<BR>
><BR>
>Regards PLST<BR>
\<BR>
<BR>
Or check out the current plot line in the online comic 'Nukees'. Lawbot v0.92<BR>
http://www.nukees.com/d/20000913.html<BR>
<BR>
ALO<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==--<BR>
Before you buy.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:47:01 -0400<BR>
From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
<BR>
MegaTraveller Journal has B&W graphics of 13 logos, but nothing in color,<BR>
nor anything describing what color they should be.<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> Does anyone know if there exists color graphics of the megacorp logos?<BR>
I'd<BR>
> like to add the megacorp logos to my traveller graphics web page<BR>
> (http://www.travellercentral.com), and if not, get a color scheme to<BR>
create<BR>
> color logos based on the pics in the various Traveller resources.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:48:55 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
Michael Scanlon wrote:<BR>
> Cornish pasties are my favourite, with extra black pepper.<BR>
> hmmmm freshly baked.<BR>
<BR>
Much better than the package stuff you get.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I wodner what would be the constuents of an olde traditional<BR>
> Traveller's pie?<BR>
<BR>
Now  that  raises  an  interesting  question:  We  have  cultural<BR>
profiles for planetary societies (thanks  to  WBH/WTH).  I  think<BR>
there could be a fairly homogeneous Traveller  (ie  "interstellar<BR>
backpacker")  culture.   What  is  its  profile?   What  are  its<BR>
characteristics?<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:15:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
<BR>
The megacorp logos also appear (in B&W) in GT:Rim of Fire, amongst others.<BR>
I must say that any marketing department would be horrified.  Most of the<BR>
Megacrp logos, to put it mildly, suck (JMHO).<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know if there are at least any canonical references to corporate<BR>
colors?  I'll try putting together some colored variations of the logos for<BR>
the TML to review.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 1:47 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> MegaTraveller Journal has B&W graphics of 13 logos, but nothing in color,<BR>
> nor anything describing what color they should be.<BR>
><BR>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
> Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
> www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
><BR>
> ----- Original Message -----<BR>
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> > Does anyone know if there exists color graphics of the megacorp logos?<BR>
> I'd<BR>
> > like to add the megacorp logos to my traveller graphics web page<BR>
> > (http://www.travellercentral.com), and if not, get a color scheme to<BR>
> create<BR>
> > color logos based on the pics in the various Traveller resources.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:24:16 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
Greetings all.<BR>
<BR>
After a long hiatus, I will be plunging back into work on the "Mercenaries<BR>
Guide to Weapons" (http://www.travellerguns.com).<BR>
<BR>
My question for the list is:<BR>
<BR>
What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.  Are there any<BR>
conversion guides for moving designs to GT?<BR>
<BR>
I've been playing with G3G and FFS2 and have developed a hybrid system that<BR>
seems pretty accurate in reproducing RL weapons accross a broad range (FFS2<BR>
doesn't handle extremes very well).  What data is useful?<BR>
<BR>
Right now I generate muzzle energy, cartridge dimensions, weapon length and<BR>
mass and a variety of other data of interest only to gun hyper-gearheads.<BR>
<BR>
Being a CT ref, I'm not really familiar with MT, T4 or CT weapons design.  I<BR>
know that T4 uses energy to determine damage.  What data is useful for<BR>
conversion of a given weapon into your favorite Traveller version?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Tod Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
- --<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:05:05 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Laws<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Smith, Walter" <BR>
> A person intending to kill a New Texas politician would have to make<BR>
> known to *someone* that they disagreed with the politician's politics.<BR>
> I can see such a politician - if paranoid enough - starting to<BR>
> take preemptive strikes against people who disagree with him/her.<BR>
> <BR>
> I have this image of a New Texas politician aiming a tac missile<BR>
> launcher at the opposing party's convention hall... :-)<BR>
<BR>
I have this image of New Texas politicians being the commanders of<BR>
militias/death squads.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:02:26<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
<BR>
At 11:28 AM 9/27/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>SJG is still not listing GF, even though they've got other titles for<BR>
>October.  You not just shining us on, are you <grin>?  BTW, Did you get the<BR>
>Gridlore graphic?  Any other files you like done?<BR>
<BR>
I'm just a humble author, all I know is what the web page tells me.  I was<BR>
last told October, but that was subject to change.  Perhaps Loren could<BR>
fill us in.<BR>
<BR>
I did get the graphic, and thanks!  Right now, I'm trying to keep my pages<BR>
graphics-lite, since I share our allotment of space with Kirsten.  Also, I<BR>
prefer clean looking pages.<BR>
<BR>
If anything comes up, I'll let you know.  You will get proper credit on the<BR>
page.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry   Templar Agent at Large.<BR>
gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>
<BR>
TravGeekCode: <BR>
tc+ tm+ !tn- t4@ ?tg+ tt@ to(CORPS)++ ru@ $ge++ 3i<BR>
ii+ au st+ ls+ pi kk+ so(++) va++ dr+ zh+ sw++ ?da<BR>
         <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:06:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Fleet Week<BR>
<BR>
Once the Chronicle prints the full schedule of events and which ships will<BR>
be open to tours, I'll post them to the list (and send you a copy, David).<BR>
<BR>
We'll figure out what we're doing at that point.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:26:59 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
Peter Trevor wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Can a ruler *be* calibrated in increments of pi inches?  I'm  not<BR>
> sure but when I was a lot younger I remember the average sized pi<BR>
> being much larger  than  today.  A  full-meal-sized  meat  pi  of<BR>
> yesteryear is bite-sized today.  From this  I  conclude  that  pi<BR>
> decreases as the age of the universe increases!<BR>
<BR>
I would suggest that all of those pi have caused *you* to increase rather<BR>
than the pi themselves decreasing. I think that pi are known to do this.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:26:37 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 7:24 AM<BR>
<BR>
> My question for the list is:<BR>
> <BR>
> What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.  <BR>
<BR>
Personal Preference for MT and TNE (the two systems I use). I think we<BR>
can assume that everyone else would like to see the other flavours of<BR>
Trav represented as well (CT, Striker, T4, GT). Now that would be<BR>
cool... each weapon represented under each game system.... (yeah, yeah..<BR>
I know... I'm good at making lots of work for other people.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I've been playing with G3G and FFS2 and have developed a <BR>
> hybrid system that<BR>
> seems pretty accurate in reproducing RL weapons accross a <BR>
> broad range (FFS2<BR>
> doesn't handle extremes very well).  What data is useful?<BR>
<BR>
> Right now I generate muzzle energy, cartridge dimensions, <BR>
> weapon length and<BR>
> mass and a variety of other data of interest only to gun <BR>
> hyper-gearheads.<BR>
<BR>
Not a much of a gearhead myself, and neither are my players, so they are<BR>
really only interested in things like weapon size, cost and weight,<BR>
round size, cost and weight, action, magazine, ROF, damage, range info,<BR>
recoil info.<BR>
  <BR>
<BR>
> Being a CT ref, I'm not really familiar with MT, T4 or CT <BR>
> weapons design.  I<BR>
> know that T4 uses energy to determine damage.  What data is useful for<BR>
> conversion of a given weapon into your favorite Traveller version?<BR>
<BR>
The only weapon design system I know of for MT is G3G. I have a copy of<BR>
that, as well as the excel spreadsheet that goes with it, and seem to<BR>
remeber that it has conversion information for MT, TNE, T4 and Gurps. <BR>
<BR>
By the way Tod... love the website! Keep up the fantastic work.<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:45:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
<BR>
> I did get the graphic, and thanks!  Right now, I'm trying to keep my pages<BR>
> graphics-lite, since I share our allotment of space with Kirsten.  Also, I<BR>
> prefer clean looking pages.<BR>
<BR>
Good for you!<BR>
><BR>
> If anything comes up, I'll let you know.  You will get proper credit on<BR>
the<BR>
> page.<BR>
<BR>
To be honest, for stuff like this, I don't care about credit.  Just trying<BR>
to help the Traveller community.  Beside, those kinds of projects take 5<BR>
minutes.  I get my payback by being able to pick all you Traveller brains.<BR>
I intrigued by GT, but am a CT gamer these past 20 years (and my players<BR>
resist any attempt to change systems).  Still, I have a wealth of traveller<BR>
material that i'd like to make available in formats useable to other players<BR>
who are using different systems.<BR>
<BR>
I've (my wife, actually) managed to collect a goodly portion of every<BR>
Traveller version published since 1977 (Ebay, I curse you!), but it helps to<BR>
run things past folks who've actually used the systems in questions.<BR>
<BR>
I understand we'll have a few of the SF crowd up for the MG shoot in<BR>
December, so I look forward to meeting you all then.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:11:47 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
In 1675, Olaus Roemer measured the speed of light to be approximately <BR>
186,806 miles per second. In 1976, it was determined to be about 185, 861.32 <BR>
miles per second.<BR>
<BR>
Traditional science holds the 1675 calculation to be incorrect. However, <BR>
Barry Setterfield, an Australian scientist, has proposed that the speed of <BR>
light has actually been decreasing. This hypothesis would fit the Second Law <BR>
of Thermodynamics perfectly.<BR>
<BR>
Another aspect of this is that it would, IMO, invalidate the Theory of <BR>
Relativity, allowing speeds above the speed of light without any space-time <BR>
continuum paradoxes. This (again, IMO) is more canon, as STL interstellar <BR>
colonization would be easier. Also, it would further limit the effect of <BR>
radios.<BR>
<BR>
Assuming that this theory is true, and that the rate of degredation (about <BR>
0.5% every 300 years) is constant, the following would be the (very) <BR>
approximate speeds of light at published eras of the Third Imperium:<BR>
<BR>
T4: 177,796 miles/second<BR>
CT/GT/MT/TNE: 174,258 miles/second<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:14:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Attention Gun Lovin' Gearheads<BR>
<BR>
As part of the planned updates to the "Mercenaries Guide to Weapons" website<BR>
(http://www.travellerguns.com), I have created a new mailing list<BR>
guntech@travellercentral.com, devoted to weapons for RPGs.  I have a couple<BR>
of RL gun experts as list members for anyone who is interested in the<BR>
nitty-gritty of weapons designs, as well as how to adapt your pet design<BR>
into your favorite game.  I'm putting myself and my not-insignificant<BR>
weapons library at your disposal and hope all the other hoplophiles on the<BR>
TML and elsewhere will join us.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- --<BR>
Tod Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
- --<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:25:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
> In 1675, Olaus Roemer measured the speed of light to be approximately<BR>
> 186,806 miles per second. In 1976, it was determined to be about 185,<BR>
861.32<BR>
> miles per second.<BR>
<BR>
[snip]<BR>
><BR>
> T4: 177,796 miles/second<BR>
> CT/GT/MT/TNE: 174,258 miles/second<BR>
><BR>
> -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That's right, whippersnapper!  In the old day, light was FAST.  None of this<BR>
sissified, domesticated, citified stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3101<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3102</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 28 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3102<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
Looking for forms....<BR>
Re: Attention Gun Lovin' Gearheads<BR>
Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
RE: Plasma Cannon<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: Plasma Cannon<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:10:00 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
Check out http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c-decay.html for a counter<BR>
arguement to to Mr Setterfields proposal. <BR>
<BR>
Changing the speed of light would not change much in Traveller. We would<BR>
still have jump drives. The speed of light would still be an upper limit<BR>
to how fast a ship could travel, and there would still be paradoxes<BR>
above this lower speed. Slowing the speed of light does not invalidate<BR>
relativity, because relitvity is about measuring the speed of one object<BR>
from the point of view of another. <BR>
<BR>
Of course, I cant help but wonder what will happen in this theoretical<BR>
universe when the speed of light gets down to 1 metre per second, or<BR>
even Zero.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: James Jensen [mailto:cheeb0@hotmail.com]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 9:12 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@ient.com<BR>
> Subject: The Speed of Light<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In 1675, Olaus Roemer measured the speed of light to be approximately <BR>
> 186,806 miles per second. In 1976, it was determined to be <BR>
> about 185, 861.32 <BR>
> miles per second.<BR>
> <BR>
> Traditional science holds the 1675 calculation to be <BR>
> incorrect. However, <BR>
> Barry Setterfield, an Australian scientist, has proposed that <BR>
> the speed of <BR>
> light has actually been decreasing. This hypothesis would fit <BR>
> the Second Law <BR>
> of Thermodynamics perfectly.<BR>
> <BR>
> Another aspect of this is that it would, IMO, invalidate the <BR>
> Theory of <BR>
> Relativity, allowing speeds above the speed of light without <BR>
> any space-time <BR>
> continuum paradoxes. This (again, IMO) is more canon, as STL <BR>
> interstellar <BR>
> colonization would be easier. Also, it would further limit <BR>
> the effect of <BR>
> radios.<BR>
> <BR>
> Assuming that this theory is true, and that the rate of <BR>
> degredation (about <BR>
> 0.5% every 300 years) is constant, the following would be the (very) <BR>
> approximate speeds of light at published eras of the Third Imperium:<BR>
> <BR>
> T4: 177,796 miles/second<BR>
> CT/GT/MT/TNE: 174,258 miles/second<BR>
> <BR>
> -J. Jensen<BR>
> ______________________________________________________________<BR>
> ___________<BR>
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <BR>
http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:34:26 -0700<BR>
From: "Erik Shumaker" <attendolo@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Looking for forms....<BR>
<BR>
I am looking for pseudo-official looking forms for the campaign that I am<BR>
running. Does anyone know of any traveller forms that I can use as a<BR>
watermark on some "Official" documents from the Imperium to the players?<BR>
<BR>
TIA<BR>
Erik<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:49:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Attention Gun Lovin' Gearheads<BR>
<BR>
To subscribe to the guntech list<BR>
<BR>
send email to majordomo@travellercentral.com<BR>
<BR>
include 'subscribe guntech' (no quotes) in the body of the message.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
To: "TML" <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 4:14 PM<BR>
Subject: Attention Gun Lovin' Gearheads<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> As part of the planned updates to the "Mercenaries Guide to Weapons"<BR>
website<BR>
> (http://www.travellerguns.com), I have created a new mailing list<BR>
> guntech@travellercentral.com, devoted to weapons for RPGs.  I have a<BR>
couple<BR>
> of RL gun experts as list members for anyone who is interested in the<BR>
> nitty-gritty of weapons designs, as well as how to adapt your pet design<BR>
> into your favorite game.  I'm putting myself and my not-insignificant<BR>
> weapons library at your disposal and hope all the other hoplophiles on the<BR>
> TML and elsewhere will join us.<BR>
><BR>
> Tod<BR>
> --<BR>
> Tod Glenn<BR>
> webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
> --<BR>
> http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
> http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
> http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
> http://www.solsec.org<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:55:13 +1200<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
On 27 Sep 2000, at 14:24, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Greetings all.<BR>
> <BR>
> After a long hiatus, I will be plunging back into work on the "Mercenaries<BR>
> Guide to Weapons" (http://www.travellerguns.com).<BR>
> <BR>
> My question for the list is:<BR>
> <BR>
> What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.  Are there any<BR>
> conversion guides for moving designs to GT?<BR>
> <BR>
> I've been playing with G3G and FFS2 and have developed a hybrid system that<BR>
> seems pretty accurate in reproducing RL weapons accross a broad range (FFS2<BR>
> doesn't handle extremes very well).  What data is useful?<BR>
> <BR>
> Right now I generate muzzle energy, cartridge dimensions, weapon length and mass<BR>
> and a variety of other data of interest only to gun hyper-gearheads.<BR>
> <BR>
> Being a CT ref, I'm not really familiar with MT, T4 or CT weapons design.  I<BR>
> know that T4 uses energy to determine damage.  What data is useful for<BR>
> conversion of a given weapon into your favorite Traveller version?<BR>
<BR>
As I'm a TNE fan (though I also like MT) all I need is mass, length, price, Me <BR>
and some way of working out range. Using FFS1's method doesn't strike me a very <BR>
good idea, as it gets strange in places.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:19:18 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 9:26:am<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]<BR>
> > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 7:24 AM<BR>
><BR>
> > My question for the list is:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I'm a CT man meself...<BR>
<BR>
> > Right now I generate muzzle energy, cartridge dimensions,<BR>
> > weapon length and<BR>
> > mass and a variety of other data of interest only to gun<BR>
> > hyper-gearheads.<BR>
><BR>
> Not a much of a gearhead myself, and neither are my players, so they are<BR>
> really only interested in things like weapon size, cost and weight,<BR>
> round size, cost and weight, action, magazine, ROF, damage, range info,<BR>
> recoil info.<BR>
<BR>
Likewise, I'm not interested in how an internal combustion engine works,<BR>
just as long as it moves my car to where I want to go, same with game stats<BR>
for CT weapons - provided they aren't out-right silly like a 9mm handgunt<BR>
that takes out AHL's in three shots-kinf-of-thing...<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Being a CT ref, I'm not really familiar with MT, T4 or CT<BR>
> > weapons design.  I<BR>
> > know that T4 uses energy to determine damage.  What data is useful for<BR>
> > conversion of a given weapon into your favorite Traveller version?<BR>
<BR>
I also agree that having each weapon in each version would be nice for<BR>
everyone, I know it's not that realistic for one person without help when<BR>
they don't know the other systems.  I therefor vote (for the most selfish of<BR>
reasons) on CT as that is what you apparently know best - stick with what<BR>
you know ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
PS: Depending upon space, perhaps if you did it CT, you could accept<BR>
versions for what you have posted, from other versions by other people that<BR>
play those systems??<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:51:17 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
Any good particle physicist can tell you that the speed of light is "1".<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > In 1675, Olaus Roemer measured the speed of light to be approximately<BR>
> > 186,806 miles per second. In 1976, it was determined to be about 185,<BR>
> 861.32<BR>
> > miles per second.<BR>
> <BR>
> [snip]<BR>
> ><BR>
> > T4: 177,796 miles/second<BR>
> > CT/GT/MT/TNE: 174,258 miles/second<BR>
> ><BR>
> > -J. Jensen<BR>
> <BR>
> That's right, whippersnapper!  In the old day, light was FAST.  None of this<BR>
> sissified, domesticated, citified stuff.<BR>
> <BR>
> Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 18:48:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
>In 1675, Olaus Roemer measured the speed of light to be approximately<BR>
>186,806 miles per second. In 1976, it was determined to be about 185, 861.32<BR>
>miles per second.<BR>
>Traditional science holds the 1675 calculation to be incorrect. However,<BR>
>Barry Setterfield, an Australian scientist, has proposed that the speed of<BR>
>light has actually been decreasing. This hypothesis would fit the Second Law<BR>
>of Thermodynamics perfectly.<BR>
Note that there's about a zillion pieces of evidence that the speed of light in<BR>
distant astronomical objects - by definition, seen long into the past - is the<BR>
same<BR>
as it is now to many significant figures.<BR>
<BR>
>Assuming that this theory is true, and that the rate of degredation (about<BR>
>0.5% every 300 years) is constant, the following would be the (very)<BR>
>approximate speeds of light at published eras of the Third Imperium:<BR>
<BR>
Also, I belive for the past 20-30 years we've known the speed of light<BR>
to much better than a tenth of a percent, and hence would have noticed<BR>
a change...<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:57:46 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Tod asked:<BR>
>Does anyone know if there exists color graphics of the megacorp logos?<BR>
<BR>
Never seen any of them in colour. I thought that perhaps they kept them in b&w<BR>
for the same reason that the Sunburst is in b&w.<BR>
<BR>
The meta-game reason, of course, is that it was expensive to print in colour<BR>
back when the logos were created (still is!). Much easier to just print b&w,<BR>
thus the pics in the lib data Supps 8 & 12 and in "Supp 13: Forms and Charts",<BR>
etc.<BR>
<BR>
Most of the logos I've seen are in b&w, apart from the Scout service patches<BR>
(look at the Yiklerzdanz site, for example) and one version of the Ref Coalition<BR>
logo (that is floating around somewhere).<BR>
<BR>
If you want colour, you may need to pick the schemes yourself.<BR>
<BR>
One site that carries all sorts of logos, including the corps, is (use this<BR>
link, as my Departure Point link is out-of-date):<BR>
     http://members.nbci.com/AncientSite/<BR>
<BR>
(It would probably be nice to ask Lars Adler for permission to use them, and<BR>
then give him credit somewhere.)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:06:15 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
I'll admit it: I was wrong. I posted a message before fully researching the <BR>
topic.<BR>
<BR>
However, I like this "branch" of the theory and plan to incorporate it in my <BR>
Traveller campaigns.<BR>
<BR>
A few notes about this method:<BR>
1. The Jump Drive will work just as it always does.<BR>
2. The distance of a parsec is the same.<BR>
3. The distance of a light-second (as described in Book 2) is the same.<BR>
<BR>
Why this would invalidate relativity:<BR>
The theory of relativity was based on the concept that the speed of light in <BR>
a vacuum is constant. Since this theory requires that the speed of light is <BR>
not constant, relativity becomes meaningless.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:09:17 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Plasma Cannon<BR>
<BR>
Just posted to the Pinkerdoo Site (http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo):<BR>
<BR>
The Pinkerdoo Plasma Mega Blaster!<BR>
<BR>
Be the first on your block to own a hand held Plasma Gun! yes, you too can<BR>
annoy your friends by blasting large holes in their property!<BR>
<BR>
(Please note: Due to some restrictions on technology and portable fusion<BR>
power plants, this version does not incorporate a fusion reactor. Nor does<BR>
it incorporate a variable width beam at this time.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Pronto<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 5:27 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Plasma Cannon<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Over at the cartoon strip Schlock Mercenary, created by that talented artist<BR>
Howard Tayler (No relation, honest, he spells his last name funny) lives an<BR>
alien named Schlock, a member of Tagon's Toughs, aboard the Starship<BR>
Kitesfear. This alien habitually carries a hand weapon, a 'Plasma Cannon'<BR>
and uses it to extreme effect. Mr. Tayler has kindly given permission for me<BR>
to post this here.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Product Endorsement: Schlock is carrying a BH-209 Plasgun, dubbed "plasma<BR>
cannon" by the trade magazines of the burgeoning 31st century microfusion<BR>
industry.<BR>
<BR>
Quoting from the product flyer (Strohl Munitions) :<BR>
The BH-209's variable mag-bottle aperture allows for full control of beam<BR>
width, which can be dialed from a relatively narrow 1cm setting to a splashy<BR>
10:6 expanding cone (6-meter beam diameter at a range of 10 meters) useful<BR>
for crowd control.<BR>
<BR>
Powered by a Striggs & Bratton 2-stroke microfusion plant, the BH-209 need<BR>
never be recharged, provided it is allowed to "breathe" periodically. When<BR>
primed and flipped from "safe" to "decidedly unsafe," the BH-209 cycles<BR>
local atmospheric gases into the plant, producing a noticeable acoustic<BR>
effect. While this hum is stealth-defeating, many law-enforcement agents<BR>
have reported that it serves as an excellent deterrent."<BR>
<BR>
My purpose in this is: I would dearly like to have this pretty toy for my<BR>
PCs use in a game. Would any of you talented gearheads care to take a shot<BR>
at reverse engineering this piece and coming up with traveller specs?  I can<BR>
see a wieght problem but I have faith that someone among you can overcome<BR>
that. Mr. Tsykoduk, for instance, would Pinkerdoo be up to this challenge?<BR>
<BR>
For reference pictures, stroll on over to  http://www.schlockmercenary.com/<BR>
and have a look.  Funny stuff, so the trip won't be wasted.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance.<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:11:52 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Tod asked:<BR>
> What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.<BR>
<BR>
My vote is for MT, since that is my system-of-choice.<BR>
<BR>
What I would love is the T4 weapons in MT, balanced against what already exists<BR>
there. Why not have a TL 15 gauss rifle? Selectable everything...<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:11:57 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Tod Glenn [mailto:webmaster@travellercentral.com]<BR>
> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 9:25 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > In 1675, Olaus Roemer measured the speed of light to be <BR>
> approximately<BR>
> > 186,806 miles per second. In 1976, it was determined to be <BR>
> about 185,<BR>
> 861.32<BR>
> > miles per second.<BR>
> <BR>
> [snip]<BR>
> ><BR>
> > T4: 177,796 miles/second<BR>
> > CT/GT/MT/TNE: 174,258 miles/second<BR>
> ><BR>
> > -J. Jensen<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> That's right, whippersnapper!  In the old day, light was <BR>
> FAST.  None of this<BR>
> sissified, domesticated, citified stuff.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, and the boiling point of water was twice the temperature required<BR>
to melt steel. <BR>
The charge on an electron was 20,000 volts, Heisenberg wasn't senile and<BR>
was bloody dead on about everything, which meant we had to use our slide<BR>
rules to keep track of every bloody electron to avoid magnetic shocks<BR>
(thats right youngster, there was no 'electro' in electromagentic back<BR>
then). Boltzman and stephan only constant was the way they fought over<BR>
girls, and Avagadro's number was 10, cos that's all he could count to.<BR>
<BR>
You youngsters have it easy, I tell you!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 19:21:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
To: <traveller@ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 7:06 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I'll admit it: I was wrong. I posted a message before fully researching<BR>
the<BR>
> topic.<BR>
><BR>
> However, I like this "branch" of the theory and plan to incorporate it in<BR>
my<BR>
> Traveller campaigns.<BR>
><BR>
> A few notes about this method:<BR>
> 1. The Jump Drive will work just as it always does.<BR>
> 2. The distance of a parsec is the same.<BR>
> 3. The distance of a light-second (as described in Book 2) is the same.<BR>
><BR>
> Why this would invalidate relativity:<BR>
> The theory of relativity was based on the concept that the speed of light<BR>
in<BR>
> a vacuum is constant. Since this theory requires that the speed of light<BR>
is<BR>
> not constant, relativity becomes meaningless.<BR>
><BR>
> -J. Jensen<BR>
> _________________________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
Isn't it constant in any frame of reference? Observed light would still<BR>
travel at a specific speed in any observed frame, even if the actual speed<BR>
it was going had decreased over a period of time. Or am I completely wrong?<BR>
<BR>
Jeffrey Yin<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:34:37 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
 > I'll admit it: I was wrong. I posted a message before fully researching<BR>
the<BR>
 > topic.<BR>
 >(...)<BR>
 > Why this would invalidate relativity:<BR>
 > The theory of relativity was based on the concept that the speed of light<BR>
in<BR>
 > a vacuum is constant. Since this theory requires that the speed of light<BR>
is<BR>
 > not constant, relativity becomes meaningless.<BR>
 ><BR>
 > -J. Jensen<BR>
 > _________________________________________________________________________<BR>
<BR>
>Isn't it constant in any frame of reference? Observed light would still<BR>
>travel at a specific speed in any observed frame, even if the actual >speed<BR>
>it was going had decreased over a period of time. Or am I completely <BR>
> >wrong?<BR>
<BR>
>Jeffrey Yin<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Seems reasonable...<BR>
But then relativity has never made much sense to me!<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:13:45 -0500<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
>> Bye, Bye Baby!!<BR>
>><BR>
>Thanks.<BR>
><BR>
>BTW, Hockey starts in October! WOO HOO!<BR>
><BR>
>*grabs toque, cheddar cheese, back bacon and beer*<BR>
<BR>
I went to see my first hockey game the other day.  Great fun.<BR>
but what are the rules??  and why did you not get me interested in it<BR>
earlier?<BR>
<BR>
Charles H<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:12:55 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
I am prepping the new layout for the www.travellerguns.com website.  I need<BR>
to know the following.<BR>
<BR>
Do CT, MT, TNE, T4 and GT all use different formats?<BR>
<BR>
If so, what data is typically required for each format?<BR>
<BR>
I know CT already..<BR>
<BR>
I will be providing the photo (if any), description, physical stats, mag<BR>
capacity, cartridge data, muzzle velocity and energy and notes on features.<BR>
Below this, I'll list data for each Traveller format.<BR>
<BR>
Suggestions?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:54:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In 1675, Olaus Roemer measured the speed of light to be approximately <BR>
> 186,806 miles per second. In 1976, it was determined to be about 185, 861.32 <BR>
> miles per second.<BR>
<BR>
*Both* the above figures are incorrect. Which tells you something about<BR>
the source.<BR>
<BR>
> Traditional science holds the 1675 calculation to be incorrect. However, <BR>
> Barry Setterfield, an Australian scientist, has proposed that the speed of <BR>
> light has actually been decreasing. This hypothesis would fit the Second Law <BR>
> of Thermodynamics perfectly.<BR>
<BR>
No it wouldn't. The speed of light has nothing to do with entropy.<BR>
<BR>
> Another aspect of this is that it would, IMO, invalidate the Theory of <BR>
> Relativity, allowing speeds above the speed of light without any space-time <BR>
> continuum paradoxes. This (again, IMO) is more canon, as STL interstellar <BR>
> colonization would be easier. Also, it would further limit the effect of <BR>
> radios.<BR>
<BR>
> Assuming that this theory is true, and that the rate of degredation (about <BR>
> 0.5% every 300 years) is constant, the following would be the (very) <BR>
> approximate speeds of light at published eras of the Third Imperium:<BR>
><BR>
> T4: 177,796 miles/second<BR>
> CT/GT/MT/TNE: 174,258 miles/second<BR>
<BR>
And 15 billion years ago, it's a number my calculator can't handle.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but this is completely bogus on several levels.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:15:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Pronto" <Pronto_r031@telus.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Plasma Cannon<BR>
<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
<BR>
> Just posted to the Pinkerdoo Site (http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo):<BR>
><BR>
> The Pinkerdoo Plasma Mega Blaster!<BR>
><BR>
> Be the first on your block to own a hand held Plasma Gun! yes, you too can<BR>
> annoy your friends by blasting large holes in their property!<BR>
><BR>
> (Please note: Due to some restrictions on technology and portable fusion<BR>
> power plants, this version does not incorporate a fusion reactor. Nor does<BR>
> it incorporate a variable width beam at this time.)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Oh, perfect, just perfect. Thank you, sir!<BR>
If its ok with you I will be posting your design on the Schlock Mercenary<BR>
discusion board. I will, of course give you full credit, appreciation and a<BR>
link to your site.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know if Mr. Tayler will be interested in using your design specs,<BR>
but if so, one of us will contact you first.<BR>
And I will be using this in a game soon, I'll let you know how it works.<BR>
(Evil chuckle)<BR>
<BR>
Again, thanks, this is great.<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 20:59:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I'll admit it: I was wrong. I posted a message before fully researching the <BR>
> topic.<BR>
><BR>
> However, I like this "branch" of the theory and plan to incorporate it in my <BR>
> Traveller campaigns.<BR>
><BR>
> A few notes about this method:<BR>
> 1. The Jump Drive will work just as it always does.<BR>
> 2. The distance of a parsec is the same.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but the length of a parsec has no relation whatsoever to the<BR>
speed of light. It's based on the AU, which is based on the size of<BR>
Earth's orbit.<BR>
<BR>
A parsec is the distance at which the position of a star against the<BR>
more distant stars shifts by one second of arc (a parallax of 1 second)<BR>
when viewed from opposite sides of Earth's orbit. <BR>
<BR>
Essentially: 1 parsec = tan(8959'59") AU. <BR>
That's roughly 206,264.7897 AU.<BR>
<BR>
> 3. The distance of a light-second (as described in Book 2) is the same.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. If the speed of light changes, so does the length of the<BR>
light-second, since that's the distance that light travels in one<BR>
second.<BR>
<BR>
> Why this would invalidate relativity:<BR>
> The theory of relativity was based on the concept that the speed of light in <BR>
> a vacuum is constant. Since this theory requires that the speed of light is <BR>
> not constant, relativity becomes meaningless.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. It requires that the speed of light in a vacuum be the same<BR>
regardless of the relative motion of the people making the<BR>
observations. <BR>
<BR>
Also, note that E=MC^2 is derived from the same theory. Which means<BR>
that the amount of energy released by fission & fusion reactions would<BR>
be changing over time. Ditto for a *huge* number of physical constant<BR>
related to the speed of light. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3102<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3103</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/28/00 9:27:42 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 28 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3103<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Taxing energy  <BR>
Re: Taxing energy<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
RE: Zhodani Fleet Question<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101<BR>
Re: Looking for forms....<BR>
Re: Taxing energy<BR>
Re: Gun Stats<BR>
Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
Re: Looking for forms<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
RE: Plasma Cannon<BR>
RE: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
ah, Tod, yes, i have a question...<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Playtest Coordinator Needed<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
[OT] Telephony<BR>
[OT] The Rules of Hockey<BR>
Re: Weapon form data<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 23:57:38 -0500<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Taxing energy  <BR>
<BR>
>For example, you *don't* take something like an aluminum smelter<BR>
>facility offline without giving the power company advance notice.<BR>
>Otherwise, you'll get a surge that'll fry half the equipment for miles<BR>
>around.<BR>
><BR>
>Likewise you don't add a major drain or a new generator without having<BR>
>folks on the load management boards watching the meters like hawks.<BR>
>(I'm told some place have meters marked in kA and MV!)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I remember a time ( a few years ago) when a power company took a large<BR>
generator off line for maintenance and the next day a worker<BR>
disconnected 2 other generators while cleaning the transformers at the<BR>
plant. parts of 6 states went dark for up to 20 hours as this tripped<BR>
other connected power plants.<BR>
<BR>
Charles H<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:01:44 -0500<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Taxing energy<BR>
<BR>
>Data point. A standard household "service drop" is wired for 220/240 at<BR>
<BR>
>200 amps. That's 48 kW *max*. And it's unlikely to get close to<BR>
>capacity except in really unusual circumstances. And I don't mean<BR>
>heating/air conditioning load. I mean something like the homeowner<BR>
>having *major* equipment on premises.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
my dad browned out the whole neighborhood on several occations.<BR>
<BR>
but that was using an arc welder on a hot summer night.<BR>
<BR>
Charles H<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:13:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Check out http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c-decay.html for a counter<BR>
> arguement to to Mr Setterfields proposal. <BR>
><BR>
> Changing the speed of light would not change much in Traveller. We would<BR>
> still have jump drives. The speed of light would still be an upper limit<BR>
> to how fast a ship could travel, and there would still be paradoxes<BR>
> above this lower speed. Slowing the speed of light does not invalidate<BR>
> relativity, because relitvity is about measuring the speed of one object<BR>
> from the point of view of another. <BR>
><BR>
> Of course, I cant help but wonder what will happen in this theoretical<BR>
> universe when the speed of light gets down to 1 metre per second, or<BR>
> even Zero.<BR>
<BR>
If it's "slowing" by 5% per 300 years, it'll never hit zero. <BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, it winds up being *way* too high back when the earth<BR>
was formed. (1/0.95)^10e7 * 3e8 = Essentially *infinite*.<BR>
<BR>
Which means that radioactve decay would have released enough energy to<BR>
annihilate the planets before they ever formed. Likewise, the sun would<BR>
have been putting out insane amounts of power as well. <BR>
<BR>
Matter of fact, a quick calculation shows that at 5% decrease per 300<BR>
years, the speed of light was 10^99 times faster 1.3 million years ago.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:46:49 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Zhodani Fleet Question<BR>
<BR>
Cliff Linehan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> 	Does anyone know if the Zhodani use battle riders? I'm looking for a<BR>
> cannon reference if one exists.<BR>
<BR>
I checked the only two sources that I have readily-available: Alien Module 4<BR>
and the Fifth Frontier War game. I found no reference to Zhodani fleets in<BR>
AM4, and in FFW the composition of the Zhodani fleets is virtually identical<BR>
to that of the Imperial fleets, so any possible difference is not reflected<BR>
in the organization of the different militaries, at least at the squadron<BR>
level.<BR>
<BR>
I would guess that the perfidious Zhodani use battle riders just like the 3I<BR>
does.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 01:23:57 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/28/00 1:16:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> If it's "slowing" by 5% per 300 years, it'll never hit zero. <BR>
>  <BR>
>  On the other hand, it winds up being *way* too high back when the earth<BR>
>  was formed. (1/0.95)^10e7 * 3e8 = Essentially *infinite*.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Which means that radioactve decay would have released enough energy to<BR>
>  annihilate the planets before they ever formed. Likewise, the sun would<BR>
>  have been putting out insane amounts of power as well. <BR>
>  <BR>
>  Matter of fact, a quick calculation shows that at 5% decrease per 300<BR>
>  years, the speed of light was 10^99 times faster 1.3 million years ago.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC this "theory" is mostly taken seriously by young-earth creationists,<BR>
who would like to "prove" that the universe is in fact only a few thousand<BR>
years old.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:35:58 -0700<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:46 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Zhodani Fleet Question<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Cliff Linehan wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Does anyone know if the Zhodani use battle riders? I'm looking for a<BR>
> > cannon reference if one exists.<BR>
><BR>
> I checked the only two sources that I have readily-available: Alien Module<BR>
4<BR>
> and the Fifth Frontier War game. I found no reference to Zhodani fleets in<BR>
> AM4, and in FFW the composition of the Zhodani fleets is virtually<BR>
identical<BR>
> to that of the Imperial fleets, so any possible difference is not<BR>
reflected<BR>
> in the organization of the different militaries, at least at the squadron<BR>
> level.<BR>
><BR>
> I would guess that the perfidious Zhodani use battle riders just like the<BR>
3I<BR>
> does.<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know the displacement rage of Battle Riders? MT's fighting ships<BR>
of the Imperium (Not sure if I remember the title right) placed the Tenders<BR>
displacement under those of the BH line, with the Battle Riders displacing<BR>
about 30,000 tons. However, TNE's Battle Rider game gives Battle Riders<BR>
combat capabilities superiour to the Voloshief (sp?) class, and again IIRC,<BR>
at least equal to the Sylea class.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:14:51 GMT<BR>
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101<BR>
<BR>
In mail "Tod Glenn" asked:<BR>
><BR>
>Does anyone know if there exists color graphics of the megacorp logos?  I'd<BR>
>like to add the megacorp logos to my traveller graphics web page<BR>
>(http://www.travellercentral.com), and if not, get a color scheme to create<BR>
>color logos based on the pics in the various Traveller resources.<BR>
><BR>
Didn't someone declare the Imperial Sunburst would be black-on-white 'cos <BR>
some minor race saw in the Infra-Red waveband and thought the flag was <BR>
blank?  Would the (Imperial-licenced) MegaCorps follow the same line or <BR>
would they be happy to go unnoticed on some planets?<BR>
ObTrav:<BR>
"Whose ship was it you say passed dangerously close on approach?"<BR>
"Don't know,officer, I didn't see a flag..."<BR>
<BR>
And PLST wrote<BR>
><BR>
>Now  that  raises  an  interesting  question:  We  have  cultural<BR>
>profiles for planetary societies (thanks  to  WBH/WTH).  I  think<BR>
>there could be a fairly homogeneous Traveller  (ie  "interstellar<BR>
>backpacker")  culture.   What  is  its  profile?   What  are  its<BR>
>characteristics?<BR>
><BR>
They tend to keep a low profile else they get thrown out of starships near <BR>
Bernard's Star, after listening to abysmal poetry written by giant slugs <BR>
with 'Personality problems beyond the dreams of analysts'...<BR>
<BR>
Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, who's seen more than his fair share of <BR>
Ningies...)<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
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http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:25:11 -0700<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Jeff Rowse" <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 12:14 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail "Tod Glenn" asked:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Does anyone know if there exists color graphics of the megacorp logos?<BR>
I'd<BR>
> >like to add the megacorp logos to my traveller graphics web page<BR>
> >(http://www.travellercentral.com), and if not, get a color scheme to<BR>
create<BR>
> >color logos based on the pics in the various Traveller resources.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Didn't someone declare the Imperial Sunburst would be black-on-white 'cos<BR>
> some minor race saw in the Infra-Red waveband and thought the flag was<BR>
> blank?  Would the (Imperial-licenced) MegaCorps follow the same line or<BR>
> would they be happy to go unnoticed on some planets?<BR>
> ObTrav:<BR>
> "Whose ship was it you say passed dangerously close on approach?"<BR>
> "Don't know,officer, I didn't see a flag..."<BR>
><BR>
Actually, if I remember correctly, it was declared that the Imperial flag<BR>
would have no offiicial color, though the original banner in the octagon was<BR>
a Yellow Sunburst on a black field.<BR>
<BR>
Jeffrey Yin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 05:41:44 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for forms....<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:34:26 -0700<BR>
>From: "Erik Shumaker" <attendolo@hotmail.com><BR>
>Subject: Looking for forms....<BR>
><BR>
>I am looking for pseudo-official looking forms for the campaign that I am<BR>
>running. Does anyone know of any traveller forms that I can use as a<BR>
>watermark on some "Official" documents from the Imperium to the players?<BR>
<BR>
The second CT Reprints book from Far Futures includes Supplement 12, Forms<BR>
and Records, which is just what it sounds like: a book of nothing but blank<BR>
forms of all types.<BR>
<BR>
GT: Far Trader has a few forms in the back, updated from Supplement 12 for<BR>
GT. I have these in their original form (MS Access -- don't ask why), and I<BR>
may have a binary (.jpg or .gif) version somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 00:19:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Taxing energy<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Data point. A standard household "service drop" is wired for 220/240 at<BR>
><BR>
>>200 amps. That's 48 kW *max*. And it's unlikely to get close to<BR>
>>capacity except in really unusual circumstances. And I don't mean<BR>
>>heating/air conditioning load. I mean something like the homeowner<BR>
>>having *major* equipment on premises.<BR>
><BR>
> my dad browned out the whole neighborhood on several occations.<BR>
><BR>
> but that was using an arc welder on a hot summer night.<BR>
<BR>
It's *really* unlikely that the arc welder drew anything like 48 kW.<BR>
But the fact that the whole neighborhood went dim shows that the power<BR>
companies often can't supply anything *approaching* the "rated" load to<BR>
all customers.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2001 11:02:03 +0100<BR>
From: CGS <michael@carrickfergus.schoolzone.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Gun Stats<BR>
<BR>
REal world stats (MV, KE, mass, etc.) would be the 'lingua franca' from<BR>
which game specific stats could be derived.<BR>
<BR>
Mind you I am biased. Three years ago I was asked to do a gun list for<BR>
STOCS, it is still going and has become the database from hell. The plan<BR>
is to have every gun in it. <BR>
<BR>
Michael<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:27:52 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/27/00 4:42:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
>  Subject: Megacorp logos<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Does anyone know if there exists color graphics of the megacorp logos?  I'd<BR>
>  like to add the megacorp logos to my traveller graphics web page<BR>
>  (http://www.travellercentral.com), and if not, get a color scheme to create<BR>
>  color logos based on the pics in the various Traveller resources.<BR>
<BR>
I have all the logos (well, at least most), I think I only have one that is <BR>
in color though because all the prints were B&W. They are in EPS and WMF <BR>
format.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:32:42 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for forms<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/27/00 9:57:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Looking for forms....<BR>
>  <BR>
>  I am looking for pseudo-official looking forms for the campaign that I am<BR>
>  running. Does anyone know of any traveller forms that I can use as a<BR>
>  watermark on some "Official" documents from the Imperium to the players?<BR>
<BR>
What types of forms do you want. I have some available (basically from one of <BR>
the supplements).<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:38:49 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
> What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.  <BR>
> Are there any conversion guides for moving designs to GT?<BR>
> <BR>
> I've been playing with G3G and FFS2 and have developed a <BR>
> hybrid system that seems pretty accurate in reproducing RL<BR>
> weapons accross a broad range (FFS2 doesn't handle extremes<BR>
> very well).  What data is useful?<BR>
<BR>
My vote is for MT.  For format and required data check  out  the<BR>
weapon sheets put out by DGP in some of the later issues of  the<BR>
Digest magazine ... as a ref I've found these  damn  handy!  For<BR>
weapon design there is a sequence (with notes) in 3G3.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 08:38:50 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
A couple quick comments:<BR>
1. This calculation is ^not^ the official way to calculate c-decay according <BR>
to the actual theory.<BR>
2. The rate of decay that I stated is 0.5%, resulting a _lower_ speed than <BR>
calculated for the estimated birth of the universe.<BR>
3. When I said that the length of a light second had changed, I meant that <BR>
the lengths used in space combat were unaltered - for simplicity.<BR>
4. According to the Big Bang theory, the mass hurled from the explosion <BR>
would have had to travel at speeds much higher than the currently accepted <BR>
speed of light, making this theory applicable to both creationism _and_ <BR>
evolution.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
- ----Original Message Follows----<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:13:09 PST<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
 > Check out http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/c-decay.html for a counter<BR>
 > arguement to to Mr Setterfields proposal.<BR>
 ><BR>
 > Changing the speed of light would not change much in Traveller. We would<BR>
 > still have jump drives. The speed of light would still be an upper limit<BR>
 > to how fast a ship could travel, and there would still be paradoxes<BR>
 > above this lower speed. Slowing the speed of light does not invalidate<BR>
 > relativity, because relitvity is about measuring the speed of one object<BR>
 > from the point of view of another.<BR>
 ><BR>
 > Of course, I cant help but wonder what will happen in this theoretical<BR>
 > universe when the speed of light gets down to 1 metre per second, or<BR>
 > even Zero.<BR>
<BR>
If it's "slowing" by 5% per 300 years, it'll never hit zero.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, it winds up being *way* too high back when the earth<BR>
was formed. (1/0.95)^10e7 * 3e8 = Essentially *infinite*.<BR>
<BR>
Which means that radioactve decay would have released enough energy to<BR>
annihilate the planets before they ever formed. Likewise, the sun would<BR>
have been putting out insane amounts of power as well.<BR>
<BR>
Matter of fact, a quick calculation shows that at 5% decrease per 300<BR>
years, the speed of light was 10^99 times faster 1.3 million years ago.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:18:51 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Plasma Cannon<BR>
<BR>
Go right ahead. Post away!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Pronto<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 9:16 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Plasma Cannon<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
<BR>
> Just posted to the Pinkerdoo Site (http://members.home.com/pinkerdoo):<BR>
><BR>
> The Pinkerdoo Plasma Mega Blaster!<BR>
><BR>
> Be the first on your block to own a hand held Plasma Gun! yes, you too can<BR>
> annoy your friends by blasting large holes in their property!<BR>
><BR>
> (Please note: Due to some restrictions on technology and portable fusion<BR>
> power plants, this version does not incorporate a fusion reactor. Nor does<BR>
> it incorporate a variable width beam at this time.)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Oh, perfect, just perfect. Thank you, sir!<BR>
If its ok with you I will be posting your design on the Schlock Mercenary<BR>
discusion board. I will, of course give you full credit, appreciation and a<BR>
link to your site.<BR>
<BR>
I don't know if Mr. Tayler will be interested in using your design specs,<BR>
but if so, one of us will contact you first.<BR>
And I will be using this in a game soon, I'll let you know how it works.<BR>
(Evil chuckle)<BR>
<BR>
Again, thanks, this is great.<BR>
<BR>
Pronto<BR>
AKA Brian Taylor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 07:25:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
A battle rider is simply a carried large craft. You could even make an<BR>
argument that fighters are battle riders.<BR>
<BR>
I have seen Mr. Avendoo playing around with some designs with 300 ton battle<BR>
riders, While Mr. Pinkly seems to favor massively large battle riders with<BR>
flourishes and wood paneling.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
Does anyone know the displacement rage of Battle Riders? MT's fighting ships<BR>
of the Imperium (Not sure if I remember the title right) placed the Tenders<BR>
displacement under those of the BH line, with the Battle Riders displacing<BR>
about 30,000 tons. However, TNE's Battle Rider game gives Battle Riders<BR>
combat capabilities superiour to the Voloshief (sp?) class, and again IIRC,<BR>
at least equal to the Sylea class.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:38:15 -0700<BR>
From: "fadetozero" <bempath@iserv.net><BR>
Subject: ah, Tod, yes, i have a question...<BR>
<BR>
do u have insight into how the Striker values for primary, secondary, and<BR>
tertiary blast Radii for nukes were arrived at?  and how about the<BR>
penetration value in various zones?  I posted the question to the trav-tech<BR>
group, but collectively, we are mysteriously silent on the matter...i'm<BR>
guessing the qrc server is doing it's own thing again...:-(<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:47:25 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 9/28/00 9:52:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
cheeb0@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> 4. According to the Big Bang theory, the mass hurled from the explosion <BR>
>  would have had to travel at speeds much higher than the currently accepted <BR>
>  speed of light, making this theory applicable to both creationism _and_ <BR>
>  evolution.<BR>
<BR>
Uh, not exactly.  But I sense that any attempt to clear up this point will<BR>
snarl us in a pointless dispute, so I'll point you to the literature and leave<BR>
it at that.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:59:56 -0500<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: Playtest Coordinator Needed<BR>
<BR>
I need a volunteer playtest coordinator to oversee the playtest of GT<BR>
Starships. This person must be<BR>
<BR>
* A pyramid Subscriber (which is where the playtests take place)<BR>
* A Gearhead without peer<BR>
* Extremely familiar with GT, GURPS Vehicles, and GURPS in general.<BR>
* Willing and able to intervene to keep the playtest on track, minimize<BR>
flamewars and wasted discusson without inhibiting debate, and prepare<BR>
summaries of the conclusions at various stages of the playtest for<BR>
presentation to the Line Manager (my humble self) and the Starships author<BR>
(Rob Prior).<BR>
<BR>
Interested partys please e-mail lkw@io.com and we will discuss the duties<BR>
in more detail, and what you get out of the deal.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:05:43 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
>><BR>
Sorry, but the length of a parsec has no relation whatsoever to the<BR>
speed of light. It's based on the AU, which is based on the size of<BR>
Earth's orbit.<BR>
<BR>
A parsec is the distance at which the position of a star against the<BR>
more distant stars shifts by one second of arc (a parallax of 1 second)<BR>
when viewed from opposite sides of Earth's orbit.<BR>
<BR>
Essentially: 1 parsec = tan(8959'59") AU.<BR>
That's roughly 206,264.7897 AU.<BR>
<BR>
<<<BR>
Sorry I don't know what AU means.... what does it stand for. I ask this as I<BR>
don't really know what a pasec is relative to any fixed distance...<BR>
I'd like to know, that is why I ask.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:17:55 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: [OT] Telephony<BR>
<BR>
> Your request for help has been received by the TML. Your business is<BR>
> important to us. Please hold. A customer service representative will be<BR>
> with<BR>
> you soon.<BR>
<BR>
	You know, my brother worked for years in some ill-defined computer<BR>
communications job and never quite came out and said what he did.  Just<BR>
recently I figured out that he did telephony work (that's the actual term<BR>
they use).  This is supposed to mean "the design and implementation of<BR>
telephone reception systems".  But what it really means is "being<BR>
insincere from a distance"  [Etymology: "tele-" from the latin "telus" <BR>
meaning "distance", and "phony" from the english "phony" meaning "phony". <BR>
E.g., "Your call is important to us" or "An agent will be with your<BR>
shortly" ] :-) <BR>
<BR>
"I HAVE NO BROTHER!"  (Well, the other two are okay...)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:20:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: [OT] The Rules of Hockey<BR>
<BR>
<Charles H><BR>
I went to see my first hockey game the other day.  Great fun.<BR>
but what are the rules??  and why did you not get me interested in it<BR>
earlier?<BR>
</CH><BR>
<BR>
I'm assuming you mean "ice hockey" and not that thing they do on the grass<BR>
in short intervals between whistle blows, weilding shepherd sticks<BR>
and wearing short skirts? :-)<BR>
<BR>
If so, the only complicated rules are like this:<BR>
<BR>
1. Off-side: You can't pass to a guy already in the oponent's zone<BR>
(between goal and nearest blue line).  The puck must enter this zone<BR>
before any of your players, or it's off-side.  Kinda like soccer, except<BR>
the line stays still instead of moving with the last defender. <BR>
<BR>
2. Two-Line Passing and Icing:  You cannot make any pass that crosses two<BR>
lines (e.g. from inside your zone to just outside their zone).  You also<BR>
cannot whip the puck all the way down the ice (ie. from your zone to the<BR>
back board of the oponents)  even if you're not passing.  That's "icing" <BR>
and the puck comes back for a face off in the zone from which it was<BR>
cleared.  Icing does not apply if you are trying to "kill a penalty". <BR>
That is, you're a man or two down due to penalties and just trying to keep<BR>
the opponents from swarming your net. <BR>
<BR>
3. Checking: You can hit a guy with your shoulder, chest or hip, but not<BR>
your fist, knee, head or stick. Unless the ref isn't looking, in which<BR>
case anything goes. <BR>
<BR>
4. Fighting: If you fight, you both get a penalty.  Sometimes the guy who<BR>
started it gets a longer one, but not always.  You have to fight<BR>
occasionally or you will be considered a sissy (aka, a "skills player"). <BR>
Fighting intimidates the other team and keeps their "goons" from checking<BR>
the tar out of your smaller "skills players" all the time, at least in<BR>
theory. <BR>
<BR>
5. You cannot check the goalie while he's in his crease.  Technically you<BR>
can check the goalie while he's out, but you can be sure this will incur<BR>
some of rule #4, so it's rarely done.  If one of your players is in the<BR>
crease when you score, the goal doesn't count ("interference").<BR>
<BR>
6. If the puck goes in the net, you get a point.  If the puck glows blue<BR>
and turns red on a slapshot, you're watching FOX and you should<BR>
immediately change the channel. <BR>
<BR>
I think that's it...oh.  You can use any part of your body (including the<BR>
hands) to block the puck and let it drop to the ice, but you can only<BR>
direct the puck with your stick or skates.  You cannot direct the puck<BR>
into the net by kicking it, or the goal will not count.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That's all in theory, some things are not well-enforced.  A lot is up to<BR>
the judgement of the refree.  And that's the ObTrav! :-)<BR>
<BR>
Another ObTrav is that hockey rules make a pretty good Gravball game, you<BR>
just have to make it 3D...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Charles C.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:08:10 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: jason eric bernstein <apoc527@u.washington.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Weapon form data<BR>
<BR>
Hello, <BR>
<BR>
As a newcomer to the Traveller world, I have only had the opportunity to<BR>
buy GURPS: Traveller products.  I don't have much experience with GURPS<BR>
yet, but I would like to see weapons for GT as well.  I might be able to<BR>
help with some of the translation, but I have no idea how CT or T4, or any<BR>
of the original Traveller games works.  Anyway, it might be nice to give<BR>
the newcomers some new gear as well.  <BR>
<BR>
- -Jake Bernstein<BR>
apoc527@u.washington.edu<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3103<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3104</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/28/00 3:46:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 28 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3104<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
RE: Battle Riders / Zhodani Fleet Question<BR>
Traveller Cardboard Heroes<BR>
Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
Re: Fleet Week<BR>
Re: "pop"<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format <BR>
Re: Weapon form data<BR>
Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
What is a Parsec?<BR>
Jump speed.<BR>
Re: Jump speed.<BR>
Re: Jump speed.<BR>
Re: Jump speed.<BR>
Re: Jump speed.<BR>
RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format <BR>
Re: Jump speed.<BR>
RE: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:15:55 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
James Jensen writes:<BR>
<BR>
> 4. According to the Big Bang theory, the mass hurled from the explosion <BR>
> would have had to travel at speeds much higher than the currently accepted <BR>
> speed of light, making this theory applicable to both creationism _and_ <BR>
> evolution.<BR>
<BR>
Well, (a) the big bang wasn't an explosion, nor is it even remotely accurate<BR>
to describe it as 'hurling' matter anywhere, and (b) hyperinflation doesn't<BR>
require that any given particle move at superluminal speeds, it just relates<BR>
to the rate of expansion of the universe.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:23:09 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: michael.scanlon [mailto:michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net]<BR>
> Sent: 28 September 2000 16:06<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <snip><BR>
> >><BR>
> Sorry, but the length of a parsec has no relation whatsoever to the<BR>
> speed of light. It's based on the AU, which is based on the size of<BR>
> Earth's orbit.<BR>
> <BR>
> A parsec is the distance at which the position of a star against the<BR>
> more distant stars shifts by one second of arc (a parallax of <BR>
> 1 second)<BR>
> when viewed from opposite sides of Earth's orbit.<BR>
> <BR>
> Essentially: 1 parsec = tan(8959'59") AU.<BR>
> That's roughly 206,264.7897 AU.<BR>
> <BR>
> <<<BR>
> Sorry I don't know what AU means.... what does it stand for. <BR>
> I ask this as I<BR>
> don't really know what a pasec is relative to any fixed distance...<BR>
> I'd like to know, that is why I ask.<BR>
> <BR>
> Mike<BR>
<BR>
The first paragraph you quoted *almost* clearly explains it, but just<BR>
fails...<BR>
<BR>
AU = Astronomical Unit = Mean value of Earth's Orbit.<BR>
<BR>
Parallax = relative change of position of a stationary (relatively<BR>
speaking...) object against the background caused by viewing it from a<BR>
different position.<BR>
<BR>
1 second [of arc] = 1/3600th of a degree.<BR>
<BR>
So if an object in space shows an apparent motion of 1 Second against<BR>
the background stars due to the Earth moving to the far side of it's<BR>
orbit, then the baseline is 2AU (diameter of Earth's Orbit), and simple<BR>
trigonometry provides the distance to the object as 3.26 light years.<BR>
<BR>
Thus a parallax (PAR) of 1 second (SEC) is 3.26 ly (PARSEC)<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:23:30 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
Michael Scanlon wrote:<BR>
> Sorry I don't know what AU means.... what does it stand for. <BR>
> I ask this as I don't really know what a pasec is relative to<BR>
> any fixed distance... I'd like to know, that is why I ask.<BR>
<BR>
AU stands for Astronomical Unit.  It is  the  *average*  distance<BR>
from the Earth to the Sun.<BR>
<BR>
A parsec:  When the Earth moves from one side of the Sun  to  the<BR>
opposite the distance between these two  points  is  2  AU.  From<BR>
this different view point a nearby star  will  *appear*  to  have<BR>
moved relative  to  the  general  background.  A  parsec  is  the<BR>
theoretical distance a star needs to be such that this *apparent*<BR>
change in position of the star is 1 second of arc.  Of course the<BR>
star hasn't moved, the Earth has.<BR>
<BR>
So when talking about interstellar distances  either  parsecs  or<BR>
lightyears make conveinent  units  of  distance  (Traveller  uses<BR>
parsecs).  When talking about interplanetary distances  then  AUs<BR>
make conveinent units of distance (Traveller uses AUs  to  define<BR>
planetary orbits).<BR>
<BR>
IIRC a parsec is 3.26 lightyears, and an AU is about  8.3  light-<BR>
minutes.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:04:47 -0700<BR>
From: Cliff Linehan <clinehan@sfamipec.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Battle Riders / Zhodani Fleet Question<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote:<BR>
>I checked the only two sources that I have readily-available: Alien Module<BR>
4<BR>
>and the Fifth Frontier War game. I found no reference to Zhodani fleets in<BR>
>AM4, and in FFW the composition of the Zhodani fleets is virtually<BR>
identical<BR>
>to that of the Imperial fleets, so any possible difference is not reflected<BR>
>in the organization of the different militaries, at least at the squadron<BR>
>level.<BR>
><BR>
>I would guess that the perfidious Zhodani use battle riders just like the<BR>
3I<BR>
>does.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for looking.<BR>
<BR>
The Rebellion Sourcebook (Pg.31) says the five basic squadron types remain<BR>
the same (virtually identical to Imperial), and that the Zhodani have and<BR>
use a sixth squadron type known as the command squadron.<BR>
<BR>
Based on the preponderance of the evidence it is "most likely" that the<BR>
Zhodani use Battle Riders.<BR>
<BR>
Clifford Linehan<BR>
http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller<BR>
Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core route.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:27:00 -0700<BR>
From: Steve Charlton <Steve.Charlton@ifsna.com><BR>
Subject: Traveller Cardboard Heroes<BR>
<BR>
So, I saw on the SJG Web  that there is going to be a GURPS Traveller Refs<BR>
screen  (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/), and it will come<BR>
with a nice little tidbit -<BR>
<BR>
"And, since every GM needs a tavern to start the adventure off right, here's<BR>
a poster-sized floor plan for Brubek's, the starport bar . . . and a sheet<BR>
of new Cardboard Heroes miniatures showing typical patrons." <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
So whay hasn't anyone else raised some hoopla over this?  I have desperately<BR>
needed some of these!  A couple of questions:<BR>
<BR>
1.  Are they 20mm or 25mm?<BR>
2.  Will we be able to order additional sheets separately via Warehouse 23?<BR>
I may want more than one sheet, but I probably don't need more than one<BR>
Ref's Screen.<BR>
<BR>
Outstanding news, Loren!<BR>
<BR>
Steve Charlton<BR>
Steven Charlton<BR>
Software Engineer | IFS Global Manufacturing<BR>
<BR>
IFS R&D, Tucson<BR>
1010 North Finance Center Drive<BR>
Tucson, Arizona USA  85710<BR>
Tel +1 (520) 512-2838<BR>
Fax +1 (520) 512-2001<BR>
E-mail Steve.Charlton@ifsna.com<BR>
www.ifsworld.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:55:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
<BR>
Any possibility of getting copies of the logos in eps?<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <Kagehira@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 4:27 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Megacorp logos<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 9/27/00 4:42:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,<BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
> > Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> >  Subject: Megacorp logos<BR>
> ><BR>
> >  Does anyone know if there exists color graphics of the megacorp logos?<BR>
I'd<BR>
> >  like to add the megacorp logos to my traveller graphics web page<BR>
> >  (http://www.travellercentral.com), and if not, get a color scheme to<BR>
create<BR>
> >  color logos based on the pics in the various Traveller resources.<BR>
><BR>
> I have all the logos (well, at least most), I think I only have one that<BR>
is<BR>
> in color though because all the prints were B&W. They are in EPS and WMF<BR>
> format.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:32:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fleet Week<BR>
<BR>
At 03:06 PM 9/27/2000, you wrote:<BR>
>Once the Chronicle prints the full schedule of events and which ships will<BR>
>be open to tours, I'll post them to the list (and send you a copy, David).<BR>
><BR>
>We'll figure out what we're doing at that point.<BR>
<BR>
Oops.  That was supposed to go to the Traveller in SF list.  Sorry.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 10:30:40<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "pop"<BR>
<BR>
At 10:13 PM 9/27/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I went to see my first hockey game the other day.  Great fun.<BR>
>but what are the rules??  and why did you not get me interested in it<BR>
>earlier?<BR>
<BR>
http://village.infoweb.ne.jp/~fwgd6340/Tips/Tips.html<BR>
<BR>
is a good place to start.<BR>
<BR>
Now, if we could only get Andres Cantor to call the Sharks' games...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:02:35 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format <BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
 > What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.<BR>
 > Are there any conversion guides for moving designs to GT?<BR>
<BR>
The preferred format is TNE with the FF&S build data.<BR>
 From there I'd use G-Cubed to convert to CT, T4 & GURPS.<BR>
MT can be left as a exercise to the reader.  If they can deal with all the <BR>
errata, then this should be a piece of cake.<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:10:02 -0500<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Weapon form data<BR>
<BR>
jason eric bernstein wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Hello,<BR>
><BR>
> As a newcomer to the Traveller world, I have only had the opportunity to<BR>
> buy GURPS: Traveller products.  I don't have much experience with GURPS<BR>
> yet, but I would like to see weapons for GT as well.  I might be able to<BR>
> help with some of the translation, but I have no idea how CT or T4, or any<BR>
> of the original Traveller games works.  Anyway, it might be nice to give<BR>
> the newcomers some new gear as well.<BR>
<BR>
I have played GURPS for some ten years and I would be willing to convert game<BR>
data from the other systems (CT/MT/TNE) to GT.<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:17:32 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote:<BR>
> A battle rider is simply a carried large craft. You could even make an<BR>
> argument that fighters are battle riders.<BR>
<BR>
I personally have stricter views regarding what is a "battle rider". <BR>
<BR>
You could make the argument that fighters count, but as the term is normally <BR>
used, the "battle" in battle rider means that the ship can "stand in the line <BR>
of battle"; depending on who the competition is, that usually means it needs <BR>
a spinal mount.<BR>
<BR>
I would, personally, not use the term "battle rider" for anything that doesn't <BR>
come with a spinal mount. The whole BR/battle tender concept is built around <BR>
the strategy of getting as many spinal mounts into the fight as possible. <BR>
<BR>
I place no hard limits on tonnage, but in my opinion, a 15Kton BR has made too <BR>
many compromises, and a 200Kton BR isn't carrying enough big guns to be <BR>
worthwhile. <BR>
 <BR>
> I have seen Mr. Avendoo playing around with some designs with 300 ton battle<BR>
> riders<BR>
<BR>
A combat-oriented non-starship in the sub-1000-ton range is normally, in <BR>
Traveller, called a System Defense Boat. If you're carrying a bunch of them<BR>
to an enemy system, I guess the term becomes a bit of a misnomer; maybe <BR>
they're System Offense Boats? (SOBs, cool!)<BR>
<BR>
> While Mr. Pinkly seems to favor massively large battle riders with<BR>
> flourishes and wood paneling.<BR>
> <BR>
> - -----Original Message-----<BR>
> Does anyone know the displacement rage of Battle Riders? MT's fighting ships<BR>
> of the Imperium (Not sure if I remember the title right) placed the Tenders<BR>
> displacement under those of the BH line, with the Battle Riders displacing<BR>
> about 30,000 tons. However, TNE's Battle Rider game gives Battle Riders<BR>
> combat capabilities superiour to the Voloshief (sp?) class, and again IIRC,<BR>
> at least equal to the Sylea class.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 13:47:42 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> A combat-oriented non-starship in the sub-1000-ton range is normally, in <BR>
> Traveller, called a System Defense Boat. If you're carrying a bunch of them<BR>
> to an enemy system, I guess the term becomes a bit of a misnomer; maybe <BR>
> they're System Offense Boats? (SOBs, cool!)<BR>
<BR>
With FF&S, I once designed a 1000-ton sunnuvabich (I just had to try the<BR>
term out).  It even mounted a fairly powerful spinal meson gun, meeting<BR>
your first condition for calling something a battle rider.  The gun's<BR>
range was limited due to its short length, but I also gave the ship 9G<BR>
acceleration (as you can see, it deviated from conventional designs in<BR>
more than one way).  I figured a squadron of ten of these could rush a<BR>
capital ship and critical it before it had time to destroy more than one<BR>
or two of them, which I deemed an accpetable risk for destroying a target<BR>
of that value.<BR>
This was partly inspired by the Manticore-class "light battle rider,"<BR>
which is apparently a Dragon SDB refitted with a meson gun and carried by<BR>
RC clippers in the Battle Rider game.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 11:52:50 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
michael.scanlon wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
><BR>
> Sorry I don't know what AU means.... what does it stand for. I ask this as I<BR>
> don't really know what a pasec is relative to any fixed distance...<BR>
> I'd like to know, that is why I ask.<BR>
<BR>
Per the Encyclopaedia Britannica:<BR>
<BR>
"length of the semi-major axis of the Earth to<BR>
  the Sun, the value of which is 149,597,870 km<BR>
  (92,955,808 miles). It also is often defined simply<BR>
  as the average distance from the Earth to the<BR>
  Sun. "<BR>
<BR>
It's a unit of convenience among astronomers, it's easier to say 'Its<BR>
12.2 AU' instead of 'Eleventy kajillion miles' ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:13:58 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Does anyone know the displacement rage of Battle Riders? MT's fighting ships<BR>
> of the Imperium (Not sure if I remember the title right) placed the Tenders<BR>
> displacement under those of the BH line, with the Battle Riders displacing<BR>
> about 30,000 tons. However, TNE's Battle Rider game gives Battle Riders<BR>
> combat capabilities superiour to the Voloshief (sp?) class, and again IIRC,<BR>
> at least equal to the Sylea class.<BR>
<BR>
The battle riders in _Battle Rider_ were conversions of designs in MT's <BR>
FSOTSI.  (Fortunately, the tenders weren't.)  You may be seeing one of<BR>
two effects:<BR>
<BR>
  * The battle riders don't have jump drives; hence, they can be more<BR>
    effective in some ways -- that is the whole point of the concept.<BR>
  * The number of weapons on the BBs is a bit deceiving -- remember, <BR>
    the printed number of weapons on the chit is modified by the size<BR>
    rating of the ship; I don't recall the exact mechanic off-hand, <BR>
    but the big ships *do* have a lot of weapons.<BR>
<BR>
At TL15 in High Guard, 30000 tons seems to be a good size for a very<BR>
capable rider.  Lower tech versions may be larger, to deal with larger<BR>
power plant displacement and less efficient armor.  (In most Traveller<BR>
combat systems, BBs/BRs want to be as small as possible; they're hard<BR>
to hit and cheaper.  It's the mid-tech ships and the Battle Tenders<BR>
that are behemoths.  MT combat may work differently -- if not, I think<BR>
FSOTSI missed that point with the 700 kton BHs.)<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:48:11 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
Subject: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
A parsec is the distance at which the position of a star against the<BR>
more distant stars shifts by one second of arc (a parallax of 1 second)<BR>
when viewed from opposite sides of Earth's orbit.<BR>
<BR>
Essentially: 1 parsec = tan(8959'59") AU.<BR>
That's roughly 206,264.7897 AU.<<<<BR>
<BR>
OK I can understand that 1 parsec equals the distance a star moves, in<BR>
relation to the stars that are so far away. That their movement is<BR>
negligable, so that you can measure an angle of one sec. This distance then<BR>
equaling 1 parsec.<BR>
Where do you get              tan(8959'59") AU ?<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:10:59 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
>>><BR>
<BR>
IIRC a parsec is 3.26 lightyears, and an AU is about  8.3  light-<BR>
minutes.<BR>
<BR>
<<<<<BR>
<BR>
From the above data<BR>
<BR>
a JUMP-1 ship actualy travels a mean average speed of 169.52 light years per<BR>
week, from one planetary system to the next.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:28:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
On Thursday, September 28, 2000 2:10 PM<BR>
michael.scanlon said,<BR>
<BR>
> a JUMP-1 ship actualy travels a mean average speed of 169.52 light<BR>
years per<BR>
> week, from one planetary system to the next.<BR>
<BR>
Of course since a Jump ship isn't traveling through normal space it<BR>
never actually gets to this speed.  It's normal space speed is always<BR>
well below C.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
===========================<BR>
Quid Quid Latine Dictum SIt, Altum Viditur<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:31:06 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
michael.scanlon writes:<BR>
> >>><BR>
> <BR>
> IIRC a parsec is 3.26 lightyears, and an AU is about  8.3  light-<BR>
> minutes.<BR>
> <BR>
> <<<<<BR>
> <BR>
> >From the above data<BR>
> <BR>
> a JUMP-1 ship actualy travels a mean average speed of 169.52 light years<BR>
> per week, from one planetary system to the next.<BR>
<BR>
Uh...what?  A J-1 ship travels 3.26 ly/week, or 169 ly/year (if it never stops<BR>
to refuel, etc).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:35:12 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> IIRC a parsec is 3.26 lightyears, and an AU is about  8.3  light-<BR>
> minutes.<BR>
><BR>
> <<<<<BR>
><BR>
> From the above data<BR>
><BR>
> a JUMP-1 ship actualy travels a mean average speed of 169.52 light years<BR>
per<BR>
> week, from one planetary system to the next.<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
<BR>
Or nearly with nearly no speed at all, assuming jump technology makes use of<BR>
'folds' in space.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:55:46 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> IIRC a parsec is 3.26 lightyears, and an AU is about  8.3  light-<BR>
> minutes.<BR>
><BR>
> <<<<<BR>
><BR>
> From the above data<BR>
><BR>
> a JUMP-1 ship actualy travels a mean average speed of 169.52 light years<BR>
per<BR>
> week, from one planetary system to the next.<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
<BR>
Or nearly with nearly no speed at all, assuming jump technology makes use of<BR>
'folds' in space.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
Hang on what I was trying to work out was the relative velocity of the ship,<BR>
whilst in Jump.<BR>
If a Jump-1 ship travels one parsec, which is 3.26 light years then it's<BR>
relative velocity is that distance it would take in a year, which is 52weeks<BR>
* 3.26light years.<BR>
<BR>
 This giving a realative velocity for a jump-1 ship at 169 times the speed<BR>
of light.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
That is what I was trying to get at...sorry for the mixup.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:51:38 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: James Jensen [mailto:cheeb0@hotmail.com]<BR>
<BR>
> 4. According to the Big Bang theory, the mass hurled from the <BR>
> explosion <BR>
> would have had to travel at speeds much higher than the <BR>
> currently accepted <BR>
> speed of light, making this theory applicable to both <BR>
> creationism _and_ <BR>
> evolution.<BR>
> <BR>
> -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
?? My understanding of the BB was that there was very little mass hurled<BR>
anywhere, and what happenned was an expansion of the universe. Why would<BR>
mass have to be moved faster than the speed of light?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:01:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
<BR>
Thing wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Of course since a Jump ship isn't traveling through normal space it<BR>
> never actually gets to this speed.  It's normal space speed is always<BR>
> well below C.<BR>
<BR>
My theory about Jump Space is that there is actually some sort of parallel<BR>
universe, full of all sorts of interesting things, through which you travel<BR>
while in Jump. So if you are one of those Scientists like MegaTraveller lets<BR>
you generate, with skills like Physics-8, you should be able to invent some<BR>
sort of technology to adjust your "oscillation overthruster phase" (or<BR>
whatever) so that you can enter this parallel universe. This could be the<BR>
basis for some extremely interesting adventures.<BR>
<BR>
I also like to use the idea of the relative motion of stuff in the Jump<BR>
Universe to explain why misjumping is random, with the random factor caused<BR>
by our lack of understanding of exactly what part of the Jump Universe you<BR>
are passing through. One time you may pass very close to a star system in<BR>
the Jump Universe, but the next time it's gone. It's because the stars and<BR>
galaxies in the Jump Universe are also moving around, but we don't quite<BR>
exactly know how yet. If we could chart the Jump Universe, we could take a<BR>
lot of the uncertainty out of interstellar travel. Maybe that's why some<BR>
rich patron, like a suitable megacorporation, wants to hire a group of PCs<BR>
to assist with some unusual physics experiments.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:59:46 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format <BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Mark Urbin [mailto:urbin@bigfoot.com]<BR>
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 4:03 AM <BR>
<BR>
<Snip><BR>
<BR>
> The preferred format is TNE with the FF&S build data.<BR>
>  From there I'd use G-Cubed to convert to CT, T4 & GURPS.<BR>
> MT can be left as a exercise to the reader.  If they can deal <BR>
> with all the <BR>
> errata, then this should be a piece of cake.<BR>
<BR>
errata... we don't need no stinking errata... we play our MT as gwd<BR>
intended, hard and raw!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:08:41 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 10:10 PM<BR>
Subject: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >>><BR>
><BR>
> IIRC a parsec is 3.26 lightyears, and an AU is about  8.3  light-<BR>
> minutes.<BR>
><BR>
> <<<<<BR>
><BR>
> From the above data<BR>
><BR>
> a JUMP-1 ship actualy travels a mean average speed of 169.52 light years<BR>
per<BR>
> week, from one planetary system to the next.<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
<BR>
No, it travels 3.26 ly per week, at a velocity of 169.52 time the speed of<BR>
light. It would take a year to travel 169.52 ly<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:05:46 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: michael.scanlon [mailto:michael.scanlon@Bmthonline.net]<BR>
<BR>
> >>><BR>
> <BR>
> IIRC a parsec is 3.26 lightyears, and an AU is about  8.3  light-<BR>
> minutes.<BR>
> <BR>
> <<<<<BR>
> <BR>
> From the above data<BR>
> <BR>
> a JUMP-1 ship actualy travels a mean average speed of 169.52 <BR>
> light years per<BR>
> week, from one planetary system to the next.<BR>
> <BR>
err.. no... a jump-1 ship travels with a mean average speed of 3.26<BR>
lightyeara a week. Unless those hexes in the subsector maps are a lot<BR>
bigger than I thought! :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3104<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Thursday, September 28 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3105<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Milieu 0<BR>
1 ParSec<BR>
Re: What is a Parsec?<BR>
Re: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
Weapon stats (again)<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
Re: Milieu 0<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3104<BR>
Re: GT News<BR>
RE: What is a Parsec?<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
So Much For Humour (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101)<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
RE: Battle Riders<BR>
Roc: Colour of Logoes<BR>
Re: Milieu 0<BR>
Re: Looking for forms....<BR>
Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
Ground Forces (Was Re: tml low message volume?)<BR>
Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:13:37 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Milieu 0<BR>
<BR>
How canon is Milieu 0? While it was published by an official Traveller <BR>
dealer, there are a couple of serious breaks in the timeline:<BR>
<BR>
1. It says that the ROM never had Jump-3, but Jump-3 was a turning point in <BR>
the Interstellar Wars!<BR>
2. It says that the Imperium expanded through use of a repressive regime <BR>
that exhausted new worlds of their resources so that they would more easily <BR>
accept the concept of Imperial credits. This seems unlikely due to the <BR>
Imperium's continued prosperity.<BR>
<BR>
Also, can anyone tell me what in the universe is up with the map of Core <BR>
provided in the M0 sourcebook? It obviously has no relation the actual <BR>
alliegence of worlds, as one of the closest worlds to Sylea is apparently <BR>
not a member, as it has a "." as the end of its name, which Sylea does not! <BR>
If anyone could give me the _real_ alliegences of these worlds, I'd be very <BR>
grateful.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:20:20 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: 1 ParSec<BR>
<BR>
I have done my math and get the following.<BR>
<BR>
that if the base is 2AU and the angle of displacement is 1 sec then 1 parsec<BR>
should be 2AU /tan(1sec) which equals something more like 4/5 ths of a light<BR>
year.<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
Essentially: 1 parsec = tan(8959'59") AU.<BR>
> That's roughly 206,264.7897 AU.<BR>
<<<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:24:44 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 9:48 PM<BR>
Subject: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Subject: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
A parsec is the distance at which the position of a star against the<BR>
more distant stars shifts by one second of arc (a parallax of 1 second)<BR>
when viewed from opposite sides of Earth's orbit.<BR>
<BR>
Essentially: 1 parsec = tan(8959'59") AU.<BR>
That's roughly 206,264.7897 AU.<<<<BR>
<BR>
OK I can understand that 1 parsec equals the distance a star moves, in<BR>
relation to the stars that are so far away. That their movement is<BR>
negligable, so that you can measure an angle of one sec. This distance then<BR>
equaling 1 parsec.<BR>
Where do you get              tan(8959'59") AU ?<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
- ---------------------<BR>
In a right-angled triangle (earth, sun, star), given the angle from the<BR>
baseline to the apex, and the length of the baseline to the centrepoint of a<BR>
triangle, the height of the triangle is given by the Tangent of the angle<BR>
multiplied by the baseline. 89 59'59" is 90 degrees minus 1 second of arc<BR>
(i.e. 89 degrees, 59 minutes, 59 seconds)<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:28:20 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thing wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Of course since a Jump ship isn't traveling through normal space it<BR>
> never actually gets to this speed.  It's normal space speed is always<BR>
> well below C.<BR>
>><BR>
My theory about Jump Space is that there is actually some sort of parallel<BR>
universe, full of all sorts of interesting things, through which you travel<BR>
while in Jump. So if you are one of those Scientists like MegaTraveller lets<BR>
you generate, with skills like Physics-8, you should be able to invent some<BR>
sort of technology to adjust your "oscillation overthruster phase" (or<BR>
whatever) so that you can enter this parallel universe. This could be the<BR>
basis for some extremely interesting adventures.<BR>
<BR>
<<<BR>
I also like this idea of parallel universes, it ease's the mind when<BR>
contemplating certain theories to which we can envisage this reality we are<BR>
in. I believe it is a new way in which people are starting to see the world<BR>
we are in, and that time and space do not exist.<BR>
I started reading a book on the subject, but got side tracked. It's called<BR>
'The End of Time', by Julian Barbour. Opens up really well.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 15:33:45 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Weapon stats (again)<BR>
<BR>
I just want to clarify, as I update the travellerguns website:<BR>
<BR>
CT, MT, TNE, T4 and GT all use different weapon stats?!  I'd like to include<BR>
stats for all Traveller formats (assuming some help from all the gearheads<BR>
on the list).  In the mean time, I'll be putting in placeholders. The basic<BR>
information will have all the standard info one would expect from Janes:<BR>
<BR>
Contibuted by (I'm hoping for contributions)<BR>
Source (if from some published work)<BR>
<BR>
Description and note (like what you currently see at www.travellerguns.com)<BR>
TL, Length, weight unloaded, magazine capacity, rate of fire<BR>
Cartridge dimensions, projectile mass, velocity, muzzle energy<BR>
cost<BR>
<BR>
Any other basic data I need to include?<BR>
- --<BR>
Tod Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
- --<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:38:34 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> ?? My understanding of the BB was that there was very little mass hurled<BR>
> anywhere, and what happenned was an expansion of the universe. Why would<BR>
> mass have to be moved faster than the speed of light?<BR>
<BR>
It's all the fault of Jim Steinman and Bonnie Tyler!<BR>
<BR>
No, wait.  That's "faster than the speed of night."<BR>
<BR>
http://www.jimsteinman.com/bonnielyrics.htm#faster<BR>
<BR>
Never mind. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:48:45 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris Wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 >?? My understanding of the BB was that there was very little mass hurled<BR>
 >anywhere, and what happenned was an expansion of the universe. Why would<BR>
 >mass have to be moved faster than the speed of light?<BR>
<BR>
I don't know. It's something that I found on a NASA website.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:00:50 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
<BR>
>My theory about Jump Space is that there is actually some sort of parallel<BR>
>universe, full of all sorts of interesting things, through which you travel<BR>
>while in Jump. So if you are one of those Scientists like MegaTraveller <BR>
>lets<BR>
>you generate, with skills like Physics-8, you should be able to invent some<BR>
>sort of technology to adjust your "oscillation overthruster phase" (or<BR>
>whatever) so that you can enter this parallel universe. This could be the<BR>
>basis for some extremely interesting adventures.<BR>
><BR>
>I also like to use the idea of the relative motion of stuff in the Jump<BR>
>Universe to explain why misjumping is random, with the random factor caused<BR>
>by our lack of understanding of exactly what part of the Jump Universe you<BR>
>are passing through. One time you may pass very close to a star system in<BR>
>the Jump Universe, but the next time it's gone. It's because the stars and<BR>
>galaxies in the Jump Universe are also moving around, but we don't quite<BR>
>exactly know how yet. If we could chart the Jump Universe, we could take a<BR>
>lot of the uncertainty out of interstellar travel. Maybe that's why some<BR>
>rich patron, like a suitable megacorporation, wants to hire a group of PCs<BR>
>to assist with some unusual physics experiments.<BR>
<BR>
I've got a coulple of theories about the nature of Jump Space myself:<BR>
1. J-Space is two-dimensional. This seems the most canon since sector maps <BR>
don't mention "up" or "down".<BR>
2. J-Space is a "zipped universe", where everything has been compressed. <BR>
Ships don't have to travel faster than light, and the jump grid protects <BR>
them from obstacles.<BR>
3. J-Space is an extra-dimensional singularity (a point of infinite <BR>
density). The ship spends no time inside J-Space (well, it does, but its an <BR>
infinitely small amount). It takes half a week to get in and half a week to <BR>
get out. When someone looks outside a window while jumping, they are viewing <BR>
the "wormhole" that takes them into and out of jumpspace.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:48:22 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0<BR>
<BR>
James Jensen wrote:<BR>
>Also, can anyone tell me what in the universe is up with the map of Core <BR>
>provided in the M0 sourcebook? It obviously has no relation the actual <BR>
>alliegence of worlds, as one of the closest worlds to Sylea is apparently <BR>
>not a member, as it has a "." as the end of its name, which Sylea does not! <BR>
>If anyone could give me the _real_ alliegences of these worlds, I'd be very <BR>
>grateful.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC, when M0 was written, the designers (most of whom were on this list at the time, and still may be, lurking) made up their own map of Core sector (which is what the text refers to) and then, right before publication, the map was switched for the one from First Survey (basically a computer printout which Marc Miller seems to have spent about 15 minutes proofreading, tops).  Thus, the map in M0 not only is largely nonsensical (and random in the worst way), it doesn't even match the rest of the book.  I think the extra pages in 'M0 Campaign' may have tried to explain away (rather than correct) some of these mistakes and errors, but I didn't buy that book, so I'm not sure (note also that those 32 extra pages were the only difference between the two editions -- all errors (even typos) from M0 and FS were carried directly over into M0 Campaign, with no re-editing or proofing whatsoever).<BR>
<BR>
If these sound like amateurish mistakes that no professional publisher should ever have made, welcome to the wonderful world of Imperium Games.  The fact that the Traveller franchise is still alive, and even thriving, after their 2-years' mishandling is nigh-on miraculous.<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:02:04 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3104<BR>
<BR>
Gregory Carl Kettler wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > A combat-oriented non-starship in the sub-1000-ton range is normally, in <BR>
> > Traveller, called a System Defense Boat. If you're carrying a bunch of them<BR>
> > to an enemy system, I guess the term becomes a bit of a misnomer; maybe <BR>
> > they're System Offense Boats? (SOBs, cool!)<BR>
> <BR>
> With FF&S, I once designed a 1000-ton sunnuvabich (I just had to try the<BR>
> term out).  It even mounted a fairly powerful spinal meson gun, meeting<BR>
> your first condition for calling something a battle rider. <BR>
<BR>
Heretic. :) By spinal mount I meant something that High Guard calls a spinal <BR>
mount, not merely a weapon as long as the ship. I think the smallest spinals <BR>
in Book 5 are either 1000 or 2000 tons themselves. <BR>
<BR>
> The gun's<BR>
> range was limited due to its short length, but I also gave the ship 9G<BR>
> acceleration<BR>
<BR>
Double heretic! :)<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I've been spending a lot of time in CTStarships lately. I don't know <BR>
how any of the post-CT starship combat rules systems play out, but basically,<BR>
IMO, if it can threaten a battleship (~100Ktons and up), and has no jump <BR>
drive, it could be a battle rider. In HG, nothing under about 15Kt can do <BR>
that.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:14:30 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: GT News<BR>
<BR>
>  So, I saw on the SJG Web  that there is going to be a GURPS Traveller Refs<BR>
>  screen  (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/traveller/gmscreen/), and it will <BR>
come<BR>
>  with a nice little tidbit -<BR>
>  <BR>
>  "And, since every GM needs a tavern to start the adventure off right, <BR>
here's<BR>
>  a poster-sized floor plan for Brubek's, the starport bar . . . and a sheet<BR>
>  of new Cardboard Heroes miniatures showing typical patrons." <BR>
>  <BR>
>  <BR>
>  So whay hasn't anyone else raised some hoopla over this? <BR>
<BR>
Probably because it has nothing to do with near-C rocks or penguins.<BR>
<BR>
> I have desperately<BR>
>  needed some of these!  <BR>
<BR>
Each of the proposed deck plan packets will have a different sheet also.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 01:08:24 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
> Subject: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
It is a small, furry, creatures - with fins. Not many around these<BR>
days, and some do say that they're extinct, but _I_ believe that<BR>
they're hiding somewhere and will come back when they're hungry.<BR>
<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:16:42 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Jon wrote:<BR>
>IIRC this "theory" is mostly taken seriously by young-earth creationists,<BR>
>who would like to "prove" that the universe is in fact only a few thousand<BR>
>years old.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's been debunked by them as well, for a number of reasons. For<BR>
example, it relies heavily on the oldest observations, and the speed variation<BR>
of these in comparison to modern observations falls within the range of<BR>
equipment error.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I can't remember what this type of error is called - instrumental<BR>
error?? Where the free play and movement within the observing instrument is<BR>
enough to throw off the reading significantly? Maybe one our resident chemists<BR>
or astrophysicists or nuclear engineers can remind me of the term?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:27:06 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: So Much For Humour (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101)<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
An apparition labelled "Jeff Rowse" (note the significant quotes) wrote:<BR>
>>I think there could be a fairly homogeneous Traveller  (ie<BR>
>>"interstellar backpacker")  culture.   What  is  its  profile?<BR>
>>What  are  its characteristics?<BR>
><BR>
>They tend to keep a low profile else they get thrown out of starships near<BR>
>Bernard's Star, after listening to abysmal poetry written by giant slugs<BR>
>with 'Personality problems beyond the dreams of analysts'...<BR>
><BR>
>Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, who's seen more than his fair share of<BR>
>Ningies...)<BR>
<BR>
Thus proving that "Jeff Rowse", too, is a figment of someone's imagination...<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
(Well, you _did_ leave yourself wide open...)<BR>
<BR>
BTW, is the list slow at the moment because its US members have _finally_<BR>
started watching the Olympics? Like, I mean, I know NBC is transmitting delayed<BR>
broadcasts... ;-)  Just imagine what it is like trying to broadcast the<BR>
Marches-wide grav-ball competition... but the question is, would MBC - Marches<BR>
Broadcasting Corp - still pay BCr1 for it? ;-) ;-) One wonders what soaps they<BR>
are going to cancel out of next season's budget?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:32:42 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Peter wrote:<BR>
>My vote is for MT.  For format and required data check  out  the<BR>
>weapon sheets put out by DGP in some of the later issues of  the<BR>
>Digest magazine ... as a ref I've found these  damn  handy!<BR>
<BR>
I agree. My apology is that although I've put various battledress and one<BR>
medikit into this format, I haven't yet knocked my blank form into enough of a<BR>
shape to publish it, too. My plan is to also have a weapon form.<BR>
<BR>
The others mentioned are in Beowulf Down ==> Tavonni Specialities ==> Menelvagor<BR>
==> Imported Equipment. Zipped Word docs. With pictures.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:44:48 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Battle Riders<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
>>Does anyone know the displacement rage of Battle Riders? MT's fighting ships<BR>
>>of the Imperium (Not sure if I remember the title right)<BR>
<BR>
Shattered Ships of the Fighting Imperium. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
>> placed the Tenders<BR>
>>displacement under those of the BH line, with the Battle Riders displacing<BR>
>>about 30,000 tons. However, TNE's Battle Rider game gives Battle Riders<BR>
>>combat capabilities superiour to the Voloshief (sp?) class, and again IIRC,<BR>
>>at least equal to the Sylea class.<BR>
><BR>
>A battle rider is simply a carried large craft. You could even make an<BR>
>argument that fighters are battle riders.<BR>
<BR>
Except that fighters are not large craft. Usually.<BR>
<BR>
I think that most battle riders designs should or would start out with the main<BR>
weapon system - that is, a spinal mount - and design the rest of the ship around<BR>
it. This means that if you want a factor-T M-gun, you'll need at least 30,000t<BR>
to carry it.<BR>
<BR>
The _Bonaventure_, on my pages (Specialities ==> Lone Scout Enterprises) was<BR>
built specifically around the smallest M-gun spinal mount, the factor-E. The<BR>
ship is nearly 13,000 tons displacement, but could be smaller if the j-drive was<BR>
deleted. Removing the j-drive and associated fuel requirements makes for much<BR>
smaller riders. However, too small and you receive too many crits from large<BR>
spinals. "Fuel Tanks Shattered" is a mission-kill, and a statistical result, as<BR>
was pointed out MANY moons ago (JTAS 17??). YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
>I have seen Mr. Avendoo playing around with some designs with 300 ton battle<BR>
>riders, While Mr. Pinkly seems to favor massively large battle riders with<BR>
>flourishes and wood paneling.<BR>
<BR>
And gold taps. Don't forget the gold taps.<BR>
<BR>
It must be Friday (Thursday in the US - "never could get the hang of Thursday in<BR>
the US...").<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:19:48 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Roc: Colour of Logoes<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Jeff Rowse <jeffrowse@hotmail.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 5:14:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail "Tod Glenn" asked:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Does anyone know if there exists color graphics of the megacorp logos?<BR>
I'd<BR>
> >like to add the megacorp logos to my traveller graphics web page<BR>
> >(http://www.travellercentral.com), and if not, get a color scheme to<BR>
create<BR>
> >color logos based on the pics in the various Traveller resources.<BR>
> ><BR>
> Didn't someone declare the Imperial Sunburst would be black-on-white 'cos<BR>
> some minor race saw in the Infra-Red waveband and thought the flag was<BR>
> blank?  Would the (Imperial-licenced) MegaCorps follow the same line or<BR>
> would they be happy to go unnoticed on some planets?<BR>
> ObTrav:<BR>
> "Whose ship was it you say passed dangerously close on approach?"<BR>
> "Don't know,officer, I didn't see a flag..."<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I don't think I've been on the TML long enough to hear that, but it does<BR>
strike a cord - I have definitely heard that somewhere... an old JTAS<BR>
perhaps?  Someone's website?  B&W isn't that pretty, but in these cases,<BR>
it's functional.<BR>
<BR>
However, can an additive be put into coloured paints to make them visible to<BR>
such races?  They don't see the colour, but the additive shows the logo in<BR>
the range they can see? (Being a "game," I suppose that could be a gimme<BR>
anyway??)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:12:16 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0<BR>
<BR>
Trent wrote:<BR>
>IIRC, when M0 was written, the designers (most of whom were on this list at <BR>
>the time, and still may be, lurking) made up their own map of Core sector <BR>
>(which is what the text refers to) and then, right before publication, the <BR>
>map was switched for the one from First Survey (basically a computer <BR>
>printout which Marc Miller seems to have spent about 15 minutes <BR>
>proofreading, tops).  Thus, the map in M0 not only is largely nonsensical <BR>
>(and random in the worst way), it doesn't even match the rest of the book.  <BR>
>I think the extra pages in 'M0 Campaign' may have tried to explain away <BR>
>(rather than correct) some of these mistakes and errors, but I didn't buy <BR>
>that book, so I'm not sure (note also that those 32 extra pages were the <BR>
>only difference between the two editions -- all errors (even typos) from M0 <BR>
>and FS were carried directly over into M0 Campaign, with no re-editing or <BR>
>proofing whatsoever).<BR>
><snip><BR>
>Trent<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I like T4. I know that I'm almost alone in this, but I like it. My biggest <BR>
problem with it is Milieu 0. Without the information provided above, the <BR>
sourcebook, once you've made it to page 103, is incomprehensible.<BR>
<BR>
What I can't understand about M0 is that the book spends 93 pages detailing <BR>
the history and inner workings of the fledgling 3i just to dump you with a <BR>
map from -650! (This date is estimated due to the fact that the Federation <BR>
is very small - too small to have contacted the Vilani Confederation!)<BR>
<BR>
If anyone could point me to an _accurate_ map, I really appreciate it. <BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:22:29 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for forms....<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2000 7:41:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for forms....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> >Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 17:34:26 -0700<BR>
> >From: "Erik Shumaker" <attendolo@hotmail.com><BR>
> >Subject: Looking for forms....<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I am looking for pseudo-official looking forms for the campaign that I am<BR>
> >running. Does anyone know of any traveller forms that I can use as a<BR>
> >watermark on some "Official" documents from the Imperium to the players?<BR>
><BR>
> The second CT Reprints book from Far Futures includes Supplement 12, Forms<BR>
> and Records, which is just what it sounds like: a book of nothing but<BR>
blank<BR>
> forms of all types.<BR>
<BR>
Including military and some corporate ID cards - depending upon what you are<BR>
looking for... and harking to another thread, they are only in B&W - for the<BR>
wave-length reason perhaps? (I know, they were only done in black for<BR>
printing reasons ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:28:13 -0400<BR>
From: "Axel" <axel@arvotek.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
Date sent:      	Thu, 28 Sep 2000 12:08:16 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 22:35:58 -0700<BR>
> From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu><BR>
> Subject: Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
> <BR>
> Does anyone know the displacement rage of Battle Riders? MT's fighting ships<BR>
> of the Imperium (Not sure if I remember the title right) placed the Tenders<BR>
> displacement under those of the BH line, with the Battle Riders displacing<BR>
> about 30,000 tons. However, TNE's Battle Rider game gives Battle Riders<BR>
> combat capabilities superiour to the Voloshief (sp?) class, and again IIRC,<BR>
> at least equal to the Sylea class.<BR>
<BR>
According to CT: Supplement 9 (Fighting Ships), p.9<BR>
<BR>
A battle rider is a non-jump capable capital ship carried on a large <BR>
(up to one million ton) fleet tender. Such a tender carries a <BR>
complete Battle Squadron (BatRon) of from six to eight vessels.<BR>
<BR>
Which means a Battle rider should be a battleship sized vessel.<BR>
<BR>
Since the largest cruiser in Fighting Ships weighs in at 75 000 tons, <BR>
I would assume a Battle Rider would have to be at least 100 000 tons.<BR>
<BR>
However, a fleet tender is essentially a big fuel tank (with a jump <BR>
drive in the corner) and the Imperial Navy is jump 4, the largest <BR>
(1 000 000 ton) tenders could only carry 6 133 000 ton vessels <BR>
(however since CT naval vessels are 40% jump fuel that puts them at <BR>
the equivalent of a 250 000 ton dreadnaught.<BR>
<BR>
So one Battle Rider should be able to defeat a Plankwell, but there <BR>
are no Tigress busting BR's.<BR>
- -<BR>
Axel...                                        ...Callisti<BR>
Hail Eris...                         ...All Hail Discordia<BR>
<BR>
<axel@arvotek.net><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:36:09 -0400<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Ground Forces (Was Re: tml low message volume?)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 15:02:26<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: tml low message volume?<BR>
> <BR>
> At 11:28 AM 9/27/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >SJG is still not listing GF, even though they've got other titles for<BR>
> >October.  You not just shining us on, are you <grin>?  BTW, Did you get the<BR>
> >Gridlore graphic?  Any other files you like done?<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm just a humble author, all I know is what the web page tells me.  I was<BR>
> last told October, but that was subject to change.  Perhaps Loren could<BR>
> fill us in.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	It is on the SJGames What's new page for October. It's at the very<BR>
bottom, and hard to spot because there is no cover picture with it.<BR>
(Damn it Jessie, flog the hamster in your computer to go faster). Given<BR>
the publishing schedule I've seen, I'd guess GF will "publish" in about<BR>
a month, and be around a week or two later. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:57:44 -0400<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:24:16 -0700<BR>
> From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
> Subject: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
> <BR>
> Greetings all.<BR>
> <BR>
> After a long hiatus, I will be plunging back into work on the "Mercenaries<BR>
> Guide to Weapons" (http://www.travellerguns.com).<BR>
> <BR>
> My question for the list is:<BR>
> <BR>
> What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.  Are there any<BR>
> conversion guides for moving designs to GT?<BR>
> <BR>
	There is a G3G to Gurps conversion in the back of G3G, but from my<BR>
experience, the numbers don't map well to the Gurps system. The best way<BR>
may to get Gurps High Tech (aka Gurps Guns), build all the weapons with<BR>
your spreadsheet, and build a conversion from there. <BR>
	I'd volunteer, really, except I know nothing about guns and don't have<BR>
High Tech. But if you have a spreadsheet or rules system, I'd be happy<BR>
to try.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Right now I generate muzzle energy, cartridge dimensions, weapon length and<BR>
> mass and a variety of other data of interest only to gun hyper-gearheads.<BR>
> <BR>
> Being a CT ref, I'm not really familiar with MT, T4 or CT weapons design.  I<BR>
> know that T4 uses energy to determine damage.  What data is useful for<BR>
> conversion of a given weapon into your favorite Traveller version?<BR>
> <BR>
	I'd also like Gurps/GT, and willing to help.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3105<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3106</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/29/00 3:42:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 29 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3106<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
RE: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
Re: Courtesy vs. Curtsy<BR>
Re: What is a Parsec?<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: 1 parsec<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3105<BR>
Re: Speed of LIght<BR>
RE: Jump speed<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
Re: Courtesy vs. Curtsy<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3105<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Milieu 0<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101<BR>
Re: Jump speed.<BR>
Re: What is a Parsec?<BR>
Re: Looking for forms....<BR>
Re: ah, Tod, yes, i have a question...<BR>
Re: 1 ParSec<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:20:08 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>Subject: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
...<BR>
>My theory about Jump Space is that there is actually some sort of parallel<BR>
>universe, full of all sorts of interesting things, through which you travel<BR>
>while in Jump. So if you are one of those Scientists like MegaTraveller lets<BR>
>you generate, with skills like Physics-8, you should be able to invent some<BR>
>sort of technology to adjust your "oscillation overthruster phase" (or<BR>
>whatever) so that you can enter this parallel universe. This could be the<BR>
>basis for some extremely interesting adventures.<BR>
<BR>
  You would, of course, need to drive the car in which the oscillation <BR>
overthruster was installed through a suitable mountain in the desert...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 19:40:42 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 17:23:09 +0100<BR>
> From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
> <BR>
> AU = Astronomical Unit = Mean value of Earth's Orbit.<BR>
<BR>
That is, of Earth's orbital radius.  Approximately 93 million miles, or<BR>
150 Gm.<BR>
<BR>
> Parallax = relative change of position of a stationary (relatively<BR>
> speaking...) object against the background caused by viewing it from a<BR>
> different position.<BR>
> <BR>
> 1 second [of arc] = 1/3600th of a degree.<BR>
> <BR>
> So if an object in space shows an apparent motion of 1 Second against<BR>
> the background stars due to the Earth moving to the far side of it's<BR>
> orbit, then the baseline is 2AU (diameter of Earth's Orbit), and simple<BR>
> trigonometry provides the distance to the object as 3.26 light years.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thus a parallax (PAR) of 1 second (SEC) is 3.26 ly (PARSEC)<BR>
<BR>
Note that the AU was chosen as a unit of astronomical measure before its<BR>
value was known with much precision, and that it was exactly *because* of<BR>
this lack of precision that the AU was useful.  It turns out that using<BR>
geometry, it's relatively easy to work out the relative orbital radii of<BR>
bodies in the solar system; you can e.g. determine that Venus orbits at a<BR>
mean distance approximately 70% of our own, or Saturn at ten times our<BR>
own.  What's much harder to do is to determine the absolute scale -- that<BR>
is, how far are we from the sun in meters?<BR>
<BR>
So you end up in a situation in which a lot of ratios of other distances<BR>
to the mean orbital distance of Earth are known a lot more precisely than<BR>
that distance.  Now, in such a situation, if you put "Venus is 65,xxx,xxx<BR>
miles from the sun", you'll have to keep updating the number every time<BR>
someone refines our value for the Earth's mean orbital distance.  If you<BR>
instead say it is 0.7xxxx AU from the sun, you can let the reader multiply<BR>
it by the current best value of the AU if she needs to (and often all you<BR>
really need is the ratio, anyway). <BR>
<BR>
Of course, the parsec was used for precisely this reason; our distance<BR>
estimates are geometric, with precision limited by the precision of the<BR>
AU.  Recording the distance in parsecs means that the tabulated distance<BR>
automatically gets more accurate as the AU is refined.<BR>
<BR>
It happens that toward the latter part of the twentieth century, we<BR>
finally determined the absolute distance of an AU pretty darn accurately.<BR>
But professional astronomers still talk in AUs and parsecs.  You'll very<BR>
seldom hear a pro mention 'light years' when she's not talking down to a<BR>
bunch of gawking tourists. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:34:07 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Axel [mailto:axel@arvotek.net]<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Which means a Battle rider should be a battleship sized vessel.<BR>
> <BR>
No problems, the Kininur class Battlecruiser was 1250 Tons, so we have a<BR>
lower range for Battleriders.  ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:41:10 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Courtesy vs. Curtsy<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:28:13 -0400<BR>
>From: "Axel" <axel@arvotek.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
>Axel...                                        ...Callisti<BR>
>Hail Eris...                         ...All Hail Discordia<BR>
<BR>
Hey, Eris! [Paging Eris the Heretic to the Polychromatic Curtsy Phone.]<BR>
<BR>
It looks as if you have a fan club. Heretics United May Bring Universal<BR>
Goodness, maybe?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:07:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:48:11 +0100<BR>
> From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
> <BR>
> Essentially: 1 parsec = tan(8959'59") AU.<BR>
> That's roughly 206,264.7897 AU.<<<<BR>
> <BR>
> OK I can understand that 1 parsec equals the distance a star moves, in<BR>
> relation to the stars that are so far away. That their movement is<BR>
> negligable, so that you can measure an angle of one sec. This distance then<BR>
> equaling 1 parsec.<BR>
> Where do you get              tan(8959'59") AU ?<BR>
<BR>
OK, stand by for bad ascii art.<BR>
<BR>
    E...........<BR>
    |           ...................<BR>
  1 AU                             .............<BR>
    |                                            .........<BR>
    Sun----------------------- d ------------------(------ Star<BR>
                                                  theta<BR>
<BR>
E is one of the observing positions; you can visualize the other half of<BR>
the diagram as a mirror-image below what I've shown, but by convention<BR>
parallax is based on a 1 AU baseline and a half-angle measure.  Call the<BR>
angle between Star -> E1 and Star -> E2 theta; for 1 parsec, it will be 1"<BR>
(1 second of arc).  So we proceed: <BR>
<BR>
  tan theta = 1 AU / d         (from simple trig)<BR>
  d = 1 AU / tan theta         (rearranging)<BR>
  d = 1 AU * tan (90 - theta)  (tan theta = 1 / tan(90 - theta)<BR>
<BR>
...which leads to the large number of AUs in a parsec given above.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:19:52 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:55:46 +0100<BR>
> From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
<BR>
> This giving a realative velocity for a jump-1 ship at 169 times the<BR>
> speed of light. <BR>
<BR>
Which has the pokiest ships in Traveller cruising along at well over Warp<BR>
5 according to the old fannish warp equation (WF = (v/c)^1/3).  Take that,<BR>
trekkers. :)<BR>
<BR>
It's easy to lose track of how fast Traveller ships really are; we tend to<BR>
concentrate on how slow they are compared to the much-desired<BR>
instantaneous transport, or at least communication.  I actually ran a game<BR>
in college which I'd set up to drive this point home, though alas the game<BR>
didn't last long enough.  The players got involved in evacuating (and, ah,<BR>
performing, um, salvage operations on) a world whose star was about to<BR>
suffer a sub-nova 'burp' that would increase its luminosity an order of<BR>
magnitude or so for most of a year.  I had planned to maneuver them back<BR>
into the neighborhood three game-time years later, and have them encounter<BR>
the residents of a world one jump away just enjoying the show in their<BR>
evening sky.  My players never got to experience this, but the image has<BR>
stayed with me ever since.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 04:35:24 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
<BR>
OK I have bee looking over this and have noticed another thing that I missed<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
 1 second [of arc] = 1/3600th of a degree.<BR>
<<<BR>
<BR>
so 1 parsec(in light minutes) = 2AU (which is may also be said to be 16.6<BR>
light minutes) / tan of 1 sec ( which may also be written as, 1/1296000)<BR>
<BR>
Which I make out to be 21513600 light minutes.<BR>
To make this light years, divide by (60*24*365.25), which is 525960 to get<BR>
40.90349076 light years... which is nothing like 3.26 light ears which was<BR>
earlier stated.<BR>
<BR>
could someone please explain?<BR>
<BR>
Thankyou<BR>
<BR>
Mike....... the confused.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:46:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3105<BR>
<BR>
>1 ParSec<BR>
>I have done my math and get the following.<BR>
>that if the base is 2AU and the angle of displacement is 1 sec then 1 parsec<BR>
>should be 2AU /tan(1sec) which equals something more like 4/5 ths of a light<BR>
>year.<BR>
1 parsec = 1 AU/tan(1 sec) - it's actually defined with a base of one second -<BR>
which is 206,000 AU or so, 3.26 ly.<BR>
<BR>
I should note that astronomers never use lightyears professionally - only<BR>
parsecs.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:51:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Speed of LIght<BR>
<BR>
>>Why would<BR>
>>mass have to be moved faster than the speed of light?<BR>
>I don't know. It's something that I found on a NASA website.<BR>
<BR>
I suspect this must be from a badly-written press release.<BR>
<BR>
If you really want to know, see Ned Wright's cosmology tutorial at<BR>
http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/cosmolog.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:26:01 +1000<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Craig Berry [mailto:cberry@cinenet.net]<BR>
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 1:20 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> > Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:55:46 +0100<BR>
> > From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
> <BR>
> > This giving a realative velocity for a jump-1 ship at 169 times the<BR>
> > speed of light. <BR>
> <BR>
> Which has the pokiest ships in Traveller cruising along at <BR>
> well over Warp<BR>
> 5 according to the old fannish warp equation (WF = <BR>
> (v/c)^1/3).  Take that,<BR>
> trekkers. :)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
That places jump 4 (average warship jump), at around warp 8.7, and jump<BR>
6 at warp 10.05<BR>
<BR>
I am thinking of having an adventure that is a form of 'dimensional<BR>
crossover', where the command crew of a traveller warship meet up with a<BR>
'Trek' starship. I was thinking of getting them into conflict with each<BR>
other, but any way I looked at it, the 'Trek' ship would paste the<BR>
traveller ship. <BR>
<BR>
Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:02:19 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Sorry, but the length of a parsec has no relation whatsoever to the<BR>
> speed of light. It's based on the AU, which is based on the size of<BR>
> Earth's orbit.<BR>
><BR>
> A parsec is the distance at which the position of a star against the<BR>
> more distant stars shifts by one second of arc (a parallax of 1 second)<BR>
> when viewed from opposite sides of Earth's orbit.<BR>
><BR>
> Essentially: 1 parsec =3D tan(89=F859'59") AU.<BR>
> That's roughly 206,264.7897 AU.<BR>
><BR>
>> Sorry I don't know what AU means.... what does it stand for. I ask<BR>
>> this as I don't really know what a pasec is relative to any fixed<BR>
>> distance...  I'd like to know, that is why I ask.<BR>
<BR>
AU = Astronomical Unit = 1.49597870e11 m (149,597,870 km)<BR>
<BR>
As I noted above (but not very clearly) an AU is the average radius of<BR>
Earth's orbit. <BR>
<BR>
Checking in the CRC handbook, I see that they now list the AU as a<BR>
derived constant, with the "primary constant" being that an AU is<BR>
499.04782 light seconds.<BR>
<BR>
But in either case, it's still based on the size of Earth's orbit. <BR>
<BR>
Anyway, for quick & dirty calculations, an AU is 150 million km, and a<BR>
parsec is 200 thousand AU. <BR>
<BR>
The reason for the AU was that for a long time it was hard to measure<BR>
interplanetary distances in "absolute" terms (ie so many miles or<BR>
kilometers). But it was fairly *easy* to measdure them in terms of<BR>
ratios of orbit sizes.<BR>
<BR>
So they set the radius of Earth's orbit to "1 AU" and listed the rest<BR>
of the distances in the solar system in terms of that. <BR>
<BR>
As I recall, it wasn't until the 1950s that they were able to get any<BR>
*real* measurements of the distance (by bouncing radar pulses off some<BR>
of the nearer planets). Before that, the best "scale" they had was<BR>
based on the time differences in *observed* eclipses of Jupiter's moons<BR>
(due to speed of light lag, we see them sooner when Jupiter is near the<BR>
Earth than when it's farther away)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:13:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> michael.scanlon wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>><BR>
>> Sorry I don't know what AU means.... what does it stand for. I ask this as <BR>
> I<BR>
>> don't really know what a pasec is relative to any fixed distance...<BR>
>> I'd like to know, that is why I ask.<BR>
><BR>
> Per the Encyclopaedia Britannica:<BR>
><BR>
> "length of the semi-major axis of the Earth to<BR>
>   the Sun, the value of which is 149,597,870 km<BR>
>   (92,955,808 miles). It also is often defined simply<BR>
>   as the average distance from the Earth to the<BR>
>   Sun. "<BR>
><BR>
> It's a unit of convenience among astronomers, it's easier to say 'Its<BR>
> 12.2 AU' instead of 'Eleventy kajillion miles' ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Actually, as I detail in another post, it's used for historical<BR>
reasons. Relative distances were easy to determine. That is, it was<BR>
easy to say "The orbit of Mars has a radius 1.6 times the radius of<BR>
Earth's orbit.". But determining the actual distances was a lot harder.<BR>
<BR>
So, "The orbit of Mars has a radius 1.6 times the radius of Earth's<BR>
orbit." became "Mars's orbit has a radius of 1.6 AU."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:25:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, it's been debunked by them as well, for a number of reasons. For<BR>
> example, it relies heavily on the oldest observations, and the speed <BR>
> variation<BR>
> of these in comparison to modern observations falls within the range of<BR>
> equipment error.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, I can't remember what this type of error is called - instrumental<BR>
> error?? Where the free play and movement within the observing instrument is<BR>
> enough to throw off the reading significantly? Maybe one our resident <BR>
> chemists<BR>
> or astrophysicists or nuclear engineers can remind me of the term?<BR>
<BR>
Probably "instrumental error".<BR>
<BR>
But one of the "gotchas" one that earliest *estimate* (it can't<BR>
*remotely* be called a measurement) of the speed of light is that it<BR>
was measured with a *clock*, and that it was measured in terms of<BR>
"minutes per AU". <BR>
<BR>
What had happened was that they'd gotten to the point where they could<BR>
accurately predict things like the eclipses of Jupiter's moons (well,<BR>
actually, when they crossed in front of or behind jupiter as seen from<BR>
Earth). <BR>
<BR>
The problem was that they were getting errors of up to 15+ minutes. <BR>
<BR>
An astronomer finally suggested that this was due to the variation in<BR>
distance between the earth and Jupiter. Which varied by 2 AU over the<BR>
course of a year. <BR>
<BR>
So he got a value of about 500 seconds per AU for the speed of light.<BR>
<BR>
The figure these guys are quoting though is in miles per second. Which<BR>
he calculated based on the then current *estimate* of the size of the<BR>
AU. Which was off by around 5%....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:56:56 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Courtesy vs. Curtsy<BR>
<BR>
On 09/28/00 at 10:41 PM,  Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 21:28:13 -0400<BR>
>>From: "Axel" <axel@arvotek.net><BR>
>>Subject: Re: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
>>Axel...                                        ...Callisti<BR>
>>Hail Eris...                         ...All Hail Discordia<BR>
<BR>
>Hey, Eris! [Paging Eris the Heretic to the Polychromatic Curtsy<BR>
>Phone.]<BR>
<BR>
>It looks as if you have a fan club. Heretics United May Bring<BR>
>Universal Goodness, maybe?<BR>
<BR>
I noticed, but decided to capriciously ignore it. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 07:45:39 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3105<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 4:46 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3105<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>1 ParSec<BR>
>I have done my math and get the following.<BR>
>that if the base is 2AU and the angle of displacement is 1 sec then 1<BR>
parsec<BR>
>should be 2AU /tan(1sec) which equals something more like 4/5 ths of a<BR>
light<BR>
>year.<BR>
1 parsec = 1 AU/tan(1 sec) - it's actually defined with a base of one<BR>
second -<BR>
which is 206,000 AU or so, 3.26 ly.<BR>
<<<BR>
OK so what do you mean by the base of one second?<BR>
As from the above, I calculate<BR>
<BR>
I now get, 1AU/ tan (1sec) to equal something like 3.26 light years....<BR>
... which would mean that  the relative velocity of a Jump-1 ship would be<BR>
169 times the speed of light, whist in Jump space.<BR>
<BR>
Thankyou<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:27:11 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
<BR>
>Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Spinal Mounts, Meson Guns, PAWs, Fusion Guns, Plasma Guns, Black Globe,<BR>
Stealth, lots & lots & lots of missiles, good point defense.  *weg*  Ask me<BR>
about how I know all of this sometime.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:21:44 +1200<BR>
From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" <a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Milieu 0<BR>
<BR>
On 28 Sep 00, at 20:12, James Jensen wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I like T4. I know that I'm almost alone in this, but I like it. My biggest<BR>
> problem with it is Milieu 0. Without the information provided above, the<BR>
> sourcebook, once you've made it to page 103, is incomprehensible.<BR>
<BR>
You are not alone, there are a dedicated bunch who like T4. When you add <BR>
the modifications in the draft of T5 it gets even better.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:34:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:<BR>
> "Whose ship was it you say passed dangerously close on approach?"<BR>
> "Don't know,officer, I didn't see a flag..."<BR>
<BR>
SF movies and TV programs notwithstanding, ships in space will only be<BR>
close enough to see each other in *telescopes*, never mind reading<BR>
markings, only during rendezvous manuevers. And even in the rare cases<BR>
they *do* pass close enough, they'll usually zip past too fast to see<BR>
any details. <BR>
<BR>
1000 km is a *close* approach. And 10 km/sec is a *low* velocity. At<BR>
that velocity, a ship covers 1000 km in 100 seconds. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:52:03 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thursday, September 28, 2000 2:10 PM<BR>
> michael.scanlon said,<BR>
><BR>
>> a JUMP-1 ship actualy travels a mean average speed of 169.52 light<BR>
> years per<BR>
>> week, from one planetary system to the next.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course since a Jump ship isn't traveling through normal space it<BR>
> never actually gets to this speed.  It's normal space speed is always<BR>
> well below C.<BR>
<BR>
Except that all those nice paradoxes don't care *how* you got from<BR>
point A to point B, just that you did so faster than light could make<BR>
the same trip.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:58:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Subject: What is a Parsec?<BR>
<BR>
> A parsec is the distance at which the position of a star against the<BR>
> more distant stars shifts by one second of arc (a parallax of 1 second)<BR>
> when viewed from opposite sides of Earth's orbit.<BR>
><BR>
> Essentially: 1 parsec =3D tan(89=F859'59") AU.<BR>
> That's roughly 206,264.7897 AU.<<<<BR>
><BR>
> OK I can understand that 1 parsec equals the distance a star moves, in<BR>
> relation to the stars that are so far away. That their movement is<BR>
> negligable, so that you can measure an angle of one sec. This distance then<BR>
> equaling 1 parsec.<BR>
> Where do you get              tan(89=F859'59") AU ?<BR>
<BR>
From the triangle involved. You have a right triangle with the Sun at<BR>
the right angle, and the Earth and the other star at the other two<BR>
angles. Angle at the star is 1 second of arc. Since the angles of a<BR>
triangle *must* add up to 180 degrees, we figure like this:<BR>
<BR>
Sun   90 degrees<BR>
Star   0 deg, 0 min, 1 sec<BR>
<BR>
That leaves 89 degrees, 59 minutes, 59 seconds for the angle at Earth. <BR>
<BR>
The length of the Sun-Earth line is 1 AU. The the length of the<BR>
Sun-star line is (by definition) the tangent of the angle at Earth.<BR>
That is tan(89 deg, 59 min, 59 sec)<BR>
<BR>
You see tangent is *defined* as the ratio of those two sides of a right<BR>
triangle...<BR>
<BR>
ps. just in case you weren't aware, each degree of angle has 60 minutes<BR>
of angle. And each minute of angle is divided into 60 seconds.<BR>
<BR>
' is used for minutes of angle<BR>
" is used for seconds of angle<BR>
And you know the degree symbol (sort of a superscript 0). Alas, it's<BR>
different in different character sets, and that might have confused<BR>
things. it's  in my character set.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:44:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Looking for forms....<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> GT: Far Trader has a few forms in the back, updated from Supplement 12 for<BR>
> GT. I have these in their original form (MS Access -- don't ask why), and I<BR>
> may have a binary (.jpg or .gif) version somewhere.<BR>
<BR>
PDF would be nice...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:47:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: ah, Tod, yes, i have a question...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> do u have insight into how the Striker values for primary, secondary, and<BR>
> tertiary blast Radii for nukes were arrived at?  and how about the<BR>
> penetration value in various zones?  I posted the question to the trav-tech<BR>
> group, but collectively, we are mysteriously silent on the matter...i'm<BR>
> guessing the qrc server is doing it's own thing again...:-(<BR>
<BR>
I saw the post, but didn't reply because I've got *no* idea how they<BR>
did it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:15:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 1 ParSec<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I have done my math and get the following.<BR>
><BR>
> that if the base is 2AU and the angle of displacement is 1 sec then 1 parsec<BR>
> should be 2AU /tan(1sec) which equals something more like 4/5 ths of a light<BR>
> year.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. *1* AU times the *cotangent* of 1 second.<BR>
<BR>
Some useful trigonometric identities:<BR>
<BR>
cos(A) = sin(90-A)<BR>
cot(A) = tan(90-A)<BR>
cot(a) = 1/tan(a)<BR>
<BR>
replace 90 with pi/2 if you are using radians.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3106<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3107</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/29/00 9:10:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 29 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3107<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: 1 parsec<BR>
Re: Roc: Colour of Logoes<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Ground Forces (Was Re: tml low message volume?)<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
RE: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
Re:Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format <BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
RE: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
10 Commandments of DMing<BR>
Re: 1 parsec<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3106<BR>
Re: 1 parsec<BR>
RE: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Quizzes lead to punning and the harder stuff<BR>
Solaris<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:22:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> That places jump 4 (average warship jump), at around warp 8.7, and jump<BR>
> 6 at warp 10.05<BR>
><BR>
> I am thinking of having an adventure that is a form of 'dimensional<BR>
> crossover', where the command crew of a traveller warship meet up with a<BR>
> 'Trek' starship. I was thinking of getting them into conflict with each<BR>
> other, but any way I looked at it, the 'Trek' ship would paste the<BR>
> traveller ship. <BR>
<BR>
Not really. Trek ships are more or less "in normal space" while going<BR>
FTL (otherwise they'd never have found Khan's ship). Traveller ships<BR>
are in Jump space, which Trek ships can't get to. <BR>
<BR>
"Sensors report a spatial anomaly at the position of the target,<BR>
 Captain. the ship is no longer there."<BR>
"Could it be cloaked?"<BR>
"No, sir. The gravity and energy signature are consitent with a ship<BR>
 leaving this spacetime for a different one."<BR>
<BR>
> Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
<BR>
See above.<BR>
<BR>
I want to see the Trek folks in the Lensman universe. <BR>
<BR>
"Sir, there is a ship approaching at warp 137...."<BR>
<BR>
(or warp 19 using the TNG "rule" of (v/c)^(1/5) :-)<BR>
<BR>
"Correction... there is a *planet* approaching at warp 137..."<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 00:33:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> OK I have bee looking over this and have noticed another thing that I missed<BR>
><BR>
>>><BR>
>  1 second [of arc] = 1/3600th of a degree.<BR>
> <<<BR>
><BR>
> so 1 parsec(in light minutes) = 2AU light minutes) / tan of 1 sec<BR>
> ( which may also be written as, 1/1296000)<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Light minutes have *nothing* to do with it. <BR>
<BR>
The length of the side of the triangle oppsite the star (1 AU) is<BR>
divided by the tangent of the angle at the star (1/3600 of a degree)<BR>
which gives the length of the "adjacent side" (line from the star to<BR>
the sun).<BR>
<BR>
The "opposite side" is 1 AU long. So, the length of the "adjacent side"<BR>
will be in AU.<BR>
<BR>
1 parsec = 1 / tan(1/3600) <BR>
1 parsec = 1 / (4.848136811e-6)<BR>
1 parsec = 206,264.8<BR>
<BR>
So a parsec is 206,264.8 AU. <BR>
<BR>
An AU is about 499 light *seconds*. So a parsec is about 102,927,125<BR>
light seconds. That's 1,715,452 light minutes, or 28,591 light hours,<BR>
or 1191 light days or about 3.26 light years (don't forget that a year<BR>
is 365.2425 days long...:-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:20:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Roc: Colour of Logoes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Didn't someone declare the Imperial Sunburst would be black-on-white 'cos<BR>
>> some minor race saw in the Infra-Red waveband and thought the flag was<BR>
>> blank?  Would the (Imperial-licenced) MegaCorps follow the same line or<BR>
>> would they be happy to go unnoticed on some planets?<BR>
<BR>
> I don't think I've been on the TML long enough to hear that, but it does<BR>
> strike a cord - I have definitely heard that somewhere... an old JTAS<BR>
> perhaps?  Someone's website?  B&W isn't that pretty, but in these cases,<BR>
> it's functional.<BR>
><BR>
> However, can an additive be put into coloured paints to make them visible to<BR>
> such races?  They don't see the colour, but the additive shows the logo in<BR>
> the range they can see? (Being a "game," I suppose that could be a gimme<BR>
> anyway??)<BR>
<BR>
Yes, but you have to keep in mind that "color" is a sensation.<BR>
Different types of eye will see different colors. So will "similar"<BR>
eyes set up for differing visual ranges. <BR>
<BR>
In IR, leaves are what would be *red* (ie the bottom seventh of the<BR>
visible spectrum)<BR>
<BR>
Basicly, when dealing with alien with visual ranges that overlap ours,<BR>
we can "agree" on the colors in the range that overlaps. But we'd best<BR>
use their names for the colors we can't see.<BR>
<BR>
There are good reasons to not expect any species to have a visual range<BR>
that spans more than an "octave" (doubling of frequency).<BR>
<BR>
We see this spectrum:<BR>
<BR>
	| red <BR>
<BR>
They may see:<BR>
<BR>
        | mlap | red | orange | yellow | green | blue | indigo |<BR>
<BR>
Bees see:<BR>
<BR>
	| orange | yellow | green | blue | indigo | violet | ???? |<BR>
<BR>
Where ??? is low frequency UV.<BR>
<BR>
Some aliens might see that range also. Or there could be even less<BR>
overlap. Or none at all (though that's *real* unlikely).<BR>
<BR>
But getting back to that bit about leaves being *red* in IR. A lot of<BR>
things *do* have marked colors in IR or UV. Colors we never notice. <BR>
<BR>
So colors and aliens get *real* complicated...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:51:45 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:55:46 +0100<BR>
>> From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
><BR>
>> This giving a realative velocity for a jump-1 ship at 169 times the<BR>
>> speed of light. <BR>
><BR>
> Which has the pokiest ships in Traveller cruising along at well over Warp<BR>
> 5 according to the old fannish warp equation (WF = (v/c)^1/3).  Take that,<BR>
> trekkers. :)<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but consider this:<BR>
<BR>
        ST:OS		ST:TNG (v/c)^(1/5)<BR>
        ---------	-------------------<BR>
J1	warp 5.53	warp 2.79<BR>
J2	warp 6.97	warp 3.21<BR>
J3	warp 7.98	warp 3.48<BR>
J4	warp 8.79	warp 3.68<BR>
J5	warp 9.46	warp 3.85<BR>
J6	warp 10.1	warp 3.99<BR>
J7	warp 10.6	warp 4.12<BR>
J8	warp 11.1	warp 4.23<BR>
J9	warp 11.5	warp 4.33<BR>
J10	warp 11.9	warp 4.42<BR>
J11	warp 12.3	warp 4.51<BR>
J12	warp 12.7	warp 4.59<BR>
<BR>
So while we start out faster, we don't get faster as fast. <BR>
<BR>
Of course, we're *really* pikers compared with the old Lensman stories.<BR>
A typical ship in those cruised at 60 parsecs an *hour* and had a top<BR>
speed of around 90! That's around 2.6 *million* times the speed of<BR>
light if I haven't dropped a decimal.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 23:14:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ground Forces (Was Re: tml low message volume?)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> (Damn it Jessie, flog the hamster in your computer to go faster).<BR>
<BR>
Jessie's got a *hamster*?! Gee, all I have are these ants.... <eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:31:57 +0300<BR>
From: Antti Lahtinen <lahtinen@ee.tut.fi><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
 > What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.<BR>
<BR>
	I would highly prefer real-life values. Preferably in roughly<BR>
	similar format as used "Jane's Gun Recognition Guide" or in H&K<BR>
	weapon reports.<BR>
<BR>
	The weapon stats should include a short description written in<BR>
	"International English" and weapon stats should be in SI units.<BR>
	Game stats (such as Damage, Penetration and Range) for various<BR>
	game systems could follow the real-life values.<BR>
<BR>
	Some weapons in http://www.travellerguns.com/ appear to be based<BR>
	on real-life weapons, while some are more or less fictional. I<BR>
	would prefer a small note on each design to indicate wether of<BR>
	not they are based on existing technology (there appear to be<BR>
	some quite rare real-life images on this web site).<BR>
<BR>
	Note: The weapon terminology used in "International English" is<BR>
	slightly different than that used with "US English" for example,<BR>
	"International English" terminology prefers the term "self loading"<BR>
	instead of "semi automatic" since "semi automatic" can mean two<BR>
	completely different mechanisms.<BR>
- --<BR>
       Antti Lahtinen                lahtinen@ee.tut.fi<BR>
       Researcher, MSc (Eng)         http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:25:19 +0100<BR>
From: Matt Bond <MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Battle Riders (Was Zhodani Fleet Question)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Paul Harris [mailto:paul.harris@dytech.com.au]<BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: Axel [mailto:axel@arvotek.net]<BR>
> > Which means a Battle rider should be a battleship sized vessel.<BR>
> > <BR>
> No problems, the Kininur class Battlecruiser was 1250 Tons, <BR>
> so we have a<BR>
> lower range for Battleriders.  ;)<BR>
<BR>
Kinunir was a 'colonial' cruiser... so you could have 1000dton 'colonial<BR>
riders'... :)<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 07:44:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: simon_hibbs@lycosmail.com<BR>
Subject: Re:Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>Subject: Jump Space (was Re: Jump speed.)<BR>
...<BR>
>My theory about Jump Space is that there is actually some sort of parallel<BR>
>universe, full of all sorts of interesting things, through which you travel<BR>
>while in Jump. So if you are one of those Scientists like MegaTraveller lets<BR>
>you generate, with skills like Physics-8, you should be able to invent some<BR>
>sort of technology to adjust your "oscillation overthruster phase" (or<BR>
>whatever) so that you can enter this parallel universe. This could be the<BR>
>basis for some extremely interesting adventures.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
The question you have to answer is, why at some point in the last several<BR>
thousand years during which we have had Jumpspace technology, nobody has<BR>
done it before?<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps that level of jump field manipulation requires a whole series of<BR>
other technological developments before it becomes achievable. In any case<BR>
if we can do it, how come the Ancients didn't do it? (Or did they?).<BR>
<BR>
For ideas like this to make sense, they have to be considered within the<BR>
context of the overall Traveller timeline.<BR>
<BR>
On the subject of jump speeds, yes Jump drive is very fast. However that<BR>
speed is only meaningfull when considered in the context of the astrographic<BR>
assumptions in Traveller. In Traveller there are perhaps 50 or so star<BR>
systems within a 50x50 light year square area. In fact in a 50x50x50<BR>
lightyear cube around Sol there are about 270 stars. A ship in the real<BR>
universe has about five times as many stars within 25 ly of it than one in<BR>
the Traveller universe. Also that number increases by the third power<BR>
with increasing distance, whereas in Traveller it only increases to the<BR>
second power. Thus making the same assumptions about stellar density,<BR>
if we double the size of the volume of space the number of star systems<BR>
in Treveller increases to 200 stars, while in a 3D universe the number of<BR>
possible destinations within the same range increases to 2160 stars within<BR>
a 100 ly cubed volume.<BR>
<BR>
A starship in a 3D universe can afford to be many times slower than a<BR>
Traveller starship and still have a lot more possible destinations within<BR>
a given travell time ambit.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Simon Hibbs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:00:33 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format <BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
> errata... we don't need no stinking errata... we play our MT as<BR>
> gwd intended, hard and raw!<BR>
<BR>
As Sheridan on B5 says: "Abso-fragging-lutely!"<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 13:33:21 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson wrote:<BR>
> Peter wrote:<BR>
> >My vote is for MT.  For format and required data check  out  the<BR>
> >weapon sheets put out by DGP in some of the later issues of  the<BR>
> >Digest magazine ... as a ref I've found these  damn  handy!<BR>
> <BR>
> I agree. My apology is that although I've put various battledress<BR>
> and one medikit into this format, I haven't yet knocked my blank<BR>
> form into enough of a shape to publish it, too. My plan is to also<BR>
> have a weapon form.<BR>
<BR>
I had about 3/4 of the weapons and 1/2 the equipment done  up  on<BR>
DGP style equipment sheets on my  PC.  I  used  to  use  them  as<BR>
player handouts representing the equipment  they  had:  So  if  a<BR>
character had 2 autopistols the player had 2  autopistol  sheets.<BR>
And if that character passed one autopistol to another  character<BR>
then the player would hand over the sheet to  the  other  player.<BR>
It worked well.<BR>
<BR>
One day I backed up the files prior to reformatting my  harddisk.<BR>
After I had reformated my HD I discovered my  backup  device  was<BR>
faulty and all files were irretrievably corrupt.<BR>
<BR>
.<BR>
.<BR>
.<BR>
<BR>
Aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:40:53 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
michael.scanlon writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>This giving a realative velocity for a jump-1 ship at 169 times the speed<BR>
>of light.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
        Which, interestingly enough, comes out to Warp 5.53 in the original<BR>
        version of a certain SF milieu (very similar to the stated cruising<BR>
        speed of Warp 6 for the protagonist's ship).  Also interesting, Jump<BR>
        6 comes to Warp 10.06, very similar to the maximum speed in the<BR>
        aformentioned milieu.  Hmmmm.....<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:32:35 -0400<BR>
From: Ethan Henry <egh@klg.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Unintended Consequences (was Re: laws)<BR>
<BR>
Luther,<BR>
<BR>
"Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com> wrote on the TML:<BR>
> It's interesting that organizations, including governments, implement<BR>
> regulations and then act surprised at the results when people act the way<BR>
> they have been directed to act. Our Internet products sales force, for<BR>
> example, are the only ones who get a commission off of sales of our Internet<BR>
> products, yet our sales organization acts surprised that other sales people<BR>
> don't actively pursue Internet product sales leads.<BR>
<BR>
Heh. Heh heh heh. <BR>
<BR>
So, I think I apologized for flaming you once before, but I'll do it<BR>
again (regardless of the fact it was a long time ago) - you are a man<BR>
after my own heart - well, perhaps more properly, you seem to work<BR>
somewhere plagued by the same demons that hang around here.<BR>
<BR>
It's really heartening to know that these things don't just happen<BR>
to me.<BR>
<BR>
Ethan<BR>
- --<BR>
Ethan Henry                                         egh@klg.com<BR>
Product Manager, KL Group                    http://www.klg.com<BR>
260 King St East, Toronto ON M5A 4L5 CANADA     +1 416 643 3567<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:34:55 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
Subject: 10 Commandments of DMing<BR>
<BR>
  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,<BR>
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.<BR>
  Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info.<BR>
<BR>
- --------------Boundary-00=_0DHNQYRXFQQMYJ0CCJD0<BR>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII<BR>
Content-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.95.1000929093325.7702F@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
<BR>
Given all the self-professed "sadistic GMs" around here, I thought the<BR>
list would enjoy the following:<BR>
<BR>
> The Ten commandments of the sadistic DM are undeniable (should<BR>
> anyone deny them, refer to number 6) and holy truths that every DM<BR>
> should instill (or force) into the players, so that the<BR>
> roleplaying experience be enhanced and become more enjoyable to<BR>
> the game's most important person, the DM (Should ANY player think<BR>
> otherwise, refer to number 6).<BR>
><BR>
> I.- "Thy players shall have no other DMs before thee" (Should they<BR>
> defy you, refer to number 6)<BR>
><BR>
> II.- "Thy players shall make for themselves a carved image in the<BR>
> likeness of the DM, and they shall bow down to him and serve him"<BR>
> (if they refuse, refer to number 6)<BR>
><BR>
> III.- "Thy players shall not take the name of the Lord the DM in<BR>
> vain" (if they refuse, refer to number 6)<BR>
><BR>
> IV.- "Remember the Role-playing Day, and keep it holy" (otherwise<BR>
> refer to number 6)<BR>
><BR>
> V.- "Thy PLAYERS shall honor the official playing rules, thou<BR>
> shall not honor them, for ye shall twist them on thy favor" (if<BR>
> thy players refuse or complain, or if ye believe they are thinking<BR>
> of it, refer to number 6)<BR>
><BR>
> VI.- "Thou shall kill thy player's characters whenever they<BR>
> question thy judgement" (And if thy monster is defeated, refer to<BR>
> number 5)<BR>
><BR>
> VII.- "Thou shall forget any and all information that might give<BR>
> the player characters an opportunity" (and should they complain,<BR>
> refer to number 6)<BR>
><BR>
> VIII.- "Thou shall steal thy player characters favourite magic<BR>
> items whenever you feel they have an advantage over thy monsters"<BR>
> (Should they be smart or lucky, refer to number 5, and if still<BR>
> you fail, refer to number 6)<BR>
><BR>
> IX.- "Thy Non player characters shall not bear false witness<BR>
> against your player characters, unless it suits thy needs" (such<BR>
> needs shall always attain to number 6)<BR>
><BR>
> X.- "Thy players shall not covet the DM's dice (loaded is holy),<BR>
> they shall not covet the DM's position, nor anything that is the<BR>
> DM's" (Should they covet thy blood in vengeance for what they<BR>
> believe is abusing your power, refer to number 911)<BR>
><BR>
> Finally, any confrontation or complaint (real or imagined) that is<BR>
> not covered by these ten holy principles shall be dealt with...<BR>
> well, by referring to number 6.<BR>
<BR>
- --------------Boundary-00=_0DHNQYRXFQQMYJ0CCJD0--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:10:33 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
1 parsec = 1 / tan(1/3600) <BR>
<<<BR>
I get 1 parsec = 1AU/tan(1/3600) which is not the same as the above.<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
1 parsec = 1 / (4.848136811e-6)<BR>
<<<BR>
How do you get 4.848136811e-6 from tan(1/3600)?<BR>
<BR>
tan(1/3600) = 2.777777848e-4<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:06:32 +0100<BR>
From: Brian Caball <boc@raidtec.ie><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3106<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
I am thinking of having an adventure that is a form of 'dimensional<BR>
crossover', where the command crew of a traveller warship meet up with a<BR>
'Trek' starship. I was thinking of getting them into conflict with each<BR>
other, but any way I looked at it, the 'Trek' ship would paste the<BR>
traveller ship. <BR>
<BR>
Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
<BR>
The Trek ship wouldn't be able to fire at the traveller ship until they<BR>
closed to visual range (say, 10Km being generous given all the trek<BR>
combats i've seen. Most fire at each other from only one or two<BR>
ship-lengths away), whereas the traveller ship could fire at the trek<BR>
ship before it was even a bright point of light.<BR>
<BR>
The Trek ship would be severly limited in manoueverability, as it would<BR>
have to remain "upright" with respect to the traveller ship. The<BR>
Traveller ship would have no such problems. <BR>
<BR>
The Trek ships's sheilds might not guard against mesons, which after all<BR>
do not interact with ordinary matter nor are they effected by electric<BR>
or magnetic fields. <BR>
<BR>
The slow speed of quantum or photon torpedoes (or for that matter,<BR>
phasers) make then unfeasible weapon systems at the ranges a Traveller<BR>
ship can operate at.  <BR>
<BR>
Fair enough the Trek ship can go to warp, and the Traveller ship cannot<BR>
follow. However, the Traveller ship can jump, and so cannot be tracked<BR>
by trek sub space sensors as it moves.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 07:42:16 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
<BR>
> How do you get 4.848136811e-6 from tan(1/3600)?<BR>
><BR>
> tan(1/3600) = 2.777777848e-4<BR>
<BR>
I will bet that one of these is in degrees while the other is in radians.<BR>
Yep. A quick check shows that the 4.8E-6 is degrees, while the 2.8E-4 is<BR>
radians. Since we are talking about one arc-second here, the degrees are<BR>
likely the right way to go.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:12:12 -0700<BR>
From: Cliff Linehan <clinehan@sfamipec.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:26:01 +1000 From: Paul Harris<BR>
> <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
>That places jump 4 (average warship jump), at around warp 8.7, and jump<BR>
>6 at warp 10.05<BR>
<BR>
I did some calculations some time back based on distance over time factors<BR>
and came up with the following values for Jump vs. Warp speeds.<BR>
<BR>
Jump 1 = Warp 4.6036<BR>
Jump 2 = Warp 5.7034<BR>
Jump 3 = Warp 7.0609<BR>
Jump 4 = Warp 8.6765<BR>
Jump 5 = Warp 9.8110<BR>
Jump 6 = Warp 9.9440<BR>
<BR>
>I am thinking of having an adventure that is a form of 'dimensional<BR>
>crossover', where the command crew of a traveller warship meet up with a<BR>
>'Trek' starship. I was thinking of getting them into conflict with each<BR>
>other, but any way I looked at it, the 'Trek' ship would paste the<BR>
>traveller ship. <BR>
<BR>
I remember reading a story someone had written about the first encounter<BR>
between Star Trek and Star Wars. I believe I still have it, I will see if I<BR>
can find it for you.<BR>
<BR>
Clifford Linehan<BR>
http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller<BR>
Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core Route.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:26:01 -0700<BR>
From: Jeremy Rector <balinor@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Quizzes lead to punning and the harder stuff<BR>
<BR>
OK, This is really getting "out there".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 03:45:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Quizzes lead to punning and the harder stuff<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, with a name like Oort McLeod, you'd expect he'd show up every<BR>
> once in a while, get everyone to notice him, then quietly slip away<BR>
> again.<BR>
><BR>
> - --- Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:<BR>
> > > Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 12:37:40 -0700<BR>
> > > From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Ice see nothing wrong with what he said...he's clearly a man with a<BR>
> > tail<BR>
> > > to tell.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Yeah, I'd definitely keep an ion him.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > > > Douglas E. Berry said,<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > > Oort McLeod?  A man with his head in the clouds, no doubt.<BR>
> > > ><BR>
> > > > I would expect a pun like that from you.<BR>
> > > > Tis truly a sad cometary on your sanity.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You Kuiper puns away from my brother!  (Though Lord knows, by this<BR>
> > time I<BR>
> > should be beyond the point of Charon...)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > --<BR>
> >    |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
> >  --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
> >    |<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
> =====<BR>
> Gerry Harris<BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
> ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
> "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
> **********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 08:54:04 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Solaris<BR>
<BR>
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand<BR>
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.<BR>
<BR>
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02A2D.7E1E8C40<BR>
Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>
	charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>
<BR>
A friend of mine just sent me the following email:<BR>
<BR>
>	I've just read on the net that big-time director James Cameron is in<BR>
>talks with Steven Soderburg to do a remake of Solaris, the 1971 Russian<BR>
>sci-fi movie! Apparently both men are big fans of the novel and film.<BR>
>Sound interesting? <BR>
<BR>
	Ummm.....YES!  While I shudder at the thought of Cameron trying to<BR>
pep up the story and make an action movie out of it (please, please, please<BR>
don't have scenes of the scientist racing through the tangled corridors of<BR>
the station, trying to reach the x-ray generators and shut them down before<BR>
they irradiate the oceans below) , the thought of him dropping 100 mil on<BR>
effects is enough to make my mouth water.<BR>
	For those of you listees that have not had the puzzling pleasure of<BR>
either seeing the movie or reading the book:  do it.  Do both.  The film is<BR>
available on tape, and the book IS out there.<BR>
<BR>
	ObTrav - perhaps there are some alien species that, try as you<BR>
might, you just cannot find any common ground for communication.  Solaris<BR>
would be a Red Zone...big time.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT (and big Lem fan)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - they just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02A2D.7E1E8C40<BR>
Content-Type: text/html;<BR>
	charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR>
<BR>
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10><BR>
<HEAD><BR>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =<BR>
charset=3Diso-8859-1"><BR>
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =<BR>
5.5.2651.75"><BR>
<TITLE>Solaris</TITLE><BR>
</HEAD><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
A friend of mine just sent me =<BR>
the following email:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I've just read on the net =<BR>
that big-time director James Cameron is in<BR>
<BR>
&gt;talks with Steven Soderburg =to do a remake of Solaris, the 1971 Russian<BR>
&gt;sci-fi movie! Apparently =both men are big fans of the novel and film.<BR>
&gt;Sound interesting? <BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ummm.....YES!&nbsp; While I shudder at the thought =of Cameron trying to<BR>
pep up the story and make an =action movie out of it (please, please, please<BR>
don't have scenes of the =scientist racing through the tangled corridors of<BR>
the station, trying to reach =the x-ray generators and shut them down before<BR>
they irradiate the oceans =below) , the thought of him dropping 100 mil on<BR>
effects is enough to make my =mouth water.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For those of you listees that have not had the =puzzling pleasure of<BR>
either seeing the movie or =reading the book:&nbsp; do it.&nbsp; Do both.&nbsp; The film is<BR>
available on tape, and the book =IS out there.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ObTrav - perhaps there are some alien species =that, try as you<BR>
might, you just cannot find any =common ground for communication.&nbsp; Solaris<BR>
would be a Red Zone...big =time.<BR>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT (and big Lem fan)<BR>
-------------------------------------------------------------------=- -----<BR>
Disclaimer - they just tell me =to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C02A2D.7E1E8C40--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3107<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3108</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest     Friday, September 29 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3108<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
RE: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Solaris<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Speed of Light/Parsec (and heresy)<BR>
Re: Solaris<BR>
Re: GT News<BR>
Re: So Much For Humour (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101)<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Speed of Light/Parsec (and heresy)<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Striker nukes<BR>
Re: MT weapon's format<BR>
For Striker: Ydra class point defense vehicle<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:01:14 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>I am thinking of having an adventure that is a form of 'dimensional<BR>
>crossover', where the command crew of a traveller warship meet up with a<BR>
>'Trek' starship. I was thinking of getting them into conflict with each<BR>
>other, but any way I looked at it, the 'Trek' ship would paste the<BR>
>traveller ship. <BR>
>Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
<BR>
        Disclaimer: the following opinions are based on my impressions of<BR>
        the Star Trek universe, and are not official.   :)<BR>
<BR>
        In open space, the Trek ship would be invulnerable to the Trav ship<BR>
        merely by maintaining superluminal speeds.  In stellar systems,<BR>
        where Warp drives seems to be dangerous to use, at least the Trav<BR>
        ship could spot the Trek ship.  Even here, Trek ships can apparently<BR>
        reach relitivistic speeds on short order and change vector extremely<BR>
        quickly (inertia does not seem to be a problem).  This, combined<BR>
        with sensors that opperate at superluminal speeds, would make<BR>
        Trek ships almost impossible to hit unless they were ignoring the<BR>
        Trav ship.<BR>
<BR>
        The matter-antimatter reactors on Trek ships presumably<BR>
        produce far more power than similar-sized Trav fusion power plants.<BR>
        In fact, Trek Impulse Engines may be considered at least as powerful<BR>
        as Trav Power Plant + Maneuver Drive (and Trek Impulse Engines are<BR>
        considered wimpy in that milieu).  Trek photon torpedos are<BR>
        antimatter bombs that are fired at superluminal speeds, making them<BR>
        more powerful than nuclear missiles and impossible to hit with point-<BR>
        defense weapons.  Phasers are also superluminal weapons that are<BR>
        more powerful than lasers.  How they relate to other Trav weaponry is<BR>
        harder to assess, but I would expect them to be superior to everything<BR>
        except _possibly_ meson guns.<BR>
<BR>
        Trek shields are strong enough to absorb much of the energy from<BR>
        nearby nuclear explosions, and would presumably affect mesons.<BR>
        Furthermore, one episode indicated that these shields render Trek<BR>
        ships invisible to 20th century radar at least.<BR>
<BR>
        Trek tractor beams could presumably be used as super-powerful<BR>
        repulsors, though given the Trek ships invisibility to radar and<BR>
superior<BR>
        acceleration I would expect that guided missiles would be useless (add<BR>
        to that the apparent superiority in computer an communications<BR>
        technology that would make for nasty ECM).  At closer ranges,<BR>
        Trek ships could beam bombs into Trav ships, beam crew or equipment<BR>
        out, or beam Marines to board Trav ships.  To all appearances, a tiny<BR>
        hand-phaser is about as powerful as a PGMP-15.  What do you suppose<BR>
        Trek Marines carry?  Trichorders could provide substancial tactical<BR>
        advantages.<BR>
<BR>
        What does that leave Trav ships?  Not much.  Jump drive allows you to<BR>
        get past patrols, but then the Trav ships have to simply change their<BR>
        strategy to protecting systems.  Trek sensors appear to be much superior<BR>
        in range and sensitivity to Trav ones, making patrol relatively<BR>
easy.  Jump<BR>
        6 Trav ships can move faster than most Trek ships, though this advantage<BR>
        only acrues under certain circumstances (eg. racing from one particular<BR>
        system to another that is exactly 6 parsecs away).  The Trav Black Globe<BR>
        is probably not invisible to Trek sensors, if nothing else due to<BR>
the "hole"<BR>
        in the background that it would cause.  You could rule otherwise, of<BR>
        course, allowing Trav ships the possibility of surprising Trek ships<BR>
(this<BR>
        would still be difficult as the Trav ships cannot see out, either).<BR>
<BR>
        Trav ships may be built much larger than typical Trek ships, and Spinal<BR>
        Mounts might have enough "kick" to be competative with Trek weaponry<BR>
        (Depending on how you calculate things.  Given that Trek phasers seem<BR>
        to consume a significant part of the output of a matter-antimatter<BR>
reactor,<BR>
        they must be pretty nasty).  As I've mentioned, hitting active Trek<BR>
targets is<BR>
        probably impossible anyways.<BR>
<BR>
        Bottom line: Trek is at Trav TL >>15.  The only things that I can<BR>
think of that<BR>
        might allow some advantage to Trav ships is Jump Drive, large ships, and<BR>
        perhaps the use of Psi.  Not much to go on.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:17:57 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I am thinking of having an adventure that is a form of 'dimensional<BR>
> crossover', where the command crew of a traveller warship meet up with a<BR>
> 'Trek' starship. I was thinking of getting them into conflict with each<BR>
> other, but any way I looked at it, the 'Trek' ship would paste the<BR>
> traveller ship. <BR>
> <BR>
> Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
> <BR>
Well, trek ships tend to be basically armed civilian designs, not warships,<BR>
which doesn't help them, but they're also at least TL 18.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:20:03 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Of course, we're *really* pikers compared with the old Lensman stories.<BR>
> A typical ship in those cruised at 60 parsecs an *hour* and had a top<BR>
> speed of around 90! That's around 2.6 *million* times the speed of<BR>
> light if I haven't dropped a decimal.<BR>
<BR>
Pah.  The Skylark series has ships which make the lensmen look weak ;)  They<BR>
never specified exact speed, but inter-galactic travel didn't seem to be a problem by book 4 (nor did blowing up a galaxy...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:33:57 -0500<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Paul Harris writes:<BR>
> <snipped><BR>
> >I am thinking of having an adventure that is a form of 'dimensional<BR>
> >crossover', where the command crew of a traveller warship meet up with a<BR>
> >'Trek' starship. I was thinking of getting them into conflict with each<BR>
> >other, but any way I looked at it, the 'Trek' ship would paste the<BR>
> >traveller ship.<BR>
> >Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
><BR>
>         Disclaimer: the following opinions are based on my impressions of<BR>
>         the Star Trek universe, and are not official.   :)<BR>
>         Bottom line: Trek is at Trav TL >>15.  The only things that I can<BR>
> think of that<BR>
>         might allow some advantage to Trav ships is Jump Drive, large ships, and<BR>
>         perhaps the use of Psi.  Not much to go on.<BR>
<BR>
Trek is more like TL17-18. Put a TL15 ship up against it and it will get toasted.<BR>
Star Wars or Cattlecar Galactica is a better comparison for Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:13:19 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris writes:<BR>
> I am thinking of having an adventure that is a form of<BR>
> 'dimensional crossover', where the command crew of a traveller<BR>
> warship meet up with a 'Trek' starship. I was thinking of<BR>
> getting them into conflict with each other, but any way I<BR>
> looked at it, the 'Trek' ship would paste the traveller ship. <BR>
> <BR>
> Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
<BR>
Trek  ships  often  have  problems  with  subspace   disturbances<BR>
(especially when Brannon Braga writes the episode).  Since  "jump<BR>
space" and "subspace" are probably the same thing you could  have<BR>
the side-effect of the jump field (created by the Trav warship as<BR>
it arrives) cause the Trek ship's warp core to go offline.  If it<BR>
takes a while to reinitialise then the Trek ship  has  a  severly<BR>
reduced effectiveness: movement limited to sub light speeds,  and<BR>
limited energy for weapons and shields.<BR>
<BR>
Also, if the Trav ship is a Zhodani  vessel  carrying  Commandoes<BR>
they can teleport across (like a Trek transporter) and  go  hand-<BR>
to-hand in the  Trek  ship's  corridors.  (I  wonder  of  psionic<BR>
teleportation can occur  through  Trek  shields  ...  I  seem  to<BR>
remember that some forms of transporters can.)<BR>
<BR>
If the Trek ship's captain believe they are dealing with  a  pre-<BR>
warp civilisation then he may be legally limited in his range  of<BR>
responses.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:53:40 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Solaris<BR>
<BR>
> Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> A friend of mine just sent me the following email:<BR>
> <BR>
> >       I've just read on the net that big-time director James Cameron<BR>
> is in<BR>
> >talks with Steven Soderburg to do a remake of Solaris, the 1971<BR>
> Russian<BR>
> >sci-fi movie! Apparently both men are big fans of the novel and film.<BR>
> <BR>
> >Sound interesting?<BR>
<BR>
Arrrrrrggghhh!!! Oh NOOOOoooooo!!!!! <BR>
<BR>
Leonard Dicaprio on the Solaris...worse it could be Anuld: 'I'll be<BR>
baack'<BR>
<BR>
This is sad news. The '71 movie is something that's haunted me ever<BR>
since I saw it decades ago, and I don't feel it will be treated well at<BR>
all by Cameron.<BR>
<BR>
SFX do not necessarily make a good film, nor does action (Cameron's<BR>
strong point, to put it mildly) suit this story well, either.<BR>
<BR>
That said, I _really_ hope I'm proven wrong.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:59:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson said,<BR>
<BR>
> Except that all those nice paradoxes don't care *how* you got from<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> point A to point B, just that you did so faster than light could make<BR>
<BR>
> the same trip.<BR>
<BR>
Mayhaps I have'nt thought it through enough, but I dont see too many<BR>
problems with getting to point B before light from point A would. You<BR>
pretty much rip a hole and leave the universe maintaining you same<BR>
velocity relative to your exit hole as you had relative to your<BR>
entrance. Now I can see some potential problems with shoving mass out of<BR>
our universem or back in. Hmmm maybe the missing mass is from an ancient<BR>
jumpspace experiment.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
=======<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:16:41 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Speed of Light/Parsec (and heresy)<BR>
<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: The Speed of Light<BR>
><BR>
<huge snip><BR>
><BR>
>It happens that toward the latter part of the twentieth century, we<BR>
>finally determined the absolute distance of an AU pretty darn accurately.<BR>
>But professional astronomers still talk in AUs and parsecs.  You'll very<BR>
>seldom hear a pro mention 'light years' when she's not talking down to a<BR>
>bunch of gawking tourists. :)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
	I have been playing around with my 3D mapping system for MTU, and so<BR>
far the scale that is working out the best is with each subsector being a<BR>
cube 40 LY or 12 parsecs on a side.  When displaying the positions of the<BR>
stars, however, a parsec is really too coarse a measure for my purposes.<BR>
Plotting the positions of the stars on the maps works out far better with a<BR>
40x40 grid than with a 12x12 one.<BR>
	The question I need to direct at the astrophysicists on the list is<BR>
this:  will using light years as a measure get me quietly sniggered at by<BR>
any respectable astronomer who sees my notes?  <BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer:  They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:31:58 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Solaris<BR>
<BR>
A James Cameron remake of 'Solaris' would be an almost-certain travesty.  The original director, Andrei Tarkovsky, was one of the singular genii of his filmmaking generation; James Cameron is, to put it lightly, not.<BR>
<BR>
Furthermore, this movie will never be made.  A remake of a notoriously slow and difficult Soviet metaphysical-SF movie, doesn't exactly scream out "box office," not even for the King of the World.<BR>
<BR>
Having said this, I have to confess that 'Solaris' is one of the few movies I've actually conceded defeat to.  It was after a full day's work, and the second part of a double-feature (if this seems implausible, the first part was Chris Marker's 'La Jetee,' which only runs about 30 min), and I was having fits staying awake and was utterly lost in the plot.  I was sure that the movie must be almost over when the title came up - 'Intermission;'  I was only half-way there!  I never made it to the second half, and have felt guilty ever since.<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:51:44<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: GT News<BR>
<BR>
At 08:14 PM 9/28/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Probably because it has nothing to do with near-C rocks or penguins.<BR>
<BR>
Near-C penguins...<BR>
<BR>
Just a bit OT, I now have the pictures of my encounter with Magenellic<BR>
penguins of the SF zoo, and will soon have them up on the Silly Era.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:00:50<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: So Much For Humour (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3101)<BR>
<BR>
At 11:27 AM 9/29/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>BTW, is the list slow at the moment because its US members have _finally_<BR>
>started watching the Olympics? Like, I mean, I know NBC is transmitting <BR>
>delayed broadcasts... ;-)  Just imagine what it is like trying to broadcast <BR>
>the Marches-wide grav-ball competition... but the question is, would MBC - <BR>
>Marches Broadcasting Corp - still pay BCr1 for it? ;-) ;-) One wonders what <BR>
>soaps they are going to cancel out of next season's budget?<BR>
<BR>
I'm a dedicated Olympic coach potato.  And a charter member of the Eric<BR>
Mossambani Fan Club.<BR>
<BR>
I imagine that the various outlets would pay for J-6 couriers to tranpsort<BR>
the results the moment they came through, to insure that they were the<BR>
first with the news.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:11:43 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
> Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have [over a Trek ship]?<BR>
<BR>
One word: Bridge<BR>
<BR>
The Trek ships tend to have their command bridges more than slightly<BR>
exposed, which is a great disadvantage to exploit.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:18:07 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Speed of Light/Parsec (and heresy)<BR>
<BR>
Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
>         The question I need to direct at the astrophysicists on the list is<BR>
> this:  will using light years as a measure get me quietly sniggered at by<BR>
> any respectable astronomer who sees my notes?<BR>
<BR>
Maybe, but fixing the stars to a grid (by rounding off their<BR>
coordinates) certainly will  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 12:31:40 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm writes:<BR>
> Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
> > Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have [over a Trek<BR>
> > ship]? <BR>
> <BR>
> One word: Bridge<BR>
> <BR>
> The Trek ships tend to have their command bridges more than slightly<BR>
> exposed, which is a great disadvantage to exploit.<BR>
<BR>
Which is mostly irrelevant, since Trek ships don't have armor to speak of.  If<BR>
you can get through the shields, the location of the bridge is of marginal<BR>
relevance.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:04:36 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
The main advantage Trek ships have is that they are more<BR>
cinematic.  Having to adhere more closely to reality and<BR>
consistency will be a real handicap for Traveller ships...<BR>
<BR>
:-)<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 14:13:53 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Bernie McGeehan <einreb62@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, they really knew how to build them in the<BR>
Lensman's day...<BR>
> <BR>
> Of course, we're *really* pikers compared with the<BR>
> old Lensman stories.<BR>
> A typical ship in those cruised at 60 parsecs an<BR>
> *hour* and had a top<BR>
> speed of around 90! That's around 2.6 *million*<BR>
> times the speed of<BR>
> light if I haven't dropped a decimal.<BR>
> <BR>
> -- <BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
"History is made at night."	 Dr Emilio Lizardo/Lord John Worfinhttp://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:56:05 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
"David P. Summers" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> The main advantage Trek ships have is that they are more<BR>
> cinematic.  Having to adhere more closely to reality and<BR>
> consistency will be a real handicap for Traveller ships...<BR>
<BR>
Ah, but this advantage for Trek ships is also a disadvantage, if the<BR>
scriptwriter feels the need to inflict some problem (often involving the<BR>
Particle-of-the-Week [tm]) on the hapless Starfleet crew.  A Traveller<BR>
crew can claim "That's not physics!" and have a chance of carrying the<BR>
day.  A Trek crew just has to sit and take it.<BR>
<BR>
I agree with the poster who earlier mentioned that a Trav ship coming<BR>
out of (or going into) jumpspace would be a lovely source of PotWs [tm].<BR>
<BR>
A more fundamental advantage for Traveller ships is that Famille<BR>
Spofulam, X-TEC, and Pinkerdoo build ships for Traveller, not Trek.  I<BR>
shall refrain from gratuitous self-congratulation, and not mention<BR>
AuricTech Shipyards as another source of impressively excessive ships<BR>
for Traveller (_Montana_, anyone?).  (I need to check the size of a<BR>
_Constitution_-class starship, and compare it with a couple of AuricTech<BR>
ships.)<BR>
<BR>
Meanwhile, the denizens of the 3I are not hamstrung by the quaint<BR>
concept of the "Prime Directive."  Further, Traveller PCs tend to be far<BR>
more ruthless than anyone in Starfleet.  These two factors point to an<BR>
immense psychological and tactical advantage for the crew of a Trav ship<BR>
over the crew of a Trek ship.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:23:24 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker nukes<BR>
<BR>
Fadetozero asked:<BR>
<BR>
 >do u have insight into how the Striker values for primary, secondary,<BR>
 >and<BR>
 >tertiary blast Radii for nukes were arrived at?  and how about the<BR>
 >penetration value in various zones?<BR>
<BR>
I don't really know how they did it.  I suspect they used what published<BR>
data was available at the time for burst radii, and guess-timated the <BR>
rest.  The primary blast area is the burn-zone (remaining trees are<BR>
burning), the secondary blast area is the "blow-down" zone (trees are<BR>
blown down).  You might be able to find stats for these zones from lists<BR>
of nuclear warhead data (RL weapons references).<BR>
<BR>
There was an article (two parts, I think) in an old JTAS that had what<BR>
it stated was a more accurate nuke table (with bigger nukes included),<BR>
but I think it seriously underestimated what you need to crack a planet.<BR>
<BR>
As a tidbit, if you want the *contact* PV of a nuke, look at the high <BR>
end of the demolition table in Book 3.  Use the "other" column.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:26:21 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: MT weapon's format<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn needs Traveller weapon formats (like Mars Needs Women):<BR>
<BR>
You know CT format.  <BR>
MT weapon format is as follows (it's Strikeresque):<BR>
<BR>
Name: ACR, 9mm<BR>
<BR>
Ammo Notes: DS (list each ammo type weapon fires; DS is example)<BR>
<BR>
Rounds: 20 (rounds per magazine)<BR>
<BR>
Penetration/Attenuation: 6/3 (Nice ring to it; penetration is identical<BR>
to Striker PV, attenuation describes how PV decreases w/range.  PV drops<BR>
by half for every n range bands (same as in CT); start counting at "short"<BR>
range.  So, an ACR has a PV of 6 at Short, Medium, & Long range, and a PV<BR>
of 3 at Very Long, Distant, and Continental range (it won't shoot *that*<BR>
far, though).<BR>
<BR>
Damage: 3 (this is basically equal to CT dice of damage)<BR>
<BR>
Max range: Very Long (longest range band weapon can fire at)<BR>
<BR>
Autofire targets: 2 (like Striker, but different; probably due to shorter<BR>
combat rounds [6 sec. vs. 15 sec. phase]; ROF table is as follows:<BR>
<BR>
ROF (rpm)   Targets<BR>
<BR>
40      2<BR>
80      3<BR>
160     4<BR>
320     5<BR>
640     6<BR>
1280+       7<BR>
<BR>
Danger space: -- (listed in meters; for explosive radius/gas cloud kinda<BR>
stuff, shotgun spread [group hits], you get the idea)<BR>
<BR>
Signature: Medium (low = hard to spot/hear; medium = fairly easy to spot,<BR>
especially in darkness; high = very easy to spot)<BR>
<BR>
Recoil: Medium (low recoil weapons are zero-G friendly; medium can cause<BR>
disorientation in zero-G; high = cannot move in firing turn)<BR>
<BR>
You should also note if the weapon is capable of rapid fire (like Book 4's<BR>
panic fire).  This should probably be for all automatic weapons, semi-<BR>
auto, double-action revolvers, or any weapon that can discharge a lot of<BR>
rounds quickly with little care for accuracy (I suppose you could count<BR>
"fanning" of single action revolvers?).<BR>
<BR>
Difficulty: Rifle with gyrostable (type of firing chart to use; classes are<BR>
Thrown, Handgun, Rifle, and Fire Control [with TL listed].  Scope, <BR>
Gyrostable, and Scope & Gyrostable round out the tables.<BR>
<BR>
For support weapons, include set-up time increment (set-up time divided by<BR>
ten).<BR>
<BR>
In a separate book (Imperial Encyclopedia) stats are provided for:<BR>
<BR>
Tech Level: 9<BR>
Length: 0.7m<BR>
Volume: 3.5 liters<BR>
Unloaded Weight: 3.5 kg<BR>
Price: Cr 1000<BR>
Ammo Weight: 0.5 kg (magazine)<BR>
Ammo Price: Cr 15 (magazine)<BR>
<BR>
I don't know TNE or T4 stats.  I think you know Striker stats, if not,<BR>
I could supply them.  BTW, this is what you wanted, isn't it?  Do you<BR>
need stats for every weapon?<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 18:29:13 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: For Striker: Ydra class point defense vehicle<BR>
<BR>
A-1 Armament Industries (the first name in the construction of<BR>
destruction) now presents <fanfare>:<BR>
<BR>
The _Ydra_ class point-defense grav AFV.<BR>
<BR>
The newest member of the TL-10M family of grav AFVs.  A multi-turreted<BR>
vehicle capable of covering four accompanying vehicles with PD fire from<BR>
its four independently controlled auto-cannon mounts.  The mounts are<BR>
arranged in a "diamond" pattern (like the 15.5 cm mounts on the Yamato class<BR>
in their original configuration), allowing three mount coverage from ahead,<BR>
abeam, or astern, with two mount coverage on the quarters.  An extensive<BR>
sensor suite provides detection, tracking, and targeting data to the weapon<BR>
systems.  It's expensive, big, and everything you dread from the warped<BR>
brains of A-1 Armament Industries.<BR>
<BR>
Final errata for the Rapira & PMB vehicles <ulla ulla ulla>:<BR>
<BR>
I missed the bit about dividing an autocannon's ROF by its bore size.  Auto-<BR>
fire DM for the 2cm guns of later Rapira's is +5/+4/+2 w/16 targets.  Ammo<BR>
is enough for 16 phases of fire for each mount.  A thousand pardons.  Note<BR>
that the divide by bore size rule makes it impossible for a 6-barrel 2cm gun<BR>
to fire 1500 rounds per phase (M61 Vulcan); I think I had a house rule in the<BR>
good old days to disregard this bit, and must have applied it to the Rapiras<BR>
unconsciously.  The auto-cannon design sequence already takes care of ROF<BR>
adjustment for bore-size in the base rate of fire, so you may want to use<BR>
this house rule yourself (you could then give the Ydra's guns a +8 DM, with<BR>
double the ammo consumption, and use the earlier guns as listed).<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Ydra class point defense grav AFV<BR>
<BR>
This vehicle has a crew of 6 (commander, 4 gunners, driver).  It has 4<BR>
remote mounts on the chassis deck, one forward, one aft, with one on each<BR>
beam.  Each mounts an 5-barreled 2cm hyper-velocity auto-cannon with point<BR>
defense fire control.  Height: 1.5 m (+ remote mounts 0.5m).  Length: 9m.<BR>
Width: 8m.  Total volume: 83.1 m^3.  Weight: 404.55 tons.  Another sinker.<BR>
Cost: Cr 5,766,473.  Price & weight include full ammo load.<BR>
<BR>
Movement: Immobile bunker under standard gravity.  On Mongo:<BR>
Maximum speed: 720 kph/600 cm.  Cruise: 540 kph/450 cm.  NOE: 140 kph/<BR>
117 cm.<BR>
<BR>
Endurance: 15.15 hours.<BR>
<BR>
Movement effects on fire: no effect<BR>
<BR>
Armor: Crystaliron.  Remote mount front: 61.  Remote mount sides: 58.<BR>
Hull front: 56.  Hull sides: 54.  Remote mount rear, vehicle deck: 50.<BR>
Hull rear: 42.  Belly: 34.<BR>
<BR>
Target size DMs: Low +3.  High +1.  "Step right up!  Pick a mount, any mount!"<BR>
<BR>
Equipment: Laser sensors (roll 6+).  200 bottles prismatic anti-laser aerosol.<BR>
500 power all-weather target acquisition radar.  Thermal imaging.  Passive IR.<BR>
Image enhancement.  Extensive ECM.  5000 power radio.  50 power maser <BR>
comm.  Map box.  Battle computer.  5 power all-weather terrain following <BR>
radar.<BR>
<BR>
Weapons: The 5 barrelled 2 cm hyper-velocity auto-cannon may engage<BR>
16 targets, have a signature of +1, and fire only KEAP ammunition.<BR>
They have TL-10 point defense fire control and roll 6D per mount<BR>
when used against indirect fire.  Their range and penetration are:<BR>
<BR>
Effective               Long            Extreme<BR>
<BR>
300(17)+7               400(15)+5       550(13)+3<BR>
<BR>
Enough ammunition is provided to give each weapon 16 phases of fire.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------------------------------------------<BR>
Design details:<BR>
<BR>
Hull: 9 m long, 8 m wide, 1.5 m high.  Hull volume = 108 m^3<BR>
Configuration: moderate front & sides, vertical rear.  <BR>
    Available volume = 75.6 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Remote mounts (4): 2.5 m long, 2.5 m wide, 0.5 m high.  Turret volume = <BR>
    3.125 m^3<BR>
Configuration: radical front, moderate sides, vertical rear.<BR>
    Available mount volume 1.875 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Hull Armor: Crystaliron.  Volume = 26.98545 m^3  Weight = 269.8545 tons<BR>
    Cost = Cr 242,870  Remaining volume = 48.61455 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Front = 22.5cm thick (AV 56), 2.7 m^3<BR>
Sides = 18.835cm thick (AV 54), 5.08545 m^3.<BR>
Rear = 10cm thick (AV 42), 1.2 m^3 <BR>
Deck = 20cm thick (AV 50), 14.4 m^3.<BR>
Belly = 5cm thick (AV 34), 3.6 m^3.<BR>
<BR>
Remote mount armor (total): Crystaliron. Total Volume: 4.961 m^3.  Total<BR>
    Weight: 49.61 tons  Cost: Cr 44,649  Remaining Volume/mount:<BR>
      m^3<BR>
<BR>
Front = 25.88cm thick (AV 61), 0.3235 m^3 per mount.<BR>
Sides = 26.67cm thick (AV 58), 0.66675 m^3 per mount.<BR>
Rear = 20cm thick (AV 50),  0.25 m^3 per mount.<BR>
<BR>
* = in hull<BR>
<BR>
Power Plant: Fusion, 11 m^3.  Output 44 MW.  44 tons.  <BR>
    Cr 2,200,000.* <BR>
<BR>
Grav Generators: 8 m^3.  400 tons of thrust. need 40 MW  16 tons.*<BR>
    Cr 800,000.<BR>
<BR>
Fuel:  1000 liters of fuel for 15.15 hour endurance: 1 m^3,  <BR>
    0.07 tons,*  Cr 35  Power Plant consumes 66 liters per hour.<BR>
<BR>
Avionics: TL-10 Avionics, Volume = 0.3 m^3, Weight = 0.15 tons, Cr *<BR>
    12,000   Max NOE speed = 140/117.<BR>
<BR>
Electronics: Total volume = 0.6076 m^3  Cost = Cr 871,250   Weight = <BR>
     0.5029 tons* <BR>
<BR>
    5000 power radio  0.0013 tons  0.0026 m^3  Cr 5000<BR>
    50 power maser communicator  0.016 tons  0.032 m^3  Cr 15000<BR>
    500 power target acquisition radar (all-weather)  0.03 tons  0.06 m^3<BR>
    Cr 450,000<BR>
    map box  0.004 tons  0.008 m^3  Cr 1750<BR>
    battle computer  0.019 tons  0.038 m^3  Cr 100,000<BR>
    extensive ECM  0.03 tons  0.06 m^3  Cr 200,000<BR>
    thermal imaging  0.0005 tons  0.001 m^3  Cr 20,000<BR>
    image enhancement  0.001 tons  0.002 m^3  Cr 30,000<BR>
    passive IR  0.0001 tons  0.0002 m^3  Cr 500<BR>
    laser sensors -- TL-10  0.2 tons  0.2 m^3  Cr 30,000  Roll 6+<BR>
    200 cannisters prismatic anti-laser aerosol  0.2 tons  0.2 m^3  Cr 4000<BR>
    5 power terrain following radar  0.001 tons  0.002 m^3  Cr 15,000<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
Crew:   1 Driver, seated in hull,  Volume 1 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr100*<BR>
    1 Comnd., stand. in hull,  Volume 2 m^3  Weight 0.2 tons  Cr 100*<BR>
    4 Gunrs., seated in tur.,  Volume 4 m^3  Weight 0.8 tons  Cr 400*<BR>
<BR>
Environment:<BR>
    Hull, sealed with life support  Volume  3.07014 m^3  Weight 3.07014 tons<BR>
    Cr 6,702*<BR>
    4 mounts, sealed  Volume/mount: 0.0011688 m^3  Total Weight 0.004675 <BR>
    tons  Cr 47 <BR>
<BR>
5 barreled hypervelocity autocannon.  Four, each mounted in front face of<BR>
    remote mount.  Weapon station & gunners in hull.<BR>
<BR>
TL-10 2cm 5 barrelled, hypervelocity autocannon total values<BR>
    include stabilization, guns & FC for each mount.<BR>
<BR>
2 cm autocannon: Total weight: 3.7 tons  Total volume: 3.7 m^3<BR>
    (1.2 m^3 in hull)*  Total cost: Cr 1,506,400<BR>
    <BR>
Ammo: 40,960 rounds KEAP  Cr 81,920  Weight 16.384 tons *<BR>
    Volume 16.384 m^3.  Sufficient for 16 phases of fire <BR>
    from each weapon.<BR>
 <BR>
2 cm five barrel, hyper-velocity, auto cannon w/electric action.<BR>
    TL-10  Weight 0.225 ton  Volume 0.225 m^3  Cr 6,600 <BR>
    ROF per phase = 640  Autofire bonus = +7/+5/+3  16 targets<BR>
    Signature +1  Range (E/L/X) 300/400/550<BR>
Fires KEAP rounds only:<BR>
    per round  0.4 kg  0.0004 m^3  Cr 2<BR>
    Pen. value (E/L/X) 17/15/13<BR>
<BR>
TL-10 point defense fire control: 0.6 tons.  0.6 m^3.  Cr<BR>
    300,000.  Rolls 6D vs. indirect fire.  Note: 1/2 of volume is<BR>
    in each mount, the rest is in hull weapon station.<BR>
 <BR>
Stabilization gear: <BR>
     autocannon mount = 0.1 tons  0.1 m^3  Cr 70,000 <BR>
<BR>
Waste Space in Hull: 0.05281 m^3*<BR>
Waste Space/mount: 0.0085812 m^3 <BR>
<BR>
Ludowick <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3108<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3109</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 30 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3109<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Striker nukes<BR>
Not Re: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
RE: Jump speed<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Jump speed.<BR>
RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
Re: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
Re: Taxing energy<BR>
Rules for grav ball (was: [OT] The Rules of Hockey)<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: 1 parsec<BR>
Re: 1 parsec<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3105<BR>
Picking Nits: (Was, Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long))<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:30:34 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
At 4:56 PM -0500 9/29/00, John Groth wrote:<BR>
>Meanwhile, the denizens of the 3I are not hamstrung by the quaint<BR>
>concept of the "Prime Directive."  Further, Traveller PCs tend to be far<BR>
>more ruthless than anyone in Starfleet.  These two factors point to an<BR>
>immense psychological and tactical advantage for the crew of a Trav ship<BR>
>over the crew of a Trek ship.<BR>
<BR>
But if they are fighting in the Trek universe, you have the problem<BR>
that something always happens so the the morally upright defeat<BR>
the ruthless.  OTOH, if they were fighting in the Traveller universe<BR>
then the Trav crew would have an advantage....<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:38:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Striker nukes<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> There was an article (two parts, I think) in an old JTAS that had what<BR>
> it stated was a more accurate nuke table (with bigger nukes included),<BR>
> but I think it seriously underestimated what you need to crack a planet.<BR>
<BR>
No idea what it said.  I'd suggest looking at the Federation of American Scientist's nuclear weapons page, at http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew/index.html .<BR>
<BR>
As a rule of thumb, though, assume a ten-fold increase in yield doubles all<BR>
of the relevant diameters.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 19:04:50 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Not Re: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
<BR>
John Groth <wombat@premier.net> sez:<BR>
<BR>
>A more fundamental advantage for Traveller ships is that Famille<BR>
>Spofulam, X-TEC, and Pinkerdoo build ships for Traveller, not Trek.  I<BR>
>shall refrain from gratuitous self-congratulation, and not mention<BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards as another source of impressively excessive ships<BR>
>for Traveller (_Montana_, anyone?).  (I need to check the size of a<BR>
>_Constitution_-class starship, and compare it with a couple of AuricTech<BR>
>ships.)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Speaking of big, I just picked up the book "Marrow" by Robert Reed via the <BR>
SFBC. The ship (pardon "The Ship") in this book is probably Jupiter-sized or <BR>
bigger. Lots of beyond-Traveller tech in the book, but a lot of useful things <BR>
as well...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:32:13 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
The _feds_ suffer from this problem, however many of the other races do<BR>
not..<BR>
<BR>
D-7 Anyone? :)<BR>
<BR>
- ----<BR>
Well, trek ships tend to be basically armed civilian designs, not warships,<BR>
which doesn't help them, but they're also at least TL 18.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 11:39:13 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> It will be done, however do not expect it before the weekend. It<BR>
> looks like it's going to be a wee bit harder to get everything<BR>
> set up the way that we want it in raw HTML only.<BR>
<BR>
This why using Microsoft tools to develop web content is foolish.<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
It's simple to generate pure HTML from XML using an XSL processor from the<BR>
command line<BR>
and equally simple to write the XSL and the XML using a text editor in the<BR>
first place.<BR>
<BR>
My aproach, if the sourse is in Excel format, is to export the Excel in<BR>
comma-delimited format, use a small command line Java program to convert the<BR>
comma-delimited data to simple XML and then run an XSL transform over that<BR>
to create HTML. Both the Java program and the XSL transform are availale on<BR>
my website at<BR>
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie/html/downloads.html<BR>
and there are some examples of this being used on my web-site as well.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
Vist Munden's Bar at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 11:43:42 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote :<BR>
> Yes, you can *view* it just fine, but IE5.5 apparently can't save<BR>
> it if it's  XML, at least *I* can't get it to work. "This Web page could<BR>
not<BR>
> be saved,"  says IE5.5. And that's even with Office 2000 installed.<BR>
<BR>
It's a problem on your computer, I can happily save XML from IE5<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:23:13 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
> From: Bernie McGeehan <BR>
> Yeah, they really knew how to build them in the<BR>
> Lensman's day...<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Of course, we're *really* pikers compared with the<BR>
> > old Lensman stories.<BR>
> > A typical ship in those cruised at 60 parsecs an<BR>
> > *hour* and had a top<BR>
> > speed of around 90! That's around 2.6 *million*<BR>
> > times the speed of<BR>
> > light if I haven't dropped a decimal.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > -- <BR>
> > Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
<BR>
Of course, there is (or was, it may be out of print now) an Gurps: Lensman<BR>
book.<BR>
<BR>
If a very silly person wanted to, they could use GT to convert the<BR>
characters and gear in that book to Traveller....<BR>
<BR>
Aren't we lucky that the Solomani don't use Psionics?<BR>
<BR>
On other silliness:  the original FASA Trek RPG was rather Travelleresque. <BR>
(This isn't terribly surprising given FASA's origins.)  Converting stats to<BR>
CT shouldn't be appallingly difficult.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:47:57 -0400<BR>
From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>
Hash: SHA1<BR>
<BR>
At 06:29 PM 9/29/00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>A more fundamental advantage for Traveller ships is that Famille<BR>
>Spofulam, X-TEC, and Pinkerdoo build ships for Traveller, not Trek.  I<BR>
>shall refrain from gratuitous self-congratulation, and not mention<BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards as another source of impressively excessive ships<BR>
>for Traveller (_Montana_, anyone?).  (I need to check the size of a<BR>
>_Constitution_-class starship, and compare it with a couple of AuricTech<BR>
>ships.)<BR>
<snip><BR>
>- --<BR>
>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
       "We come in peace from the United Federation of Planets.  I'm <BR>
Captain Jean-Luc Picard." *face breaks into that actually rather charming, <BR>
I'm-British-but-I'm-acting-French smile* "And who might you be?"<BR>
        "Hi!  I'm Ditzie!"<BR>
<BR>
You've got to almost feel sorry for them.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, that brings other incidents to mind....<BR>
<BR>
        "My name, as I've told you before, is Benjamin Sisko, a Captain of <BR>
the Federation Starfleet!  I demand that you release us at once!"<BR>
        "You are in no position to make demands of us!  You are challenged!"<BR>
         "Captain...."<BR>
         "Yes, Major."<BR>
         "That's a very large dewclaw he's got pointing at you."<BR>
         "I hadn't noticed...."<BR>
<BR>
The Aslan would give them a bit of a run for their Vulcan money... oh, <BR>
wait, they don't use money....<BR>
<BR>
        "Tuvok, what -is- that thing?"<BR>
         "Unknown, Captain.  It is displacing, according to your Earth <BR>
calculations, approximately five hundred thousand tons of liquid <BR>
hydrogen.  They -- Captain, they are launching small combat craft."<BR>
         "All right, Ensign, raise shields and arm phasers!  How many are <BR>
we looking at, Tuvok?"<BR>
         "Approximately two hundred...."<BR>
         "..."<BR>
         "Make that three hundred heavy fighter craft."<BR>
         "Tom, get us out of here...!"<BR>
<BR>
Meeting a Tigress would probably be a religious experience....<BR>
<BR>
         "Saavaar ti'ilaad!"<BR>
         "Spock, what did she say?"<BR>
         "I am unsure, Captain.  The universal translator does not <BR>
recognize her language."<BR>
         "It doesn't matter, I'll take our... guest for a stroll... I mean, <BR>
a tour around the ship.  I'm sure we'll get better acquainted."<BR>
         "That would be unwise, Captain."<BR>
         "Whyisthat... Spock?"<BR>
         "Because she appears to have summoned three armored males of her <BR>
species."<BR>
         "Where?"<BR>
         "They have teleported right behind you..."<BR>
         *ka-chak! wrrrrrrr...!**ka-chak! wrrrrrrr...!**ka-chak! wrrrrrrr...!*<BR>
         "...and they appear to be armed with plasma weapons of some <BR>
sort.  It would be logical to assume that she has refused your offer, Captain."<BR>
<BR>
Kirk's first encounter with an Zhodani noblelady might be his last.  And he <BR>
thought the Kzinti were bad...!<BR>
<BR>
Sorry for the length of this, I'll go back off the beaten x-boat route, now. =)<BR>
<BR>
Cheers<BR>
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Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use <http://www.pgp.com><BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:10:33 -0400<BR>
From: michael stasica <stosh@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott wrote:<BR>
<BR>
SNIP<BR>
<BR>
>        "We come in peace from the United Federation of Planets.  I'm<BR>
> Captain Jean-Luc Picard." *face breaks into that actually rather charming,<BR>
> I'm-British-but-I'm-acting-French smile* "And who might you be?"<BR>
>         "Hi!  I'm Ditzie!"<BR>
><BR>
> You've got to almost feel sorry for them.<BR>
<BR>
Other Keyboard soakers SNIPPED<BR>
<BR>
> Sorry for the length of this, I'll go back off the beaten x-boat route, now. =)<BR>
><BR>
> Cheers<BR>
<BR>
Very well put.  Oh well time to get the keyboard blow dryer out.<BR>
<BR>
Michael<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 19:26:22 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:52:03 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard <BR>
Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Except that all those nice paradoxes don't care *how* you got from<BR>
>point A to point B, just that you did so faster than light could make<BR>
>the same trip.<BR>
<BR>
Except that (*grin*) ... most of the FTL paradoxes I've seen derive from <BR>
the assumptions that information can't travel faster than light, and/or <BR>
that there is no absolute/preferred frame of reference.  It seems to me <BR>
that if you have FTL, you've already rendered at least one of those moot.<BR>
<BR>
Put it this way:  I don't hear anyone objecting that fireworks violate <BR>
causality because you see the flash sooner than you hear the bang.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 19:48:49 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
LOL..<BR>
<BR>
True.. but I am one with the dark side..<BR>
<BR>
Come my freind, let your anger at the disgraced Mac and fragmented UNIX<BR>
platforms feed your hatred - Let the darkness in...<BR>
<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt<BR>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 4:39 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tsykoduk wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> It will be done, however do not expect it before the weekend. It<BR>
> looks like it's going to be a wee bit harder to get everything<BR>
> set up the way that we want it in raw HTML only.<BR>
<BR>
This why using Microsoft tools to develop web content is foolish.<BR>
<grin><BR>
<BR>
It's simple to generate pure HTML from XML using an XSL processor from the<BR>
command line<BR>
and equally simple to write the XSL and the XML using a text editor in the<BR>
first place.<BR>
<BR>
My aproach, if the sourse is in Excel format, is to export the Excel in<BR>
comma-delimited format, use a small command line Java program to convert the<BR>
comma-delimited data to simple XML and then run an XSL transform over that<BR>
to create HTML. Both the Java program and the XSL transform are availale on<BR>
my website at<BR>
http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie/html/downloads.html<BR>
and there are some examples of this being used on my web-site as well.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
Vist Munden's Bar at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:49:15 -0500<BR>
From: "Pat Connaughton" <patconnaughton@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
My first keyboard suicide.<BR>
I feel...<damp><BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Tsykoduk <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 9:48 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> LOL..<BR>
><BR>
> True.. but I am one with the dark side..<BR>
><BR>
> Come my freind, let your anger at the disgraced Mac and fragmented UNIX<BR>
> platforms feed your hatred - Let the darkness in...<BR>
><BR>
> ;)<BR>
><BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Frank G. Pitt<BR>
> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 4:39 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Striker I Stuff posted at Pinkerdoo<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Tsykoduk wrote :<BR>
><BR>
> > It will be done, however do not expect it before the weekend. It<BR>
> > looks like it's going to be a wee bit harder to get everything<BR>
> > set up the way that we want it in raw HTML only.<BR>
><BR>
> This why using Microsoft tools to develop web content is foolish.<BR>
> <grin><BR>
><BR>
> It's simple to generate pure HTML from XML using an XSL processor from the<BR>
> command line<BR>
> and equally simple to write the XSL and the XML using a text editor in the<BR>
> first place.<BR>
><BR>
> My aproach, if the sourse is in Excel format, is to export the Excel in<BR>
> comma-delimited format, use a small command line Java program to convert<BR>
the<BR>
> comma-delimited data to simple XML and then run an XSL transform over that<BR>
> to create HTML. Both the Java program and the XSL transform are availale<BR>
on<BR>
> my website at<BR>
> http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie/html/downloads.html<BR>
> and there are some examples of this being used on my web-site as well.<BR>
><BR>
> Frankie<BR>
><BR>
> Vist Munden's Bar at http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/~frankie<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:45:20 -0500<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Taxing energy<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
>>>Data point. A standard household "service drop" is wired for 220/240<BR>
at<BR>
>><BR>
>>>200 amps. That's 48 kW *max*. And it's unlikely to get close to<BR>
>>>capacity except in really unusual circumstances. And I don't mean<BR>
>>>heating/air conditioning load. I mean something like the homeowner<BR>
>>>having *major* equipment on premises.<BR>
>><BR>
>> my dad browned out the whole neighborhood on several occations.<BR>
>><BR>
>> but that was using an arc welder on a hot summer night.<BR>
><BR>
>It's *really* unlikely that the arc welder drew anything like 48 kW.<BR>
>But the fact that the whole neighborhood went dim shows that the power<BR>
>companies often can't supply anything *approaching* the "rated" load to<BR>
<BR>
>all customers.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
true, based on the circuit breaker installed for the welder, 8.8kW.  The<BR>
house was built with a 220V/100A service drop.  This was upgraded to a<BR>
150A service drop, as was half of the houses in the neighborhood, but<BR>
the power company did not increase the capicity of the transformer on<BR>
the street.<BR>
Home service drops have been increasing, 250A  service drops are<BR>
becoming common.<BR>
<BR>
Charles<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 23:59:43 -0500<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Rules for grav ball (was: [OT] The Rules of Hockey)<BR>
<BR>
Charles C. wrote:<BR>
>I'm assuming you mean "ice hockey" and not that thing they do on the<BR>
grass<BR>
>in short intervals between whistle blows, weilding shepherd sticks<BR>
>and wearing short skirts? :-)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
yes, 3rd preseason game.  seat behind home team goal in the 1st and 3rd<BR>
quarter?, third? whatever you call it.  I got the first puck over the<BR>
glass.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>Another ObTrav is that hockey rules make a pretty good Gravball game,<BR>
you<BR>
>just have to make it 3D...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
That IS why I asked.<BR>
<BR>
Charles H<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:40:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> Of course, we're *really* pikers compared with the old Lensman stories.<BR>
>> A typical ship in those cruised at 60 parsecs an *hour* and had a top<BR>
>> speed of around 90! That's around 2.6 *million* times the speed of<BR>
>> light if I haven't dropped a decimal.<BR>
><BR>
> Pah.  The Skylark series has ships which make the lensmen look weak ;)  They<BR>
> never specified exact speed, but inter-galactic travel didn't seem to be a <BR>
> problem by book 4 (nor did blowing up a galaxy...)<BR>
<BR>
Well, the Skylark of Valeron is "overkill" in every universe I've ever<BR>
encountered in SF. Heck, the only bigger ships are the mobile planets<BR>
in the Lensmen stories, and the planet sized *ships* in Fritz Lieber's<BR>
"the Wanderer".<BR>
<BR>
Ooops. I take that back. Some of the ships(?) in Roger MacBride Allen's<BR>
"Charon's Ring" series, and in David Weber's series that starts with<BR>
"The Armageddon Inheritance". <BR>
<BR>
Ringworld doesn't really count since it just sits there (yes, I know it<BR>
*could* be turned into a ship). And the stuff in Ian Banks "Culture"<BR>
books just doesn't "feel" right.<BR>
<BR>
Also, while they did indeed destroy *two* galaxies in "Skylark<BR>
DuQuesne", I still think the planets from Nth Space in "Children of the<BR>
Lens" are more impressive...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:47:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson said,<BR>
><BR>
>> Except that all those nice paradoxes don't care *how* you got from<BR>
>> point A to point B, just that you did so faster than light could make<BR>
>> the same trip.<BR>
><BR>
> Mayhaps I have'nt thought it through enough, but I dont see too many<BR>
> problems with getting to point B before light from point A would.<BR>
<BR>
You missed the point. All that is required to cause problems is for<BR>
info from point A to arrive at point B before light from Point A can.<BR>
<BR>
It's absolutely *guaranteed* that in at least one frame of reference,<BR>
the info will arrive at B before it left A. Which means you have time<BR>
travel. Complete with potential for paradoxes.<BR>
<BR>
It's a matter of the way space and time are *gemoetrically* related. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:52:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm writes:<BR>
>> Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
>> > Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have [over a Trek<BR>
>> > ship]? <BR>
>> <BR>
>> One word: Bridge<BR>
>> <BR>
>> The Trek ships tend to have their command bridges more than slightly<BR>
>> exposed, which is a great disadvantage to exploit.<BR>
><BR>
> Which is mostly irrelevant, since Trek ships don't have armor to<BR>
> speak of.  If you can get through the shields, the location of the<BR>
> bridge is of marginal relevance.<BR>
<BR>
Getting thru the shields isn't *nearly* as helpful as you might think.<BR>
Check out the hull temps reported in some episodes. With *no* harm to<BR>
speak of to the ship.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 21:55:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Of course, there is (or was, it may be out of print now) an Gurps: Lensman<BR>
> book.<BR>
<BR>
It's out of print. Alas, I didn't know it *existed* until a couple<BR>
years ago. If I'd known, I'd have bough one, even though at that time,<BR>
it'd have meant skimping on groceries.<BR>
<BR>
> If a very silly person wanted to, they could use GT to convert the<BR>
> characters and gear in that book to Traveller....<BR>
<BR>
You rang?<BR>
<BR>
Heck, you want *silly*? <BR>
<BR>
The PCs misjump and the nearest thing when the exit jump is a giant<BR>
turtle swimming thru space with 4 elephants on its back, with a large<BR>
disk on *their* back. With a small sun "orbiting" the disk...<BR>
<BR>
More seriously, GURPS Planet Krishna could be swiped for an interesting<BR>
"pocket empire" limited to STL travel when contacted. A minor human<BR>
race, and several humanoid but not human races. <BR>
<BR>
For an evil GM, pick a world on the fringe of the Imperium Prefferable<BR>
one with a lot of "unknown territory" near it and inflict GURPS War<BR>
Against the Chtorr on your players. <BR>
<BR>
Actually, that'd work better on the rimward side of the Solomani...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:05:14 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>><BR>
> 1 parsec = 1 / tan(1/3600) <BR>
> <<<BR>
> I get 1 parsec = 1AU/tan(1/3600) which is not the same as the above.<BR>
><BR>
>>><BR>
> 1 parsec = 1 / (4.848136811e-6)<BR>
> <<<BR>
> How do you get 4.848136811e-6 from tan(1/3600)?<BR>
><BR>
> tan(1/3600) = 2.777777848e-4<BR>
<BR>
Nope.<BR>
<BR>
1/3600 = 2.777777778e-4<BR>
<BR>
tan(2.777777778e-4) = 4.848136811e-6<BR>
<BR>
I think your calculator is broken...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Mike<BR>
><BR>
> Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
> ICQ#27333894<BR>
><BR>
> "Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:08:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> How do you get 4.848136811e-6 from tan(1/3600)?<BR>
>><BR>
>> tan(1/3600) = 2.777777848e-4<BR>
><BR>
> I will bet that one of these is in degrees while the other is in radians.<BR>
> Yep. A quick check shows that the 4.8E-6 is degrees, while the 2.8E-4 is<BR>
> radians. Since we are talking about one arc-second here, the degrees are<BR>
> likely the right way to go.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, from the number of places he's displaying, he's either using<BR>
BASIC or maybe a spreadsheet to do the calcs. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:11:01 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3105<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>1 ParSec<BR>
>>I have done my math and get the following.<BR>
>>that if the base is 2AU and the angle of displacement is 1 sec then 1<BR>
> parsec<BR>
>>should be 2AU /tan(1sec) which equals something more like 4/5 ths of a<BR>
> light<BR>
>>year.<BR>
> 1 parsec = 1 AU/tan(1 sec) - it's actually defined with a base of one<BR>
> second -<BR>
> which is 206,000 AU or so, 3.26 ly.<BR>
> <<<BR>
> OK so what do you mean by the base of one second?<BR>
<BR>
One second of arc. Remember, there's 1 second-of-arc angle involved.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 02:01:37 -0500<BR>
From: Leslie Bates <lesbates@minn.net><BR>
Subject: Picking Nits: (Was, Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long))<BR>
<BR>
At 08:47 PM 9/29/00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>Meeting a Tigress would probably be a religious experience....<BR>
><BR>
>         "Saavaar ti'ilaad!"<BR>
>         "Spock, what did she say?"<BR>
>         "I am unsure, Captain.  The universal translator does not <BR>
>recognize her language."<BR>
>         "It doesn't matter, I'll take our... guest for a stroll... I mean, <BR>
>a tour around the ship.  I'm sure we'll get better acquainted."<BR>
>         "That would be unwise, Captain."<BR>
>         "Whyisthat... Spock?"<BR>
>         "Because she appears to have summoned three armored males of her <BR>
>species."<BR>
>         "Where?"<BR>
>         "They have teleported right behind you..."<BR>
>         *ka-chak! wrrrrrrr...!**ka-chak! wrrrrrrr...!**ka-chak!<BR>
wrrrrrrr...!*<BR>
>         "...and they appear to be armed with plasma weapons of some <BR>
>sort.  It would be logical to assume that she has refused your offer,<BR>
Captain."<BR>
><BR>
>Kirk's first encounter with an Zhodani noblelady might be his last.  And he <BR>
>thought the Kzinti were bad...!<BR>
><BR>
>Sorry for the length of this, I'll go back off the beaten x-boat route,<BR>
now. =)<BR>
><BR>
>Cheers<BR>
<BR>
[NITPICKING MODE ON]<BR>
<BR>
Funny, I thought the TIGRESS (the really honking big happy fun ball) was an<BR>
Imperial design.<BR>
<BR>
[NITPICKING MODE OFF]<BR>
<BR>
But it's the thought that counts, eh?<BR>
<BR>
Les<BR>
<BR>
====================================<BR>
Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>
==================================== <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3109<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3110</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/30/00 9:18:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 30 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3110<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Picking Nits: (Was, Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long))<BR>
Re: 1 parsec<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Filk, filk, filk, filk, egg, sausages & filk<BR>
RE: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
Re: Speed of Light/Parsec (and heresy)<BR>
Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
Re: Striker nukes<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
Re: Military Experience on the TML <BR>
"Class" Vehicles<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
RE: Trav - Trek crossover<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Heaven & Earth V1.0.4 released<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 01:47:07 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Picking Nits: (Was, Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long))<BR>
<BR>
>[NITPICKING MODE ON]<BR>
><BR>
>Funny, I thought the TIGRESS (the really honking big happy fun ball) was an<BR>
>Imperial design.<BR>
><BR>
>[NITPICKING MODE OFF]<BR>
><BR>
>But it's the thought that counts, eh?<BR>
<BR>
The Tigress is an Imperial design. The bit about the Tigress which you<BR>
included in your post was from the previous example (starting with "Tuvok"<BR>
and ending with "Tom, get us out of here...!").<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:04:51 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Nope.<BR>
<BR>
1/3600 = 2.777777778e-4<BR>
<BR>
tan(2.777777778e-4) = 4.848136811e-6<BR>
<BR>
I think your calculator is broken...<BR>
<BR>
<<<BR>
<BR>
Nope wrong again, it was my mistake, and I am not affraid to admit it. It<BR>
has been a long week for me.....my calculator was operating in radians.<BR>
<BR>
Allthough my time is not completely wasted; I now know that 1 parsec is<BR>
equal to 1AU/ tan(1').<BR>
Also I know that the relative velocity of a Starship is equal to something<BR>
like, the jump size * 169, times the speed of light. It does this by somehow<BR>
punching an hole in space.<BR>
<BR>
I like the 'punching hole', theory.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 01:51:56 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
an Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
>         Disclaimer: the following opinions are based on my impressions<BR>
>         of the Star Trek universe, and are not official.   :)<BR>
<BR>
I wrote almost all the tech for all of the now defunct LUGs Star Trek <BR>
game, perhaps I can help.<BR>
 <BR>
>         In open space, the Trek ship would be invulnerable to the Trav<BR>
>         ship merely by maintaining superluminal speeds.  In stellar<BR>
>         systems, where Warp drives seems to be dangerous to use, at<BR>
>         least the Trav ship could spot the Trek ship.  Even here, Trek<BR>
>         ships can apparently reach relitivistic speeds on short order<BR>
>         and change vector extremely quickly (inertia does not seem to<BR>
>         be a problem).  This, combined with sensors that operate at<BR>
>         superluminal speeds, would make Trek ships almost impossible<BR>
>         to hit unless they were ignoring the Trav ship.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed.  Warp Drive means Trek ships can outrun any attack from <BR>
a Traveller ship.  Even on Impulse drive, Trek ships can achieve <BR>
near light speed in at most an hour or two, and even the slow ships <BR>
have a max impulse speed of 0.25-0.5 C, which they can achieve in <BR>
a short time (don't even think about what sort of accelerations they <BR>
are using, its well over 1,000 Gs. <BR>
<BR>
>         The matter-antimatter reactors on Trek ships presumably<BR>
>         produce far more power than similar-sized Trav fusion power<BR>
>         plants. In fact, Trek Impulse Engines may be considered at<BR>
>         least as powerful as Trav Power Plant + Maneuver Drive (and<BR>
>         Trek Impulse Engines are considered wimpy in that milieu). <BR>
>         Trek photon torpedos are antimatter bombs that are fired at<BR>
>         superluminal speeds, making them more powerful than nuclear<BR>
>         missiles and impossible to hit with point- defense weapons. <BR>
>         Phasers are also superluminal weapons that are more powerful<BR>
>         than lasers.  How they relate to other Trav weaponry is harder<BR>
>         to assess, but I would expect them to be superior to<BR>
>         everything except _possibly_ meson guns.<BR>
<BR>
Photon Torpedos are *fast* FTL (faster than any normal Trek ship), <BR>
however, phasers are light speed.  However, in TNG a phaser rifle <BR>
on its highest setting is about equivalent to a normal Traveller laser <BR>
turret.  Even in TOS, Starship phasers can knock out (and so likely <BR>
also vaporize) numerous city blocks in one shot.  <BR>
<BR>
Even the largest, most heavily armed Traveller ship is a pathetically <BR>
slow, shieldless sitting duck for *any* Trek ship.  I'm certain a DS:9 <BR>
Runabout could take any Traveller ship with a great deal of ease.  <BR>
All they need do is make high speed passes shooting all the way, <BR>
and then head out of range, wait, and make another pass.  The <BR>
Traveller ship would not even be able to see the runabout coming <BR>
until it was already leaving.  Also, a Runabout can outrun any <BR>
Traveller weapon, including lasers.  Runabouts have phasers, 4 <BR>
photo torpedos, shields, a cruising speed of 392x light speed, and <BR>
a maximum speed of 1,024x light speed.  It's also the 2nd smallest <BR>
starship the Federation makes.  <BR>
<BR>
The only thing a Traveller ship could do in return is to jump to <BR>
safety.  Victory would simply not be an option except against aging <BR>
impulse-only freighters. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspringcom <BR>
<BR>
     <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 01:57:00 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
At 4:56 PM -0500 9/29/00, John Groth wrote:<BR>
>Meanwhile, the denizens of the 3I are not hamstrung by the quaint<BR>
>concept of the "Prime Directive."  Further, Traveller PCs tend to be<BR>
>far more ruthless than anyone in Starfleet.  These two factors point<BR>
>to an immense psychological and tactical advantage for the crew of a<BR>
>Trav ship over the crew of a Trek ship.<BR>
<BR>
Except that it only applies to civilizations not capable of FTL travel. <BR>
A TL 8 Traveller world visited by a Trek ship would be safe, a Trek <BR>
starship meeting a Traveller starship or TL9+ world would be at no <BR>
such disadvantage.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:31:16 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: Filk, filk, filk, filk, egg, sausages & filk<BR>
<BR>
For some reason, I have this idea that "The Devil went down to Georgia"<BR>
has been done as a Traveller filk. <BR>
<BR>
If not it it should be :<BR>
<BR>
"Dulinor went down to Sylea <BR>
He was looking for a throne to steal..."<BR>
<BR>
Or words to that effect.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:49:12 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
Trevor, Peter wrote :<BR>
> Michael Scanlon wrote:<BR>
> > Cornish pasties are my favourite, with extra black pepper.<BR>
> > hmmmm freshly baked.<BR>
><BR>
> Much better than the package stuff you get.<BR>
><BR>
> > I wodner what would be the constuents of an olde traditional<BR>
> > Traveller's pie?<BR>
<BR>
If anyone suggests that BITS put out a "101 Pies" supplement, I'll shoot<BR>
them.<BR>
<BR>
And if anyone even thinks about a spreadsheet for designing pies based on<BR>
PP&M2*...<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
(* PP&M2 = "Pastry, Peas & Meat 2", the TNE version of the classic pie<BR>
combat and design manual )<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:50:09 +1200<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote :<BR>
> After a long hiatus, I will be plunging back into work on the "Mercenaries<BR>
> Guide to Weapons" (http://www.travellerguns.com).<BR>
><BR>
> My question for the list is:<BR>
><BR>
> What is the preferred format for weapons data?<BR>
<BR>
XML<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:34:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Speed of Light/Parsec (and heresy)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         I have been playing around with my 3D mapping system for MTU, and so<BR>
> far the scale that is working out the best is with each subsector being a<BR>
> cube 40 LY or 12 parsecs on a side.  When displaying the positions of the<BR>
> stars, however, a parsec is really too coarse a measure for my purposes.<BR>
> Plotting the positions of the stars on the maps works out far better with a<BR>
> 40x40 grid than with a 12x12 one.<BR>
<BR>
So? Use deci-parsecs. That gives you a 120x120 grid. And you'll be able<BR>
to have more fun wirth the "sorry, but that systems *just* out of<BR>
range" bit. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Or just do stuff like "it's 4.7 parsecs away"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:45:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> One day I backed up the files prior to reformatting my  harddisk.<BR>
> After I had reformated my HD I discovered my  backup  device  was<BR>
> faulty and all files were irretrievably corrupt.<BR>
<BR>
This is why "standard practice" at busineses is:<BR>
<BR>
1. backup<BR>
2. verify backup<BR>
<BR>
If the backup program doesn't havce a "verify" option (ie compare files<BR>
on backup to files on HD *after* the backup is complete, not *during*<BR>
the backup) then it's garbage. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:48:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Striker nukes<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Ludowick@aol.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> There was an article (two parts, I think) in an old JTAS that had what<BR>
>> it stated was a more accurate nuke table (with bigger nukes included),<BR>
>> but I think it seriously underestimated what you need to crack a planet.<BR>
><BR>
> No idea what it said.  I'd suggest looking at the Federation of American <BR>
> Scientist's nuclear weapons page, at http://www.fas.org/nuke/hew/index.html .<BR>
><BR>
> As a rule of thumb, though, assume a ten-fold increase in yield doubles all<BR>
> of the relevant diameters.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, the "rule of thumb" is that blast damage increases as the<BR>
*cube root* of the yield. That is, the blast damage X yards from a 1<BR>
kiloton device is the same as the damage at 10X yards from a 1 megaton<BR>
device. <BR>
<BR>
If you want to get technical, the figure is that the effects go as the<BR>
1/3.4 power of the yield. that's based on nuke blasts and studies of<BR>
impact craters. <BR>
<BR>
That works out at 1.968 per tenfold ncrease... gee, that rule of thumb<BR>
isn't as bad as I thought! <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 22:41:51 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         In open space, the Trek ship would be invulnerable to the Trav ship<BR>
>         merely by maintaining superluminal speeds.  In stellar systems,<BR>
>         where Warp drives seems to be dangerous to use, at least the Trav<BR>
>         ship could spot the Trek ship.  Even here, Trek ships can apparently<BR>
>         reach relitivistic speeds on short order and change vector extremely<BR>
>         quickly (inertia does not seem to be a problem).  This, combined<BR>
>         with sensors that opperate at superluminal speeds, would make<BR>
>         Trek ships almost impossible to hit unless they were ignoring the<BR>
>         Trav ship.<BR>
<BR>
That's ok. A meson gun will wake them up. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 06:33:42 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 5:24 PM<BR>
To: TML<BR>
Subject: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Greetings all.<BR>
<BR>
After a long hiatus, I will be plunging back into work on the "Mercenaries<BR>
Guide to Weapons" (http://www.travellerguns.com).<BR>
<BR>
My question for the list is:<BR>
<BR>
What is the preferred format for weapons data?  MT, CT etc.  Are there any<BR>
conversion guides for moving designs to GT?<BR>
<BR>
I've been playing with G3G and FFS2 and have developed a hybrid system that<BR>
seems pretty accurate in reproducing RL weapons accross a broad range (FFS2<BR>
doesn't handle extremes very well).  What data is useful?<BR>
<BR>
Right now I generate muzzle energy, cartridge dimensions, weapon length and<BR>
mass and a variety of other data of interest only to gun hyper-gearheads.<BR>
<BR>
Being a CT ref, I'm not really familiar with MT, T4 or CT weapons design.  I<BR>
know that T4 uses energy to determine damage.  What data is useful for<BR>
conversion of a given weapon into your favorite Traveller version?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Tod Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
- --<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 07:00:16 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
Whoops. Sorry about that last post (same subject line). I suffered a dog<BR>
attack on my arm, which had the effect of causing me to prematurely send me<BR>
response.<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>What is the preferred format for weapons data?<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I would like to see stuff in a GURPS format.<BR>
<BR>
Alternately, you could use a generic format, which classes weapons<BR>
descriptively. For example, general pistol sizes could be as follows:<BR>
<BR>
little wuss-pistol<BR>
light pistol<BR>
medium pistol<BR>
heavy pistol<BR>
a pistol so big that only a petite female anime character will be able to<BR>
properly wield it<BR>
<BR>
The same thing could be done for damage:<BR>
<BR>
less effective than a water pistol<BR>
pea-shooter<BR>
potato-gun<BR>
BB-gun<BR>
high powered BB-gun<BR>
low<BR>
medium<BR>
heavy<BR>
extremely deadly<BR>
elephant-killing<BR>
tank-killing<BR>
world-killing<BR>
so extreme that only a petite female anime character has a chance of<BR>
surviving<BR>
<BR>
Under this system, for example, your average pistol would look like this:<BR>
<BR>
A medium pistol which deals out medium damage.<BR>
<BR>
A deringer would like this:<BR>
<BR>
A little wuss-pistol which deals out low damage.<BR>
<BR>
The gun which Will Smith in "Men In Black" fired would look like this:<BR>
<BR>
A little wuss-pistol which dishes out elephant-killing damage.<BR>
<BR>
This system allows various combinations, from little wuss-pistols which dish<BR>
out damage so extreme that only a petite female anime character has a chance<BR>
of surviving, through to pistols which are so big that only a petite female<BR>
anime character will be able to wield them, but which are less effective<BR>
than water pistols.<BR>
<BR>
You get the idea.<BR>
<BR>
The real strength of this system is that damages can be adjusted to suit<BR>
specific campaigns. Space-opera buffs, for example, might give higher or<BR>
lower numerical damage ratings depending on style.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, this system has one major drawback: it favors petite female anime<BR>
characters over all other sorts of characters. This is, unfortunately,<BR>
necessary. One way of balancing this would be to interpret these rules very<BR>
strictly. A petite impressionist female, for purposes of game balance,<BR>
should not be allowed to wield very large pistols. That would be unrealistic<BR>
(if not downright stupid). Similarly, petite Disney females should not be<BR>
capable of withstanding more than world-killing damage, at best.<BR>
<BR>
In addition, "female" is a sex classification and not a gender<BR>
classification. A petite anime male who has somehow changed his gender<BR>
simply cannot be treated as an anime female for the purposes of these rules.<BR>
This means, of course, that petite anime males who were raised in certain<BR>
Northwestern American Indian tribes are not to be considered female under<BR>
these rules.<BR>
<BR>
Be warned that this creates certain problems with existing canon. The<BR>
fighting forces of the Aslan would be, under this system, female not male.<BR>
Petite aslan females would be able to wield the heaviest weapons as well as<BR>
shrug off massive amounts of damage. If you wish to sacrifice realism for<BR>
the sake of canon, you might consider a house rule which precludes aslan<BR>
females from being petite.<BR>
<BR>
However, any rules concerning aslan females and comfortable shoes should<BR>
remain unchanged.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 22:31:17 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
Then there's always the Exploding Control Panel Problem...<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 13:07:17 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK & Hard Times')<BR>
>><BR>
<BR>
Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Confusingly, we have wine coolers here too eg Castaway. It's not quite the<BR>
> same thing, but I'm not really sure how to explain the differance. We<BR>
(well,<BR>
> I at least) tend to think of alcopops as being alocoholic drinks actually<BR>
> targetted at teenagers. Their popularity with the 18-24 demographic keeps<BR>
> them from being banned as a cynical marketting ploy to create a new<BR>
> generation of alcoholics, however. But then I'm just a miserable old cynic<BR>
<BR>
<<<BR>
<BR>
have you ever had a mix of the winecooler, Castaway, which is quite weak,<BR>
something like 3.2% alcohol, and also very sweet; with a white cider,<BR>
Diamond White, not too strong, something like 7.2% alcohol, quite dry. When<BR>
mixed together you would think you were drinking Lilt, with the totally<BR>
tropical taste. It's a WIZ. You can keep on drinking these all night long.<BR>
Waht a fruity combination, back in my drinking days..... fond memories....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 13:14:06 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML <BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: Military Experience on the TML<BR>
>><BR>
<BR>
>From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
>Subject: Military Experience on the TML (was RE: Penguins)<BR>
><BR>
>Am I alone in having no military experience and being on the TML?<BR>
<BR>
Nope - I went to college when it was still affordable, at a college<BR>
that did not have ROTC, got hired immediately after graduation, and the next<BR>
thing I knew, 15 years had flashed by...wasn't it the 1980's just the other<BR>
day??    Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
<<<BR>
Would you believ it, I feel just the same way, though I am just starting at<BR>
college after a short military affair in the British Army.<BR>
Was in the Army fixing aircraft for the Navy, so had a little experience of<BR>
all three services.<BR>
I wonder, now that I am at college, will the next 15 years go as quick as<BR>
the last, or even faster?<BR>
I t has been an hard life, but I wouldn't say it has been a wasted one.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 05:40:39 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: "Class" Vehicles<BR>
<BR>
Okay, this is something that has bothered me since I first started<BR>
playing Traveller back in 1982, and I have seen it creep into other<BR>
games (mostly games my little brother would play, like Rifts and that<BR>
Japanese Mecha one who's name escapes me).<BR>
<BR>
Small craft and vehicles are not refered to as X-class.  We do not have<BR>
Abrams-class tanks.  We do not have Tomcat-class fighters.  They are<BR>
simply refered to as the Abrams and Tomcat respectively (or the M1A1<BR>
and F-14).  So, when I see Trepida-class grav tank, for instance, it<BR>
makes my teeth grind; it sounds juvenile, and makes me wonder if the<BR>
designer/editor has ever done any actual research.<BR>
<BR>
Class is used in reference to ships, so yes you would have<BR>
Gazelle-class close escorts.  The British and some other navies also<BR>
have "types" IIRC, hence the Type-T Patrol Cruiser sounds kosher.  But,<BR>
you would not have a "Ram-class pickup truck."  <BR>
<BR>
Armored fighting vehicles are usually given a designation (M1A1, Mk IV,<BR>
F-14), and occasionally a familiar name (Abrams, Tomcat).  If the first<BR>
Abrams tank was called the Abrams, and all subsequent tanks of that<BR>
lineage bore names such as Sherman, Sheridan, Powell, et. al., then yes<BR>
you could have an argument for having an Abrams class, but as that is<BR>
not the case using "-class" is just plain silly.<BR>
<BR>
Now I'll get off my soapbox and back to 101 vehicles.<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
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Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:29:27 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
The main advantage Trav ships have over Trek ships is  that  Trek<BR>
ships don't have circuit breakers: every time a major  system  is<BR>
hit  on  a  Trek  ship  the  corresponding  bridge  console  (and<BR>
sometimes a few others besides) explode in a  shower  of  sparks,<BR>
hurtling a hapless crewman across the bridge.  (And  Trek  bridge<BR>
seats don't have seatbelts!)<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:38:12 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott wrote:<BR>
> "We come in peace from the United Federation of Planets.  I'm <BR>
> Captain Jean-Luc Picard." *face breaks into that actually rather<BR>
> charming, I'm-British-but-I'm-acting-French smile* "And who might<BR>
> you be?"<BR>
><BR>
> "Hi!  I'm Ditzie!"<BR>
><BR>
> You've got to almost feel sorry for them.<BR>
<BR>
ROFLOL.  That's a keyboard kill.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 14:53:45 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow) wrote:<BR>
> This is why "standard practice" at busineses is:<BR>
><BR>
> 1. backup<BR>
> 2. verify backup<BR>
<BR>
I know that *now*!  Actually you  might  be  surprised  how  many<BR>
major companies *don't* follow this.  On a variation: I  remember<BR>
once asking a mainframe  operator  (who's  daily  tasks  involved<BR>
taking backups) to  restore  a  file  from  backup.  He  refused,<BR>
admitting he  didn't  know  how  'cos  he  hadn't  received  that<BR>
training yet.  This was at a large multinational corporation.  It<BR>
seems that backups are something you do "'cos you're supposed to"<BR>
but verifying  those  backups  or  restoring  from  them  is  not<BR>
something that is thought about much.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 10:35:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav - Trek crossover<BR>
<BR>
Peter Trevor posted forth:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>If the Trek ship's captain believe they are dealing with  a  pre-<BR>
>warp civilisation then he may be legally limited in his range  of<BR>
>responses.<BR>
<BR>
        Not if it's Kirk!<BR>
<BR>
        ;)<BR>
<BR>
Ian<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 08:35:19 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Agreed.  Warp Drive means Trek ships can outrun any attack from <BR>
> a Traveller ship.  Even on Impulse drive, Trek ships can achieve <BR>
> near light speed in at most an hour or two, and even the slow ships <BR>
> have a max impulse speed of 0.25-0.5 C, which they can achieve in <BR>
> a short time (don't even think about what sort of accelerations they <BR>
> are using, its well over 1,000 Gs. <BR>
<BR>
Wow, so with an impulse powered lifeboat, you could wreck a planet in the<BR>
Trek universe in a fraction of the time it would take a thruster powered<BR>
lifeboat in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:29:03 +0100<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Heaven & Earth V1.0.4 released<BR>
<BR>
Heaven & Earth V1.0.4 has been released. Download details can be found at<BR>
the Heaven & Earth website:-<BR>
<BR>
http://www.downport.com/wbd/HEAVEN_&_EARTH.htm<BR>
<BR>
Updates to the new program include:-<BR>
<BR>
1) H&E Sector File Format introduced. Allows for implementation of Travel<BR>
Zones.<BR>
<BR>
2) Command Line Argument added. Users can run program and add a UWP to end<BR>
of Command Line.<BR>
<BR>
3) File Associations added for WBS and DTA files. This allows users to run<BR>
H&E by selecting one of these files. The contents of the file is then loaded<BR>
into the program.<BR>
<BR>
4) 'Trade Route Calculator' and associated routines added.This allows users<BR>
to generate Trade Routes in accordance with GURPS Far Trader rules.<BR>
<BR>
5) 'Preview Sector Map' added. This allows the user to view the full Sector<BR>
Map prior to printing or saving.<BR>
<BR>
6) ' Load Details' option added. This allows the user to load any H&E System<BR>
DTA file manually.<BR>
<BR>
7) User can now select the graphic file format for Sector, System and World<BR>
maps. Supported graphic file formats are BMP, GIF, JPG, PCX, PNG, TIF.<BR>
<BR>
8) Screen did not reset to System/World view when 'Cancel' selected during<BR>
'Save Details'. This has now been fixed.<BR>
<BR>
9) Die Mods were added to Subordinate World Population calculations instead<BR>
of subtracted. This has now been fixed.<BR>
<BR>
10) Die Mods were calculated for Subordinate World Size based on System<BR>
position rather than Orbit position. This meant that Subordinate Worlds<BR>
never had a Size greater than 2. This has now been fixed.<BR>
<BR>
I have still to convert the existing WBS files to the new HES format. I<BR>
would appreciate some volunteers to undertake this task for me. The best way<BR>
to convert the files so that they contain Travel Zone data is to convert<BR>
existing UWP or SEC files which can be obtained from<BR>
http://traveller.mu.org/.<BR>
<BR>
*NOTE* Please remember that UWP and SEC files have to be converted into the<BR>
MSDOS text format before they can be used with H&E.<BR>
<BR>
If you have any problems running the program please refer to the Read Me<BR>
file.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3110<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3111</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	9/30/00 7:23:22 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Saturday, September 30 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3111<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Filk, filk, filk, filk, egg, sausages & filk<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
For Sale<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
Re: [WBDMailingList] H&E Update 30th September 2000<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR>
Re: [WBDMailingList] H&E Update 30th September 2000<BR>
For Striker: Mobile Anti-Armor Mine<BR>
RE: For Striker: Mobile Anti-Armor Mine<BR>
Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Jump speed.<BR>
Re: 1 parsec<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:11:27<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Filk, filk, filk, filk, egg, sausages & filk<BR>
<BR>
At 09:31 PM 9/30/2000 +1200, you wrote:<BR>
>For some reason, I have this idea that "The Devil went down to Georgia"<BR>
>has been done as a Traveller filk. <BR>
><BR>
>If not it it should be :<BR>
><BR>
>"Dulinor went down to Sylea <BR>
>He was looking for a throne to steal..."<BR>
><BR>
>Or words to that effect.<BR>
<BR>
I tried that one a while back, and the scansion was horrible.  I may look<BR>
at it again someday.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 11:13:35 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
At 04:50 AM 09/30/2000, you wrote:<BR>
>Tod Glenn wrote :<BR>
>> After a long hiatus, I will be plunging back into work on the "Mercenaries<BR>
>> Guide to Weapons" (http://www.travellerguns.com).<BR>
>><BR>
>> My question for the list is:<BR>
>><BR>
>> What is the preferred format for weapons data?<BR>
<BR>
MT them GURPS<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 11:27:21 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 30 Sep 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The main advantage Trav ships have over Trek ships is  that  Trek<BR>
> ships don't have circuit breakers: every time a major  system  is<BR>
> hit  on  a  Trek  ship  the  corresponding  bridge  console  (and<BR>
> sometimes a few others besides) explode in a  shower  of  sparks,<BR>
> hurtling a hapless crewman across the bridge.  (And  Trek  bridge<BR>
> seats don't have seatbelts!)<BR>
<BR>
Those are actually bridge hits with very weak meson guns.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 09:32:06<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: For Sale<BR>
<BR>
While cleaning out the storage boxes, I found several issues of The<BR>
Traveller Chronicle.  Since I don't do TNE, I'm willing to sell them for<BR>
best offer over $20 plus shipping.<BR>
<BR>
I have issues 5-9 avalible, with two copies of issue 7.  I'm selling them<BR>
as a set.<BR>
<BR>
Please reply to me at my home address, let's not clutter up the list with<BR>
replies.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 00:30:00 +0800<BR>
From: Nattrass <wulfren@opera.iinet.net.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
>Also, a Runabout can outrun any<BR>
>Traveller weapon, including lasers.  Runabouts have phasers, 4<BR>
>photo torpedos, shields, a cruising speed of 392x light speed, and<BR>
>a maximum speed of 1,024x light speed.  It's also the 2nd smallest<BR>
>starship the Federation makes.<BR>
<BR>
Why would it bother, its been pointed out that the navigational deflector <BR>
on federations starships are capable of deflecting laser weapons.<BR>
If a trav starship had surprise on its side however it may stand a chance, <BR>
it seems that trek doesn't seem to like fighting or communicating at ranges <BR>
larger and a kilometer or more, I'm pretty sure that a small volley of <BR>
contact detonation nukes, would be effective at damaging the shielding of <BR>
the runabout, and destroying yourself.<BR>
Although if my memory of the original series serves correctly plasma <BR>
weapons were used by the romulans to hurt kirks indestructible ship, and <BR>
wasn't it the firey that stocked 2 x 75mj VRF plasma cannons.<BR>
that may be able to take out a shuttle *shugs*<BR>
Ultimately trek will win because of Wesley.<BR>
<BR>
I'd personally be more interested in a meeting of master of orion 2 ships <BR>
and trav ships.<BR>
least that has a basis of reasonable comparison.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 00:39:30 +0800<BR>
From: Nattrass <wulfren@opera.iinet.net.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
>The main advantage Trav ships have over Trek ships is  that  Trek<BR>
>ships don't have circuit breakers: every time a major  system  is<BR>
>hit  on  a  Trek  ship  the  corresponding  bridge  console  (and<BR>
>sometimes a few others besides) explode in a  shower  of  sparks,<BR>
>hurtling a hapless crewman across the bridge.  (And  Trek  bridge<BR>
>seats don't have seatbelts!)<BR>
<BR>
Of course their chairs dont have seatbelts<BR>
its proven that a standard crewman will take worse injuries on impact if <BR>
their strapped into a chair rather than free to use their own athletic <BR>
prowess to jump around and make strange noises (TNE pg 287)<BR>
common sense really<BR>
; )<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 07:45:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
Hehehehe standard upgrade practice:<BR>
<BR>
1) Get required software/hardware<BR>
2) Perform a backup (with verify on)<BR>
3) test it (restore some files off it to some other location)<BR>
4) Perform a backup (with verify on)<BR>
5) test it (restore some files off it to some other location)<BR>
6) Perform a backup (with verify on)<BR>
7) test it (restore some files off it to some other location)<BR>
8) Preform upgrade with fingers, toes and other body parts crossed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2000 11:45 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller Weapons Data Format<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> One day I backed up the files prior to reformatting my  harddisk.<BR>
> After I had reformated my HD I discovered my  backup  device  was<BR>
> faulty and all files were irretrievably corrupt.<BR>
<BR>
This is why "standard practice" at busineses is:<BR>
<BR>
1. backup<BR>
2. verify backup<BR>
<BR>
If the backup program doesn't havce a "verify" option (ie compare files<BR>
on backup to files on HD *after* the backup is complete, not *during*<BR>
the backup) then it's garbage. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 13:34:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
<BR>
John Snead writes:<BR>
>>Disclaimer: the following opinions are based on my impressions<BR>
>>of the Star Trek universe, and are not official.   :)<BR>
>I wrote almost all the tech for all of the now defunct LUGs Star Trek <BR>
>game, perhaps I can help.<BR>
<BR>
        I must admit that I have only played the FASA version.  I will<BR>
        have to remember you next time I am looking for advice on <BR>
        running Trek.  :)<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Photon Torpedos are *fast* FTL (faster than any normal Trek ship), <BR>
>however, phasers are light speed.<BR>
<BR>
        Photon Torpedos must be fast enough to hit ships moving at<BR>
        Warp speeds, but I presume that they are slower than sensor<BR>
        beams since you can see them coming.  Wouldn't ship-<BR>
        mounted phasers have to be at least as fast?  They do<BR>
        seem to go faster than Photon Torpedos in the shows and<BR>
        movies (FASA allowed limited evasion of Photon Torpedos.<BR>
        Using the Warp^3 c rule, they had subspace radio going<BR>
        Warp 15: I took this to be the maximum speed of "Warped<BR>
        light."  Thus I put sensors and Phasers at Warp 15, Photon<BR>
        Torpedos somewhat slower).<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 13:36:31 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
<BR>
Peter Trevor writes:<BR>
>The main advantage Trav ships have over Trek ships is  that  Trek<BR>
>ships don't have circuit breakers: every time a major  system  is<BR>
>hit  on  a  Trek  ship  the  corresponding  bridge  console  (and<BR>
>sometimes a few others besides) explode in a  shower  of  sparks,<BR>
>hurtling a hapless crewman across the bridge.  (And  Trek  bridge<BR>
>seats don't have seatbelts!)<BR>
<BR>
        An even greater advantage that Trav ships have: none of the<BR>
        crew wear those red shirts that seem to attract so much<BR>
        harm.<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 19:20:34 +0100<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [WBDMailingList] H&E Update 30th September 2000<BR>
<BR>
>I had a problem: an access violation was reported while trying to install<BR>
>SHDOCW.DLL. After several attempts (closing down all programs), I had to<BR>
>click ignore to get the installation to complete. It doesn't seem to have<BR>
>done any damage (and the Jump Routes function works brilliantly), but I<BR>
>thought I'd better let you know<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, I forgot to take SHDOCVW.DLL out of the Installation program. I have<BR>
uploaded a new version which has it removed.<BR>
<BR>
This problem is one fo the reasons I have to distribute H&E without<BR>
SHDOCVW.DLL. Apparently you need a licence to distribute this file.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone else who has downloaded the initial upload (size 5.8Mb instead of<BR>
5.2Mb) simply do the same as Darren and ignore installation of the<BR>
SHDOCVW.DLL.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:24:02 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com <sneadj@mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<< I wrote almost all the tech for all of the now defunct LUGs Star Trek<BR>
game, perhaps I can help. >><BR>
<BR>
    Funny thing that, I own all of the LUGTrek Books & I don't see one John<BR>
Snead listed as a member of the Last Unicorn Games Staff.  You are not in<BR>
the ST:TNG Core Book, you are not in ST:DS9 Core Book, you are not in the<BR>
ST:TOS Core Book, nor are you listed in my playtester's copy of SpaceDock.<BR>
And, as for the man who wrote almost all of the tech for the LUGTrek game<BR>
that would be several people; Ross Issacs, Steve Long, Ken Hite, Chris<BR>
Moore, & S. John Ross.<BR>
    So my question is, who in the heck are you?<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 12:25:53 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com <sneadj@mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<< Except that it only applies to civilizations not capable of FTL travel.<BR>
A TL 8 Traveller world visited by a Trek ship would be safe, a Trek starship<BR>
meeting a Traveller starship or TL9+ world would be at no such disadvantage.<BR>
>><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Paramount has always stated that the Prime Directive only applies to<BR>
civilizations on capable of space travel, or a member of a Star Spaning<BR>
Nation.  So a TL8 Traveller World would be able to be contacted.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:29:09 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> Small craft and vehicles are not refered to as X-class.  We do not have<BR>
> Abrams-class tanks.  We do not have Tomcat-class fighters.  They are<BR>
> simply refered to as the Abrams and Tomcat respectively (or the M1A1<BR>
> and F-14).  So, when I see Trepida-class grav tank, for instance, it<BR>
> makes my teeth grind; it sounds juvenile, and makes me wonder if the<BR>
> designer/editor has ever done any actual research.<BR>
<BR>
What you say is indeed true... in the US. If you want to use US-styled<BR>
designations for craft and vehicles, then you should drop the "class."<BR>
If you don't visualize the 3I as similiar to the US, there's really no<BR>
need to drop it, since designations might be different.<BR>
<BR>
> Now I'll get off my soapbox and back to 101 vehicles.<BR>
<BR>
And I'll get off my soapbox as well.<BR>
<BR>
Note: The soap in my soapbox is not made in the US.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 17:00:22 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: [WBDMailingList] H&E Update 30th September 2000<BR>
<BR>
At 01:20 PM 09/30/2000, you wrote:<BR>
>>I had a problem: an access violation was reported while trying to install<BR>
>>SHDOCW.DLL. After several attempts (closing down all programs), I had to<BR>
>>click ignore to get the installation to complete. It doesn't seem to have<BR>
>>done any damage (and the Jump Routes function works brilliantly), but I<BR>
>>thought I'd better let you know<BR>
><BR>
>Sorry, I forgot to take SHDOCVW.DLL out of the Installation program. I have<BR>
>uploaded a new version which has it removed.<BR>
><BR>
>This problem is one fo the reasons I have to distribute H&E without<BR>
>SHDOCVW.DLL. Apparently you need a licence to distribute this file.<BR>
><BR>
>Anyone else who has downloaded the initial upload (size 5.8Mb instead of<BR>
>5.2Mb) simply do the same as Darren and ignore installation of the<BR>
>SHDOCVW.DLL.<BR>
><BR>
>Stuart Ferris<BR>
>stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
>http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Stuart,<BR>
<BR>
When I go to the site:http://www.downport.com/wbd/HEAVEN_&_EARTH.htm<BR>
or http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Heaven_and_Earth/HEAVEN_and_EARTH.html I can not find the download link. the first url does not have what the second url has, but neither have a download link that I am able to find. Using IE 5.0 and Winblows 98.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:11:40 EDT<BR>
From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
Subject: For Striker: Mobile Anti-Armor Mine<BR>
<BR>
A-1 Armament Industries bids you politely greet: MAAM<BR>
<BR>
The Mobile Anti-Armor Mine system.<BR>
<BR>
A small ROV, fitted with an upward firing demolition shaped charge, <BR>
intended to exploit the soft white underbelly of modern grav AFVs.<BR>
Grav modules powered by batteries provide its mobility.  Fitted with<BR>
a wire guidance package.  For flexibility, it is fired by command or <BR>
proximity fuse, at the user's option.  Inspired by the WWII German <BR>
"Goliath".  Has some waste space if you want to put more batteries in <BR>
for extended endurance (drives cost up).<BR>
<BR>
A-1 Armament Industries (not afraid to invent a petard, to hoist itself<BR>
by).<BR>
<BR>
Suggested rules: It should get a -1 size DM, and can probably use cover<BR>
and evasion, like infantry, for a total DM of -3.  The DM should also <BR>
apply to spotting rolls.  Must "underrun" a vehicle to attack.  If spotted,<BR>
target should probably get at least one shot at it before it goes off.<BR>
Note that some weapon mounts may not be able to depress low enough to <BR>
snipe at it, though.  Do you think it's small enough to get a -2 size DM?<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
MAAM mobile anti-armor mine (TL-10)<BR>
<BR>
This vehicle has a crew of 0.  It mounts an upward firing shaped demolition<BR>
charge on the chassis deck.  Height: 0.1 (+ 0.2 m demo charge).  Length: <BR>
0.35 m.  Width: 0.3 m.  Total volume: 0.0105 m^3.  Weight: 0.0336 tons.  <BR>
Alas, it won't float.  Price: Cr 942. <BR>
<BR>
Movement:  Maximum speed: 540 kph/450 cm.  Cruise: 405 kph/337 cm.  <BR>
NOE: 40 kph/33 cm.  Above values assume 1 standard Earth gravity; <BR>
on Mongo (0.375G) speeds are Max: 1200 kph/1000 cm.  Cruise: 900 kph/<BR>
750 cm.  NOE: 40 kph/33 cm.  Endurance: 20 turns.<BR>
<BR>
Movement effects on fire: N/A<BR>
<BR>
Armor: Composites.  Hull front, sides, rear, belly, & deck: 2.<BR>
<BR>
Target size DMs: Low: -1.  High: -1 (demo charge).<BR>
<BR>
Equipment: Wire guidance package.<BR>
<BR>
Weapons: The upward firing shaped demolition charge is fitted with a<BR>
proximity fuse, and may also be detonated by command-link (wire).  <BR>
<BR>
Its penetration is 54, and automatically hits the target's belly, if the<BR>
MAAM survives to underrun the target vehicle.  Max range is 10 km (from <BR>
the operator).<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------<BR>
Design details:<BR>
<BR>
Hull: 0.35 m long, 0.3 m wide, 0.1 m high.  Hull volume = 0.0105 m^3<BR>
Configuration: vertical front, sides & rear.  <BR>
    Available volume = 0.0105 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Hull Armor: Composite.  Volume = 0.00085 m^3  Weight = 0.0085 tons  <BR>
    Cost = Cr 6  Remaining volume = 0.00965 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Front = 0.25cm thick (AV 2), 0.000075 m^3.<BR>
Sides = 0.25cm thick (AV 2), 0.000175 m^3.<BR>
Rear = 0.25cm thick (AV 2), 0.000075 m^3.<BR>
Deck = 0.25cm thick (AV 2), 0.0002625 m^3.<BR>
Belly = 0.25cm thick (AV 2), 0.0002625 m^3.<BR>
<BR>
Power Plant: Batteries.  0.001 tons.  0.001 m^3.  Cr 525.<BR>
    Endurance: 600 seconds (20 turns). <BR>
<BR>
Grav Generators: 0.001 m^3.  0.05 tons of thrust. need 0.005 MW  0.002 tons.<BR>
    Cr 100.<BR>
<BR>
Fuel: N/A<BR>
    <BR>
Avionics: Darn it! they don't fit.  Max NOE speed 40/33.<BR>
<BR>
Electronics: Total volume = 0.004 m^3  Cost = Cr 210  Weight = 0.002 tons <BR>
    wire guidance package:  0.004 m^3  0.002 tons  Cr 100<BR>
    proximity trigger: Cr 100.  weight/volume negligible.<BR>
    command trigger (wire): Cr 10.  weight/volume negligible.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Crew: None.<BR>
<BR>
Environment: sealed hull.  Volume: 0.0000105 m^3.  Weight: <BR>
    0.0000105 tons.  Cr 1.<BR>
<BR>
Weapons: shaped demolition charge on chassis deck, mounted to fire upward.<BR>
    Takes 0.002 m^3 from vehicle hull (open mount).  Cr 100.  <BR>
    0.02 tons.<BR>
<BR>
Waste Space in Hull: 0.0016395 m^3<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 15:29:05 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: For Striker: Mobile Anti-Armor Mine<BR>
<BR>
Ludowick@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> A-1 Armament Industries bids you politely greet: MAAM<BR>
><BR>
> The Mobile Anti-Armor Mine system.<BR>
<BR>
Just in case the sound of hundreds of hard drives humming because they're<BR>
saving this in their "Good Traveller Stuff" file isn't enough, let me say<BR>
that this stuff is great.<BR>
<BR>
Please keep posting those Striker designs.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 16:45:35 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
This Trav-Trek thread is pretty boring.  Now, if it were Trav-Mirror<BR>
Mirror Universe Trek...THAT would be fun!<BR>
<BR>
Ditzie: "Hi! I'm Ditzie!"<BR>
<BR>
Evil Picard: "Lieutenant Barclay! Put 'Ditzie' in the agonizer booth."<BR>
<BR>
Erick, Kevin, what do you think? "Trav-Trek: Another Twist of the<BR>
Knife"?<BR>
<BR>
;-><BR>
<BR>
"Trevor, Peter" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott wrote:<BR>
> > "We come in peace from the United Federation of Planets.  I'm<BR>
> > Captain Jean-Luc Picard." *face breaks into that actually rather<BR>
> > charming, I'm-British-but-I'm-acting-French smile* "And who might<BR>
> > you be?"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "Hi!  I'm Ditzie!"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You've got to almost feel sorry for them.<BR>
> <BR>
> ROFLOL.  That's a keyboard kill.<BR>
> <BR>
> Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 19:28:50 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
Kristian Miller wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> This Trav-Trek thread is pretty boring.  Now, if it were Trav-Mirror<BR>
> Mirror Universe Trek...THAT would be fun!<BR>
> <BR>
> Ditzie: "Hi! I'm Ditzie!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Evil Picard: "Lieutenant Barclay! Put 'Ditzie' in the agonizer booth."<BR>
<BR>
Bad idea.  _Very_ bad idea.<BR>
<BR>
First, wherever Ditzie is, Uncle Hengie won't be far away.  And Hengabar<BR>
Spofulam will have toys that are refined versions of the nastiest Ditzie<BR>
designs.  (Not to mention the fact that, in the face of an<BR>
extra-dimensional threat to FS, other Traveller firms, such as<BR>
AuricTech, would provide assistance to FS.  After all, an<BR>
extra-dimensional threat to FS is a threat to the 3I.  More importantly,<BR>
assisting FS in such a crisis would provide access to the threat's<BR>
unique tech....)<BR>
<BR>
Second, putting Ditzie in the agonizer booth will merely give her access<BR>
to even more Trek-tech, which she will inevitably use to her advantage. <BR>
Imagine Ditzie with knowledge of both Trav-tech and Trek-tech.  The<BR>
gearhead in me is simultaneously horrified and fascinated by this<BR>
concept.  Mostly fascinated, though.... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<<snip>><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:06:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Thu, 28 Sep 2000 22:52:03 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard <BR>
> Erickson) wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Except that all those nice paradoxes don't care *how* you got from<BR>
>>point A to point B, just that you did so faster than light could make<BR>
>>the same trip.<BR>
><BR>
> Except that (*grin*) ... most of the FTL paradoxes I've seen derive from <BR>
> the assumptions that information can't travel faster than light, and/or <BR>
> that there is no absolute/preferred frame of reference.  It seems to me <BR>
> that if you have FTL, you've already rendered at least one of those moot.<BR>
<BR>
The "correct" situation is that relativity doesn't allow for absolute<BR>
or preferred frames of reference.<BR>
<BR>
FTL and "travel into the past" are the same thing in such a case. <BR>
<BR>
Travel into the past greatly complicates causality. If there aren't<BR>
tight "limits" on it, causality ceases to exist.<BR>
<BR>
But you *can* have FTL *and* relativity as long as you are willing to<BR>
accept the consequences of time travel.<BR>
<BR>
So, as I said before, pick any two:<BR>
<BR>
Relativity<BR>
FTL<BR>
Strict local causality<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Put it this way:  I don't hear anyone objecting that fireworks violate <BR>
> causality because you see the flash sooner than you hear the bang.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but when you check the time that the flash and the bang arrived<BR>
AND CORRECT FOR THE TRAVEL TIME you'll find that the flash *didn't<BR>
happen before the bang. <BR>
<BR>
With FTL, some observers will see end of the trip occuring *before* the<BR>
start *after* they correct for the time it took for the light from each<BR>
event to reach them. <BR>
<BR>
See the difference?<BR>
<BR>
"Observing" the event has to include adjusting for the time it took for<BR>
the light you are observing *with* to get to you.<BR>
<BR>
I think you'd be a bit concerned about causality if you were a mile<BR>
away and saw the flash an *hour* before you heard the bang... or if you<BR>
heard the bang *before* the flash.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:32:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: 1 parsec<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Allthough my time is not completely wasted; I now know that 1 parsec is<BR>
> equal to 1AU/ tan(1').<BR>
> Also I know that the relative velocity of a Starship is equal to something<BR>
> like, the jump size * 169, times the speed of light. It does this by somehow<BR>
> punching an hole in space.<BR>
><BR>
> I like the 'punching hole', theory.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, all we know ids that a starship disappears and a week later,<BR>
*usually* somewhere else, what seems to be the same ship appears. <BR>
<BR>
Actually, the ships are destroyed and the evil aliens from the 9th<BR>
dimension (they got kicked out of the 8th by the guys Buckaroo Banzai<BR>
dealt with) replace them with a duplicate containing replicants of the<BR>
crew and passengers.<BR>
<BR>
They are slowly taking over the universe. Trust no one who has been<BR>
"thru jump". And you can defend yourselves from the replicants by<BR>
%&$&^<BR>
<BR>
Sorry about that. My brother was visiting and decided to be cute.<BR>
Ignore the above rantings. We all know that jump is perfectly safe and<BR>
nothing can affect a ship in jump. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:39:20 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> SNIP<BR>
><BR>
>>        "We come in peace from the United Federation of Planets.  I'm<BR>
>> Captain Jean-Luc Picard." *face breaks into that actually rather charming,<BR>
>> I'm-British-but-I'm-acting-French smile* "And who might you be?"<BR>
>>         "Hi!  I'm Ditzie!"<BR>
>><BR>
>> You've got to almost feel sorry for them.<BR>
><BR>
> Other Keyboard soakers SNIPPED<BR>
><BR>
>> Sorry for the length of this, I'll go back off the beaten x-boat route, <BR>
> now. =)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Cheers<BR>
><BR>
> Very well put.  Oh well time to get the keyboard blow dryer out.<BR>
<BR>
They sell these nice flexible plastic keyboard covers. You can dump an<BR>
entire tankard of liquid over the keyboard and none gets inside (but<BR>
any papers on your desk are in trouble).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:42:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott wrote:<BR>
>> "We come in peace from the United Federation of Planets.  I'm <BR>
>> Captain Jean-Luc Picard." *face breaks into that actually rather<BR>
>> charming, I'm-British-but-I'm-acting-French smile* "And who might<BR>
>> you be?"<BR>
>><BR>
>> "Hi!  I'm Ditzie!"<BR>
>><BR>
>> You've got to almost feel sorry for them.<BR>
<BR>
I'd much prefer to see Kirk run into Ditzie at, say 18...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3111<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3112</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	10/1/00 11:55:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, October 1 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3112<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
Filk Suggestion<BR>
Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR>
Re: Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
re: Jump speed<BR>
RE: "Class" Vehicles<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3111<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Filk Suggestion<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
RE: For Striker: Mobile Anti-Armor Mine<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
Re: Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
Evil...I like that<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3111<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:45:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Sat, 30 Sep 2000 sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Agreed.  Warp Drive means Trek ships can outrun any attack from <BR>
>> a Traveller ship.  Even on Impulse drive, Trek ships can achieve <BR>
>> near light speed in at most an hour or two, and even the slow ships <BR>
>> have a max impulse speed of 0.25-0.5 C, which they can achieve in <BR>
>> a short time (don't even think about what sort of accelerations they <BR>
>> are using, its well over 1,000 Gs. <BR>
><BR>
> Wow, so with an impulse powered lifeboat, you could wreck a planet in the<BR>
> Trek universe in a fraction of the time it would take a thruster powered<BR>
> lifeboat in Traveller!<BR>
<BR>
Except that it seems that if you cut off the drive, the ship slows<BR>
down. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 19:00:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Pi (was: Terminal Velocity)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> If anyone suggests that BITS put out a "101 Pies" supplement, I'll shoot<BR>
> them.<BR>
><BR>
> And if anyone even thinks about a spreadsheet for designing pies based on<BR>
> PP&M2*...<BR>
<BR>
No, no. You start with the "food" tables from Murphy's Rules... I know<BR>
there's one for pizza and I think there's one for lasagna.<BR>
<BR>
> (* PP&M2 = "Pastry, Peas & Meat 2", the TNE version of the classic pie<BR>
> combat and design manual )<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 21:39:19 -0500<BR>
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Filk Suggestion<BR>
<BR>
Theres an old SCA filk, probably written by Robert Aspirin<BR>
entitled Causes of Rebellion, I was thinking it might make a good <BR>
Traveller filk<BR>
the original tune was Retreat along the Wabash<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 19:33:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
>> Small craft and vehicles are not refered to as X-class.  We do not have<BR>
>> Abrams-class tanks.  We do not have Tomcat-class fighters.  They are<BR>
>> simply refered to as the Abrams and Tomcat respectively (or the M1A1<BR>
>> and F-14).  So, when I see Trepida-class grav tank, for instance, it<BR>
>> makes my teeth grind; it sounds juvenile, and makes me wonder if the<BR>
>> designer/editor has ever done any actual research.<BR>
><BR>
> What you say is indeed true... in the US. If you want to use US-styled<BR>
> designations for craft and vehicles, then you should drop the "class."<BR>
> If you don't visualize the 3I as similiar to the US, there's really no<BR>
> need to drop it, since designations might be different.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I think the distinction just about everywhere is that<BR>
"class" is used with vehicles that rate *official* individual names. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 20:37:12 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
I told you it'd be more fun...<BR>
<BR>
John Groth wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Kristian Miller wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > This Trav-Trek thread is pretty boring.  Now, if it were Trav-Mirror<BR>
> > Mirror Universe Trek...THAT would be fun!<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Ditzie: "Hi! I'm Ditzie!"<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Evil Picard: "Lieutenant Barclay! Put 'Ditzie' in the agonizer booth."<BR>
> <BR>
> Bad idea.  _Very_ bad idea.<BR>
...<BR>
> gearhead in me is simultaneously horrified and fascinated by this<BR>
> concept.  Mostly fascinated, though.... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 04:21:03 GMT<BR>
From: "Erick ..." <siniypiva@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
>Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
<BR>
  the intelligence of the crew, actually all you would have to do is to get <BR>
them all to believe that red shirts were much more trendy ;), or get them to <BR>
go on a "away mission" and shoot them with PGMP's<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
  erick<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:17:10 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: "Class" Vehicles<BR>
<BR>
Here in the Alston league the term class is assigned to any vehicle design<BR>
(ground, air, space) which had more than 1 example built.<BR>
<BR>
The term type is applied to one offs. For example the Annic Nova is listed<BR>
as "Annic Nova type" there being as far as we know only one example being<BR>
built. But the famous 3I T-type patrol cruiser we would classify as T class.<BR>
<BR>
As a result a prototype would be designated X-type, but if production on<BR>
this type began would be reclassified as X-Class.<BR>
<BR>
This has enabled us to classify all ground/space vehicles in a single<BR>
registry.<BR>
<BR>
Commodore Antoine of the Alston Pedantic Classifications Bureau (APC-B)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 00:06:54 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
"Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> From: sneadj@mindspring.com <sneadj@mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> << I wrote almost all the tech for all of the now defunct LUGs Star<BR>
> Trek game, perhaps I can help. >><BR>
> <BR>
>     Funny thing that, I own all of the LUGTrek Books & I don't see one<BR>
>     John<BR>
> Snead listed as a member of the Last Unicorn Games Staff.  You are not<BR>
> in the ST:TNG Core Book, you are not in ST:DS9 Core Book, you are not<BR>
> in the ST:TOS Core Book, nor are you listed in my playtester's copy of<BR>
> SpaceDock. And, as for the man who wrote almost all of the tech for<BR>
> the LUGTrek game that would be several people; Ross Issacs, Steve<BR>
> Long, Ken Hite, Chris Moore, & S. John Ross.<BR>
>     So my question is, who in the heck are you?<BR>
<BR>
I do not work for LUGs, I'm a freelance writer.  Therefore, I am not <BR>
listed under design (creating the basic rules) or development <BR>
(editing), but instead under authors, where you can see my name <BR>
prominantly displayed in the TNG & TOS books (as well as in <BR>
many other Trek books, including: The Way of Kolinahr, The First <BR>
Line, The Price of Freedom, The Player's Handbook, Holodeck <BR>
Adventures, Planetary Adventures (where *my* adventure was <BR>
nominated for the Origins Award for best RPG adventure of 1999), <BR>
Planets of the UFP, and several others.  They also used my tech <BR>
material from the TNG game in the DS:9 game, but forgot to credit <BR>
me, the credit for my work on that game is listed on the credits <BR>
page of the DS:9 suppliment Raiders, Renegades, and Rogues.<BR>
<BR>
In companies which make large-scale use of freelance authors, the <BR>
developers write very little of the game, they primarily write the <BR>
outlines, edit the manuscript, & decide on the overall direction of <BR>
the line.   <BR>
<BR>
In any case, I am not sure why I bother answering you since you <BR>
have proved yourself repeatedly to be an uncivil idiot.  I dislike <BR>
having my credentials challeged, especially by the likes of you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com  <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 00:26:34 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
"Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
> Subject: <BR>
> <BR>
> From: sneadj@mindspring.com <sneadj@mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> << Except that it only applies to civilizations not capable of FTL<BR>
> travel. A TL 8 Traveller world visited by a Trek ship would be safe, a<BR>
> Trek starship meeting a Traveller starship or TL9+ world would be at<BR>
> no such disadvantage. >><BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Paramount has always stated that the Prime Directive only applies to<BR>
> civilizations on capable of space travel, or a member of a Star<BR>
> Spaning Nation.  So a TL8 Traveller World would be able to be<BR>
> contacted.<BR>
<BR>
Take a look at the TNG episode First Contact, where the <BR>
Federation is preparing to contact a civilization which is about to <BR>
create a functional warp drive.  Formal contact is not planned until <BR>
after this civilization actually achieves warp drive.  From The Star <BR>
Trek Encyclopedia, the more vague answer (which is contradicted <BR>
in "First Contact" as well as several other places, but this *is* Trek <BR>
after all) is "until a civilization has attained significant spaceflight <BR>
capabilities".  Given that *we* are TL 8, and certain have nothing of <BR>
the sort (barely extant being a better description of our world's <BR>
spaceflight capabilities), most TL 8 worlds would be safe.   <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 00:47:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com <sneadj@mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<< I do not work for LUGs, I'm a freelance writer.  Therefore, I am not<BR>
listed under design (creating the basic rules) or development (editing), but<BR>
instead under authors, where you can see my name prominantly displayed in<BR>
the TNG & TOS books (as well as in many other Trek books, including: The Way<BR>
of Kolinahr, The First Line, The Price of Freedom, The Player's Handbook,<BR>
Holodeck Adventures, Planetary Adventures (where *my* adventure was<BR>
nominated for the Origins Award for best RPG adventure of 1999), Planets of<BR>
the UFP, and several others.  They also used my tech material from the TNG<BR>
game in the DS:9 game, but forgot to credit me, the credit for my work on<BR>
that game is listed on the credits page of the DS:9 suppliment Raiders,<BR>
Renegades, and Rogues. >><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Ah, I see so you are lost in the shuffle.  Though S. John Ross prominant<BR>
in many of the books.  And, I do own everything LUG put out, even Aria & I<BR>
still do not see you name anywhere.  Must be my copies, huh?<BR>
<BR>
<< In companies which make large-scale use of freelance authors, the<BR>
developers write very little of the game, they primarily write the outlines,<BR>
edit the manuscript, & decide on the overall direction of the line. >><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Yes, we know.  It seems that Loren Wiseman & Marc Miller are on this ML<BR>
& have explained this to us.  So we understand this.<BR>
<BR>
<< In any case, I am not sure why I bother answering you since you have<BR>
proved yourself repeatedly to be an uncivil idiot.  I dislike having my<BR>
credentials challeged, especially by the likes of you. >><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I think this was a personal attack by one of the people who claim to be<BR>
a free-lance game designer.  Please, let me know what you are planning to<BR>
write in the future, so that I will not buy it & line the pockets of a man<BR>
who does not like me.  Basicly, sir I asked a question here & if you want to<BR>
insult me, please go right on a head, but I chalanged your claim that you<BR>
created most of the technology for Star Trek.  Of course if that makes me an<BR>
uncivil idiot, please keep insulting me.  I enjoy hearing the barking of<BR>
uncooth dogs.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 01:10:09 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com <sneadj@mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
> Paramount has always stated that the Prime Directive only applies to<BR>
> civilizations on capable of space travel, or a member of a Star<BR>
> Spaning Nation.  So a TL8 Traveller World would be able to be<BR>
> contacted.<BR>
<BR>
<< Take a look at the TNG episode First Contact, where the Federation is<BR>
preparing to contact a civilization which is about to create a functional<BR>
warp drive.  Formal contact is not planned until after this civilization<BR>
actually achieves warp drive.  From The Star Trek Encyclopedia, the more<BR>
vague answer (which is contradicted in "First Contact" as well as several<BR>
other places, but this *is* Trek after all) is "until a civilization has<BR>
attained significant spaceflight capabilities".  Given that *we* are TL 8,<BR>
and certain have nothing of the sort (barely extant being a better<BR>
description of our world's spaceflight capabilities), most TL 8 worlds would<BR>
be safe.  >><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    I would have to disagree with you here, we are at TL8 in some areas, but<BR>
I do not see any cities powered by cheap fusion power.  I would have to say<BR>
that Earth is at TL7, but on the threathold of TL8.  We will be at TL8, when<BR>
we start to colonize our own solar system.<BR>
    I would have to say that before we become a fully TL8 society, we will<BR>
have to have a permant presence in space.  We have the technology, but not<BR>
the will.<BR>
    Also, most TL8 worlds do have a High Port of some sort, or a permant<BR>
pressence in space.  So I can see the Federation being able to make contact<BR>
with most systems having a Type A, B, or C Starport.  Also at TL7 it is<BR>
possible to start a system colonization effort using the technology<BR>
available.  At least in MT, as you can, also in CT.<BR>
    What this means is that all member worlds of the 3I are not protected<BR>
under the Prime Directive, as they are already a member of a Star Spanning<BR>
Nation.  So I cannot see why this would be a problem.  Not an indepent<BR>
world, without any form of trade & a Class E or X Starport would come under<BR>
this rule as well, but any planet with a Starport of class A, B, C, or D<BR>
would have some trade from Offworld, even if it was once a year & by a<BR>
broken down Freetrader.  In this case they would not be protected by the<BR>
Prime Directive, as they already have contact off world.<BR>
    Nor would new colonies with a Class E or X Starport be covered under the<BR>
Prime Directive, as they must have got there somehow & the only way I can<BR>
think of is through space travel.<BR>
    So this all adds up to one thing, the Prime Directive doesn't apply to<BR>
any worlds within Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 09:27:51 +0100<BR>
From: "Stuart Ferris" <stuart.ferris@virgin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3111<BR>
<BR>
>When I go to the site:http://www.downport.com/wbd/HEAVEN_&_EARTH.htm<BR>
>or<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Heaven_and_Earth/HEAVEN_and_EAR<BR>
TH.html I can not find the download link. the first url >does not have what<BR>
the second url has, but neither have a download link that I am able to find.<BR>
Using IE 5.0 and Winblows 98.<BR>
<BR>
The Downport link is the main host. I have full access for editing the site<BR>
and it is up-to-date and fully functioning. The BITs link is a Host Site and<BR>
is maintained by Dom Mooney. It may take Dom a bit of time to update this<BR>
site.<BR>
<BR>
However, I have tested both links and their Download pages work fine. I<BR>
suggest that you try again at the Downport site to download V1.0.4.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart Ferris<BR>
stuart.ferris@virgin.net<BR>
http://freespace.virgin.net/stuart.ferris/index.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 05:00:32 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) posits:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>I'd much prefer to see Kirk run into Ditzie at, say 18...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
 Haven't we had this conversation already (minus Kirk)?<BR>
<BR>
 To expose Kirk to an adult member of Famile Spofulam (whatever her name <BR>
might be) is a good way to prematurely end his career and the glorious name <BR>
of Enterprise. FS women don't jilt well at all...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:38:08 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Filk Suggestion<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Theres an old SCA filk, probably written by Robert Aspirin<BR>
> entitled Causes of Rebellion, I was thinking it might make a good <BR>
> Traveller filk<BR>
<BR>
I may have that somewhere in my filk books. It sounds familar.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:35:17 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
<BR>
> From: Ian Ferguson <BR>
>         An even greater advantage that Trav ships have: none of the<BR>
>         crew wear those red shirts that seem to attract so much<BR>
>         harm.<BR>
<BR>
Does Marine maroon count?<BR>
<BR>
It certainly would present a new view of them if it did!<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:37:25 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
> From: Nattrass <BR>
> Ultimately trek will win because of Wesley.<BR>
<BR>
Now now:  no reason to get nasty.  Put the cigarette lighter down...<BR>
<BR>
Of course, if we _had_ to sort out the Federation, what we would do is<BR>
borrow a Star Trigger or twelve from the Darrians.  Failing that, we take<BR>
samples of the chips from Cymbeline and develop them into a weapon capable<BR>
of hacking the Trek computers and causing them to experience reruns of old<BR>
episodes.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:59:21 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> > Of course, there is (or was, it may be out of print now) an Gurps:<BR>
> > Lensman book.<BR>
> <BR>
> It's out of print. Alas, I didn't know it *existed* until a couple<BR>
> years ago. If I'd known, I'd have bough one, even though at that time,<BR>
> it'd have meant skimping on groceries.<BR>
<BR>
The first three Gurps books I ever bought:  Lensman, Atomic Horror and<BR>
Illuminati.  Completely unrelated purchases, of course...  And I would<BR>
never consider for a second the possibility that the Lensmen might be even<BR>
a little less pure of heart than they claim to be...<BR>
<BR>
> > If a very silly person wanted to, they could use GT to convert the<BR>
> > characters and gear in that book to Traveller....<BR>
> <BR>
> You rang?<BR>
<BR>
Actually the GT book isn't all that impressive.  It would be just as easy<BR>
to work from the original books themselves.<BR>
<BR>
Some of the character generation options are a bit scary though - lots &<BR>
lots of points.<BR>
<BR>
> For an evil GM, pick a world on the fringe of the Imperium Prefferable<BR>
> one with a lot of "unknown territory" near it and inflict GURPS War<BR>
> Against the Chtorr on your players. <BR>
> <BR>
> Actually, that'd work better on the rimward side of the Solomani...<BR>
<BR>
Not a bad idea.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 19:23:28 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: RE: For Striker: Mobile Anti-Armor Mine<BR>
<BR>
<Hard drive whirring noises><BR>
</Hard drive whirring noises><BR>
Thank you!<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:11:40 EDT<BR>
> From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: For Striker: Mobile Anti-Armor Mine<BR>
> <BR>
> A-1 Armament Industries bids you politely greet: MAAM<BR>
> <BR>
> The Mobile Anti-Armor Mine system.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 08:03:38 -0400<BR>
From: michael stasica <stosh@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> SNIP<BR>
><BR>
> > Very well put.  Oh well time to get the keyboard blow dryer out.<BR>
><BR>
> They sell these nice flexible plastic keyboard covers. You can dump an<BR>
> entire tankard of liquid over the keyboard and none gets inside (but<BR>
> any papers on your desk are in trouble).<BR>
<BR>
Yes, I have one for my older keyboards.  Unfortunately the best  I have been able<BR>
<BR>
to use as a cover for the Microsoft Natural Keyboard is Plastic wrap.<BR>
<BR>
Michael<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 05:55:54 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR>
<BR>
- --- Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<<Actually, I think the distinction just about everywhere is that<BR>
"class" is used with vehicles that rate *official* individual names.>><BR>
<BR>
You, sir, have achieved the succinctness I lack.  Thank you.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 21:47:34 +0800<BR>
From: Nattrass <wulfren@opera.iinet.net.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, if we _had_ to sort out the Federation, what we would do is<BR>
>borrow a Star Trigger or twelve from the Darrians.  Failing that, we take<BR>
>samples of the chips from Cymbeline and develop them into a weapon capable<BR>
>of hacking the Trek computers and causing them to experience reruns of old<BR>
>episodes.<BR>
<BR>
Trek has also developed a similar weapon, except with a little tinkering <BR>
their version is stellar capable.<BR>
The Cymbeline option seems a good one though, except wesley should be able <BR>
to solve that situation using his pen torch, a piece of string and the <BR>
gravitational attraction of the moon...<BR>
or is that mac guyver?<BR>
<BR>
besides you dont really need the cymbeline virus, it seems anyone with a <BR>
tape recorder, and 5 minutes spare time can hack and trek puter.....  lets <BR>
face it, sneeze on the controls and you can make the ship blow away half of <BR>
a starbase<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 07:39:18 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
Silly people!  Any Trek ship which found itself in a hard science<BR>
fiction universe such as Travellers would instantaneously be reduced to<BR>
so much floating scrap metal!  Trek ships rely on handwavium physical<BR>
particles to move and fight.  Said particles do not exist in the<BR>
Traveller universe.  Therefore, Capt. Pickard and that self-righteous<BR>
first mate of his would find themselves at the mercy of whatever tramp<BR>
freighter happened to wander by.<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 11:10:19 -0400<BR>
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Yada, yada - Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>
<BR>
At 07:39 AM 10/1/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>Silly people!  Any Trek ship which found itself in a hard science<BR>
>fiction universe such as Travellers would instantaneously be reduced to<BR>
>so much floating scrap metal!  Trek ships rely on handwavium physical<BR>
>particles to move and fight.  Said particles do not exist in the<BR>
>Traveller universe.  Therefore, Capt. Pickard and that self-righteous<BR>
>first mate of his would find themselves at the mercy of whatever tramp<BR>
>freighter happened to wander by.<BR>
<BR>
Tramp freighter or ethically challenged merchant??? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
Morrow Project Campaign http://www.sol-3.net<BR>
WT-L Support Pages http://www.sol-3.net/wt-l<BR>
<BR>
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
      may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
~Stephen Decatur<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 11:22:14 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Evil...I like that<BR>
<BR>
My vote for best post of the week:<BR>
<BR>
Leonard's idea of Captain James T. Kirk (in his velour wearing prime) <BR>
meeting up with an 18 year old Ditzie.<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?<BR>
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.<BR>
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 11:32:53 -0400<BR>
From: Eric Freitas <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
At 00:30 10/1/00 +0800, you wrote:<BR>
<snippage><BR>
>Why would it bother, its been pointed out that the navigational deflector <BR>
>on federations starships are capable of deflecting laser weapons.<BR>
>If a trav starship had surprise on its side however it may stand a chance, <BR>
>it seems that trek doesn't seem to like fighting or communicating at <BR>
>ranges larger and a kilometer or more, I'm pretty sure that a small volley <BR>
>of contact detonation nukes, would be effective at damaging the shielding <BR>
>of the runabout, and destroying yourself.<BR>
>Although if my memory of the original series serves correctly plasma <BR>
>weapons were used by the romulans to hurt kirks indestructible ship, and <BR>
>wasn't it the firey that stocked 2 x 75mj VRF plasma cannons.<BR>
>that may be able to take out a shuttle *shugs*<BR>
>Ultimately trek will win because of Wesley.<BR>
<snippage><BR>
<BR>
Now, that brings up an interesting mental picture:  Deathmatch - Ditzie vs. <BR>
Wesley!!!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:14:04 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 1 Oct 2000, Legate Legion wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     Ah, I see so you are lost in the shuffle.  Though S. John Ross prominant<BR>
> in many of the books.  And, I do own everything LUG put out, even Aria & I<BR>
> still do not see you name anywhere.  Must be my copies, huh?<BR>
<BR>
Apparently.  I just checked my roommate's copies of a few ST:TNG books and<BR>
sure enough, John Snead is listed as an author.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 13:36:00 -0500<BR>
From: Sinbad Sam <sinbad@hex.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3111<BR>
<BR>
At 03:27 AM 10/01/2000, you wrote:<BR>
>>When I go to the site:http://www.downport.com/wbd/HEAVEN_&_EARTH.htm<BR>
>>or<BR>
>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/BITS_website/Heaven_and_Earth/HEAVEN_and_EAR<BR>
>TH.html I can not find the download link. the first url >does not have what<BR>
>the second url has, but neither have a download link that I am able to find.<BR>
>Using IE 5.0 and Winblows 98.<BR>
><BR>
>The Downport link is the main host. I have full access for editing the site<BR>
>and it is up-to-date and fully functioning. The BITs link is a Host Site and<BR>
>is maintained by Dom Mooney. It may take Dom a bit of time to update this<BR>
>site.<BR>
><BR>
>However, I have tested both links and their Download pages work fine. I<BR>
>suggest that you try again at the Downport site to download V1.0.4.<BR>
<BR>
Stuart,<BR>
<BR>
I am using IE 5.5 and 1024 resolution, On the left hand frame side, I have Main, News, Overview, Specifications, Screen Shots, Imperium, Thanks, and Links. On the right hand frame I have For windows 95, 98, NT and 2000, then picture underneath it. On the right hand frame nothing is shows as a link. The left hand frame the links work but I have yet to find the download link. This is only and the second url above, the first url(downport) on the left hand frame has just the Thanks link.<BR>
<BR>
Sinbad Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3112<BR>
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Subj: Traveller-digest V1999 #3113
Date: 10/2/00 5:23:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time
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Traveller-digest      Monday, October 2 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3113



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)
Black Globes
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)
Re: "Class" Vehicles
More Fiction
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)
Re: "Class" Vehicles
Re: "Class" Vehicles
Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)
Re: The 'Amber Nectar'
RE: Thieve's World Redux
Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography
Re: Black Globes
Re: "Class" Vehicles
Re: "Class" Vehicles
Re: "Class" Vehicles
Re: Black Globes
RE: Thieve's World Redux

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 13:10:28 -0700
From: sneadj@mindspring.com
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)

"Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com> wrote: 

>   Ah, I see so you are lost in the shuffle.  Though S. John Ross prominant
> in many of the books.  And, I do own everything LUG put out, even Aria
> & I still do not see you name anywhere.  Must be my copies, huh?

Perhaps, but my guess is that you either can't read terribly well or 
that you are unwilling to admit you are wrong.  As someone else 
has stated, my name is listed under authors (that means folks who 
actually wrote the books if that word is unfamiliar to you).

> << In any case, I am not sure why I bother answering you since you
> have proved yourself repeatedly to be an uncivil idiot.  I dislike
> having my credentials challeged, especially by the likes of you. >>
> 
> I think this was a personal attack by one of the people who claim to be
> a free-lance game designer.  Please, let me know what you are planning
> to write in the future, so that I will not buy it & line the pockets
> of a man who does not like me.  Basicly, sir I asked a question here &
> if you want to insult me, please go right on a head, but I chalanged
> your claim that you created most of the technology for Star Trek.  Of
> course if that makes me an uncivil idiot, please keep insulting me.  I
> enjoy hearing the barking of uncooth dogs.

No, the fact that you have previously made death-threats on this 
list makes you an uncivil idiot, claiming that you still can't find my 
name in the books merely makes you semi-literate or a liar.


- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:48:55 ADT
From: "D Allain" <dr_polo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Black Globes

I play MT, with some CT mixed in.  The characters in the campaign (me and a 
few  others)may have found a ship with a Black Globe.  How is a Black Globe 
used in combat? I understand the premise of how it works, but the rules 
simply say that if the capacitators are overloaded, the ship vaporizes.  My 
question is how much energy (damage points) can a factor 1 black globe 
handle? Or a factor 2...factor 3, etc. I can just imagine a cloaked ship, 
having been located somehow (us PC`s always find a way to screw things up), 
with a 100,000 ton Cruiser shooting away with all it's laser batteries. How 
do we calculate it? Is it the power rating of the power plant? Any comments 
on this would be appreciated.
Thank you,


DeniS
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.

Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at 
http://profiles.msn.com.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 14:18:32 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)

From: sneadj@mindspring.com <sneadj@mindspring.com>

<< Perhaps, but my guess is that you either can't read terribly well or that
you are unwilling to admit you are wrong.  As someone else has stated, my
name is listed under authors (that means folks who actually wrote the books
if that word is unfamiliar to you). >>

    John, as I have been looking through my books, I still cannot find them,
of course I do have one of the later printings, so that might be it.  I also
double checked with a friend of mine & no, he doesn't have you name in his
books either.

    Also, as you know both Traveller & ICON, I do assume that you will be
working on a conversion for it, so I can now stop on my Traveller to
ICON/ICON to Traveller Conversion notes.

<< No, the fact that you have previously made death-threats on this list
makes you an uncivil idiot, claiming that you still can't find my name in
the books merely makes you semi-literate or a liar. >>

    Well, John, just let me know when something of yours or anything else
you have worked on is coming out, so I will not buy it.  I am sure you do
not want the money of someone who you consider an uncivil idiot,
semi-literate, & a liar.  Understand?


    I bid you peace.

Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com

"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:36:16 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)

In mail you write:

>     I would have to disagree with you here, we are at TL8 in some areas, but
> I do not see any cities powered by cheap fusion power.  I would have to say
> that Earth is at TL7, but on the threathold of TL8.  We will be at TL8, when
> we start to colonize our own solar system.
>     I would have to say that before we become a fully TL8 society, we will
> have to have a permant presence in space.  We have the technology, but not
> the will.
>     Also, most TL8 worlds do have a High Port of some sort, or a permant
> pressence in space.  So I can see the Federation being able to make contact
> with most systems having a Type A, B, or C Starport.  Also at TL7 it is
> possible to start a system colonization effort using the technology
> available.  At least in MT, as you can, also in CT.

Actually, given the required will, it's possible with early to mid TL
*6* technology. Remember, while they'd have been a *lot* more expensive
(or more dangerous) the plans that folks like von Braun published in
the early 50s were quite doable.

>     So this all adds up to one thing, the Prime Directive doesn't apply to
> any worlds within Traveller.

Red Zones...

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 11:45:30 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)

In mail you write:

> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) posits:
>
>>
>>I'd much prefer to see Kirk run into Ditzie at, say 18...
>
>  Haven't we had this conversation already (minus Kirk)?
>
>  To expose Kirk to an adult member of Famile Spofulam (whatever her name 
> might be) is a good way to prematurely end his career and the glorious name 
> of Enterprise. FS women don't jilt well at all...

Who says it'd get that far. I think she'd find his attempts to
"romance" her to be *at best* annoying.

While that might end *Kirk's career, I don't think she'd nail the whole
ship. After all, either she'd be on board with him, or he'd have (yet
again) abandoned his command to visit her. 

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 18:43:36 EDT
From: Ludowick@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles

Gerry Harris wrote:

>Small craft and vehicles are not refered to as X-class.  We do not have
>Abrams-class tanks.  We do not have Tomcat-class fighters.  They are
>simply refered to as the Abrams and Tomcat respectively (or the M1A1
>and F-14).  So, when I see Trepida-class grav tank, for instance, it
>makes my teeth grind; it sounds juvenile, and makes me wonder if the
>designer/editor has ever done any actual research.

I know.  I was just using "class" as a generic term (like "type" or "model").
I'll use "type" from now on.  Sorry if I caused any grinding molars. 

OTOH the 3I might have different military parlance than the U.S.  Are 
there any foreign countries today that use a term for a class of ships 
that is also used in the generic sense of "type" or "model" with other
military equipment?

>Class is used in reference to ships, so yes you would have
>Gazelle-class close escorts.  The British and some other navies also
>have "types" IIRC, hence the Type-T Patrol Cruiser sounds kosher.

<ivan>
Come on, we know *real* navies give their ships project numbers, not
classes. 
</ivan>  :P

Ludowick

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 00:09:32 +0100
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk>
Subject: More Fiction

More Fiction (non Trav and Travelleresque) is up on the FFN main site.

Try especially
http://www.fiction-fantasy.net/non_game_fiction/stories/A_Place_Among_The_St
ars.php

Regards

MJD

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 00:28:00 +0100
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)


> In mail you write:
>
> > shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) posits:
> >
> >>
> >>I'd much prefer to see Kirk run into Ditzie at, say 18...
> >
> >  Haven't we had this conversation already (minus Kirk)?
> >
> >  To expose Kirk to an adult member of Famile Spofulam (whatever her name
> > might be) is a good way to prematurely end his career and the glorious
name
> > of Enterprise. FS women don't jilt well at all...
>
> Who says it'd get that far. I think she'd find his attempts to
> "romance" her to be *at best* annoying.

I dunno...

Kirk seems to exude some kind of pheromone that is attractive to females of
all sentient species...

It's probably viewing the female through the cloud of chemicals that causes
them to appear to be in soft focus all the time...

:)

Matt

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 16:50:33 -0700
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)

From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com>

>Actually, given the required will, it's possible with early to mid TL
>*6* technology. Remember, while they'd have been a *lot* more expensive
>(or more dangerous) the plans that folks like von Braun published in
>the early 50s were quite doable.


    Correct, but an arguement can be made for those plans from the 50s to
have been early TL7.  Going by CT's TL Table, at TL7 you have the first
non-starships being built, & at TL-8 you have Air/Rafts & GCarriers.  I
don't know about you people, but I have not seen a working Air/Raft yet,
though if we are at TL8 then we should have them, as well as cheap fusion
power, & common laser weapons.  We do have Vacc Suits, Auto-Cannon, &
Artillery Computers.  So I would have to say we are at TL7 with some areas
of TL8.  We do have all of the listed CT items for TL7, with the exception
of weapons grade pulse lasers, & if we have those in common production, no
one has told me.  So again my arguement is that we are currently at TL7 with
some items of a TL8 nature.

>>     So this all adds up to one thing, the Prime Directive doesn't apply
to
>> any worlds within Traveller.
>
>Red Zones...


    Which are defined by the TAS in cases of danger to travelers, the Navy
when they want to use a system for war games or as a gunnery range, & the
Scouts when they are expermenting with a culture.  Basicly, they still have
limited contact with the outside, but in the case of the Navy they are
blasing the planet to bits, in the case of the TAS they are warning people
away, & in the case of the Scouts they are mucking around with the local
planets population.
    Has anyone thought how much power the TAS really has?  I mean if they
Red Zone a planet, then that planet loses a lot of off-world trade.  And, as
an official for the TAS can Red Zone a world, how corrupt can they be?  Ie,
"Give me 10 MCr, or I will Red Zone your planet."-type deal.  Might make a
good adventure seed here.  An official with the TAS is Red Zoning worlds
that do not bribe him on a regular basis & the his or her higher ups in the
TAS seek out the party to deal with him, before this gets out to the media.

    I bid you peace.

Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.
ICQ # 8973001
legate@futureone.com

"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"

"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,
USS Excaliber.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:44:59 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Ludowick@aol.com>
To: <traveller-digest@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 8:43:am
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles


>
> Gerry Harris wrote:
>
>  >Small craft and vehicles are not refered to as X-class.  We do not have
>  >Abrams-class tanks.  We do not have Tomcat-class fighters.  They are
>  >simply refered to as the Abrams and Tomcat respectively (or the M1A1
>  >and F-14).  So, when I see Trepida-class grav tank, for instance, it
>  >makes my teeth grind; it sounds juvenile, and makes me wonder if the
>  >designer/editor has ever done any actual research.
>
> I know.  I was just using "class" as a generic term (like "type" or
"model").
> I'll use "type" from now on.  Sorry if I caused any grinding molars.

Or series, versions. marks, and even family.  I have also read in a Pernells
illustrated book on armoured vehicles, the term "class" used to describe the
different versions of Sherman models... the Sherman Class they actually
said!  But that was only once I had seen that, and they referred to the
"halftrack family" later in the book...

>
> OTOH the 3I might have different military parlance than the U.S.

I'd pay that :^)

>  Are
> there any foreign countries today that use a term for a class of ships
> that is also used in the generic sense of "type" or "model" with other
> military equipment?

If I recall correctly, in WWII, there were many tanks that belonged to the
"Out-class" family of fighting vehicles, as in, "When encountering a Tiger
or Panther, the tank we were in was out-classed..." ;)

- -- The Roc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:42:25
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles

At 06:43 PM 10/1/2000 EDT, you wrote:

>OTOH the 3I might have different military parlance than the U.S.  Are 
>there any foreign countries today that use a term for a class of ships 
>that is also used in the generic sense of "type" or "model" with other
>military equipment?

Ground Forces does refer to vehicles as "foo-class mobile latriene units"
or whatever.  It's simpler for the vast majority of gamers who don't have
the military experience to remember all the model numbers.

For example, when I was in the service, there were three different pieces
of equipment that were designated the "M-16A1".  It made for some confusion.

- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"
                    -Adam West, as Batman 

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 17:44:05
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)

At 11:45 AM 10/1/2000 PST, you wrote:

>  To expose Kirk to an adult member of Famile Spofulam (whatever her name 
> might be) is a good way to prematurely end his career and the glorious name 
> of Enterprise. FS women don't jilt well at all...

No no no.. remember Christopher Pike?  He was the guy who made contact with
Age-of-Consent Ditzie...

- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:45:28 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar'

Dear Folks -

Mike Demetro allowed us insight into a secret formula:
>Here's a can of Canada Dry Club Soda now...
>
>Contains: Carbonated Water, Sodium Bicarbonate, Sodium Citrate, Disodium
>Phosphate, Potassium Sulphate and NO CALORIES.

No taste, either.

- - Hyphen

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:38:08 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: RE: Thieve's World Redux

Dear Folks -

Peter Trevor penned:
>Half of each session would be regular  Traveller  and  half  this
>strange Thieves World thing...
[snip]
>...the two parts of the campaign  were  being  played
>out 'simultaneously' instead of in chronological order.

Oh, what a beautifully-done plot twist! Did your players appreciate it, or did
they try to lynch you afterwards?
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:52:34 +1100
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au
Subject: Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography

Dear Folks -

Matt posted:
>>That's nearly 900 of the things.  I even managed at last
>>to produce a keyword index for it which makes things easily
>> findable.

I have the same sort of thing, at home, as a hand-written paper copy I wrote out
personally. DON'T ask how long it took, but really what I used to do was write
an index to one issue at a time, as they were released.

I am interested in what the Bibliography uses for its keywords? I classified
mine into things like "Amber Zone", "Ship Deck Plans", "Ref's Notes",
"Contact!", and so forth. This means that many articles have more than one
keyword.

I've always been meaning to computerise it, but couldn't quite work out how I
wanted the database to be arranged.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:56:29 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: Black Globes

- ----- Original Message -----
From: D Allain <dr_polo@hotmail.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 3:48:am
Subject: Black Globes


> I play MT, with some CT mixed in.  The characters in the campaign (me and
a
> few  others)may have found a ship with a Black Globe.  How is a Black
Globe
> used in combat? I understand the premise of how it works, but the rules
> simply say that if the capacitators are overloaded, the ship vaporizes.
My
> question is how much energy (damage points) can a factor 1 black globe
> handle? Or a factor 2...factor 3, etc. I can just imagine a cloaked ship,
> having been located somehow (us PC`s always find a way to screw things
up),
> with a 100,000 ton Cruiser shooting away with all it's laser batteries.
How
> do we calculate it? Is it the power rating of the power plant? Any
comments
> on this would be appreciated.
> Thank you,
>

Boy, glad you aren't in my game... sounds like you are seeking out of game
information?  Hmmmn?  Wouldn't your GM tell you if he wanted you to know? ;)

- -- The Roc
>
> DeniS
> _________________________________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at
> http://profiles.msn.com.
>

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:02:46 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 5:42:pm
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles


> At 06:43 PM 10/1/2000 EDT, you wrote:
>
> >OTOH the 3I might have different military parlance than the U.S.  Are
> >there any foreign countries today that use a term for a class of ships
> >that is also used in the generic sense of "type" or "model" with other
> >military equipment?
>
> Ground Forces does refer to vehicles as "foo-class mobile latriene units"
> or whatever.  It's simpler for the vast majority of gamers who don't have
> the military experience to remember all the model numbers.
>
> For example, when I was in the service, there were three different pieces
> of equipment that were designated the "M-16A1".  It made for some
confusion.
>

And again, if memory serves, wasn't there something like an M3 Tank, M3
half-track, M3 SMG, and an M3 rifle during WWII?  Or something along those
lines??  (I may be speaking through my hat here, I really gotta get those
books out of storage!)

- -- The Roc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2000 22:15:04 -0500
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles

The Roc wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
> To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
> Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 5:42:pm
> Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles
>
> > At 06:43 PM 10/1/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> >
> > >OTOH the 3I might have different military parlance than the U.S.  Are
> > >there any foreign countries today that use a term for a class of ships
> > >that is also used in the generic sense of "type" or "model" with other
> > >military equipment?
> >
> > Ground Forces does refer to vehicles as "foo-class mobile latriene units"
> > or whatever.  It's simpler for the vast majority of gamers who don't have
> > the military experience to remember all the model numbers.
> >
> > For example, when I was in the service, there were three different pieces
> > of equipment that were designated the "M-16A1".  It made for some
> confusion.
> >
>
> And again, if memory serves, wasn't there something like an M3 Tank, M3
> half-track, M3 SMG, and an M3 rifle during WWII?  Or something along those
> lines??  (I may be speaking through my hat here, I really gotta get those
> books out of storage!)

There were two M-3 tanks -- lthe (light) Stuart and the (medium) Lee/Grant (the
US and British versions were slightly different).

A generous and sadistic GM,
Brandon Cope

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:58:33 +1000
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles

- ----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 1:15:pm
Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles


> The Roc wrote:
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com>
> > To: <traveller@lists.ient.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2000 5:42:pm
> > Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles
> >
> > > At 06:43 PM 10/1/2000 EDT, you wrote:
> > >
> >
> > And again, if memory serves, wasn't there something like an M3 Tank, M3
> > half-track, M3 SMG, and an M3 rifle during WWII?  Or something along
those
> > lines??  (I may be speaking through my hat here, I really gotta get
those
> > books out of storage!)
>
> There were two M-3 tanks -- lthe (light) Stuart and the (medium) Lee/Grant
(the
> US and British versions were slightly different).
>

Thanks Brandon, and just to murky things further from the real world (again,
c.WWII), Autocar, Diamond T, and White produced the US Carrier, Personnel,
Half-Track M3 (a 13-seater APC) that for the life of me, looks like the M2
Half-Track (and I seem to recall an M2 mortar... 81 mm or smaller, I'm not
sure??) made by the same companies, and International Harvester (probably
component differences?).  And from the same book (I found laying up-right on
a bookshelf here!!  By Olyslanger) there is the M3 Sturt/Honey, as you
mentioned.

And of course, for M3 SMG, (not mentioned in the vehicle book) wasn't that
the .45in "Grease Gun?"  That's not to mention what, the M1, which was
(again, from memory) the Garand (and I'm doubting an M3 rifle now...), the
M1-Carbine, some more vehicles, another mortar, and probably another swag of
items!  So there can be all manner of confusion that I'd like to think the
3I would guard against, but just know they wouldn't have for various
reasons!  So a class of equipment does help in a sense there :^)

- -- The Roc

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:36:59 PST
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)
Subject: Re: Black Globes

In mail you write:

> I play MT, with some CT mixed in.  The characters in the campaign (me and a 
> few  others)may have found a ship with a Black Globe.  How is a Black Globe 
> used in combat? I understand the premise of how it works, but the rules 
> simply say that if the capacitators are overloaded, the ship vaporizes.  My 
> question is how much energy (damage points) can a factor 1 black globe 
> handle? Or a factor 2...factor 3, etc. I can just imagine a cloaked ship, 
> having been located somehow (us PC`s always find a way to screw things up), 
> with a 100,000 ton Cruiser shooting away with all it's laser batteries. How 
> do we calculate it? Is it the power rating of the power plant? Any comments 
> on this would be appreciated.

the amount of energy absorbed is the amount the weapons (or whatever)
firing at you put out. The amount you can hold depends on how many
capacitors you have installed. They have a fixed storage capacity per
capacitor. 

So the crucial factor is the capacitors, not what factor of screen you
have installed.Sort of like how long you can run an engine depends on
how big the gas tank is, not just on how big the engine is.

- -- 
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)
shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:03:56 +0100 
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com>
Subject: RE: Thieve's World Redux

David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson wrote:
> Peter Trevor penned:
> >Half of each session would be regular  Traveller  and  half  this
> >strange Thieves World thing...
> [snip]
> >...the two parts of the campaign  were  being  played
> >out 'simultaneously' instead of in chronological order.
> 
> Oh, what a beautifully-done plot twist! Did your players 
> appreciate it, or did they try to lynch you afterwards?

Both!  Actually, they liked it.  Too bad it can only be used once.

Regards PLST

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3113
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>10/2/00 6:16:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Monday, October 2 2000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3114<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3106<BR>Classes and Names<BR>Trav-Trek Crossover<BR>Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR>FWD: Re: Titan Games Preview for (10/1/00)<BR>Re: Trav-Trek crossover <BR>Red Zones (was Re: Trav-Trek crossover)<BR>Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>Re: Striker nukes<BR>Virus Lives! (and TNE Rocks!)<BR>Re: Looking for forms....<BR>Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR>Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK &amp; Hard Times')<BR>Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Lasers question...gearheads/rules/canon...<BR>Re: Lasers question...gearheads/rules/canon...<BR>Re: Lasers question...gearheads/rules/canon...<BR>Re: Trav-Trek Crossover<BR>Re: Trav-Trek crossover <BR>Re: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:14:28 GMT<BR>From: "Jeff Rowse" &lt;jeffrowse@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3106<BR><BR>In mail, I wrote...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ObTrav:<BR>&gt; &gt; "Whose ship was it you say passed dangerously close on approach?"<BR>&gt; &gt; "Don't know,officer, I didn't see a flag..."<BR><BR>And Leonard/Shadow replied...<BR><BR>&gt;SF movies and TV programs notwithstanding, ships in space will only be<BR>&gt;close enough to see each other in *telescopes*, never mind reading<BR>&gt;markings, only during rendezvous manuevers. And even in the rare cases<BR>&gt;they *do* pass close enough, they'll usually zip past too fast to see<BR>&gt;any details.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1000 km is a *close* approach. And 10 km/sec is a *low* velocity. At<BR>&gt;that velocity, a ship covers 1000 km in 100 seconds.<BR><BR>The key part of the phrase was *on approach* - the incident occurred as the <BR>reporter of the incident was about 30 seconds from landing and a freighter <BR>on an uncleared launch nearly took the passive sensor dish off the roof; the <BR>Port Authorities were trying to confirm the markings on the offending ship.<BR>TTFN,<BR>Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, Leg-end in his own launch-box)<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 14:36:37 +0100<BR>From: "MJ Dougherty" &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Classes and Names<BR><BR>On the subject of -thingy-class stuff... anyone know how what a Carl Gustav<BR>is?<BR><BR>An 84mm unguided missile launcher? Yup. But several other weapon systems<BR>bear the same name. An SMG for one.<BR><BR>M60 seems to be a common designation, too. For widely differing things. I<BR>wonder of the Imperial Ministry of Standards has fixed this one, or do the<BR>Imperial Forces order a crate of M292A3s from a plaetary supplier and get<BR>20,000 biscuits instead of antitank weapons.... or vice versa?<BR><BR>Chuckles...<BR><BR>MJD<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:35:34 -0400<BR>From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Trav-Trek Crossover<BR><BR>You guys have got it all wrong.<BR><BR>The real danger of a Trav-Trek crossover with Ditzie isn't that she's going<BR>to make Kirk look like the older Chris Pike or that she is going to steal<BR>technology from a military oligarchy that witholds it's own strategic<BR>technology (such as the cloaking device.)<BR><BR>The real danger comes if she runs into certain enhanced denizens of the<BR>delta quadrant who, after reviewing her prodigious rapport with machines,<BR>would no doubt make her their new monarch...<BR><BR>"Uncle Hengiiiiie, we assimilated Leeegals..."<BR><BR>Fred "We are Borg. Resistance is futile. Ask about our free catalog." Ramen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:35:21 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR><BR>Douglas Berry writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;For example, when I was in the service, there were three different pieces<BR>&gt;of equipment that were designated the "M-16A1".&nbsp; It made for some confusion.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do you mind if we call you Bruce, just to keep things straight?<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 07:47:51 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: FWD: Re: Titan Games Preview for (10/1/00)<BR><BR>&nbsp; FWIW, there's a bunch of Trav stuff listed this time:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.titangames.com/<BR><BR>&gt;FASA:<BR>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (Traveller)<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Adventure Class Ships: Vol. 1 (early folio printing) (B1) (missing<BR>booklet)[$20, Folio F-Contents NM]<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Rescue on Galatea (A6) [$16, VF]<BR>...<BR>&gt;Game Designer's Workshop:<BR>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (MegaTraveller)<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Player's Manual (211) [$9, NM]<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Imperial Encyclopedia (213) [$11, NM]<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Referee's Companion (215) [$12.5, NM]<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Fighting Ships of the Shattered Imperium (218) [$12, NM]<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The Diaspora Sector (224) [$11, N]<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (Misc. Science-Fiction Board Games)<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Imperium (0205) [$15, Boxed-N]<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Belter (0807) [$20, Box VF-Contents NM]<BR>...<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (Traveller)<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The Traveller Book (softbound) (201) [$29, VF]<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; (Traveller: The New Era)<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Smash &amp; Grab (305) [$9.5, NM]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 07:47:55 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover <BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ah, I see so you are lost in the shuffle.&nbsp; Though S. John Ross prominant<BR>&gt;&gt; in many of the books.&nbsp; And, I do own everything LUG put out, even Aria &amp; I<BR>&gt;&gt; still do not see you name anywhere.&nbsp; Must be my copies, huh?<BR><BR>&nbsp; Ooh, looks like someone's off their meds again?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:23:57 -0400<BR>From: "Walt Smith" &lt;smithw@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Red Zones (was Re: Trav-Trek crossover)<BR><BR>Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Red Zones...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Which are defined by the TAS in cases of danger to travelers, the Navy<BR>&gt; when they want to use a system for war games or as a gunnery range, &amp; the<BR>&gt; Scouts when they are expermenting with a culture.<BR><BR>I believe that TAS only designates Amber Zone (dangerous to travel in)<BR>classifications.&nbsp; Red Zone (forbidden under penalty of Imperial Law)<BR>classifications are entirely the responsibility of the Imperial<BR>government, usually through the Navy and the Scouts.<BR><BR>&gt; Basicly, they still have limited contact with the outside, but in the<BR>&gt; case of the Navy they are blasing the planet to bits,<BR><BR>Or simply punishing them for an infraction by cutting off all<BR>interstellar trade.&nbsp; Not all Navy Red Zones are bombing ranges.<BR><BR>&gt; in the case of the TAS they are warning people away,<BR><BR>That's an Amber Zone<BR><BR>&gt; &amp; in the case of the Scouts they are mucking around with the local<BR>&gt; planets population.<BR><BR>Or keeping others from doing so.&nbsp; Or keeping a freelance explorer<BR>from tranporting an unexpectedly nasty xenomorph to a heavily<BR>populated planet in their abdomen.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Has anyone thought how much power the TAS really has?&nbsp; I mean if they<BR>&gt; Red Zone a planet, then that planet loses a lot of off-world trade.<BR>&gt; And, as an official for the TAS can Red Zone a world, how corrupt can<BR>&gt; they be?&nbsp; Ie, "Give me 10 MCr, or I will Red Zone your planet."-type deal.<BR><BR>I can see a TAS official threatening to Amber-Zone a system (since<BR>they can't Red-Zone it)...that may have some bad effects on trade,<BR>such as raising minimum rates and lowering non-essential passenger<BR>travel.&nbsp; I'd expect the effects to be short-term as the Amber-Zone<BR>is discovered to be a bunch of hooey (since the vast majority of<BR>trade is local).&nbsp; The TAS official placing bogus Amber classifications<BR>should very soon be out of a job, as the hazards he warned of<BR>fail to appear.<BR><BR>I can see, as an adventure seed, a TAS official threatening to<BR>Amber-Zone a system unless a certain danger is taken care of<BR>quickly.&nbsp; "Unusual problem that needs to be taken care of quickly"<BR>has "party of Traveller PC's" written all over it, of course.<BR><BR>Walt Smith<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:32:36 EDT<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; To expose Kirk to an adult member of Famile Spofulam (whatever her name <BR>&gt;&gt; might be) is a good way to prematurely end his career and the glorious <BR>name <BR>&gt;&gt; of Enterprise. FS women don't jilt well at all...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Who says it'd get that far. I think she'd find his attempts to<BR>&gt;"romance" her to be *at best* annoying.<BR><BR>I'm assuming that Kirk's success is not based entirely (or even strongly) on <BR>skill, given some of the strong wills he was able to break during his <BR>"career". Thus, even a Spofulam will weaken in his immediate presence. What <BR>she does after he (tries to) get away is another kettle 'o redshirts...<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 09:05:40 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Striker nukes<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Actually, the "rule of thumb" is that blast damage increases as the<BR>&gt; *cube root* of the yield. That is, the blast damage X yards from a 1<BR>&gt; kiloton device is the same as the damage at 10X yards from a 1 megaton<BR>&gt; device. <BR><BR>That seems to be the rule of thumb for chemical explosives, which works out<BR>to x10 energy = x2.15 radius.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you want to get technical, the figure is that the effects go as the<BR>&gt; 1/3.4 power of the yield. that's based on nuke blasts and studies of<BR>&gt; impact craters. <BR><BR>I've also seen 10^0.3.&nbsp; However, the difference is only about 2%, which is<BR>probably within the margin of error.<BR><BR>As a side point, does anyone know if the different formulae used for chemical<BR>explosives (as in, say, explosives safety manuals) and large/nonconventional<BR>explosives represents actual changes in blast mechanics as yield increases, <BR>or just a rounding error?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 12:06:16 -0600<BR>From: "David J. Golden" &lt;goldendj@pcisys.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Virus Lives! (and TNE Rocks!)<BR><BR>(from the 2 Oct LangaList ...)<BR><BR>It was serendipity: Researchers were trying to pin down the source of<BR>"microcontamination" in computer chip production lines, and traced it<BR>to an extremely hardy bacterium that could actually build itself a<BR>protective casing out of the dissolved semiconductor materials<BR>present in otherwise-pure chip wash water. The semiconductor shell<BR>made the bacteria resistant to normal disinfecting and cleansing<BR>techniques.<BR><BR>*******************************************************************<BR>*******************************************************************<BR>But the researchers soon realized the encased bacteria were actually<BR>a kind of biological semiconductor that could be employed to make<BR>living transistors!<BR>*******************************************************************<BR>*******************************************************************<BR>(emphasis added)<BR><BR>It sounds like science-fiction, but it's real: The immediate<BR>application of these bio-transistors will probably be in sensors.<BR>Like canaries in coal mines, the living transistors would switch<BR>"off" when exposed to a biohazardous material, triggering an<BR>electronic alarm.<BR><BR>Of course, that's just the first step, and there's no telling where<BR>the technology of living, breathing, (reproducing?) circuitry may<BR>lead.<BR><BR>You'll find more info on this and other far-out---but real!---<BR>advances along the road to "The Ultimate PC," in my current "Monitor"<BR>column at Byte.Com: http://www.byte.com/column/BYT20000920S0001 .<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -- The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; So I installed Linux ...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:08 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Looking for forms....<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;OE19WEF0HG0anlzmUR7000008e8@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>There is something called 'Suppliment 12: Forms &amp; Charts', but I didn't <BR>ever bother to buy one. An early article in WHITE DWARF also covered the <BR>matter - G. Nix 'A Few Small Formalities' White Dwarf 50:10-11. 1984, if I <BR>remember correctly.<BR><BR>I usually knock up my own, it's not difficult in a decent word processor <BR>program these days. Bung in some official looking logos, mess around with <BR>interesting typefaces &amp; so on...<BR><BR>If you'd like some, please contact me offlist with your requirements :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:08 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (long)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;Pine.SOL.4.10.10010011111580.1705-100000@harper.uchicago.edu&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Please stop bickering, or if you must, take it to e-mail and insult each <BR>other in private.<BR><BR>As (yet another) freelance game writer who also has a full-time job, a 4 <BR>year old daughter and has just come back from holiday (only 3758 more <BR>messages to read...) I don't have time for childish squabbles.<BR><BR>Thank you :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 18:08 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;000201c0284d$ad368c80$5d271b3f@MSN/daveshayne&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>A starship crew needs some kinda rationale for, erm, Travelling. So a <BR>merchant venture is an obvious one. But there are plenty of things you can <BR>do to avoid being a pure trading simulation: -<BR><BR>1. The characters receive a subsiduary contract from the local Scouts to <BR>update the Planetary Gazeteer entry of each world they visit. They will <BR>have a checklist of data they have to gather, and get paid on a per-planet <BR>basis. Of course, some of the things you get them to inquire about or <BR>investigate are likely to get them shot on some worlds (e.g. military <BR>strength &amp; resources, or maybe even something innocuous like details of <BR>government or major religious faiths....).<BR><BR>2. Throw in a misjump. They then need to find out where they are and how <BR>to get home. Oh, and some of the goods are perishable. And others were on <BR>a contract to be delivered to a given destination, not 'trade <BR>goods'(i.e speculative purchases you hope to sell at your destination)...<BR><BR>3. Send 'em to an unfriendly world where the natives are extremely <BR>xenophobic and only barely tolerate visitors even if they have something <BR>useful to sell. Of course, something amidst the trade goods may be illegal <BR>or offensive to the locals :-)<BR><BR>4. They come out of jump to find a deserted ship. Looks like it's been <BR>shot up real bad. While they take a look (which, for some reason, players <BR>always do... ) a Navy ship tools up and arrests them for piracy, murder, <BR>and any other crime you can come up with.<BR><BR>Erm... that's just off the top of my head. Want more?<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:10:26 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The 'Amber Nectar' (was 'UK &amp; Hard Times')<BR><BR>michael.scanlon wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; have you ever had a mix of the winecooler, Castaway, which is quite weak,<BR>&gt; something like 3.2% alcohol, and also very sweet; with a white cider,<BR>&gt; Diamond White, not too strong, something like 7.2% alcohol, quite dry. When<BR>&gt; mixed together you would think you were drinking Lilt, with the totally<BR>&gt; tropical taste. It's a WIZ. You can keep on drinking these all night long.<BR><BR>Eeeeewwwwww YUCK!<BR><BR>Of course, that might be influenced by the fact that Lilt (in the US) is<BR>a line of shampoos, conditioners and hair colors...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 10:12:47 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR><BR>On Mon, 2 Oct 2000 GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; I'm assuming that Kirk's success is not based entirely (or even<BR>&gt; strongly) on skill, given some of the strong wills he was able to<BR>&gt; break during his "career". Thus, even a Spofulam will weaken in his<BR>&gt; immediate presence. What she does after he (tries to) get away is<BR>&gt; another kettle 'o redshirts...<BR><BR>Warning:&nbsp; Female sexual honesty alert!&nbsp; Do not read if hearing women say<BR>things that are unromantic and blatantly self-serving about sex disturbs<BR>you!<BR><BR>I don't think so.&nbsp; I thought he was kind of cool when I was eleven; once I<BR>was old enough to know what to DO with my hormones, I thought he was<BR>smarmy.&nbsp; I can't imagine that he "broke" those wills.&nbsp; Maybe they thought<BR>he would make a nice boy toy.&nbsp; I've slept with a few players, men I didn't<BR>have a lot of respect for, because I was bored, had no time for a real<BR>relationship with someone who could commit, and I figured they had enough<BR>experience to make it worth my while.&nbsp; A few times I was even right.&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>I can believe a man like Kirk getting laid a lot and that most of the<BR>women retained friendly feelings if he went about it right.&nbsp; I can't<BR>believe for a second that all those women were in love with HIM.<BR><BR>There's also the groupie effect of galactic heroism.&nbsp; Sometimes women will<BR>sleep with a guy who is considered Real Cool just because it would be Real<BR>Cool to have done that.&nbsp; I'd probably do several of my favorite musicians,<BR>even though I know that in the process I might find out enough about them<BR>to crush my idealization of them.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 11:29:55 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>If the 3I military is anything like the U.S. military, everything in<BR>the supply system has a unique numbers (NSN in the U.S. Navy).&nbsp; These<BR>are multi digit beasties with lots of hyphens -- and being so lend<BR>themselves to the occasional transposition.&nbsp; For instance, I once<BR>ordered several pair of flight deck boots for my division and ended up<BR>receiving eight stand-up refrigerators (which I promptly returned as<BR>they were going to charge our OPTAR $4000 for the lot).<BR><BR>I can just see some Imperial Navy supply petty officer receiving sewing<BR>needles when he was sure he ordered jump drive coils.<BR><BR><BR><BR>- --- MJ Dougherty &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; On the subject of -thingy-class stuff... anyone know how what a Carl<BR>&gt; Gustav<BR>&gt; is?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; An 84mm unguided missile launcher? Yup. But several other weapon<BR>&gt; systems<BR>&gt; bear the same name. An SMG for one.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; M60 seems to be a common designation, too. For widely differing<BR>&gt; things. I<BR>&gt; wonder of the Imperial Ministry of Standards has fixed this one, or<BR>&gt; do the<BR>&gt; Imperial Forces order a crate of M292A3s from a plaetary supplier and<BR>&gt; get<BR>&gt; 20,000 biscuits instead of antitank weapons.... or vice versa?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Chuckles...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; MJD<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:10:09<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR><BR>At 10:35 AM 10/2/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Douglas Berry writes:<BR>&gt;&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;For example, when I was in the service, there were three different pieces<BR>&gt;&gt;of equipment that were designated the "M-16A1".&nbsp; It made for some confusion.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Do you mind if we call you Bruce, just to keep things straight?<BR><BR>Exactly.&nbsp; It didn't help that two of those items were common infantry<BR>issue.. the M-16A1 assault rifle, and the M-16A1 antipersonnel mine.<BR><BR>As a sniper, it got worse, since M-21 was both my rifle, an antitank mine,<BR>and a chemical decontamination kit.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 10:27:42<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>At 02:36 PM 10/2/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt;On the subject of -thingy-class stuff... anyone know how what a Carl Gustav<BR>&gt;is?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;An 84mm unguided missile launcher? Yup. But several other weapon systems<BR>&gt;bear the same name. An SMG for one.<BR><BR>It is common knowledge that every single piece of equipment in Sweden is<BR>named the Carl Gustav.&nbsp; It was a running joke in an old T2K game I was in.<BR><BR>&gt;M60 seems to be a common designation, too. For widely differing things. I<BR>&gt;wonder of the Imperial Ministry of Standards has fixed this one, or do the<BR>&gt;Imperial Forces order a crate of M292A3s from a plaetary supplier and get<BR>&gt;20,000 biscuits instead of antitank weapons.... or vice versa?<BR><BR>Ground Forces will be out soon, and you learn grasshopper, learn about the<BR>Imperial Standard Catalog Number....<BR><BR>&gt;Chuckles...<BR><BR>Oh, yeah..<BR><BR>"Fleet Sergeant, what happened?"<BR><BR>"Well sir, we needed to order 80 new med packs, which have the ISCN<BR>179-GUS3-73590.&nbsp; But somehow, it got twisted into 719-GUS3-73590, and<BR>supply acted on that request."<BR><BR>"Amazing."<BR><BR>"Yes, sir."<BR><BR>"What I find most interesting here, Fleet Sergeant, is not only that a<BR>Marine Regiment is authorized a 'Chapel, Field, Virushi, with attendant',<BR>but that somehow someone would think that we needed 80 of them!"<BR><BR>"I'll try to get them to chant a bit more quietly, sir."<BR><BR>"Do that, and have the duty company issued mops."<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>limbs!"&nbsp; - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:37:15 -0700<BR>From: "Jason Bernstein" &lt;apoc527@u.washington.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Lasers question...gearheads/rules/canon...<BR><BR>This is a cross between a gearhead question and a canon question (I guess<BR>you could include rules in there too):<BR><BR>In GT, the lasers are presumably of the "beam" variety using the, at some<BR>times questionable, GURPS Laser Autofire rules.&nbsp; I actually have the T4<BR>book, Emperor's Arsenal, and it seems that lasers in there are more like<BR>"Pulse" lasers (but still have automatic fire).&nbsp; What is the best solution<BR>here?&nbsp; I happen to really like lasers, so would hate to see them as pathetic<BR>as they are with the GURPS Pulse Laser rule (simply double damage: ooooh, a<BR>4d laser pistol!!!).&nbsp; However, I'm not sure the current GT rule makes sense<BR>nor does it necessarily fit with canon.&nbsp; What do you all think?<BR><BR>- -Jake Bernstein<BR>apoc527@u.washington.edu<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 13:55:23 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers question...gearheads/rules/canon...<BR><BR>Jason Bernstein writes:<BR>&gt; This is a cross between a gearhead question and a canon question (I guess<BR>&gt; you could include rules in there too):<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In GT, the lasers are presumably of the "beam" variety using the, at some<BR>&gt; times questionable, GURPS Laser Autofire rules.&nbsp; I actually have the T4<BR>&gt; book, Emperor's Arsenal, and it seems that lasers in there are more like<BR>&gt; "Pulse" lasers (but still have automatic fire).&nbsp; What is the best solution<BR>&gt; here?&nbsp; I happen to really like lasers, so would hate to see them as<BR>&gt; pathetic as they are with the GURPS Pulse Laser rule (simply double<BR>&gt; damage: ooooh, a 4d laser pistol!!!).&nbsp; However, I'm not sure the current GT<BR>&gt; rule makes sense nor does it necessarily fit with canon.&nbsp; What do you all<BR>&gt; think? <BR><BR>Well, the realistic rule is to throw out the laser autofire rules and _not_<BR>increase damage (ooh, a 2d laser pistol).&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:16:33 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Lasers question...gearheads/rules/canon...<BR><BR>On 2 Oct 2000, at 13:37, Jason Bernstein wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; This is a cross between a gearhead question and a canon question (I guess<BR>&gt; you could include rules in there too):<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In GT, the lasers are presumably of the "beam" variety using the, at some<BR>&gt; times questionable, GURPS Laser Autofire rules.&nbsp; I actually have the T4<BR>&gt; book, Emperor's Arsenal, and it seems that lasers in there are more like<BR>&gt; "Pulse" lasers (but still have automatic fire).&nbsp; What is the best solution<BR>&gt; here?&nbsp; I happen to really like lasers, so would hate to see them as pathetic as<BR>&gt; they are with the GURPS Pulse Laser rule (simply double damage: ooooh, a 4d<BR>&gt; laser pistol!!!).&nbsp; However, I'm not sure the current GT rule makes sense nor<BR>&gt; does it necessarily fit with canon.&nbsp; What do you all think?<BR><BR>Given that laser fire is impaling in GURPS I'd be quite happy with 4d damge - <BR>it's more than a .30-06 does, afterall.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:26:47 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav-Trek Crossover<BR><BR>From: VonRammen &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;The real danger comes if she runs into certain enhanced denizens of the<BR>&gt;delta quadrant who, after reviewing her prodigious rapport with machines,<BR>&gt;would no doubt make her their new monarch...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Uncle Hengiiiiie, we assimilated Leeegals..."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Fred "We are Borg. Resistance is futile. Ask about our free catalog." Ramen<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; So does this make the older Ditzie look like Alice Kirge?<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 16:28:44 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover <BR><BR>From: Steven Hudson &lt;shudson@lightspeed.ca&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Ah, I see so you are lost in the shuffle.&nbsp; Though S. John Ross<BR>prominant<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; in many of the books.&nbsp; And, I do own everything LUG put out, even Aria &amp;<BR>I<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; still do not see you name anywhere.&nbsp; Must be my copies, huh?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Ooh, looks like someone's off their meds again?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Steve, its your job to make sure I get my meds, &amp; you haven't been<BR>giving them to me.&nbsp; So who's fault is it now?<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:07:54 +1000<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On JTAS and Pyramid, there has been a lot of discussion on the<BR>ineffectivness of missiles in GT (primarily due to the point defense rules).<BR>Here are two options:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (1) Since missiles are built as vehicles, give then the Cheap option (half<BR>cost, -1 HT). There is really no reason not to do this anyway.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; (2) Change the point defense rules to: roll separately to intercept each<BR>missile, at a cumulative -2 per additional missile fired at. If the<BR>defending ship has a large number of PD weapons, organize them as batteries<BR>and use the Hits by Automatic Weapons rules (for ROF, use the number of PD<BR>weapons in the battery). For each "round" that hits, one missile is<BR>destroyed.<BR><BR>(3) Accept that contact missiles are not military weapons for use against<BR>'real' warships, but rather are a weapon system that are used by and on<BR>civilians and auxiliaries. Given the (IMO) silly detection ranges in G:T,<BR>(IMO) point defense lasers should be even more effective than they are under<BR>that ruleset, anyway.<BR><BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3114<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 3 2000&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3115<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Merchant Campaign (newbie)<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Carl Gustov's<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Jump Speed<BR>Re: Carl Gustov's<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3114<BR>Re: Red Zones (was Re: Trav-Trek crossover)<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Chapel Authorizations (was: Re: Classes and Names)<BR>Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR>[ADV] Relaunching The Traveller Trader<BR>Re: Jump speed<BR>Plea for font help!<BR>RE: Plea for font help!<BR>RE: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR>Re: Red Zones (was Re: Trav-Trek crossover)<BR>Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR>Re: Carl Gustov's<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 15:30:43 +1000<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Merchant Campaign (newbie)<BR><BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Merchant Campaigns (newbie)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm new to Traveller and don't have much experience as the GM of any game.<BR>I<BR>&gt; like the idea of merchant campaigns, but I'm worried that the gameplay<BR>will<BR>&gt; degenerate into "buy-jump-sell", with little or no roleplaying. If anyone<BR>&gt; could give me some pointers, I'd really appreciate it.<BR><BR>I want to second everything that everyone else has said, and add a couple of<BR>points.<BR><BR>Firstly, put as much work into cargos as you would with NPCs. In a combat<BR>game, the elite enemy sniper that is giving the PCs so much trouble over so<BR>many sessions will get something more than 'Sniper #3' as his stats, so a<BR>cargo should get more than '3 dtons of Computers. KCr 150 a dton'.<BR><BR>Secondly, put hooks into cargos for all the players. One of the dangers in a<BR>trading campaign is that the purser and the captain will have all the fun.<BR>Getting the players into the Military Surplus business will let<BR>military-type PCs have fun, as they argue with the vendors about the<BR>relative merits of various bits of hardware, as well as taking it for test<BR>drives with representitives of the faction they are trying to sell it to.<BR>Try to set up cargos that get the Engineer, or the Medic, or the Security<BR>guy to go along, to make sure that the goods are as advertised (Hook : "I've<BR>got a good line on a IN-surplus power plant". Sinker ; it's an old fission<BR>plant, damages when a contingent of Imperial Marines took it from a pirate<BR>base in an outsystem. Until it gets repaired, it's a nuclear accident<BR>waiting to happen. On the other hand, if repaired, it's a much better<BR>emergency backup for a belter colony than no backup power plant)<BR><BR>Thirdly, one of the players will probably take a combat monster Marine. Take<BR>his character sheet, and add 'Cargo Handling' skill to it, explaining that<BR>he picked up stuff about loading and unloading ships, because the Marines<BR>dont depend on civilian contractors for that, unlike the namby-pamby<BR>Imperial Army. He's in charge of loading and unloading, as well as liasing<BR>with the local stevedores and upshoremen. This will make sure they dont get<BR>too bored, and when you need a not-too-deadly fight, well, throw in a<BR>strike, or an attempted theft or strongarming by local criminal elements (NB<BR>having someone buy him a Famile Spofulam Light Export Forklift by mistake<BR>could be fun. Whilst complying with all Ministry of Commerce regulations<BR>pertaining to forklifts, it is never the less capable of a straight-line<BR>ground speed of some 400 limometers an hour).<BR><BR>Finally, trade is about relationships. Try to keep the players within a<BR>subsector or so, and encourage them to correspond with their agents on<BR>various planets (NB give them a contact on each planet. It is incredibly<BR>useful for them if they have an import agent, or a lawyer, or their<BR>brother-in-law on each planet they visit. It also means that you can have a<BR>friend waiting for them when they get to planets, telling them about<BR>opportunities on each world).<BR><BR>A campaign set around a muilitary-surplus business can be fun. Especially if<BR>they have to pick up batches of captured enemy equipment from depots that<BR>were in a safe rear area when the deal was struck.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 17:34:20 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Oh, yeah..<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Fleet Sergeant, what happened?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Well sir, we needed to order 80 new med packs, which have the ISCN<BR>&gt; 179-GUS3-73590.&nbsp; But somehow, it got twisted into 719-GUS3-73590, and<BR>&gt; supply acted on that request."<BR><BR>Which is why it's a good idea to have things set up the way the<BR>Canadian and UK Postal codes are. They use alternating number/letter<BR>patterns so that if you transpose things, you get not merely a bad<BR>code, but an *obviously* bad one. For example:<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ?#? #?#<BR><BR>Where ? is a letter, and # is a digit.&nbsp; Not only can't you swap<BR>adjacent characters without it being glaringly obvious, you can't swap<BR>the groups either. They also avoid using confusing characters<BR>(0O,1l,MN, etc). That limits the range a bit but not all that badly. <BR><BR>Forthe sort of numbers the Imperium might need, you'd probably use<BR>groups with several different lengths, all odd, and all set up like the<BR>above, so you don't ever get adjacent characters of the same "type". <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 17:35:28 -0400<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustov's<BR><BR>I had an old engineer sergeant back around 77' who told a story of grading a<BR>road in Nam' in the mid 60's with heavy equipment.&nbsp; The blade turned up a<BR>board and he checked it out.&nbsp; What he found was a crate of Carl Gustov SMGs<BR>in "cosmoline".<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>&gt;Douglas E. Berry&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt;http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:22:22 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 4:29:am<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR><BR>&gt; If the 3I military is anything like the U.S. military, everything in<BR>&gt; the supply system has a unique numbers (NSN in the U.S. Navy).&nbsp; These<BR>&gt; are multi digit beasties with lots of hyphens -- and being so lend<BR>&gt; themselves to the occasional transposition.&nbsp; For instance, I once<BR>&gt; ordered several pair of flight deck boots for my division and ended up<BR>&gt; receiving eight stand-up refrigerators (which I promptly returned as<BR>&gt; they were going to charge our OPTAR $4000 for the lot).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I can just see some Imperial Navy supply petty officer receiving sewing<BR>&gt; needles when he was sure he ordered jump drive coils.<BR><BR>And do the US military do that reverse name/description thing?&nbsp; Like,<BR>"Razor, shaving, face thereof?" Or "Paint, Green, Olive...?" :^)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:43:05 -0400<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Speed<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:06:47 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The "correct" situation is that relativity doesn't allow for absolute<BR>&gt; or preferred frames of reference.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; FTL and "travel into the past" are the same thing in such a case.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Travel into the past greatly complicates causality. If there aren't<BR>&gt; tight "limits" on it, causality ceases to exist.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But you *can* have FTL *and* relativity as long as you are willing to<BR>&gt; accept the consequences of time travel.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, as I said before, pick any two:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Relativity<BR>&gt; FTL<BR>&gt; Strict local causality<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; With FTL, some observers will see end of the trip occuring *before* the<BR>&gt; start *after* they correct for the time it took for the light from each<BR>&gt; event to reach them.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I'll take option 1 and half of 2 and half of 3. Yes I know physics does<BR>not work that way, but this is a jump drive handwave my brain force fed<BR>me last night. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The strict local causality can only be violated using FTL in practice<BR>if there is actually an observer in the proper reference frame. The<BR>usual example is one space ship start in system A and FTL jumps to<BR>system B, where a second space ship (usually traveling near the speed of<BR>light) observes the first star ship and using its FTL drive, jumps back<BR>to System A and arrives before the first ship left. However if the<BR>second ship is not moving rapidly enough it can't observer the first<BR>ship in time to be able to intercept it before it leaves system A. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Therefore the jump drive only works if there are no observers with a<BR>reference frame which could cause a violation of causality. Since we<BR>still want all of relativity we can not use a universal fixed frame of<BR>reference. Instead there is a "common" frame of reference. The Jump<BR>Drive only affects an area a few parsecs in diameter, much smaller than<BR>the entire universe. All objects above a small but definable size must<BR>have a velocity small enough relative to the jumping ship so if it were<BR>a ship, the return jump would appear after first ship had left. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; For Traveller jump drives the velocities are:<BR>Jump 1:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3,104,000 m/s<BR>Jump 2: 1,552,000 m/s<BR>Jump 3: 1,034,600 m/s<BR>Jump 4:&nbsp;&nbsp; 776,000 m/s<BR>Jump 5:&nbsp;&nbsp; 620,800 m/s<BR>Jump 6:&nbsp;&nbsp; 517,300 m/s<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; That is, given the example above when the first ship enters the system<BR>B, as long as the second ship has a relative velocity below the value<BR>given and jumps back to system A, the second ship arrives just shortly<BR>after the first ship leaves. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Physics does not distinguish between a real living observer and an<BR>object which may contain an observer, unless you like to assume that<BR>jump drive/jump space is all psionics based. Therefore we treat all<BR>objects (over 100 dTons) as potential observers.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; This has several interesting side effects. First, there is a definite<BR>upper limit on jump drive range. The orbital velocity of the planets<BR>(Mercury has an orbital velocity of 47,867 m/s) and the relative motion<BR>of the stars limits the range of the drive. Some systems may not be<BR>accessible by higher jump drives. Using a Jump 6 drive involves more<BR>than simply moving to 100D limit, it also implies matching velocities<BR>with the target system. <BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Second, if you assume the reactionless thruster/gravity thruster<BR>maneuver drive works based upon pushing against the same dimensional<BR>space the Jump drive moves through, there is now an upper limit on the<BR>velocity of the maneuver drive. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; You can use a large rock and a reaction thruster (like HEPLaR) to<BR>"lock" a system, by putting the rock into a long high velocity orbit.<BR>Depending upon the area restricted by the high velocity rock, you could<BR>shut down access to a system for a few months, a few years, or even<BR>centuries. <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; With a large area affected by a large moving "rock", The rimward edge<BR>of the Solomani rim may still be barred by one or several sub-light<BR>sleeper ships launched during the Terran Confederation days. <BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Comments?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 21:47:27 -0500<BR>From: Sinbad Sam &lt;sinbad@hex.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustov's<BR><BR>At 04:35 PM 10/02/2000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;I had an old engineer sergeant back around 77' who told a story of grading a<BR>&gt;road in Nam' in the mid 60's with heavy equipment.&nbsp; The blade turned up a<BR>&gt;board and he checked it out.&nbsp; What he found was a crate of Carl Gustov SMGs<BR>&gt;in "cosmoline".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dan<BR><BR>Hmmm IIRC the Carl Gustov was portable recoilless rifle of around 85mm, I do not know if was around during in the Nam during he 60's, but IDRC the name for the swedish SMG's of that era.<BR><BR>Sinbad Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 20:03:41 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3114<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; "Fleet Sergeant, what happened?"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Well sir, we needed to order 80 new med packs, which have the ISCN<BR>&gt; 179-GUS3-73590.&nbsp; But somehow, it got twisted into 719-GUS3-73590, and<BR>&gt; supply acted on that request."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Amazing."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Yes, sir."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "What I find most interesting here, Fleet Sergeant, is not only that a<BR>&gt; Marine Regiment is authorized a 'Chapel, Field, Virushi, with attendant',<BR>&gt; but that somehow someone would think that we needed 80 of them!"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "I'll try to get them to chant a bit more quietly, sir."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Do that, and have the duty company issued mops."<BR><BR>Ahhhhhhhhhhrrrrrrrggggggg.<BR><BR>I think you get a 2.9 with cherries for that one, Doug; I busted up while my <BR>frigging business manager was standing next to me using my phone. <BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 22:01:31 -0500<BR>From: Jimmy Simpson &lt;nimrod@santech.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Red Zones (was Re: Trav-Trek crossover)<BR><BR>At 11:23 AM 10/2/2000 -0400, Walt Smith wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I can see a TAS official threatening to Amber-Zone a system (since<BR>&gt;they can't Red-Zone it)...that may have some bad effects on trade,<BR>&gt;such as raising minimum rates and lowering non-essential passenger<BR>&gt;travel.&nbsp; I'd expect the effects to be short-term as the Amber-Zone<BR>&gt;is discovered to be a bunch of hooey (since the vast majority of<BR>&gt;trade is local).&nbsp; The TAS official placing bogus Amber classifications<BR>&gt;should very soon be out of a job, as the hazards he warned of<BR>&gt;fail to appear.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I can see, as an adventure seed, a TAS official threatening to<BR>&gt;Amber-Zone a system unless a certain danger is taken care of<BR>&gt;quickly.&nbsp; "Unusual problem that needs to be taken care of quickly"<BR>&gt;has "party of Traveller PC's" written all over it, of course.<BR><BR>I believe that during the Fifth Frontier War, the TAS posted the entire <BR>subsectors of Jewell, Regina &amp; Vilis as Amber Zones (IIRC).&nbsp; This was <BR>listed in one of the TNS reports in JTAS.<BR><BR><BR>Jimmy Simpson<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; nimrodd@mail.com<BR>"Cannot say.<BR>&nbsp; Saying, I would know.<BR>&nbsp; Do not know.<BR>&nbsp; So cannot say."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -Zathras (Babylon 5)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 20:48:43 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Steven Spiroff &lt;sspiroff@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>&gt; If the 3I military is anything like the U.S. military, everything in<BR>&gt; the supply system has a unique numbers (NSN in the U.S. Navy).&nbsp; These<BR><BR>When I was stationed at SIMA Pearl Harbor some years ago, we asked one of the<BR>new kids in the ET shop to order "about a hundred of those little 3 inch<BR>plastic cable ties", you know the ones that go "zip!" when you tighten them up?<BR>Well, he didn't check the unit of measure and we ended up getting 100 boxes of<BR>little 3 inch cable ties on the pier one morning, one thousand per box. Turns<BR>out the paperwork to return them was enormous so our chief decided to just keep<BR>them.<BR><BR>Just imagine the fun your players will have stowing 100,000 rolls of toilet<BR>paper!<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Steven<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 22:56:52 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Chapel Authorizations (was: Re: Classes and Names)<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Fleet Sergeant, what happened?"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Well sir, we needed to order 80 new med packs, which have the ISCN<BR>&gt; 179-GUS3-73590.&nbsp; But somehow, it got twisted into 719-GUS3-73590, and<BR>&gt; supply acted on that request."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Amazing."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Yes, sir."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "What I find most interesting here, Fleet Sergeant, is not only that a<BR>&gt; Marine Regiment is authorized a 'Chapel, Field, Virushi, with attendant',<BR>&gt; but that somehow someone would think that we needed 80 of them!"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "I'll try to get them to chant a bit more quietly, sir."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Do that, and have the duty company issued mops."<BR><BR>Actually, I can see how a Marine Regiment might be authorized 80 (or<BR>more) Chapels, Field, Virushi, with attendant (hereafter "CFVw/A").<BR><BR>Since I do not yet own GT:GF, I shall use typical late 20th century<BR>ratios of lower/higher echelons in combat forces (i.e., 3:1), and<BR>leaving all non-infantry sub-units out of the equation.<BR><BR>1 Regiment = 3 Battalions<BR>3 Battalions = 9 Companies<BR>9 Companies = 27 Platoons<BR>27 Platoons = 81 Squads<BR><BR>A Marine Regiment on peacekeeping duties could possibly be dispersed in<BR>squad elements over a large area.&nbsp; Under such circumstances, each squad<BR>may be authorized (under a given unit's peacekeeping MTOE*) a "Chapel,<BR>Field, Virushi, with attendant, ISCN 719-GUS3-73590."&nbsp; Indeed, the<BR>supporting ALOC (Admin/Logistics Operations Center) may well wonder why<BR>only 80 CFVw/As (ISCN 719-GUS3-73590) were requested, since<BR>headquarters, support, and service support elements at each echelon<BR>would also be authorized CFVw/As (ISCN 719-GUS3-73590).<BR><BR>*MTOE:&nbsp; Modified Table of Organization and Equipment<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:19:50 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: "Class" Vehicles<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Gerry noted:<BR>&gt;Small craft and vehicles are not refered to as X-class.<BR><BR>True, and a reasonable observation. I never thought of it before. It seems to be<BR>a function of generica: a hangover from the integration of High Guard with<BR>Striker. High Guard uses class names and types (the Ship Type Codes), so the<BR>generic, all-encompassing MT Craft Design System uses them as well.<BR><BR>Really the Trepida should just be the Trepida, just as the Abrams is the Abrams.<BR>For vehicles, the "class" should just be the overall class, such as the<BR>divisions used within _101 Vehicles_: military, para-military, civilian (or<BR>maybe you could create a few lower-level labels such as "tank", "IFV", "civilian<BR>transport", etc).<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 23:21:13 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: [ADV] Relaunching The Traveller Trader<BR><BR>After taking the summer off to change jobs (and states), I have redone and<BR>relaunched The Traveller Trader, the capitalist wing of the Downport.com<BR>empire. For those who have not visited, it is a little, used games site that<BR>buys, sells and trades nothing but Traveller-related materials. The point of<BR>the place is to make as much OOP Traveller available as possible, while<BR>scaring up a bit of green to offset some of the costs incurred running an<BR>exclusively Traveller web domain/server.<BR><BR>In this most recent update, I have added a bunch of oddball items from JG, a<BR>couple of GT titles, a few MT things, some periodicals, etc. I am again<BR>actively seeking collections to purchase and make available at my<BR>traditionally reasonable prices. I don't normally make announcements<BR>on-list, so you might want to save the URL to check occasionally.<BR><BR>http://www.downport.com/ttt<BR><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~&lt;&gt;&lt;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:21:16 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Legate said:<BR>&gt;Spinal Mounts, Meson Guns, PAWs, Fusion Guns, Plasma Guns, Black Globe,<BR>&gt;Stealth, lots &amp; lots &amp; lots of missiles, good point defense.&nbsp; *weg*&nbsp; Ask me<BR>&gt;about how I know all of this sometime.<BR><BR>OK, I'll bite. "How do you know all of this sometime?"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:06:21 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Plea for font help!<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Help!<BR><BR>I am trying to find a specific font to use for Caradoc LIC's logo.<BR><BR>I have created a page which contains three examples of the font. I would like to<BR>find a TrueType version, or at least know the name of the font, so I can ask for<BR>it at places like Adobe. ;-)<BR><BR>If you are a font whizz and have the time, could you please take a look at the<BR>page and see if you recognise the font:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beowulf Down ==&gt; Tavonni Repair Bays ==&gt; A Plea for Help: Caradoc LIC's<BR>logo.<BR><BR>BTW, I have also added the _Golden Wanderer_, a 500t HG "merchant" design to my<BR>web site, stored under Tavonni Specialities ==&gt; Lone Scout Enterprises ==&gt;<BR>Golden Wanderer (a design that AuricTech would be proud of - "500t and only 60t<BR>cargo??!!"). Goodness, it must be time to join the Deckplans Webring!&nbsp; ;-)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 01:49:45 -0400<BR>From: "Chris Seamans" &lt;semo@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Plea for font help!<BR><BR>&gt;If you are a font whizz and have the time, could you please take a look at<BR>the<BR>&gt;page and see if you recognise the font:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Beowulf Down ==&gt; Tavonni Repair Bays ==&gt; A Plea for Help: Caradoc<BR>LIC's<BR>&gt;logo.<BR><BR>I would love to give it a shot, but as it turns out, www.tip.net.au keeps<BR>refusing my connection. Maybe I'll give it a shot in a few hours.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:34:54 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR><BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; I've slept with a few players, men I didn't have a lot of respect for,<BR>because<BR>&gt; I was bored, had no time for a real relationship with someone who could<BR>commit,<BR>&gt; and I figured they had enough experience to make it worth my while.<BR><BR>Er, please don't say that sort of thing. I'm trying very hard to convince my<BR>wife that sex never enters into player's minds, and that it's perfectly<BR>alright that I spend Saturday nights dressed as a vampire, pretending to<BR>suck on the neck of these young gothettes who are half my age....&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; I can believe a man like Kirk getting laid a lot and that most of the<BR>&gt; women retained friendly feelings if he went about it right.&nbsp; I can't<BR>&gt; believe for a second that all those women were in love with HIM.<BR><BR>I think Gypsy Comet was implying some sort of special biological or psionic<BR>weapon was being unwittingly used by Kirk here.<BR><BR>&gt; There's also the groupie effect of galactic heroism.&nbsp; Sometimes women will<BR>&gt; sleep with a guy who is considered Real Cool just because it would be Real<BR>&gt; Cool to have done that.&nbsp; I'd probably do several of my favorite musicians,<BR>&gt; even though I know that in the process I might find out enough about them<BR>&gt; to crush my idealization of them.<BR><BR>I'd support that, a female friend of mine keeps moaning that she didn't try<BR>and seduce Neil Gaiman when he was out here.<BR><BR>My wife, on the other hand, thinks he looked sleazy and was trying too hard<BR>to be cool, and has a bigger nose than I do.<BR><BR>Of course, she is my wife, so when it comes to her opinon on men, I have to<BR>accept that she might not tell me the truth.&nbsp; :=)<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:58:15 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR><BR>Can anyone on the list point me to FFS1 stats for the standard Imperial<BR>Heavy Fighter. Which I require for the TNE version of the Tigress class<BR>battleship I have just about finished.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:13:48 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Red Zones (was Re: Trav-Trek crossover)<BR><BR>From: Walt Smith &lt;smithw@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I believe that TAS only designates Amber Zone (dangerous to travel in)<BR>&gt;classifications.&nbsp; Red Zone (forbidden under penalty of Imperial Law)<BR>&gt;classifications are entirely the responsibility of the Imperial<BR>&gt;government, usually through the Navy and the Scouts.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; IIRC, &amp; I may not, but YMMV, TAS has the right to designate a system as<BR>a Red Zone if need be.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Basicly, they still have limited contact with the outside, but in the<BR>&gt;&gt; case of the Navy they are blasing the planet to bits,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Or simply punishing them for an infraction by cutting off all<BR>&gt;interstellar trade.&nbsp; Not all Navy Red Zones are bombing ranges.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; True, some are Longbow Stations as well.&nbsp; *weg*<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; in the case of the TAS they are warning people away,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That's an Amber Zone<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Yet, adventurers keep going into Amber Zones, don't they?&nbsp; So, the<BR>warning didn't work.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &amp; in the case of the Scouts they are mucking around with the local<BR>&gt;&gt; planets population.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Or keeping others from doing so.&nbsp; Or keeping a freelance explorer<BR>&gt;from tranporting an unexpectedly nasty xenomorph to a heavily<BR>&gt;populated planet in their abdomen.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; True again.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Has anyone thought how much power the TAS really has?&nbsp; I mean if they<BR>&gt;&gt; Red Zone a planet, then that planet loses a lot of off-world trade.<BR>&gt;&gt; And, as an official for the TAS can Red Zone a world, how corrupt can<BR>&gt;&gt; they be?&nbsp; Ie, "Give me 10 MCr, or I will Red Zone your planet."-type<BR>deal.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I can see a TAS official threatening to Amber-Zone a system (since<BR>&gt;they can't Red-Zone it)...that may have some bad effects on trade,<BR>&gt;such as raising minimum rates and lowering non-essential passenger<BR>&gt;travel.&nbsp; I'd expect the effects to be short-term as the Amber-Zone<BR>&gt;is discovered to be a bunch of hooey (since the vast majority of<BR>&gt;trade is local).&nbsp; The TAS official placing bogus Amber classifications<BR>&gt;should very soon be out of a job, as the hazards he warned of<BR>&gt;fail to appear.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I agree, but then again, if he is getting say 10 MCr/year from every<BR>world in a subsector, he only has to do it for one year to retire.<BR><BR>&gt;I can see, as an adventure seed, a TAS official threatening to<BR>&gt;Amber-Zone a system unless a certain danger is taken care of<BR>&gt;quickly.&nbsp; "Unusual problem that needs to be taken care of quickly"<BR>&gt;has "party of Traveller PC's" written all over it, of course.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Of course it does.&nbsp; *weg*<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 00:21:07 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR><BR>Can't help you there, but I'd love to see the Tigress when finished.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 02, 2000 11:58 PM<BR>Subject: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Can anyone on the list point me to FFS1 stats for the standard Imperial<BR>&gt; Heavy Fighter. Which I require for the TNE version of the Tigress class<BR>&gt; battleship I have just about finished.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Antony<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:20:43 +0200<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustov's<BR><BR>Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR>&gt; Hmmm IIRC the Carl Gustov was portable recoilless rifle of around 85mm, I do not know if was<BR>&gt; around during in the Nam during he 60's, but IDRC the name for the swedish SMG's of that<BR>&gt; era.<BR><BR>&lt;nitpick mode=on&gt;<BR>And it is spelled Carl Gustav.<BR>&lt;/nitpick&gt;<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:07:13 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>&gt; Just imagine the fun your players will have stowing 100,000 rolls of toilet<BR>&gt; paper!<BR>&gt; <BR>Reading a history of US Submarine operations in WWII, I ran across<BR>the story of a boat which ran low on that precious paper. They sent<BR>numerous messages detailing this lack, mentioning that they were<BR>forced to resort to use of other sorts of paper (disposable messages,<BR>if you will). When they returned to Pearl, they found a veritable <BR>mountain of that most valuable paper at dockside...<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3115<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tuesday, October 3 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3116<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>TNE Heresy?<BR>Re: Carl Gustov's<BR>RE: Red Zones (was Re: Trav-Trek crossover)<BR>IP v6 and similar number systems...<BR>Essential Supplies(was Re: Classes and Names)<BR>re: Red Zones<BR>RE: Jump Speed<BR>Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR>Re: Carl Gustav<BR>re: Plea for font help!<BR>RE: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>Re: Jump Speed<BR>Re: Carl Gustav<BR>Re: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR>New deckplan drawing aid<BR>Trav-Trek Crossover<BR>Re:&nbsp; Red Zones <BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Carl Gustav<BR>Relativity<BR>Travellerguns website<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 09:01:13 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: TNE Heresy?<BR><BR>Here's something of an oddball question, not really gearhead, I'm afraid.<BR><BR>I recently got hold of a TNE rulebook, and their UPP in there had eight <BR>stats (IIRC, "Strength Dexterity Endurance Education Intelligence Charisma <BR>&lt;dash&gt; Psionic strength &lt;dash&gt; social standing")<BR><BR>This seemed to me like a pretty good notation, getting the most significant <BR>stats into a single UPP.&nbsp; What do people think of this?&nbsp; Was it a good <BR>idea, bad idea, heresy of the highest order?<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:33:41 +0300<BR>From: Antti Lahtinen &lt;lahtinen@ee.tut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustov's<BR><BR>Sinbad Sam wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Hmmm IIRC the Carl Gustov was portable recoilless rifle of around<BR>&gt; 85mm, I do not know if was around during in the Nam during he 60's,<BR>&gt; but IDRC the name for the swedish SMG's of that era.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; IIRC, the "Carl Gustav" company (which manufactured the 84 mm M2<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; rocket launchers and M45 SMGs among other things) merged with<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Bofors in 1990's, and the company is now known as "Bofors Carl-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Gustaf AB". The Carl Gustav rifle factory has been manufacturing<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; firearms since the 1700s, and they have several products.<BR>- --<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Antti Lahtinen&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; lahtinen@ee.tut.fi<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Researcher, MSc (Eng)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.ee.tut.fi/~lahtinen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:42:58 +0100 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Red Zones (was Re: Trav-Trek crossover)<BR><BR>Walt Smith wrote:<BR>&gt; I believe that TAS only designates Amber Zone (dangerous to<BR>&gt; travel in) classifications.&nbsp; Red Zone (forbidden under penalty<BR>&gt; of Imperial Law) classifications are entirely the responsibility<BR>&gt; of the Imperial government, usually through the Navy and the<BR>&gt; Scouts.<BR><BR>My understanding&nbsp; is&nbsp; that&nbsp; the&nbsp; Imperial&nbsp; Navy,&nbsp; the&nbsp; IISS,&nbsp; and<BR>(occasionally) senior nobles can "Interdict" worlds within the 3I<BR>borders.&nbsp; Outside the 3I other worlds may be prohibited (such&nbsp; as<BR>some Zhodani worlds that are&nbsp; militarily&nbsp; sensitive,&nbsp; independant<BR>worlds that are xenophobic, and others).&nbsp; *All*&nbsp; these&nbsp; different<BR>types are lumped together by TAS&nbsp; as&nbsp; "Red&nbsp; Zones"&nbsp; for&nbsp; easy&nbsp; of<BR>reporting and understanding.<BR><BR>In other words:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1) "Red Zone" is a TAS term, and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2) "Interdicted" worlds are a subset of "Red Zones"<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:18:32 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: IP v6 and similar number systems...<BR><BR>&lt;Leonard Erikson&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ?#? #?#<BR><BR>Where ? is a letter, and # is a digit.&nbsp; Not only can't you swap<BR>adjacent characters without it being glaringly obvious, you can't swap<BR>the groups either. They also avoid using confusing characters<BR>(0O,1l,MN, etc). That limits the range a bit but not all that badly.<BR>&lt;/LE&gt;<BR><BR>This reminds me of the new IP addressing system they're thinking of<BR>implementing.&nbsp; It's 128-bit instead of 32, and uses batches of 4 hex<BR>numbers.&nbsp; So you get IP addresses like this:<BR><BR>F75A:A978:78D4...<BR><BR>Remind you of anything? :-)&nbsp;&nbsp; I look forward to the day when I can have an<BR>IP address the same as my favorite UPP, UWP, etc...<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 01:34:10 +1000<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Essential Supplies(was Re: Classes and Names)<BR><BR>Michael Houghton wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Howdy!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Just imagine the fun your players will have stowing 100,000 rolls of toilet<BR>&gt; &gt; paper!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; Reading a history of US Submarine operations in WWII, I ran across<BR>&gt; the story of a boat which ran low on that precious paper. They sent<BR>&gt; numerous messages detailing this lack, mentioning that they were<BR>&gt; forced to resort to use of other sorts of paper (disposable messages,<BR>&gt; if you will). When they returned to Pearl, they found a veritable<BR>&gt; mountain of that most valuable paper at dockside...<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Then there was the story from the same war of a Submarine tender somewhere in the<BR>Pacific theatre that came under attack but was hit only in one<BR>compartment...which burned for a while destroying the contents...you guessed<BR>it...the entire toilet paper supply for the submarine squadron it was about to<BR>resupply....<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:37:14 -0400<BR>From: "Walt Smith" &lt;smithw@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Red Zones<BR><BR>Legate Legion wrote:<BR>&gt; IIRC, &amp; I may not, but YMMV, TAS has the right to designate a system as<BR>&gt; a Red Zone if need be.<BR><BR>As a travel service, TAS **reports** Red Zone designations.&nbsp; TAS isn't<BR>an arm of the government and has no law-enforcement capability, how<BR>do you expect TAS to prosecute people who violate a Red Zone?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; in the case of the TAS they are warning people away,<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; That's an Amber Zone<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yet, adventurers keep going into Amber Zones, don't they?&nbsp; So, the<BR>&gt; warning didn't work.<BR><BR>Amber Zone doesn't mean, "don't go there".&nbsp; It means, "this system is<BR>dangerous to travel in, don't go there without taking proper <BR>precautions".&nbsp; Travellers unable to take these precautions might decide<BR>not to go to the system, but if they had to they might still risk<BR>it.&nbsp; Red Zones, on the other hand, are usually patrolled by ships<BR>or armed satellites, and there are nasty legal penalties for <BR>trespassing.<BR><BR>That's the important difference.&nbsp; Amber = going there is dangerous,<BR>Red = going there is illegal.<BR><BR>[On corrupt TAS officials threatening to Amber Zone worlds]<BR>&gt; I agree, but then again, if he is getting say 10 MCr/year from every<BR>world in a subsector, he only has to do it for one year to retire.<BR><BR>I think that word of his creating bogus Amber Zones would spread<BR>as fast as the Amber Zone declarations.&nbsp; Also, recall that this<BR>official *isn't* a government representative, so he's somewhat<BR>out of his league when threatening world governments.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Walt Smith<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:11:58 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Jump Speed<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Thom Jones-Low<BR>&gt; Sent: 03 October 2000 04:43<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Jump Speed<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 18:06:47 PST<BR>&gt; &gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; &gt; But you *can* have FTL *and* relativity as long as you<BR>&gt; are willing to<BR>&gt; &gt; accept the consequences of time travel.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; So, as I said before, pick any two:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Relativity<BR>&gt; &gt; FTL<BR>&gt; &gt; Strict local causality<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; I'll take option 1 and half of 2 and half of 3. Yes I<BR>&gt; know physics does<BR>&gt; not work that way, but this is a jump drive handwave my<BR>&gt; brain force fed<BR>&gt; me last night.<BR>&gt;<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; Comments??<BR><BR>My own handwave ... there _are_ cases where FTL does not violate<BR>relativity. In fact, relativity _requires_ that a class of "particles"<BR>must exist that cannot travel _slower_ than the speed of light (this<BR>is real, BTW) and so by using the jump grid to pump enough energy into<BR>it, the ship is effectively "converted" to this sort of particle and<BR>snaps into jump space (physics AFAIK doesn't allow that really). That<BR>does it for me.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:42:24 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR><BR>Matt posted (quoting me):<BR>&gt;&gt;That's nearly 900 of the things.&nbsp; I even managed at last<BR>&gt;&gt;to produce a keyword index for it which makes things easily<BR>&gt;&gt; findable.<BR><BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au&nbsp; wrote:<BR>&gt;I have the same sort of thing, at home, as a hand-written paper copy I<BR>wrote out<BR>&gt;personally. DON'T ask how long it took, but really what I used to do was<BR>write<BR>&gt;an index to one issue at a time, as they were released.<BR><BR><BR>Given how long it took me to do what I did, I don't have to ask.&nbsp; I can<BR>imagine.&nbsp; You deserve a heap of credit for even attempting it.&nbsp; I've<BR>dreamed of doing this but have shied away in horror at the job it would be!<BR><BR>&gt;I am interested in what the Bibliography uses for its keywords? I<BR>classified<BR><BR><BR>OK, I should clarify straight away I did NOT keyword every article in all<BR>of the periodicals that are included in the bibliography (JTAS, Challenge,<BR>MT Journal, Travellers' Digest, Traveller Chronicle).&nbsp; What I did was index<BR>the *bibliography*.<BR><BR>So, there are some 843 entries representing every single article and each<BR>entry has the bibliographic details and then a description of what the<BR>article is about.&nbsp; If necessary there is a comment on the article as well<BR>(though not every entry has such a comment).<BR><BR>The index then contains significant keywords (or even concepts) from the<BR>article title, reference, or contents.&nbsp; Most articles get two or three<BR>keywords, some get a few more.&nbsp; I think there were two that didn't get any.<BR><BR>It is possible that an article might well have material in it that doesn't<BR>appear in the index but I'd like to think that the main contents of each<BR>article are covered so you ought to be able to track down most subjects<BR>unless they're obscure or only mentioned in passing.<BR><BR><BR>An example might help:<BR><BR><BR>///quote<BR>233&nbsp; TDX: The Ship's Locker<BR>[Anon.].&nbsp; JTAS 1, 1979, p.14<BR>1 page, small format.&nbsp; Illustration<BR>Description of a specialized explosive which functions perpendicularly to<BR>the force of gravity.<BR><BR>This idea is based on that of James Blish used in several of his stories.<BR>The article was reprinted in _BJTAS_, no.1, p.22<BR>///endquote<BR><BR><BR>You can see that it follows the format of _The Traveller Bibliography_<BR>pretty closely.<BR><BR>This article had the following keywords (IIRC):<BR>Blish, James<BR>explosives<BR>TDX<BR><BR><BR>There are 15 columns (5 pages x 3 columns) of fairly dense print on an A4<BR>(US Letterish) page making up the keyword index so I won't quote it here (a<BR>World index is separated out and makes a further three columns on another<BR>page), but a small section (without the reference numbers) looks like:<BR><BR>Broadsword class Mercenary Cruiser<BR>Broadsword class Colonial Cruiser<BR>_Broadsword: Adventure 7_<BR>Brownie points<BR>Bruia subsector, Hinterworlds<BR>Bugs and detectors<BR>Bunk space<BR>Bunkeria subsector, Core<BR>Bush Runners<BR>Bwaps<BR>C-PAWS<BR>Cabala subsector, Far Frontiers<BR>Cadets, military<BR><BR><BR>Does that help?<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;mine into things like "Amber Zone", "Ship Deck Plans", "Ref's Notes",<BR>&gt;"Contact!", and so forth. This means that many articles have more than one<BR>&gt;keyword.<BR><BR>Mine are a little more specific than that.&nbsp; I did consider using words such<BR>as the above as well but refrained because of reasons of space and also the<BR>fact that the bibliography is first divided into era (CT, MT, TNE, T4) and<BR>then divided into 'subject' which tends to bring those broader categories<BR>together anyway.<BR><BR>Certainly if you only half remember an article *one* of the indexes should<BR>allow you to track it down (author, title, keyword, world), even if you<BR>can't find it directly.&nbsp; I'd be interested to hear of anyone's experiences<BR>in how easy/difficult it is to use as I'm somewhat too intimately<BR>acquainted with it and can usually just turn to what I want.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;I've always been meaning to computerise it, but couldn't quite work out<BR>how I<BR>&gt;wanted the database to be arranged.<BR><BR><BR>Well, I nearly didn't compile the Keyword Index because I started wanting<BR>to do it really seriously and then started into compiling a Traveller<BR>Thesaurus to give me a controlled vocabulary and it all started getting too<BR>heavy for the 'simple' task.<BR><BR>I ought to thank Andy Lilly publicly for giving me the kick start I needed<BR>just to get on with the job in a way that would work for the job in hand.<BR><BR><BR>If you do have further questions I'll do my best to answer them, but of<BR>course you might find that many of them were answered by buying the book!<BR>;-)&nbsp; &nbsp; I understand BITS has despatched a pile to SJG so presumably they'll<BR>be available in Warehouse 23 sometime soon.<BR><BR>HTH<BR><BR>tc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2001 15:40:22 +0100<BR>From: CGS &lt;michael@carrickfergus.schoolzone.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustav<BR><BR>Nearly very weapon made in Sweden seems to be called Carl Gustav. I<BR>think it may be the name of the factory where the arms are made.<BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:00:27 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: re: Plea for font help!<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;I am trying to find a specific font to use for Caradoc LIC's logo.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I have created a page which contains three examples of the font. I would<BR>like to<BR>&gt;find a TrueType version, or at least know the name of the font, so I can<BR>ask for<BR>&gt;it at places like Adobe. ;-)<BR><BR><BR>Wow!&nbsp; The old Trigan Empire.&nbsp; What a blast from the past!&nbsp; I almost<BR>forgotten all about it.&nbsp; I wonder if you could buy the strip in book format<BR>somewhere?&nbsp; Be fun to see it again or maybe not if it hasn't aged well.<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;If you are a font whizz and have the time, could you please take a look at<BR>the<BR>&gt;page and see if you recognise the font:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Beowulf Down ==&gt; Tavonni Repair Bays ==&gt; A Plea for Help: Caradoc<BR>LIC's<BR>&gt;logo.<BR><BR><BR>I'm hardly a font whizz although I had a certain interest in the subject<BR>back in Amiga days, but rest assured I'll wade through a couple of sources<BR>tonight in the hope of stumbling across it.&nbsp; If it's that old though, I'm<BR>not hopeful.<BR><BR>tc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 08:58:15 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR><BR>On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;snip&gt; &gt; I've slept with a few players, men I didn't have a lot of<BR>&gt;&gt; respect for, because &gt; I was bored, had no time for a real<BR>&gt;&gt; relationship with someone who could commit, &gt; and I figured they had<BR>&gt;&gt; enough experience to make it worth my while.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Er, please don't say that sort of thing. I'm trying very hard to convince my<BR>&gt; wife that sex never enters into player's minds, and that it's perfectly<BR>&gt; alright that I spend Saturday nights dressed as a vampire, pretending to<BR>&gt; suck on the neck of these young gothettes who are half my age....&lt;grin&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>Uh... you don't get out much do ya hon?<BR><BR>I did not mean "player" as in "player of RPG's".&nbsp; I meant "player" as in<BR>"person who has a lot of casual sex/overlapping non-relationships".<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I can believe a man like Kirk getting laid a lot and that most of the<BR>&gt; &gt; women retained friendly feelings if he went about it right.&nbsp; I can't<BR>&gt; &gt; believe for a second that all those women were in love with HIM.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I think Gypsy Comet was implying some sort of special biological or psionic<BR>&gt; weapon was being unwittingly used by Kirk here.<BR>&gt; <BR>I was implying that as a female I DON'T THINK SO!&nbsp; I saw thru Kirk when I<BR>was 13.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; There's also the groupie effect of galactic heroism.&nbsp; Sometimes women will<BR>&gt; &gt; sleep with a guy who is considered Real Cool just because it would be Real<BR>&gt; &gt; Cool to have done that.&nbsp; I'd probably do several of my favorite musicians,<BR>&gt; &gt; even though I know that in the process I might find out enough about them<BR>&gt; &gt; to crush my idealization of them.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd support that, a female friend of mine keeps moaning that she didn't try<BR>&gt; and seduce Neil Gaiman when he was out here.<BR>&gt; <BR>LOL.&nbsp; I bet.<BR><BR>&gt; My wife, on the other hand, thinks he looked sleazy and was trying too hard<BR>&gt; to be cool, and has a bigger nose than I do.<BR>&gt; <BR>This may also be true.&nbsp; I went to see Toshi Kubota last night and I did<BR>not have the least desire to sleep with him.&nbsp; (We won't talk about Eikichi<BR>Yazawa, a man I would never want to sleep with on looks alone, but who has<BR>the most AMAZING charisma on stage...)<BR><BR>&gt; Of course, she is my wife, so when it comes to her opinon on men, I have to<BR>&gt; accept that she might not tell me the truth.&nbsp; :=)<BR>&gt; <BR>Ya think?<BR><BR>Depends on your agreements about what's OK and not OK to be honest about.<BR>It is impossible for anyone to retain any illusions about whether or not I<BR>would sleep with Yutaka Ozaki if he were still alive, on the other hand,<BR>he's not, so it isn't a threat...<BR><BR>Kiri, LOL<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:10:20 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Speed<BR><BR>Mark Preston writes:<BR><BR>&gt; My own handwave ... there _are_ cases where FTL does not violate<BR>&gt; relativity. In fact, relativity _requires_ that a class of "particles"<BR>&gt; must exist that cannot travel _slower_ than the speed of light (this<BR><BR>Actually, relativity requires that _if_ a certain class of particles exist,<BR>it can only travel faster than light.<BR><BR>FTL doesn't violate relativity per se.&nbsp; The problem is that FTL and relativity<BR>automatically combine to violate causality.<BR><BR>Most SF universes don't directly deal with these problems, but if you look at<BR>how FTL seems to work, most of them seem to assume that the concept of<BR>simultaneous events is meaningful, which in turn implies the existence of a<BR>preferred reference system and violates relativity.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 18:07:24 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustav<BR><BR>&gt; Nearly very weapon made in Sweden seems to be called Carl Gustav. I<BR>&gt; think it may be the name of the factory where the arms are made.<BR><BR>&lt;unlurk&gt;<BR>I think that is something of an overstatement. I'd say most weapons made in<BR>Sweden (though that's not all that many compared to the number of models and<BR>makes produced in, say, the U.S.) are _not_ called Carl Gustav. I only know<BR>of one; the Carl Gustav Recoilless. Most Swedish weapon systems would<BR>probably have a 'Bofors' name, that being our largest weapon manufacturer<BR>(AFAIK).<BR>&lt;/unlurk&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 09:17:41 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR><BR>Katharine Whitchurch writes:<BR><BR>&gt; (3) Accept that contact missiles are not military weapons for use against<BR>&gt; 'real' warships, but rather are a weapon system that are used by and on<BR>&gt; civilians and auxiliaries. Given the (IMO) silly detection ranges in G:T,<BR>&gt; (IMO) point defense lasers should be even more effective than they are<BR>&gt; under that ruleset, anyway.<BR><BR>Silly in what way?&nbsp; Too short?<BR><BR>When you have dedicated point defense systems and optimized systems, missile<BR>duels look a _lot_ different from how they are in GT.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 10:24:25 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: New deckplan drawing aid<BR><BR>Many people have mentioned Visio in the past as a great, although<BR>pricey, program to do deckplans in.<BR><BR>A new program has come on the moarket, which looks to be as good as<BR>Visio as well as cross-platform (mac and windows) and offers Viso<BR>conversions, as well.<BR><BR>http://www.conceptdraw.com/<BR><BR>$125 downloaded $199 full package...not cheap, but better than Visio.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:26:52 -0700 <BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Trav-Trek Crossover<BR><BR>&gt;From: "VonRammen" &lt;von_rammen@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Trav-Trek Crossover<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;Fred "We are Borg. Resistance is futile. Ask about our free catalog." Ramen<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Had I been drinking at the time, that would have been a keyoard<BR>kill....&nbsp; Thanks, that was a great start to the morning.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer:&nbsp; They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 10:38:23 -0700 <BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:&nbsp; Red Zones <BR><BR>&gt;From: "Walt Smith" &lt;smithw@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Red Zones (was Re: Trav-Trek crossover)<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;I can see a TAS official threatening to Amber-Zone a system (since<BR>&gt;they can't Red-Zone it)...that may have some bad effects on trade,<BR>&gt;such as raising minimum rates and lowering non-essential passenger<BR>&gt;travel.&nbsp; I'd expect the effects to be short-term as the Amber-Zone<BR>&gt;is discovered to be a bunch of hooey (since the vast majority of<BR>&gt;trade is local).&nbsp; The TAS official placing bogus Amber classifications<BR>&gt;should very soon be out of a job, as the hazards he warned of<BR>&gt;fail to appear.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I can see, as an adventure seed, a TAS official threatening to<BR>&gt;Amber-Zone a system unless a certain danger is taken care of<BR>&gt;quickly.&nbsp; "Unusual problem that needs to be taken care of quickly"<BR>&gt;has "party of Traveller PC's" written all over it, of course.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Walt Smith<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Or, in an extremely dark TU, a group of "ethically challenged" PCs<BR>could be hired to _cause_ the problems, and make them as splashy and public<BR>as possible.&nbsp; Of course, who's really hiring them and why?&nbsp; Are they being<BR>told the truth?&nbsp; Will they be extracted, or left to swing in the wind?&nbsp; Do<BR>the person(s) hiring them actually _want_ them to get caught and blab a the<BR>cover story, perhaps escaping punishment at the last moment to go on a<BR>bloody revenge trail, thus neatly killing two birds with one stone for the<BR>real (hidden) plotters?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- ----------<BR>Disclaimer - They jsut tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 11:02:21 -0700 <BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;"What I find most interesting here, Fleet Sergeant, is not only that a<BR>&gt;Marine Regiment is authorized a 'Chapel, Field, Virushi, with attendant',<BR>&gt;but that somehow someone would think that we needed 80 of them!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"I'll try to get them to chant a bit more quietly, sir."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Keyboard kill?&nbsp; That was almost a listmember kill... I laughed so<BR>hard, that by the time I could breathe again, I had keyboard-marks of my<BR>face.<BR><BR>&gt;"Do that, and have the duty company issued mops."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ??&nbsp; I assume that this is an inside joke for those who have read<BR>"101 Religions"...gotta git me one...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT (and breathing normally now)<BR>- --------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:10:11 +0200<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustav<BR><BR>CGS wrote:<BR>&gt; Nearly very weapon made in Sweden seems to be called Carl Gustav. I<BR>&gt; think it may be the name of the factory where the arms are made.<BR><BR>Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !<BR><BR>It's the name of our king, dammit!&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 14:25:16 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Relativity<BR><BR>A lot of people seem to know a lot about the theory of relativity. I don't <BR>know much about it, but I've seemed to have found a few HUGE holes that can <BR>blow the entire theory right out of the window. Please correct me if I'm <BR>wrong: these are only the observations of someone who doesn't know <BR>everything.<BR><BR>1. Time Dilation<BR><BR>This is covered first since it makes the least sense to me. Most physicists <BR>seem to believe that as you increase velocity, time goes slower for you.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Objection 1: What does time have to do with velocity? There seems to be <BR>no reasonable justification for this.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Objection 2: This isn't even what Einstein said! I once read part (sadly, <BR>not all) of a translation of his Special Relativity theory, and he stated <BR>that a stationary clock will run differently than a fast-moving clock, but <BR>he also said that when the fast-moving clock becomes stationary, both clocks <BR>will be the same!<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Objection 3: Time is an artificial measurement. It was a _novelist_ (H.G. <BR>Wells) that first came up with the idea of time as the fourth dimension!<BR><BR>2. Mass Increase<BR><BR>Scientists say that something going at the speed of light will have an <BR>infinite mass. This is reasonable, as velocity causes nearby matter to be <BR>pulled toward it.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Objection: So why isn't light, which moves at (surprise!) the speed of <BR>light, pulling the entire universe with it (which is the only way, if any, <BR>that something can have infinite mass).<BR><BR>3. Length Contraction<BR><BR>Scientists say that something going at the speed of light will of a length <BR>of zero.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Objection: If something has a length of zero, how can it still exist? <BR>Light obviously _does_.<BR><BR>Thanks for you time.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>- -----------------------------------------------<BR>"In the end, there can be only Traveller!"<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:27:05 -0700<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Travellerguns website<BR><BR>Greetings all,<BR><BR>I am looking for usefull links for the "Mercenary's Guide to Weapons"<BR>(http://www.travellerguns.com).&nbsp; Specifically links to RL weapons sites that<BR>can aid gearhead types design trav guns, or gun design tools for RPGs.<BR><BR>Also, please take a look at<BR>http://www.travellerguns.com/rifles/501_rifle.html and let me know if i need<BR>to add or change stats for any of the Traveller variants.&nbsp; I'll be adding<BR>common data to the description field.<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR>Tod<BR>- --<BR>Tod Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>- --<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://www.travellerguns.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3116<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tuesday, October 3 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3117<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Travellerguns website<BR>Re: Plea for font help!<BR>Re: Jump Speed<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR>RE: Black Globes<BR>Re: Relativity <BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity <BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity <BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>re: Classes and Names<BR>RE: Relativity <BR>Re: Black Globes<BR>Re: Relativity<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 15:58:25 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Travellerguns website<BR><BR>Tech Level should be a single entry at the top of the page.&nbsp; It's useful <BR>know what TL produced the weapon.<BR><BR>The GURPS:Trav entry could have the G:TL listing.<BR><BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>Exigis Domus Hillaria - http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:16:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Plea for font help!<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Help!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I am trying to find a specific font to use for Caradoc LIC's logo.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have created a page which contains three examples of the font. I would <BR>&gt; like to<BR>&gt; find a TrueType version, or at least know the name of the font, so I can ask <BR>&gt; for<BR>&gt; it at places like Adobe. ;-)<BR><BR>You'll get a good response (asnd maybe even a copy of the font if it's<BR>shareware or freeware) if you post a gif or jpeg of the sample to<BR>alt.binaries.fonts requesting identification and help in finding it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:08:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Speed<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; My own handwave ... there _are_ cases where FTL does not violate<BR>&gt; relativity. In fact, relativity _requires_ that a class of "particles"<BR>&gt; must exist that cannot travel _slower_ than the speed of light (this<BR>&gt; is real, BTW) <BR><BR>No. Relativity *allows* for te *possibility* of such particles. It in<BR>no way *requires* them. It also *does* require that they not interact<BR>with normal particles expect in some rather limited ways.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:18:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Howdy!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Just imagine the fun your players will have stowing 100,000 rolls of toilet<BR>&gt;&gt; paper!<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; Reading a history of US Submarine operations in WWII, I ran across<BR>&gt; the story of a boat which ran low on that precious paper. They sent<BR>&gt; numerous messages detailing this lack, mentioning that they were<BR>&gt; forced to resort to use of other sorts of paper (disposable messages,<BR>&gt; if you will). When they returned to Pearl, they found a veritable <BR>&gt; mountain of that most valuable paper at dockside...<BR><BR>They even sent a requistion form with some attached as a sample. And<BR>got it back with a note "cannot identify attached material".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 12:20:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Trav-Trek crossover (a bit long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Tue, 3 Oct 2000, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote :<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I can believe a man like Kirk getting laid a lot and that most of the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; women retained friendly feelings if he went about it right.&nbsp; I can't<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; believe for a second that all those women were in love with HIM.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; I think Gypsy Comet was implying some sort of special biological or psionic<BR>&gt;&gt; weapon was being unwittingly used by Kirk here.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; I was implying that as a female I DON'T THINK SO!&nbsp; I saw thru Kirk when I<BR>&gt; was 13.<BR><BR>The problem is that far too many *men* still haven't. <BR><BR>You didn't think they had him with all those women to attract the<BR>*female* viewers did you? :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 17:16:46 ADT<BR>From: "D Allain" &lt;dr_polo@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Black Globes<BR><BR>&lt;Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:36:59 PST<BR>&lt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&lt;Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>&lt;the amount of energy absorbed is the amount the weapons (or whatever)<BR>&lt;firing at you put out. The amount you can hold depends on how many<BR>&lt;capacitors you have installed. They have a fixed storage capacity per<BR>&lt;capacitor.<BR><BR>&lt;So the crucial factor is the capacitors, not what factor of screen &lt;you<BR>&lt;have installed.Sort of like how long you can run an engine depends on<BR>&lt;how big the gas tank is, not just on how big the engine is.<BR><BR><BR>Thank you for the information, Shadow.&nbsp; However, I still have some <BR>questions.&nbsp; How do I figure out the capacity of the capacitators? I dont <BR>believe that its included in the MT referees handbook?&nbsp; Im just thinking <BR>that if I design any starships and want to include a Black Globe, I dont <BR>seem to have any stats on capacitators.&nbsp; Also, what does factor x mean <BR>(factor 1, 2 3, )? What does it affect?&nbsp; How is a factor 3 better than a <BR>factor 1??<BR>I truly appreciate your input in this.<BR><BR>&lt;Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 12:56:29 +1000<BR>&lt;From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>&lt;Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>&lt;Boy, glad you aren't in my game... sounds like you are seeking out of &lt;game<BR>&lt;information?&nbsp; Hmmmn?&nbsp; Wouldn't your GM tell you if he wanted you to &lt;know? <BR>;)<BR><BR>&lt;n -- The Roc<BR><BR><BR>BTW:&nbsp; Roc, I work closely with the referee when it comes to rules. We both <BR>read up and try to understand them. By posting these messages, I am not <BR>going behind his back. I do have his blessing; he does not know either and <BR>is trying to figure it out. Im simply inquiring how the game mechanics and <BR>MT rules handles such things as combat with a black globe. Of course, the <BR>ref has the option of not following the rules and implementing his own.&nbsp; We <BR>were just wondering how it is, by the book.&nbsp; Thank you for your concern...<BR><BR>DeniS<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:49:56 -0500<BR>From: adouglas@optonline.net<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity <BR><BR>I'm no physicist either. However, I've found it much easier to consider<BR>relativity from a point of view of cause and effect. This appears to be how<BR>Einstein approached the problem... the difficulty most of us have is that we<BR>start with preconceived, common-sense (i.e. Newtonian) notions of how the<BR>universe works... that time and space are absolute and independent of<BR>velocity, as you posit. Don't get hung up on bizarre outcomes... go through<BR>the thought process and you'll see that it MUST be right.<BR><BR>Einstein started with the premise that the speed of light must be a<BR>constant, regardless of the frame of reference of the observer. Everything<BR>else is based on that; there is no ABSOLUTE frame of reference. This<BR>premise, by the way, is based on the results of experiments to determine the<BR>nature of the "ether", that supposed medium through which light waves were<BR>presumably propagated. The experiments showed that the ether does not exist.<BR><BR>I could go on, but I won't waste bandwidth here. There are several good<BR>explanations in textbooks and on the Web.<BR><BR>The fact that several of Einstein's predictions have been proven by<BR>experiment and observation shows that our common-sense, Newtonian notions do<BR>not reflect reality.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 22:50:28 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>I'll address the parts I think I know something about.<BR><BR>[...]<BR><BR>&gt; 1. Time Dilation<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is covered first since it makes the least sense to me. Most<BR>physicists<BR>&gt; seem to believe that as you increase velocity, time goes slower for you.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection 1: What does time have to do with velocity? There seems to be<BR>&gt; no reasonable justification for this.<BR><BR>Oh, there is justification. But can't recall any of the relevant equations<BR>offhand, and I won't try to explain without seeing the maths behind it.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection 2: This isn't even what Einstein said! I once read part<BR>(sadly,<BR>&gt; not all) of a translation of his Special Relativity theory, and he stated<BR>&gt; that a stationary clock will run differently than a fast-moving clock, but<BR>&gt; he also said that when the fast-moving clock becomes stationary, both<BR>clocks<BR>&gt; will be the same!<BR><BR>What you read was probably something to the effect of 'when the moving clock<BR>becomes stationary it will run at the same rate as the clock that has been<BR>at rest all the time'. That, at least, is the way special relativity works.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection 3: Time is an artificial measurement. It was a _novelist_<BR>(H.G.<BR>&gt; Wells) that first came up with the idea of time as the fourth dimension!<BR><BR>I don't believe that Wells' idea is accepted science. It might be used as a<BR>way to visualize time, though.<BR><BR>&gt; 2. Mass Increase<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Scientists say that something going at the speed of light will have an<BR>&gt; infinite mass. This is reasonable, as velocity causes nearby matter to be<BR>&gt; pulled toward it.<BR><BR>Velocity does not cause nearby matter to be pulled towards a fast-moving<BR>object.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection: So why isn't light, which moves at (surprise!) the speed of<BR>&gt; light, pulling the entire universe with it (which is the only way, if any,<BR>&gt; that something can have infinite mass).<BR><BR>...so this becomes a non-issue.<BR><BR>&gt; 3. Length Contraction<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Scientists say that something going at the speed of light will of a length<BR>&gt; of zero.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection: If something has a length of zero, how can it still exist?<BR>&gt; Light obviously _does_.<BR><BR>That is sort-of true. To an outside observer, a fast-moving object will seem<BR>to be contracted in the direction it it moving in. The object itself,<BR>however, does not notice itself being contracted. Instead, it percieves the<BR>surroundings contracted it the direction it is moving.<BR><BR>&gt; Thanks for you time.<BR><BR>Hmmm. My answer was even less complete than I thought I could make it. My<BR>excuse is that I just moved, and I still haven't unpacked all my books<BR>(amongst them several that describe general an special relativity).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 23:03:16 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt; A lot of people seem to know a lot about the theory of relativity. I don't<BR>&gt; know much about it, but I've seemed to have found a few HUGE holes that<BR>can<BR>&gt; blow the entire theory right out of the window. Please correct me if I'm<BR>&gt; wrong: these are only the observations of someone who doesn't know<BR>&gt; everything.<BR><BR>also, take a look at this:<BR><BR>http://www3.sympatico.ca/wbabin/paper/webdoc1.htm<BR><BR>Not the best description I've seen, but it's the first decent one I could<BR>find right away ;-)<BR><BR>A complete translation of the theory of relativity (both special and<BR>general) can be found at<BR><BR>http://www.bartleby.com/173/<BR><BR>I don't have the patience to read it through, though. The website seems to<BR>be on a slooow connection.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:08:38 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 14:25:16 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A lot of people seem to know a lot about the theory of relativity. I<BR>&gt; don't know much about it, but I've seemed to have found a few HUGE holes<BR>&gt; that can blow the entire theory right out of the window. Please correct<BR>&gt; me if I'm wrong: these are only the observations of someone who doesn't<BR>&gt; know everything. <BR><BR>You're not the first person to suffer gut-level rebellion against the<BR>weirder predictions of SR.&nbsp; If it helps at all, many many very smart<BR>people have both worked out all the implications and tested its<BR>predictions, and it seems about as solid as a scientific principle can<BR>get.&nbsp; Being absurdly counterintuitive doesn't stop it from being true. :)<BR><BR>&gt; 1. Time Dilation<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is covered first since it makes the least sense to me. Most physicists <BR>&gt; seem to believe that as you increase velocity, time goes slower for you.<BR><BR>Or rather, that an external observer, watching a clock aboard your ship as<BR>you passed at high speed, would observe time moving slower for you.&nbsp; You<BR>would 'feel' time at its normal rate (while clocks you passed looked like<BR>they were slow, of course).<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection 1: What does time have to do with velocity? There seems to<BR>&gt; be no reasonable justification for this. <BR><BR>That's why they call it space-time these days, a four-dimensional system<BR>in which your motion is in three spatial dimensions and time, inextricably<BR>linked.&nbsp; Since velocity is just distance over time, and distance and time<BR>are part of the same coordinate system, they're impossible to separate.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection 2: This isn't even what Einstein said! I once read part (sadly, <BR>&gt; not all) of a translation of his Special Relativity theory, and he stated <BR>&gt; that a stationary clock will run differently than a fast-moving clock, but <BR>&gt; he also said that when the fast-moving clock becomes stationary, both clocks <BR>&gt; will be the same!<BR><BR>Not true.&nbsp; In order to explain why requires general relativity, since SR<BR>spplies only to non-accelerated (inertial) systems, and starting and<BR>stopping require acceleration.&nbsp; Suffice it to say that the accelerated<BR>clock will experience less elapsed time.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection 3: Time is an artificial measurement. It was a _novelist_<BR>&gt; (H.G. Wells) that first came up with the idea of time as the fourth<BR>&gt; dimension! <BR><BR>Yeah, well, he was a clever guy. :)&nbsp; That's how the universe seems to<BR>work.&nbsp; Note that e.g. particle accelerator experiments would fail horribly<BR>if the predictions made by S and GR about time and mass dilation weren't<BR>exactly accurate out to many sig figs.<BR><BR>&gt; 2. Mass Increase<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Scientists say that something going at the speed of light will have an <BR>&gt; infinite mass. This is reasonable, as velocity causes nearby matter to be <BR>&gt; pulled toward it.<BR><BR>Not the case if you're thinking in terms of a wake vortex kind of thing.<BR>It really is the mass that increases.<BR><BR>It may help (if you have any electrical-theory background) to consider one<BR>of the observed effects that led up to SR.&nbsp; Create a static electric<BR>charge (like on a Van de Graf generator) and measure the magnetic field<BR>near it; you won't find any.&nbsp; Now move your field detector briskly through<BR>the same point in space; you'll register a field *in the same place*.<BR>Which is true?&nbsp; Zero field, or nonzero field?&nbsp; Answer:&nbsp; It depends on the<BR>motion of the observer.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection: So why isn't light, which moves at (surprise!) the speed of <BR>&gt; light, pulling the entire universe with it (which is the only way, if any, <BR>&gt; that something can have infinite mass).<BR><BR>Because photons have no rest mass.<BR><BR>&gt; 3. Length Contraction<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Scientists say that something going at the speed of light will of a length <BR>&gt; of zero.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection: If something has a length of zero, how can it still exist? <BR>&gt; Light obviously _does_.<BR><BR>Again, light isn't an 'object' per se.&nbsp; But interestingly, from its own<BR>'point of view' (if we may stretch that term a bit), light doesn't exist.<BR>Travelling at c, a photon experiences no elapsed time between emission and<BR>absorption, even if these occur billions of years apart from our point of<BR>view.&nbsp; The photon experiences its entire path as a single instant and zero<BR>distance.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:10:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity <BR><BR>Personally, I sense a Troll.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:17:48 -0700<BR>From: "Thing" &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson said,<BR><BR>&gt; You missed the point. All that is required to cause problems is for<BR><BR>&gt; info from point A to arrive at point B before light from Point A can.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; It's absolutely *guaranteed* that in at least one frame of reference,<BR><BR><BR>&gt; the info will arrive at B before it left A. Which means you have time<BR><BR>&gt; travel. Complete with potential for paradoxes.<BR><BR>I still don't see that. The ship/information doesn't travel backwards in<BR>time. By the nature of jump travell it arrive 1 week after it left. It<BR>does arrive faster than light could make the same journey staying in<BR>normal space. I suppose you could jump out a parsec out from a world and<BR>erect a colossal space billboard displaying the lotto numbers from 3.26<BR>years in the past. If you had instructed an accomplice 3.26+ years in<BR>the past to focus his extremely powerful telescope at your bulletin<BR>board you could get the message back in time.<BR><BR>&gt; It's a matter of the way space and time are *gemoetrically* related.<BR><BR>I understand that, I just have a problem with it. Just like I have a<BR>mental problem with photonic pressure for light sails and photons having<BR>no mass.<BR><BR>G.D.D.<BR>Thing under the stairs,<BR>Minion of Shechemist &amp; GothBunny,<BR>Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>===========================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 17:20:41 -0500<BR>From: adouglas@optonline.net<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity <BR><BR>Here's a link to a FAQ:<BR><BR>http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/relativity.html<BR><BR>Consider this: Assume the speed of light is a constant. Further assume that<BR>the laws of physics apply equally everywhere, whether or not the frame of<BR>reference is moving. Say you're in a spaceship travelling at .9c. You're<BR>bouncing a tennis ball on the floor. From your point of view, the ball is<BR>bouncing up and down in a straight line, about a meter each way, in one<BR>second.<BR><BR>But from the point of view of a person sitting on an asteroid you happen to<BR>be passing, the ball travels not two meters, but a bit less than 186000<BR>miles. Who's right? Obviously, both observers are.<BR><BR>And, since it takes time for the light that records the ball leaving your<BR>hand, falling to the floor, bouncing and returning to your hand to cover the<BR>considerable distance between the outside observer and the ship, it seems to<BR>take a longer than a second for the entire thing to take place from that<BR>person's point of view. i.e., time slows down when seen from outside.<BR><BR>See the paradox? Either the speed of light must vary, or time and space are<BR>not absolute.<BR><BR>And don't forget that there's no way to tell if the asteroid is moving<BR>too... or the whole universe. There can't be any absolute frame of<BR>reference. <BR><BR>Regarding your observations about mass going infinite, remember that photons<BR>have no mass. Nor to they have dimension in the conventional sense.<BR>"Wavelength" is really just a rate of oscillation.<BR><BR>Remember, questions about what happens AT THE SPEED OF LIGHT have as much<BR>meaning as asking what your respiration rate is when you're dead.<BR><BR>What gets me about the common thought experiment above is that I can't<BR>figure out why it doesn't work both ways. How can you tell if the ship is<BR>moving instead of the asteroid? Shouldn't time on the asteroid slow down for<BR>an observer on the ship?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 17:26:43 -0400<BR>From: Ethan Henry &lt;egh@klg.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The "correct" situation is that relativity doesn't allow for absolute<BR>&gt; or preferred frames of reference.<BR><BR>Which I've kept meaning to bring up...<BR><BR>"1 week" for jump is one week in what frame of reference?<BR>If you're going at .9c, does the jump take longer to observers going<BR>slower? It's the fixed one week jump time that violates relativity<BR>more than anything else, unless you attach it to some local frame<BR>of reference, which isn't really done anywhere (though I do understand <BR>that the idea for 'Book -1: Intro To Relativity'was indeed floated <BR>about at GDW for a while...)<BR><BR>Ethan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 13:54:43 -0700<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR><BR>&gt;(3) Accept that contact missiles are not military weapons for use against<BR>&gt;'real' warships, but rather are a weapon system that are used by and on<BR>&gt;civilians and auxiliaries. Given the (IMO) silly detection ranges in G:T,<BR>&gt;(IMO) point defense lasers should be even more effective than they are under<BR>&gt;that ruleset, anyway.<BR><BR><BR>I large battles, missiles will be launched in salvos.&nbsp; Then things<BR>tend to be binary.&nbsp; If you can group enough missles together overwhelm<BR>point defenses you are almost guaranteed a kill.&nbsp; If you can't then<BR>they tend to be useless.&nbsp; In the end it comes down to how much<BR>do you spend on this game vs other needs.<BR><BR>(Of course having a Tigress lurk outside of sensor range (with<BR>fighters providing sensor data) and sneak in missle salvos that<BR>aren't detected until the last moment is even better).<BR><BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 14:50:28 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Damn! Didn't even notice we were on a Bridge! It _is_ a nice bridge,<BR>though...wanna buy it?<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Personally, I sense a Troll.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 23:00:04 +0100<BR>From: "Peter Scarrott" &lt;peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>"MJ Dougherty" &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt; said<BR>&gt;M60 seems to be a common designation, too. For widely differing things. I<BR>&gt;wonder of the Imperial Ministry of Standards has fixed this one, or do the<BR>&gt;Imperial Forces order a crate of M292A3s from a planetary supplier and get<BR>&gt;50,000 biscuits instead of antitank weapons.... or vice versa?<BR>&gt;MJD<BR><BR>Hey considering the general ineptness of most supply situations it wouldn't<BR>matter what you called them they would still deliver the wrong stuff to the<BR>right people and the right stuff to the enemy.<BR><BR>Peter (Who apologises insincerely to the Logistics Corps)<BR>http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk (Trav &amp; AD&amp;D)<BR>peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk<BR><BR>IMTU: tc+ tm tn++ t4- ru+ !3i+ c+ jt- au- ls ta- hi++ ith++ va+ as- so&nbsp; zh+<BR>vi-<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And life is harsh and rarely fair.<BR><BR>Does history record ANY case in which the majority was right?<BR>Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love (By Robert.Heinlan)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:54:59 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity <BR><BR>Quite likely, still, one of the reasons I am on this list is because I<BR>can learn a lot of real world science from many knowledgeable material.<BR>If a creationist wants to ask a few questions which may end up providing<BR>me with better explanations of relativity, thermodynamics, and quantum<BR>physics, then I am happy to learn. :)<BR><BR>I have also noted that respondents on the list have replied to these<BR>sorts of questions with respect, maturity and factual knowledge, and for<BR>that I wish to lavish great praise on all list members. Congradulations<BR>to all of you, please keep it up.<BR><BR>And keep that physics, chemistry and biological knowledge comming, it<BR>puts the Science in Science Fiction Roleplaying!<BR><BR><BR>Paul Harris (Hard Sci-Fi buff)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Anthony Jackson [mailto:ajackson@molly.iii.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 8:10<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Relativity <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Personally, I sense a Troll.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:19:33 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:36:59 PST<BR>&gt; &lt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; &lt;Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;the amount of energy absorbed is the amount the weapons (or whatever)<BR>&gt; &lt;firing at you put out. The amount you can hold depends on how many<BR>&gt; &lt;capacitors you have installed. They have a fixed storage capacity per<BR>&gt; &lt;capacitor.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;So the crucial factor is the capacitors, not what factor of screen &lt;you<BR>&gt; &lt;have installed.Sort of like how long you can run an engine depends on<BR>&gt; &lt;how big the gas tank is, not just on how big the engine is.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thank you for the information, Shadow.&nbsp; However, I still have some<BR>&gt; questions.&nbsp; How do I figure out the capacity of the capacitators?<BR><BR>Capacitor, not capacitator. :-)<BR><BR>It's in the design rules somewhere. Basicly &lt;some number&gt; per dTon.<BR><BR>&gt; I don't<BR>&gt; believe that it's included in the MT referees handbook?&nbsp; I'm just thinking<BR>&gt; that if I design any starships and want to include a Black Globe, I don't<BR>&gt; seem to have any stats on capacitators.<BR><BR>If you aren't the Imperial Navy, you *can't* design ships with them.<BR>You can only incorporate "found" units into ships.<BR><BR>They are supposed to be something the IN has, and that lucky players<BR>*might* find. They're an Ancient artifact.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; Also, what does factor x mean<BR>&gt; (factor 1, 2 3, ...)? What does it affect?&nbsp; How is a factor 3 better than a<BR>&gt; factor 1??<BR><BR>I don't have those books handy, sorry.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 14:31:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; A lot of people seem to know a lot about the theory of relativity. I don't <BR>&gt; know much about it, but I've seemed to have found a few HUGE holes that can <BR>&gt; blow the entire theory right out of the window. Please correct me if I'm <BR>&gt; wrong: these are only the observations of someone who doesn't know <BR>&gt; everything.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1. Time Dilation<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This is covered first since it makes the least sense to me. Most physicists <BR>&gt; seem to believe that as you increase velocity, time goes slower for you.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection 1: What does time have to do with velocity? There seems to be <BR>&gt; no reasonable justification for this.<BR><BR>Sorry, but this isn't even subject to debate as the difference in time<BR>rate has been *measured*. This isn't theoretical, it's an *observation*.<BR>The theory has to explain the data.<BR><BR>It's a direct consequence of the fact that all observers measure c as<BR>having the exact same value.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection 2: This isn't even what Einstein said! I once read part (sadly, <BR>&gt; not all) of a translation of his Special Relativity theory, and he stated <BR>&gt; that a stationary clock will run differently than a fast-moving clock, but <BR>&gt; he also said that when the fast-moving clock becomes stationary, both clocks <BR>&gt; will be the same!<BR><BR>No. That they will will be running at the same rate. IU suggest that<BR>you go back and read carefully. You *can't* compare the rates of two<BR>clocks moving at constant velocity with respect to each other, expect<BR>by excahange signals. And when you do this, and correct for the travel<BR>time of the signals *both* observers will note that the *other*<BR>observer's clock is running slow.<BR><BR>if one *changes* velocity, so that they can both wind up at the same<BR>place *and* at rest with respect to each other, the one who changed<BR>velocity will be found to be have experienced less time than the other.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection 3: Time is an artificial measurement. It was a _novelist_ (H.G. <BR>&gt; Wells) that first came up with the idea of time as the fourth dimension!<BR><BR>Hardly. The idea is old. <BR><BR>Time is just as real as space. there are countless natural processes<BR>that proceed at a fixed rate (frequency of radiation emitted by varios<BR>atomic transitions, decay of radio-isotopes and unstable particles, etc).<BR><BR>Anyway, the observed fact that led to relativity was that the speed of<BR>light in a vacuum (c) is *constant*, regardless of velocity. The famous<BR>Michaelson-Morely experiment.<BR><BR>The constancy of the speed of light means that time *has* to run slower<BR>for a moving observer *and* that he'll be shorter in the direction of<BR>motion. (The Lorentz-Fitzgerald contraction)<BR><BR>*Both* are required, as otherwise his measurements *wouldn't* come out<BR>right.<BR><BR>The simplest way to explain this is that the wavelength of EM<BR>radiation, such as light and the frequency (both of which can be<BR>directly meassured, independently) are related by the speed of light.<BR>That is, frequency times wavelength = c.<BR><BR>So, if he measures the frequency and wavelength of one of the spectral<BR>lines of sodium (from a source at rest with respect to him), to get the<BR>same answers as when he was at rest, both the frequency and wavelength<BR>have to change in a specific way. The wavelength change requires<BR>distance in the direction he's moving to be shorter. The frequency<BR>changes require time to be moving slower.<BR><BR>There's another consequence of this as well. Perhaps you remember from<BR>math clasess that if you have two points on an X-Y plane, you calculate<BR>the difference between them like this:<BR><BR>D = sqrt( (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2 )<BR><BR>And likewise, the distance between points in space is:<BR><BR>D = sqrt( (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2 + (z1-z2)^2 )<BR><BR>Well, because of the way time and distance change when you are moving,<BR>space-time has to be put together a bit differently. The "interval"<BR>between two "events" (an event being a specific point in space *and a<BR>specific time) isn't:<BR><BR>I = sqrt( (x1-x2)^2 + (y1-y2)^2 + (z1-z2)^2 + (t1-t2)^2 )<BR><BR>which simplifies to:<BR><BR>I = sqrt( d^2 + t^2 )<BR><BR>with d being the distance n space between the two events (in light<BR>seconds) and t being the difference in time (in seconds).<BR><BR>Instead it's either:<BR><BR>I = sqrt( d^2 - t^2)<BR><BR>or <BR><BR>I = sqrt( t^2 - d^2 )<BR><BR>(I can never remember which!)<BR><BR>Obviously, this means that spacetime doesn't have the geometry of a<BR>flat surface, but of a curved on.<BR><BR>BTW, the simplest way of expressing relativity is to say that all<BR>observers much agree on the interval between two events.<BR><BR>&gt; 2. Mass Increase<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Scientists say that something going at the speed of light will have an <BR>&gt; infinite mass. This is reasonable, as velocity causes nearby matter to be <BR>&gt; pulled toward it.<BR><BR>No, velocity does no such thing.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection: So why isn't light, which moves at (surprise!) the speed of <BR>&gt; light, pulling the entire universe with it (which is the only way, if any, <BR>&gt; that something can have infinite mass).<BR><BR>It's not really a mass increase. It's an increase in *energy*.&nbsp; But<BR>relativity says that an object moving close to the speed of light<BR>*acts* like it's much more massive. It's harder to make it change<BR>course, and it hits harder when it hits something.<BR><BR>The mass (energy) a particle has when it is *at rest* is the "proper<BR>mass" (formerly "rest mass"). Since photons and other luxons (particles<BR>that always travel at the speed of light) can never *be* at rest, they<BR>have a proper mass of *zero*. <BR><BR>&gt; 3. Length Contraction<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Scientists say that something going at the speed of light will of a length <BR>&gt; of zero.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Objection: If something has a length of zero, how can it still exist? <BR>&gt; Light obviously _does_.<BR><BR>Nothing but luxons *can* reach the speed of light. And luxons can<BR>*only* travel at the speed of light. <BR><BR>While it's not "proper mathematics", it may help to consider it this<BR>way, for both length and mass effects.<BR><BR>The mass of an object is:<BR><BR>proper mass<BR>- -----------<BR>tau factor<BR><BR>At rest, the tau factor is 1, at the speed of light, it's zero. <BR><BR>So, at the speed of light, you get a mass of <BR><BR>proper mass<BR>- -----------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0<BR><BR>X/0 = "infinity".<BR><BR>But! <BR><BR>0/0 = anything<BR><BR>because: 0 = anything * 0<BR><BR>So a luxon can have *any* mass while travelling at lightspeed.<BR><BR>The argument about length is similar, except to multiply by the tau<BR>factor instead of divide.<BR><BR>tau = sqrt(1 - (v/c)^2 )<BR><BR>or<BR><BR>tau = cos(arcsin(v/c))<BR><BR>The second function is *much* simpler to do on any calculator that has<BR>trig functions.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3117<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (rly-yb02.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.2]) by air-yb04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:23:48 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com ([204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:23:12 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA48671;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:12:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:11:12 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA48313<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:11:12 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:11:12 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010032311.TAA48313@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3117<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tuesday, October 3 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3118<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR>Re: Black Globes<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>RE: Relativity/TML Community<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>RE: Relativity<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: TNE Heresy?<BR>Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR>Re: Jump Speed<BR>Re: Black Globes<BR>Re: Carl Gustav<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:41:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm no physicist either. However, I've found it much easier to consider<BR>&gt; relativity from a point of view of cause and effect. This appears to be how<BR>&gt; Einstein approached the problem... the difficulty most of us have is that we<BR>&gt; start with preconceived, common-sense (i.e. Newtonian) notions of how the<BR>&gt; universe works... that time and space are absolute and independent of<BR>&gt; velocity, as you posit. Don't get hung up on bizarre outcomes... go through<BR>&gt; the thought process and you'll see that it MUST be right.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Einstein started with the premise that the speed of light must be a<BR>&gt; constant, regardless of the frame of reference of the observer.<BR><BR>Actually, he started out with that as something established by<BR>experiment, and that needed to be explained.<BR><BR>&gt; Everything<BR>&gt; else is based on that; there is no ABSOLUTE frame of reference. This<BR>&gt; premise, by the way, is based on the results of experiments to determine the<BR>&gt; nature of the "ether", that supposed medium through which light waves were<BR>&gt; presumably propagated. The experiments showed that the ether does not exist.<BR><BR>Actually, they didn't. There *could* have been an ether. It'd just have<BR>to be motionless with respect to the surface of the earth. Which is<BR>*damn* unlikely. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:49:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The "correct" situation is that relativity doesn't allow for absolute<BR>&gt;&gt; or preferred frames of reference.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Which I've kept meaning to bring up...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "1 week" for jump is one week in what frame of reference?<BR>&gt; If you're going at .9c, does the jump take longer to observers going<BR>&gt; slower? It's the fixed one week jump time that violates relativity<BR>&gt; more than anything else, unless you attach it to some local frame<BR>&gt; of reference, which isn't really done anywhere (though I do understand <BR>&gt; that the idea for 'Book -1: Intro To Relativity'was indeed floated <BR>&gt; about at GDW for a while...)<BR><BR>It'd have to be that of the ship. Or rather, a frame in which the ship<BR>was stationary when it entered jump (and the ship should still be at<BR>rest in that frame when it exits jump). <BR><BR>That does the least violence to anything. BTW, keep in mind that the<BR>*distance* has to be figured in the same frame as the *time*.<BR><BR>So at a high enough speed, the ship will take twice as long to jump<BR>half as far!<BR><BR>Gee, I think we just solved the "why not accelerate to near c speeds<BR>and *then* jump in for the suicide run" bit. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:33:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I still don't see that. The ship/information doesn't travel backwards in<BR>&gt; time.<BR><BR>It dpends on how fast you are moving. If you are moving fast enough in<BR>the right direction, it *does* move backwards in time. <BR><BR>&gt; By the nature of jump travell it arrive 1 week after it left.<BR><BR>One week according to folks moving at more or less the same velocity. <BR><BR>If it's one week regardless of the velocity of the observer, you've got<BR>a "preferred frame" on your hands, which *also* breaks relativity.<BR><BR>Ditto if it only takes a week for folks moving about the speed the<BR>local stellar neighborhood is, and for folks at other velocities, it<BR>takes the same time in *our* frame. That makes us "special". <BR><BR>So it has to take a week for the folks on the ship, and any folks<BR>moving at the same velocity they were moving at when they jumped (which<BR>is also the velocity they exit jump with). <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; It's a matter of the way space and time are *gemoetrically* related.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I understand that, I just have a problem with it. Just like I have a<BR>&gt; mental problem with photonic pressure for light sails and photons having<BR>&gt; no mass.<BR><BR>They have no *rest* mass. They do have *momentum*. <BR><BR>It's no more "weird" than finding out that heavy objects and light ones<BR>fall at the same speed (which is also counter intuitive), instead of at<BR>different ones.<BR><BR>Your intution is based on *experience*, And you don't have any<BR>experience of near c conditions.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:44:46 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; What gets me about the common thought experiment above is that I can't<BR>&gt; figure out why it doesn't work both ways. How can you tell if the ship is<BR>&gt; moving instead of the asteroid? Shouldn't time on the asteroid slow down for<BR>&gt; an observer on the ship?<BR><BR>It *does*. But unless one of them accelerates (changes direction *or*<BR>speed) they'll never be able to compare their clocks directly. <BR><BR>If one of them *does* accerelate so as to meet the other, *he* will be<BR>found to be the one who had the slow clock.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:55:51 -0700<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;M60 seems to be a common designation, too. For widely differing things. I<BR>&gt; &gt;wonder of the Imperial Ministry of Standards has fixed this one, or do<BR>the<BR>&gt; &gt;Imperial Forces order a crate of M292A3s from a planetary supplier and<BR>get<BR>&gt; &gt;50,000 biscuits instead of antitank weapons.... or vice versa?<BR>&gt; &gt;MJD<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hey considering the general ineptness of most supply situations it<BR>wouldn't<BR>&gt; matter what you called them they would still deliver the wrong stuff to<BR>the<BR>&gt; right people and the right stuff to the enemy.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Fortunately, the enemy usually suffers from the same kinds of problems.<BR><BR>"Dammit, we ordered 25 cases GS36/A4 psi boost capsules.&nbsp; We got 15 cases of<BR>GS63-A4, laxatives, individual, constipation, for the use of"<BR><BR>"Actually, we got 25 cases.&nbsp; 10 were already issued to field units"<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:53:46 -0700<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR><BR>It's the Rampart RF-128 isn't it?&nbsp; OK, rhetorical question.&nbsp; Source:<BR><BR>"Brilliant Lances", Technical Booklet, p. 48<BR><BR>Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Can anyone on the list point me to FFS1 stats for the standard Imperial<BR>&gt; Heavy Fighter. Which I require for the TNE version of the Tigress class<BR>&gt; battleship I have just about finished.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:32:32 -0700<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Thank you for the information, Shadow.&nbsp; However, I still have some<BR>&gt; &gt; questions.&nbsp; How do I figure out the capacity of the capacitators?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Capacitor, not capacitator. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's in the design rules somewhere. Basicly &lt;some number&gt; per dTon.<BR><BR>Don't know about MT, but High Guard has details on them.&nbsp; I'll post numbers<BR>when I return to base camp.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:31:21 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; It'd have to be that of the ship. Or rather, a frame in which the ship<BR>&gt; was stationary when it entered jump (and the ship should still be at<BR>&gt; rest in that frame when it exits jump). <BR><BR>Well, only if relativity is true.&nbsp; Otherwise, you're probably safest using a<BR>fixed reference frame, probably based on the movement of the galaxy.&nbsp; It <BR>doesn't require that relativity be false for known phenomena, it just means<BR>that there are phenomena for which frame invariance is false, and thus<BR>relativity is not entirely accurate.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:34:45 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity/TML Community<BR><BR>I second the motion. The TML (along with the rest of the Traveller <BR>community) is a great association. The people are willing to listen and <BR>respond. Including Marc Miller. Never have I known TSR/Wizards to be this <BR>way.<BR><BR>Recently, a concern has been raised that the roleplaying community is not <BR>attracting enough new blood. This is mainly due to the older gamers scoffing <BR>at the younger players for their inexperience and "munchkin" tendencies <BR>(which even the most experienced buffs once had!).<BR><BR>This is not so with Traveller. I'm a newbie, and when I asked for help <BR>regarding merchant campaigns, I recieved several helpful responses. This is <BR>_very_ encouraging for both Traveller and roleplaying in general. Clearly, <BR>we're a kinder, more caring community!<BR><BR>As long as there's a Traveller, there'll be roleplaying!<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>"In the end, there can be only Traveller!"<BR>- -(even more relevant in regard to what I just said)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: "'traveller@lists.ient.com'" &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Relativity<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:54:59 +1100<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Quite likely, still, one of the reasons I am on this list is because I<BR>&gt;can learn a lot of real world science from many knowledgeable material.<BR>&gt;If a creationist wants to ask a few questions which may end up providing<BR>&gt;me with better explanations of relativity, thermodynamics, and quantum<BR>&gt;physics, then I am happy to learn. :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I have also noted that respondents on the list have replied to these<BR>&gt;sorts of questions with respect, maturity and factual knowledge, and for<BR>&gt;that I wish to lavish great praise on all list members. Congradulations<BR>&gt;to all of you, please keep it up.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And keep that physics, chemistry and biological knowledge comming, it<BR>&gt;puts the Science in Science Fiction Roleplaying!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Paul Harris (Hard Sci-Fi buff)<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:38:47 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's no more "weird" than finding out that heavy objects and light ones<BR>&gt; fall at the same speed (which is also counter intuitive), instead of at<BR>&gt; different ones.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Your intution is based on *experience*, And you don't have any<BR>&gt; experience of near c conditions.<BR><BR>For an idea of what life at near C might be like, go to:<BR><BR>http://www.anu.edu.au/Physics/Searle/<BR><BR>They have some mpegs and real media visualizations of what the world<BR>would look like if we lived in a regime where near C was a common<BR>experience.<BR><BR>Interesting stuff.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:48:08 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snips discussion of Special and General Relativity&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Not true.&nbsp; In order to explain why requires general relativity, since SR<BR>&gt; spplies only to non-accelerated (inertial) systems, and starting and<BR>&gt; stopping require acceleration.&nbsp; Suffice it to say that the accelerated<BR>&gt; clock will experience less elapsed time.<BR><BR>&lt;tongue-in-cheek&gt;<BR><BR>Ah!&nbsp; _Now_ I understand why men going through mid-life crises have a<BR>reputation for blowing unseemly sums of cash on sports cars.&nbsp; Just as<BR>dietary cravings are sometimes linked to nutritional deficiencies,<BR>middle-aged men sometimes have a "craving" for time dilation, which they<BR>attempt to satisfy via acceleration.<BR><BR>This also explains why fighter jocks have a reputation (among other<BR>members of the armed forces) for immaturity.&nbsp; Since they experience<BR>unusual acceleration on a routine basis, they _are_ less mature.<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; This also expalains the nearly adolescent level of risk taking<BR>displayed by many PCs, especially those who have served in the Imperial<BR>Navy or Marines.&nbsp; Serving aboard ships that often pull 6 gees<BR>acceleration in combat delays their maturation processes.<BR><BR>&lt;/tongue-in-cheek&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:49:19 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Leonard Erickson" &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Gee, I think we just solved the "why not accelerate to near c speeds<BR>&gt; and *then* jump in for the suicide run" bit.<BR><BR>One of the things I like about TNE (and which only really applies because of<BR>the reaction thrusters) is the accuracy of the astrogation task to plot the<BR>jump affects how much manoeuvring you have to do to adjust your vector to<BR>intercept the planet (or other mass) upon exiting jump.<BR><BR>Jump with too big a vector, and you may not have enough G-Hours of fuel to<BR>readjust your course...<BR><BR>As a result I tend to jump from a standing start... no residual vector to<BR>overcome. Also renders FTL time travel paradoxes moot.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:02:47 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>adouglas@optonline.net wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The fact that several of Einstein's predictions have been proven by<BR>&gt; experiment and observation shows that our common-sense, Newtonian notions do<BR>&gt; not reflect reality.<BR><BR>IMHO, Newtonian physics _do_ provide an adequate reflection of reality<BR>for common-sense-level environments.&nbsp; It's only when the environment<BR>shifts to unusual conditions (acceleration of objects in a vacuum, for<BR>instance) that the shortcomings become obvious.&nbsp; Indeed, I expect that,<BR>at some point, Einstein's theories will be considered as quaint as<BR>Newton's are currently.<BR><BR>As an analogy, the fact that an observatory's mirrors are far closer to<BR>optical perfection than my shaving mirror does not make my shaving<BR>mirror useless for its intended purpose (to let me see what I'm doing<BR>with those sharp blades with sufficient clarity to keep me from slicing<BR>and dicing my face).&nbsp; Neither mirror is perfect, yet both have their<BR>functions.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 20:13:01 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Ya, okay, but what does all this have to do with the Kessel Run being done<BR>in under 12 parsecs?&nbsp; &lt;g,d,r...&gt;<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:57:59 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity<BR><BR>The Kessel Run is an area of space where there is a jump one main<BR>between the Kessel System and the Lucrative System. The two systems<BR>produce goods that are in high demand on each other's worlds, so much<BR>profit can be made selling Kessel Goods at Lucrative and vice versa.<BR><BR>The problem is that if you follow the jump one main from Kessel to<BR>Lucrative, you have to make 30 Jump Ones (or travel around 30 parsecs)<BR>to do it. There are shorter journeys available for ships whith higher<BR>jump drives.&nbsp; The ideal route is the one that is two jump 6's, Kessel to<BR>Uninhabitied Rock to Lucrative (and back). This is how the Kessel run is<BR>done in twelve parsecs. <BR><BR>;)<BR><BR>Paul Harris<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Charles Collin [mailto:charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca]<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 11:13<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ya, okay, but what does all this have to do with the Kessel <BR>&gt; Run being done<BR>&gt; in under 12 parsecs?&nbsp; &lt;g,d,r...&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Charles C.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:26:55 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Doug wrote:<BR>&gt;"Fleet Sergeant, what happened?"<BR><BR>ROTFL! Doug, this little exchange has _got_ to be enshrined in the Silly Era...<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:15:46 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR><BR>No.&nbsp; The RF-128 is the fighter carried by the Azhanti High Lightning. <BR>The heavy fighter is a 50-ton job with a stateroom for the crew.<BR><BR>- --- Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; It's the Rampart RF-128 isn't it?&nbsp; OK, rhetorical question.&nbsp; Source:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Brilliant Lances", Technical Booklet, p. 48<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Can anyone on the list point me to FFS1 stats for the standard<BR>&gt; Imperial<BR>&gt; &gt; Heavy Fighter. Which I require for the TNE version of the Tigress<BR>&gt; class<BR>&gt; &gt; battleship I have just about finished.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Antony<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:30:31 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>The Roc said:<BR>&gt;&gt; I can just see some Imperial Navy supply petty officer receiving sewing<BR>&gt;&gt; needles when he was sure he ordered jump drive coils.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And do the US military do that reverse name/description thing?&nbsp; Like,<BR>&gt;"Razor, shaving, face thereof?" Or "Paint, Green, Olive...?" :^)<BR><BR>That's done to home in on the target from a broad to narrow catagory.<BR><BR>Forex, my understanding is that the Oz military borrowed the Library of Congress<BR>Subject Headings (LCSH) catagorisation system. they use a subset that they<BR>devised called "Deftest" (bad ASCII art follows ;-):<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; broader term (BT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>synonym &lt;---&gt; term (T) &lt;---&gt; related term (RT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; narrower term (NT)<BR><BR><BR>For example, for the term "bullet":<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (Munitions)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ammunition<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>Round &lt;------&gt; BULLET &lt;------&gt; Shell<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Jacketed,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle/pistol,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hollowpoint,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; .303 etc<BR><BR>Note that multiple relationships exist - "Ammunition" is also the broader term<BR>(BT) for "Shell", for example.<BR><BR>The main thing this is used for is to generate keywords for use when searching<BR>for a particular subject, and to catagorise systems.<BR><BR>BTW, I still haven't heard what keywords were used by that person who created a<BR>database of JTAS articles? &lt;slaps forehead&gt; Maybe _I_ should start using the<BR>LCSH system!!<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:44:30 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: TNE Heresy?<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Jonathan asked:<BR>&gt;I recently got hold of a TNE rulebook, and their UPP in there had eight<BR>&gt;stats<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This seemed to me like a pretty good notation, getting the most significant<BR>&gt;stats into a single UPP.&nbsp; What do people think of this?<BR><BR>It's a great idea. I've done this sort of thing ever since the original Aliens<BR>books added Psi, Charisma, and Caste (from the Zhos, Vargr, and Droyne,<BR>respectively).<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:48:17 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Timothy just answered my question:<BR>&gt;&gt;I am interested in what the Bibliography uses for its keywords? I<BR>&gt;&gt;classified<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;OK, I should clarify straight away I did NOT keyword every article in all<BR>&gt;of the periodicals that are included in the bibliography...<BR><BR>Sorry, Timothy, I just asked the question again, before reading all my mail.<BR>Thanks for your reply.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:59:17 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Speed<BR><BR>Rear Folks -<BR><BR>Anthony said:<BR>&gt;Most SF universes don't directly deal with these problems, but if you look at<BR>&gt;how FTL seems to work, most of them seem to assume that the concept of<BR>&gt;simultaneous events is meaningful, which in turn implies the existence of a<BR>&gt;preferred reference system and violates relativity.<BR><BR>Ah! Well, that's the answer then!<BR><BR>Since (ah, since some on the TML decided) jumpspace is an artificial<BR>construction of the Ancients (or maybe Primordials ;-), they created it in such<BR>a way as to make _it_ the preferred reference system. No wonder the Imperium<BR>can't crack J6! They are looking at N-space for references instead of looking at<BR>J-space and working from there! It all becomes clear now! Fnord, YMMV, "nothing<BR>to see here, these aren't the droids you're looking for, move along now"...<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:03:06 +1100 (EST)<BR>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= &lt;ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>At 3 Oct 2000 15:19:33 PST Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Also, what does factor x mean<BR>&gt; &gt; (factor 1, 2 3, ...)? What does it affect?&nbsp; How is a factor 3<BR>better than a<BR>&gt; &gt; factor 1??<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I don't have those books handy, sorry.<BR><BR>I don't have my books here either, but IIRC the factor represents the<BR>flicker rate of the globe in percent per second (ie, factor 2<BR>represents the globe flickering so it provides protection for 20% of<BR>each second. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong...<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Craig.<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>&lt;ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au&gt;&nbsp; &lt;craig_barnett@iname.com&gt;<BR>Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________________________________<BR>http://sport.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Australia &amp; NZ Sports<BR>- - Get the latest on the Olympics<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:49:21<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustav<BR><BR>At 08:10 PM 10/3/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>&gt;CGS wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Nearly very weapon made in Sweden seems to be called Carl Gustav. I<BR>&gt;&gt; think it may be the name of the factory where the arms are made.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's the name of our king, dammit!&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>Aren't all of you kings named that?&nbsp; :)<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3118<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3119</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wednesday, October 4 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3119<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Karl Gustav<BR>RE: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Karl Gustav<BR>Re: Black Globes<BR>RE: Tigress Class<BR>You know that you play too much Traveller if.....<BR>Re: Jump Speed<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>RE: Tigress Class<BR>RE: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Carl Gustav<BR>Re: Black Globes<BR>Re: You know that you play too much Traveller if.....<BR>RE: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Black Globes<BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Karl Gustav<BR>Re: Karl Gustav<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:51:22<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>At 12:26 PM 10/4/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Doug wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;"Fleet Sergeant, what happened?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;ROTFL! Doug, this little exchange has _got_ to be enshrined in the Silly<BR>Era...<BR><BR>Oh, wait until you read the header for Chapter 6....<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:56:05<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>At 11:02 AM 10/3/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Keyboard kill?&nbsp; That was almost a listmember kill... I laughed so<BR>&gt;hard, that by the time I could breathe again, I had keyboard-marks of my<BR>&gt;face.<BR><BR>I'd like to thank the Academy.<BR><BR>Seriously, I wrote that imagining my old battalion commander from the 3/7th<BR>Inf, and one of my First Sergeants.&nbsp; Things like that really happen, like<BR>the time I filed out a request for 100 boxes of chemlights and we got 100<BR>cases instead.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;"Do that, and have the duty company issued mops."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; ??&nbsp; I assume that this is an inside joke for those who have read<BR>&gt;"101 Religions"...gotta git me one...<BR><BR>The Virushi are a very large intelligent race that have been described as<BR>"K'kree in plate armor, only bigger."&nbsp; They are complete pacifists, and<BR>make excellent doctors.&nbsp; But I was imagining the effect of the sudden<BR>appearance of 80 large herbivores on a Marine starship's decks...<BR><BR>I sincerely hope that the Virush appear in Alien Races 4, since they are an<BR>all-time favorite of mine.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins<BR>Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 20:00:39<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>At 02:08 PM 10/3/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;The photon experiences its entire path as a single instant and zero<BR>&gt;distance.<BR><BR>I've had days at work like that.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 23:14:32 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Karl Gustav<BR><BR>&gt; Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; It's the name of our king, dammit!&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>I thought it was the name of all Swedish kings . . .&nbsp; :&nbsp; )<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 11:19:18 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR><BR>Tigress Class - Progress Report<BR>Have now reached the most difficult part of the Tigress class, its lack of<BR>surface area.<BR>The sphere is absolutely the wrong configuration for a major warship.<BR>The result, using FFS1, the Tigress is likely to lose its jump-4 capability<BR>and has lost its 6G maneuver drive.<BR><BR>It looks like the major limit on hull displacements will be determined by<BR>surface area. For example the Tigress with a modified sphere/box<BR>configuration has a surface area of 184,533.3334 square meters, a jump-4<BR>drive on this ship uses 116,666.6667 square meters, and a 3G maneuver drive<BR>75,000 square meters, whoops no hull area left!<BR><BR>Conclusion A FFS1 Tigress and I suspect an FFS2 version would be a Tigress<BR>in name only. Perhaps the reported performance was naval propaganda.<BR><BR>I can increase surface area slightly by increasing the proportion of the<BR>ship in the box at the rear of the sphere.<BR><BR>What do people think?<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 22:47:00 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Karl Gustav<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; It's the name of our king, dammit!&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I thought it was the name of all Swedish kings . . .&nbsp; :&nbsp; )<BR><BR>Can't be; after all, weren't the Swedes the ones who recruited<BR>Bernadotte for their throne?<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 03:35:32 -0400<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:19:33 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2000 23:36:59 PST<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;the amount of energy absorbed is the amount the weapons (or whatever)<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;firing at you put out. The amount you can hold depends on how many<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;capacitors you have installed. They have a fixed storage capacity per<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;capacitor.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;So the crucial factor is the capacitors, not what factor of screen &lt;you<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;have installed.Sort of like how long you can run an engine depends on<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;how big the gas tank is, not just on how big the engine is.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Thank you for the information, Shadow.&nbsp; However, I still have some<BR>&gt; &gt; questions.&nbsp; How do I figure out the capacity of the capacitators?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Capacitor, not capacitator. :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's in the design rules somewhere. Basicly &lt;some number&gt; per dTon.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; High Guard (Book 5) P31. 1 dton of capacitor holds 36 EP (9000 MW),<BR>cost MCr 4. The jump drive contains 0.5% * ship Mass * jump number of<BR>capacitors. <BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Also, what does factor x mean<BR>&gt; &gt; (factor 1, 2 3, ...)? What does it affect?&nbsp; How is a factor 3 better than a<BR>&gt; &gt; factor 1??<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I don't have those books handy, sorry.<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Factor controls flicker rate. With the Black Globe on, the ship can not<BR>use any sensors, weapons, maneuver drive or jump drive. They are blind,<BR>defenseless and drifting on their last course. A factor 1 globe can be<BR>switched on and off quickly so that is effectively on 10% of the time,<BR>and off 90%. A factor 2 is on 20%, off 80%. and so on. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; When fired upon the Black Globe acts as additional armor absorbing the<BR>effects of the weapons, each 10% of flicker acting as 2 levels of HG<BR>armor, and if the attack penetrates the other defenses, the Black Globe<BR>absorbs n% of the energy and gives a +2 DM on the damage rolls. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; This is from Book 5, it may have changed slightly for MT, but should<BR>give you some pointer for where to look. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:13:37 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Antony Farrell [mailto:Skaran@bigpond.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 14:19<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tigress Class - Progress Report<BR>&gt; Have now reached the most difficult part of the Tigress <BR>&gt; class, its lack of<BR>&gt; surface area.<BR>&gt; The sphere is absolutely the wrong configuration for a major warship.<BR>&gt; The result, using FFS1, the Tigress is likely to lose its <BR>&gt; jump-4 capability<BR>&gt; and has lost its 6G maneuver drive.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It looks like the major limit on hull displacements will be <BR>&gt; determined by<BR>&gt; surface area. For example the Tigress with a modified sphere/box<BR>&gt; configuration has a surface area of 184,533.3334 square <BR>&gt; meters, a jump-4<BR>&gt; drive on this ship uses 116,666.6667 square meters, and a 3G <BR>&gt; maneuver drive<BR>&gt; 75,000 square meters, whoops no hull area left!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Conclusion A FFS1 Tigress and I suspect an FFS2 version would <BR>&gt; be a Tigress<BR>&gt; in name only. Perhaps the reported performance was naval propaganda.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I can increase surface area slightly by increasing the <BR>&gt; proportion of the<BR>&gt; ship in the box at the rear of the sphere.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What do people think?<BR><BR><BR>Wing it....&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:44:49 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: You know that you play too much Traveller if.....<BR><BR>Last night on the weather, gusty wind conditions caused the issuing of a<BR>'Small Craft Warning'.<BR><BR>Naturally I didn't think of watercraft....<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:56:20 -0500<BR>From: Richard Persky &lt;richardp@mac.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Speed<BR><BR>On 10/3/00 13:59:17 +1100, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Since (ah, since some on the TML decided) jumpspace is an artificial<BR>&gt; construction of the Ancients (or maybe Primordials ;-), they created it in<BR>&gt; such a way as to make _it_ the preferred reference system.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Ancients/Primordials aside, I've been inclined to regard jumpspace as a<BR>privileged reference frame ever since I first considered Traveller and<BR>relativity together.&nbsp; Of course, I proceeded from there to ignore relativity<BR>completely, experimental verification and all...<BR><BR>&nbsp; Richard<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 21:14:17 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; It'd have to be that of the ship. Or rather, a frame in which the ship<BR>&gt;&gt; was stationary when it entered jump (and the ship should still be at<BR>&gt;&gt; rest in that frame when it exits jump). <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, only if relativity is true.&nbsp; Otherwise, you're probably safest using a<BR>&gt; fixed reference frame, probably based on the movement of the galaxy.&nbsp; It <BR>&gt; doesn't require that relativity be false for known phenomena, it just means<BR>&gt; that there are phenomena for which frame invariance is false, and thus<BR>&gt; relativity is not entirely accurate.<BR><BR>That also means that jump drive is only usable in *this* galaxy, or at<BR>most, the local cluster, since jump times would be *way* different for<BR>other galaxies. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 21:15:51 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Gee, I think we just solved the "why not accelerate to near c speeds<BR>&gt;&gt; and *then* jump in for the suicide run" bit.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; One of the things I like about TNE (and which only really applies because of<BR>&gt; the reaction thrusters) is the accuracy of the astrogation task to plot the<BR>&gt; jump affects how much manoeuvring you have to do to adjust your vector to<BR>&gt; intercept the planet (or other mass) upon exiting jump.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jump with too big a vector, and you may not have enough G-Hours of fuel to<BR>&gt; readjust your course...<BR><BR>I've always figured that you exited jump with the same velocity you<BR>entered with. That is, no matter *what* you measure your velocity<BR>relative to (earth, galactic core, some quasar) it'll be the same when<BR>you enter and exit jump.<BR><BR>&gt; As a result I tend to jump from a standing start... no residual vector to<BR>&gt; overcome. Also renders FTL time travel paradoxes moot.<BR><BR>There's no such thing as a "standing start". Velocity is *relative*. So<BR>while you may be at rest with respect to something, you are moving like<BR>a bat out of hell relative to something else.<BR><BR>Right now you are moving at around 40 km/sec with respect to the Sun<BR>for example. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:13:21 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Paul Harris [mailto:paul.harris@dytech.com.au]<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 16:14<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Antony Farrell [mailto:Skaran@bigpond.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 14:19<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Tigress Class - Progress Report<BR>&gt; &gt; Have now reached the most difficult part of the Tigress <BR>&gt; &gt; class, its lack of<BR>&gt; &gt; surface area.<BR>&gt; &gt; The sphere is absolutely the wrong configuration for a <BR>&gt; major warship.<BR>&gt; &gt; The result, using FFS1, the Tigress is likely to lose its <BR>&gt; &gt; jump-4 capability<BR>&gt; &gt; and has lost its 6G maneuver drive.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; It looks like the major limit on hull displacements will be <BR>&gt; &gt; determined by<BR>&gt; &gt; surface area. For example the Tigress with a modified sphere/box<BR>&gt; &gt; configuration has a surface area of 184,533.3334 square <BR>&gt; &gt; meters, a jump-4<BR>&gt; &gt; drive on this ship uses 116,666.6667 square meters, and a 3G <BR>&gt; &gt; maneuver drive<BR>&gt; &gt; 75,000 square meters, whoops no hull area left!<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Conclusion A FFS1 Tigress and I suspect an FFS2 version would <BR>&gt; &gt; be a Tigress<BR>&gt; &gt; in name only. Perhaps the reported performance was naval propaganda.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I can increase surface area slightly by increasing the <BR>&gt; &gt; proportion of the<BR>&gt; &gt; ship in the box at the rear of the sphere.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; What do people think?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Wing it....&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>Ohh how Gauche... replying to your own email.. ;)<BR><BR>What I mean by wing it is the following:<BR><BR>Yes, use that box at the back to give you more surface area, and<BR>remebert that the front of the Tigress had that Large slice taken out,<BR>which was the focal point of the meson gun (I am trying to remeber this<BR>while at work, but I seem to remeber that there seemed to be a<BR>significant section at the 'front' that was just empty space. (I am<BR>remembering Supplement 9 - Fighting ships... please someone correct me<BR>if I am wrong.)<BR><BR>This would imply to me that because there is a 'Hollow' in the sphere,<BR>you can make the diameter of the sphere a little larger, to tak einto<BR>account the 'lost' volume from the 'hollow' or 'slice'.<BR><BR>You could also consider reducing the surface area for the Man Drives or<BR>the Jump Drive, and come up with some 'interesting and slightly<BR>debilitating' side effect from doing so. <BR><BR>Perhaps consider that the surface area requiremetns may be slightly<BR>decreased by putting in 'Valleys' and 'Towers'.. I don't know how much<BR>of an decrease to expect, that would be up to someone more gearheaded<BR>than I am to work out. <BR><BR>I would also say that you should feel free to adjust the requirements<BR>for Surface Area by a few percentage points (I don't know, maybe up to<BR>10..), so that you can meet the 'canon' requirements for the Tigress.<BR><BR>I would like to see the Tigress maintain its Jump-4 Man-6 capability.<BR>Good Luck!<BR><BR>Finally, when you do finish the design... I would be *very* interesting<BR>in having it mailed to me.. I am thinking of using it against... err I<BR>mean with my players real soon... and since we are using TNE... some<BR>Brilliant Lances stats would be very nice!<BR><BR>Paul Harris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:13:48 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Jump speed.<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 16:16<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; As a result I tend to jump from a standing start... no <BR>&gt; residual vector to<BR>&gt; &gt; overcome. Also renders FTL time travel paradoxes moot.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There's no such thing as a "standing start". Velocity is <BR>&gt; *relative*. So<BR>&gt; while you may be at rest with respect to something, you are <BR>&gt; moving like<BR>&gt; a bat out of hell relative to something else.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Right now you are moving at around 40 km/sec with respect to the Sun<BR>&gt; for example. <BR><BR>So, jump drive astrogation is not just a matter of feeding in<BR>coordinates, but correcting for relative velocities...... no... this<BR>implies that a good enough Astrogation task can take you from standing<BR>still relative to one system, to near c speeds in another. An<BR>interesting idea that violates canon....<BR><BR>Still, I just might use this as a misjump result in future.....<BR><BR>"Yes, you are in the right system, but your velocity is 99 percent the<BR>speed of light, you have missed the mainworld, but only have eight<BR>minutes to dodge the star!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:10:27 +0100<BR>From: CGS &lt;michael@carrickfergus.schoolzone.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustav<BR><BR>Sorry, I knew Cark Gustav was your king (not sure when or how many, but<BR>I knew he was a king) and assumed everyone else did as well.<BR><BR>(like the infamous zeppelin mooring mast in Cthulhu - I could see it was<BR>one but never imagined anyone else couldn't and never said until months<BR>later it cropped up again and I got shouted at because they could not<BR>recognise a mooring mast)<BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 04:56:08 EDT<BR>From: TRiepe5898@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>D Allain wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; However, I still have some <BR>&gt;&nbsp; questions.&nbsp; How do I figure out the capacity of the capacitators? I don’t <BR>&gt;&nbsp; believe that it’s included in the MT referees handbook?&nbsp; I’m just <BR>thinking <BR>&gt;&nbsp; that if I design any starships and want to include a Black Globe, I don’t <BR>&gt;&nbsp; seem to have any stats on capacitators.&nbsp; Also, what does factor x mean <BR>&gt;&nbsp; (factor 1, 2 3, …)? What does it affect?&nbsp; How is a factor 3 better than a <BR>&gt;&nbsp; factor 1??<BR><BR>The rules for capacitors ( called energy sinks ) are given on p.95 of the <BR>Referee´s Manual, hidden in the ship combat rules. They basically say this:<BR><BR>1. A Jump Drive comes with energy sinks equal to: Ship´s volume in kl x Jump <BR>Number x 0.005<BR><BR>2. Each kl of energy sink holds 650 "Mw" of energy.<BR><BR>The rule further details how much energy specific weapons transfer to the <BR>Black Globe, and how you may dispose of stored energy. It does not give any <BR>weights or prices for extra capacitors. Neither did High Guard, were that <BR>rule is from. Another MT error, although copied from earlier rules :(<BR><BR>Factors determine the maximum flicker rate. You may have a flicker rate of <BR>10% for each factor of the screen. Each 10% give you an additonal 6 armor <BR>factors, which give a modifier of -2 ( not +2, as in the rule - and yet <BR>another ... ) to all damage rolls against you, but also against all vessels <BR>you fire at. This "armor", unlike normal armor, also effects meson guns. The <BR>rest of the rule further details effects of flickering Black Globes.<BR><BR>HTH<BR><BR>Tobias Riepe<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 02:13:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: You know that you play too much Traveller if.....<BR><BR>Or when you hear the term "battle dress, utility" and you immediately<BR>think of a stripped-down version of powered combat armor.&nbsp; Been in the<BR>military and reserves for 14 years, and this still happens.<BR><BR>- --- Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Last night on the weather, gusty wind conditions caused the issuing<BR>&gt; of a<BR>&gt; 'Small Craft Warning'.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Naturally I didn't think of watercraft....<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:23:54 +0100 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Jump speed.<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 04 October 2000 06:16<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Gee, I think we just solved the "why not accelerate to <BR>&gt; near c speeds<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; and *then* jump in for the suicide run" bit.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; One of the things I like about TNE (and which only really <BR>&gt; applies because of<BR>&gt; &gt; the reaction thrusters) is the accuracy of the astrogation <BR>&gt; task to plot the<BR>&gt; &gt; jump affects how much manoeuvring you have to do to adjust <BR>&gt; your vector to<BR>&gt; &gt; intercept the planet (or other mass) upon exiting jump.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jump with too big a vector, and you may not have enough <BR>&gt; G-Hours of fuel to<BR>&gt; &gt; readjust your course...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've always figured that you exited jump with the same velocity you<BR>&gt; entered with. That is, no matter *what* you measure your velocity<BR>&gt; relative to (earth, galactic core, some quasar) it'll be the same when<BR>&gt; you enter and exit jump.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; As a result I tend to jump from a standing start... no <BR>&gt; residual vector to<BR>&gt; &gt; overcome. Also renders FTL time travel paradoxes moot.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There's no such thing as a "standing start". Velocity is <BR>&gt; *relative*. So<BR>&gt; while you may be at rest with respect to something, you are <BR>&gt; moving like<BR>&gt; a bat out of hell relative to something else.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Right now you are moving at around 40 km/sec with respect to the Sun<BR>&gt; for example. <BR><BR>Yeah, I know.<BR><BR>However, endless soul-searching about exactly *how* 'Game Mechanic X'<BR>works is, IMHO, often more detrimental to an enjoyable game than just<BR>accepting it. <BR><BR>And to [temporarily] join the Dark Side of Peter Newman's Absolutist<BR>Canonism "That isn't mentioned in the rules, so they deliberately left<BR>it out for the Traveller Universe..." :)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:21:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; High Guard (Book 5) P31. 1 dton of capacitor holds 36 EP (9000 MW),<BR>&gt; cost MCr 4. The jump drive contains 0.5% * ship Mass * jump number of<BR>&gt; capacitors. <BR><BR>I bet that's 9000 MJ, not MW.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 23:22:36 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tigress Class - Progress Report<BR>&gt; Have now reached the most difficult part of the Tigress class, its lack of<BR>&gt; surface area.<BR>&gt; The sphere is absolutely the wrong configuration for a major warship.<BR>&gt; The result, using FFS1, the Tigress is likely to lose its jump-4 capability<BR>&gt; and has lost its 6G maneuver drive.<BR><BR>Actually, for maximum armor protection at minimum armor mass, the sphere<BR>is the ideal shape, precisely because it minimizes hull area.&nbsp; Perhaps a<BR>minor decrease in armor thickness will allow you to maintain the<BR>performance of the _Tigress_-class.<BR><BR>Note that AuricTech's design bureau prefers non-sphere configurations<BR>for warships (especially Wedge and Rounded Cylinder hullforms), because<BR>such hull configurations both allow longer spinal mounts and reduce<BR>meson gun effectiveness (under HG2).&nbsp; We at AuricTech believe that the<BR>tradeoffs between armor mass, deadlier spinal mounts and reduced<BR>vulnerability to meson guns make non-sphere configurations worthwhile.<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 03:26:55<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Karl Gustav<BR><BR>At 10:47 PM 10/3/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I thought it was the name of all Swedish kings . . .&nbsp; :&nbsp; )<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Can't be; after all, weren't the Swedes the ones who recruited<BR>&gt;Bernadotte for their throne?<BR><BR>Well, sure, but they pronounced it "Carl Gustav."<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:46:45 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Karl Gustav<BR><BR>&gt; GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; It's the name of our king, dammit!&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I thought it was the name of all Swedish kings . . .&nbsp; :&nbsp; )<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Can't be; after all, weren't the Swedes the ones who recruited<BR>&gt; Bernadotte for their throne?<BR><BR>That's right. But he was forced to take a swedish name, so Jean Baptiste<BR>Bernadotte == Karl XIV Johan. Also, he was adopted by Karl XIII (who had no<BR>children and had become rather senile, suffering several strokes before he<BR>died in 1818).<BR><BR>We have had a lot of 'King (K|C)arl *'s. And a lot of 'King Gusta(v|f) *'s.<BR>Only two (K|C)arl NN Gusta(v|f), in the known last 2k years though: Karl X<BR>Gustav (1622-1660) and Carl XVI Gustaf (1946-).<BR><BR>Ummm. But all of that is pretty boring, even to a Swede.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3119<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (rly-zd03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.227]) by air-zd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 07:02:23 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com ([204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Wed, 04 Oct 2000 07:01:46 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id GAA89681;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:52:45 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:51:17 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA89632<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:51:16 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:51:16 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010041051.GAA89632@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3119<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wednesday, October 4 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3120<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Karl Gustav<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: IP v6 and similar number systems...<BR>Traveller Items Available<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 12:53:00 CEST<BR>From: "Patrik Holmstrm" &lt;glappkaeft@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Karl Gustav<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;It's the name of our king, dammit!&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Aren't all of you kings named that?&nbsp; :)<BR><BR>Not really. We have had 16 kings named Karl however (the first in 1161) but <BR>only 2 of them where also named Gustav (the one in 1654 is prob. the one <BR>that rifle factory got its name from.<BR><BR>Patrik<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 13:03:48 CEST<BR>From: "Patrik Holmstrm" &lt;glappkaeft@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;"Fleet Sergeant, what happened?"<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;"Well sir, we needed to order 80 new med packs, which have the ISCN<BR>&gt;&gt;179-GUS3-73590.&nbsp; But somehow, it got twisted into 719-GUS3-73590, and<BR>&gt;&gt;supply acted on that request."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Which is why it's a good idea to have things set up the way the<BR>&gt;Canadian and UK Postal codes are. They use alternating number/letter<BR>&gt;patterns so that if you transpose things, you get not merely a bad<BR>&gt;code, but an *obviously* bad one.<BR><BR>Or use some kind of a checksum algorithm like the ones used by banks or the <BR>Swedish ID number.<BR><BR>Mine ID number is 780629-8514, where the 6th first is date of birth and the <BR>7th and 8th is the hospital your where born in, the 9th is odd for boys even <BR>for girls and the last digit is the checksum.<BR><BR>If one number is entered wrong this is detected by the checksum. It can also <BR>detect most error involving more then one digit.<BR><BR>Patrik<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 13:14:36 CEST<BR>From: "Patrik Holmstrm" &lt;glappkaeft@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: IP v6 and similar number systems...<BR><BR>&gt;This reminds me of the new IP addressing system they're thinking of<BR>&gt;implementing.&nbsp; It's 128-bit instead of 32, and uses batches of 4 hex<BR>&gt;numbers.&nbsp; So you get IP addresses like this:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;F75A:A978:78D4...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Remind you of anything? :-)&nbsp;&nbsp; I look forward to the day when I can have &gt;an <BR>&gt;IP address the same as my favorite UPP, UWP, etc...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Charles C.<BR><BR>Why wait fot IPv6? Hexadecimal notation is legal under IPv4 and is <BR>implimented in most browsers.<BR><BR>Patrik<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 06:16:45 -0500 <BR>From: "Dorfman, Steven, Maj" &lt;Steven.Dorfman@mcconnell.af.mil&gt;<BR>Subject: Traveller Items Available<BR><BR>I have numerous Traveller items available for sale.&nbsp; If you are interested<BR>please email me at steven.dorfman@mcconnell.af.mil.<BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com]<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 10:13 PM<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3118<BR><BR><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tuesday, October 3 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3118<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR>Re: Black Globes<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>RE: Relativity/TML Community<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>RE: Relativity<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR>Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: TNE Heresy?<BR>Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR>Re: Jump Speed<BR>Re: Black Globes<BR>Re: Carl Gustav<BR><BR>- ----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:41:42 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm no physicist either. However, I've found it much easier to consider<BR>&gt; relativity from a point of view of cause and effect. This appears to be<BR>how<BR>&gt; Einstein approached the problem... the difficulty most of us have is that<BR>we<BR>&gt; start with preconceived, common-sense (i.e. Newtonian) notions of how the<BR>&gt; universe works... that time and space are absolute and independent of<BR>&gt; velocity, as you posit. Don't get hung up on bizarre outcomes... go<BR>through<BR>&gt; the thought process and you'll see that it MUST be right.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Einstein started with the premise that the speed of light must be a<BR>&gt; constant, regardless of the frame of reference of the observer.<BR><BR>Actually, he started out with that as something established by<BR>experiment, and that needed to be explained.<BR><BR>&gt; Everything<BR>&gt; else is based on that; there is no ABSOLUTE frame of reference. This<BR>&gt; premise, by the way, is based on the results of experiments to determine<BR>the<BR>&gt; nature of the "ether", that supposed medium through which light waves were<BR>&gt; presumably propagated. The experiments showed that the ether does not<BR>exist.<BR><BR>Actually, they didn't. There *could* have been an ether. It'd just have<BR>to be motionless with respect to the surface of the earth. Which is<BR>*damn* unlikely. :-)<BR><BR>- - -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:49:05 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The "correct" situation is that relativity doesn't allow for absolute<BR>&gt;&gt; or preferred frames of reference.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Which I've kept meaning to bring up...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "1 week" for jump is one week in what frame of reference?<BR>&gt; If you're going at .9c, does the jump take longer to observers going<BR>&gt; slower? It's the fixed one week jump time that violates relativity<BR>&gt; more than anything else, unless you attach it to some local frame<BR>&gt; of reference, which isn't really done anywhere (though I do understand <BR>&gt; that the idea for 'Book -1: Intro To Relativity'was indeed floated <BR>&gt; about at GDW for a while...)<BR><BR>It'd have to be that of the ship. Or rather, a frame in which the ship<BR>was stationary when it entered jump (and the ship should still be at<BR>rest in that frame when it exits jump). <BR><BR>That does the least violence to anything. BTW, keep in mind that the<BR>*distance* has to be figured in the same frame as the *time*.<BR><BR>So at a high enough speed, the ship will take twice as long to jump<BR>half as far!<BR><BR>Gee, I think we just solved the "why not accelerate to near c speeds<BR>and *then* jump in for the suicide run" bit. <BR><BR>- - -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:33:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I still don't see that. The ship/information doesn't travel backwards in<BR>&gt; time.<BR><BR>It dpends on how fast you are moving. If you are moving fast enough in<BR>the right direction, it *does* move backwards in time. <BR><BR>&gt; By the nature of jump travell it arrive 1 week after it left.<BR><BR>One week according to folks moving at more or less the same velocity. <BR><BR>If it's one week regardless of the velocity of the observer, you've got<BR>a "preferred frame" on your hands, which *also* breaks relativity.<BR><BR>Ditto if it only takes a week for folks moving about the speed the<BR>local stellar neighborhood is, and for folks at other velocities, it<BR>takes the same time in *our* frame. That makes us "special". <BR><BR>So it has to take a week for the folks on the ship, and any folks<BR>moving at the same velocity they were moving at when they jumped (which<BR>is also the velocity they exit jump with). <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; It's a matter of the way space and time are *gemoetrically* related.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I understand that, I just have a problem with it. Just like I have a<BR>&gt; mental problem with photonic pressure for light sails and photons having<BR>&gt; no mass.<BR><BR>They have no *rest* mass. They do have *momentum*. <BR><BR>It's no more "weird" than finding out that heavy objects and light ones<BR>fall at the same speed (which is also counter intuitive), instead of at<BR>different ones.<BR><BR>Your intution is based on *experience*, And you don't have any<BR>experience of near c conditions.<BR><BR>- - -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:44:46 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; What gets me about the common thought experiment above is that I can't<BR>&gt; figure out why it doesn't work both ways. How can you tell if the ship is<BR>&gt; moving instead of the asteroid? Shouldn't time on the asteroid slow down<BR>for<BR>&gt; an observer on the ship?<BR><BR>It *does*. But unless one of them accelerates (changes direction *or*<BR>speed) they'll never be able to compare their clocks directly. <BR><BR>If one of them *does* accerelate so as to meet the other, *he* will be<BR>found to be the one who had the slow clock.<BR><BR>- - -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:55:51 -0700<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;M60 seems to be a common designation, too. For widely differing things. I<BR>&gt; &gt;wonder of the Imperial Ministry of Standards has fixed this one, or do<BR>the<BR>&gt; &gt;Imperial Forces order a crate of M292A3s from a planetary supplier and<BR>get<BR>&gt; &gt;50,000 biscuits instead of antitank weapons.... or vice versa?<BR>&gt; &gt;MJD<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hey considering the general ineptness of most supply situations it<BR>wouldn't<BR>&gt; matter what you called them they would still deliver the wrong stuff to<BR>the<BR>&gt; right people and the right stuff to the enemy.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Fortunately, the enemy usually suffers from the same kinds of problems.<BR><BR>"Dammit, we ordered 25 cases GS36/A4 psi boost capsules.&nbsp; We got 15 cases of<BR>GS63-A4, laxatives, individual, constipation, for the use of"<BR><BR>"Actually, we got 25 cases.&nbsp; 10 were already issued to field units"<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:53:46 -0700<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR><BR>It's the Rampart RF-128 isn't it?&nbsp; OK, rhetorical question.&nbsp; Source:<BR><BR>"Brilliant Lances", Technical Booklet, p. 48<BR><BR>Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Can anyone on the list point me to FFS1 stats for the standard Imperial<BR>&gt; Heavy Fighter. Which I require for the TNE version of the Tigress class<BR>&gt; battleship I have just about finished.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Antony<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:32:32 -0700<BR>From: "Tod Glenn" &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Thank you for the information, Shadow.&nbsp; However, I still have some<BR>&gt; &gt; questions.&nbsp; How do I figure out the capacity of the capacitators?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Capacitor, not capacitator. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's in the design rules somewhere. Basicly &lt;some number&gt; per dTon.<BR><BR>Don't know about MT, but High Guard has details on them.&nbsp; I'll post numbers<BR>when I return to base camp.<BR><BR>Tod<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 16:31:21 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; It'd have to be that of the ship. Or rather, a frame in which the ship<BR>&gt; was stationary when it entered jump (and the ship should still be at<BR>&gt; rest in that frame when it exits jump). <BR><BR>Well, only if relativity is true.&nbsp; Otherwise, you're probably safest using a<BR>fixed reference frame, probably based on the movement of the galaxy.&nbsp; It <BR>doesn't require that relativity be false for known phenomena, it just means<BR>that there are phenomena for which frame invariance is false, and thus<BR>relativity is not entirely accurate.<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:34:45 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity/TML Community<BR><BR>I second the motion. The TML (along with the rest of the Traveller <BR>community) is a great association. The people are willing to listen and <BR>respond. Including Marc Miller. Never have I known TSR/Wizards to be this <BR>way.<BR><BR>Recently, a concern has been raised that the roleplaying community is not <BR>attracting enough new blood. This is mainly due to the older gamers scoffing<BR><BR>at the younger players for their inexperience and "munchkin" tendencies <BR>(which even the most experienced buffs once had!).<BR><BR>This is not so with Traveller. I'm a newbie, and when I asked for help <BR>regarding merchant campaigns, I recieved several helpful responses. This is <BR>_very_ encouraging for both Traveller and roleplaying in general. Clearly, <BR>we're a kinder, more caring community!<BR><BR>As long as there's a Traveller, there'll be roleplaying!<BR><BR>- - -J. Jensen<BR>"In the end, there can be only Traveller!"<BR>- - -(even more relevant in regard to what I just said)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: "'traveller@lists.ient.com'" &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Relativity<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 10:54:59 +1100<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Quite likely, still, one of the reasons I am on this list is because I<BR>&gt;can learn a lot of real world science from many knowledgeable material.<BR>&gt;If a creationist wants to ask a few questions which may end up providing<BR>&gt;me with better explanations of relativity, thermodynamics, and quantum<BR>&gt;physics, then I am happy to learn. :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I have also noted that respondents on the list have replied to these<BR>&gt;sorts of questions with respect, maturity and factual knowledge, and for<BR>&gt;that I wish to lavish great praise on all list members. Congradulations<BR>&gt;to all of you, please keep it up.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And keep that physics, chemistry and biological knowledge comming, it<BR>&gt;puts the Science in Science Fiction Roleplaying!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Paul Harris (Hard Sci-Fi buff)<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 16:38:47 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's no more "weird" than finding out that heavy objects and light ones<BR>&gt; fall at the same speed (which is also counter intuitive), instead of at<BR>&gt; different ones.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Your intution is based on *experience*, And you don't have any<BR>&gt; experience of near c conditions.<BR><BR>For an idea of what life at near C might be like, go to:<BR><BR>http://www.anu.edu.au/Physics/Searle/<BR><BR>They have some mpegs and real media visualizations of what the world<BR>would look like if we lived in a regime where near C was a common<BR>experience.<BR><BR>Interesting stuff.<BR><BR><BR>- - -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 18:48:08 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snips discussion of Special and General Relativity&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Not true.&nbsp; In order to explain why requires general relativity, since SR<BR>&gt; spplies only to non-accelerated (inertial) systems, and starting and<BR>&gt; stopping require acceleration.&nbsp; Suffice it to say that the accelerated<BR>&gt; clock will experience less elapsed time.<BR><BR>&lt;tongue-in-cheek&gt;<BR><BR>Ah!&nbsp; _Now_ I understand why men going through mid-life crises have a<BR>reputation for blowing unseemly sums of cash on sports cars.&nbsp; Just as<BR>dietary cravings are sometimes linked to nutritional deficiencies,<BR>middle-aged men sometimes have a "craving" for time dilation, which they<BR>attempt to satisfy via acceleration.<BR><BR>This also explains why fighter jocks have a reputation (among other<BR>members of the armed forces) for immaturity.&nbsp; Since they experience<BR>unusual acceleration on a routine basis, they _are_ less mature.<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; This also expalains the nearly adolescent level of risk taking<BR>displayed by many PCs, especially those who have served in the Imperial<BR>Navy or Marines.&nbsp; Serving aboard ships that often pull 6 gees<BR>acceleration in combat delays their maturation processes.<BR><BR>&lt;/tongue-in-cheek&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>- - -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 00:49:19 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>- - ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Leonard Erickson" &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Gee, I think we just solved the "why not accelerate to near c speeds<BR>&gt; and *then* jump in for the suicide run" bit.<BR><BR>One of the things I like about TNE (and which only really applies because of<BR>the reaction thrusters) is the accuracy of the astrogation task to plot the<BR>jump affects how much manoeuvring you have to do to adjust your vector to<BR>intercept the planet (or other mass) upon exiting jump.<BR><BR>Jump with too big a vector, and you may not have enough G-Hours of fuel to<BR>readjust your course...<BR><BR>As a result I tend to jump from a standing start... no residual vector to<BR>overcome. Also renders FTL time travel paradoxes moot.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:02:47 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>adouglas@optonline.net wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The fact that several of Einstein's predictions have been proven by<BR>&gt; experiment and observation shows that our common-sense, Newtonian notions<BR>do<BR>&gt; not reflect reality.<BR><BR>IMHO, Newtonian physics _do_ provide an adequate reflection of reality<BR>for common-sense-level environments.&nbsp; It's only when the environment<BR>shifts to unusual conditions (acceleration of objects in a vacuum, for<BR>instance) that the shortcomings become obvious.&nbsp; Indeed, I expect that,<BR>at some point, Einstein's theories will be considered as quaint as<BR>Newton's are currently.<BR><BR>As an analogy, the fact that an observatory's mirrors are far closer to<BR>optical perfection than my shaving mirror does not make my shaving<BR>mirror useless for its intended purpose (to let me see what I'm doing<BR>with those sharp blades with sufficient clarity to keep me from slicing<BR>and dicing my face).&nbsp; Neither mirror is perfect, yet both have their<BR>functions.<BR><BR>- - -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 20:13:01 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Ya, okay, but what does all this have to do with the Kessel Run being done<BR>in under 12 parsecs?&nbsp; &lt;g,d,r...&gt;<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:57:59 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity<BR><BR>The Kessel Run is an area of space where there is a jump one main<BR>between the Kessel System and the Lucrative System. The two systems<BR>produce goods that are in high demand on each other's worlds, so much<BR>profit can be made selling Kessel Goods at Lucrative and vice versa.<BR><BR>The problem is that if you follow the jump one main from Kessel to<BR>Lucrative, you have to make 30 Jump Ones (or travel around 30 parsecs)<BR>to do it. There are shorter journeys available for ships whith higher<BR>jump drives.&nbsp; The ideal route is the one that is two jump 6's, Kessel to<BR>Uninhabitied Rock to Lucrative (and back). This is how the Kessel run is<BR>done in twelve parsecs. <BR><BR>;)<BR><BR>Paul Harris<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Charles Collin [mailto:charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca]<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 4 October 2000 11:13<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ya, okay, but what does all this have to do with the Kessel <BR>&gt; Run being done<BR>&gt; in under 12 parsecs?&nbsp; &lt;g,d,r...&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Charles C.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:26:55 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Doug wrote:<BR>&gt;"Fleet Sergeant, what happened?"<BR><BR>ROTFL! Doug, this little exchange has _got_ to be enshrined in the Silly<BR>Era...<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 19:15:46 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR><BR>No.&nbsp; The RF-128 is the fighter carried by the Azhanti High Lightning. <BR>The heavy fighter is a 50-ton job with a stateroom for the crew.<BR><BR>- - --- Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; It's the Rampart RF-128 isn't it?&nbsp; OK, rhetorical question.&nbsp; Source:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Brilliant Lances", Technical Booklet, p. 48<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Can anyone on the list point me to FFS1 stats for the standard<BR>&gt; Imperial<BR>&gt; &gt; Heavy Fighter. Which I require for the TNE version of the Tigress<BR>&gt; class<BR>&gt; &gt; battleship I have just about finished.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Antony<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>ther Traveller - http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion -<BR>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act<BR>3, Scene 1<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:30:31 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>The Roc said:<BR>&gt;&gt; I can just see some Imperial Navy supply petty officer receiving sewing<BR>&gt;&gt; needles when he was sure he ordered jump drive coils.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And do the US military do that reverse name/description thing?&nbsp; Like,<BR>&gt;"Razor, shaving, face thereof?" Or "Paint, Green, Olive...?" :^)<BR><BR>That's done to home in on the target from a broad to narrow catagory.<BR><BR>Forex, my understanding is that the Oz military borrowed the Library of<BR>Congress<BR>Subject Headings (LCSH) catagorisation system. they use a subset that they<BR>devised called "Deftest" (bad ASCII art follows ;-):<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; broader term (BT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>synonym &lt;---&gt; term (T) &lt;---&gt; related term (RT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; narrower term (NT)<BR><BR><BR>For example, for the term "bullet":<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (Munitions)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ammunition<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>Round &lt;------&gt; BULLET &lt;------&gt; Shell<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ^<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; v<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Jacketed,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rifle/pistol,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hollowpoint,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; .303 etc<BR><BR>Note that multiple relationships exist - "Ammunition" is also the broader<BR>term<BR>(BT) for "Shell", for example.<BR><BR>The main thing this is used for is to generate keywords for use when<BR>searching<BR>for a particular subject, and to catagorise systems.<BR><BR>BTW, I still haven't heard what keywords were used by that person who<BR>created a<BR>database of JTAS articles? &lt;slaps forehead&gt; Maybe _I_ should start using the<BR>LCSH system!!<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:44:30 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: TNE Heresy?<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Jonathan asked:<BR>&gt;I recently got hold of a TNE rulebook, and their UPP in there had eight<BR>&gt;stats<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This seemed to me like a pretty good notation, getting the most significant<BR>&gt;stats into a single UPP.&nbsp; What do people think of this?<BR><BR>It's a great idea. I've done this sort of thing ever since the original<BR>Aliens<BR>books added Psi, Charisma, and Caste (from the Zhos, Vargr, and Droyne,<BR>respectively).<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:48:17 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Timothy just answered my question:<BR>&gt;&gt;I am interested in what the Bibliography uses for its keywords? I<BR>&gt;&gt;classified<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;OK, I should clarify straight away I did NOT keyword every article in all<BR>&gt;of the periodicals that are included in the bibliography...<BR><BR>Sorry, Timothy, I just asked the question again, before reading all my mail.<BR>Thanks for your reply.<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:59:17 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Speed<BR><BR>Rear Folks -<BR><BR>Anthony said:<BR>&gt;Most SF universes don't directly deal with these problems, but if you look<BR>at<BR>&gt;how FTL seems to work, most of them seem to assume that the concept of<BR>&gt;simultaneous events is meaningful, which in turn implies the existence of a<BR>&gt;preferred reference system and violates relativity.<BR><BR>Ah! Well, that's the answer then!<BR><BR>Since (ah, since some on the TML decided) jumpspace is an artificial<BR>construction of the Ancients (or maybe Primordials ;-), they created it in<BR>such<BR>a way as to make _it_ the preferred reference system. No wonder the Imperium<BR>can't crack J6! They are looking at N-space for references instead of<BR>looking at<BR>J-space and working from there! It all becomes clear now! Fnord, YMMV,<BR>"nothing<BR>to see here, these aren't the droids you're looking for, move along now"...<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:03:06 +1100 (EST)<BR>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= &lt;ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>At 3 Oct 2000 15:19:33 PST Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; Also, what does factor x mean<BR>&gt; &gt; (factor 1, 2 3, ...)? What does it affect?&nbsp; How is a factor 3<BR>better than a<BR>&gt; &gt; factor 1??<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I don't have those books handy, sorry.<BR><BR>I don't have my books here either, but IIRC the factor represents the<BR>flicker rate of the globe in percent per second (ie, factor 2<BR>represents the globe flickering so it provides protection for 20% of<BR>each second. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong...<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Craig.<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>&lt;ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au&gt;&nbsp; &lt;craig_barnett@iname.com&gt;<BR>Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller<BR><BR>____________________________________________________________________________<BR>_<BR>http://sport.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Australia &amp; NZ Sports<BR>- - - Get the latest on the Olympics<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 19:49:21<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Carl Gustav<BR><BR>At 08:10 PM 10/3/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>&gt;CGS wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Nearly very weapon made in Sweden seems to be called Carl Gustav. I<BR>&gt;&gt; think it may be the name of the factory where the arms are made.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's the name of our king, dammit!&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>Aren't all of you kings named that?&nbsp; :)<BR>- - -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>- ------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3118<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3120<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Wednesday, October 4 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3121<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>RE: Black Globes<BR>Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR>RE: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR>RE: Karl Gustav<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>New mines for a new era.<BR>FW: Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: New mines for a new era.<BR>Re: Karl Gustav<BR>Paging Jesse DeGraff<BR>RE: Relativity <BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>RE: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 13:34:04 CEST<BR>From: "Patrik Holmstrm" &lt;glappkaeft@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>Avoiding conflicting model numbers is of cource trivial. For instance <BR>instead of naming every thing M-nn, you just name them Thing-nn.<BR><BR>RL examples:<BR>AK-5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (automatic rifle 5)<BR>Robot-15 (missile 15)<BR>Strv 122 (tank 122, second tank with a 12-12.999 cm main gun)<BR>etc<BR><BR>I use it for all my Traveller designs and it is a ripoff of the the method <BR>the Swedish military uses.<BR><BR>Patrik<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 12:47:11 +0100 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Black Globes<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 04 October 2000 09:21<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; High Guard (Book 5) P31. 1 dton of capacitor holds <BR>&gt; 36 EP (9000 MW),<BR>&gt; &gt; cost MCr 4. The jump drive contains 0.5% * ship Mass * jump <BR>&gt; number of<BR>&gt; &gt; capacitors. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I bet that's 9000 MJ, not MW.<BR><BR>Actually, it'll be 10.8e12J, as 1 EP = 250MW for one 20 minute High<BR>Guard turn (1200s).<BR><BR>36 x 250 x 1200 = 10,800,000,000,000 Joules<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:04:58 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Timothy just answered my question:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;I am interested in what the Bibliography uses for its keywords? I<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;classified<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;OK, I should clarify straight away I did NOT keyword every article in all<BR>&gt;&gt;of the periodicals that are included in the bibliography...<BR><BR>&gt;Sorry, Timothy, I just asked the question again, before reading all my<BR>mail.<BR>&gt;Thanks for your reply.<BR><BR><BR>Not to worry.&nbsp; I didn't see your repeat of the question until after the<BR>apology anyway.&nbsp; Is TML time travelling again.<BR><BR>I did find it intriguing how two threads nearly merged as the 'classes' got<BR>to Broader Terms, Narrower Terms, Related terms etc. and LCSH.&nbsp; Made me<BR>feel right at home.&nbsp; But it was at that stage that my Traveller Thesaurus<BR>started to get somewwhat bogged down.&nbsp; Still, if I get time (hah!) maybe<BR>I'll dig it out again.&nbsp; I think Robert Eaglestone might have done some work<BR>in this direction as well (or was it Colin of Downport fame?).<BR><BR>I think there's the ability of several and there's the inclination of some<BR>of us to work on such a project, it's probably just a question of time.<BR>I've mentally pencilled in for sometime around 2003 when I've finished what<BR>would be the third and final volume of bibliography (all the remaining<BR>articles in non-Traveller journals and possibly fanzines as well).<BR><BR><BR><BR>Oh, and I checked on the font last night but had no luck.&nbsp; Leonard's<BR>suggestion of the alt group sounded more hopeful.<BR><BR>tc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:09:50 +0100 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Imperial Heavy Fighter<BR><BR>Kristian Miller wrote:<BR>&gt; It's the Rampart RF-128 isn't it?<BR><BR>Sorry, no.&nbsp; IIRC the RF-128 is a 20 dton light fighter (Type=FF).<BR>The 50 dton Imperial standard heavy fighter (Type=FH)&nbsp; was&nbsp; never<BR>named.&nbsp; Other fighters include the COACC&nbsp; 50&nbsp; dton&nbsp; Magnum&nbsp; class<BR>fighter (Type=FH but not the Imperial standard FH) and an unnamed<BR>20 dton strike fighter (Type=FS).<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 13:00:31 +0100 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Karl Gustav<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Tage Borg [mailto:tage@hem.passagen.se]<BR>&gt; Sent: 04 October 2000 11:47<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Karl Gustav<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; It's the name of our king, dammit!&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I thought it was the name of all Swedish kings . . .&nbsp; :&nbsp; )<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Can't be; after all, weren't the Swedes the ones who recruited<BR>&gt; &gt; Bernadotte for their throne?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's right. But he was forced to take a swedish name, so <BR>&gt; Jean Baptiste<BR>&gt; Bernadotte == Karl XIV Johan. Also, he was adopted by Karl <BR>&gt; XIII (who had no<BR>&gt; children and had become rather senile, suffering several <BR>&gt; strokes before he<BR>&gt; died in 1818).<BR><BR>I've always like Bernadotte.<BR><BR>A loyal and successful General for Napoleon, offered the Crown of<BR>Sweden, he asked permission from Napoleon, who granted it thinking he<BR>would be getting a Loyal Puppet in Scandinavia...<BR><BR>Upon being made Monarch, Bernadotte assessed the military and political<BR>situation Sweden was in, and decided it was in Sweden's best interest to<BR>oppose Napoleon. As a loyal Monarch to Sweden, he did just that, as his<BR>oath to protect Swedish interests superseded his oath of loyalty to<BR>Napoleon.<BR><BR>Ob Trav: When I first GM'ed MT, just about all my players characters had<BR>loyally served the Imperium for 20-30 years, rising to the ranks of<BR>General/Admiral etc. Upon retirement they immediately decide to<BR>overthrow the remnants of Imperial Authority in the region and set<BR>themselves up a nice little Pocket Empire... No Gratitude, I suppose :)<BR><BR>Matt <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 07:38:15 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Patrik Holmstrm wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Or use some kind of a checksum algorithm like the ones used by banks or the <BR>&gt; Swedish ID number.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Mine ID number is 780629-8514, where the 6th first is date of birth and the <BR>&gt; 7th and 8th is the hospital your where born in, the 9th is odd for boys even <BR>&gt; for girls and the last digit is the checksum.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If one number is entered wrong this is detected by the checksum. It can also <BR>&gt; detect most error involving more then one digit.<BR><BR>Ouch! I sure hope that system isn't used in allegedly secure financial<BR>transactions, such as the SSN is (mis) used here in the States. Such a<BR>simple number generation systems a) makes it vastly simpler for identity<BR>theft to occur (since it is likely that ALL of that data is public<BR>information... most birth records are) and b) it isn't unique...every male<BR>child born that day in a busy hospital will have the same ID number.<BR><BR>&lt;tongue-in-cheek&gt; <BR>But that's ok, you're all named Carl Gustav, anyway<BR>&lt;/TIC&gt;<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 10:09:13 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>No way!!!<BR><BR>Since the asteroid is moving at near-c speeds relative to the ship, it <BR>should also suffer the same time dilation. This would apply to the rest of <BR>the universe. So, time would pass normally inside and out side of the ship. <BR>Ditto for all the other effects. So, velocity would make _no difference <BR>whatsoever_. And relativity, for all its proven-ness, would be meaningless.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:44:46 PST<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; What gets me about the common thought experiment above is that I can't<BR>&gt; &gt; figure out why it doesn't work both ways. How can you tell if the ship <BR>&gt;is<BR>&gt; &gt; moving instead of the asteroid? Shouldn't time on the asteroid slow down <BR>&gt;for<BR>&gt; &gt; an observer on the ship?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It *does*. But unless one of them accelerates (changes direction *or*<BR>&gt;speed) they'll never be able to compare their clocks directly.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If one of them *does* accerelate so as to meet the other, *he* will be<BR>&gt;found to be the one who had the slow clock.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt;leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:22:28 -0700<BR>From: "Thing" &lt;gduke@telebyte.com&gt;<BR>Subject: New mines for a new era.<BR><BR>This article reminded me of some of the recent battlefield armaments<BR>discussions we have had here lately.<BR><BR>http://uk.news.yahoo.com/000927/12/akv0z.html<BR><BR>G.D.D.<BR>Thing under the stairs,<BR>Minion of Shechemist &amp; GothBunny,<BR>Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>===========================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 08:32:29 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: FW: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>I got a bounce message with this, so I'm sending it again.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: Glenn M. Goffin [mailto:gmgoffin@earthlink.net]<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2000 9:47 AM<BR><BR>&gt;From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;And do the US military do that reverse name/description thing?&nbsp; Like,<BR>&gt;"Razor, shaving, face thereof?" Or "Paint, Green, Olive...?" :^)<BR><BR>That comes from the Napoleonic French Army.&nbsp; As you know, in the French<BR>language, adjectives ordinarily follow the nouns, rather than precede them<BR>as in English.&nbsp; Napoleon developed the largest army in the world, and had to<BR>deal with very serious logistical headaches.&nbsp; One approach was to use the<BR>language to identify stuff:&nbsp; "Fusil, petit, ordinaire," "Cuisine,<BR>wagon-mobile, avec chefs, trois" and so on.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 09:40:10 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New mines for a new era.<BR><BR>Uhhh....one little problem with this: if you have a crew there clearing<BR>mines, you kill one. All the rest hop up within 10 seconds and settle<BR>back down. A cheap video camera will show you where they all went.<BR><BR>Considerably less cheap point defense systems will shoot 'em all down<BR>when they hop. Turns mine clearing into a really explosive game of<BR>whack-a-mole.<BR><BR><BR>Now the trick is to get 'em to hop away when a human sized target<BR>approaches 'em. Boing! Boing! "Dammit mine, stay still!" Boing boing!<BR><BR><BR><BR>Thing wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This article reminded me of some of the recent battlefield armaments<BR>&gt; discussions we have had here lately.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://uk.news.yahoo.com/000927/12/akv0z.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; G.D.D.<BR>&gt; Thing under the stairs,<BR>&gt; Minion of Shechemist &amp; GothBunny,<BR>&gt; Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>&gt; ===========================<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:54:40 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Karl Gustav<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;It's the name of our king, dammit!&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Aren't all of you kings named that?&nbsp; :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not really. We have had 16 kings named Karl however (the first in 1161)<BR>but<BR>&gt; only 2 of them where also named Gustav (the one in 1654 is prob. the one<BR>&gt; that rifle factory got its name from.<BR><BR>Probably. Karl X Gustav conquered Norway, the southern parts of Sweden<BR>(eralier the7y belonged to Denmark), Poland, part of Russia and all of the<BR>Baltic countries. Quite a feat. He didn't die in combat, though, but<BR>succumbed to some kind of disease.<BR><BR>Carl XVI Gustaf has done nothing of the kind. ;-)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:12:02 -0500<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Paging Jesse DeGraff<BR><BR>Jesee, please get in touch with Phil (phil@sjgames.com) ASAP.<BR><BR>This is urgent.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 15:31:23 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity <BR><BR>&gt; Paul Harris wrote<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Quite likely, still, one of the reasons I am on this list<BR>&gt; is because I<BR>&gt; can learn a lot of real world science from many<BR>&gt; knowledgeable material.<BR>&gt; If a creationist wants to ask a few questions which may end<BR>&gt; up providing<BR>&gt; me with better explanations of relativity, thermodynamics,<BR>&gt; and quantum<BR>&gt; physics, then I am happy to learn. :)<BR>&gt;<BR>The best description of space-time and relativity I've seen was in New<BR>Scientist some months back in an article about quantum information<BR>structures within the dimensional foam at the basis of reality (yeah -<BR>what an idea). It described space-time as a four dimensional (actually<BR>7-dimensional, but 3 were "hidden" in the quantum foam) pyramidial or<BR>conical shape with the big bang up at the pointy end, here-and-now at<BR>the base and who-knows-what beyond that (it assumed it existed but<BR>that information from it couldn't reach us so we could _never_ know<BR>what the future would be).<BR><BR>The speed of light in this is defined as the speed at which you can<BR>hold position on the cone (ie. not move into the "future" along with<BR>the rest of us). It had lovely calculations to show that if you did<BR>that you could _never_ get back where you came from simply because you<BR>would be forever adjusting your speed to get nearer to matching your<BR>point of origin - but going FTL was possible. If you go FTL and try to<BR>stay in the same timeline position, it can't work - you move in space<BR>FTL but move into the PAST (not future) when you do and can never get<BR>back to the place you set off from.<BR><BR>My explanation is rubbish, but the article was good.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:17:13 +1300<BR>From: "Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>On 3 Oct 2000, at 23:22, John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Tigress Class - Progress Report<BR>&gt; &gt; Have now reached the most difficult part of the Tigress class, its lack of<BR>&gt; &gt; surface area. The sphere is absolutely the wrong configuration for a major<BR>&gt; &gt; warship. The result, using FFS1, the Tigress is likely to lose its jump-4<BR>&gt; &gt; capability and has lost its 6G maneuver drive.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, for maximum armor protection at minimum armor mass, the sphere<BR>&gt; is the ideal shape, precisely because it minimizes hull area.&nbsp; Perhaps a<BR>&gt; minor decrease in armor thickness will allow you to maintain the<BR>&gt; performance of the _Tigress_-class.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Note that AuricTech's design bureau prefers non-sphere configurations<BR>&gt; for warships (especially Wedge and Rounded Cylinder hullforms), because<BR>&gt; such hull configurations both allow longer spinal mounts and reduce<BR>&gt; meson gun effectiveness (under HG2).&nbsp; We at AuricTech believe that the<BR>&gt; tradeoffs between armor mass, deadlier spinal mounts and reduced<BR>&gt; vulnerability to meson guns make non-sphere configurations worthwhile.<BR><BR>Ever since I tried to make a nice big warship using FFS1 way back when I've <BR>been a beliver in long thin hulls. Sure you get less armour, but you get more <BR>surface area for drives, and the whole ship can be smaller for the same spinal <BR>PAW. Seems like a bargain to me.<BR><BR>- --<BR>"Rupert Boleyn" &lt;rboleyn@paradise.net.nz&gt;<BR><BR>A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 14:47:59 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>Rupert Boleyn writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On 3 Oct 2000, at 23:22, John Groth wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Tigress Class - Progress Report<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Have now reached the most difficult part of the Tigress class, its lack<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; of surface area. The sphere is absolutely the wrong configuration for<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; a major warship. The result, using FFS1, the Tigress is likely to lose<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; its jump-4 capability and has lost its 6G maneuver drive.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Actually, for maximum armor protection at minimum armor mass, the sphere<BR>&gt; &gt; is the ideal shape, precisely because it minimizes hull area.&nbsp; Perhaps a<BR>&gt; &gt; minor decrease in armor thickness will allow you to maintain the<BR>&gt; &gt; performance of the _Tigress_-class.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Note that AuricTech's design bureau prefers non-sphere configurations<BR>&gt; &gt; for warships (especially Wedge and Rounded Cylinder hullforms), because<BR>&gt; &gt; such hull configurations both allow longer spinal mounts and reduce<BR>&gt; &gt; meson gun effectiveness (under HG2).&nbsp; We at AuricTech believe that the<BR>&gt; &gt; tradeoffs between armor mass, deadlier spinal mounts and reduced<BR>&gt; &gt; vulnerability to meson guns make non-sphere configurations worthwhile.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ever since I tried to make a nice big warship using FFS1 way back when I've<BR>&gt;&nbsp; been a beliver in long thin hulls. Sure you get less armour, but you get<BR>&gt; more&nbsp; surface area for drives, and the whole ship can be smaller for the<BR>&gt; same spinal&nbsp; PAW. Seems like a bargain to me.<BR><BR>Not to mention that various rulesets notwithstanding, it isn't actually <BR>necessary to give a vehicle equal armor on all faces.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:09:40 -0400<BR>From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----<BR>Hash: SHA1<BR><BR>At 11:13 PM 10/3/00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2000 15:33:11 PST<BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>It's no more "weird" than finding out that heavy objects and light ones<BR>&gt;fall at the same speed (which is also counter intuitive), instead of at<BR>&gt;different ones.<BR><BR>This straight-up example always kind of bothered me.&nbsp; Say you have three <BR>objects, one of planetary density and mass (say, Earth) and two much, much <BR>smaller objects, both about the size of baseballs or cricket balls, one <BR>lead and the other rubber.&nbsp; Wouldn't the gravitational attraction between <BR>the planet and the lead cricket ball be greater than that between that of <BR>the planet and the rubber cricket ball? however miniscule that attraction <BR>might be?&nbsp; And wouldn't that minutely greater attraction result in minutely <BR>greater accelleration as the object 'drops?'<BR><BR>Granted, this is a case where we're talking about a difference of <BR>'extremely large values of zero,' but is it a valid point?<BR><BR>Cheers<BR>- - ---<BR>==============================================================<BR>Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com<BR>System Administrator&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Current PGPKey Fingerprint (18 July 2000)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; E20D 4E41 533E AAD0 60B8&nbsp; 66DD 2908 F6E4 923F C225<BR>Public Key: http://www.waypointcentral.net/Team/Jonathan/Keys/<BR>- - ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "As above, so below; as below, so above."<BR><BR>- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR>Version: PGPfreeware 6.5.3 for non-commercial use &lt;http://www.pgp.com&gt;<BR><BR>iQA/AwUBOdu4sykI9uSSP8IlEQI9iwCfaUF7y3CQdugGHauo/smzVAg1gK8AoPda<BR>p0HW4IrBuvK5Q0BtwuHTDtrh<BR>=w/nK<BR>- -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 16:26:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott writes:<BR>&gt; This straight-up example always kind of bothered me.&nbsp; Say you have three <BR>&gt; objects, one of planetary density and mass (say, Earth) and two much, much <BR>&gt; smaller objects, both about the size of baseballs or cricket balls, one <BR>&gt; lead and the other rubber.&nbsp; Wouldn't the gravitational attraction between <BR>&gt; the planet and the lead cricket ball be greater than that between that of <BR>&gt; the planet and the rubber cricket ball? however miniscule that attraction <BR>&gt; might be?&nbsp; And wouldn't that minutely greater attraction result in minutely<BR>&gt;&nbsp; greater accelleration as the object 'drops?'<BR><BR>If the lead cricket ball masses twice as much, the attraction will be twice as<BR>great.&nbsp; There will be no difference in how fast the object falls towards the<BR>earth.<BR><BR>However, there will be a difference in how fast the earth falls towards the <BR>object, so yes, there will be a minute (1/10^24 or so) difference in apparent<BR>acceleration ;)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:06:16 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>FYI<BR><BR>Just for a lark, I've been working out the various standard Imperial<BR>weapons and facilities for TNE.&nbsp; So far, I've designed all the 100- and<BR>50-ton meson gun and particle accelerator bays (I used a spreadsheet<BR>and maximized the discharge energy for each tech level for each bay. <BR>In other words, bay weapons of these types at this tech level just<BR>don't get any more lethal).&nbsp; I also designed the J, N, R and T Meson<BR>Guns.&nbsp; For the tunnel length for the latter, I worked out the lengths<BR>of all the ships in Supplement 9: Fighting Ships, and used the shortest<BR>ship mounting that weapon as the tunnel length.&nbsp; For discharge energy,<BR>I opted that these designs had to match exactly the displacement<BR>tonnage listed in Book 5: High Guard and reverse engineered the<BR>puppies.&nbsp; I opted against a different spinal mount for each individual<BR>class of ship for two reasons -- one, I think the Imperium would<BR>standardize a lot of shipbuilding elements, including armament, and<BR>two, it would drive me nuts.<BR><BR>Tomorrow I think I'll tackle some of the particle accelerator spinal<BR>mounts.&nbsp; Using a clue from Azhanti High Lightning (the part about<BR>shoe-horning in the meson gun because it was the same size as the<BR>original particle accelerator, I'll just use the tunnel lengths<BR>determined for the meson guns.&nbsp; Everything else should just fall into<BR>place.<BR><BR>BTW, I've also predesigned a standard 50-ton launch tube, hangar and<BR>launch port.<BR><BR>Of course, I'll happily share my handiwork with any of y'all<BR>interested.&nbsp; It's in Word 97 format now if y'all are interested.&nbsp; <BR><BR>If y'all haven't figured it out yet, I'm thinking about tackling some<BR>of the ships in Supplement 9 myself -- notably the Gionetti and<BR>possibly the Fleet Carrier.<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:15:28 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Not to mention that various rulesets notwithstanding, it isn't actually<BR>&gt; necessary to give a vehicle equal armor on all faces.<BR><BR>OTOH, for a starship fighting in 3-D space, it can be useful to have<BR>armor fairly evenly distributed.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:10:13 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Paul Harris wrote:<BR>&gt;I would like to see the Tigress maintain its Jump-4 Man-6 capability.<BR>&gt;Good Luck!<BR><BR>And don't forget that the canon (Supp 9) Tigress only has enough fuel for J-3...<BR>one of the canonical places where drop tanks are slipped in, under the counter<BR>...<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 17:34:09 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>John Groth writes:<BR>&gt; Anthony Jackson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Not to mention that various rulesets notwithstanding, it isn't actually<BR>&gt; &gt; necessary to give a vehicle equal armor on all faces.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; OTOH, for a starship fighting in 3-D space, it can be useful to have<BR>&gt; armor fairly evenly distributed.<BR><BR>Only if it gets surprised, or is fighting multiple scattered opponents.&nbsp; Most<BR>of the time, the ideal design will be one heavily armored face and the <BR>remaining lightly armored.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 17:47:42<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>At 01:03 PM 10/4/2000 CEST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Or use some kind of a checksum algorithm like the ones used by banks or the <BR>&gt;Swedish ID number.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Mine ID number is 780629-8514, where the 6th first is date of birth and the <BR>&gt;7th and 8th is the hospital your where born in, the 9th is odd for boys even <BR>&gt;for girls and the last digit is the checksum.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If one number is entered wrong this is detected by the checksum. It can also <BR>&gt;detect most error involving more then one digit.<BR><BR>Well, this would work, but you miss the point.<BR><BR>Supply screw-ups are great adventure seeds.&nbsp; Either as a push (you are in<BR>combat, and need to find out where your supplies have gone) or as a pull<BR>(trying to get through a time of meager or inccorect supplies)&nbsp; MASH used<BR>that second theme several times.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:50:30 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; High Guard (Book 5) P31. 1 dton of capacitor holds 36 EP (9000 MW),<BR>&gt;&gt; cost MCr 4. The jump drive contains 0.5% * ship Mass * jump number of<BR>&gt;&gt; capacitors.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I bet that's 9000 MJ, not MW.<BR><BR>Sorry, Leonard, but for once you are wrong (!) - it really _is_ "megawatts".<BR><BR>1 EP = 250 MW (Striker).<BR><BR>Megajoules were introduced in TNE, as the authors became more conversant with<BR>metric and realised they had been talking about the wrong thing. ;-)&nbsp; Energy is<BR>measured in joules, power is measured in watts.<BR><BR>BTW, "9000 MW" is also the reason that people complain that ship hulls should<BR>_melt_ with that much power being generated inside them...<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3121<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 5 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3122<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>RE: Relativity<BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR>Graphic Help<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>linux software (it's about time)<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Paging Jesse DeGraff<BR>RE: Plea for font help!<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:24:39 -0700 <BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt;From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott writes:<BR>&gt;&gt; This straight-up example always kind of bothered me.&nbsp; Say you have three <BR>&gt;&gt; objects, one of planetary density and mass (say, Earth) and two much,<BR>much <BR>&gt;&gt; smaller objects, both about the size of baseballs or cricket balls, one <BR>&gt;&gt; lead and the other rubber.&nbsp; Wouldn't the gravitational attraction between<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; the planet and the lead cricket ball be greater than that between that of<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; the planet and the rubber cricket ball? however miniscule that attraction<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; might be?&nbsp; And wouldn't that minutely greater attraction result in<BR>minutely<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; greater accelleration as the object 'drops?'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If the lead cricket ball masses twice as much, the attraction will be twice<BR>as<BR>&gt;great.&nbsp; There will be no difference in how fast the object falls towards<BR>the<BR>&gt;earth.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; What Mr. Jackson was saying, in case it was not clear, that the<BR>force due to gravity on the cricket balls is directly proportional to the<BR>mass of the ball (F=(GmM)/r^2 if memory serves me correctly).&nbsp; Twice the<BR>mass, twice the force.&nbsp; However, the _acceleration_ that the force produces<BR>is _also_ proportional to the mass - but inversely.&nbsp; F=ma, which means<BR>a=F/m.&nbsp; The two equations cancel each other out, producing the same<BR>acceleration.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; If you want some _real_ fun with physics, imagine what the<BR>gravitational acceleration would be on the inside of the earth if it were a<BR>giant hollow ball ;o)&nbsp; We took a whole class session doing that and could<BR>barely believe the result.&nbsp; Way counterintuitive.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- -------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - (you know the drill)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:33:22 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>From: Douglas E. Berry &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Supply screw-ups are great adventure seeds.&nbsp; Either as a push (you are in<BR>&gt;combat, and need to find out where your supplies have gone) or as a pull<BR>&gt;(trying to get through a time of meager or inccorect supplies)&nbsp; MASH used<BR>&gt;that second theme several times.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; One of the adventure seeds I have used are durring the 5FW, quite a few<BR>nuclear missiles meant for a ship, that was destroyed in the fighting, were<BR>cached on an asteroid.&nbsp; Now, the supply officer who had them cached there<BR>has hired the party to retieve them for him.&nbsp; But, you also have the IN, the<BR>ISS, INI, the Sector Navy, several Sub-Sector &amp; Planetary Navies, Mercs,<BR>Arms Dealers, Pirates, &amp; Terrorists after them.&nbsp; Now, you can run this as<BR>active service members of the IN/INI are trying to recover the warheads, as<BR>they are their property.&nbsp; Of course the ISS might want to do it, either with<BR>the IN/INI or as a ploy to shame the IN/INI.&nbsp; The Sector Navy might want<BR>them as they are TL15 Missiles, the same for the Sub-Sector &amp; Planetary<BR>Navies, but IIRC Sub-Sector &amp; Planetary Navies are not allowed Nukes, unless<BR>it is a time of war &amp; this can provide them with a massive "club", just in<BR>case.&nbsp; Of course Mercs will want them, just in case.&nbsp; Arms Dealers would<BR>want to sell them.&nbsp; Pirates cannot get a hold of them, but it would provide<BR>them with firepower to be able to take on the IN.&nbsp; And, of course Terrorists<BR>could always use them to nuke a city or two.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:12:49 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Rodney Basler [mailto:rgb@odetics.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, 5 October 2000 12:25<BR><BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; If you want some _real_ fun with physics, imagine what the<BR>&gt; gravitational acceleration would be on the inside of the <BR>&gt; earth if it were a<BR>&gt; giant hollow ball ;o)&nbsp; We took a whole class session doing <BR>&gt; that and could<BR>&gt; barely believe the result.&nbsp; Way counterintuitive.<BR><BR>Oh come on.... don't keep me in suspense! Tell me!<BR><BR><BR>Paul Harris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 19:27:29 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>I'd be very interested in seeing the work, if you don't mind.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Gerry Harris" &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2000 5:06 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR><BR>&gt; FYI<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just for a lark, I've been working out the various standard Imperial<BR>&gt; weapons and facilities for TNE.&nbsp; So far, I've designed all the 100- and<BR>&gt; 50-ton meson gun and particle accelerator bays (I used a spreadsheet<BR>&gt; and maximized the discharge energy for each tech level for each bay.<BR>&gt; In other words, bay weapons of these types at this tech level just<BR>&gt; don't get any more lethal).&nbsp; I also designed the J, N, R and T Meson<BR>&gt; Guns.&nbsp; For the tunnel length for the latter, I worked out the lengths<BR>&gt; of all the ships in Supplement 9: Fighting Ships, and used the shortest<BR>&gt; ship mounting that weapon as the tunnel length.&nbsp; For discharge energy,<BR>&gt; I opted that these designs had to match exactly the displacement<BR>&gt; tonnage listed in Book 5: High Guard and reverse engineered the<BR>&gt; puppies.&nbsp; I opted against a different spinal mount for each individual<BR>&gt; class of ship for two reasons -- one, I think the Imperium would<BR>&gt; standardize a lot of shipbuilding elements, including armament, and<BR>&gt; two, it would drive me nuts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Tomorrow I think I'll tackle some of the particle accelerator spinal<BR>&gt; mounts.&nbsp; Using a clue from Azhanti High Lightning (the part about<BR>&gt; shoe-horning in the meson gun because it was the same size as the<BR>&gt; original particle accelerator, I'll just use the tunnel lengths<BR>&gt; determined for the meson guns.&nbsp; Everything else should just fall into<BR>&gt; place.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; BTW, I've also predesigned a standard 50-ton launch tube, hangar and<BR>&gt; launch port.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Of course, I'll happily share my handiwork with any of y'all<BR>&gt; interested.&nbsp; It's in Word 97 format now if y'all are interested.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If y'all haven't figured it out yet, I'm thinking about tackling some<BR>&gt; of the ships in Supplement 9 myself -- notably the Gionetti and<BR>&gt; possibly the Fleet Carrier.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =====<BR>&gt; Gerry Harris<BR>&gt;<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>&gt; ther Traveller - http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>&gt; Soldier's Companion -<BR>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>&gt;<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>&gt; "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act<BR>3, Scene 1<BR>&gt;<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; __________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>&gt; http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:37:13 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR><BR>I have always wondered about Planetary Navy level of organisation and<BR>what it does. The implication is that the planetary navy is part of the<BR>Imperial Navy Organisation, but who actually controls it? <BR><BR>Can Local planetary Leaders make descisions on the disposition of the<BR>Planetary Navy, or are these descisions left to the Imperial Navy<BR>Command structure? <BR>Can the planetary navy own and use Nuclear Missiles without violating<BR>the Imperial Rules of War? Could sections of the Planetary Navy be used<BR>to help put down Internal descent, or participate in Popular uprisings?<BR>How would the Imperial Navy view this sort of thing?<BR><BR>This is something I have always found a little confusing. Why would a<BR>Planetary Government pay Taxes to the Imperium to maintain an imperial<BR>navy which they have no effective control over (which I see as<BR>reasonable under the circumstances), and then outlay additional<BR>expenditure on a Planetary Navy, which they may not have effective<BR>control over!<BR><BR>Your opinions will be gratefully welcome!<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- ----------------<BR>Paul Harris<BR>Dytech Solutions<BR>Ph: (03) 6224 4116<BR>Fax: (03) 6224 4117<BR>Mob: 0419 880 248<BR>Email: paul.harris@dytech.com.au<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>- ----------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 22:15:56 -0500<BR>From: "Thomas Vickers" &lt;redroach@flex.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Graphic Help<BR><BR>Does anyone have a standard deckplan symbol gif out there that I can cut and<BR>paste from when making deckplans?<BR><BR>TV<BR>- ------------------------<BR>"Never apologize, never explain."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hunter S. Thompson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:32:07 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 19:09:40 -0400<BR>&gt; From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;It's no more "weird" than finding out that heavy objects and light ones<BR>&gt; &gt;fall at the same speed (which is also counter intuitive), instead of at<BR>&gt; &gt;different ones.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This straight-up example always kind of bothered me.&nbsp; Say you have three<BR>&gt; objects, one of planetary density and mass (say, Earth) and two much,<BR>&gt; much smaller objects, both about the size of baseballs or cricket balls,<BR>&gt; one lead and the other rubber.&nbsp; Wouldn't the gravitational attraction<BR>&gt; between the planet and the lead cricket ball be greater than that<BR>&gt; between that of the planet and the rubber cricket ball? however<BR>&gt; miniscule that attraction might be?&nbsp; And wouldn't that minutely greater<BR>&gt; attraction result in minutely greater accelleration as the object<BR>&gt; 'drops?'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Granted, this is a case where we're talking about a difference of <BR>&gt; 'extremely large values of zero,' but is it a valid point?<BR><BR>Entirely valid, and indeed critical for understanding why they accelerate<BR>toward Earth at the same rate.&nbsp; Observe...<BR><BR>Call the mass of the Earth M, and the mass of one of your test objects<BR>(either one, we'll see it doesn't matter (pardon the pun)) m.&nbsp; Newton told<BR>us that<BR><BR>&nbsp; F = GMm/r^2<BR><BR>That is, the force experienced by both objects is proportional to the<BR>product of their masses divided by the square of the distance between<BR>them.&nbsp; So, let's see how one of the balls responds to this force.&nbsp; Again,<BR>Newton tells us<BR><BR>&nbsp; F = ma<BR><BR>which we may rearrange to<BR><BR>&nbsp; a = F/m<BR><BR>That is, the acceleration of the ball is proportional to the force<BR>exterted on it, divided by its mass.&nbsp; Now, plug the gravitation equation<BR>for force above into the equation for acceleration:<BR><BR>&nbsp; a = GMm/mr^2<BR><BR>Since m appears in numerator and denominator, we can eliminate it:<BR><BR>&nbsp; a = GM/r^2<BR><BR>...and thus show that the acceleration of the ball is entirely independent<BR>of its mass, and indeed depends only on the mass attracting it and the<BR>distance between the two objects.<BR><BR>Putting it in more descriptive terms, the inertial resistance to<BR>acceleration is exactly balanced by the gravitational increase in force<BR>for each possible object.<BR><BR>This has always been one of my favorite physics derivations.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2000 22:59:40 -0500<BR>From: Mark A Nordstrand &lt;markn@visi.com&gt;<BR>Subject: linux software (it's about time)<BR><BR>Announcing version 0.10.0 of the software formally known <BR>as Mark's Traveller Utilities for linux.&nbsp; As of this release, <BR>it has been renamed to just MTU.&nbsp; I've written and rewritten<BR>an explanation of this, but I suspect most people reading <BR>here can figure it out.<BR><BR>Available at http://www.visi.com/~markn/index.html and is <BR>currently composed of:<BR><BR>dice - quick-n-dirty dice hack<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rolls dice.&nbsp; Whoopdy-do.&nbsp; Mostly written to find out <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; how to use the widgets...<BR>enc_tbl - generate encounter tables<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Given a UWP, will generate a single animal encounter, an <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; encounter table for a particular terrain, or tables for <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; all terrains.&nbsp; Formats output for CT, MT, TNE, and T4 in <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; either plain text or postscript.<BR>mtu - main menuing program<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Drives individual "universes."&nbsp; In essence, allows <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; collections of sector files to be grouped together.&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Outputs dot maps to post-script or a graphics format.<BR>sector - view and print sectors (and more)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Takes a sector file and formats a sector map with location, <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; name, UWP, gas giant presence, base and allegiance coding.&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Also allows addition of color borders and routes.&nbsp; Outputs <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; any range of worlds to postscript or a graphics format.<BR>sysgen - generate star systems<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Allows full automatic generation or manual intervention of <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Book 6 star system generation.<BR>system - view edit and print star systems<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Edits a file from sysgen.&nbsp; Presents orbits in a tree like <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; manner and as concentric circles.&nbsp; Outputs to postscript <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; or a graphics format.<BR>word - generate random words<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Based on the tables presented in the Alien Modules (I <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; believe).&nbsp; Currently includes data files for droyne, <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; trokh, zhodani, gvegh, and vilani.&nbsp; Others are possible.<BR>world - generate and print world details<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rapidly (re)generates WBH type data.&nbsp; Allows intervention <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for terra forming and rotational period.<BR><BR>Also included are a collection of programs for converting <BR>the useful data files (for MTU) from Galactic.&nbsp; And, yes, <BR>the screenshots look nice, but take a look at the postscript<BR>output available at the bottom of the screenshots page.<BR><BR>Now that that is out of the way, I'm off to see if I can make <BR>the crappy Tamiya Sdkfz 251c/1 look like a half way reasonable <BR>251/17.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Mark<BR><BR>"Any sufficiently adverse technology is indistinguishable from<BR>Microsoft."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:15:07 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; However, endless soul-searching about exactly *how* 'Game Mechanic X'<BR>&gt; works is, IMHO, often more detrimental to an enjoyable game than just<BR>&gt; accepting it.<BR><BR>Sure. But I like poking at things to see if I can come up with some<BR>"neat" trick. Like the conditions required to pull off a minor bit of<BR>time travel. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:17:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; There's no such thing as a "standing start". Velocity is *relative*.<BR>&gt;&gt; So while you may be at rest with respect to something, you are<BR>&gt;&gt; moving like a bat out of hell relative to something else.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Right now you are moving at around 40 km/sec with respect to the Sun<BR>&gt;&gt; for example.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So, jump drive astrogation is not just a matter of feeding in<BR>&gt; coordinates, but correcting for relative velocities...... no... this<BR>&gt; implies that a good enough Astrogation task can take you from standing<BR>&gt; still relative to one system, to near c speeds in another. An<BR>&gt; interesting idea that violates canon....<BR><BR>No, this wouldn't allow near c speeds unless the two systems are moving<BR>at that sort of speed relative to each other.<BR><BR>&gt; Still, I just might use this as a misjump result in future.....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Yes, you are in the right system, but your velocity is 99 percent the<BR>&gt; speed of light, you have missed the mainworld, but only have eight<BR>&gt; minutes to dodge the star!"<BR><BR>No, at 99% of c they have a *lot* less time than that. As *they*<BR>measure distance, the mainworld is only 67 light seconds from the star...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:39:47 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;"Fleet Sergeant, what happened?"<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;"Well sir, we needed to order 80 new med packs, which have the ISCN<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;179-GUS3-73590.&nbsp; But somehow, it got twisted into 719-GUS3-73590, and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;supply acted on that request."<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Which is why it's a good idea to have things set up the way the<BR>&gt;&gt;Canadian and UK Postal codes are. They use alternating number/letter<BR>&gt;&gt;patterns so that if you transpose things, you get not merely a bad<BR>&gt;&gt;code, but an *obviously* bad one.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Or use some kind of a checksum algorithm like the ones used by banks or the <BR>&gt; Swedish ID number.<BR><BR>Checksums can catch changed digits, they can't catch transposed digits.<BR><BR>&gt; Mine ID number is 780629-8514, where the 6th first is date of birth and the <BR>&gt; 7th and 8th is the hospital your where born in, the 9th is odd for boys even <BR>&gt; for girls and the last digit is the checksum.<BR><BR>And if a hospital has more than 10 children born on a given day,<BR>or more than 5 boys or 5 girls for that matter, how do they assign the<BR>ninth digit?<BR><BR>&gt; If one number is entered wrong this is detected by the checksum. It can also <BR>&gt; detect most error involving more then one digit.<BR><BR>But it won't detect it if you enter 58 instead of 85 for the hospital.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:48:21 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Wed, 4 Oct 2000, Patrik Holmstr=F6m wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Or use some kind of a checksum algorithm like the ones used by banks<BR>&gt;&gt; or the Swedish ID number.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Mine ID number is 780629-8514, where the 6th first is date of birth<BR>&gt;&gt; and the 7th and 8th is the hospital your where born in, the 9th is<BR>&gt;&gt; odd for boys even for girls and the last digit is the checksum.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; If one number is entered wrong this is detected by the checksum. It<BR>&gt;&gt; can also detect most error involving more then one digit.<BR><BR>&gt; Ouch! I sure hope that system isn't used in allegedly secure financial<BR>&gt; transactions, such as the SSN is (mis) used here in the States. Such a<BR>&gt; simple number generation systems a) makes it vastly simpler for identity<BR>&gt; theft to occur (since it is likely that ALL of that data is public<BR>&gt; information... most birth records are) and b) it isn't unique...every male<BR>&gt; child born that day in a busy hospital will have the same ID number.<BR><BR>No, he just says that the digit for a boy must be odd. So they can<BR>handle up to 5 boys (1, 3, 5, 7 &amp; 9) and 5 girls (0, 2, 4, 6, 8) on a<BR>given day.<BR><BR>But it's still a remarkably poor design. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:12:30 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; No way!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Since the asteroid is moving at near-c speeds relative to the ship, it <BR>&gt; should also suffer the same time dilation.<BR><BR>It does. According the folks on the ship, their clocks are fine and the<BR>ones on the asteroid are running slow.<BR><BR>&gt; This would apply to the rest of the universe. So, time would pass<BR>&gt; normally inside and out side of the ship.<BR><BR>Nope. *Both* insist that it's the *other* whose clocks are running<BR>slow. And can "prove" it. But as long as they are moving relative to<BR>each other, it doesn't matter. Each has a consistent set of<BR>observations.<BR><BR>&gt; Ditto for all the other effects. So, velocity would make _no difference <BR>&gt; whatsoever_. And relativity, for all its proven-ness, would be meaningless.<BR><BR>Sorry, but we've got clocks accurate enough to measure the time<BR>dilation in an *airplane*. And it checks out. Likewise, the clocks on<BR>the GPS satellites are doing *exactly* what relativity says they<BR>should. If they weren't GPS wouldn't work.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:18:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; It's no more "weird" than finding out that heavy objects and light ones<BR>&gt;&gt;fall at the same speed (which is also counter intuitive), instead of at<BR>&gt;&gt;different ones.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This straight-up example always kind of bothered me.&nbsp; Say you have three <BR>&gt; objects, one of planetary density and mass (say, Earth) and two much, much <BR>&gt; smaller objects, both about the size of baseballs or cricket balls, one <BR>&gt; lead and the other rubber.&nbsp; Wouldn't the gravitational attraction between <BR>&gt; the planet and the lead cricket ball be greater than that between that of <BR>&gt; the planet and the rubber cricket ball? however miniscule that attraction <BR>&gt; might be?&nbsp; And wouldn't that minutely greater attraction result in minutely <BR>&gt; greater accelleration as the object 'drops?'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Granted, this is a case where we're talking about a difference of <BR>&gt; 'extremely large values of zero,' but is it a valid point?<BR><BR>Nope. Two equations at work:<BR><BR>F = m * A<BR>F = G * M * m / R^2<BR><BR>F is the force exerted. <BR>m is the mass of the ball<BR>M is the mass of Earth<BR>G is the gravitational constant<BR>R is the distance from the center of Earth<BR><BR>So, we re-arrange the equations:<BR><BR>m * A = G * M * m / R^2<BR><BR>divide both sides by m<BR><BR>A = G * M / R^2<BR><BR>So no matter what the mass (within reason) the acceleration is the<BR>same. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:09:37 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Paging Jesse DeGraff<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Loren petitioned:<BR>&gt;Jesee, please get in touch with Phil (phil@sjgames.com) ASAP.<BR><BR>Er, didn't Jesse go on leave? He certainly changed employers and thus _one_ of<BR>his email addresses (I believe his home one is still the same).<BR><BR>From memory, he said he would check his email every few days. Failing that,<BR>contact Doug Berry or Mark Cook and see if they have a home phone or mobile<BR>number.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 18:19:33 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Plea for font help!<BR><BR>Timothy Collinson wrote :<BR>&gt; Wow!&nbsp; The old Trigan Empire.&nbsp; What a blast from the past!&nbsp; I almost<BR>&gt; forgotten all about it.&nbsp; I wonder if you could buy the strip in<BR>&gt; book format somewhere?<BR><BR>Yes, you can. A freind of mine has hardcover reprints of the first two major<BR>storylines.<BR>I, on the other hand, have quite a few originals from "Look &amp; Learn"<BR>magazine.<BR><BR>&gt; Be fun to see it again or maybe not if it hasn't aged well.<BR><BR>It hasn't aged as badly as Eagle's "Dan Dare" (the original, not the pale<BR>imitation from the late 70's) but there is the inherent sexism and racism of<BR>it's age to deal with, plus the same lack of scientific knowledge of the<BR>writers.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:27:21 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>On 4 Oct 00, at 20:39, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Checksums can catch changed digits, they can't catch transposed digits.<BR><BR>Sure they can. Take the sum of the even digits and multiply by 3 (this is <BR>value A), then take the sum of the odd digits and subtract it from A. This <BR>gives you a check digit that will catch transpositions (its how bar codes <BR>work)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:24:01 +0200<BR>From: "Pedro Lopez" &lt;lopez@mailme.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C02EB6.60F88840<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>Im just curious!<BR><BR>I=B4ve played TNE for about 6 years, and I havent yet played CT, MT, t4 =<BR>or GT. Do any of you have the slightest idea of how many who plays TNE =<BR>compared to those who play the other games?=20<BR><BR>And better: All TNE-players: Why are you playing TNE? All I hear from =<BR>CT, MT, T4, GT-players is one big complaint...F****** TNE RUINS OUR =<BR>UNIVERSE!!!!!<BR><BR>Pedro Lopez<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C02EB6.60F88840<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =<BR>http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3500" name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Im just curious!</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>I=B4ve played TNE for about 6 years, =<BR>and I havent yet=20<BR>played CT, MT, t4 or GT. Do any of you have the slightest idea of how =<BR>many who=20<BR>plays TNE compared to those who play the other games? </FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>And better: All TNE-players: Why are =<BR>you playing=20<BR>TNE? All I hear from CT, MT, T4, GT-players is one big =<BR>complaint...F******=20<BR>&lt;EM&gt;TNE&lt;/EM&gt; RUINS OUR UNIVERSE!!!!!</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Pedro Lopez</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_003E_01C02EB6.60F88840--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu,&nbsp; 5 Oct 2000 09:56:15 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: RCID - Alun Moon &lt;alun.moon@newcastle.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:<BR>&gt; On 4 Oct 00, at 20:39, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Checksums can catch changed digits, they can't catch transposed digits.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sure they can. Take the sum of the even digits and multiply by 3 (this is <BR>&gt; value A), then take the sum of the odd digits and subtract it from A. This <BR>&gt; gives you a check digit that will catch transpositions (its how bar codes <BR>&gt; work)<BR><BR>A CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check) would catch transposed and changed<BR>digits.&nbsp; The algorithum is a little more complicated though.<BR><BR><BR>Alun<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd04.mx.aol.com (rly-zd04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.228]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 05:12:38 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com ([204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 05:12:08 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id EAA68281;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:57:12 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:55:23 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id EAA68218<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:55:23 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 04:55:23 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010050855.EAA68218@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD>10/5/00 6:54:41 AM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 5 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3123<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR>Introduction<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR>RE: Relativity<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR>RE: gravity<BR>Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR>Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR>RE: planetary navies<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 01:59:58 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C02E6F.F71E9CC0<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>Well, I have played all five of the games, and their timelines in one =<BR>form or another. I personally enjoy TNE for a number of reasons.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. A return to the "Long Night" period, though not entirely the =<BR>situations are somewhat comparable. The lack of a domineering =<BR>interstellar society allows for unique role playing opportunities.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. The world building theme of the Reformation Coalition is enticing =<BR>in and of itself, but reach excellence when blended by the frontiersman =<BR>wagon-train attitude of the Star Vikings.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 3. The Regency provides for a safe haven to many more traditional =<BR>Traveller players and themes.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 4. Virus provides a rare but omnipresent (That is, Virus idealy =<BR>provides) threat, as well as a clear reminder of the costs of victory by =<BR>any means.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; However, I dislike TNE for one profound reason: I like the Imperium. =<BR>The scale of CT, and to a much lesser extent that of MT, provided for a =<BR>sense of epic adventure unmatched among RPGs since, in my opinion =<BR>anyways.<BR><BR>Jeff<BR>&nbsp; ----- Original Message -----=20<BR>&nbsp; From: Pedro Lopez=20<BR>&nbsp; To: traveller@lists.ient.com=20<BR>&nbsp; Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 1:24 AM<BR>&nbsp; Subject: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; Im just curious!<BR><BR>&nbsp; I=B4ve played TNE for about 6 years, and I havent yet played CT, MT, =<BR>t4 or GT. Do any of you have the slightest idea of how many who plays =<BR>TNE compared to those who play the other games?=20<BR><BR>&nbsp; And better: All TNE-players: Why are you playing TNE? All I hear from =<BR>CT, MT, T4, GT-players is one big complaint...F****** TNE RUINS OUR =<BR>UNIVERSE!!!!!<BR><BR>&nbsp; Pedro Lopez<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C02E6F.F71E9CC0<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =<BR>charset=3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Well, I have played all five of the =<BR>games, and=20<BR>their timelines in one form or another. I personally enjoy TNE for a =<BR>number of=20<BR>reasons.</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; 1. A return to the =<BR>"Long Night"=20<BR>period, though not entirely the situations are somewhat comparable. The =<BR>lack of=20<BR>a domineering interstellar society allows for unique role playing=20<BR>opportunities.</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; 2. The world =<BR>building theme of=20<BR>the Reformation Coalition is enticing in and of itself, but reach =<BR>excellence=20<BR>when blended by the frontiersman wagon-train attitude of the Star=20<BR>Vikings.</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; 3. The Regency =<BR>provides for a=20<BR>safe haven to many more traditional Traveller players and =<BR>themes.</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; 4. Virus provides a =<BR>rare but=20<BR>omnipresent (That is, Virus idealy provides) threat, as well as a clear =<BR>reminder=20<BR>of the costs of victory by any means.</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; However, I dislike =<BR>TNE&amp;nbsp;for=20<BR>one profound reason: I like the Imperium. The scale of CT, and to a much =<BR>lesser=20<BR>extent that of MT, provided for a sense of epic adventure unmatched =<BR>among RPGs=20<BR>since, in my opinion anyways.</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Jeff</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20<BR>style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =<BR>BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;----- Original Message ----- &lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV=20<BR>&nbsp; style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =<BR>black"&gt;<B>From:</B>=20<BR>&nbsp; <A href='http://3d"mailto:lopez@mailme.dk"/' title='http://3d"mailto:lopez@mailme.dk"/'>Pedro =<BR>Lopez</A> &lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;<B>To:</B> <A ="<BR">title=3Dtraveller@lists.ient.com=20<BR>href=3D"mailto:traveller@lists.ient.com"&gt;traveller@lists.ient.com</A> =<BR>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;<B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 05, =<BR>2000 1:24=20<BR>&nbsp; AM&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;<B>Subject:</B> Who plays =<BR>what?!?!?!?&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Im just curious!</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>I=B4ve played TNE for about 6 years, =<BR>and I havent=20<BR>&nbsp; yet played CT, MT, t4 or GT. Do any of you have the slightest idea of =<BR>how many=20<BR>&nbsp; who plays TNE compared to those who play the other games? =<BR></FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>And better: All TNE-players: Why are =<BR>you playing=20<BR>&nbsp; TNE? All I hear from CT, MT, T4, GT-players is one big =<BR>complaint...F******=20<BR>&nbsp; &lt;EM&gt;TNE&lt;/EM&gt; RUINS OUR UNIVERSE!!!!!</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Pedro =<BR>Lopez</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0014_01C02E6F.F71E9CC0--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu,&nbsp; 5 Oct 2000 10:06:51 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: RCID - Alun Moon &lt;alun.moon@newcastle.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; So, jump drive astrogation is not just a matter of feeding in<BR>&gt; &gt; coordinates, but correcting for relative velocities...... no... this<BR>&gt; &gt; implies that a good enough Astrogation task can take you from standing<BR>&gt; &gt; still relative to one system, to near c speeds in another. An<BR>&gt; &gt; interesting idea that violates canon....<BR><BR>I missed the beginning of this, but<BR><BR>Some time ago BMT (Before Mega Traveller) in the days of CT and LBBs.<BR><BR>In the JTAS article (I'll dig out the reference if anyone's interested<BR>(I think it was by Marc Miller himself)<BR><BR>The physics of Jump space was described as conserving momentum.&nbsp; Your<BR>velocity, measured say from the galactic centre, remains constant.<BR>The astrogation task is mainly setting your velocity relative to your<BR>destination before jumping.<BR><BR>There is some scope for allowing jump calculations to adjust your<BR>vector, but nothing like the ammounts needed to get to near c, the<BR>energy input would be huge.<BR><BR>Alun<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:17:06 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>I use the TNE rules, because they are the same rules for T2K and Dark<BR>Conspiracy.&nbsp; This lends itself to lots of crossovers, from weapons to<BR>cool psionic talents (and my holy grail of gaming -- the time travel<BR>story - if only I had the time!).<BR><BR>I've played most of the old JTAS Amber Zones using the TNE rules. <BR>Conversions were nothing as just about everything in CT is in TNE. <BR>Most of the equipment from version to version (at least CT, MT and TNE<BR>- - the three I own) stays the same mass and price wise, so there's not a<BR>lot of reworking between the systems.&nbsp; Game effects are pretty easy to<BR>hash out, too.<BR><BR><BR><BR>- --- Pedro Lopez &lt;lopez@mailme.dk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; Im just curious!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ive played TNE for about 6 years, and I havent yet played CT, MT, t4<BR>&gt; or GT. Do any of you have the slightest idea of how many who plays<BR>&gt; TNE compared to those who play the other games? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And better: All TNE-players: Why are you playing TNE? All I hear from<BR>&gt; CT, MT, T4, GT-players is one big complaint...F****** TNE RUINS OUR<BR>&gt; UNIVERSE!!!!!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Pedro Lopez<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 02:29:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR><BR>I've always thought of the subsector and planetary navies as being akin<BR>to the U.S. National Guard.&nbsp;&nbsp; They would be under the control of the<BR>local government and be available for everything from rescue work to<BR>putting down rebellions.&nbsp; In time of Imperium-threatening emergency,<BR>though, they would be nationalized (Imperialized?) and integrated into<BR>the existing Imperial command structure.<BR><BR>Of course, much like today's National Guard, the equipment and training<BR>used by each force would have to be Imperial standard and they'd have<BR>to occassionally train with the local Imperial fleet so that<BR>integration would go smoothly if it were ever needed.<BR><BR><BR>- --- Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; I have always wondered about Planetary Navy level of organisation and<BR>&gt; what it does. The implication is that the planetary navy is part of<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; Imperial Navy Organisation, but who actually controls it? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Can Local planetary Leaders make descisions on the disposition of the<BR>&gt; Planetary Navy, or are these descisions left to the Imperial Navy<BR>&gt; Command structure? <BR>&gt; Can the planetary navy own and use Nuclear Missiles without violating<BR>&gt; the Imperial Rules of War? Could sections of the Planetary Navy be<BR>&gt; used<BR>&gt; to help put down Internal descent, or participate in Popular<BR>&gt; uprisings?<BR>&gt; How would the Imperial Navy view this sort of thing?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This is something I have always found a little confusing. Why would a<BR>&gt; Planetary Government pay Taxes to the Imperium to maintain an<BR>&gt; imperial<BR>&gt; navy which they have no effective control over (which I see as<BR>&gt; reasonable under the circumstances), and then outlay additional<BR>&gt; expenditure on a Planetary Navy, which they may not have effective<BR>&gt; control over!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Your opinions will be gratefully welcome!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; ----------------<BR>&gt; Paul Harris<BR>&gt; Dytech Solutions<BR>&gt; Ph: (03) 6224 4116<BR>&gt; Fax: (03) 6224 4117<BR>&gt; Mob: 0419 880 248<BR>&gt; Email: paul.harris@dytech.com.au<BR>&gt;<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; ----------------<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:59:10 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Introduction<BR><BR>Hello everybody!<BR><BR>As a newbie on the list, I think it is proper to introduce myself.<BR><BR>My name is Mikko Parviainen, and I am from Finland. I have played<BR>Traveller one or two times, and never gamemastered, although I am about to<BR>start a campaign Very Soon Now.<BR><BR>I am more of a collector than a player, I own much of MegaTraveller, and<BR>some TNE and CT. GURPS and T4 aren't so interesting.<BR><BR>I play also other RPGs. Shadowrun and a joke AD&amp;D campaign are games that<BR>I gamemaster, and I play in various campaigns, ranging from fantasy to<BR>space opera to cyberpunk.<BR><BR>I am a student of space technology, a subset of electrical engineering, in<BR>Helsinki University of Technology. I also read much as a hobby, so I know<BR>something about astronomy and other subjects.<BR><BR>I have been reading TML on and off for some four years now, so I remember<BR>some near-c rocks and pirates. Perhaps I should once again construct an<BR>IMTU code...<BR><BR>Hopefully I can find some fine conversations here, now that I found the<BR>list. (Thanks to Stuar Squibb, who pointed me to lists.ient.com, and not<BR>lists.imagiconline.com)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 12:32:41 +0100<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>I play CT, though am open to improzising all over rules to complement MTU<BR>Mike<BR><BR>Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>ICQ#27333894<BR><BR>"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR><BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR><BR>I use the TNE rules, because they are the same rules for T2K and Dark<BR>Conspiracy.&nbsp; This lends itself to lots of crossovers, from weapons to<BR>cool psionic talents (and my holy grail of gaming -- the time travel<BR>story - if only I had the time!).<BR><BR>I've played most of the old JTAS Amber Zones using the TNE rules.<BR>Conversions were nothing as just about everything in CT is in TNE.<BR>Most of the equipment from version to version (at least CT, MT and TNE<BR>- - the three I own) stays the same mass and price wise, so there's not a<BR>lot of reworking between the systems.&nbsp; Game effects are pretty easy to<BR>hash out, too.<BR><BR><BR><BR>- --- Pedro Lopez &lt;lopez@mailme.dk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; Im just curious!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ive played TNE for about 6 years, and I havent yet played CT, MT, t4<BR>&gt; or GT. Do any of you have the slightest idea of how many who plays<BR>&gt; TNE compared to those who play the other games?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And better: All TNE-players: Why are you playing TNE? All I hear from<BR>&gt; CT, MT, T4, GT-players is one big complaint...F****** TNE RUINS OUR<BR>&gt; UNIVERSE!!!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Pedro Lopez<BR>&gt;<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>ther Traveller - http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>Soldier's Companion -<BR>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act<BR>3, Scene 1<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:56:13 +1000<BR>From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" &lt;kmhughes@dynamite.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR><BR>Design, functionality, great mechanics or atmosphere. These are great ways<BR>to assess an RPG. But what about smell? Come on campers, what's you most<BR>favourite smelling RPG?<BR><BR>I'll start.<BR><BR>Unearthed Arcana, 1st Edition AD&amp;D supplement. Having the good fortune to<BR>come across 4 or so copies in my life (other peoples obviously) they have<BR>all smelled mmmmmmm delicious.<BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>PS In assignment mode so just a tad nuts.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:21:57 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Douglas Sinclair &lt;dns@smtp.interlog.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Craig Berry writes:<BR>"...and thus show that the acceleration of the ball is entirely<BR>independent of its mass, and indeed depends only on the mass attracting it<BR>and the distance between the two objects."<BR><BR>Ah, yes, but what about the acceleration of the Earth? :)<BR>If you go to the full two-body problem, when the lead ball is dropped the<BR>Earth will accelerate towards it.&nbsp; An observer on the earth with a<BR>stop-watch will see that the lead ball takes less time to impact the Earth <BR>than the rubber ball, provided they are dropped one after the other.&nbsp; Of<BR>course, the Earth is no longer an inertial frame but few people care how<BR>fast dropped balls accelerate with respect to the fixed stars.<BR><BR>Doug Sinclair<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 13:17:22 +0000<BR>From: Phil Kitching &lt;postmark.design@btinternet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR><BR>At 14:37 05/10/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>&gt;I have always wondered about Planetary Navy level of organisation and<BR>&gt;what it does. The implication is that the planetary navy is part of the<BR>&gt;Imperial Navy Organisation, but who actually controls it? <BR><BR>I'd go with a simple "it depends"<BR><BR>Presumably the Imperium assumes that the local noble has control and<BR>responsibility for the fleet.<BR><BR>Some of these will hand over operational control to the nearest<BR>Grand Admiral (some might *be* the nearest Grand Admiral) others<BR>won't want the IN closer than their Oort cloud. (New Zealand and the USN<BR>comes to mind but I live in the UK, so this might not be accurate.)<BR><BR>Public opinion on the planet might affect what can be done - it might be<BR>harder for some worlds to justify a jump capable fleet since protecting<BR>other worlds is the subsector/sector/Imperial responsibility. Others<BR>might want to be able to investigate "ethically challenged" merchants<BR>in neighbouring systems.<BR><BR>Even when it comes to SDBs, some planets will accept castoff 50dT fighers<BR>and 30kdT battleriders at a discount, knowing that the Imperium might<BR>borrow them back in a crisis.<BR><BR>Other planets will build brand new 90dT fighters and oddly shaped 45kdT<BR>SDBs just so the Imperial carriers and tenders can't carry them off.<BR><BR>IIRC the Imperium objects to the *use* of nukes as weapons of mass<BR>destruction, not their ownership, so with the right sort of documents<BR>they can have civilian uses. For planetary navies to fire them at<BR>passing merchants might well be acceptable - dropping them on planets<BR>is not ok. However, I could easily accept an arguement against the<BR>Imperium allowing planetary navies to have nukes.<BR>Phil Kitching<BR>- --<BR>&nbsp; http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>&nbsp; Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>"Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:27:56 +0100 <BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 21:12:30 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; No way!!!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Since the asteroid is moving at near-c speeds relative to <BR>&gt; the ship, it <BR>&gt; &gt; should also suffer the same time dilation.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It does. According the folks on the ship, their clocks are <BR>&gt; fine and the<BR>&gt; ones on the asteroid are running slow.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; This would apply to the rest of the universe. So, time would pass<BR>&gt; &gt; normally inside and out side of the ship.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nope. *Both* insist that it's the *other* whose clocks are running<BR>&gt; slow. And can "prove" it. But as long as they are moving relative to<BR>&gt; each other, it doesn't matter. Each has a consistent set of<BR>&gt; observations.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Ditto for all the other effects. So, velocity would make <BR>&gt; _no difference <BR>&gt; &gt; whatsoever_. And relativity, for all its proven-ness, would <BR>&gt; be meaningless.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sorry, but we've got clocks accurate enough to measure the time<BR>&gt; dilation in an *airplane*. And it checks out. Likewise, the clocks on<BR>&gt; the GPS satellites are doing *exactly* what relativity says they<BR>&gt; should. If they weren't GPS wouldn't work.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - -- <BR><BR>First Things first: Hi everyone, I'm back from my vacation!.<BR>Relativity:<BR>I'm with Leonard on the time dilation issue. Strictly speaking, the Universe<BR>is a massively complex space-time event, and any kind of acceleration<BR>distorts both Space and Time relative to any other point (by which I mean<BR>any point outside of the same 'frame' ).<BR>If you take a rocket 100 m long and accelerate it towards C, not only do the<BR>clocks run slower (we all know this, no offence intended) but the rocket<BR>itself gets shorter...the actual space relative to the accel. axis is<BR>contracted.<BR>People on the rocket would no more see the rocket get shorter than they<BR>would notice time running slower. However, presumably if you look out of the<BR>window the universe seems to be running faster and everything get stretched<BR>out - a la Star Wars.<BR>Time dilation and space compression occur no matter how fast you are<BR>travelling...even if you are walking down the street it happens, but then it<BR>takes a signal a half second to get from you eyes into your consciousness,<BR>so let's not worry about that too much.<BR>Also, I'm quite fascinated by Spacelike events...if you represent distance<BR>on an X axis and time on a Y axis and plot C as a 45 degree angle both<BR>positively and negatively, you get a pair of 'Light cones'...anything above<BR>the X axis and below the line C represents a point of Space-Time such that<BR>travel to that point from the origin requires superluminal movement. If the<BR>origin point itself is moving along the event horizon of a sufficiently<BR>great gravitational field the light-cone is distorted sufficiently that <BR>it is possible to move, in a limited fashion, through time. <BR><BR>At least I think thats right :)<BR><BR>I don't actually worry about this kind of thing in my Traveller<BR>games...while the Jump drive does transport a ship FTL it does it with no<BR>change in velocity so high-accel time dilation isn't a problem, and my<BR>manuever drives rarely exceed 2gs, so I don't bother. I am thinking of<BR>setting up a non-Traveller game universe where this kind of thing IS an<BR>issue, but that's another story.<BR>Dean<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 08:48:18 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR><BR>First off, a vry great thank-you to all those on the list who responded and <BR>cleared up my confusion!<BR><BR>For Craig Berry: That makes a lot more sense, now, I think, thank you!&nbsp; But <BR>what if you were in a different frame of reference?&nbsp; (I know, sory, I'm <BR>getting into relativity, and I know Newtonian physics sometimes breaks in <BR>the face of relativity, but....)&nbsp; What if M wasn't the mass of the planet, <BR>but the mass of the cricket ball?&nbsp; What if it was m that was the mass of <BR>the planet?&nbsp; Would that then change the formula?&nbsp; Or is there something <BR>that says M -has- to be the planet's mass?<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>At 04:55 AM 10/5/00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 20:32:07 -0700 (PDT)<BR>&gt;From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Entirely valid, and indeed critical for understanding why they accelerate<BR>&gt;toward Earth at the same rate.&nbsp; Observe...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Call the mass of the Earth M, and the mass of one of your test objects<BR>&gt;(either one, we'll see it doesn't matter (pardon the pun)) m.&nbsp; Newton told<BR>&gt;us that<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; F = GMm/r^2<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That is, the force experienced by both objects is proportional to the<BR>&gt;product of their masses divided by the square of the distance between<BR>&gt;them.&nbsp; So, let's see how one of the balls responds to this force.&nbsp; Again,<BR>&gt;Newton tells us<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; F = ma<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;which we may rearrange to<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; a = F/m<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That is, the acceleration of the ball is proportional to the force<BR>&gt;exterted on it, divided by its mass.&nbsp; Now, plug the gravitation equation<BR>&gt;for force above into the equation for acceleration:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; a = GMm/mr^2<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Since m appears in numerator and denominator, we can eliminate it:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; a = GM/r^2<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;...and thus show that the acceleration of the ball is entirely independent<BR>&gt;of its mass, and indeed depends only on the mass attracting it and the<BR>&gt;distance between the two objects.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Putting it in more descriptive terms, the inertial resistance to<BR>&gt;acceleration is exactly balanced by the gravitational increase in force<BR>&gt;for each possible object.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This has always been one of my favorite physics derivations.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- --<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>&gt;&nbsp; --*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:13:18 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: gravity<BR><BR>Rodney Basler writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;If you want some _real_ fun with physics, imagine what the<BR>&gt;gravitational acceleration would be on the inside of the earth if it were a<BR>&gt;giant hollow ball ;o)&nbsp; We took a whole class session doing that and could<BR>&gt;barely believe the result.&nbsp; Way counterintuitive.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It's the same as the gravity experienced at the exact center of the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; earth, of course.<BR><BR>:)<BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:14:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>&lt;Anthony Jackson&gt;<BR>&gt; OTOH, for a starship fighting in 3-D space, it can be useful to have<BR>&gt; armor fairly evenly distributed.<BR><BR>Only if it gets surprised, or is fighting multiple scattered opponents. <BR>Most of the time, the ideal design will be one heavily armored face and<BR>the remaining lightly armored. <BR>&lt;/AJ&gt;<BR><BR>Hmm?&nbsp; If the ship is rotating and spinning about as it should to avoid<BR>being hit, then it's not going to be able to keep one face towards an<BR>opponent, so it should have armor all over.<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:25:55 -0400<BR>From: Rob Miracle &lt;rmiracle@ient.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR><BR>I've recently upgraded my Eudora to 5.0.&nbsp; It has a nifty feature called <BR>"Mood Monitor".&nbsp; It detects flaming messages and warns you before you open <BR>a message how flaming it is.&nbsp; Messages are rated on a scale of 1-3 chili <BR>peppers.&nbsp; It also alerts you as you compose a message if your message is <BR>getting too hot.<BR><BR>Any way, the point is, I've only seen a couple of messages come in that had <BR>chili peppers and most of them were replies with the flame bait in the <BR>quoted part.<BR><BR>This list is doing a very good job of keeping the peace and that makes my <BR>job easier.<BR><BR>I just wanted to say, Thank you!<BR><BR>Rob<BR><BR><BR>- --<BR>Rob Miracle &lt;rmiracle@ient.com&gt;<BR>Director of Internet Development<BR>Be patient or be a patient. -- Anton Devious<BR>http://www.ient.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:36:22 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: planetary navies<BR><BR>Paul Harris writes:<BR>&gt;I have always wondered about Planetary Navy level of organisation and<BR>&gt;what it does. The implication is that the planetary navy is part of the<BR>&gt;Imperial Navy Organisation, but who actually controls it? <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It has always been my view that planetary navies are independant<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; of Imperial Navy organization.<BR><BR>&gt;Can Local planetary Leaders make descisions on the disposition of the<BR>&gt;Planetary Navy, or are these descisions left to the Imperial Navy<BR>&gt;Command structure? <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I put control of a planetary navy in that planet's government,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; except possibly under certain emergency conditions when the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Imperium may requisition such forces in the service of the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Emperor.<BR><BR>&gt;Can the planetary navy own and use Nuclear Missiles without violating<BR>&gt;the Imperial Rules of War?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Not IMTU.&nbsp; The Imperial Rules of War are there precisely to control<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; conflict between and within Imperial member worlds.&nbsp; The Imperium<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; does not tolerate anyone else within its borders having nukes.<BR><BR>&gt;Could sections of the Planetary Navy be used<BR>&gt;to help put down Internal descent, or participate in Popular uprisings?<BR>&gt;How would the Imperial Navy view this sort of thing?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I would say yes.&nbsp; The Imperial Navy would keep an eye on things,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; but would not get involved unless the Rules of War were contravened<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; or the interests of the Imperium were at risk.<BR><BR>&gt;This is something I have always found a little confusing. Why would a<BR>&gt;Planetary Government pay Taxes to the Imperium to maintain an imperial<BR>&gt;navy which they have no effective control over (which I see as<BR>&gt;reasonable under the circumstances), and then outlay additional<BR>&gt;expenditure on a Planetary Navy, which they may not have effective<BR>&gt;control over!<BR>&gt;Your opinions will be gratefully welcome!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; My take on this has been that planets expect the Imperium, through<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the Imperial and subsector navies, provides protection from extenal<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; aggressors, pirates and other space-bourn hazards.&nbsp; This is part of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; what the planets are paying for in Imperial levies.&nbsp; However, Imperial<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; priorities do not always match those of individual worlds, so having a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; small planetary navy may be useful.&nbsp; Such local forces can be used<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to exclude pirates when the Imperial/subsector navies are elsewhere,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and protect the system from neighbouring systems that might want<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to test the Rules of War.&nbsp; They can also be used to assert sovereignty<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; in the system and enhance pride and standing in the community of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; worlds.&nbsp; Search and rescue is another function that planetary navies.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thus, I have independant planetary navies IMTU, but they are much<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; smaller than might be expected based on the resources of the world.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; No need to spend too much when all that money that you send to the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Imperium has already bought you the services of the Imperial and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; subsector navies!<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3123<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:54:41 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com ([204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:54:01 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id JAA84873;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:38:05 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:35:50 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id JAA84810<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:35:50 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:35:50 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010051335.JAA84810@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3123<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 5 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3124<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Black Globes<BR>HELP! List Manager!<BR>RE: Introduction<BR>Re: Introduction<BR>15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR>Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR>Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR>Re: Graphic Help<BR>Emergency<BR>Re: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR>Re: Introduction<BR>Re: Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR>re:&nbsp; Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR>re:&nbsp; Introduction<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR>Re: gravity<BR>Re: Jump speed.<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR>Apples and cricket balls<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:35:28 -0500 <BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Black Globes<BR><BR>To answer the original question (now that I've<BR>got my email working again), the use of BGs in<BR>MT is covered in depth in the MT Referee's<BR>Manual, pgs. 95- 96. That's in the ship-to-ship<BR>combat section, not the design section.<BR><BR>What's left out of the MT books is the price of<BR>the capacitors. I'm still looking through the<BR>errata for it.<BR><BR>BTW, MT capacitors hold 650MW per dton of<BR>capacitor.<BR><BR>David Smart<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:38:35 -0500 <BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: HELP! List Manager!<BR><BR>Can anyone tell me how to contact the list manager?<BR>My company changed my email address and I can't<BR>unsubscribe the old one(s).<BR><BR>Any help would be greatly appreciated.<BR><BR>David Smart<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:55:51 -0500 <BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Introduction<BR><BR>Mikko V. I. Parviainen<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hello everybody!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As a newbie on the list, I think it is proper to introduce myself.<BR><BR>Hello, Mikko!<BR><BR>Welcome to the list. I'm mainly a lurker myself but have always<BR>enjoyed reading the posts (well, mostly) and have pulled some<BR>fantastic material off of it.<BR><BR>This list is the best I've ever been a member of.<BR><BR>Once again, welcome!<BR><BR>David Smart<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:21:41 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: Re: Introduction<BR><BR>"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;&nbsp; wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Hello everybody!<BR><BR>Terve!<BR><BR><BR>&gt;As a newbie on the list, I think it is proper to introduce myself.<BR><BR><BR>Welcome.&nbsp; Minun nimeni on Timo, mutta voit kutsua minua Timpaksi.<BR><BR>(Please excuse my spelling, I only practice speaking with the students<BR>here!)<BR><BR>Puhun vain vahan Suomi.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;I am more of a collector than a player, I own much of MegaTraveller, and<BR>&gt;some TNE and CT.<BR><BR><BR>Join the club, many of us are in much the same position.&nbsp; Though if you<BR>can't play face to face there are some PBEM games around and some IRC style<BR>ones about which I don't know anything about as I've no access to that.&nbsp; I<BR>know of one PBEM game that is recruiting right now.&nbsp; Try emailing John Rowe<BR>&lt;jtr@perth.dialix.com.au&gt;&nbsp; if you're interested.<BR><BR><BR>&gt; GURPS and T4 aren't so interesting.<BR><BR><BR>Some would disagree and there's much in T4 to beware of but both eras have<BR>some useful material depending on your needs.<BR><BR>Of course, for a full guide you might be interested to know of:<BR>_The Traveller Bibliography_ published by BITS which covers everything<BR>Traveller in some 60 pages of bibliographical details, contents and<BR>comments.&nbsp; You can get it at Warehouse 23 in the USA or BITS in the UK if<BR>it's not available locally.&nbsp; &lt;advert mode off&gt;<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;I am a student of space technology, a subset of electrical engineering, in<BR><BR><BR>So!&nbsp; you'd be one of 'my' students here at Southampton Institute.&nbsp; It's a<BR>small world.&nbsp; (I look after the engineering subject area of the library as<BR>well as computing and yacht design oddly).<BR><BR>Hope you enjoy your time on TML.&nbsp; It's fun, informative and a way of life.<BR><BR><BR>tc<BR>Kun kuulet perhosten naurava, tiedet milta pilvet maistuvat.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:38:37 -0400 <BR>From: Glenn Myers &lt;glenn.myers@ansys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR><BR>Hello all,<BR><BR>Recently I participated in the ebay feeding frenzy over 15mm martian metals<BR>miniatures. Not that I managed to buy anything. Actually, by participated I<BR>mean "got outbid by certain other members of this list with more money than<BR>sense."&nbsp; You know who you are....<BR><BR>It got me to wondering if anyone knew of currently available 15mm SF minis.<BR>I know of Stan Johansen but I don't care for that line. I know that Tabletop<BR>Games in the UK produced a Laserburn line but haven't seen it available in<BR>the US. Anyone know of a US source or a international one which will ship to<BR>the US?<BR><BR>Help?!<BR><BR>Thanks <BR><BR>Glenn<BR><BR><BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR>Glenn E. Myers<BR>ANSYS Inc.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com<BR>275 Technology Drive&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Phone: (724) 514-2913<BR>Canonsburg, PA 15317&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (724) 514-3118<BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:40:23 -0500 (CDT)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR><BR>Paul Harris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I have always wondered about Planetary Navy level of organisation and<BR>&gt; what it does. The implication is that the planetary navy is part of<BR>&gt; the Imperial Navy Organisation, but who actually controls it?<BR><BR>I'll tackle this from the point-of-view of the 5FW board game, which<BR>might not entirely fit in with the rest of canon.<BR><BR>Planetary Forces come in two categories.&nbsp; One is "SDB factors", which<BR>cannot be removed from the system.&nbsp; A handful of worlds (Efate, Regina,<BR>Porozlo, etc) have an additional squadron or two of various types&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>that can be added to fleets just like any regular squadron, but are<BR>reserve fleets owned by the planet and starting in-system.&nbsp; (Figure a<BR>squadron being about TCr 1 or 2 worth of ships.)<BR><BR>The trick here is that due to low tech levels many of the planetary<BR>squadrons have low combat factors, and more importantly jump factors<BR>too low to keep up with the fleet.&nbsp; Imperial fleets tend to be split<BR>between jump-3/jump-4 for main battle units.&nbsp; Extolay and Regina's<BR>CruRons are only jump-1, and thus often end up being left in place.<BR>(Partly this is because 5FW forces squadrons to be organized into<BR>fleets to move, there's a limited number of fleets, and thus it's<BR>often too hard to move a lone jump-1 squadron anywhere fast enough<BR>to be useful, especially since it's also going to be fairly wimpy.)&nbsp; <BR>So while nominally under command of the Imperium, these low-tech <BR>"Imperialized" planetary forces often end up staying in their home<BR>system.<BR><BR>On the other hand, Efate (tech-13) has some fairly useful squadrons<BR>of it's own, which often get quickly sucked into an Imperial fleet<BR>operating in the Louzy/Efate/Uakye area.&nbsp; However, it's still very<BR>likely those squadrons will end up being used to blunt Zhodani or<BR>Vargr attacks in the area, possibly in counter-attacks on the enemy<BR>fleets. <BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:20:07 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>Charles Collin writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Hmm?&nbsp; If the ship is rotating and spinning about as it should to avoid<BR>&gt; being hit, then it's not going to be able to keep one face towards an<BR>&gt; opponent, so it should have armor all over.<BR><BR>Why would the ship rotate or spin and expose different surfaces?&nbsp; Just make<BR>sure that your manuevering thrusters point sideways.&nbsp; That makes you better <BR>at dodging as well as&nbsp; everything else, since you have less cross-section.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:22:44 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Graphic Help<BR><BR>Standard symbol gif of _what_? Or do you mean a gif of a bunch of<BR>symbols?<BR><BR>I can send you a Gif file containing Zane Healy's nice deckplan shapes<BR>for MacDraw (tomorrow, since that's on my Mac at home.) There are also<BR>Campaign cartographer sets out there, and I believe someone on this list<BR>even has a visio set.<BR><BR>Thomas Vickers wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Does anyone have a standard deckplan symbol gif out there that I can cut and<BR>&gt; paste from when making deckplans?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; TV<BR>&gt; ------------------------<BR>&gt; "Never apologize, never explain."<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hunter S. Thompson<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:21:58 -0500<BR>From: Loren Wiseman &lt;lkw@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Emergency<BR><BR>Gentles,<BR><BR>I don't like to do this sort of thing, but we are approaching critical here<BR>at SJ Games.<BR><BR>Jesse has dropped out of sight, and we need covers and internal art for<BR>Modular Cutter or the book will not make it's print date. If anybody knows<BR>where Jesse is, if they know how to get in touch with him, or if you have<BR>heard anything from him in the last week, please tell him to get in touch<BR>with Phil Reed, our art director, at phil@sjgames.com, (512) 447-7866.<BR><BR>It is not time to panic, but I can see it from here . . .<BR><BR><BR><BR>Loren Wiseman<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society&nbsp; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:51:15 +0100<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR><BR>Subject: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>Hello all,<BR><BR>Recently I participated in the ebay feeding frenzy over 15mm martian metals<BR>miniatures. Not that I managed to buy anything. Actually, by participated I<BR>mean "got outbid by certain other members of this list with more money than<BR>sense."&nbsp; You know who you are....<BR><BR>It got me to wondering if anyone knew of currently available 15mm SF minis.<BR>I know of Stan Johansen but I don't care for that line. I know that Tabletop<BR>Games in the UK produced a Laserburn line but haven't seen it available in<BR>the US. Anyone know of a US source or a international one which will ship to<BR>the US?<BR><BR>Help?!<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR>Glenn<BR>&lt;&lt;<BR>hey yeah I was in on that too. Though I did not go past 30.00. I think the<BR>total was something in the region of 50.00.<BR><BR>OK Glen, if you find the best place for buying SF figures, please don't<BR>hesitate to tell me too. I am also interested, I don't mind if there 25mm or<BR>15mm.<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>ICQ#27333894<BR><BR>"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:56:02 +0100<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Introduction<BR><BR>Subject: Re: Introduction<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I am a student of space technology, a subset of electrical engineering, in<BR><BR><BR>So!&nbsp; you'd be one of 'my' students here at Southampton Institute.&nbsp; It's a<BR>small world.&nbsp; (I look after the engineering subject area of the library as<BR>well as computing and yacht design oddly).<BR>&lt;&lt;<BR>hey that's where I want to be next year, to study Computer Science, will be<BR>doing the foundation year though first, I think.<BR>Am also doing Maths, OU.<BR><BR>Mike<BR><BR>Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>ICQ#27333894<BR><BR>"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 09:57:05 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR><BR>Rob Miracle wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've recently upgraded my Eudora to 5.0.&nbsp; It has a nifty feature called<BR>&gt; "Mood Monitor".&nbsp; It detects flaming messages and warns you before you open<BR>&gt; a message how flaming it is.&nbsp; Messages are rated on a scale of 1-3 chili<BR>&gt; peppers.&nbsp; It also alerts you as you compose a message if your message is<BR>&gt; getting too hot.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Any way, the point is, I've only seen a couple of messages come in that had<BR>&gt; chili peppers and most of them were replies with the flame bait in the<BR>&gt; quoted part.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This list is doing a very good job of keeping the peace and that makes my<BR>&gt; job easier.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I just wanted to say, Thank you!<BR><BR>Hey, you're welcome, and due thanks to you for hosting it! <BR><BR>This IS one of the more civil lists I've seen, and gfiven the number of<BR>people on it, that's amazing. Maybe civilization isn't tottering on the<BR>brink after all. <BR><BR>But, lets experiment! <BR><BR>How many chili peppers does the sentence:<BR><BR>"Virus is a perfectly plausible technological development."<BR><BR>generate?? ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:20:53 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re:&nbsp; Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR><BR>&gt;From: Rob Miracle &lt;rmiracle@ient.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I've recently upgraded my Eudora to 5.0.&nbsp; It has a nifty feature called<BR>&gt;"Mood Monitor".&nbsp; It detects flaming messages and warns you before you open<BR><BR>Charlie1's Angels opens in theaters soon, and now there's a Mood Monitor.<BR>The Seventies are alive!<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:20:47 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re:&nbsp; Introduction<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;As a newbie on the list, I think it is proper to introduce myself.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I have been reading TML on and off for some four years now, so I remember<BR>&gt;some near-c rocks and pirates. Perhaps I should once again construct an<BR>&gt;IMTU code...<BR><BR>Tervetuloa, mutta sin et ole newbie.&nbsp; Olet lurker.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:09:53 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; First off, a vry great thank-you to all those on the list who responded and <BR>&gt; cleared up my confusion!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For Craig Berry: That makes a lot more sense, now, I think, thank you!&nbsp; But <BR>&gt; what if you were in a different frame of reference?&nbsp; (I know, sory, I'm <BR>&gt; getting into relativity, and I know Newtonian physics sometimes breaks in <BR>&gt; the face of relativity, but....)&nbsp; What if M wasn't the mass of the planet, <BR>&gt; but the mass of the cricket ball?&nbsp; What if it was m that was the mass of <BR>&gt; the planet?&nbsp; Would that then change the formula?&nbsp; Or is there something <BR>&gt; that says M -has- to be the planet's mass?<BR><BR>Well, when you work it out that way, the difference in acceleration<BR>gets "lost in the noise". <BR><BR>G = 6.67259e-11 (weird units, which I'll skip)<BR>M(earth) = 5.9742e24 kg<BR>R(earth) = 6378140 m (call it 6,400,000 or 6.4e6)<BR><BR>But let's say the cricket ball masses 100 grams, and the lead ball<BR>masses 10 kilos.<BR><BR>A = G * m / R^2<BR><BR>For the cricket ball:<BR><BR>A = 6.67259e-11 * 0.1 / 6.4e6^2<BR>A = 1.63e-25 m/s^2<BR><BR>For the lead ball:<BR><BR>A = 6.67259e-11 * 10 / 6.4e6^2<BR>A = 1.63e-23 m/s^2<BR><BR>As you can see, Earth is accelerated 100 times faster by the lead ball<BR>than by the cricket ball. On the other hand, after 10 seconds, Earth<BR>will have moved 8.15e-22 meters under the influence of the lead ball. <BR><BR>The "Compton wavelength of the proton" (effectively, it's "size") is<BR>1.32e-15 meters. So this is definitely a case of "unmeasurable<BR>movement". :-)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:33:00 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Classes and Names<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Andrew Moffatt-Vallance writes:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; On 4 Oct 00, at 20:39, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; Checksums can catch changed digits, they can't catch transposed digits.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Sure they can. Take the sum of the even digits and multiply by 3 (this is <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; value A), then take the sum of the odd digits and subtract it from A. <BR>&gt; This <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; gives you a check digit that will catch transpositions (its how bar codes <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; work)<BR><BR>But that's not a checksum. <BR><BR>A checksum is merely totalling the digits. <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; A CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check) would catch transposed and changed<BR>&gt; digits.&nbsp; The algorithum is a little more complicated though.<BR><BR>For medium sized values of "a little".... :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:34:52 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: gravity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Rodney Basler writes:<BR>&gt; &lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;If you want some _real_ fun with physics, imagine what the<BR>&gt;&gt;gravitational acceleration would be on the inside of the earth if it were a<BR>&gt;&gt;giant hollow ball ;o)&nbsp; We took a whole class session doing that and could<BR>&gt;&gt;barely believe the result.&nbsp; Way counterintuitive.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; It's the same as the gravity experienced at the exact center of the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; earth, of course.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; :)<BR><BR>Yeah, but if the earth is solid, and you are able to pass thru it<BR>freely (or you drill a hole tiny enough to be ignored), what is the<BR>gravity at various points between the surface and the center (assuming<BR>a uniform density for the Earth)?<BR><BR>The answer is rather amusing.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 09:37:27 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; So, jump drive astrogation is not just a matter of feeding in<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; coordinates, but correcting for relative velocities...... no... this<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; implies that a good enough Astrogation task can take you from standing<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; still relative to one system, to near c speeds in another. An<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; &gt; interesting idea that violates canon....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I missed the beginning of this, but<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Some time ago BMT (Before Mega Traveller) in the days of CT and LBBs.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In the JTAS article (I'll dig out the reference if anyone's interested<BR>&gt; (I think it was by Marc Miller himself)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The physics of Jump space was described as conserving momentum.&nbsp; Your<BR>&gt; velocity, measured say from the galactic centre, remains constant.<BR>&gt; The astrogation task is mainly setting your velocity relative to your<BR>&gt; destination before jumping.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There is some scope for allowing jump calculations to adjust your<BR>&gt; vector, but nothing like the ammounts needed to get to near c, the<BR>&gt; energy input would be huge.<BR><BR>The fun part about conserving momentum, is that it means that for a<BR>jump to to particular star, there's a "preferred" place at the 100<BR>diameter limit for ships to enter jump. <BR><BR>It'll be the place where the ship's vector after more or less constant<BR>boost from the main world to that point comes closest to matching the<BR>velocity of the destination planet.<BR><BR>This makes life much simplere for "ethically challenged merchants". <BR><BR>Of course, you *can* jump from anywhere at or beyond the 100 diameter<BR>limit. But the farther from that point you are the more time (and<BR>fuel!) you'll be wasting at the destination. <BR><BR>And since both planets are moving at 20-70 km/s in their orbits, the<BR>"best" point changes with time. There's also the relative velocity of<BR>the stars they each orbit, but that's effectively a constant over<BR>millenia.<BR><BR>Of course, 20 km/sec is only a bit more than half an hour at 1 g. A<BR>"worst case" difference in velocities between destination and target<BR>might be 200 km/sec Which is about 5.5 hours at 1 g.<BR><BR>So it's merely a matter of *convenience*. But it's still fun to play<BR>with as a way to set things up.<BR><BR>Oh yeah, for some origin/destination pairs, there will be a greater or<BR>lesser part of the local years when a direct jump would run into the<BR>100 diameter limit of one of the stars. If it's at the origin, you'll<BR>have to boost out until the line clears the local star. <BR><BR>If it's at the destination, you'll have to aim for a point well above<BR>or below (or off to one side) of the planet. <BR><BR>Either way, it's going to take a *lot* of time at one end or the other.<BR><BR>Alas, this isn't easily handled unless you have the star and planet<BR>data (including orbital parameters) in a computer. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:54:52 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 08:21:57 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&gt; From: Douglas Sinclair &lt;dns@smtp.interlog.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Craig Berry writes:<BR>&gt; "...and thus show that the acceleration of the ball is entirely<BR>&gt; independent of its mass, and indeed depends only on the mass attracting it<BR>&gt; and the distance between the two objects."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ah, yes, but what about the acceleration of the Earth? :)<BR><BR>What about it?&nbsp; The Earth, which is indeed accelerating, isn't an inertial<BR>frame.&nbsp; The instantaneous acceleration of a falling object is determined<BR>only by the mass of the Earth and the distance from its center.&nbsp; The fact<BR>that the Earth moves a little, instant to instant, is a matter for<BR>differential equations to solve.&nbsp; At each instant, the mass-invariance<BR>holds.<BR><BR>&gt; If you go to the full two-body problem, when the lead ball is dropped the<BR>&gt; Earth will accelerate towards it.&nbsp; An observer on the earth with a<BR>&gt; stop-watch will see that the lead ball takes less time to impact the Earth <BR>&gt; than the rubber ball, provided they are dropped one after the other.&nbsp; Of<BR>&gt; course, the Earth is no longer an inertial frame but few people care how<BR>&gt; fast dropped balls accelerate with respect to the fixed stars.<BR><BR>I do.&nbsp; I lie awake at night worried about it.&nbsp; I admit this at the risk of<BR>attracting Mach-ery.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 10:59:42 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 13:27:56 +0100 <BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; People on the rocket would no more see the rocket get shorter than they<BR>&gt; would notice time running slower. However, presumably if you look out of the<BR>&gt; window the universe seems to be running faster and everything get stretched<BR>&gt; out - a la Star Wars.<BR><BR>Nope, it's even weirder than that.&nbsp; If the rocket is coasting at .9c<BR>relative to Earth, we will measure the rocket as shorter along its axis of<BR>travel, and observe clocks on board running slower.&nbsp; The occupants of the<BR>rocket, on the other hand, will see the Earth (and indeed the entire<BR>universe) 'squashed' along their axis of travel, and observe Earth clocks<BR>running slow.&nbsp; Yep, it's a (seeming) paradox.&nbsp; But they're both 'right'.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 11:03:33 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson:<BR>&gt; &gt; This straight-up example always kind of bothered me.&nbsp; Say you have three <BR>&gt; &gt; objects, one of planetary density and mass (say, Earth) and two much, much <BR>&gt; &gt; smaller objects, both about the size of baseballs or cricket balls, one <BR>&gt; &gt; lead and the other rubber.&nbsp; Wouldn't the gravitational attraction between <BR>&gt; &gt; the planet and the lead cricket ball be greater than that between that of <BR>&gt; &gt; the planet and the rubber cricket ball? however miniscule that attraction <BR>&gt; &gt; might be?&nbsp; And wouldn't that minutely greater attraction result in minutely <BR>&gt; &gt; greater accelleration as the object 'drops?'<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Granted, this is a case where we're talking about a difference of <BR>&gt; &gt; 'extremely large values of zero,' but is it a valid point?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nope. Two equations at work:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; F = m * A<BR>&gt; F = G * M * m / R^2<BR><BR>Leonard, I think you're overlooking the fact that the heavy ball attracts <BR>the earth more than the light ball does. Immeasurably small difference for <BR>the example given, but a theoretically important one.<BR><BR>- -RB<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:05:33 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Apples and cricket balls<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 08:48:18 -0400<BR>&gt; From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For Craig Berry: That makes a lot more sense, now, I think, thank you!<BR><BR>Cool, glad to hear it.<BR><BR>&gt; But what if you were in a different frame of reference?&nbsp; (I know, sory,<BR>&gt; I'm getting into relativity, and I know Newtonian physics sometimes<BR>&gt; breaks in the face of relativity, but....)<BR><BR>Actually, your new question is still perfectly Newtonian.<BR><BR>&gt; What if M wasn't the mass of the planet, but the mass of the cricket<BR>&gt; ball?&nbsp; What if it was m that was the mass of the planet?&nbsp; Would that<BR>&gt; then change the formula?&nbsp; Or is there something that says M -has- to be<BR>&gt; the planet's mass?<BR><BR>Nope, either object can be treated in either role, as long as you're<BR>talking about instantaneous acceleration.&nbsp; Because the bodies each move in<BR>response to their mutual attraction, the force between them will change<BR>over time in complicated ways, as the force changes the acceleration<BR>which changes the movement which changes the distance which changes the<BR>force. :)&nbsp; This kind of thing is handled using differential equations.<BR>But again, if you take a snapshot of the system at a single instant, you<BR>needn't worry about how things change over time.<BR><BR>And, in that instant, the Earth is indeed accelerating toward the cricket<BR>ball, just as the ball is accelerating toward the Earth.&nbsp; But, as the<BR>ball's mass is very, very, *very* small, it produces an unmeasurably tiny<BR>acceleration.&nbsp; But it *is* there, of necessity.&nbsp; We typically talk about<BR>the acceleration of the (much) smaller mass simply because it's possible<BR>to see and measure it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3124<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 5 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3125<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: gravity<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR>Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR>Re: Karl Gustav (getting faaar offtopic now :)<BR>Re: Jump speed<BR>Re: Armor Distribution on Starships<BR>RE: Introduction<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>RE: gravity<BR>Re: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>RE: 15mm Scifi Miniatures from GZG<BR>Re: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Two missile options (GT)<BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR>Re: Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR>Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR>Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:14:32 -0700 <BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: gravity<BR><BR>&gt;From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: gravity<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Rodney Basler writes:<BR>&gt;&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;If you want some _real_ fun with physics, imagine what the<BR>&gt;&gt;gravitational acceleration would be on the inside of the earth if it were<BR>a<BR>&gt;&gt;giant hollow ball ;o)&nbsp; We took a whole class session doing that and could<BR>&gt;&gt;barely believe the result.&nbsp; Way counterintuitive.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It's the same as the gravity experienced at the exact center of the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; earth, of course.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Whoo Hoo!&nbsp; Give the man a cigar - or a complimentary sausage.&nbsp; We<BR>can all imagine what it would be like at the exact center - the forces<BR>balance out, no net gravitational pull.&nbsp; Now narrow your focus:&nbsp; just<BR>imagine looking at only a pair of "pie slices" that intersect at the center,<BR>where you are floating.&nbsp; The amount of matter in the earth-shell at the ends<BR>are the same size, and the same distance apart, right?&nbsp; They balance out.<BR>This works no matter how big or small a slice you take.&nbsp; (this is really<BR>hard to describe, but would be simple to draw)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; OK, now move yourself to a point a third of the way across the empty<BR>part - one side of the hollow earth is now twice as close as the other.&nbsp; Now<BR>if you take your 'pie slice', the side you are closer to cuts out a much<BR>smaller section of the earth's shell, while section of the far wall is much<BR>larger - the size is directly proportional to the square of the distance<BR>(this is like the law that intensity of radiation is inversely proportional<BR>to the square of the distance).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Now for the equations:&nbsp; the farther side is twice the distance, but<BR>4 times the size as the nearer side.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; F(near side) = GMm / r^2<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; F(far side) = G4Mm / (2r)^2&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ...which equals G4Mm / 4(r^2)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The '4's cancel out and you are left with:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; F(far side) = GMm / r^2<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ....the same as the near side!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; This works no matter how big you make the slice or how close or far<BR>you are to the walls.&nbsp; The amount of mass you see in any 'slice' in<BR>proportional to the square of the distance, but the force it exerts is<BR>inversely proportional to the square of the distance.&nbsp; You would be floating<BR>freely no matter where you were.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;wipes hands on jeans&gt;&nbsp; There...now just don't ask about those<BR>freaky mathematical solids that have a finite volume but an infinite surface<BR>area - my calculus is way too rusty for that.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer:&nbsp; They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 11:15:04 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR><BR>Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>&gt; On 4 Oct 00, at 20:39, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Checksums can catch changed digits, they can't catch transposed digits.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sure they can. Take the sum of the even digits and multiply by 3 (this is <BR>&gt; value A), then take the sum of the odd digits and subtract it from A. This <BR>&gt; gives you a check digit that will catch transpositions (its how bar codes <BR>&gt; work)<BR><BR>Nope. The method you describe[1] doesn't take position into account, which <BR>means it can't catch transpositions.<BR><BR>Take: 25543. Sum of even digits = 6, A = 18, sum of odd digits = 13, check <BR>digit = 5.<BR><BR>Transposition error to 25453. Sum of even digits is still 6. A is still 18.<BR>Sum of odd digits is still 13. Check digit is still 5. <BR><BR>Alun Moon wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; A CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check) would catch transposed and changed<BR>&gt; digits.&nbsp; The algorithum is a little more complicated though.<BR><BR>Which is not to say that there aren't techniques more complicated than <BR>simple checksum, yet less complicated than CRC, which would catch more kinds<BR>of errors.<BR><BR>For example, off the top of my head, go from right to left, subtracting each <BR>digit from the digit to its left, taking that value modulo 9, summing the <BR>results modulo 10.<BR><BR>25543: <BR>4-3 = 1, sum 1<BR>5-4 = 1, sum 2<BR>5-5 = 0, sum 2<BR>2-5 = -3 (mod 9) = 6, sum 8<BR><BR>Yields check digit 8.<BR><BR>25453: <BR>5-3 = 2, sum 2<BR>4-5 = -1 (mod 9) = 8, sum 10 (mod 10) = 0<BR>5-4 = 1, sum 1<BR>2-5 = -3 (mod 9) = 6, sum 7<BR><BR>Yields check digit 7. <BR><BR>There are probably better choices for modulus than 9 and 10. And probably <BR>better algorithms to start with. <BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>[1] Whether or not what you describe is what bar codes use.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:16:49 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR><BR>On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I've always thought of the subsector and planetary navies as being akin<BR>&gt; to the U.S. National Guard.&nbsp;&nbsp; They would be under the control of the<BR>&gt; local government and be available for everything from rescue work to<BR>&gt; putting down rebellions.&nbsp; In time of Imperium-threatening emergency,<BR>&gt; though, they would be nationalized (Imperialized?) and integrated into<BR>&gt; the existing Imperial command structure.<BR>&gt; <BR>Hm... not necessarily.<BR><BR>I guess my point is, it would depend on how recently said planet joined<BR>the Imperium and what the circumstances were.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; Of course, much like today's National Guard, the equipment and training<BR>&gt; used by each force would have to be Imperial standard and they'd have<BR>&gt; to occassionally train with the local Imperial fleet so that<BR>&gt; integration would go smoothly if it were ever needed.<BR><BR>That makes sense in this paradigm.<BR><BR>kirichan ^_^<BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:44:26 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Karl Gustav (getting faaar offtopic now :)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Can't be; after all, weren't the Swedes the ones who recruited<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Bernadotte for their throne?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; That's right. But he was forced to take a swedish name, so<BR>&gt; &gt; Jean Baptiste<BR>&gt; &gt; Bernadotte == Karl XIV Johan. Also, he was adopted by Karl<BR>&gt; &gt; XIII (who had no<BR>&gt; &gt; children and had become rather senile, suffering several<BR>&gt; &gt; strokes before he<BR>&gt; &gt; died in 1818).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've always like Bernadotte.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A loyal and successful General for Napoleon,<BR><BR>Actually, I understood that he was involved in a conspiracy to overthrow<BR>Napoleon, but the conspiracy was discovered and the only reason he wasn't<BR>punished was that he was related to Napoleon in some way (I don't remember,<BR>perhaps he was a cousins child to Napoleon or something). To regain/keep his<BR>loyalty, Napoleon promoted Bernadotte to (...ummm, my english is failing, as<BR>is my memory) some kind of local ruler and/or higher military rank. YMMV,<BR>ofcourse.<BR><BR>&gt; offered the Crown of<BR>&gt; Sweden, he asked permission from Napoleon, who granted it thinking he<BR>&gt; would be getting a Loyal Puppet in Scandinavia...<BR><BR>Seems likely, but I know nothing of this.<BR><BR>Creating and ruling an empire isn't an easy thing. Not in Traveller, and not<BR>here. (&lt;== N.B.: almost back on topic!)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:59:28 -0700 <BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The fun part about conserving momentum, is that it means that for a<BR>&gt;jump to to particular star, there's a "preferred" place at the 100<BR>&gt;diameter limit for ships to enter jump. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It'll be the place where the ship's vector after more or less constant<BR>&gt;boost from the main world to that point comes closest to matching the<BR>&gt;velocity of the destination planet.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This makes life much simplere for "ethically challenged merchants". <BR>&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; It would also tend to make for "Traffic Control Approach and<BR>Departure Lanes" that shifted with time in ways that make my head ache at<BR>this time of the morning.&nbsp; What is the usual size of the vector for a<BR>system's proper motion compared to the vector of the planet as it orbit's<BR>the star??<BR><BR>&gt;Oh yeah, for some origin/destination pairs, there will be a greater or<BR>&gt;lesser part of the local years when a direct jump would run into the<BR>&gt;100 diameter limit of one of the stars. If it's at the origin, you'll<BR>&gt;have to boost out until the line clears the local star. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If it's at the destination, you'll have to aim for a point well above<BR>&gt;or below (or off to one side) of the planet. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Do you mean that the 100 diameter limit of the star is slose enough<BR>to the planetary surface that by boosting out 100d from the planet in a<BR>direction toward the star would carry you into its limit?&nbsp; Because you can<BR>jump to a system even if that system is 'hidden' by the mass of the star -<BR>you are not moving through 3 dimensional space, you are moving outside of it<BR>and then dropping back in.&nbsp; Just like a 3D person could reach over and touch<BR>any part of the inside of a 2D creature without having to go through it's<BR>skin&nbsp; (I can see it now:&nbsp; "'Surgeons from the 4th Dimension', coming to the<BR>B-movie houses near you!")<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (Oh yeah - what happens in the tube?&nbsp; Does the gravity remain the<BR>same or does it increase without bound as you aproach the center?)<BR>- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - Don't blame them, they don't tell me what to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:19:50 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Armor Distribution on Starships<BR><BR>&lt;Anthony Jackson&gt;<BR>&gt; Hmm?&nbsp; If the ship is rotating and spinning about as it should to avoid<BR>&gt; being hit, then it's not going to be able to keep one face towards an<BR>&gt; opponent, so it should have armor all over.<BR><BR>Why would the ship rotate or spin and expose different surfaces?&nbsp; Just<BR>make sure that your manuevering thrusters point sideways.&nbsp; That makes you<BR>better at dodging as well as everything else, since you have less<BR>cross-section. <BR>&lt;/AJ&gt;<BR><BR>If you're accelerating towards the enemy, you need to have the drive away<BR>from them and you therefore need to armor the front of the ship.&nbsp; Vice<BR>versa if you need to accelerate away from them.&nbsp; If you can just settle<BR>into a nice range, you can point the drive "sideways" and keep one flank<BR>towards them, but this limits how you can move.&nbsp; You can thrust in any<BR>direction "in the plane" (from the enemy's perspective) but you can't<BR>accelerate towards or away from them w/o exposing front or aft. <BR><BR>The above all assumes that you must use the main drive to dodge. If you're<BR>assuming that the drive can produce significant thrust in any direction<BR>w/o changing the attitude of the ship, then it doesn't apply.<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 15:57:51 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Introduction<BR><BR>Mikko Parviainen writes:<BR>&gt;Hello everybody!<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi!&nbsp; Welcome to the list.<BR><BR>&gt;I have been reading TML on and off for some four years now, so I remember<BR>&gt;some near-c rocks and pirates.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Ah, so you are already familiar with some of our foibles.&nbsp; And you<BR>stayed<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; anyways?&nbsp; Brave of you.<BR><BR>:)<BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 13:02:39 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; I do.&nbsp; I lie awake at night worried about it.&nbsp; I admit this at the risk of<BR>&gt; attracting Mach-ery.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Oh, Craig...no tau ways about it, you're relatively nuts!<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 16:04:01 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: gravity<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;If you want some _real_ fun with physics, imagine what the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;gravitational acceleration would be on the inside of the earth if it were a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;giant hollow ball ;o)&nbsp; We took a whole class session doing that and could<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;barely believe the result.&nbsp; Way counterintuitive.<BR>&gt;&gt;It's the same as the gravity experienced at the exact center of the<BR>&gt;&gt;earth, of course.<BR>&gt;Yeah, but if the earth is solid, and you are able to pass thru it<BR>&gt;freely (or you drill a hole tiny enough to be ignored), what is the<BR>&gt;gravity at various points between the surface and the center (assuming<BR>&gt;a uniform density for the Earth)?<BR>&gt;The answer is rather amusing.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I suppose that it depends on what amuses you.&nbsp; :)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; As you penetrate down into the planet, gravity will be experienced as<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; if you were on a planet without all that mass that you have gone deeper<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; than.&nbsp; Thus, if you go 1000 km deep in a 6000 km radius planet, you<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; will feel gravity as if you were on a 5000 km radius planet.&nbsp; This works<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; even if density changes with depth.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 14:42:22 -0600 (MDT)<BR>From: pengebos@NMSU.Edu<BR>Subject: Re: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR><BR>On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Glenn Myers wrote:<BR>&gt; It got me to wondering if anyone knew of currently available 15mm SF minis.<BR>&gt; I know of Stan Johansen but I don't care for that line. I know that Tabletop<BR>&gt; Games in the UK produced a Laserburn line but haven't seen it available in<BR>&gt; the US. Anyone know of a US source or a international one which will ship to<BR>&gt; the US?<BR><BR>These are the SciFi Miniatures in 15m that I know of:<BR><BR>Ground Zero Games in England&nbsp; - I'll Send the list to the list later<BR>Alternative Armies in England/ Brigade Games in the US<BR>Freikoprs in England/ OUtland Games inthe US <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; - Aliens/Predators and Colonial Marines<BR>TCGames in the US<BR><BR>Peter Engebos&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;pengebos@nmsu.edu&gt;<BR>T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;degaalth@prodigy.net&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; http://www.geocities.com/degaalth/<BR><BR>&nbsp; "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser<BR>beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say<BR>we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for our fire control system"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:43:13 EDT<BR>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/5/00 1:09:10 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>cberry@cinenet.net writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;&nbsp; "...and thus show that the acceleration of the ball is entirely<BR>&gt; independent of its mass, and indeed depends only on the mass attracting it<BR>&gt; and the distance between the two objects." &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Technically, the mass of the ball and the mass of the Earth show up in the <BR>equation. But since the ball mass is dozens of orders of magnitude lower than <BR>the Earth mass, the ball mass is negligible or inconsequential, but not <BR>non-existent.<BR><BR>Marc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:05:24 -0600 (MDT)<BR>From: pengebos@NMSU.Edu<BR>Subject: RE: 15mm Scifi Miniatures from GZG<BR><BR>I am posting the list of miniatures and prices, since its not available<BR>online and several people were interested.&nbsp; They are not available form<BR>Geohex.<BR><BR>Peter Engebos&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;pengebos@nmsu.edu&gt;<BR>T'Sarith, Lord deGaalth&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;degaalth@prodigy.net&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; http://www.geocities.com/degaalth/<BR><BR>&nbsp; "Here at Ortillery Command we have at our diposal hundred megawatt laser<BR>beams, mach 20 titanium rods and guided thermonuclear bombs. Some people say<BR>we think that we're God. We're not God. We just borrowed his SMITE button<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for our fire control system"<BR><BR><BR>For those of you who've been following our 15mm versions of the SG figures,<BR>the current list is as follows:<BR><BR>STARGRUNT FIGURES IN 15mm.....<BR>Reaction to our first NEW releases of 15mm SG figures has been excellent,<BR>so here's more:<BR>all 2.50 per pack:<BR>All AVAILABLE NOW&nbsp; unless noted.<BR>SG15-N1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; NSL Armoured Infantry (8 figs)<BR>SG15-F1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FSE Colonial Legionnaires (8 figs) in helmets<BR>SG15-F2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FSE Colonial Legionnaires (8 figs) in kepis<BR>SG15-U1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; UNSC Hardsuit Marines (8 figs)<BR>SG15-A1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; NAC Royal Marines in helmets (8 figs)<BR>SG15-A2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; NAC Royal Marines - berets etc (8 figs)<BR>SG15-E1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ESU Naval Infantry (8 figs)<BR>SG15-E2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ESU Naval Infantry with camo capes (8 figs)<BR>SG15-K1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Kra'Vak (alien) Infantry (8 figs)<BR>SG15-A3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; NAC POWER ARMOUR (6 figs)<BR>SG15-N3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; NSL POWER ARMOUR (6 figs)<BR>SG15-E3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ESU POWER ARMOUR (6 figs)<BR>SG15-F3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; FSE POWER ARMOUR (6 figs)<BR>Scheduled for LATE SEPTEMBER/EARLY OCTOBER:<BR>SG15-J1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Japanese Corporate Troops (8 figs)<BR>SG15-K2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Kra'Vak Riding Beast "cavalry" (3 beasts + riders)<BR>SG15-C1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Colonial Militia troops (8 figs)<BR>And more to come!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:48:24 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "michael.scanlon" &lt;michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 5:51 PM<BR>Subject: Re: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Subject: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>Hello all,<BR><BR>Recently I participated in the ebay feeding frenzy over 15mm martian<BR>metals<BR>miniatures. Not that I managed to buy anything. Actually, by<BR>participated I<BR>mean "got outbid by certain other members of this list with more money<BR>than<BR>sense."&nbsp; You know who you are....<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&lt;&lt;<BR>hey yeah I was in on that too. Though I did not go past 30.00. I think<BR>the<BR>total was something in the region of 50.00.<BR><BR>OK Glen, if you find the best place for buying SF figures, please don't<BR>hesitate to tell me too. I am also interested, I don't mind if there<BR>25mm or<BR>15mm.<BR><BR>Mike<BR>- -----------------------<BR>Heh! Me too, though I actually did manage to get some aliens and some<BR>vargr, and a ist ed High Guard (sorry colin... $9.50 for 5 books was too<BR>tempting &lt;g&gt;)<BR><BR>The Chief culprit in the 'more-money-than-sense' stakes is paula-t, who<BR>has been a thorn in my side for months...<BR><BR>He *consistently* bids ridiculously high amounts.&nbsp; At times, I admit I<BR>have pushed it up just to see how nutty his bids are, safe in the<BR>knowledge that even if I do outbid him, he'll just come back with an<BR>even more ludicrous bid...<BR><BR>BTW, a good tip for dutch auctions (of which there were a couple [that I<BR>ended up getting a share of...]) is that if you look at the highest<BR>bidders, you can see *exactly* how much the 'winning' bidders have bid<BR>*before* the end of auction. You can then come in with a bid a few cents<BR>more than the lowest winning bid to at least get a share of the items...<BR><BR>Matt<BR>aka themightystrom<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 08:04:36 +1000<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>&gt; From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR>&gt; Not to mention that various rulesets notwithstanding, it isn't actually<BR>&gt; necessary to give a vehicle equal armor on all faces.<BR><BR>IMO this only works if you assume vectored thrusters. If you have to spin<BR>the ship to do evasion, then this becomes non-optimal pretty fast.<BR><BR>I'm 90% sure that the FFS3 combat system is going to involve (a) your<BR>effective gees = theoretical gees / (length modifier ^2), and (b) allowing<BR>you to avoid this with multiple sets of thrusters set at different angles,<BR>at the price of internal structure going up by some obscene amount (I'm<BR>playing with a multiplier of x^1.5 per dimension, where x is the gees thrust<BR>in each direction).<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 08:12:21 +1000<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Two missile options (GT)<BR><BR>&gt; From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Two Missile Options (GT)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;(3) Accept that contact missiles are not military weapons for use against<BR>&gt; &gt;'real' warships, but rather are a weapon system that are used by and on<BR>&gt; &gt;civilians and auxiliaries. Given the (IMO) silly detection ranges in G:T,<BR>&gt; &gt;(IMO) point defense lasers should be even more effective than they are<BR>under<BR>&gt; &gt;that ruleset, anyway.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I large battles, missiles will be launched in salvos.&nbsp; Then things<BR>&gt; tend to be binary.&nbsp; If you can group enough missles together overwhelm<BR>&gt; point defenses you are almost guaranteed a kill.&nbsp; If you can't then<BR>&gt; they tend to be useless.&nbsp; In the end it comes down to how much<BR>&gt; do you spend on this game vs other needs.<BR><BR>An option is to use biggish nukes in a counter-missile role, using them to<BR>force the missile salvos to spread out and thus allow a simpler problem for<BR>the anti-missile lasers. Small, short-duration kinetic-kill or chemical<BR>laser missiles are also good for stopping big anti-ship missiles (the type<BR>VI drone rides again !).<BR><BR>But yeah, a major role of a credible missile threat is to force the enemy to<BR>respond by spending resources on counter-missile systems.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 15:27:26 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>Katharine Whitchurch writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR>&gt; &gt; Not to mention that various rulesets notwithstanding, it isn't actually<BR>&gt; &gt; necessary to give a vehicle equal armor on all faces.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; IMO this only works if you assume vectored thrusters. If you have to spin<BR>&gt; the ship to do evasion, then this becomes non-optimal pretty fast.<BR><BR>No, you just need to put your primary evasion thrusters somewhere other than<BR>on the back of your ship.&nbsp; The obvious design is a needle shape with thrusters<BR>pointing out one side.&nbsp; Structurally, this is no more difficult than putting<BR>thrusters at the end, as long as they are reasonably well balanced.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 18:40:11 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR><BR>Matt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;The Chief culprit in the 'more-money-than-sense' stakes is paula-t, who<BR>&gt;has been a thorn in my side for months...<BR><BR>&gt;He *consistently* bids ridiculously high amounts.&nbsp; At times, I admit I<BR>&gt;have pushed it up just to see how nutty his bids are, safe in the<BR>&gt;knowledge that even if I do outbid him, he'll just come back with an<BR>&gt;even more ludicrous bid...<BR><BR>I'm another one just coming off this auction.&nbsp; I did manage to fill a couple of the remaining holes in my collection, but was mostly forced to surrender when the aforementioned paula-t drove bidding well beyond the point of sanity.&nbsp; Is this person on the TML?&nbsp; If so, STOP BIDDING SO HIGH!&nbsp; It's not worth it!&nbsp; Of course, that's me as a bidder -- if I were liquidating my collection, I'd be thanking heaven for folks like that -- $90 for a copy of AHL?&nbsp; That's still pretty low. $95 anyone? (after I paid about $8 for it...)<BR><BR>Trent<BR>&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 18:03:29 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR><BR>"Glenn M. Goffin" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: Rob Miracle &lt;rmiracle@ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;I've recently upgraded my Eudora to 5.0.&nbsp; It has a nifty feature called<BR>&gt; &gt;"Mood Monitor".&nbsp; It detects flaming messages and warns you before you open<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Charlie1's Angels opens in theaters soon, and now there's a Mood Monitor.<BR>&gt; The Seventies are alive!<BR><BR>"Hello, Wisconsin!"<BR><BR>(For the non-US [or non-broadcast-TV-watching] members of the list,<BR>"Hello, Wisconsin!" is a tagline from the opening credits of "That '70s<BR>Show" from Fox television.)<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 19:40:47 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR><BR>I am still amazed at times by the reactions of losing bidders on eBay. I<BR>have had people complain that the bidding was too high, or that someone<BR>jumped in and outbid them at the last moment. One fellow went so far as to<BR>threaten the winning bidder (though I'm not sure how he intended to follow<BR>through) and then tried to convince me that I should refuse to sell to the<BR>other guy! Why is it that otherwise reasonable people come unglued during<BR>auctions?<BR><BR>The obvious answer is "auction fever". Simply stated, the bidders get caught<BR>up in a battle to win that has nothing to do with the value of the item they<BR>are bidding on. Face the facts! You don't need the item, you know what it is<BR>worth to you, why do you bid higher than what reason tells you is prudent?<BR><BR>The proper way to bid, especially in a proxy system like ebay has, is to<BR>simply bid what the item is worth to you and let the chips fall where they<BR>may. If you want to be really savvy about it, put a watch on the item you<BR>want and bid your price at the last minute of the auction. That way your bid<BR>is not exposed to "feverish" bidders long enough for them to get their<BR>dander up.<BR><BR>One more point, while I'm on this silly soapbox: if you lost out to a<BR>"crazy" bidder who paid $76 for a packet of 15mm figures, just remember that<BR>YOU were the numbnuts who bid $75!<BR><BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~&lt;&gt;&lt;~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm another one just coming off this auction.&nbsp; I did manage to fill a<BR>couple of the remaining holes in my collection, but was mostly forced to<BR>surrender when the aforementioned paula-t drove bidding well beyond the<BR>point of sanity.&nbsp; Is this person on the TML?&nbsp; If so, STOP BIDDING SO HIGH!<BR>It's not worth it!&nbsp; Of course, that's me as a bidder -- if I were<BR>liquidating my collection, I'd be thanking heaven for folks like that -- $90<BR>for a copy of AHL?&nbsp; That's still pretty low. $95 anyone? (after I paid about<BR>$8 for it...)<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:58:08 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR><BR>On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, SwordWorlder wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I am still amazed at times by the reactions of losing bidders on eBay. I<BR>&gt; have had people complain that the bidding was too high, or that someone<BR>&gt; jumped in and outbid them at the last moment. One fellow went so far as to<BR>&gt; threaten the winning bidder (though I'm not sure how he intended to follow<BR>&gt; through) and then tried to convince me that I should refuse to sell to the<BR>&gt; other guy! Why is it that otherwise reasonable people come unglued during<BR>&gt; auctions?<BR>&gt; <BR>I don't know.&nbsp; I love it when my auctions go high and have never regretted<BR>a purchase.&nbsp; I paid $260 for a doll once but it was a rare one and I was<BR>tired of looking for her.&nbsp; I just wanted the search to be over.<BR><BR>Kiri<BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:22:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; On 4 Oct 00, at 20:39, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Checksums can catch changed digits, they can't catch transposed digits.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Sure they can. Take the sum of the even digits and multiply by 3 (this is <BR>&gt;&gt; value A), then take the sum of the odd digits and subtract it from A. This <BR>&gt;&gt; gives you a check digit that will catch transpositions (its how bar codes <BR>&gt;&gt; work)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nope. The method you describe[1] doesn't take position into account, which <BR>&gt; means it can't catch transpositions.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Take: 25543. Sum of even digits = 6, A = 18, sum of odd digits = 13, check <BR>&gt; digit = 5.<BR><BR>No, he means even and odd *positions* in the number.<BR><BR>Sum of even digits = 5+4&nbsp; &nbsp; = 9<BR>Sum of odd digits = 2+5+3&nbsp; = 10<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "checksum" = 9*3-10 = 17 <BR>I'm not sure if you'd use just the 7 or sum the digits to get 8<BR><BR>&gt; Transposition error to 25453. Sum of even digits is still 6. A is still 18.<BR>&gt; Sum of odd digits is still 13. Check digit is still 5. <BR><BR>Sum of even digits = 5+5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; = 10<BR>Sum of odd digits = 2+4+3&nbsp;&nbsp; = 9<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "checksum" = 10*3-10 = 20<BR><BR>Whether you strip the 2 and use 0, or sum the digits and get 2, the<BR>"checksum" *is* different.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3125<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (rly-yd02.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.2]) by air-yd02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:26:12 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com ([204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:25:40 2000<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA24224;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:14:01 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:12:29 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA24062<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:12:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:12:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010060012.UAA24062@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3125<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3126</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 5 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3126<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: gravity<BR>Re: Jump speed<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR>Re: HELP! List Manager!<BR>Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR>Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR>Re: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Czechsums<BR>Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR>Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR>Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR>Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR>Re: Classes and names<BR>RE: Plea for font help!<BR>RE: post font to alt newsgroup<BR>RE: Emergency<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR>Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:29:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: gravity<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;If you want some _real_ fun with physics, imagine what the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;gravitational acceleration would be on the inside of the earth if it were <BR>&gt; a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;giant hollow ball ;o)&nbsp; We took a whole class session doing that and could<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;barely believe the result.&nbsp; Way counterintuitive.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;It's the same as the gravity experienced at the exact center of the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;earth, of course.<BR>&gt;&gt;Yeah, but if the earth is solid, and you are able to pass thru it<BR>&gt;&gt;freely (or you drill a hole tiny enough to be ignored), what is the<BR>&gt;&gt;gravity at various points between the surface and the center (assuming<BR>&gt;&gt;a uniform density for the Earth)?<BR>&gt;&gt;The answer is rather amusing.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I suppose that it depends on what amuses you.&nbsp; :)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; As you penetrate down into the planet, gravity will be experienced as<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; if you were on a planet without all that mass that you have gone <BR>&gt; deeper<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; than.&nbsp; Thus, if you go 1000 km deep in a 6000 km radius planet, you<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; will feel gravity as if you were on a 5000 km radius planet.&nbsp; This <BR>&gt; works<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; even if density changes with depth.<BR><BR>True. But if density is uniform, the gravity drops *linearly* from "1g"<BR>to 0 as you approach the center.<BR><BR>This has interesting effects on orbits of "ghost particles" (or the<BR>paths taken by "phased" humans who forgot that if they can walk thru<BR>walls, they can also fall thru the floor. :-)<BR><BR>That was one of the things I liked about the way the early writers for<BR>Kitty Pryde's character in X-Men (the comic) treated her power. They<BR>actually realized that she *had* to be able to walk on air if she could<BR>walk thru walls. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:38:12 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;&gt;Subject: Re: Jump speed.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;The fun part about conserving momentum, is that it means that for a<BR>&gt;&gt;jump to to particular star, there's a "preferred" place at the 100<BR>&gt;&gt;diameter limit for ships to enter jump. <BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;It'll be the place where the ship's vector after more or less constant<BR>&gt;&gt;boost from the main world to that point comes closest to matching the<BR>&gt;&gt;velocity of the destination planet.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;This makes life much simplere for "ethically challenged merchants". <BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; It would also tend to make for "Traffic Control Approach and<BR>&gt; Departure Lanes" that shifted with time in ways that make my head ache at<BR>&gt; this time of the morning.&nbsp; What is the usual size of the vector for a<BR>&gt; system's proper motion compared to the vector of the planet as it orbit's<BR>&gt; the star??<BR><BR><BR>As I recall from past discussions, the relative motion of the stars<BR>will be under 100 km/s except in *really* unusual cases. <BR><BR>You can work backwards...<BR><BR>We've got maps of (portions of) the Imperium covering several thousand<BR>years. And (most of) the stars haven't shifted hexes in that time. <BR><BR>A quick calculation says that 1 hex in 3000 years is a bit over 300<BR>km/s. <BR><BR>QED. <BR><BR>The orbital velocity of the planet's is easy enough to calculate. Just<BR>use the formulas in the various rules for determining the length of the<BR>year. For circular otbits, the distance travelled in a year is 2*pi*R. <BR>Divide the distance (in km) by the length of the year (in seconds). <BR><BR>For Earth, it works out to around 30 km/s.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Oh yeah, for some origin/destination pairs, there will be a greater or<BR>&gt;&gt;lesser part of the local years when a direct jump would run into the<BR>&gt;&gt;100 diameter limit of one of the stars. If it's at the origin, you'll<BR>&gt;&gt;have to boost out until the line clears the local star. <BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;If it's at the destination, you'll have to aim for a point well above<BR>&gt;&gt;or below (or off to one side) of the planet. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Do you mean that the 100 diameter limit of the star is slose enough<BR>&gt; to the planetary surface that by boosting out 100d from the planet in a<BR>&gt; direction toward the star would carry you into its limit? <BR><BR>Nope.<BR><BR>&gt; Because you can<BR>&gt; jump to a system even if that system is 'hidden' by the mass of the star -<BR>&gt; you are not moving through 3 dimensional space, you are moving outside of it<BR>&gt; and then dropping back in.<BR><BR>Not according to Mark Miller. If the line between jump entry and your<BR>intended exit point passes thru the 100 diameter limit of anything, you<BR>come out of jump at that point, not your planned exit point. <BR><BR>That's *official* ...<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Just like a 3D person could reach over and touch<BR>&gt; any part of the inside of a 2D creature without having to go through it's<BR>&gt; skin&nbsp; (I can see it now:&nbsp; "'Surgeons from the 4th Dimension', coming to the<BR>&gt; B-movie houses near you!")<BR><BR>I know about that trick. :-)<BR><BR>Now if I could only figure out how to *do* it. Bank vault? *What* bank<BR>vault? &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (Oh yeah - what happens in the tube?&nbsp; Does the gravity remain the<BR>&gt; same or does it increase without bound as you aproach the center?)<BR><BR>Huh? What tube?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:55:08 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Russell Bornschlegel" &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 7:15 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3122<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Andrew Moffatt-Vallance wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; On 4 Oct 00, at 20:39, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Checksums can catch changed digits, they can't catch transposed<BR>digits.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Sure they can. Take the sum of the even digits and multiply by 3<BR>(this is<BR>&gt; &gt; value A), then take the sum of the odd digits and subtract it from<BR>A. This<BR>&gt; &gt; gives you a check digit that will catch transpositions (its how bar<BR>codes<BR>&gt; &gt; work)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nope. The method you describe[1] doesn't take position into account,<BR>which<BR>&gt; means it can't catch transpositions.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Take: 25543. Sum of even digits = 6, A = 18, sum of odd digits = 13,<BR>check<BR>&gt; digit = 5.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Transposition error to 25453. Sum of even digits is still 6. A is<BR>still 18.<BR>&gt; Sum of odd digits is still 13. Check digit is still 5.<BR><BR>I think he meant even and odd as in position, not value...<BR><BR>ie 25543 Even = 9 (5+4) Odd = 10 (2 + 5 + 3) checksum = 17 (why he<BR>multiplies by 3 I don't quite know)<BR><BR>Transpose to 25453 Even = 10, Odd = 9 (2 + 4 + 3), checksum = 21...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 23:00:36 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: HELP! List Manager!<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 2:38 PM<BR>Subject: HELP! List Manager!<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Can anyone tell me how to contact the list manager?<BR>&gt; My company changed my email address and I can't<BR>&gt; unsubscribe the old one(s).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Any help would be greatly appreciated.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; David Smart<BR><BR>I *think* that if you send the unsubscribe message without an address it<BR>will unsubscribe the address it was sent from, but if you specify an<BR>address (eg unsubscribe me@my.old.address) it will unsubscribe that<BR>address.<BR><BR>Of course, I may be mistaken, but no harm trying...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:17:36 -0700<BR>From: "J. Paul Sanders" &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR><BR>At 06:40 PM 10/5/00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Matt wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;The Chief culprit in the 'more-money-than-sense' stakes is paula-t, who<BR>&gt;&gt;has been a thorn in my side for months...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;He *consistently* bids ridiculously high amounts.&nbsp; At times, I admit I<BR>&gt;&gt;have pushed it up just to see how nutty his bids are, safe in the<BR>&gt;&gt;knowledge that even if I do outbid him, he'll just come back with an<BR>&gt;&gt;even more ludicrous bid...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'm another one just coming off this auction.&nbsp; I did manage to fill a<BR>couple of the remaining holes in my collection, but was mostly forced to<BR>surrender when the aforementioned paula-t drove bidding well beyond the<BR>point of sanity.&nbsp; Is this person on the TML?&nbsp; If so, STOP BIDDING SO HIGH!<BR>It's not worth it!&nbsp; Of course, that's me as a bidder -- if I were<BR>liquidating my collection, I'd be thanking heaven for folks like that --<BR>$90 for a copy of AHL?&nbsp; That's still pretty low. $95 anyone? (after I paid<BR>about $8 for it...)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Trent<BR><BR>Perhaps you've missed the whole point of an auction? Just because you're<BR>not prepared to bid as high as the other person is no reason for them to<BR>stop bidding. It may not be "worth it" to you, but obviously they don't see<BR>it that way.<BR><BR>Paul Sanders (and no - I'm not paula-t)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:32:02 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>&lt;Anthony Jackson&gt;<BR>No, you just need to put your primary evasion thrusters somewhere other<BR>than on the back of your ship.&nbsp; The obvious design is a needle shape with<BR>thrusters pointing out one side.&nbsp; Structurally, this is no more difficult<BR>than putting thrusters at the end, as long as they are reasonably well<BR>balanced. <BR>&lt;/AJ&gt;<BR><BR>But this still means that you can't accelerate towards or away from the<BR>enemy without exposing the fore and aft of the ship, so those would have<BR>to be armored.&nbsp; I don't think you could get away with just thrusting in<BR>the plane perpendicular to enemy fire.&nbsp; There's going to be the need to<BR>thrust in a variety of directions. <BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 20:31:47 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR><BR>Swordworlder wrote:<BR>&gt; One more point, while I'm on this silly soapbox: if you lost out to a<BR>&gt;"crazy" bidder who paid $76 for a packet of 15mm figures, just remember that<BR>&gt;YOU were the numbnuts who bid $75!<BR><BR>For the most part, I agree with everything you wrote, even if I don't always practice it.&nbsp; However, I need to defend myself on this last point:&nbsp; while bidding on a copy of JTAS #1; my max. bid was somewhere in the mid-30s, which I considered a lot, but not excessively so (it IS #1, after all).&nbsp; Upon being outbid (which took awhile, I was high-bidder for quite some time), I considered upping my bid into the $40 range (which, I concede, was dumb of me if $30s was what I originally intended) but, upon checking the status, found the damn thing had jumped to over $80!&nbsp; Now maybe my expectations were unrealistic and this collector's item magazine is "worth" more than I suspected, but the magnitude of this leap blew me away.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>P.S.&nbsp; And in hindsight I must admit I'm better off shaking my head disdainfully from the sidelines than being the proud owner of a book I let myself get sucked into bidding $50-60 on, which very well might've happened under other circumstances.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:31:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 16:43:13 EDT<BR>&gt; From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In a message dated 10/5/00 1:09:10 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>&gt; cberry@cinenet.net writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;&nbsp; "...and thus show that the acceleration of the ball is entirely<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; independent of its mass, and indeed depends only on the mass attracting it<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; and the distance between the two objects." &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Technically, the mass of the ball and the mass of the Earth show up in<BR>&gt; the equation. But since the ball mass is dozens of orders of magnitude<BR>&gt; lower than the Earth mass, the ball mass is negligible or<BR>&gt; inconsequential, but not non-existent. <BR><BR>Nope, read my post again.&nbsp; Both masses show up in the equation for the<BR>mutual force between the ball and the Earth, so that force is proportional<BR>to the ball's mass.&nbsp; *But*, the acceleration of the ball resulting from<BR>that force is inversely proportional to the ball's mass (a = F/m).&nbsp; These<BR>two effects cancel out neatly, making the ball's acceleration (in an<BR>inertial frame) entirely, completely, totally, no-kidding *independent* of<BR>its mass.<BR><BR>The fact that the Earth accelerates, too, and faster toward a larger ball,<BR>has been disucussed in other posts; it's irrelevant to the question of the<BR>ball's instantaneous acceleration, though.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 17:33:29 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Czechsums<BR><BR>Leonard wrote: <BR>&gt; No, he means even and odd *positions* in the number.<BR><BR>Ah, thank you. I had a nagging feeling I was missing something.<BR><BR>- -Russell "Second most pedantic poster to TML, why do you ask?" B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:44:12 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>Charles Collin writes:<BR><BR>&gt; But this still means that you can't accelerate towards or away from the<BR>&gt; enemy without exposing the fore and aft of the ship, so those would have<BR>&gt; to be armored.&nbsp; I don't think you could get away with just thrusting in<BR>&gt; the plane perpendicular to enemy fire.&nbsp; There's going to be the need to<BR>&gt; thrust in a variety of directions. <BR><BR>You can actually do without much manuevering ability while in combat; most of<BR>the position matching is going to be done from outside of weapons range.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:41:38 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: FW:Periodical Bibliography<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Timothy wrote:<BR>&gt;I think there's the ability of several and there's the inclination of some<BR>&gt;of us to work on such a project, it's probably just a question of time.<BR>&gt;I've mentally pencilled in for sometime around 2003 when I've finished what<BR>&gt;would be the third and final volume of bibliography (all the remaining<BR>&gt;articles in non-Traveller journals and possibly fanzines as well).<BR><BR>Glad to see I'm not the only frustrated librarian on the list. Actually, you<BR>_are_ a librarian, right? I'm sure you supplied the Tagline about entropy.<BR><BR>I've now scanned in two pages from my hand-written bibliography: Challenge 39<BR>for "Rev" Keith (SJG) that doesn't have much Trav stuff, and JTAS #12, which<BR>does. ;-)<BR><BR>I just picked JTAS #12 at random, but it turns out to have some pretty<BR>interesting articles such as the _Contact! Virushi_ article, the _Special<BR>Supplement 1 - Merchant Prince_ pullout, and lots of Striker-oriented articles<BR>("there's a war on, don't you know!").<BR><BR>The Challenge #39 TOC is at:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw/pictures/content/chall_39.gif<BR><BR>The JTAS #12 TOC is at:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.pcug.org.au/~davidjw/pictures/content/jtas_12.gif<BR><BR>Sorry they're a bit big (approx. 280K) - I did it in a hurry, scanned them in<BR>AND optimised them but in-between forgot to reduce them to 16 colours.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 17:46:34 -0700 <BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, SwordWorlder wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I am still amazed at times by the reactions of losing bidders on eBay. I<BR>&gt;&gt; have had people complain that the bidding was too high, or that someone<BR>&gt;&gt; jumped in and outbid them at the last moment. One fellow went so far as<BR>to<BR>&gt;&gt; threaten the winning bidder (though I'm not sure how he intended to<BR>follow<BR>&gt;&gt; through) and then tried to convince me that I should refuse to sell to<BR>the<BR>&gt;&gt; other guy! Why is it that otherwise reasonable people come unglued during<BR>&gt;&gt; auctions?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;I don't know.&nbsp; I love it when my auctions go high and have never regretted<BR>&gt;a purchase.&nbsp; I paid $260 for a doll once but it was a rare one and I was<BR>&gt;tired of looking for her.&nbsp; I just wanted the search to be over.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The bidding is a strange and unpredictable thing.&nbsp; I've seen great<BR>stuff go for peanuts (even won a few items like that), and other things go<BR>for unbelievable figures.&nbsp; After dropping out of numerous auctions for<BR>copies of Metamorphosis Alpha (which I had been looking for for over 20<BR>years), I won an auction at 45 dollars...and when the seller realized that<BR>it was missing the summary chart page, he dropped the price by a third and<BR>threw in the postage...gee, _twist_ my arm!&nbsp; I wasn't buying it for the<BR>investment value, but because I wanted to _read_ it.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ----------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer:&nbsp; They tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:03:25 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Paul wrote:<BR>&gt;This is something I have always found a little confusing. Why would a<BR>&gt;Planetary Government pay Taxes to the Imperium to maintain an imperial<BR>&gt;navy which they have no effective control over (which I see as<BR>&gt;reasonable under the circumstances), and then outlay additional<BR>&gt;expenditure on a Planetary Navy, which they may not have effective<BR>&gt;control over!<BR><BR>I see the Planetary Navy as third-line forces, ranking behind the IN and then<BR>the (colonial) subsector forces. The ships are all hand-me-downs from the "big<BR>boys", so are probably TL 13 and 100 years old, with all the associated<BR>maintenance problems and costs. They would be a rag-tag fleet, and may not even<BR>maintain the j-drives on the bigger craft in order to reduce running costs.<BR>'Natch, this must be done with IN approval, so the IN knows what fleet assets it<BR>can and can't rely upon.<BR><BR>For example, I've allowed Duke - er, Count - Leto of Tavonni to have a Kokkirak<BR>as the backbone of the Tavonni Planetary Navy. The fact he used to be a Sector<BR>Admiral also helped in this acquisition. ;-)<BR><BR>Not all planets can afford a navy, y'know. High-Pop &amp; Industrial, or maybe Rich<BR>- - the sort that have the tax base to pay for the equipment. In fact, the 5FW<BR>counters only have a very few "named" (ie. planetary) squadrons. Most colonial<BR>forces are numbered.<BR><BR>The taxes are to support the IN's state-of-the-art ships, so that when it really<BR>"drops in the pot" you can call for help from the Imperium (and the "real"<BR>Navy).<BR><BR>BTW, my guess is that planetary navies do not have access to nukes, unless it is<BR>wartime and they are under direct IN control. Otherwise neighbouring planets may<BR>decide to use them on each other.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 03:09:10 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Classes and names<BR><BR>"Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt; writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; One of the adventure seeds I have used are durring the 5FW, quite a few<BR>&gt;nuclear missiles meant for a ship, that was destroyed in the fighting, were<BR>&gt;cached on an asteroid.&nbsp; Now, the supply officer who had them cached there<BR>&gt;has hired the party to retieve them for him.&nbsp; But, you also have the IN, the<BR>&gt;ISS, INI, the Sector Navy, several Sub-Sector &amp; Planetary Navies, Mercs,<BR>&gt;Arms Dealers, Pirates, &amp; Terrorists after them.<BR>&gt;Now, you can run this as active service members of the IN/INI are trying to<BR>&gt;recover the warheads, as they are their property.&nbsp; Of course the ISS might<BR>&gt;want to do it, either with the IN/INI or as a ploy to shame the IN/INI.<BR><BR>What does IN/INI stand for? "Imperial Navy Intelligence of the Imperial Navy"?<BR>This sounds like a job for the Department of Redundancy Department.<BR><BR>&gt;The Sector Navy might want them as they are TL15 Missiles...<BR><BR>The Sector Navy IS the Imperial Navy.<BR><BR>&gt;...the same for the Sub-Sector &amp; Planetary Navies, <BR><BR>Though if it is in a subsector with a TL15 world then the subsector navy already<BR>has TL15 missiles.<BR><BR>&gt;...but IIRC Sub-Sector &amp; Planetary Navies are not allowed Nukes, unless it is<BR>&gt;a time of war &amp; this can provide them with a massive "club", just in case.<BR><BR>I don't recall any such proviso in any canonical source. Subsector navies can<BR>buy obsolescent IN ships with weaponry intact, so I would think they could buy<BR>ordnance too. After all, subsector navies are Imperial organisations too.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:10:16 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Plea for font help!<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Frank said:<BR>&gt;Timothy Collinson wrote :<BR>&gt;&gt; Wow!&nbsp; The old Trigan Empire.&nbsp; What a blast from the past!&nbsp; I almost<BR>&gt;&gt; forgotten all about it.&nbsp; I wonder if you could buy the strip in<BR>&gt;&gt; book format somewhere?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yes, you can. A freind of mine has hardcover reprints of the first two major<BR>&gt;storylines.<BR>&gt;I, on the other hand, have quite a few originals from "Look &amp; Learn"<BR>&gt;magazine.<BR><BR>Do you have a contact for the book? Who published it, when, and what is the ISBN<BR>and full title so I can quote it when talking to the publisher?<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:12:34 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: post font to alt newsgroup<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;You'll get a good response (asnd maybe even a copy of the font if it's<BR>&gt;shareware or freeware) if you post a gif or jpeg of the sample to<BR>&gt;alt.binaries.fonts requesting identification and help in finding it.<BR><BR>Argh! The latest PCUG mag says that since our ISP deal changed in the last 2<BR>mths or so, we were getting charged too much for the binaries groups - and<BR>they've dropped them. The hope is that they'll get them back from somewhere<BR>else, but that doesn't help right now.<BR><BR>Would someone be able to post the query to alt.binaries.fonts for me? I can send<BR>you an email with a pic of the font - or you can just grab one of the gifs from<BR>my website.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 18:08:12 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Emergency<BR><BR>All,<BR><BR>Due to a fire, some 2nd degree burns, a new job, and a stainless steal bitch<BR>of a cold or some other bug that literally dropped me for two days, I was<BR>out of touch for ahile.&nbsp; I'm back, and desperately trying to play catch up<BR>on the graphics.&nbsp; I've already e-mailed Loren &amp; Phil seperately with the<BR>full details.&nbsp; Didn't want anyone really freaking out or something.<BR><BR>Have to get back to work.<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:22 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Emergency<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Gentles,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I don't like to do this sort of thing, but we are approaching<BR>&gt; critical here<BR>&gt; at SJ Games.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse has dropped out of sight, and we need covers and internal art for<BR>&gt; Modular Cutter or the book will not make it's print date. If anybody knows<BR>&gt; where Jesse is, if they know how to get in touch with him, or if you have<BR>&gt; heard anything from him in the last week, please tell him to get in touch<BR>&gt; with Phil Reed, our art director, at phil@sjgames.com, (512) 447-7866.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is not time to panic, but I can see it from here . . .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society<BR>&gt; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:22:00 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Jeffrey wrote a well-considered response:<BR>&gt;Well, I have played all five of the games, and their timelines in one =<BR>&gt;form or another. I personally enjoy TNE for a number of reasons.<BR><BR>Well said, Jeffrey! Certainly, many had problems with the feasibility of Virus<BR>itself - although there are fixes for that - and the duration of the Short<BR>Night, etc, but they are just minor niggles in comparison. I think you have<BR>captured the _real_ pros and cons of TNE very succinctly.<BR><BR>TNE, as a stand-alone universe (rather than one that just stands on the ruins of<BR>the Imperium), was brilliant. The sourcebooks were all good, and many were<BR>excellent. Certainly the overall quality outstripped T4. The biggest drawback,<BR>as you pointed out, was the destruction of a well-integrated, long-running,<BR>established campaign background.<BR><BR>If both universes had been allowed to continue in parallel, things may have been<BR>different. But hindsight is always 20/20.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:43:23 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Anthony asked:<BR>&gt;Why would the ship rotate or spin and expose different surfaces?<BR><BR>In HG, you have "batteries" and "batteries bearing", that is, large ships cannot<BR>fire all their batteries at once. They are assumed to be (at least) rotating on<BR>their longitudinal axis in order to bring fresh weapons to bear - especially if<BR>some batteries have been destroyed.<BR><BR>And there is that other defensive attribute, "Agility", which was assumed to be<BR>the ship dodging and jinking all over the place. TNE showed us that this<BR>maneuvering isn't worth a damn against light-speed weapons anyway, so you only<BR>need worry about it under HG.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:43:32 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Steve wrote:<BR>&gt;Planetary Forces come in two categories.&nbsp; One is "SDB factors", which<BR>&gt;cannot be removed from the system.&nbsp; A handful of worlds (Efate, Regina,<BR>&gt;Porozlo, etc) have an additional squadron or two of various types...<BR><BR>Thanks for expanding on the 5FW situation. Once again, I should have read all my<BR>mail before I replied. &lt;sigh&gt;<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3126<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 6 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3127<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Jump speed<BR>Re: Emergency<BR>Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR>Re: Planetary navies in the 3rd Imperium<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3126<BR>RE: Jump speed<BR>re:&nbsp; Introduction<BR>Re: Emergency<BR>Re: Planetary navies<BR>Path of Tears<BR>Re: Planetary navies in the 3rd Imperium<BR>Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium (Long.)<BR>Planetary Navies - More Questions<BR>Re: Tigress class<BR>RE: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR>RE: Plea for font help!<BR>RE: Path of Tears<BR>RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3126<BR>Hull structures (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:45:30 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Rod wrote:<BR>&gt;Because you can<BR>&gt;jump to a system even if that system is 'hidden' by the mass of the star -<BR>&gt;you are not moving through 3 dimensional space, you are moving outside of it<BR>&gt;and then dropping back in.<BR><BR>Actually, you can't. These systems are masked by that star's 100D limit. For<BR>example, from outside the Sol system you can jump to Mars (unconfined j-point),<BR>or to one-half of Earth's 100d limit (partially confined j-point) but not to<BR>Venus or Mercury (both fully confined j-points).<BR><BR>If you targetted Mercury, your ship would precipitate out of j-space, violently.<BR>This is one form of misjump, albiet not a random one. ;-)<BR><BR>And in G:T, Marc has added another twist: jump masking. Something I don't like,<BR>personally, preferring the jump-point cascade rules from Leroy's "From Port To<BR>Jump-point" JTAS article (which is also a rule that assists with the p-word, as<BR>it happens!).<BR><BR>All only in Trav canon, of course.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:27:18 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Emergency<BR><BR>Good to hear you are back mate, but are you okay is of more concern!&nbsp; I hope<BR>you are.<BR><BR>- -- The Roc<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 11:08:am<BR>Subject: RE: Emergency<BR><BR><BR>&gt; All,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Due to a fire, some 2nd degree burns, a new job, and a stainless steal<BR>bitch<BR>&gt; of a cold or some other bug that literally dropped me for two days, I was<BR>&gt; out of touch for ahile.&nbsp; I'm back, and desperately trying to play catch up<BR>&gt; on the graphics.&nbsp; I've already e-mailed Loren &amp; Phil seperately with the<BR>&gt; full details.&nbsp; Didn't want anyone really freaking out or something.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Have to get back to work.<BR>&gt; Jesse<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 9:22 AM<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Emergency<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Gentles,<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I don't like to do this sort of thing, but we are approaching<BR>&gt; &gt; critical here<BR>&gt; &gt; at SJ Games.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jesse has dropped out of sight, and we need covers and internal art for<BR>&gt; &gt; Modular Cutter or the book will not make it's print date. If anybody<BR>knows<BR>&gt; &gt; where Jesse is, if they know how to get in touch with him, or if you<BR>have<BR>&gt; &gt; heard anything from him in the last week, please tell him to get in<BR>touch<BR>&gt; &gt; with Phil Reed, our art director, at phil@sjgames.com, (512) 447-7866.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; It is not time to panic, but I can see it from here . . .<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Loren Wiseman<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society<BR>&gt; &gt; http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SJ Games<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 20:44:48 -0700<BR>From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR><BR>J. Paul Sanders &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;&nbsp; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Perhaps you've missed the whole point of an auction? Just because you're<BR>&gt; not prepared to bid as high as the other person is no reason for them to<BR>&gt; stop bidding. It may not be "worth it" to you, but obviously they don't<BR>see<BR>&gt; it that way.<BR>&gt;<BR>Of course anything is worth exactly as much as someone is willing to pay for<BR>it, and my earlier comment was a joke, more-or-less, but, unlike the<BR>old-timers on this list who've been gaming since the 70s and buying<BR>everything as it was released, I've picked up a significant portion of my<BR>(sizeable) game collection through various secondary markets -- conventions,<BR>auctions, out-of-print dealers, etc. -- and thus feel I've got a pretty good<BR>idea of the "going rate" for many game-related things.&nbsp; Thus, I'm somewhat<BR>surprised to see someone willing to pay what's IMO a LOT more than something<BR>"should" go for; and I become even more dubious when the same few people<BR>(i.e. paula-t) seem to be doing it repeatedly.&nbsp; At worst, their behavior<BR>leads to "auction inflation" and will make it harder and harder for me to<BR>fill in the remaining holes in my collection at what I consider to be<BR>reasonable prices -- but, on the other hand, I hope they don't wise up (or<BR>lose interest) before it's my turn to start selling...<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 05:30:01 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary navies in the 3rd Imperium<BR><BR>Paul Harris writes:<BR><BR>&gt;I have always wondered about Planetary Navy level of organisation and<BR>&gt;what it does. The implication is that the planetary navy is part of the<BR>&gt;Imperial Navy Organisation, but who actually controls it? <BR><BR>The planetary navies are raised and funded by the individual member worlds.<BR>IMTU all planetary military personnel is automatically part of the Imperial<BR>reserves which enables the Imperium to take over commad of them at will.<BR><BR>&gt;Can the planetary navy own and use Nuclear Missiles without violating<BR>&gt;the Imperial Rules of War?<BR><BR>IMO own, yes, use, no.<BR><BR>&gt;Could sections of the Planetary Navy be used<BR>&gt;to help put down Internal descent, or participate in Popular uprisings?<BR><BR>I don't see why not.<BR><BR>&gt;How would the Imperial Navy view this sort of thing?<BR><BR>With concern.<BR><BR>Here is my take on planetary military expenditures:<BR><BR>Apart from Imperial taxes systems, worlds, and nations also spend something<BR>on their own military. In the Imperium, the average total expenditure is 3%<BR>of the GWP; on worlds where the state of international tension is high, this<BR>may range as high as 12% in peacetime and 15% if the society is actually at<BR>war; where little conflict has been experienced for extended periods of time<BR>the military budget may be as low as 1% of the GWP. This is relevant to the<BR>Imperium for two reasons: Systems with large system defence forces can take<BR>care of themselves in many cases, allowing the IN to concentrate on less able<BR>systems, and the IN has the authority, within certain limits, to require<BR>system forces to aid them.<BR><BR>The Imperium has the authority to declare an emergency and require up to 5%<BR>of GWP in taxes for the duration of the emergency. This is a power not used<BR>lightly.<BR><BR>If a war last for more than a year or appear really serious from the start,<BR>total expenditure will rise to a maximum of 15%. Any percentage higher than<BR>that is impossible to sustain in the long run, though desperate societies<BR>can manage more for a while.<BR><BR>A system's defense budget is equal to it's total expenditure minus the<BR>Imperial tax. If a system spends a total of 3% and pays 1% to the Imperium,<BR>its defense budget is equal to 2% of GWP.<BR><BR>The total military budget must be divided between the army (more accurately:<BR>planetary forces; in this context 'the army' includes any air and wet navy<BR>forces) and the navy. The proportion allocated to the army averages 40% on<BR>most worlds, but averages only 6% on worlds with vacuum or trace atmospheres.<BR>Sometimes a planet will have a third service called something like 'Planetary<BR>Guard' or 'Close Orbit and Airspace Control Command' which controls planetary<BR>defenses. As with the Imperial marines above it is simpler to ignore this.<BR>If you do, ground based planetary defenses are taken from army funds, orbital<BR>defenses from navy funds. But keep in mind that this distinction can be<BR>blurry. Sometimes the difference between a grav tank and a system defense<BR>boat is purely semantic.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 22:32:25 -0500<BR>From: Richard Persky &lt;richardp@mac.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3126<BR><BR>on 10/5/00 8:47 PM,&nbsp; 22:55:08 +0100, "Matthew Bond"<BR>&lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I think he meant even and odd as in position, not value...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ie 25543 Even = 9 (5+4) Odd = 10 (2 + 5 + 3) checksum = 17 (why he<BR>&gt; multiplies by 3 I don't quite know)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Transpose to 25453 Even = 10, Odd = 9 (2 + 4 + 3), checksum = 21...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; But wouldn't transposing two odd-positioned digits, or two<BR>even-positioned digits, then leave the checksum unaffected?<BR><BR>&nbsp; Richard<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:31:27 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Jump speed<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&gt; [mailto:david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au]<BR>&gt; And in G:T, Marc has added another twist: jump masking. <BR>&gt; Something I don't like,<BR>&gt; personally, preferring the jump-point cascade rules from <BR>&gt; Leroy's "From Port To<BR>&gt; Jump-point" JTAS article (which is also a rule that assists <BR>&gt; with the p-word, as<BR>&gt; it happens!).<BR><BR>So what's 'Jump Masking' then? <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:56:38 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: re:&nbsp; Introduction<BR><BR>On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;As a newbie on the list, I think it is proper to introduce myself.<BR>&gt; &gt;I have been reading TML on and off for some four years now, so I remember<BR>&gt; &gt;some near-c rocks and pirates. Perhaps I should once again construct an<BR>&gt; &gt;IMTU code...<BR>&gt; Tervetuloa, mutta sin et ole newbie.&nbsp; Olet lurker.<BR><BR>(Glenn said I'm not a newbie but a lurker)<BR><BR>Well, perhaps, but I haven't been reading TML for a year or so, and I have<BR>no idea of the current topics and such. <BR><BR>Things being this way, I consider myself a newbie. B-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 00:04:36 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Emergency<BR><BR>Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; All,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Due to a fire, some 2nd degree burns, a new job, and a stainless steal bitch<BR>&gt; of a cold or some other bug that literally dropped me for two days, I was<BR>&gt; out of touch for ahile.&nbsp; I'm back, and desperately trying to play catch up<BR>&gt; on the graphics.&nbsp; I've already e-mailed Loren &amp; Phil seperately with the<BR>&gt; full details.&nbsp; Didn't want anyone really freaking out or something.<BR><BR>I hope you are feeling better. I had some 2nd degree burns abour 13 years ago,<BR>when I fell while carrying a bucket of scalding hot water: I missed two days of<BR>work and it *did* not feel good.You have my sympathies.<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:25:40 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary navies<BR><BR>Ian Ferguson writes:<BR>&gt;Thus, I have independant planetary navies IMTU, but they are much<BR>&gt;smaller than might be expected based on the resources of the world.<BR>&gt;No need to spend too much when all that money that you send to the<BR>&gt;Imperium has already bought you the services of the Imperial and<BR>&gt;subsector navies!<BR><BR>Canonically the average amount spent on planetary military forces is twice that<BR>spent on Imperial subsector forces and regular forces combined. That's an<BR>average; presumably worlds far from the Imperial border spend less and those on<BR>a border more.<BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 00:34:40 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Path of Tears<BR><BR>Has anyone used this book? I'm considering adapting it to a GURPS space campaign<BR>and replacing the virus with a robotic race (or more correctly, the robot<BR>servitors of a long extinct race) and changing the names of the interstallar<BR>powers. In some ways, it is similar to the first Traveller campaign I ran some 17<BR>years ago, with pocket empires emerging from a 300-400 year Second Long Night.<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:40:20 +0200<BR>From: Hans Rancke-Madsen &lt;rancke@diku.dk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary navies in the 3rd Imperium<BR><BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson writes: <BR><BR>&gt;I see the Planetary Navy as third-line forces, ranking behind the IN and then<BR>&gt;the (colonial) subsector forces. The ships are all hand-me-downs from the "big<BR>&gt;boys", so are probably TL 13 and 100 years old, with all the associated<BR>&gt;maintenance problems and costs. They would be a rag-tag fleet, and may not even<BR>&gt;maintain the j-drives on the bigger craft in order to reduce running costs.<BR><BR>I know this view of the planetary navies follows logically from the canonical<BR>description of colonial forces as second-class units, but it is inconsistent<BR>with what we know of the way these forces are raised and maintained. Here is<BR>my take on the typical colonial navy; the argument applies equally to planetary<BR>navies. (BTW, it's been converted to GT tech levels).<BR><BR>(NB. This is not canon. It's merely what I believe SHOULD be canon ;-).<BR><BR>The typical colonial navy<BR><BR>Although the colonial navies are just as much Imperial organisations as the<BR>Imperial Navy and transfers back and forth between them is very common, they<BR>are _separate_ organisations. Imperial military taxes are paid by individual<BR>worlds to their subsector duke. The duke passes along half to his sector duke<BR>and retains the other half. The subsector duke uses his cut to pay for his<BR>subsector forces: the [Name of Duchy] Colonial Navy, Colonial Army, and<BR>Colonial Marines respectively.<BR><BR>In theory each subsector in the Imperium has a duke and a colonial navy<BR>roughly the size of an average Imperial fleet. Since most subsector navies<BR>have just the one fleet, the terms 'subsector/colonial navy' and<BR>'subsector/colonial fleet' are often used interchangably, but this is not<BR>correct. In practice some subsectors lack the population to rate a duke and<BR>the economic strength to support credible subsector forces. In these cases<BR>the subsector usually belongs to a neighboring duke who will often maintain<BR>two fleets, one in each subsector. An example is the Duchy of Regina Navy<BR>which consists of two fleets, the 1156th in Regina and the 1264th in Jewell.<BR>Additionally a few subsector navies in the Imperial core are so big that for<BR>convenience they are split into two fleets, like the Duchy of Saregon Navy<BR>which consists of the 1021th and the 1112th.<BR><BR>Colonial navies are often percieved as comic-opera outfits composed<BR>exclusively of low-tech ships and worn-out navy hand-me-downs crewed by<BR>inexpert weekend warriors. There is a small amount of truth in this, but<BR>not much. Colonial crew is usually less experienced overall than the IN,<BR>mostly due to the IN's habit of recruiting the cream of the colonial navies,<BR>but the difference in efficiency ratings is usually only a few percent as<BR>there are transfers the other way when experienced officers and ratings<BR>move back to their local navies after a period in the IN, either because<BR>they want to settle down and have families or because the colonial navies <BR>offer significant promotions to personnel with IN experience.<BR><BR>As for the ships, some colonial navies _are_ mostly composed of old IN<BR>retirees. Until Strouden reached TL 12 a few years ago, the Duchy of Lunion<BR>Navy was happy to buy such ships, because the best that could be build<BR>locally was TL 11. The Duchy of Regina Navy is even willing to take obsolete<BR>TL 11 IN ships because the best they can produce locally is TL 10. But navies<BR>with big TL 12 shipyards in their own subsectors mostly consist of brand new,<BR>top-of-the-line ships. Which doesn't prevent IN crewmen from poking fun at<BR>them.<BR><BR><BR>Hans<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 22:42:08 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium (Long.)<BR><BR>I am not sure if I would take the same interpretation. Though certainly<BR>colonial forces could be a clearing house for obselete vessels, and<BR>doubtless they are in small numbers, I would imagine colonial navies in a<BR>slightly different sense, for a number of reasons.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. The Imperium maintains approximately 320 numbered front line, state<BR>of the art fleets and roughly the same number of reserve fleets. In<BR>addition, the Imperium also has a number of depot based fleets, with each<BR>depot maintaining three seperate, though unequal, fleets. (Rebellion<BR>Sourcebook) This means that the demand for starships is increadibly high.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. Those numbers reflect only the Imperial Navy, and not any other<BR>starfaring organization (Imperial Scouts and Megacorporations being the<BR>primary others) within the Imperium itself. Excess military starships are<BR>probably sold to another party long before any single planet has a crack at<BR>them. Indeed, Azhanti High Lightning mentions several of its class are<BR>transferred to the Scouts and a Megacorp. (Sorry, don't have AHL here, so<BR>going by memory.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; What the two comments add up to is a lack of availability in spare<BR>military starships. However, even a small percentage of the Imperium's<BR>excess starships would form a considerable Navy, especially for the needs of<BR>a single world. Therefore, the bidding is probably pretty fierce among the<BR>High Pop worlds for them. Still, this would result in a piecemeal<BR>deployment, where the purchased ships are flagship types for the planetary<BR>navies, as opposed to the kind of squadron deployment they would enjoy in<BR>either the Imperial or Reserve numbered fleets.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I see the majority of planetary navies containing a very few Imperial<BR>surplus warships supporting and leading several cutting edge system defense<BR>boats. SDBs are more cost effective and efficient, when considering their<BR>narrow role. No single planet has the need, nor does the Imperium wish them<BR>to have the ability to launch a credible offensive against their neighbors.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:03 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Navies in the Third Imperium<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Paul wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;This is something I have always found a little confusing. Why would a<BR>&gt; &gt;Planetary Government pay Taxes to the Imperium to maintain an imperial<BR>&gt; &gt;navy which they have no effective control over (which I see as<BR>&gt; &gt;reasonable under the circumstances), and then outlay additional<BR>&gt; &gt;expenditure on a Planetary Navy, which they may not have effective<BR>&gt; &gt;control over!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I see the Planetary Navy as third-line forces, ranking behind the IN and<BR>then<BR>&gt; the (colonial) subsector forces. The ships are all hand-me-downs from the<BR>"big<BR>&gt; boys", so are probably TL 13 and 100 years old, with all the associated<BR>&gt; maintenance problems and costs. They would be a rag-tag fleet, and may not<BR>even<BR>&gt; maintain the j-drives on the bigger craft in order to reduce running<BR>costs.<BR>&gt; 'Natch, this must be done with IN approval, so the IN knows what fleet<BR>assets it<BR>&gt; can and can't rely upon.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; For example, I've allowed Duke - er, Count - Leto of Tavonni to have a<BR>Kokkirak<BR>&gt; as the backbone of the Tavonni Planetary Navy. The fact he used to be a<BR>Sector<BR>&gt; Admiral also helped in this acquisition. ;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Not all planets can afford a navy, y'know. High-Pop &amp; Industrial, or maybe<BR>Rich<BR>&gt; - the sort that have the tax base to pay for the equipment. In fact, the<BR>5FW<BR>&gt; counters only have a very few "named" (ie. planetary) squadrons. Most<BR>colonial<BR>&gt; forces are numbered.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The taxes are to support the IN's state-of-the-art ships, so that when it<BR>really<BR>&gt; "drops in the pot" you can call for help from the Imperium (and the "real"<BR>&gt; Navy).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; BTW, my guess is that planetary navies do not have access to nukes, unless<BR>it is<BR>&gt; wartime and they are under direct IN control. Otherwise neighbouring<BR>planets may<BR>&gt; decide to use them on each other.<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>&gt; http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>&gt; "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>&gt; of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>&gt; position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 18:30:36 +1100 <BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Planetary Navies - More Questions<BR><BR>Thanks for the great response to my question. I am now able to develop a<BR>picture of how I am going to present planetary navies to my players in<BR>future. <BR><BR>I would, however, like to ask another related question. I will use an<BR>example to illistrate my point.<BR><BR>Planet Susten is med to high population, earthlike world, whose<BR>governent is a democratic republic. They elect a president every five<BR>years. Being a nation that is proud of it's achievements it maintains a<BR>decent military with the following arms of service, ground forces,<BR>air-forces, wet-navy, and Planetary Navy. <BR><BR>I have been hearing a lot that the colonial navy includes the planetary<BR>navy for this world, and seems to come under the control of the local<BR>Noblility. <BR><BR>This has raised two interesting questions. (Well intersting to me<BR>anyway)<BR><BR>Does the President of Susten have any say in what to do with the<BR>Planetary Navy?<BR><BR>What powers does the local noble for the world (Count Imanoble of<BR>Susten) hold?<BR><BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:03:00 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress class<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C02FA6.85509020<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR><BR>Have just completed a FFS1 version of the Tigress, I am now doing a version<BR>of an imperial heavy fighter, when it is done I shall post them both for<BR>your perusal, should be a few days.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C02FA6.85509020<BR>Content-Type: application/ms-tnef;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; name="winmail.dat"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64<BR>Content-Disposition: attachment;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; filename="winmail.dat"<BR><BR>eJ8+IgEHAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNy<BR>b3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANAHCgAGAA8AAgAAAAUA/QAB<BR>A5AGAFgFAAAlAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAAB<BR>AAAAEgAAAFJlOiBUaWdyZXNzIGNsYXNzAAAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAcAvY13PHeqPgpuZEdS7dIqT<BR>fxo+eQAAAgEdDAEAAAAYAAAAU01UUDpTS0FSQU5AQklHUE9ORC5DT00ACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAOSS<BR>UmMvwAECAQoOAQAAABgAAAAAAAAAKxGx6okQvxGih/ZedPpHPcKAAAALAB8OAQAAAAIBCRABAAAA<BR>HAEAABgBAABCAQAATFpGdbW60WwDAAoAcmNwZzEyNQYyAPgLYG5nMzA4njEB9wKkA+MCAGNoCsBg<BR>c2V0MCAHEwKAfSUKgXYIkHdrC4BkNB0MYGMAUAsDC7UgSGHAdmUganVzBUAFoA5tC1ARMAmAIGEg<BR>RrBGUzEgE/AREGkCIMAgb2YgdGgUAAdgIwnBBBAsIEkVAG0gpG5vB+BkbwuAZxUBtxWJA5EHcHAG<BR>cQdAIBZAURPgeSBmFoBoFNByfRbgdxZAGNEFQAQAF4FuKxQAFwBzEPBsAyBwb38UQRYxFzAG4BYw<BR>GdAFsXn/CGEb4ASQFDAHQBbgG5AIYFpsFPBiFAAVEGYH0WRwYXlzLgqiCoQKgEFbAjACIHkfVBHh<BR>ACEQCwABgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAA4UAAAAAAAADAAOACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAA<BR>AAAQhQAAAAAAAAMAB4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAAnagEAHgAIgAggBgAAAAAAwAAA<BR>AAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOS4wAAsADIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAaFAAAAAAAA<BR>AwANgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAAYUAAAAAAAALABaACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAO<BR>hQAAAAAAAAMAF4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwAZgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAA<BR>AEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAAeACiACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA2hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAp<BR>gAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAN4UAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAB4AKoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG<BR>AAAAADiFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAALADKACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAACChQAAAQAAAAIB+A8B<BR>AAAAEAAAACsRseqJEL8Roof2XnT6Rz0CAfoPAQAAABAAAAArEbHqiRC/EaKH9l50+kc9AgH7DwEA<BR>AABzAAAAAAAAADihuxAF5RAaobsIACsqVsIAAFBTVFBSWC5ETEwAAAAAAAAAAE5JVEH5v7gBAKoA<BR>N9luAAAAQzpcV0lORE9XU1xBcHBsaWNhdGlvbiBEYXRhXE1pY3Jvc29mdFxPdXRsb29rXG91dGxv<BR>b2sucHN0AAADAP4PBQAAAAMADTT9NwAAAgF/AAEAAAAyAAAAPExQQkJLQ0lITk5FUE1GQkFNT0NO<BR>Q0VHTkRJQUEuU2thcmFuQGJpZ3BvbmQuY29tPgAAAAMABhCepSQYAwAHEJkAAAADABAQAAAAAAMA<BR>ERAAAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASEFWRUpVU1RDT01QTEVURURBRkZTMVZFUlNJT05PRlRIRVRJR1JF<BR>U1MsSUFNTk9XRE9JTkdBVkVSU0lPTk9GQU5JTVBFUklBTEhFQVZZRklHSFRFUixXSEVOSVRJU0RP<BR>TkVJUwAAAADFAw==<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C02FA6.85509020--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:23:25 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR><BR>Trent Smith wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Thus, I'm somewhat surprised to see someone willing to pay what's IMO a<BR>&gt; LOT more than something "should" go for; and I become even more dubious<BR>&gt; when the same few people (i.e. paula-t) seem to be doing it repeatedly.<BR><BR>You think the Traveller prices are bad ?<BR><BR>About a year ago I sold a couple of "Cosmic Encounter" expansion sets for<BR>about $35 US. The purchasers told me they were happy with their purchases,<BR>but I can't understand paying that much for what was basicaly two or three<BR>printed cardboard sheets!<BR><BR>Especially as I paid about 50 cents for them when I bought them new !<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:32:05 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Plea for font help!<BR><BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; Frank said:<BR>&gt; &gt;Timothy Collinson wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Wow!&nbsp; The old Trigan Empire.&nbsp; What a blast from the past!&nbsp; I almost<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; forgotten all about it.&nbsp; I wonder if you could buy the strip in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; book format somewhere?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Yes, you can. A freind of mine has hardcover reprints of the<BR>&gt; &gt; first two major storylines. I, on the other hand, have quite<BR>&gt; &gt; a few originals from "Look &amp; Learn" magazine.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Do you have a contact for the book? Who published it, when, and<BR>&gt; what is the ISBN and full title so I can quote it when talking to the<BR>publisher?<BR><BR>I'll see if I can find out.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:43:35 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Path of Tears<BR><BR>Brandon Cope wrote :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Has anyone used this book?<BR><BR>I've played in a campaign based around "Path of Tears", and it was quite<BR>moving, though great fun to play.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:59:06 +0100 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3126<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Richard Persky [mailto:richardp@mac.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 06 October 2000 04:32<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3126<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; on 10/5/00 8:47 PM,&nbsp; 22:55:08 +0100, "Matthew Bond"<BR>&gt; &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I think he meant even and odd as in position, not value...<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; ie 25543 Even = 9 (5+4) Odd = 10 (2 + 5 + 3) checksum = 17 (why he<BR>&gt; &gt; multiplies by 3 I don't quite know)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Transpose to 25453 Even = 10, Odd = 9 (2 + 4 + 3), checksum = 21...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; But wouldn't transposing two odd-positioned digits, or two<BR>&gt; even-positioned digits, then leave the checksum unaffected?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Richard<BR><BR>Yes, but 99.999% of transpositions are adjacent characters, or a<BR>completly wrong character.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 06:05:02 -0400<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Hull structures (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 08:04:36 +1000<BR>&gt;From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I'm 90% sure that the FFS3 combat system is going to involve (a) your<BR>&gt;effective gees = theoretical gees / (length modifier ^2), and (b) allowing<BR>&gt;you to avoid this with multiple sets of thrusters set at different angles,<BR>&gt;at the price of internal structure going up by some obscene amount (I'm<BR>&gt;playing with a multiplier of x^1.5 per dimension, where x is the gees thrust<BR>&gt;in each direction).<BR><BR>Off the top of my head (i.e., without checking the math in detail), I don't<BR>think this is necessary. The work I did on hull structures ["Hull<BR>structures and ship sizes," Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:21:24 -0500 (CDT)]<BR>explicitly assumed the worst case: that the ship's rated acceleration could<BR>come from any aspect, and would be applied at the extremes of its moment<BR>arm. In most cases, the resulting hull structure volume was comparable to<BR>values in the existing rules (FF&amp;S/FF&amp;S2). The exceptions were combinations<BR>of low material strength (steel or asteroidal nickel-iron), high overall<BR>density (3+ ston/dton), or high (5-6g) accelerations. The core text follows:<BR><BR>&gt;In accordance with SMAD III, there are actually two requirements that a<BR>&gt;hull must fulfill: strength and stability. That is, the structure must not<BR>&gt;only be strong enough to support the required loads, but it must also be<BR>&gt;stiff enough to resist buckling under them. These two requirements lead to<BR>&gt;two different formulae for hull structural volume (in m3):<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Strength:&nbsp; &nbsp; Structure = vol^(4/3) * a * p / (1000 * T)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Stability:&nbsp; &nbsp; Structure = vol^(1.15) * (a * p)^(0.453) / 300<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;where <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;vol = total displacement of hull, m3<BR>&gt;a&nbsp;&nbsp; = rated acceleration, g's<BR>&gt;p&nbsp;&nbsp; = mass density of vessel (loaded mass/volume), ston/m3<BR>&gt;T&nbsp;&nbsp; = Toughness, where hard steel = 2.86<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The actual structural volume is the greater of the two results. Structural<BR>&gt;mass is the volume multiplied by the density of the material.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The formula for strength is reasonably exact; note that the exponent is<BR>&gt;4/3, not 3/2 (as in FF&amp;S2). I derived the formula for stability<BR>&gt;empirically from the data -- the relationships are complex and (per SMAD<BR>&gt;III) practical experience has led to a number of necessary "fudges" to<BR>&gt;meet margins of safety. This formula overestimates the required volume for<BR>&gt;stability by up to 10% in some cases.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Strength requirements dominate for low-tech materials and very large or<BR>&gt;heavy vessels. Stability comes into play for small and light vessels using<BR>&gt;high-tech materials, which otherwise would have very thin (but<BR>&gt;strong) structural members.<BR><BR>Notice also that this level of resolution doesn't really distinguish<BR>between structural framework per se and hull armor material, which does<BR>contribute to strength and stability. I chose to ignore armor, because I<BR>couldn't come up with an adequate way to model impact forces from weapons<BR>(KKM's, x-ray induced shock and spalling from lasers and nukes, etc.).<BR><BR>If you really want to fiddle with something, though, work out the<BR>structural multipliers for hulls that aren't cylinders -- I haven't gottem<BR>back to do it yet. Just treat the hull as a free-standing column with the<BR>aft end (or wherever the drives are located) fixed, and work out the ratio<BR>of strength and stability between your chosen shape and a 3.5:1 cylinder of<BR>the same volume.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3127<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 06:23:22 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com ([204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 06:23:05 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id GAA61230;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 06:10:36 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 6 Oct 2000 06:06:08 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA60662<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 06:06:08 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 06:06:08 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010061006.GAA60662@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3127<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3128</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>10/6/00 8:21:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 6 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3128<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR>Re: Tigress Class<BR>Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR>Re: Czechsums<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3126<BR>Re: post font to alt newsgroup<BR>Ship combat<BR>Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>Re: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR>Planetary Navies - More Questions<BR>Re: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>RE: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR>RE: control of planetary navies<BR>RE: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR>RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>Re: Planetary Navies - More Questions<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:53:18 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;Anthony Jackson&gt;<BR>&gt; No, you just need to put your primary evasion thrusters somewhere other<BR>&gt; than on the back of your ship.&nbsp; The obvious design is a needle shape with<BR>&gt; thrusters pointing out one side.&nbsp; Structurally, this is no more difficult<BR>&gt; than putting thrusters at the end, as long as they are reasonably well<BR>&gt; balanced. <BR>&gt; &lt;/AJ&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But this still means that you can't accelerate towards or away from the<BR>&gt; enemy without exposing the fore and aft of the ship, so those would have<BR>&gt; to be armored.&nbsp; I don't think you could get away with just thrusting in<BR>&gt; the plane perpendicular to enemy fire.&nbsp; There's going to be the need to<BR>&gt; thrust in a variety of directions. <BR><BR>I forgot to mention *that* aspect of things in my "lecture" about<BR>steering jets. <BR><BR>The directions you have to point the nose or tail to chang course are a<BR>lot different than most folks would think. <BR><BR>My classic example. Your ship is heading north with a velocity of 2<BR>(nevermind, 2 *what* :-).<BR><BR>You want to wind up heading west at 2. You turn your ship so it is<BR>pointing *southwest*. And fire away until you are moving with the<BR>desired speed &amp; direction. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:15:11 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Katharine Whitchurch writes:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Not to mention that various rulesets notwithstanding, it isn't actually<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; necessary to give a vehicle equal armor on all faces.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; IMO this only works if you assume vectored thrusters. If you have to spin<BR>&gt;&gt; the ship to do evasion, then this becomes non-optimal pretty fast.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; No, you just need to put your primary evasion thrusters somewhere other than<BR>&gt; on the back of your ship. <BR><BR>No sane engineer would put them on the back. Steering jets are<BR>distributed in *pairs* such firing both n the same side moves you<BR>sideways, firing one on one side and one on the other (at opposite<BR>"ends" of the ship) turns the ship about it its center of mass (COM).<BR><BR>I use the word "ends" in quotes, because the jets have to be<BR>equidistant from the COM. Which, in most designs means that in some<BR>directions, you run out of hull in one direction, before you do in the<BR>opposite direction. And sticking one jet farther out than the other<BR>does interesting things to steering or to hull stress (or both).<BR><BR>Matter of fact the steering jets (or miniature thruster plates, or<BR>whatever), will likely be placed in sets of 5. Probably a standard (for<BR>that ship at least) package or module, so as to reduce the number of<BR>*different* spares you need.<BR><BR>Anyway, each set would have the following (assuming reaction jets):<BR><BR>1 jet pointing "out"<BR>1 jet pointing forward<BR>1 jet pointing backward<BR>1 jet pointing right<BR>1 jet pointing left<BR><BR>And there would be a minimum of 8 such sets installed. 4 at the nose<BR>and 4 at the tail, oriented at 90 degrees to each other (ie the "out"<BR>jets would point out in 4 directions, with a 90 degree angle between<BR>them). <BR><BR>Assuming a simple cylinder shape, you move the ship like this:<BR><BR>forward: fire at least 2 aft pointing jets on opposite sides of the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ship and at the same end. You can can add other pairs up to the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; full 8.<BR><BR>backward: fire at least 2 foreward pointing jets (etc)<BR><BR>"right": fire *both* of the "out" jets on the left side of the ship.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; You can add the 4 left pointing jets on the top and bottom<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; pairs of the fore &amp; aft "top &amp; bottom" sets. But *only* as a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; unit.&nbsp; Trying to add any single pair, will spin the ship in one<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; direction or another.<BR><BR>Left: the same except reverse left for right. :-)<BR><BR>"up" and down should be obvious now.<BR><BR>That covers the 3 degrees of translational movement. They are mostly<BR>used for docking &amp; rendezvous. They don't move the ship fast enough to<BR>be of any use in evading.<BR><BR>There are also 3 degrees of *rotational* movement. Roll, pitch, and<BR>yaw. <BR><BR>Roll: rotation about the axis that runs from bow to stern. (ie rocking<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; or rolling from right to left or vice versa). You roll the ship<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by using 2 or 4 jets at *both* the bow and stern (2 on opposite<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; sides, not 2 adjacent ones) firing jets pointing clockwise to<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; roll counter clockwise, or counter clockwise to roll clockwise.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll is only marginally useful for evasion unless your ship<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; isn't symmetrical about the roll axis (like a Star Wars Star<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Destroyer). If it is, then rolling can present a "side view"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; instead of a "top" or "bottom" view.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Roll is mostly used to reduce damage from a beam weapon (you<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; can't roll fast enough to have any noticeable effect on damage<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; from a pulse laser), and for getting things lined up for<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; docking.<BR><BR>Pitch: rotation about the axis that run from right to left. (ie bring<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the nose up while bringing the tail down or vice versa). You<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; pitch "up" by firing a "bottom" out-jet at the nose and a "top"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; out-jet at the tail. You can also fire the other jets pointed<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; in the right direction on the "sides" of the ship, but you have<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; to fire them "balanced".<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Pitch is useful for evasion, because it changes the direction<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; your main drive is pushing the ship. The main drive can move<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; the ship a lot farther and faster than the steering jets can.<BR><BR>Yaw: rotation about the "up/down" axis (ie swining the nose left and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the tail right, or vice versa). I asume I can skip the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; description of which jets you fire? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yaw is again useful for evasion by altering course. <BR><BR><BR>&gt; The obvious design is a needle shape with thrusters<BR>&gt; pointing out one side.&nbsp; Structurally, this is no more difficult than putting<BR>&gt; thrusters at the end, as long as they are reasonably well balanced.<BR><BR>It's also *necessary* if you want to steer the ship. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 00:59:03 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Charles Collin writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; But this still means that you can't accelerate towards or away from the<BR>&gt;&gt; enemy without exposing the fore and aft of the ship, so those would have<BR>&gt;&gt; to be armored.&nbsp; I don't think you could get away with just thrusting in<BR>&gt;&gt; the plane perpendicular to enemy fire.&nbsp; There's going to be the need to<BR>&gt;&gt; thrust in a variety of directions. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You can actually do without much manuevering ability while in combat; most of<BR>&gt; the position matching is going to be done from outside of weapons range.<BR><BR>I suggest that you sit down and *try* it. The Mayday game or the vector<BR>combat system from CT/MT will give you the idea in a hurry.<BR><BR>Basicly, unless you want to settle for firing a very few shots as you<BR>zip past at huge speeds, and then spend a *long* time working your way<BR>back to the target for either another pass or to board the wreck, you<BR>*have to be at rerasonably close velocities. Which means that you'll be<BR>in range for a *long* time.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:02:16 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Czechsums<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard wrote: <BR>&gt;&gt; No, he means even and odd *positions* in the number.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ah, thank you. I had a nagging feeling I was missing something.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -Russell "Second most pedantic poster to TML, why do you ask?" B<BR><BR>And who do you think is first (hint, not me!)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:04:45 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3126<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; on 10/5/00 8:47 PM,&nbsp; 22:55:08 +0100, "Matthew Bond"<BR>&gt; &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I think he meant even and odd as in position, not value...<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; ie 25543 Even = 9 (5+4) Odd = 10 (2 + 5 + 3) checksum = 17 (why he<BR>&gt;&gt; multiplies by 3 I don't quite know)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Transpose to 25453 Even = 10, Odd = 9 (2 + 4 + 3), checksum = 21...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; But wouldn't transposing two odd-positioned digits, or two<BR>&gt; even-positioned digits, then leave the checksum unaffected?<BR><BR>True. But when *copying* numbers or recalling them from memories, folks<BR>don't do that. They almost always transpose *adjacent* digits. <BR><BR>And when a number is "grouped" such as: 123-456-789, folks may swap<BR>adjacent *groups*. Which is why the Canadian postal codes are X#X #X#<BR>(or is it the other way around?). If you swap that, it's immediately<BR>obvious. <BR><BR>Likewise, 7-digit phone numbers ###-####. If you swap them, you get<BR>####-### and it's again obvious.<BR><BR>Less obvious is that until a few years agao, swapping the 3 digit<BR>exchange and the 3 digit areacode would *also* give a guaranteed<BR>invalid number. <BR><BR>Exchanges were NNX where N is 2-9, and X is 0-9.<BR>Areacodes were N0N or N1N. With N10 being used by the Telex system.<BR><BR>So 345 *could* be an areacode, and 302 couldn't be an exchange code.<BR><BR>Later, they started using N10 for areacodes as we ran out of the old<BR>kind, and they assigned the N00 codes for non-geographic codes. And N11<BR>would up as stuff like emergency (911), directory assistance (411 in<BR>many places) etc. <BR><BR>Even more recently they started using 0 and 1 as the second digit of<BR>exchanges. And eventually, they'll start using 0 &amp; 1 as the first digit<BR>of exchanges (at which point all calls will reqire that the areacode be<BR>dialed). <BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 01:19:03 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: post font to alt newsgroup<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;You'll get a good response (asnd maybe even a copy of the font if it's<BR>&gt;&gt;shareware or freeware) if you post a gif or jpeg of the sample to<BR>&gt;&gt;alt.binaries.fonts requesting identification and help in finding it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Argh! The latest PCUG mag says that since our ISP deal changed in the last 2<BR>&gt; mths or so, we were getting charged too much for the binaries groups - and<BR>&gt; they've dropped them. The hope is that they'll get them back from somewhere<BR>&gt; else, but that doesn't help right now.<BR><BR>There are sites that archive even the binaries groups.<BR><BR>&gt; Would someone be able to post the query to alt.binaries.fonts for me? I can <BR>&gt; send you an email with a pic of the font - or you can just grab one of the<BR>&gt; gifs from my website.<BR><BR>Try looking for a mail-to-news gateway. That'll get your post out. <BR><BR>I'f offer to do it, but I can't *post* for reasons to complicated to<BR>go into.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri,&nbsp; 6 Oct 2000 12:04:59 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: RCID - Alun Moon &lt;alun.moon@newcastle.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Ship combat<BR><BR>Following the discussion on Armour on Tigresses, and how a ship moves<BR>in combat, I thought I'd revisit some old notes I made.<BR><BR>Comments and thoughts please.<BR><BR>Some basics,<BR>In Book 2 the detection range for Starships is given as<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Detection range&nbsp; &nbsp; 1 light seconds (civilian)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Detection range&nbsp; &nbsp; 2 light seconds (military)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tracking range&nbsp; &nbsp; 3 light seconds<BR><BR>I take these to be the characteristics on the fire control system.<BR>Additional sensors, computers and good staff will perform better in<BR>the long range detection role.<BR><BR>Traveller space combat will be much like current day<BR>Anti-Submarine-Warfare (ASW).<BR><BR>Once the position of a ship is known it can be tracked.&nbsp; But to track<BR>it's position accurately would need an active system - radar.&nbsp; Active<BR>systems have two dissadvantages, first they give your position away,<BR>second they make good beacons for homing missiles - especially<BR>anti-radiation weapons.<BR><BR>Assuming you know the position, velocity vector and class of ship.&nbsp; If <BR>the ship does not manoeuvre, it is possible to predict its position<BR>accuratly for the duration of combat.&nbsp; The predicted position will<BR>have an error, the initial position and vector will not have been<BR>accuratly determined.&nbsp; You end up with a sphere of probability.<BR>&nbsp; (note: the error in vector measurement dominates)<BR><BR>If the ship manoeuvres, this changes things.<BR><BR>Over 1000s (1 turn) a ship manoeuvring at 1g can change its velocity<BR>by 10000m/s.&nbsp; Using a little basic physics <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; s = ut + 1/2 a t^2<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; s&nbsp; final position<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; u&nbsp; initial vector<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; t&nbsp; elapsed time&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; t^2 is t squared<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; a&nbsp; accelleration<BR><BR>The useful part is the last bit, in 1000s a 1g manoeuvre can change<BR>the predicted position by 5000000m that's 5000km.&nbsp; For a 6g warship<BR>this goes to 30 000km.&nbsp; Your final position of the warship can be<BR>anywhere within a sphere sixty-thousand-kilometers accross (Mars is<BR>66000km in diameter)<BR><BR>You can loose a ship *very* quickly.<BR><BR>Tracking a ship though is not as bad as that.&nbsp; You can detect the ship <BR>manoeuvring, take a quick peek with a radar, analyse the tactics to<BR>guess which portion of the probability sphere the ship is in.<BR><BR>This is why tracking a detected ship is a lot easier that detecting it <BR>in the first place - longer ranges.<BR><BR>Combat then in the early stage will be a cat-and-mouse game.&nbsp; Each<BR>Captain will be watching their holo-tank, opponents last known<BR>positions and vectors marked, and an ever expanding sphere of the<BR>probable positions.&nbsp; He will be reluctant to use active sensors to<BR>``localise'' the targets, but knows that at some point the probability <BR>shpere will be too large.&nbsp; Each ship will be using its drives to a<BR>minimum, to avoid detection (much as submarines run quiet).<BR><BR>- --<BR>Alun<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Words like `technology' stem from a Greek word, that means *art* as well as<BR>technology. <BR><BR>We are dreamers, shapers, singers, and makers.<BR>We study the mysteries of laser and circuit, crystal and scanner,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; holographic demons and invocations of equations.<BR>These are the tools we employ and we know many things.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- Elric to Captain Sheridan in Babylon 5<BR>___________________________________________________________________________<BR>Dr Alun Moon<BR>alun.moon@newcastle.ac.uk<BR>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:01:17 +0100 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR><BR>This came up recently on the Traveller Full Thrust list.&nbsp; Look at<BR>the pictire&nbsp; of&nbsp; the&nbsp; Kokirrak&nbsp; class&nbsp; dreadnaught.&nbsp; Now&nbsp; try&nbsp; to<BR>imagine a squadron of them doing barral rolls&nbsp; (or&nbsp; whatever)&nbsp; as<BR>they pound away at the enemy in combat.&nbsp; It would look ... silly.<BR>Then consider trying to dock fighters&nbsp; that&nbsp; return&nbsp; for&nbsp; reloads<BR>mid-fight, and look where the fighter bays&nbsp; are&nbsp; located&nbsp; on&nbsp; the<BR>Tigress, etc.&nbsp; If large ships&nbsp; rolled&nbsp; during&nbsp; combat&nbsp; then&nbsp; they<BR>should be radially symetrical and have non-spin sections.<BR><BR>I know there are canon references to ships rolling in combat&nbsp; but<BR>for *large* ships I just don't buy it.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 05:30:38 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR><BR>&gt;From: Glenn Myers &lt;glenn.myers@ansys.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: 15 mm SF miniatures Source?<BR>...<BR>&gt;Recently I participated in the ebay feeding frenzy over 15mm martian metals<BR><BR>&nbsp; You can still find Martian Metals stuff new in stores that have "junk<BR>trays" of OOP stock, although rather less so in Western Canada since I<BR>started filling the holes in my collection :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:59:27 GMT<BR>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Planetary Navies - More Questions<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 18:30:36 +1100 <BR>&gt;From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I have been hearing a lot that the colonial navy includes the planetary<BR>&gt;navy for this world, and seems to come under the control of the local<BR>&gt;Noblility. <BR><BR>The _Subsector_ navy comes under the control of the local Nobility<BR>(specifically, the Duke).&nbsp; I'm not personally aware of anything in<BR>canon that says that the _Planetary_ navy does.&nbsp; IMO, the planetary<BR>navy is paid for and controlled by the planetary government<BR>(naturally, subject to whatever restrictions the Imperium imposes).<BR>It's part of the Imperial contract - member worlds are granted<BR>autonomy and the right to self-defence, and that includes the right to<BR>maintain a fleet of their own.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Most such "fleets" will, of course, be comprised of SDBs and revenue<BR>cutters, search-and-rescue vessels, etc, but some worlds will build or<BR>buy starships - for the prestige, to create employment, to protect or<BR>dominate a colony in another system, to overawe a neighbour, or<BR>because they don't trust the Imperium to protect them in certain<BR>circumstances.<BR><BR>&gt;This has raised two interesting questions. (Well intersting to me<BR>&gt;anyway)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Does the President of Susten have any say in what to do with the<BR>&gt;Planetary Navy?<BR><BR>By my argument above, yes he does.&nbsp; He can do whatever he wants with<BR>the fleet, as long as he doesn't break High Imperial Law or his own<BR>planet's constitution.<BR><BR>&gt;What powers does the local noble for the world (Count Imanoble of<BR>&gt;Susten) hold?<BR><BR>Canonically, this can vary depending on the world.&nbsp; The primary role<BR>of the local noble is mostly that of an ambassador - s/he mediates<BR>between the planetary government and the higher Imperial nobility.<BR>The noble might be a trusted adviser and confidante of the government,<BR>or regarded with suspicion and kept at arm's length or ignored.<BR>Individual nobles might take an active role in the planet's government<BR>themselves, or even rule the world - in its early years the Imperium<BR>simply recognised many existing local dictators and potentates as the<BR>Imperial Noble for their planet, and of course most nobles will have a<BR>network of fiefs and subordinate nobles that gives them economic and<BR>political influence.<BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 06:02:41 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR><BR>- --- "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;Now&nbsp; try&nbsp; to imagine a squadron of them doing barral rolls&nbsp; (or <BR>whatever)&nbsp; as they pound away at the enemy in combat.&nbsp; It would look<BR>... silly.&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Murphy's Laws of Combat:&nbsp; If it's stupid (silly) and it works, It<BR>wasn't stupid.<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:40:13 -0400 <BR>From: Glenn Myers &lt;glenn.myers@ansys.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR><BR>I fully agree with Swordworlder's method of bidding on ebay. It has served<BR>me well in the past. This time, however, I was blown away fast. However, it<BR>has convinced me that I should auction some Traveller items which I have no<BR>intention of ever using again. And I'll use the proceeds to buy some things<BR>I want, hence the recent question on 15mm SF minis. <BR><BR>The only reason I wanted some of the martian metals figs is that 15 mm SF<BR>seems hard to find in the US. But they aren't worth *that* much to me. Part<BR>of the problem this time was that the offered items were still in the<BR>blisterpacks, loose miniatures can be had cheaply, (Alternate definition of<BR>"loose", I guess :-)). <BR><BR>Here is a question for the ebay savvy...<BR>What is the difference in the 3, 7 and 10 day auction? As a bidder I like<BR>them as short as possible. As a seller does the 10 day auction usually work<BR>out best? I was just wondering what insights others could offer.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Bye,<BR><BR>Glenn<BR><BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR>Glenn E. Myers<BR>ANSYS Inc.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Email: glenn.myers@ansys.com<BR>275 Technology Drive&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Phone: (724) 514-2913<BR>Canonsburg, PA 15317&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fax:&nbsp;&nbsp; (724) 514-3118<BR>______________________________________________________<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:15:51 -0400<BR>From: Eric Freitas &lt;ericfrei@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>Relativity is not relevant to Traveller.&nbsp; In Traveller we nimbly sidestep the<BR>entire issue of light speed, and FTL.&nbsp; We use shortcuts to jump around the<BR>Universe, much like a combination of wormholes and hyperspace.<BR><BR>Eric<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 07:17:51 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR><BR>&gt;From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR>...<BR>&gt;The proper way to bid, especially in a proxy system like ebay has, is to<BR>&gt;simply bid what the item is worth to you and let the chips fall where they may.<BR><BR>&nbsp; FWIW - and I've never bid on ebay - I've saved a lot of money (and won<BR>a lot of Trav items!) by bidding an item up a bit early, while keeping<BR>the price well within what I'm willing to pay; especially in smaller<BR>auctions that can scare off what little competition you would have faced.<BR><BR>&nbsp; OTOH, decide what an items maximum worth to you is, and be happy if you<BR>get it for less, but don't bitch too much if someone else wants it worse.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:24:25 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: control of planetary navies<BR><BR>Paul Harris writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;Does the President of Susten have any say in what to do with the<BR>&gt;Planetary Navy?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; IMHO, the president has as much say over the deployment<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; of the planetary navy as the planet's laws allow.&nbsp; Under <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; normal circumstances, the planetary navy is entirely under<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the control of the local government.<BR><BR>&gt;What powers does the local noble for the world (Count Imanoble of<BR>&gt;Susten) hold?<BR>&gt;Thanks.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The local noble represents the planet to the Imperium (again,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; IMHO).&nbsp; Thus, he/she has influence and would not generally be<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ignored, but has no direct control over the planetary navy<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; unless the Imperium granted such control in an emergency.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:52:49 +0100 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Glenn Myers [mailto:glenn.myers@ansys.com]<BR>&gt; Here is a question for the ebay savvy...<BR>&gt; What is the difference in the 3, 7 and 10 day auction? As a <BR>&gt; bidder I like<BR>&gt; them as short as possible. As a seller does the 10 day <BR>&gt; auction usually work<BR>&gt; out best? I was just wondering what insights others could offer.<BR><BR>If you are in a hurry, short auctions are slightly better I suppose, but<BR>you may end up with a winning bidder who stretches out the payment<BR>period anyway.<BR><BR>Longer auctions give more time for potential bidders to see the item.<BR><BR>Some long auctions will quickly reach a high bid level, and stay static<BR>for days, while others may sit there until a sudden flurry of bids near<BR>the end [which will happen irrespective of whether it was 3, 7, or 10<BR>days.<BR><BR>Some may even only get one or two bids anyway.<BR><BR>On the whole (and I can only speak as a bidder), I prefer 7 day<BR>auctions. 3 days I find too short, and 10 too long [though 10 is my<BR>second choice].<BR><BR>I don't see that there is much difference in final sale price for a 7 or<BR>10 day auction, and unless the item is rare and well publicised, I<BR>wouldn't expect 3 day actions to be as high priced. Also, if you do use<BR>a 3 day auction, remember that some people may only have internet access<BR>at work or school, so posting it on a Friday lunchtime is a bit daft, as<BR>unless people see it Friday afternoon or Monday morning, they won't be<BR>able to bid.<BR><BR>Try to time auction ends for sensible times. Remember that not everyone<BR>lives in the US...<BR><BR>As an often International bidder, I find it *really* annoying when items<BR>are listed US only, especially a smallish but rare/valuable item that<BR>could be easily sent in a fixed rate global priority envelope/box. [eg<BR>101 Robots. Usually goes for $50+, but for only $9 can be shipped to the<BR>UK in 2-4 days. $59 is ~40UKP. It costs me 8UKP ($11.60) just to get an<BR>IMO, so the $9 shipping is of little consequence (BTW, I already have<BR>101 Robots...)].<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:05:17 +0100 <BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 06 October 2000 12:01<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This came up recently on the Traveller Full Thrust list.&nbsp; Look at<BR>&gt; the picture&nbsp; of&nbsp; the&nbsp; Kokirrak&nbsp; class&nbsp; dreadnaught.&nbsp; Now&nbsp; try&nbsp; to<BR>&gt; imagine a squadron of them doing barrel rolls&nbsp; (or&nbsp; whatever)&nbsp; as<BR>&gt; they pound away at the enemy in combat.&nbsp; It would look ... silly.<BR>&gt; Then consider trying to dock fighters&nbsp; that&nbsp; return&nbsp; for&nbsp; reloads<BR>&gt; mid-fight, and look where the fighter bays&nbsp; are&nbsp; located&nbsp; on&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; Tigress, etc.&nbsp; If large ships&nbsp; rolled&nbsp; during&nbsp; combat&nbsp; then&nbsp; they<BR>&gt; should be radially symmetrical and have non-spin sections.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I know there are canon references to ships rolling in combat&nbsp; but<BR>&gt; for *large* ships I just don't buy it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR><BR>So the fighters have to match the roll when vectoring for approach...<BR>big deal.<BR><BR>Even if the Carrier hasn't rolled during the mission, the fighter almost<BR>certainly has, so it has to roll at some point anyway to dock.<BR><BR>It isn't that difficult to dock with a rolling target... Remember Elite?<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:31:09 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Planetary Navies - More Questions<BR><BR>&gt; From: Paul Harris <BR>&gt; Planet Susten is ... a democratic republic. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have been hearing a lot that the colonial navy includes the planetary<BR>&gt; navy for this world, and seems to come under the control of the local<BR>&gt; Noblility. <BR>...<BR>&gt; Does the President of Susten have any say in what to do with the<BR>&gt; Planetary Navy?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What powers does the local noble for the world (Count Imanoble of<BR>&gt; Susten) hold?<BR><BR>Well, there are, of course, different interpretations of the role of the<BR>nobility on the list.<BR><BR>My approach would be that the Susten government (including the Pres)<BR>controls the Planetary Navy, just like they control the Planetary Army. <BR>Under certain circumstances elements of both forces might be imperialised,<BR>but this would usually involve a certain amount of negotiation.&nbsp; (I<BR>generally have the Imperium treating its member worlds with a great degree<BR>of tact, as tact is usually cheaper than warfare.)<BR><BR>Powers of the local noble?&nbsp; Well, this depends on the government.&nbsp; I should<BR>explain here that my view of the nobility is that they are fundamentally<BR>local leaders, rather than a bunch of Imperial diplomats, which is how some<BR>other people on the list seem to see them.&nbsp; <BR><BR>The most usual models I use for democratic states are constitutional<BR>monarchies:&nbsp; the senior local noble is figurehead head of state.&nbsp; Republics<BR>are trickier.&nbsp; Generally I don't have a single local noble with real power.<BR>Instead, I assume that in this case the President of Susten would be<BR>knighted on election, since their election implies that they are important<BR>enough to be included in the nobility.&nbsp; (*)&nbsp; Of course, a serving President<BR>would also perhaps be treated as the equivalent of a Baron or Marquis while<BR>they are in office, and only fall back to their "real" status after they<BR>leave office.<BR><BR>Of course, Count Imanoble might still be out there.&nbsp; Probably he wouldn't<BR>have any real power at all.&nbsp; In fact, he might never have set foot on<BR>Susten in his life.&nbsp; Alternatively, Susten's constitution might be some<BR>messy hodgepodge, where the Republican government runs the planetary<BR>surface and the Army, while Count Imanoble runs the highport, a bunch of<BR>orbital stations and the Navy.&nbsp; I recall some arrangement like this being<BR>described as having existed on Sylea at on point prior to the rise of the<BR>Imperium.<BR><BR>Another possible option is that the elements of the Imperial agencies<BR>(services like the Scouts and ministries like the Ministry of Justice)<BR>present on Susten might be under the authority of the Count.&nbsp; This wouldn't<BR>usually give him any authority over the use of the Susten military, but<BR>might give him access to some resources of his own.<BR><BR>But then, if Count Imanoble is rich enough, he might have his own Huscarle<BR>forces separate from the planetary forces - and these might include ships,<BR>fighter and SDBs!&nbsp; At this point we are heading into balkanisation<BR>territory though, and it's late at night...<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>(*) This kind of happens in Papua New Guinea, where the Governor-General<BR>conventionally is knighted on appointment.&nbsp; This gets extra tricky when the<BR>GG has multiple wives though - only one gets to be called Lady.&nbsp; No, PNG<BR>hasn't had a female GG yet...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3128<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 6 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3129<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Path of Tears<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Interesting Trav Item<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Re: Jump speed<BR>Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR>Re: Jump speed<BR>Dumb question<BR>RE: Emergency<BR>re:&nbsp; Rolling ships <BR>Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR>Re: Dumb question<BR>Re: Interesting Trav Item<BR>RE: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Re: Emergency<BR>Re: Ship combat<BR>unsubscribe<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:59:18 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Path of Tears<BR><BR>&gt; From: Brandon Cope <BR>&gt; Has anyone used this book? I'm considering adapting it to a GURPS space<BR>&gt; campaign and replacing the virus with a robotic race (or more correctly,<BR>&gt; the robot servitors of a long extinct race) and changing the names of the<BR>&gt; interstallar powers. In some ways, it is similar to the first Traveller<BR>&gt; campaign I ran some 17 years ago, with pocket empires emerging from a<BR>&gt; 300-400 year Second Long Night.<BR><BR>I didn't do a whole lot of TNE, and kept changing my preferred setting<BR>around when I did, but I thought POT was pretty cool, and eminently<BR>milkable.&nbsp; It's good - there is stuff that can be stolen for a whole lot of<BR>games, and the TNE system specific stuff is very light on.<BR><BR>The only thing that bugged me a little was that the most interesting part<BR>of the setting - the main including Kide and Montezuma was (a) part of the<BR>*&amp;^%ing Vampire Highway, and (b) really close to the RC, so the wonderful<BR>Arturo of Kide could never really succeed in building a Pocket Empire. <BR>Such a shame:&nbsp; I always thought that the thought of having a yahoo dictator<BR>defending civilisation was much more interesting than the alternatives. <BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:02:00 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>I, for one, could truly accept TNE if it didn't destroy the 3I in the<BR>"mainstream" timeline, but instead constiututed another legitimate<BR>"possible" future. I think that would be best to freeze the legitimate the<BR>timelines with CT/GT, MT, and TNE though.&nbsp; This would potentially set up a<BR>"Star-Trek-esqe" scenario for visiting the alternates.&nbsp; Interesting perhaps,<BR>but I probably wouldn't use it much.<BR><BR>I would have preferred to see the Rebellion/Hard Times grind the 3I down<BR>over a period of many years.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:14:59 -0400 <BR>From: Bob Kovalchick &lt;Kovalchick@wbgh.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Interesting Trav Item<BR><BR>(Not a plug) With all this talk about eBay I decided to look around to see<BR>what stuff was up for auction. While going thru the Games section I found an<BR>interesting item. It's the first, and only, issue of something called<BR>Imperial Lines, a newsletter that GDW put out for MegaTraveller but<BR>cancelled the project. From the description, it has a map of the Foreven<BR>Sector. Has anyone heard about this newsletter? What happened to the<BR>project?<BR><BR>Here is the item number: 454817925<BR><BR><BR>Bob Kovalchick<BR>Washington Business Group on Health<BR>E: kovalchick@wbgh.org &lt;mailto:kovalchick@wbgh.org&gt; <BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; -----Original Message-----<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; From:&nbsp; &nbsp; Matt Bond [SMTP:MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sent:&nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 06, 2000 10:53 AM<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; To:&nbsp; &nbsp; 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Subject:&nbsp; &nbsp; RE: Trav on eBay post-mortem (auction fever!)<BR><BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; From: Glenn Myers [mailto:glenn.myers@ansys.com]<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; Here is a question for the ebay savvy...<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; What is the difference in the 3, 7 and 10 day auction? As a <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; bidder I like<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; them as short as possible. As a seller does the 10 day <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; auction usually work<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &gt; out best? I was just wondering what insights others could offer.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; If you are in a hurry, short auctions are slightly better I suppose,<BR>but<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; you may end up with a winning bidder who stretches out the payment<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; period anyway.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Longer auctions give more time for potential bidders to see the<BR>item.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Some long auctions will quickly reach a high bid level, and stay<BR>static<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for days, while others may sit there until a sudden flurry of bids<BR>near<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; the end [which will happen irrespective of whether it was 3, 7, or<BR>10<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; days.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Some may even only get one or two bids anyway.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; On the whole (and I can only speak as a bidder), I prefer 7 day<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; auctions. 3 days I find too short, and 10 too long [though 10 is my<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; second choice].<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I don't see that there is much difference in final sale price for a<BR>7 or<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 10 day auction, and unless the item is rare and well publicised, I<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; wouldn't expect 3 day actions to be as high priced. Also, if you do<BR>use<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; a 3 day auction, remember that some people may only have internet<BR>access<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; at work or school, so posting it on a Friday lunchtime is a bit<BR>daft, as<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; unless people see it Friday afternoon or Monday morning, they won't<BR>be<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; able to bid.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Try to time auction ends for sensible times. Remember that not<BR>everyone<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; lives in the US...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; As an often International bidder, I find it *really* annoying when<BR>items<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; are listed US only, especially a smallish but rare/valuable item<BR>that<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; could be easily sent in a fixed rate global priority envelope/box.<BR>[eg<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 101 Robots. Usually goes for $50+, but for only $9 can be shipped to<BR>the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; UK in 2-4 days. $59 is ~40UKP. It costs me 8UKP ($11.60) just to get<BR>an<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; IMO, so the $9 shipping is of little consequence (BTW, I already<BR>have<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 101 Robots...)].<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:21:17 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>I neglected to add..."with the whole thing ending in an alliance of some<BR>sort that makes a definitive victory possible by two or more of the factions<BR>and restores the 3I".<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 11:02 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I, for one, could truly accept TNE if it didn't destroy the 3I in the<BR>&gt; "mainstream" timeline, but instead constiututed another legitimate<BR>&gt; "possible" future. I think that would be best to freeze the legitimate the<BR>&gt; timelines with CT/GT, MT, and TNE though.&nbsp; This would potentially set up a<BR>&gt; "Star-Trek-esqe" scenario for visiting the alternates.&nbsp; Interesting<BR>perhaps,<BR>&gt; but I probably wouldn't use it much.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I would have preferred to see the Rebellion/Hard Times grind the 3I down<BR>&gt; over a period of many years.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -Dan Lane<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:50:26 -0700 <BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR><BR>&gt;From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Rod wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Because you can<BR>&gt;&gt;jump to a system even if that system is 'hidden' by the mass of the star -<BR>&gt;&gt;you are not moving through 3 dimensional space, you are moving outside of<BR>it<BR>&gt;&gt;and then dropping back in.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, you can't. These systems are masked by that star's 100D limit.<BR>For<BR>&gt;example, from outside the Sol system you can jump to Mars (unconfined<BR>j-point),<BR>&gt;or to one-half of Earth's 100d limit (partially confined j-point) but not<BR>to<BR>&gt;Venus or Mercury (both fully confined j-points).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If you targetted Mercury, your ship would precipitate out of j-space,<BR>violently.<BR>&gt;This is one form of misjump, albiet not a random one. ;-)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; This I understand, am aware of, and have no problem with.&nbsp; You<BR>cannot end a jump within the 100d limit of an object, but: <BR><BR>&gt;And in G:T, Marc has added another twist: jump masking. Something I don't<BR>like,<BR>&gt;personally, preferring the jump-point cascade rules from Leroy's "From Port<BR>To<BR>&gt;Jump-point" JTAS article (which is also a rule that assists with the<BR>p-word, as<BR>&gt;it happens!).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I would really like to know the rationale behind this.&nbsp; (I know, I<BR>know....Marc, I will quote you directly from your Basic Traveller seminar at<BR>Origins 1981:&nbsp; "...If I knew how it worked I'd go out and build one, I<BR>wouldn't write rules about it"), Not the 'scientific' rationale (I could<BR>come up with one if pressed - in jumpspace, gravity wells are reversed and<BR>become these 'peaks', and you need a straight shot or you will precipitate<BR>out when you brush the first one), but the game reason.&nbsp; Was there some<BR>element of play balance or a future plot development that required this?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; This also brings up the question of "How big does something have to<BR>get before you worry about being within 100d of it?"&nbsp; It would truely suck<BR>to find yourself dumped out of jumpspace two lightyears from anywhere<BR>because your course happened to run smack into a dustmote or a free hydrogen<BR>ion.&nbsp; Or p*rates could dump a large load of gravel in the outer system on<BR>the course between two frequently-travelled systems (I am reminded of that<BR>Larry Niven story about the evil genius that used a quantum black hole to<BR>suck ships out of hyperspace).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; As for that JTAS article, I'll have to read it tonight after the<BR>gig...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- --------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:00:20 -0700 <BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;-- but, on the other hand, I hope they don't wise up (or<BR>&gt;lose interest) before it's my turn to start selling...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Trent<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;lol&gt; - I have joked to my wife that I don't need an insurance<BR>policy:&nbsp; if I die, she can just sell all my games and military history books<BR>on eBay.&nbsp; After seeing what a copy of Ringworld went for, even without the<BR>Ringworld Companion, I think there is more truth than joke to this (..and,<BR>yes, I have the Companion, too).&nbsp; I've even given some serious thought to<BR>typing up the blurb ahead of time and putting it in the box/inside cover, so<BR>she knows exactly what the item is.&nbsp; Then again, that would be too much like<BR>making out a will, and I don't think I am _quite_ ready to give up the last<BR>vestiges of my youthful illusions of immortality.&nbsp; ;o)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ----------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:01:34 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>Hello to the list.<BR><BR>I bought and played MegaTraveller, but I felt I'd lost more than I'd<BR>gained, both in terms of rules and in terms of the possibilities<BR>afforded by the setting. I liked the openness of Traveller. MT's<BR>politics and TNE's survivalism left me a little cold. 5E should<BR>decanonicize TNE and seriously consider having the/an Imperium recover<BR>from Hard Times.<BR><BR>- - Rob (ducking).<BR><BR>Dan Lane wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I would have preferred to see the Rebellion/Hard Times grind the 3I down<BR>&gt; over a period of many years.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/&nbsp;&nbsp; H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.<BR>"What exactly do otters ott? Why won't they tell us?"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:00:31 +0100 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR><BR>Matt Bond wrote:<BR>&gt; So the fighters have to match the roll when vectoring for<BR>&gt; approach... big deal.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Even if the Carrier hasn't rolled during the mission, the<BR>&gt; fighter almost certainly has, so it has to roll at some point<BR>&gt; anyway to dock.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It isn't that difficult to dock with a rolling target... <BR>&gt; Remember Elite?<BR><BR>First off, I'm thinking of&nbsp; a&nbsp; fighter&nbsp; having&nbsp; to&nbsp; dock&nbsp; with&nbsp; a<BR>roll*ing* ship&nbsp; (I&nbsp; did&nbsp; specify&nbsp; "mid-fight").&nbsp; Second,&nbsp; if&nbsp; the<BR>docking bay is on the axis of rotation (as in "Elite")&nbsp; then&nbsp; yes<BR>this is easy.&nbsp; But looking at most of the pictures of large ships<BR>we have the docking bay is off-center ... so not&nbsp; only&nbsp; does&nbsp; the<BR>docking fighter have to match rotation&nbsp; rates&nbsp; but&nbsp; also&nbsp; has&nbsp; to<BR>follow a moving (in a circle)&nbsp; docking&nbsp; bay&nbsp; (requiring&nbsp; constant<BR>course corrections) ... and in the case of the Tigress come in at<BR>an angle too!&nbsp; Quite a tricky and&nbsp; hazardous&nbsp; maneouver&nbsp; ...&nbsp; and<BR>unwise if the fighter has sustained *any* kind of combat damage.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR>(Besides, I always used to crash into the staion in Elite!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:07:04 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>Sounds good.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>Dan Lane wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I neglected to add..."with the whole thing ending in an alliance of some<BR>&gt; sort that makes a definitive victory possible by two or more of the factions<BR>&gt; and restores the 3I".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/&nbsp;&nbsp; H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.<BR>"What exactly do otters ott? Why won't they tell us?"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:18:23 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Armor Distribution on Starships (was Re: Tigress Class)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; I suggest that you sit down and *try* it. The Mayday game or the vector<BR>&gt; combat system from CT/MT will give you the idea in a hurry.<BR><BR>Assuming you believe their combat system, sure.&nbsp; The turn lengths in standard<BR>traveller space combat are ridiculous.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Basicly, unless you want to settle for firing a very few shots as you<BR>&gt; zip past at huge speeds, and then spend a *long* time working your way<BR>&gt; back to the target for either another pass or to board the wreck, you<BR>&gt; *have to be at rerasonably close velocities. Which means that you'll be<BR>&gt; in range for a *long* time.<BR><BR>Yah, so?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:31:07 EDT<BR>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/6/00 11:02:56 AM Central Daylight Time, rgb@odetics.com <BR>writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;&nbsp; This also brings up the question of "How big does something have to<BR>get before you worry about being within 100d of it?"&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>My thought is that an object has to be bigger than you in order to have a <BR>100D effect on you while in jump space. Thus, a 200 ton asteroid wandering <BR>out in space might precipitate you out of jump space if you came within 100D <BR>of it during jump from Sol to Alpha Centauri. But random hydrogen atons would <BR>have no effect. Theoretically, this makes bigger ships safer in jump.<BR><BR>Marc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:46:02 +0100 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Dumb question<BR><BR>A friend of mine asked me how he can subscribe to the TML and&nbsp; it<BR>occured to me that since the domain change I no longer&nbsp; know&nbsp; the<BR>answer.&nbsp; So how do you subscribe to the TML?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 09:50:26 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Emergency<BR><BR>&gt;From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Due to a fire, some 2nd degree burns, a new job, and a stainless steal<BR>bitch<BR>&gt;of a cold or some other bug that literally dropped me for two days, I was<BR><BR>Get well soon!&nbsp; It's a helluva job orientation where they burn you and<BR>infect you with a major virus.&nbsp; I hope the pay and stock options are good.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:01:56 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re:&nbsp; Rolling ships <BR><BR>&gt;From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR><BR>&gt;This came up recently on the Traveller Full Thrust list.&nbsp; Look at the<BR>pictire&nbsp; of&nbsp; the&nbsp; Kokirrak&nbsp; &gt;class&nbsp; dreadnaught.&nbsp; Now&nbsp; try&nbsp; to imagine a<BR>squadron of them doing barral rolls&nbsp; (or&nbsp; whatever)&nbsp; &gt;as they pound away at<BR>the enemy in combat.&nbsp; It would look ... silly.<BR><BR>Nothing looks silly if it can kill you and vaporize your ship in seconds.<BR>Don't think about how it will look to a contemporary movie audience.<BR><BR>&gt;Then consider trying to dock fighters&nbsp; that&nbsp; return&nbsp; for&nbsp; reloads<BR>mid-fight, and look where the &gt;fighter bays&nbsp; are&nbsp; located&nbsp; on&nbsp; the Tigress,<BR>etc.&nbsp; If large ships&nbsp; rolled&nbsp; during&nbsp; combat&nbsp; then&nbsp; &gt;they should be radially<BR>symetrical and have non-spin sections.<BR><BR>Fighters don't have much of a role in fighting big ships anyway.&nbsp; Their<BR>weapons just can't penetrate (at least under High Guard).&nbsp; If they were<BR>launched, it was for some purpose other than attacking enemy capital ships,<BR>so this is not an inevitable tactical problem for squadron and fleet<BR>engagements.<BR><BR>Dedicated fighter carriers help solve the problem of ships of the line<BR>having to drop out to pick up tired and ammo-depleted fighter pilots.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:58:40 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR><BR>I have mint copies of both.&nbsp; Jeez, what DID they go for?<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Rodney Basler" &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 12:00 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Trent Smith" &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Trav on eBay post-mortem<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;-- but, on the other hand, I hope they don't wise up (or<BR>&gt; &gt;lose interest) before it's my turn to start selling...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Trent<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;lol&gt; - I have joked to my wife that I don't need an insurance<BR>&gt; policy:&nbsp; if I die, she can just sell all my games and military history<BR>books<BR>&gt; on eBay.&nbsp; After seeing what a copy of Ringworld went for, even without the<BR>&gt; Ringworld Companion, I think there is more truth than joke to this (..and,<BR>&gt; yes, I have the Companion, too).&nbsp; I've even given some serious thought to<BR>&gt; typing up the blurb ahead of time and putting it in the box/inside cover,<BR>so<BR>&gt; she knows exactly what the item is.&nbsp; Then again, that would be too much<BR>like<BR>&gt; making out a will, and I don't think I am _quite_ ready to give up the<BR>last<BR>&gt; vestiges of my youthful illusions of immortality.&nbsp; ;o)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>&gt; ----------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to<BR>think.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri,&nbsp; 6 Oct 2000 12:07:25 -0500<BR>From: "Brandon Cope" &lt;copeab@mail.elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dumb question<BR><BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;A friend of mine asked me how he can subscribe to the TML and&nbsp; it<BR>&gt;occured to me that since the domain change I no longer&nbsp; know&nbsp; the<BR>&gt;answer.&nbsp; So how do you subscribe to the TML?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>IIRC<BR><BR>send an e-mail to:<BR><BR>majordomo@lists.ient.com<BR><BR>The first (and only) line in the e-mail should be:<BR><BR>subscribe traveller<BR><BR>You (or your friend) will then get an e-mail asking for confirmation (follow the instructions given).<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:12:15 -0700<BR>From: "J. Paul Sanders" &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Interesting Trav Item<BR><BR>At 11:14 AM 10/6/00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;(Not a plug) With all this talk about eBay I decided to look around to see<BR>&gt;what stuff was up for auction. While going thru the Games section I found an<BR>&gt;interesting item. It's the first, and only, issue of something called<BR>&gt;Imperial Lines, a newsletter that GDW put out for MegaTraveller but<BR>&gt;cancelled the project. From the description, it has a map of the Foreven<BR>&gt;Sector. Has anyone heard about this newsletter? What happened to the<BR>&gt;project?<BR><BR>Issues 1 and then 2 of Imperial Lines were actually published. Issue 3 &amp; 4<BR>(a combined issue) was ready for publication (I have a proof copy), but<BR>never actually printed. As for what happened - Imperial Lines was geared<BR>towards MT, and the advent of a particularly foul Virus known as TNE killed<BR>it (pun intended). <BR><BR>L8r,<BR>Paul<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 18:14:58 +0100 <BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>Rob Myers wrote:<BR>&gt; I bought and played MegaTraveller, but I felt I'd lost more than I'd<BR>&gt; gained, both in terms of rules and in terms of the possibilities<BR>&gt; afforded by the setting. I liked the openness of Traveller. MT's<BR>&gt; politics and TNE's survivalism left me a little cold. 5E should<BR>&gt; decanonicize TNE and seriously consider having the/an Imperium recover<BR>&gt; from Hard Times.<BR><BR>For rules I use MT 'lite' ... basically its more coherant than CT<BR>and resolves some of my minor niggles (like the armour&nbsp; rules&nbsp; in<BR>personal combat).&nbsp; But I don't use the MT background: I love&nbsp; the<BR>3I and the Rebellion was about its destruction in a&nbsp; depressingly<BR>believable&nbsp; way.&nbsp; On&nbsp; the&nbsp; other&nbsp; hand&nbsp; I&nbsp; also&nbsp; feel&nbsp; that&nbsp;&nbsp; the<BR>resolution of the 5FW (where basically nothing changed) was a cop<BR>out.&nbsp; I would have liked to see the 5FW end with a more&nbsp; dramatic<BR>change ... perhaps the Jewells under&nbsp; Zhodani&nbsp; occupation&nbsp; and&nbsp; a<BR>much larger Sword Worlds.&nbsp; Then, instead of the post-5FW "what do<BR>we do next ... lets have&nbsp; a&nbsp; rebellion"&nbsp; situation,&nbsp; you&nbsp; have&nbsp; a<BR>"helping&nbsp; the&nbsp; resistance&nbsp; fighters&nbsp; and&nbsp; rebuild&nbsp; the&nbsp;&nbsp; Imperial<BR>defenses" situation.<BR><BR>IMTU the 5FW ends with a coup in the Sword&nbsp; Worlds&nbsp; which&nbsp; leaves<BR>Sacnoth/Sting/Narsil in power over Gram/Joyeuse and the&nbsp; SW&nbsp; then<BR>expands into&nbsp; District&nbsp; 268,&nbsp; and&nbsp; forms&nbsp; an&nbsp; alliance&nbsp; with&nbsp; the<BR>Darrians (this&nbsp; has&nbsp; been&nbsp; building&nbsp; for&nbsp; some&nbsp; time).&nbsp; The&nbsp; Five<BR>Sisters are now somewhat&nbsp; isolated!&nbsp; The&nbsp; Zhodani&nbsp; don't&nbsp; advance<BR>their border, but the destruction to the&nbsp; Imperial&nbsp; part&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>Spinward Marches is a mini black war ... not&nbsp; quite&nbsp; Hard&nbsp; Times.<BR>With the readily available military gear and the&nbsp; local&nbsp; elements<BR>of the IN smashed there&nbsp; is&nbsp; an&nbsp; excess&nbsp; of&nbsp; ethically-challenged<BR>merchants, and other chicanery.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:23:16 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Emergency<BR><BR>Damn Glenn, I had been going along just fine for months now but chalk<BR>yourself up a keyboard. I didn't splort but I had my coffee cup in hand and<BR>laughed so hard I spilled it onto the whole desk top w/keyboard! I even made<BR>it past the great line Doug Berry used the other day but you got me<BR>today....I think it hit kinda close to home, reminded me of the first time I<BR>re-enlisted in the Army and the bastards sent me to Viet Nam. After the 3rd<BR>month I wound up in the hospital with some minor leaks and jungle rot of the<BR>toes. BTW, the toes took longer to heal....<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>To: "Traveller-Digest" &lt;traveller-digest@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 12:50 PM<BR>Subject: RE: Emergency<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Due to a fire, some 2nd degree burns, a new job, and a stainless steal<BR>&gt; bitch<BR>&gt; &gt;of a cold or some other bug that literally dropped me for two days, I was<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Get well soon!&nbsp; It's a helluva job orientation where they burn you and<BR>&gt; infect you with a major virus.&nbsp; I hope the pay and stock options are good.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:24:47 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Ship combat<BR><BR>RCID - Alun Moon writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Traveller space combat will be much like current day<BR>&gt; Anti-Submarine-Warfare (ASW).<BR><BR>Actually, if you use realistic sensor ranges, it's more like two guys with <BR>guns on a perfectly flat field with no cover anywhere.<BR><BR>If you drop grav focusing, it instead resembles two people with automatic<BR>weapons shooting at one another from ten feet ;)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 10:24:21 -0700<BR>From: Thomas Lawnsby &lt;tsculler@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: unsubscribe<BR><BR>unsubscribe<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:55:44 -0500<BR>From: "Pat Connaughton" &lt;patconnaughton@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR><BR>In re: Rob Myers anit-paean for TNE;<BR><BR>I've played Traveller since the beginning,<BR>starting with a couple little black books we<BR>got at our gamestore in Webster Groves, MO<BR>as demo's to show off a new game..and my<BR>friends and I have been playing ever since.<BR><BR>I'd like to qoute from a good fellows website<BR>(Don McKinney). The attached rant is attributed to<BR>Mike Metlay and I, strongly, support the concept.<BR>I like RPG's and have no bones about playing any game.<BR>but I never did care much for TNE.<BR><BR>Feel free stop reading new, if you like.<BR>Thanks<BR>Pat Connaughton<BR>e-mail - patconnaughton@earthlink.net<BR>homepage - www.home.earthink.net/~patconnaughton<BR>ICQ # 2535086<BR>"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>how to reign"<BR>Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR><BR>Bundle: 457<BR>Archive-Message-Number: 5440<BR>From: metlay@netcom.com (metlay)<BR>Subject: First thoughts after reading _Survival Margin_<BR>Date: Mon, 10 May 93 10:44:28 PDT<BR><BR>"A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation and bitter weeping...she is <BR>weeping for her children, refusing to be comforted, for they are no more."<BR><BR>Hi, gang. Let me start off by thanking Loren Wiseman for his prompt note<BR>about the print run of TNE; such news is always appreciated.<BR><BR>I read _Survival Margin_ from cover to cover on Saturday, and spent a <BR>surprising (to me, anyway) portion of the next two days brooding.<BR>SM (and _Arrival Vengeance_, which I got at the same time) affected<BR>me very deeply, in a way no Traveller book has done since the Rebellion<BR>began. While I applaud Dave Nilsen for at least being able to do THAT,<BR>I am saddened by the fact that the emotions he evoked were those of<BR>revulsion, disgust, and yes, even hatred.<BR><BR>I hate this game setting. I just hate it.<BR><BR>I want to make very clear what I am saying here, and make even MORE<BR>clear what I am NOT saying here. I am not saying that GDW produced yet<BR>another substandard piece of Traveller material. Far from it; I think<BR>that SM was excellently put together, clearly organized, and<BR>accomplished its task, namely as a bridge from MegaTraveller to TNE,<BR>eloquently and effectively.&nbsp; Its reprinting of previously published<BR>material meshed very well with the newly written pieces and produced a<BR>coherent and useful whole that was a very worthwhile read. The<BR>behind-the-scenes journals and extra data filled in a lot of holes<BR>that I had wondered about, and finally removed IRIS as a de jure (if<BR>not de facto) force in the Imperium, a move which alone is worth the<BR>price of the book. I will ignore for the moment my personal disgust at<BR>the utterly pointless annihilation of the Antares Regency (my own<BR>favorite spot in the MegaTraveller milieu), and simply say that if<BR>future releases hold to this level of quality, I will gladly give GDW<BR>my business and encourage others to do so as well. I am also not<BR>saying, although some mean-spirited part of me would LIKE to, that<BR>this is the final nail in Traveller's coffin as a rules system. I<BR>think that in the light of the current market trends in RPGs, GDW is<BR>making a very wise move here in updating Traveller from its admittedly<BR>long-in-the-tooth beginnings and attempting to compete on a<BR>fundamental level with the heavy hitters like GURPS and Shadowrun. If<BR>the prior problems of poor proofreading and unprofessional artwork are<BR>licked, and it looks as good as SM reads, then I think that GDW will<BR>have a solid competitor on its hands, and I wish them well.<BR><BR>What I AM saying is that I hate the game setting. HATE IT!<BR><BR>On the Pocket Empire mailing list, we have held our breaths for<BR>months, pausing in midstride as we waited for GDW to officialize the<BR>tantalizing hints we received about how things are to work. We do not<BR>agree 100% with the decisions made there, but we are abiding by them,<BR>and the list is now swinging into high gear, awaiting only the rules<BR>themselves to begin applying hard numbers to the ideas and frameworks<BR>we have devised. Why, then, am I suddenly completely uninterested in<BR>doing any more work there? I don't want to let these people down; my<BR>contribution is admittedly small but I would like to think that it is<BR>important enough not to simply drop without notice. What has happened?<BR><BR>What has happened is that I have seen the future and it STINKS.<BR><BR>I am not stating facts here. Only my opinions. And I loved the classic<BR>Traveller universe. It was civilized; it was intelligent; it had solid<BR>background and a sense of depth to it that other games lacked. This<BR>was a huge, exciting, beautiful universe, from the Core to the Rim,<BR>from spinward to trailing! There was so much to see and do, so many<BR>different kinds of life to reflect, so many possible campaigns to run.<BR>It was balanced; it gave characters a chance for excitement and fun at<BR>whatever power level they wanted, up to and sometimes even including<BR>the governance of whole worlds. And, pivotal to any long-standing<BR>campaign with realistic characters, it allowed people to rest once in<BR>a while.&nbsp; There were places one could go to relax and enjoy the beauty<BR>and wonder of this universe, and if adventure sneaked up on you while<BR>you were working on your tan, so much the better.<BR><BR>Now, what do we have? A map of the Imperium smeared with grey paint,<BR>with a big black SPLOTCH in the middle and a little chunk in one<BR>corner or another that the paintbrush didn't reach. The grandeur of<BR>Capital, the intrigue and espionage of the Solomani Rim, the exciting<BR>new possibilities of the Hinterworlds and Gateway, the battle and<BR>diplomacy of Reaver's Deep, the worldshattering implications of the<BR>Aslan revelations, the horrible reality of the K'Kree and their plans<BR>for humaniti-- all gone. Nothing left but piles of dead bodies and<BR>rusted metal, scrabbled over by bands of savages and man-eating<BR>computers. Big fat hairy goddamn deal. <BR><BR>It just makes no sense to me on an artistic level. I know why they did<BR>it. I've read their reports and I've tried, believe me, to support<BR>them as wholeheartedly as I did in 1987 before I read about the<BR>assassination of Strephon and watched the universe to which I'd<BR>devoted years of my gaming career start to unravel. But it just makes<BR>no sense. If all they wanted was a ruined-empire universe where<BR>everything was forgotten, why not hire some writers and build one from<BR>scratch?&nbsp; FASA did that with the BattleTech universe, and did very<BR>well for themselves: no one yearned for the Star League when the game<BR>was predicated on its aftermath. Why did they feel the need to hack up<BR>the best gaming campaign setting in the history of roleplaying and<BR>throw the carcass to the vultures? It wasn't necessary. It really<BR>accomplished nothing, except to absolve GDW of responsibility for<BR>maintaining consistency in a game universe that had grown too large<BR>for them to control. It substituted grand, far-reaching excitement for<BR>petty, animalistic excitement, thought-provoking political and<BR>economic problems for simple military exercises and head-smashing, a<BR>broad view for a narrow one. And I hate it with a passion. The Imperium<BR>is dead-- long live the Dawn League and the Star Vikings? No thank you.<BR>I quit. I'm leaving. I can not deal with this now, call me a coward, a<BR>stick-in-the-mud, an elitist, an old fogey, whatever you want. <BR><BR>That having been said, what am I going to do now?<BR><BR>To be honest, I just don't know. I will continue to read the<BR>TNE-Pocket material, and will see if the little spot of color we are<BR>preparing to add to The Big Grey Map inspires me enough to start<BR>working again on my part.&nbsp; I will remain on the TML, and I will almost<BR>certainly continue to playtest the TNE rules I have until I can obtain<BR>the published versions. When those rules are in hand, I will begin to<BR>type up the text of a sourcebook for TNE on the unbroken Third<BR>Imperium, an idea that may or may not ever see approval by GDW and<BR>which I will not discuss here until its future is known for certain,<BR>one way or the other. I will finish running my MegaTraveller campaign<BR>to its end, and see if the last set of people I care about in the<BR>Traveller Universe, Grant and Company, make it to safety in Deneb<BR>before the end (it's ironic that in Hector, the CymBiotic who ran<BR>Grant's computer for him, I anticipated the Virus by over three<BR>years). The PBEM I run with Mark Cook will continue-- the characters<BR>have left the known Universe anyway, and we have time to consider what<BR>sort of homecoming they will eventually endure.<BR><BR>And after that, when TNE is finally here? Who knows?<BR><BR>Perhaps I will take refuge in the old Imperium and dust off my ratty<BR>old Classic Traveller books, and try to pretend none of this ever<BR>happened. But I doubt it; that smacks of cowardice. Perhaps I, like<BR>many others of my stripe, will take comfort from the highly unlikely<BR>but metasatisfying pre-rebellion status of the Regency of Deneb, and<BR>actually grow intrigued with the new mix of races and ideas there--<BR>and perhaps I will learn to ignore the iron wall surrounding my new<BR>little universe, beyond which there is nothing but grey paint. Right.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3129<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (rly-yg04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.4]) by air-yg04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:07:27 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com ([204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg04.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:06:44 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA89521;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:50:18 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:48:49 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA89230<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:48:49 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:48:49 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010061748.NAA89230@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3129<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD>10/6/00 4:13:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 6 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3130<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Dumb question Part II<BR>Re: Jump speed<BR>And canon is born ( Was RE: Jump speed)<BR>Re: Imperial Lines<BR>Re: Imperial Lines<BR>RE: Emergency<BR>Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>Re: Relativity<BR>Re: Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>Re: Pedantry and czechsums<BR>Taxes<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>RE: Ship combat<BR>RE: Planetary Navies<BR>RE: Planetary Navies<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR>Traveller? (Was Best Smelling)<BR>Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>Re: Emergency<BR>Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR>RE: Ship combat<BR>RE: Taxes<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 10:55:26 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Dumb question Part II<BR><BR>Does anyone know how to access the site wherein you can choose digest<BR>mode for the TML?<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:14:18 -0700 <BR>From: Cliff Linehan &lt;clinehan@sfamipec.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:31:07 EDT From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>&gt;My thought is that an object has to be bigger than you in order to have a <BR>&gt;100D effect on you while in jump space. Thus, a 200 ton asteroid wandering <BR>&gt;out in space might precipitate you out of jump space if you came within<BR>100D <BR>&gt;of it during jump from Sol to Alpha Centauri. But random hydrogen atoms<BR>would <BR>&gt;have no effect. Theoretically, this makes bigger ships safer in jump.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Marc<BR><BR>It sounds like the Star Wars system dealing with the hyper drive where<BR>"Anything larger than a bolder can destroy a ship with its hyperspace<BR>shadow"<BR><BR>It would figure that a 200 ton asteroid will stop a 100 ton scout but not a<BR>800 ton cruiser?<BR><BR><BR>Clifford Linehan<BR>http://herons-reach.homepage.com/traveller<BR>Developing Vlanchiets Qlom and the Core Route.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:24:55 -0500 <BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: And canon is born ( Was RE: Jump speed)<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:31:07 EDT<BR>&gt; From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In a message dated 10/6/00 11:02:56 AM Central Daylight Time, <BR>&gt; rgb@odetics.com <BR>&gt; writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;&nbsp; This also brings up the question of "How big does <BR>&gt; something have to<BR>&gt;&nbsp; get before you worry about being within 100d of it?"&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My thought is that an object has to be bigger than you in <BR>&gt; order to have a <BR>&gt; 100D effect on you while in jump space. Thus, a 200 ton <BR>&gt; asteroid wandering <BR>&gt; out in space might precipitate you out of jump space if you <BR>&gt; came within 100D <BR>&gt; of it during jump from Sol to Alpha Centauri. But random <BR>&gt; hydrogen atons would <BR>&gt; have no effect. Theoretically, this makes bigger ships safer in jump.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Marc<BR><BR><BR>Veteran player: "You read that? You read that?"<BR><BR>Newbie player:&nbsp; "What?"<BR><BR>Veteran player: "That email from Marc. That's CANON, son!<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I *love* the words of canon in the morning.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; It reads like...victory."<BR><BR>(Canon never dies. It just lands a round on your head when you least<BR>expect it.)<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:28:55 EDT<BR>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Imperial Lines<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/6/00 11:07:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; (Not a plug) With all this talk about eBay I decided to look around to see<BR>&gt; what stuff was up for auction. While going thru the Games section I found an<BR>&gt; interesting item. It's the first, and only, issue of something called<BR>&gt; Imperial Lines, a newsletter that GDW put out for MegaTraveller but<BR>&gt; cancelled the project. From the description, it has a map of the Foreven<BR>&gt; Sector. Has anyone heard about this newsletter? What happened to the<BR>&gt; project?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Here is the item number: 454817925<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Three issues were published, issues 4-5 were going to be a joint issue. In <BR>both cases they are available on the HIWG CD (issues 1-5, minus artwork).<BR><BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:36:06 EDT<BR>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Imperial Lines<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/6/00 11:07:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Issues 1 and then 2 of Imperial Lines were actually published. Issue 3 &amp; 4<BR>&gt; (a combined issue) was ready for publication (I have a proof copy), but<BR>&gt; never actually printed. As for what happened - Imperial Lines was geared<BR>&gt; towards MT, and the advent of a particularly foul Virus known as TNE killed<BR>&gt; it (pun intended). <BR><BR>Than again I guess it was just 4 issues (I just had one or two items for #5 I <BR>guess, also on the CD, just not mentioned as such).<BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:26:22<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Emergency<BR><BR>At 06:08 PM 10/5/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;All,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Due to a fire, some 2nd degree burns, a new job, and a stainless steal bitch<BR>&gt;of a cold or some other bug that literally dropped me for two days, I was<BR>&gt;out of touch for ahile.<BR><BR>Say WHAT!?<BR><BR>You don't get away that weasily.. what was her name, and does she have a<BR>sister.. or brother for that matter. :P<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; )+(&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored with sex."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Fry, Futurama<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:34:04<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR><BR>At 10:56 AM 10/5/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Design, functionality, great mechanics or atmosphere. These are great ways<BR>&gt;to assess an RPG. But what about smell? Come on campers, what's you most<BR>&gt;favourite smelling RPG?<BR><BR>Traveller.&nbsp; Traveller smells good, tastes good, and leaves a great shine<BR>with no waxy build up!<BR><BR>After my surgury, I was stuck in the hospital for a month, then The Regency<BR>Sourcebook came out, I was relased within days!&nbsp; GDW closed, I get pneumonia!<BR><BR>Traveller does everything!&nbsp; Airdrop copies in Hebrew and Arabic over the<BR>Middle east, and peace will break out!&nbsp; Sobo played Rifts, and now he's<BR>gone!&nbsp; Traveller toppled the Soviet Union!!!!<BR><BR>Traveller heals the sick!&nbsp; Copies should be be brioadcasted by SETI, to<BR>prove we are an advanced species!&nbsp; I rub Traveller books over my body!!<BR><BR>Traveller.&nbsp; It's even fun to say the word.<BR>TravellerTravellerTravellerTravellerTraveller.<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR><BR>TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins<BR>Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:36:55<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Relativity<BR><BR>At 01:02 PM 10/5/2000 -0700, Bruce wrote:<BR>&gt;Craig Berry wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I do.&nbsp; I lie awake at night worried about it.&nbsp; I admit this at the risk of<BR>&gt;&gt; attracting Mach-ery.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Oh, Craig...no tau ways about it, you're relatively nuts!<BR><BR>Aiee! These two trading science puns is too horrible to contemplate!&nbsp; <BR><BR>Eject! Eject! Eject!<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry&nbsp; <BR>gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>Alle preisen den Pinguinherrscher!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:39:17<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Thank You!&nbsp; from your list mom.<BR><BR>At 09:57 AM 10/5/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;"Virus is a perfectly plausible technological development."<BR>&gt;generate?? ;-)<BR><BR>Mark, Jesse.. lets move this year's live fire from Oregon to Bruce's office.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>Egotist: a person more interested in himself than in me.<BR>- -- Ambrose Bierce<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:55:48 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>Why not have the Rebellion play out much like the Civil War 500 years<BR>before.&nbsp; Most of the battles will be fought in deep space, with little<BR>disruption of the Imperial bureaucracy and almost no disruption of the<BR>civilian economy (except the increased taxes each faction imposes to<BR>fund its bid for power).<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:03 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;39DDF75E.D5397CCC@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I just purchase rulebooks. I'd modified CT to something spookily like what <BR>MT was when it came out, didn't bother with TNE at all and very recently <BR>acquired the "Mark Miller's Traveller" rulebook. The universe in which <BR>this is all set has gone its own way from the outset... <BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 12:03:42 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Pedantry and czechsums<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Leonard wrote: <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; No, he means even and odd *positions* in the number.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Ah, thank you. I had a nagging feeling I was missing something.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; -Russell "Second most pedantic poster to TML, why do you ask?" B<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And who do you think is first (hint, not me!)<BR><BR>Well, if not you, then...<BR><BR>...um...<BR><BR>...well, actually, Leonard, you were who I had in mind. It's not a BAD thing,<BR>honest! Who were you thinking of?<BR><BR>- -RB<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:10:41 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Taxes<BR><BR>What is the tax rate for the 3i? Is it covered in the long-term living <BR>expenses, or has it been addressed elsewhere? Are individual worlds the only <BR>source of taxes or do commoners also get taxed directly by the emperor?<BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 12:43:55 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Rebellion could not play out the same because the beauracracy did<BR>not continue in a unified fashion. During the Civil War, the various fleet<BR>commanders fought over the throne, but did not wage the campaign of terror<BR>against worlds as is noted in the Rebellion Sourcebook. Indeed, the high<BR>population worlds, true gems of the Rebellion, are not the goal in the Civil<BR>War. This is because during the Civil War, there is not a fractioning of the<BR>Imperium, despite the implications of the name. In fact, it seems as if the<BR>two titles could be exchanged, and the result would be more accurate.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Gerry Harris" &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 11:55 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Why not have the Rebellion play out much like the Civil War 500 years<BR>&gt; before.&nbsp; Most of the battles will be fought in deep space, with little<BR>&gt; disruption of the Imperial bureaucracy and almost no disruption of the<BR>&gt; civilian economy (except the increased taxes each faction imposes to<BR>&gt; fund its bid for power).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =====<BR>&gt; Gerry Harris<BR>&gt;<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>&gt; ther Traveller - http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>&gt; Soldier's Companion -<BR>http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>&gt;<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>&gt; "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war" - Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act<BR>3, Scene 1<BR>&gt;<BR>****************************************************************************<BR>******************<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; __________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>&gt; http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 15:51:16 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Ship combat<BR><BR>Alun Moon writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;(Mars is 66000km in diameter)<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Um, perhaps there is some confusion of decimals.&nbsp; The<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Earth is only around 13000 km in diameter.&nbsp; Did you<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; mean 6600 km (I have 6794.4 km at the equator)?<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 15:53:28 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Planetary Navies<BR><BR>Stephen Tempest writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Does the President of Susten have any say in what to do with the<BR>&gt;&gt;Planetary Navy?<BR>&gt;By my argument above, yes he does.&nbsp; He can do whatever he wants with<BR>&gt;the fleet, as long as he doesn't break High Imperial Law or his own<BR>&gt;planet's constitution.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Assuming that his (or her) planet has a constitution.<BR><BR>:)<BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 15:57:32 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Planetary Navies<BR><BR>Alan Bradley writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;My approach would be that the Susten government (including the Pres)<BR>&gt;controls the Planetary Navy, just like they control the Planetary Army. <BR>&gt;Under certain circumstances elements of both forces might be imperialised,<BR>&gt;but this would usually involve a certain amount of negotiation.&nbsp; (I<BR>&gt;generally have the Imperium treating its member worlds with a great degree<BR>&gt;of tact, as tact is usually cheaper than warfare.)<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The other thing that the Imperium has to keep in mind is that the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; morale and loyalty of "Imperialized" forces may be better when the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; planetary government is kept happy.&nbsp; Sometimes this may involve<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; certain "arrangements" that the general population is not meant to<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; know about... (cue PC's).<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:07:45 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Although I agree that such a resolution could have been possible,<BR>(Especially if Norris had recognized Strephon as the real emperor) by the<BR>time MT was done with the Imperium, it was dead. TNE simply finished it off.<BR>Margaret in Survival Margin (The quote is an older one, I think, but I<BR>cannot remember where it first came from) notes that the 3I is viable only<BR>in economic terms. MT effectively limited interstellar trade to within the<BR>safe sphere of each faction. Even then, with the decimation of organized<BR>fleet offensives during the Hard Times, each faction had set into a mode of<BR>attrition/penetration commerce raids.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Furthermore, it is not as if the Vargr, Aslan, and Solomani threats are<BR>going to just disappear. By 1119, Deneb was completely severed, and without<BR>the much hated Virus, there is no way to remove the Sword Worlders/Zhodani<BR>military threat. Without resolving those issues, the Domain cannot possibly<BR>dedicate enough forces to stop the Vargr incursions from coming in further.<BR>Now, it is true that the Zhodani have no (serious) actual intentions towards<BR>Deneb, but no one in the domain can possibly know that.&nbsp; Meanwhile, the<BR>Solomani are gobbling up subsector after subsector. Indeed, the Old Expanses<BR>completely integrates into the Solomani Confederation during the Hard Times,<BR>and their is no credible force to stop them short of the fraction sphere of<BR>Dulinor and Margaret. Daibei will not be able to present a credible<BR>opposition to the Solomani war machine for long, because of the Aslan<BR>incursions.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Essentially, by 1119, no two, possibly even no three factions have the<BR>power to restore the Imperium by force and beat back the invaders. Now, if<BR>the other factions voluntarily reintergrated after two or three of the<BR>others had allied, then there is a possibility for Imperial ressurection.<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Rob Myers" &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 9:07 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Sounds good.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; - Rob.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dan Lane wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I neglected to add..."with the whole thing ending in an alliance of some<BR>&gt; &gt; sort that makes a definitive victory possible by two or more of the<BR>factions<BR>&gt; &gt; and restores the 3I".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/&nbsp;&nbsp; H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>&gt; MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.<BR>&gt; "What exactly do otters ott? Why won't they tell us?"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:11:04 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Traveller? (Was Best Smelling)<BR><BR>Speaking of a fun name, does anyone know why it was named Traveller, or why<BR>it was purpously (?) misspelled?<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 11:34 AM<BR>Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR><BR><BR>&gt; At 10:56 AM 10/5/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Design, functionality, great mechanics or atmosphere. These are great<BR>ways<BR>&gt; &gt;to assess an RPG. But what about smell? Come on campers, what's you most<BR>&gt; &gt;favourite smelling RPG?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Traveller.&nbsp; Traveller smells good, tastes good, and leaves a great shine<BR>&gt; with no waxy build up!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; After my surgury, I was stuck in the hospital for a month, then The<BR>Regency<BR>&gt; Sourcebook came out, I was relased within days!&nbsp; GDW closed, I get<BR>pneumonia!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Traveller does everything!&nbsp; Airdrop copies in Hebrew and Arabic over the<BR>&gt; Middle east, and peace will break out!&nbsp; Sobo played Rifts, and now he's<BR>&gt; gone!&nbsp; Traveller toppled the Soviet Union!!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Traveller heals the sick!&nbsp; Copies should be be brioadcasted by SETI, to<BR>&gt; prove we are an advanced species!&nbsp; I rub Traveller books over my body!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Traveller.&nbsp; It's even fun to say the word.<BR>&gt; TravellerTravellerTravellerTravellerTraveller.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; TML Great Old One, The Keeper of Penguins<BR>&gt; Plague of the Traveller Riders of the Apocalypse<BR>&gt; Chant "Gridlore" thrice to summon.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 15:27:31 -0500 (CDT)<BR>From: Gregory Carl Kettler &lt;gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR><BR>On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Traveller does everything!&nbsp; Airdrop copies in Hebrew and Arabic over the<BR>&gt; Middle east, and peace will break out!<BR><BR>More likely everyone will go to war to settle such important issues as "is<BR>piracy viable?"<BR><BR>&gt; Traveller heals the sick!&nbsp; Copies should be be brioadcasted by SETI, to<BR>&gt; prove we are an advanced species!&nbsp; I rub Traveller books over my body!!<BR><BR>Interesting mental image.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 13:52:37 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Emergency<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Damn Glenn, I had been going along just fine for months now but chalk<BR>yourself up a keyboard. I &gt;didn't splort but I had my coffee cup in hand and<BR>laughed so hard I spilled it onto the whole<BR>&gt;desk top w/keyboard!<BR><BR>Oh! I think that's two! Someday I'll be an ace.<BR><BR>&gt;I even made it past the great line Doug Berry used the other day but you<BR>got me today....I think &gt;it hit kinda close to home, reminded me of the<BR>first time I re-enlisted in the Army and the<BR>&gt;bastards sent me to Viet Nam. After the 3rd month I wound up in the<BR>hospital with some minor<BR>&gt;leaks and jungle rot of the toes. BTW, the toes took longer to heal....<BR><BR>Your post inspired me to pour some nuoc mam on my bowl of beef and rice --<BR>aroy aroy, as they say in Thailand.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 17:17:24 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Traveller heals the sick!&nbsp; Copies should be be brioadcasted by SETI, to<BR>&gt; &gt; prove we are an advanced species!&nbsp; I rub Traveller books over my body!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Interesting mental image.<BR><BR>Mental is right. Any fool knows that you should rub your body all over a<BR>pile of books, not vice versa. I doubt you could hold more than thirty or<BR>forty books at a time while rubbing. And the smell when you have a few<BR>hundred piled up and start rolling around? Grandfather on a gravbike!<BR>nothing can push you over the edge further. Well, nothing short of the taste<BR>of&nbsp; a Martian Metals grav-tank :-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 14:32:42 -0700<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR><BR>What do I play?<BR><BR>I run GT game set in the CT era (just about to hit the FFW...)<BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 18:37:40 -0400<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Ship combat<BR><BR>RCID - Alun Moon writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Traveller space combat will be much like current day<BR>&gt;&gt; Anti-Submarine-Warfare (ASW).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Actually, if you use realistic sensor ranges, it's more like two guys with<BR>&gt;guns on a perfectly flat field with no cover anywhere.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If you drop grav focusing, it instead resembles two people with automatic<BR>&gt;weapons shooting at one another from ten feet ;)<BR><BR>Like many things in any game world it all depends on what your suppositions<BR>for imaginary technology are. We've gone through this before, more than<BR>once.&nbsp; What is a realistic sensor range depends upon what suppositions you<BR>make about stealth technology and emission control.<BR><BR>If I can detect neutrinos, for example, then every nuclear reaction within a<BR>relatively infinite distance is a spotlight. If I can suppress my neutrino<BR>transmission or at least mask it in some way, then your neutrino detector<BR>becomes less effective.<BR><BR>Wait, you can't suppress neutrino transmission, they penetrate everything.<BR>Very true, which is why they're almost impossible to detect. Show me the<BR>tech you're using to detect them, (no vast vats of dry cleaning fluid on<BR>your battleship please,) and I'll show you my anti-neutrino suppression<BR>grid.<BR><BR>That's why we had a long discussion about grav tech detection a few months<BR>ago. If the artificial gravity fields of contragrav or grav plate technology<BR>can be detected over long ranges then anyone using such tech cannot be<BR>stealthy. If reactionless thrusters are related to grav or contragrav tech<BR>then they can't be stealthy either. This might go a long way to explaining<BR>why submarines in the 3I still use tanks of liquid to control buoyancy and<BR>why PC's always seem to have to use GTL-8 ATV's rather than air/rafts in<BR>their adventures.<BR><BR>Personally I like the use of grav tech to be pervasive IMTU and so I allow<BR>grav shielding of devices as well as emission shielding of power plants.<BR>This allows civilian gear (and ships) to be relatively easy to find, but<BR>military hardware hard or very hard to find, based on the GTL. So Mercs with<BR>GTL-10 stuff might give a planetary force with GTL-9 equipment a very hard<BR>time, but be in big trouble if they run into Imperial Marines with GTL-12<BR>stuff.<BR><BR>With these suppositions space combat can be very like ASW. Both sides<BR>stealthy and emission masked, running on battery banks and using PESA to try<BR>and find the enemy for the first shot from short range. Battles between two<BR>foes tend to be very long as both sides try to find the other first. When<BR>one side pins down the position of the other, if distances are short, the<BR>shooting part takes very little time.<BR><BR>On the other hand in a full-scale battle, once the ships fires their weapons<BR>once Rad Scanners and Ladar make following energy weapons and missiles back<BR>to their source very easy, Then all hell brakes loose until one side breaks<BR>off or all the enemy ships are disabled.<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 18:52:35 -0400<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Taxes<BR><BR>Only worlds are taxed by the Imperium. Local taxes are a matter for the<BR>individual worlds. Duties and fees are also allowed, so Starports can recoup<BR>their operating costs, or part of them, from charging duties on goods and<BR>fees for services.<BR><BR>The local Agro grower may be paying oppressive taxes to someone, but it<BR>won't be to the Imperium.<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of James Jensen<BR>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 3:11 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Taxes<BR><BR>What is the tax rate for the 3i? Is it covered in the long-term living<BR>expenses, or has it been addressed elsewhere? Are individual worlds the only<BR>source of taxes or do commoners also get taxed directly by the emperor?<BR><BR>Thanks.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3130<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Saturday, October 7 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3131<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Tigress Class<BR>RE: Emergency<BR>Re: Taxes<BR>Re: Traveller? (Was Best Smelling)<BR>Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>RE: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>Minion Mark 1a:&nbsp; Electronic Counter Measures, Reconnaisance, Forward Observer<BR>Minion Mark 2a:&nbsp; Counter-Insurgency Armored Fighting Vehicle<BR>Minion Mark 3a:&nbsp; Counter-Insurgency Armored Fighting Vehicle<BR>Minion Mark 4b:&nbsp; Armored Personnel Carrier<BR>Minion Mark 5:&nbsp; Point Defense<BR>Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR>RE: Tigress Class<BR>TNE meson gun info needed<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:25:48 -0400<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR><BR>I almost hate to point it out as it' "forbidden cannon" but SOM states that<BR>attitude control is achieved through the use of an inertial gyroscope made<BR>of superdense and revolving at speeds of 1 million RPM. Focus gravity<BR>modules are used to allow the ship to '"push" on the gyro with physical<BR>contact. Attitude thrusters are used as a backup system. SOM says that<BR>attitude thrusters use gas-jets, not grav plates. Grav plates (Also called<BR>reactionless thruster plates) can reverse thrust to 10% of their forward<BR>thrust, and thrust sideways (and up and down) at 25% of their aft thrust.<BR><BR>Any ship having less than 4G thrusters cannot land on a world with 1G<BR>gravity by hovering on thrusters alone, at least not if they land with their<BR>deck perpendicular to their thruster plates. They must use Contragrav, or a<BR>runway.<BR><BR>The nifty blue glow of reactionless thrusters (ala Millennium Falcon) is a<BR>side effect and is not related to the direction of thrust.<BR><BR>I like these rules and use them even with G:T.<BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Anthony Jackson<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 6:27 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR><BR>Katharine Whitchurch writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR>&gt; &gt; Not to mention that various rulesets notwithstanding, it isn't actually<BR>&gt; &gt; necessary to give a vehicle equal armor on all faces.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; IMO this only works if you assume vectored thrusters. If you have to spin<BR>&gt; the ship to do evasion, then this becomes non-optimal pretty fast.<BR><BR>No, you just need to put your primary evasion thrusters somewhere other than<BR>on the back of your ship.&nbsp; The obvious design is a needle shape with<BR>thrusters<BR>pointing out one side.&nbsp; Structurally, this is no more difficult than putting<BR>thrusters at the end, as long as they are reasonably well balanced.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 19:52:07 -0400<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Emergency<BR><BR>On Thu, 5 Oct 2000 21:47:29 -0400 (EDT), Jesse DeGraff<BR>&lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Due to a fire, some 2nd degree burns, a new job, and a stainless steal bitch<BR>&gt;of a cold or some other bug that literally dropped me for two days, I was<BR>&gt;out of touch for ahile.&nbsp; I'm back, and desperately trying to play catch up<BR>&gt;on the graphics.&nbsp; I've already e-mailed Loren &amp; Phil seperately with the<BR>&gt;full details.&nbsp; Didn't want anyone really freaking out or something.<BR><BR>Good G-d, man, I hope you're not driving yourself beyond what your<BR>obviously-abused body can take!&nbsp; Best wishes on your recuperation!<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 16:57:04 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Taxes<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 14:10:41 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What is the tax rate for the 3i? Is it covered in the long-term living<BR>&gt; expenses, or has it been addressed elsewhere? Are individual worlds the<BR>&gt; only source of taxes or do commoners also get taxed directly by the<BR>&gt; emperor? <BR><BR>All IMTU, YMMV, FNORD:<BR><BR>Imperial citizens are not taxed directly by the Imperium.&nbsp; Rather, each<BR>world is assessed a required contribution to the subsector government,<BR>based (to a first approximation) on GNP.&nbsp; This assessment may be varied<BR>somewhat for political or policy reasons, but in general it's a straight<BR>proportion of GNP, to avoid creating strife between neighboring worlds<BR>with different tax burdens.&nbsp; GNP data collection and assessment is a<BR>function of the IISS in cooperation with the MoC.<BR><BR>Each world is free to collect its contribution as it sees fit, within<BR>Imperial law.&nbsp; Most budget it as part of planetary government operating<BR>expenses, and thus the money ultimately comes from wherever each<BR>government gets money -- individual income taxes, corporate income taxes<BR>and fees, sales taxes, owned industries, or whatever.&nbsp; Occasionally,<BR>"payment" of resources or service is accepted, but only in very unusual<BR>circumstances, as it's much harder to achieve parity between worlds doing<BR>this.<BR><BR>Balkanized worlds are a problem in this scheme, and indeed squabbles over<BR>apportionment of tax burden is a common trigger for worsening relations<BR>and even war between nations on such worlds.<BR><BR>Funds collected at the subsector level are used within the subsector for<BR>various obvious purposes -- maintenance of Imperial installations and<BR>equipment, purchase of new such, personnel salaries, and special purposes<BR>(like e.g. subsidizing merchant traffic to a world targeted for<BR>development).&nbsp; A portion (again, allocated by subsector-wide GNP) is<BR>channeled to the sector government, where the same spend-some-forward-<BR>some scheme occurs, and again at the domain level, with the Imperium per<BR>se (as distinct from its component domains) at the top of the pyramid.<BR><BR>In addition to all this, the Imperium itself collects fees and income<BR>taxes from Imperially-chartered megacorporations, and also has a<BR>significant equity in many of them.&nbsp; These additional income streams give<BR>the Imperial center a bit more fiscal flexibility than might otherwise be<BR>the case.<BR><BR>The tax rate (and method of collection) varies widely from world to world.<BR>However, a general trend among most higher-tech worlds is to levy<BR>a planetary sales tax rather than collect income tax.&nbsp; The mobility of<BR>populations at higher tech levels can make collecting income tax<BR>difficult, and doing so fairly nearly impossible.<BR><BR>I postulate that most successful, trade-friendly worlds will have a sales<BR>tax around 6%.&nbsp; Note that this applies only to goods bought locally for<BR>local use, and typically excludes food and other staples.&nbsp; Equipment<BR>purchased for export or delivered for import is subject to other fees, as<BR>discussed in GURPS Traveller: Far Trader.<BR><BR>That's my take on it, anyway.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 09:27:21 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller? (Was Best Smelling)<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Jeffrey Yin" <BR>&gt; Speaking of a fun name, does anyone know why it was named Traveller, or<BR>&gt; why it was purpously (?) misspelled?<BR><BR>Sorry?&nbsp; I've always spelt traveller with two "l"s!&nbsp; Traveler with one "l"<BR>is a US usage.<BR><BR>That still doesn't explain why Traveller is spelt with two "l"s.&nbsp; Are or<BR>were both spellings used in the 70s?<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Traveller.&nbsp; It's even fun to say the word.<BR>&gt; &gt; TravellerTravellerTravellerTravellerTraveller.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:03:41 -0700<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR><BR>On Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:34:04, "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>&lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Traveller heals the sick!&nbsp; Copies should be be brioadcasted by SETI, to<BR>&gt;prove we are an advanced species!&nbsp; I rub Traveller books over my body!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Traveller.&nbsp; It's even fun to say the word.<BR>&gt;TravellerTravellerTravellerTravellerTraveller.<BR><BR>... Doug, how much cold medication are you taking right now?<BR><BR>(Coming off one myself at the moment, this seems the most likely explanation.)<BR><BR><BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 20:47:38 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR><BR>As for the term "traveller," it's one of many elements of the original game's 'color' drawn from E.C. Tubb's Dumarest of Terra books, referring to a class of people who, for whatever reason, constantly move from planet to planet.&nbsp; "Gypsy," except for its specific (derogatory?) cultural connotation, would probably work just as well.&nbsp; It might have other antecedents, too -- there was a movie a couple of years back called "Traveller"* (with both Ls, I think) about (IIRC) a family of roving con-men (which lends more credence to the "gypsy" equivalence, as well).<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; As for the second L, no idea.&nbsp; Perhaps Marc et al. had British editions of the Tubb books and figured that was how it should be spelled (my editions are American, and have only one L).&nbsp; Maybe it was a typo that no one caught until it was too late.&nbsp; If we discuss it enough, I'd bet Marc or Loren will eventually pipe in with the real reason, so let's keep speculating away!<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>*How many people actually saw this movie, just because of the title?&nbsp; You know you're out there!&nbsp; I confess I thought about it, but never did.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 18:27:26<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR><BR>At 05:03 PM 10/6/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;On Fri, 06 Oct 2000 11:34:04, "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>&gt;&lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Traveller.&nbsp; It's even fun to say the word.<BR>&gt;&gt;TravellerTravellerTravellerTravellerTraveller.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;... Doug, how much cold medication are you taking right now?<BR><BR>Actually, I'm on an endorphine rush from going back to work after seven<BR>months of disability.&nbsp; I am now a dispatcher, which means I get to torture<BR>drivers.. hehehehe...<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 22:02:47 EDT<BR>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/6/00 8:03:26 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; <BR>As for the term "traveller," it's one of many elements of the original <BR>game's 'color'&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>When SPI first heard of the title [Traveller], they thought is was an <BR>American Civil War game. For trivia buffs, why was that?<BR><BR>Marc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 22:05:39 EDT<BR>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/6/00 8:03:26 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; As for the second L, no idea.&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Why?<BR><BR>Distinctive spelling makes the word/title easier to trademark and defend. No <BR>one in the US would spell the name with two L's, thus if they did, it would <BR>be an infringement.<BR><BR>Every other attempt at an SF title seemed to use Star ___ or Space ___ in the <BR>title so people would know it was science fiction. Traveller was aimed at <BR>people who would know from other clues that it was SF. We never considered <BR>calling it Star Traveller or Space Traveller.<BR><BR>Marc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 21:09:31 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR><BR>Continuing the issue of the two Ls in "Traveller":<BR><BR>From what I can tell, it's part of the game's uniqueness and ambience. The <BR>Imperium, if you'll notice, incorporates other, shall we say, <BR>"British-isms". Take the Navy for example. Rank O2 (from T4 or High Guard) <BR>is sublieutenant. But the American navy O2 is Lieutenant Junior Grade, which <BR>is used by the Solomani.<BR><BR>I hope this helps.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:17:27 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR><BR>Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>Mongo Defense Force, Mongo/Jewell&nbsp; TL 10; Date of this document:&nbsp; 001-1111<BR><BR>Designed by Nofgin Defense Design Group, a wholly-owned subsidiary of<BR>Instellarms LIC, on Efate/Regina for the Mongo National Guard (MNG) of<BR>Mongo/Jewell.&nbsp; These vehicles entered service with MNG in 1103.&nbsp; After the<BR>Fifth Frontier War, they continue to serve as front-line equipment of the<BR>Mongo Defense Force (MDF).<BR><BR>Per Imperial conventions, these vehicles are rated for operations on a world<BR>with 1 G gravity.&nbsp; Operational characteristics will vary on other worlds.<BR><BR>The Minion family of AFVs contains five marks, each of which serves a<BR>different function in the combined arms armored unit.&nbsp; The primary function<BR>of the Minion is the execution of counter-insurgency operations.&nbsp; Its<BR>secondary function is to support MDF defensive operations against outworld<BR>aggressors.&nbsp; All weapons systems are off the shelf to facilitate purchase<BR>of ammunition and replacement of worn out or damaged weapons.&nbsp; The following<BR>marks are currently in service with MDF.<BR><BR>Mark 1a:&nbsp; ECM, reconnaissance (auto RAM GL)<BR>Mark 2a:&nbsp; anti-insurgent (VRF Gauss gun, auto RAM GL, laser rifle)<BR>Mark 3a:&nbsp; anti-insurgent (laser rifles, HMG, auto RAM GL)<BR>Mark 4b:&nbsp; troop carrier (laser rifles, HMG, auto RAM GL)<BR>Mark 5:&nbsp; point defense (VRF Gauss gun, auto RAM GL, 5.5 mm gatling gun)<BR><BR>Common specifications:<BR>Dimensions:&nbsp; 6m long x 3m wide x 2.1 m high; front moderate slope; other<BR>faces vertical, resulting in 34.02 m3 available space.<BR>Speed:&nbsp; Max 600kph/500cm Cruise 450kph/375cm NOE 140kph/117cm&nbsp; NOE speed is<BR>limited by TL 10 avionics.<BR>Will not float.<BR>Environmental control:&nbsp; overpressure.<BR>Laser sensors.&nbsp; (Roll 6+ to detect.)<BR>Target size DMs:&nbsp; All marks: +2 low.&nbsp; Marks 1, 2, 3, 4:&nbsp; No high hits.&nbsp; Mark<BR>5:&nbsp; DM 0 high.<BR>Stabilized weapons:&nbsp; Movement has no effect on fire.&nbsp; Unstabilized weapons:<BR>Per table.<BR><BR>The following emails will give information for each mark.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:17:29 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Minion Mark 1a:&nbsp; Electronic Counter Measures, Reconnaisance, Forward Observer<BR><BR>Minion Mark 1a:&nbsp; Electronic Counter Measures, Reconnaisance, Forward<BR>Observer<BR>Weapons:<BR>chassis front laser rifle, 1 power pack, no stabilization (primarily for<BR>target designation)<BR>chassis pintel auto RAM GL, no stabilization 18 magazines<BR>Crew:&nbsp; 1 standing (commander/GL gunner), 3 seated (driver, laser gunner,<BR>radio/electronics)<BR>Fuel hours:&nbsp; 39<BR>Smoke 24; prismatic aerosol 60<BR>Electronics:&nbsp; Radio 5000 power; Radio 20 power; Radio direction finder;<BR>Radio jammer 5000 power; Laser communicator 1000 power; Terrain following<BR>ladar 5 power; Target acquisition ladar 5000 power; Radar direction finder;<BR>Radar jammer 5000 power; Image enhancement; Thermal image; Thermal image<BR>goggles; Extensive ECM; Map box; Battle computer<BR>Passengers 0; Cargo 0<BR>Armor:&nbsp; Front 47, Sides 44, Rear 44, Deck 42, Belly 44<BR>Weight 138.6489tons; Thrust 208tons; Maneuver Gs 0.500<BR>Price:&nbsp; Cr3,208,724.40<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:17:31 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Minion Mark 2a:&nbsp; Counter-Insurgency Armored Fighting Vehicle<BR><BR>Minion Mark 2a:&nbsp; Counter-Insurgency Armored Fighting Vehicle<BR>Weapons:<BR>chassis front auto RAM GL, 22 magazines, stabilized<BR>chassis front VRF Gauss gun, 3 hoppers, stabilized<BR>Crew:&nbsp; 3 seated (commander, driver, gunner)<BR>Fuel hours:&nbsp; 14<BR>Smoke 46; prismatic aerosol 72<BR>Electronics:&nbsp; Radio 5000 power; Radio 20 power; Radio direction finder;<BR>Radio jammer 400 power; Laser communicator 1000 power; Terrain following<BR>ladar 5 power; Target acquisition ladar 500 power; Radar jammer 100 power;<BR>Image enhancement; Thermal image; Thermal image goggles (Marks 3 and 4<BR>only); Extensive ECM; Map box; Battle computer<BR>Passengers 0; Cargo 1m3 (rated for 1ton)<BR>Armor:&nbsp; Front 45, Sides 44, Rear 44, Deck 42, Belly 44<BR>Weight 136.3883tons; Thrust 205tons; Maneuver Gs 0.503<BR>Price:&nbsp; Cr3,864,888.23<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:17:33 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Minion Mark 3a:&nbsp; Counter-Insurgency Armored Fighting Vehicle<BR><BR>Minion Mark 3a:&nbsp; Counter-Insurgency Armored Fighting Vehicle<BR>Weapons:<BR>Chassis front HMG, 8 belts, stabilized<BR>Chassis front:&nbsp; auto RAM GL 17 magazines, stabilized<BR>Chassis pintel:&nbsp; laser rifle, 1 power pack, not stabilized (primarily for<BR>target designation)<BR>Crew:&nbsp; 1 standing (commander/laser gunner); 3 seated (driver, gunner)<BR>Fuel hours:&nbsp; 12<BR>Smoke 22; prismatic aerosol 48<BR>Electronics:&nbsp; Radio 5000 power; Radio 20 power; Radio direction finder;<BR>Radio jammer 400 power; Laser communicator 1000 power; Terrain following<BR>ladar 5 power; Target acquisition ladar 500 power; Radar jammer 100 power;<BR>Image enhancement; Thermal image; Thermal image goggles (Marks 3 and 4<BR>only); Extensive ECM; Map box; Battle computer<BR>Passengers 0; Cargo 1m3 (rated for 1ton)<BR>Armor:&nbsp; Front 50, Sides 44, Rear 44, Deck 43, Belly 44<BR>Weight 144.3442tons; Thrust 217tons; Maneuver Gs 0.503<BR>Price:&nbsp; Cr2,054,736.36<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:17:35 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Minion Mark 4b:&nbsp; Armored Personnel Carrier<BR><BR>Minion Mark 4b:&nbsp; Armored Personnel Carrier<BR>Weapons:<BR>Chassis pintel:&nbsp; auto RAM GL 27 magazines, not stabilized<BR>Crew:&nbsp; 1 standing (commander/GL gunner); 1 seated (driver)<BR>Fuel hours:&nbsp; 20<BR>Smoke 23; prismatic aerosol 47<BR>Electronics:&nbsp; Radio 5000 power; Radio 20 power; Radio direction finder;<BR>Radio jammer 400 power; Laser communicator 1000 power; Terrain following<BR>ladar 5 power; Target acquisition ladar 500 power; Radar jammer 100 power;<BR>Image enhancement; Thermal image; Thermal image goggles (Marks 3 and 4<BR>only); Extensive ECM; Map box; Battle computer<BR>Passengers 9; Cargo 0<BR>Armor:&nbsp; Front 35, Sides 34, Rear 30, Deck 31, Belly 31<BR>Weight 51.4176tons; Thrust 77.2tons; Maneuver Gs 0.501<BR>Price:&nbsp; Cr2,054,736.36<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:17:37 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Minion Mark 5:&nbsp; Point Defense<BR><BR>Mark 5:&nbsp; Point Defense<BR>Weapons:<BR>chassis front auto RAM GL, 16 magazines, stabilized<BR>chassis front VRF Gauss gun, 1 hopper, stabilized<BR>remote top turret 5.5mm gatling gun, 15 hoppers, stabilized (point defense<BR>fire control)<BR>Crew:&nbsp; 4 seated (Commander, Driver, Chassis Front Gunner, Remote Turret<BR>Gunner)<BR>Fuel hours:&nbsp; 13.5<BR>Smoke 26; prismatic aerosol 32<BR>Electronics:&nbsp; Radio 5000 power; Radio 20 power; Radio direction finder;<BR>Radio jammer 400 power; Laser communicator 1000 power; Terrain following<BR>ladar 5 power; Target acquisition ladar 500 power; Radar jammer 100 power;<BR>Image enhancement; Thermal image; Thermal image goggles (Marks 3 and 4<BR>only); Extensive ECM; Map box; Battle computer<BR>Passengers 0; Cargo 0<BR>Armor:&nbsp; Chassis front 44, Sides 44, Rear 43, Deck 41, Belly 41; Turret front<BR>39, sides 34, rear 34<BR>Weight 133.1556tons; Thrust 200tons; Maneuver Gs 0.502<BR>Price:&nbsp; Cr4,157,965.86<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 19:25:03<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR><BR>At 10:02 PM 10/6/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;When SPI first heard of the title [Traveller], they thought is was an <BR>&gt;American Civil War game. For trivia buffs, why was that?<BR><BR>Robert E. Lee's horse, who probably could have done a better job running<BR>the war.<BR><BR>- -or- <BR><BR>It could have been because in those days SPI had war games on the brain.<BR><BR>For you young'uns, it was the era of the *big* wargame, monstrosities<BR>covering all of World War III on a battalion level; hundreds of charts,<BR>rules that read like law books, subcase after subcase... <BR><BR>*sniff*&nbsp; It was a grand time...<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 22:27:34 -0400<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR><BR>&gt;When SPI first heard of the title [Traveller], they thought is was an <BR>American Civil War game. For trivia buffs, why was that?<BR><BR>Marc&lt;<BR><BR>Robert E. Lee's horse?<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 21:36:46 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR><BR>CardSharks@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; When SPI first heard of the title [Traveller], they thought is was an<BR>&gt; American Civil War game. For trivia buffs, why was that?<BR><BR>IIRC, Marse Bob's horse was named Traveller (as opposed to the mundane<BR>spelling "Traveler").<BR><BR>Of course, only serious grognards would draw the same conclusion as the<BR>SPI folks (serious grognards, one and all).&nbsp; I, on the other hand, am a<BR>_frivolous_ grognard.... ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 22:30:02 -0400<BR>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR><BR>&gt;Why?<BR><BR>Distinctive spelling makes the word/title easier to trademark and defend. No<BR>one in the US would spell the name with two L's, thus if they did, it would<BR>be an infringement.&lt;<BR><BR>Which for the smirkers is why Gary Gygax's new game is called Lejendary<BR>Adventures.<BR><BR>Sam<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 19:37:51 -0700<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR><BR>on 10/6/00 7:02 PM, CardSharks@aol.com at CardSharks@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In a message dated 10/6/00 8:03:26 PM Central Daylight Time,<BR>&gt; trentfs@ix.netcom.com writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; <BR>&gt; As for the term "traveller," it's one of many elements of the original<BR>&gt; game's 'color'&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; When SPI first heard of the title [Traveller], they thought is was an<BR>&gt; American Civil War game. For trivia buffs, why was that?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Marc<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Lee's horse, natch.<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 16:00:34 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR><BR>Trevor, Peter wrote :<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; First off, I'm thinking of&nbsp; a&nbsp; fighter&nbsp; having&nbsp; to&nbsp; dock&nbsp; with&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; roll*ing* ship&nbsp; (I&nbsp; did&nbsp; specify&nbsp; "mid-fight").&nbsp; Second,&nbsp; if&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; docking bay is on the axis of rotation (as in "Elite")&nbsp; then&nbsp; yes<BR>&gt; this is easy.&nbsp; But looking at most of the pictures of large ships<BR>&gt; we have the docking bay is off-center ... so not&nbsp; only&nbsp; does&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; docking fighter have to match rotation&nbsp; rates&nbsp; but&nbsp; also&nbsp; has&nbsp; to<BR>&gt; follow a moving (in a circle)&nbsp; docking&nbsp; bay&nbsp; (requiring&nbsp; constant<BR>&gt; course corrections) ... and in the case of the Tigress come in at<BR>&gt; an angle too!&nbsp; Quite a tricky and&nbsp; hazardous&nbsp; maneouver&nbsp; ...&nbsp; and<BR>&gt; unwise if the fighter has sustained *any* kind of combat damage.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR>&gt; (Besides, I always used to crash into the staion in Elite!)<BR><BR>A fighter pilot you ain't !<BR><BR>Never had any trouble with Elite myself, I used to boost in at max and go to<BR>full reverse thrust a short distance out, come to almost dead stop, match<BR>roll, and blip the throttle to get inside.<BR><BR>I also used to like launching, pitching 180 degrees immediately after<BR>launch, and firing at the station, then you just kept killing police craft<BR>as they came out, much more fun than most pirates.<BR><BR>BTW, modern navy pilots have to "dock" with rolling ships now.<BR>Granted, the roll is usually less than 10 degrees, and the ship has to try<BR>and stay laterally stable, but aerodynamic fighters are less maneuverable<BR>than 6G Traveller fighters with contra-grav.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:02:21 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR><BR>No argument.&nbsp; I consider any multifaction reintegration to be a variation on<BR>a common theme.&nbsp; Doesn't matter who it is.&nbsp; DGP apparently intended Margaret<BR>and Dulinor to get it on.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 4:07 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Although I agree that such a resolution could have been possible,<BR>&gt; (Especially if Norris had recognized Strephon as the real emperor) by the<BR>&gt; time MT was done with the Imperium, it was dead. TNE simply finished it<BR>off.<BR>&gt; Margaret in Survival Margin (The quote is an older one, I think, but I<BR>&gt; cannot remember where it first came from) notes that the 3I is viable only<BR>&gt; in economic terms. MT effectively limited interstellar trade to within the<BR>&gt; safe sphere of each faction. Even then, with the decimation of organized<BR>&gt; fleet offensives during the Hard Times, each faction had set into a mode<BR>of<BR>&gt; attrition/penetration commerce raids.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Furthermore, it is not as if the Vargr, Aslan, and Solomani threats<BR>are<BR>&gt; going to just disappear. By 1119, Deneb was completely severed, and<BR>without<BR>&gt; the much hated Virus, there is no way to remove the Sword Worlders/Zhodani<BR>&gt; military threat. Without resolving those issues, the Domain cannot<BR>possibly<BR>&gt; dedicate enough forces to stop the Vargr incursions from coming in<BR>further.<BR>&gt; Now, it is true that the Zhodani have no (serious) actual intentions<BR>towards<BR>&gt; Deneb, but no one in the domain can possibly know that.&nbsp; Meanwhile, the<BR>&gt; Solomani are gobbling up subsector after subsector. Indeed, the Old<BR>Expanses<BR>&gt; completely integrates into the Solomani Confederation during the Hard<BR>Times,<BR>&gt; and their is no credible force to stop them short of the fraction sphere<BR>of<BR>&gt; Dulinor and Margaret. Daibei will not be able to present a credible<BR>&gt; opposition to the Solomani war machine for long, because of the Aslan<BR>&gt; incursions.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Essentially, by 1119, no two, possibly even no three factions have the<BR>&gt; power to restore the Imperium by force and beat back the invaders. Now, if<BR>&gt; the other factions voluntarily reintergrated after two or three of the<BR>&gt; others had allied, then there is a possibility for Imperial ressurection.<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Rob Myers" &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, October 06, 2000 9:07 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Sounds good.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; - Rob.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Dan Lane wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I neglected to add..."with the whole thing ending in an alliance of<BR>some<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; sort that makes a definitive victory possible by two or more of the<BR>&gt; factions<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; and restores the 3I".<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt; Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/&nbsp;&nbsp; H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>&gt; &gt; MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.<BR>&gt; &gt; "What exactly do otters ott? Why won't they tell us?"<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 12:02:12 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR><BR>To maneuver a Tigress is going to need more than a few manoeuvring thrusters<BR>unless time is of no importance. The FFS1 version is massing over 5 million<BR>metric tons. Funily enough the Tigress can float.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 23:19:24 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: TNE meson gun info needed<BR><BR>What are (roughly) the volumes of the:<BR><BR>TL-10 1000 Mj Meson Gun (spinal mount)<BR><BR>and<BR><BR>TL-10 2250 Mj Meson Gun (spinal mount)<BR><BR>Thanks<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3131<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (rly-yb05.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.5]) by air-yb05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Sat, 07 Oct 2000 00:31:21 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com ([204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb05.mx.aol.com (v75_b3.9) with ESMTP; Sat, 07 Oct 2000 00:30:38 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA29137;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:19:03 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:17:09 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id AAA29037<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:17:09 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 00:17:09 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010070417.AAA29037@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3131<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3132</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	10/7/00 10:33:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 7 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3132<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Relativity<BR>
Re: Ship combat<BR>
Re: Pedantry and czechsums<BR>
Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>
Re: Tigress Class<BR>
Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>
Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>
Re: Black Globes<BR>
Re: Emergency<BR>
Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
Re: Carl Gustav<BR>
Re: Graphic Help<BR>
Re: linux software (it's about time)<BR>
Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
MT/TNE FF&S fluke<BR>
Re: You know that you play too much Traveller if.....<BR>
Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
Re: Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>
Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? <BR>
Traveller/Traveler<BR>
Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>
Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? <BR>
Re: Traveller<BR>
Re: Pedantry and czechsums<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 20:58:45 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Relativity is not relevant to Traveller.  In Traveller we nimbly sidestep the<BR>
> entire issue of light speed, and FTL.  We use shortcuts to jump around the<BR>
> Universe, much like a combination of wormholes and hyperspace.<BR>
<BR>
Since Traveller ships *can* reach near c speeds with their maneuver<BR>
drives, relativity *is* relevant.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:01:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ship combat<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> RCID - Alun Moon writes:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> Traveller space combat will be much like current day<BR>
>>> Anti-Submarine-Warfare (ASW).<BR>
>><BR>
>>Actually, if you use realistic sensor ranges, it's more like two guys with<BR>
>>guns on a perfectly flat field with no cover anywhere.<BR>
>><BR>
>>If you drop grav focusing, it instead resembles two people with automatic<BR>
>>weapons shooting at one another from ten feet ;)<BR>
><BR>
> Like many things in any game world it all depends on what your suppositions<BR>
> for imaginary technology are. We've gone through this before, more than<BR>
> once.  What is a realistic sensor range depends upon what suppositions you<BR>
> make about stealth technology and emission control.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that *current* sensors could track a non-stealthed<BR>
Traveller ship at multiple AU ranges!<BR>
<BR>
And there are some pretty hard limits on stealthing the IR output of a<BR>
ship. Mostly due to those nasty laws of thermodynamics, and the<BR>
requirement that the crew stay alive and that the ship not melt.<BR>
<BR>
We went into this at *great* length a few months back.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:09:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Pedantry and czechsums<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> In mail you write:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> > Leonard wrote: <BR>
>> >> No, he means even and odd *positions* in the number.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > Ah, thank you. I had a nagging feeling I was missing something.<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> > -Russell "Second most pedantic poster to TML, why do you ask?" B<BR>
>> <BR>
>> And who do you think is first (hint, not me!)<BR>
><BR>
> Well, if not you, then...<BR>
><BR>
> ...um...<BR>
><BR>
> ...well, actually, Leonard, you were who I had in mind. It's not a BAD thing,<BR>
> honest! Who were you thinking of?<BR>
<BR>
I'm *certain* you can think of a person who insists on the letter of<BR>
the rules. If that's not pedantic... <g><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 23:17:55 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>
<BR>
"Samuel D. Weiss" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Why?<BR>
><BR>
> Distinctive spelling makes the word/title easier to trademark and defend. No<BR>
> one in the US would spell the name with two L's, thus if they did, it would<BR>
> be an infringement.<<BR>
><BR>
> Which for the smirkers is why Gary Gygax's new game is called Lejendary<BR>
> Adventures.<BR>
<BR>
Well, such minor spelling changes don't make that big a difference.<BR>
Two-L Traveller and J-for-G Legendary are what I would call<BR>
de minimus variations.  They can't hurt, but they might not help<BR>
much.  Market is always a vital factor in examining a trademark.<BR>
Consequently, "Lejendary Adventures" for a fantasy role-playing<BR>
game is actually weaker than "Traveller" is for sci-fi role-playing.<BR>
Why?  Because it is "descriptive" of the product.  "descriptive"<BR>
is a term of art in trademark law.  At worst, and I think it is a<BR>
tough case to make, "Traveller" is "suggestive", another term<BR>
of art.  IMHO, it's actually "arbitrary", which is better.  To round<BR>
out the topic, "fanciful" is best.  If a trademark is "fanciful", "arbitrary"<BR>
or merely "suggestive", it can qualify for federal registration and get<BR>
the very valuable circle-r symbol.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
Disclaimer:  I'm a lawyer but I'm not *your* lawyer.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:23:10 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I almost hate to point it out as it' "forbidden cannon" but SOM states that<BR>
> attitude control is achieved through the use of an inertial gyroscope made<BR>
> of superdense and revolving at speeds of 1 million RPM. Focus gravity<BR>
> modules are used to allow the ship to '"push" on the gyro with physical<BR>
> contact. Attitude thrusters are used as a backup system. SOM says that<BR>
> attitude thrusters use gas-jets, not grav plates.<BR>
<BR>
It's a nice idea. But unfortunately, "momentum wheels" don't work well<BR>
in the real world. In *theory*, everything will even out. In practice,<BR>
after not all that long, you've got the wheel (or sphere, in this case)<BR>
rotating at maximum safe speed in some direction. <BR>
<BR>
At that point, you *have* to use attitude jets. This is why satellites<BR>
are either configured to use tidal forces for stabilization, or to use<BR>
attitude jets *with* small momementum wheels. The wheels even out the<BR>
minor, periodic variations. But the random stuff, and the *long* period<BR>
perturbations get corrected by the jets. <BR>
<BR>
Given that medium and high earth orbit satellites can't be refueled or<BR>
serviced, the fact that they use jets anyway is pretty telling. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:58:00 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 10/6/00 8:03:26 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
> trentfs@ix.netcom.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
> << <BR>
>  As for the term "traveller," it's one of many elements of the original <BR>
> game's 'color'  >><BR>
><BR>
> When SPI first heard of the title [Traveller], they thought is was an <BR>
> American Civil War game. For trivia buffs, why was that?<BR>
<BR>
Because that was the name of Either Grant Or Lee's favorite horse.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 22:45:39 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TRAVEL(L)ER<BR>
<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
<BR>
>IIRC, Marse Bob's horse was named Traveller (as opposed to the mundane<BR>
>spelling "Traveler").<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Only one of Robert E. Lee's horses was named Traveller, the other one<BR>
was named, IIRC, Grunter or Old Grunt<BR>
<BR>
>Of course, only serious grognards would draw the same conclusion as the<BR>
>SPI folks (serious grognards, one and all).  I, on the other hand, am a<BR>
>_frivolous_ grognard.... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Or someone with an interest in history, or an Old Bummer.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 23:34:11 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Black Globes<BR>
<BR>
on 10/3/00 10:16 AM, D Allain at dr_polo@hotmail.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Thank you for the information, Shadow.  However, I still have some<BR>
> questions.  How do I figure out the capacity of the capacitators? I dont<BR>
> believe that its included in the MT referees handbook?  Im just thinking<BR>
> that if I design any starships and want to include a Black Globe, I dont<BR>
> seem to have any stats on capacitators.  Also, what does factor x mean<BR>
> (factor 1, 2 3, )? What does it affect?  How is a factor 3 better than a<BR>
> factor 1??<BR>
> I truly appreciate your input in this.<BR>
<BR>
From High Guard:<BR>
<BR>
A black globe's factor is it's rate of flicker.  A screen may be on up to<BR>
10% times its factor. It can the absorb a maximum of 10% x factor of<BR>
incoming energy.<BR>
<BR>
Each ton of capacitors can absorb 36 points.  A ship has 0.5%Mass x J number<BR>
base capacitors.<BR>
<BR>
Captured energy can be bled off when the black globe is not operating.<BR>
ship can discharge energy equal to the number of points its power plant can<BR>
produce less 10% for each factor of the black globe.<BR>
<BR>
More details can be found in High Guard.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 10:53 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Emergency<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDGEGMCAAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
Glen said "Your post inspired me to pour some nuoc mam on my bowl of beef <BR>
and rice -- aroy aroy, as they say in Thailand."<BR>
<BR>
Heh - indeed, scrumptious :-)<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, Jesse I hope you are OK.<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 03:06:28 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
<BR>
In TNE, meson guns don't apper till TL 11.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net> wrote:<BR>
> What are (roughly) the volumes of the:<BR>
> <BR>
> TL-10 1000 Mj Meson Gun (spinal mount)<BR>
> <BR>
> and<BR>
> <BR>
> TL-10 2250 Mj Meson Gun (spinal mount)<BR>
> <BR>
> Thanks<BR>
> <BR>
> A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
> Brandon Cope<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 13:28:28 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Carl Gustav<BR>
<BR>
CGS wrote:<BR>
> Sorry, I knew Cark Gustav was your king (not sure when or how many, but<BR>
> I knew he was a king) and assumed everyone else did as well.<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> Aren't all of you kings named that?  :)<BR>
<BR>
Well, variants of that name seems to be pretty common. The current king<BR>
is the 16th Carl. There have also been a number of Gustavs (or Gustaf),<BR>
for example Gustaf Wasa, famous for the "Wasaloppet" (a famous<BR>
cross-country skiing competion).<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Cleon? Which one?<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 13:33:49 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Graphic Help<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
> I can send you a Gif file containing Zane Healy's nice deckplan shapes<BR>
> for MacDraw (tomorrow, since that's on my Mac at home.) There are also<BR>
> Campaign cartographer sets out there, and I believe someone on this list<BR>
> even has a visio set.<BR>
<BR>
Are deckplan symbols (loads of them would be nice, in all shapes and<BR>
sizes) posted on the web somewhere? Preferrably in some kind of general<BR>
format (gif, jpg...). If not, perhaps they should be (hint, hint)...<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 13:42:43 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: linux software (it's about time)<BR>
<BR>
Mark A Nordstrand wrote:<BR>
> Announcing version 0.10.0 of the software formally known<BR>
> as Mark's Traveller Utilities for linux.  As of this release,<BR>
> it has been renamed to just MTU.  I've written and rewritten<BR>
> an explanation of this, but I suspect most people reading<BR>
> here can figure it out.<BR>
<BR>
WOHO !<BR>
<BR>
Great !<BR>
<BR>
I'll download and install this program as soon as I get a life (I have<BR>
some murderous deadlines this Wednesday).<BR>
<BR>
As a fellow Linux user, I salute you.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 13:49:10 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
<BR>
Karen and Michael Hughes wrote:<BR>
> Design, functionality, great mechanics or atmosphere. These are great ways<BR>
> to assess an RPG. But what about smell? Come on campers, what's you most<BR>
> favourite smelling RPG?<BR>
<BR>
"Kindred of the East" by White Wolf. In fact, that was the second thing<BR>
I noticed when I got the book by mail (the first being the nice cover).<BR>
It has a smell of rough, unfinished paper mixed with ink and a slight<BR>
overtone of ancient, forgotten bookshelf.<BR>
<BR>
I think that White Wolf actually did this on purpose, because no other<BR>
supplements (before or after KotE) smell the same way.<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 04:56:58 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: MT/TNE FF&S fluke<BR>
<BR>
I was just reading through FF&S (I've been doing that a lot since<BR>
joining this list) and I think I've discovered a fluke.<BR>
<BR>
If one were to design MT or CT ships using the Thruster Plate rules in<BR>
FF&S, one comes across an interesting situation.  FF&S fusion power<BR>
plants use *very* little fuel (kl/year as opposed to MT's kl/hour). <BR>
One could effectively design a vessel with unlimited "delta-v" (I use<BR>
the term loosely, for obvious reasons).  System Defense Boats could<BR>
operate for years without refuelling, and could devote oodles more room<BR>
to weapons and defenses.  Fighters can carry larger weapons, making<BR>
them an even bigger threat to capital ships (TNE small craft could,<BR>
under the right circumstances, be "ship killers" even before this<BR>
fluke).  And missiles, well, they've just been accorded unlimited<BR>
endurance.<BR>
<BR>
This would make for a very "cinematic" space-operaish kind of campaign,<BR>
with characters never having to worry about the state of their fuel<BR>
supply.  Bingo would just be something played by little old ladies at<BR>
church on Saturday night.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 14:01:45 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: You know that you play too much Traveller if.....<BR>
<BR>
Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
> Or when you hear the term "battle dress, utility" and you immediately<BR>
> think of a stripped-down version of powered combat armor.  Been in the<BR>
> military and reserves for 14 years, and this still happens.<BR>
<BR>
And what a fantastic utility item it would be. No more pains from<BR>
lifting furniture. No problem with the neighbour's dog biting you. And<BR>
even less problem from travelling salesmen, burglars, etc...  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 09:00:29 -0500<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
<BR>
> > What are (roughly) the volumes of the:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > TL-10 1000 Mj Meson Gun (spinal mount)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > and<BR>
> ><BR>
> > TL-10 2250 Mj Meson Gun (spinal mount)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Thanks<BR>
<BR>
Okay, the TL-12 versions then.<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 00:01:20 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>
<BR>
Most interesting.  I really really must get around to finishing the designs<BR>
in my in-tray.  The Marne class APC really needs to see the light of day.<BR>
<BR>
A question:  what kind of power plant are you using?  Fusion?  Is it the<BR>
same size for each model?<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 19:17:27 -0700<BR>
> From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
> Subject: Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>
> <BR>
> Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>
> Mongo Defense Force, Mongo/Jewell  TL 10; Date of this document: <BR>
> 001-1111<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 23:41:12 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? <BR>
<BR>
> From: "Dan Lane" <BR>
> No argument.  I consider any multifaction reintegration to be a variation<BR>
> on a common theme.  Doesn't matter who it is.  DGP apparently intended<BR>
> Margaret and Dulinor to get it on.<BR>
<BR>
Eww!  Talk about the alliance of creepy factions...  I'd rather even risk<BR>
_Lucan_ winning!  Maybe releasing Virus was a lesser evil after all.<BR>
<BR>
Still, a Margaret/Dulinor alliance would fix Dulinor's problem once and for<BR>
all:  Margaret's faction is very much one of unfettered corporate and noble<BR>
power, and wouldn't put up with any of Dulinor's nonsense about "reforming"<BR>
the Imperium.  Fortunately, (IMHO and IMTU) Dulinor is a demogogue, and the<BR>
only beneficiaries of his reforms would be the nobles from high-population<BR>
worlds, so some kind of compromise might be possible.  The main thing is<BR>
that there is no threat to the position of the nobility as a whole.<BR>
<BR>
Ya know - every time I think about the Rebellion I get more and more<BR>
committed to the cause of Brzk - the only true pansophontist leader.  Hail<BR>
Brzk!<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 09:21:12 +0100<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
>>>>>><BR>
As for the term "traveller," it's one of many elements of the original<BR>
game's 'color'  >><BR>
<BR>
When SPI first heard of the title [Traveller], they thought is was an<BR>
American Civil War game. For trivia buffs, why was that?<BR>
<BR>
Marc<BR>
>>>>>>>><BR>
<BR>
General Robert E Lee had a horse named Traveler.<BR>
<BR>
Any sad fiction/gaming nerds know which fictional characters owned owned<BR>
horses named:<BR>
<BR>
Iron Head<BR>
Horse<BR>
Home<BR>
<BR>
???<BR>
<BR>
MJD<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 08:51:48 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
<BR>
The TL-12 1000 Mj Meson Gun listed in Brilliant Lances is 1730m, is<BR>
144 meters long, weighs 1586 tons and costs MCr147.01.<BR>
<BR>
The next biggest size up is the TL-14 2000 Mj Meson Gun.  It is 2237m,<BR>
is 90 meters long, weighs 1883 tonnes, and costs MCr185.81.<BR>
<BR>
If you can wait two weeks until I'm back from my AT, I can design you a<BR>
TL-12 2250 Mj Meson Gun -- just let me know how long a tunnel you need.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --- Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net> wrote:<BR>
> > > What are (roughly) the volumes of the:<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > TL-10 1000 Mj Meson Gun (spinal mount)<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > and<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > TL-10 2250 Mj Meson Gun (spinal mount)<BR>
> > ><BR>
> > > Thanks<BR>
> <BR>
> Okay, the TL-12 versions then.<BR>
> <BR>
> A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
> Brandon Cope<BR>
> <BR>
> http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 09:01:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
At 09:21 AM 10/7/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Horse<BR>
<BR>
Dudley Do-Right of the RCMP.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 09:35:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>
<BR>
Actually, you would not have to match circular rotation. Simply time it<BR>
_just_ right and poof, you are docked. (well, that's what computers are for,<BR>
right?)<BR>
<BR>
I assume that damaged craft (w/o a computer running the docking protocol)<BR>
will have some other method of retrieval.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ----<BR>
First off, I'm thinking of  a  fighter  having  to  dock  with  a<BR>
roll*ing* ship  (I  did  specify  "mid-fight").  Second,  if  the<BR>
docking bay is on the axis of rotation (as in "Elite")  then  yes<BR>
this is easy.  But looking at most of the pictures of large ships<BR>
we have the docking bay is off-center ... so not  only  does  the<BR>
docking fighter have to match rotation  rates  but  also  has  to<BR>
follow a moving (in a circle)  docking  bay  (requiring  constant<BR>
course corrections) ... and in the case of the Tigress come in at<BR>
an angle too!  Quite a tricky and  hazardous  maneouver  ...  and<BR>
unwise if the fighter has sustained *any* kind of combat damage.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:04:54 -0400<BR>
From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? <BR>
<BR>
I'll try not to wax nostagic this time. I'm rather crusty, no doubt thought<BR>
a doddering old fool, in that I have never found a reason to move on from<BR>
the year 1979. For almost 22 years I have been stuck in the "rut" of using<BR>
the original books 1 thru 4, Mayday, Snapshot, Scouts & Assassins, Merchants<BR>
& Merchandise, a Traveller Logbook, Fifty Starbases and Sarships &<BR>
Spacecraft. Beyond those, which I consider my core canon, I pick and choose<BR>
bits that I like and ignore what I don't.<BR>
<BR>
For instance, I don't much care for the official milieu, but I do like the<BR>
strong Sword Worlds of 1105. I like the idea of the Anchients, but they are<BR>
humans of the not-so-distnant past IMTU. All of my scenarios, except when I<BR>
ran Murder on Arcturus Station, fit into frontier merchant or scouting<BR>
campaigns.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, the fact that I don't play in other milieux does not mean that I<BR>
don't know about the rest of Traveller. Nor does it mean that I don't want<BR>
to have a copy on hand, just in case I can glean a bit of knowledge from it<BR>
:-) Then there's the line that I give to my wife*, "It's a great<BR>
investment!"<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
*After sixteen years (as of yesterday), she has grown to accept it. She's<BR>
not blonde, .. er, blind to the truth. I guess that makes her an "enabler"<BR>
to my addiction?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:16:04 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 06-Oct-00 6:13:46 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Speaking of a fun name, does anyone know why it was named Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Marc can explain better, but we wanted a name evocative of what PCs were <BR>
supposed to do -- go from one star to another. <BR>
<BR>
> or why<BR>
>  it was purpously (?) misspelled?<BR>
<BR>
Two ells is the British spelling. Again, Marc's idea -- makes the title <BR>
unique.<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 23:57:23 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Pedantry and czechsums<BR>
<BR>
> > > -Russell "Second most pedantic poster to TML, why do you ask?" B<BR>
> ><BR>
> > And who do you think is first (hint, not me!)<BR>
><BR>
> Well, if not you, then...<BR>
><BR>
> ...um...<BR>
><BR>
> ...well, actually, Leonard, you were who I had in mind. It's not a BAD<BR>
thing,<BR>
> honest! Who were you thinking of?<BR>
><BR>
> -RB<BR>
<BR>
Peter Newman<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3132<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3133</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	10/7/00 9:16:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 7 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3133<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller? (Was Best Smelling)<BR>
Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
Attitude control<BR>
Re: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>
Re: Attitude control<BR>
Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
Re: Graphic Help<BR>
Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
Re: Relativity<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3132<BR>
RE: Ship combat<BR>
RE: Tigress Class<BR>
Re: Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>
Re: TNE Heresy?<BR>
RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3132<BR>
Re: Ship combat<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 21:17:10 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller? (Was Best Smelling)<BR>
<BR>
On 10/06/00 at 01:11 PM,  "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Speaking of a fun name, does anyone know why it was named<BR>
>Traveller, <BR>
<BR>
Because the PC's where, for the most part travellers who travelled from one system to another?<BR>
<BR>
or why it was purpously (?) misspelled?<BR>
<BR>
Traveller, misspelled?  <g>  Traveler is the US spelling, and IIRC, traveller is the British spelling. I think Marc liked the double "l" spelling.<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat,  7 Oct 2000 12:46:10 -0500<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
<BR>
>The TL-12 1000 Mj Meson Gun listed in Brilliant Lances is 1730m, is<BR>
>144 meters long, weighs 1586 tons and costs MCr147.01.<BR>
><BR>
>The next biggest size up is the TL-14 2000 Mj Meson Gun.  It is 2237m,<BR>
>is 90 meters long, weighs 1883 tonnes, and costs MCr185.81.<BR>
><BR>
>If you can wait two weeks until I'm back from my AT, I can design you a<BR>
>TL-12 2250 Mj Meson Gun -- just let me know how long a tunnel you need.<BR>
<BR>
I was going to redesign the Aurora and Maggart-class clippers for GURPS Traveller, and I needed some idea of how much space the spinal mounts took up (and so I could perhaps try to recreate them for GURPS Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
 <BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 14:27:04 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Douglas Sinclair <dns@smtp.interlog.com><BR>
Subject: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>It's a nice idea. But unfortunately, "momentum wheels" don't work well<BR>
>in the real world.<BR>
<BR>
Given that sales of spacecraft reaction wheels pay my paycheque, I must<BR>
protest :).  They certainly have their place.  First, a clarification of<BR>
terminology:<BR>
<BR>
Reaction wheels are flywheels with a nominal stored angular momentum (ie<BR>
speed) of zero.  For full 3-axis attitude control, you need at least<BR>
three.  Four are often used for redundancy in case of wheel failure.<BR>
<BR>
Momentum wheels are flywheels with a non-zero nominal stored angular<BR>
momentum.  Typically a spacecraft will only have one, aligned in the pitch<BR>
(orbit normal) axis.  They are used to give a spacecraft stiffness about<BR>
the roll and yaw axes.  It's analagous to spinning the whole spacecraft<BR>
(and there are many that do), but allows stabilized antennas, solar<BR>
arrays, etc.  It's also the same as a dual-spin spacecraft (like Galileo),<BR>
but with the spinning section inside.<BR>
<BR>
The third device in this class is the Control Moment Gyro.  This is a<BR>
wheel with a non-zero angular momentum on a gimbal that allows its spin<BR>
axis to be realigned.  A spacecraft will typically have three of these.<BR>
They're fairly rare.  Skylab is the only commonly known example that I can<BR>
think of.<BR>
<BR>
>At that point, you *have* to use attitude jets. This is why satellites<BR>
>are either configured to use tidal forces for stabilization, or to use<BR>
>attitude jets *with* small momementum wheels. The wheels even out the<BR>
>minor, periodic variations. But the random stuff, and the *long* period<BR>
>perturbations get corrected by the jets. <BR>
<BR>
>Given that medium and high earth orbit satellites can't be refueled or<BR>
>serviced, the fact that they use jets anyway is pretty telling.<BR>
<BR>
In low-earth orbit you will typically use magnetorquers instead of jets to<BR>
unload your wheels (momentum dumping).  These are ferrous rods wound with<BR>
wire to allow magnetic fields to be created.  An energized rod will try to<BR>
point north, just like a compass needle.  By energizing the right rod at<BR>
the right time, you can keep the wheel momentum low.  A spacecraft will<BR>
often have three magnetorquer rods, though many have only two.  Note that<BR>
at any particular moment, you can only generate torque about two axes.  It<BR>
is impossible to create a torque about the local magnetic field vector.<BR>
Instead, you must wait until your orbit moves you into a new location with<BR>
a different field direction.  This is why pure magnetic (no wheels or<BR>
jets) 3-axis attitude control is usually considered impossible. <BR>
<BR>
A combination of electric-motor powered wheels and electric magnetorquers<BR>
allows a spacecraft pointing system to run for a very long time.  The life<BR>
limiter is no longer running out of fuel, but instead bearing wear on the<BR>
wheels.  Wheels also give much finer control than jets, allowing<BR>
arc-second pointing stability.<BR>
<BR>
Doug Sinclair<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 19:44:05 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 9:01 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 09:21 AM 10/7/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >Horse<BR>
><BR>
> Dudley Do-Right of the RCMP.<BR>
> --<BR>
<BR>
Also Conan<BR>
<BR>
Actually, come to think of it, IIRC Conan had horses at various times<BR>
called Iron Head, Horse and Home<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 11:42:50 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Attitude control<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:23:10 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> <BR>
> It's a nice idea. But unfortunately, "momentum wheels" don't work well<BR>
> in the real world. In *theory*, everything will even out. In practice,<BR>
> after not all that long, you've got the wheel (or sphere, in this case)<BR>
> rotating at maximum safe speed in some direction. <BR>
> <BR>
> At that point, you *have* to use attitude jets. This is why satellites<BR>
> are either configured to use tidal forces for stabilization, or to use<BR>
> attitude jets *with* small momementum wheels. The wheels even out the<BR>
> minor, periodic variations. But the random stuff, and the *long* period<BR>
> perturbations get corrected by the jets. <BR>
<BR>
It was precisely this process which led to the loss of Mars Climate<BR>
Observer.  MCO maintained attitude using reaction wheels.  However, there<BR>
were asymmetric torques on the craft (mostly solar wind pressure) which<BR>
caused the wheels to gradually spin up in one direction applying counter-<BR>
torque.  When the wheels neared max rpm, the attitude thruster would be<BR>
fired and the wheels spun down.  This is called a "momentum dump".<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, the configuration of attitude thrusters on MCO was not<BR>
symmetrical about the center of mass.  As a result, it was impossible to<BR>
apply *only* torque with the thrusters; there was always a translational<BR>
(that is, net thrust on the craft as a whole) component.  This was small,<BR>
but over time, it added up.<BR>
<BR>
The spacecraft designers knew about the imbalance, of course.  Each time a<BR>
momentum dump was performed, they would calculate the effect of the<BR>
translational excess thrust on the craft's velocity, and hence its<BR>
predicted course.  However, the modeling programs used by the contractor<BR>
and JPL disagreed on the units used to measure the translational thrust<BR>
applied, which caused JPL astrogators' positional estimates to be off by<BR>
an ever-increasing margin -- a margin big enough to send the craft into<BR>
the Martian atmosphere on arrival.<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of which, has everyone else heard that the brilliant Cassini<BR>
engineers failed to account for doppler shifting of the Huygens probe's<BR>
telemetry in designing the receiver on Cassini, and that science return<BR>
may be lost as a result?  Everyone in favor of scrapping JPL and starting<BR>
from scratch, raise your hands.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:33:40 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, you would not have to match circular rotation. Simply time it<BR>
> _just_ right and poof, you are docked. (well, that's what computers are for,<BR>
> right?)<BR>
<BR>
No, if you do it that way, you'll get swatted by one of the bulkheads<BR>
or the decks. Because even though you made it thru the harch, the ship<BR>
will be moving *sideways* with respect to you.<BR>
<BR>
Think of it as being like trying to hop into a boxcar as the train goes<BR>
roaring by the platform at 60 mph. If you jump at the right time,<BR>
you'll go thru the open door just fine. And then slam into the back<BR>
wall of the car at 60 mph, or skid across the floor of the car at 60mph<BR>
and then slam into the back wall with your remaining velocity. <BR>
<BR>
In either case.... <ouch!><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:40:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Attitude control<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 21:23:10 PST<BR>
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> It's a nice idea. But unfortunately, "momentum wheels" don't work well<BR>
>> in the real world. In *theory*, everything will even out. In practice,<BR>
>> after not all that long, you've got the wheel (or sphere, in this case)<BR>
>> rotating at maximum safe speed in some direction. <BR>
>> <BR>
>> At that point, you *have* to use attitude jets. This is why satellites<BR>
>> are either configured to use tidal forces for stabilization, or to use<BR>
>> attitude jets *with* small momementum wheels. The wheels even out the<BR>
>> minor, periodic variations. But the random stuff, and the *long* period<BR>
>> perturbations get corrected by the jets. <BR>
><BR>
> It was precisely this process which led to the loss of Mars Climate<BR>
> Observer.  MCO maintained attitude using reaction wheels.  However, there<BR>
> were asymmetric torques on the craft (mostly solar wind pressure) which<BR>
> caused the wheels to gradually spin up in one direction applying counter-<BR>
> torque.  When the wheels neared max rpm, the attitude thruster would be<BR>
> fired and the wheels spun down.  This is called a "momentum dump".<BR>
><BR>
> Unfortunately, the configuration of attitude thrusters on MCO was not<BR>
> symmetrical about the center of mass.  As a result, it was impossible to<BR>
> apply *only* torque with the thrusters; there was always a translational<BR>
> (that is, net thrust on the craft as a whole) component.  This was small,<BR>
> but over time, it added up.<BR>
<BR>
Stupid design. As I've noted before, the *moment arm* generated by<BR>
thruster pairs has to be symmetrical about the COM. Which means either<BR>
identical thrusters at equal distances, or thrusters with *differing*<BR>
thrusts at unequal distances. <BR>
<BR>
It's worth the extra hassle to mount thrusters on a "boom", if you are<BR>
stuck with using identical units.<BR>
<BR>
> The spacecraft designers knew about the imbalance, of course.  Each time a<BR>
> momentum dump was performed, they would calculate the effect of the<BR>
> translational excess thrust on the craft's velocity, and hence its<BR>
> predicted course.  However, the modeling programs used by the contractor<BR>
> and JPL disagreed on the units used to measure the translational thrust<BR>
> applied, which caused JPL astrogators' positional estimates to be off by<BR>
> an ever-increasing margin -- a margin big enough to send the craft into<BR>
> the Martian atmosphere on arrival.<BR>
<BR>
miscommunication strikes again. Or rather *assumptions*.<BR>
<BR>
> Speaking of which, has everyone else heard that the brilliant Cassini<BR>
> engineers failed to account for doppler shifting of the Huygens probe's<BR>
> telemetry in designing the receiver on Cassini, and that science return<BR>
> may be lost as a result?  Everyone in favor of scrapping JPL and starting<BR>
> from scratch, raise your hands.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. But I sure wish that Goddard hadn't refused to accept the help of<BR>
the group that eventually became JPL. If they'd been working<BR>
*together*, things might have been a *lot* different.<BR>
<BR>
In any case, we don't need to get rid of JPL. Just get the US to drop<BR>
these silly "feet" and "pounds". <BR>
<BR>
Metric has been *legal* in the US for more than 200 years! And it would<BR>
have been nice if we'd switched much earlier.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:57:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Ya know - every time I think about the Rebellion I get more and more<BR>
> committed to the cause of Brzk - the only true pansophontist leader.  Hail<BR>
> Brzk!<BR>
<BR>
Ah. So you're a Brzker? :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:54:18 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Graphic Help<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>
>> I can send you a Gif file containing Zane Healy's nice deckplan shapes<BR>
>> for MacDraw (tomorrow, since that's on my Mac at home.) There are also<BR>
>> Campaign cartographer sets out there, and I believe someone on this list<BR>
>> even has a visio set.<BR>
><BR>
> Are deckplan symbols (loads of them would be nice, in all shapes and<BR>
> sizes) posted on the web somewhere? Preferrably in some kind of general<BR>
> format (gif, jpg...). If not, perhaps they should be (hint, hint)...<BR>
<BR>
*Not* JPEG! <BR>
<BR>
GIF, PNG or some *vector* format, please.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, anybody know of a good (and cheap!) drawing program that can<BR>
produce CGM or other vector format files? It'd be even better if it<BR>
could read files from some CAD programs.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 14:00:49 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>It's a nice idea. But unfortunately, "momentum wheels" don't work well<BR>
>>in the real world.<BR>
><BR>
> Given that sales of spacecraft reaction wheels pay my paycheque, I must<BR>
> protest :).  They certainly have their place.  First, a clarification of<BR>
> terminology:<BR>
><BR>
> Reaction wheels are flywheels with a nominal stored angular momentum (ie<BR>
> speed) of zero.  For full 3-axis attitude control, you need at least<BR>
> three.  Four are often used for redundancy in case of wheel failure.<BR>
><BR>
> Momentum wheels are flywheels with a non-zero nominal stored angular<BR>
> momentum.  Typically a spacecraft will only have one, aligned in the pitch<BR>
> (orbit normal) axis.  They are used to give a spacecraft stiffness about<BR>
> the roll and yaw axes.  It's analagous to spinning the whole spacecraft<BR>
> (and there are many that do), but allows stabilized antennas, solar<BR>
> arrays, etc.  It's also the same as a dual-spin spacecraft (like Galileo),<BR>
> but with the spinning section inside.<BR>
><BR>
> The third device in this class is the Control Moment Gyro.  This is a<BR>
> wheel with a non-zero angular momentum on a gimbal that allows its spin<BR>
> axis to be realigned.  A spacecraft will typically have three of these.<BR>
> They're fairly rare.  Skylab is the only commonly known example that I can<BR>
> think of.<BR>
><BR>
>>At that point, you *have* to use attitude jets. This is why satellites<BR>
>>are either configured to use tidal forces for stabilization, or to use<BR>
>>attitude jets *with* small momementum wheels. The wheels even out the<BR>
>>minor, periodic variations. But the random stuff, and the *long* period<BR>
>>perturbations get corrected by the jets. <BR>
><BR>
>>Given that medium and high earth orbit satellites can't be refueled or<BR>
>>serviced, the fact that they use jets anyway is pretty telling.<BR>
><BR>
> In low-earth orbit you will typically use magnetorquers instead of jets to<BR>
> unload your wheels (momentum dumping).  These are ferrous rods wound with<BR>
> wire to allow magnetic fields to be created.  An energized rod will try to<BR>
> point north, just like a compass needle.  By energizing the right rod at<BR>
> the right time, you can keep the wheel momentum low.  A spacecraft will<BR>
> often have three magnetorquer rods, though many have only two.  Note that<BR>
> at any particular moment, you can only generate torque about two axes.  It<BR>
> is impossible to create a torque about the local magnetic field vector.<BR>
> Instead, you must wait until your orbit moves you into a new location with<BR>
> a different field direction.  This is why pure magnetic (no wheels or<BR>
> jets) 3-axis attitude control is usually considered impossible. <BR>
><BR>
> A combination of electric-motor powered wheels and electric magnetorquers<BR>
> allows a spacecraft pointing system to run for a very long time.  The life<BR>
> limiter is no longer running out of fuel, but instead bearing wear on the<BR>
> wheels.  Wheels also give much finer control than jets, allowing<BR>
> arc-second pointing stability.<BR>
<BR>
Manned ships need high rates of change more than they need pointing<BR>
accuracy. Thus I don't see wheels or magnetic solutions as viable for<BR>
Traveller ships.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 18:57:15 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 6 Oct 2000 11:03:09 -0400 (EDT), Eric Freitas <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Relativity is not relevant to Traveller.  In Traveller we nimbly sidestep the<BR>
>entire issue of light speed, and FTL.  We use shortcuts to jump around the<BR>
>Universe, much like a combination of wormholes and hyperspace.<BR>
<BR>
...which immediately leads to problems with conservation of mass/energy...<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 16:11:30 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3132<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> >> > -Russell "Second most pedantic poster to TML, why do you ask?" B<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> And who do you think is first (hint, not me!)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Well, if not you, then...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ...um...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ...well, actually, Leonard, you were who I had in mind. It's not a BAD<BR>
thing,<BR>
> > honest! Who were you thinking of?<BR>
><BR>
> I'm *certain* you can think of a person who insists on the letter of<BR>
> the rules. If that's not pedantic... <g><BR>
<BR>
<deadpan><BR>
Surely you'd agree that such a characteristic is better termed "literalist"<BR>
than "pedantic".<BR>
</deadpan><BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:12:23 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Ship combat<BR>
<BR>
And as I said then: Without a full knowledge of technologies that don't<BR>
exist yet it's all vapor argument. I've seen too many engineering dodges to<BR>
do things that were "impossible" just a few decades ago to discount a<BR>
specific speculative science game rule just because we either can't do it<BR>
with present technology ***or*** don't know a way to do it without breaking<BR>
some "law" which may be shone to have an undiscovered exception by our<BR>
present scientific thinking.<BR>
<BR>
There are still things we don't know about physics. Hell, there are<BR>
competent physicists who don't believe in the big bang. So I don't accept a<BR>
"It doesn't work that way in the real world" argument. As long as the game<BR>
rules are ***consistent***. I have much more of a problem with ship designs<BR>
that don't jive with the rule set, or battledress that's too big to be worn,<BR>
as described by the rule set, than I do with this kind of stuff.<BR>
<BR>
If the rule set has sensor and stealth rules that are applied consistently<BR>
then I'll accept them. If they seem arbitrary and the technology described<BR>
opens up a whole lot of other uses that the game does not support then I<BR>
have a problem with it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:02 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Ship combat<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> RCID - Alun Moon writes:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> Traveller space combat will be much like current day<BR>
>>> Anti-Submarine-Warfare (ASW).<BR>
>><BR>
>>Actually, if you use realistic sensor ranges, it's more like two guys with<BR>
>>guns on a perfectly flat field with no cover anywhere.<BR>
>><BR>
>>If you drop grav focusing, it instead resembles two people with automatic<BR>
>>weapons shooting at one another from ten feet ;)<BR>
><BR>
> Like many things in any game world it all depends on what your<BR>
suppositions<BR>
> for imaginary technology are. We've gone through this before, more than<BR>
> once.  What is a realistic sensor range depends upon what suppositions you<BR>
> make about stealth technology and emission control.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that *current* sensors could track a non-stealthed<BR>
Traveller ship at multiple AU ranges!<BR>
<BR>
And there are some pretty hard limits on stealthing the IR output of a<BR>
ship. Mostly due to those nasty laws of thermodynamics, and the<BR>
requirement that the crew stay alive and that the ship not melt.<BR>
<BR>
We went into this at *great* length a few months back.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 20:17:14 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Tigress Class<BR>
<BR>
I just write it off as canon technology that is beyond our present<BR>
capability. The book does say that gravitic technology is involved in the<BR>
design so that makes it beyond our ability to critique, in my opinion, as<BR>
every gravity tech or contragrav device in Traveller meets the requirements<BR>
of Clark's Law anyway.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 1:23 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Tigress Class<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I almost hate to point it out as it' "forbidden cannon" but SOM states<BR>
that<BR>
> attitude control is achieved through the use of an inertial gyroscope made<BR>
> of superdense and revolving at speeds of 1 million RPM. Focus gravity<BR>
> modules are used to allow the ship to '"push" on the gyro with physical<BR>
> contact. Attitude thrusters are used as a backup system. SOM says that<BR>
> attitude thrusters use gas-jets, not grav plates.<BR>
<BR>
It's a nice idea. But unfortunately, "momentum wheels" don't work well<BR>
in the real world. In *theory*, everything will even out. In practice,<BR>
after not all that long, you've got the wheel (or sphere, in this case)<BR>
rotating at maximum safe speed in some direction.<BR>
<BR>
At that point, you *have* to use attitude jets. This is why satellites<BR>
are either configured to use tidal forces for stabilization, or to use<BR>
attitude jets *with* small momementum wheels. The wheels even out the<BR>
minor, periodic variations. But the random stuff, and the *long* period<BR>
perturbations get corrected by the jets.<BR>
<BR>
Given that medium and high earth orbit satellites can't be refueled or<BR>
serviced, the fact that they use jets anyway is pretty telling.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 17:54:59 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>
<BR>
>A question:  what kind of power plant are you using?  Fusion?  Is it the<BR>
>same size for each model?<BR>
<BR>
  The Striker armour system is log8, IIRC, so fuser size must change<BR>
given some of the armour thicknesses on the non-carriers?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 18:16:26 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: TNE Heresy?<BR>
<BR>
On 10/03/00 at 09:01 AM,  Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>Here's something of an oddball question, not really gearhead, I'm<BR>
>afraid.<BR>
<BR>
>I recently got hold of a TNE rulebook, and their UPP in there had<BR>
>eight  stats (IIRC, "Strength Dexterity Endurance Education<BR>
>Intelligence Charisma  <dash> Psionic strength <dash> social<BR>
>standing")<BR>
<BR>
>This seemed to me like a pretty good notation, getting the most<BR>
>significant  stats into a single UPP.  What do people think of<BR>
>this?  Was it a good  idea, bad idea, heresy of the highest order?<BR>
<BR>
It struck me as being an excellent idea, but are you sure it was in that order?  From memory, I thought it was STR AGL CON INT EDU CHR -- PSI -- SOC<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 18:27:17 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: William Molendyk <wmolendyk@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>
<BR>
Matt Bond wrote:<BR>
> So the fighters have to match the roll when vectoring for approach... big <BR>
> deal.  Even if the Carrier hasn't rolled during the mission, the fighter<BR>
> almost certainly has, so it has to roll at some point anyway to dock.<BR>
><BR>
> It isn't that difficult to dock with a rolling target... <BR>
> Remember Elite?<BR>
> <BR>
> First off, I'm thinking of  a  fighter  having  to  dock  with  a roll*ing*<BR>
> ship  (I  did  specify  "mid-fight").  Second,  if  the docking bay is on the<BR>
> axis of rotation (as in "Elite")  then  yes this is easy.  But looking at<BR>
> most of the pictures of large ships we have the docking bay is off-center ...<BR>
> so not  only  does  the docking fighter have to match rotation  rates  but<BR>
>  also  has  to follow a moving (in a circle)  docking  bay  (requiring<BR>
>  constant course corrections) ... and in the case of the Tigress come in at<BR>
> an angle too!  Quite a tricky and  hazardous  maneouver  ...  and unwise if<BR>
> the fighter has sustained *any* kind of combat damage.<BR>
<BR>
Another way you could look at it is that you have to treat carriers the same<BR>
way they are treated in todays surface navy.  When planes are taking off or<BR>
landing the carrier must maintain a steady course and heading.  A carrier in<BR>
space may have to do the same.  Yes, it makes them vulnerable, but thats why<BR>
they have escorts for protection and stay out of the line of battle.<BR>
<BR>
William Molendyk<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 19:55:07 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3132<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>>> -Russell "Second most pedantic poster to TML, why do you ask?" B<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> And who do you think is first (hint, not me!)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Well, if not you, then...<BR>
>><BR>
>> ...um...<BR>
>><BR>
>> ...well, actually, Leonard, you were who I had in mind. It's not a<BR>
>> BAD thing, honest! Who were you thinking of?<BR>
>><BR>
>> I'm *certain* you can think of a person who insists on the letter of<BR>
>> the rules. If that's not pedantic... <g><BR>
><BR>
> <deadpan><BR>
> Surely you'd agree that such a characteristic is better termed<BR>
> "literalist" than "pedantic".<BR>
> </deadpan><BR>
<BR>
Ah. A new contender for the title!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 19:56:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Ship combat<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> And as I said then: Without a full knowledge of technologies that don't<BR>
> exist yet it's all vapor argument. I've seen too many engineering dodges to<BR>
> do things that were "impossible" just a few decades ago to discount a<BR>
> specific speculative science game rule just because we either can't do it<BR>
> with present technology ***or*** don't know a way to do it without breaking<BR>
> some "law" which may be shone to have an undiscovered exception by our<BR>
> present scientific thinking.<BR>
<BR>
I serriously dfoubt that any of those things were "impossible" because<BR>
they violated the laws of thermodynamics, or one of the conservatiuon<BR>
laws. <BR>
<BR>
These are a whole different "level" of things than most other things in<BR>
science. They are at almost the same level as stuff like the square/cube<BR>
law.<BR>
<BR>
Science and engineering work *very* differently.<BR>
<BR>
> There are still things we don't know about physics. Hell, there are<BR>
> competent physicists who don't believe in the big bang. So I don't accept a<BR>
> "It doesn't work that way in the real world" argument. As long as the game<BR>
> rules are ***consistent***. I have much more of a problem with ship designs<BR>
> that don't jive with the rule set, or battledress that's too big to be worn,<BR>
> as described by the rule set, than I do with this kind of stuff.<BR>
<BR>
A lot of us have problems when the rules say that things *can't* be<BR>
done that we can do right now. Sure, there may be some way to stealth<BR>
ships so that they can't be seen beyond a few light seconds. But that<BR>
wouldn't be used by normal ships, *and* the rules make no provision for<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
When the rules *don't* say otherwise, stuff *must* match up with the<BR>
real world.<BR>
<BR>
The detection ranges make as little sense as the rules about radio<BR>
ranges. <BR>
<BR>
> If the rule set has sensor and stealth rules that are applied consistently<BR>
> then I'll accept them. If they seem arbitrary and the technology described<BR>
> opens up a whole lot of other uses that the game does not support then I<BR>
> have a problem with it.<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that until FF&S there *weren't* any stealth rules. Just<BR>
sensor ranges that were complete and utter *nonsense* when applied to<BR>
normal ships.<BR>
<BR>
If Car Wars said a high powered engine couldn't drive a car faster than<BR>
20 mph, I think you'd consider it a *stupid* mistake. The sensor rules<BR>
in the older editions of the rules are just as bad.<BR>
<BR>
Any time I am faced with a situation where I'd have to tell players<BR>
that something *they* know works in the real world *won't* work in the<BR>
game, with no more justification than "that's what it says in the<BR>
rules", I consider the game designers to have goofed unless they have<BR>
*specificly* stated that there's "in game" reason why it doesn't work.<BR>
<BR>
The fact that they made a mistake by *assuming* something without<BR>
checking it, and then went on to design situations based on that<BR>
mistaken idea makes things *worse. It doesn't legitimize the mistake. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3133<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3134</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, October 8 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3134<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
RE: Plea for font help!<BR>
RE: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
RE: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
Re: Introduction<BR>
Re: Relativity<BR>
RE: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
Re: Imperial Lines<BR>
Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
Is G:T useful as background material?<BR>
Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
equestrian in T4<BR>
Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
Re: Attitude control<BR>
Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
[Fwd: Striker: OPERATION ORDER: Operation Queens of Battle]<BR>
Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
Announcement: the Traveller Radio play<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3133<BR>
Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 21:10:00 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
From: MJ Dougherty <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
<BR>
>Any sad fiction/gaming nerds know which fictional characters owned owned<BR>
>horses named:<BR>
<BR>
>Horse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
    Errand.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 17:45:52 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Plea for font help!<BR>
<BR>
David Jacques wrote :<BR>
> Frank said:<BR>
> >Timothy Collinson wrote :<BR>
> >> Wow!  The old Trigan Empire.  What a blast from the past!  I almost<BR>
> >> forgotten all about it.  I wonder if you could buy the strip in<BR>
> >> book format somewhere?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Yes, you can. A freind of mine has hardcover reprints of the<BR>
> > first two major storylines. I, on the other hand, have quite<BR>
> > a few originals from "Look & Learn" magazine.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Do you have a contact for the book? Who published it, when, and<BR>
> > what is the ISBN and full title so I can quote it when talking to the<BR>
> > publisher?<BR>
<BR>
OK, I've got the details, and I was wrong, he only has one book, and I doubt<BR>
it's currently available. What he has is, in his own words :<BR>
<BR>
"I have "The Look and Learn Book of The Trigan Empire". A Fleetway<BR>
Annual. IPC Magazines Ltd.1973. Has about the first 70 pagers of the saga."<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 17:51:23 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
MJ Dougherty wrote :<BR>
> Any sad fiction/gaming nerds know which fictional characters owned owned<BR>
> horses named:<BR>
><BR>
> Iron Head<BR>
> Horse<BR>
<BR>
I don't know of a horse named Horse, but I know of both a cat named Horse<BR>
and a man called Horse.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 00:18:10 -0500<BR>
From: Brandon Cope <copeab@elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> MJ Dougherty wrote :<BR>
> > Any sad fiction/gaming nerds know which fictional characters owned owned<BR>
> > horses named:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Iron Head<BR>
> > Horse<BR>
><BR>
> I don't know of a horse named Horse, but I know of both a cat named Horse<BR>
> and a man called Horse.<BR>
<BR>
I know about a horse with no name someone rode out of (or into?) a desert on.<BR>
<BR>
(two stars: name the band)<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 22:35:59 -0700<BR>
From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
Brandon Cope wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I know about a horse with no name someone rode out of (or into?)<BR>
> a desert on.<BR>
><BR>
> (two stars: name the band)<BR>
<BR>
America. I will never be able to forget that song; I was subjected to it on<BR>
a regular basis for an entire Summer once. A very unpleasant flashback.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 13:15:08 +0100<BR>
From: Martin Hardgrave <martin@deira.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Introduction<BR>
<BR>
In message <MABBKCEOJNHKAJKBINPDKEGFCAAA.gmgoffin@earthlink.net>, "Glenn <BR>
M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net> writes<BR>
>>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi><BR>
><BR>
>>As a newbie on the list, I think it is proper to introduce myself.<BR>
>><BR>
>>I have been reading TML on and off for some four years now, so I remember<BR>
>>some near-c rocks and pirates. Perhaps I should once again construct an<BR>
>>IMTU code...<BR>
><BR>
>Tervetuloa, mutta sin et ole newbie.  Olet lurker.<BR>
><BR>
>--Glenn<BR>
><BR>
valkoisia papuja tomaattikastikkeessa<BR>
<BR>
(it's the only Finnish I know)<BR>
- -- <BR>
Martin Hardgrave<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 11:28:56 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi><BR>
Subject: Re: Relativity<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 6 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> > Relativity is not relevant to Traveller.  In Traveller we nimbly sidestep the<BR>
> > entire issue of light speed, and FTL.  We use shortcuts to jump around the<BR>
> > Universe, much like a combination of wormholes and hyperspace.<BR>
> Since Traveller ships *can* reach near c speeds with their maneuver<BR>
> drives, relativity *is* relevant.<BR>
<BR>
With heplar, if you use it, relativity is less relevant, of course, <BR>
compared to constant thrust plates or some other more magic tech.<BR>
<BR>
And actually, when I first played Imperium some ten years ago, I thought<BR>
that relativistic effects were a great relief to the nutcases travelling<BR>
to Luuru system. Some five years aboard a spaceship in the middle of<BR>
nowhere is not my idea of recreation. Hm, I wonder just what kind of power<BR>
did the ships have then, five years is a long time. Depends on the ship<BR>
design system, of course.<BR>
<BR>
Which reminds me of my plan to send a probe to a nearby star system, on<BR>
our current technology. (Thought to make this a study project...) With a<BR>
speed like 0.1c it takes about a hundred years to Epsilon Eridani, a<BR>
randomly selected nearby system with probable planets. The current power<BR>
systems could be very difficult to use on a mission like this, as the use<BR>
fission power. Fission fuel would lose its potency even it was only<BR>
stored, and not used. However, I don't know the half-lifes of currently<BR>
used fission batteries in space probes. Still, the problem of building<BR>
anything which lasts hundred years on its own and works is very big. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----<BR>
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<---><BR>
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->><BR>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 00:01:56 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
Luther Martin wrote :<BR>
> Brandon Cope wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > I know about a horse with no name someone rode out of (or into?)<BR>
> > a desert on.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > (two stars: name the band)<BR>
><BR>
> America. I will never be able to forget that song; I was<BR>
> subjected to it on a regular basis for an entire Summer<BR>
> once. A very unpleasant flashback.<BR>
<BR>
You should try having to actually play it !<BR>
<BR>
Two chords for the verse and two slightly different chords for the chorus,<BR>
following the same monotonous pattern for a very long time.<BR>
<BR>
Probably not the worst song to have to play, but it's approaching it.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 14:02:49 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Imperial Lines<BR>
<BR>
At 14:36 06.10.00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>Than again I guess it was just 4 issues (I just had one or two items for #5 I<BR>
>guess, also on the CD, just not mentioned as such).<BR>
So, when is the next edition due? <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 14:09:26 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
<BR>
This person needs serious help ...<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
<BR>
>Traveller.  Traveller smells good, tastes good, and leaves a great shine<BR>
>with no waxy build up!<BR>
><BR>
>After my surgury, I was stuck in the hospital for a month, then The Regency<BR>
>Sourcebook came out, I was relased within days!  GDW closed, I get pneumonia!<BR>
><BR>
>Traveller does everything!  Airdrop copies in Hebrew and Arabic over the<BR>
>Middle east, and peace will break out!  Sobo played Rifts, and now he's<BR>
>gone!  Traveller toppled the Soviet Union!!!!<BR>
><BR>
>Traveller heals the sick!  Copies should be be brioadcasted by SETI, to<BR>
>prove we are an advanced species!  I rub Traveller books over my body!!<BR>
><BR>
>Traveller.  It's even fun to say the word.<BR>
>TravellerTravellerTravellerTravellerTraveller.<BR>
<BR>
Had i been drinking, you would have owed me one (you know what).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:09:17 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Is G:T useful as background material?<BR>
<BR>
I use a modified version of the T4 rules set with a bunch of<BR>
supplements. I have purchased the GURPS Traveller Alien Races books, as<BR>
well as some other of the supplements.<BR>
<BR>
Question: Would the GURPS Traveller main book be useful to me as a<BR>
background resource? I already have Milleu: 0, so I have general<BR>
information on the workings of nobility etc...<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 15:12:51 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
> Probably not the worst song to have to play, but it's approaching it.<BR>
<BR>
"Temple of Love" by the Sisters of Mercy would probably be worse. Listen<BR>
closely to the bassline some time...  :-)<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:34:47 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> > Ya know - every time I think about the Rebellion I get more and more<BR>
> > committed to the cause of Brzk - the only true pansophontist leader. <BR>
> > Hail Brzk!<BR>
> <BR>
> Ah. So you're a Brzker? :-)<BR>
<BR>
Nah.  They're his Huscarles!<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 17:17:24 +0200<BR>
From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se><BR>
Subject: equestrian in T4<BR>
<BR>
If this subject has been brought up before, please ignore me.<BR>
<BR>
I have started writing a small VB program for character generation with the<BR>
T4 rules. The program now rolls for character attributes, some homeworld<BR>
attributes and character background skills.<BR>
<BR>
Ever now an then a character gets computer-2 or grav craft-2. almost every<BR>
character gets equestrian-1 or more, though. How common are horses in<BR>
milieu-0? More common than computers? I know the T4 rules are considered<BR>
broken, but this obsession with horses is ridiculous.<BR>
<BR>
The reason for all of this is that for a new character you roll four times<BR>
for background skills. Fist 1D for background skill type, where 5 or higher<BR>
gives high tech skills. After that another D6 is rolled to see what high<BR>
tech skill is recieved. On a roll of 6 or higher the character gets<BR>
Equestrian. That is OK with me. But there ar DM:s for both rolls. SOC < 6,<BR>
homeworld TL < 6 and homeworld LawLevel < 6 adds a negative one each. SOC ><BR>
7, TL > 7 and LawLevel > 7 all add one. With a total of just +1 on each of<BR>
the two rolls, chances are high that the character will talk to horses.<BR>
Equestrian-4 is not uncommon even for characters from vacuum worlds! Whats<BR>
up with this? Any suggestions for alterations? Should I replace equestrian<BR>
with Administration or some other skill?<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps I should wait for T5 or for my copy of the CT reprints to arrive.<BR>
<BR>
    /Tage<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 11:28:38 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
<BR>
Tage Borg wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> If this subject has been brought up before, please ignore me.<BR>
> <BR>
> I have started writing a small VB program for character generation with the<BR>
> T4 rules. The program now rolls for character attributes, some homeworld<BR>
> attributes and character background skills.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ever now an then a character gets computer-2 or grav craft-2. almost every<BR>
> character gets equestrian-1 or more, though. How common are horses in<BR>
> milieu-0? More common than computers? I know the T4 rules are considered<BR>
> broken, but this obsession with horses is ridiculous.<BR>
<BR>
From looking at the modifiers, I suspect that the availability of<BR>
Equestrian on the Background Skills table is intended to reflect riding<BR>
horses (or other animals, such as the poni) as a leisure activity for<BR>
the well-to-do, rather than as a routine means of transportation. <BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> The reason for all of this is that for a new character you roll four times<BR>
> for background skills. Fist 1D for background skill type, where 5 or higher<BR>
> gives high tech skills. After that another D6 is rolled to see what high<BR>
> tech skill is recieved. On a roll of 6 or higher the character gets<BR>
> Equestrian. That is OK with me. But there ar DM:s for both rolls. SOC < 6,<BR>
> homeworld TL < 6 and homeworld LawLevel < 6 adds a negative one each. SOC ><BR>
> 7, TL > 7 and LawLevel > 7 all add one. With a total of just +1 on each of<BR>
> the two rolls, chances are high that the character will talk to horses.<BR>
> Equestrian-4 is not uncommon even for characters from vacuum worlds! Whats<BR>
> up with this? Any suggestions for alterations? Should I replace equestrian<BR>
> with Administration or some other skill?<BR>
<BR>
Well, you could have your program re-roll any background skills over<BR>
level 1.  That would reflect the notion that background skills should be<BR>
broad, rather than deep.  Using this fix, many characters would have<BR>
Equestrian-1, but you would avoid the oddity of some poor character<BR>
having Equestrian-3 at the expense of other, more useful skills.<BR>
<BR>
Alternately, you could rearrange the High Tech Skills table as follows:<BR>
<BR>
1.  Mechanics<BR>
2.  Ground Craft<BR>
3.  Computer<BR>
4.  Language<BR>
5.  Equestrian<BR>
6.  Business<BR>
<BR>
This would still keep Equestrian as mostly an upper-class activity,<BR>
while eliminating the "ceiling effect" (rolls maxing out at 6) that<BR>
gives a disproportionate Equestrian result on the unmodified table.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 11:45:19 -0500<BR>
From: D Smart <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Attitude control<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 11:42:50 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
> Subject: <BR>
> <BR>
> Speaking of which, has everyone else heard that the brilliant Cassini<BR>
> engineers failed to account for doppler shifting of the Huygens probe's<BR>
> telemetry in designing the receiver on Cassini, and that science return<BR>
> may be lost as a result?  Everyone in favor of scrapping JPL and starting<BR>
> from scratch, raise your hands.<BR>
<BR>
WHAT?!? THOSE STUPID #*$*(&@#&(^&#^ MORONS!<BR>
<BR>
Haven't they ever heard of "design reviews"?<BR>
<BR>
Cripes, even *I* know about doppler shifts and I'm not even<BR>
an engineer<BR>
or a scientist.<BR>
<BR>
Who were they using on their design teams? 8 year olds?<BR>
(Sorry, Ditzie)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 11:51:03 -0500<BR>
From: D Smart <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Manned ships need high rates of change more than they need pointing<BR>
> accuracy. Thus I don't see wheels or magnetic solutions as viable for<BR>
> Traveller ships.<BR>
<BR>
Maybe not for general maneuvering but wouldn't such accuracy<BR>
be<BR>
desireable when using a spinal mount for planetary<BR>
bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 10:32:50 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: [Fwd: Striker: OPERATION ORDER: Operation Queens of Battle]<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
SITUATION:<BR>
<BR>
Mongo rebels, having successfully reconnoitered Ming's secret base, are<BR>
using heavy TL 10 artillery to prepare for an assault on the base.<BR>
Loyalist forces are conducting probing attacks to locate and destroy<BR>
rebel artillery.<BR>
<BR>
MISSION:<BR>
Loyalist forces will attempt to locate and destroy all rebel artillery.<BR>
<BR>
ENEMY:<BR>
Loyalist Reinforced Infantry Company(-) (Conscript)<BR>
        + Loyalist Grav Tank Platoon (Long Service)<BR>
Loyalist Secret Police Platoon (Picked)<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------<BR>
Rebel Merciless Artillery Battery (Long Service)<BR>
Rebel Infantry Company(-) (Conscript)<BR>
<BR>
SUPPLY:<BR>
Units with support units represented on the table, or in base, are at<BR>
100% supply;<BR>
units with off table support units represented are at 75% supply;<BR>
units with no miniature representation of support units are at 50%<BR>
supply.<BR>
Rebel artillery battery is stockpiled and at 200% supply.<BR>
Secret Police Platoon is at 100% supply.<BR>
All personnel to be fed according to BBQ SOP.<BR>
Webvan to supply supplementary cranberry juice rations per CPT Martin's<BR>
request.<BR>
Comfortable civilian quarters available for all personnel.<BR>
TL 5 reinforcements provided by CPT Martin.<BR>
<BR>
COMMAND & CONTROL:<BR>
Due to strong air defense possessed by both sides, no unit may fly in<BR>
high mode.<BR>
Loyalist forces start within 10 cm of river on north edge of table;<BR>
Loyalist forces set up first; Loyalist forces are first player.<BR>
Rebel forces start within 50 cm of south edge of table.<BR>
Radio silence is not in effect.<BR>
Attack will start NLT: 11:30Z, 30 September 2000<BR>
CommandInterWeb requests should be directed to:<BR>
	travellerne@3rd-imperium.com<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------62ECF0D17C5D34B7DA28F8A9--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 12:43:53 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
<BR>
Tage Borg Writes:<BR>
>If this subject has been brought up before, please ignore me.<BR>
><BR>
>I have started writing a small VB program for character generation with the<BR>
>T4 rules. The program now rolls for character attributes, some homeworld<BR>
>attributes and character background skills.<BR>
><BR>
>Ever now an then a character gets computer-2 or grav craft-2. almost every<BR>
>character gets equestrian-1 or more, though. How common are horses in<BR>
>milieu-0? More common than computers? I know the T4 rules are considered<BR>
>broken, but this obsession with horses is ridiculous.<BR>
><BR>
>The reason for all of this is that for a new character you roll four times<BR>
>for background skills. Fist 1D for background skill type, where 5 or higher<BR>
>gives high tech skills. After that another D6 is rolled to see what high<BR>
>tech skill is recieved. On a roll of 6 or higher the character gets<BR>
>Equestrian. That is OK with me. But there ar DM:s for both rolls. SOC < 6,<BR>
>homeworld TL < 6 and homeworld LawLevel < 6 adds a negative one each. SOC ><BR>
>7, TL > 7 and LawLevel > 7 all add one. With a total of just +1 on each of<BR>
>the two rolls, chances are high that the character will talk to horses.<BR>
>Equestrian-4 is not uncommon even for characters from vacuum worlds! Whats<BR>
>up with this? Any suggestions for alterations? Should I replace equestrian<BR>
>with Administration or some other skill?<BR>
><BR>
>Perhaps I should wait for T5 or for my copy of the CT reprints to arrive.<BR>
><BR>
>     /Tage<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
First, I'd like to state that I've pretty much sworn off T4. It's a good <BR>
game, but I like CT's stability and (IMO) better combat system.<BR>
<BR>
When I was considering playing T4, however, this is a problem that I <BR>
disliked throughly. My solution: Don't apply *any* DMs to the second die <BR>
roll for each skill.<BR>
<BR>
Also, I think that the homeworld generation should be fixed in that <BR>
hydrographics should be based on atmosphere, not size. This would minimize <BR>
Vacuum Water Worlds. ;)<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:18:23 +0200<BR>
From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se><BR>
Subject: Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
<BR>
> > milieu-0? More common than computers? I know the T4 rules are considered<BR>
> > broken, but this obsession with horses is ridiculous.<BR>
><BR>
> >From looking at the modifiers, I suspect that the availability of<BR>
> Equestrian on the Background Skills table is intended to reflect riding<BR>
> horses (or other animals, such as the poni) as a leisure activity for<BR>
> the well-to-do, rather than as a routine means of transportation.<BR>
<BR>
Even so, I though it a bit too much. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
> > The reason for all of this is that for a new character you roll four<BR>
times<BR>
> > for background skills. Fist 1D for background skill type, where 5 or<BR>
higher<BR>
> > gives high tech skills. After that another D6 is rolled to see what high<BR>
> > tech skill is recieved. On a roll of 6 or higher the character gets<BR>
> > Equestrian. That is OK with me. But there ar DM:s for both rolls. SOC <<BR>
6,<BR>
> > homeworld TL < 6 and homeworld LawLevel < 6 adds a negative one each.<BR>
SOC ><BR>
> > 7, TL > 7 and LawLevel > 7 all add one. With a total of just +1 on each<BR>
of<BR>
> > the two rolls, chances are high that the character will talk to horses.<BR>
> > Equestrian-4 is not uncommon even for characters from vacuum worlds!<BR>
Whats<BR>
> > up with this? Any suggestions for alterations? Should I replace<BR>
equestrian<BR>
> > with Administration or some other skill?<BR>
><BR>
> Well, you could have your program re-roll any background skills over<BR>
> level 1.  That would reflect the notion that background skills should be<BR>
> broad, rather than deep.  Using this fix, many characters would have<BR>
> Equestrian-1, but you would avoid the oddity of some poor character<BR>
> having Equestrian-3 at the expense of other, more useful skills.<BR>
<BR>
A very good idea.<BR>
<BR>
> Alternately, you could rearrange the High Tech Skills table as follows:<BR>
><BR>
> 1.  Mechanics<BR>
> 2.  Ground Craft<BR>
> 3.  Computer<BR>
> 4.  Language<BR>
> 5.  Equestrian<BR>
> 6.  Business<BR>
><BR>
> This would still keep Equestrian as mostly an upper-class activity,<BR>
> while eliminating the "ceiling effect" (rolls maxing out at 6) that<BR>
> gives a disproportionate Equestrian result on the unmodified table.<BR>
<BR>
I concluded that real upper-class Imperials would think business to be<BR>
"below them", which is why I though more of replacing Equestrian with<BR>
Administration than changing the order of skils in the table. Though I can't<BR>
figure out how riding could be more relevant than business...<BR>
<BR>
    /Tage<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:20:28 +0200<BR>
From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se><BR>
Subject: Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
<BR>
[problems with background skill tables]<BR>
<BR>
> First, I'd like to state that I've pretty much sworn off T4. It's a good<BR>
> game, but I like CT's stability and (IMO) better combat system.<BR>
><BR>
> When I was considering playing T4, however, this is a problem that I<BR>
> disliked throughly. My solution: Don't apply *any* DMs to the second die<BR>
> roll for each skill.<BR>
<BR>
Seems very reasonable.<BR>
<BR>
> Also, I think that the homeworld generation should be fixed in that<BR>
> hydrographics should be based on atmosphere, not size. This would minimize<BR>
> Vacuum Water Worlds. ;)<BR>
<BR>
Hmmm. My impression that T4 really is as buggy as I've heard is being<BR>
reinforced ;-) I just bought the books, haven't actually played it myself<BR>
yet.<BR>
<BR>
    /Tage<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 17:21:52 -0400<BR>
From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
Subject: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play<BR>
<BR>
Downport.com today announces the addition of a professionally produced radio<BR>
play to our web site. Submitted by Jon Woodland and available at<BR>
http://www.downport.com/radio, the play was produced in-studio in 1988 and<BR>
is based on a CT campaign from the mid-eighties. Jon would appreciate<BR>
hearing any and all comments about the play, from audio quality to content<BR>
interest. His email address is available on the site. On list discussion is<BR>
encouraged as well.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, if any of you filkers would like to do MP3s of your favorites,<BR>
Downport.com would be happy to host such creations. Consider that a<BR>
challenge if you like ;-)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 17:22:09 -0400<BR>
From: "Jonathan 'Caraig' McDermott" <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3133<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 18:16:26 -0500<BR>
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
>Subject: Re: TNE Heresy?<BR>
<snip><BR>
>It struck me as being an excellent idea, but are you sure it was in that <BR>
>order?  From memory, I thought it was STR AGL CON INT EDU CHR -- PSI -- SOC<BR>
><BR>
>Eris<BR>
<BR>
My bad, you're right -- I'd originally missed that TNE renamed Dex and End <BR>
to AGL and CON.  Thanks for pointing that out!<BR>
<BR>
Cheers!<BR>
- ---<BR>
==============================================================<BR>
Jonathan McDermott, CNE/MCSE       NOSPAMcaraig@mindspring.com<BR>
System Administrator         http:\\caraig.home.mindspring.com<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
       Anubis@SpatialWastes -*- Caraig,Dermott@FurryMUCK<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Current PGPKey Fingerprint (18 July 2000)<BR>
       E20D 4E41 533E AAD0 60B8  66DD 2908 F6E4 923F C225<BR>
Public Key: http://www.waypointcentral.net/Team/Jonathan/Keys/<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
           "As above, so below; as below, so above."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 01:30:15 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
<BR>
D Smart wrote:<BR>
> Maybe not for general maneuvering but wouldn't such accuracy<BR>
> be<BR>
> desireable when using a spinal mount for planetary<BR>
> bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
Why? It's much more fun without...   *grin*<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3134<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3135</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, October 9 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3135<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Horse nomenclature<BR>
Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
RE: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
Re: Interesting Trav Item<BR>
Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play<BR>
Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
[www] 09 Oct 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>
Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
RE: Jump speed<BR>
RE: Rolling ships<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 16:51:50 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
> > Probably not the worst song to have to play, but it's approaching it.<BR>
><BR>
> "Temple of Love" by the Sisters of Mercy would probably be worse. Listen<BR>
> closely to the bassline some time...  :-)<BR>
<BR>
The whole _Floodland_ album is actually designed as a bass lesson/<BR>
exercise. You can play along with "Dominion/Mother Russia" on one<BR>
string, take a break during "Flood I", practice playing on two strings<BR>
during "Lucretia", take another break during "1959", play "This<BR>
Corrosion" on three strings...<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell "Explain the huge overlap of TMLers and Sisters of Mercy fans to<BR>
me" B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:15:00 -0500<BR>
From: D Smart <dsmart@imagin.net><BR>
Subject: Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
<BR>
Tage Borg posted:<BR>
> <BR>
> If this subject has been brought up before, please ignore me.<BR>
> <BR>
> I have started writing a small VB program for character generation with the<BR>
> T4 rules. The program now rolls for character attributes, some homeworld<BR>
> attributes and character background skills.<BR>
> <BR>
> Ever now an then a character gets computer-2 or grav craft-2. almost every<BR>
> character gets equestrian-1 or more, though. How common are horses in<BR>
> milieu-0? More common than computers? I know the T4 rules are considered<BR>
> broken, but this obsession with horses is ridiculous.<BR>
<BR>
It's not "horses", per se. Equestrian is meant to signify<BR>
a familiarity with riding animals/lifeforms as a mode of<BR>
transportation.<BR>
<BR>
At TL8-, this is a rather common skill, IMO. At TL11+, this<BR>
may actually be a rare or even unheard of, skill (as in<BR>
using an axe as a weapon in Larry Niven's "Ringworld").<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:42:01 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> -Russell "Explain the huge overlap of TMLers and Sisters of Mercy fans to<BR>
> me" B<BR>
<BR>
If there's such an overlap, why are there no posted filks to Sisters of<BR>
Mercy songs? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Give me Warren Zevon any day....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 17:46:22 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Horse nomenclature<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 22:35:59 -0700<BR>
> From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
> <BR>
> > I know about a horse with no name someone rode out of (or into?)<BR>
> > a desert on.<BR>
> > (two stars: name the band)<BR>
> <BR>
> America. I will never be able to forget that song; I was subjected to it<BR>
> on a regular basis for an entire Summer once. A very unpleasant<BR>
> flashback. <BR>
<BR>
I like Dave Barry's comment on this song:  "You're in the desert.  For<BR>
days.  With nothing else to do.  Name the f*cking horse!"<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 20:04:05 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
<BR>
D Smart wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Tage Borg posted:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > If this subject has been brought up before, please ignore me.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I have started writing a small VB program for character generation with the<BR>
> > T4 rules. The program now rolls for character attributes, some homeworld<BR>
> > attributes and character background skills.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Ever now an then a character gets computer-2 or grav craft-2. almost every<BR>
> > character gets equestrian-1 or more, though. How common are horses in<BR>
> > milieu-0? More common than computers? I know the T4 rules are considered<BR>
> > broken, but this obsession with horses is ridiculous.<BR>
> <BR>
> It's not "horses", per se. Equestrian is meant to signify<BR>
> a familiarity with riding animals/lifeforms as a mode of<BR>
> transportation.<BR>
> <BR>
> At TL8-, this is a rather common skill, IMO. At TL11+, this<BR>
> may actually be a rare or even unheard of, skill (as in<BR>
> using an axe as a weapon in Larry Niven's "Ringworld").<BR>
<BR>
The problem is that, in T4's Background Skills rules, Equestrian is a<BR>
_High_-Tech skill, most common among characters of high Social Standing<BR>
from High tech worlds (based on the die modifiers to receive this<BR>
skill).  Presumably, those characters who receive Equestrian as a<BR>
background skill have spent their youths hunting the fox-analogue from<BR>
horseback/poniback.<BR>
<BR>
Note that Equestrian is not listed as a Low-Tech background skill in T4.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:01:53 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Trav-Trek crossover<BR>
<BR>
I know this is a late reply, but the opportunity was too good to<BR>
pass up.<BR>
<BR>
Paul Harris wrote:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>I am thinking of having an adventure that is a form of 'dimensional<BR>
>crossover', where the command crew of a traveller warship meet up with a<BR>
>'Trek' starship. I was thinking of getting them into conflict with each<BR>
>other, but any way I looked at it, the 'Trek' ship would paste the<BR>
>traveller ship.<BR>
>Any suggestions on what advantages a trav ship might have?<BR>
<BR>
Traveller ships have two advantages over 'Trek'.<BR>
<BR>
1. Detection range: Traveller ships will detect 'Trek' starships first,<BR>
because for some reason all Trek ships are lit up like christmas trees.<BR>
They also emit phenomenal amounts across the em spectrum from using<BR>
active sensors, electromagnetic shields, and by using matter/anti-matter<BR>
annihalation as a power source.<BR>
<BR>
Not to mention that if some poor blind soul should happen to miss all this<BR>
gratuitous display, the captain of the Trek ship is sure to "establish<BR>
hailing frequencies" before opening fire, and talk at them for 5 minutes<BR>
just to establish their high moral superiority to the occupants of the<BR>
Traveller ship.<BR>
<BR>
2. Firing range: Traveller ships have longer firing ranges than Trek ships.<BR>
They think nothing at all of firing at ranges of hundreds of thousands of<BR>
kilometers, where the targeting solutions have to take into account<BR>
speed-of-light delays. However, despite the stated range of their weopons<BR>
Trek starships always engage at a range of (at most) a few km, so that<BR>
both vessels will fit neatly within their 5:3 ratio viewscreens<BR>
(except for the up-rated cinema & DVD variants).<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
Graeme<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
######################################################################<BR>
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This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the <BR>
intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. <BR>
Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.<BR>
######################################################################<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 18:08:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
<BR>
At 05:46 PM 10/8/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I like Dave Barry's comment on this song:  "You're in the desert.  For<BR>
>days.  With nothing else to do.  Name the f*cking horse!"<BR>
<BR>
Craig, it was obvious that the rider was a marketing executive.. he was<BR>
waiting to hear back from the focus group.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:31:01 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Interesting Trav Item<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Paul wrote:<BR>
>Issues 1 and then 2 of Imperial Lines were actually published. Issue 3 & 4<BR>
>(a combined issue) was ready for publication (I have a proof copy), but<BR>
>never actually printed.<BR>
<BR>
I never received my copy of #2! Ripped off or what!! (Is it any good??)<BR>
<BR>
Who owns the reprint/web rights? Marc, would you allow it to go up on the web?<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:42:09 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Doug expounded:<BR>
>Traveller.  Traveller smells good, tastes good, and leaves a great shine<BR>
>with no waxy build up!<BR>
[snip]<BR>
>Traveller.  It's even fun to say the word.<BR>
>TravellerTravellerTravellerTravellerTraveller.<BR>
<BR>
Now we finally know why Doug hosts the Silly Era. He's the mug _responsible_ for<BR>
most of it!!<BR>
<BR>
;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 19:50:11 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play<BR>
<BR>
on 10/8/00 2:21 PM, SwordWorlder at SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Downport.com today announces the addition of a professionally produced radio<BR>
> play to our web site. Submitted by Jon Woodland and available at<BR>
> http://www.downport.com/radio, the play was produced in-studio in 1988 and<BR>
> is based on a CT campaign from the mid-eighties. Jon would appreciate<BR>
> hearing any and all comments about the play, from audio quality to content<BR>
> interest. His email address is available on the site. On list discussion is<BR>
> encouraged as well.<BR>
> <BR>
> BTW, if any of you filkers would like to do MP3s of your favorites,<BR>
> Downport.com would be happy to host such creations. Consider that a<BR>
> challenge if you like ;-)<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Just started listening.  Great stuff.  I've converted the files to quicktime<BR>
format for Macintosh users, if you're interested.<BR>
<BR>
Tod <BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:12:26 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
<BR>
On 10/08/00 at 08:04 PM,  John Groth <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> > Ever now an then a character gets computer-2 or grav craft-2. almost every<BR>
>> > character gets equestrian-1 or more, though. How common are horses in<BR>
>> > milieu-0? More common than computers? I know the T4 rules are considered<BR>
>> > broken, but this obsession with horses is ridiculous.<BR>
<BR>
>> It's not "horses", per se. Equestrian is meant to signify<BR>
>> a familiarity with riding animals/lifeforms as a mode of<BR>
>> transportation.<BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that PC's are your normal run of the mill citizens of<BR>
the Imperium.  They are Travellers who will often find themselves on<BR>
worlds where riding a horse-analog will come in handy, so having<BR>
Equestrian 1 or 2 isn't a bad thing.<BR>
 <BR>
>> At TL8-, this is a rather common skill, IMO. At TL11+, this<BR>
>> may actually be a rare or even unheard of, skill (as in<BR>
>> using an axe as a weapon in Larry Niven's "Ringworld").<BR>
<BR>
Yep. However, I doubt that "axe as weapon" will be a major stretch<BR>
of imagination for anyone at any tech level where hand to hand<BR>
combat is imaginable..."Hum, heavy, sharp!  Makes good club!"  <g><BR>
<BR>
>The problem is that, in T4's Background Skills rules, Equestrian is<BR>
>a _High_-Tech skill, most common among characters of high Social<BR>
>Standing from High tech worlds (based on the die modifiers to<BR>
>receive this skill).  Presumably, those characters who receive<BR>
>Equestrian as a background skill have spent their youths hunting<BR>
>the fox-analogue from horseback/poniback.<BR>
<BR>
>Note that Equestrian is not listed as a Low-Tech background skill<BR>
>in T4.<BR>
<BR>
Correct, and that *is* a problem...IMO.  At Mid and High tech<BR>
Equestrian should be a rare high SOC dependent skill.  At Low tech<BR>
it should be common across all classes.<BR>
<BR>
How about coming up with a more reasonable process for and set of<BR>
background skills instead of just saying the rules are broken?<BR>
<BR>
That's the sort of thing I love so I'd be happy to help.  I must<BR>
admit, more than gearheading, more than system generating, I love to<BR>
rules monger.  <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:27:36 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
<BR>
On 10/08/00 at 05:46 PM,  Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 22:35:59 -0700<BR>
>> From: Luther Martin <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
>> <BR>
>> > I know about a horse with no name someone rode out of (or into?)<BR>
>> > a desert on.<BR>
>> > (two stars: name the band)<BR>
>> <BR>
>> America. I will never be able to forget that song; I was subjected to it<BR>
>> on a regular basis for an entire Summer once. A very unpleasant<BR>
>> flashback. <BR>
<BR>
>I like Dave Barry's comment on this song:  "You're in the desert. <BR>
>For days.  With nothing else to do.  Name the f*cking horse!"<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, and what were you doing out there in the desert for days on<BR>
your horse for anyway?  And what's the line in that song "Feels good<BR>
to get out of the rain" all about if it's a blooming desert?<BR>
<BR>
And finally...why name a horse?  It's just my Horse, your Horse, ten<BR>
Horses in the barn, Does having a name mean anything to the bloody<BR>
horse?<BR>
<BR>
Now does that adequately cover the subject of horses with no name?<BR>
<g><BR>
<BR>
Eris,<BR>
 and yeah, I figure the song was really about shooting heroin while<BR>
 the band was dinking around in Arizona or maybe Palm Springs, but<BR>
 that's a downer.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:32:37 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: [www] 09 Oct 2000 - Freelance Traveller Updated<BR>
<BR>
Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller Resource has<BR>
posted its most recent update to http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and<BR>
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.htm.  <BR>
<BR>
This update features:<BR>
<BR>
 - Fred Ramen brings us chapters three and four of The Hostile Stars, his<BR>
   continuing serial story set during the Fifth Frontier War. You can read<BR>
   it in Raconteur's Rest. <BR>
<BR>
 - Some new Traveller software is listed in the Linux section of the<BR>
   Computer Connection. <BR>
<BR>
 - The Published Products lists in the FAQ have been updated. Find them in<BR>
   the Information Center.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at Freelance<BR>
Traveller.  Please write to freelancetraveller@yahoo.com with any and all<BR>
of them, as we are in the process of reconfiguring the forms, and they may<BR>
be temporarily disabled.  Freelance Traveller depends on the good will of<BR>
Traveller fans both to visit our site and justify our existence, and to<BR>
write for us, making our existence possible.<BR>
<BR>
Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.<BR>
<BR>
Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation to The<BR>
Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to Executive Network<BR>
Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com) for hosting services. Without<BR>
organizations willing to cooperate with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing<BR>
needs, we would be unable to bring you the articles and other resources<BR>
that have made Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on<BR>
the 'net.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 22:38:13 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: equestrian in T4<BR>
<BR>
On 10/08/00 at 10:12 PM,  eris@pcola.gulf.net said:<BR>
<BR>
>On 10/08/00 at 08:04 PM,  John Groth <wombat@premier.net> said:<BR>
<BR>
>>> > Ever now an then a character gets computer-2 or grav craft-2. almost every<BR>
>>> > character gets equestrian-1 or more, though. How common are horses in<BR>
>>> > milieu-0? More common than computers? I know the T4 rules are considered<BR>
>>> > broken, but this obsession with horses is ridiculous.<BR>
<BR>
>>> It's not "horses", per se. Equestrian is meant to signify<BR>
>>> a familiarity with riding animals/lifeforms as a mode of<BR>
>>> transportation.<BR>
<BR>
>Keep in mind that PC's are your normal run of the mill citizens of<BR>
>the Imperium.  They are Travellers who will often find themselves<BR>
>on worlds where riding a horse-analog will come in handy, so having<BR>
>Equestrian 1 or 2 isn't a bad thing.<BR>
<BR>
Grumble, even posts about Traveller have errata! <g><BR>
<BR>
...Pc's are NOT your normal...<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:51:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>> Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
>> > Probably not the worst song to have to play, but it's approaching it.<BR>
>><BR>
>> "Temple of Love" by the Sisters of Mercy would probably be worse. Listen<BR>
>> closely to the bassline some time...  :-)<BR>
><BR>
> The whole _Floodland_ album is actually designed as a bass lesson/<BR>
> exercise. You can play along with "Dominion/Mother Russia" on one<BR>
> string, take a break during "Flood I", practice playing on two strings<BR>
> during "Lucretia", take another break during "1959", play "This<BR>
> Corrosion" on three strings...<BR>
><BR>
> -Russell "Explain the huge overlap of TMLers and Sisters of Mercy fans to<BR>
> me" B<BR>
<BR>
Who or what are "Sisters of Mercy"?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:52:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Manned ships need high rates of change more than they need pointing<BR>
>> accuracy. Thus I don't see wheels or magnetic solutions as viable<BR>
>> for Traveller ships.<BR>
><BR>
> Maybe not for general maneuvering but wouldn't such accuracy be<BR>
> desireable when using a spinal mount for planetary bombardment?<BR>
<BR>
It's hard to get that kind of accuracy when firing thru an atmosphere. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:57:11 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>>> Ya know - every time I think about the Rebellion I get more and more<BR>
>>> committed to the cause of Brzk - the only true pansophontist leader. <BR>
>>> Hail Brzk!<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Ah. So you're a Brzker? :-)<BR>
><BR>
> Nah.  They're his Huscarles!<BR>
<BR>
Sounds like "good life" to me.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:27:20 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Paul wrote:<BR>
>So what's 'Jump Masking' then?<BR>
<BR>
More 2D jumpspace stuff. If your target world is on the far side of a star, you<BR>
can't jump to its j-point, even if unmasked. Your vector must skim the<BR>
intervening star's 100D limit, and thus be (at worst) 100 solar diameters from<BR>
the planet.<BR>
<BR>
Bad ASCII art follows:<BR>
<BR>
- ----jump vector------------------+<BR>
                 __              |<BR>
                /  \             V<BR>
               |    |            O  <---planet's 100D limit<BR>
                \__/ <---star's 100D limit<BR>
<BR>
Hopefully this gives you can get the idea - the vector is meant to be just<BR>
skimming the star, but I can't draw that. ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:27:49 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: RE: Rolling ships<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Matt said:<BR>
> Then consider trying to dock fighters  that  return  for  reloads<BR>
> mid-fight, and look where the fighter bays  are  located  on  the<BR>
> Tigress, etc.  If large ships  rolled  during  combat  then  they<BR>
><BR>
>It isn't that difficult to dock with a rolling target... Remember Elite?<BR>
<BR>
Alternatively, consider that a space combat turn is 20 mins, then do what<BR>
aircraft carriers do - when planes need to land, turn into the wind and<BR>
accelerate to flank speed. That is, when fighters need to dock, stop rolling!<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 23:35:04 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
On 10/08/00 at 08:51 PM,  shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) said:<BR>
<BR>
>>> "Temple of Love" by the Sisters of Mercy would probably be worse. Listen<BR>
>>> closely to the bassline some time...  :-)<BR>
<BR>
>> The whole _Floodland_ album is actually designed as a bass lesson/<BR>
>> exercise. You can play along with "Dominion/Mother Russia" on one<BR>
>> string, take a break during "Flood I", practice playing on two strings<BR>
>> during "Lucretia", take another break during "1959", play "This<BR>
>> Corrosion" on three strings...<BR>
<BR>
>> -Russell "Explain the huge overlap of TMLers and Sisters of Mercy fans to<BR>
>> me" B<BR>
<BR>
>Who or what are "Sisters of Mercy"?<BR>
<BR>
Goth! I really don't know. <BR>
<BR>
Leonard, you and I are showing our age. <g><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:33:11 -0700<BR>
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
 <eris@pcola.gulf.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Who or what are "Sisters of Mercy"?<BR>
><BR>
> Goth! I really don't know.<BR>
><BR>
> Leonard, you and I are showing our age. <g><BR>
><BR>
Moreso than you probably imagine!  The Sisters of Mercy were a<BR>
Goth/alternative band that had a couple of minor hits (airplay on MTV's "120<BR>
Minutes," at least) from the aforementioned "Floodland" album sometime in<BR>
the mid-late 80s.  I wasn't a fan even then, and therefore can't give any<BR>
more details (i.e. whether or not the band is still together, possible<BR>
members-in-common with other bands, etc.), and, to be honest, I'd pretty<BR>
much forgotten all about them until now.<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 01:18:50 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
>Who or what are "Sisters of Mercy"?<BR>
<BR>
An English band, formed in Leeds in the early '80s, or maybe late '70s. The<BR>
band was a major factor in the birth and growth of the "dark and black<BR>
movement" known in different times and places by different names (most<BR>
recently "goth"). The lead singer and center of the band is Andrew Eldritch,<BR>
the rest of the line-up (with the exception of the Doktor Avalanche, the<BR>
drum machine) has changed over time. They made a much bigger splash in their<BR>
home country than in America.<BR>
<BR>
Sisters songs are generally characterized by Eldritch's deep voice, the<BR>
heavy reliance on bass, and lyrics which usually contain a warped sense of<BR>
golden age nostalgia, a twisted love of military imagery,<BR>
angsty-relationship stuff and very witty (but extremely obscure) puns built<BR>
off of pop-songs. Some might argue that the best Sisters songs combine two<BR>
or more of the above elements.<BR>
<BR>
If, in the last two decades or so, you've ever set foot inside a club which<BR>
claims to play any sort of gothy, dark music and have stayed for more than<BR>
an hour, you've almost certainly heard the them. In fact, given various DJs'<BR>
proclivities to play certain songs, if you've met the above criteria, you've<BR>
probably heard either "This Corrosion" or "Temple of Love".<BR>
<BR>
All in all, thoroughly entertaining... well, if you're into that sort of<BR>
thing.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3135<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, October 9 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3136<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
RE: Jump speed<BR>
The Trigan Empire<BR>
RE: Basslines<BR>
RE: MT/TNE FF&S fluke<BR>
RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>
Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>
dateline Mongo:  Bandits and deserters killed and captured<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Imperial Lines - CD<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: OT:Basslines<BR>
RE: MT/TNE FF&S fluke<BR>
RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: OT:Basslines<BR>
Re: OT:Basslines<BR>
T5<BR>
Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
Re: Is G:T useful as background material?<BR>
Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR>
Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
Oh...<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 01:20:58 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
From Eris' post:<BR>
<BR>
>>Who or what are "Sisters of Mercy"?<BR>
><BR>
>Goth! I really don't know.<BR>
<BR>
Was "goth" an intentional or unintentional error there? If it was<BR>
unintentional, it's downright uncanny. If it was intentional, it offered me<BR>
a bit of amusement. :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:18:50 +1100 <BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: RE: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
> [mailto:david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au]<BR>
> Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 3:27 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Jump speed<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> Paul wrote:<BR>
> >So what's 'Jump Masking' then?<BR>
> <BR>
> More 2D jumpspace stuff. If your target world is on the far <BR>
> side of a star, you<BR>
> can't jump to its j-point, even if unmasked. Your vector must skim the<BR>
> intervening star's 100D limit, and thus be (at worst) 100 <BR>
> solar diameters from<BR>
> the planet.<BR>
> <BR>
> Bad ASCII art follows:<BR>
> <BR>
> ----jump vector------------------+<BR>
>                  __              |<BR>
>                 /  \             V<BR>
>                |    |            O  <---planet's 100D limit<BR>
>                 \__/ <---star's 100D limit<BR>
> <BR>
> Hopefully this gives you can get the idea - the vector is <BR>
> meant to be just<BR>
> skimming the star, but I can't draw that. ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
??????? <penny drops> Oh my God!!!...... the Oort cloud... other<BR>
planets.... moons of other planets.... random asteroids..... binary star<BR>
systems....brown dwarfs... what does the chance of actually getting to<BR>
the world you want become???<BR>
<BR>
<player perspective> Who came up with this idea then? Shoot them.... at<BR>
once!<BR>
<referee perspective> Hmmmm....this is very interesting.... with this I<BR>
could.....<much evil scheming follows><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:26:57 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
For those interested, I found some Trigan Empire links on the Web (I didn't<BR>
think it was out there - helps when you spell it correctly). Here's a couple of<BR>
them:<BR>
<BR>
"The Trigan Empire - The staple adventure strip from Look And Learn"<BR>
     http://www.whom.co.uk/chairs/trigan.htm<BR>
<BR>
"Heroes of the Spaceways" - select "Trigan Empire" from the control panel<BR>
     http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/2585/index.html<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:35:45 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Yeah - but it is cool anyways! ;)<BR>
<BR>
I explain it as this:<BR>
<BR>
1) Sisters is cool<BR>
2) Intellegent people realise this<BR>
3) The TML is made up of intellegent people.<BR>
<BR>
*hey, it works*<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
<BR>
Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
> > Probably not the worst song to have to play, but it's approaching it.<BR>
><BR>
> "Temple of Love" by the Sisters of Mercy would probably be worse. Listen<BR>
> closely to the bassline some time...  :-)<BR>
<BR>
The whole _Floodland_ album is actually designed as a bass lesson/<BR>
exercise. You can play along with "Dominion/Mother Russia" on one<BR>
string, take a break during "Flood I", practice playing on two strings<BR>
during "Lucretia", take another break during "1959", play "This<BR>
Corrosion" on three strings...<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell "Explain the huge overlap of TMLers and Sisters of Mercy fans to<BR>
me" B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:39:59 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: MT/TNE FF&S fluke<BR>
<BR>
Accually, one of the powerplant options (cold fusion IIRC) takes care of<BR>
that. They suck down the fuel like the old plants.<BR>
<BR>
(I designed a lot of CT ships with FFS - I like it. It was cool. Then I got<BR>
a job....)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Gerry Harris<BR>
Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 4:57 AM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: MT/TNE FF&S fluke<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I was just reading through FF&S (I've been doing that a lot since<BR>
joining this list) and I think I've discovered a fluke.<BR>
<BR>
If one were to design MT or CT ships using the Thruster Plate rules in<BR>
FF&S, one comes across an interesting situation.  FF&S fusion power<BR>
plants use *very* little fuel (kl/year as opposed to MT's kl/hour).<BR>
One could effectively design a vessel with unlimited "delta-v" (I use<BR>
the term loosely, for obvious reasons).  System Defense Boats could<BR>
operate for years without refuelling, and could devote oodles more room<BR>
to weapons and defenses.  Fighters can carry larger weapons, making<BR>
them an even bigger threat to capital ships (TNE small craft could,<BR>
under the right circumstances, be "ship killers" even before this<BR>
fluke).  And missiles, well, they've just been accorded unlimited<BR>
endurance.<BR>
<BR>
This would make for a very "cinematic" space-operaish kind of campaign,<BR>
with characters never having to worry about the state of their fuel<BR>
supply.  Bingo would just be something played by little old ladies at<BR>
church on Saturday night.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
******************<BR>
Fther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
Soldier's Companion <BR>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
******************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act<BR>
3, Scene 1<BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
******************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:45:14 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rolling ships (was: Armor Distribution on Starships)<BR>
<BR>
Rubber walls.<BR>
<BR>
:)<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
No, if you do it that way, you'll get swatted by one of the bulkheads<BR>
or the decks. Because even though you made it thru the harch, the ship<BR>
will be moving *sideways* with respect to you.<BR>
<BR>
Think of it as being like trying to hop into a boxcar as the train goes<BR>
roaring by the platform at 60 mph. If you jump at the right time,<BR>
you'll go thru the open door just fine. And then slam into the back<BR>
wall of the car at 60 mph, or skid across the floor of the car at 60mph<BR>
and then slam into the back wall with your remaining velocity. <BR>
<BR>
In either case.... <ouch!><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:55:57 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 18:08:20<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> At 05:46 PM 10/8/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >I like Dave Barry's comment on this song:  "You're in the desert.  For<BR>
> >days.  With nothing else to do.  Name the f*cking horse!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Craig, it was obvious that the rider was a marketing executive.. he was<BR>
> waiting to hear back from the focus group.<BR>
<BR>
We toss around 'keyboard kill' a lot on this list, but that one actually<BR>
swear-to-god led to several drops of 7-up landing on my keyboard.  I<BR>
thought *I* was the one who had to deal with markteting execs...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 22:59:39 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:51:13 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> <BR>
> Who or what are "Sisters of Mercy"?<BR>
<BR>
One of the better Goth-ish groups, prone to gravelly singing about<BR>
depressing subjects.  Their "Corrosion" is one of my fave club dance<BR>
songs.  Now, for 5 bonus trivia guru points, everyone:  Where did they get<BR>
their name?<BR>
<BR>
P.S. - Yes, I've been a Goth on occasion.  But thank god there are no<BR>
       pictures. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:16:30 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Minion class grav armored fighting vehicle family<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
<BR>
>A question:  what kind of power plant are you using?  Fusion?  Is it the<BR>
same size for each<BR>
>model?<BR>
<BR>
Fusion; size varies per model.  I did all design work on Excel.  None of the<BR>
Minion class uses a scale efficient power plant.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:16:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: dateline Mongo:  Bandits and deserters killed and captured<BR>
<BR>
Mingo City, Mongo/Jewell, 134-1112 (TNS):  In a brief and violent action<BR>
south of the Perfumed River today, armored elements of the Mongo Defense<BR>
Force killed and captured several bandits and deserters and destroyed a<BR>
self-propelled artillery vehicle, an official Government of Mongo press<BR>
release reported.<BR>
<BR>
The action began at approximately local noon.  A large and well-armed group<BR>
of bandits and deserters, who had at some time captured one or more MDF<BR>
vehicles for use in criminal operations, was detected south of the Perfumed<BR>
River.  The area of action was reported to be in the general vicinity of<BR>
Ming's Magnificent Mulberry Gardens, where a small unit action took place<BR>
last month between government forces and criminal elements.<BR>
<BR>
Two MDF units responded quickly, sending several Myrmidon grav tanks and<BR>
Minion grav carriers at moderate altitude and high speed to surround the<BR>
bandits.  One of the bandits' self-propelled guns was destroyed immediately<BR>
by fire from the MDF tanks, and most of the bandits and deserters on foot<BR>
were quickly killed by the Myrmidons' secondary armament, automatic grenade<BR>
launchers and multiple-barreled automatic weapons.  A few lucky shots from<BR>
the self-propelled guns caused some damage to two MDF tanks.<BR>
<BR>
The remaining self-propelled gun, believed to be low on ammunition, slunk<BR>
off to the east into swampy, forested terrain under cover of a prismatic<BR>
aerosol.  The surviving bandits surrendered.  A large amount of stolen MDF<BR>
property, including artillery ammunition, electronics gear, and small arms,<BR>
was recovered from a bandit cache near the site of the battle.  The MDF<BR>
forces returned to the ruins of Myrmidon City, where they have established a<BR>
base, in good order.<BR>
<BR>
- -o-<BR>
<BR>
The Traveller News Service is an Imperium-wide benefit of membership in the<BR>
Travellers' Aid Society.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:39:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> One of the better Goth-ish groups, prone to gravelly singing about<BR>
> depressing subjects.  Their "Corrosion" is one of my fave club dance<BR>
> songs.  Now, for 5 bonus trivia guru points, everyone:  Where did they get<BR>
> their name?<BR>
<BR>
The Leonard Cohen song?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 04:54:22 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Imperial Lines - CD<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/8/00 4:46:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Re: Imperial Lines<BR>
>  <BR>
>  At 14:36 06.10.00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>  >Than again I guess it was just 4 issues (I just had one or two items for <BR>
#5 <BR>
> I<BR>
>  >guess, also on the CD, just not mentioned as such).<BR>
>  So, when is the next edition due? <BR>
<BR>
I was planning for next week, but it might be delayed till the end of the <BR>
month (my days off being mostly canceled).<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 05:02:45 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/8/00 10:33:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> - -Russell "Explain the huge overlap of TMLers and Sisters of Mercy fans to<BR>
>  me" B<BR>
<BR>
Works much better than a caffeine fix for me....... That and the Big <BR>
Pigs.....through in some Ice T, Doctor Dre (natural born killers) and I'm <BR>
ready to wipe out any party.......<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 05:09:10 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT:Basslines<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/8/00 10:33:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Goth! I really don't know. <BR>
>  <BR>
>  Leonard, you and I are showing our age.<BR>
<BR>
I'm about the same age and I know them, of course they are a bit old now <BR>
(Floodlands is at least 7 years old). Anyway Sisters of Mercy was started by <BR>
one of the former members of Bauhaus (and both would be considered Goth <BR>
groups).<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 02:25:37 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Gerry Harris <harrisgwjr@yahoo.com><BR>
Subject: RE: MT/TNE FF&S fluke<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, I've got two jobs, one of which will make me<BR>
incommunicado for two weeks, which is why I'll be unsubscribing here<BR>
shortly.<BR>
<BR>
I'll be back.<BR>
<BR>
- --- Tsykoduk <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com> wrote:<BR>
> Accually, one of the powerplant options (cold fusion IIRC) takes care<BR>
> of<BR>
> that. They suck down the fuel like the old plants.<BR>
> <BR>
> (I designed a lot of CT ships with FFS - I like it. It was cool. Then<BR>
> I got<BR>
> a job....)<BR>
> <BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Gerry Harris<BR>
> Sent: Saturday, October 07, 2000 4:57 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: MT/TNE FF&S fluke<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> I was just reading through FF&S (I've been doing that a lot since<BR>
> joining this list) and I think I've discovered a fluke.<BR>
> <BR>
> If one were to design MT or CT ships using the Thruster Plate rules<BR>
> in<BR>
> FF&S, one comes across an interesting situation.  FF&S fusion power<BR>
> plants use *very* little fuel (kl/year as opposed to MT's kl/hour).<BR>
> One could effectively design a vessel with unlimited "delta-v" (I use<BR>
> the term loosely, for obvious reasons).  System Defense Boats could<BR>
> operate for years without refuelling, and could devote oodles more<BR>
> room<BR>
> to weapons and defenses.  Fighters can carry larger weapons, making<BR>
> them an even bigger threat to capital ships (TNE small craft could,<BR>
> under the right circumstances, be "ship killers" even before this<BR>
> fluke).  And missiles, well, they've just been accorded unlimited<BR>
> endurance.<BR>
> <BR>
> This would make for a very "cinematic" space-operaish kind of<BR>
> campaign,<BR>
> with characters never having to worry about the state of their fuel<BR>
> supply.  Bingo would just be something played by little old ladies at<BR>
> church on Saturday night.<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> =====<BR>
> Gerry Harris<BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
> ******************<BR>
> Fther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com<BR>
> Soldier's Companion <BR>
><BR>
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
> ******************<BR>
> "Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius<BR>
> Caesar," Act<BR>
> 3, Scene 1<BR>
><BR>
****************************************************************************<BR>
> ******************<BR>
> <BR>
> __________________________________________________<BR>
> Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
> Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
> http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
Gerry Harris<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>
Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>
**********************************************************************************************<BR>
<BR>
__________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!<BR>
http://photos.yahoo.com/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:29:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote :<BR>
> > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> > Who or what are "Sisters of Mercy"?<BR>
><BR>
> One of the better Goth-ish groups, prone to gravelly singing about<BR>
> depressing subjects.  Their "Corrosion" is one of my fave club dance<BR>
> songs.  Now, for 5 bonus trivia guru points, everyone:  Where did they get<BR>
> their name?<BR>
<BR>
Isn't it obvous ?<BR>
<BR>
Considering the very boring and depressing nature of the songs, and the<BR>
deep, somewhat nasal and atonal, voice used by the singer, they're trying<BR>
very hard to be Leonard Cohen, and thus are named after Cohen's "Sisters of<BR>
Mercy"<BR>
<BR>
"Oh, the sisters of mercy they are not departed or gone<BR>
they were waiting for me when I thought that I could not go on...."<BR>
<BR>
which in itself is an oblique reference to the sort of thing that good<BR>
French-Canadian Catholics are not supposed to do. (I believe one of the<BR>
other commonly used terms for this practice is "visiting Mother Palmer and<BR>
her five daughters")<BR>
<BR>
Has anyone else actually managed to read any of Cohen's novels ?<BR>
<BR>
OTOH, he has some good lines, such as<BR>
<BR>
"I'm guided by a signal in the heavens<BR>
 I'm guided by the birth-mark on my skin<BR>
 I'm guuided by the beauty of our weapons..."<BR>
<BR>
from "First we take Manhattan"<BR>
<BR>
You can hang an entire Traveller campaign around those three lines.<BR>
<BR>
I don't whats more depressing, Leonard Cohen, or people pretending to be<BR>
Leonard Cohen...<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:10:13 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi><BR>
Subject: Re: OT:Basslines<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> In a message dated 10/8/00 10:33:40 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
> > Goth! I really don't know. <BR>
> >  Leonard, you and I are showing our age.<BR>
> I'm about the same age and I know them, of course they are a bit old now <BR>
> (Floodlands is at least 7 years old). Anyway Sisters of Mercy was started by <BR>
> one of the former members of Bauhaus (and both would be considered Goth <BR>
> groups).<BR>
<BR>
Well, I got the impression from interviews (and the concert I saw two<BR>
years ago) that Eldritch is not very happy to be classified as Goth.<BR>
<BR>
Don't know, I like the music, though. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----<BR>
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<---><BR>
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->><BR>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:08:14 +0100<BR>
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT:Basslines<BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry to contradict you, but the Sisters have nothing to do with<BR>
Bauhaus, and Floodland is an excellent 13! A couple of ex-Sisters went<BR>
on to perpetrate the Mission, though. Ew.<BR>
Regarding the basslines, the Sisters have always used a drum machine<BR>
(Doktor Avalanche), and it took over bassline duties some time ago. The<BR>
twiddly guitar bits on Temple of Love would still have to be played by<BR>
hand, though (no mean feat). <BR>
This technological slant and the Sisters social/weaponry lyrical<BR>
preoccupations may explain any overlap. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- - Rob.<BR>
<BR>
Kagehira@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm about the same age and I know them, of course they are a bit old now<BR>
> (Floodlands is at least 7 years old). Anyway Sisters of Mercy was started by<BR>
> one of the former members of Bauhaus (and both would be considered Goth<BR>
> groups).<BR>
> <BR>
> Bryan<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/   H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.<BR>
"Arthur bought the Apple anyway." - So Long & Thanks For All The Fish.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:32:08 +0100<BR>
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com><BR>
Subject: T5<BR>
<BR>
If tyhis is an annoying newbie question I'm very sorry, but I've looked<BR>
on the FAQ, and I can't find the list archive, so can I quietly ask<BR>
about Traveller 5? Is there a vague ETA on it and any indication of how<BR>
closely it will be tied to any particular mileu?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- - Rob.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Rob Myers - http://www.robmyers.org/   H2G2 - http://www.h2g2.com/<BR>
MacOS wonderfulness for The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy Game.<BR>
"Arthur bought the Apple anyway." - So Long & Thanks For All The Fish.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:51:54 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
<BR>
Curses! Now I have that darned song stuck in my head. Thanks, guys.<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:57:10 +0100 <BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Is G:T useful as background material?<BR>
<BR>
Yes. The G:T universe doesn't diverge from canon until the assassination of<BR>
Strephon, so everything prior to that can be considered as 'true'. <BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:03:32 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR>
<BR>
On 6 Oct 2000, at 13:07, Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>     Although I agree that such a resolution could have been possible,<BR>
> (Especially if Norris had recognized Strephon as the real emperor) by the<BR>
> time MT was done with the Imperium, it was dead.<BR>
<BR>
Even if Norris had done so, I doubt it would have done any good. The spinward <BR>
Marches were cut off from the rest of the Imperium and all Strephon's continued <BR>
participation would have done was get more of his followers killed.<BR>
<BR>
> TNE simply finished it off.<BR>
> Margaret in Survival Margin (The quote is an older one, I think, but I cannot<BR>
> remember where it first came from) notes that the 3I is viable only in economic<BR>
> terms. MT effectively limited interstellar trade to within the safe sphere of<BR>
> each faction. Even then, with the decimation of organized fleet offensives<BR>
> during the Hard Times, each faction had set into a mode of attrition/penetration<BR>
> commerce raids.<BR>
<BR>
Not only that, but as Dave Nilsen (IIRC) said the factions had been at each <BR>
others throats for almost fifteen years and had in that time demonized each <BR>
other to such an extent and killed so many people so callously that the rifts <BR>
were (arguably) too deep to be healed. Thus any 'victor' would've inhereited <BR>
nothing but 10,000 burnt out worlds and a hollow throne.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:03:32 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
<BR>
On 7 Oct 2000, at 13:49, Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Karen and Michael Hughes wrote:<BR>
> > Design, functionality, great mechanics or atmosphere. These are great ways to<BR>
> > assess an RPG. But what about smell? Come on campers, what's you most<BR>
> > favourite smelling RPG?<BR>
> <BR>
> "Kindred of the East" by White Wolf. In fact, that was the second thing<BR>
> I noticed when I got the book by mail (the first being the nice cover).<BR>
> It has a smell of rough, unfinished paper mixed with ink and a slight<BR>
> overtone of ancient, forgotten bookshelf.<BR>
> <BR>
> I think that White Wolf actually did this on purpose, because no other<BR>
> supplements (before or after KotE) smell the same way.<BR>
<BR>
I always liked the smell of the T2000 2dn ed stuff. I notice that the new D&D3 <BR>
Players' Handbook smells similar.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:03:32 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
<BR>
On 6 Oct 2000, at 11:55, Gerry Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Why not have the Rebellion play out much like the Civil War 500 years<BR>
> before.  Most of the battles will be fought in deep space, with little<BR>
> disruption of the Imperial bureaucracy and almost no disruption of the<BR>
> civilian economy (except the increased taxes each faction imposes to<BR>
> fund its bid for power).<BR>
<BR>
MT canon says otherwise, even before they decided to kill the Imperium and <BR>
bring out TNE. The Rebellion Sourcebook has quite a big section about the <BR>
methods used by various factions to gain control of the important High <BR>
Population worlds. This sort of behavoiur isn't the way to avoid disrupting the <BR>
civilian economy.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 08:15:25 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Oh...<BR>
<BR>
>An English band, formed in Leeds in the early '80s, or maybe late '70s. The<BR>
>band was a major factor in the birth and growth of the "dark and black<BR>
>movement" known in different times and places by different names (most<BR>
>recently "goth").<BR>
<BR>
Oh, so they are Brauhaus wannabes?<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3136<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3137</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, October 9 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3137<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
GR's Andromeda<BR>
RE: Attitude control<BR>
Will Doug rise to the challenge?<BR>
RE: Imperial membership on Balkanized worlds<BR>
Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
RE: Oh...<BR>
RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Is G:T useful as background material?<BR>
Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
RE: Plea for font help!<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
FWD: Re: Titan Games Preview for (10/8/00)<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Rebellion and near-C rocks<BR>
Re: T5<BR>
Re: GR's Andromeda<BR>
Not really RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Longbow II<BR>
Leonard Cohen<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
Oddballs<BR>
RE: Longbow II<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:04:18 -0400<BR>
From: Jonathan McDermott <caraig@mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: GR's Andromeda<BR>
<BR>
There really is a Trav reference here.  In the opening credits, they talk <BR>
about a Long Night, carrying a torch against the darkness, etc.  Kevin <BR>
Sorbo with delusions of being Norris? or worse, Cleon I? And what could be <BR>
more obvious than the interstellar navy being called the 'High Guard?'<BR>
<BR>
There are a few eerie references to other Trav staples, such as grav belts, <BR>
the Systems Commonwealth (Rule of Man or 3I?), and the post-Long Night or <BR>
Hard Times "feel" to things later on.<BR>
<BR>
So, was Gene Roddenberry a closet Trav player? =)<BR>
<BR>
In all, not a bad thing to watch, though unfortunately kinda chintzy.  I'd <BR>
been looking forward to seeing it, and I admit I was a little disappointed, <BR>
but not enough to not be interested in seeing the next episode.<BR>
<BR>
I still think a Tigress could take out the Andromeda, though....<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 20:55:10 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Attitude control<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of D Smart<BR>
> Sent: Monday, 9 October 2000 12:45 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Attitude control<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2000 11:42:50 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
> > From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
> > Subject:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Speaking of which, has everyone else heard that the brilliant Cassini<BR>
> > engineers failed to account for doppler shifting of the Huygens probe's<BR>
> > telemetry in designing the receiver on Cassini, and that science return<BR>
> > may be lost as a result?  Everyone in favor of scrapping JPL<BR>
> and starting<BR>
> > from scratch, raise your hands.<BR>
><BR>
> WHAT?!? THOSE STUPID #*$*(&@#&(^&#^ MORONS!<BR>
><BR>
> Haven't they ever heard of "design reviews"?<BR>
><BR>
> Cripes, even *I* know about doppler shifts and I'm not even<BR>
> an engineer<BR>
> or a scientist.<BR>
><BR>
> Who were they using on their design teams? 8 year olds?<BR>
> (Sorry, Ditzie)<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps they also worked on the mars probe, you know the one with the mixed<BR>
metric and imperial measuring systems. Perhaps we should have a whip round<BR>
and get them a copy of FFS (any version).<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:58:56 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Will Doug rise to the challenge?<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry writes:<BR>
>P.S. - Yes, I've been a Goth on occasion.  But thank god there are no<BR>
>        pictures. :)<BR>
<BR>
Doug?  I know that my brother would be out buying photoshop (or downloading <BR>
GIMP) when faced with this challenge.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
It was blasphemous, it was sacrilegious, and it was a little bit too much fun.<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:07:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Imperial membership on Balkanized worlds<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Imperial citizens are not taxed directly by the Imperium.  Rather, each<BR>
>world is assessed a required contribution to the subsector government,<BR>
>based (to a first approximation) on GNP.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Balkanized worlds are a problem in this scheme, and indeed squabbles over<BR>
>apportionment of tax burden is a common trigger for worsening relations<BR>
>and even war between nations on such worlds.<BR>
<BR>
        This brings up questions about the citizenship of sophonts on<BR>
        balkanized worlds.  If one "country" on a balkanized world joins the<BR>
        Imperium, what is the status of individuals on the rest of that world?<BR>
        Are they considered Imperial citizens?  Can they join the Imperium<BR>
        separately?  Do they typically have their own starport(s)?<BR>
<BR>
        I have supposed that the Imperium doesn't want more than one<BR>
        government to deal with on any one world, and only the country<BR>
        with the starport would actually join the Imperium.  Citizens of that<BR>
        country would be citizens of the Imperium, while the rest of the world<BR>
        would be considered "independant."  This would imply Imperial import<BR>
        -export control across the borders on such worlds, which would be a<BR>
        hassle.  The Imperium would collect dues based on the GDP of the<BR>
        member country.<BR>
<BR>
        This sounds rather messy to me.  Appart from the problems with<BR>
        controlling trade with the non-member parts of the world, how would<BR>
        the Imperium stop worlds from 'hiding' some of their GDP by becoming<BR>
        balkanized on paper?  Should the Imperium make all sophonts on a<BR>
        world as Imperial citizens, even if some parts of the world refuse<BR>
        membership or have no access to the Imperium at large?<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>In addition to all this, the Imperium itself collects fees and income<BR>
>taxes from Imperially-chartered megacorporations, and also has a<BR>
>significant equity in many of them.  These additional income streams give<BR>
>the Imperial center a bit more fiscal flexibility than might otherwise be<BR>
>the case.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
        I would expect the same to happen (on a smaller scale) at the<BR>
        subsector, sector and domain levels.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:51:47 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!?<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson<BR>
> >>> Ya know - every time I think about the Rebellion I get more and more<BR>
> >>> committed to the cause of Brzk - the only true pansophontist leader. <BR>
> >>> Hail Brzk!<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> Ah. So you're a Brzker? :-)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Nah.  They're his Huscarles!<BR>
> <BR>
> Sounds like "good life" to me.<BR>
<BR>
Of course I missed the reference the first time...<BR>
<BR>
Thing is:  IMTU I had a V***s that thought it was Brzk.  It's Huscarles<BR>
certainly would be goodlife.  Sadly, it had an ideology of "Virus, Vargr<BR>
and Humans are natural partners".  Or so it said.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:42:43 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Oh...<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Oh, so they are Brauhaus wannabes?<BR>
<BR>
Could be, I guess, but both Bauhaus and the Sisters have a distinctly<BR>
different sound. Bauhaus sort of reminds me of David Bowie on downers. The<BR>
Sisters tend to remind me of Leonard Cohen on cocaine, with a strong bent<BR>
toward the dramatic.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:42:41 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Where did they get their name?<BR>
<BR>
Trick question. :)<BR>
<BR>
Depending on the era of the interview and Eldritch's mood there are several<BR>
answers. The most common answer is that they got their name from a Leonard<BR>
Cohen song. Another common answer is that it's a euphemism for prostitution.<BR>
Another answer is that they got it from the name of an Irish convent. There<BR>
are probably others which I have yet to come across, but those are the ones<BR>
I remember reading at one point or another.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:03:30 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Is G:T useful as background material?<BR>
<BR>
>Question: Would the GURPS Traveller main book be useful to me as a<BR>
>background resource?<BR>
<BR>
I'd say not essential, but useful and interesting.  There isn't much<BR>
in there that would be *new* to a Trav veteran, but it does have all<BR>
the basic background information gathered together in one place - a<BR>
timeline and 60-odd pages of Library Data are probably most useful to<BR>
people who don't actually play GURPs, as the character generation,<BR>
equipment and starships info is system-specific.  The sidebar text<BR>
explaining the background to the Imperium, and why things work the way<BR>
they do, is also very good.<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
(Who is starting to feel more and more like the oddball on this list;<BR>
not only do I have no military experience, but I'm not a Sisters of<BR>
Mercy fan either...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:03:31 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller/Traveler<BR>
<BR>
>From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
>Any sad fiction/gaming nerds know which fictional characters owned owned<BR>
>horses named:<BR>
<BR>
>Home<BR>
<BR>
Jaldon, the Raider Khan, from the Dragon Pass wargame.<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
(Glorantha junkie, and proudly spelling "Traveller" with two "L"s<BR>
since, oh, 1970 or so...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:18:39 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
>"I'm guided by a signal in the heavens<BR>
> I'm guided by the birth-mark on my skin<BR>
> I'm guuided by the beauty of our weapons..."<BR>
><BR>
>from "First we take Manhattan"<BR>
><BR>
>You can hang an entire Traveller campaign around those three lines.<BR>
<BR>
<snicker> My tagline for October is "You loved me as a loser / But now<BR>
you're worried that I just might win" from the very same song. :)<BR>
<BR>
(I don't have my taglines set to show up in replies, so nobody ever sees<BR>
them. I probably should change that, as I suppose it sort of defeats the<BR>
purpose.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 08:50:31 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Plea for font help!<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
>Subject: RE: Plea for font help!<BR>
...<BR>
>OK, I've got the details, and I was wrong, he only has one book, and I doubt<BR>
>it's currently available. What he has is, in his own words :<BR>
><BR>
>"I have "The Look and Learn Book of The Trigan Empire". A Fleetway<BR>
>Annual. IPC Magazines Ltd.1973. Has about the first 70 pagers of the saga."<BR>
<BR>
  I remember that; I hope that I didn't throw out the one (first) hardcover<BR>
that I had...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 08:50:47 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>> -Russell "Explain the huge overlap of TMLers and Sisters of Mercy fans to<BR>
>> me" B<BR>
><BR>
>If there's such an overlap, why are there no posted filks to Sisters of<BR>
>Mercy songs? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
  Someone missed the SoM in-joke/pun-fest earlier this year...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 09:05:08 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
> >"I'm guided by a signal in the heavens<BR>
> > I'm guided by the birth-mark on my skin<BR>
> > I'm guided by the beauty of our weapons..."<BR>
> ><BR>
> >from "First we take Manhattan"<BR>
> ><BR>
> >You can hang an entire Traveller campaign around those three lines.<BR>
> <BR>
> <snicker> My tagline for October is "You loved me as a loser / But now<BR>
> you're worried that I just might win" from the very same song. :)<BR>
<BR>
Soooooooooooooooo...<BR>
<BR>
who's going to run this one?<BR>
<BR>
I wanna play in it!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:15:09 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: FWD: Re: Titan Games Preview for (10/8/00)<BR>
<BR>
  FWIW, Titan Games ( http://www.titangames.com/ ) latest update includes a<BR>
great<BR>
deal of Traveller stuff (below) - plus lots of 2300 AD, TNE & Space 1889.<BR>
<BR>
  Not that any of this is a reason not to get the CT Reprints :><BR>
<BR>
>Game Designer's Workshop:<BR>
...<BR>
>    (Traveller)<BR>
>        Traveller Boxed Set (digest sized) (301) [$16, Box F-Contents VF]<BR>
>Traveller Boxed Set (3rd printing, picture on back, digest sized) [$50,<BR>
Boxed-N]<BR>
>        Understanding Traveller (?) [$6.5, NM]<BR>
>        The Traveller Book (softbound) (201) [$27, F]<BR>
>        The Traveller Book (softbound) (201) [$29, VF]<BR>
>        Book 0 - An Introduction to Traveller (322) (no cover)[$3, VF]<BR>
>        Book 1 - Characters and Combat [$4.5, G]<BR>
>        Book 1 - Characters and Combat [$5.5, F]<BR>
>        Book 2 - Starships [$6.5, VF]<BR>
>        Book 3 - Worlds and Adventures [$5.5, F]<BR>
>        Book 4 - Mercenary (304) [$12, F]<BR>
>        Book 4 - Mercenary (304) [$9, Fa]<BR>
>        Book 6 - Scouts (337) [$15, M]<BR>
>        Suppl. 1 - 1001 Characters (303) [$8.5, F]<BR>
>        Suppl. 2 - Animal Encounters (305) [$4, Fa]<BR>
>        Suppl. 6 - 76 Patrons (315) [$7.5, F]<BR>
>        Suppl. 8 - Library Data (A-M) (320) (cover fading)[$12.5, NM]<BR>
>        Suppl. 11 - Library Data (N-Z) (332) (initials inside cover)[$12, VF]<BR>
>        Suppl. 12 - Forms and Charts (334) [$10, VF]<BR>
>        Suppl. 13 - Veterans (336) [$10, M]<BR>
>        Adv. 2 - Research Station Gamma (311) [$10, F]<BR>
>        Adv. 6 - Expedition to Zhodane (325) (initials inside cover)[$18, NM]<BR>
>        Adv. 8 - Prison Planet (330) (price written on cover)[$17, NM]<BR>
>        Adv. 9 - Nomads of the World-Ocean (333) [$10, G]<BR>
>        Double Adv. 1 - Annic Nova/Shadows (312) [$12, VF]<BR>
>        Double Adv. 2 - Mission on Mithril/Across the Bright Face (313)<BR>
(cover fading)[$13.5, NM]<BR>
>        Double Adv. 3 - Death Station/The Argon Gambit (321) [$15, M]<BR>
>        Double Adv. 4 - Marooned/Marooned Alone (323) [$16.5, NM]<BR>
>        Double Adv. 5 - Horde/The Chamax Plague (327) [$13, NM]<BR>
>        Double Adv. 6 - Divine Intervention/Night of Conquest (331) [$12, NM]<BR>
...   <BR>
>Gamelords, Ltd.:<BR>
>    (Traveller)<BR>
>        Wanted: Adventurers (GL-1971) [$12, NM]<BR>
>        Lee's Guide to Interstellar Adventure, Vol. I (GL-1980) [$15, NM]<BR>
>        The Undersea Environment (GL-1984) [$12, NM]<BR>
>        The Drenslaar Quest (GL-1985) [$12, NM]<BR>
>        Ascent to Anekthor (GL-1987) [$12, NM]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:34:35 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/9/00 5:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm sorry to contradict you, but the Sisters have nothing to do with<BR>
>  Bauhaus, and Floodland is an excellent 13! A couple of ex-Sisters went<BR>
>  on to perpetrate the Mission, though. Ew.<BR>
<BR>
I thought they did, but maybe I confused it with the Mission. Doesn't matter, <BR>
Floodlands still counts as one of my favorite cd's and I prefer them to <BR>
Bauhuas anyway. And I'm not Goth. I just have esoteric music......(now if I <BR>
could only locate some aboriginal Australian music I'd be very happy).<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:36:42 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Rebellion and near-C rocks<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/9/00 5:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> The Rebellion Sourcebook has quite a big section about the <BR>
>  methods used by various factions to gain control of the important High <BR>
>  Population worlds. This sort of behavoiur isn't the way to avoid <BR>
disrupting <BR>
> the civilian economy.<BR>
<BR>
Including the use of near C rocks......<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:45:49 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: T5<BR>
<BR>
Rob Myers wrote:<BR>
> If tyhis is an annoying newbie question I'm very sorry, but I've looked<BR>
>on the FAQ, and I can't find the list archive, so can I quietly ask<BR>
>about Traveller 5? Is there a vague ETA on it and any indication of how<BR>
>closely it will be tied to any particular mileu?<BR>
<BR>
This is in no way official, but it's the impression I've picked up:  Marc Miller is slowly but surely tinkering with T5 in his spare time -- from his infrequent posts on the subject he seems to have spent most of his efforts to date on char-gen.  At present, T5 seems to be taking a backseat to the CT reprints, and I wouldn't look for a release (or even an announcement) until he's finished with those (mid-late 2001).  I suspect one of his main goals is to avoid the pitfall of T4 (which was rushed to market to meet unrealistic release schedules, causing the quality of proofing and editing to suffer BADLY) and take the time to make sure everything is right and correct well before publication is announced.<BR>
<BR>
As for Milieu setting, the grapevine has the initial setting being c. 200, but there's also been mention of a stand-alone pack (basic rules & milieu in one book) set at Terra's early expansion, and the general idea seems to be to have many milieux made available.<BR>
<BR>
Hope this satisfies your curiosity.  If I've gravely misstated anything, someone will presumably let us know.<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 09:51:32 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: GR's Andromeda<BR>
<BR>
Damn, it got pre-empted by the playoffs here, I wanted to see it. :-(<BR>
<BR>
Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> There really is a Trav reference here.  In the opening credits, they talk<BR>
> about a Long Night, carrying a torch against the darkness, etc.  Kevin<BR>
> Sorbo with delusions of being Norris? or worse, Cleon I? And what could be<BR>
> more obvious than the interstellar navy being called the 'High Guard?'<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:52:07 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Not really RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Frankie sez:<BR>
<BR>
>Has anyone else actually managed to read any of Cohen's novels ?<BR>
><BR>
>OTOH, he has some good lines, such as<BR>
><BR>
>"I'm guided by a signal in the heavens<BR>
> I'm guided by the birth-mark on my skin<BR>
> I'm guuided by the beauty of our weapons..."<BR>
><BR>
>from "First we take Manhattan"<BR>
><BR>
>You can hang an entire Traveller campaign around those three lines.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
 Or a passable movie (Titan A.E. in this case)...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:13:45 -0400<BR>
From: "James Fleming" <blackjack@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
In regards to goth band spinoffs mailto:Kagehira@aol.com  writes:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 10/9/00 5:29:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time,<BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
><BR>
> > I'm sorry to contradict you, but the Sisters have nothing to do with<BR>
> >  Bauhaus, and Floodland is an excellent 13! A couple of ex-Sisters went<BR>
> >  on to perpetrate the Mission, though. Ew.<BR>
><BR>
> I thought they did, but maybe I confused it with the Mission. Doesn't<BR>
matter,<BR>
> Floodlands still counts as one of my favorite cd's and I prefer them to<BR>
> Bauhuas anyway. And I'm not Goth. I just have esoteric music......(now if<BR>
I<BR>
> could only locate some aboriginal Australian music I'd be very happy).<BR>
<BR>
As far as Bauhaus goes, 3/4 of them went on to found Love & Rockets while<BR>
Peter Murphy, the lead singer pursued a solo career (which I personally<BR>
think is much better than anything L&R has done)  Members of the Sisters<BR>
went on to do the Mission (U.K.)?  and, IIRC, one of their guitarists played<BR>
with the Cure for a while.  As far as Aboriginal music goes, it should be<BR>
pretty easy to find in the world music sections of any Tower records or HMV.<BR>
There's an artist called Nomad that a friend of mine got me into who<BR>
performs music of different native groups.  The mix tape that she gave me<BR>
had some pieces he did from Aborignal tribal music and some Native American<BR>
stuff.  I really dug it and I should get off my butt to pick up some of his<BR>
stuff.  I actually had a discussion about RPG music with a friend of mine<BR>
after reading an abysmal article in Dragon about what is the recommended<BR>
role playing theme music.  I will supress the urge to rant about the article<BR>
but we came to the conclusion that aboriginal and some middle eastern music<BR>
can fit oh so well into any kind of campaign.  Does anyone have any other<BR>
preferences or recommendations as far as music for RPG's is concerned?<BR>
Another guilty pleasure of mine is the first Enya album "The Celts".  I<BR>
guess it was just the way it was introduced to me.  Well, I'll return to<BR>
lurking again.<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Jim Fleming<BR>
a.k.a. Blackjack Fleming<BR>
Hero For Hire<BR>
blackjack@pil.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:19:14 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 23:39:06 -0700<BR>
> From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
> <BR>
> > One of the better Goth-ish groups, prone to gravelly singing about<BR>
> > depressing subjects.  Their "Corrosion" is one of my fave club dance<BR>
> > songs.  Now, for 5 bonus trivia guru points, everyone:  Where did they get<BR>
> > their name?<BR>
> <BR>
> The Leonard Cohen song?<BR>
<BR>
Give the man his prize!  Leonard Cohen is actually rather popular with the<BR>
goth crew, at least those parts of it I know.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:29:33 -0700 <BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Longbow II<BR>
<BR>
While browsing through the G:T book this weekend looking for any mention of<BR>
the "Jump Masking", I again read the description of Longbow II and had this<BR>
thought:  What, exactly, are they _looking_ at?  If the core is 8000pc away,<BR>
that means that they can only see what was going on there 26,000 years ago.<BR>
This is ages before the Zhodani Core Expeditions - it is long after the<BR>
Ancients had their little unpleasantness, but about the time that the old<BR>
war machines were running out of steam on Vland; all in all, one of the<BR>
dullest periods in Traveller history.  The only thing that makes sense to me<BR>
is either:  a) they are trying to see what was in the core, _before_ the<BR>
Zhodani got there, without having to go there themselves, or b) that they<BR>
are actually looking at something a lot closer to home (Primordials?<BR>
Baddies from the Core?).  Of the two possibilities, the second seems more<BR>
plausable, as the level of secrecy does not feel right for a purely<BR>
scientific observation.<BR>
<BR>
	By the way, I could not find the reference to "Masking" - does<BR>
anyone know where it is?<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:33:11 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Leonard Cohen<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:29:40 +1300<BR>
> From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
> <BR>
> > One of the better Goth-ish groups, prone to gravelly singing about<BR>
> > depressing subjects.  Their "Corrosion" is one of my fave club dance<BR>
> > songs.  Now, for 5 bonus trivia guru points, everyone:  Where did they<BR>
> > get their name?<BR>
> <BR>
> Isn't it obvous ?<BR>
<BR>
I guess it was...I consistantly underrate the trivia depth of this list.<BR>
<BR>
> Has anyone else actually managed to read any of Cohen's novels ?<BR>
<BR>
No, and  tried valiantly.  I also dislike his early music, when he was<BR>
trying very hard (you could hear the effort) to be Bob Dylan.  The change<BR>
in style and octave since is quite astonishing.<BR>
<BR>
> OTOH, he has some good lines, such as<BR>
> <BR>
> "I'm guided by a signal in the heavens<BR>
>  I'm guided by the birth-mark on my skin<BR>
>  I'm guuided by the beauty of our weapons..."<BR>
> <BR>
> from "First we take Manhattan"<BR>
> <BR>
> You can hang an entire Traveller campaign around those three lines.<BR>
<BR>
:) Yeah, that song always gives me goosebumps.  It's also one of my<BR>
ten-year-old daughter's favorite songs (we're starting to call her<BR>
"Ditzie").  It's a weird experience to hear her reedy but enthusiastic<BR>
voice hammering out "First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin!" when<BR>
we listen to that album.<BR>
<BR>
His single best piece of writing is "Take This Waltz", though.  I<BR>
challenge anyone to really listen to that one without getting a little<BR>
damp around the eyes.  And "Tower of Song" is the best low-key "fuck you,<BR>
I have more important stuff to do" song ever written.<BR>
<BR>
> I don't whats more depressing, Leonard Cohen, or people pretending to be<BR>
> Leonard Cohen...<BR>
<BR>
At least SoM never pretended to be Cohen pretending to be Dylan. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 10:35:04 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:10:13 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>
> From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi><BR>
> <BR>
> Well, I got the impression from interviews (and the concert I saw two<BR>
> years ago) that Eldritch is not very happy to be classified as Goth.<BR>
<BR>
(1) He's named 'Eldritch'.<BR>
(2) He's not very happy.<BR>
<BR>
QED.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:52:24 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Gregory Carl Kettler <gckettle@midway.uchicago.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > Maybe not for general maneuvering but wouldn't such accuracy be<BR>
> > desireable when using a spinal mount for planetary bombardment?<BR>
> <BR>
> It's hard to get that kind of accuracy when firing thru an atmosphere. <BR>
<BR>
Even with a meson gun?  It should pass through atmosphere as easily as it<BR>
does starship armor.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:02:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
I use the music that fits the game:<BR>
<BR>
Fantasy - A lot of classical (esp. dark classical)<BR>
Modern - depends on the era<BR>
Cyberpunk - Industrial of course<BR>
Traveller - Depends on the mood that I am trying to set. Some classical,<BR>
some industrial, some 80's.<BR>
<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
- -----<BR>
Does anyone have any other<BR>
preferences or recommendations as far as music for RPG's is concerned?<BR>
Another guilty pleasure of mine is the first Enya album "The Celts".  I<BR>
guess it was just the way it was introduced to me.  Well, I'll return to<BR>
lurking again.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:09:43 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Oddballs<BR>
<BR>
Well, go and buy Vision Thing by the Sisters, and you can join the club.<BR>
<BR>
We meet on Tuesday nites the basement of a garage.<BR>
<BR>
Not too many rules.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
(Who is starting to feel more and more like the oddball on this list;<BR>
not only do I have no military experience, but I'm not a Sisters of<BR>
Mercy fan either...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:21:31 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Longbow II<BR>
<BR>
Pg 59, Far Trader.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
<BR>
	By the way, I could not find the reference to "Masking" - does<BR>
anyone know where it is?<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3137<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3138</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, October 9 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3138<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
T4 Fixes (long)<BR>
Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
Re: Attitude control<BR>
REF: Andromeda<BR>
RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Imperial membership on balkanized worlds<BR>
RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
RPG: Visual vs. Other (was Re: OT: Basslines)<BR>
Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR>
Re: Starship Troopers Cartoon (Was RE:Andromeda)<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play<BR>
Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
Re: T5<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 11:32:07 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> The lead singer and center of the band is Andrew Eldritch,<BR>
> the rest of the line-up (with the exception of the Doktor Avalanche, the<BR>
> drum machine) has changed over time. <BR>
<BR>
Actually, even Doktor Avalanche has changed as newer and more exciting drum<BR>
machines have become available. I think they're on their third Dr. A.<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
> Oh, so they are Brauhaus wannabes?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Eldritch claims to really not like the "goth" identification. Boy <BR>
could try wearing some bright colors and get rid of the mirrorshades if<BR>
he really felt that way, though. <BR>
<BR>
Rob Myers wrote:<BR>
> Regarding the basslines, the Sisters have always used a drum machine<BR>
> (Doktor Avalanche), and it took over bassline duties some time ago. <BR>
<BR>
Both _Floodland_ and _Vision Thing_ credit human bassists, though --<BR>
was it maybe during the period between _First & Last & Always_ that <BR>
Dr. A was the bassist?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie wrote:<BR>
> Considering the very boring and depressing nature of the songs, and the<BR>
> deep, somewhat nasal and atonal, voice used by the singer, they're trying<BR>
> very hard to be Leonard Cohen, and thus are named after Cohen's "Sisters of<BR>
> Mercy"<BR>
<BR>
Aww, come on, there's a huge difference between being influenced by someone<BR>
and "trying very hard to be" them. <BR>
<BR>
> Has anyone else actually managed to read any of Cohen's novels ?<BR>
> <BR>
> OTOH, he has some good lines, such as<BR>
> <BR>
> "I'm guided by a signal in the heavens<BR>
>  I'm guided by the birth-mark on my skin<BR>
>  I'm guuided by the beauty of our weapons..."<BR>
> <BR>
> You can hang an entire Traveller campaign around those three lines.<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, between that and some Sisters lyrics and some Iain Banks...<BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 13:53:19 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: T4 Fixes (long)<BR>
<BR>
Unofficial Personal T4 Fixes<BR>
<BR>
p.22-24	Mustering Out<BR>
	For characters that begin their adventuring career while still employed, it <BR>
is recommended that they receive one roll of the cash table and any <BR>
equipment that would logically be available to members of that career.<BR>
<BR>
p.26	Homeworld Common Skills<BR>
	Apply no DM to the second die roll for each Background Skill.<BR>
<BR>
p.26	Homeworld Generation<BR>
	Apply a 2 DM to Hydrographics if Atmosphere Thin or Vacuum. Apply +2 DM to <BR>
Hydrograpics if Atmosphere Dense. Replaces DMs from Size (which no longer <BR>
apply at all). If Atmosphere Vacuum, Hydrographics Desert World.<BR>
	Also, add new table (DM +1 if Population ten million or more; DM 1 if <BR>
Population Hundreds or less):<BR>
<BR>
Roll	Government Type 		Auxillary Table<BR>
2       Anarchy				Roll Again on Government Type<BR>
3       Company/corporation		Roll Again on Government Type<BR>
4       Participating Democracy		Charismatic Dictator<BR>
5       Self-Perpetuating Oligarchy	Charismatic Dictator<BR>
6       Representative Democracy	Charismatic Dictator<BR>
7       Feudal Tecnocracy		Non-Charismatic Leader<BR>
8       Captive Government		Non-Charismatic Leader<BR>
9       Balkanization			Non-Charismatic Leader<BR>
10      Civil Service Bureaucracy	Charismatic Oligarchy<BR>
11      Impersonal Bureaucracy  	Charismatic Oligarchy<BR>
12      Roll Again on Auxillary Table	Religious Dictatorship<BR>
<BR>
p.50	Tasks<BR>
	It is reccommended that the following dice amounts (from T5) are used in <BR>
place of the officially stated amounts:<BR>
<BR>
Difficulty	Dice Rolled<BR>
Easy		1D<BR>
Average		2D<BR>
Difficult       2.5D<BR>
Formidable	3D<BR>
Staggering	4D<BR>
Hopeless	5D<BR>
Impossible	6D<BR>
<BR>
p. 57	Resolving Wounds<BR>
	I personally suggest that flexible armor make each absorbed die do 1D3 <BR>
damage instead of 1 and that rigid armor reduce damage to 1/die absorbed. <BR>
Also, the maximum damage rule should be changed: no one characteristic can <BR>
take more than 3D (or 1D/100kg for animals) per attack. If you want to use a <BR>
max of 2D/characteristic for humans (due to their average mass of 100kg), <BR>
thats fine, too.<BR>
<BR>
p.123-128	Psionics<BR>
	For the Psionicist career, convert the ranks E1-E9 into O1-O9. The Rank 10 <BR>
means O10.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Also, see currently published Errata. Maybe I'll publish more fixes later.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
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http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:06:43 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
<BR>
Jim Fleming wrote:<BR>
> Does anyone have any other<BR>
>preferences or recommendations as far as music for RPG's is concerned?<BR>
>Another guilty pleasure of mine is the first Enya album "The Celts".  I<BR>
>guess it was just the way it was introduced to me.  <BR>
<BR>
I don't use music a lot in rpgs, 'cause it tends to be a distraction.  Sometimes the added atmosphere is worth it, though.  The best music is stuff that's "discreet" enough that it won't distract the players -- nothing with lyrics (at least in a language you know) or a catchy melody that'll get stuck in their heads.  Best bets are ambient, some kinds of techno, various "world music" (especially Indian/Middle-Eastern), and perhaps New Age aural-wallpaper (if you can stand that stuff -- I can't).  Some baroque classical might work, as long as you're sure to avoid anything too "familiar" (no Four Seasons or Water Music).  Movie scores are also frequently good, but, again, make sure it's not too brash, or something everybody knows already (i.e. pretty much anything by John Williams).  Most jazz is right out, since it demands too much attention from the listener.  And, of course, genre of game and style of play will dictate what's most appropriate.<BR>
<BR>
(Hmm, for someone who doesn't use music in games, I seem to have pretty extensive opinions on the subject...)<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:14:04 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Michael Houghton <herveus@Radix.Net><BR>
Subject: Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
Howdy!<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> For those interested, I found some Trigan Empire links on the Web (I didn't<BR>
> think it was out there - helps when you spell it correctly). Here's a couple of<BR>
> them:<BR>
><BR>
*boggle* I remember reading Trigan Empire when my brother was getting<BR>
Look-and-Learn thirty years ago. I thought it was an interesting strip<BR>
back then.<BR>
<BR>
yours,<BR>
Michael<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael and MJ Houghton   | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>
herveus@radix.net         | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>
Bowie, MD, USA            | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>
                          | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 16:09:21 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Attitude control<BR>
<BR>
>In any case, we don't need to get rid of JPL. Just get the US to drop<BR>
>these silly "feet" and "pounds".<BR>
><BR>
>Metric has been *legal* in the US for more than 200 years! And it would<BR>
>have been nice if we'd switched much earlier.<BR>
<BR>
It would have been better if the US had switched 200 years ago.<BR>
Ironically the other thing that would have prevented it was if<BR>
the US had never even tried to switch to metric (everything<BR>
would have been in US units).<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:52:25 -0400<BR>
From: "Vincent Runci" <vahid@prodigy.net><BR>
Subject: REF: Andromeda<BR>
<BR>
I was also struck by the many aspects of the show that could be taken as<BR>
Traveller references.  What about the ship's pilot?  I know it was referred<BR>
to as a bug, but it sure looked like a droyne to me.  I think the show has<BR>
some potential, especially as it looks like it is going to be in a "serial"<BR>
format.  Also,  I as flipping through the channels this morning and came<BR>
across a "Starship Troopers" cartoon.   The animation had a video game feel<BR>
and the uniforms and equipment had that gritty, realistic rendering, sort of<BR>
reminiscent of the marines in "Aliens".  It seemed cool, has anybody else<BR>
seen a whole episode of this show?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:35:13 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Jim wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Does anyone have any other preferences or recommendations as far as music<BR>
for RPG's is concerned?<BR>
<BR>
Well, if I didn't have certain aesthetic and theoretical concerns about the<BR>
validity of combining music and role-playing, and I had a considerable<BR>
budget, my own choices would look something like this:<BR>
<BR>
Medieval:<BR>
<BR>
	I would have to be something of a purist. I wouldn't really go the<BR>
"classical" route, as I feel that the tension between orchestral music and<BR>
traditional styles is insurmountable. It's not that I don't like classical<BR>
music (and I use the term to cover Western orchestral music in general, not<BR>
merely the classical period), but I just don't think that it would mesh well<BR>
with the role-playing experience. Orchestral music tends to overwhelm and<BR>
dominate. The only thing which can really compete with it is visual imagery,<BR>
and role-playing is simply not a visual medium (even if you hold up pictures<BR>
;) ).<BR>
	I wouldn't tie myself down to one style of traditional music. I know it's<BR>
quite popular to marry quasi-Celtic folk music to medieval themes. I'm<BR>
opposed to this on purely aesthetic grounds. If I never here the word<BR>
"Celtic" outside of ancient historical research, I'd be pretty happy. I'd<BR>
probably go purely traditional and pick something appropriate to the culture<BR>
I see the session as happening in, or I'd throw it all right out the window<BR>
and pick and choose with dramatic license.<BR>
<BR>
	In this case, I'd pick Eastern European or Slavic music for stuff like<BR>
combat: the rhythms would start slow as the players fumble around a bit with<BR>
the miniatures, but as they get more focused, the pace of the music would<BR>
match the imagined pace of the combat. If I knew for a fact that I'd be able<BR>
to pull it off, I'd try it. A lot of other music could be substituted here,<BR>
as long as it has a rhythm which gradually picks up speed.<BR>
<BR>
	I think that it would dovetail nicely.<BR>
<BR>
	I would certainly stay far away from any sort of rock 'n' roll, especially<BR>
quasi-medieval cliches like Led Zeppelin and the host of pseudo-pagan<BR>
British rock bands they inspired. If there's a bustle in my hedgerow, I<BR>
won't get alarmed, I'll simply call an exterminator.<BR>
<BR>
	I tend to be a big fan of huge cities in medieval campaigns. I guess all of<BR>
that Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser has gone to my head. Since I usually run<BR>
medieval-themed games in places such as Lankhmar, Waterdeep and Sigil, I'd<BR>
have a lot of freedom in choosing background "town" music, although I would<BR>
tend to favor pieces where the rhythm was emphasized and the melodic and<BR>
harmonic elements were downplayed. That way, it wouldn't clash when I was<BR>
playing a storekeeper or reading a description of a temple.<BR>
<BR>
Modern:<BR>
<BR>
	I think that I would have a lot of fun with a modern campaign, but it<BR>
depends on the era the game was set. I've always had a secret wish to run a<BR>
"Call of Cthulhu" game with a strong jazz-based soundtrack. Lovecraft really<BR>
wasn't in tune with the pop-culture of the 1920s, and I think that it would<BR>
be quite subversive to combine jazz and unspeakable horrors into one<BR>
delicious package.<BR>
<BR>
	Still, it would depend on the period. I've also always wanted to run a<BR>
modern horror game set in the late 1960s in San Francisco. Some of the<BR>
bizarre cults which set up shop in that period were pretty twisted, and it<BR>
would be nifty to combine drugs mankind shouldn't take with things man was<BR>
not meant to know. Of course, the music would be a landmine. To heighten the<BR>
absurdity, I wouldn't go to Jimi, Janis and Jefferson airplane, I would<BR>
dredge up the most banal and abysmal '60s pap, the wannabes, groups like the<BR>
Stone Ponies and singers like Melanie (my apologies in advance if I've<BR>
offended any fans of Melanie or the Stone Ponies).<BR>
<BR>
Sci-Fi:<BR>
<BR>
	Oh, the fun I would have. Where to begin? I would tend toward music with a<BR>
strong rhythm and few, if any, vocals. In a sense, electronica / techno /<BR>
drum'n'bass would be perfect. I might even consider ship-to-ship combat to<BR>
the tune of the Chemical Brothers' "Block Rockin' Beats". In fact, I'm<BR>
getting giddy just thinking about it. It depends, though. I can think of<BR>
sci-fi scenarios in which extremely uncomfortable albums, like Throbbing<BR>
Gristle's "Heathen Earth", or Lustmord's "Heresy" would be wonderful and<BR>
appropriate (the latter would work for underground scenarios in just about<BR>
any era).<BR>
<BR>
	Again, I like big, cosmopolitan cities. In a futuristic setting, I'd get a<BR>
chance to really pick from a really wide variety of musical styles. As far<BR>
as backgrounds go, I'd try to find really exotic or bizarre stuff, either<BR>
really, really experimental stuff or combinations of traditional musical<BR>
styles with skewed instruments (they did something like this for the film<BR>
version of "A Clockwork Orange").<BR>
<BR>
	All in all, though, I have to stress that, for the most part, I wouldn't do<BR>
any of the above. Role-playing is a primarily aural experience. It's a bunch<BR>
of people sitting around a table talking. Music, of any sort, would compete<BR>
for attention with both the GM and the players. The very nature of the two<BR>
mediums practically demands that they compete with each other. I think that<BR>
this is quite bad on the most fundamental level. I would have to be<BR>
absolutely sure that the music I was using wouldn't compete with my voice,<BR>
that it would add to the experience and not detract from it.<BR>
<BR>
	This isn't a problem in the movies or on TV, because visual and aural<BR>
mediums can go hand in hand and enhance each other. Visuals can be cut more<BR>
quickly to match with music, or a specific piece of music can be selected<BR>
very carefully to go with the pace of a specific scene. Good role-playing<BR>
sessions, although they may move at a good clip, are not staged and<BR>
pre-packaged in the same way that movies and television shows are.<BR>
Role-playing sessions are much less predictable, and even a DM with a<BR>
well-stocked CD rack would be hard-pressed to find the right music, even<BR>
some of the time, on the fly.<BR>
<BR>
- -=-<BR>
Chris Seamans ( semo@pil.net )<BR>
<BR>
"You loved me as a loser, but now you're<BR>
worried that I just might win"<BR>
- - Leonard Cohen, First We Take Manhattan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 12:37:39 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:29:40 +1300, "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz> <BR>
wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>OTOH, he has some good lines, such as<BR>
><BR>
>"I'm guided by a signal in the heavens<BR>
>  I'm guided by the birth-mark on my skin<BR>
>  I'm guuided by the beauty of our weapons..."<BR>
><BR>
>from "First we take Manhattan"<BR>
><BR>
>You can hang an entire Traveller campaign around those three lines.<BR>
<BR>
Traveller, hell.  That's pretty much the entire plot of TITAN A.E.<BR>
<BR>
See you on Planet Bob!  :)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:40:53 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Imperial membership on balkanized worlds<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 10:07:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
> From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
> <BR>
> This brings up questions about the citizenship of sophonts on balkanized<BR>
> worlds.  If one "country" on a balkanized world joins the Imperium, what<BR>
> is the status of individuals on the rest of that world?  Are they<BR>
> considered Imperial citizens?  Can they join the Imperium separately? <BR>
> Do they typically have their own starport(s)? <BR>
<BR>
I would suggest that in all but the most unusual circumstances, Imperial<BR>
membership is an all-or-nothing affair per planet (per system, actually).<BR>
For all the reasons you gave (which I'm snipping for brevity), having a<BR>
half-member planet would be a huge hassle.<BR>
<BR>
However, it is likely very common for a non-member balkanized world to<BR>
have one or two Imperial-friendly states, which the Imperium would tend to<BR>
covertly or overtly support depending on the details of the political<BR>
situation. Such support could take many forms, from assisting in<BR>
diplomatic efforts to convince other nations to join the Imperium en<BR>
masse, to military "assistance" (ranging from advisors and intelligence<BR>
sharing all the way up to shock troops in rare circumstances). <BR>
<BR>
There are some very cool adventure seeds lurking in such a situation.<BR>
<BR>
> I have supposed that the Imperium doesn't want more than one<BR>
> government to deal with on any one world, and only the country<BR>
> with the starport would actually join the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
On any balkanized world with sufficient population, technology, and<BR>
at least two first-tier powers, there will almost certainly be several<BR>
'main' starports, at least one per first-tier power.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, one condition of membership in the Imperium is that the world choose<BR>
a responsible point of contact for Imperial relations, by whatever means.<BR>
For example, were present-day Terra vying for admission into the 3I, a<BR>
logical choice might be the Secretary General of the UN; the leader of<BR>
such a transnational organization is a common choice.  Worlds with nations<BR>
at such bitter odds that no such organizations exist typically can't agree<BR>
on joint Imperial membership in any case.<BR>
<BR>
By the way, also IMTU, the 3I claims to admit only worlds on which a<BR>
majority of sophonts desire membership, but there are no formal controls<BR>
in place to verify this -- no vote is held if the planet doesn't work that<BR>
way, for example.  This is more of a qualitative assessment that admission<BR>
into the Imperium isn't likely to trigger planetary war or widespread<BR>
sabotage or the like.  It also means that if enough powerful nations<BR>
decide to go Imperial, they can drag the whole planet in if they can<BR>
convince the Imperium that they are capable of keeping the peace locally.<BR>
This can lead to some *very* dangerous areas for Imperial citizens on<BR>
newly-admitted balkanized worlds.  Check with IISS and TAS advisories<BR>
before leaving the extrality fence. :)<BR>
<BR>
> >In addition to all this, the Imperium itself collects fees and income<BR>
> >taxes from Imperially-chartered megacorporations, and also has a<BR>
> >significant equity in many of them.  These additional income streams give<BR>
> >the Imperial center a bit more fiscal flexibility than might otherwise be<BR>
> >the case.<BR>
> <BR>
>         I would expect the same to happen (on a smaller scale) at the<BR>
>         subsector, sector and domain levels.<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure it does; it just represents a bigger slice of the revenue pie at<BR>
the Imperial level.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:55:32 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
I just about always use music as a background. I keep it really really low,<BR>
so it just borders on the conscious mind, and it can really set the mood (at<BR>
least for me, and as the GM that is usually important).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
	This isn't a problem in the movies or on TV, because visual and aural<BR>
mediums can go hand in hand and enhance each other. Visuals can be cut more<BR>
quickly to match with music, or a specific piece of music can be selected<BR>
very carefully to go with the pace of a specific scene. Good role-playing<BR>
sessions, although they may move at a good clip, are not staged and<BR>
pre-packaged in the same way that movies and television shows are.<BR>
Role-playing sessions are much less predictable, and even a DM with a<BR>
well-stocked CD rack would be hard-pressed to find the right music, even<BR>
some of the time, on the fly.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 12:58:58 -0700<BR>
From: "Luther Martin" <martin@ksarul.com><BR>
Subject: RPG: Visual vs. Other (was Re: OT: Basslines)<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I tend to be a big fan of huge cities in medieval campaigns. I guess all<BR>
of<BR>
> that Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser has gone to my head. Since I usually run<BR>
> medieval-themed games in places such as Lankhmar, Waterdeep and Sigil, I'd<BR>
> have a lot of freedom in choosing background "town" music, although I<BR>
would<BR>
> tend to favor pieces where the rhythm was emphasized and the melodic and<BR>
> harmonic elements were downplayed. That way, it wouldn't clash when I was<BR>
> playing a storekeeper or reading a description of a temple.<BR>
<BR>
The City State of the Invincible Overlord? I spend many hours poking around<BR>
there in old days, when D&D was still those three brown books with a few<BR>
supplements.<BR>
<BR>
> Role-playing is a primarily aural experience. It's a bunch<BR>
> of people sitting around a table talking. Music, of any sort, would<BR>
compete<BR>
> for attention with both the GM and the players. The very nature of the two<BR>
> mediums practically demands that they compete with each other. I think<BR>
that<BR>
> this is quite bad on the most fundamental level. I would have to be<BR>
> absolutely sure that the music I was using wouldn't compete with my voice,<BR>
> that it would add to the experience and not detract from it.<BR>
<BR>
What about the influence of miniatures, which seem to add a significant<BR>
visual element? Reflecting on past experiences, it seems that the experience<BR>
of gaming is fundamentally different in some vague way when you use<BR>
miniatures. Once you start moving miniatures around in those nice 3D models<BR>
of dungeons (or whatever, since this is indeed the TML), you start to think<BR>
of things differently. You don't seem to imagine things as much. Looking<BR>
back, my strongest memories of gaming are where miniatures were /not/ used.<BR>
Coincidence? Perhaps miniatures are not such a good thing.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:05:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 5:03 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Who plays what?!?!?!? (long)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> On 6 Oct 2000, at 13:07, Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >     Although I agree that such a resolution could have been possible,<BR>
> > (Especially if Norris had recognized Strephon as the real emperor) by<BR>
the<BR>
> > time MT was done with the Imperium, it was dead.<BR>
><BR>
> Even if Norris had done so, I doubt it would have done any good. The<BR>
spinward<BR>
> Marches were cut off from the rest of the Imperium and all Strephon's<BR>
continued<BR>
> participation would have done was get more of his followers killed.<BR>
><BR>
>Well, any support from Deneb would not have been military. If two of the<BR>
major factions had united, it would fundimentaly shift the balance. An<BR>
alliance with Norris would legitimize Stephon, making him more appealing to<BR>
the less extreme factions, such as Margaret and Daibei.  -Jeffrey<BR>
<BR>
> TNE simply finished it off.<BR>
> > Margaret in Survival Margin (The quote is an older one, I think, but I<BR>
cannot<BR>
> > remember where it first came from) notes that the 3I is viable only in<BR>
economic<BR>
> > terms. MT effectively limited interstellar trade to within the safe<BR>
sphere of<BR>
> > each faction. Even then, with the decimation of organized fleet<BR>
offensives<BR>
> > during the Hard Times, each faction had set into a mode of<BR>
attrition/penetration<BR>
> > commerce raids.<BR>
><BR>
> Not only that, but as Dave Nilsen (IIRC) said the factions had been at<BR>
each<BR>
> others throats for almost fifteen years and had in that time demonized<BR>
each<BR>
> other to such an extent and killed so many people so callously that the<BR>
rifts<BR>
> were (arguably) too deep to be healed. Thus any 'victor' would've<BR>
inhereited<BR>
> nothing but 10,000 burnt out worlds and a hollow throne.<BR>
<BR>
    Yep, exactly. - Jeffrey<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
><BR>
> A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:09:07 -0400<BR>
From: "James Fleming" <blackjack@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers Cartoon (Was RE:Andromeda)<BR>
<BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>
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<BR>
From what I've seen of it, the Starship troopers cartoon was alright.  =<BR>
It tried to walk the line between the book and the movie.  For example, =<BR>
the "Skinnies" appear in the cartoon from time to time and, according to =<BR>
a friend of mine, the characters have used powered armor on occasion.  =<BR>
I'm not a big fan of the pseudo realistic computer animation style that =<BR>
both Starship Troopers and Beast Wars uses but, when Batman/Superman was =<BR>
a rerun, I'd sit and watch Troopers. =20<BR>
<BR>
I'm curious about this Andromed though.  (Un)fortunately I don't watch =<BR>
much T.V. lately, I can hear the Postman fans on the list cheering, so =<BR>
I've not heard anything about this series until someone on the list =<BR>
mentioned it.  Any info on it would be appreciated (station, air times, =<BR>
plot, etc.) =20<BR>
Cheers,<BR>
Jim Fleming<BR>
a.k.a. Blackjack Fleming<BR>
Hero For Hire<BR>
blackjack@pil.net<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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<BR>
<DIV>From what I've seen of it, the Starship =<BR>
troopers=20<BR>
cartoon was alright.&nbsp; It tried to walk the line between the book =<BR>
and the=20<BR>
movie.&nbsp; For example, the "Skinnies" appear in the cartoon from time =<BR>
to time=20<BR>
and, according to a friend of mine, the characters have used powered =<BR>
armor on=20<BR>
occasion.&nbsp; I'm not a big fan of the pseudo realistic computer =<BR>
animation=20<BR>
style that both Starship Troopers and Beast Wars uses but, when =<BR>
Batman/Superman=20<BR>
was a rerun, I'd sit and watch Troopers.&nbsp; </DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<DIV>I'm curious about this Andromed =<BR>
though.&nbsp;=20<BR>
(Un)fortunately I don't watch much T.V. lately, I can hear the Postman =<BR>
fans on=20<BR>
the list cheering, so I've not heard anything about this series until =<BR>
someone on=20<BR>
the list mentioned it.&nbsp; Any info on it would be appreciated =<BR>
(station, air=20<BR>
times, plot, etc.)&nbsp; </DIV><BR>
<DIV>Cheers,</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Jim Fleming</DIV><BR>
<DIV>a.k.a. Blackjack Fleming</DIV><BR>
<DIV>Hero For Hire</DIV><BR>
<DIV><A=20<BR>
href=3D"mailto:blackjack@pil.net">blackjack@pil.net</DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BR>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0113_01C0320B.408DFC90--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 15:19:48 -0500<BR>
From: Eris Reddoch <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >From Eris' post:<BR>
> <BR>
> >>Who or what are "Sisters of Mercy"?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Goth! I really don't know.<BR>
> <BR>
> Was "goth" an intentional or unintentional error there? If it was<BR>
> unintentional, it's downright uncanny. If it was intentional, it offered me<BR>
> a bit of amusement. :)<BR>
<BR>
Intentional.  I did a web search before answering. <g> I vaguely<BR>
remembered them from something I saw once on MTV after I'd listened to a<BR>
couple of snippets on Amazon.com.<BR>
<BR>
I keep telling y'all that I'm an old guy, so old that the *parents* on<BR>
"The 70's Show" are closer to my age than the kids. I'm the same age as<BR>
the original "Charlie's Angels", had my first celebrity crush on Haley<BR>
Mills (also about my age), watched the original Star Trek in first run,<BR>
and actually *voted* against Nixon in '72...or was it for him, been so<BR>
long I've forgotten.  I even remember getting my Draft Lottery Number<BR>
freshman year in college, and the relief I felt when I came up 315.<BR>
Sheeze, how many of you even remember there *was* a Draft Lottery?<BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:37:47 EDT<BR>
From: XXOmenXXX@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play<BR>
<BR>
That was really cool.. Everyone should check it out<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 13:40:26 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>
Subject: Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Howdy!<BR>
> > <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Dear Folks -<BR>
> > <BR>
> > For those interested, I found some Trigan Empire links on the Web (I didn't<BR>
> > think it was out there - helps when you spell it correctly). Here's a couple of<BR>
> > them:<BR>
> ><BR>
> *boggle* I remember reading Trigan Empire when my brother was getting<BR>
> Look-and-Learn thirty years ago. I thought it was an interesting strip<BR>
> back then.<BR>
> <BR>
> yours,<BR>
> Michael<BR>
<BR>
Wow, what a coincidence!  I just found the hardback I have reprinting a <BR>
bunch of the stories this last weekend while getting some stuff that was<BR>
still at my  house!  I remember getting it a K-Mart in the late 70's/early <BR>
80's.  The only other time I've ever found anything on the Trigan Empire <BR>
was in a bookstore in France in the late 80's.  I always wondered where <BR>
the stories came from originally.<BR>
<BR>
Better yet I also came up with the book reprinting a lot of the original<BR>
Buck Rogers strips, books covering the first several years of Flash Gordon, <BR>
a good chunk of the Prince Valient reprints, all the Tintin books that made <BR>
it to the US, and some Asterix books.  <BR>
<BR>
				Zane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:54:32 -0400<BR>
From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: T5<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
> This is in no way official, but it's the impression I've picked up:  Marc<BR>
Miller is slowly but surely tinkering with T5 in his spare time -- from his<BR>
infrequent posts on the subject he seems to have spent most of his efforts<BR>
to date on char-gen.  At present, T5 seems to be taking a backseat to the CT<BR>
reprints, and I wouldn't look for a release (or even an announcement) until<BR>
he's finished with those (mid-late 2001).  I suspect one of his main goals<BR>
is to avoid the pitfall of T4 (which was rushed to market to meet<BR>
unrealistic release schedules, causing the quality of proofing and editing<BR>
to suffer BADLY) and take the time to make sure everything is right and<BR>
correct well before publication is announced.<BR>
<BR>
I don't see any urgency for T5. Marc did a lot of initial work on it after<BR>
IG melted down, but a lot of it was fixing the broken parts. There is a lot<BR>
more than chargen done and I would encourage you to get the playtest<BR>
material from Marc if you would seriously like to try it in give him<BR>
feedback. I think that the sucess of both GT and the reprints has bought<BR>
both Traveller and its author some time to rest and regroup. In the mean<BR>
time, the T5 playtest stuff is playable stuff as is. If all you have is T4<BR>
I'd suggest patching it up with the fixes available online and in the<BR>
playtest and just continue with the game unabated :-)<BR>
<BR>
> As for Milieu setting, the grapevine has the initial setting being c. 200,<BR>
but there's also been mention of a stand-alone pack (basic rules & milieu in<BR>
one book) set at Terra's early expansion, and the general idea seems to be<BR>
to have many milieux made available.<BR>
<BR>
It was not the grapevine only, but Marc himself who said that M:200 is what<BR>
he decided to package with the initial offering. Milieu books like M:0<BR>
Campaign would be added in popular eras as time passes. A complete,<BR>
stand-alone game is essential in today's mature market. Gone are the days<BR>
when a box of pamphlets with rules only can sell a quarter of a million<BR>
copies ;-)<BR>
<BR>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<><~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<BR>
Colin Michael, webmaster@downport.com<BR>
www.Downport.com - "The Traveller Domain"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3138<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3139</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, October 9 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3139<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
RE: Imperial membership on Balkanized worlds<BR>
Re: T5<BR>
Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
Re: Jump speed<BR>
Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
Quicktime (was Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play)<BR>
Re: Interesting Trav Item<BR>
Jump Point Cascade (was: RE: Jump speed)<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Quicktime (was Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play)<BR>
FWD: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Experience<BR>
Re: Old Guys<BR>
Re: dateline Mongo:  Bandits and deserters killed and captured<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:23:37 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
<BR>
>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
<BR>
>Yeah, and what were you doing out there in the desert for days on your<BR>
horse for anyway?  And<BR>
> what's the line in that song "Feels good to get out of the rain" all about<BR>
if it's a blooming<BR>
>desert?<BR>
<BR>
No, no, the singer was from the rainy east coast of the USA, and he was glad<BR>
to get out of the rain by travelling to the desert -- this one is not to be<BR>
confused with the rider in the rain, who is going to Arizona, just a rider<BR>
in the rain.  (He has been a desperado, raped and pillaged across the land,<BR>
and now he's going to Arizona, just a rider in the rain.)<BR>
<BR>
>And finally...why name a horse?  It's just my Horse, your Horse, ten Horses<BR>
in the barn, Does<BR>
>having a name mean anything to the bloody horse?<BR>
<BR>
Horses aren't as smart as dogs, but I have known a few who seemed to respond<BR>
to their names (or maybe it was just to our voices).  The importance of a<BR>
horse's name is to the owner, of course.  If I have six horses and you have<BR>
four, and I want to borrow your horse #1 and you want to trade your horse #3<BR>
for my horse #2, it's a lot easier if they just have names.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 15:23:41 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Imperial membership on Balkanized worlds<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
<BR>
>This brings up questions about the citizenship of sophonts on balkanized<BR>
worlds.  If one >"country" on a balkanized world joins the Imperium, what is<BR>
the status of individuals on the<BR>
>rest of that world? Are they considered Imperial citizens?  Can they join<BR>
the Imperium<BR>
>separately?  Do they typically have their own starport(s)?<BR>
<BR>
Here's how I handle these issues:<BR>
<BR>
One country can join the Imperium.  Its citizens would be citizens of the<BR>
Imperium.  The citizens of other countries would not be.<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium encouraged this approach during the expansion period.  The<BR>
member got a lot of benefits of Imperial membership, but lost the ability to<BR>
negotiate directly with other countries in the same star system; that had to<BR>
be handled by the Imperial Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  Other countries<BR>
were of course encouraged to join the Imperium.  An entire star system could<BR>
become a member of the Imperium bit by bit.  There is typically only one<BR>
starport per star system; who gets it is a major issue on balkanized worlds,<BR>
and may even lead to war.<BR>
<BR>
>This sounds rather messy to me.  Appart from the problems with controlling<BR>
trade with the non<BR>
>member parts of the world, how would the Imperium stop worlds from 'hiding'<BR>
some of their GDP by >becoming balkanized on paper?<BR>
<BR>
Once a world is a member of the Imperium, it is extremely difficult for it<BR>
or any part of it to stop being a part of the Imperium.  The TML has<BR>
discussed this before.  It basically takes a war.  So if unitary star system<BR>
A decides to let province 1 secede, the Imperium will treat province 1 as<BR>
part of the Imperium, establishing diplomatic and tax relationships.  If<BR>
province 1 does not want to be part of the Imperium, the Imperium will<BR>
strongly encourage it to change its mind.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 17:35:32 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: T5<BR>
<BR>
>From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: T5<BR>
>Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:54:32 -0400<BR>
><BR>
>----- Original Message -----<BR>
>From: <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
> > This is in no way official, but it's the impression I've picked up:  <BR>
>Marc<BR>
>Miller is slowly but surely tinkering with T5 in his spare time -- from his<BR>
>infrequent posts on the subject he seems to have spent most of his efforts<BR>
>to date on char-gen.  At present, T5 seems to be taking a backseat to the <BR>
>CT<BR>
>reprints, and I wouldn't look for a release (or even an announcement) until<BR>
>he's finished with those (mid-late 2001).  I suspect one of his main goals<BR>
>is to avoid the pitfall of T4 (which was rushed to market to meet<BR>
>unrealistic release schedules, causing the quality of proofing and editing<BR>
>to suffer BADLY) and take the time to make sure everything is right and<BR>
>correct well before publication is announced.<BR>
><BR>
>I don't see any urgency for T5. Marc did a lot of initial work on it after<BR>
>IG melted down, but a lot of it was fixing the broken parts. There is a lot<BR>
>more than chargen done and I would encourage you to get the playtest<BR>
>material from Marc if you would seriously like to try it in give him<BR>
>feedback. I think that the sucess of both GT and the reprints has bought<BR>
>both Traveller and its author some time to rest and regroup. In the mean<BR>
>time, the T5 playtest stuff is playable stuff as is. If all you have is T4<BR>
>I'd suggest patching it up with the fixes available online and in the<BR>
>playtest and just continue with the game unabated :-)<BR>
<BR>
Also check out the fixes for T4 I posted.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:03:44 -0700 <BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
<BR>
>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
><BR>
>Jim Fleming wrote:<BR>
>> Does anyone have any other<BR>
>>preferences or recommendations as far as music for RPG's is concerned?<BR>
><BR>
>I don't use music a lot in rpgs, 'cause it tends to be a distraction.<BR>
Sometimes the >added atmosphere is worth it, though.  The best music is<BR>
stuff that's "discreet" >enough that it won't distract the players --<BR>
nothing with lyrics (at least in a >language you know) or a catchy melody<BR>
that'll get stuck in their heads.  <BR>
<BR>
	I rarely use music for sci-fi rpgs, though I've occasionally used<BR>
Vangelis very quietly in the background.  I occasionally use environmental<BR>
recordings for fantasy rpg's - (sailboat recordings are great for waterborne<BR>
adventures), or when music is used, the soundtracks to Lord of the Rings,<BR>
Conan, and the orchestral music from Heavy Metal (now _that_ is a rare<BR>
recording). <BR>
	With Call of Cthulhu I tend to go overboard, with sound effects,<BR>
creepy wind-in-the-trees or cricket chirping environmental recordings,<BR>
soundtracks to movies like The Thing or Nightbreed (that's a good one), and<BR>
classical music like Rites of Spring, Night on Bald Mountain, and Danse<BR>
Macabre.  I remember one particularly ....ummm... intense game session where<BR>
the adventure was at the climax.  2am, candles lit, music going, tensions<BR>
wound up to the max - one of the players, curled nearly into a fetal<BR>
position in the couch moaned "God, please...turn the music off."  I smiled<BR>
evilly, face lit from beneath by a candle and whispered "no."<BR>
	When the final ritual of summoning began, I extinguished all the<BR>
other candles but the one beneath me, while slowly and imperceptably turning<BR>
down the music until there was no sound in the room but my voice.  When the<BR>
spirit was to make its appearance, I blew out the candle, quickly picked up<BR>
the hidden microphone, and my voice, speaking as the spirit, was run through<BR>
a distortion pedal and into a speaker _behind_ the players (I had hidden the<BR>
amp and cables earlier that evening before the game started.  The players<BR>
nearly clawed their way out of the living room.  Two of them had nightmares<BR>
for weeks.  As a GM..I think I did my job.  <smug grin> <BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 18:25:26 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
<BR>
>From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: "'traveller@lists.ient.com'" <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
>Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:03:44 -0700<BR>
><BR>
> >From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
> >Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Jim Fleming wrote:<BR>
> >> Does anyone have any other<BR>
> >>preferences or recommendations as far as music for RPG's is concerned?<BR>
> ><BR>
> >I don't use music a lot in rpgs, 'cause it tends to be a distraction.<BR>
>Sometimes the >added atmosphere is worth it, though.  The best music is<BR>
>stuff that's "discreet" >enough that it won't distract the players --<BR>
>nothing with lyrics (at least in a >language you know) or a catchy melody<BR>
>that'll get stuck in their heads.<BR>
><BR>
>	I rarely use music for sci-fi rpgs, though I've occasionally used<BR>
>Vangelis very quietly in the background.  I occasionally use environmental<BR>
>recordings for fantasy rpg's - (sailboat recordings are great for <BR>
>waterborne<BR>
>adventures), or when music is used, the soundtracks to Lord of the Rings,<BR>
>Conan, and the orchestral music from Heavy Metal (now _that_ is a rare<BR>
>recording).<BR>
>	With Call of Cthulhu I tend to go overboard, with sound effects,<BR>
>creepy wind-in-the-trees or cricket chirping environmental recordings,<BR>
>soundtracks to movies like The Thing or Nightbreed (that's a good one), and<BR>
>classical music like Rites of Spring, Night on Bald Mountain, and Danse<BR>
>Macabre.  I remember one particularly ....ummm... intense game session <BR>
>where<BR>
>the adventure was at the climax.  2am, candles lit, music going, tensions<BR>
>wound up to the max - one of the players, curled nearly into a fetal<BR>
>position in the couch moaned "God, please...turn the music off."  I smiled<BR>
>evilly, face lit from beneath by a candle and whispered "no."<BR>
>	When the final ritual of summoning began, I extinguished all the<BR>
>other candles but the one beneath me, while slowly and imperceptably <BR>
>turning<BR>
>down the music until there was no sound in the room but my voice.  When the<BR>
>spirit was to make its appearance, I blew out the candle, quickly picked up<BR>
>the hidden microphone, and my voice, speaking as the spirit, was run <BR>
>through<BR>
>a distortion pedal and into a speaker _behind_ the players (I had hidden <BR>
>the<BR>
>amp and cables earlier that evening before the game started.  The players<BR>
>nearly clawed their way out of the living room.  Two of them had nightmares<BR>
>for weeks.  As a GM..I think I did my job.  <smug grin><BR>
><BR>
>	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
>-------------------------------------------<BR>
>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to <BR>
>think.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I _LOVE_ it! ;-) (LOL!!!)<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
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http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 16:55:22 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
<BR>
Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I remember one particularly ....ummm... intense game session where<BR>
> the adventure was at the climax.  2am, candles lit, music going, tensions<BR>
> wound up to the max - one of the players, curled nearly into a fetal<BR>
> position in the couch moaned "God, please...turn the music off."  I smiled<BR>
> evilly, face lit from beneath by a candle and whispered "no."<BR>
<BR>
You are a TrueEvil GM! I've never been able to get my players to<BR>
whimper...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>         When the final ritual of summoning began, I extinguished all the<BR>
> other candles but the one beneath me, while slowly and imperceptably turning<BR>
> down the music until there was no sound in the room but my voice.  When the<BR>
> spirit was to make its appearance, I blew out the candle, quickly picked up<BR>
> the hidden microphone, and my voice, speaking as the spirit, was run through<BR>
> a distortion pedal and into a speaker _behind_ the players (I had hidden the<BR>
> amp and cables earlier that evening before the game started.  The players<BR>
> nearly clawed their way out of the living room.  Two of them had nightmares<BR>
> for weeks.  As a GM..I think I did my job.  <smug grin><BR>
<BR>
Just out of curiosity, how did you get the stains out of the couch? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:47:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> P.S. - Yes, I've been a Goth on occasion.  But thank god there are no<BR>
>        pictures. :)<BR>
<BR>
... that you know of... <eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 16:52:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I keep telling y'all that I'm an old guy, so old that the *parents* on<BR>
> "The 70's Show" are closer to my age than the kids. I'm the same age as<BR>
> the original "Charlie's Angels", had my first celebrity crush on Haley<BR>
> Mills (also about my age), watched the original Star Trek in first run,<BR>
> and actually *voted* against Nixon in '72...or was it for him, been so<BR>
> long I've forgotten.  I even remember getting my Draft Lottery Number<BR>
> freshman year in college, and the relief I felt when I came up 315.<BR>
> Sheeze, how many of you even remember there *was* a Draft Lottery?<BR>
<BR>
I remember. In my junior year of high school some of us were looking at<BR>
the numbers and the paper to see what our "fate" would have been if we<BR>
were a year older. I forget what I got, but one of my friends saw that<BR>
he'd have been number *1*.<BR>
<BR>
Then they dropped the lottery the next year.<BR>
<BR>
> Eris<BR>
><BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:04:48 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Reaction wheels (was Tigress Class)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Sun, 8 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> > Maybe not for general maneuvering but wouldn't such accuracy be<BR>
>> > desireable when using a spinal mount for planetary bombardment?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> It's hard to get that kind of accuracy when firing thru an atmosphere. <BR>
><BR>
> Even with a meson gun?  It should pass through atmosphere as easily as it<BR>
> does starship armor.<BR>
<BR>
Don't forget that accuracy depends on several factors:<BR>
<BR>
How accurately you can point the weapon.<BR>
How much the atmosphere affects the beam or projectile.<BR>
How accurately you can determine the ship's orbit. <BR>
How accurately you know the location of the target.<BR>
How accurately you can observe the "fall of the shot".<BR>
<BR>
The inaccuracy in your orbit is going to be a big factor. It's not as<BR>
if the locals are going to be feeding you position info to help tie<BR>
your co-ordinate system into *their* co-ordinate system.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:15:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Jump speed<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Paul wrote:<BR>
>> >So what's 'Jump Masking' then?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> More 2D jumpspace stuff. If your target world is on the far <BR>
>> side of a star, you<BR>
>> can't jump to its j-point, even if unmasked. Your vector must skim the<BR>
>> intervening star's 100D limit, and thus be (at worst) 100 <BR>
>> solar diameters from<BR>
>> the planet.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Bad ASCII art follows:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> ----jump vector------------------+<BR>
>>                  __              |<BR>
>>                 /  \             V<BR>
>>                |    |            O  <---planet's 100D limit<BR>
>>                 \__/ <---star's 100D limit<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Hopefully this gives you can get the idea - the vector is <BR>
>> meant to be just<BR>
>> skimming the star, but I can't draw that. ;-)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> ??????? <penny drops> Oh my God!!!...... the Oort cloud... other<BR>
> planets.... moons of other planets.... random asteroids..... binary star<BR>
> systems....brown dwarfs... what does the chance of actually getting to<BR>
> the world you want become???<BR>
<BR>
They'd still be pretty good. The stuff *isn't* that thick out there.<BR>
And at least with stuff in the outer system, you can wilderness refuel<BR>
pretty easily.<BR>
<BR>
> <player perspective> Who came up with this idea then? Shoot them.... at<BR>
> once!<BR>
> <referee perspective> Hmmmm....this is very interesting.... with this I<BR>
> could.....<much evil scheming follows><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 17:10:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Better yet I also came up with the book reprinting a lot of the original<BR>
> Buck Rogers strips, books covering the first several years of Flash Gordon, <BR>
> a good chunk of the Prince Valient reprints, all the Tintin books that made <BR>
> it to the US, and some Asterix books.  <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:<BR>
<BR>
Your mercenary unit has been hired by an empire on a TL1 balkanized<BR>
world. They've been expanding over their continent and have conquered a<BR>
good chunk of it. But there's this one village of "barbarians" still<BR>
holding out... <eg><BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:46:52 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Quicktime (was Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play)<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Tod wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Just started listening.  Great stuff.  I've converted the files to quicktime<BR>
>format for Macintosh users, if you're interested.<BR>
<BR>
Quicktime exists on the PC too - is this a genuine cross-platform product? That<BR>
is, is the PC version of Quicktime able to read a Quicktime file made for or on<BR>
the Mac?<BR>
<BR>
I'm just interested, really. I first wondered about this when Myst and Riven<BR>
talked about supporting both platforms.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 20:56:17 -0500<BR>
From: Jimmy Simpson <nimrod@santech.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Interesting Trav Item<BR>
<BR>
At 12:31 PM 10/9/2000 +1100, David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson wrote:<BR>
>Paul wrote:<BR>
> >Issues 1 and then 2 of Imperial Lines were actually published. Issue 3 & 4<BR>
> >(a combined issue) was ready for publication (I have a proof copy), but<BR>
> >never actually printed.<BR>
><BR>
>I never received my copy of #2! Ripped off or what!! (Is it any good??)<BR>
><BR>
>Who owns the reprint/web rights? Marc, would you allow it to go up on the web?<BR>
<BR>
I never received anything beyond issue 1 and until I saw this thread here, <BR>
I never knew any others existed.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jimmy Simpson<BR>
	nimrodd@mail.com<BR>
"Cannot say.<BR>
  Saying, I would know.<BR>
  Do not know.<BR>
  So cannot say."<BR>
		-Zathras (Babylon 5)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:51:35 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Jump Point Cascade (was: RE: Jump speed)<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Paul goggled:<BR>
>??????? <penny drops> Oh my God!!!...... the Oort cloud... other<BR>
>planets.... moons of other planets.... random asteroids..... binary star<BR>
>systems....brown dwarfs... what does the chance of actually getting to<BR>
>the world you want become???<BR>
<BR>
Exactly! Which is why I prefer Leroy's idea (apologies to those of you who know<BR>
and dislike him...) of a jump-point cascade.<BR>
<BR>
This idea says that the higher the jump number, the more accurate the drive (in<BR>
addition to the longer "reach"). A J-1 ship can only target the biggest gravity<BR>
well in a system - the star's 100D limit. A J-2 ship can target the star's limit<BR>
or the next biggest gravity well - for example, the biggest gas giant. And so<BR>
on.<BR>
<BR>
The only drawback of this is that most systems have more than 6 worlds, so a<BR>
refinement is needed to widen the scope and align it better with canon. I<BR>
haven't ever talked about this on the TML, because I haven't thrashed out all<BR>
the ramifications yet (such as jumping to empty hexes), but the following draft<BR>
table will give you an idea:<BR>
<BR>
     Drive          Smallest Target<BR>
     J-1            Any star<BR>
      J-2            Any gas giant<BR>
     J-3            Size-8 planets<BR>
     J-4            Size-4 planets<BR>
     J-5            Size-0 planets<BR>
     J-6            Anything in system (incl. the Oort Cloud)<BR>
<BR>
This concept creates the following effects (at least):<BR>
     - it is an enabler of the p-word, since it reduces the inbound target<BR>
destinations somewhat;<BR>
     - it helps explain why military fleets do not routinely bypass all system<BR>
defences by hopping from Oort Cloud to Oort Cloud in order to conduct deep<BR>
penetration raids - it's hard to carry J-6 drives AND substantial weaponry;<BR>
     - it assists in creating choke-points by making gg's more likely targets;<BR>
     - it assists in explaining why the 3I standardised on J-4 drives for the<BR>
majority of its front-line ships.<BR>
<BR>
Any others?<BR>
<BR>
[BTW, I just thought about the empty hex problem, and maybe one answer is that<BR>
it is easy to jump to an empty hex if you don't care too much about accuracy -<BR>
you just land somewhere in there, refuel, and only worry about accuracy when<BR>
plotting your next jump to an occupied system. Accuracy only becomes a problem<BR>
when jumping to a Calibration Point, which is another reason why the<BR>
Nemesis-class have J-5 drives - and why the J-5 Vengance is able to jump to<BR>
Strephon's secret ice-asteroid. J-6 couriers, of course, have no problems<BR>
targetting the sort of ice asteroids/refuelling stations that supposedly get<BR>
dropped at CP's.]<BR>
<BR>
Comments are welcome - especially if this idea blows holes in canon, military<BR>
strategy, etc (I still prefer it to jump-point masking - blech! ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:51:47 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Bryan said:<BR>
>Bauhuas anyway. And I'm not Goth. I just have esoteric music......(now if I<BR>
>could only locate some aboriginal Australian music I'd be very happy).<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't Yothu Yindi's ("Treaty", pls ref.==> Olympics ;-) stuff show up in the<BR>
US? What price Gondwanaland ("Let The Dog Out",etc)?<BR>
<BR>
Jim said:<BR>
>Another guilty pleasure of mine is the first Enya album "The Celts".  I<BR>
>guess it was just the way it was introduced to me.<BR>
<BR>
Hmmmm (as in "things that make you go..."). Triple-J (Oz-wide alternative radio<BR>
station) over here takes quite a regular poll of "preferred music for<BR>
bonking"... ;-)<BR>
<BR>
(Sorry, I'll now return you to your regulary scheduled Traveller program)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:15:11 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Quicktime (was Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play)<BR>
<BR>
on 10/9/00 6:46 PM, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au at<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> Tod wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
>> Just started listening.  Great stuff.  I've converted the files to quicktime<BR>
>> format for Macintosh users, if you're interested.<BR>
> <BR>
> Quicktime exists on the PC too - is this a genuine cross-platform product?<BR>
> That<BR>
> is, is the PC version of Quicktime able to read a Quicktime file made for or<BR>
> on<BR>
> the Mac?<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Yes, QuickTime files are platform independent.<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 19:54:59 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: FWD: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
>Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
...<BR>
>As far as Bauhaus goes, 3/4 of them went on to found Love & Rockets while<BR>
>Peter Murphy, the lead singer pursued a solo career (which I personally<BR>
>think is much better than anything L&R has done) <BR>
<BR>
  Well, a Leonard Cohen thread has to be comfortable with gloomy thoughts,<BR>
so try this - I went to my first Peter Murphy concert this spring, and<BR>
AFAIC 80+% of the audience (myself included...) was pretty much too young<BR>
to have actually heard Bauhaus the first time around. I doubt that this<BR>
was very re-assuring for the aging goths running up on the big four-oh.<BR>
<BR>
  So everyone here who whines about being over the hill should be real<BR>
careful about going to concerts - you might not like what you see :><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:23:02 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Experience<BR>
<BR>
> Stephen<BR>
>  <BR>
>  (Who is starting to feel more and more like the oddball on this list;<BR>
>  not only do I have no military experience, but I'm not a Sisters of<BR>
>  Mercy fan either...)<BR>
<BR>
You are not alone. I have never been in the military, and had never heard of <BR>
Sisters of Mercy before this latest mention (but then again, I prefer the <BR>
sound of the 60s . . . the 1660s!     see http://www.io.com/~lkw/)<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:34:20 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Old Guys<BR>
<BR>
> I keep telling y'all that I'm an old guy, so old that the *parents* on<BR>
>  "The 70's Show" are closer to my age than the kids.<BR>
<BR>
Check<BR>
>  I'm the same age as<BR>
>  the original "Charlie's Angels", <BR>
<BR>
also check.<BR>
<BR>
>  had my first celebrity crush on Haley Mills<BR>
<BR>
Joey Heatherton in my case . . . she's older than me, but who cares?<BR>
<BR>
>  watched the original Star Trek in first run,<BR>
<BR>
Same here.<BR>
<BR>
>  and actually *voted* against Nixon in '72...or was it for him, been so<BR>
>  long I've forgotten.<BR>
Against in my case . . . my first and my best vote . . .<BR>
<BR>
>  I even remember getting my Draft Lottery Number<BR>
>  freshman year in college, and the relief I felt when I came up 315.<BR>
<BR>
196 I think -- missed going to Vietnam by 3 integers<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2000 21:12:08 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: Re: dateline Mongo:  Bandits and deserters killed and captured<BR>
<BR>
> Mingo City, Mongo/Jewell, 134-1112 (TNS):  In a brief and violent action<BR>
<BR>
<crackle> This is Reb<crackle> Radio Re<crackle> Free Mongo <crackle><BR>
<BR>
> south of the Perfumed River today, armored elements of the Mongo Defense<BR>
> Force killed and captured several<BR>
<BR>
<zzzt> fearless freedom fighters <crackle><BR>
<BR>
> self-propelled artillery vehicle, an official Government of Mongo press<BR>
> release reported.<BR>
<BR>
<pop...crackle...hiss><BR>
<BR>
> Ming's Magnificent Mulberry Gardens, where a small unit action took place<BR>
> last month between government forces and criminal elements.<BR>
> <BR>
> Two MDF units responded quickly, sending several Myrmidon grav tanks and<BR>
<BR>
<hiss>reckless loyalist forces ambushed by Merciless tanks<BR>
<zzzzzt>Myrmidon<BR>
grav tank suffered catastrophic hit due to Merciless gunner's<BR>
expert<crackle><BR>
<BR>
> by fire from the MDF tanks, and most of the bandits and deserters on foot<BR>
> were quickly killed by the Myrmidons' secondary armament, automatic grenade<BR>
> launchers and multiple-barreled automatic weapons.  <BR>
<BR>
<hisss> loyalist Mongo forces perfidiously engaged surrend<crackle><BR>
infantry<BR>
with their tank's main laser armament <zzzt><BR>
<BR>
> The remaining self-propelled gun, <crackle> cover of a prismatic aerosol.  <BR>
<BR>
<ssssssss-pop>remaining loyalists forces underestimated the duration of<BR>
the<BR>
prismatic aerosol and soon lost interest leaving the battle field in<BR>
control<BR>
of the <pop><BR>
<BR>
> forces returned to the ruins of Myrmidon City, where they have established a<BR>
<BR>
<crackle>disabled Myrmidon grav tank towed away by freedom fig<zzzzt><BR>
<BR>
> The Traveller News Service is an Imperium-wide benefit of membership in the<BR>
> Travellers' Aid Society.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3139<BR>
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3139<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3140</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	10/10/00 9:52:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, October 10 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3140<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
ghosts of traveller past return<BR>
Service Dates<BR>
Re: Old Guys<BR>
RE: Service Dates<BR>
Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
Re: Service Dates<BR>
Music to game by<BR>
RE: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Andromeda<BR>
RE: The Trigan Empire<BR>
Re: Imperial Membership on Balkanised worlds<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3137<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: T5<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Quicktime (was Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play)<BR>
RE: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Imperial membership on Balkanized worlds<BR>
Re: Quicktime<BR>
Help Needed<BR>
Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:04:50 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
Damn no!  It is shown here on cable - on a channel we do not subscribe to -<BR>
so we cannot see it.  Having read the review of the movie of the series, it<BR>
sounded good enough for us to subscribe to watch the movie alone (1.5 hours<BR>
of computer animated graphics), but one thing lead to another and we failed<BR>
to subscribe and missed it.  The review, for what it's worth, stated that<BR>
this movie was absolutely true to the book.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Vincent Runci <vahid@prodigy.net><BR>
To: TML <traveller@ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 5:52:am<BR>
Subject: REF: Andromeda<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I was also struck by the many aspects of the show that could be taken as<BR>
> Traveller references.  What about the ship's pilot?  I know it was<BR>
referred<BR>
> to as a bug, but it sure looked like a droyne to me.  I think the show has<BR>
> some potential, especially as it looks like it is going to be in a<BR>
"serial"<BR>
> format.  Also,  I as flipping through the channels this morning and came<BR>
> across a "Starship Troopers" cartoon.   The animation had a video game<BR>
feel<BR>
> and the uniforms and equipment had that gritty, realistic rendering, sort<BR>
of<BR>
> reminiscent of the marines in "Aliens".  It seemed cool, has anybody else<BR>
> seen a whole episode of this show?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 23:40:40 -0500<BR>
From: "Shadowcat" <res053z0@gte.net><BR>
Subject: ghosts of traveller past return<BR>
<BR>
while visiting an area gaming store this past saturday, I met up with <BR>
Dave Sering formerly of Judges Guild, who has finally retired from <BR>
the Navy, and is now back in the central Illinois area. hes not <BR>
online yet, but he knows about the TML, and I wouldnt be at all <BR>
surprised to see him show up here at some point. I do have a <BR>
business card and address for him, and I can be contacted offlist<BR>
if somebody would need that information.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:25:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu><BR>
Subject: Service Dates<BR>
<BR>
Does anyone know of any recorded service dates for Imperial warships?<BR>
<BR>
Jeffrey Yin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 01:08:50 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Old Guys<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> I keep telling y'all that I'm an old guy, so old that the *parents* on<BR>
>>  "The 70's Show" are closer to my age than the kids.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>>  had my first celebrity crush on Haley Mills<BR>
><BR>
>Joey Heatherton in my case . . . she's older than me, but who cares?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
You think you are old!  Mine was Annette, she of the Mouse Ears.<BR>
<BR>
>>  watched the original Star Trek in first run,<BR>
><BR>
>Same here.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ditto<BR>
<BR>
>>  and actually *voted* against Nixon in '72...or was it for him, been so<BR>
>>  long I've forgotten.<BR>
>Against in my case . . . my first and my best vote . . .<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ditto again I was probably the only person in Onslow County, N.C., the well<BR>
known home of Camp Lejune, who did so.<BR>
<BR>
>>  I even remember getting my Draft Lottery Number<BR>
>>  freshman year in college, and the relief I felt when I came up 315.<BR>
><BR>
>196 I think -- missed going to Vietnam by 3 integers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Mine was 37, took a deferment, then went ROTC.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 13:16:27 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Service Dates<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Yin<BR>
> Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2000 12:26 PM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Service Dates<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Does anyone know of any recorded service dates for Imperial warships?<BR>
><BR>
> Jeffrey Yin<BR>
><BR>
The only official dates of which I am aware of are for the Kinunir class<BR>
(Adventure 1) and the Azhanti High Lightning class (Supplement 5 I think) If<BR>
you do not have access to these let me know and I will send them to you, or<BR>
one of the other list members will likely have them and can send you.<BR>
<BR>
The starships issue of Travellers Digest (I think) mentioned that the Regal<BR>
class BCs and Atlantic class CAs served in the 4th Frontier war but no<BR>
specific service dates were mentioned.<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 21:17:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         When the final ritual of summoning began, I extinguished all the<BR>
> other candles but the one beneath me, while slowly and imperceptably turning<BR>
> down the music until there was no sound in the room but my voice.  When the<BR>
> spirit was to make its appearance, I blew out the candle, quickly picked up<BR>
> the hidden microphone, and my voice, speaking as the spirit, was run through<BR>
> a distortion pedal and into a speaker _behind_ the players (I had hidden the<BR>
> amp and cables earlier that evening before the game started.  The players<BR>
> nearly clawed their way out of the living room.  Two of them had nightmares<BR>
> for weeks.  As a GM..I think I did my job.  <smug grin> <BR>
<BR>
I've never done anything like that. Closest I've come to that was a<BR>
cheery little tape I made to play while the players were setting up for<BR>
our D&D games:<BR>
<BR>
"Suicide is Painless" (from the movie version of M*A*S*H, complete with<BR>
			lyrics)<BR>
"Lykewake Dirge" Pentangle<BR>
"Where There's A Whip, There's a Way" (from the Rankin-Bass "Return of<BR>
			the King")<BR>
"Win the Battle, Lose the War" (from the Rankin-Bass "Return of the King")<BR>
"The Wearer of the Ring" (from the Rankin-Bass "Return of the King")<BR>
<BR>
I could tell stories about one particular Halloween a while back.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 22:42:02 -0700<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Service Dates<BR>
<BR>
I do not own the Kinuir adventure, so I would be interested in that number<BR>
if you could. Thanks.<BR>
Jeffrey Yin<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2000 10:16 PM<BR>
Subject: RE: Service Dates<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> > -----Original Message-----<BR>
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jeffrey Yin<BR>
> > Sent: Tuesday, 10 October 2000 12:26 PM<BR>
> > To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> > Subject: Service Dates<BR>
> ><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Does anyone know of any recorded service dates for Imperial warships?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Jeffrey Yin<BR>
> ><BR>
> The only official dates of which I am aware of are for the Kinunir class<BR>
> (Adventure 1) and the Azhanti High Lightning class (Supplement 5 I think)<BR>
If<BR>
> you do not have access to these let me know and I will send them to you,<BR>
or<BR>
> one of the other list members will likely have them and can send you.<BR>
><BR>
> The starships issue of Travellers Digest (I think) mentioned that the<BR>
Regal<BR>
> class BCs and Atlantic class CAs served in the 4th Frontier war but no<BR>
> specific service dates were mentioned.<BR>
><BR>
> Antony<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 02:10:29 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Music to game by<BR>
<BR>
 Last month's Dragon Magazine had an article on just this subject (and if you <BR>
see a copy of this issue (#275), LET ME KNOW!)<BR>
<BR>
 Appropriate music I've found:<BR>
<BR>
 -the Final Fantasy (yes, the Playstation games) VII, VIII, and IX <BR>
soundtracks. Also quite good for other genre play. As each of these is a four <BR>
CD set, there is a LOT of stuff to listen to, and it's useful for a wide <BR>
variety of situations. The best value is (IMHO) the FF VIII set, as it tends <BR>
to be cheaper (at least on EBay) and has a higher incidence of distinctive <BR>
tracks...<BR>
 -Gladiator soundtrack. 'nuff said.<BR>
 -Myst and Riven (yes, the computer games) both have soundtracks available, <BR>
and Riven is particularly good for tension-building or quietly horrific <BR>
settings.<BR>
 -Delerium's "Semantic Spaces" makes good spaceflight music. So does most of <BR>
"Songs of Distant Earth" by Mike Oldfield, as it is keyed to (and inspired <BR>
by) the Sir Arthur Clarke book of the same name.<BR>
 -racing to make the jump point in time? Try the "Chase" track from the movie <BR>
"Midnight Express"<BR>
 -"Cyberpunk" settings are helped along by the soundtracks to the first two <BR>
or three Bubblegum Crisis OAVs (hard to find now, though), and well as the <BR>
soundtrack to Tank Girl and the Lain: Cyberia Mix CD soundtrack (from Serial <BR>
Experiments Lain; it'll be an import...).<BR>
 -If you aren't docking to an orbital station to the strains of Blue Danube, <BR>
it just ain't right (or you aren't old enough...)<BR>
 -sword (or lightsaber) fights to the Duel of the Fates (from Star Wars I) or <BR>
the Carmina Burana (sp?) are quite appropriate. Other fight music includes <BR>
selected tracks from the real Mortal Combat soundtrack (the one from the <BR>
first movie).<BR>
 -Artillery going nearby? crank up the Anvil Chorus...<BR>
 -Good "stormy" orchestrals on the Dogma soundtrack, but don't pass up the <BR>
"Mooby the Golden Calf" track either...<BR>
 -got a pomp and preposter encounter with the Imperial Navy? Put on the first <BR>
two tracks from the "Hunt for Red October" soundtrack (the two with the <BR>
russian chorus bits...)<BR>
 -just had a dramatic and meaningful death in the party? Play the end theme <BR>
from "Please Save My Earth" (a Japanese series with the distinction of having <BR>
a dubbed version that gets approval from people who *hate* dubbed anime). I'm <BR>
still looking for this on CD, actually.<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:20:25 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
<BR>
Russell Bornschlegel wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> Frankie wrote:<BR>
> > Considering the very boring and depressing nature of the songs, and the<BR>
> > deep, somewhat nasal and atonal, voice used by the singer,<BR>
> > they're trying very hard to be Leonard Cohen, and thus are named<BR>
> > after Cohen's "Sisters of Mercy"<BR>
><BR>
> Aww, come on, there's a huge difference between being influenced<BR>
> by someone and "trying very hard to be" them.<BR>
<BR>
That's true, but I still say they were trying hard to _be_ him, in the same<BR>
way that David Byrne was trying hard to be David Bowie, and Klaus Janson was<BR>
trying hard to be Jack Kirby, neither were exact copies, but it was more<BR>
than just "being influenced".<BR>
<BR>
> > OTOH, he has some good lines, such as<BR>
> ><BR>
> > "I'm guided by a signal in the heavens<BR>
> >  I'm guided by the birth-mark on my skin<BR>
> >  I'm guuided by the beauty of our weapons..."<BR>
> ><BR>
> > You can hang an entire Traveller campaign around those three lines.<BR>
><BR>
> Hmm, between that and some Sisters lyrics and some Iain Banks...<BR>
<BR>
Actually, thinking of such lyrics and David Byrne, anyone remember Talking<BR>
Heads "Life During Wartime" from "Fear of Music" ?<BR>
<BR>
I've always found that good as a background to Traveller or Millennium's End<BR>
games.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:32:48 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
The Roc wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Damn no!  It is shown here on cable - on a channel we do not subscribe to -<BR>
> so we cannot see it.  Having read the review of the movie of the series, it<BR>
> sounded good enough for us to subscribe to watch the movie alone (1.5 hours<BR>
> of computer animated graphics), but one thing lead to another and we failed<BR>
> to subscribe and missed it.  The review, for what it's worth, stated that<BR>
> this movie was absolutely true to the book.<BR>
<BR>
   Starship Troopers the movie? true to the book? gaaaaawwwd what were they<BR>
reading?<BR>
I too eagerly awaited ST as a movie...then I *saw* the movie and almost<BR>
cried...it's 90210 with guns,nukes,ships and bugs...It's crap...<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:26:37 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Andromeda<BR>
<BR>
Vincent Rund wrote :<BR>
> Also,  I as flipping through the channels this morning and came<BR>
> across a "Starship Troopers" cartoon.   The animation had a video <BR>
> game feel and the uniforms and equipment had that gritty, realistic <BR>
> rendering, sort of reminiscent of the marines in "Aliens".  <BR>
> It seemed cool, has anybody else seen a whole episode of this show?<BR>
<BR>
Seen just about the whole series. <BR>
<BR>
I think it's great!<BR>
<BR>
The only drawback IMO is that not enough characters actually die. <BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:35:36 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:<BR>
><BR>
> Your mercenary unit has been hired by an empire on a TL1 balkanized<BR>
> world. They've been expanding over their continent and have conquered a<BR>
> good chunk of it. But there's this one village of "barbarians" still<BR>
> holding out... <eg><BR>
<BR>
Great idea, Leonard !<BR>
<BR>
I'm going to have to run this one sometime, perhaps at the next convention<BR>
we have here.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2001 22:17:45 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Imperial Membership on Balkanised worlds<BR>
<BR>
My take on this is that Imperial policy has been driven for more than a<BR>
thousand years by the imperitive to slow down the rate of growth of the<BR>
Third Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
This is a bit counter-intuitive, but when you think of the history of the<BR>
Ramshackle Empire it makes sense.<BR>
<BR>
Lets zip back to when the Sylean Federation has coalesced into the Third<BR>
Imperium, and the Third Imperium has concluded it's strategic partnership<BR>
with the Vilani remnants on and around Vland.<BR>
<BR>
The nascent Third Imperium is the biggest and meanest economic, cultural and<BR>
military power this side of Terra (and possibly beyond, but they arent<BR>
planning to find out just yet). It can stomp any and all pocket empires in<BR>
their neighbourghood, but doing so too quickly will outrun the ability of<BR>
the structures of the Imperium to successfully absorb the new worlds. Too<BR>
rapid expansion will be asking for seperatism to flourish, leading to a<BR>
civil war, probably followed by disruption, balkanisation and despair.<BR>
<BR>
In short, building the Imperium to last means moving slowly.<BR>
<BR>
Until the Imperium ran into the Antareans and, perhaps, the Zhodani, there<BR>
was no interstellar state that could threaten the Imperium, so they had all<BR>
the time they needed to absorb worlds. They had no good reason to speed<BR>
expansion, and plenty of good reasons not to expand quickly.<BR>
<BR>
Therefore, the Imperial attitude would be 'When in any doubt, dont grant a<BR>
world Imperial membership'. Better a client state and no taxes, than a<BR>
restless world that requires more Imperial resources to secure than it<BR>
provides in taxes - after all, client states still provide revenue through<BR>
Import and Export duties once their goods come into the Imperium. If you<BR>
wait three generations, the world will be subject to a cultural tide of<BR>
Imperial goods, media and thought, and the ruling classes of the world's<BR>
sub-states will become gradually Imperialised. After all, if a younger son<BR>
or daughter wants to live or travel off-world, then taking service with an<BR>
Imperial corporation or joining an Imperial service is the simplest way to<BR>
do so.<BR>
<BR>
That this attitude carried over into the later Imperium is shown by the<BR>
glacial expansion of the Imperium in it's only open frontier - Districts 267<BR>
and 268, on the rimward side of the Spinward Marches. Zhodani diplomatic<BR>
pressure not to formally integrate these regions is especially effective,<BR>
because it is convincing the Imperium to follow it's traditional instincts<BR>
and grow slowly.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 08:13:02 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3137<BR>
<BR>
> ------------------------------<BR>
> <BR>
> Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:09:43 -0700<BR>
> From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
> Subject: Oddballs<BR>
> <BR>
> Well, go and buy Vision Thing by the Sisters, and you can <BR>
> join the club.<BR>
> <BR>
> We meet on Tuesday nites the basement of a garage.<BR>
> <BR>
> Not too many rules.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
The first rule of Sisters Club is you do not talk about Sisters Club <BR>
The second rule of Sisters Club...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:22:00 -0700<BR>
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
It's a very funny parody of a genre and a culture (Xenophobic Sci-Fi and 90210), with awesome special effects. It's up there with Mars Attacks. :-)<BR>
The TV series is a run-of-the-mill projected militaristic fantasy, but you can't win them all.<BR>
<BR>
- - Another Rob.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On Tuesday, October 10, 2000, at 12:32 AM, Robert Houghton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I too eagerly awaited ST as a movie...then I *saw* the movie and almost <BR>
> cried...it's 90210 with guns,nukes,ships and bugs...It's crap... <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 04:40:07 -0700<BR>
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com><BR>
Subject: Re: T5<BR>
<BR>
On Monday, October 9, 2000, at 02:54 PM, SwordWorlder wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> There is a lot more than chargen done and I would encourage you to get the playtest <BR>
> material from Marc if you would seriously like to try it in give him <BR>
> feedback<BR>
<BR>
I'd be seriously interested in doing that. How do I request the materials, just email Far Future?<BR>
<BR>
Is there anywhere I can buy a copy of 4E? I have classic and I'm getting the reprints, but I'd like to look at 4E.<BR>
<BR>
> It was not the grapevine only, but Marc himself who said that M:200 is what <BR>
> he decided to package with the initial offering. Milieu books like M:0 <BR>
> Campaign would be added in popular eras as time passes. A complete, <BR>
> stand-alone game is essential in today's mature market. Gone are the days <BR>
> when a box of pamphlets with rules only can sell a quarter of a million <BR>
> copies ;-) <BR>
<BR>
Well, D&D3E is selling beyond anyone's expectations and, whilst it does use Greyhawk for deities and other background defaults, it leaves the setting open and describes world-building in great detail for the DM. <BR>
Traveller started with the twin offer of one of the very strongest SF settings in any medium and very open rules. It can (must?) still do this. Boxing people in to a single storyline (rebellion, Virus) doesn't have the same appeal as travelling the Imperium searching for adventure.<BR>
I worry about a"historical sci-fi" setting, retreating into the history of the Imperium rather than either fixing the time-line or pushing onwards. Sci-Fi is about what happens next, not what happened some time before. Look at The Phantom Menace.<BR>
<BR>
- - Rob.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:41:01 +0100<BR>
From: "michael.scanlon" <michael.scanlon@bmthonline.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>><BR>
   Starship Troopers the movie? true to the book? gaaaaawwwd what were they<BR>
reading?<BR>
I too eagerly awaited ST as a movie...then I *saw* the movie and almost<BR>
cried...it's 90210 with guns,nukes,ships and bugs...It's crap...<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<<<BR>
I quite liked it, wouldn't mind playing the game. If it's developed in<BR>
virtual reality 3d full visual high resolution graphics mode, if I ever live<BR>
long enough for that sort of thing.<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
Michael.Scanlon@Bmthonline.net<BR>
ICQ#27333894<BR>
<BR>
"Nothing that God of biomechanics wouldn't let you in Heaven for...."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 12:17:12 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Quicktime (was Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Tod Glenn<BR>
> Sent: 10 October 2000 03:15<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Quicktime (was Re: Announcement: the Traveller <BR>
> Radio play)<BR>
> <BR>
> on 10/9/00 6:46 PM, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au at<BR>
> david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> > Tod wrote:<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Quicktime exists on the PC too - is this a genuine <BR>
> cross-platform product?<BR>
> <BR>
> Yes, QuickTime files are platform independent.<BR>
> <BR>
Really? I thought it was PC an Mac only - what else does it run on?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:53:44 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
<BR>
On 10 Oct 2000, at 19:20, Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Actually, thinking of such lyrics and David Byrne, anyone remember Talking<BR>
> Heads "Life During Wartime" from "Fear of Music" ?<BR>
<BR>
Vaguely :)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 09:00:58 -0500<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
    It was true to the book that was written about the movie.  (Big surprise<BR>
there.)<BR>
<BR>
    So far as being true to the Heinlein original, well, it had some similarly<BR>
named characters and situations, and that's about it.  Obviously, the reviewer<BR>
didn't know diddly about the original book.<BR>
<BR>
Robert Houghton wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The Roc wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Damn no!  It is shown here on cable - on a channel we do not subscribe to -<BR>
> > so we cannot see it.  Having read the review of the movie of the series, it<BR>
> > sounded good enough for us to subscribe to watch the movie alone (1.5 hours<BR>
> > of computer animated graphics), but one thing lead to another and we failed<BR>
> > to subscribe and missed it.  The review, for what it's worth, stated that<BR>
> > this movie was absolutely true to the book.<BR>
><BR>
>    Starship Troopers the movie? true to the book? gaaaaawwwd what were they<BR>
> reading?<BR>
> I too eagerly awaited ST as a movie...then I *saw* the movie and almost<BR>
> cried...it's 90210 with guns,nukes,ships and bugs...It's crap...<BR>
><BR>
> Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:09:13 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Imperial membership on Balkanized worlds<BR>
<BR>
Glenn Goffin writes:<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>>This sounds rather messy to me.  Appart from the problems with controlling<BR>
>>trade with the non member parts of the world, how would the Imperium stop<BR>
>>worlds from 'hiding' some of their GDP by becoming balkanized on paper?<BR>
>Once a world is a member of the Imperium, it is extremely difficult for it<BR>
>or any part of it to stop being a part of the Imperium.  The TML has<BR>
>discussed this before.  It basically takes a war.  So if unitary star system<BR>
>A decides to let province 1 secede, the Imperium will treat province 1 as<BR>
>part of the Imperium, establishing diplomatic and tax relationships.  If<BR>
>province 1 does not want to be part of the Imperium, the Imperium will<BR>
>strongly encourage it to change its mind.<BR>
<BR>
        I was thinking along the lines of a world that is about to join the<BR>
Imperium.<BR>
        Perhaps they will elect to remain balkinized (or even arrange to become<BR>
        balkanized) before joining.  At the extreme, two countries can be<BR>
formed:<BR>
        one that has a few square km with the starport and a few thousand people<BR>
        which joins the Imperium, the other being the rest of the planet with<BR>
        billions of people.  Add a very liberal trade agreement with the<BR>
Imperial<BR>
        "country" and it would be a sweet deal for the planet.  Of course,<BR>
the local<BR>
        Imperial noble could veto such a membership, and even if allowed the<BR>
small<BR>
        country might end up exploiting its Imperial membership against the<BR>
large<BR>
        one.  It sounds easier to avoid the whole issue by making Imperial<BR>
        membership an all-or-nothing affair.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2000 07:48:55 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Quicktime<BR>
<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson<BR>
>>Just started listening.  Great stuff.  I've converted the files to<BR>
quicktime<BR>
>>format for Macintosh users, if you're interested.<BR>
><BR>
>Quicktime exists on the PC too - is this a genuine cross-platform product?<BR>
That<BR>
>is, is the PC version of Quicktime able to read a Quicktime file made for<BR>
or on<BR>
>the Mac?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It's extremely cross-platform. Since QT 3.0, they've even been building the<BR>
Mac<BR>
and Windows version from the same source code base, so the feature parity<BR>
is very close from one to the other.<BR>
<BR>
However, it's slightly misleading to say that an audio file is in "Quicktime<BR>
Format"; QT's .MOV files are essentially containers for any kind of<BR>
multimedia<BR>
data. QT is very ambitious in terms of its ability to import and export<BR>
audio files.<BR>
Mac users can launch the QT Player, import a Windows .WAV, listen to it, and<BR>
save it out as a .MOV or an AIFF or probably one of several other formats.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:47:00 -0500<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: Help Needed<BR>
<BR>
Gentlebeings,<BR>
<BR>
Once again, the fact that half my Traveller collection is still in storage<BR>
1,500 km away arises to bit me in the arse. I need to prepare short capsule<BR>
bios of the major nobles in the third imperium, and I need a few helpful<BR>
souls to assist in the research. All I can promise in the way of payment is<BR>
the heartfelt gratitude of the SJ Games  GURPS Traveller Line Manager and a<BR>
copy of the Nobles book after it is printed.<BR>
<BR>
I'll write the stuff, but I need someone to do some basic research for me.<BR>
<BR>
Please e-mail me at lkw@io.com if you are interested.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:34:58 -0500<BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com><BR>
Subject: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
ABC has posted the following on their site:<BR>
<BR>
- -- quote --<BR>
D E S N A   M I L I T A R Y   B A S E, Ukraine, Oct. 9<BR>
<BR>
Ukraine's cash-strapped military has been looking long and hard for fresh<BR>
sources of revenue<BR>
and hit upon a whole new brand of tourism.<BR>
<BR>
In what it says is a first in the former Soviet Union, Ukraine's armed<BR>
forces are throwing<BR>
open 11 military training grounds and three air bases, inviting fee-paying<BR>
tourists, and<BR>
offering them the chance to play soldiers.<BR>
<BR>
From AK-47 assault rifles to T-72 tanks and Mig-29 fighter jets, Ukraine is<BR>
offering anyone<BR>
with money to burn the opportunity to fire, drive and fly the same military<BR>
equipment that<BR>
during the Cold War was on hair-trigger alert for a NATO attack...<BR>
<BR>
- -- end quote --<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: The PCs have been hired by a low-TL world for a cadre ticket. It's<BR>
not until they've<BR>
arrive that they find out just *who* they will be training.<BR>
<BR>
Can you imagine the fun a GM can have with this? <BR>
<BR>
Especially if one of the tourists is..Ditzie?!?  <weg><BR>
<BR>
The full story, BTW, is at:<BR>
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/DailyNews/Ukraine001009.html<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3140<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3141</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	10/10/00 11:12:24 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
From:	owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 11 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3141<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Music to game by<BR>
Re: Old Guys<BR>
Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
Sadistic GMs<BR>
Dark Angel<BR>
Re: Sadistic GMs<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
Re: Quicktime (was Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play)<BR>
Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
Re: Leonard Cohen<BR>
Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
Re: Will Doug rise to the challenge?<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3137<BR>
Re: Help Needed<BR>
Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3137<BR>
Re: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 11:29:12 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Music to game by<BR>
<BR>
For supernatural/horror games, I'd recommend picking up something by Lull. <BR>
This is a side project of former Napalm Death drummer Mick Harris, who mostly<BR>
records as Scorn these days. Scorn is dark techno-ambient; Lull is the same <BR>
thing only incredibly slow-paced. A typical Lull track goes about 20 minutes, <BR>
unearthly, dark, weird, spacey, non-lyrical. I blast it out the door on <BR>
Halloween. <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:04:34 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Old Guys<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 1:08 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Old Guys<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Was written:<BR>
> >> I keep telling y'all that I'm an old guy, so old that the *parents* on<BR>
> >>  "The 70's Show" are closer to my age than the kids.<BR>
> >>  had my first celebrity crush on Haley Mills<BR>
> >Joey Heatherton in my case . . . she's older than me, but who cares?<BR>
> You think you are old!  Mine was Annette, she of the Mouse Ears.<BR>
> >>  watched the original Star Trek in first run,<BR>
> >Same here.<BR>
> Ditto<BR>
> >>  and actually *voted* against Nixon in '72...or was it for him, been so<BR>
> >>  long I've forgotten.<BR>
> >Against in my case . . . my first and my best vote . . .<BR>
> Ditto again I was probably the only person in Onslow County, N.C., the<BR>
well<BR>
> known home of Camp Lejune, who did so.<BR>
> >>  I even remember getting my Draft Lottery Number<BR>
> >>  freshman year in college, and the relief I felt when I came up 315.<BR>
> >196 I think -- missed going to Vietnam by 3 integers<BR>
> Mine was 37, took a deferment, then went ROTC.<BR>
> Dan<BR>
><BR>
Ditto to ALL of the above accept I voted FOR Nixon AND I never got a draft<BR>
notice because I enlisted in the Army at age 17, right out of High School.<BR>
1969, now that was a year that was so good that they made a movie about it!<BR>
Also, I was a Clapton fan when he was with the "Yardbirds" starting in 1964.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 14:18:10 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 9:34 AM<BR>
Subject: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ABC has posted the following on their site:<BR>
><BR>
> -- quote --<BR>
> D E S N A   M I L I T A R Y   B A S E, Ukraine, Oct. 9<BR>
><BR>
[snip]<BR>
<BR>
Hardly surprising.  The Chinese government started doing this about 5 years<BR>
ago, offering paramilitary getaways and shooting vacations for Japanese<BR>
businessmen.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:45:38 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Sadistic GMs<BR>
<BR>
It seems from recent posts that the ultimate goal of the GM is to make the <BR>
players suffer psychologically as much as possible. Since it _is_ October, I <BR>
present to you the following:<BR>
<BR>
I'm planning on playing AD&D (2nd edition) this month, having the players <BR>
create new characters [two each (I only have two players)] and start them on <BR>
a typical, run-of-the-mill, hack'n'slash, kill-'til-you-puke, monty haul <BR>
dungeon adventure.<BR>
<BR>
Then, I'm going to have them sucked through a magic mirror into Ravenloft, <BR>
where one of each player's characters will be promptly killed(!).<BR>
<BR>
Then, their going to find the mayor of the town their in dead and be blamed <BR>
for his murder.<BR>
<BR>
Then they're going to kill him (he's a zombie now, BTW).<BR>
<BR>
Then they're going to meet the vampire who animated his corpse.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, while their on the run from the vampire, they'll be taken back to <BR>
Faerun, where they'll be re-united with their other characters, who've been <BR>
resurrected by the Mists. [I'm going to try to scare my players, but I'm not <BR>
_cruel_ - besides, I want to use the characters again in a Forgotten Realms <BR>
campaign (they'll be back to Ravenloft - trust me)]<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
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http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:07:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
I took a look at the pilot for "Dark Angel" last night. Interesting. A<BR>
sort of "different look" at the whole "super-soldier" bit. <BR>
<BR>
More interesting is the fact that the story could esasily be set at the<BR>
beginning of the Long Night, or in Hard Times. Maybe even on one of the<BR>
worlds that got "brushed" by the Maghiz.<BR>
<BR>
The place is obviously high law level, government type might be 3, or<BR>
maybe 9.<BR>
<BR>
It also has a few neat ideas to swipe. Like the "hover drones". Or the<BR>
big shot who was replacing expensive medicine destined for veterans<BR>
with sugar pills and selling the medicine elsewhere at a huge profit.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:05:13 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Sadistic GMs<BR>
<BR>
James Jensen wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> It seems from recent posts that the ultimate goal of the GM is to make the<BR>
> players suffer psychologically as much as possible. Since it _is_ October, I<BR>
> present to you the following:<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm planning on playing AD&D (2nd edition) this month, having the players<BR>
> create new characters [two each (I only have two players)] and start them on<BR>
> a typical, run-of-the-mill, hack'n'slash, kill-'til-you-puke, monty haul<BR>
> dungeon adventure.<BR>
> <BR>
> Then, I'm going to have them sucked through a magic mirror into Ravenloft,<BR>
> where one of each player's characters will be promptly killed(!).<BR>
> <BR>
> Then, their going to find the mayor of the town their in dead and be blamed<BR>
> for his murder.<BR>
> <BR>
> Then they're going to kill him (he's a zombie now, BTW).<BR>
> <BR>
> Then they're going to meet the vampire who animated his corpse.<BR>
> <BR>
> Finally, while their on the run from the vampire, they'll be taken back to<BR>
> Faerun, where they'll be re-united with their other characters, who've been<BR>
> resurrected by the Mists. [I'm going to try to scare my players, but I'm not<BR>
> _cruel_ - besides, I want to use the characters again in a Forgotten Realms<BR>
> campaign (they'll be back to Ravenloft - trust me)]<BR>
<BR>
Sounds all right, but if you want some _real_ eldritch horror for your<BR>
game, there's only one place to shop:  Call of Cthulhu.  After all,<BR>
intelligent undead, such as vampires, still have ties to what's left of<BR>
their humanity.  Contrast this with weird races with unfathomable<BR>
motives, and secret cults dedicated to serving their alien masters.  And<BR>
the insectoid tittering of their obscene laughter....<BR>
<BR>
Remember:  Campus Crusade for Cthulhu:  If your god's dead, blame mine.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.locksley.com/cthulhu/mainpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  There's always the old "Chtulhuoid races in jumpspace"<BR>
discussion....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:05:48 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> I took a look at the pilot for "Dark Angel" last night. Interesting. A<BR>
>sort of "different look" at the whole "super-soldier" bit. <BR>
<BR>
I heard a complaint (in the L.A. Times, of all places) about an over-similarity between this show and Heinlein's 'Friday.'  Assuming you've read the book, how much similarity is there?  I figure it's easier to ask than to actually bother watching the show...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:16:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson<BR>
><BR>
>> ObTrav:<BR>
>><BR>
>> Your mercenary unit has been hired by an empire on a TL1 balkanized<BR>
>> world. They've been expanding over their continent and have conquered a<BR>
>> good chunk of it. But there's this one village of "barbarians" still<BR>
>> holding out... <eg><BR>
><BR>
> Great idea, Leonard !<BR>
><BR>
> I'm going to have to run this one sometime, perhaps at the next convention<BR>
> we have here.<BR>
<BR>
Shades of "Sturmegeshutz and Sorcery"!<BR>
<BR>
Are you aware that there's an Asterix *game*? I got given a copy by a<BR>
friend for Christmas many years back. I've never played it. In fact,<BR>
I'm not sure if I've even read the rules. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 10:44:12 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Quicktime (was Re: Announcement: the Traveller Radio play)<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> Tod wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Just started listening.  Great stuff.  I've converted the files to quicktime<BR>
> >format for Macintosh users, if you're interested.<BR>
> <BR>
> Quicktime exists on the PC too - is this a genuine cross-platform product? That<BR>
> is, is the PC version of Quicktime able to read a Quicktime file made for or on<BR>
> the Mac?<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm just interested, really. I first wondered about this when Myst and Riven<BR>
> talked about supporting both platforms.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, as of version 3, iirc, the file formats (principally .mov files)<BR>
for both the PC and Mac versions were the same, prior to that you had to<BR>
'flatten' a Mac .mov to play it on a PC. As of version 4 QT has mutated<BR>
into a general purpose media player, and most file formats are supported<BR>
transparently.<BR>
 <BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:33:57 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Leonard evilly schemed:<BR>
>> Better yet I also came up with the book reprinting... [snip] some Asterix<BR>
books.<BR>
><BR>
>Your mercenary unit has been hired by an empire on a TL1 balkanized<BR>
>world. They've been expanding over their continent and have conquered a<BR>
>good chunk of it. But there's this one village of "barbarians" still<BR>
>holding out... <eg><BR>
<BR>
...thus you'll eventually find out about their souped-up (pun intended) version<BR>
of Combat + Slow Drug...<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 17:41:56 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
trentfs@ix.netcom.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> > I took a look at the pilot for "Dark Angel" last night. Interesting. A<BR>
> >sort of "different look" at the whole "super-soldier" bit. <BR>
> <BR>
> I heard a complaint (in the L.A. Times, of all places) about an<BR>
> over-similarity between this show and Heinlein's 'Friday.'  Assuming you've read the book, how much similarity is there?  I figure it's easier to ask than to actually bother watching the show... <BR>
<BR>
Shrug.  Near-future with a sexy female lead?  Both are rather superficial<BR>
stories in general?  I wouldn't call them all that similar otherwise.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:14:37<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Horse nomenclature<BR>
<BR>
At 10:55 PM 10/8/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>We toss around 'keyboard kill' a lot on this list, but that one actually<BR>
>swear-to-god led to several drops of 7-up landing on my keyboard.  I<BR>
>thought *I* was the one who had to deal with markteting execs...<BR>
<BR>
I used to be a security guard in Hewlett-Packard's SPF building, which<BR>
housed their marketing team.  Lot of fun reading what they left on the<BR>
whiteboards.  Made mil-speak sound like Shakespear.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:17:09<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Leonard Cohen<BR>
<BR>
At 10:33 AM 10/9/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>:) Yeah, that song always gives me goosebumps.  It's also one of my<BR>
>ten-year-old daughter's favorite songs (we're starting to call her<BR>
>"Ditzie").  It's a weird experience to hear her reedy but enthusiastic<BR>
>voice hammering out "First we take Manhattan, then we take Berlin!" when<BR>
>we listen to that album.<BR>
<BR>
OK, we're even now.  I just spit up a mouthful of Coke onto my Squirtle,<BR>
two penguins, and my jury summons.<BR>
<BR>
The image of Lenore singing that line.. LOL!!!!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:24:47<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Best Smelling RPG<BR>
<BR>
At 02:09 PM 10/8/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>
>This person needs serious help ...<BR>
<BR>
You don't know the half of it.  In high school, I was such a fanatic that<BR>
there is one person who still calls me "the Traveller dude."  He could<BR>
remember my name, but I always had at least one Traveller book.<BR>
<BR>
When I enlisted, some family members actually accused me of trying to live<BR>
out a Traveller game.  (Silly family, if that was the case, I would have<BR>
joined the Scouts.. )<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:27:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Will Doug rise to the challenge?<BR>
<BR>
At 09:58 AM 10/9/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>Craig Berry writes:<BR>
>>P.S. - Yes, I've been a Goth on occasion.  But thank god there are no<BR>
>>        pictures. :)<BR>
><BR>
>Doug?  I know that my brother would be out buying photoshop (or downloading <BR>
>GIMP) when faced with this challenge.<BR>
<BR>
I can do better.. I have pictures of Craig when he was a Cub Scout.  :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 20:01:59 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3137<BR>
<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Well, go and buy Vision Thing by the Sisters, and you can <BR>
>> join the club.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> We meet on Tuesday nites the basement of a garage.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Not too many rules.<BR>
>> <BR>
<BR>
>The first rule of Sisters Club is you do not talk about Sisters Club <BR>
>The second rule of Sisters Club...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Is EVERYONE listens to sisters.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:03:30 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Help Needed<BR>
<BR>
Hiya.<BR>
<BR>
Here's something I made a little while ago that might<BR>
be helpful.  I tried to put together the Alkhalikoi dynasty<BR>
as well as I could, and a list of named nobles.  But my<BR>
library is similarly limited.<BR>
<BR>
http://portcaddo.com/bloo/traveller/3iherald.html<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
(steve daniels)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Gentlebeings,<BR>
><BR>
> Once again, the fact that half my Traveller collection is still in storage<BR>
> 1,500 km away arises to bit me in the arse. I need to prepare short capsule<BR>
> bios of the major nobles in the third imperium, and I need a few helpful<BR>
> souls to assist in the research. All I can promise in the way of payment is<BR>
> the heartfelt gratitude of the SJ Games  GURPS Traveller Line Manager and a<BR>
> copy of the Nobles book after it is printed.<BR>
><BR>
> I'll write the stuff, but I need someone to do some basic research for me.<BR>
><BR>
> Please e-mail me at lkw@io.com if you are interested.<BR>
><BR>
> Loren Wiseman<BR>
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
>      SJ Games<BR>
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:14:40 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
Next door in Russia, they've been funding selling<BR>
rides on Migs for at least 3 years.  Some significant<BR>
insurance waivers are involved because the Russian<BR>
Air Force pilots have a particularly risky manuever<BR>
called the "Cobra".  It's scary to watch.  And actually<BR>
more scary the more you know about planes.  US<BR>
military pilots aren't even allowed to practice this<BR>
manuever, but you can pay your US$5000 and do<BR>
it in Russia.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Smart, David J (David)" wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> ABC has posted the following on their site:<BR>
><BR>
> -- quote --<BR>
> D E S N A   M I L I T A R Y   B A S E, Ukraine, Oct. 9<BR>
><BR>
> Ukraine's cash-strapped military has been looking long and hard for fresh<BR>
> sources of revenue<BR>
> and hit upon a whole new brand of tourism.<BR>
><BR>
> In what it says is a first in the former Soviet Union, Ukraine's armed<BR>
> forces are throwing<BR>
> open 11 military training grounds and three air bases, inviting fee-paying<BR>
> tourists, and<BR>
> offering them the chance to play soldiers.<BR>
><BR>
> >From AK-47 assault rifles to T-72 tanks and Mig-29 fighter jets, Ukraine is<BR>
> offering anyone<BR>
> with money to burn the opportunity to fire, drive and fly the same military<BR>
> equipment that<BR>
> during the Cold War was on hair-trigger alert for a NATO attack...<BR>
><BR>
> -- end quote --<BR>
><BR>
> ObTrav: The PCs have been hired by a low-TL world for a cadre ticket. It's<BR>
> not until they've<BR>
> arrive that they find out just *who* they will be training.<BR>
><BR>
> Can you imagine the fun a GM can have with this?<BR>
><BR>
> Especially if one of the tourists is..Ditzie?!?  <weg><BR>
><BR>
> The full story, BTW, is at:<BR>
> http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/DailyNews/Ukraine001009.html<BR>
><BR>
> David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 22:16:10 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
I can't recall off hand where I saw it, but submarines<BR>
are around the corner.  Although, I saw the rumblings<BR>
of this pre-Kursk, so it might be a while longer before<BR>
this is available.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:29:57 +1100 (EST)<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= <ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: TNE meson gun info needed<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat,  7 Oct 2000 12:46:10 -0500<BR>
On Sat,  7 Oct 2000 12:46:10 -0500 "Brandon Cope"<BR>
<copeab@mail.elc.net> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >The TL-12 1000 Mj Meson Gun listed in Brilliant Lances is 1730m,<BR>
is<BR>
> >144 meters long, weighs 1586 tons and costs MCr147.01.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >The next biggest size up is the TL-14 2000 Mj Meson Gun.  It is<BR>
2237m,<BR>
> >is 90 meters long, weighs 1883 tonnes, and costs MCr185.81.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >If you can wait two weeks until I'm back from my AT, I can design<BR>
you a<BR>
> >TL-12 2250 Mj Meson Gun -- just let me know how long a tunnel you<BR>
need.<BR>
><BR>
> I was going to redesign the Aurora and Maggart-class clippers for<BR>
GURPS<BR>
> Traveller, and I needed some idea of how much space the spinal<BR>
mounts took up (and<BR>
> so I could perhaps try to recreate them for GURPS Traveller).<BR>
<BR>
If you still want something done, I have a spreadsheet set up using<BR>
GT and GURPS Vehicles rules to design beam weapons of all sizes for<BR>
GURPS Traveller, and would be happy try converting them for you. Let<BR>
me know if you're interested.<BR>
<BR>
Regards,<BR>
Craig.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
=====<BR>
<ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au>  <craig_barnett@iname.com><BR>
Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller<BR>
<BR>
_____________________________________________________________________________<BR>
http://clubs.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Clubs<BR>
- - Join a club or build your own!<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:49:18 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 5:32:pm<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> The Roc wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> > Damn no!  It is shown here on cable - on a channel we do not subscribe<BR>
to -<BR>
> > so we cannot see it.  Having read the review of the movie of the series,<BR>
it<BR>
> > sounded good enough for us to subscribe to watch the movie alone (1.5<BR>
hours<BR>
> > of computer animated graphics), but one thing lead to another and we<BR>
failed<BR>
> > to subscribe and missed it.  The review, for what it's worth, stated<BR>
that<BR>
> > this movie was absolutely true to the book.<BR>
><BR>
>    Starship Troopers the movie? true to the book? gaaaaawwwd what were<BR>
they<BR>
> reading?<BR>
> I too eagerly awaited ST as a movie...then I *saw* the movie and almost<BR>
> cried...it's 90210 with guns,nukes,ships and bugs...It's crap...<BR>
><BR>
> Other Rob<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I refer to the review of the computer animated TV series, not the big screen<BR>
movie version.  However, not being able to see the computer animated TV<BR>
movie, I am unable to offer any advice on exactly how true to the book this<BR>
movie is??<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 06:33:16 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3137<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Tsykoduk [mailto:Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com]<BR>
> Sent: 11 October 2000 04:02<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3137<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> Well, go and buy Vision Thing by the Sisters, and you can <BR>
> >> join the club.<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> We meet on Tuesday nites the basement of a garage.<BR>
> >> <BR>
> >> Not too many rules.<BR>
> >> <BR>
> <BR>
> >The first rule of Sisters Club is you do not talk about Sisters Club <BR>
> >The second rule of Sisters Club...<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Is EVERYONE listens to sisters.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
No, the second rule of Sister Club is YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT SISTERS CLUB :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:49:40 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi><BR>
Subject: Re: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 9 Oct 2000, Russell Bornschlegel wrote:<BR>
> Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
> > Oh, so they are Brauhaus wannabes?<BR>
> Nope. Eldritch claims to really not like the "goth" identification. Boy <BR>
> could try wearing some bright colors and get rid of the mirrorshades if<BR>
> he really felt that way, though. <BR>
<BR>
Well, as I said in an earlier post, he has changed his style somewhat.<BR>
Go and visit a concert.<BR>
<BR>
You know, the pictures on your album covers don't change. B-)<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: How much would entertainment be traded between systems?<BR>
I could imagine that entertainment could be valued in nearby systems, <BR>
but are there artists or styles known through the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
As I like 3I, about 1111, and I have my opinion, I would like to hear how<BR>
it is IYTU.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----<BR>
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<---><BR>
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->><BR>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:54:09 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>
From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Robert Houghton wrote:<BR>
>    Starship Troopers the movie? true to the book? gaaaaawwwd what were they<BR>
> reading?<BR>
<BR>
Probably ST while under influence.<BR>
<BR>
> I too eagerly awaited ST as a movie...then I *saw* the movie and almost<BR>
> cried...it's 90210 with guns,nukes,ships and bugs...It's crap...<BR>
<BR>
I awaited it too -- and liked it. Not as a book-made-film, but as a<BR>
hilarious bashing of militaristic attitude. <BR>
<BR>
After the movie I read the book. While I like Heinlein's writing, the<BR>
facism was too much for me. I could still understand while some citizens<BR>
of USA like him, though. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
+++++++++[>+++++++++<-]>-.<+++++[>+++<-]++>++.<++[>++++<-]+>+.<++[>----<BR>
<-]>-.>+++[>++++++++++<-]++>++pare@iki.fi<+[>++++<-]>+.->+[>++++[<<---><BR>
>-]<-]<.>>+++++++[<++++++++++>-]++++[<+++++>-]<-.>[-]>+++[>++[<<<---->><BR>
<>>-]<-]<<.+.>[-]++[<++>-]<.++.[-]>[-]++++[<++>-]<++.>>++[>++[>-<-]<--]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:00:44 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
> >> Your mercenary unit has been hired by an empire on a TL1 balkanized<BR>
> >> world. They've been expanding over their continent and have conquered a<BR>
> >> good chunk of it. But there's this one village of "barbarians" still<BR>
> >> holding out... <eg><BR>
> ><BR>
> > Great idea, Leonard !<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I'm going to have to run this one sometime, perhaps at the next<BR>
> > convention<BR>
> > we have here.<BR>
><BR>
> Shades of "Sturmegeshutz and Sorcery"!<BR>
><BR>
> Are you aware that there's an Asterix *game*? I got given a copy by a<BR>
> friend for Christmas many years back. I've never played it. In fact,<BR>
> I'm not sure if I've even read the rules.<BR>
<BR>
I've seen an Asterix board ganme and a "dice" game (like Dragon Dice), but I<BR>
haven't seen an RPG.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not hugely surprised there is one though, there are all sorts of comics<BR>
with RPGs, I was surprised when I saw the Tank Girl RPG, elated when I saw<BR>
the Ironwood RPG, and the one I'm really dissappointed didn't make it was<BR>
James Wallis' Bugtown RPG.<BR>
<BR>
As Asterix is far more mainstream than the above, it seems pretty likely<BR>
someone somewhere did one !<BR>
<BR>
Is it French ?<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3141<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 11 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3142<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
off-topic games<BR>
so  it goes<BR>
Goth Cub Scouts<BR>
RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
RE: Sadistic GMs<BR>
Re: Imperial Membership on Balkanised worlds<BR>
Drowning Wave<BR>
Re: Attitude control<BR>
Re: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
Re: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: off-topic games<BR>
RE: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
RE: Body Mods (was off-topic games)<BR>
Dresden?<BR>
Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
Re: Dresden?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:30:04 -0700<BR>
From: "fadetozero" <bempath@iserv.net><BR>
Subject: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
i guess i wish this discussion group stayed a bit more on topic...<BR>
<BR>
i also play AD&D, and CoC, but i'm in here for the discussion of Traveller,<BR>
after all...<BR>
<BR>
mind u, there's nothing wrong with off-topic discussions...i prefer topical,<BR>
but i'm always taking notes...;-)<BR>
<BR>
fadetozero<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:38:39 -0700<BR>
From: "fadetozero" <bempath@iserv.net><BR>
Subject: so  it goes<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
let's say hypothetically that your old address is within the range of the<BR>
vehicle i can borrow to retrieve the stuff and make sure it gets to u...and<BR>
let's furthermore imagine that i could retrieve it and get it to u<BR>
posthaste...<BR>
<BR>
my schedule is semi-flexible, and i think i can borrow vehicles...<BR>
<BR>
(and people are critical of restaurant workers...geez....;-)...)<BR>
<BR>
just a possibility....i'm in it for the fun, after all.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 23:42:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Goth Cub Scouts<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 19:27:12<BR>
> From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >Craig Berry writes:<BR>
> >>P.S. - Yes, I've been a Goth on occasion.  But thank god there are no<BR>
> >>        pictures. :)<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Doug?  I know that my brother would be out buying photoshop (or downloading <BR>
> >GIMP) when faced with this challenge.<BR>
> <BR>
> I can do better.. I have pictures of Craig when he was a Cub Scout.  :)<BR>
<BR>
So I get to see what I would have looked like as a Cub Goth?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:04:51 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
Stormhound wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> So far as being true to the Heinlein original, well, it had<BR>
> some similarly named characters and situations, and that's<BR>
> about it.  Obviously, the reviewer<BR>
> didn't know diddly about the original book.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'm not that reviewer, I do know more than diddley about the book, and<BR>
I agree with the stated opinion of the reviewer. I think the film was a very<BR>
good rendition of the book.<BR>
<BR>
While it was obvious Verhoeven(sp?) _tried_ to make it show the book in a<BR>
bad light, it actually captured the feel of the basic premise of the book<BR>
 a gung ho, Boy's Own, romp through the alien nasties) perfectly.<BR>
<BR>
See, Heinlien was well aware that the culture he portrayed in Troopers had<BR>
fascist overtones, and it seems Verhoven wasn't aware of _that_ fact. The<BR>
point was that this is what happens to any culture involved in a war for<BR>
survival, at the begining of the book the culture is very much non-facist,<BR>
in fact it's the reverse of fascism, it's Heinlien's standard libertarian<BR>
paradise. By the end of the book, it has changed.<BR>
<BR>
It pretty much represents Heinlien's opinion of the changes to America over<BR>
two World Wars, from the freedom of the late 1800's to the control of the<BR>
1950's.<BR>
<BR>
Paul Verhoeven actuilly has more in common with Robert Heinlien than he<BR>
would like to think.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 00:06:05 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" <mvparvia@cc.hut.fi><BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Robert Houghton wrote:<BR>
> >    Starship Troopers the movie? true to the book? gaaaaawwwd <BR>
>> what were they reading?<BR>
> <BR>
> Probably ST while under influence.<BR>
> <BR>
> > I too eagerly awaited ST as a movie...then I *saw* the movie > <BR>
> and almost cried...it's 90210 with guns,nukes,ships and <BR>
> > bugs...It's crap...<BR>
> <BR>
> I awaited it too -- and liked it. Not as a book-made-film, but as a<BR>
> hilarious bashing of militaristic attitude. <BR>
<BR>
I actually also saw it as a wonderful satire of the book, and of the <BR>
attitudes behind the book.  Then again, IIRC, Verhoven fled the <BR>
Nazi, so he knows rather more about fascism than most folks in <BR>
the US.<BR>
 <BR>
> After the movie I read the book. While I like Heinlein's writing, the<BR>
> facism was too much for me. I could still understand while some<BR>
> citizens of USA like him, though.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps, but some of us (like me) in the US feel exactly as you do <BR>
about the book and the movie.  We're not all as crazed and violent <BR>
as most Europeans think us. <BR>
<BR>
Getting back on topic a bit, I also saw the pilot for Andromeda, and <BR>
while it was *far* from good, it did look rather fun and I too was <BR>
surprised at the numerous Traveller references.  No much <BR>
Travellerish about the tech though, 1,000 G anti-matter drives <BR>
seemed to be order of the day (of course they also seem to have <BR>
lost the idea of measles immunization...).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 03:10:17 EDT<BR>
From: RBasler1@aol.com<BR>
Subject: RE: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/10/00 9:52:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<< From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
 Subject: RE: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
 <BR>
 <BR>
 Actually, thinking of such lyrics and David Byrne, anyone remember Talking<BR>
 Heads "Life During Wartime" from "Fear of Music" ?<BR>
 <BR>
 I've always found that good as a background to Traveller or Millennium's End<BR>
 games.<BR>
  >><BR>
<BR>
    Oddly enough, I was just listening to that today - I love that song.<BR>
<BR>
    Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:25:39 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Sadistic GMs<BR>
<BR>
To misquote Brandon Cope: 'If you're gonna be sadistic, be generous too!'<BR>
<BR>
OK he never said that, as far as I know, but good advice none-the-less.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: James Jensen [mailto:cheeb0@hotmail.com]<BR>
> Sent: 10 October 2000 22:46<BR>
> To: traveller@ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Sadistic GMs<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> It seems from recent posts that the ultimate goal of the GM <BR>
> is to make the <BR>
> players suffer psychologically as much as possible. Since it <BR>
> _is_ October, I <BR>
> present to you the following:<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm planning on playing AD&D (2nd edition) this month, having <BR>
> the players <BR>
> create new characters [two each (I only have two players)] <BR>
> and start them on <BR>
> a typical, run-of-the-mill, hack'n'slash, kill-'til-you-puke, <BR>
> monty haul <BR>
> dungeon adventure.<BR>
> <BR>
> Then, I'm going to have them sucked through a magic mirror <BR>
> into Ravenloft, <BR>
> where one of each player's characters will be promptly killed(!).<BR>
> <BR>
> Then, their going to find the mayor of the town their in dead <BR>
> and be blamed <BR>
> for his murder.<BR>
> <BR>
> Then they're going to kill him (he's a zombie now, BTW).<BR>
> <BR>
> Then they're going to meet the vampire who animated his corpse.<BR>
> <BR>
> Finally, while their on the run from the vampire, they'll be <BR>
> taken back to <BR>
> Faerun, where they'll be re-united with their other <BR>
> characters, who've been <BR>
> resurrected by the Mists. [I'm going to try to scare my <BR>
> players, but I'm not <BR>
> _cruel_ - besides, I want to use the characters again in a <BR>
> Forgotten Realms <BR>
> campaign (they'll be back to Ravenloft - trust me)]<BR>
> <BR>
> -J. Jensen<BR>
> ______________________________________________________________<BR>
> ___________<BR>
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at <BR>
http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:22:21 +0200<BR>
From: Volker Greimann <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Imperial Membership on Balkanised worlds<BR>
<BR>
At 22:17 29.09.01 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
(Snip)<BR>
<BR>
Wow, a Mail from the future...<BR>
Tell me what its going to be like in a year. Will T5 be out, will there be <BR>
more Flame-Wars about pirates, near-c rocks or the morality of warfare? Can <BR>
you tell me the winning lottery numbers for next week?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:08:57 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: Drowning Wave<BR>
<BR>
http://www.newscientist.com/features/features.jsp?id=ns225915<BR>
<BR>
Check this out. I don't think we need to stretch our imaginations too much<BR>
for an Ob-Trav :)<BR>
Good luck, north America.<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:23:06 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Attitude control<BR>
<BR>
Antony Farrell wrote:<BR>
> Perhaps they also worked on the mars probe, you know the one with the mixed<BR>
> metric and imperial measuring systems. Perhaps we should have a whip round<BR>
> and get them a copy of FFS (any version).<BR>
<BR>
Probably not a good idea... Imagine the following dialogue between a<BR>
supervisor and a NASA engineer:<BR>
<BR>
"And this antenna here... what does it do?"<BR>
<BR>
"It's a laser."<BR>
<BR>
"Why? We are going to measure the atmospheric contents of Jupiter. Why<BR>
would we want a laser?"<BR>
<BR>
"To defend ourselves against a possible blockade."<BR>
<BR>
"I beg your pardon? Blockade? By whom? Space aliens?"<BR>
<BR>
"Ahem... yes."<BR>
<BR>
"Who wrote the ####### design specification anyway? It seems as if I'm<BR>
working with pre-teens here."<BR>
<BR>
"Ahem... well... you see... you are."<BR>
<BR>
"WHAT?!?!"<BR>
<BR>
"Hi. I'm Ditzie."<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:39:27 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
<BR>
"Mikko V. I. Parviainen" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> ObTrav: How much would entertainment be traded between systems?<BR>
> I could imagine that entertainment could be valued in nearby systems,<BR>
> but are there artists or styles known through the Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'd say that Veedback is probably known throughout the Imperium<BR>
(and beyond).<BR>
<BR>
(I refer readers to the 3 October 2000 edition of JTAS for details.)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:42:56 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
<BR>
RBasler1@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 10/10/00 9:52:01 AM Pacific Daylight Time,<BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> << From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
>  Subject: RE: Sisters of Mercy<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
>  Actually, thinking of such lyrics and David Byrne, anyone remember Talking<BR>
>  Heads "Life During Wartime" from "Fear of Music" ?<BR>
> <BR>
>  I've always found that good as a background to Traveller or Millennium's End<BR>
>  games.<BR>
>   >><BR>
> <BR>
>     Oddly enough, I was just listening to that today - I love that song.<BR>
<BR>
I refer followers of this thread to Doug's Traveller Filks page,<BR>
specifically:<BR>
<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/wartime.html<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:59:04 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/11/00 2:13:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
mvparvia@cc.hut.fi writes:<BR>
<BR>
> After the movie I read the book. While I like Heinlein's writing, the<BR>
>  facism was too much for me. I could still understand while some citizens<BR>
>  of USA like him, though. <BR>
<BR>
Not exactly the most subtle of insults.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:10:51 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 10/11/00 2:13:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
> mvparvia@cc.hut.fi writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > After the movie I read the book. While I like Heinlein's <BR>
> writing, the<BR>
> >  facism was too much for me. I could still understand while <BR>
> some citizens<BR>
> >  of USA like him, though. <BR>
> <BR>
> Not exactly the most subtle of insults.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<--keyboard kill<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:19:00 +0100<BR>
From: Rob Myers <robm@h2g2.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
On Wednesday, October 11, 2000, at 01:59 PM, JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 10/11/00 2:13:41 AM Eastern Daylight Time,  <BR>
> mvparvia@cc.hut.fi writes: <BR>
>  <BR>
> > After the movie I read the book. While I like Heinlein's writing, the <BR>
> >  facism was too much for me. I could still understand while some citizens <BR>
> >  of USA like him, though.  <BR>
>  <BR>
> Not exactly the most subtle of insults. <BR>
<BR>
I wouldn't take Americans liking an author as an insult to their work. Quite the opposite, in fact. :-)<BR>
<BR>
So: Solomani versus Starship Troopers. Who would win? :-)<BR>
<BR>
- - Rob.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 07:21:45 -0700<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
At 02:30 AM 10/11/00 -0700, fadetozero wrote:<BR>
>i guess i wish this discussion group stayed a bit more on topic...<BR>
><BR>
>i also play AD&D, and CoC, but i'm in here for the discussion of Traveller,<BR>
>after all...<BR>
><BR>
>mind u, there's nothing wrong with off-topic discussions...i prefer topical,<BR>
>but i'm always taking notes...;-)<BR>
><BR>
>fadetozero<BR>
<BR>
Sarcasm mode on.<BR>
<BR>
Yes but... 20th century British Goth rock groups are so Traveller... as are<BR>
movie and cartoon reviews... simply bolt on an 'about Trav.' blurb at the<BR>
end and anything goes. Take for instance an issue that simply begs to be<BR>
talked to death by this group - body oder - now, I prefer dry-stick<BR>
roll-ons, and detest people who use anything else... <snip 14 paragraphs<BR>
that delve into the pros and cons of anti-deodorant products and the people<BR>
who use them>. 'About Traveller' (you know - the real reason some of<BR>
subscribe to this list): Gee... I wonder what brand of deodorant Norris<BR>
uses? I ask because this burning issue comes up every time our gaming group<BR>
meets.<BR>
<BR>
Sarcasm mode off.<BR>
<BR>
L8r,<BR>
Paul<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:28:13 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
J. Paul Sanders wrote:<BR>
> Gee... I wonder what brand of deodorant Norris uses? I ask<BR>
> because this burning issue comes up every time our gaming group<BR>
> meets.<BR>
<BR>
There's two ways to go with this:<BR>
<BR>
1) The current 'Western' abhorance to  bodily  functions  is  not<BR>
   much more than a fad  that  will  not  survive  into  the  far<BR>
   future.  Remember that Napoleon just to order Josephine not to<BR>
   wash for a few days before he returned to her  'cos  he  liked<BR>
   her ... "a bit ripe".  Norris may wash daily  but  not  use  a<BR>
   deodorant.<BR>
<BR>
2) Alternatively, attitudues in  the  mainstream  of  3I  culture<BR>
   remain similar.  But sprays and stick deodorants are  too  low<BR>
   tech.  BO is produced not by the body  but  by  bacteria  that<BR>
   live on the skin.  Perhaps there'll be an  anti-BO  pill  that<BR>
   Norris takes once a month (a bit like current anti-flea  pills<BR>
   for cats and dogs).  This pill would cause the sweat glands to<BR>
   include a mild anti-bacterial agent in their secretions.  Thus<BR>
   no BO, therefore no deodorant.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:51:38 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
> > > After the movie I read the book. While I like Heinlein's writing, the<BR>
> > >  facism was too much for me. I could still understand while some<BR>
citizens<BR>
> > >  of USA like him, though.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Not exactly the most subtle of insults.<BR>
><BR>
> I wouldn't take Americans liking an author as an insult to their work.<BR>
Quite the opposite, in fact. :-)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
And recall that Starship Troopers has been translaed into dozens of<BR>
languages and sold well in many countries.  One could hardly say that<BR>
Starship Troopers popularity is merely and American phenomenon.<BR>
<BR>
> So: Solomani versus Starship Troopers. Who would win? :-)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I suppose it depends on how one views the Solomani.  Starship Troopers is<BR>
definitely a '50s' piece.  Heinlein couldn't forsee the kind of technology<BR>
that would emerge later, and could easily be implemented by the Sollies.<BR>
Let's take the hardware of ST and add the biological knowhow of the rim.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:59:04 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
> There's two ways to go with this:<BR>
><BR>
> 1) The current 'Western' abhorance to  bodily  functions  is  not<BR>
>    much more than a fad  that  will  not  survive  into  the  far<BR>
>    future.  Remember that Napoleon just to order Josephine not to<BR>
>    wash for a few days before he returned to her  'cos  he  liked<BR>
>    her ... "a bit ripe".  Norris may wash daily  but  not  use  a<BR>
>    deodorant.<BR>
<BR>
True.  Perhaps perfume is back in fashion for men.  For all we know, makeup<BR>
is all the rage, too.  A few thousand years and the culture will probably be<BR>
completely unrecognizable.  Just look at the nutty fads that have appeared<BR>
in the last decade.  We used to think that long hair was radical.  Now we<BR>
have tatoos and body piercings, not to mention branding and scarification.<BR>
<BR>
I shudder to think what a few thousand years will bring.  Maybe geneered<BR>
personal odors, bioosculpted bodies -- not just prettified but really alien<BR>
stuff. Care for an extra arm? It's all the rage now in the Marches.  Fangs<BR>
are so passe. Pointed ears? Dorsal fin?  Fur? Blue skin? Peacock feathers?<BR>
<BR>
I really would rather not think about it.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 08:58:48 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> I took a look at the pilot for "Dark Angel" last night. Interesting. A<BR>
>>sort of "different look" at the whole "super-soldier" bit. <BR>
><BR>
> I heard a complaint (in the L.A. Times, of all places) about an <BR>
> over-similarity between this show and Heinlein's 'Friday.'  Assuming you've <BR>
> read the book, how much similarity is there?  I figure it's easier to ask <BR>
> than to actually bother watching the show<BR>
> ...<BR>
<BR>
The only similarity is that that both women are the product of some<BR>
genetic manipulation. In Friday's case, they weren't trying to produce<BR>
a "superhuman", mostly just get around the fact that her parents genes<BR>
weren't very compatible. Max has non-human genes, for example, last<BR>
night they mentioned some feline genes (which have the side effect of<BR>
producing something like "heat" a few times a year :-)<BR>
<BR>
Friday was taken and raised to be a sex toy. Max was being raised to be<BR>
a super soldier (and in a particularly *stupid* way). <BR>
<BR>
Friday worked as a *secret* courier and a few times as an agent. Max<BR>
works as a bike messenger, and cat burglar. Max also does some<BR>
freelance stuff for a guy who is digging up info on the other children<BR>
who escaped from the facility where they were being trained. I can see<BR>
*slight* resemblances between him and "Kettle Belly"...<BR>
<BR>
In short, the complainant is an idiot.<BR>
<BR>
I never even *thought* of Friday while watching the show.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:10:25 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Body Mods (was off-topic games)<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > There's two ways to go with this:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > 1) The current 'Western' abhorance to  bodily  functions  is  not<BR>
> >    much more than a fad  that  will  not  survive  into  the  far<BR>
> >    future.  Remember that Napoleon just to order Josephine not to<BR>
> >    wash for a few days before he returned to her  'cos  he  liked<BR>
> >    her ... "a bit ripe".  Norris may wash daily  but  not  use  a<BR>
> >    deodorant.<BR>
> <BR>
> True.  Perhaps perfume is back in fashion for men.  For all <BR>
> we know, makeup<BR>
> is all the rage, too.  A few thousand years and the culture <BR>
> will probably be<BR>
> completely unrecognizable.  Just look at the nutty fads that <BR>
> have appeared<BR>
> in the last decade.  We used to think that long hair was <BR>
> radical.  Now we<BR>
> have tatoos and body piercings, not to mention branding and <BR>
> scarification.<BR>
> <BR>
> I shudder to think what a few thousand years will bring.  <BR>
> Maybe geneered<BR>
> personal odors, bioosculpted bodies -- not just prettified <BR>
> but really alien<BR>
> stuff. Care for an extra arm? It's all the rage now in the <BR>
> Marches.  Fangs<BR>
> are so passe. Pointed ears? Dorsal fin?  Fur? Blue skin? <BR>
> Peacock feathers?<BR>
> <BR>
> I really would rather not think about it.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I figure in the Traveller Universe Imperial citizens have the same attitude<BR>
to this as they do to cybernetics...distate at the dehumanising effects of<BR>
voluntary mutilation (of course, for a society that comprises 11,000 stellar<BR>
system that maybe a _bit_ of a generalisation). Gosh, those Impies are a big<BR>
old bunch of stick-in-the-muds, aren't they? :) As always, YMMV. <BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
PS. Sorry Paul, looks like yet another throwaway comment about something<BR>
trivial has become a discussion thread.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:38:09 -0500<BR>
From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
Subject: Dresden?<BR>
<BR>
Gentles,<BR>
<BR>
Varian and Lucan are sons of Strephon's sister Lydia, who married Duke<BR>
Dresden. Is there a world called Dresden someplace in the Imperium? Are<BR>
there any other mentions of the twin's parents anyplace?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman<BR>
     Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
     Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society  http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
     SJ Games<BR>
     lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
     (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
     (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:54:54 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
<BR>
>From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
>Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
><BR>
>Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> When the<BR>
>> spirit was to make its appearance, I blew out the candle, quickly picked<BR>
up<BR>
>> the hidden microphone, and my voice, speaking as the spirit, was run<BR>
through<BR>
>> a distortion pedal and into a speaker _behind_ the players (I had hidden<BR>
the<BR>
>> amp and cables earlier that evening before the game started.  The players<BR>
>> nearly clawed their way out of the living room.  Two of them had<BR>
nightmares<BR>
>> for weeks.  As a GM..I think I did my job.  <smug grin><BR>
><BR>
>Just out of curiosity, how did you get the stains out of the couch? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
	The best way of all:  it wasn't my living room ;o)  (It was<BR>
difficult to sneak in while everyone else was in the other room so I could<BR>
run the cables, and hook up and hide the amp, but one of the reasons for the<BR>
music was to hide the faint sound of static from the speaker.  If anyone<BR>
_did_ lose control of their bladder, they were too embarrassed to mention<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
	One of these days I want to take the Chaosium module "No Man's<BR>
Land", rewrite it from the German perspective, and convince some people from<BR>
the WWI reenactment group I am in to play the game - I want to run it with<BR>
everyone in uniform, in one of the bunkers at the reenactment site<BR>
(trenches, barbed wire and everything).  I'd have to keep the sound system<BR>
in an ammo crate or something so the players would not see this modern piece<BR>
of equipment, and then run the speakers outside above the bunker.  I wonder<BR>
if I could get ahold of a small, powerful subwoofer and run it off of a car<BR>
battery and power inverter?  hmmm....  It would be great to place that right<BR>
above the roof of the stellung (bunker) so the sound of the artillery<BR>
barrage shakes the room and causes dust to sift down from the ceiling.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:00:45 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden?<BR>
<BR>
Loren Wiseman writes:<BR>
> Gentles,<BR>
> <BR>
> Varian and Lucan are sons of Strephon's sister Lydia, who married Duke<BR>
> Dresden. Is there a world called Dresden someplace in the Imperium? Are<BR>
> there any other mentions of the twin's parents anyplace?<BR>
<BR>
No 'Dresden' I can find, but plenty of unnamed worlds.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3142<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 11 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3143<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Dresden?<BR>
Re:   Help Needed<BR>
Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
Re: Dresden?<BR>
Re: Music to game by<BR>
for about five minutes...<BR>
Dresden<BR>
How to Unsubscribe?<BR>
Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
Re: Dresden?<BR>
Re: Dresden?<BR>
Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
High Tech Hygiene<BR>
Re: How to Unsubscribe?<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:01:40 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Dresden?<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Loren Wiseman [mailto:lkw@io.com]<BR>
> Sent: 11 October 2000 17:38<BR>
> To: traveller@ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Dresden?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Gentles,<BR>
> <BR>
> Varian and Lucan are sons of Strephon's sister Lydia, who married Duke<BR>
> Dresden. Is there a world called Dresden someplace in the <BR>
> Imperium? Are<BR>
> there any other mentions of the twin's parents anyplace?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
I think his name was Dresden, and he was Duke of Sanches (Core 0416)<BR>
(sorry, delay replying to your other email)<BR>
<BR>
Dean<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:05:03 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re:   Help Needed<BR>
<BR>
>From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
>Subject: Help Needed<BR>
><BR>
>Gentlebeings,<BR>
><BR>
>Once again, the fact that half my Traveller collection is still in storage<BR>
>1,500 km away arises to bit me in the arse. I need to prepare short capsule<BR>
>bios of the major nobles in the third imperium, and I need a few helpful<BR>
>souls to assist in the research. All I can promise in the way of payment is<BR>
>the heartfelt gratitude of the SJ Games  GURPS Traveller Line Manager and a<BR>
>copy of the Nobles book after it is printed.<BR>
><BR>
>I'll write the stuff, but I need someone to do some basic research for me.<BR>
<BR>
	Do you want us to dig through the published canon, find the<BR>
references to named individuals, and provide you with the text and the<BR>
citation; or are you asking us to write the bios?<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:06:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: The Trigan Empire<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>> Your mercenary unit has been hired by an empire on a TL1 balkanized<BR>
>>>> world. They've been expanding over their continent and have conquered a<BR>
>>>> good chunk of it. But there's this one village of "barbarians" still<BR>
>>>> holding out... <eg><BR>
>>><BR>
>>> Great idea, Leonard !<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> I'm going to have to run this one sometime, perhaps at the next<BR>
>>> convention we have here.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Shades of "Sturmegeshutz and Sorcery"!<BR>
>><BR>
>> Are you aware that there's an Asterix *game*? I got given a copy by a<BR>
>> friend for Christmas many years back. I've never played it. In fact,<BR>
>> I'm not sure if I've even read the rules.<BR>
><BR>
> I've seen an Asterix board ganme and a "dice" game (like Dragon Dice), but I<BR>
> haven't seen an RPG.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure it *is* an RPG. The rules come with a (wooden!) die, in a<BR>
plastic pouch. The rulebook is about the size of a thin paperback.<BR>
<BR>
I just opened the book for the first time. It's a sort of "choose your<BR>
adventure" book. <BR>
<BR>
It was printed and sold in Britian. <Pounds>4.95.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:21:23 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Robert Houghton wrote:<BR>
>>    Starship Troopers the movie? true to the book? gaaaaawwwd what were they<BR>
>> reading?<BR>
><BR>
> Probably ST while under influence.<BR>
><BR>
>> I too eagerly awaited ST as a movie...then I *saw* the movie and almost<BR>
>> cried...it's 90210 with guns,nukes,ships and bugs...It's crap...<BR>
><BR>
> I awaited it too -- and liked it. Not as a book-made-film, but as a<BR>
> hilarious bashing of militaristic attitude. <BR>
><BR>
> After the movie I read the book. While I like Heinlein's writing, the<BR>
> facism was too much for me. I could still understand while some citizens<BR>
> of USA like him, though. <BR>
<BR>
Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's writing?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:23:00 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Stormhound wrote :<BR>
><BR>
>> So far as being true to the Heinlein original, well, it had<BR>
>> some similarly named characters and situations, and that's<BR>
>> about it.  Obviously, the reviewer<BR>
>> didn't know diddly about the original book.<BR>
><BR>
> Well, I'm not that reviewer, I do know more than diddley about the book, and<BR>
> I agree with the stated opinion of the reviewer. I think the film was a very<BR>
> good rendition of the book.<BR>
><BR>
> While it was obvious Verhoeven(sp?) _tried_ to make it show the book in a<BR>
> bad light, it actually captured the feel of the basic premise of the book<BR>
>  a gung ho, Boy's Own, romp through the alien nasties) perfectly.<BR>
<BR>
Then you didn't read the same book I did.<BR>
<BR>
> See, Heinlien was well aware that the culture he portrayed in Troopers had<BR>
> fascist overtones, and it seems Verhoven wasn't aware of _that_ fact. The<BR>
> point was that this is what happens to any culture involved in a war for<BR>
> survival, at the begining of the book the culture is very much non-facist,<BR>
> in fact it's the reverse of fascism, it's Heinlien's standard libertarian<BR>
> paradise. By the end of the book, it has changed.<BR>
<BR>
Again, you appear to be reading a different book than the one I read.<BR>
<BR>
> It pretty much represents Heinlien's opinion of the changes to America over<BR>
> two World Wars, from the freedom of the late 1800's to the control of the<BR>
> 1950's.<BR>
<BR>
Not according to anything Heinlein ever wrote about it. And he *did*<BR>
write several essays that dealt with the things folks kept trying to<BR>
read into the book.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:23:19 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=14 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BIG><BIG><BIG><BR>
>In short, the complainant is an idiot.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I *did* say I read it in the L.A. Times...<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:36:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden?<BR>
<BR>
Survival Margin mentions their parents in a journal entry of Strephon. We<BR>
already knew from the Rebellion sourcebook that Strephon had outlived their<BR>
parents, but in SM, they are described as weak parents lacking discipline.<BR>
Lucan, in particular, is noted as a bully.<BR>
<BR>
Jeffrey Yin<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Loren Wiseman" <lkw@io.com><BR>
To: <traveller@ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 9:38 AM<BR>
Subject: Dresden?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Gentles,<BR>
><BR>
> Varian and Lucan are sons of Strephon's sister Lydia, who married Duke<BR>
> Dresden. Is there a world called Dresden someplace in the Imperium? Are<BR>
> there any other mentions of the twin's parents anyplace?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Loren Wiseman<BR>
>      Traveller Line Manager/Traveller Guru-in-Residence<BR>
>      Editor, Journal of the Travellers' Aid Society<BR>
http://jtas.sjgames.com/<BR>
>      SJ Games<BR>
>      lkw@io.com http://www.io.com/~lkw/<BR>
>      (512) 447-7866 VOX<BR>
>      (512) 447-1144 FAX<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 10:40:15 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Music to game by<BR>
<BR>
>From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Music to game by<BR>
><BR>
>For supernatural/horror games, I'd recommend picking up something by Lull. <BR>
>This is a side project of former Napalm Death drummer Mick Harris, who<BR>
mostly<BR>
>records as Scorn these days. Scorn is dark techno-ambient; Lull is the same<BR>
<BR>
>thing only incredibly slow-paced. A typical Lull track goes about 20<BR>
minutes, <BR>
>unearthly, dark, weird, spacey, non-lyrical. I blast it out the door on <BR>
>Halloween. <BR>
<BR>
	Brian Eno has this very strange album titled "On Land" which I have<BR>
used.  It is so low-key and non-melodic that it almost classifies as 'aural<BR>
wallpaper'.  Weird, slow, and more than a little disturbing.  I was playing<BR>
it one night a couple of months ago while reading and my wife complained "Do<BR>
you _want_ me to have nightmares?"<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>
- -------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:47:39 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: for about five minutes...<BR>
<BR>
of dialogue scattered throughout the movie, Starship Troopers: The Movie <BR>
holds true to the book.<BR>
The dialogue I thought would never make the screen actually...<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"Raised in a Washington hotel room in his youth, real<BR>
life is something Al Gore has read about but not lived."<BR>
- -- Dick Morris -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:34:43 +0100<BR>
From: "Nick Wright" <nick@corlecca.freeserve.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Dresden<BR>
<BR>
LKW asked for Dresden.<BR>
<BR>
Nearest I can find is Dreesen, UWP<BR>
<BR>
Glimmerdrift Reaches  1906  D 3439C8-6     . . . .  M1V M3V M8D<BR>
<BR>
Good luck<BR>
<BR>
I remain etc, etc.<BR>
<BR>
Nick Wright<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:31:43 -0700<BR>
From: Thomas Lawnsby <tsculler@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: How to Unsubscribe?<BR>
<BR>
Howdy,<BR>
<BR>
My email box is getting crammed... I need to unsubscribe for awhile.<BR>
How do I unsubscribe?  I seemed to have lost the original email with<BR>
instructions.<BR>
Thanks, Tom.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:36:58 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
Actually 'The Cobra' is a viable maneuver on Mig 29's (?) (maybe it's<BR>
the 27?), but few other aircraft in the world because they have some<BR>
fairly robust exhaust redirection. It also gives them considereably<BR>
shortened takeoff speeds and better all around agility. <BR>
<BR>
Think: Harrier's on meth.<BR>
<BR>
I've seen film of more than one of their pilots doing it...wow! In ATA<BR>
combat that would be a royal pain to have pulled on you. <BR>
<BR>
Blink and poof the bogey is not only behind you, but on your tail, fired<BR>
a missile and is turning down and away, out of reach. BOOM! Being able<BR>
to come, more or less, to a dead stop and maintain control is a GOOD<BR>
thing in dogfighting.<BR>
<BR>
Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Next door in Russia, they've been funding selling<BR>
> rides on Migs for at least 3 years.  Some significant<BR>
> insurance waivers are involved because the Russian<BR>
> Air Force pilots have a particularly risky manuever<BR>
> called the "Cobra".  It's scary to watch.  And actually<BR>
> more scary the more you know about planes.  US<BR>
> military pilots aren't even allowed to practice this<BR>
> manuever, but you can pay your US$5000 and do<BR>
> it in Russia.<BR>
> <BR>
> bloo<BR>
> <BR>
> "Smart, David J (David)" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> > ABC has posted the following on their site:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > -- quote --<BR>
> > D E S N A   M I L I T A R Y   B A S E, Ukraine, Oct. 9<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Ukraine's cash-strapped military has been looking long and hard for fresh<BR>
> > sources of revenue<BR>
> > and hit upon a whole new brand of tourism.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > In what it says is a first in the former Soviet Union, Ukraine's armed<BR>
> > forces are throwing<BR>
> > open 11 military training grounds and three air bases, inviting fee-paying<BR>
> > tourists, and<BR>
> > offering them the chance to play soldiers.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > >From AK-47 assault rifles to T-72 tanks and Mig-29 fighter jets, Ukraine is<BR>
> > offering anyone<BR>
> > with money to burn the opportunity to fire, drive and fly the same military<BR>
> > equipment that<BR>
> > during the Cold War was on hair-trigger alert for a NATO attack...<BR>
> ><BR>
> > -- end quote --<BR>
> ><BR>
> > ObTrav: The PCs have been hired by a low-TL world for a cadre ticket. It's<BR>
> > not until they've<BR>
> > arrive that they find out just *who* they will be training.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Can you imagine the fun a GM can have with this?<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Especially if one of the tourists is..Ditzie?!?  <weg><BR>
> ><BR>
> > The full story, BTW, is at:<BR>
> > http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/travel/DailyNews/Ukraine001009.html<BR>
> ><BR>
> > David<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:38:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>> I took a look at the pilot for "Dark Angel" last night. Interesting. A<BR>
sort of "different look" at the whole "super-soldier" bit.<BR>
>><BR>
>> I heard a complaint (in the L.A. Times, of all places) about an<BR>
over-similarity between this show and Heinlein's 'Friday.'  Assuming you've<BR>
read the book, how much similarity is there?  I figure it's easier to ask<BR>
than to actually bother watching the show<BR>
>> ...<BR>
>The only similarity is that that both women are the product of some genetic<BR>
manipulation. In Friday's case, they weren't trying to produce a<BR>
"superhuman", mostly just get around the fact that her parents genes weren't<BR>
very compatible. Max has non-human genes, for example, last night they<BR>
mentioned some feline genes (which have the side effect of producing<BR>
something like "heat" a few times a year :-)<BR>
><BR>
>Friday was taken and raised to be a sex toy. Max was being raised to be a<BR>
super soldier (and in a particularly *stupid* way).<BR>
><BR>
>Friday worked as a *secret* courier and a few times as an agent. Max works<BR>
as a bike messenger, and cat burglar. Max also does some freelance stuff for<BR>
a guy who is digging up info on the other children who escaped from the<BR>
facility where they were being trained.<BR>
><BR>
No, he's a PI and she's paying HIM.<BR>
<BR>
> I can see *slight* resemblances between him and "Kettle Belly"...<BR>
><BR>
>In short, the complainant is an idiot.<BR>
><BR>
>I never even *thought* of Friday while watching the show.<BR>
><BR>
Me neither-- and I like that book.<BR>
<BR>
Actually I was more reminded of Yours Truly from Snow Crash and the bike<BR>
messengers in Virtual Light.<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, my Japanese class meets on Tuesday nights and I have only<BR>
missed it because I had serious dental problems.  Is anyone taping this<BR>
show?<BR>
<BR>
Kiri, who watched just enough to get hooked...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:01:56 -0400<BR>
From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)<BR>
Subject: Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
>Actually 'The Cobra' is a viable maneuver on Mig 29's (?) (maybe it's<BR>
>the 27?), but few other aircraft in the world because they have some<BR>
>fairly robust exhaust redirection. It also gives them considereably<BR>
>shortened takeoff speeds and better all around agility. <BR>
<BR>
The Cobra is most widely seen being done in the Su-27, but it is supposedly<BR>
a maneuver quite a few Western aircraft are capable of, or at least from the<BR>
sources I have seen.<BR>
<BR>
>Think: Harrier's on meth.<BR>
><BR>
>I've seen film of more than one of their pilots doing it...wow! In ATA<BR>
>combat that would be a royal pain to have pulled on you. <BR>
<BR>
I get the impression that it's very showy, but it is also a wonderful way of<BR>
dying in real ACM.<BR>
<BR>
>Blink and poof the bogey is not only behind you, but on your tail, fired<BR>
>a missile and is turning down and away, out of reach. BOOM! Being able<BR>
>to come, more or less, to a dead stop and maintain control is a GOOD<BR>
>thing in dogfighting.<BR>
<BR>
If you got to the stage where you are dogfighting like that with an SU-27,<BR>
you are already have a lot of problems.<BR>
<BR>
Doing a Cobra while the other guy got a latest generation HS missile locking<BR>
onto you is a good way of being dead.<BR>
<BR>
C.T.<BR>
<BR>
"If water is suppose to be so good for you, why is it so tasteless?"<BR>
Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.<BR>
<BR>
Search the Net and Make Some Cash:<BR>
http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng<BR>
http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024 <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:09:43 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
Kiri, every time I open one of your posts (In Outlook Express 5) it makes<BR>
the machine jump over for the "Japanese" language add-on. I can't find where<BR>
to turn this off, is there a way you could change your postings? If not, I<BR>
will work harder at changing mine. I originally answered "yes" to the auto<BR>
update question when I installed it, that's why it does this to me. I will<BR>
dig a little deeper on my end anyway. Thank you ma'am.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:38 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Unfortunately, my Japanese class meets on Tuesday nights and I have only<BR>
> missed it because I had serious dental problems.  Is anyone taping this<BR>
> show?<BR>
><BR>
> Kiri, who watched just enough to get hooked...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:13:53 -0500<BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden?<BR>
<BR>
Anthony Jackson posted:<BR>
> <BR>
> Loren Wiseman writes:<BR>
> > Gentles,<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Varian and Lucan are sons of Strephon's sister Lydia, who <BR>
> married Duke<BR>
> > Dresden. Is there a world called Dresden someplace in the <BR>
> Imperium? Are<BR>
> > there any other mentions of the twin's parents anyplace?<BR>
> <BR>
> No 'Dresden' I can find, but plenty of unnamed worlds.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, same here. I did a text search through all data files<BR>
for Jim V.'s "Galactic 2.4" software and come up with zip.<BR>
This software covers CT, TNE, M0, and some fan variants.<BR>
<BR>
I also ran the same search on the sector files for <BR>
Stuart Ferris' "Heaven & Earth" software and also<BR>
came up with zip.<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:19:46 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden?<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 11:38:09 -0500<BR>
> From: Loren Wiseman <lkw@io.com><BR>
> Subject: Dresden?<BR>
<BR>
> Varian and Lucan are sons of Strephon's sister Lydia, who married Duke<BR>
> Dresden. Is there a world called Dresden someplace in the Imperium? Are<BR>
> there any other mentions of the twin's parents anyplace?<BR>
<BR>
If he is in fact "Duke Dresden", rather than "Duke _of_ Dresden", doesn't<BR>
that mean that his title doesn't include Dresden as a fief? The<BR>
"Dresden" mentioned could then be anywhere, including the city on Earth.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:23:17 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
Yea, I saw that on Discovery channel I believe. It was demonstrated at<BR>
several of the Paris air shows and definitely looked awesome. That "pop-up"<BR>
ability would allow it to dodge (timed properly) the MUCH less agile<BR>
missiles coming at it. BTW, it is the Mig-29 and I believe that they had one<BR>
that crashed at one of the air shows. I remember seeing a documentary where<BR>
the plane was pulling a straight up maneuver (at low altitude) and the nose<BR>
"fell" over to the right side, crashing nose first into the ground maybe<BR>
three hundred meters in front of the spectators. The pilot ejected safely<BR>
(all on film) and landed near the burning wreckage right between the two<BR>
runways. Really neat documentary, it had lots of fiery crashes on it....hee<BR>
hee hee....more caffeine please!<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Bruce Johnson" <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:36 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Actually 'The Cobra' is a viable maneuver on Mig 29's (?) (maybe it's<BR>
> the 27?), but few other aircraft in the world because they have some<BR>
> fairly robust exhaust redirection. It also gives them considereably<BR>
> shortened takeoff speeds and better all around agility.<BR>
><BR>
> Think: Harrier's on meth.<BR>
><BR>
> I've seen film of more than one of their pilots doing it...wow! In ATA<BR>
> combat that would be a royal pain to have pulled on you.<BR>
><BR>
> Blink and poof the bogey is not only behind you, but on your tail, fired<BR>
> a missile and is turning down and away, out of reach. BOOM! Being able<BR>
> to come, more or less, to a dead stop and maintain control is a GOOD<BR>
> thing in dogfighting.<BR>
><BR>
> Steve Daniels wrote:<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:25:46 -0700<BR>
From: Bill <beast@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
>> While it was obvious Verhoeven(sp?) _tried_ to make it show the book in a<BR>
>> bad light, it actually captured the feel of the basic premise of the book<BR>
>>  a gung ho, Boy's Own, romp through the alien nasties) perfectly.<BR>
><BR>
>Then you didn't read the same book I did.<BR>
><BR>
>> See, Heinlien was well aware that the culture he portrayed in Troopers had<BR>
>> fascist overtones, and it seems Verhoven wasn't aware of _that_ fact. The<BR>
>> point was that this is what happens to any culture involved in a war for<BR>
>> survival, at the begining of the book the culture is very much non-facist,<BR>
>> in fact it's the reverse of fascism, it's Heinlien's standard libertarian<BR>
>> paradise. By the end of the book, it has changed.<BR>
><BR>
>Again, you appear to be reading a different book than the one I read.<BR>
><BR>
>> It pretty much represents Heinlien's opinion of the changes to America over<BR>
>> two World Wars, from the freedom of the late 1800's to the control of the<BR>
> > 1950's.<BR>
<BR>
Having just reread ST by Heinlien. And having just rented the movie recently,<BR>
<BR>
Aside from a small residual resemblance of societies, and that some <BR>
of the characters have the same name... There is very little in <BR>
common between Heinlien's book and the movie.<BR>
<BR>
I did find the movie entertaining though.<BR>
<BR>
Bill<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:38:27 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
From: Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Kiri, every time I open one of your posts (In Outlook Express 5) it makes<BR>
the machine jump over for the "Japanese" language add-on. I can't find where<BR>
to turn this off, is there a way you could change your postings?<BR>
><BR>
No, there is not.  Sorry.  My home system internet/email is Japanese-based.<BR>
This is absolutely necessary for me.  It's a problem that I can't do it at<BR>
work!<BR>
<BR>
But, I believe you can turn it off.  I just wish I could remember the<BR>
instructions.<BR>
<BR>
Gomen nasai (sorry),<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:57:06 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: High Tech Hygiene<BR>
<BR>
>Alternatively, attitudues in  the  mainstream  of  3I  culture<BR>
>    remain similar.  But sprays and stick deodorants are  too  low<BR>
>    tech.  BO is produced not by the body  but  by  bacteria  that<BR>
>    live on the skin.<BR>
>Perhaps there'll be an  anti-BO  pill  that<BR>
>    Norris takes once a month (a bit like current anti-flea  pills<BR>
>    for cats and dogs).  This pill would cause the sweat glands to<BR>
>    include a mild anti-bacterial agent in their secretions.  Thus<BR>
>    no BO, therefore no deodorant.<BR>
<BR>
Rather than a pill, I lean toward counter bacteria spray.  A High Passage <BR>
cabin's fresher would have this as a shower option.  The system would <BR>
analyze your bacteria and customize a batch to spray you down with.<BR>
<BR>
Another option is the 'really smart skin suit.'  Similar to the one worn by <BR>
the Cyber-Warrior in S.M. Stirling's book Draka.<BR>
This is more of a skin coating than a 'suit'.  It would collect dead skin <BR>
cells and deal with any smelly bacteria.<BR>
Such a suit flows over skin areas as needed/on command.<BR>
<BR>
These are rather high tech options.  This would be the type of high tech <BR>
trade item that 'da rich folk' on lower tech worlds would spend idle <BR>
credits on.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"Raised in a Washington hotel room in his youth, real<BR>
life is something Al Gore has read about but not lived."<BR>
- -- Dick Morris -- http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:14:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: How to Unsubscribe?<BR>
<BR>
send email to majordomo@ient.com with unsubscribe traveller in the body of<BR>
the message.  Or you can use the tml form on my webpage<BR>
(http://www.travellercentral.com)<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Thomas Lawnsby" <tsculler@earthlink.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 11:31 AM<BR>
Subject: How to Unsubscribe?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Howdy,<BR>
><BR>
> My email box is getting crammed... I need to unsubscribe for awhile.<BR>
> How do I unsubscribe?  I seemed to have lost the original email with<BR>
> instructions.<BR>
> Thanks, Tom.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:11:53 -0400<BR>
From: "James Fleming" <blackjack@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 3:09 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri, every time I open one of your posts (In Outlook Express 5) it makes<BR>
> the machine jump over for the "Japanese" language add-on. I can't find<BR>
where<BR>
> to turn this off, is there a way you could change your postings? If not, I<BR>
> will work harder at changing mine. I originally answered "yes" to the auto<BR>
> update question when I installed it, that's why it does this to me. I will<BR>
> dig a little deeper on my end anyway. Thank you ma'am.<BR>
<BR>
Thom,<BR>
<BR>
I had the same annoying problem as you in regards to the Japanese text.  I<BR>
have found a way to rectify it however,  at least if you're using MS<BR>
Outlook.  Assuming that you are, here goes:<BR>
 Open Tools up top<BR>
Click Options<BR>
Once in Options, click Read<BR>
Click International Settings at the bottom of the Read menu.<BR>
Check Use Default Encoding for All Incoming Messages<BR>
Hope this helps,<BR>
Jim Fleming<BR>
a.k.a. Blackjack Fleming<BR>
Hero For Hire<BR>
blackjack@pil.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3143<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 11 2000    Volume 1999 : Number 3144<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Body Mods (was off-topic games)<BR>
kiri's Japanese (Was Re: Dark Angel)<BR>
"Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
Su-37(?) "Cobra" maneuver<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
Re: Cobra viability<BR>
Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
RE:  High Tech Hygiene<BR>
Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
Re: Hmmmmm<BR>
Veedback, Near Miss and some Shows and Celebrities of the 3I (especially Solomani-heavy cultural regions)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3143<BR>
Re: Dresden<BR>
Re: Help Needed<BR>
Re: "Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:21:06 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Body Mods (was off-topic games)<BR>
<BR>
> I figure in the Traveller Universe Imperial citizens have the same<BR>
attitude<BR>
> to this as they do to cybernetics...distate at the dehumanising effects of<BR>
> voluntary mutilation (of course, for a society that comprises 11,000<BR>
stellar<BR>
> system that maybe a _bit_ of a generalisation). Gosh, those Impies are a<BR>
big<BR>
> old bunch of stick-in-the-muds, aren't they? :) As always, YMMV.<BR>
<BR>
Doubtless, this is the Vilani influence ( i.e. new=bad).  Still, somebody<BR>
will be doing it.  It just may be an affectation of the counter-culture,<BR>
although in a few thousand years, this kind of stuff may be seen as<BR>
conservative and mainstream.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:24:10 -0700<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: kiri's Japanese (Was Re: Dark Angel)<BR>
<BR>
On Wednesday, October 11, 2000 12:38 PM<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
<BR>
> But, I believe you can turn it off.  I just wish I could remember the<BR>
> instructions.<BR>
<BR>
Tools ->Options<BR>
Choose the Read tab.<BR>
Click the International Settings... button<BR>
Check the "Use default encoding for all incoming Messages" checkbox<BR>
make sure your default encoding is correct (Same area, Western European<BR>
(ISO) for most English reading folk)<BR>
<BR>
Dou itashimashite.<BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
===========================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:31:31 -0500<BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com><BR>
Subject: "Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson posted:<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually 'The Cobra' is a viable maneuver on Mig 29's (?) (maybe it's<BR>
> the 27?), but few other aircraft in the world because they have some<BR>
> fairly robust exhaust redirection. It also gives them considereably<BR>
> shortened takeoff speeds and better all around agility. <BR>
> <BR>
> Think: Harrier's on meth.<BR>
> <BR>
> I've seen film of more than one of their pilots doing it...wow! In ATA<BR>
> combat that would be a royal pain to have pulled on you. <BR>
> <BR>
> Blink and poof the bogey is not only behind you, but on your <BR>
> tail, fired<BR>
> a missile and is turning down and away, out of reach. BOOM! Being able<BR>
> to come, more or less, to a dead stop and maintain control is a GOOD<BR>
> thing in dogfighting.<BR>
<BR>
Actually the aircraft is the Su-37 "Super Flanker".<BR>
A number of downloadable movies of the aircraft's maneuvers<BR>
are available via high speed links at:<BR>
<BR>
http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAFAQ/display.html<BR>
<BR>
Links #4 and #14 really show the effectiveness of the "Cobra"<BR>
maneuver.<BR>
<BR>
Scared the beejesus out of a couple local pilots when they<BR>
saw it.  I gotta admit; it's got a high pucker factor for me<BR>
to.  ;)<BR>
<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:35:55 -0500<BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com><BR>
Subject: Su-37(?) "Cobra" maneuver<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, all. Looks like "Su-37" on the<BR>
website I posted is a typo. Other pages<BR>
on the same website reference the aircraft<BR>
as an Su-27.<BR>
         ^<BR>
David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:17:05 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>>In mail you write:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>>> I took a look at the pilot for "Dark Angel" last night. Interesting. A<BR>
>>>> sort of "different look" at the whole "super-soldier" bit.<BR>
>>><BR>
>>> I heard a complaint (in the L.A. Times, of all places) about an<BR>
>>> over-similarity between this show and Heinlein's 'Friday.'<BR>
>>> Assuming you've read the book, how much similarity is there?  I<BR>
>>> figure it's easier to ask than to actually bother watching the show<BR>
>>> ...<BR>
>> The only similarity is that that both women are the product of some<BR>
>> genetic manipulation. In Friday's case, they weren't trying to<BR>
>> produce a "superhuman", mostly just get around the fact that her<BR>
>> parents genes weren't very compatible. Max has non-human genes, for<BR>
>> example, last night they mentioned some feline genes (which have the<BR>
>> side effect of producing something like "heat" a few times a year :-)<BR>
>><BR>
>> Friday was taken and raised to be a sex toy. Max was being raised to<BR>
>> be a super soldier (and in a particularly *stupid* way).<BR>
>><BR>
>> Friday worked as a *secret* courier and a few times as an agent. Max<BR>
>> works as a bike messenger, and cat burglar. Max also does some<BR>
>> freelance stuff for a guy who is digging up info on the other<BR>
>> children who escaped from the facility where they were being trained.<BR>
>><BR>
> No, he's a PI and she's paying HIM.<BR>
<BR>
Not the PI. The guy who is behind the "Eyes Only" cablecasts.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:20:29 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri, every time I open one of your posts (In Outlook Express 5) it makes<BR>
> the machine jump over for the "Japanese" language add-on. I can't find where<BR>
> to turn this off, is there a way you could change your postings?<BR>
<BR>
Here's the ofending section of the header from here last message:<BR>
<BR>
> MIME-Version: 1.0<BR>
> Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>
>         charset="iso-2022-jp"<BR>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It's the "charset" section that's the problem.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 13:25:09 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         One of these days I want to take the Chaosium module "No Man's<BR>
> Land", rewrite it from the German perspective, and convince some people from<BR>
> the WWI reenactment group I am in to play the game - I want to run it with<BR>
> everyone in uniform, in one of the bunkers at the reenactment site<BR>
> (trenches, barbed wire and everything).  I'd have to keep the sound system<BR>
> in an ammo crate or something so the players would not see this modern piece<BR>
> of equipment, and then run the speakers outside above the bunker.  I wonder<BR>
> if I could get ahold of a small, powerful subwoofer and run it off of a car<BR>
> battery and power inverter?  hmmm....  It would be great to place that right<BR>
> above the roof of the stellung (bunker) so the sound of the artillery<BR>
> barrage shakes the room and causes dust to sift down from the ceiling.<BR>
<BR>
Look for a gizmo called a "transducer" (or something like that). It's<BR>
basicly a powerful piezoelectric lement designed to be fastened to<BR>
walls or floors to turn them into a giant bass speaker.<BR>
<BR>
Pity you don't know anybody with a pyrotechnician's license, or who<BR>
does special effects work. They'd cheerfully rig up charges to *really*<BR>
simulate artillery...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:12:31 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cobra viability<BR>
<BR>
Cheng Tseng wrote:<BR>
> >I've seen film of more than one of their pilots doing it...wow! In ATA<BR>
> >combat that would be a royal pain to have pulled on you.<BR>
> <BR>
> I get the impression that it's very showy, but it is also a wonderful way of<BR>
> dying in real ACM.<BR>
<BR>
Right.<BR>
<BR>
> >Blink and poof the bogey is not only behind you, but on your tail, fired<BR>
> >a missile and is turning down and away, out of reach. BOOM! Being able<BR>
> >to come, more or less, to a dead stop and maintain control is a GOOD<BR>
> >thing in dogfighting.<BR>
<BR>
At best, the Cobra might give you one chance to turn the tables, but you <BR>
sacrifice basically all your kinetic energy at once to do it. If you don't <BR>
end the fight there, you've just put yourself at a greater disadvantage. <BR>
<BR>
I think a Harrier pilot once said something to the effect that VIFF maneuvers<BR>
might give you a one-in-a-big-number shot at saving your life, but were <BR>
absolutely not to be relied on as a standard dogfight tactic; Cobra would <BR>
be much the same. <BR>
<BR>
> If you got to the stage where you are dogfighting like that with an SU-27,<BR>
> you are already have a lot of problems.<BR>
> <BR>
> Doing a Cobra while the other guy got a latest generation HS missile locking<BR>
> onto you is a good way of being dead.<BR>
<BR>
Someone else claimed that it can actually dodge a missile, but it would <BR>
seem to me that it would be _very_ dependent on how far the missile was from<BR>
you when you started the Cobra -- if the missile's far enough, it has to <BR>
divert only a few degrees over a longer timeframe, while if it's very close<BR>
it has to make a larger correction in a shorter distance/time. <BR>
<BR>
I personally wouldn't count on it to save my life. But then, I'm not a <BR>
military pilot, so I probably won't need to. <BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:14:35 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:13:33 -0400 (EDT), "Kiri Aradia Morgan"<BR>
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>From: Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
<BR>
>>Kiri, every time I open one of your posts (In Outlook Express 5) it makes<BR>
>>the machine jump over for the "Japanese" language add-on. I can't find where<BR>
>>to turn this off, is there a way you could change your postings?<BR>
<BR>
>No, there is not.  Sorry.  My home system internet/email is Japanese-based.<BR>
>This is absolutely necessary for me.  It's a problem that I can't do it at<BR>
>work!<BR>
<BR>
>But, I believe you can turn it off.  I just wish I could remember the<BR>
>instructions.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri, what mail program do you use for sending out your mail?  Mine (Fort<BR>
Agent) will let me set the language of each message separately.  Some<BR>
others do, to; maybe I can find the obscure info needed for you to be able<BR>
to turn it off for TML posts.<BR>
<BR>
Thom, I don't see the problem you do; I receive the digest, which strips<BR>
out the content-type header from the individual messages.  This might be an<BR>
acceptable workaround for you.  I'll also see if I can find instructions<BR>
for either disabling the checking in OE, or for changing the language on<BR>
particular messages, either using filters or manually.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:32:47 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Kiri, what mail program do you use for sending out your mail?  Mine<BR>
(FortEAgent) will let me set the language of each message separately.<BR>
><BR>
Mine will do that, but it won't let me send any messages that aren't in the<BR>
default language unless I change all my defaults.  I'd rather not bother<BR>
with all that.<BR>
<BR>
Anyhow, this is an OE-only problem, and two different people have posted the<BR>
fix.  I think it should be addressed to Bill Gates, not me!<BR>
<BR>
Thanks anyway!  I think people with OE need to use the fixes Gordon (doumo<BR>
arigatou) and someone else (whose name is failing me because I am at home<BR>
right now sick) posted.  Because there are lots of coding systems out there,<BR>
and this is an international list.  IF my posts are causing this problem,<BR>
someone else's might also.<BR>
<BR>
My own machine sometimes hiccups when people send accented European<BR>
characters in messages (or when I read them on web pages) because it wants<BR>
to turn them into kanji!  I'm not going to ask them not to do that, though.<BR>
That's just part of life in the global village...<BR>
<BR>
Thanks anyway...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 17:34:45 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE:  High Tech Hygiene<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin writes:<BR>
>>Alternatively, attitudues in  the  mainstream  of  3I  culture<BR>
>>remain similar.  But sprays and stick deodorants are  too  low<BR>
>>tech.  BO is produced not by the body  but  by  bacteria  that<BR>
>>live on the skin.<BR>
>>Perhaps there'll be an anti-BO  pill  that<BR>
>>Norris takes once a month (a bit like current anti-flea  pills<BR>
>>for cats and dogs).  This pill would cause the sweat glands to<BR>
>>include a mild anti-bacterial agent in their secretions.  Thus<BR>
>>no BO, therefore no deodorant.<BR>
>Rather than a pill, I lean toward counter bacteria spray.  A High Passage <BR>
>cabin's fresher would have this as a shower option.  The system would <BR>
>analyze your bacteria and customize a batch to spray you down with.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
        The 'pill' option sounds like gene therapy: a capsule of virus that<BR>
        injects appropriate DNA into sweat gland cells so that certain<BR>
        antibacterial substances can be added.  New pills would be<BR>
        required as the bacteria on Norris' skin will likely evolve<BR>
        resistance to the old antibacterial substance.  Just how many<BR>
        times can you inject new DNA into a cell before something goes<BR>
        wrong?  ;)<BR>
<BR>
        A taylored spray might be safer.  Another approach might be to<BR>
        infect your skin with taylored bacteria that eat everything else<BR>
        but do not produce smells.  Just make sure that it does not<BR>
        become a pathogen (disease-causing).<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:51:19 -0700<BR>
From: "Thing" <gduke@telebyte.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
<BR>
On Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:32 PM<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan said,<BR>
<BR>
> Thanks anyway!  I think people with OE need to use the fixes Gordon<BR>
(doumo<BR>
> arigatou)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dou itashimashite.<BR>
<BR>
Genki desu ka? <sp?><BR>
<BR>
G.D.D.<BR>
Thing under the stairs,<BR>
Minion of Shechemist & GothBunny,<BR>
Grand Master of the Electron Flow.<BR>
===========================<BR>
Quid Quid Latine Dictum Sit, Altum Viditur<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 14:56:17 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
<BR>
>Genki desu ka? <sp?><BR>
><BR>
Iie.  I had a tooth removed yesterday (that badly needed removing) and then<BR>
had an allergic reaction to codeine.<BR>
<BR>
Missed my Japanese midterm!<BR>
<BR>
But I'll be better tomorrow.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for asking,<BR>
Kiri  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:03:11 -0700<BR>
From: "David P. Summers" <summers@alum.mit.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: OT: Basslines<BR>
<BR>
At 10:59 PM -0700 10/8/00, Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
>  > Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2000 20:51:13 PST<BR>
>  > From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>  ><BR>
>  > Who or what are "Sisters of Mercy"?<BR>
><BR>
>One of the better Goth-ish groups, prone to gravelly singing about<BR>
>depressing subjects.  Their "Corrosion" is one of my fave club dance<BR>
>songs.  Now, for 5 bonus trivia guru points, everyone:  Where did they get<BR>
>their name?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I always preferred "Dominion", but Corrosion is good to (thought<BR>
the video was a bit overdone...).<BR>
<BR>
______________________________<BR>
summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>
(This is the net.  My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:50:59 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Has a far better analysis of the differences between the Starship <BR>
Troopers film and book than I could ver do.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:52:36 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
On 11 Oct 2000, at 8:58, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The only similarity is that that both women are the product of some<BR>
> genetic manipulation. In Friday's case, they weren't trying to produce<BR>
> a "superhuman", mostly just get around the fact that her parents genes<BR>
> weren't very compatible. <BR>
<BR>
I'm fairly sure they were. She ended up with genetic material from just about <BR>
everywhere, in order that it be the best.<BR>
<BR>
> Friday was taken and raised to be a sex toy. Max was being raised to be<BR>
> a super soldier (and in a particularly *stupid* way). <BR>
<BR>
Friday was trained that way by accident. The plan was to raise her as a <BR>
'normal' person.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:16:50 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Hmmmmm<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 11-Oct-00 12:15:21 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
>  Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:38:39 -0700<BR>
>  From: "fadetozero" <bempath@iserv.net><BR>
>  Subject: so  it goes<BR>
>  <BR>
>  LKW<BR>
>  <BR>
>  let's say hypothetically that your old address is within the range of the<BR>
>  vehicle i can borrow to retrieve the stuff and make sure it gets to u...and<BR>
>  let's furthermore imagine that i could retrieve it and get it to u<BR>
>  posthaste...<BR>
>  <BR>
>  my schedule is semi-flexible, and i think i can borrow vehicles...<BR>
<BR>
Did you mean to send that to the TML as a whole? <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:14:29 -0400<BR>
From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com><BR>
Subject: Veedback, Near Miss and some Shows and Celebrities of the 3I (especially Solomani-heavy cultural regions)<BR>
<BR>
The "Veedback" thread made me think of this.  Just some ideas of mine.<BR>
<BR>
BTW, my favorite 3I band has always been "Near Miss."  This was the name of<BR>
a band in a convention adventure (I think either Origins or a convention in<BR>
the UK back in the 1980's.  I only have read the adventure capsule summary<BR>
but my brother and I fabricated a band around the name.<BR>
<BR>
        Near Miss    ("Hydrogen Blonde", "<BR>
<BR>
Range Arson<BR>
Dev Lendrel<BR>
Lance Gunar<BR>
Case Barret<BR>
Dev Render<BR>
<BR>
Graavis Vonzhel    -    Sound Engineer<BR>
Hughes Atlas         -    Head Roadie<BR>
<BR>
          For your enjoyment, the members of Veedback were:<BR>
<BR>
Mordred Rosegold<BR>
Delilah D'Aubry<BR>
Lydia Vervain<BR>
Marvin "Ginch" Ginchlowe<BR>
Herman Zero<BR>
Rosalita Tuesday<BR>
Sandor Cronstein<BR>
Walshingham Doppler<BR>
<BR>
The following are some ideas I had for major theatrical (holo, sim, etc...)<BR>
performers:<BR>
<BR>
"Death is for Lovers" (the third Naamidu-7 feauture)<BR>
Starring Leyna Tirenthe as Naamidu) at the UoR Reyna Omnium - SharuSim<BR>
<BR>
IMPERIAL SIM STARS (and their rough modern-day equivalents)<BR>
<BR>
Kaeline Lendele   (Lana Turner)<BR>
Rayna Lari   (Raquel Welch)<BR>
Gamaagiin Liruli  (Halle Berry)<BR>
Foss Diebeck   (John Wayne).<BR>
Ruger Diem   (Arnold Schwarzeneggar)<BR>
Carlton Hobeck   (Gregory Peck)<BR>
Dirk "Salamander" Alamain (Dirk Bogarde)<BR>
<BR>
SYNDICATED HOLOVID PROGRAMS:<BR>
<BR>
The Ancients A trio of attractive young Imperials join forces with the<BR>
"Grandfather," the last of the immortal Ancients to oppose  Zhodani<BR>
aggression and snti-Imperial insurgents.  Bene Embri has a recurring role as<BR>
the enigmatic but lovable superDroyn Yaskodray.   Shien Tornquist is Eloe<BR>
Hade.  In this weeks episode, Boone Ipaaru guest stars in his recurring role<BR>
as Questus.  Megaband Near Miss is responsible for the unbelievably popular<BR>
soundtrack (with the hit single "Break my heart, I'll blow you away.") and<BR>
is available through all fine Imperial outlets.<BR>
<BR>
(IMTU the Secret of the Ancients is still an unknown. Yaskodray is fiction.)<BR>
<BR>
"Salamander"<BR>
Dirk Alamein stars as "the Salamander," an Imperial Navy Intelligence<BR>
Operative.  This season includes a promotional guest appearance by the<BR>
Salamander in the upcoming Naamidu-7 Holostim, "Death is for Lovers."  This<BR>
weeks episode has the Salamander infiltrating an Imperial Deep Site whose<BR>
crew is being infested with a telepathic, mind-controlling parasite.<BR>
<BR>
(Based on the characters from the Regina TML Landgrab - my Regina is set in<BR>
1105 and not as gritty)<BR>
<BR>
"Due Haste"<BR>
A reality holovid featuring the day to day lives of regular Imperial Navy<BR>
Spacers and Officers, with the occasional show devoted to the scouts and<BR>
Marines.  Shows include "local interest segments" which devote about half of<BR>
the show to local (sector) units.  This is where most Citizens of the<BR>
Marches obtain their information about the Armed Forces.  This week's show<BR>
takes the citizen aboard the vanguard of Imperial might in the marches, the<BR>
massive ISS Pantheress at Rhylanor. As a side note, the musical score is by<BR>
the pop singer Activiti.<BR>
<BR>
"Imperial Expose "<BR>
Enli Iddukagan's sensationalistic periodical posted from different points<BR>
throughout the Cygnus Reach, but centering on the Marches. at its center.<BR>
Enli always delivers the goods, and his "Treasure Ships of the Spinward<BR>
Main" series drew large audiences. Enli is currently investigating the<BR>
insurgency on Efate.  (See TNS Efate/Regina 274-1105).<BR>
<BR>
(Various JotTAS articles)<BR>
<BR>
"Democracia"<BR>
 Lady Corrina Raleigh-Ling's political discussion forum tackles subjects<BR>
from upgrading the X-Boat network to Archduke Dulinor's controversial<BR>
investiture and the reform movement.  This week's shows is a discussion of<BR>
the political significance of the long-standing "Nadir of Ilelish".<BR>
Comparisons are invited between the Ilel and the Marches.<BR>
(Based on the characters from the Regina TML Landgrab)<BR>
<BR>
"Millenium"<BR>
Akiida Laagkir's omnibus exploration of the Imperial frontier in the Cygnus<BR>
Reach and its rough and ready<BR>
people.  Patriotism is the topic for this week, and comparisons are invited<BR>
between the cosmopolitan Corelian cultures and the wholsome mores and<BR>
attitudes of the Marches.  He asks the question "How much will we change?",<BR>
what will the 3I be like at TL 18 in SI 2000?<BR>
<BR>
(The Traveller Digest)<BR>
<BR>
"Legacy"<BR>
Eileen Quen's investigative odyssey reporting on the Human Ancients<BR>
traditions of Vland, Terran flood myths,  and interpretations of Terran<BR>
wisdom literature.<BR>
<BR>
"New Life"<BR>
The Imperial Faith reaches the masses through this interactive program.<BR>
This week's mass explores the moral<BR>
and spiritual ramifications of new technologies.<BR>
<BR>
"Travelling"<BR>
 The perennial TAS favorite with Jeremii Bodiin.  This week he is visiting<BR>
GlisTen.<BR>
<BR>
(A JotTAS Article?  or was it The Traveller Digest?)<BR>
- -Dan Lane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:26:07 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3143<BR>
<BR>
>I'll write the stuff, but I need someone to do some basic research for me.<BR>
>  <BR>
>   Do you want us to dig through the published canon, find the<BR>
>  references to named individuals, and provide you with the text and the<BR>
>  citation; or are you asking us to write the bios?<BR>
<BR>
The gist of any mentions for the time being, and citations. I don't need <BR>
exact quotes just yet.<BR>
<BR>
As I said, I'll write the stuff . . .<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:31:10 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden<BR>
<BR>
> > Varian and Lucan are sons of Strephon's sister Lydia, who married Duke<BR>
>  > Dresden. Is there a world called Dresden someplace in the Imperium? Are<BR>
>  > there any other mentions of the twin's parents anyplace?<BR>
>  <BR>
>  If he is in fact "Duke Dresden", rather than "Duke _of_ Dresden", doesn't<BR>
>  that mean that his title doesn't include Dresden as a fief? <BR>
<BR>
Canon references are inconclusive. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:38:50 -0400<BR>
From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Help Needed<BR>
<BR>
Loren, I would love to write up a few nobles, if for no other reason but to<BR>
"canonize" them.  I was thinking of the<BR>
House Naasiir.  The homeworld is Naasiira (non-canon unfortunately).<BR>
<BR>
- -Dan Lane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 16:44:58 -0700<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: "Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
<BR>
Smart, David J (David) wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
> Actually the aircraft is the Su-37 "Super Flanker".<BR>
> A number of downloadable movies of the aircraft's maneuvers<BR>
> are available via high speed links at:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAFAQ/display.html<BR>
> <BR>
> Links #4 and #14 really show the effectiveness of the "Cobra"<BR>
> maneuver.<BR>
> <BR>
> Scared the beejesus out of a couple local pilots when they<BR>
> saw it.  I gotta admit; it's got a high pucker factor for me<BR>
> to.  ;)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks for that link, and the correct aircraft designation. I was<BR>
misremembering an old Discovery channel show.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:01:07 +1000<BR>
From: Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
Subject: Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
> Sarcasm mode on.<BR>
><BR>
> Yes but... 20th century British Goth rock groups are so Traveller... as are<BR>
> movie and cartoon reviews... simply bolt on an 'about Trav.' blurb at the<BR>
> end and anything goes. Take for instance an issue that simply begs to be<BR>
> talked to death by this group - body oder - now, I prefer dry-stick<BR>
> roll-ons, and detest people who use anything else... <snip 14 paragraphs<BR>
> that delve into the pros and cons of anti-deodorant products and the people<BR>
> who use them>. 'About Traveller' (you know - the real reason some of<BR>
> subscribe to this list): Gee... I wonder what brand of deodorant Norris<BR>
> uses? I ask because this burning issue comes up every time our gaming group<BR>
> meets.<BR>
><BR>
> Sarcasm mode off.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Sarcasm aside...closed environment on a starship...would spray deodourant gum up<BR>
the filters? spread throughout the ship? after a month or so in a small ship<BR>
(Scout/Courier) smelling a deodourant that you dislike could you use insanity as<BR>
a defence when you space them and their stinky armpits?<BR>
<BR>
You get the Idea...<BR>
<BR>
Other Rob<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3144<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 12 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3145<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Cobra<BR>
Re: Sadistic GMs<BR>
Re: "Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
Linux software (slight reprise.<BR>
Re: Dresden<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
RE: Veedback, Near Miss and some Shows and Celebrities of the 3I (especially Solomani-heavy cultural regions)<BR>
Heinlein<BR>
Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Goth Cub Scouts<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Dark Angel<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:59 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: Re: OT: RPG Music<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <01011.132509.7P5.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
You DO know someone with a pyro licence.... :-)<BR>
<BR>
Started off with battlefield pyro, & done move SFX. You want I come fire <BR>
off a few charges for you?<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:52:15 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
> From: "Tod Glenn" <BR>
> True.  Perhaps perfume is back in fashion for men.  For all we know,<BR>
> makeup is all the rage, too.  A few thousand years and the culture will<BR>
> probably be completely unrecognizable.  Just look at the nutty fads that<BR>
> have appeared in the last decade.  We used to think that long hair was<BR>
> radical.  Now we have tatoos and body piercings, not to mention branding<BR>
> and scarification.<BR>
> <BR>
> I shudder to think what a few thousand years will bring.  Maybe geneered<BR>
> personal odors, bioosculpted bodies -- not just prettified but really<BR>
> alien stuff. Care for an extra arm? It's all the rage now in the Marches.<BR>
> Fangs are so passe. Pointed ears? Dorsal fin?  Fur? Blue skin? Peacock<BR>
> feathers?<BR>
<BR>
It is reasonably possible that "fashion" might tend to move in cycles, so<BR>
future styles might not differ too much from present day ones, for our<BR>
purposes, at least.  The question is:  _which_ present day ones?  <BR>
<BR>
Using a bit of "not whatever is normal now" is, of course, a good way of<BR>
making the future seem different.  Larry Niven does this quite a bit, with<BR>
his Belters and so on exhibiting various fashion trends.<BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, the styles most likely to be chosen by players tend to also<BR>
be those most used by SF writers.  I personally would never play a<BR>
character with mirrorshades, or a mohawk, or....<BR>
<BR>
There are odder combinations possible.  I have been known to use low<BR>
tech/high tech combinations:  wrist computers, gauss pistols and so on,<BR>
combined with natural fibre sarongs and sandles, for example.  Adding<BR>
something like a bone through a character's nose will make an impression on<BR>
your players, especially if the character is otherwise totally kitted out<BR>
with "normal" high tech gear.  A "Wild West" look (in moderation!) can work<BR>
quite well for Scouts, or at least those of them that have spent enough<BR>
time on-world to have started to go native a bit.<BR>
<BR>
Don't forget to alter skin colours.  Even if you don't feel up to blue,<BR>
varying your colouration between natural shades is no more drastic than<BR>
altering your hair or eye colour.  Potentially this could be useful too. <BR>
I'm not sure of the science, but tweaking your melanin levels might make<BR>
sense on some worlds...<BR>
<BR>
Many of my own PCs have tended to combine green eyes with olive or darker<BR>
skin colours.  In the "or darker" cases, this would normally involve some<BR>
degree of articificial assistance.<BR>
<BR>
One final thing:  "fashions" aren't uniformly distributed throughout a<BR>
society.  Simple, cheap and practical is likely to be relatively common and<BR>
widespread, while more elaborate, expensive and faddish tastes are going to<BR>
be more concentrated in specific groups and times.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 18:03:26 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cobra<BR>
<BR>
David Smart wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, all. Looks like "Su-37" on the<BR>
> website I posted is a typo. Other pages<BR>
> on the same website reference the aircraft<BR>
> as an Su-27.<BR>
>          ^<BR>
<BR>
Same basic plane with improvements. I believe that Su-35 is an Su-27 with <BR>
improvements including canard foreplanes, and Su-37 is a further refinement <BR>
with vectored thrust -- don't quote me on that. All three can do the Cobra, <BR>
and the MiG-29 can do a Cobra from a 30-degree climb - easier than the flat <BR>
Cobra that the Su-series can do. <BR>
<BR>
It's not vectored thrust that makes it possible (the Su-27 doesn't <BR>
have vectored thrust) -- it's more about the intake configuration.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:04:56 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sadistic GMs<BR>
<BR>
Silly me! I didn't metion Traveller once! So:<BR>
ObTraveller: Maybe by some _really weird_ mishap with the jump drive, the <BR>
PCs end up in Ravenloft. Could even battle-armored marines with laser rifles <BR>
handle the subtle power of Count Strahd? Only time may tell...<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: traveller@ient.com<BR>
>Subject: Sadistic GMs<BR>
>Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2000 16:45:38 CDT<BR>
><BR>
>It seems from recent posts that the ultimate goal of the GM is to make the<BR>
>players suffer psychologically as much as possible. Since it _is_ October, <BR>
>I<BR>
>present to you the following:<BR>
><BR>
>I'm planning on playing AD&D (2nd edition) this month, having the players<BR>
>create new characters [two each (I only have two players)] and start them <BR>
>on<BR>
>a typical, run-of-the-mill, hack'n'slash, kill-'til-you-puke, monty haul<BR>
>dungeon adventure.<BR>
><BR>
>Then, I'm going to have them sucked through a magic mirror into Ravenloft,<BR>
>where one of each player's characters will be promptly killed(!).<BR>
><BR>
>Then, their going to find the mayor of the town their in dead and be blamed<BR>
>for his murder.<BR>
><BR>
>Then they're going to kill him (he's a zombie now, BTW).<BR>
><BR>
>Then they're going to meet the vampire who animated his corpse.<BR>
><BR>
>Finally, while their on the run from the vampire, they'll be taken back to<BR>
>Faerun, where they'll be re-united with their other characters, who've been<BR>
>resurrected by the Mists. [I'm going to try to scare my players, but I'm <BR>
>not<BR>
>_cruel_ - besides, I want to use the characters again in a Forgotten Realms<BR>
>campaign (they'll be back to Ravenloft - trust me)]<BR>
><BR>
>-J. Jensen<BR>
>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
><BR>
>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>
>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:18:16 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
<BR>
Thanks David,<BR>
<BR>
They say the mind is the second thing to go......I can't remember the first<BR>
one ;)<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 4:31 PM<BR>
Subject: "Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
><BR>
> Actually the aircraft is the Su-37 "Super Flanker".<BR>
> A number of downloadable movies of the aircraft's maneuvers<BR>
> are available via high speed links at:<BR>
><BR>
> http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAFAQ/display.html<BR>
><BR>
> Links #4 and #14 really show the effectiveness of the "Cobra"<BR>
> maneuver.<BR>
><BR>
> Scared the beejesus out of a couple local pilots when they<BR>
> saw it.  I gotta admit; it's got a high pucker factor for me<BR>
> to.  ;)<BR>
><BR>
> David<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:48:48 -0500<BR>
From: Mark A Nordstrand <markn@visi.com><BR>
Subject: Linux software (slight reprise.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone who grabbed the latest version (0.10.0) of the <BR>
MTU programs from http://www.visi.com/~markn/ and <BR>
couldn't build it, should grab the newest update<BR>
(0.10.1).  I have fixed a couple of things which gave<BR>
versions of g++ beyond 2.91.66 all kinds of problems.<BR>
<BR>
As usual, more information is available on the web <BR>
page.  And screenshots.....   But, if you're going<BR>
to look at those, take a look at the postscript stuff<BR>
as well.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Mark<BR>
<BR>
Socialism is man exploiting man.<BR>
Capitalism is the opposite of Socialism.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:57:26 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden<BR>
<BR>
Dean Jones apparently has it right:<BR>
<BR>
"Dresden (b.1051): Duke of Sanches. Dresden married Princess Lydia in 1092.<BR>
They issued two sons (the twin princes, Varian and Lucan) in 1094."<BR>
<BR>
Library data entry, unattributed, HIWG CD.<BR>
<BR>
"What do we<BR>
know about Corridor Sector? Well in fact there is<BR>
some information knocking about which is very<BR>
useful:<BR>
<BR>
"...Sector Admiral Count Gashema Marsh Kiran<BR>
14th of Kiran [see TS1] is in control of the<BR>
Corridor Fleet on its trek to Dagudashaag. His<BR>
brother, Dresden Kiran, married Princess Lydia, the<BR>
daughter of Emperor Paulo III. They had two sons<BR>
called Varian and Lucan who took their mother's<BR>
name because she was the higher ranking noble."<BR>
<BR>
HD 3106, "First Thoughts on Corridor", David Riddell<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:41:12 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
>Not according to anything Heinlein ever wrote about it. And he *did*<BR>
write several essays that dealt with the things folks kept trying to<BR>
read into the book.<<BR>
<BR>
I haven't read the essays, but I am with Leonard on this.<BR>
I don't see Heinlein endorsing any sort of fascism anywhere in the book.<BR>
Of course, I also don't see him as a Libertarian. He isn't, as he most<BR>
certainly doesn't believe in Rights, natural or otherwise. He always struck<BR>
me as being more of an Anarchist than anything else.<BR>
(Well, until the end where he was a Dirty Old Man more than anything else.)<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:45:00 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
<BR>
Thanks guys/gals - it's fixed now. I followed the directions "Blackjack"<BR>
sent and it went away. Again, thanks to all who posted, Jeff, Thing and of<BR>
course Blackjack. I knew the TML wouldn't let me down.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri, I wasn't *accusing* you, I was just wondering what was going on. It<BR>
didn't start until *I* upgraded to OE ver.5. I never had it happen before<BR>
that. The reason I posted *publicly* was to get help from someone that knew<BR>
more about the setup than I did. Please don't think I was finger pointing, I<BR>
was just looking for an *interpreter* that spoke fluent WINDOZE. (I thought<BR>
I would try Leonard's * * for emphasis.) Hee hee<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 5:32 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
> Mine will do that, but it won't let me send any messages that aren't in<BR>
the<BR>
> default language unless I change all my defaults.  I'd rather not bother<BR>
> with all that.<BR>
> Anyhow, this is an OE-only problem, and two different people have posted<BR>
the<BR>
> fix.  I think it should be addressed to Bill Gates, not me!<BR>
> Thanks anyway!  I think people with OE need to use the fixes Gordon (doumo<BR>
> arigatou) and someone else (whose name is failing me because I am at home<BR>
> right now sick) posted.  Because there are lots of coding systems out<BR>
there,<BR>
> and this is an international list.  IF my posts are causing this problem,<BR>
> someone else's might also.<BR>
> My own machine sometimes hiccups when people send accented European<BR>
> characters in messages (or when I read them on web pages) because it wants<BR>
> to turn them into kanji!  I'm not going to ask them not to do that,<BR>
though.<BR>
> That's just part of life in the global village...<BR>
> Thanks anyway...<BR>
> Kiri  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:07:55 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Veedback, Near Miss and some Shows and Celebrities of the 3I (especially Solomani-heavy cultural regions)<BR>
<BR>
Dan Lane wrote:<BR>
>The following are some ideas I had for major theatrical (holo, sim, etc...)<BR>
>performers:<BR>
><BR>
>"Death is for Lovers" (the third Naamidu-7 feauture)<BR>
>Starring Leyna Tirenthe as Naamidu) at the UoR Reyna Omnium - SharuSim<BR>
<BR>
Wow! Naamidu as a female Vilani first name? Don't scare me like that! I<BR>
might suspect that somebody out there has actually been to my website (which<BR>
I am unfortunately quite delinquent in updating).<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -=-<BR>
Chris Seamans ( semo@pil.net )<BR>
<BR>
"You loved me as a loser, but now you're<BR>
worried that I just might win"<BR>
- - Leonard Cohen, First We Take Manhattan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 22:12:18 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
I haven't read Starship Troopers, or Revolt in 2100 (I'm going to, after I <BR>
finish The Man Who Sold the Moon), but I've read the Green Hills of Earth <BR>
and Time for the Stars (this is a Heinlein book, right? It's been so long <BR>
I'm not entirely sure) and I think they're great.<BR>
<BR>
About Heinlein's political views: I can see why some would see him as <BR>
Libertarian. "Logic of Empire" certainly suggests this, as it shows him as <BR>
clearly pro-freedom. Just _how_ pro-freedom he is isn't dealt with. The <BR>
title, "Revolt in 2100" does suggest Anarchist. Can anyone confirm this?<BR>
<BR>
Also, I have The Man Who Sold the Moon, The Green Hills of Earth, and Revolt <BR>
in 2100/Methuselah's Children. Could anyone tell me what books I need to <BR>
fill in the rest of the stories on the table?<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
ObTraveller: Well, there is the idea of a Traveller Green Hills of Earth <BR>
Campaign I've tossed around before...<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:14:45 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
 sez:<BR>
<BR>
>Sarcasm aside...closed environment on a starship...would spray deodourant gum<BR>
>up<BR>
 the filters? spread throughout the ship? after a month or so in a small ship<BR>
<BR>
>(Scout/Courier) smelling a deodourant that you dislike could you use <BR>
insanity as<BR>
<BR>
>a defence when you space them and their stinky armpits?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>You get the Idea...<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
 Obvious fodder for merchant/liner-based campaigns, as the occasional <BR>
passenger will insist that the ship-provided deodorants and/or sanitation <BR>
supplies "will not do," particularly if the insisted upon replacement is <BR>
annoying, irritating, damaging to life systems and/or illegal ("Cannabis #5" <BR>
anyone?). And you thought annoying cargoes were fun...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:09:51<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Goth Cub Scouts<BR>
<BR>
At 11:42 PM 10/10/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>So I get to see what I would have looked like as a Cub Goth?<BR>
<BR>
Oh, wait until you see what we're getting the Norster for Hanakwazmas.  Do<BR>
the names John Kovalic and Gilly, the Perky Goth mean anything to you?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:49:55 -0700<BR>
From: "Trent Smith" <trentfs@ix.netcom.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
James Jensen <cheeb0@hotmail.com> wrote:<BR>
> About Heinlein's political views: I can see why some would see him as<BR>
> Libertarian. "Logic of Empire" certainly suggests this, as it shows him as<BR>
> clearly pro-freedom. Just _how_ pro-freedom he is isn't dealt with. The<BR>
> title, "Revolt in 2100" does suggest Anarchist. Can anyone confirm this?<BR>
<BR>
The stories in "Revolt in 2100" are actually among Heinlein's earliest work,<BR>
and IMO there's not much philosophy (aside from some swipes at some pretty<BR>
obvious targets) in them.  "Methuselah's Children" is also pretty much<BR>
straight action-adventure space opera (which is emphatically Not a Bad<BR>
Thing, just maybe not what you're looking for).  If you want Heinlein's<BR>
philosophy, the first stop has to be 'Stranger in a Strange Land'<BR>
(preferably, IMO again, the posthumously-published Uncut edition): as Kiri's<BR>
.sig says, "Thou art God!"<BR>
<BR>
> Also, I have The Man Who Sold the Moon, The Green Hills of Earth, and<BR>
Revolt<BR>
> in 2100/Methuselah's Children. Could anyone tell me what books I need to<BR>
> fill in the rest of the stories on the table?<BR>
<BR>
Depending on how old your copy of "The Man Who Sold the Moon" is, it may be<BR>
missing a couple of stories ("Lifeline" and "Blowups Happen").  These<BR>
stories are absolutely essential, and can be found in "The Worlds of Robert<BR>
A. Heinlein" (which is long out-of-print) and "Expanded Universe" (a hefty<BR>
collection of Heinlein's essays and stories (including several non-SF), all<BR>
with running commentary written by RAH c. 1980 -- a must for Heinlein fans,<BR>
but probably too much for casual readers).  Two excellent later stories:<BR>
"The Menace from Earth" (found in the book of that title, which also has<BR>
several very good non-'future history' stories) and "Searchlight" (which I<BR>
describe as 'word for word the greatest SF story of all time' -- it only has<BR>
about 1200 words; also found in the aforementioned "Worlds of..." and<BR>
"Expanded Universe") were added to the timeline at the time when the 'future<BR>
history' was collected as "The Past Through Tomorrow" (currently<BR>
out-of-print).  The story-and-sequel "Universe" and "Common Sense"<BR>
(collected as "Orphans of the Sky" -- also out-of-print) are on the timeline<BR>
but are actually pretty-much independent of the 'history' (anyone who knows<BR>
TSR's ancient SFRPG "Metamorphosis Alpha" will find these stories very<BR>
familiar).  Other than those, there are several titles listed on the<BR>
timeline which were never actually written as stories.  Heinlein's<BR>
postscript to "Revolt in 2100" gives descriptions of what some of those<BR>
stories would've contained, though, in case you're curious.<BR>
<BR>
Hope this helps.  Apologies to fadetozero, Paul Sanders, and all the lurkers<BR>
for the non-Trav-content, but really, when you're talking about SF, can<BR>
Heinlein ever be Truly Off-Topic?<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:18:38 -0500<BR>
From: tim@premier.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> ><BR>
<BR>
> >I never even *thought* of Friday while watching the show.<BR>
<BR>
> ><BR>
<BR>
> Me neither-- and I like that book.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</color>I also didn't think of Friday but the more recent hero's of cyberpunk <BR>
stories.<BR>
<BR>
<color><param>7F00,0000,0000</param>> <BR>
<BR>
> Actually I was more reminded of Yours Truly from Snow Crash and the bike<BR>
<BR>
> messengers in Virtual Light.<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</color><bigger>Regrettably<smaller> I think this series is about 5 years to late.  <BR>
<BR>
The story is full of dated cyperpunk cliches. <BR>
<BR>
But it does intrigues me enough to keep me watching in hopes that <BR>
as the characters are developed something magical might happen.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
so I am hooked as well<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<nofill><BR>
Tim Reynolds<BR>
tim@premier.net <BR>
225-334-5063<BR>
www.premier.net/~tim<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through<BR>
the air, invisible<BR>
And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.<BR>
In that case, the prize went to the best dancer<BR>
Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:13:04 -0500<BR>
From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
On 10/11/00 at 10:12 PM,  "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> said:<BR>
<BR>
>I haven't read Starship Troopers, or Revolt in 2100 (I'm going to,<BR>
>after I  finish The Man Who Sold the Moon), but I've read the Green<BR>
>Hills of Earth  and Time for the Stars (this is a Heinlein book,<BR>
>right? It's been so long  I'm not entirely sure) and I think<BR>
>they're great.<BR>
<BR>
>About Heinlein's political views: I can see why some would see him<BR>
>as  Libertarian. "Logic of Empire" certainly suggests this, as it<BR>
>shows him as  clearly pro-freedom. Just _how_ pro-freedom he is<BR>
>isn't dealt with. The  title, "Revolt in 2100" does suggest<BR>
>Anarchist. Can anyone confirm this?<BR>
<BR>
No, not exactly.  Wasn't "Revolt in 2100" about a revolt against<BR>
asian conquorers of the US, or was that a different one?  I know he<BR>
did a book with a title *like* that dealing with a universe where<BR>
reincarnation was proven to exist, that was an interesting detour.<BR>
Or was it the collection that followed the revolt agasint<BR>
facist-religious fundimentalism?  Anyway, take a look at "Farnum's<BR>
Freehold", for RAH's take on racism and prejudice in general.<BR>
<BR>
I'd say Heinlein believed in self-reliance, *self* government, and<BR>
civility.  Libertarian, perhaps, but not in any formal sense.  I'd<BR>
call him Jeffersonian, as in "the least government is the best<BR>
government", but not *no* government.<BR>
<BR>
>Also, I have The Man Who Sold the Moon, The Green Hills of Earth,<BR>
>and Revolt  in 2100/Methuselah's Children. Could anyone tell me<BR>
>what books I need to  fill in the rest of the stories on the table?<BR>
<BR>
You should read "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and the collection<BR>
"The Past through Tommorrow."  Heck!  Read it ALL!  "Time Enough for<BR>
Love" is *much* too long and ...dare I say it...self-indulgent, but<BR>
it's worth the effort just to get the bits and pieces, the gems<BR>
hidden amist the dross.  Personally, I think the first half of "The<BR>
Number of the Beast" is a great book, and probably had a lot to do<BR>
with the premise for the TV series Sliders, though that's just<BR>
opinion.  The second half is...well, I can't decide if it's a<BR>
product of his illness or an inside joke that doesn't ring true for<BR>
me.  "Friday" and *particularly* "Job:  A Comedy of Errors" are<BR>
underrated, IMO, and should be read thoughtfully.  "Job" harkens<BR>
back to things RAH first explored in "Strangers in a Strange Land"<BR>
and provides a kind of closure to that universe.  "Friday" does the<BR>
same with the classic short story "Gulf" from the '40's...and *that*<BR>
one still gives me chills.  RAH's last novel, "The Cat that Walked<BR>
Through Walls" was pretty weak, but he was in bad shape by then, I<BR>
think.<BR>
<BR>
Heinlein isn't the only American science fiction author, but his<BR>
work is a very large footprint in the genre.  Read Asimov and Poul<BR>
Anderson, Niven and Pournelle.  Read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" by<BR>
Miller.  Search out anything by Edgar Pangborn, an author, almost<BR>
forgotten, whos "Davy" and "The Judgement of Eve" are masterpieces<BR>
of SF.  Personally, I don't like Bradberry, but his books are a<BR>
*must* read.  Then there people like Edmund Hamilton, L Sprague de<BR>
Camp and a host of others from the '40's and '50's that produced<BR>
entertaining and thoughtful work.<BR>
<BR>
Hum, I think I should stop now. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:17:56 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:21:23 PST<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's writing?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Starship Troopers.<BR>
<BR>
Oh ostensibly the government is a democracy with a limited franchise.<BR>
But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged veterans of the<BR>
military it would tend to take on the charecter of a fascist state.<BR>
Particularly<BR>
because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash opponents<BR>
of the current political system out of the military before enfranchisement.<BR>
<BR>
Starship Troopers was the first Heinlein book I read (at the insistence of<BR>
a friend of mine who insited that the government in the book was the<BR>
perfect type of government.) I *almost* didn't read another Heinlein book<BR>
because of the (IMHO) specious politics presented. Luckilly I took a<BR>
chance on *The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress* and I've now read all of<BR>
RAH's books I've been able to find (with the exception of  *Sixth Collumn*<BR>
which I own but haven't gotten into yet.)<BR>
<BR>
I reread ST some years ago thinking that maybe it wasn't as obnoxiously<BR>
fascist as I remebered. It was but it made a wonderfull lead in to<BR>
Harrison's<BR>
*Bill the Galactic Hero* a book I heartily recomend.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:00:52 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Thom Harris wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri, I wasn't *accusing* you, I was just wondering what was going on. It<BR>
> didn't start until *I* upgraded to OE ver.5. I never had it happen before<BR>
> that. <BR>
<BR>
OK, Thom, I didn't actually think so and sorry if it sounded that way.  I<BR>
may come off as slightly oversensitive because I was heavily flamed<BR>
recently on a local Goth list for daring not to have an English-only<BR>
computer.<BR>
<BR>
Being on the Goth list and this one at the same time is interesting.  The<BR>
same topics have been appearing on both lately, and I don't just mean the<BR>
music one.  I sometimes am not quite sure what list I'm replying to.<BR>
There's also a local polyamory list that overlaps with the Goth list and<BR>
it's really funny but the topics on all three lists tend to overlap,<BR>
except that there are no ObTravs on the other two lists.<BR>
<BR>
LOL<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:03:38 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 GypsyComet@aol.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>  Obvious fodder for merchant/liner-based campaigns, as the occasional<BR>
> passenger will insist that the ship-provided deodorants and/or<BR>
> sanitation supplies "will not do," particularly if the insisted upon<BR>
> replacement is annoying, irritating, damaging to life systems and/or<BR>
> illegal ("Cannabis #5"  anyone?). And you thought annoying cargoes<BR>
> were fun...<BR>
> <BR>
LOL.<BR>
<BR>
I never use anything on my hair but Oshima Tsubaki Conditioning Shampoo.<BR>
And that's the truth!  Now I feel like a troublemaker!<BR>
<BR>
(If you have long black hair of a certain texture and wish to keep it,<BR>
Oshima Tsubaki is the way to go.  Several of my female friends say that<BR>
it's an obaasan, or granny, shampoo, but those grannies also have long<BR>
glossy black hair and I want to still have mine when I am their age!)<BR>
<BR>
However, to my knowledge, Oshima Tsubaki is not harmful to plumbing or to<BR>
other lifeforms.  The biggest danger from using it is that my cat will<BR>
want to lick your wet hair.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:06:02 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Trent Smith wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> The stories in "Revolt in 2100" are actually among Heinlein's earliest<BR>
> work, and IMO there's not much philosophy (aside from some swipes at<BR>
> some pretty obvious targets) in them.  "Methuselah's Children" is also<BR>
> pretty much straight action-adventure space opera (which is<BR>
> emphatically Not a Bad Thing, just maybe not what you're looking for).  <BR>
> If you want Heinlein's philosophy, the first stop has to be 'Stranger<BR>
> in a Strange Land' (preferably, IMO again, the posthumously-published<BR>
> Uncut edition): as Kiri's .sig says, "Thou art God!"<BR>
><BR>
Actually the CAW, to which I belong, prefers the original version.  The<BR>
original "cut" version was the one RAH himself liked, and the one with the<BR>
long anti-jealousy rant; I am told by CAW elders that the newer version<BR>
was the one that was preferred by his wife, who wasn't always comfortable<BR>
with the sexual ethos of most of her husband's later works.  I don't know<BR>
if this is true; it's just what I've been told.  I like them both and<BR>
don't see much difference between them.<BR>
 <BR>
Fukaku nominasai (drink deeply)<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3145<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 12 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3146<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Goth Cub Scouts<BR>
Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
RE: "Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3144<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
Last Call Traveller Items For Sale<BR>
Re: Veedback, Near Miss and some Shows and Celebrities of the 3I (especially Solomani-heavy cultural regions)<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:05:46 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne wrote,<BR>
>Particularly<BR>
because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash opponents<BR>
of the current political system out of the military before enfranchisement.<<BR>
<BR>
Not in the copy I read. In fact, the opposite was true as they stated that<BR>
prior to the war with the Bugs most people who joined did little more than<BR>
sit on their butts in garrison for four years before leaving and getting<BR>
their citizenship. The only thing people washed out of because of a lack of<BR>
political acumen was the officer's school. But since the ideal was<BR>
responsibility that hardly seems like an indictment of such a standard.<BR>
I also think you are pointedly ignoring the place in the book where Raschek<BR>
(quite different from the character in the movie though I think Michael<BR>
Ironsides is awesome) directly denies any claim to perfection of their<BR>
system. He states it is no such thing, it is merely their system and so the<BR>
students are expected to learn about it.<BR>
This is opposed to anything featuring Lazarus Long where Heinlein engages in<BR>
serious political pontificating.<BR>
<BR>
No, I don't see any big message in ST beyond one man learning about<BR>
responsibility and his place in his world. There are some general lessons<BR>
perhaps, but there is definitely no paean to fascism in that book.<BR>
<BR>
I'd hate to think how Requiem would fare held to this sort of analysis.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:44:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Goth Cub Scouts<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 21:09:51, "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Oh, wait until you see what we're getting the Norster for Hanakwazmas.  Do<BR>
>the names John Kovalic and Gilly, the Perky Goth mean anything to you?<BR>
<BR>
They do to me, and I'm already quaking in fear.<BR>
<BR>
Let's see if I can return the favor:  "Ditzie the Perky Goth."<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair            I'd start running NOW, if I were you.<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:55:11 -0700<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>   The biggest danger from using it is that my cat will<BR>
> want to lick your wet hair.<BR>
<BR>
Or my pet peeve Cats or star ships.... Imagine being locked<BR>
up with walking allergens.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
When Spring comes back with rustling shade,<BR>
And apple blossoms fills the air,<BR>
I have a rendezvous with Death,<BR>
When spring brings back blue days and fair.<BR>
 Legionnaire Alan Seeger, KIA the Somme.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:41:11 -0700<BR>
From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> >   The biggest danger from using it is that my cat will<BR>
> > want to lick your wet hair.<BR>
><BR>
> Or my pet peeve Cats or<BR>
<BR>
on<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Evyn...<BR>
<BR>
C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR>
<BR>
When Spring comes back with rustling shade,<BR>
And apple blossoms fills the air,<BR>
I have a rendezvous with Death,<BR>
When spring brings back blue days and fair.<BR>
 Legionnaire Alan Seeger, KIA the Somme.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:10:15 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: "Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
<BR>
David Smart Wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> Actually the aircraft is the Su-37 "Super Flanker".<BR>
> A number of downloadable movies of the aircraft's maneuvers<BR>
> are available via high speed links at:<BR>
> <BR>
> http://aeroweb.lucia.it/~agretch/RAFAQ/display.html<BR>
> <BR>
> Links #4 and #14 really show the effectiveness of the "Cobra"<BR>
> maneuver.<BR>
> <BR>
> Scared the beejesus out of a couple local pilots when they<BR>
> saw it.  I gotta admit; it's got a high pucker factor for me<BR>
> to.  ;)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Wow. That's all I have to say about that.<BR>
<BR>
Forrest<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:41:36 +0100<BR>
From: "MJ Dougherty" <martinjd@globalnet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3144<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 15:31:31 -0500<BR>
>From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com><BR>
>Subject: "Cobra" Maneuver Movies Online! (was Re: Military Tourism)<BR>
><BR>
>Bruce Johnson posted:<BR>
>><BR>
>> Actually 'The Cobra' is a viable maneuver on Mig 29's (?) (maybe it's<BR>
>> the 27?), but few other aircraft in the world because they have some<BR>
>> fairly robust exhaust redirection. It also gives them considereably<BR>
>> shortened takeoff speeds and better all around agility.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Think: Harrier's on meth.<BR>
>><BR>
>> I've seen film of more than one of their pilots doing it...wow! In ATA<BR>
>> combat that would be a royal pain to have pulled on you.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Blink and poof the bogey is not only behind you, but on your<BR>
>> tail, fired<BR>
>> a missile and is turning down and away, out of reach. BOOM! Being able<BR>
>> to come, more or less, to a dead stop and maintain control is a GOOD<BR>
>> thing in dogfighting.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I have seen this maneuver performed, at a height of about 100 feet, right in<BR>
front of me (I was right at the front-centre of the Sunderland air show,<BR>
standing on top of a little baby cliff thing. The planes were performing<BR>
just out into the sea.) IT was... decidedly... strange to see, and very<BR>
scary.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In fact, I think I've seen it done twice....<BR>
<BR>
MJD<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:57:46 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote: <BR>
<BR>
> Heinlein isn't the only American science fiction author, but his<BR>
> work is a very large footprint in the genre.  Read Asimov and Poul<BR>
> Anderson, Niven and Pournelle.  Read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" by<BR>
> Miller.  Search out anything by Edgar Pangborn, an author, almost<BR>
> forgotten, whos "Davy" and "The Judgement of Eve" are masterpieces of<BR>
> SF.  Personally, I don't like Bradberry, but his books are a *must*<BR>
> read.  Then there people like Edmund Hamilton, L Sprague de Camp and a<BR>
> host of others from the '40's and '50's that produced entertaining and<BR>
> thoughtful work.<BR>
<BR>
While I dislike much of what Heinlein write, his influence on US SF <BR>
is profound.  I agree that Asimov and Anderson certainly also <BR>
belong on that list, as does Niven (although much later).  Pournelle <BR>
though?  His work written with Niven is OK, but less good than <BR>
Niven alone, and his solo works are both few and honestly rather <BR>
dreadful.  <BR>
<BR>
I heartily agree that Edgar Pangborn deserves to be on that list (he <BR>
is IMHO vastly underread), as does deCamp. Edmund Hamilton is <BR>
fun, but less influential.  I would also add Clifford Simak, <BR>
Cordwainer Smith, Jack Vance, and especially Andre Norton to the <BR>
list of early highly influential SF writers.  If you're including folks of <BR>
Niven's era, then both Ursula LeGuin & Roger Zelazny should also <BR>
certainly be added to the list of highly influential American SF <BR>
writers.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:14:08 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
From: Samuel D. Weiss <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
<BR>
>I haven't read the essays, but I am with Leonard on this.<BR>
>I don't see Heinlein endorsing any sort of fascism anywhere in the book.<BR>
>Of course, I also don't see him as a Libertarian. He isn't, as he most<BR>
>certainly doesn't believe in Rights, natural or otherwise. He always struck<BR>
>me as being more of an Anarchist than anything else.<BR>
>(Well, until the end where he was a Dirty Old Man more than anything else.)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Sam,<BR>
<BR>
    Read the Lazus Long/Howard Family books & stories.  There you will read<BR>
more about who Heinlein was than anything else.  He believed in a lot of<BR>
things.  No, he wasn't a Fascist.  No, he wasn't a Libertarian.  He was who<BR>
he was, an American raised in the shadow of the depression & WWI.  He was<BR>
not a well educated man, before he went to the Naval Academy & there he<BR>
struggled to have the same level of education as the other cadets.  But, he<BR>
did believe in one thing, that the Rights of a Man (or Woman) are what he<BR>
(or she) makes for himself (or herself).<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:43:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I haven't read Starship Troopers, or Revolt in 2100 (I'm going to, after I <BR>
> finish The Man Who Sold the Moon), but I've read the Green Hills of Earth <BR>
> and Time for the Stars (this is a Heinlein book, right? It's been so long <BR>
> I'm not entirely sure) and I think they're great.<BR>
<BR>
"Starship Troopers" is independent of any of the books other than<BR>
Heinlein's last few where he strts playing with multiple universes and<BR>
tieing everything he ever wrote together.<BR>
<BR>
The same goes for most of the juveniles. "Space Cadet" is set in what<BR>
could be an alternate timeline that branched off the "Future History"<BR>
timeline. <BR>
<BR>
> About Heinlein's political views: I can see why some would see him as <BR>
> Libertarian. "Logic of Empire" certainly suggests this, as it shows him as <BR>
> clearly pro-freedom. Just _how_ pro-freedom he is isn't dealt with. The <BR>
> title, "Revolt in 2100" does suggest Anarchist. Can anyone confirm this?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Revolt in 2100 is about a revolt against a religious dictatorship<BR>
in the US. Heinlein's "Future History" timeline has the Crazy Years<BR>
ending when a a tele-evangelist (Nehmiah Scudder) is elected President.<BR>
As a comment in some other story put it "[Scudder] was elected in 19??.<BR>
there was no election in [4 years later]"<BR>
<BR>
> Also, I have The Man Who Sold the Moon, The Green Hills of Earth, and Revolt <BR>
> in 2100/Methuselah's Children. Could anyone tell me what books I need to <BR>
> fill in the rest of the stories on the table?<BR>
<BR>
There are some websites that should have a list of what books have what<BR>
stories. I can't find my list, and most of my library is in storage :-(<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 00:20:23 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au><BR>
>  sez:<BR>
><BR>
>> Sarcasm aside...closed environment on a starship...would spray<BR>
>> deodourant gum up the filters? spread throughout the ship? after a<BR>
>> month or so in a small ship<BR>
<BR>
Not with any decent filters. There are some problems with airborne<BR>
contaminants IN ZERO GEE.<BR>
<BR>
>  Obvious fodder for merchant/liner-based campaigns, as the occasional <BR>
> passenger will insist that the ship-provided deodorants and/or sanitation <BR>
> supplies "will not do," particularly if the insisted upon replacement is <BR>
> annoying, irritating, damaging to life systems and/or illegal ("Cannabis #5" <BR>
> anyone?). And you thought annoying cargoes were fun...<BR>
<BR>
The Imperial equivalent of OSHA or other "safety" agencies will likely<BR>
have some regulations on the matter, *if* it's known to be a problem.<BR>
<BR>
And I can *guarantee* that the standard "contract" for passage (aka<BR>
"ticket") has clauses to the effect:<BR>
<BR>
"If the passenger or their belongings interfere with life support or<BR>
other critical (as defined by the Captain/owner) ship's functions, the<BR>
ship's Captain may take such measures as are necessary IN HIS JUDGEMENT<BR>
to eliminate the problem."<BR>
<BR>
In short, unless it can be shown that the Captain *knew* that the<BR>
measures he took were "excessive" or unnecessary, there won't be a<BR>
thing the passenger can do about it. <BR>
<BR>
In fact, trying to sue the Captain or the line is likely to get that<BR>
passenger listed as "trouble", which means he may have some real<BR>
problems getting a ship at that port to take him.<BR>
<BR>
Which opens up possibilities for negotiating a *non-standard* contract<BR>
(at much higher rates, if the PCs have any brains) or for the passenger<BR>
to try to continue his journey under a false ID. <BR>
<BR>
And for that matter, even if the law is on the Captain's side, the<BR>
passenger will still be a royal pain for the remainder of the trip, and<BR>
may be able to cause the PCs other sorts of trouble. Say a high Soc<BR>
passenger bad mouthing the PCs to his social circle, or someone with<BR>
the riight sort of "connections" using "extra-legal" methods to gain<BR>
revenge. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 23:59:21 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> <snip><BR>
><BR>
>>Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's writing?<BR>
><BR>
> Starship Troopers.<BR>
><BR>
> Oh ostensibly the government is a democracy with a limited franchise.<BR>
> But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged veterans of the<BR>
> military it would tend to take on the charecter of a fascist state.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but you weren't paying attention. The franchise is limited to<BR>
people who have completed a term of *government/public* service, *not*<BR>
merely to military vets.<BR>
<BR>
This is *explicitly* stated several times. <BR>
<BR>
> Particularly because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash<BR>
> opponents of the current political system out of the military before<BR>
> enfranchisement.<BR>
<BR>
And you aren't required to join the military to get the vote, nor did I<BR>
see any such tendency. Not unless you are confusing opposing the<BR>
current political system with "failure to obey orders or being a<BR>
discipline problem.<BR>
<BR>
> Starship Troopers was the first Heinlein book I read (at the insistence of<BR>
> a friend of mine who insited that the government in the book was the<BR>
> perfect type of government.) I *almost* didn't read another Heinlein book<BR>
> because of the (IMHO) specious politics presented.<BR>
<BR>
I strongly suggest that you go back and pay careful attention to what<BR>
Heinlein actually *wrote* in the sections where he's talking about<BR>
earning the franchise. <BR>
<BR>
Yes, Juan is only interested in the military (he refers to the other<BR>
options as "booby prizes". But there is mention of some of the options.<BR>
<BR>
Just a few examples (in my words, but the jobs were all clearly<BR>
mentioned):<BR>
<BR>
Being staff (including things like dishwasher) at an Antarctic research<BR>
base.<BR>
<BR>
Being a lab assistant.<BR>
<BR>
etc.<BR>
<BR>
Hell, to use an example from recent history, being a Peace Corps<BR>
volunteer would count!<BR>
<BR>
I suspect if you go back and just read the book without looking for an<BR>
agenda, you may feel differently about it.<BR>
<BR>
> Luckilly I took a chance on *The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress* and I've<BR>
> now read all of RAH's books I've been able to find (with the exception<BR>
> of *Sixth Collumn* which I own but haven't gotten into yet.)<BR>
<BR>
There's a hard to find John W. Campbell story (printed in a collection<BR>
in the mid to late 70s) called "All". It's a story Campbell wrote, and<BR>
then never published, but then turned around and described the story to<BR>
Heinlein, suggesting that if Heinlein wrote it, he (Campbell) would buy<BR>
it.<BR>
<BR>
The result was "Sixth Column". And reading Campbell's version pretty<BR>
much takes care of the usual criticisms that "Sixth Column" is "racist"<BR>
or "weirdly mystical". Because the Campbell version is *way* over the<BR>
top in both respects. Not only is it very racist (as opposed to<BR>
Henlein's where it's the Pan-Asain *culture* that's bad, not "Asians"<BR>
in general. Pay attention to the Americans of Asian descent in<BR>
Heinlein's version), but in Campbell's version it would appear that the<BR>
"good guys" *believe* the religion! In Heinlein's version, the only one<BR>
who does is a nutcase (a not so subtle slam at the original?)<BR>
<BR>
> I reread ST some years ago thinking that maybe it wasn't as obnoxiously<BR>
> fascist as I remebered. It was but it made a wonderfull lead in to<BR>
> Harrison's *Bill the Galactic Hero* a book I heartily recomend.<BR>
<BR>
No offense, but if you missed the fact that it wasn't *just* miltiary<BR>
service that got you the right to vote, then you weren't paying<BR>
attention. <BR>
<BR>
I saw that the first time I read it. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:07:18 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
On 12 Oct 2000, at 0:13, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
ot exactly.  Wasn't "Revolt in 2100" about a revolt against<BR>
> asian conquorers of the US, or was that a different one?<BR>
<BR>
No that was called "The Sixth Column" or something like that, IIRC (it was also <BR>
published under another title that I can't remember at all). "Revolt in 2100" <BR>
was about the over-throw of a religious dictatorship that had control of the <BR>
US. It also contained a couple of other stories, one of which contained the <BR>
first appearance of Libby.<BR>
<BR>
> I'd say Heinlein believed in self-reliance, *self* government, and<BR>
> civility.  Libertarian, perhaps, but not in any formal sense.  I'd<BR>
> call him Jeffersonian, as in "the least government is the best<BR>
> government", but not *no* government.<BR>
<BR>
For this also see "The Day After Tomorrow."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Heinlein isn't the only American science fiction author, but his<BR>
> work is a very large footprint in the genre.  Read Asimov and Poul<BR>
> Anderson, Niven and Pournelle.  Read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" by<BR>
> Miller.  Search out anything by Edgar Pangborn, an author, almost<BR>
> forgotten, whos "Davy" and "The Judgement of Eve" are masterpieces<BR>
> of SF.  Personally, I don't like Bradberry, but his books are a<BR>
> *must* read.  Then there people like Edmund Hamilton, L Sprague de<BR>
> Camp and a host of others from the '40's and '50's that produced<BR>
> entertaining and thoughtful work.<BR>
> <BR>
> Hum, I think I should stop now. <g><BR>
<BR>
No, no, there are many, many more - Damon Knight, Eric Frank Russel (now <BR>
there's someone who was seriously anti-authority), Cliff Simak (City <BR>
especially, though I liked Way Station a lot too) and A. E. Van Vogt (a <BR>
wonderful source of game plots - they blow younger player's minds quite <BR>
spectacularly) just for starters. I could go on and on, but I can't remember <BR>
all the names, and my father's collection is 100 miles away, so I can't check <BR>
it out. Oh yes - don't forget a british guy by the name of Arthur C. Clarke's <BR>
stuff, either. His short stories, in particular, are excellent.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:12:07 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
On 12 Oct 2000, at 1:17, DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:21:23 PST<BR>
> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> <snip><BR>
> <BR>
> >Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's writing?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Starship Troopers.<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh ostensibly the government is a democracy with a limited franchise.<BR>
> But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged veterans of the<BR>
> military it would tend to take on the charecter of a fascist state.<BR>
<BR>
All this does is make it an oligarchy. I'm at a loss as to why citizen's having <BR>
undergone military (though not all do military service) make them into <BR>
fascists. Many classical nations required military service from their citizens, <BR>
and they weren't fascists, so presumeably it's the requirement to serve first <BR>
that causes this transformation.<BR>
<BR>
 Particularly<BR>
> because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash opponents of the current<BR>
> political system out of the military before enfranchisement.<BR>
<BR>
Where'd this come from? I've never seen this in ST.<BR>
 <BR>
> Starship Troopers was the first Heinlein book I read (at the insistence of<BR>
> a friend of mine who insited that the government in the book was the<BR>
> perfect type of government.) <BR>
<BR>
Now that I don't agree with (it being a perfect government).<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:18:36 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
On 12 Oct 2000, at 2:05, Samuel D. Weiss wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> David Shayne wrote,<BR>
> >Particularly<BR>
> because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash opponents<BR>
> of the current political system out of the military before enfranchisement.<<BR>
> <BR>
> Not in the copy I read. In fact, the opposite was true as they stated that<BR>
> prior to the war with the Bugs most people who joined did little more than<BR>
> sit on their butts in garrison for four years before leaving and getting<BR>
> their citizenship.<BR>
<BR>
Two years, not four - even softer.<BR>
<BR>
> The only thing people washed out of because of a lack of<BR>
> political acumen was the officer's school.<BR>
<BR>
The funny thing is that the officers were by and large career men who wouldn't <BR>
be voting until they retired twenty odd years down the track. At least it <BR>
ensures that the ones who're doing most of your military planning back the <BR>
system they're defending.<BR>
<BR>
> But since the ideal was<BR>
> responsibility that hardly seems like an indictment of such a standard. I also<BR>
> think you are pointedly ignoring the place in the book where Raschek (quite<BR>
> different from the character in the movie though I think Michael Ironsides is<BR>
> awesome) directly denies any claim to perfection of their system. He states it<BR>
> is no such thing, it is merely their system and so the students are expected to<BR>
> learn about it.<BR>
<BR>
He also note that it works, unlike ours, which didn't :)<BR>
<BR>
> No, I don't see any big message in ST beyond one man learning about<BR>
> responsibility and his place in his world. There are some general lessons<BR>
> perhaps, but there is definitely no paean to fascism in that book.<BR>
<BR>
Besides it's got to be about the loosest fascism to ever grace the printed word <BR>
- - all you have to do if you don't like it is to get a mob of like minded <BR>
friends, join up and in two years run for office.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:25:53 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
On 11 Oct 2000, at 23:55, Evyn MacDude wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >   The biggest danger from using it is that my cat will<BR>
> > want to lick your wet hair.<BR>
> <BR>
> Or my pet peeve Cats or star ships.... Imagine being locked<BR>
> up with walking allergens.<BR>
<BR>
Sounds better than RL to me. Hayfever all summer compared to having to fight a <BR>
cat for dinner - no competition, I'll have the cat for dinner, thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
"Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:16:05 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Les Howie <travgrognard@yahoo.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
"DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
>>Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:21:23 PST<BR>
>>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><snip><BR>
<BR>
>>Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's<BR>
writing?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
I think you are using a pretty loose definition of<BR>
fascism, at least as far as the book goes.  IIRC<BR>
Fascism in the German/Italian/Spanish model was<BR>
characterized by (1) extreme (racially defined)<BR>
nationalism (2) direct and extreme suppression of<BR>
opponents of the regime (3) close cooperation between<BR>
business interests and government.<BR>
<BR>
Heinlein's earth is definitely non-racist. <BR>
Interestingly, even Rico's comments about the skinnies<BR>
and bugs seem reasonably mild compared to, say, some<BR>
of the things German generals wrote about Russians.<BR>
<BR>
While you have to cooperate with the system to get<BR>
ahead easily, under what system of government is that<BR>
NOT true? I can't recall any of Rico's friends getting<BR>
"disappeared."<BR>
<BR>
And Rico's father seems to be somehow in "business,"<BR>
and want his son to go to business school, but is NOT<BR>
a citizen:  Clearly he does not think you need to be a<BR>
"party member" to succeed.<BR>
<BR>
The only twinge of fascism might be taken if we seen<BR>
"History and Moral Philosophy" as a brainwashing<BR>
system;  it is not portrayed that way.<BR>
<BR>
I have always thought that Heilein's strength in that<BR>
book (and in others, "Starman Jones" is a good<BR>
example) is to show us a society totally unlike our<BR>
own from the point of view of a member of that society<BR>
who considers in completely natural.  I do not think<BR>
we have any grounds to take that as Heilein's<BR>
ENDORSEMENT of that society.<BR>
<BR>
_______________________________________________________<BR>
Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 06:15:35 -0500<BR>
From: "Dorfman, Steven, Maj" <Steven.Dorfman@mcconnell.af.mil><BR>
Subject: Last Call Traveller Items For Sale<BR>
<BR>
Last call for Traveller items before I offer them up to ebay.  I still have<BR>
some grenadier 25mm and Martian Metals 15 mm minis available and a umber of<BR>
modules, traveller related games, adventures, and misc.<BR>
<BR>
email:  steven.dorfman@mcconnell.af.mil<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 07:30:42 -0400<BR>
From: "Dan Lane" <danielrlane@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Veedback, Near Miss and some Shows and Celebrities of the 3I (especially Solomani-heavy cultural regions)<BR>
<BR>
Chris Seamans wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Wow! Naamidu as a female Vilani first name? Don't scare me like that! I<BR>
> might suspect that somebody out there has actually been to my website<BR>
(which<BR>
> I am unfortunately quite delinquent in updating).<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I just kind of thought about the fw Vil female names (Gam, etc..)<BR>
that we have and somehow based it on that.  Where's your web site?  <drewl><BR>
<BR>
- -Dan Lane<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:04:11 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
> From: "DaveShayne" <BR>
> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> >Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's writing?<BR>
> Starship Troopers.<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh ostensibly the government is a democracy with a limited franchise.<BR>
> But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged veterans of<BR>
> the military it would tend to take on the charecter of a fascist state.<BR>
> Particularly because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash<BR>
> opponents of the current political system out of the military before<BR>
> enfranchisement.<BR>
<BR>
One very authoritarian concept it exhibits is that the citizen exists to<BR>
serve the state, not that the state exists to serve the citizen.  This kind<BR>
of idea stems from societies run by elites, where the common citizen is<BR>
ruled and not a ruler, whatever the formal constitutional structures.<BR>
<BR>
Libertarianism, incidentally, has pretty much the same premise:  The state<BR>
is inherently something distinct from and counterposed to its citizens. <BR>
That is, there is no such thing as a true democracy.<BR>
<BR>
On RH's politics:  I vaguely recall an essay by Asimov, in which he<BR>
describes something of a split amongst the early SF writers, back before<BR>
WW2 when there were so few of them that they all were young and knew each<BR>
other. There was a liberal group, including Asimov and Clarke, who viewed<BR>
fascism as a greater threat than "communism", and a conservative group,<BR>
including Heinlein, that viewed "communism" as a greater threat than<BR>
fascism.  This essay would have been in one of the collections of such<BR>
things that are out there....<BR>
<BR>
Other good early writers:  H Beam Piper, especially Space Viking(!!!!),<BR>
and, of course, "the Doc" - E E Smith, by Klono's polyester leisure<BR>
suit!(*)<BR>
<BR>
OBTRAV:  as someone said:  Heinlein!<BR>
<BR>
One of these days I am going to work out how to come up with interesting<BR>
scenarios in a society a bit like that in Iain Banks' Culture books... <BR>
Banks does it, but novel plotlines and RPG scenarios aren't the same thing.<BR>
 (Come to think of it, I'm not much good at designing scenarios in<BR>
general.)  I guess the approach would be to look at the similarities<BR>
between Banks' work and other space operas, because when you get down to<BR>
it, that is what the Culture books are, once you get behind the neato jokes<BR>
and stuff.<BR>
<BR>
I am not going to think any more about this, because the idea of<BR>
cross-pollinating the Culture and the Lensman books is making me dizzy.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
(*) Joke from GURPS Lensman, not me.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3146<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 12 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3147<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
Re: DRESDEN<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Cobra viability<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Goth Cub Scouts<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: DRESDEN<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:48:28 -0400<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
<BR>
First, let me say that I have read and enjoyed many Heinlein novels, and<BR>
that I think he was undoubtedly one of the greatest and most influential SF<BR>
authors. Further, I have to agree, in part, with the posters who don't see<BR>
"Starship Troppers" (ST) as a fascist novel. Coincidentally, I've been<BR>
researchint Albert Speer and Reinhard Heydrich for a couple of books I'm<BR>
doing, and there's no way to compare the actual Fascism of the Third Reich<BR>
with the society of ST. That said, I find ST very disturbing in it's<BR>
presentation of a militaristic society as the best choice for governing<BR>
mankind.<BR>
<BR>
Part of the problem with ST is that the narrator, Johnny, has the<BR>
"aw-shucks-Beaver" naive voice that Heinlein gave all his teenage narrators<BR>
at the time. Thus, it is very difficult to tell if the 'me-first'<BR>
ultrapatriotism of the book is meant as a satire of 1950s American<BR>
chauvinism or is meant to be taken *literally.* It's hard to decide on<BR>
internal evidence from the book itself, which justifies all the military<BR>
actions, from the unprovoked preemptive strike, barely above the level of<BR>
terrorism, at the beginning of the book, to the perhaps justified genocide<BR>
directed at the Bugs later on. Again, it is hard to tell if this is meant as<BR>
criticism of the 'my country/race/planet right or wrong' attitude, or the<BR>
ultimate extension of Heinlein's "Don't tread on me" philosophy.<BR>
<BR>
The book explicitly states that the militaristic society that has evolved on<BR>
Earth is the best solution to the problem of governing people. And while I<BR>
can agree with the sentiment that people who don't give something to their<BR>
society/government shouldn't expect to get anything in return from it, I<BR>
find the conclusion that military rule is the best solution troubling at<BR>
best. Certainly it would surprise citizens of one of the book's models, the<BR>
Roman Republic. While Republican Rome shared many of the ideals of ST,<BR>
including military service as a path to the franchise, the Republic<BR>
ultimately collapsed not because of the connivance of Caesar, but because it<BR>
encouraged militarism among it's politicians, who were all expected to have<BR>
served in the army, as well as the creation of large bodies of armed men who<BR>
owed their primary allegiance not to the state, but their general-patrons.<BR>
Nor have there been many other 'happy' militaristic societies; Bismarck<BR>
Germany, perhaps the closest analog to the society of ST, managed to avoid<BR>
the ugly public antisemitism of its successors, burying ethnic and class<BR>
distinctions under a heavy cloak of ultranationalism; it also had a<BR>
repressive police presence, as well as a philosophy of public militarism<BR>
that ultimately provoked the Great War. In fact, I can think of no society<BR>
of the top of my head where government by military officers (the de facto<BR>
state of the ST universe; we never hear much about the civilian officials<BR>
nominally in charge) that was more efficient and just than other<BR>
governments; in fact, most times precisely the opposite has been the case.<BR>
<BR>
Finally, while Heinlein presents the idea of public, corporal punishment as<BR>
a ready corrective to many social ills, he either ignores or glosses over<BR>
the fact that such punishment has been banned in much of the Western world<BR>
because it was for the greater part of human history a tool of oppression. A<BR>
glance at the Slave Codes of the United States, or Germany's Nuremburg laws<BR>
provides ample evidence of this. Most importantly, and something Heinlein<BR>
never confronts, is the fact that those with the franchise can be immune to<BR>
such punishment. Sure, in the book it's clear that everyone is bound by the<BR>
same code of law; citizens can be flogged just as quickly as taxpayers. But<BR>
the citizens could *vote* themselves immunity, and the taxpayers would be<BR>
powerless to prevent it; given the normal course of human affairs, I would<BR>
expect this to eventually happen.<BR>
<BR>
The real problem with Heinlein and ethical/political questions is that it is<BR>
very difficult to counter his arguments within the context of his own books.<BR>
Many of his books provide immediate refutation to the positions taken as<BR>
holy writ in modern society, and the normal knee-jerk responses (democracy<BR>
is the true expression of the will of the people, for example, which is<BR>
gleefully demolished in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress," IMHO his best novel)<BR>
fail to answer Heinlein's propositions. But he accomplishes this mainly by<BR>
setting up straw men and then knocking them down. For example, in almost<BR>
every one of his books (ST, IIRC, is an exception) there's a character I<BR>
call "The Lazy Socialist." He's an intellectual, trained in something<BR>
pointless (like English literature), doesn't want to do any work, and is<BR>
looking for a government handout. Sure, this guy is a social parasite; but<BR>
to conflate him with, say, the policies of the Roosevelt New Deal, or the<BR>
Labor movement, is reductio ad absurdum at its most absurd. Likewise,<BR>
Heinlein's own "stand up for yourself" philosophy is never treated<BR>
critically in his books. Yeah, I agree in principle with Lazarus Long's "a<BR>
man should be able to deliver a baby, shoot a gun, write a sonnet...etc et<BR>
al" statement, but what if by no fault of your own you can't do these<BR>
things? What if you have cerebral palsy and can't fight? For that matter,<BR>
I'm pretty sure Michelangelo would have been knocked down by just about any<BR>
citizen of Rome, but does that meant that he should have practiced his<BR>
fencing instead of carving "David"? Heinlein's vision of an eternal frontier<BR>
society, armed to the teeth (rhapsodized in "Time Enough For Love"), is<BR>
something I find almost as terrifiying as Orwell's "1984."<BR>
<BR>
But of course, that's just my .02 Cr. Your mileage may, and probably will,<BR>
vary. As for an ObTrav: Somewhere in the OTU there's got to be some worlds<BR>
that have evolved along the lines of Heinlein's philosophy. The PCs may find<BR>
them quite, er, interesting to visit.<BR>
<BR>
Fred "Yeah, I'm an English major, I'm afraid" Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:15:07 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: DRESDEN<BR>
<BR>
Locations of word Dresden (off of books and HIWG CD, that are on my computer):<BR>
<BR>
MT Rebellion Sourcebook (pages 10 & 11? approximately)<BR>
Fanzine\ezine\pubmail<BR>
Hiwg doc 3106<BR>
Library data A-L<BR>
Library data M-Z<BR>
Lucan - Library Data<BR>
Varian - Library Data<BR>
missings - Library Data (a good place to look for personalities)<BR>
TNE - 0776 - Pocket Empires<BR>
TNE - 1301<BR>
TNE - 1326<BR>
TNE - 1626<BR>
td95295.txt<BR>
<BR>
It's one of the seven major islands on the planet Venice, from the pocket <BR>
empire created for TNE.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:24:19 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/12/00 1:31:16 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
daveshayne@email.msn.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Oh ostensibly the government is a democracy with a limited franchise.<BR>
>  But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged veterans of the<BR>
>  military it would tend to take on the charecter of a fascist state.<BR>
<BR>
Not all military veterans are closet fascists, of course.  And in the<BR>
story, there are a number of methods mentioned by which people other<BR>
than members of the *armed* services gain citizenship.  The criterion<BR>
is honorable *public* service, armed or not.<BR>
<BR>
>  Particularly<BR>
>  because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash opponents<BR>
>  of the current political system out of the military before enfranchisement.<BR>
<BR>
I can see that, almost.  There is one character who is eager to get<BR>
his franchise so that "there can be some changes," but he washes<BR>
out.  You could think of this fellow as either a would-be liberator, or<BR>
maybe as someone who supports the political system enough to want<BR>
to run for office in it.<BR>
<BR>
Meanwhile, if you think of the ethical philosophy that's taught in some<BR>
of the school sequences as a political ideology, then you certainly have<BR>
a description of an ideological state.  Still, it's interesting that the<BR>
teachers here use the Socratic method rather than simply drumming<BR>
the contents of a little red book into the students' minds.<BR>
<BR>
Most of the people who "wash out" during the training sequences do<BR>
so by demonstrating an inability to discipline themselves or to take<BR>
responsibility for the welfare of others.  Which was Heinlein's point.<BR>
His thesis was that *no* society can work unless enough of its members<BR>
are willing to take such disciplined responsibility.  The political system<BR>
in the book is an expression of this thesis.<BR>
<BR>
I rather suspect that Heinlein himself would not have wanted to live<BR>
under the political system he portrays -- not minarchist enough.  Even<BR>
so, those who consider it "fascist" either haven't read the book very<BR>
carefully or simply don't understand fascism.  Not surprising, since<BR>
a lot of people use "fascist" as a nearly content-free swearword.  As<BR>
for Verhoeven, I suspect his experience under *real* fascism led him<BR>
to use Starship Troopers for purposes the author would not have<BR>
countenanced.  The movie was one of the worst adaptations of a novel<BR>
I've ever seen.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:25:50 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cobra via</FONT></HTML>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 12 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3148<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Deodorant and Cats<BR>
Re: DRESDEN<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
picking nits<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: DRESDEN<BR>
RE: DRESDEN<BR>
Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Veedback, Near Miss and some Shows and Celebrities of the 3I (especially Solomani-heavy cultural regions)<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:15:52 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On 12 Oct 2000, at 0:13, eris@pcola.gulf.net wrote:<BR>
>> ot exactly.  Wasn't "Revolt in 2100" about a revolt against<BR>
>> asian conquorers of the US, or was that a different one?<BR>
><BR>
> No that was called "The Sixth Column" or something like that, IIRC<BR>
> (it was also published under another title that I can't remember at<BR>
> all).<BR>
<BR>
"The Day After Tomorrow"<BR>
<BR>
> "Revolt in 2100" was about the over-throw of a religious dictatorship<BR>
> that had control of the US. It also contained a couple of other<BR>
> stories, one of which contained the first appearance of Libby.<BR>
<BR>
>> I'd say Heinlein believed in self-reliance, *self* government, and<BR>
>> civility.  Libertarian, perhaps, but not in any formal sense.  I'd<BR>
>> call him Jeffersonian, as in "the least government is the best<BR>
>> government", but not *no* government.<BR>
><BR>
> For this also see "The Day After Tomorrow."<BR>
<BR>
I think you are thinking of some other story here...<BR>
<BR>
> No, no, there are many, many more - Damon Knight, Eric Frank Russel (now <BR>
> there's someone who was seriously anti-authority), Cliff Simak (City <BR>
> especially, though I liked Way Station a lot too) and A. E. Van Vogt (a <BR>
> wonderful source of game plots - they blow younger player's minds quite <BR>
> spectacularly) just for starters. I could go on and on, but I can't remember <BR>
> all the names, and my father's collection is 100 miles away, so I can't <BR>
> check <BR>
> it out. Oh yes - don't forget a british guy by the name of Arthur C. <BR>
> Clarke's <BR>
> stuff, either. His short stories, in particular, are excellent.<BR>
<BR>
John W. Campbell was pretty prominent before he became editor of<BR>
Astounding (and to some extent, later, writing under pen names). <BR>
<BR>
He did both space opera (not as good as Doc Smith, but adequate) and<BR>
thoughtful stuff. <BR>
<BR>
Of the later, I recommend "Twilight", "Night" and "Forgetfulness". <BR>
<BR>
That last ought to give any decent GM *several* nasty ideas.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:28:17 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I have always thought that Heilein's strength in that<BR>
> book (and in others, "Starman Jones" is a good<BR>
> example) is to show us a society totally unlike our<BR>
> own from the point of view of a member of that society<BR>
> who considers in completely natural.  I do not think<BR>
> we have any grounds to take that as Heilein's<BR>
> ENDORSEMENT of that society.<BR>
<BR>
"Revolt in 2100" is a good example of that. We see the hero starting<BR>
out as a firm believer in the religious dictatorship, in fact, he's a<BR>
member of the Prophet's elite guard! <BR>
<BR>
And then he slowly learns better. :-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:08:53 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley wrote,<BR>
>One very authoritarian concept it exhibits is that the citizen exists to<BR>
serve the state, not that the state exists to serve the citizen.  This kind<BR>
of idea stems from societies run by elites, where the common citizen is<BR>
ruled and not a ruler, whatever the formal constitutional structures.<<BR>
<BR>
This would be authoritarian except for one thing - no one is required to<BR>
become a citizen!<BR>
A member of the state has absolutely no requirements other than to not<BR>
violate the laws. One who wishes to serve the state must actually commit to<BR>
doing so. I see no hint of authoritarianism in that. But then, I see nothing<BR>
wrong with the idea that those who lead are really those who serve. When<BR>
responsibility is your byword, a leader can not be anything more than a<BR>
super-servant.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:14:26 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
 <BR>
> <BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> <BR>
> > Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >>   The biggest danger from using it is that my cat will<BR>
> >> want to lick your wet hair.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Or my pet peeve Cats or star ships.... Imagine being locked<BR>
> > up with walking allergens.<BR>
> <BR>
> The filters should be better than *that*. <BR>
> <BR>
> Besides, some *passengers* may be "walking allergens" to the <BR>
> crew or to<BR>
> other passengers. Given the large number of worlds and (relatively)<BR>
> small number of travellers, it's virtually *certain* that will happen<BR>
> often enough to be annoying.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
He he he<BR>
<BR>
Passenger: 'Why didn't you mention there were Vanthians aboard?!'<BR>
<BR>
Steward: 'I didn't think it was relevant. The captain doesn't tolerate<BR>
rascism aboard this ship.'<BR>
<BR>
Passenger: 'But I'm alergic to feathers!'<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:15:17 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
>Ostensibly the<BR>
charecter got the boot for striking the drill sgt but it was only upon<BR>
insisting on rights and priveledges that he was removed sans voting rights.<BR>
The system is geared toward keeping disenters away from the franchise.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<<BR>
<BR>
He struck his superior officer. In what way can his politics be seen as any<BR>
justification for this? The fact that had he simply shut his mouth he would<BR>
not have been expelled absolutely puts the lie to there being any sort of<BR>
conspiracy to expel him. Both the drill sergeant and the base commander were<BR>
jumping through hoops to avoid dismissing or executing the fool.<BR>
You are also ignoring that Rico was very nearly kicked out for getting<BR>
another trainee killed. He was able to control himself and was saved. (As<BR>
they refer to it in the book.)<BR>
No, it had nothing to do with politics and everything to do with a  spoiled<BR>
brat who thought his own desires and impulses were more important than<BR>
anything else.<BR>
You have a preconceived notion and are attempting to redefine the various<BR>
scene to justify it.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:27:09 -0700<BR>
From: Rodney Basler <rgb@odetics.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deodorant and Cats<BR>
<BR>
>From: Evyn MacDude <wmacdude@worldnet.att.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: Deodorant (was Re: off-topic games<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
>Or my pet peeve Cats or star ships.... Imagine being locked<BR>
>up with walking allergens.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
	If you can smoke on submarines at today's level of technology, I<BR>
doubt that allergens from cats, dogs, beakers, or those winged Aslani<BR>
cat/bat/hawk things would be a problem for any but the most extremely<BR>
allergic at Trav. tech levels - and for those, there will probably be<BR>
treatments commonly available.<BR>
<BR>
	Rod Basler, COFIT (who has been accused of being St. Francis of<BR>
Assisi on several occasions)<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:30:04 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Re: DRESDEN<BR>
<BR>
Kagehira@aol.com puts into the Ether:<BR>
>Locations of word Dresden (off of books and HIWG CD, that are on my computer):<BR>
>MT Rebellion Sourcebook (pages 10 & 11? approximately)<BR>
>Fanzine\ezine\pubmail<BR>
>Hiwg doc 3106<BR>
>Library data A-L<BR>
>Library data M-Z<BR>
>Lucan - Library Data<BR>
>Varian - Library Data<BR>
>missings - Library Data (a good place to look for personalities)<BR>
>TNE - 0776 - Pocket Empires<BR>
>TNE - 1301<BR>
>TNE - 1326<BR>
>TNE - 1626<BR>
>td95295.txt<BR>
>It's one of the seven major islands on the planet Venice, from the pocket<BR>
>empire created for TNE.<BR>
<BR>
I did the Pocket Empire List write up for Venice (in Reavers' Deep), so <BR>
assigning the name Dresden to one of the islands is only Cannon in MTU.<BR>
<BR>
The Pocket Empire List work was never published by GDW.  Some of it saw <BR>
print in the Traveller Chronicle magazine.<BR>
So it's work could be considered mortar rather than cannon...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
"We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued<BR>
other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and<BR>
rifle their pockets for new vocabulary." - James D. Nicoll<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:39:12 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>> I'd say Heinlein believed in self-reliance, *self* government, and<BR>
>>> civility.  Libertarian, perhaps, but not in any formal sense.  I'd<BR>
>>> call him Jeffersonian, as in "the least government is the best<BR>
>>> government", but not *no* government.<BR>
>><BR>
>> For this also see "The Day After Tomorrow."<BR>
><BR>
>I think you are thinking of some other story here...<BR>
<BR>
Possibly "Coventry," collected in 'Revolt in 2100' about a naive individualist who chooses to leave organized society for an "anarchist preserve" (my wording, not RAH's) and quickly learns that society without government is not all it's cracked up to be.  Pretty obvious stuff; not one of his better stories.<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:45:10 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
"Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> write:<BR>
<BR>
> > From: "DaveShayne" <BR>
> > >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> > >Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's writing?<BR>
> > Starship Troopers.<BR>
> > <BR>
> > Oh ostensibly the government is a democracy with a limited<BR>
> > franchise. But since that franchise is limited to honorably<BR>
> > discharged veterans of the military it would tend to take on the<BR>
> > charecter of a fascist state. Particularly because there appears to<BR>
> > be a marked tendancy to wash opponents of the current political<BR>
> > system out of the military before enfranchisement.<BR>
> <BR>
> One very authoritarian concept it exhibits is that the citizen exists<BR>
> to serve the state, not that the state exists to serve the citizen. <BR>
> This kind of idea stems from societies run by elites, where the common<BR>
> citizen is ruled and not a ruler, whatever the formal constitutional<BR>
> structures.<BR>
<BR>
Verymuch agreed.  Once you have a government based upon the <BR>
idea that the citizens exist to serve it rather than it exists to serve <BR>
the citizens then freedom and rights are essentially out the <BR>
window. I see the above distinction as the key difference between <BR>
free and authoritarian societies. <BR>
 <BR>
> Libertarianism, incidentally, has pretty much the same premise:  The<BR>
> state is inherently something distinct from and counterposed to its<BR>
> citizens. That is, there is no such thing as a true democracy.<BR>
<BR>
Interesting idea...<BR>
<BR>
> On RH's politics:  I vaguely recall an essay by Asimov, in which he<BR>
> describes something of a split amongst the early SF writers, back<BR>
> before WW2 when there were so few of them that they all were young and<BR>
> knew each other. There was a liberal group, including Asimov and<BR>
> Clarke, who viewed fascism as a greater threat than "communism", and a<BR>
> conservative group, including Heinlein, that viewed "communism" as a<BR>
> greater threat than fascism.  This essay would have been in one of the<BR>
> collections of such things that are out there....<BR>
<BR>
Yep, opinions of the Vietnam war were also interestingly split. <BR>
Michael Moorcock has an interesting essay on this topic, talking <BR>
about politics and SF, and how much older SF is based upon <BR>
highly authoritarian assumptions.  THe essay is on the web <BR>
somewhere, but I've lost the URL<BR>
<BR>
> One of these days I am going to work out how to come up with<BR>
> interesting scenarios in a society a bit like that in Iain Banks'<BR>
> Culture books... Banks does it, but novel plotlines and RPG scenarios<BR>
> aren't the same thing.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, it's very easy to do scenarios involving the Culture, just <BR>
make the PCs members of (or opponents of) a Special <BR>
Circumstances team.  However, like Banks mostly does, the key <BR>
is to have successful scenarios involving the Culture, which are <BR>
mostly set outside the Culture. Some intrigue scenarios like the <BR>
first part of _Player of Games_ are possible, but stories set outside <BR>
the Culture are definitely easier to run.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:44:04 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: picking nits<BR>
<BR>
>Ostensibly the<BR>
>charecter got the boot for striking the drill sgt but it was only upon<BR>
>insisting on rights and priveledges that he was removed sans voting rights.<BR>
>The system is geared toward keeping disenters away from the franchise.<BR>
<BR>
It was only after he came out and said that he struck the Instructor.   A <BR>
point that the instructor had carefully avoided.<BR>
Why, because he knew that it would wash the kid out, and he didn't want <BR>
that to happen.<BR>
The Instructor and the officers were bending over backwards to avoid that <BR>
obvious point (the instructor's eye was swelling).<BR>
The kid wasn't "booted out" for 'insisting on rights & privileges.'  In <BR>
most modern nations, military personnel have less 'rights & privileges' <BR>
than civilians.  The recruit trainee was discharged for striking a superior <BR>
and admitting to it before multiple superior officers who at that point <BR>
could not ignore the offense.<BR>
<BR>
The Instructor then was read the riot act for not controlling the situation <BR>
and ruining not only the kid's military career, but his chances for <BR>
citizenship.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>
Did you read what I read?  Write it right here in red.<BR>
http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:52:25 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:18:36 +1300<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
<BR>
>Besides it's got to be about the loosest fascism to ever grace the printed word <BR>
>- - all you have to do if you don't like it is to get a mob of like minded <BR>
>friends, join up and in two years run for office.<BR>
<BR>
You missed out "join up, __undergo rigorous training (brainwashing)<BR>
designed to crush any individuality and turn you into a person who<BR>
follows orders, conforms to the thought patterns of the military, and<BR>
supports the current organisation of the State__ and in two years run<BR>
for office."<BR>
<BR>
I'd hesitate to call Starship Troopers "fascism" simply because that<BR>
word has a different meaning to everybody that uses it;  but there are<BR>
definite points of similarity.  A militarised society;  strong<BR>
distinctions drawn between the "worthy" people at the centre of power<BR>
and the "unworthy" people who are deprived of rights; selfless service<BR>
to the State taught as the highest good; an emphasis on death and risk<BR>
rather than service to your fellows as being that which ennobles us.<BR>
(IIRC, the only way to get the franchise was through service in a job<BR>
where you actively risked your life - so a medical _subject_ would<BR>
qualify but a medical _researcher_ wouldn't).<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
(who also thinks that an author of fiction can write _about_ a<BR>
political system without necessarily _supporting_ that system...)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:53:10 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: DRESDEN<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/12/00 10:25:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
>  And it's a city on Terra, Solomani Rim :)<BR>
<BR>
I had that too, but since someone else mentioned it already.......<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:59:22 +0100<BR>
From: "Jones, Dean" <Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com><BR>
Subject: RE: DRESDEN<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Kagehira@aol.com [mailto:Kagehira@aol.com]<BR>
> Sent: 12 October 2000 18:53<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: DRESDEN<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> In a message dated 10/12/00 10:25:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
> owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > <BR>
> >  And it's a city on Terra, Solomani Rim :)<BR>
> <BR>
> I had that too, but since someone else mentioned it already.......<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Darn, must have missed that. I thought it odd noone had mentioned so obvious<BR>
a target.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:03:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:17:56 -0400<BR>
> From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's writing?<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Starship Troopers.<BR>
> <BR>
> Oh ostensibly the government is a democracy with a limited franchise. <BR>
> But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged veterans of<BR>
> the military it would tend to take on the charecter of a fascist state. <BR>
<BR>
This argument rests on a misreading of the book, coupled with a specious<BR>
assertion.  The misreading is that only military veterans are<BR>
enfranchised; the book makes quite clear that only those volunteering for<BR>
a term of 'Federal Service' are enfranchised, and that the vast majority<BR>
of FS is nonmilitary.  The specious assertion is that military veterans<BR>
are more fascist than the general population.  I'm not clear why this idea<BR>
persists.  People who volunteer to risk their lives to protect freedom<BR>
have a better empirical claim to loving freedom than the general<BR>
population. <BR>
<BR>
> Particularly because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash<BR>
> opponents of the current political system out of the military before<BR>
> enfranchisement. <BR>
<BR>
Textual reference, please.<BR>
<BR>
> Starship Troopers was the first Heinlein book I read (at the insistence<BR>
> of a friend of mine who insited that the government in the book was the<BR>
> perfect type of government.) I *almost* didn't read another Heinlein<BR>
> book because of the (IMHO) specious politics presented. Luckilly I took<BR>
> a chance on *The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress* and I've now read all of<BR>
> RAH's books I've been able to find (with the exception of *Sixth<BR>
> Collumn* which I own but haven't gotten into yet.) <BR>
<BR>
Heinlein was too smart a man to present anything as 'the perfect type of<BR>
government.'  Each possible system of government has strengths and<BR>
weaknesses.  For example, a smart and benevolent dictator is absolutely<BR>
the best possible government in terms of efficiency, since she can<BR>
intervene at any level to make needed changes without delay for debate or<BR>
consensus-building.  The corresponding weakness is that her successor may<BR>
be neither smart nore benevolent.  Heinlein saw both the strengths and<BR>
weaknesses in our capitalist-republican model of government, and used his<BR>
fiction to explore various alternative models.<BR>
<BR>
I'm still waiting for someone to provide a reasonable, text-based case<BR>
that ST is fascist.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:17:23 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> You missed out "join up, __undergo rigorous training (brainwashing)<BR>
> designed to crush any individuality and turn you into a person who<BR>
> follows orders, conforms to the thought patterns of the military, and<BR>
> supports the current organisation of the State__ and in two years run<BR>
> for office."<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Do you mean to imply that anyone who goes through basic training and servers<BR>
2 years military duty is incapable of making a decision that doesn't conform<BR>
to their 'brinwashing'?  Certainly not my experience, but then, I've been<BR>
'brainwashed' by the friendly folks at Ft. Benning .<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:24:02 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I'm still waiting for someone to provide a reasonable, text-based case<BR>
> that ST is fascist.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Craig,<BR>
<BR>
Don't you know that any political system that is different than our is<BR>
either fascist or communist? (although according to many, the US has a<BR>
fascist government currently).  The problem is, as I think was mentioned,<BR>
fascist is now used as a generic term for any government someone doesn't<BR>
like, but that usually involves a government of laws (i.e. restricting what<BR>
I can do).  Calling ST fascist really demonstrates that the posters don't<BR>
really understand what fascism is (except that they have cool uniforms).<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:22:40 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
All this discussion has convinced me to go back and re-read the book, which must give pleasure to RAH from beyond the grave, as it is surely what he intended (well, almost, 'cause I'll be reading my own copy instead of buying a new one).  Controversy ---> Curiosity ---> Increased sales ---> More money for Virginia Heinlein (which, BTW, does anyone know whether or not she's still alive?)<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:58:32<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
At 07:16 AM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The only twinge of fascism might be taken if we seen<BR>
>"History and Moral Philosophy" as a brainwashing<BR>
>system;  it is not portrayed that way.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, H&MP seems designed to force the student to think and ask<BR>
questions, both of himself and his society.  Hardly a fascist trait.<BR>
<BR>
I've had the "Starship Troopers" is fascist" argument many times, mostly<BR>
with people who completely ignore that the only part of that society we see<BR>
is the last semester of high school and the military.  Hardly a fair basis<BR>
for judgement.  After all, if you were to take a US Marine and judge<BR>
American society based on him, you'd come up with a fascist model as well.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Embrace Fascism.    The uniforms look cool<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:03:36<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
At 12:00 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>(2) direct and extreme suppression of<BR>
>>opponents of the regime<BR>
><BR>
>Ya got me here although I see evidence of this<BR>
>in Starship Troopers (even if others don't)<BR>
<BR>
OK, I just reread the book last week, and there is almost no mention of who<BR>
the government is even run, let alone how it handles opponents.  I did see<BR>
freedom of the press, free movement, and open communications at all levels.<BR>
<BR>
You just had to serve, in some capacity to earn the vote, and access to<BR>
certain jobs, like police officer or teacher in H&MP.  The Rico family was<BR>
evidently very successful without bothering to get the franchise, if Juan<BR>
got a helicopter for his sixteenth birthday and was offered a vacation to<BR>
Mars as a graduation gift.<BR>
<BR>
It's not even like the military is the only option.  Remember that Carlos<BR>
ended up as a researcher on Pluto, and the doc told Johnny that everybody<BR>
who came in was allowed to serve somewhere doing something.  Just as long<BR>
as they did their two years, they got the franchise.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:37:47<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 10:45 AM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, it's very easy to do scenarios involving the Culture, just <BR>
>make the PCs members of (or opponents of) a Special <BR>
>Circumstances team.  However, like Banks mostly does, the key <BR>
>is to have successful scenarios involving the Culture, which are <BR>
>mostly set outside the Culture. Some intrigue scenarios like the <BR>
>first part of _Player of Games_ are possible, but stories set outside <BR>
>the Culture are definitely easier to run.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed, Craig pushed _Consider Phlebus_ on me by saying it was just like a<BR>
Traveller party.  And it is.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:45:16<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 05:52 PM 10/12/2000 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>You missed out "join up, __undergo rigorous training (brainwashing)<BR>
>designed to crush any individuality and turn you into a person who<BR>
>follows orders, conforms to the thought patterns of the military, and<BR>
>supports the current organisation of the State__ and in two years run<BR>
>for office."<BR>
<BR>
Remember the only training we saw was Rico's, which was for the Mobile<BR>
Infantry.  If I was to compare my OSUT experience at Ft. Benning with that<BR>
of an Air Force electronics repairman, you'd find vast differences.<BR>
<BR>
Also, there is a vast difference between learning to follow orders and<BR>
lacking individuality.  The 1984 presidential election occured during my<BR>
basic training.  Despite having been in an intense military environment for<BR>
10 weeks at that point, my ballot went for Mondale, and I still thought<BR>
Reagan was brain dead.  But I understood that he was my Commander-in-Chief.<BR>
<BR>
During my time in the military, I became a deadhead, read alternative<BR>
comics, and stayed myself.  But when we went to the field, I became the<BR>
soldier I had trained to be.<BR>
<BR>
I would point out the both John F. Kennedy and George Bush were combat<BR>
veterans of the US Navy's Pacific campaign of WWII.  You couldn't find two<BR>
more divergent political opinions.<BR>
<BR>
I do find it interesting this feeling that basic training somehow instils a<BR>
mental clamp on freedom of thought.  It doesn't, and I'm living proof.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
Embrace Fascism.    The uniforms look cool<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:56:48 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Veedback, Near Miss and some Shows and Celebrities of the 3I (especially Solomani-heavy cultural regions)<BR>
<BR>
>Actually, I just kind of thought about the fw Vil female names (Gam, etc..)<BR>
>that we have and somehow based it on that.  Where's your web site?  <drewl><BR>
<BR>
That's really rather bizarre. It's a small world and stuff.<BR>
<BR>
It's at:<BR>
<BR>
http://www.pil.net/~semo<BR>
<BR>
Enjoy! :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:06:01 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> > You missed out "join up, __undergo rigorous training (brainwashing)<BR>
> > designed to crush any individuality and turn you into a person who<BR>
> > follows orders, conforms to the thought patterns of the military, and<BR>
> > supports the current organisation of the State__ and in two years run<BR>
> > for office."<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> Do you mean to imply that anyone who goes through basic training and<BR>
> servers 2 years military duty is incapable of making a decision that<BR>
> doesn't conform to their 'brinwashing'?  Certainly not my experience,<BR>
> but then, I've been 'brainwashed' by the friendly folks at Ft. Benning<BR>
> <BR>
I have kind of a mixed thought process on this.  I've had friends go into<BR>
the military and come out so messed up that I couldn't be friends with<BR>
them any more.  They scared me.  On the other hand, I know a fair number<BR>
of people who are currently serving or who have served in the US Military<BR>
or the Japanese Self Defense Force who are really sharp and about as<BR>
un-brainwashed as it is possible to be.<BR>
<BR>
I know that military training is supposed to break down and remake your<BR>
self image, having been told this by military people, and that this is<BR>
necessary for most people to be able to get through combat and function as<BR>
a team.  This sort of does quality as a form of brainwashing even though<BR>
the results are not the same as what we think of as brainwashing.  It also<BR>
does seem to bring out the worst in certain personality types and what<BR>
scares me about that is that people like Pat are not necessarily the ones<BR>
who get psych discharges either.<BR>
<BR>
Just my 3.5 yen...<BR>
Kiri<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3148<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 12 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3149<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: picking nits<BR>
Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3147<BR>
Re: Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3148<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Democracies, oligarchies, fascism<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3147<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
Heinlein (was: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers)<BR>
Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:51:14<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
At 11:03 AM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I'm still waiting for someone to provide a reasonable, text-based case<BR>
>that ST is fascist.<BR>
<BR>
Craig, you are coming to the 2002 Worldcon, yes?  The "Heinlein is a<BR>
Fascist" panel has become an institution, passed from Worldcon to Worldcon<BR>
in a touching ceremony reminiscent of the passing of the Olympic flag.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas "Penguin Boy" Berry  gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"But that's not the point!" raged Ford. "The point is that I am now a<BR>
perfectly safe penguin, and my colleague here is rapidly running out of<BR>
limbs!"  - The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:54:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: picking nits<BR>
<BR>
At 01:44 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>The kid wasn't "booted out" for 'insisting on rights & privileges.'  In <BR>
>most modern nations, military personnel have less 'rights & privileges' <BR>
>than civilians.  The recruit trainee was discharged for striking a superior <BR>
>and admitting to it before multiple superior officers who at that point <BR>
>could not ignore the offense.<BR>
<BR>
In the US Army, this is an Article 15.  Many trangressions are handled by<BR>
your commander, with loss of rank, pay, and extra duty.  You can always<BR>
demand a court-martial, but if you are smart, you'll shut up and take your<BR>
knocks.<BR>
<BR>
The recruit forgot the first rule:  If you're warm and happy in a pile of<BR>
shit, keep your mouth shut.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:35:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> Craig, you are coming to the 2002 Worldcon, yes?  The "Heinlein is a<BR>
> Fascist" panel has become an institution, passed from Worldcon to Worldcon<BR>
> in a touching ceremony reminiscent of the passing of the Olympic flag.<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I've been to a few of these panels myself.  Often the panel members are<BR>
frustrated or not too successful writers.  Jealous of RAH's success?  Or mad<BR>
because sometimes RAH make one think. Not all of us believe in a soft and<BR>
squishy, politically correct, Star Trek kind of future.  Certainly, the<BR>
universe of Traveller is not of this type.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:34:17 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3147<BR>
<BR>
DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> [Samuel D. Weiss wrote:]<BR>
> <BR>
> >David Shayne wrote,<BR>
> >>Particularly<BR>
> >because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash opponents<BR>
> >of the current political system out of the military before<BR>
> enfranchisement.<<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Not in the copy I read.<BR>
> <BR>
> Try reading again. The only charecter in the book opposed to the political<BR>
> order - the one charecter who joined specifically to get his franchise so<BR>
> he could vote to change the system - was also the only charecter to<BR>
> be kicked out (except for the rapist who got hanged.) Ostensibly the<BR>
> charecter got the boot for striking the drill sgt but it was only upon<BR>
> insisting on rights and priveledges that he was removed sans voting rights.<BR>
<BR>
Insisting on rights and privileges which were, simply, not his due while he<BR>
was in the service. If he'd kept his mouth shut and learned his place[1] he <BR>
could have stuck it out, gotten his franchise, and then worked to change <BR>
the system. He was a fool.<BR>
<BR>
At this point, I'd like to point out that I'm one of a probable-minority on <BR>
the TML who has never done military service; when I was young enough to <BR>
enlist I was too full of myself to submit to authority and responsibility.<BR>
<BR>
Even I know that when you enlist in the armed service, you're going to get <BR>
smacked around -- verbally and physically -- from time to time by your <BR>
superiors. Unless they are doing you permanent damage or endangering your<BR>
life (in peacetime), you sit there and take it and direct your anger into <BR>
your work - finishing basic training. (Someone who's served can correct me <BR>
if I'm mistaken here.)<BR>
<BR>
My housemate James was in the Navy briefly. He told me a story about a <BR>
nuclear reactor shutdown drill. He made an incorrect assumption about what <BR>
his supervisor was doing during the drill, and skipped a step in the shutdown <BR>
sequence because he assumed the supervisor was doing it for him. The guy <BR>
stopped him, yelled at him, and kicked him in the shin, breaking skin, coming<BR>
very close to needing stiches.<BR>
<BR>
James reported him for it; you aren't supposed to abuse your subordinates <BR>
like that. In my opinion, though technically within his rights, James did <BR>
the wrong thing. James made the error in the first place; he was supposed <BR>
to get yelled at (though, probably, he didn't deserve the scar) - that's <BR>
how you learn these important things like not assuming that someone else <BR>
is doing the right thing when there's a _nuclear reactor_ involved.<BR>
<BR>
> The system is geared toward keeping disenters away from the franchise.<BR>
<BR>
You're reading a lot into one event in the book - effectively using <BR>
minimal anecdotal evidence to draw a conclusion. <BR>
<BR>
Let's leave aside the question of whether non-military government service <BR>
is enfranchised in ST (Heinlein said so after the fact, but the novel <BR>
certainly gives the _impression_ that non-military service isn't as <BR>
valuable as military -- my guess is that was an oversight on the part <BR>
of an author who didn't realize that thousands of people would be debating<BR>
this point over a worldwide computer network for decades to come).<BR>
<BR>
At worst, a dissenter only has to knuckle down and take it for two or <BR>
four years -- keep his mouth shut and write it all down in his diary. Then<BR>
he can start voting and change the system if he doesn't like it. <BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
[1] Deity, I'm starting to sound like Dave Sim.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:38:07 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
John Snead wrote:<BR>
> "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au> write:<BR>
> > One very authoritarian concept it exhibits is that the citizen exists<BR>
> > to serve the state, not that the state exists to serve the citizen. <BR>
> > This kind of idea stems from societies run by elites, where the common<BR>
> > citizen is ruled and not a ruler, whatever the formal constitutional<BR>
> > structures.<BR>
> <BR>
> Verymuch agreed.  Once you have a government based upon the <BR>
> idea that the citizens exist to serve it rather than it exists to serve <BR>
> the citizens then freedom and rights are essentially out the <BR>
> window. I see the above distinction as the key difference between <BR>
> free and authoritarian societies. <BR>
<BR>
How did y'all get from "the citizen must prove his willingness to serve <BR>
society" to "the citizen exists to serve the state?"<BR>
<BR>
In ST, you have to serve a couple of years to get the franchise, and <BR>
the other 60-plus years of your threescore and ten is yours to do whatever<BR>
the hell you want. Sounds like a reasonable deal to me.<BR>
<BR>
- -Russell B<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:46:28 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3148<BR>
<BR>
Kiri wrote:<BR>
> I know that military training is supposed to break down and remake your<BR>
> self image, having been told this by military people, and that this is<BR>
> necessary for most people to be able to get through combat and function as<BR>
> a team. <BR>
<BR>
A rational individualist simply isn't well equipped to go out and get shot <BR>
at and kill people in defense of "ideas". To be a useful soldier, your <BR>
individualism has to be either _suppressed_, or destroyed. <BR>
<BR>
Unfortunately, the army doesn't have any real reason to prefer one result <BR>
over the other on a systematic level. <BR>
<BR>
> This sort of does quality as a form of brainwashing even though<BR>
> the results are not the same as what we think of as brainwashing.  It also<BR>
> does seem to bring out the worst in certain personality types and what<BR>
> scares me about that is that people like Pat are not necessarily the ones<BR>
> who get psych discharges either.<BR>
<BR>
For some people, it seems like military service is exactly what they need<BR>
to "grow up" and learn that they can't always have things their way. For <BR>
others, as you say, it seems to bring out the worst. <BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:58:21 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
> > Do you mean to imply that anyone who goes through basic training and<BR>
> > servers 2 years military duty is incapable of making a decision that<BR>
> > doesn't conform to their 'brinwashing'?  Certainly not my experience,<BR>
> > but then, I've been 'brainwashed' by the friendly folks at Ft. Benning<BR>
> ><BR>
> I have kind of a mixed thought process on this.  I've had friends go into<BR>
> the military and come out so messed up that I couldn't be friends with<BR>
> them any more.  They scared me.  On the other hand, I know a fair number<BR>
> of people who are currently serving or who have served in the US Military<BR>
> or the Japanese Self Defense Force who are really sharp and about as<BR>
> un-brainwashed as it is possible to be.<BR>
<BR>
And there are plenty of people who undergo other hard trials where the same<BR>
thing happens.  This is not unique to the military, but more a function of<BR>
the individual and how they react to difficult situations.  My friends are<BR>
split about 50/50 military and non-military.  The main feature of friends<BR>
who have done the 'military thing' is that they have a shared experience<BR>
that the non-military ones can't seem to groc.  You'll find the same thing<BR>
on this list.  I'm guessing a good percentage (30-40%) of the folks on this<BR>
list are prior service.<BR>
<BR>
Strangely, It's been my experience that there are a disproportunate number<BR>
of Traveller players who are prior service (as compared with other RPGs).  I<BR>
have no hard statistics to back this up, just 20+ years of gaming. Weird,<BR>
huh?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I know that military training is supposed to break down and remake your<BR>
> self image, having been told this by military people, and that this is<BR>
> necessary for most people to be able to get through combat and function as<BR>
> a team.<BR>
<BR>
Exactly.  It's about building esprit and engendering a sense of duty and<BR>
self-sacrifice.  After all, we're asking our young to do things that can get<BR>
them killed. This goes against everything most late teens hold dear,<BR>
especially in  the post-'me generation'.  Withought going into specifics<BR>
about what being 'messed up' means to you, or what 'scare you', I can't<BR>
comment. I do know of one friend of mine, whose parents were fairly liberal<BR>
and 'sophiostocated', who (horrors!) went off to marine basic, and came back<BR>
in a state that alarmed his parents. He had discovered a strong<BR>
self-confidence, a love of the military and a fondness for weapons.  My<BR>
goodness, he even became a republican! I consider him a stalwart pillar of<BR>
society, exactly the kind of person that keeps this country strong and safe.<BR>
I am probably biased (must be that US Army sponsored brainwashing), but oft<BR>
times it comes down to nothing more than perception.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:04:20 -0400<BR>
From: Kurt Feltenberger <kurt@blazenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 12:06 PM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>I have kind of a mixed thought process on this.  I've had friends go into<BR>
>the military and come out so messed up that I couldn't be friends with<BR>
>them any more.  They scared me.  On the other hand, I know a fair number<BR>
>of people who are currently serving or who have served in the US Military<BR>
>or the Japanese Self Defense Force who are really sharp and about as<BR>
>un-brainwashed as it is possible to be.<BR>
<BR>
Are they functionally 'messed up' or are their attitudes, outlooks, and <BR>
beliefs so different from yours that the memories of past friendship are <BR>
unable to successfully bridge the gulf?  I ask this because a number of my <BR>
friends joined the service out of high school in '85 and I noticed that <BR>
they exhibited these changes when they were home on leave.  Our priorities <BR>
and beliefs grew apart and when they were finally discharged we were still <BR>
friends, but rather than the close 'best friend' friendships they were more <BR>
of the type where you might see them every eight or ten months and say 'Hi' <BR>
in passing.<BR>
<BR>
Bringing this around to Traveller, do discharged (or on leave) personnel in <BR>
the 3I have trouble fitting in when they return home?  Looking at the <BR>
Spinward Marches as an example, the attitudes and perceptions of someone <BR>
from Mora stationed on Emerald, and then returning home to Mora would be <BR>
different.  On Emerald he would have open spaces, lots of solid ground, <BR>
while back on Mora this would be missing.  Does the military of the 3I have <BR>
units whose sole function is to help re-integrate discharged personnel into <BR>
the ebb and flow of perceptions and attitudes of their home world when they <BR>
returned home?<BR>
<BR>
Kurt Feltenberger<BR>
<BR>
"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>
    may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>
      ~Stephen Decatur<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:30:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Kurt Feltenberger wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 12:06 PM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >I have kind of a mixed thought process on this.  I've had friends go into<BR>
> >the military and come out so messed up that I couldn't be friends with<BR>
> >them any more.  They scared me.  On the other hand, I know a fair number<BR>
> >of people who are currently serving or who have served in the US Military<BR>
> >or the Japanese Self Defense Force who are really sharp and about as<BR>
> >un-brainwashed as it is possible to be.<BR>
> <BR>
> Are they functionally 'messed up' or are their attitudes, outlooks, and <BR>
> beliefs so different from yours that the memories of past friendship are <BR>
> unable to successfully bridge the gulf?<BR>
<BR>
In one case, he's completely unable to deal with anyone who can't give him<BR>
orders and won't be ordered about by him.  When I went places with him I<BR>
was always having to tell him what to do so he didn't make a fool of<BR>
himself, and this was tough because I had to do it in such a way that<BR>
would make him think he was in charge.<BR>
<BR>
In another, he has no respect for women any more (I don't understand<BR>
exactly what this has to do with the service, but he wasn't that way<BR>
before), is really belligerent, argues with everyone constantly, and<BR>
basically tries to lord it over anyone and everyone smaller than him.<BR>
<BR>
I know a third one like this, but HE got a section 8.<BR>
<BR>
One was Japanese and the other two were American (actually they still<BR>
are).  It wasn't a matter of just being different, they seem to have lost<BR>
their ability to function in civilian society.  They never saw combat so I<BR>
really am not sure what happened.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri ^_^<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:31:07 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Democracies, oligarchies, fascism<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 08:27:21 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> <BR>
> One of the better known true democracies was France during the French<BR>
> Revolution and the Terror. It started out with the problem most<BR>
> democracies take a while to develop. If more people dislike you than<BR>
> like you, then they can vote to do *anything* to you. <BR>
<BR>
For those interested in a brilliant riveting novel which happens to<BR>
provide a look at a "true democracy"[1] in action, I recommend _Tides of<BR>
War_ by Steven Pressfield, which covers the Peloponesian Wars of the late<BR>
5th century BC from an Athenian viewpoint.  The excesses of mob rule are<BR>
made terrifyingly clear.<BR>
<BR>
[1] And yes, 5th-century Athens wasn't a fully participatory democracy; a<BR>
    minority of adults were enfranchised.  But it still provides one of<BR>
    our best historical models of how a democracy operates.<BR>
<BR>
By the way, Pressfield is more famous for his earlier _Gates of Fire_,<BR>
which is about the battle of Thermopylae and the events leading up to it,<BR>
but is also more deeply an examination of how Spartan society worked.<BR>
Anyone interested in seeing the incredibly diverse ways humans can<BR>
organize themselves into societies should read both books.  Ditto anyone<BR>
who is interested in Greek history, or who enjoys damn good stories, for<BR>
that matter. :)  My favorite detail from GoF is a joke told by a common<BR>
Spartan soldier, while in the field under miserable conditions:  "What's<BR>
the difference between us and the King?  We're living in this shithole<BR>
over here, but he's living in that shithole over there."  Kind of sums up<BR>
one of the reasons the Spartan army was successful.<BR>
<BR>
> Alas, because of all the talk about "democracy", far too many places<BR>
> (including the US) are heading towards exactly that. And then people<BR>
> will blame it on everything *but* themselves.<BR>
<BR>
...And have the power to pass laws in response to such blame.  We're on a<BR>
very scary slippery slope just now.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:34:36 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> especially in  the post-'me generation'.  Withought going into specifics<BR>
> about what being 'messed up' means to you, or what 'scare you', I can't<BR>
> comment. I do know of one friend of mine, whose parents were fairly liberal<BR>
> and 'sophiostocated', who (horrors!) went off to marine basic, and came back<BR>
> in a state that alarmed his parents. He had discovered a strong<BR>
> self-confidence, a love of the military and a fondness for weapons.  My<BR>
> goodness, he even became a republican! I consider him a stalwart pillar of<BR>
> society, exactly the kind of person that keeps this country strong and safe.<BR>
> I am probably biased (must be that US Army sponsored brainwashing), but oft<BR>
> times it comes down to nothing more than perception.<BR>
> <BR>
LOL, I like weapons and am rather libertarian.<BR>
<BR>
No, it's nothing like that.  I get concerned when people lose the ability<BR>
to relate to civilians is all, especially people like their wives,<BR>
girlfriends, family.  Some people seem to get the mindset to the point<BR>
where everyone around them is either under their command or in charge of<BR>
them and the women in their lives are always the subordinates.<BR>
<BR>
One of them even told me he couldn't imagine living outside of the<BR>
military any more.  Not that he loved it and wanted to make it his life<BR>
and career, that I would have understood, but that the idea of being out<BR>
of it terrified him.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri ^_^<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:49:03 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Strangely, It's been my experience that there are a disproportunate number<BR>
> of Traveller players who are prior service (as compared with other RPGs). <BR>
> I have no hard statistics to back this up, just 20+ years of gaming.<BR>
> Weird, huh?<BR>
<BR>
I suspect it's because GDW was historically as much of a wargaming company<BR>
as a roleplaying company.  I doubt that the ratio among Traveller players <BR>
is higher than among, say, historical wargamers.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:14:22<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 02:22 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>for Virginia Heinlein (which, BTW, does anyone know whether or not she's<BR>
>still alive?)<BR>
<BR>
Alive and kicking.  Saw her at BayCon, having lunch with Poul Anderson.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:05:48<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 12:06 PM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I know that military training is supposed to break down and remake your<BR>
>self image, having been told this by military people, and that this is<BR>
>necessary for most people to be able to get through combat and function as<BR>
>a team.<BR>
<BR>
It is also to show you that you can do more, and go farther than you ever<BR>
thought you could.  You have to get rid of the civilian mindset and<BR>
understand that hard work and pain are now your bunkmates.  The farm kids<BR>
adapted much quicker than us urban and suburban recruits.<BR>
<BR>
It is important to realize just how young a military is.  I'm shocked to<BR>
realize that at one point, a unit I was in (D Co, 3/7 Infantry) was, with<BR>
the exception of the First Sergeant and two platoon Sergeants, under thirty.<BR>
<BR>
From the commander down to our newest Private, we were all in our late<BR>
teens and twenties.  And we were a unit that was expected to go out on the<BR>
battlefield and not just fight, but defeat the Soviets in West Germany.<BR>
<BR>
>  This sort of does quality as a form of brainwashing even though<BR>
>the results are not the same as what we think of as brainwashing.  It also<BR>
>does seem to bring out the worst in certain personality types and what<BR>
>scares me about that is that people like Pat are not necessarily the ones<BR>
>who get psych discharges either.<BR>
<BR>
In some jobs, being psycho is a requirement.  I'm not joking.  Before going<BR>
to sniper school, I was given a battery of psychological test to determine<BR>
if I could shoot people the way snipers do; from cover and with complete<BR>
surprise.  Doesn't mean that I'm likely to start killing people, just that<BR>
I have been trained to do it, and know that if I ever have to, I can do it.<BR>
<BR>
To be honest, what people take out of the military is discipline.  I could<BR>
not have made it through my cancer treatments without the endurance I<BR>
learned in the service.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
  http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/<BR>
                --|--<BR>
There's only us.      There's only this.<BR>
    No other way.     No other path.<BR>
          No day but today.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:20:41<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3147<BR>
<BR>
At 12:34 PM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Even I know that when you enlist in the armed service, you're going to get <BR>
>smacked around -- verbally and physically -- from time to time by your <BR>
>superiors. Unless they are doing you permanent damage or endangering your<BR>
>life (in peacetime), you sit there and take it and direct your anger into <BR>
>your work - finishing basic training. (Someone who's served can correct me <BR>
>if I'm mistaken here.)<BR>
<BR>
The days of sergeants beating the crap out of the subordinates are long<BR>
gone.  There are  far better ways.<BR>
<BR>
For example, soon after I made Corporal, I was assigned to handle Saturday<BR>
Detail.  This was where we sent members of our platoon who had screwed up<BR>
during the week, but not bad enough to involve the officers.<BR>
<BR>
I had two jerks who had mouthed off to the platoon sergeant, and for them I<BR>
decided that they would dig a M-60 firing position, with overhead cover and<BR>
grenade sumps.  On a nice, hot Hawaiian day.  In MOPP 2 (chemical warfare<BR>
suits w/o the gas mask.)<BR>
<BR>
After about six hours (which I spent relaxing on a lawn chair reading) they<BR>
finished.  After I inspected the position (the look in their eyes when I<BR>
pulled out the tape measure... ) I told them to fill it back in, replace<BR>
the logs they had used for overhead, and to wash their equipment.<BR>
<BR>
Needless to say, they were the model of decorum after that.<BR>
<BR>
>James reported him for it; you aren't supposed to abuse your subordinates <BR>
>like that. In my opinion, though technically within his rights, James did <BR>
>the wrong thing. James made the error in the first place; he was supposed <BR>
>to get yelled at (though, probably, he didn't deserve the scar) - that's <BR>
>how you learn these important things like not assuming that someone else <BR>
>is doing the right thing when there's a _nuclear reactor_ involved.<BR>
<BR>
I'm willing to bet that after James got chewed out, his supervisor got an<BR>
ass-chewing that required surgery.  The responsibility is always with the<BR>
leader.  It was his fault that James was inadequately trained, his fault<BR>
that he didn't supervise James, and his fault that he lost control of<BR>
himself and struck an EM.  I would've hated to see that person next<BR>
efficiency report.<BR>
<BR>
>Let's leave aside the question of whether non-military government service <BR>
>is enfranchised in ST (Heinlein said so after the fact, but the novel <BR>
>certainly gives the _impression_ that non-military service isn't as <BR>
>valuable as military -- my guess is that was an oversight on the part <BR>
>of an author who didn't realize that thousands of people would be debating<BR>
>this point over a worldwide computer network for decades to come).<BR>
<BR>
He does make it clear that there are many nonmilitary applications..<BR>
digging tunnels in Antarctica, and Carlos going to Pluto to work in a lab.<BR>
<BR>
>At worst, a dissenter only has to knuckle down and take it for two or <BR>
>four years -- keep his mouth shut and write it all down in his diary. Then<BR>
>he can start voting and change the system if he doesn't like it. <BR>
<BR>
"You'll git over it Joe, I wuz going to write a book exposing the Army<BR>
after the war too."  'Willie', as drawn by Bill Maudlin<BR>
<BR>
Actually the only thing in ST that pegged my *Huh?* meter was the position<BR>
of Sky Marshal requiring combat experience both as a commander of a MI<BR>
Regiment and a capital ship in *combat.*<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"Some days, you just can't get rid  of a bomb!"<BR>
                    -Adam West, as Batman <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 16:08:21 -0500<BR>
From: Stormhound <stormhnd@fidnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> One of them even told me he couldn't imagine living outside of the<BR>
> military any more.  Not that he loved it and wanted to make it his life<BR>
> and career, that I would have understood, but that the idea of being out<BR>
> of it terrified him.<BR>
<BR>
    Reminds me of the "institutionalized" mindset described in "The Shawshank<BR>
Redemption".<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Stormhound<BR>
DNRC Ombudsman for Induhvidual Affairs, Holder of Past Knowledge<BR>
Come visit my web page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd<BR>
Or my new Amateur Radio web page at http://www.qsl.net/kc0ekv<BR>
Or my JN6 course design page at http://www.fidnet.com/~stormhnd/golfpage.htm<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:57:13<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 01:30 PM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>In one case, he's completely unable to deal with anyone who can't give him<BR>
>orders and won't be ordered about by him.  When I went places with him I<BR>
>was always having to tell him what to do so he didn't make a fool of<BR>
>himself, and this was tough because I had to do it in such a way that<BR>
>would make him think he was in charge.<BR>
<BR>
If he was like that before, I doubt the military could be blamed.  And I'll<BR>
bet he wasn't combat arms.  We're taught to think, and to be leaders at<BR>
early rank.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:41:47 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
<BR>
On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:49:42 -0400 (EDT), "Kiri Aradia Morgan"<BR>
<tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
<BR>
>>Kiri, what mail program do you use for sending out your mail?  Mine<BR>
>>(FortEAgent) will let me set the language of each message separately.<BR>
<BR>
>My own machine sometimes hiccups when people send accented European<BR>
>characters in messages (or when I read them on web pages) because it wants<BR>
>to turn them into kanji!  I'm not going to ask them not to do that, though.<BR>
>That's just part of life in the global village...<BR>
<BR>
/me chuckles, as it seems that my own message to you did exactly that!<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:52:55 -0400<BR>
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
Subject: Heinlein (was: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers)<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:06:08 -0400 (EDT), "DaveShayne"<BR>
<daveshayne@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Starship Troopers was the first Heinlein book I read (at the insistence of<BR>
>a friend of mine who insited that the government in the book was the<BR>
>perfect type of government.) I *almost* didn't read another Heinlein book<BR>
>because of the (IMHO) specious politics presented. Luckilly I took a<BR>
>chance on *The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress* and I've now read all of<BR>
>RAH's books I've been able to find (with the exception of  *Sixth Collumn*<BR>
>which I own but haven't gotten into yet.)<BR>
<BR>
Be aware: "Sixth Column" was not the only title that story was published<BR>
under; I originally read the story under the title "The Day After<BR>
Tomorrow".<BR>
- --<BR>
Jeff Zeitlin<BR>
jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:18:59 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2000 19:49:42 -0400 (EDT), "Kiri Aradia Morgan"<BR>
> <tiamat@tsoft.com> wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
> <BR>
> >>Kiri, what mail program do you use for sending out your mail?  Mine<BR>
> >>(FortEAgent) will let me set the language of each message separately.<BR>
> <BR>
> >My own machine sometimes hiccups when people send accented European<BR>
> >characters in messages (or when I read them on web pages) because it wants<BR>
> >to turn them into kanji!  I'm not going to ask them not to do that, though.<BR>
> >That's just part of life in the global village...<BR>
> <BR>
> /me chuckles, as it seems that my own message to you did exactly that!<BR>
> <BR>
Shore did.  And it's still mojibake even as I read your reply in Pine.<BR>
<BR>
I've gotten REAAAAL good at guessing when I get messages with kanji in<BR>
the middle of perfectly good French or German words...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:23:05 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:30 PM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >In one case, he's completely unable to deal with anyone who can't give him<BR>
> >orders and won't be ordered about by him.  When I went places with him I<BR>
> >was always having to tell him what to do so he didn't make a fool of<BR>
> >himself, and this was tough because I had to do it in such a way that<BR>
> >would make him think he was in charge.<BR>
> <BR>
> If he was like that before, I doubt the military could be blamed.  And I'll<BR>
> bet he wasn't combat arms.  We're taught to think, and to be leaders at<BR>
> early rank.<BR>
> <BR>
Ah, no, before the military he was a delinquent kid who couldn't get into<BR>
college.  So instead of going to cram school he signed up.  Mind you he<BR>
wasn't in the American military.  The other two were.  Most of the people<BR>
I know who join either military come out of it better off.<BR>
<BR>
He did have problems before he joined.  But a lot of people do.  Joining<BR>
up is a time-honored way to escape living someplace that doesn't make you<BR>
happy.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3149<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, October 12 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3150<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
Re: Dresden<BR>
Re: Sergeants beating the crap out of subordinates<BR>
Re: Heinlein (was: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers)<BR>
Re: DRESDEN<BR>
Re: Dresden<BR>
Re: Will Doug rise to the challenge?<BR>
Re: Dresden<BR>
Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3147<BR>
Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: picking nits<BR>
Military life: was ST debate stuff<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Deodorant <BR>
Dulinors Motivations<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:22:12 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 13:15:17 -0400<BR>
>From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>You have a preconceived notion and are attempting to redefine the various<BR>
>scene to justify it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I have the Impressions I got reading the book. Did I read into the<BR>
book ideas that the author did not intend? Possibly, but if so<BR>
I'm not alone. I'm not the first person to comment on the fascistic<BR>
trappings of ST (although I was unaware of other commentary<BR>
at the time I first read the book.)<BR>
<BR>
I reread the book at a much later date hoping that<BR>
my initial impression of the book and the underlying philosophy<BR>
(as it appears to me) would be different. It wasn't. I then read<BR>
it a third time it still makes me shudder.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:59:25 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:03:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
>Subject:<BR>
><BR>
>> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:17:56 -0400<BR>
>> From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
>><BR>
>> >Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's writing?<BR>
>><BR>
>><BR>
>> Starship Troopers.<BR>
>><BR>
>> Oh ostensibly the government is a democracy with a limited franchise.<BR>
>> But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged veterans of<BR>
>> the military it would tend to take on the charecter of a fascist state.<BR>
><BR>
>This argument rests on a misreading of the book, coupled with a specious<BR>
>assertion.  The misreading is that only military veterans are<BR>
>enfranchised; the book makes quite clear that only those volunteering for<BR>
>a term of 'Federal Service' are enfranchised, and that the vast majority<BR>
>of FS is nonmilitary.<BR>
<BR>
I misspoke. Due in part to the fact that the only example of federal<BR>
service we see is the military. But when the franchise rests on completion<BR>
of a term of service that can be terminated by the government at the<BR>
least excuse. (getting mad and hitting somebody strikes me as a<BR>
relatively minor offense. Of course what he was really guilty of was<BR>
not respecting the military chain of command and we can have people who<BR>
don't respect us voting on the budget now can we.<BR>
)<BR>
>The specious assertion is that military veterans<BR>
>are more fascist than the general population.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps this is because of the large number of<BR>
fascists who are or have been members of the military. Certainly<BR>
this is not a condemnation of all millitary and ex military personel<BR>
but militaries of all nations have historically been havens for<BR>
authoritarian militarists (to avoid repeating the "F" word)<BR>
<BR>
>I'm not clear why this idea<BR>
>persists.  People who volunteer to risk their lives to protect freedom<BR>
>have a better empirical claim to loving freedom than the general<BR>
>population.<BR>
<BR>
Only if they are in fact volunteering to protect freedom. This is not<BR>
a given. Maybe some people volunteer for military service to escape<BR>
the freedom of general society or in order to create a power base<BR>
from which to overthrow or subvert that society.)<BR>
<BR>
>> Particularly because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash<BR>
>> opponents of the current political system out of the military before<BR>
>> enfranchisement.<BR>
><BR>
>Textual reference, please.<BR>
><BR>
>> Starship Troopers was the first Heinlein book I read (at the insistence<BR>
>> of a friend of mine who insited that the government in the book was the<BR>
>> perfect type of government.) I *almost* didn't read another Heinlein<BR>
>> book because of the (IMHO) specious politics presented. Luckilly I took<BR>
>> a chance on *The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress* and I've now read all of<BR>
>> RAH's books I've been able to find (with the exception of *Sixth<BR>
>> Collumn* which I own but haven't gotten into yet.)<BR>
><BR>
>Heinlein was too smart a man to present anything as 'the perfect type of<BR>
>government.'<BR>
<BR>
I didn't say that. I said my friend put it forth as the model for the<BR>
best possible government.<BR>
<BR>
>Each possible system of government has strengths and<BR>
>weaknesses.  For example, a smart and benevolent dictator is absolutely<BR>
>the best possible government in terms of efficiency, since she can<BR>
>intervene at any level to make needed changes without delay for debate or<BR>
>consensus-building.  The corresponding weakness is that her successor may<BR>
>be neither smart nore benevolent.  Heinlein saw both the strengths and<BR>
>weaknesses in our capitalist-republican model of government, and used his<BR>
>fiction to explore various alternative models.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm still waiting for someone to provide a reasonable, text-based case<BR>
>that ST is fascist.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
A large number of people have after reading the book come to the conclusion<BR>
that it depicts a fascist society. Perhaps the subtext of the book cries out<BR>
more<BR>
to some than others.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:10:50 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:24:02 -0700<BR>
>From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
>Subject:<BR>
><BR>
>><BR>
>> I'm still waiting for someone to provide a reasonable, text-based case<BR>
>> that ST is fascist.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>Craig,<BR>
><BR>
>Don't you know that any political system that is different than our is<BR>
>either fascist or communist? (although according to many, the US has a<BR>
>fascist government currently).  The problem is, as I think was mentioned,<BR>
>fascist is now used as a generic term for any government someone doesn't<BR>
>like, but that usually involves a government of laws (i.e. restricting what<BR>
>I can do).  Calling ST fascist really demonstrates that the posters don't<BR>
>really understand what fascism is (except that they have cool uniforms).<BR>
><BR>
>Tod<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Fascism: Government of by and for the military and security elite.<BR>
ST comes within spitting distance unless you actually believe that<BR>
everybody who gets the franchise is a selfless individual who is<BR>
willing and able to do whatever is in the best interests of society<BR>
regardless of weather that action is in the best interest of individual<BR>
in question.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:26:33 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:03:36<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject:<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>You just had to serve, in some capacity to earn the vote, and access to<BR>
>certain jobs, like police officer or teacher in H&MP.  The Rico family was<BR>
>evidently very successful without bothering to get the franchise, if Juan<BR>
>got a helicopter for his sixteenth birthday and was offered a vacation to<BR>
>Mars as a graduation gift.<BR>
<BR>
Well I had always assumed they were reasonably well off but casual<BR>
interplanetary travel is a staple of the Heinlein juvenile books.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>It's not even like the military is the only option.  Remember that Carlos<BR>
>ended up as a researcher on Pluto, and the doc told Johnny that everybody<BR>
>who came in was allowed to serve somewhere doing something.  Just as long<BR>
>as they did their two years, they got the franchise.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
*Without breaking the rules.* If you were a trouble maker (ie didn't like<BR>
the<BR>
system in the first place) your odds of surviving those two years seem<BR>
somewhat remote. (Judging of course from the one situation of that type<BR>
presented in the book.)<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:34:53 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:58:32<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject:<BR>
><BR>
>At 07:16 AM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>The only twinge of fascism might be taken if we seen<BR>
>>"History and Moral Philosophy" as a brainwashing<BR>
>>system;  it is not portrayed that way.<BR>
><BR>
>Indeed, H&MP seems designed to force the student to think and ask<BR>
>questions, both of himself and his society.  Hardly a fascist trait.<BR>
><BR>
>I've had the "Starship Troopers" is fascist" argument many times, mostly<BR>
>with people who completely ignore that the only part of that society we see<BR>
>is the last semester of high school and the military.  Hardly a fair basis<BR>
>for judgement.  After all, if you were to take a US Marine and judge<BR>
>American society based on him, you'd come up with a fascist model as well.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand we only have the pro government oppinion in the book.<BR>
If you followed the life of say Albert Speer from say '33 to '44 you might<BR>
get the impression that Nazism wasn't a half bad pollitical system either.<BR>
It's all how you look at it. And I look at Starship Troopers differently<BR>
then<BR>
most of the rest of this list apparently.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:52:15 -0500<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden<BR>
<BR>
Loren asked:<BR>
<BR>
> Varian and Lucan are sons of Strephon's sister Lydia, who married Duke<BR>
> Dresden. Is there a world called Dresden someplace in the Imperium? Are<BR>
> there any other mentions of the twin's parents anyplace?<BR>
<BR>
The general impression I've gotten was that "Dresden" didn't refer to the<BR>
title but to the person; like calling the Duke of Regina "Duke Norris".<BR>
References for Dresden are almost nonexistent.  Incidentally, since he is<BR>
dead, then presumably Varian inherited the ducal title (which might be<BR>
reflected in a reference to "Duke Varian" in one of the TNS articles from<BR>
MegaTraveller).  And people wonder why Lucan and Varian don't get along.<BR>
<BR>
Dean Jones wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I think his name was Dresden, and he was Duke of Sanches (Core 0416)<BR>
<BR>
I've seen that somewhere too, although I don't know if it was anything<BR>
more authoritative than the HIWG document Christopher Thrash came up<BR>
with.<BR>
<BR>
  [ NON-CANON NOTE:<BR>
    Note that Lucan is in about the same descent from the throne that<BR>
    Prince Michael of Kent is.  Prince Michael's father was the Duke<BR>
    of Kent (and a younger son of George VI) and his older brother is <BR>
    now the Duke of Kent.  The main difference is that the Duke and <BR>
    the Prince(ss) are two separate people in Lucan's case, but under <BR>
    Imperial practice both seem to be able to pass the rights to <BR>
    titles down.   So, is he formally "Prince Lucan of Sanches" (and<BR>
    his brother "Prince Varian, Duke of Sanches")?]<BR>
<BR>
Another interesting oddity is a reference in the MT Imperial Encyclopedia<BR>
to Strephon as Paulo's "oldest surviving issue" (p10); the MT Rebellion<BR>
Sourcebook shows Strephon simply as Paulo's oldest child.  <BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 15:52:18 -0700<BR>
From: Russell Bornschlegel <kaleja@estarcion.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sergeants beating the crap out of subordinates<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
> At 12:34 PM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> >Even I know that when you enlist in the armed service, you're going to get<BR>
> >smacked around -- verbally and physically -- from time to time by your<BR>
> >superiors....<BR>
<BR>
> The days of sergeants beating the crap out of the subordinates are long<BR>
> gone.  There are  far better ways.<BR>
<BR>
I understand that "beating the crap out of" doesn't happen -- do sergeants <BR>
ever hit recruits at all these days?<BR>
<BR>
> >James reported him for it; you aren't supposed to abuse your subordinates<BR>
> >like that. In my opinion, though technically within his rights, James did<BR>
> >the wrong thing...<BR>
> <BR>
> I'm willing to bet that after James got chewed out, his supervisor got an<BR>
> ass-chewing that required surgery.  The responsibility is always with the<BR>
> leader.  It was his fault that James was inadequately trained, his fault<BR>
> that he didn't supervise James, and his fault that he lost control of<BR>
> himself and struck an EM.  I would've hated to see that person next<BR>
> efficiency report.<BR>
<BR>
I forgot the rank of the superior; not a commissioned officer, if I remember<BR>
correctly. I don't know if that makes a difference.<BR>
<BR>
Doug, would you have reported him as James did?<BR>
<BR>
(So, let's see... according to some people around here, civilian Russell is <BR>
the fascist, and ex-sniper Doug is the pansy-ass liberal. Clearly Doug's <BR>
trainers didn't finish the brainwashing! :)<BR>
<BR>
- -RB<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 19:08:52 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (was: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers)<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:52:55 -0400<BR>
>From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com><BR>
>Subject: ><BR>
>On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 02:06:08 -0400 (EDT), "DaveShayne"<BR>
><daveshayne@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Starship Troopers was the first Heinlein book I read (at the insistence of<BR>
>>a friend of mine who insited that the government in the book was the<BR>
>>perfect type of government.) I *almost* didn't read another Heinlein book<BR>
>>because of the (IMHO) specious politics presented. Luckilly I took a<BR>
>>chance on *The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress* and I've now read all of<BR>
>>RAH's books I've been able to find (with the exception of  *Sixth Collumn*<BR>
>>which I own but haven't gotten into yet.)<BR>
><BR>
>Be aware: "Sixth Column" was not the only title that story was published<BR>
>under; I originally read the story under the title "The Day After<BR>
>Tomorrow".<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Well I already have it as "Sixth Column" and I know I haven't read it before<BR>
(The first three paragraphs are totally unfamilliar.) Others I'm sure will<BR>
thank<BR>
you for the warning.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:22:20 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: DRESDEN<BR>
<BR>
"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> ><BR>
> > ><BR>
> > >  And it's a city on Terra, Solomani Rim :)<BR>
> ><BR>
> > I had that too, but since someone else mentioned it already.......<BR>
> ><BR>
> <BR>
> Darn, must have missed that. I thought it odd noone had mentioned so obvious<BR>
> a target.<BR>
<BR>
What do you mean?  Kurt Vonnegut wrote a whole novel about Dresden being<BR>
a target....<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:09:14 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:15:07 EDT<BR>
>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: DRESDEN<BR>
><BR>
>Locations of word Dresden (off of books and HIWG CD, that are on my<BR>
computer):<BR>
><BR>
>MT Rebellion Sourcebook (pages 10 & 11? approximately)<BR>
<BR>
p. 17, "The Imperial Family"<BR>
<BR>
You also omitted the inevitable TML "discussion"* on the morality of<BR>
firebombing Dresden-the-city; I presume this was intentional.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
*Come on: even I wouldn't stoop to calling it a "flamewar"...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:15:49 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Will Doug rise to the challenge?<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Doug revealed:<BR>
>When I enlisted, some family members actually accused me of trying to live<BR>
>out a Traveller game.  (Silly family, if that was the case, I would have<BR>
>joined the Scouts.. )<BR>
<BR>
and<BR>
<BR>
>>Doug?  I know that my brother would be out buying photoshop (or downloading<BR>
>>GIMP) when faced with this challenge.<BR>
><BR>
>I can do better.. I have pictures of Craig when he was a Cub Scout.  :)<BR>
<BR>
So, to tie the two threads together, Craig's picture is going to appear under a<BR>
"We Always Said The Scouts Would Take _Anyone_" page of the Silly Era???<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 17:33:55 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden<BR>
<BR>
Christopher Thrash writes:<BR>
 <BR>
> You also omitted the inevitable TML "discussion"* on the morality of<BR>
> firebombing Dresden-the-city; I presume this was intentional.<BR>
<BR>
It's only inevitable if people like you insist on triggering it ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:01:22 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
<BR>
I was writing a bunch of replies to posts on the Starship Troopers threads<BR>
when I realised that they were all entirely OT, and that I shouldn't send<BR>
them.  So I haven't.<BR>
<BR>
I am not conceding any points under debate!<BR>
<BR>
To make this worth people's time:<BR>
I finally got hold of Rim of Fire yesterday.  What was the story with<BR>
Smades' Planet/Demeter again?<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 20:34:47 -0400<BR>
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@pcisys.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3147<BR>
<BR>
>>>Particularly<BR>
>>because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash opponents<BR>
>>of the current political system out of the military before<BR>
>enfranchisement.<<BR>
>><BR>
>>Not in the copy I read.<BR>
><BR>
>Try reading again. The only charecter in the book opposed to the<BR>
political<BR>
>order - the one charecter who joined specifically to get his<BR>
franchise so<BR>
>he could vote to change the system - was also the only charecter to<BR>
>be kicked out (except for the rapist who got hanged.) Ostensibly the<BR>
>charecter got the boot for striking the drill sgt but it was only<BR>
upon<BR>
>insisting on rights and priveledges that he was removed sans voting<BR>
rights.<BR>
>The system is geared toward keeping disenters away from the<BR>
franchise.<BR>
<BR>
	Boy, did I get a different impression of that scene. In fact, Sgt<BR>
Zim and Capt Frankel were doing EVERYTHING they could to ignore the<BR>
fact that the idiot had committed a courtmartial offense precisely so<BR>
he wouldn't get kicked out. He wasn't kicked out for insisting on<BR>
rights and privileges, nor because he was trying to "change the<BR>
system," he was kicked out for striking a superior. Period. It was<BR>
only when recruit bonehead kept pushing and forced them to take<BR>
official notice that he was kicked out. I got that the first time<BR>
through, and I was maybe ten or twelve at the time.<BR>
<BR>
	Go back and reread that scene, and then explain to me how it was a "<BR>
... system is geared toward keeping disenters away from the<BR>
franchise" in small words, please.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." <BR>
   So I installed Linux ...<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:15:19 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
>(getting mad and hitting somebody strikes me as a<BR>
relatively minor offense. Of course what he was really guilty of was<BR>
not respecting the military chain of command and we can have people who<BR>
don't respect us voting on the budget now can we.<BR>
)<<BR>
<BR>
So people wander on by and smack you upside the head regularly such that you<BR>
consider this to be minor?<BR>
On your job, when people object to the tasks assigned them is a violent<BR>
outburst considered their right and any objections to such an outburst<BR>
legitimate grounds for the objector to strike them, even though that is<BR>
technically a "minor offense"?<BR>
Even ignoring the military context, especially that it was during wartime<BR>
and really a hanging offense, are you really dismissing assault as just a<BR>
"minor offense"?<BR>
Now I am just totally baffled.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:14:13 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: picking nits<BR>
<BR>
Actually Doug it is entirely up to the soldier's Commander. The Commander<BR>
can waive his right to issue an Article 15 and request a Court Martial. He<BR>
could also decide to do absolutely nothing and still be within his rights as<BR>
the soldier's Commander. I would say that it would be dependent on the<BR>
circumstances. Lot's of witnesses, War, Peace, Moral of the unit, just any<BR>
number of things. The Commander would also have his boss, that writes his<BR>
review, watching over his shoulder and so on and so on, UP the Chain Of<BR>
Command. I have actually seen it go BOTH ways in two different locations.<BR>
<BR>
Just remember that old adage "Attitude affects Altitude" (Or is<BR>
effects...Hhhmmmm)<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 11:54 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: picking nits<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 01:44 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> In the US Army, this is an Article 15.  Many trangressions are handled by<BR>
> your commander, with loss of rank, pay, and extra duty.  You can always<BR>
> demand a court-martial, but if you are smart, you'll shut up and take your<BR>
> knocks.<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:17:19 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Military life: was ST debate stuff<BR>
<BR>
Doug Berry puts into the Ether:<BR>
>It is also to show you that you can do more, and go farther than you ever<BR>
>thought you could.  You have to get rid of the civilian mindset and<BR>
>understand that hard work and pain are now your bunkmates.  The farm kids<BR>
>adapted much quicker than us urban and suburban recruits.<BR>
<BR>
My dad went from a black dirt farm in NYS to boot camp.<BR>
He got to sleep in all the way to 0530 & gained weight during basic.<BR>
This was in 1950.<BR>
<BR>
>It is important to realize just how young a military is.  I'm shocked to<BR>
>realize that at one point, a unit I was in (D Co, 3/7 Infantry) was, with<BR>
>the exception of the First Sergeant and two platoon Sergeants, under thirty.<BR>
<BR>
When the aforementioned father did his tour of scenic Southeast Asia, was <BR>
in his early thirties.<BR>
He was a Warrant Officer with over ten years of active duty.  He was one of <BR>
the old men in his unit.<BR>
<BR>
>In some jobs, being psycho is a requirement.  I'm not joking.<BR>
After reading Richard Marcinko's biography "Rogue Warrior", my first <BR>
thought was "Why wasn't his rogue behind kicked out of the Navy long before <BR>
it was?"  My second thought was that he was just the kind of crazed psycho <BR>
to do what he was doing.  Sane people would not be qualified for this.<BR>
Larry Niven did an interestin short story on this theme.<BR>
<BR>
>To be honest, what people take out of the military is discipline.<BR>
<BR>
Bingo!<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/  Opinions Mine!<BR>
Mort Sahl: General, aren't you supporting Castro by smoking that Havana cigar?<BR>
Alexander Haig: I prefer to think of it as burning his crops to the ground.<BR>
(from an interview of Mort Sahl on National Public Radio, 23nov91)<BR>
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:20:34 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Fred wrote:<BR>
>Coincidentally, I've been<BR>
>researchint Albert Speer and Reinhard Heydrich for a couple of books I'm<BR>
>doing,<BR>
<BR>
I have a quote from Albert on my Taglines page, courtesy Robert Hughes.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:57:15 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Kurt wrote:<BR>
>Does the military of the 3I have<BR>
>units whose sole function is to help re-integrate discharged personnel into<BR>
>the ebb and flow of perceptions and attitudes of their home world when they<BR>
>returned home?<BR>
<BR>
Isn't this why so many Travellers are ex-mil? ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:37:48 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> Kurt wrote:<BR>
> >Does the military of the 3I have<BR>
> >units whose sole function is to help re-integrate discharged personnel into<BR>
> >the ebb and flow of perceptions and attitudes of their home world when they<BR>
> >returned home?<BR>
> <BR>
> Isn't this why so many Travellers are ex-mil? ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps this is also a justification for so many landed nobles (barons<BR>
and higher) among PCs.  Awarding lands is a time-honored means of<BR>
reabsorbing worthy veterans into society without having to reintegrate<BR>
them into their former homes.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:36:35 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Deodorant <BR>
<BR>
You'll all be happy to know that this discussion inspired a short piece of <BR>
flavor text in the Modular Cutter book. <BR>
<BR>
By way of explanation, one of the duties of the Traveller line manager is to <BR>
come up with random quotes out of thin air to fill in holes in the text left <BR>
by various features of the production process. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:34:30 +1100<BR>
From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
Subject: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
<BR>
OK, in my pre-rebellion campaign the players will soon be meeting up<BR>
with Dulinor, and in conversation they will here some of his beliefs<BR>
about what the imperium should be. I have the rebellion sourcebook, but<BR>
it seems a little unclear as to what he was after. So here I am on a<BR>
fishing expidition on the TML knowledge-base to see what others<BR>
interpret what changes he would have been planning (apart from shooting<BR>
the Emporer... I take that as a given). How would his changes be<BR>
different to the existing structure?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks in advance!<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ----------------<BR>
Paul Harris<BR>
Dytech Solutions<BR>
Ph: (03) 6224 4116<BR>
Fax: (03) 6224 4117<BR>
Mob: 0419 880 248<BR>
Email: paul.harris@dytech.com.au<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
- ----------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3150<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, October 13 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3151<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Fwd: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision! (OFF topic span)<BR>
Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Fwd: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision! (OFF topic  span)<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
Re: Deodorant <BR>
RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Sergeants beating the crap out of subordinates<BR>
Re: Will Doug rise to the challenge?<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:46:10 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/12/00 8:47:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR>
<BR>
> To make this worth people's time:<BR>
>  I finally got hold of Rim of Fire yesterday.  What was the story with<BR>
>  Smades' Planet/Demeter again?<BR>
<BR>
The story is that what John Harshman and the GDW staff apparently<BR>
thought was a harmless "tribute" to Jack Vance, Steve Jackson<BR>
believed to be across the border into plagiarism.<BR>
<BR>
The world writeup was done so that folks who felt attached to the<BR>
"Smade's Planet" idea could still use it (i.e. the Smades are still<BR>
around, they're just hiding from the Solomani).<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 21:38:15 -0700<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
...<BR>
>Fascism: Government of by and for the military and security elite.<BR>
<BR>
  Mussolini would have gotten a giggle from that definition.<BR>
<BR>
  Himmler wouldn't have dared to say it while Hitler lived, either :><BR>
<BR>
>ST comes within spitting distance unless you actually believe that<BR>
>everybody who gets the franchise is a selfless individual who is<BR>
>willing and able to do whatever is in the best interests of society<BR>
>regardless of weather that action is in the best interest of individual<BR>
>in question.<BR>
<BR>
  And this person read the novel, apparently...<BR>
<BR>
  ISTR a few peoples sites having essays debunking this stuff - URL's?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:32:30 -0500<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
At 12:13 AM 10/12/00, you wrote:<BR>
>On 10/11/00 at 10:12 PM,  "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
>   The second half is...well, I can't decide if it's a<BR>
>product of his illness or an inside joke that doesn't ring true for<BR>
>me.  "Friday" and *particularly* "Job:  A Comedy of Errors" are<BR>
>underrated, IMO, and should be read thoughtfully.  "Job" harkens<BR>
>back to things RAH first explored in "Strangers in a Strange Land"<BR>
>and provides a kind of closure to that universe.  "Friday" does the<BR>
>same with the classic short story "Gulf" from the '40's...and *that*<BR>
>one still gives me chills.  RAH's last novel, "The Cat that Walked<BR>
>Through Walls" was pretty weak, but he was in bad shape by then, I<BR>
>think.<BR>
<BR>
I've heard that toward the end, Heinlein was more interested in churning <BR>
out books and the quality dropped. Mostly he was trying to make sure there <BR>
would be enough royalty income once he was gone to take care of his wife <BR>
Virgina.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:39:05 -0500<BR>
From: Richard Wilson <rtwilson@rollanet.org><BR>
Subject: Fwd: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision! (OFF topic span)<BR>
<BR>
>X-Apparently-To: rtwilson2@yahoo.com via web9503.mail.yahoo.com<BR>
>X-Track: -20<BR>
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>Subject: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision!<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:41:25 -0400<BR>
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>============================<BR>
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>============================<BR>
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>killing the FDIC's Know Your Customer regulation last year.<BR>
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>to your privacy -- a bill that Congress could pass on Thursday<BR>
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>         ===============<BR>
>         IN THIS UPDATE:<BR>
><BR>
>         Secret searches provision could pass Congress by Friday,<BR>
>         and we need your help to stop it!<BR>
><BR>
>         ===============<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>The week before Congress adjourns is always a hazardous time for<BR>
>privacy rights, and this week is no exception. Politicians are<BR>
>rushing to pass several mammoth spending bills by Friday so they<BR>
>can leave Washington to campaign.<BR>
><BR>
>Unfortunately, one of those bills may contain another "sneak<BR>
>attack" on your privacy: a provision empowering federal<BR>
>bureaucrats to subpoena electronic records without a warrant --<BR>
>and without ever having to notify the owner that their property<BR>
>has been searched.<BR>
><BR>
>Sources on Capitol Hill are warning that in the final crush of<BR>
>business, Congress may quietly approve this bill -- S. 2516, the<BR>
>Fugitive Apprehension Act of 2000 -- or slip it into an unrelated<BR>
>bill.<BR>
><BR>
>Please read this brief background item and take the action<BR>
>described below immediately.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>         ==============<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>BACKGROUND:<BR>
><BR>
>The Fugitive Apprehension Act of 2000 (S. 2516),<BR>
>sponsored by Sens. Orrin Hatch, R-UT, and Patrick Leahy, D-VT,<BR>
>passed the Senate on July 26. If it passes the House this week<BR>
>it will become law.<BR>
><BR>
>Its stated purpose is to "fund task forces to locate and apprehend<BR>
>fugitives in federal, state and local felony criminal cases and<BR>
>give administrative subpoena authority to the United States<BR>
>Marshals Service."<BR>
><BR>
>Interestingly, the bill defines the term fugitive as someone who<BR>
>has merely been "accused" and not necessarily convicted of a crime.<BR>
><BR>
>And although the bill appears to be focused on "fugitives," it<BR>
>gives the government alarming new powers to search the property<BR>
>owned or controlled by people who are merely witnesses. You could<BR>
>be considered a witness if you have a friend, roommate, neighbor,<BR>
>spouse, or family member who is merely under investigation by a<BR>
>government agency.<BR>
><BR>
>If that happens, government agents would have the power to issue<BR>
>an "administrative subpoena," or the power to search your property<BR>
>and private records without a court order -- and without ever<BR>
>having to tell you they did so.<BR>
><BR>
>Specifically, S. 2516 gives federal bureaucrats the power to:<BR>
><BR>
>      * Search your "electronic data," such as bank records,<BR>
>        school records, medical data, phone bills, and e-mail<BR>
>        account. The bill says the government "may subpoena<BR>
>        witnesses for the purpose of the production of any<BR>
>        tangible records (including books, papers, documents,<BR>
>        electronic data, and other tangible and intangible<BR>
>        items) that are relevant to determining the whereabouts<BR>
>        of the fugitive."<BR>
><BR>
>      * Demand that a third party, such as your bank or<BR>
>        Internet Service Provider, turn over your personal<BR>
>        records.<BR>
><BR>
>      * Order that third party to refrain from telling you that<BR>
>        your records have been searched and/or seized by the<BR>
>        government. Under a "delayed notice" provision in<BR>
>        Section 1075 (g), the bill says the government may<BR>
>        apply for an order "commanding the provider of<BR>
>        electronic communication service or remote computing<BR>
>        service not to notify any other person of the existence<BR>
>        of the subpoena."<BR>
><BR>
>      * Gives anyone who provides this information about you<BR>
>        immunity from civil liability, meaning they can't be<BR>
>        held accountable for violating your privacy -- or for<BR>
>        failing to tell you that they have disseminated your<BR>
>        records.<BR>
><BR>
>This dramatic expansion of government power could pass Congress<BR>
>as early as Thursday, so please help us kill it immediately.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>WHAT TO DO:<BR>
><BR>
>Contact your Congressional representative and your two U.S.<BR>
>Senators immediately by calling the Capitol Hill switchboard at<BR>
>(202) 225-3121 or (202) 224-3121.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>WHAT TO SAY:<BR>
><BR>
>        (1) Identify yourself and let them know you are a voter<BR>
>in their district. Leave your name, address, complete with ZIP<BR>
>code, and phone number. Please be brief, especially if you are<BR>
>leaving a message.<BR>
><BR>
>        (2) Tell them to vote NO on S. 2516, the Fugitive<BR>
>Apprehension Act of 2000, sponsored by Sens. Hatch and Leahy.<BR>
>Tell them to vote against this bill in whatever form it takes.<BR>
>For example, it may be snuck through as an amendment to HR 3048,<BR>
>The Presidential Protection Act of 2000. Tell them to vote NO<BR>
>on any larger bill that contains this language.<BR>
><BR>
>        (3) Let them know that you oppose this bill because:<BR>
><BR>
>            * It is a flagrant attack on your privacy rights.<BR>
>              Federal employees have no business rifling<BR>
>              through your personal property or electronic<BR>
>              records simply because an acquaintance or<BR>
>              business associate may be under investigation.<BR>
><BR>
>            * It is an unconstitutional search, because no<BR>
>              court order or search warrant is required.<BR>
><BR>
>            * The "secret searches" provision is especially<BR>
>              objectionable. Empowering federal bureaucrats<BR>
>              to violate your privacy is bad enough, but<BR>
>              allowing them to do so without ever notifying<BR>
>              you is outrageous, because that makes it<BR>
>              impossible to hold them accountable.<BR>
><BR>
>        (4) Ask them to confirm their position on this secret<BR>
>searches bill, since you'll want to show their letter to all of<BR>
>your friends and relatives -- who are also registered voters in<BR>
>their district.<BR>
><BR>
>        (5) Finally, E-mail this "action item" to a friend, and<BR>
>ask them to call their representative, too.<BR>
><BR>
>        Thank you for your help!<BR>
><BR>
>        Sincerely,<BR>
><BR>
>        Steve Dasbach<BR>
>        National Director<BR>
>        Libertarian Party<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>        ==============<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>WWW links:<BR>
><BR>
>National Review article:<BR>
>http://www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel101000.shtml<BR>
><BR>
>WorldNetDaily article:<BR>
>http://worldnetdaily.com/bluesky_poole_news/20001011_xnpol_senate_bil.shtml<BR>
><BR>
>The bill itself:<BR>
>http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c106:S.2516.ES:<BR>
>(You may need to copy the URL above and paste it into your<BR>
>browser's "Location" field; the URL MUST contain the last ":"<BR>
>character for the bill text to display properly)<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>===============================================================<BR>
><BR>
>TO UNSUBSCRIBE:<BR>
>mailto:privacy-news-request@defendyourprivacy.com?body=unsubscribe<BR>
>Or, if the above method doesn't work with your software, please<BR>
>send an e-mail FROM THE ACCOUNT SUBSCRIBED to the mailing list<BR>
>to: privacy-news-request@defendyourprivacy.com and in the body of<BR>
>the message type only the word "unsubscribe" (without the quotes)<BR>
><BR>
>IF YOU HAVE A QUESTION that requires an answer, please write to<BR>
>mailto:info@defendyourprivacy.com -- any other replies to the<BR>
>List Manager or to the list itself will be deleted by our mailing<BR>
>list management software.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 01:07:32 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/13/00 12:47:33 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
shudson@lightspeed.ca writes:<BR>
<BR>
> >Fascism: Government of by and for the military and security elite.<BR>
>  <BR>
>    Mussolini would have gotten a giggle from that definition.<BR>
>  <BR>
>    Himmler wouldn't have dared to say it while Hitler lived, either :><BR>
<BR>
<* chuckle *>.<BR>
<BR>
>  >ST comes within spitting distance unless you actually believe that<BR>
>  >everybody who gets the franchise is a selfless individual who is<BR>
>  >willing and able to do whatever is in the best interests of society<BR>
>  >regardless of weather that action is in the best interest of individual<BR>
>  >in question.<BR>
>  <BR>
>    And this person read the novel, apparently...<BR>
<BR>
It occurs to me that some folks are violently allergic to almost all<BR>
things military.  Such a person would no doubt have a great deal<BR>
of trouble understanding ST. . .just like someone who has a violent<BR>
aversion to pornography would have trouble appreciating (say) Lady<BR>
Chatterly's Lover.  No sense asking someone who's metaphorically<BR>
holding his nose to distinguish fine distinctions of scent.<BR>
<BR>
(No censure implied for folks who violently dislike the military, by<BR>
the way.  It's not an attitude I share, but I understand it.)<BR>
 <BR>
>    ISTR a few peoples sites having essays debunking this stuff - URL's?<BR>
<BR>
Spider Robinson (not exactly a flaming reactionary :-) probably<BR>
wrote the best apologia for Starship Troopers.  I don't know if the<BR>
article is on the Web anywhere, but it appeared in one of his<BR>
collections.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:34:02<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Fwd: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision! (OFF topic  span)<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
Well, I muust have missed the vote where we asked for this.<BR>
<BR>
Unless an explanation is forthcoming, and *fast*, I will SpamCop this trash.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:31:27 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> First, let me say that I have read and enjoyed many Heinlein novels, and<BR>
> that I think he was undoubtedly one of the greatest and most influential SF<BR>
> authors. Further, I have to agree, in part, with the posters who don't see<BR>
> "Starship Troppers" (ST) as a fascist novel. Coincidentally, I've been<BR>
> researchint Albert Speer and Reinhard Heydrich for a couple of books I'm<BR>
> doing, and there's no way to compare the actual Fascism of the Third Reich<BR>
> with the society of ST. That said, I find ST very disturbing in it's<BR>
> presentation of a militaristic society as the best choice for governing<BR>
> mankind.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but I have to take issue with that last. the society is *not*<BR>
"militaristic". It has and values a military. But even though the<BR>
viewpoint character is more or less "in love" with the military,<BR>
there's ample evidence that society in general is *not*. <BR>
<BR>
> Part of the problem with ST is that the narrator, Johnny, has the<BR>
> "aw-shucks-Beaver" naive voice that Heinlein gave all his teenage<BR>
> narrators at the time.<BR>
<BR>
Do, note, howeve, that it's *not* one of his "juveniles". It's from a<BR>
different publisher, because he knew that the editor at Scribners<BR>
wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. (If you want to know *why*, read<BR>
"Grumbles from the Grave" and compare the Scribner's edition of "Red<BR>
Planet" with the one released more recently (from Baen?).<BR>
<BR>
> Thus, it is very difficult to tell if the 'me-first'<BR>
> ultrapatriotism of the book is meant as a satire of 1950s American<BR>
> chauvinism or is meant to be taken *literally.*<BR>
<BR>
"Ultra-patriotism"? Huh?<BR>
<BR>
Yes, the book hammers on patriotism. And Heinlein *intended* that it do<BR>
so. The book was written as a reaction to the rampant *anti*-patriotism<BR>
that culminated in the late 60s. <BR>
<BR>
But it's definitely not "love it or leave it". much less the levels<BR>
*beyond* that which some have advocated.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "me-first", though.<BR>
<BR>
> It's hard to decide on<BR>
> internal evidence from the book itself, which justifies all the military<BR>
> actions, from the unprovoked preemptive strike, barely above the level of<BR>
> terrorism, at the beginning of the book,<BR>
<BR>
Excuse me? If you are referring to the raid on the skinnies, the book<BR>
makes it quite clear that it *was* provoked. <BR>
<BR>
And raids of that nature on allies of your enemy  have a *long*<BR>
history. <BR>
<BR>
> to the perhaps justified genocide directed at the Bugs later on.<BR>
<BR>
I think we have different definitions of "genocide". <BR>
<BR>
Wiping out an enemy that won't quit attacking may *technically* be<BR>
genocide. But it's hard to apply the term to a "them or us" situation.<BR>
<BR>
> Again, it is hard to tell if this is meant as<BR>
> criticism of the 'my country/race/planet right or wrong' attitude,<BR>
<BR>
Which attitude Heinlein never espoused. <BR>
<BR>
> or the ultimate extension of Heinlein's "Don't tread on me" philosophy.<BR>
<BR>
> The book explicitly states that the militaristic society<BR>
<BR>
Again, the society is *not* militaristic. I suspect that you've fallen<BR>
into the "you have to serve in the military to gain citizenship" trap.<BR>
Even though the book *explicitly* states otherwise at several points.<BR>
<BR>
> that has evolved on<BR>
> Earth is the best solution to the problem of governing people.<BR>
<BR>
No. That it was the best that *they* had found. <BR>
<BR>
It's likely a *workable* and *stable* solution, for exactly the reasons<BR>
given in the book. But they make no pretense that it's the "best"<BR>
solution. In fact, I'm pretty sure that they explictly state that it<BR>
isn't during one of the "History and Moral Philosphy" segments,<BR>
probably one of the ones in OCS.<BR>
<BR>
> And while I<BR>
> can agree with the sentiment that people who don't give something to their<BR>
> society/government shouldn't expect to get anything in return from it, I<BR>
> find the conclusion that military rule is the best solution troubling at<BR>
> best.<BR>
<BR>
Again, the "military rule" is a figment of your imagination. That's<BR>
*not* the way the society is decscribed.<BR>
<BR>
> Certainly it would surprise citizens of one of the book's models, the<BR>
> Roman Republic. While Republican Rome shared many of the ideals of ST,<BR>
> including military service as a path to the franchise, the Republic<BR>
> ultimately collapsed not because of the connivance of Caesar, but because it<BR>
> encouraged militarism among it's politicians, who were all expected to have<BR>
> served in the army, as well as the creation of large bodies of armed men who<BR>
> owed their primary allegiance not to the state, but their general-patrons.<BR>
<BR>
But citizens were *not* expected to serve in the military in the book.<BR>
They were expected to do some form of government service. Not at all<BR>
the same thing.<BR>
<BR>
> In fact, I can think of no society<BR>
> of the top of my head where government by military officers (the de facto<BR>
> state of the ST universe; we never hear much about the civilian officials<BR>
> nominally in charge) that was more efficient and just than other<BR>
> governments; in fact, most times precisely the opposite has been the case.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but as ids *explictly* stated in the book, no *serving* military<BR>
were allowed to vote or to hold office. You didn't get that privilege<BR>
until *after* you completed your service. <BR>
<BR>
And the *majority* of citizens (except during wartime) never served in<BR>
the military anyway. That's in there too.<BR>
<BR>
No, we didn't see the civilian officials. We don't see them in most war<BR>
movies either. <BR>
<BR>
> Finally, while Heinlein presents the idea of public, corporal punishment as<BR>
> a ready corrective to many social ills, he either ignores or glosses over<BR>
> the fact that such punishment has been banned in much of the Western world<BR>
> because it was for the greater part of human history a tool of oppression. A<BR>
> glance at the Slave Codes of the United States, or Germany's Nuremburg laws<BR>
> provides ample evidence of this. Most importantly, and something Heinlein<BR>
> never confronts, is the fact that those with the franchise can be immune to<BR>
> such punishment. Sure, in the book it's clear that everyone is bound by the<BR>
> same code of law; citizens can be flogged just as quickly as taxpayers. But<BR>
> the citizens could *vote* themselves immunity, and the taxpayers would be<BR>
> powerless to prevent it; given the normal course of human affairs, I would<BR>
> expect this to eventually happen.<BR>
<BR>
Just like the citizens of the US can vote to repeal the Bill of Rights.<BR>
<BR>
And yes, when we do that, it'll be the final nail in the coffin of a<BR>
society that died long before. <BR>
<BR>
The same would be true of the society in ST.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, the taxpayers could sign up for government service<BR>
jobs (*Not* military ones), complete their terms, and vote it right<BR>
back in again.<BR>
<BR>
> Many of his books provide immediate refutation to the positions taken as<BR>
> holy writ in modern society, and the normal knee-jerk responses (democracy<BR>
> is the true expression of the will of the people, for example, which is<BR>
> gleefully demolished in "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress," IMHO his best novel)<BR>
<BR>
No, democracy *is* the true will of the people. That's true *by<BR>
definition*. What he demoloishes is the idea that the will of the<BR>
people is wise or thought out.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:04:49 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2000 6:34:am<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> One of them even told me he couldn't imagine living outside of the<BR>
> military any more.  Not that he loved it and wanted to make it his life<BR>
> and career, that I would have understood, but that the idea of being out<BR>
> of it terrified him.<BR>
<BR>
This is not uncommon to anyone institutionalised, such as boarding schools<BR>
and prison systems - the military being no different.  It's not that common<BR>
that one hears about it every time prisons, etc., are spoken of, but common<BR>
enough to be classed "not uncommon" by doctors and counsellors.<BR>
<BR>
The other folk I'd suggest, have simply had certain doors open that they<BR>
have always had hidden, they were never in a society where they felt<BR>
comfortable to go there.  A man that feels a woman is inferior, as a former<BR>
friend that never exhibited such notions probably felt he wouldn't have been<BR>
you're or anyone else's friend by voicing them (though he may well have been<BR>
outspoken on other taboo subjects, the mind can be very selective here), but<BR>
when in the services - where I understand they don't actually teach courses<BR>
in considering women to be inferior - though I can't speak for non-Aussie<BR>
services ;) - he may have come into contact with a circle of friends that<BR>
freely express those sentiments, thus freeing him to open that forgotten<BR>
door.<BR>
<BR>
I'd think that if your friend(s) joined certain clubs (military restorer's<BR>
association, a SF book/movie club, landscape gardening group, or anything)<BR>
where a group of individuals with certain outlooks, who express their ideals<BR>
freely (in this case, inferiority of women) amongst their peers - whom also<BR>
agree, would open those doors just as much as being in the military.<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:47:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
At 06:26 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>*Without breaking the rules.* If you were a trouble maker (ie didn't like<BR>
>the system in the first place) your odds of surviving those two years seem<BR>
>somewhat remote. (Judging of course from the one situation of that type<BR>
>presented in the book.)<BR>
<BR>
Well, I can't think of any system that doesn't require you to follow at<BR>
least some set of rules.<BR>
<BR>
In ST, the trainees went to Washington, which was a technical violation of<BR>
the orders for their liberty, got into a street fight, and when confronted<BR>
by a cop were sent on their way with a smile and a wave.<BR>
<BR>
One of the rules of being a soldier is learning how to break the rules.<BR>
Take for example the scene where the soldier admits to hitting the Drill<BR>
sergeant.  It was obvious to the officer that the sergeant had been struck.<BR>
 The rules stated that when confronted by such obvious evidence of a<BR>
criminal attack, he was obligated to begin an investigation. (From the US<BR>
Military's Uniform Code of Military Justice)  Instead, he was content to<BR>
let the issue slide, and ask the Drill about in private.<BR>
<BR>
The only thing that tripped the private up was his inability to shut up.<BR>
Nobody made him enlist, and by enlisting, he agreed to follow the rules.<BR>
One of those rules is that you do not hit superiors.<BR>
<BR>
Later in the book, Rico and another Corporal beat the shit out of each<BR>
other to settle a point of order.  Hardly by the book!  But it was what was<BR>
needed.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 22:49:52<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Deodorant <BR>
<BR>
At 11:36 PM 10/12/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>By way of explanation, one of the duties of the Traveller line manager is to <BR>
>come up with random quotes out of thin air to fill in holes in the text left <BR>
>by various features of the production process. <BR>
<BR>
Loren, if this ever becomes a full-time job, I'd be willing to relocate to<BR>
Austin.. :)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:11:34<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
At 05:59 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I misspoke. Due in part to the fact that the only example of federal<BR>
>service we see is the military. But when the franchise rests on completion<BR>
>of a term of service that can be terminated by the government at the<BR>
>least excuse. (getting mad and hitting somebody strikes me as a<BR>
>relatively minor offense. Of course what he was really guilty of was<BR>
>not respecting the military chain of command and we can have people who<BR>
>don't respect us voting on the budget now can we.)<BR>
<BR>
Oh, give me a break!  I'm sorry if I sound mad, but you are talking about<BR>
me, and every other veteran here!<BR>
<BR>
I served in the Army, and was trained in military courtesy and discipline.<BR>
It got to the point where I could come to attention in my sleep.  Saluting<BR>
was a reflex.<BR>
<BR>
I am now out of the military, and have been for some time.  I voted for<BR>
Bill Clinton twice.  I have completely forgotten my three General Orders. I<BR>
do not salute officers, because I don't have to.  The other day at Fleet<BR>
Week, a Navy Captain walked right by me.  I didn't even flinch.  I'm a<BR>
gay-rights activist.<BR>
<BR>
In other words, training does not turn you into a robot!<BR>
<BR>
>Only if they are in fact volunteering to protect freedom. This is not<BR>
>a given. Maybe some people volunteer for military service to escape<BR>
>the freedom of general society or in order to create a power base<BR>
>from which to overthrow or subvert that society.)<BR>
<BR>
Or some of us join to have a little adventure, or because our family for<BR>
the last few generations have all served, or because we have no other<BR>
options other than learning to smile while saying "do you want fries with<BR>
that?"  For me, it was all three.  I knew guys who joined because of honest<BR>
patriotism, and others who just wanted the college money we were promised.<BR>
<BR>
To be honest, being in the military is more likely to make one very<BR>
suspicious of your government!  You get to see more than Joe College does,<BR>
and learn about how things really work.  Hell, after training on the<BR>
Bradley, I'm very wary of any shiny new toy the brass wants.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:22:23<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Sergeants beating the crap out of subordinates<BR>
<BR>
At 03:52 PM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> The days of sergeants beating the crap out of the subordinates are long<BR>
>> gone.  There are  far better ways.<BR>
><BR>
>I understand that "beating the crap out of" doesn't happen -- do sergeants <BR>
>ever hit recruits at all these days?<BR>
<BR>
Nope.  Except in hand-to-hand training, where I had Drill Sergeant Chin<BR>
teach me that tanbark and sawdust make a tasty mid-morning snack, several<BR>
times over.<BR>
<BR>
Besides, extra physical training is more effective, and builds the team.<BR>
When somebody up-fucks, everybody pays.  You learn to help the slow, find<BR>
out where you are strong, and where you need help.<BR>
<BR>
I had problems doing the required 45 pushups in two minutes.  My platoon<BR>
mates worked with me during our minimal personal time to make sure that I<BR>
passed the test.  I tutored guys who had problems with the skull work end<BR>
of being a Warsaw Pact Ammo Collection Specialist.<BR>
<BR>
>I forgot the rank of the superior; not a commissioned officer, if I remember<BR>
>correctly. I don't know if that makes a difference.<BR>
<BR>
If he was an officer, he would have lost his career.  Losing control like<BR>
that is unforgivable for an officer and a gentleman.<BR>
<BR>
>Doug, would you have reported him as James did?<BR>
<BR>
Damn straight.  I never had time for those idiots who lead by fear.  My<BR>
lead Drill back in OSUT was Drill Sergeant Redding.  The man led through<BR>
confidence and bearing.  All he had to do was look at you and say "Son.."<BR>
and you just dropped and started knocking out the push ups.<BR>
<BR>
>(So, let's see... according to some people around here, civilian Russell is <BR>
>the fascist, and ex-sniper Doug is the pansy-ass liberal. Clearly Doug's <BR>
>trainers didn't finish the brainwashing! :)<BR>
<BR>
Well, it would explain all the copies of _The Catcher in the Rye_ I have<BR>
lying around... (conspiracy theory in joke.)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:25:28<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Will Doug rise to the challenge?<BR>
<BR>
At 11:15 AM 10/13/2000 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>So, to tie the two threads together, Craig's picture is going to appear<BR>
>under a "We Always Said The Scouts Would Take _Anyone_" page of the Silly <BR>
>Era???<BR>
<BR>
blink.<BR>
<BR>
ponder.<BR>
<BR>
I need a scanner!!!!  <BR>
<BR>
(Anybody wanting me to put up pictures like this of themselves, send them<BR>
to me in .gif format, please.)<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3151<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, October 13 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3152<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision! (OFF topic span)<BR>
Re: Is G:T useful as background material?<BR>
New GURPS Traveller stuff<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3147<BR>
Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
Re: Cobra viability<BR>
Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3150<BR>
Smade's Planet (was Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:25:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Not in the copy I read.<BR>
><BR>
> Try reading again. The only charecter in the book opposed to the political<BR>
> order - the one charecter who joined specifically to get his franchise so<BR>
> he could vote to change the system - was also the only charecter to<BR>
> be kicked out (except for the rapist who got hanged.) Ostensibly the<BR>
> charecter got the boot for striking the drill sgt but it was only upon<BR>
> insisting on rights and priveledges that he was removed sans voting rights.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but he got bounced for being terminally *stupid*. He was<BR>
insisting on "rights" and "privileges" that don't exist in *any*<BR>
workable military. And he compounded it by not having the common sense<BR>
to watch what he said about something that was a court-martial offense.<BR>
<BR>
In case you failed to notice, the instructor he struck *tried* to<BR>
ignore it. But the idiot proceeded to state *in front of witnesses*<BR>
that he'd assualted a superior. They managed to find a way to keep him<BR>
from being *executed*. <BR>
<BR>
And please note that he'd not have been much better off in any Allied<BR>
military during WWII.<BR>
<BR>
> The system is geared toward keeping disenters away from the franchise.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but the incident you chose shows the instructors trying their<BR>
best to *not* bounce the idiot. And being torpedoed because he's too<BR>
self-centered to realize that he's committed a major screw-up.<BR>
<BR>
Also, he's the only one *shown* getting kicked out. It's stated that a<BR>
lot of others washed out for many reasons. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:34:33 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:12:07 +1300<BR>
>>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>><BR>
>>On 12 Oct 2000, at 1:17, DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
>><BR>
>>> >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:21:23 PST<BR>
>>> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
Why am I listed here? None of the quoted material is from me?<BR>
<BR>
>>> But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged<BR>
>>> veterans of the military it would tend to take on the charecter of<BR>
>>> a fascist state.<BR>
>><BR>
>> All this does is make it an oligarchy. I'm at a loss as to why<BR>
>> citizen's having undergone military (though not all do military<BR>
>> service) make them into fascists. Many classical nations required<BR>
>> military service from their citizens, and they weren't fascists, so<BR>
>> presumeably it's the requirement to serve first that causes this<BR>
>> transformation.<BR>
><BR>
> And that service can be terminated by the government before completion<BR>
> thereby denying entrance to the ruling elite.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, but that *isn't* occurring. If it was, you'd have a point (and as<BR>
I noted in my reply to another message, you are way off base about the<BR>
guy who got courtmartialed for striking a superior officer)<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but your arguments make it rather clear that you are bound and<BR>
determined to twist things to justify calling the society "fascist". <BR>
<BR>
So I'm just going skip any more posts on this topic by you.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:45:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:18:36 +1300<BR>
>>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
><BR>
>>Besides it's got to be about the loosest fascism to ever grace the printed <BR>
> word <BR>
>>- - all you have to do if you don't like it is to get a mob of like minded <BR>
>>friends, join up and in two years run for office.<BR>
><BR>
> You missed out "join up, __undergo rigorous training (brainwashing)<BR>
> designed to crush any individuality and turn you into a person who<BR>
> follows orders, conforms to the thought patterns of the military, and<BR>
> supports the current organisation of the State__ and in two years run<BR>
> for office."<BR>
><BR>
> I'd hesitate to call Starship Troopers "fascism" simply because that<BR>
> word has a different meaning to everybody that uses it;  but there are<BR>
> definite points of similarity.<BR>
<BR>
>  A militarised society; <BR>
<BR>
No evidence of that. <BR>
<BR>
Just things being seen from the point of view of someone *in* the<BR>
military. And there's even evidence that the military isn't held in<BR>
especially high regard by many people!<BR>
<BR>
> strong<BR>
> distinctions drawn between the "worthy" people at the centre of power<BR>
> and the "unworthy" people who are deprived of rights;<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, nobody is *deprived* of rights. It's rather obvious that most of<BR>
the rights in the Bill of Rights are granted to taxpayers as well as<BR>
citizens. The only thing citizens get that taxpayers don't is the right<BR>
to vote, and to hold certain offices/jobs.<BR>
<BR>
And the taxpayers can get those rights if they are willing to make the<BR>
committment. <BR>
<BR>
> selfless service to the State taught as the highest good;<BR>
<BR>
Example, please?<BR>
<BR>
Also, how is this different from the sort of patriotism seen in the US<BR>
(and other countries) during most of this century (the 20th century<BR>
doesn't end until Dec 31, 2000)<BR>
<BR>
> an emphasis on death and risk<BR>
> rather than service to your fellows as being that which ennobles us.<BR>
<BR>
> (IIRC, the only way to get the franchise was through service in a job<BR>
> where you actively risked your life - so a medical _subject_ would<BR>
> qualify but a medical _researcher_ wouldn't).<BR>
<BR>
Nope. That's *explicitly* refuted in the book.  You just have do do the<BR>
job you are assigned, which must be something you are physically<BR>
*capable* of doing. You aren't required to risk your life unless you<BR>
*picked* a job (such as the military) where it is part of the job.<BR>
<BR>
One example from the book was the recruiting saregeant pointing out<BR>
that Carmen might wind up doing laundry (or was it dishes?) at the<BR>
antarctic research base.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:01:34 +0200<BR>
From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se><BR>
Subject: Re: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision! (OFF topic span)<BR>
<BR>
> >         You are receiving this update because you registered<BR>
> >at DefendYourPrivacy.com, [...]<BR>
<BR>
No, I didn't. You did, Richard, but I didn't.<BR>
<BR>
[...]<BR>
<BR>
> >WHAT TO DO:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Contact your Congressional representative and your two U.S.<BR>
> >Senators immediately by calling the Capitol Hill switchboard at<BR>
> >(202) 225-3121 or (202) 224-3121.<BR>
<BR>
Those phone numbers aren't even valid where I am. Besides, I have no<BR>
Congressional representative and no Senators.<BR>
<BR>
Even Imperial Hygiene is more interesting than this. And more on-topic.<BR>
<BR>
    /Tage<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:14:03 +0200<BR>
From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" <jenry023@student.liu.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Is G:T useful as background material?<BR>
<BR>
Stephen Tempest wrote:<BR>
> I'd say not essential, but useful and interesting.  There isn't much<BR>
> in there that would be *new* to a Trav veteran,<BR>
<BR>
I am not a veteran, having only T4 and GT materials at home. I've<BR>
learned what I know from T4 rules, GT supplements, and TML discussions.<BR>
<BR>
> but it does have all<BR>
> the basic background information gathered together in one place - a<BR>
> timeline and 60-odd pages of Library Data are probably most useful to<BR>
> people who don't actually play GURPs,<BR>
<BR>
Yes, very nice. I am looking at it right now...  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
(yes, I bought the book)<BR>
<BR>
* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm       * Student at the university *<BR>
| jenry023@student.liu.se        | of Linkoeping, Sweden     |<BR>
| ICQ UIN: 3844745               | (computer science/tech.)  |<BR>
* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male        *<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 05:38:57 -0400<BR>
From: Christopher Thrash <thrash@io.com><BR>
Subject: New GURPS Traveller stuff<BR>
<BR>
SJ Games has announced two new GURPS Traveller items, to be released in the<BR>
coming months: a GM's Screen and /Beowulf/ deckplans (first in a series of<BR>
similar items, apparently). Each will come with a sheet of Cardboard Heroes.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.sjgames.com/newproducts/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 00:06:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3147<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I had two jerks who had mouthed off to the platoon sergeant, and for them I<BR>
> decided that they would dig a M-60 firing position, with overhead cover and<BR>
> grenade sumps.  On a nice, hot Hawaiian day.  In MOPP 2 (chemical warfare<BR>
> suits w/o the gas mask.)<BR>
<BR>
We used something like that with a couple of loudmouths in Boy Scouts.<BR>
Since they had been being a pain, they got assigned to dig the classic<BR>
"6 foot hole". 6'x6'x6'. We used it for a trash pit and then they got<BR>
to fill it in...<BR>
<BR>
> Actually the only thing in ST that pegged my *Huh?* meter was the position<BR>
> of Sky Marshal requiring combat experience both as a commander of a MI<BR>
> Regiment and a capital ship in *combat.*<BR>
<BR>
Well, I get the impression that they had some "brushfire" level stuff<BR>
going on all the time. But yeah. <BR>
<BR>
I thought it was interesting, then I heard about the requirements for<BR>
bossing an air wing on a carrier...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:43:47 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:03:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
>From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
<BR>
>The specious assertion is that military veterans<BR>
>are more fascist than the general population.  I'm not clear why this idea<BR>
>persists.  <BR>
<BR>
My impression is that certain modern militaries - particularly the<BR>
German to my knowledge, and I presume those of the other Western<BR>
powers as well - put great effort into promoting the idea that<BR>
soldiers are "citizens in uniform".  That's very different to the<BR>
traditional (late C19/early C20) approach of military training and<BR>
experience, which was designed to convince soldiers that they were<BR>
members of a superior elite.  That led directly to fascism.<BR>
<BR>
After all, the original Fascists were groups of military veterans who<BR>
despised the 'weakness, factionalism and decadence' of democracy, and<BR>
wanted to reorganise their society on the simple black-and-white lines<BR>
they'd learned in the army:  a clear chain of command, with leaders<BR>
who lead and followers who follow;  unity within the group, with no<BR>
tolerance of traitors or those who question the rules;  an obvious<BR>
enemy or group of enemies that everybody can agree to oppose at all<BR>
costs;  glorification of the "Frontsoldaten" and "combattenti" who put<BR>
their lives on the line for their country, rather than the weak<BR>
civilian parasites who stayed at home;  and an emphasis on efficiency,<BR>
discipline, conformity, ruthless action, and survival of the fittest.<BR>
Such a philosophy was appealing to those who were unhappy with their<BR>
current situation, and longed for a simple solution and someone to<BR>
blame...  <BR>
<BR>
ObHeinlein:  *Many* of the elements of fascism (at least according to<BR>
my interpretation, as given above) also appear in ST - but there are<BR>
*also* significant points of difference - so in the end, I think it's<BR>
a judgement call whether you call the book "fascist" or not.  One<BR>
which may well say a lot about your own political leanings... <BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  I somehow doubt that the Imperial military promotes the ideal<BR>
of citizens in uniform.  However, the proportion of the 3I's<BR>
population with Imperial military experience is likely to be very<BR>
small, so a *mass* movement of disaffected combat veterans similar to<BR>
that which spawned fascism in 20th Century Europe seems unlikely.  If<BR>
the large-scale warfare of the Rebellion hadn't ended in the total<BR>
collapse of civilisation, however, things might have been different.<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
People who volunteer to risk their lives to protect freedom<BR>
>have a better empirical claim to loving freedom than the general<BR>
>population. <BR>
><BR>
>> Particularly because there appears to be a marked tendancy to wash<BR>
>> opponents of the current political system out of the military before<BR>
>> enfranchisement. <BR>
><BR>
>Textual reference, please.<BR>
><BR>
>> Starship Troopers was the first Heinlein book I read (at the insistence<BR>
>> of a friend of mine who insited that the government in the book was the<BR>
>> perfect type of government.) I *almost* didn't read another Heinlein<BR>
>> book because of the (IMHO) specious politics presented. Luckilly I took<BR>
>> a chance on *The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress* and I've now read all of<BR>
>> RAH's books I've been able to find (with the exception of *Sixth<BR>
>> Collumn* which I own but haven't gotten into yet.) <BR>
><BR>
>Heinlein was too smart a man to present anything as 'the perfect type of<BR>
>government.'  Each possible system of government has strengths and<BR>
>weaknesses.  For example, a smart and benevolent dictator is absolutely<BR>
>the best possible government in terms of efficiency, since she can<BR>
>intervene at any level to make needed changes without delay for debate or<BR>
>consensus-building.  The corresponding weakness is that her successor may<BR>
>be neither smart nore benevolent.  Heinlein saw both the strengths and<BR>
>weaknesses in our capitalist-republican model of government, and used his<BR>
>fiction to explore various alternative models.<BR>
><BR>
>I'm still waiting for someone to provide a reasonable, text-based case<BR>
>that ST is fascist.<BR>
><BR>
>- -- <BR>
>   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
> --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
>   |<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:17:23 -0700<BR>
>From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
><BR>
>><BR>
>> You missed out "join up, __undergo rigorous training (brainwashing)<BR>
>> designed to crush any individuality and turn you into a person who<BR>
>> follows orders, conforms to the thought patterns of the military, and<BR>
>> supports the current organisation of the State__ and in two years run<BR>
>> for office."<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>Do you mean to imply that anyone who goes through basic training and servers<BR>
>2 years military duty is incapable of making a decision that doesn't conform<BR>
>to their 'brinwashing'?  Certainly not my experience, but then, I've been<BR>
>'brainwashed' by the friendly folks at Ft. Benning .<BR>
><BR>
>Tod<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:24:02 -0700<BR>
>From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
><BR>
>><BR>
>> I'm still waiting for someone to provide a reasonable, text-based case<BR>
>> that ST is fascist.<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>Craig,<BR>
><BR>
>Don't you know that any political system that is different than our is<BR>
>either fascist or communist? (although according to many, the US has a<BR>
>fascist government currently).  The problem is, as I think was mentioned,<BR>
>fascist is now used as a generic term for any government someone doesn't<BR>
>like, but that usually involves a government of laws (i.e. restricting what<BR>
>I can do).  Calling ST fascist really demonstrates that the posters don't<BR>
>really understand what fascism is (except that they have cool uniforms).<BR>
><BR>
>Tod<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:22:40 -0400<BR>
>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Starship Troopers<BR>
><BR>
>All this discussion has convinced me to go back and re-read the book, which must give pleasure to RAH from beyond the grave, as it is surely what he intended (well, almost, 'cause I'll be reading my own copy instead of buying a new one).  Controversy ---> Curiosity ---> Increased sales ---> More money for Virginia Heinlein (which, BTW, does anyone know whether or not she's still alive?)<BR>
><BR>
>Trent<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 09:58:32<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
><BR>
>At 07:16 AM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>The only twinge of fascism might be taken if we seen<BR>
>>"History and Moral Philosophy" as a brainwashing<BR>
>>system;  it is not portrayed that way.<BR>
><BR>
>Indeed, H&MP seems designed to force the student to think and ask<BR>
>questions, both of himself and his society.  Hardly a fascist trait.<BR>
><BR>
>I've had the "Starship Troopers" is fascist" argument many times, mostly<BR>
>with people who completely ignore that the only part of that society we see<BR>
>is the last semester of high school and the military.  Hardly a fair basis<BR>
>for judgement.  After all, if you were to take a US Marine and judge<BR>
>American society based on him, you'd come up with a fascist model as well.<BR>
><BR>
>- -- <BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
>Embrace Fascism.    The uniforms look cool<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 10:03:36<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
><BR>
>At 12:00 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>>(2) direct and extreme suppression of<BR>
>>>opponents of the regime<BR>
>><BR>
>>Ya got me here although I see evidence of this<BR>
>>in Starship Troopers (even if others don't)<BR>
><BR>
>OK, I just reread the book last week, and there is almost no mention of who<BR>
>the government is even run, let alone how it handles opponents.  I did see<BR>
>freedom of the press, free movement, and open communications at all levels.<BR>
><BR>
>You just had to serve, in some capacity to earn the vote, and access to<BR>
>certain jobs, like police officer or teacher in H&MP.  The Rico family was<BR>
>evidently very successful without bothering to get the franchise, if Juan<BR>
>got a helicopter for his sixteenth birthday and was offered a vacation to<BR>
>Mars as a graduation gift.<BR>
><BR>
>It's not even like the military is the only option.  Remember that Carlos<BR>
>ended up as a researcher on Pluto, and the doc told Johnny that everybody<BR>
>who came in was allowed to serve somewhere doing something.  Just as long<BR>
>as they did their two years, they got the franchise.<BR>
>- -- <BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:37:47<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
><BR>
>At 10:45 AM 10/12/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Actually, it's very easy to do scenarios involving the Culture, just <BR>
>>make the PCs members of (or opponents of) a Special <BR>
>>Circumstances team.  However, like Banks mostly does, the key <BR>
>>is to have successful scenarios involving the Culture, which are <BR>
>>mostly set outside the Culture. Some intrigue scenarios like the <BR>
>>first part of _Player of Games_ are possible, but stories set outside <BR>
>>the Culture are definitely easier to run.<BR>
><BR>
>Indeed, Craig pushed _Consider Phlebus_ on me by saying it was just like a<BR>
>Traveller party.  And it is.<BR>
>- -- <BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 11:45:16<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
><BR>
>At 05:52 PM 10/12/2000 GMT, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>You missed out "join up, __undergo rigorous training (brainwashing)<BR>
>>designed to crush any individuality and turn you into a person who<BR>
>>follows orders, conforms to the thought patterns of the military, and<BR>
>>supports the current organisation of the State__ and in two years run<BR>
>>for office."<BR>
><BR>
>Remember the only training we saw was Rico's, which was for the Mobile<BR>
>Infantry.  If I was to compare my OSUT experience at Ft. Benning with that<BR>
>of an Air Force electronics repairman, you'd find vast differences.<BR>
><BR>
>Also, there is a vast difference between learning to follow orders and<BR>
>lacking individuality.  The 1984 presidential election occured during my<BR>
>basic training.  Despite having been in an intense military environment for<BR>
>10 weeks at that point, my ballot went for Mondale, and I still thought<BR>
>Reagan was brain dead.  But I understood that he was my Commander-in-Chief.<BR>
><BR>
>During my time in the military, I became a deadhead, read alternative<BR>
>comics, and stayed myself.  But when we went to the field, I became the<BR>
>soldier I had trained to be.<BR>
><BR>
>I would point out the both John F. Kennedy and George Bush were combat<BR>
>veterans of the US Navy's Pacific campaign of WWII.  You couldn't find two<BR>
>more divergent political opinions.<BR>
><BR>
>I do find it interesting this feeling that basic training somehow instils a<BR>
>mental clamp on freedom of thought.  It doesn't, and I'm living proof.<BR>
>- -- <BR>
><BR>
>Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
><BR>
>Embrace Fascism.    The uniforms look cool<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 14:56:48 -0400<BR>
>From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
>Subject: RE: Veedback, Near Miss and some Shows and Celebrities of the 3I (especially Solomani-heavy cultural regions)<BR>
><BR>
>>Actually, I just kind of thought about the fw Vil female names (Gam, etc..)<BR>
>>that we have and somehow based it on that.  Where's your web site?  <drewl><BR>
><BR>
>That's really rather bizarre. It's a small world and stuff.<BR>
><BR>
>It's at:<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.pil.net/~semo<BR>
><BR>
>Enjoy! :)<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 12:06:01 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
><BR>
>On Thu, 12 Oct 2000, Tod Glenn wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> > You missed out "join up, __undergo rigorous training (brainwashing)<BR>
>> > designed to crush any individuality and turn you into a person who<BR>
>> > follows orders, conforms to the thought patterns of the military, and<BR>
>> > supports the current organisation of the State__ and in two years run<BR>
>> > for office."<BR>
>> ><BR>
>> <BR>
>> Do you mean to imply that anyone who goes through basic training and<BR>
>> servers 2 years military duty is incapable of making a decision that<BR>
>> doesn't conform to their 'brinwashing'?  Certainly not my experience,<BR>
>> but then, I've been 'brainwashed' by the friendly folks at Ft. Benning<BR>
>> <BR>
>I have kind of a mixed thought process on this.  I've had friends go into<BR>
>the military and come out so messed up that I couldn't be friends with<BR>
>them any more.  They scared me.  On the other hand, I know a fair number<BR>
>of people who are currently serving or who have served in the US Military<BR>
>or the Japanese Self Defense Force who are really sharp and about as<BR>
>un-brainwashed as it is possible to be.<BR>
><BR>
>I know that military training is supposed to break down and remake your<BR>
>self image, having been told this by military people, and that this is<BR>
>necessary for most people to be able to get through combat and function as<BR>
>a team.  This sort of does quality as a form of brainwashing even though<BR>
>the results are not the same as what we think of as brainwashing.  It also<BR>
>does seem to bring out the worst in certain personality types and what<BR>
>scares me about that is that people like Pat are not necessarily the ones<BR>
>who get psych discharges either.<BR>
><BR>
>Just my 3.5 yen...<BR>
>Kiri<BR>
><BR>
>******************************************************************************<BR>
>Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
><BR>
>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
>Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
><BR>
>------------------------------<BR>
><BR>
>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3148<BR>
>***********************************<BR>
><BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:04:08 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: "John P. Raynor" <john.raynor@yale.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
<BR>
On Thu, 12 Oct 2000 JFZeigler@aol.com wrote:<BR>
> In a message dated 10/12/00 8:47:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > To make this worth people's time:<BR>
> >  I finally got hold of Rim of Fire yesterday.  What was the story with<BR>
> >  Smades' Planet/Demeter again?<BR>
> <BR>
> The story is that what John Harshman and the GDW staff apparently<BR>
> thought was a harmless "tribute" to Jack Vance, Steve Jackson<BR>
> believed to be across the border into plagiarism.<BR>
<BR>
If S.J.G. managed to choke down the great big "tribute" to H. Beam Piper<BR>
lurking out in the Spinward Marches, I don't see why the little tiny <BR>
"tribute" to Jack Vance in the Solomani Rim gave them such a bad case <BR>
of indigestion.<BR>
                                                          - J. Raynor<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:03:29 +0200<BR>
From: "Tage Borg" <tage@hem.passagen.se><BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
<BR>
> In a message dated 10/12/00 8:47:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,<BR>
> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR>
><BR>
> > To make this worth people's time:<BR>
> >  I finally got hold of Rim of Fire yesterday.  What was the story with<BR>
> >  Smades' Planet/Demeter again?<BR>
><BR>
> The story is that what John Harshman and the GDW staff apparently<BR>
> thought was a harmless "tribute" to Jack Vance, Steve Jackson<BR>
> believed to be across the border into plagiarism.<BR>
><BR>
> The world writeup was done so that folks who felt attached to the<BR>
> "Smade's Planet" idea could still use it (i.e. the Smades are still<BR>
> around, they're just hiding from the Solomani).<BR>
<BR>
What (Vance) book is that? It sounds interesting, and I've liked ever Vance<BR>
book I've read so far.<BR>
<BR>
    /Tage<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:24:21 -0600<BR>
From: Merrick Burkhardt <merrick@rt66.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Cobra viability<BR>
<BR>
Got to agree that while it looks cool at airshows, I wouldn't expect it to<BR>
be part of normal BFM. Nobody would want to blow all their E like that. If<BR>
you force the overshoot (damn unlikely, cause if the guy on your 6 is that<BR>
close you are probably already dead) you need to kill him with the snapshot<BR>
you get. If you don't, you may as well punch out cause you have no energy to<BR>
maneuver any more.<BR>
<BR>
merrick<BR>
<BR>
PS-man, I fly way too much WarBirds these days :-D<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:34:18 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/13/00 6:58:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk writes:<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  I somehow doubt that the Imperial military promotes the ideal<BR>
>  of citizens in uniform.<BR>
<BR>
Rather the converse, I would think -- my reading is that the Imperium<BR>
deliberately uses the experience of Imperial service as a tool to bring<BR>
people from eleven thousand distinct local cultures into a common<BR>
Imperial culture.<BR>
<BR>
You can't get "citizens in uniform," because before one's time in uniform<BR>
one hasn't really been exposed to Imperial citizenship as distinct from<BR>
local citizenship.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:38:53 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3150<BR>
<BR>
> Incidentally, since he is<BR>
>  dead, then presumably Varian inherited the ducal title (which might be<BR>
>  reflected in a reference to "Duke Varian" in one of the TNS articles from<BR>
>  MegaTraveller).<BR>
<BR>
I can see some justification for the title "Prince" taking precedence over <BR>
"Duke." <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:39:49 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Smade's Planet (was Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/13/00 9:18:57 AM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
john.raynor@yale.edu writes:<BR>
<BR>
> If S.J.G. managed to choke down the great big "tribute" to H. Beam Piper<BR>
>  lurking out in the Spinward Marches, I don't see why the little tiny <BR>
>  "tribute" to Jack Vance in the Solomani Rim gave them such a bad case <BR>
>  of indigestion.<BR>
<BR>
Matter of degree.  The "Sword Worlds" in the Spinward Marches have<BR>
some similarities to H. Beam Piper's creation, but it's mostly a matter<BR>
of names.  "Smade's Planet" is identical right down to specific details,<BR>
as I understand it.  Of course, I've read _Space Viking_ but not a lot<BR>
of Vance, so I have to defer to others on this point.  I didn't realize that<BR>
Smade's Planet was anything but original to John Harshman until<BR>
this came up.<BR>
<BR>
Bear in mind that Steve Jackson Games (as suggested by the name) is<BR>
something of a benign autocracy.  And in this case, the autocrat has<BR>
strong ideas about intellectual property.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3152<BR>
***********************************<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, October 13 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3153<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Smade's World/Demeter<BR>
Heinlein & ST, and a bit of a Revelation<BR>
Heinlein & ST, and a bit of a Revelation<BR>
Re: DRESDEN<BR>
Starport administration<BR>
Double posting<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Not too Long)<BR>
Re: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
Heinlein, Fascism, etc. final volly and concession<BR>
Board games<BR>
Re: Smade's Planet (was Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.)<BR>
Re: Heinlein, Fascism, etc. final volly and concession<BR>
Re: Heinlein & ST, and a bit of a Revelation<BR>
RE: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:43:21 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Smade's World/Demeter<BR>
<BR>
> To make this worth people's time:<BR>
>  I finally got hold of Rim of Fire yesterday.  What was the story with<BR>
>  Smades' Planet/Demeter again?<BR>
<BR>
Do you mean "What was the original data on Smades' Planet?"<BR>
<BR>
or<BR>
<BR>
"Why was Smade's Planet changed to Demeter in Rim of Fire?"<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:15:59 -0400<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Heinlein & ST, and a bit of a Revelation<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:<BR>
<BR>
>>Sorry, but I have to take issue with that last. the society is *not*<BR>
"militaristic". It has and values a military. But even though the<BR>
viewpoint character is more or less "in love" with the military,<BR>
there's ample evidence that society in general is *not*. <<<BR>
<BR>
A good point. I think I have uncovered part of the reason the society *is*<BR>
often perceived as militaristic by some people, which I will discuss below.<BR>
<BR>
> It's hard to decide on<BR>
> internal evidence from the book itself, which justifies all the military<BR>
> actions, from the unprovoked preemptive strike, barely above the level of<BR>
> terrorism, at the beginning of the book,<BR>
<BR>
>>Excuse me? If you are referring to the raid on the skinnies, the book<BR>
makes it quite clear that it *was* provoked.<BR>
<BR>
And raids of that nature on allies of your enemy  have a *long*<BR>
history. <<<BR>
<BR>
Yah. I want to publicly apologize for that last statement, which<BR>
demonstrates the value of reading over anything controversial *three* times<BR>
before you post it. The statement above, and my "genocide" comment, aren't<BR>
justified within the realm of ST. Unfortunately, by the time I reread the<BR>
post for the third time, I had already sent it.<BR>
<BR>
>>Again, the society is *not* militaristic. I suspect that you've fallen<BR>
into the "you have to serve in the military to gain citizenship" trap.<BR>
Even though the book *explicitly* states otherwise at several points.<<<BR>
<BR>
No, I hadn't forgotten that. I think I was confusing the disdain that Rico's<BR>
"History and Moral Philosophy" teacher demonstrates for the Western<BR>
democracies, and the rise of the veteran governments after their collapse,<BR>
with the idea that their government is the best possible one. They make no<BR>
such claim. (And my assumption that 'dissing democracy' is the equivalent of<BR>
stating that 'theirs is superior' says volumes about my own assumptions.)<BR>
<BR>
Two points here, however: the fact that the government was founded by<BR>
veterans certainly gives it a "flavor" of militarism, which adds to the<BR>
confusion about the novel. And, Leonard, while you're correct that<BR>
volunteers are not *required* to serve in the armed forces, we don't know<BR>
what percentage of volunteers are *assigned* to the armed forces. The<BR>
recruitment sergeant makes it clear that they *cannot* choose their<BR>
assigment--they might be sent to the military whether or not they want to.<BR>
Secondly, from the conversation they have with the recruitment sergeant,<BR>
it's clear that when people volunteer for a term of service, it's understood<BR>
that they mean the military, or at least the *risk* of serving in the<BR>
military--although, again, the sergeant makes it clear that they might not<BR>
actually serve in the armed forces. This whole passage from chapter 2 adds<BR>
to the confusion around the book: on the one hand, it seems clear that<BR>
volunteering for Federal service means serving in the military (at least<BR>
that's the assumption of the three teenagers, and the assumption that the<BR>
sergeant makes), while on the other hand it's clear that volunteering does<BR>
not mean that you will serve in the military!<BR>
<BR>
>>Just like the citizens of the US can vote to repeal the Bill of Rights.<BR>
<BR>
And yes, when we do that, it'll be the final nail in the coffin of a<BR>
society that died long before.<BR>
<BR>
The same would be true of the society in ST.<<<BR>
<BR>
True, but the difference, and it's an important one, is that in the US since<BR>
1920, it would be the *vast* majority of people who would be able to vote to<BR>
lose their rights.<BR>
<BR>
In ST, the majority of people could lose their rights by the actions of the<BR>
minority.<BR>
<BR>
>>On the other hand, the taxpayers could sign up for government service<BR>
jobs (*Not* military ones), complete their terms, and vote it right<BR>
back in again.<<<BR>
<BR>
But they don't have a choice of billets, as I noted above. They can try for<BR>
non-military jobs, and may get them, but the government *could* assign them<BR>
military jobs.<BR>
<BR>
Now, I think I have figured out why the book is seen as militaristic or even<BR>
fascist (which it clearly is not). The thing about ST is that *every* voice<BR>
of reason, sanity and moral authority is a military one, and military<BR>
society is presented as preferable in most ways to civilian society.<BR>
<BR>
Now, some of this is simply a depiction of how some soldiers feel once<BR>
they've gone through basic training. I'm specifically thinking of the leave<BR>
Johnny and his mates take right after basic.<BR>
<BR>
But join together the fact that military personnel/veterans are rational and<BR>
intelligent, and many civilians (including the dunderhead trainee with an<BR>
eye towards politics who thought he had the right to strike his CO during a<BR>
field excercise!) are seen as silly and foolish, with the fact that the<BR>
government was founded by veterans, requires (at first glance) service in<BR>
the military in order to earn the franchise, and the fact that a war for<BR>
survival is being fought during the book (which causes the mobilization of<BR>
society as a whole), and you can see where many people *might* take the view<BR>
that the society in ST is belligerent and militaristic. The government<BR>
Heinlein presents does not *have* to be militaristic. Obviously, people<BR>
disagree as to whether or not it is or isn't. There have been wars fought by<BR>
the Federation--in fact, there seems to be confusion as to how many (see<BR>
chapter 10; on the other hand, Johnny's father says, "we've outgrown war."),<BR>
and there are wounded veterans floating around; but without timescales and<BR>
casualty figures, these facts can't serve as evidence about the actual<BR>
militarism of ST.<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:18:33 -0400<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Heinlein & ST, and a bit of a Revelation<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:<BR>
<BR>
>>Sorry, but I have to take issue with that last. the society is *not*<BR>
"militaristic". It has and values a military. But even though the<BR>
viewpoint character is more or less "in love" with the military,<BR>
there's ample evidence that society in general is *not*. <<<BR>
<BR>
A good point. I think I have uncovered part of the reason the society *is*<BR>
often perceived as militaristic by some people, which I will discuss below.<BR>
<BR>
> It's hard to decide on<BR>
> internal evidence from the book itself, which justifies all the military<BR>
> actions, from the unprovoked preemptive strike, barely above the level of<BR>
> terrorism, at the beginning of the book,<BR>
<BR>
>>Excuse me? If you are referring to the raid on the skinnies, the book<BR>
makes it quite clear that it *was* provoked.<BR>
<BR>
And raids of that nature on allies of your enemy  have a *long*<BR>
history. <<<BR>
<BR>
Yah. I want to publicly apologize for that last statement, which<BR>
demonstrates the value of reading over anything controversial *three* times<BR>
before you post it. The statement above, and my "genocide" comment, aren't<BR>
justified within the realm of ST. Unfortunately, by the time I reread the<BR>
post for the third time, I had already sent it.<BR>
<BR>
>>Again, the society is *not* militaristic. I suspect that you've fallen<BR>
into the "you have to serve in the military to gain citizenship" trap.<BR>
Even though the book *explicitly* states otherwise at several points.<<<BR>
<BR>
No, I hadn't forgotten that. I think I was confusing the disdain that Rico's<BR>
"History and Moral Philosophy" teacher demonstrates for the Western<BR>
democracies, and the rise of the veteran governments after their collapse,<BR>
with the idea that their government is the best possible one. They make no<BR>
such claim. (And my assumption that 'dissing democracy' is the equivalent of<BR>
stating that 'theirs is superior' says volumes about my own assumptions.)<BR>
<BR>
Two points here, however: the fact that the government was founded by<BR>
veterans certainly gives it a "flavor" of militarism, which adds to the<BR>
confusion about the novel. And, Leonard, while you're correct that<BR>
volunteers are not *required* to serve in the armed forces, we don't know<BR>
what percentage of volunteers are *assigned* to the armed forces. The<BR>
recruitment sergeant makes it clear that they *cannot* choose their<BR>
assigment--they might be sent to the military whether or not they want to.<BR>
Secondly, from the conversation they have with the recruitment sergeant,<BR>
it's clear that when people volunteer for a term of service, it's understood<BR>
that they mean the military, or at least the *risk* of serving in the<BR>
military--although, again, the sergeant makes it clear that they might not<BR>
actually serve in the armed forces. This whole passage from chapter 2 adds<BR>
to the confusion around the book: on the one hand, it seems clear that<BR>
volunteering for Federal service means serving in the military (at least<BR>
that's the assumption of the three teenagers, and the assumption that the<BR>
sergeant makes), while on the other hand it's clear that volunteering does<BR>
not mean that you will serve in the military!<BR>
<BR>
>>Just like the citizens of the US can vote to repeal the Bill of Rights.<BR>
<BR>
And yes, when we do that, it'll be the final nail in the coffin of a<BR>
society that died long before.<BR>
<BR>
The same would be true of the society in ST.<<<BR>
<BR>
True, but the difference, and it's an important one, is that in the US since<BR>
1920, it would be the *vast* majority of people who would be able to vote to<BR>
lose their rights.<BR>
<BR>
In ST, the majority of people could lose their rights by the actions of the<BR>
minority.<BR>
<BR>
>>On the other hand, the taxpayers could sign up for government service<BR>
jobs (*Not* military ones), complete their terms, and vote it right<BR>
back in again.<<<BR>
<BR>
But they don't have a choice of billets, as I noted above. They can try for<BR>
non-military jobs, and may get them, but the government *could* assign them<BR>
military jobs.<BR>
<BR>
Now, I think I have figured out why the book is seen as militaristic or even<BR>
fascist (which it clearly is not). The thing about ST is that *every* voice<BR>
of reason, sanity and moral authority is a military one, and military<BR>
society is presented as preferable in most ways to civilian society.<BR>
<BR>
Now, some of this is simply a depiction of how some soldiers feel once<BR>
they've gone through basic training. I'm specifically thinking of the leave<BR>
Johnny and his mates take right after basic.<BR>
<BR>
But join together the fact that military personnel/veterans are rational and<BR>
intelligent, and many civilians (including the dunderhead trainee with an<BR>
eye towards politics who thought he had the right to strike his CO during a<BR>
field excercise!) are seen as silly and foolish, with the fact that the<BR>
government was founded by veterans, requires (at first glance) service in<BR>
the military in order to earn the franchise, and the fact that a war for<BR>
survival is being fought during the book (which causes the mobilization of<BR>
society as a whole), and you can see where many people *might* take the view<BR>
that the society in ST is belligerent and militaristic. The government<BR>
Heinlein presents does not *have* to be militaristic. Obviously, people<BR>
disagree as to whether or not it is or isn't. There have been wars fought by<BR>
the Federation--in fact, there seems to be confusion as to how many (see<BR>
chapter 10; on the other hand, Johnny's father says, "we've outgrown war."),<BR>
and there are wounded veterans floating around; but without timescales and<BR>
casualty figures, these facts can't serve as evidence about the actual<BR>
militarism of ST.<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:22:38 EDT<BR>
From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: DRESDEN<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/12/00 8:56:50 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>
owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> p. 17, "The Imperial Family"<BR>
>  <BR>
>  You also omitted the inevitable TML "discussion"* on the morality of<BR>
>  firebombing Dresden-the-city; I presume this was intentional.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  <BR>
>  *Come on: even I wouldn't stoop to calling it a "flamewar"...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Yes it was, as were the other references from the archives and the 2300 <BR>
references and the shadowrun references....  :)<BR>
<BR>
Bryan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:32:25 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
At the risk of bringing up Traveller...<BR>
<BR>
;)<BR>
<BR>
I have never been entirely comfortable with the way that I have handled<BR>
starport administration in the 3I.  IMTU the starport is extra-territorial<BR>
and is opperated by a private company with a LIC.  The vast majority of<BR>
employees are citizens of the planet and live there (including security<BR>
personel).  What happens when local police are after a "most wanted" type<BR>
who gets to the starport?  The security forces may be tempted to quietly<BR>
hand the criminal over, or they may be coerced.<BR>
<BR>
The alternative that I am considering is to have starports administered by<BR>
the Imperium at the subsector level.  Security would be provided by<BR>
subsector marines, generally from off-planet.  This makes a lot of sense,<BR>
but would require a marine base at every starport.  Just how many marines<BR>
should be available for a starport A on a Pop 6 world?  Starport D?  Pop 2?<BR>
How do others handle this?<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:40:13 -0400<BR>
From: "VonRammen" <von_rammen@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Double posting<BR>
<BR>
Folks:<BR>
<BR>
Sorry about the double (long) post. Accidents with fingers and mouse<BR>
buttons...<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:35:25 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
> I have never been entirely comfortable with the way that I have handled<BR>
> starport administration in the 3I.  IMTU the starport is extra-territorial<BR>
> and is opperated by a private company with a LIC.  The vast majority of<BR>
> employees are citizens of the planet and live there (including security<BR>
> personel).  What happens when local police are after a "most wanted" type<BR>
> who gets to the starport?  The security forces may be tempted to quietly<BR>
> hand the criminal over, or they may be coerced.<BR>
><BR>
> The alternative that I am considering is to have starports administered by<BR>
> the Imperium at the subsector level.  Security would be provided by<BR>
> subsector marines, generally from off-planet.  This makes a lot of sense,<BR>
> but would require a marine base at every starport.  Just how many marines<BR>
> should be available for a starport A on a Pop 6 world?  Starport D?  Pop<BR>
2?<BR>
> How do others handle this?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I actually take a third route.  While the startport is administered by the<BR>
Imperium, I have a whole Imperial bureaucracy that fills all the starport<BR>
functions.  Security is provided by the starport police, who may be provided<BR>
with assistance by Imperial marines.  However, it should be noted that<BR>
combat trained troops make for poor police officers.  Starport police<BR>
function much like the US capitol police.  They are Imperial (Federal)<BR>
employees/agents, who enforce starport laws and report to the Imperial<BR>
authority (Starport Authority administation).  They may or may not be<BR>
residents of the local planet, and are subject to transfer much like any US<BR>
federal law enforcement agent.  Their training and equipment is provided by<BR>
the Imperium.  Officers undergo training at the local Imperial Law<BR>
Enforcement Training Center, usually located at the subsector capital.<BR>
Other Starport employees are a mix of career Starport Authority employees<BR>
and local contractors.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:41:21 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Not too Long)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> Part of the problem with ST is that the narrator, Johnny, has the<BR>
>> "aw-shucks-Beaver" naive voice that Heinlein gave all his teenage<BR>
>> narrators at the time.<BR>
<BR>
>Do, note, howeve, that it's *not* one of his "juveniles". It's from a<BR>
>different publisher, because he knew that the editor at Scribners<BR>
>wouldn't touch it with a 10-foot pole. (If you want to know *why*, read<BR>
>"Grumbles from the Grave" and compare the Scribner's edition of "Red<BR>
>Planet" with the one released more recently (from Baen?).<BR>
<BR>
It seems Leonard has made a rare factual error here.  My impression (from both 'Expanded Universe' and 'Grumbles from the Grave') is that RAH submitted 'Starship Soldier' to Scribner's as his annual juvenile, but that Alice Dalgliesh refused to publish it, suggesting he "take a year off" and re-write it completely.  Rather than submit, Heinlein took his manuscript to Berkeley/Ace, who released it (AFAIK) without any significant changes from his original manuscript (but, tellingly, NOT as a "juvenile").<BR>
<BR>
     Of course, Heinlein pretty clearly despised Dalgliesh and was eager to terminate their publishing relationship (as long as they kept publishing his books they always had "first-look" rights at the next one), so he very well may have been deliberately provoking her and never intended that the book actually be published as a Scribner's juvenile, but the fact remains that he Did submit it to her, as a "juvenile," and only took it to another publisher after she (and, apparently, the entire editorial staff at Scribner's, including Charles Scribner, unanamously) rejected it.<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:45:20 -0400<BR>
From: "Alberti, Joe (TRANS)" <Joe.Alberti@Trans.ge.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR>
<BR>
Paul:<BR>
<BR>
The TNE Suppliment "Survival Margin"  provides some insight into the<BR>
character and motivations of Archduke Dulinor.  I use this excellent book<BR>
along with the Rebellion Sourcebook and Hard Times as my primary references<BR>
for all my MegaTraveller campaigns.<BR>
<BR>
I have been fascinated by Archduke Dulinor since he was first published in<BR>
1987.  Of all the personalities in the Traveller universe, I have always has<BR>
the most interest and admiration for Dulinor.  I know these words set me up<BR>
for a large amount of abuse on this list, but I enjoy the Rebellion Era and<BR>
MegaTraveller far more than any other version of the game.  This is what<BR>
keeps me interested in the game since 1987.  <BR>
<BR>
The following is my interpretation of Dulinor from the books mentioned<BR>
above:<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor believed that the current governt structure was hindering the<BR>
progress of the people.  The quality of peoples lives changed little over<BR>
the past 400 years. The current government stood for the status quo.  The<BR>
nobilty had no interest in change.  Sections of the Imperium were looking<BR>
out for their own interests and not those of the Imperium as a whole.<BR>
Dulinor believed that the nobility were no longer interested in their<BR>
original purpose in the Imperium.  The nobility was only looking to protect<BR>
their positions.  Dulinor was not against the nobilty, but against the empty<BR>
roles they were now filling in the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
Ilelish Sector was undergoing an economic depression.  Dulinor enacted a<BR>
number of measures as Sector Duke, to pass more responsibity to the people<BR>
at the expense of the nobilty.  He carefully measured their results and<BR>
gained more popular support for his efforts.  I believe these plans worked,<BR>
or else Dulinor would have never been so committed to the reforms he planned<BR>
for the whole Imperium.  These plans also challenged the entrenched nobilty.<BR>
Dulinor believed that involving the people in the government would<BR>
revitalize the Imperium, just as it was doing in Ilelish.<BR>
<BR>
Emperor Strephon became interested in these reforms and saw that they could<BR>
spark a revitalization of the Imperium.  He elivated Dulinor to Archduke in<BR>
1104 as a result.  Dulinor labored over the next 12 years, but was<BR>
comfronted and hindered by the conservative nobilty.  Frustrated and<BR>
impatient, he decided to take drastic actions. I believe Strephon believed<BR>
in Dulinor's reforms, but did not agree with the speed a which he wanted to<BR>
enact them.<BR>
<BR>
I would play Dulinor as a personality totally committed to his cause.<BR>
Impatient with the conservative nobilty.  Dulinor would impress someone with<BR>
his personal charisma, intelligence, and strong resolve. He was a supporter<BR>
of Strephon from 1104 to 1112.  By 1112, he was becoming frustrated with<BR>
what he perceived as a lack of support from him.<BR>
<BR>
Joe Alberti<BR>
"Long Live Emperor Dulinor!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:16:52 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Peez wrote:<BR>
> At the risk of bringing up Traveller...<BR>
> <BR>
> ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> I have never been entirely comfortable with the way that I have<BR>
> handled starport administration in the 3I.  IMTU the starport<BR>
> is extra-territorial and is opperated by a private company with<BR>
> a LIC.<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
What an odd subject to bring up on this list!<BR>
<BR>
I think this feeds into the  wider  question  of  what  *is*  the<BR>
Imperium's relationship to its citizens (something  that  changed<BR>
between CT  and  T4).  In  CT  the  Imperium's  jurisdiction  was<BR>
normally the space between the worlds, the worlds themselves were<BR>
completely autonomous.  As such, that part of the  starport  that<BR>
lies within the XT-line was *Imperial* space.  That  means  that,<BR>
regardless of how the starport is run on a day-to-day basis, once<BR>
across the XT line a fugitive is 'offplanet'.  So before you  can<BR>
say that starport personnel can hand back a fugitive you have  to<BR>
decide what extridition procedures exist between the member world<BR>
and the Imperium ... and the impact of non-compliance.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU I have starports handled by corporations (with or without  a<BR>
LIC) but with legal  control  notionally  in  the  hands  of  the<BR>
Imperial SPA (StarPort Authority).  A bit  like  modern  airports<BR>
and the FAA/CAA/whatever, but  across  the  XT-line  is  soverign<BR>
Imperial territory.  On some worlds a non-compliance return of  a<BR>
fugitive may  be  grounds  for  that  fugitive's  appeal  in  his<BR>
homeworld's courts.  Meanwhile, the SPA would officially frown at<BR>
a non-compliant return but may or may not take  action  depending<BR>
largely on the attitude of the planetary  and subsector nobility.<BR>
IMTU the Imperium often falls down on its  ideals  at  the  local<BR>
level ...  which  is  where  PC  groups  come  in.  The  Imperium<BR>
services are deliberately set up  to  produce  large  numbers  of<BR>
highly skilled veterans who travel around like  the  "Magnificant<BR>
Seven" or "The A-Team" acting as a check on local excesses.<BR>
<BR>
IMTU I use Marines  sparingly.  They  only  occasionally  provide<BR>
security for starports, and then usually only on worlds with some<BR>
sort of military conflict (like Efate).  There are exceptions:  a<BR>
small contigent of Marines is billeted on Yori, but in all  cases<BR>
the number of Marines is set by the Imperial government (based on<BR>
what the Marines are actually there to do).<BR>
<BR>
To see why consider the different responses of a SWAT team and  a<BR>
Special Forces team (SAS/whatever)  to  a  hostage  situation:  A<BR>
SWAT team are heavy armed policemen acting in a military  fashion<BR>
... but they are still  policemen  and  *should*  try  to  arrest<BR>
suspects where possible.  A Special Forces team are soldiers  and<BR>
*may* try to arrest suspects but only  when  it  is  *conveinent*<BR>
with their mission objectives.<BR>
<BR>
ObHeinlein: IMTU there are obveous parallels between the ST  film<BR>
(I haven't ready the book) and the  Imperium.  You  don't  get  a<BR>
*vote* as such for Imperial service, but you may get a knighthood<BR>
or even a noble title for it ... which is the equivalent  of  the<BR>
vote within the 3I.<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:23:29 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Heinlein, Fascism, etc. final volly and concession<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
>Oh, give me a break!  I'm sorry if I sound mad, but you are talking about<BR>
>me, and every other veteran here!<BR>
<BR>
No. I'm talking about fictional charecters in a book.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>I served in the Army, and was trained in military courtesy and discipline.<BR>
>It got to the point where I could come to attention in my sleep.  Saluting<BR>
>was a reflex.<BR>
><BR>
>I am now out of the military, and have been for some time.  I voted for<BR>
>Bill Clinton twice.  I have completely forgotten my three General Orders. I<BR>
>do not salute officers, because I don't have to.  The other day at Fleet<BR>
>Week, a Navy Captain walked right by me.  I didn't even flinch.  I'm a<BR>
>gay-rights activist.<BR>
><BR>
>In other words, training does not turn you into a robot<BR>
<BR>
I didn't say it did. I did say that the only charecter portrayed in ST<BR>
that was opposed to the current political order enough to attempt<BR>
to change it got kicked out. My impression of that incident (weather<BR>
supported by a strict reading of the text or not) was that the<BR>
government service requirement is geared toward keeping opponents<BR>
of the system away from the franchise. This has nothing to do with<BR>
real life.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>Only if they are in fact volunteering to protect freedom. This is not<BR>
>>a given. Maybe some people volunteer for military service to escape<BR>
>>the freedom of general society or in order to create a power base<BR>
>>from which to overthrow or subvert that society.)<BR>
><BR>
>Or some of us join to have a little adventure, or because our family for<BR>
>the last few generations have all served, or because we have no other<BR>
>options other than learning to smile while saying "do you want fries with<BR>
>that?"  For me, it was all three.  I knew guys who joined because of honest<BR>
>patriotism, and others who just wanted the college money we were promised.<BR>
<BR>
My point exactly. Not everybody joins the military (even in a democratic<BR>
society) wishing to defend liberty (which is the statement you made that<BR>
I was refering to) some people have other motives and some of those<BR>
motives are not pure.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>To be honest, being in the military is more likely to make one very<BR>
>suspicious of your government!<BR>
<BR>
This is true. And one of the reasons there are so many military coups in<BR>
the third world. Military leaders get a feeling that they can run a<BR>
government<BR>
at least as well as the rabble and make a few bucks for themselves as well.<BR>
<BR>
>You get to see more than Joe College does,<BR>
>and learn about how things really work.  Hell, after training on the<BR>
>Bradley, I'm very wary of any shiny new toy the brass wants.<BR>
<BR>
Please bear in mind that I'm not accusing you (or any other individual<BR>
soldior/sailor/airman whatever) of being a fascist (or any other form<BR>
of anti-democratic prick) I'm merely noting the number of fascist<BR>
and/or other militarist nationalist dictatorships are started and<BR>
perpetuated by persons who are or were members of the<BR>
armed forces of their respective governments.<BR>
<BR>
I'm talking about my impressions of the society portrayed in a book.<BR>
Nothing more and nothing less.<BR>
<BR>
Indeed something less because this is where I give my concession speech.<BR>
<BR>
Ahem - It being plainly obvious that I hold opinions on the interpretation<BR>
of the society presented in the science fiction book "Starship Troopers"<BR>
greatly at variance with the interpretations of this work by others on this<BR>
list. It being also plainly obvious that this disagreement is taking up far<BR>
to much of this lists band-width (bearing in mind that it's extreemely<BR>
unlikely that further discusion of this will alter anybody's opinion.)<BR>
<BR>
I hereby concede that I have lost this argument.<BR>
<BR>
David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:40:44 -0700<BR>
From: "Jeffrey Yin" <jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu><BR>
Subject: Board games<BR>
<BR>
Will FarFutre ever reprint 5FW or Invasion Earth? On a seperate yet vaguely<BR>
related topic, has the idea of a rebellion era board game ever appealed to<BR>
anyone?<BR>
<BR>
Jeffrey Yin<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:55:40 -0700<BR>
From: "Kelly St.Clair" <kellys@efn.org><BR>
Subject: Re: Smade's Planet (was Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.)<BR>
<BR>
>Bear in mind that Steve Jackson Games (as suggested by the name) is<BR>
>something of a benign autocracy.  And in this case, the autocrat has<BR>
>strong ideas about intellectual property.<BR>
<BR>
Benign?  Yeah, right.  That's what HE wants you to think.<BR>
<BR>
Steve Jackson is a tin$@F%&&&&&&<BR>
.<BR>
.<BR>
NO CARRIER<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --------------<BR>
Kelly St.Clair     "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>
kellys@efn.org<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:17:25<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein, Fascism, etc. final volly and concession<BR>
<BR>
At 01:23 PM 10/13/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I didn't say it did. I did say that the only charecter portrayed in ST<BR>
>that was opposed to the current political order enough to attempt<BR>
>to change it got kicked out. My impression of that incident (weather<BR>
>supported by a strict reading of the text or not) was that the<BR>
>government service requirement is geared toward keeping opponents<BR>
>of the system away from the franchise. This has nothing to do with<BR>
>real life.<BR>
<BR>
No the service is geared to keeping people who SLUG THEIR SUPERIOR OFFICERS<BR>
OUT!<BR>
<BR>
Had he not done that, or kept his mouth shut, he would have gone on to<BR>
serve his term.<BR>
<BR>
Let me explain: moving when you are not supposed to can get you, and<BR>
everybody around you killed.  I have held freezes while a man pissed on my<BR>
back.  I've had tarantulas crawl across me.  A friend once let a<BR>
cottonmouth slither across his arms.  You do not move!  And you do *not*<BR>
hit your sergeant, and if you do, you don't brag about it your superiors!<BR>
<BR>
This guy was terminally stupid.  Had he made it into the MI, he would have<BR>
ended up killing his squad.  Do you not understand that Captain Frankel<BR>
took no action until the recruit admitted to the court-martial offense?<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:39:49 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein & ST, and a bit of a Revelation<BR>
<BR>
Fred Ramen wrote,<BR>
>True, but the difference, and it's an important one, is that in the US<BR>
since<BR>
1920, it would be the *vast* majority of people who would be able to vote to<BR>
lose their rights.<BR>
<BR>
In ST, the majority of people could lose their rights by the actions of the<BR>
minority.<<BR>
<BR>
That assumes a majority of people would be exercising their right to vote.<BR>
Given the participation in recent elections, that is hardly a given. Quite<BR>
simply, a small minority determines everything these days anyway.<BR>
Further, it also fails to take into account the Republican nature of the<BR>
government. Elected officials only would vote be voting disenfranchise the<BR>
vast majority and nothing could be done to stop it short of outright<BR>
rebellion.<BR>
All of which I think goes to show why Heinlein  preferred no government.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:45:48 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
He also had a brain tumor, which was affecting both his memory and his<BR>
intelligence. In Grumbles From the Grave his wife writes of watching him<BR>
deteriorate and he speaks of it himself in letters in the book. In the last<BR>
half of his life he was often ill. Certainly the novels after Stranger In a<BR>
Strange Land were all more about social commentary than gee-wiz technology.<BR>
In fact though people were always more important in his stories than<BR>
technology, though he usually attempted a solid scientific foundation for<BR>
technology before Stranger.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
At 12:13 AM 10/12/00, you wrote:<BR>
>On 10/11/00 at 10:12 PM,  "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com> said:<BR>
><BR>
>   The second half is...well, I can't decide if it's a<BR>
>product of his illness or an inside joke that doesn't ring true for<BR>
>me.  "Friday" and *particularly* "Job:  A Comedy of Errors" are<BR>
>underrated, IMO, and should be read thoughtfully.  "Job" harkens<BR>
>back to things RAH first explored in "Strangers in a Strange Land"<BR>
>and provides a kind of closure to that universe.  "Friday" does the<BR>
>same with the classic short story "Gulf" from the '40's...and *that*<BR>
>one still gives me chills.  RAH's last novel, "The Cat that Walked<BR>
>Through Walls" was pretty weak, but he was in bad shape by then, I<BR>
>think.<BR>
<BR>
I've heard that toward the end, Heinlein was more interested in churning<BR>
out books and the quality dropped. Mostly he was trying to make sure there<BR>
would be enough royalty income once he was gone to take care of his wife<BR>
Virgina.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Richard Wilson<BR>
<BR>
rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR>
<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>
strive to overcome.<BR>
========================================================================<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3153<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, October 13 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3154<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
RE: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
RE: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR>
RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
Re: Heinlein & ST, and a bit of a Revelation<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Dresden<BR>
Re: Smade's Planet (was Re: Starship Troopers and other  threads.)<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:50:04 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
At 19:49 -0400 11/10/00, Robert Houghton <rhoughto@one.net.au> wrote:<BR>
>Sarcasm aside...closed environment on a starship...would spray <BR>
>deodourant gum up<BR>
>the filters? spread throughout the ship? after a month or so in a small ship<BR>
>(Scout/Courier) smelling a deodourant that you dislike could you use <BR>
>insanity as<BR>
>a defence when you space them and their stinky armpits?<BR>
><BR>
>You get the Idea...<BR>
<BR>
Spray deo is predominantly alcohol (butane) based. It may have a <BR>
minor active in it. Predominantly, it is a masking agent - the <BR>
alcohol/active kills the bacteria (or inhibits growth), and the <BR>
perfume masks smell. It<BR>
<BR>
Spray AP (anti-perspirant) also uses a clay base to suspend the <BR>
powder used to block pores. However, this doesn't actually inhibit <BR>
sweating, only at the places it is applied. The next result is that <BR>
you sweat more elsewhere (which may actually only appear minor as it <BR>
is over a larger area). The perfume and alcohol do the same as in <BR>
deos.<BR>
<BR>
So I suspect that AP may blind filters faster. However, the cans are <BR>
max volume 150ml typically, and not that full as they are gassed <BR>
afterwards. So I suspect that the content of the cans would not be <BR>
sufficient to knacker a decent ventilation/filtration system. I <BR>
suppose we should as the submariners on the list what their <BR>
experience are.<BR>
<BR>
I would be more concern by the fact that they are under pressure, and <BR>
extremes of external temperature and pressure may casue concern.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 11:33:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I have never been entirely comfortable with the way that I have handled<BR>
> starport administration in the 3I.  IMTU the starport is extra-territorial<BR>
> and is opperated by a private company with a LIC.  The vast majority of<BR>
> employees are citizens of the planet and live there (including security<BR>
> personel).  What happens when local police are after a "most wanted" type<BR>
> who gets to the starport?  The security forces may be tempted to quietly<BR>
> hand the criminal over, or they may be coerced.<BR>
<BR>
An individual guard or a couple of guards *might* get away with quietly<BR>
handing him over. A larger group is practically guaranteed to have<BR>
someone who'll put the job first and squawk to HQ. <BR>
<BR>
As for coercion, trying that on the starport is a *real* bad move. They<BR>
can express their displeasure in a lot of ways. From strip searches of<BR>
locals entering and leaving, to refusing to allow certain imports or<BR>
exports. <BR>
<BR>
> The alternative that I am considering is to have starports administered by<BR>
> the Imperium at the subsector level.  Security would be provided by<BR>
> subsector marines, generally from off-planet.  This makes a lot of sense,<BR>
> but would require a marine base at every starport.  Just how many marines<BR>
> should be available for a starport A on a Pop 6 world?  Starport D?  Pop 2?<BR>
<BR>
I think you made a basic mistake. The locals aren't going to be used<BR>
for security. It's too easy to bring in folks from offworld, and *much*<BR>
safer. Just consider any of *far* too many terrorist incidents in the<BR>
last 50 years.<BR>
<BR>
Also, on many worlds, locals will need a lot of training for many jobs<BR>
on in the starport. After all starports will tend to be higher TL than<BR>
the locals.<BR>
<BR>
And for locals who are employed there, one of the "perks" is likely to<BR>
be housing at the port. Including their family. <BR>
<BR>
That makes it a lot harder to pressure the workers, and makes them more<BR>
likely to feel some loyalty.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:13:58 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
>Again, the society is *not* militaristic. I suspect that you've fallen<BR>
>into the "you have to serve in the military to gain citizenship" trap.<BR>
>Even though the book *explicitly* states otherwise at several points.<BR>
<BR>
	Actually, the book does not explicitly state otherwise at several points.<BR>
The overwhelming evidence in the book points to military service and Federal<BR>
Service being one in the same. For years, on this list and in other places,<BR>
I've read folks say precisely what you've said right there. At one point, I<BR>
reread the book and paid careful attention to all of the times that Federal<BR>
Service is mentioned. It seemed quite clear that Federal Service and<BR>
military service were synonymous and that there is never an explicit mention<BR>
to the contrary.<BR>
<BR>
	My assumption after that was that supporters of the "general civil service"<BR>
read of the book had some sort of bizarre reading deficiency, or that they<BR>
were perfectly comfortable with lying to support the author whose works<BR>
they've enjoyed and still hold dear. I even wondered if, perhaps, they had<BR>
read a different version of the book than I had. I could find no evidence<BR>
that my own copy was missing anything. I was at a complete and total loss as<BR>
to why the book would say one thing, and those who support a certain<BR>
interpretation of the book were saying something completely different.<BR>
<BR>
	As a result, I simply ignored such folks and assumed that they were so<BR>
consumed with an irrational love of the author that they would misread his<BR>
work, or flat out lie about its contents. From time to time, I would have a<BR>
good chuckle at attempts to impose this favored read on others by adding new<BR>
Federal Service jobs to those listed in the book. We've even seen a little<BR>
of that recently on this very list.<BR>
<BR>
	Then, relatively recently, I happened across James Gifford's excellent<BR>
essay "The Nature of 'Federal Service' in Robert A. Heinlein's Starship<BR>
Troopers" ( http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf ). I finally<BR>
understood why so many seemingly intelligent people were saying what they<BR>
were saying. Most Heinlein supporters are also Heinlein fans, and being<BR>
Heinlein fans, they've read other works by him. In particular, they've read<BR>
Heinlein's commentary on his own work in "Expanded Universe", in which he<BR>
claims that it is explicitly stated in "Starship Troopers" that Federal<BR>
Service encompasses much more than simply military service. Not being a<BR>
Heinlein fan, I haven't read a lot of his other works.<BR>
<BR>
	To digress for a moment, I remember seeing a Rodney Dangerfield film called<BR>
"Back to School". In this movie, Dangerfield's character hires Kurt Vonnegut<BR>
to write his term paper on the works of Kurt Vonnegut. Dangerfield's<BR>
character gets a poor grade, and he calls up Vonnegut and berates him,<BR>
telling him that he doesn't know anything about Vonnegut.<BR>
<BR>
	It could have worked just as well with the "Grandmaster" himself. Heinlein,<BR>
it would appear, doesn't know much about Heinlein. To put a fine point on<BR>
it, his comment in "Expanded Universe" is incorrect. The book "Starship<BR>
Troopers" doesn't support the notion that Federal Service and military<BR>
service are two different things. In fact, there are several important<BR>
passages to the contrary! Gifford, who's actually a Heinlein fan and a fan<BR>
of the book, does a far better job than I could in pointing out these<BR>
passages, so I'll refer you to his essay. Please take the time to read it<BR>
before you respond telling me that I've "misread" the book. If you can come<BR>
up with a few passages which support what you're saying, I'd be happy to<BR>
hear them. However, Gifford seems to be pretty thorough, and he points to<BR>
all of the passages which I remember, and comes to the same conclusion I did<BR>
upon reading it a third time several years back.<BR>
<BR>
	Needless to say, my view of supporters of this read has changed slightly,<BR>
but not considerably. I am still confused by the fact that so many people<BR>
who seem to be fans of Heinlein and his works haven't noticed that there is,<BR>
in fact, a huge discrepancy between his book and the comments he made at a<BR>
later date.<BR>
<BR>
	For what it's worth, I think the full impact of Heinlein's work would be<BR>
completely lost if, as Heinlein has claimed, 95% of the Federal Service jobs<BR>
are non-military in nature. I think that the philosophical foundations on<BR>
which the book is built are severely undermined if, as some have claimed on<BR>
this list, Federal Service encompasses more or less mundane tasks in the<BR>
service of the state. In fact, I'm very confused as to why Heinlein would<BR>
compromise his own work by diluting the message so thoroughly and<BR>
completely, and why people who seem to hold the book dear on some level<BR>
would allow this to happen.<BR>
<BR>
	But hey, it is after all Heinlein's rejoinder to Remarque's "All Quiet on<BR>
the Western Front" with different assumptions about humanity and the nature<BR>
of war, not mine. He can weaken and dilute its message all he wants.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:24:18 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
>>I have never been entirely comfortable with the way that I have handled<BR>
>>starport administration in the 3I.  IMTU the starport is extra-territorial<BR>
>>and is opperated by a private company with a LIC.<BR>
>>The alternative that I am considering is to have starports administered by<BR>
>>the Imperium at the subsector level.  Security would be provided by<BR>
>>subsector marines, generally from off-planet.<BR>
>I actually take a third route.  While the startport is administered by the<BR>
>Imperium, I have a whole Imperial bureaucracy that fills all the starport<BR>
>functions.<BR>
<BR>
        This is how I would approach it.  IYTU the Imperial Starport Authority<BR>
        organized at what level?<BR>
<BR>
>Security is provided by the starport police, who may be provided<BR>
>with assistance by Imperial marines.  However, it should be noted that<BR>
>combat trained troops make for poor police officers.<BR>
<BR>
        True, but starport security may be called upon to deal with certain<BR>
        para-military situations that are extremely rare on most planets<BR>
        (eg. those PC's with gauss rifles).<BR>
<BR>
>Starport police<BR>
>function much like the US capitol police.  They are Imperial (Federal)<BR>
>employees/agents, who enforce starport laws and report to the Imperial<BR>
>authority (Starport Authority administation).  They may or may not be<BR>
>residents of the local planet, and are subject to transfer much like any US<BR>
>federal law enforcement agent.<BR>
<BR>
        The difference is that outside of the starport may be a religeous<BR>
        dictatorship with law level 12 and no right to go to the bathroom<BR>
        without a cleric's permission.  Does starport security have the right<BR>
        to pursue someone out of the starport who killed a non-believer in<BR>
        the starport?  How will the Imperium find out if starport security, in<BR>
        fear for their family's lives, secretly force sophonts back into the<BR>
        hands of the local police?<BR>
<BR>
>Their training and equipment is provided by<BR>
>the Imperium.  Officers undergo training at the local Imperial Law<BR>
>Enforcement Training Center, usually located at the subsector capital.<BR>
>Other Starport employees are a mix of career Starport Authority employees<BR>
>and local contractors.<BR>
<BR>
        I suppose that this would go under "Other" in character generation<BR>
        (that's what I use to generate police officers).<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:20:41 +0100<BR>
From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR>
<BR>
Joe Alberti wrote:<BR>
> I have been fascinated by Archduke Dulinor since he was first<BR>
> published in 1987.  Of all the personalities in the Traveller<BR>
> universe, I have always has the most interest and admiration for<BR>
> Dulinor.  I know these words set me up for a large amount of<BR>
> abuse on this list, but I enjoy the Rebellion Era and<BR>
> MegaTraveller far more than any other version of the game.<BR>
> This is what keeps me interested in the game since 1987.  <BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
How can you possibly support Dulinor?<BR>
<BR>
He instigated some changes in Illelish which helped pull  it  out<BR>
of a recession ... or coincided  with  the  natural  end  of  the<BR>
recession.  He wanted to reform the entire 3I the  same  way  and<BR>
was surprised that the 3I required more momentum  than  Illelish.<BR>
At this he became frustrated.<BR>
<BR>
So point 1: Dulinor had unrealistic goals.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor's response to this was  to  try  and  become  Emperor  by<BR>
"Right of Assassination" ... only he bungled  it  big  time!  All<BR>
prior *successful* uses of this form of change were backed up  by<BR>
overwhelming support of  the  Moot.  Not  only  did  Dulinor  not<BR>
arrange this in advance, but he was unlikely to  get  it  as  his<BR>
stated goals were to reduce the power of that self same Moot.  He<BR>
killed his friend, his friend's wife, and his  friend's  daughter<BR>
... and then ran away.  Even before Virus the destruction of  the<BR>
3I and the deaths of billions were on his hands.<BR>
<BR>
So, point 2: Dulinor was incompetant.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I would play Dulinor as a personality totally committed to his<BR>
> cause.  Impatient with the conservative nobilty.  Dulinor would<BR>
> impress someone with his personal charisma, intelligence, and<BR>
> strong resolve. He was a supporter of Strephon from 1104 to 1112.<BR>
> By 1112, he was becoming frustrated with what he perceived as a<BR>
> lack of support from him.<BR>
<BR>
To which I would add: Dulinor was bloated with his own  sense  of<BR>
self importance, he evidentally believed it was  His  destiny  to<BR>
change the 3I, to be its saviour, and damn anyone who got in  His<BR>
way.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Joe Alberti<BR>
> "Long Live Emperor Dulinor!"<BR>
<BR>
Regards PLST<BR>
"Death to the vile traitor Dulinor, the destroyer of worlds!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:33:33 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
Ah yes the bi-annual Starship Troopers is a Fascist novel Flame war. Well<BR>
I've got my fire retardant BDU's on so here goes.<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 01:17:56 -0400<BR>
> From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
><BR>
> >Care to give an example of "fascism" in Heinlein's writing?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Starship Troopers.<BR>
><BR>
> Oh ostensibly the government is a democracy with a limited franchise.<BR>
> But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged veterans of<BR>
> the military it would tend to take on the character of a fascist state.<BR>
<BR>
As previously mentioned this is a fallacious argument. I suppose some people<BR>
consider the U.S. as a fascist state, because it uses its military might to<BR>
support its political goals, but neither the U.S.'s nor ST's governments<BR>
represent fascists states in a sociopolitical sense. Having been in the<BR>
military does not mean that you are a fascist. Believing that in the<BR>
military, business or government that someone should lead, others should<BR>
follow and that people should be responsible for obeying the rules does not<BR>
make you a fascist.<BR>
In most cases leaders lead because that's what they've been trained to do<BR>
and been selected to do by someone else. In most militaries that someone is<BR>
the legal authority. In the U.S. that's the President and congress. In a<BR>
company the owners or stockholders, or board of directors select the guy (or<BR>
gal) in charge. In government the world has been moving toward electing<BR>
leaders lately (at least generally speaking, with a few exceptions.)<BR>
Once you pick a leader then you follow, not because you're a mindless drone,<BR>
but because the leader often has more information or training than you do.<BR>
In the U.S.(and in ST) individuals are expected to take initiative, but<BR>
remember whose in charge and why.<BR>
Most people I knew in the service who couldn't hack it had problems with<BR>
authority. Not because the authority was oppressive or wrong, but because<BR>
authority called on them to do things that they didn't want to do. Like work<BR>
as hard as everybody else, get up on time, be to work on time, show respect<BR>
to people selected to supervise them.<BR>
Why are such things important? Because I can't lead a group of people into a<BR>
dangerous place and keep them all alive if everybody thinks they have a<BR>
better idea of what to do. The work doesn't get done if the workers don't<BR>
show up to do it. Business is the same way. This isn't fascism, it's the way<BR>
things are when groups work together.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Fascism: Government of by and for the military and security elite.<BR>
>ST comes within spitting distance unless you actually believe that<BR>
>everybody who gets the franchise is a selfless individual who is<BR>
>willing and able to do whatever is in the best interests of society<BR>
>regardless of weather that action is in the best interest of individual<BR>
>in question.<BR>
><BR>
>David Shayne<BR>
<BR>
I suppose that it would have been in my best interest to stay at home<BR>
instead of spending six months a year going in circles in the Med. Don't<BR>
think most people of Western Europe would have enjoyed speaking Russian<BR>
though.<BR>
I guess my son's teacher, who has an engineering degree and could be making<BR>
big bucks in industry should be doing that rather than teaching for about<BR>
half of what I make. He can't possibly be just a selfless individual doing<BR>
something for society as a whole.<BR>
I guess Dick Chaney is in the same boat. It can't possible be better for him<BR>
to give up a few million a year to take a couple of hundred grand a year to<BR>
do public service. Heck, I suspect Clinton could have pulled down a couple<BR>
of mill a year as a lawyer some place.<BR>
<BR>
>I misspoke. Due in part to the fact that the only example of federal<BR>
>service we see is the military. But when the franchise rests on completion<BR>
>of a term of service that can be terminated by the government at the<BR>
>least excuse. (getting mad and hitting somebody strikes me as a<BR>
>relatively minor offense. Of course what he was really guilty of was<BR>
>not respecting the military chain of command and we can have people who<BR>
>don't respect us voting on the budget now can we.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I suggest you don't hit anyone in my hometown. Assault carries with it 2 to<BR>
5 years and typically opens you up to civil liability. Try it with a police<BR>
officer and you're likely to get another few year tacked on.<BR>
<BR>
And as mentioned above lack of respect for the chain of command is ***NOT***<BR>
a minor offense. It is an act that erodes the very fabric of a military<BR>
organization. It Gets People Killed!!!!  Someone who questions the<BR>
legitimacy of the chain of command in barracks will question it in the<BR>
field. There are ways to deal with an abusive supervisor in most military<BR>
organizations. Disrespect is ****never**** the way.<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 12:08:04 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein & ST, and a bit of a Revelation<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes:<BR>
><BR>
>>>Again, the society is *not* militaristic. I suspect that you've fallen<BR>
> into the "you have to serve in the military to gain citizenship" trap.<BR>
> Even though the book *explicitly* states otherwise at several points.<<<BR>
><BR>
> No, I hadn't forgotten that. I think I was confusing the disdain that Rico's<BR>
> "History and Moral Philosophy" teacher demonstrates for the Western<BR>
> democracies, and the rise of the veteran governments after their collapse,<BR>
> with the idea that their government is the best possible one. They make no<BR>
> such claim. (And my assumption that 'dissing democracy' is the equivalent of<BR>
> stating that 'theirs is superior' says volumes about my own assumptions.)<BR>
<BR>
They aren't dissing them for being democratic (as opposed to "pure"<BR>
democracies). They are dissing them for certain other factors. Such as<BR>
confusing "all men are equal before the law" with "all men are equal".<BR>
(A failing of several current societies)<BR>
<BR>
> Two points here, however: the fact that the government was founded by<BR>
> veterans certainly gives it a "flavor" of militarism, which adds to the<BR>
> confusion about the novel. And, Leonard, while you're correct that<BR>
> volunteers are not *required* to serve in the armed forces, we don't know<BR>
> what percentage of volunteers are *assigned* to the armed forces. The<BR>
> recruitment sergeant makes it clear that they *cannot* choose their<BR>
> assigment--they might be sent to the military whether or not they want to.<BR>
<BR>
Not quite. He states that their list of preferences are considered. But<BR>
that if they don't qualify for any of them, or if there aren't any<BR>
openings in what they chose, they will get assigned someplace where<BR>
there is a need.<BR>
<BR>
But it's also stated that you have to *volunteer* for the military. You<BR>
*don't* get assigned their unless you requested it. Rico mentions that<BR>
several times, including the comment along the lines of "I'd rather<BR>
have an empty file next to me than someone nursing 'conscript syndrome'"<BR>
<BR>
> Secondly, from the conversation they have with the recruitment sergeant,<BR>
> it's clear that when people volunteer for a term of service, it's understood<BR>
> that they mean the military, or at least the *risk* of serving in the<BR>
> military -- although, again, the sergeant makes it clear that they might not<BR>
> actually serve in the armed forces.<BR>
<BR>
Not as I recall it (my copy isn't where I can get at it). And again,<BR>
it's *explicitly stated elsewhere that at least the MI is 100% volunteer.<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, it also points out that the term is "two years or as<BR>
long as [they] are needed". <BR>
<BR>
> This whole passage from chapter 2 adds<BR>
> to the confusion around the book: on the one hand, it seems clear that<BR>
> volunteering for Federal service means serving in the military (at least<BR>
> that's the assumption of the three teenagers, and the assumption that the<BR>
> sergeant makes), while on the other hand it's clear that volunteering does<BR>
> not mean that you will serve in the military!<BR>
<BR>
I think you misread that sequence. <BR>
<BR>
>>>Just like the citizens of the US can vote to repeal the Bill of Rights.<BR>
><BR>
> And yes, when we do that, it'll be the final nail in the coffin of a<BR>
> society that died long before.<BR>
><BR>
> The same would be true of the society in ST.<<<BR>
><BR>
> True, but the difference, and it's an important one, is that in the US since<BR>
> 1920, it would be the *vast* majority of people who would be able to vote to<BR>
> lose their rights.<BR>
<BR>
Which actually puts *us* rather moreat risk, since the voters in ST are<BR>
likely to be rather more responsible. Ours have a pronounced tendency<BR>
to listen to demagogues. I'm not so sure theirs would.<BR>
<BR>
> In ST, the majority of people could lose their rights by the actions of the<BR>
> minority.<BR>
><BR>
>>>On the other hand, the taxpayers could sign up for government service<BR>
> jobs (*Not* military ones), complete their terms, and vote it right<BR>
> back in again.<<<BR>
><BR>
> But they don't have a choice of billets, as I noted above. They can try for<BR>
> non-military jobs, and may get them, but the government *could* assign them<BR>
> military jobs.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. See my comments above. It's *explicitly* stated that your<BR>
preference list gets first consideration. And it's also explicitly<BR>
stated that the military units (at least the MI) are 100% volunteer.<BR>
<BR>
There are a *lot* of "Federal Service" jobs that aren't military.<BR>
Probably most stuff that we consider "civil service" plus a lot of<BR>
"support" jobs for society in general. <BR>
<BR>
I'm willing to make a small bet that garbagemen and sewerr workers are<BR>
"federal service". :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:19:25 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> At the risk of bringing up Traveller...<BR>
> <BR>
> ;)<BR>
> <BR>
> I have never been entirely comfortable with the way that I have<BR>
> handled starport administration in the 3I.  IMTU the starport is<BR>
> extra-territorial and is opperated by a private company with a LIC. <BR>
> The vast majority of employees are citizens of the planet and live<BR>
> there (including security personel).  What happens when local police<BR>
> are after a "most wanted" type who gets to the starport?  The security<BR>
> forces may be tempted to quietly hand the criminal over, or they may<BR>
> be coerced.<BR>
> <BR>
> The alternative that I am considering is to have starports<BR>
> administered by the Imperium at the subsector level.  Security would<BR>
> be provided by subsector marines, generally from off-planet.  This<BR>
> makes a lot of sense, but would require a marine base at every<BR>
> starport.  Just how many marines should be available for a starport A<BR>
> on a Pop 6 world?  Starport D?  Pop 2? How do others handle this?<BR>
<BR>
My preferred alternative comes straight from Eluki Bes Shahar's <BR>
Darktrader trilogy (Hellflower, Darktraders, Archangel Blues).  All A <BR>
& B Starports are run by the Imperium.  Many of the employees <BR>
are locals, but the higher ups are Imperial civil servants. Also, all <BR>
military personnel are Imperial military, since the defense of these <BR>
places is purely up to the Imperium. Given that most A & B <BR>
starports are pretty large I would expect a good number (minimum <BR>
of 100) of troops.    <BR>
<BR>
Many Class C starports are also Imperial.  However, some C and <BR>
many D starports are purely private concerns.  As such, they are <BR>
great places to avoid being turned over the the Imperial Authorities <BR>
if you are wanted for crimes, but poor places to buy spare parts <BR>
since quality control and safety are not guaranteed. Then again, <BR>
the worst such places are generally avoided or are shut down if <BR>
crime becomes too rampant , so most are non-horrible.<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com   <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:31:20 -0500<BR>
From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: Dresden<BR>
<BR>
Loren replied:<BR>
<BR>
> > Incidentally, since he is<BR>
> >  dead, then presumably Varian inherited the ducal title (which might be<BR>
> >  reflected in a reference to "Duke Varian" in one of the TNS articles from<BR>
> >  MegaTraveller).<BR>
><BR>
> I can see some justification for the title "Prince" taking precedence over <BR>
> "Duke." <BR>
<BR>
Sure.  Like I said, "Prince Varian, Duke of _".  TNS obviously messed<BR>
up a little on his titles in the assassination confusion.  :)  As a point<BR>
of interest, look at www.royal.gov.uk for what the British currently<BR>
do; Prince Edward, Duke of Kent seems to get referred to in text as <BR>
"the Duke" for short; maybe because any of his siblings could be called <BR>
"the Prince(ss)" for short, but there's only one Duke of Kent.  <BR>
<BR>
In a Traveller context, I'd think that Varian might have the right to<BR>
sit in the Moot as the Duke of _, but not due to his being a prince.  <BR>
Also, I forget just who in the Imperial family is prohibited from being<BR>
in the Moot; Varian might have a right as duke but be barred outright <BR>
*because* he's a prince, depending on how the Imperium handles this.<BR>
The Imperium ain't Brits in Space either.  :) <BR>
<BR>
The relevant Varian quotes from Challenge 29 follow, edited for length:<BR>
<BR>
     Capital/Core (0508-A586A98-F) Date: 134-1116 <BR>
       Captain Sir Gerals Spirlandin, commanding the Honor Company of the <BR>
     2nd Imperial Marine regiment, denied reports that Duke Varian, <BR>
     Strephon's nephew and heir apparent to the Iridium Throne, was killed <BR>
     in skirmishes within the Imperial Palace yesterday.<BR>
     [...]<BR>
<BR>
  -----<BR>
<BR>
     Capital/Core (0508-A586A98-F) Date: 135-1116<BR>
     [...]<BR>
       The body of Prince Varian, until today heir apparent to the Iridium <BR>
     Throne, was recovered from the Imperial Palace this afternoon, and<BR>
     now lies in state alongside the Emperor in the central Hall of Nobles<BR>
     beneath the Moot Spire.  Varian's funeral is scheduled for Thirday.<BR>
     [...]<BR>
<BR>
  -- Steve Bonneville<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 13:37:12<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Smade's Planet (was Re: Starship Troopers and other  threads.)<BR>
<BR>
At 10:55 AM 10/13/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Steve Jackson is a tin$@F%&&&&&&<BR>
>.<BR>
>.<BR>
>NO CARRIER<BR>
<BR>
Loren:<BR>
<BR>
The problem has been dealt with.<BR>
<BR>
Special Agent Penguin.<BR>
<BR>
Fnord.  All Hail Eris, All Hail SJG!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:29:05 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 15:06 -0400 12/10/00, "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
<gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
>Indeed, Craig pushed _Consider Phlebus_ on me by saying it was just like a<BR>
>Traveller party.  And it is.<BR>
<BR>
Although I think that 'Against a Dark Background' is possibly even <BR>
more like a Traveller party's actions?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:26:09 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 15:06 -0400 12/10/00, sneadj@mindspring.com wrote:<BR>
>Actually, it's very easy to do scenarios involving the Culture, just<BR>
>make the PCs members of (or opponents of) a Special<BR>
>Circumstances team.  However, like Banks mostly does, the key<BR>
>is to have successful scenarios involving the Culture, which are<BR>
>mostly set outside the Culture. Some intrigue scenarios like the<BR>
>first part of _Player of Games_ are possible, but stories set outside<BR>
>the Culture are definitely easier to run.<BR>
<BR>
The new novel, 'Look to Windward' is also set in the Culture...<BR>
<BR>
Mini Review Rating... 4/5 Look to Windward - Iain M Banks: Banks is <BR>
one of the few authors who I will happily buy in hardback (the <BR>
other's are Gibson and Cherryh) but this time I was given the book as <BR>
a present by my parents for my birthday. This is one of his SF novels <BR>
(the 'M' in the name gives that away) and is once again set in the <BR>
Culture, his utopian civilisation. The action in the novel is set <BR>
over a short time period between two novas that the AI Mind of an <BR>
orbital habitat is using to commemorate the events of the 800 year <BR>
past Idirian War. The war was first introduced in his first SF novel, <BR>
'Consider Phlebas', a book which shares the same quotation from TS <BR>
Elliot's 'The Wasteland' as a source for the title. The unusual side <BR>
to the book is that the Culture is viewed from the perspective of <BR>
outsiders living inside it. Revealing much about the plot will ruin <BR>
it, but it is a great mesh of well integrated flashbacks that lead <BR>
the plot on. I enjoyed the book a lot, but didn't give it five out of <BR>
five mainly because it's not got the fire of his previous novels like <BR>
'Excession', 'Consider Phlebas', 'Use of Weapons' and 'Against a Dark <BR>
Background'. A recent interview with Banks stated that he is finding <BR>
it increasingly hard to write novels (he's probably been turning out <BR>
at least one SF and one contemporary novel a year for the past few <BR>
years) and is taking a year's sabbatical. This probably means at <BR>
least 18 months to his next novel, so enjoy this one because it's <BR>
going to be a while before you see the next...[17/9/00]<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
         "People who beat their swords into plowshares<BR>
           tend to get wiped out by people who don't." sfconsim-l<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:04:05 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
<BR>
>I have never been entirely comfortable with the way that I have handled<BR>
starport administration >in the 3I.  IMTU the starport is extra-territorial<BR>
and is opperated by a private company with a >LIC.  The vast majority of<BR>
employees are citizens of the planet and live there (including<BR>
>security personel).  What happens when local police are after a "most<BR>
wanted" type who gets to<BR>
>the starport?  The security forces may be tempted to quietly hand the<BR>
criminal over, or they may >be coerced.<BR>
<BR>
What does this have to do with Robert Heinlein's crypto-fascism or lack<BR>
thereof?  I really wish people would at least make an attempt to stay<BR>
on-topic ...<BR>
<BR>
Oh.  Never mind.<BR>
<BR>
You were asking about starport administration.  There is an article on the<BR>
Starport Authority in, I think, JTAS #20.  Maybe it's #18.<BR>
<BR>
Anyway, here is how I approach these situations:  The starport is<BR>
extra-territorial.  It may be operated by a private company, by a<BR>
semi-private company (kind of like the U.S. Postal Service), by a government<BR>
agency (Imperial Starports Authority (ISPA) in my Traveller universe), or<BR>
sometimes by whatever the local noble sets up.  Nearly all of the staff are<BR>
citizens of the planet.  Usually no one resides in the starport proper.<BR>
<BR>
Local police in hot pursuit may cross the extrality line.  The hot pursuit<BR>
must be obvious, or the local police will be in violation of starport<BR>
security regulations (by entering without passing the security checkpoint)<BR>
and subject to arrest by starport security.  If the suspect has gotten into<BR>
the starport well ahead of pursuit, the starport authority may be persuaded<BR>
to detain him or her (or whatever) (1) pursuant to treaty between the member<BR>
state and the Imperium or (2) if he/she/whatever is a threat to Imperial<BR>
security.  Someone who is accused of being a serial killer is probably not a<BR>
threat to Imperial security.  Someone carrying a deadly and contagious<BR>
disease probably is.<BR>
<BR>
Strategic starports are likely to be under ISPA administration.  They may<BR>
have Imperial Marines running security.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3154<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Friday, October 13 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3155<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Disjointed thoughts on Democracies and Oligarchies<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Heinlein (and Gifford's essay thereon)<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: More Heinlein<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:04:11 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Trevor, Peter" <Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com><BR>
<BR>
>I think this feeds into the  wider  question  of  what  *is*  the<BR>
Imperium's relationship to its >citizens (something  that  changed between<BR>
CT  and  T4).<BR>
<BR>
It's not so much that the relationship changed from CT to T4, as that it<BR>
changed from Year 0 (T4) to Year 1105 (CT).<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:34:08 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>What happens when local police are after a "most wanted" type<BR>
>>who gets to the starport?  The security forces may be tempted to quietly<BR>
>>hand the criminal over, or they may be coerced.<BR>
>An individual guard or a couple of guards *might* get away with quietly<BR>
>handing him over. A larger group is practically guaranteed to have<BR>
>someone who'll put the job first and squawk to HQ. <BR>
<BR>
        That depends on the disposition of the other security types, the<BR>
        level of security in the starport, and the attitude of the HQ.<BR>
<BR>
>As for coercion, trying that on the starport is a *real* bad move. They<BR>
>can express their displeasure in a lot of ways. From strip searches of<BR>
>locals entering and leaving, to refusing to allow certain imports or<BR>
>exports. <BR>
<BR>
        Who said anything about coercion on the starport?  It's just that<BR>
        a few of the citizens who work there have been found to be guilty of<BR>
        disloyalty to the state.  Even if the senior administrators decide to<BR>
        spend the rest of their lives in a reeducation camp for causing<BR>
        trouble, there is no guarentee that the local rulers will mind if a few<BR>
        of their subjects are inconvenienced by the starport authority.  If<BR>
        the authority insists on seriously disrupting trade, then the local<BR>
        government will be the least of its problems.<BR>
<BR>
>>The alternative that I am considering is to have starports administered by<BR>
>>the Imperium at the subsector level.  Security would be provided by<BR>
>>subsector marines, generally from off-planet.  This makes a lot of sense,<BR>
>>but would require a marine base at every starport.  Just how many marines<BR>
>>should be available for a starport A on a Pop 6 world?  Starport D?  Pop 2?<BR>
>I think you made a basic mistake. The locals aren't going to be used<BR>
>for security. It's too easy to bring in folks from offworld, and *much*<BR>
>safer. Just consider any of *far* too many terrorist incidents in the<BR>
>last 50 years.<BR>
<BR>
        I presume that you are refering to my original system, not the one<BR>
        suggested above.  Terrorism has not been a problem IMTU, so that<BR>
        is not a concern.  Even if security is brought in from off-world, they<BR>
        still have to live on-world (I do not envisage people living in the<BR>
        starport).  I do agree that security from off-world would be better,<BR>
        but I still see problems.<BR>
<BR>
>Also, on many worlds, locals will need a lot of training for many jobs<BR>
>on in the starport. After all starports will tend to be higher TL than<BR>
>the locals.<BR>
<BR>
        For some jobs, certainly.  For other jobs, sometimes.  It will<BR>
        depend on a number of factors.  I like the image of pack<BR>
        animals being unloaded into a Freetrader.<BR>
<BR>
>And for locals who are employed there, one of the "perks" is likely to<BR>
>be housing at the port. Including their family. <BR>
<BR>
        I guess that we just have different ideas on starports.  I don't see<BR>
        more than a very few non-military people living in a starport.<BR>
<BR>
>That makes it a lot harder to pressure the workers, and makes them more<BR>
>likely to feel some loyalty.<BR>
<BR>
        Definitely.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:37:28 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
> To digress for a moment, I remember seeing a Rodney Dangerfield film<BR>
called<BR>
> "Back to School". In this movie, Dangerfield's character hires Kurt<BR>
Vonnegut<BR>
> to write his term paper on the works of Kurt Vonnegut. Dangerfield's<BR>
> character gets a poor grade, and he calls up Vonnegut and berates him,<BR>
> telling him that he doesn't know anything about Vonnegut.<BR>
><BR>
> It could have worked just as well with the "Grandmaster" himself.<BR>
Heinlein,<BR>
> it would appear, doesn't know much about Heinlein. To put a fine point on<BR>
<BR>
I think the point of 'Back to School' was not that Vonnegut didn't know<BR>
anything about 'Vonnegut', but rather those that literati who write about<BR>
what the author means in his work, are out of step with what the author<BR>
intended.  Anyone who has sat through one of those dreary leactures where<BR>
the english prof discusses the meaning of the grass in Joseph Contrad's<BR>
"Heart of Darkness" must wonder what the author himself would say about the<BR>
lecturer.<BR>
<BR>
One more than one occassion, I have heard reviews make strange<BR>
pronouncements about an author's work, only to have the author say "No.<BR>
That's not what I meant".  I am generally of the opinion that we should<BR>
accept the authors own explaination of his work over that of the reviewer.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:55:48 -0700<BR>
From: "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
> >I actually take a third route.  While the startport is administered by<BR>
the<BR>
> >Imperium, I have a whole Imperial bureaucracy that fills all the starport<BR>
> >functions.<BR>
><BR>
>         This is how I would approach it.  IYTU the Imperial Starport<BR>
Authority<BR>
>         organized at what level?<BR>
<BR>
IMTU, the Starport Fall under the interior ministry, and reports to the<BR>
Imperial Bureaucracy at the subsector level. A senior administrator is in<BR>
charge of each planet's starport facilities (much like the mayor of DC).<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >Security is provided by the starport police, who may be provided<BR>
> >with assistance by Imperial marines.  However, it should be noted that<BR>
> >combat trained troops make for poor police officers.<BR>
><BR>
>         True, but starport security may be called upon to deal with<BR>
certain<BR>
>         para-military situations that are extremely rare on most planets<BR>
>         (eg. those PC's with gauss rifles).<BR>
<BR>
That is what the swat teams are for.  These are probably ex military types,<BR>
well equiped and receiving special training.  Note that in the US, the<BR>
constraints of Posse Comitatus mean that the military cannot be used to<BR>
inforce civil law, despite the capacities of the law breakers, except in<BR>
case of marshal law.  In the case of the starport, if things get out of<BR>
hand, and the starport police cant handle thing, they will call out the SRT<BR>
teams.  Since the Imperium doesn't have the limitations of Posse Comitatus,<BR>
if it got really ugly, and forces were available, the SA aministrator could<BR>
request help from the local military commander.  However, I view this as<BR>
rare and unlikely.  The Starport police will probably have access to<BR>
anything the PCs are likely to have, there are more of them, and they will<BR>
have good communication and access to startport systems.  On an up port they<BR>
can seal sections and all kinds of other nasty stuff.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>         The difference is that outside of the starport may be a religeous<BR>
>         dictatorship with law level 12 and no right to go to the bathroom<BR>
>         without a cleric's permission.  Does starport security have the<BR>
right<BR>
>         to pursue someone out of the starport who killed a non-believer in<BR>
>         the starport?<BR>
<BR>
No.  Their stautory authority exists only on Imperial territory.  But that<BR>
doesn't mean that they don't have a working relationship with the locals.<BR>
And the locals won't necessarily want to ignore a request for extradition<BR>
from the startport authority, and by association, the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
>How will the Imperium find out if starport security, in<BR>
>         fear for their family's lives, secretly force sophonts back into<BR>
the<BR>
>         hands of the local police?<BR>
<BR>
Some one will talk.  As they say, three can keep a secret if 2 are dead.<BR>
Plus there is the sense of duty and pride thing.  "How dare you threaten an<BR>
agent of the Imperium!".  In the US, threatening a Federal law enforcement<BR>
agent can land you in federal prison.  Heck, you can get 5 years in the penn<BR>
just for lying to one.<BR>
<BR>
SA officers are likely to be off worlders, so there won't necessarily be any<BR>
fondness for the local planet or it's government.  In any case, one of the<BR>
perks will probably be housing on station.  And threats against the familiy<BR>
of an Imperial agent will be an Imperial crime, one that the Imperium will<BR>
not take likely.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >Their training and equipment is provided by<BR>
> >the Imperium.  Officers undergo training at the local Imperial Law<BR>
> >Enforcement Training Center, usually located at the subsector capital.<BR>
> >Other Starport employees are a mix of career Starport Authority employees<BR>
> >and local contractors.<BR>
><BR>
>         I suppose that this would go under "Other" in character generation<BR>
>         (that's what I use to generate police officers).<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Whe have extended character generation for law enforcement.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:53:07 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Anthony Jackson <ajackson@molly.iii.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
> One more than one occassion, I have heard reviews make strange<BR>
> pronouncements about an author's work, only to have the author say "No.<BR>
> That's not what I meant".  I am generally of the opinion that we should<BR>
> accept the authors own explaination of his work over that of the reviewer.<BR>
<BR>
While it's certainly possible to read someone's work and do some extrapolation<BR>
about the psychology of the author, I tend to believe most authors about their<BR>
conscious motivations (unless I have some reason to think the author is lying,<BR>
of course).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:39:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> So I suspect that AP may blind filters faster. However, the cans are <BR>
> max volume 150ml typically, and not that full as they are gassed <BR>
> afterwards. So I suspect that the content of the cans would not be <BR>
> sufficient to knacker a decent ventilation/filtration system. I <BR>
> suppose we should as the submariners on the list what their <BR>
> experience are.<BR>
><BR>
> I would be more concern by the fact that they are under pressure, and <BR>
> extremes of external temperature and pressure may casue concern.<BR>
<BR>
There won't be such exctremes onboard ship except in emergencies. And<BR>
during that sort of emergency, odds are that anything the cans do would<BR>
be pretty minor by comparison.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:48:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The difference is that outside of the starport may be a religeous<BR>
> dictatorship with law level 12 and no right to go to the bathroom<BR>
> without a cleric's permission.  Does starport security have the right<BR>
> to pursue someone out of the starport who killed a non-believer in<BR>
> the starport?<BR>
<BR>
Interesting question. Probably not.<BR>
<BR>
> How will the Imperium find out if starport security, in fear for<BR>
> their family's lives, secretly force sophonts back into the hands of<BR>
> the local police?<BR>
<BR>
Which is why locals employed by the starport would get housing for<BR>
themselves and at least their immediate family.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, it's *also* why locals aren't likely to be employed as<BR>
security. At least on *that* sort of planet.<BR>
<BR>
> I suppose that this would go under "Other" in character generation<BR>
> (that's what I use to generate police officers).<BR>
<BR>
Cute. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:56:35 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>Again, the society is *not* militaristic. I suspect that you've fallen<BR>
>>into the "you have to serve in the military to gain citizenship" trap.<BR>
>>Even though the book *explicitly* states otherwise at several points.<BR>
><BR>
>     Actually, the book does not explicitly state otherwise at several points.<BR>
> The overwhelming evidence in the book points to military service and Federal<BR>
> Service being one in the same. For years, on this list and in other places,<BR>
> I've read folks say precisely what you've said right there. At one point, I<BR>
> reread the book and paid careful attention to all of the times that Federal<BR>
> Service is mentioned. It seemed quite clear that Federal Service and<BR>
> military service were synonymous and that there is never an explicit mention<BR>
> to the contrary.<BR>
<BR>
Only because you *assume* facts not in evidence. <BR>
<BR>
For example, when the recruiting sargeant suggestes that Carmen might<BR>
wind up in the Antarctic base doing washing, you probably assume that<BR>
it's a *miltary* base. I don't. <BR>
<BR>
>   My assumption after that was that supporters of the "general civil service"<BR>
> read of the book had some sort of bizarre reading deficiency, or that they<BR>
> were perfectly comfortable with lying to support the author whose works<BR>
> they've enjoyed and still hold dear. I even wondered if, perhaps, they had<BR>
> read a different version of the book than I had. I could find no evidence<BR>
> that my own copy was missing anything. I was at a complete and total loss as<BR>
> to why the book would say one thing, and those who support a certain<BR>
> interpretation of the book were saying something completely different.<BR>
<BR>
I am going to ignore the major slur against me and everyone else who<BR>
differs with you.<BR>
<BR>
But I'll note that you obviously have the rather common bad habit of<BR>
reading things into material that are not actually there. <BR>
<BR>
That is, you see A and because in your experience B is "always" present<BR>
when A is, you *assume* that B is also present. And then proceed to<BR>
reason from there.<BR>
<BR>
Thus, you *assume* that because the examples of federal service that<BR>
aren't explicitly labeled as miltary *or* non-military *could* be<BR>
miltary, they *must* be military. <BR>
<BR>
I see them, note that such jobs are usually *civilian*, and assign them<BR>
to "probably non-military". <BR>
<BR>
>       As a result, I simply ignored such folks and assumed that they were so<BR>
> consumed with an irrational love of the author that they would misread his<BR>
> work, or flat out lie about its contents. From time to time, I would have a<BR>
> good chuckle at attempts to impose this favored read on others by adding new<BR>
> Federal Service jobs to those listed in the book. We've even seen a little<BR>
> of that recently on this very list.<BR>
<BR>
>       Then, relatively recently, I happened across James Gifford's excellent<BR>
> essay "The Nature of 'Federal Service' in Robert A. Heinlein's Starship<BR>
> Troopers" ( http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf ). I finally<BR>
> understood why so many seemingly intelligent people were saying what they<BR>
> were saying. Most Heinlein supporters are also Heinlein fans, and being<BR>
> Heinlein fans, they've read other works by him. In particular, they've read<BR>
> Heinlein's commentary on his own work in "Expanded Universe", in which he<BR>
> claims that it is explicitly stated in "Starship Troopers" that Federal<BR>
> Service encompasses much more than simply military service. Not being a<BR>
> Heinlein fan, I haven't read a lot of his other works.<BR>
<BR>
And you are are willing to not only call us liars, but claim that<BR>
Heinlein was lying about his book? <BR>
<BR>
So much for expecting rational discussion.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>   It could have worked just as well with the "Grandmaster" himself. Heinlein,<BR>
> it would appear, doesn't know much about Heinlein. To put a fine point on<BR>
> it, his comment in "Expanded Universe" is incorrect.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but you are just as wrong as the instructor was. Claiming to<BR>
"know" what an author intended, when the author himself says otherwise<BR>
is the highest degree of arrogant presumption.<BR>
<BR>
And it's a reason I I don't think much of most literary critics.<BR>
<BR>
> The book "Starship<BR>
> Troopers" doesn't support the notion that Federal Service and military<BR>
> service are two different things. In fact, there are several important<BR>
> passages to the contrary! Gifford, who's actually a Heinlein fan and a fan<BR>
> of the book, does a far better job than I could in pointing out these<BR>
> passages, so I'll refer you to his essay. Please take the time to read it<BR>
> before you respond telling me that I've "misread" the book. If you can come<BR>
> up with a few passages which support what you're saying, I'd be happy to<BR>
> hear them. However, Gifford seems to be pretty thorough, and he points to<BR>
> all of the passages which I remember, and comes to the same conclusion I did<BR>
> upon reading it a third time several years back.<BR>
<BR>
Right, I'm going to dig up this essay, just to agrue a point that you<BR>
have made it clear you won't concede?<BR>
<BR>
If it's ok for Gifford to quote the passages, it's ok for you to quote<BR>
them too. <BR>
<BR>
>    Needless to say, my view of supporters of this read has changed slightly,<BR>
> but not considerably. I am still confused by the fact that so many people<BR>
> who seem to be fans of Heinlein and his works haven't noticed that there is,<BR>
> in fact, a huge discrepancy between his book and the comments he made at a<BR>
> later date.<BR>
<BR>
Quote the passages, then maybe I might agree with you. I'll bet that<BR>
absent data *not* given anywhere in the book, they'll be equivocal at best.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:47:38 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Disjointed thoughts on Democracies and Oligarchies<BR>
<BR>
Democratic governments do have a tendency to get carried away and do really<BR>
stupid things. The best example is probably the death of Socrates, where he<BR>
was ordered to commit suicide basically because he said the majority was<BR>
wrong in condemning an admiral for his decision to abandon sailors left in<BR>
the water after a battle (a storm and night were coming on). It is notable<BR>
that Athenian politics calmed down a lot after that, as they realised the<BR>
damage they were doing to Athens by purging and exiling those who were in<BR>
the minority. The idea of a 'loyal opposition' is an especially important<BR>
invention for democratic governments.<BR>
<BR>
I believe that to survive in the long term, oligarchies and dictatorships<BR>
need to resolve a method of avoiding the problem of 'I am the State'. I<BR>
think it is notable that long lasting dictatorships (eg Strasser in<BR>
Paraguay, Franco in Spain) were not accompanied by the spectacular<BR>
corruption of, say a Marcos. I would be interested if anyone had done<BR>
comparitive work on the level of corruption in Spain in the 50s was higher<BR>
or lower than in the US in the same period.<BR>
<BR>
In a democracy, corruption does not threaten the state, because the voters<BR>
can throw the corrupt bums out, and replace them with the clean ticket. Even<BR>
the corrupt know this - their corruption does not threaten the State itself.<BR>
<BR>
There is no such mechanism in an oligarchy or a dictatorship. The only cure<BR>
for entrenched corruption is a coup or a revolution - and coups and<BR>
revolutions can easily become a habit.<BR>
<BR>
Therefore, I would expect more aggressive anti-corruption measures in<BR>
long-term oligarchies and dictatorships, than in democracies with an<BR>
equivalent level of civil liberties. These anti-corruption measures would<BR>
probably include strong emphasis on honour, perhaps a contempt for personal<BR>
wealth (and by extention, on dispays of personal wealth like fashion - cf<BR>
the paintings by Rembrandt etc about the directors of the Dutch East India<BR>
company - the richest private men in the world are dressed only slightly<BR>
better than their butlers), and probably by use of secret police on the<BR>
servants of the State (I think Fredrick the Great set up a secret police<BR>
specifically for investigaing his Prussian bureaucrats for corruption).<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 15:37:13 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:29:05 +0100<BR>
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
> <BR>
> At 15:06 -0400 12/10/00, "Douglas E. Berry" <BR>
> <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com> wrote:<BR>
> >Indeed, Craig pushed _Consider Phlebus_ on me by saying it was just like a<BR>
> >Traveller party.  And it is.<BR>
<BR>
It's "Phlebas" with an 'a', just in case anyone is out there searching for<BR>
it.  Just reread it recently.  What a book!  Made me forget I had strep<BR>
thrat for many hours, which is high praise indeed.<BR>
<BR>
> Although I think that 'Against a Dark Background' is possibly even <BR>
> more like a Traveller party's actions?<BR>
<BR>
AaDB does have more of a Trav party 'feel' to it at times, but the<BR>
situations and motivations are a bit further from what could easily be<BR>
gamed out.  I also just like the book less, for whatever reason.  Phlebas,<BR>
on the other hand, has several scenes and subplots which could be dropped<BR>
right into a typical Trav game.<BR>
<BR>
_Use of Weapons_ might be a good source of gaming inspiration if I didn't<BR>
shudder every time I thought about it.  And I mean that in a good way.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:42:52 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
>From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: traveller@ient.com<BR>
>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
>Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:34:08 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
><BR>
>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
><snip><BR>
> >Also, on many worlds, locals will need a lot of training for many jobs<BR>
> >on in the starport. After all starports will tend to be higher TL than<BR>
> >the locals.<BR>
><BR>
>         For some jobs, certainly.  For other jobs, sometimes.  It will<BR>
>         depend on a number of factors.  I like the image of pack<BR>
>         animals being unloaded into a Freetrader.<BR>
<BR>
So do I. The image of people in dark cloaks on a desert world using camels <BR>
to carry the cargo into a starship is particularly enjoyable.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >And for locals who are employed there, one of the "perks" is likely to<BR>
> >be housing at the port. Including their family.<BR>
><BR>
>         I guess that we just have different ideas on starports.  I don't <BR>
>see<BR>
>         more than a very few non-military people living in a starport.<BR>
<BR>
I see class-A and B (even C) starports as having nearby or even attached <BR>
hotels. Of course, this is strictly my opinion.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:50:59 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (and Gifford's essay thereon)<BR>
<BR>
 <http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf> <BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>Right, I'm going to dig up this essay, just to agrue a point that you<BR>
>have made it clear you won't concede?<BR>
<BR>
>If it's ok for Gifford to quote the passages, it's ok for you to quote<BR>
>them too. <BR>
<BR>
Actually, since he provided a link (quoted above), it's not too hard to "dig up" the essay.  I read it; it's 11 pp of mostly quotes which, I must admit, make a pretty strong case not necessarily for the Federal Service being strictly military, but for rational people who read the book carefully but didn't know Heinlein's later commentary to assume that it is.  Read the essay, and PLEASE, let's not have people start quoting chapter and verse of the novel back and forth here on the list!<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
P.S.  I don't agree with Gifford's conclusion about how 'Expanded Universe' was written, and I can't guarantee his academic integrity (i.e. that he wasn't deliberately overlooking juicy quotes that supported the opposite position), but, from what I read, his point seems, if not valid, at least defensible. <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:55:40 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
>Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:48:47 PST<BR>
><BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> > The difference is that outside of the starport may be a religeous<BR>
> > dictatorship with law level 12 and no right to go to the bathroom<BR>
> > without a cleric's permission.  Does starport security have the right<BR>
> > to pursue someone out of the starport who killed a non-believer in<BR>
> > the starport?<BR>
><BR>
>Interesting question. Probably not.<BR>
<BR>
Probably YES!!! (IMO, anyway)<BR>
<BR>
The way I see it, the 3i has very little influence in the politics of the <BR>
worlds themselves. The 3i controls everything outside of the 100d limit. <BR>
Starports, however, count as beyond this limit for social purposes. Any <BR>
crime commited inside the starport is therefore considered an _Imperial_ <BR>
offense and the violater _can_ be pursued beyond the starport.<BR>
<BR>
Here's my argument: Worlds in the 3i are a lot like states are in the USA. <BR>
They control most of the civil governing responsibility. If someone commits <BR>
an offense in, say, the state of Indiana and then flees to the state of <BR>
Illinois, the police from Indiana may arrest that criminal in Illinois! <BR>
(forget Cannonball Run 2 - things have changed) The only restricting (unless <BR>
I'm mistaken) is that the state of Illinois must approve (which is almost <BR>
always the case).<BR>
<BR>
However, I see the 3i as possibly being a lot more controlling in matters <BR>
such as these and they may be able to arrest the criminal with or without <BR>
approval.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> > How will the Imperium find out if starport security, in fear for<BR>
> > their family's lives, secretly force sophonts back into the hands of<BR>
> > the local police?<BR>
><BR>
>Which is why locals employed by the starport would get housing for<BR>
>themselves and at least their immediate family.<BR>
><BR>
>Of course, it's *also* why locals aren't likely to be employed as<BR>
>security. At least on *that* sort of planet.<BR>
><BR>
> > I suppose that this would go under "Other" in character generation<BR>
> > (that's what I use to generate police officers).<BR>
><BR>
>Cute. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Why not? It's good for bounty hunters, who need many of the same skills.<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:48:16 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
The Gifford piece makes the assumption that, among other things, R&D and<BR>
labor battalions are direct military arms. This is definitely not always<BR>
true.<BR>
Further, he makes the assumption that most civil service jobs do not require<BR>
the wearing of a uniform. Mail carriers, police on all levels, firefighters,<BR>
park workers, medical workers among other would all offer objection to this.<BR>
As for logistics and support, despite the heavy loss of life they have<BR>
suffered in the past and their lack of uniforms, the merchant marine used to<BR>
be quite the federal service not to mention the SeaBees.<BR>
All in all, hardly proof of much of anything save a preconceived bias.<BR>
I personally never considered "federal service" to be specifically military<BR>
or non-military just combat or non-combat with distinction beyond that<BR>
irrelevant given the context.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:04:24 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
Eh.  Actually, leaving aside Mr. Seamans' abominable display of tact, the <BR>
essay<BR>
he refers to is both fairly comprehensive and quite conclusive.<BR>
<BR>
It's clear from a close reading of ST that "Federal service" is one-to-one<BR>
equivalent with "difficult, inconvenient, unpleasant and strenuous work for<BR>
the government, probably under some form of military or near-military<BR>
discipline."  Where I think Messrs. Gifford and Seamans<BR>
drop a zero is in<BR>
assuming that this is in turn one-to-one equivalent with *military* service.<BR>
<BR>
It's clear to me that all "Federal service" is at least paramilitary in <BR>
nature, and I'm<BR>
willing to stipulate that most of it is military, in the sense of bearing <BR>
arms and being<BR>
directly involved in the application of force.  After all, how many noncombat <BR>
jobs are<BR>
available which provide the requisite degree of strenuousness and <BR>
unpleasantness,<BR>
the requisite degree of personal discipline?<BR>
<BR>
On the other hand, no violence is done to Heinlein's<BR>
thesis if one assumes that<BR>
(in peacetime, anyway) some people earn their franchise by (say) assisting in<BR>
colonization or public-works projects on inhospitable worlds.  Even the <BR>
Federation<BR>
military probably spends a fair amount of time on such projects during <BR>
peacetime.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I'm not sure why it's important to insist that Heinlein's <BR>
statement was<BR>
plausible (which is the only real issue here -- it's arrogant in the extreme <BR>
to<BR>
claim that he was "wrong" about some aspect of his own creation).  The canard <BR>
that<BR>
Heinlein and/or the society he portrayed in ST was "fascist" can certainly be<BR>
refuted without stretching the text so far.<BR>
<BR>
- -----<BR>
Jon<BR>
JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
jon.zeigler@raba.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:01:30 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
>I think the point of 'Back to School' was not that Vonnegut didn't know<BR>
anything about 'Vonnegut', but rather those that literati who write about<BR>
what the author means in his work, are out of step with what the author<BR>
intended.<<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Ooh, sorry but I just have to "Me too" Tod on this.<BR>
I truly despised being asked to read a book and come up with an opinion only<BR>
to have some teacher tell me what a book was "really" about.<BR>
Unless you wrote it or have it signed and sealed from the author, I don't<BR>
think so.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:19:00 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: More Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
Samuel D. Weiss wrote:<BR>
> As for logistics and support, despite the heavy loss of life they have<BR>
>suffered in the past and their lack of uniforms, the merchant marine used to<BR>
>be quite the federal service not to mention the SeaBees.<BR>
<BR>
Not sure I'm quite understanding this.  Are you using the merchant marine as an example of non-military "federal service"?  If so, there's a quote in Gifford's essay which explicitly states that Rico doesn't consider them as being Federal Service, so you're not doing yourself much good there...<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:30:40 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
To help people *understand* a little better how the military works, might I<BR>
suggest you watch the movie "An Officer And A Gentleman". Get past the love<BR>
story plot and just watch the training and other *military* encounters. Not<BR>
a great Traveller connection and the fight with DI at the end was bogus but<BR>
the rest was pretty good. You will notice that through out the movie there<BR>
are NO officers visible! They are on the podium at end where the new<BR>
candidates are sworn in. After watching this and extracting out the military<BR>
parts, it might help you to make more sense of ST boot camp. The movie is an<BR>
older one and the video stores around here rent it for like a buck a night.<BR>
Have fun all........<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 10:47 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers/Heinein/Fascism OT<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 06:26 PM 10/12/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> One of the rules of being a soldier is learning how to break the rules.<BR>
> Take for example the scene where the soldier admits to hitting the Drill<BR>
> sergeant.  It was obvious to the officer that the sergeant had been<BR>
struck.<BR>
>  The rules stated that when confronted by such obvious evidence of a<BR>
> criminal attack, he was obligated to begin an investigation. (From the US<BR>
> Military's Uniform Code of Military Justice)  Instead, he was content to<BR>
> let the issue slide, and ask the Drill about in private.<BR>
><BR>
> The only thing that tripped the private up was his inability to shut up.<BR>
> Nobody made him enlist, and by enlisting, he agreed to follow the rules.<BR>
> One of those rules is that you do not hit superiors.<BR>
><BR>
> Later in the book, Rico and another Corporal beat the shit out of each<BR>
> other to settle a point of order.  Hardly by the book!  But it was what<BR>
was<BR>
> needed.<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3155<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 14 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3156<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: More Heinlein<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
RE: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
Re: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
Re: Disjointed thoughts on Democracies and Oligarchies<BR>
Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
Re: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
Re: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Beltstrike<BR>
Re:Tigress<BR>
RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR>
RE: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:41:29 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: More Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
>Not sure I'm quite understanding this.  Are you using the merchant marine<BR>
as an example of non-military "federal service"?  If so, there's a quote in<BR>
Gifford's essay which explicitly states that Rico doesn't consider them as<BR>
being Federal Service, so you're not doing yourself much good there...<BR>
<BR>
Trent<<BR>
<BR>
Not in the least.<BR>
Just because the Merchant Marine in ST is not a Federal Service doesn't mean<BR>
our isn't. In point of fact that self same quote directly refers to this.<BR>
I would also think the reference Carl makes to not wanting to be a "truck<BR>
driver" shows that some transportation services are indeed federal.<BR>
First thought: the "wet" merchant marine isn't federal but the "space"<BR>
merchant marine is.<BR>
Indeed, wasn't that hashed out in regards to Traveller and the 3I sometime<BR>
ago?<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 16:58:58 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:56:35 PST<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
<BR>
(I wonder if the capitalized third word in the subject was intended as a<BR>
pun?)<BR>
<BR>
> >       Then, relatively recently, I happened across James Gifford's excellent<BR>
> > essay "The Nature of 'Federal Service' in Robert A. Heinlein's Starship<BR>
> > Troopers" ( http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf ).<BR>
<BR>
I read this, and suggest everyone else go do so as well.  Though I still<BR>
contend that ST's society and ideals are not fascist, this paper makes an<BR>
ironclad case that, *based on the text of ST*, Federal Service is military<BR>
service, pure and simple.  The "19 out of 20 nomilitary" assertion which<BR>
Heinlein claimed 20 years later is repeated in the book several times does<BR>
not appear even once, and a preponderance of evidence contradicts this<BR>
statement.<BR>
<BR>
Nice to know I can still change my mind based on the evidence. :)  I, like<BR>
many others, seem to have been conflating Heinlein's later commentary on<BR>
the book with the text itself.<BR>
<BR>
> And you are are willing to not only call us liars, but claim that<BR>
> Heinlein was lying about his book? <BR>
<BR>
Lying or (far more plausibly) reporting an intention or private<BR>
understanding which for whatever reason did not make it into the text of<BR>
the book.  It is entirely within the realm of possibility that Heinlein,<BR>
writing in a passionate frenzy, neglected to actually type out some<BR>
"obvious" material, and then carried away the lingering belief that the<BR>
missing material was part of the book -- since it was, in his own mental<BR>
construct of the work.<BR>
<BR>
> So much for expecting rational discussion.<BR>
<BR>
This seemed quite rational to me.<BR>
<BR>
> >   It could have worked just as well with the "Grandmaster" himself. Heinlein,<BR>
> > it would appear, doesn't know much about Heinlein. To put a fine point on<BR>
> > it, his comment in "Expanded Universe" is incorrect.<BR>
> <BR>
> Sorry, but you are just as wrong as the instructor was. Claiming to<BR>
> "know" what an author intended, when the author himself says otherwise<BR>
> is the highest degree of arrogant presumption.<BR>
<BR>
We cannot know what the author intended.  If I say 'good morning' to you,<BR>
you cannot know what *I* intended.  Intent will always be a matter of<BR>
conjecture.  Even our own reconstructions of our past intents can get<BR>
pretty inaccurate.<BR>
<BR>
While speculating as to an author's intent is intriguing, and explicit<BR>
statements of intent from the author can be illuminating, there is still a<BR>
value in treating the text itself as primary (though I don't go as far as<BR>
certain crazy Frenchmen in this regard).  Arguments based on the text and<BR>
only the text have the advantage of being bounded; bringing in second-<BR>
guessing decades after the fact on the part of the author can hopelessly<BR>
confuse analysis of the work as such.<BR>
<BR>
Again, I recommend that all participants in this debate read the essay<BR>
linked above.  It's an eye-opener. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:05:57 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
<BR>
IMHO it is not a 'problem' - nor is it 'offending'.<BR>
<BR>
One of the big problems that I have with the US culture is it's instance<BR>
that everyone else must speak english. Other people do not. These are just<BR>
growing pains in the Digital Village. :)<BR>
<BR>
ObHe...ObTrav :)<BR>
<BR>
I use languages IMTU - in fact good commo officers (that speak 4 or more<BR>
languages) are highly sought after.<BR>
<BR>
Captian: "This is the SS Happy Jack. Prepaire to be boarded!"<BR>
<BR>
Other Ship: "Htsn!!d DFhfuus SinsDD??' Rikcns"<BR>
<BR>
Captian: "Hu?"<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>
Sent: Wednesday, October 11, 2000 2:20 PM<BR>
To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Kiri, every time I open one of your posts (In Outlook Express 5) it makes<BR>
> the machine jump over for the "Japanese" language add-on. I can't find<BR>
where<BR>
> to turn this off, is there a way you could change your postings?<BR>
<BR>
Here's the ofending section of the header from here last message:<BR>
<BR>
> MIME-Version: 1.0<BR>
> Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>
>         charset="iso-2022-jp"<BR>
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
It's the "charset" section that's the problem.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:39:05 -0400<BR>
From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
>We cannot know what the author intended.  If I say 'good morning' to you,<BR>
>you cannot know what *I* intended.  Intent will always be a matter of<BR>
>conjecture.  Even our own reconstructions of our past intents can get<BR>
>pretty inaccurate.<BR>
<BR>
>While speculating as to an author's intent is intriguing, and explicit<BR>
>statements of intent from the author can be illuminating, there is still a<BR>
>value in treating the text itself as primary (though I don't go as far as<BR>
>certain crazy Frenchmen in this regard).  Arguments based on the text and<BR>
>only the text have the advantage of being bounded; bringing in second-<BR>
>guessing decades after the fact on the part of the author can hopelessly<BR>
>confuse analysis of the work as such.<BR>
<BR>
Excellent points!  I say so especially because I just wrote a long essay saying more or less the same thing and decided not to send it (for which you can all thank me later).  If an author says he intended AB&C, but all the evidence of the text itself points to XY&Z, then XY&Z wins, because (in most cases, anyway) the text is going to be around a lot longer than the author.<BR>
<BR>
Did you by any chance take some Pomona College English classes when you were studying at HMC, Craig?  (If I'm confusing you with someone else, I apologize, but I remember SOMEONE recently mentioning being a Mudder, and ISTR it being you...)<BR>
<BR>
Trent<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:42:45 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
<BR>
on 10/13/00 5:05 PM, Tsykoduk at Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> IMHO it is not a 'problem' - nor is it 'offending'.<BR>
> <BR>
> One of the big problems that I have with the US culture is it's instance<BR>
> that everyone else must speak english. Other people do not. These are just<BR>
> growing pains in the Digital Village. :)<BR>
> <BR>
> ObHe...ObTrav :)<BR>
> <BR>
> I use languages IMTU - in fact good commo officers (that speak 4 or more<BR>
> languages) are highly sought after.<BR>
> <BR>
> Captian: "This is the SS Happy Jack. Prepaire to be boarded!"<BR>
> <BR>
> Other Ship: "Htsn!!d DFhfuus SinsDD??' Rikcns"<BR>
> <BR>
> Captian: "Hu?"<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Agreed,  I use other languages as well. But there will probably be a 'lingua<BR>
franca'.  Right now that happens to be English.  If you are a pilot landing<BR>
at just about any airport in the world, be prepared to receive instructions<BR>
in English.<BR>
<BR>
At one time it was Latin, then French.  Doubtless the 3I will have it's own<BR>
language of commerce and law, galanglic, esperanto, loglan or whatever.<BR>
Civilized folk will be expected to know it.<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 17:50:35 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> But I'll note that you obviously have the rather common bad habit of<BR>
> reading things into material that are not actually there. <BR>
> <BR>
> That is, you see A and because in your experience B is "always"<BR>
> present when A is, you *assume* that B is also present. And then<BR>
> proceed to reason from there.<BR>
> <BR>
> Thus, you *assume* that because the examples of federal service that<BR>
> aren't explicitly labeled as miltary *or* non-military *could* be<BR>
> miltary, they *must* be military. <BR>
> <BR>
> I see them, note that such jobs are usually *civilian*, and assign<BR>
> them to "probably non-military". <BR>
 <BR>
At this point, it seems clear that there is no way to win this <BR>
argument because both points of view are clearly equally valid.  I <BR>
fully agree, statements about the nature of most Federal Service <BR>
are nowhere made explicitly.  In fact, they not made at all.  At this <BR>
point, the exact nature of Federal Service is left purely to the <BR>
reader, so I and folks like Chris Seamans are correct in our <BR>
interpretation and you and the other who agree with you are correct <BR>
in yours.  <BR>
<BR>
In the absence of definitive statements *in the text* either <BR>
interpretation is equally possible depending purely upon the PoV of <BR>
the reader.  I remember reading this book when I was a fairly <BR>
apolitical 12 year old and coming away never questioning the idea <BR>
that Federal Service was largely or exclusively military, and that <BR>
non-combat jobs described were also military (helped likely by the <BR>
fact that at the time my dad ran an office in the Pentagon which <BR>
consisted purely of computer techs and bureaucrats, who were all <BR>
in the military).<BR>
<BR>
As for Heinlein's own interpretation, unless it was written within a <BR>
year or so of the book, I find it no more valid than anyone else's.  I <BR>
make my living as an author, and author's ideas change.  There is <BR>
many a work that I have written which I now interpret quite <BR>
differently that I did when I wrote it. <BR>
<BR>
Later in life his ideas may have been more set, but he did not <BR>
express those later ideas in the novel.  Instead, I feel that the only <BR>
truly valid source for information on the idea in that novel is the <BR>
novel itself (yes I'm a postmodernist).<BR>
<BR>
So, if we can agree that both interpretations are equally correct <BR>
perhaps we can star discussing Traveller again.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:11:08 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
<BR>
"Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >I think the point of 'Back to School' was not that Vonnegut didn't<BR>
> know anything about 'Vonnegut', but rather those that literati who <BR>
> write about what the author means in his work, are out of step <BR>
> with what the author intended.<<BR>
> <BR>
> <BR>
> Ooh, sorry but I just have to "Me too" Tod on this.<BR>
> I truly despised being asked to read a book and come up with an<BR>
> opinion only to have some teacher tell me what a book was <BR>
> "really" about. Unless you wrote it or have it signed and sealed <BR>
> from the author, I don't think so.<BR>
<BR>
Why assume the author knows either?  Given there there are <BR>
issues of unconscious motives and themes (which in many works <BR>
are clearly as important as the conscious ones) as well as the fact <BR>
that people and ideas change. If someone is a patriot, militarist, a <BR>
socialist, pacifist, racist, mysogynist or whatever then such <BR>
attitudes are often part of the book, regardless of whether the <BR>
author intended the book to have themes relating to patriotism <BR>
racism, or whatever. <BR>
<BR>
As I stated in an earlier message, if an author describes what a <BR>
book is about while writing it, or immediately after writing it, then <BR>
they are likely giving an accurate (if likely incomplete) description <BR>
of what the book is about.  OTOH, when an author speaks of a <BR>
work they wrote 5 years ago then I normally do not credit them with <BR>
much more knowledge than that which can be gained by a careful <BR>
and thoughtful reader.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:21:25 -0500<BR>
From: Richard Persky <richardp@mac.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Disjointed thoughts on Democracies and Oligarchies<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 14:47:38 +1000<BR>
> From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
> Subject: Disjointed thoughts on Democracies and Oligarchies<BR>
> <BR>
> Democratic governments do have a tendency to get carried away and do really<BR>
> stupid things. The best example is probably the death of Socrates, where he<BR>
> was ordered to commit suicide basically because he said the majority was<BR>
> wrong in condemning an admiral for his decision to abandon sailors left in<BR>
> the water after a battle (a storm and night were coming on).<BR>
<BR>
    Well, that and the fact that several students/associates of his had been<BR>
major players in the last two oligarchic coups, and another widely blamed<BR>
for Athens losing the Peloponnesian War.  Given the historical context, it's<BR>
not too surprising that the recently-restored democratic government was a<BR>
bit jumpy.<BR>
<BR>
    (And if you believe Plato's account, Socrates wasn't exactly ordered to<BR>
commit suicide -- "gleefully racing toward martyrdom" would be a better<BR>
description.  But, of course, Plato had his own purposes in writing.)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 21:49:31 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
<BR>
John Snead wrote,<BR>
>Why assume the author knows either?  Given there there are<BR>
issues of unconscious motives and themes (which in many works<BR>
are clearly as important as the conscious ones) as well as the fact<BR>
that people and ideas change. If someone is a patriot, militarist, a<BR>
socialist, pacifist, racist, mysogynist or whatever then such<BR>
attitudes are often part of the book, regardless of whether the<BR>
author intended the book to have themes relating to patriotism<BR>
racism, or whatever. <<BR>
<BR>
A bad author yes. Or one writing on some other theme and not caring about<BR>
such side issues. But not a good author doing a focused work.<BR>
Heinlein wrote about several government types in his books with characters<BR>
both supporting and opposing them in turn. It is ludicrous to think that<BR>
someone could come along later and impose some interpretation on the works<BR>
after the fact that insists Heinlein "really" meant  to put one of them<BR>
forward as the absolute for real and true best. Likewise the thought that<BR>
someone could competently psychoanalyze someone else solely on the basis of<BR>
reading one or more books. Profile perhaps, but when it comes to works of<BR>
fiction and not non-fiction "mandates" or what you, it simply strains the<BR>
bounds of reason. Even more when the analysis is based not on actual<BR>
psychology but on :higher" literary analysis which is even more likely to be<BR>
tainted by a political agenda than the writing itself.<BR>
But then we also went through this awhile back too as people wanted to<BR>
theorize on what Marc meant by including the Merchants and Others among the<BR>
services characters could be drafted into in Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:49:07 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> IMHO it is not a 'problem' - nor is it 'offending'.<BR>
>><BR>
>> One of the big problems that I have with the US culture is it's instance<BR>
that everyone else must speak english. Other people do not. These are just<BR>
growing pains in the Digital Village. :)<BR>
>><BR>
>> ObHe...ObTrav :)<BR>
>><BR>
>> I use languages IMTU - in fact good commo officers (that speak 4 or more<BR>
languages) are highly sought after.<BR>
>><BR>
>Agreed,  I use other languages as well. But there will probably be a<BR>
'lingua franca'.  Right now that happens to be English.  If you are a pilot<BR>
landing at just about any airport in the world, be prepared to receive<BR>
instructions in English.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Ah... but my posts ARE in English!  It'd be silly of me to send Japanese<BR>
posts to people who don't read Japanese.<BR>
<BR>
However, ASCII is a peculiarly AMERICAN code system; Europe and Asia use the<BR>
various iso codes (iso = ISO = International Standards Organization) that<BR>
were created so that computers in different countries could still talk to<BR>
each other.<BR>
<BR>
So who's cooperating with the lingua franca and who's not?   The worst<BR>
trouble I ever have reading posts is that they sometimes appear in a funny<BR>
font, and accented characters sometimes appear as kanji, but my machine<BR>
doesn't try to download anything funky or throw up completely.<BR>
<BR>
And America also stubbornly refuses to go metric.  We Americans have to be<BR>
different.   (I am an American citizen; the other half of me is Irish.  Or<BR>
didn't you notice that Morgan is not the name of any old samurai clans?<BR>
^_-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>At one time it was Latin, then French.  Doubtless the 3I will have it's own<BR>
language of commerce and law, galanglic, esperanto, loglan or whatever.<BR>
Civilized folk will be expected to know it.<BR>
><BR>
Well-travelled folk, anyway.  Well educated folk.<BR>
<BR>
Civilization is a subtler standard.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  ^_^<BR>
>Tod<BR>
><BR>
>--<BR>
>Tod L Glenn<BR>
>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
>http://www.solsec.org<BR>
>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
>http://travellerguns.com<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 18:56:30 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com <sneadj@mindspring.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
"Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>I think the point of 'Back to School' was not that Vonnegut didn't know<BR>
anything about 'Vonnegut', but rather those that literati who write about<BR>
what the author means in his work, are out of step with what the author<BR>
intended.<<BR>
>><BR>
> Ooh, sorry but I just have to "Me too" Tod on this. I truly despised being<BR>
asked to read a book and come up with an opinion only to have some teacher<BR>
tell me what a book was "really" about. Unless you wrote it or have it<BR>
signed and sealed  from the author, I don't think so.<BR>
<BR>
<<Why assume the author knows either?  Given there there are issues of<BR>
unconscious motives and themes (which in many works are clearly as important<BR>
as the conscious ones) as well as the fact that people and ideas change. If<BR>
someone is a patriot, militarist, a<BR>
socialist, pacifist, racist, mysogynist or whatever then such attitudes are<BR>
often part of the book, regardless of whether the author intended the book<BR>
to have themes relating to patriotism racism, or whatever. >><BR>
<BR>
Because they wrote it, that's why.  I am a writer myself.  I haven't been<BR>
professionally published yet but I've been in a fair number of zines.<BR>
Someone who had dated me briefly read my stuff and said "oh, you wrote that<BR>
because of your history with being adopted and yada yada yada" and I wanted<BR>
to wipe up the concrete with his sinuses.  How dare he psychoanalyze me like<BR>
that, assume that he knows what's in my subconscious mind?<BR>
<BR>
If I tell you that I wrote such and such for such and such reasons, please<BR>
believe me, and if you must believe that you're a telepath and know me<BR>
better than I myself do, please don't tell me about it.  I really hate<BR>
hearing that I wrote such and such because I was adopted, or am infertile,<BR>
or because I married a fill-in-the-blank and it didn't work out.  Other<BR>
people write other works on similar themes without having had those<BR>
experiences.  Specifically, men write about such characters without having<BR>
anyone think that it's tied to events in their reproductive lives; being<BR>
female does not mean I think with my uterus.  (Considering what a lemon of a<BR>
uterus I have, if I thought with it, I wouldn't be able to construct a<BR>
coherent sentence!)<BR>
<BR>
<<As I stated in an earlier message, if an author describes what a book is<BR>
about while writing it, or immediately after writing it, then they are<BR>
likely giving an accurate (if likely incomplete) description of what the<BR>
book is about.>><BR>
<BR>
Perhaps, but it's damned arrogant to assume you know what was going on in<BR>
their head BETTER than they do!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri   ^_^<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:20:31 -0700<BR>
From: Tod Glenn <webmaster@travellercentral.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
<BR>
on 10/13/00 6:49 PM, Kiri Aradia Morgan at tiamat@tsoft.com wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> However, ASCII is a peculiarly AMERICAN code system; Europe and Asia use the<BR>
> various iso codes (iso = ISO = International Standards Organization) that<BR>
> were created so that computers in different countries could still talk to<BR>
> each other.<BR>
> <BR>
> So who's cooperating with the lingua franca and who's not?   The worst<BR>
<BR>
Absolutely true.  But ASCII predates ISO.  Here we have a system that's been<BR>
in use for some 20 years.  Don't expect that to change overnight.  And the<BR>
metric system is by far to be preferred (except perhaps for temperature,<BR>
where celsius relates very poorly to human perception.  In Fahrenheit, 100<BR>
is hot and 0 is cold--a nice human range).<BR>
<BR>
Someday Europe will have a standard electrical plug...<BR>
<BR>
Tod<BR>
- -- <BR>
Tod L Glenn<BR>
webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>
http://www.solsec.org<BR>
http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>
http://travellerguns.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 19:49:58<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 03:37 PM 10/13/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>It's "Phlebas" with an 'a', just in case anyone is out there searching for<BR>
>it.  Just reread it recently.  What a book!  Made me forget I had strep<BR>
>thrat for many hours, which is high praise indeed.<BR>
<BR>
The day I can spell is the day Loren breathes a sigh of relief.<BR>
<BR>
Oddly, I'm rereading it also, and just finished the Damage game.. I'd love<BR>
to work that in to a campaign somehow.<BR>
<BR>
>_Use of Weapons_ might be a good source of gaming inspiration if I didn't<BR>
>shudder every time I thought about it.  And I mean that in a good way.<BR>
<BR>
Just picture Famile Spofulam meeting a Culture Mind...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 01:19:19 -0700<BR>
From: "fadetozero" <bempath@iserv.net><BR>
Subject: Beltstrike<BR>
<BR>
does anyone know if Beltstrike will be reprinted, or does anyone have a copy<BR>
available for sale?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:12:40 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Re:Tigress<BR>
<BR>
I present to the list a TNE version of the Tigress class dreadnought.<BR>
Designed using FFS1 it was quite a challenge. The surface area was<BR>
especially limiting, but by varying the proportions of the box at the rear<BR>
of the slab I was just able to fit it all together. As part of the design I<BR>
also did a TL15 heavy fighter which I will post shortly.<BR>
<BR>
Compared to the version found in Supplement 9 I had to reduce the maneuver<BR>
G's to 3 but have kept Jump-4 capacity.<BR>
<BR>
The repulsor bays are now tractor bays, and the particle accelerator and<BR>
fusion gun turrets have been replaced with additional lasers. The crew<BR>
requirement shot up enormously. I would hate to serve on one given the<BR>
amount of hot bunking required.<BR>
<BR>
I also believe I have discovered why only one squadron (of eight ships) was<BR>
assigned per sector. There is insufficient hull space for EM Masking.<BR>
Therefore on any reasonable sensor system a Tigress would be a very<BR>
prominent blip. in view of this I believe the Tigress was used primarily to<BR>
force systems into line. Its large missile capacity and three hundred heavy<BR>
fighters making it a potent threat to any planets well being.<BR>
<BR>
The Tigress can be found by following the links through the Banners Sector<BR>
and Alston League Order of Battle from www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR>
<BR>
Wonder what I'll do next (Anyone interested in an ED-12 from Fighting Ships<BR>
of the Shattered Imperium?<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:56:30 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
DaveShayne wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> Try reading again. The only charecter in the book opposed to the political<BR>
> order - the one charecter who joined specifically to get his franchise so<BR>
> he could vote to change the system - was also the only charecter to<BR>
> be kicked out (except for the rapist who got hanged.) Ostensibly the<BR>
> charecter got the boot for striking the drill sgt but it was only upon<BR>
> insisting on rights and priveledges that he was removed sans<BR>
> voting rights.<BR>
><BR>
> The system is geared toward keeping disenters away from the franchise.<BR>
<BR>
Nope, it's geared toward keeping _idiots_ away from the franchise.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone who tries to insist on rights and privileges whilst in the military,<BR>
after having taken an oath to follow orders, is a fool.<BR>
<BR>
He had two reasonable choices, either shut up and get through his public<BR>
service and _then_ speak up, or not join the public service, and attempt to<BR>
overthrow the system from the outside.<BR>
<BR>
I agree it would have been much better to have the character be more<BR>
intelligent, and make it through.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:04:05 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR>
<BR>
Alberti, Joe (TRANS) wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> I would play Dulinor as a personality totally committed to his cause.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but "me too!"<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Impatient with the conservative nobilty.  Dulinor would impress<BR>
> someone with his personal charisma, intelligence, and strong resolve.<BR>
> He was a supporter of Strephon from 1104 to 1112.  By 1112, he was<BR>
> becoming frustrated with what he perceived as a lack of support from him.<BR>
><BR>
That's how I've always percieved Dulinor as well.<BR>
<BR>
I've even considered that he was set up by true opponents of Strephon<BR>
(perhaps some of the people behind "IRIS", or Lucan's faction) to believe<BR>
that Strephon was acting directly against him.<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps someone proved to Dulinor, or Dulinor proved to himself, that the<BR>
person currently on the throne was a fake, possibly put in place by the very<BR>
nobles he was working against !<BR>
<BR>
But the proof was not one that would work for the masses.<BR>
<BR>
In such a case, the assasination could be seen as the only reasonable<BR>
solution Dulinor could come up with, kill the imposter, and take the throne<BR>
by right of conquest.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, once it was obvious that there was an imposter, he couldn't trust<BR>
anyone else claiming to be Strephon either.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:48:03 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
<BR>
VonRammen wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> Part of the problem with ST is that the narrator, Johnny, has the<BR>
> "aw-shucks-Beaver" naive voice that Heinlein gave all his teenage<BR>
> narrators at the time. Thus, it is very difficult to tell if the<BR>
'me-first'<BR>
> ultrapatriotism of the book is meant as a satire of 1950s American<BR>
> chauvinism or is meant to be taken *literally.*<BR>
<BR>
Hmm, there really is no "ultra-patriotism" in the book until the time it is<BR>
apparent that this is a war for survival, and then, well, who wouldn't be<BR>
ultrapatriotical to one's own species if the only alternative was being bug<BR>
food ?<BR>
<BR>
> It's hard to decide on internal evidence from the book itself,<BR>
> which justifies all the military actions, from the unprovoked preemptive<BR>
strike<BR>
> barely above the level of terrorism, at the beginning of the book,<BR>
<BR>
Er, are you referring here to the bugs destroying Buenos Aires ?<BR>
<BR>
> to the perhaps justified genocide directed at the Bugs later on.<BR>
<BR>
Definitely justified _if_ you accept Karl and the other psi's contention<BR>
that the bugs were intent on the same.<BR>
<BR>
In my mind, the thing that was not covered adequately was whether the psi's<BR>
were being straight with the "rest of us".<BR>
<BR>
Though I'd like to see a more realistic portrayal of such a situation, a la<BR>
Alien. I find it hard to believe that any attempted genocide would suceeed<BR>
given human beings with a desire to make a profit !<BR>
<BR>
Perhaps a sequel ? <grin><BR>
<BR>
> Again, it is hard to tell if this is meant as criticism of the<BR>
> 'my country/race/planet right or wrong' attitude, or the ultimate<BR>
> extension of Heinlein's "Don't tread on me" philosophy.<BR>
<BR>
It's neither, it's an extremely plausible depiction of the reaction of the<BR>
majority of the human race to a serious threat to the entire species.<BR>
<BR>
> The book explicitly states that the militaristic society that has<BR>
> evolved on Earth is the best solution to the problem of governing people.<BR>
And while I<BR>
> can agree with the sentiment that people who don't give something to their<BR>
> society/government shouldn't expect to get anything in return from it, I<BR>
> find the conclusion that military rule is the best solution troubling at<BR>
> best.<BR>
<BR>
Fred, "military rule" does not exist in Starship Troopers.<BR>
It is also not a "militaristic society".<BR>
<BR>
They have a _civilian_ democratically-elected government.<BR>
You are explicitly not allowed to run for office while in the military.<BR>
<BR>
It _does_ say their society is the best solution, but then this is said by a<BR>
member of the society, and the majority of dumb jocks, like the spokesman in<BR>
question, think their society is the best, regardless of how bad it actually<BR>
is.<BR>
<BR>
> Finally, while Heinlein presents the idea of public, corporal punishment<BR>
as<BR>
> a ready corrective to many social ills, he either ignores or glosses over<BR>
> the fact that such punishment has been banned in much of the Western world<BR>
> because it was for the greater part of human history a tool of<BR>
> oppression.<BR>
<BR>
Public corporal pumishment was only used in the book for people convicted of<BR>
military crimes.<BR>
<BR>
Aso, public corporal punishment has _not_ been banned because it was a "tool<BR>
of oppression" but because it is currently considered uncivilized, barbaric,<BR>
and inhumane.<BR>
<BR>
Of course for some weird reason most people don't seem to consider locking<BR>
people up in prisons where they can learn more criminal skills and be<BR>
victimized by other criminals uncivilised, barbaric and inhumane.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I think there should be more public punishment, though it does<BR>
not neccesarily have to involve physical damage to the criminal. The power<BR>
of public humiliation to control the actions of certain individuals should<BR>
not be underestimated.  Gang members and church officials, for instance, are<BR>
especially vulnerable to this form of control.<BR>
<BR>
> The real problem with Heinlein and ethical/political questions is<BR>
> that it is  very difficult to counter his arguments within the context of<BR>
his<BR>
> own books.<BR>
<BR>
As it's also difficult to counter his arguments _outside_ the confines of<BR>
his books, that should not be very surprising.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
> Likewise,<BR>
> Heinlein's own "stand up for yourself" philosophy is never treated<BR>
> critically in his books. Yeah, I agree in principle with Lazarus Long's "a<BR>
> man should be able to deliver a baby, shoot a gun, write a sonnet...etc et<BR>
> al" statement, but what if by no fault of your own you can't do these<BR>
> things? What if you have cerebral palsy and can't fight?<BR>
<BR>
Then you're out of luck unless someone wants to help you out.<BR>
Sorry, but that's just how it is in the real world, so don't expect RAH's<BR>
books to be any different.<BR>
<BR>
If you are unable to support yourself, or protect yourself, or whatever,<BR>
then you have to rely on some form of charity (from family, government,<BR>
whatever) no matter _what_ society you live in.<BR>
<BR>
Life is not fair. Get over it.<BR>
<BR>
> For that matter, I'm pretty sure Michelangelo would have been knocked<BR>
> down by just about any citizen of Rome, but does that meant that he<BR>
> should have practiced his fencing instead of carving "David"?<BR>
<BR>
Yes. What use is a statue if you're dead ?<BR>
<BR>
I have nothing against art, in fact I quite like it, but assuming that it<BR>
somehow takes precedence over survival is bloody stupid IMO.<BR>
<BR>
For _any_ artist you care to name, I would rather they lived and enjoyed<BR>
their life than created their artworks.<BR>
<BR>
> Heinlein's vision of an eternal frontier<BR>
> society, armed to the teeth (rhapsodized in "Time Enough For Love"), is<BR>
> something I find almost as terrifiying as Orwell's "1984."<BR>
<BR>
Why ?<BR>
<BR>
For that matter why do you find Orwell's 1984 terrifying ?<BR>
<BR>
To me, terrifying only applies to things that cannot be understood or fought<BR>
against.<BR>
<BR>
Thus, the world described in Pohl's "Demon in the Skull" is terrifiying to<BR>
it's inhabitants, because they, unlike the reader, have no idea what is<BR>
causing it.<BR>
<BR>
But the combination of marketing, amateur psychology, and bully-boy tactics<BR>
in 1984, is not terrifying, it is merely annoying.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3156<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 14 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3157<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
RE: Dark Angel<BR>
Re: Smade's World/Demeter<BR>
Re: Disjointed thoughts on Democracies and Oligarchies<BR>
Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
RE: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
RE: RE: Terrorists Attack US DD in Yemen<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re:Tigress<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
Re: Heinlein (and Gifford's essay thereon)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:21:02 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
Stephen Tempest wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> You missed out "join up, __undergo rigorous training (brainwashing)<BR>
> designed to crush any individuality and turn you into a person who<BR>
> follows orders, conforms to the thought patterns of the military, and<BR>
> supports the current organisation of the State__ and in two years run<BR>
> for office."<BR>
<BR>
That's just laughable.<BR>
<BR>
All I have to do to defeat your argument is tell you to talk to Doug Berry<BR>
on this list.<BR>
He has been through just such training.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone who would describe Doug as a conformist with no individuality would<BR>
probably not notice when a truck ran over them either.<BR>
<BR>
Of course he loves fascism. They have much cooler uniforms.<BR>
<BR>
> I'd hesitate to call Starship Troopers "fascism" simply because that<BR>
> word has a different meaning to everybody that uses it;  but there are<BR>
> definite points of similarity.  A militarised society;  strong<BR>
> distinctions drawn between the "worthy" people at the centre of power<BR>
> and the "unworthy" people who are deprived of rights;<BR>
<BR>
The _only_ 'rights' that non-citizens in "Starship Troopers" are deprived of<BR>
are the 'right' to vote, and the 'right' to hold public office.<BR>
<BR>
> selfless service to the State taught as the highest good;<BR>
<BR>
Nope, in fact, selfess service to the state is actively discouraged.<BR>
It means the state has to find you something to do.<BR>
<BR>
> an emphasis on death and risk rather than service to your fellows<BR>
> as being that which ennobles us.<BR>
<BR>
Not there as part of the society. That was part of the culture of the<BR>
Roughnecks, and other parts of the Mobile Infantry, but the MI were only a<BR>
small part of the overall society.<BR>
<BR>
> (IIRC, the only way to get the franchise was through service in a job<BR>
> where you actively risked your life - so a medical _subject_ would<BR>
> qualify but a medical _researcher_ wouldn't).<BR>
<BR>
Nope, you could also get the franchise acting as a janitor or cook, or<BR>
watching a meterorogical station.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 18:23:28 -0700<BR>
From: "Tsykoduk" <Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Dark Angel<BR>
<BR>
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR>
<BR>
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	charset="us-ascii"<BR>
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<BR>
IMHO it is only full of cliches to to those of us who follow cyberpunk. All<BR>
the mundanes out there might not notice... :)<BR>
<BR>
  -----Original Message-----<BR>
<BR>
  Regrettably I think this series is about 5 years to late.<BR>
  The story is full of dated cyperpunk cliches.<BR>
  But it does intrigues me enough to keep me watching in hopes that as the<BR>
characters are developed something magical might happen.<BR>
<BR>
  so I am hooked as well<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Tim Reynolds<BR>
tim@premier.net<BR>
225-334-5063<BR>
www.premier.net/~tim<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through<BR>
the air, invisible<BR>
And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.<BR>
In that case, the prize went to the best dancer<BR>
Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C03479.848AF400<BR>
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	charset="us-ascii"<BR>
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</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><HEAD><BR>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =<BR>
charset=3Dus-ascii"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3207.2500" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD><BR>
<BR>
<DIV></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=12 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><SPAN =<BR>
class=3D962292201-13102000>IMHO=20<BR>
it is only full of cliches to to those of us who follow cyberpunk. All =<BR>
the=20<BR>
mundanes out there might not notice... :)</SPAN></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></DIV><BR>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>
  <DIV align=3Dleft class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=12 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">-----Original =<BR>
Message-----<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<?/color><?bigger>Regrettably<?smaller> I =think=20  this series is about 5 years to late. <BR>
The story is full of dated =cyperpunk=20  cliches. <BR>
But it does intrigues me enough to keep me watching in = hopes that=20   as the characters are developed something magical might =happen.<BR>
<BR>
so I am=20  hooked as well<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</DIV>Tim Reynolds<BR>
tim@premier.net=20<BR>
225-334-5063<BR>
www.premier.net/~tim<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
Knowledge, information, power, words...Flying through<BR>
the air, invisible<BR>
And suddenly the world was tap dancing on quicksand.<BR>
In that case, the prize went to the best dancer<BR>
Terry Pratchett: The Fifth Elephant=20<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0028_01C03479.848AF400--<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:05:24 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Smade's World/Demeter<BR>
<BR>
> From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Smade's World/Demeter<BR>
> <BR>
> > To make this worth people's time:<BR>
> >  I finally got hold of Rim of Fire yesterday.  What was the story with<BR>
> >  Smades' Planet/Demeter again?<BR>
> <BR>
> Do you mean "What was the original data on Smades' Planet?"<BR>
> <BR>
> or<BR>
> <BR>
> "Why was Smade's Planet changed to Demeter in Rim of Fire?"<BR>
> <BR>
> LKW<BR>
<BR>
The latter - but Jon Zeigler has already explained it.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:56:36 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Disjointed thoughts on Democracies and Oligarchies<BR>
<BR>
> From: Ian Whitchurch<BR>
> I believe that to survive in the long term, oligarchies and dictatorships<BR>
> need to resolve a method of avoiding the problem of 'I am the State'. I<BR>
> think it is notable that long lasting dictatorships (eg Strasser in<BR>
> Paraguay, Franco in Spain) were not accompanied by the spectacular<BR>
> corruption of, say a Marcos. <BR>
<BR>
Suharto?  Mobutu?  The PRI in Mexico?  All long lasting and very corrupt.<BR>
<BR>
> Therefore, I would expect more aggressive anti-corruption measures in<BR>
> long-term oligarchies and dictatorships, than in democracies with an<BR>
> equivalent level of civil liberties. These anti-corruption measures would<BR>
> probably include strong emphasis on honour, perhaps a contempt for<BR>
personal<BR>
> wealth (and by extention, on dispays of personal wealth like fashion - cf<BR>
> the paintings by Rembrandt etc about the directors of the Dutch East<BR>
India<BR>
> company - the richest private men in the world are dressed only slightly<BR>
> better than their butlers), and probably by use of secret police on the<BR>
> servants of the State (I think Fredrick the Great set up a secret police<BR>
> specifically for investigaing his Prussian bureaucrats for corruption).<BR>
<BR>
I like the Dutch East India Company image - very megacorporate.  Of course<BR>
the directors would own paintings by Rembrandt!  (OK, not so valuable<BR>
then...)<BR>
<BR>
It's useful to remember that oligarchies have been a lot more common than<BR>
democracies, to a degree where the word republic more or less implied<BR>
oligarchy.  The concept of letting non-property owners vote was an<BR>
extremely radical one.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 16:10:37 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Troopers and other threads.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Hmm.  The change knocks out the J4 connection between the Imperium and<BR>
Kukulcan - how inconvenient for smugglers...<BR>
<BR>
The way you handled the Cymbeline chip issue is quite interesting.  It<BR>
might be worth exploring a little.  At least, I might add a company called<BR>
something like "Cymbeline Electronics" to my TU.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
> From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
> In a message dated 10/12/00 8:47:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
> alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR>
> <BR>
> > To make this worth people's time:<BR>
> >  I finally got hold of Rim of Fire yesterday.  What was the story with<BR>
> >  Smades' Planet/Demeter again?<BR>
> <BR>
> The story is that what John Harshman and the GDW staff apparently<BR>
> thought was a harmless "tribute" to Jack Vance, Steve Jackson<BR>
> believed to be across the border into plagiarism.<BR>
> <BR>
> The world writeup was done so that folks who felt attached to the<BR>
> "Smade's Planet" idea could still use it (i.e. the Smades are still<BR>
> around, they're just hiding from the Solomani).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:55:49 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
<BR>
sneadj@mindspring.com wrote :<BR>
> As I stated in an earlier message, if an author describes what a<BR>
> book is about while writing it, or immediately after writing it, then<BR>
> they are likely giving an accurate (if likely incomplete) description<BR>
> of what the book is about.  OTOH, when an author speaks of a<BR>
> work they wrote 5 years ago then I normally do not credit them with<BR>
> much more knowledge than that which can be gained by a careful<BR>
> and thoughtful reader.<BR>
<BR>
Authors often have access to a vast amount of research and other notes on<BR>
their previous work that a "careful and thoughtful reader" does not have<BR>
access to. Not to mention that anyone who is not a hack has lived with the<BR>
work in their head for several years, and it's been an important part of<BR>
their lives.<BR>
<BR>
While I wouldn't neccessarily believe everything an author says about a<BR>
work, and it's quite possible for an author to change their opinions, in the<BR>
absence of evidence to the contrary, it is foolish to believe that someone<BR>
who is not the author or who has not worked on the project, can have more<BR>
knowledge than one who hasn't.<BR>
<BR>
Such an assumption is like employing people who have no practical experience<BR>
in a field, over experts who have worked in the field for five or more<BR>
years, because as "careful and thoughtful reader"s they must know as much<BR>
about it.<BR>
<BR>
While this sort of thing would be very popular with university graduates,<BR>
you'll find little support for it amongst managers.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:13:58 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
<BR>
"Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com> wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> John Snead wrote,<BR>
> >Why assume the author knows either?  Given there there are<BR>
> issues of unconscious motives and themes (which in many works<BR>
> are clearly as important as the conscious ones) as well as the fact<BR>
> that people and ideas change. If someone is a patriot, militarist, a<BR>
> socialist, pacifist, racist, mysogynist or whatever then such<BR>
> attitudes are often part of the book, regardless of whether the author<BR>
> intended the book to have themes relating to patriotism racism, or<BR>
> whatever. <<BR>
> <BR>
> A bad author yes. Or one writing on some other theme and not caring<BR>
> about such side issues. But not a good author doing a focused work.<BR>
> Heinlein wrote about several government types in his books with<BR>
> characters both supporting and opposing them in turn. It is ludicrous<BR>
> to think that someone could come along later and impose some<BR>
> interpretation on the works after the fact that insists Heinlein<BR>
> "really" meant  to put one of them forward as the absolute for real<BR>
> and true best. <BR>
<BR>
Every author has unconscious assumptions and subtexts. If <BR>
nothing else, we are all products of our cultures, and Heinlein's <BR>
culture when he wrote that book was somewhat different than ours <BR>
is now.  Bad authors usually have more, but they are found in every <BR>
work of fiction ever written.  <BR>
<BR>
Also, you completely neglected the 2nd half of my argument.  I <BR>
don't know when he started making statements about what he <BR>
"really" meant to say in ST, but if as, I suspect, it was a number of <BR>
years after the novel was written, then rethinking and changing <BR>
attitudes could have a great deal to do with what he said about the <BR>
novel vs what he actually wrote in it.<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:26:50 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
At 19:30 -0400 13/10/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>There won't be such exctremes onboard ship except in emergencies. And<BR>
>during that sort of emergency, odds are that anything the cans do would<BR>
>be pretty minor by comparison.<BR>
<BR>
Agreed.<BR>
<BR>
However, AFAIK most aerosols are only pressure tested to whatever a <BR>
temperature of 60C creates. This is viewed as the highest likely shop <BR>
window temperature with direct sun load as well. Testing is done in a <BR>
waterbath and on 100% of units...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:30:45 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
At 19:30 -0400 13/10/00, Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:<BR>
>AaDB does have more of a Trav party 'feel' to it at times, but the<BR>
>situations and motivations are a bit further from what could easily be<BR>
>gamed out.  I also just like the book less, for whatever reason.  Phlebas,<BR>
>on the other hand, has several scenes and subplots which could be dropped<BR>
>right into a typical Trav game.<BR>
<BR>
True.<BR>
<BR>
>_Use of Weapons_ might be a good source of gaming inspiration if I didn't<BR>
>shudder every time I thought about it.  And I mean that in a good way.<BR>
<BR>
UoW is one of the few books that I got to the end of and thought <BR>
'what the %^&**&?' I didn't see it coming at all. There were hints <BR>
there when I re-read it immediately though.<BR>
<BR>
The other one I really like is _Excession_, which could also be <BR>
dropped into a Traveller game.<BR>
<BR>
Didn't we have this conversation in 97 or so? :-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:23:18 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
At 19:30 -0400 13/10/00, "Tod Glenn" <webmaster@travellercentral.com> wrote:<BR>
>One more than one occassion, I have heard reviews make strange<BR>
>pronouncements about an author's work, only to have the author say "No.<BR>
>That's not what I meant".  I am generally of the opinion that we should<BR>
>accept the authors own explaination of his work over that of the reviewer.<BR>
<BR>
Absolutely.<BR>
<BR>
When I was at university I went to a lecture given by a somewhat <BR>
feminist environmentalist Christian author (/her own description/). <BR>
In the talk was re-interpreting a lot of passages in St Paul's <BR>
letters to support her arguments, saying 'what he meant was this'. <BR>
Possibly naively, I asked 'how can you say that he means this when he <BR>
was writing two thousand years ago and this concept wasn't even <BR>
around until the latter part of this century'. Her reply was that <BR>
under modern literary theory it is usual to draw such assumptions. <BR>
She never responded to the question about how she could state that <BR>
'his views were' on a subject that he wouldn't know about.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not arguing that there isn't a validity in re-interpreting a text <BR>
in the light of current views/thoughts, but there is something <BR>
fundamentally wrong in stating that this is what the author <BR>
believes/d.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:03:56 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: RE: Terrorists Attack US DD in Yemen<BR>
<BR>
At 21:21 +0000 13/10/00, Minion@hell-labs.com wrote:<BR>
> > Well, it looks like they bombed the UK embassy today as well. I<BR>
> > suppose that's an act of war too?!<BR>
>Well yes, but that counts as terrorism because it's not a military target.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I suppose it depends on how the UK government wants to take it <BR>
really. It is an attack on UK soil ;-)<BR>
<BR>
IMO The difference between terrorism and an act of war is the <BR>
willingness of both sides to take it as such. Forex, the UK <BR>
government treated the ongoing actions of the IRA as terrorism (and <BR>
dealt with it under civil/criminal law) even though the IRA claimed <BR>
that a state of war existed. If a state of war existed then the UK <BR>
government's response would probably have been a lot nastier and a <BR>
lot more effective...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:40:28 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
At 1:18 -0400 14/10/00, Craig Berry wrote:<BR>
> > >       Then, relatively recently, I happened across James <BR>
>Gifford's excellent<BR>
> > > essay "The Nature of 'Federal Service' in Robert A. Heinlein's Starship<BR>
> > > Troopers" ( http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf ).<BR>
><BR>
>I read this, and suggest everyone else go do so as well.  Though I still<BR>
>contend that ST's society and ideals are not fascist, this paper makes an<BR>
>ironclad case that, *based on the text of ST*, Federal Service is military<BR>
>service, pure and simple.  The "19 out of 20 nomilitary" assertion which<BR>
>Heinlein claimed 20 years later is repeated in the book several times does<BR>
>not appear even once, and a preponderance of evidence contradicts this<BR>
>statement.<BR>
<BR>
I mentioned it earlier, but Chris Weuve's page here does a good job <BR>
at bringing a lot of this together.<BR>
<BR>
http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:43:51 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re:Tigress<BR>
<BR>
At 1:18 -0400 14/10/00, "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com> wrote:<BR>
>I present to the list a TNE version of the Tigress class dreadnought.<BR>
>Designed using FFS1 it was quite a challenge. The surface area was<BR>
>especially limiting, but by varying the proportions of the box at the rear<BR>
>of the slab I was just able to fit it all together. As part of the design I<BR>
>also did a TL15 heavy fighter which I will post shortly.<BR>
<BR>
The HEPLAR exhaust from a Tigress scares me...<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:13:42 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 14:56:35 PST<BR>
>> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
><BR>
> (I wonder if the capitalized third word in the subject was intended as a<BR>
> pun?)<BR>
><BR>
>> >       Then, relatively recently, I happened across James Gifford's <BR>
> excellent<BR>
>> > essay "The Nature of 'Federal Service' in Robert A. Heinlein's Starship<BR>
>> > Troopers" ( http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf ).<BR>
><BR>
> I read this, and suggest everyone else go do so as well.  Though I still<BR>
> contend that ST's society and ideals are not fascist, this paper makes an<BR>
> ironclad case that, *based on the text of ST*, Federal Service is military<BR>
> service, pure and simple.  The "19 out of 20 nomilitary" assertion which<BR>
> Heinlein claimed 20 years later is repeated in the book several times does<BR>
> not appear even once, and a preponderance of evidence contradicts this<BR>
> statement.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I want to go over it again when I have a copy of ST in my hands.<BR>
There's at least one quote that I'm *certain* he chopped off too soon. <BR>
<BR>
>> So much for expecting rational discussion.<BR>
><BR>
> This seemed quite rational to me.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, but any time anyone claims to know an authors intent better than<BR>
the author, or supports someone doing so, I consider that irrational.<BR>
<BR>
>> >   It could have worked just as well with the "Grandmaster" himself. <BR>
> Heinlein,<BR>
>> > it would appear, doesn't know much about Heinlein. To put a fine point on<BR>
>> > it, his comment in "Expanded Universe" is incorrect.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Sorry, but you are just as wrong as the instructor was. Claiming to<BR>
>> "know" what an author intended, when the author himself says otherwise<BR>
>> is the highest degree of arrogant presumption.<BR>
><BR>
> We cannot know what the author intended.  If I say 'good morning' to you,<BR>
> you cannot know what *I* intended.  Intent will always be a matter of<BR>
> conjecture.  Even our own reconstructions of our past intents can get<BR>
> pretty inaccurate.<BR>
<BR>
> While speculating as to an author's intent is intriguing, and explicit<BR>
> statements of intent from the author can be illuminating, there is still a<BR>
> value in treating the text itself as primary (though I don't go as far as<BR>
> certain crazy Frenchmen in this regard).  Arguments based on the text and<BR>
> only the text have the advantage of being bounded; bringing in second-<BR>
> guessing decades after the fact on the part of the author can hopelessly<BR>
> confuse analysis of the work as such.<BR>
<BR>
Alas, I don't have any handy, but I'm pretty sure that statements by<BR>
Heinlein *much* closer to the publication of the work make the same<BR>
points he made in the essay in Expanded Universe.<BR>
<BR>
Possibly one of the GOH speeches reprinted in Grumbles From the Grave?<BR>
<BR>
> Again, I recommend that all participants in this debate read the essay<BR>
> linked above.  It's an eye-opener. <BR>
<BR>
Again, I think he chopped at least a couple quotes a bit early,<BR>
removing stuff I recall as disagreeing with his point.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:25:43 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>>What happens when local police are after a "most wanted" type<BR>
>>>who gets to the starport?  The security forces may be tempted to quietly<BR>
>>>hand the criminal over, or they may be coerced.<BR>
<BR>
>>As for coercion, trying that on the starport is a *real* bad move. They<BR>
>>can express their displeasure in a lot of ways. From strip searches of<BR>
>>locals entering and leaving, to refusing to allow certain imports or<BR>
>>exports. <BR>
><BR>
>         Who said anything about coercion on the starport?  It's just that<BR>
>         a few of the citizens who work there have been found to be guilty of<BR>
>         disloyalty to the state.  Even if the senior administrators decide to<BR>
>         spend the rest of their lives in a reeducation camp for causing<BR>
>         trouble, there is no guarentee that the local rulers will mind if a <BR>
> few<BR>
>         of their subjects are inconvenienced by the starport authority.  If<BR>
>         the authority insists on seriously disrupting trade, then the local<BR>
>         government will be the least of its problems.<BR>
<BR>
If the situation doesn't fall under "quietly hand him over" then you<BR>
*are* coercing "the starport".<BR>
<BR>
>>>The alternative that I am considering is to have starports administered by<BR>
>>>the Imperium at the subsector level.  Security would be provided by<BR>
>>>subsector marines, generally from off-planet.  This makes a lot of sense,<BR>
>>>but would require a marine base at every starport.  Just how many marines<BR>
>>>should be available for a starport A on a Pop 6 world?  Starport D?  Pop 2?<BR>
>>I think you made a basic mistake. The locals aren't going to be used<BR>
>>for security. It's too easy to bring in folks from offworld, and *much*<BR>
>>safer. Just consider any of *far* too many terrorist incidents in the<BR>
>>last 50 years.<BR>
><BR>
>         I presume that you are refering to my original system, not the one<BR>
>         suggested above.  Terrorism has not been a problem IMTU, so that<BR>
>         is not a concern.  Even if security is brought in from off-world, <BR>
> they<BR>
>         still have to live on-world (I do not envisage people living in the<BR>
>         starport).  I do agree that security from off-world would be better,<BR>
>         but I still see problems.<BR>
<BR>
The port is a lot more than the landing pads and warehouses. There will<BR>
be hotels, bars and other entertainment, as well as (in many if not<BR>
most cases) housing for port personnel. <BR>
<BR>
Keep in mind that *because* of extrality, things are much simpler for<BR>
*both* the port and the locals if transients stay on the port mosdt of<BR>
the time, and ditto for offworld personnel.<BR>
<BR>
Not out of intolerance, but simply because it means fewer checkpoints<BR>
and less traffic thru the ones that exist.<BR>
<BR>
On almost any world, there will be *something* worth smuggling in or<BR>
out. As well as local customs that might trip up offworlders. <BR>
<BR>
>>Also, on many worlds, locals will need a lot of training for many jobs<BR>
>>on in the starport. After all starports will tend to be higher TL than<BR>
>>the locals.<BR>
><BR>
>         For some jobs, certainly.  For other jobs, sometimes.  It will<BR>
>         depend on a number of factors.  I like the image of pack<BR>
>         animals being unloaded into a Freetrader.<BR>
><BR>
>>And for locals who are employed there, one of the "perks" is likely to<BR>
>>be housing at the port. Including their family. <BR>
><BR>
>         I guess that we just have different ideas on starports.  I don't see<BR>
>         more than a very few non-military people living in a starport.<BR>
<BR>
I think you are viewing a starport as being like an airport. It makes<BR>
more sense to think of it as a small town with port facilities. <BR>
<BR>
I tend to think of the way ports were described in a lot of Andre<BR>
Norton's SF. <BR>
<BR>
Also, consider that housing is likely to be part of the port *because*<BR>
of the extrality. It's the only way to make sure that the local laws<BR>
can't touch offworld personnel without permission from the folks<BR>
running the port.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:40:18 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>         For some jobs, certainly.  For other jobs, sometimes.  It will<BR>
>>         depend on a number of factors.  I like the image of pack<BR>
>>         animals being unloaded into a Freetrader.<BR>
><BR>
> So do I. The image of people in dark cloaks on a desert world using camels <BR>
> to carry the cargo into a starship is particularly enjoyable.<BR>
<BR>
Not gonna happen. <BR>
<BR>
*TO* the ship, ok. But not into it. <BR>
<BR>
The cargo needs to be packed into shipping containers, and the<BR>
loadmaster needs to fiogure out where best to put each container based<BR>
on its mass (and on where the center of mass of the container is).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:45:12 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> However, ASCII is a peculiarly AMERICAN code system; Europe and Asia use the<BR>
> various iso codes (iso = ISO = International Standards Organization) that<BR>
> were created so that computers in different countries could still talk to<BR>
> each other.<BR>
<BR>
And guess what. Many of the ISO sets (darn near all the ones I've<BR>
managed to track down) either have ASCII as the 32-126 range, or have<BR>
ASCII with a very limited set of substitions (#$@[\]^`{|}~) to include<BR>
"national characters".<BR>
<BR>
Even the last official Cryillic character set (KOI-8) is set up that<BR>
way. <BR>
<BR>
I don't have info on the 8-bit codes used for some Japenese character<BR>
sets. Though one of my old 8-bit systems claims to support a JIS<BR>
character set.<BR>
<BR>
The 16-bit sets are obviously non-ASCII. And (hopefully) Unicode will<BR>
put an end to the silliness.<BR>
<BR>
> So who's cooperating with the lingua franca and who's not?   The worst<BR>
> trouble I ever have reading posts is that they sometimes appear in a funny<BR>
> font, and accented characters sometimes appear as kanji, but my machine<BR>
> doesn't try to download anything funky or throw up completely.<BR>
<BR>
Neither does mine. But then again, I'[m doing this in a DOS session on<BR>
an OS/2 box. :-)<BR>
<BR>
> Civilization is a subtler standard.<BR>
<BR>
Yes, we're all barbarians... :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:55:18 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (and Gifford's essay thereon)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>  <http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf> <BR>
><BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>>Right, I'm going to dig up this essay, just to agrue a point that you<BR>
>>have made it clear you won't concede?<BR>
><BR>
>>If it's ok for Gifford to quote the passages, it's ok for you to quote<BR>
>>them too. <BR>
><BR>
> Actually, since he provided a link (quoted above), it's not too hard to "dig <BR>
> up" the essay.<BR>
<BR>
By the time I wrote that line, I'd already deleted the reference to the<BR>
Gifford article, and hadn't paid attention to the link. Later, seeing<BR>
it quoted in another message, I did check it out. Which involved:<BR>
<BR>
1. I had to switch to the 486 that the main modem is on.<BR>
2. shell out of the mailer<BR>
3. login to my shell account on qiclab<BR>
4. start Lynx<BR>
5. copy the URL by hand<BR>
6. download the PDF to my home directory on qiclab<BR>
7. Download it from qiclab to the 486<BR>
8. delete it from my home directory on qiclab<BR>
9. log off qiclab<BR>
10. restart the mailer on the 486<BR>
11. switch back to this box<BR>
12. switch from the DOS session to the OS/2 desktop<BR>
13. discover that I couldn't open the PDF because the Acrobat reader<BR>
    was unhappy about something<BR>
14. shut down a couple of programs to get enough free memory<BR>
    (out of 128 meg!) to run Acrobat Reader.<BR>
<BR>
*Then* I could read it...<BR>
<BR>
What was that about the web making things easy?<BR>
<BR>
> P.S.  I don't agree with Gifford's conclusion about how 'Expanded Universe' <BR>
> was written, and I can't guarantee his academic integrity (i.e. that he <BR>
> wasn't deliberately overlooking juicy quotes that supported the opposite <BR>
> position), but, from what I read, his point seems, if not valid, at least<BR>
> defensible. <BR>
<BR>
Well, as I've noted in a couple of messages, he chopped off one quote<BR>
just before something that would tend to counter his point. But until I<BR>
have a copy of ST sitting in front of my, I can't provide the exact<BR>
quote required.<BR>
<BR>
Also, he is *assuming* that "cvilian" as used by a member of the<BR>
military, excludes non-military members of the Federal Service...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3157<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 14 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3158<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>
RE: Emergency<BR>
Digital Village<BR>
Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
Zombies in Traveller<BR>
Starship Operators Manual<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR>
Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 06:42:21 -0400<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
	If you're reading this in the digest, and have no interest in the subject<BR>
line, please scroll down to the next message. I've bundled all my replies<BR>
into one post in what might be a misguided attempt to make this less<BR>
inconvenient for others.<BR>
<BR>
=-=-=-=-=-=-=<BR>
<BR>
	Wow, I expected that my post would generate a little bit of flak, as that's<BR>
usually the way things go when an author who is dear to so many gets<BR>
criticized. I am surprised by some of the charges which have been leveled at<BR>
me. While I knew that my post wouldn't win me any popularity contests, I<BR>
thought that I approached the subject in a reasonable and rational manner,<BR>
and that others would respond in kind.<BR>
<BR>
	I'd like to start by pointing out that a few people have read things into<BR>
my post which were simply not there. To put my post back into its proper<BR>
context: Leonard claimed, more than once in the last few days, that Federal<BR>
Service encompassed much more than military service, that it covers what we<BR>
would refer to in contemporary times as civil service jobs. He went so far<BR>
as to say that this is explicitly spelled out in the text of the novel.<BR>
Indeed, the other day he accused one reader of not carefully reading the<BR>
book, and he advised that reader to go back and read it without a political<BR>
agenda. Over the last few days, he has given a number of examples of other<BR>
sorts of jobs which would fall under the heading of Federal Service in<BR>
"Starship Troopers"<BR>
<BR>
	I challenged him by pointing out that the "general civil service"<BR>
understanding of Federal Service is not supported by the text, and that the<BR>
bulk of the evidence supports the understanding which many people do come<BR>
away with: Federal Service is equivalent to military service. As support, I<BR>
referenced an essay by James Gifford on the nature of public service in<BR>
Heinlein's Federation. It addresses this issue much more eloquently, and in<BR>
greater depth, than I could. I hoped to keep bandwidth down by providing<BR>
that link and then briefly outlining my position.<BR>
<BR>
	That idea did seem to work, so here I am again.<BR>
<BR>
	The closest passage to Leonard's position which I can find in the novel is<BR>
when the recruiting sergeant mentions that the Federation had to "think up"<BR>
all kinds of "dirty, nasty and dangerous jobs" for those who couldn't cut it<BR>
in the military. He is quite clear on this in his usage of the term<BR>
'military' and his description of the alternatives.<BR>
<BR>
	The obvious question is: Why would the Federation need to come up with such<BR>
jobs if, in fact, they subscribed to a general notion of civil service as<BR>
Leonard has claimed? After all, there are civil service jobs today. It is<BR>
painfully clear from the recruiting officer's statement that those who could<BR>
not hack military work would be given an "unreasonable facsimile thereof",<BR>
apparently referring to the danger level inherent in the job. If the<BR>
category of Federal Service is much broader than military service why does<BR>
the recruiting sergeant say what he says? This seems awfully peculiar, given<BR>
the robust and far-reaching notions of Federal Service which Leonard said<BR>
was explicitly stated in the book.<BR>
<BR>
	Some may quibble with my reading "think up" as "invent", but it's important<BR>
to note that later on Juan expresses relief that he avoided "make-work".<BR>
Make-work is a term which means busy work, or work invented primarily to<BR>
keep folks busy. It is extremely unlikely that various mundane civil service<BR>
jobs, such as firefighter and trash collector, would be described as<BR>
"make-work". It is reasonable to conclude that the make-work which Juan<BR>
talks about is, in fact, the very same dangerous work which the recruiter<BR>
mentions. This is further supported by Juan's observation that he was not<BR>
considered "too dumb and useless for anything but make-work." Non-military<BR>
service is made up of busy work, and busy work is given to those who are...<BR>
well... dumb and useless. That's hardly support for the notion that many<BR>
modern civil service jobs are encompassed under the umbrella of Federal<BR>
Service.<BR>
<BR>
	Juan's father, upon hearing of his son's wish to join with the Federal<BR>
Service, immediately assumes that it's military service. He says<BR>
specifically:<BR>
<BR>
	"This planet is now peaceful and happy and we enjoy good enough relations<BR>
with other planets. So what is this Federal Service? Parasitism, pure and<BR>
simple. A functionless organism, utterly obsolete, living on the<BR>
tax-payers."<BR>
<BR>
	Federal Service, according to Juan's father, is utterly useless because<BR>
earth is peaceful, and war does not loom on the horizon. Please note that<BR>
Juan's father explicitly refers to Federal Service, not simply military<BR>
service, nor any given branch. This comment makes absolutely no sense if<BR>
Federal Service and military service are not viewed by Juan's father as<BR>
being one in the same. After all, trash collectors, firefighters, and groups<BR>
like the Peace Corps would still be doing their jobs.<BR>
<BR>
	In the same vein, why does Juan tell us that he and his classmates assumed<BR>
that DuBois, the History and Moral Philosophy teacher, was a military man?<BR>
This would appear to be a little odd if all manner of jobs were encompassed<BR>
under the heading of Federal Service. After all, DuBois could have been a<BR>
trash collector, a firefighter, or a member of something like the Peace<BR>
Corps.<BR>
<BR>
	During Juan's enlistment procedure, he runs into a doctor. When Juan asks<BR>
him whether he was a doctor before he joined up, he replies that he is in<BR>
fact a civilian. He goes on to give a short justification of his decision<BR>
not to join. Despite the fact that Juan never explicitly mentions military<BR>
service, the doctor use that term. This doesn't make a whole lot of sense if<BR>
Federal Service and military service are not seen as synonymous by the<BR>
doctor. After all, he could have joined up to be a trash collector, a<BR>
firefighter, or a member of something like the Peace Corps.<BR>
<BR>
	As the narrative progresses, Juan runs into many people who are<BR>
"civilians". He runs into merchant marines, office workers, and so on.<BR>
However, he never once runs into a character who is explicitly stated to be<BR>
an enfranchised veteran of a non-military career. He never once runs into<BR>
someone who is described as being in the Federal Service who is<BR>
unambiguously described as not being in a military service. I would expect<BR>
that one of the many people Juan describes in the book would fall into one<BR>
of these categories. He does, after all, meet plenty of civilians. Still,<BR>
the lack of such characters forces me to argue from silence, which isn't<BR>
enough to prove my point. However, when such an argument is coupled with the<BR>
one in which Juan and the folks around him see military service and Federal<BR>
Service to be synonymous, it becomes much more compelling.<BR>
<BR>
	 As far as the characters in the book are concerned, military service and<BR>
Federal Service are one in the same. This fact buttresses the fact that<BR>
there are no non-military Federal service jobs mentioned, with the exception<BR>
of the explicit mention of really unpleasant jobs which there is good reason<BR>
to believe are invented by the government for those who are smart enough to<BR>
understand the oath, but so incompetent in one way or another that they<BR>
can't function in the military.<BR>
<BR>
	There is one other major section, which I will get to in a little bit. I'd<BR>
like to move on to some other matters first:<BR>
<BR>
	As to whether or not Heinlein was "lying", I really don't know. I do know,<BR>
for a fact, that I never once claimed that he was. I did say he was wrong,<BR>
and I stand by that. I can think of several reasons Heinlein might be wrong,<BR>
but I do not know for sure. Much like my original post, I see no reason to<BR>
speculate on possible reasons for Heinlein's error. Gifford does, and his<BR>
speculation seems pretty reasonable, but I don't know enough about Heinlein.<BR>
<BR>
	As to whether or not the supporters of the "broad and far-reaching civil<BR>
service" read of the book are lying, I do not know. It is certainly possible<BR>
that some of them are. The simple fact of the matter is that there are a<BR>
number of people who make the claim that certain things are explicitly<BR>
stated in the book when they simply are not.<BR>
<BR>
	On the subject of the value of literary criticism, I don't really care. I<BR>
find it somewhat discouraging that some have decided to use their response<BR>
to a post I wrote as a soapbox to air their personal grievances about the<BR>
field of literary criticism in general.<BR>
<BR>
	I will point out that I don't see the need to ask an author what his novel<BR>
says. If he has a competent grasp of the English language, I can read his<BR>
works on my own. While interesting and enlightening observations can be made<BR>
when a novel is intertextualized with the author's commentary, the author's<BR>
commentary cannot be said to overwrite what is actually in the book. A novel<BR>
should be able to stand on its own, regardless of what an author later says<BR>
he intended.<BR>
<BR>
	If Heinlein had said that "Starship Troopers" was intended to be a novel<BR>
about Chinese tea salesmen, would it be reasonable for a reader to suspend<BR>
all thought processes and take Heinlein's word for it? I don't. In the same<BR>
vein, I don't believe that a reader should suspend their critical faculties<BR>
and take Heinlein's word for it when he says something considerably less<BR>
drastic.<BR>
<BR>
	Speaking of intent, there's been a heck of a lot of talk about it in<BR>
various responses. I'm a little confused about this. I did put forth my<BR>
opinion that the full strength of the message of the book is diluted if one<BR>
understands civil service to cover other jobs. I never claimed in my post<BR>
that I knew what Heinlein's intended meaning was. Even if Heinlein was still<BR>
alive, and he came over to my house and we chatted at length about his<BR>
intended meaning, I still could not be sure if he was telling the truth, or<BR>
if he was actually being accurate, so I wouldn't be able to say with any<BR>
authority what his intended meaning was.<BR>
<BR>
	That's the thing about intent. Even if the author informs you of his or her<BR>
intended meaning, it doesn't mean that you actually know. You just know what<BR>
the author wrote or said at a later date. That's all. There can be a big<BR>
difference. If I recall, this problem is not a new one, Plato has Socrates<BR>
comment on it in the "Apology". Socrates talks about poets being the most<BR>
poorly equipped to discuss their works.<BR>
<BR>
	Even so, by using the phrase, "I think," I had believed that I was making<BR>
it abundantly clear that I was expressing my opinion and that I wasn't<BR>
trying to pass off what I was saying as anything related to fact. Apparently<BR>
there was some misunderstanding.<BR>
<BR>
	To clarify: Much like many other folks, I believe that there is an<BR>
underlying message contained within "Starship Troopers". Further, I believe<BR>
that the strength of this message is diluted severely if Federal Service is<BR>
read as covering more mundane civil service jobs. The real philosophical<BR>
meat of the book seems to be clustered in certain sections of the text, and<BR>
these sections make much less sense if a more general interpretation of<BR>
Federal Service is subscribed to. The oath Juan takes is not the oath of a<BR>
trash collector and the discussions in the History and Moral Philosophy<BR>
classes use language which appears seem to exclude members of, say, the<BR>
Peace Corps or other more general civil servants. More on that in a few<BR>
paragraphs, though.<BR>
<BR>
	For the most part in my response to Leonard I wasn't really "interpreting"<BR>
Heinlein's work anyway, I was merely making claims about what's actually<BR>
between the covers of "Starship Troopers". If I had said "Starship Troopers<BR>
is about crazy beatnicks who read poetry and find love in the stars," many<BR>
members of this list would have rushed to correct me. I suspect some would<BR>
have even thought that I was insane. "There is nothing," such folks might<BR>
have said, "to support your absurd claim!" They would have been right. I<BR>
would have made a claim which is not supported by the text of the novel. My<BR>
contention is that Leonard made a claim which is not supported by the text<BR>
of the novel.<BR>
<BR>
	Leonard makes the claim that I have slurred those who disagree with me,<BR>
including himself. I do not believe I have slurred anybody. I did say that<BR>
there was a time in the past when I believed that folks who claimed that<BR>
certain things are in the book, which in fact are not had a reading<BR>
deficiency, or were comfortable with lying. It has been my experience in the<BR>
past that folks who repeat things which aren't true are either mistaken or<BR>
lying. If anybody believes that to be a slur, I apologize.<BR>
<BR>
	Leonard makes the claim that my logic is flawed, and that I assume facts<BR>
which are not in evidence. I have outlined some of my evidence toward the<BR>
beginning of the post. Leonard would like me to quote, chapter and verse<BR>
from the novel to support my contention. James Gifford has done a much<BR>
better job than I could at this, and I previously referenced his essay in my<BR>
post. I want to stress that I did not challenge anyone to "dig up" some<BR>
essay, I provided a link to it, which seemed to be a much better option than<BR>
cutting and pasting large swaths of it. While I will try to go into a little<BR>
more detail below, please understand that I'm trying to keep the size of my<BR>
post to a minimum.<BR>
<BR>
	Leonard's claim about my logic is that I only begin to reason after I make<BR>
certain assumptions. As I understand it, he is saying the there are<BR>
plentiful examples of non-military Federal Service jobs in the book, and I<BR>
am mistaken in assuming that these jobs are military in nature. The best<BR>
example that he can come up with, a dishwasher, is ambiguous at best. It<BR>
could be make-work, or it could be military support work, depending on the<BR>
context.<BR>
<BR>
	I outlined earlier the view of the Federal Service institution that those<BR>
who would be in a position to know (the characters in the book) seem to<BR>
share. I simply read what Heinlein had them say, and came to my conclusion<BR>
based on the web which was created between these examples.<BR>
<BR>
	Major Reid, an instructor in History and Moral Philosophy, is someone who<BR>
would know the system better than Juan, his father, and a doctor at a<BR>
recruiting center. Yet he appears to view Federal Service as military<BR>
service as well. I'll let him speak for himself.<BR>
<BR>
	"And you have forgotten that in peacetime most veterans come from<BR>
non-combatant auxiliary services and have not been subjected to the full<BR>
rigors of military discipline; they have merely been harried, overworked and<BR>
endangeredyet their votes count."<BR>
<BR>
	This passage is placed in the context of a discussion of why the Federation<BR>
government is successful, and it is strongly suggested that the definition<BR>
of "auxiliary" which Major Reid is operating under refers to auxiliaries to<BR>
the military services.<BR>
<BR>
	The only assumption I make here is that the small number of non-military<BR>
veterans are the make-work types which I've commented on previously. While<BR>
that's an assumption, it doesn't seem to be an unreasonable one. I'm not, as<BR>
Leonard has claimed, basing this on what I've seen in the contemporary world<BR>
around me, but on the comments which characters in the book make about<BR>
Federal Service.<BR>
<BR>
	Just a few pages later, Reid goes on to state:<BR>
<BR>
	"we require each person who wishes to exert control over the state to wager<BR>
his own<BR>
life  and lose it, if need be  to save the life of the state."<BR>
<BR>
	This comment is nearly senseless if we imagine Major Reid to be talking<BR>
about garbage collectors and the like. It makes some sense if we narrow<BR>
things down to merely jobs which would be at least as dangerous as, or<BR>
possible more dangerous than, service in the military. Firefighters, who<BR>
have dangerous jobs, might very well be included in such an interpretation<BR>
of civil service. But, if that's the case, why would firefighter slots be<BR>
filled only by those folks who were dumb and useless? The job of a<BR>
firefighter requires many of the same traits and abilities that service in<BR>
the military would require: intelligence, physical strength, endurance and<BR>
so on. There would also be a lot of firefighter slots, not to mention a lot<BR>
of other jobs which are dangerous (but which happen to fall within the realm<BR>
of civil service). It could even be argued that these folks would outnumber<BR>
the military types. Yet we are told by Major Reid that in peacetime most<BR>
veterans come from the ranks of non-combatant auxiliary services.<BR>
<BR>
	It would require an unreasonable broadening of "auxiliary" to include all<BR>
manner of dangerous civil service jobs. Further, such a broadening would<BR>
make certain assumptions which have no support from the text, such as the<BR>
assumption that the voting franchise was broadened at one point in the past<BR>
to cover such civil servants. Unfortunately, in the history lesson we are<BR>
given, there is no evidence of this. Although the voting  franchise is<BR>
mentioned, we are never told that it was broadened to include other types of<BR>
civil servants.<BR>
<BR>
	This history lesson (combined with the fact that folks in the book's<BR>
universe see Federal Service and military service as one in the same and<BR>
combined with the fact that we see no non-military Federal servants, nor<BR>
veteran non-military Federal servants) strongly suggests that the right to<BR>
vote was not, in fact, extended to veteran trash collectors, veteran Peace<BR>
Corps members, or veteran firefighters.<BR>
<BR>
	The book is not short on commentary about the nature of Federal Service.<BR>
Indeed, the very nature of Federal Service appears to be the central point<BR>
around which the whole book revolves. After all, we are not reading simply a<BR>
"day in the life" of Juan Rico. We are not simply seeing some portion of<BR>
Heinlein's universe through his eyes just for the hell of it. What we are<BR>
seeing are the tenets upon which his society is founded, as explained to him<BR>
by those around him, and as he internalizes them and comes to understand<BR>
them. The nature of Federal Service is anything but peripheral, it is<BR>
undeniably central to the book. Heinlein spends a quite a bit of time having<BR>
his characters talk about it. As readers, Heinlein certainly does not leave<BR>
us high and dry when it comes to descriptions of the nature of Federal<BR>
Service, and what it entails.<BR>
<BR>
	It doesn't appear that the various points I've raised have the capacity to<BR>
be equivocal, as many of them make direct references to the military.<BR>
<BR>
	I am unclear on how or where I have *assumed* facts not in evidence. It<BR>
doesn't appear that I am "assuming" much, and when I do assume, I try to<BR>
make sure that there's a reason to do so. I am certainly drawing what I<BR>
believe to be reasonable and logical connections between what the various<BR>
characters in the book say about the universe in which they live. I don't<BR>
believe that I am being overly pedantic or too literal-minded either. I am<BR>
not drawing on what appear to be unimportant passages, nor am I focusing too<BR>
much on the definition of a single word or phrase.<BR>
<BR>
	All of this is at variance with what Heinlein has said about "Starship<BR>
Troopers". It's also at variance with what you have said. I apologize if you<BR>
find either to be insulting.<BR>
<BR>
	Samuel D. Weiss takes issue with two of the claims Gifford makes in his<BR>
essay, specifically on the question of uniforms and the military nature of<BR>
"labor battalions" and "R&D". In response, I point out that the essay does<BR>
not appear to hinge on those two points, and neither does the novel<BR>
"Starship Troopers". He takes potshots at some very minor examples which are<BR>
mentioned effectively in passing, or as part of a more detailed analysis.<BR>
For example, Gifford does point out that Juan's father mentions 'pretty<BR>
uniforms', but then in the next beat points out a second comment which<BR>
Juan's father makes which is much more explicit. This contextualizes the<BR>
comment about 'pretty uniforms', which serves to hammer home the fact that<BR>
Juan's father equates Federal Service with military service.<BR>
<BR>
	Samuel says that he, personally, never considered Federal Service to be<BR>
specifically military or non-military and that such a distinction is<BR>
irrelevant. However, the book is rife with references to military service,<BR>
and Major Reid's commentary in the History and Moral Philosophy class<BR>
appears to hinge directly on a certain understanding of the term. I think<BR>
that this is sufficient reason to conclude that the question of what Federal<BR>
Service consists of is not only relevant, but is actually at the heart of<BR>
the work.<BR>
<BR>
	Jon states that "no violence is done to Heinlein's thesis if one assumes<BR>
that (in peacetime, anyway) some people earn their franchise by (say)<BR>
assissting in colonization or public-works projects on inhospitable worlds.<BR>
Even the Federation military probably spends a fair amount of time on such<BR>
projects during peacetime." I have no disagreements with this. It is<BR>
certainly true that, during peacetime, soldiers are often pressed into<BR>
service performing non-combat jobs. I don't believe I made any comments in<BR>
my post which would suggest that I would disagree with such a statement.<BR>
Does the National Guard stop being "military" simply because it aids in<BR>
disaster relief efforts? No. Does the U.S. Army stop being "military" simply<BR>
because it aids the INS border guards? Nope. Since militaries, in times of<BR>
peace, may focus their resources on something other than warfare I'm not<BR>
sure that I see any substantial disagreement, I haven't really said anything<BR>
to the contrary.<BR>
<BR>
	Jon's comments concerning whether or not claims of fascism can be refuted,<BR>
on the other hand, do not have relevance to the topic being discussed. I<BR>
expressed no opinion on this either way.<BR>
<BR>
	The claims which have been made about my arrogance are downright absurd.<BR>
Jon makes the claim that I am "arrogant in the extreme" because I've claimed<BR>
that Heinlein "was 'wrong' about some aspect of his own creation". I will<BR>
state that Heinlein's comments (from "Expanded Universe") are factually<BR>
incorrect, specifically the following passage:<BR>
<BR>
	"In STARSHIP TROOPERS it is stated flatly and more than once that nineteen<BR>
out of twenty veterans are not military veterans. Instead, 95% of voters are<BR>
what we call today 'former members of federal civil service.'"<BR>
<BR>
	Unfortunately, Heinlein was factually incorrect about his own work. It is<BR>
not stated in the book, even once, that nineteen out of twenty veterans are<BR>
not military veterans. As a result, the second statement, which logically<BR>
follows from the first, is not supported by the text of the novel. I am not<BR>
clear on how my pointing this out can be construed as arrogance.<BR>
<BR>
	Leonard states that I am guilty of "arrogant presumption" of the "highest<BR>
degree" because I claimed to know what the author intended. I must point out<BR>
that I never claimed to know what the author intended. I simply pointed out<BR>
that both Leonard and Heinlein were incorrect, and I expressed my opinion<BR>
that the full impact of the book is lost if a more general read of Federal<BR>
Service is subscribed to. Again, I am not clear on how this can be construed<BR>
as arrogance.<BR>
<BR>
	I will now close by pointing out, although I haven't seen anyone mention it<BR>
yet, that there are certain problems when one quibbles about the meaning of<BR>
the terms "Federal Service" and "civilian" in the book. Civilian is used<BR>
throughout the book in a fashion which is clearly placed in contrast with<BR>
Federal servants and veterans of the Federal Service. Before Juan joins up<BR>
with the infantry, he states that he is no longer a civilian. This doesn't<BR>
really support the possibility that Juan refers to non-military Federal<BR>
servants as civilians as a result of his time in the infantry. After all, he<BR>
hasn't even entered the infantry yet. The doctor refers to himself as a<BR>
civilian, and it is clear from his statement that he is not enfranchised.<BR>
When describing the make up of the population on Sanctuary, Juan is explicit<BR>
in making references to both civilians and Federal Service people. Juan's<BR>
father's quotes about Federal Service also tend to rule out an<BR>
interpretation of "civilian" and "non-military Federal Servant".<BR>
<BR>
	I apologize greatly for taking up so much bandwidth. I felt it necessary<BR>
since a number of list members took issue with my statements, and responding<BR>
to each in private e-mail would be too time-consuming. I will not respond to<BR>
any replies to this message made on the list, and there's a really good<BR>
chance I won't respond in depth to replies off the list either. I don't mean<BR>
this as an insult, I simply can't imagine saying anything else about the<BR>
subject of Federal Service.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 08:28:28 -0400<BR>
From: Joseph J Alberti Jr <albertijjr@juno.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>
<BR>
I believe Dulinor saw the assasination of Strephon as the last resort. <BR>
strephon was his friend afterall and he did elevate him to Archduke.  I<BR>
think Dulinor came to the point of frustration that the conservative<BR>
nobility would not allow him to proceed forward with his vision (those<BR>
nobles more interested in protecting their personal interests and not<BR>
those of the Imperium, I could see as natural supporters of Lucan later).<BR>
 <BR>
<BR>
I could image Strephon having conversations with Dulinor urging patience<BR>
and that his reforms would require time to take root.  As Dulinor pussed<BR>
the case further, I could see the two of them growing further and further<BR>
apart.  Dulinor came to the point that he believed that the only way he<BR>
could improve the lives of the citizens of the Imperium was to become<BR>
head of the government.  Dulinor assasinated Strephon to put himself in a<BR>
position where he could bring about the reforms he believed would<BR>
revitalize the Imperium.  In the current Imperial system, there was no<BR>
other way.  According to the MegaTraveller Imperial Encyclopedia<BR>
(referee's section), the Moot is not required to confirm Rights of<BR>
Assasination.  Dulinor could bypass the nobility in Core Sector who<BR>
dominated the Moot.<BR>
<BR>
I understand Dulinor is probably one of the most disputed topics in<BR>
Traveller .   The conversation on the subject says a great deal about<BR>
Traveller.  If we can have debates and discussions about topics such as<BR>
this, Traveller is indeed alive and well.  All the people at GDW who<BR>
created this universe did a fantastic job and showed incredible<BR>
imagination.  They made a universe so real to all of us that we can have<BR>
such passionate conversation and views about it.  <BR>
<BR>
These are my thoughts on the matter, I do not want to start any "flame<BR>
wars" on the list.  I am expressing my views to answer the first posting<BR>
on this subject.<BR>
<BR>
Joe Alberti<BR>
"Long Live Emperor Dulinor!"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:40:39 -0400<BR>
From: Eric Freitas <ericfrei@gte.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Emergency<BR>
<BR>
Glad to hear that you're all right Jesse.<BR>
<BR>
Obtrav:  Could this have been a Templar plot to deprive Jesse of his<BR>
               chicken tenders and mozzarella sticks?  What secrets of the<BR>
               conspiracy are you writing about now????<BR>
<BR>
Eric<BR>
<BR>
At 18:08 10/5/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
>All,<BR>
><BR>
>Due to a fire, some 2nd degree burns, a new job, and a stainless steal bitch<BR>
>of a cold or some other bug that literally dropped me for two days, I was<BR>
>out of touch for ahile.  I'm back, and desperately trying to play catch up<BR>
>on the graphics.  I've already e-mailed Loren & Phil seperately with the<BR>
>full details.  Didn't want anyone really freaking out or something.<BR>
><BR>
>Have to get back to work.<BR>
>Jesse<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:37:49 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Digital Village<BR>
<BR>
>One of the big problems that I have with the US culture is it's instance<BR>
>that everyone else must speak english. Other people do not. These are just<BR>
>growing pains in the Digital Village. :)<BR>
<BR>
As one Swede told me in Stockholm (in very good English), "We like to <BR>
travel, nobody speaks Swedish."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
It was a typical net.exercise -- a screaming mob pounding on a greasy spot<BR>
on the pavement, where used to lie the carcass of a dead horse.<BR>
                  http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:43:59 -0400<BR>
From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
Subject: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
>.  Or didn't you notice that Morgan is not the name of any old samurai clans?<BR>
<BR>
For those of you who haven't seen the latest Highlander movie, here is a <BR>
non-spoiler summary:<BR>
"Scotsmen lobbing off heads."<BR>
<BR>
Both the main characters are *very* old katana using Scotsmen.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: Multi-culturalism.  One of my favorite examples is from H. Beam <BR>
Piper's "Uller Uprising",  Colonel Hideyoshi O'Leary.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>
"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>
burgers & garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:39:39 -0500<BR>
From: Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >.  Or didn't you notice that Morgan is not the name of any old samurai clans?<BR>
><BR>
> For those of you who haven't seen the latest Highlander movie, here is a<BR>
> non-spoiler summary:<BR>
> "Scotsmen lobbing off heads."<BR>
><BR>
> Both the main characters are *very* old katana using Scotsmen.<BR>
<BR>
Both the McLeod highlanders have used katanas since the<BR>
beginning of their tales (the first movie and the beginning of the<BR>
series) and only use other swords in flashback scenes.  Ramirez<BR>
might have had one, too, when he meets Connor.<BR>
<BR>
bloo<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 09:03:50 -0700<BR>
From: Bill <beast@aracnet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> >.  Or didn't you notice that Morgan is not the name of any old <BR>
>>samurai clans?<BR>
>><BR>
>> For those of you who haven't seen the latest Highlander movie, here is a<BR>
>> non-spoiler summary:<BR>
>> "Scotsmen lobbing off heads."<BR>
>><BR>
>> Both the main characters are *very* old katana using Scotsmen.<BR>
><BR>
>Both the McLeod highlanders have used katanas since the<BR>
>beginning of their tales (the first movie and the beginning of the<BR>
>series) and only use other swords in flashback scenes.  Ramirez<BR>
>might have had one, too, when he meets Connor.<BR>
><BR>
>bloo<BR>
<BR>
I may be mistaken. I believe Ramirez was using a katana when he first <BR>
encountered McLeod. I think that Mcleod started using Ramnirez's <BR>
katana after Ramirez was killed in the first movie.<BR>
<BR>
I think... Perhaps a review of the movie is in order<BR>
<BR>
Bill<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:02:23 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Zombies in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Would serious damage be done to the Traveller canon if zombies were <BR>
introduced in the form of a minor race that reproduces by infecting other <BR>
beings? I'm thinking of running a Resident Evil-type adventure where the PCs <BR>
are stuck on a ship during jump and they're pretty much the only remaining <BR>
persons who haven't been infected.<BR>
<BR>
What do you think?<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:09:07 -0500<BR>
From: Charles McKnight <cmcknight01@home.com><BR>
Subject: Starship Operators Manual<BR>
<BR>
I seem to recall there was supposed to be a Starship Operators Manual <BR>
published once upon a time.  Did that ever happen and can anyone tell me if <BR>
it just focuses on the ship operation or if it gets into the economic <BR>
aspects?  Also, was there ever a Starport Administrator's guide <BR>
published?  I thought I recalled hearing something about that a few years <BR>
ago, but haven't found any references.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Charles McKnight<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:09:54 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Tod Glenn writes:<BR>
>>True, but starport security may be called upon to deal with certain<BR>
>>para-military situations that are extremely rare on most planets<BR>
>>(eg. those PC's with gauss rifles).<BR>
>That is what the swat teams are for.  These are probably ex military types,<BR>
>well equiped and receiving special training.<BR>
<BR>
        For sure, assuming that the starport is big enough to warrent such a<BR>
        team.<BR>
<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>Since the Imperium doesn't have the limitations of Posse Comitatus,<BR>
>if it got really ugly, and forces were available, the SA aministrator could<BR>
>request help from the local military commander.  However, I view this as<BR>
>rare and unlikely.  The Starport police will probably have access to<BR>
>anything the PCs are likely to have, there are more of them, and they will<BR>
>have good communication and access to startport systems.  On an up port they<BR>
>can seal sections and all kinds of other nasty stuff.<BR>
<BR>
        On many starports this would be true.  On small class D (or even<BR>
class C)<BR>
        starports especially well-armed PC's might be more than they can handle.<BR>
        That's OK, there are going to be whole worlds that a nasty party could<BR>
        take control of with a little bit of work (not that they are<BR>
necessarily going<BR>
        to be able to hold it for long).<BR>
<BR>
>>to pursue someone out of the starport who killed a non-believer in<BR>
>>the starport?<BR>
<snipped><BR>
>And the locals won't necessarily want to ignore a request for extradition<BR>
>from the startport authority, and by association, the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
        Depends on the planet, but I would agree in most cases.<BR>
<BR>
>>How will the Imperium find out if starport security, in<BR>
>>fear for their family's lives, secretly force sophonts back into<BR>
>>the hands of the local police?<BR>
>Some one will talk.  As they say, three can keep a secret if 2 are dead.<BR>
>Plus there is the sense of duty and pride thing.  "How dare you threaten an<BR>
>agent of the Imperium!".  In the US, threatening a Federal law enforcement<BR>
>agent can land you in federal prison.  Heck, you can get 5 years in the penn<BR>
>just for lying to one.<BR>
<BR>
        I suppose that the proof thing might not matter that much to the<BR>
        Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
>SA officers are likely to be off worlders, so there won't necessarily be any<BR>
>fondness for the local planet or it's government.  In any case, one of the<BR>
>perks will probably be housing on station.  And threats against the familiy<BR>
>of an Imperial agent will be an Imperial crime, one that the Imperium will<BR>
>not take likely.<BR>
<BR>
        This is what I have been trying to get at.  I was originally asking<BR>
about<BR>
        a starport staffed by local citizens living on the planet outside of the<BR>
        starport.  Naturally, using personel from off-world housed on the<BR>
starport<BR>
        would change things.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:22:28 -0500<BR>
From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
- ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:02:23 CDT<BR>
<BR>
>Would serious damage be done to the Traveller canon if zombies were <BR>
>introduced in the form of a minor race that reproduces by infecting other <BR>
>beings? I'm thinking of running a Resident Evil-type adventure where the PCs <BR>
>are stuck on a ship during jump and they're pretty much the only remaining <BR>
>persons who haven't been infected.<BR>
<BR>
One of the races in GURPS Aliens (the Riders, I think) were basically a sentient virus, though a "colony" could only inhabit one body at a time IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
The main problem is: why hasn't this race been encountered before?<BR>
<BR>
A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
Brandon Cope<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:28:50 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Maybe their the product of experimental geneering. Perhaps by the Darrians <BR>
during their heyday. Then again, who knows how advanced the Imperium <BR>
secretly is? For all we know, Strephon may know about Grandfather!<BR>
<BR>
Or maybe the Imperium has simply covered them up. Studying them could be <BR>
what Longbow II is _really_ about!<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Brandon Cope" <copeab@mail.elc.net><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
>Subject: Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR>
>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:22:28 -0500<BR>
><BR>
>---------- Original Message ----------------------------------<BR>
>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:02:23 CDT<BR>
><BR>
> >Would serious damage be done to the Traveller canon if zombies were<BR>
> >introduced in the form of a minor race that reproduces by infecting other<BR>
> >beings? I'm thinking of running a Resident Evil-type adventure where the <BR>
>PCs<BR>
> >are stuck on a ship during jump and they're pretty much the only <BR>
>remaining<BR>
> >persons who haven't been infected.<BR>
><BR>
>One of the races in GURPS Aliens (the Riders, I think) were basically a <BR>
>sentient virus, though a "colony" could only inhabit one body at a time <BR>
>IIRC.<BR>
><BR>
>The main problem is: why hasn't this race been encountered before?<BR>
><BR>
>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>
>Brandon Cope<BR>
><BR>
>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>
<BR>
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End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3158<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 14 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3159<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Last Call Traveller Items For Sale<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Japanese Language....(slighty Long, sorry all)<BR>
Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:31:58 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
James Jensen writes:<BR>
>>>Does starport security have the right<BR>
>>>to pursue someone out of the starport who killed a non-believer in<BR>
>>>the starport?<BR>
>>Interesting question. Probably not.<BR>
>Probably YES!!! (IMO, anyway)<BR>
>The way I see it, the 3i has very little influence in the politics of the <BR>
>worlds themselves. The 3i controls everything outside of the 100d limit. <BR>
>Starports, however, count as beyond this limit for social purposes. Any <BR>
>crime commited inside the starport is therefore considered an _Imperial_ <BR>
>offense and the violater _can_ be pursued beyond the starport.<BR>
>Here's my argument: Worlds in the 3i are a lot like states are in the USA. <BR>
>They control most of the civil governing responsibility. If someone commits <BR>
>an offense in, say, the state of Indiana and then flees to the state of <BR>
>Illinois, the police from Indiana may arrest that criminal in Illinois! <BR>
>(forget Cannonball Run 2 - things have changed) The only restricting (unless <BR>
>I'm mistaken) is that the state of Illinois must approve (which is almost <BR>
>always the case).<BR>
>However, I see the 3i as possibly being a lot more controlling in matters <BR>
>such as these and they may be able to arrest the criminal with or without <BR>
>approval.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
        I see member worlds in the 3I as being far more independant and<BR>
        diverse that states in the USA, and in many ways I see the 3I as being<BR>
        less controlling than the federal government in the USA.  As long as a<BR>
        planetary government doesn't enslave sophonts, use nukes, interfere<BR>
        with trade or plot against the Imperium it can act pretty much as it<BR>
        pleases.  "You have been found guilty of chewing gum in a public place,<BR>
        you are sentenced to be eaten to death by red antoids."  Just how far<BR>
        Imperial authorities are permitted to go in pursuing a bad guy out<BR>
of the<BR>
        starport is tied up (as has been pointed out) with the question of the<BR>
        nature of the relationship between the Imperium and its citizens.<BR>
<BR>
        While we're at it, just what is illegal in a starport?  Presumably<BR>
trying<BR>
        to blow up the starport, shooting Imperial personel, etc.  I would<BR>
        expect that things like murdering, injuring or kidnapping sophonts; <BR>
        and destroying, damaging ot stealing property would be outlawed.<BR>
        What about fraud?  Brawling?  What is allowed in self-defense?<BR>
        Is there some kind of court in the starport?  How do criminals get<BR>
        punished?  I imagine that it is up to the local noble to judge those<BR>
        accused.  Comments, suggestions...?<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:49:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>>>What happens when local police are after a "most wanted" type<BR>
>>>>who gets to the starport?  The security forces may be tempted to quietly<BR>
>>>>hand the criminal over, or they may be coerced.<BR>
>>>As for coercion, trying that on the starport is a *real* bad move. They<BR>
>>>can express their displeasure in a lot of ways. From strip searches of<BR>
>>>locals entering and leaving, to refusing to allow certain imports or<BR>
>>>exports.<BR>
>>Who said anything about coercion on the starport?  It's just that<BR>
>>a few of the citizens who work there have been found to be guilty of<BR>
>>disloyalty to the state.  Even if the senior administrators decide to<BR>
>>spend the rest of their lives in a reeducation camp for causing<BR>
>>trouble, there is no guarentee that the local rulers will mind if a <BR>
>> few of their subjects are inconvenienced by the starport authority.  If<BR>
>>the authority insists on seriously disrupting trade, then the local<BR>
>>government will be the least of its problems.<BR>
>If the situation doesn't fall under "quietly hand him over" then you<BR>
>*are* coercing "the starport".<BR>
<BR>
        I don't see how enforcing local law on criminals can be interpreted<BR>
        as coercing the starport.  :)<BR>
<BR>
>>Even if security is brought in from off-world, they<BR>
>>still have to live on-world (I do not envisage people living in the<BR>
>>starport).  I do agree that security from off-world would be better,<BR>
>>but I still see problems.<BR>
>The port is a lot more than the landing pads and warehouses. There will<BR>
>be hotels, bars and other entertainment, as well as (in many if not<BR>
>most cases) housing for port personnel. <BR>
<BR>
        Many starports IMTU are less well-equiped.<BR>
<BR>
>Keep in mind that *because* of extrality, things are much simpler for<BR>
>*both* the port and the locals if transients stay on the port mosdt of<BR>
>the time, and ditto for offworld personnel.<BR>
>Not out of intolerance, but simply because it means fewer checkpoints<BR>
>and less traffic thru the ones that exist.<BR>
>On almost any world, there will be *something* worth smuggling in or<BR>
>out. As well as local customs that might trip up offworlders. <BR>
<BR>
        Yup.  But I would expect that it would be easier and cheeper to<BR>
        recruit locals and let them live out of the starport.  That is how <BR>
        marine and air ports are run here on Terra.  Not that the situation<BR>
        is the same, but how many people want to live in a starport rather<BR>
        than in a city.  Of course on some worlds this could be a big plus.<BR>
        Beyond that, I have generally resisted putting too many facilities<BR>
        in starports because it tends to reduce the variety that PC's face<BR>
        from world to world.  I don't want them to be able to go drinking,<BR>
        stay in a hotel, shop (at law level 0), etc. in every starport that<BR>
        they stop at.<BR>
<BR>
>>>And for locals who are employed there, one of the "perks" is likely to<BR>
>>>be housing at the port. Including their family.<BR>
>>I guess that we just have different ideas on starports.  I don't see<BR>
>>more than a very few non-military people living in a starport.<BR>
>I think you are viewing a starport as being like an airport. It makes<BR>
>more sense to think of it as a small town with port facilities. <BR>
<BR>
        I think of starports as a cross between maritime and air ports.<BR>
        It makes sense (to me) to think of them that way.<BR>
<BR>
>I tend to think of the way ports were described in a lot of Andre<BR>
>Norton's SF. <BR>
>Also, consider that housing is likely to be part of the port *because*<BR>
>of the extrality. It's the only way to make sure that the local laws<BR>
>can't touch offworld personnel without permission from the folks<BR>
>running the port.<BR>
<BR>
        That has been my point (in part).<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:59:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>>For some jobs, certainly.  For other jobs, sometimes.  It will<BR>
>>>depend on a number of factors.  I like the image of pack<BR>
>>>animals being unloaded into a Freetrader.<BR>
>>So do I. The image of people in dark cloaks on a desert world using camels <BR>
>>to carry the cargo into a starship is particularly enjoyable.<BR>
>Not gonna happen. <BR>
<BR>
        Sure it is.  IMTU, at least.<BR>
<BR>
>*TO* the ship, ok. But not into it. <BR>
>The cargo needs to be packed into shipping containers, and the<BR>
>loadmaster needs to fiogure out where best to put each container based<BR>
>on its mass (and on where the center of mass of the container is).<BR>
<BR>
        Given that in Traveller (in CT at least) the mass of the cargo has<BR>
        absolutely no influence whatsoever on the acceleration of the ship<BR>
        carrying it, worrying about such details may be unwarrented.  IMTU<BR>
        shipping containers are not required, though they are generally used<BR>
        at good starports and moderate-high TL worlds.  Placing the cargo<BR>
        appropriately in the cargo hold may be accomplished whether the<BR>
        cargo is brought in by robot, forklift, dolly, pack animal or sophont.<BR>
        The biggest objection to bringing camels into your starship would<BR>
        be, um, unintended cargo.  :-o<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:30:40 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Sorry Dom, I'm just using your post AND this thread as a vehicle for the<BR>
following joke. I hope those that continue to read will enjoy this as much<BR>
as I did. I am NOT a native New Englander but I have distributed this far<BR>
and wide to all my friends here.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
New Englanders & COLD Temps<BR>
<BR>
60 F, Floridians wear coats, gloves and woolly hats. New Englanders<BR>
sunbathe.<BR>
<BR>
50 F, New Yorkers try to turn on the heat. New Englanders plant gardens.<BR>
<BR>
40 F, Italian cars won't start. New Englanders drive with the windows down.<BR>
<BR>
32 F, Distilled water freezes. Lake Winnapesaukee cools off.<BR>
<BR>
20 F, Californians shiver uncontrollably. New Englanders have the last<BR>
cookout before it gets cold.<BR>
<BR>
15 F, New York landlords finally turn up the heat. New Englanders throw on a<BR>
sweater.<BR>
<BR>
0 F, Californians fly away to Mexico. New Englanders take in the flag.<BR>
<BR>
- -20 F, People in Miami cease to exist. New Englanders get out their winter<BR>
coats.<BR>
<BR>
- -40 F, Hollywood disintegrates. New England Girl Scouts begin selling<BR>
cookies door to door.<BR>
<BR>
- -60 F, Penguins begin to evacuate Antarctica. New England Boy Scouts have<BR>
"Winter Survival" classes.<BR>
<BR>
- -80 F, Mount St. Helen's freezes. New Englanders rent some videos and stay<BR>
home for the day.<BR>
<BR>
- -100 F, Santa Claus abandons the North Pole. New Englanders get frustrated<BR>
because they can't thaw the keg.<BR>
<BR>
- -297 F, Microbial life survives on dairy products. New England cows complain<BR>
of farmers with cold hands.<BR>
<BR>
- -460 F, Atomic motion stops. New Englanders start asking: "Cold 'nuff for<BR>
ya?"<BR>
<BR>
- -500 F, Hell freezes over. The Red Sox win the World Series.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:44:26 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Last Call Traveller Items For Sale<BR>
<BR>
If I might jump in here on this post, I would like to endorse Steve's<BR>
*sale*. I am in the middle of a transaction with him even as I type this. I<BR>
asked for and received a LOT of help from him to get just the items I<BR>
wanted/needed for my collection. I called and talked to him directly and we<BR>
did a little horse trading, etc. and I can tell you it was very pleasant and<BR>
very rewarding! I wholeheartedly recommend to anyone that they take a look<BR>
at his list. He has a LOT of bargains there....<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Dorfman, Steven, Maj" <Steven.Dorfman@mcconnell.af.mil><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 7:15 AM<BR>
Subject: Last Call Traveller Items For Sale<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Last call for Traveller items before I offer them up to ebay.  I still<BR>
have<BR>
> some grenadier 25mm and Martian Metals 15 mm minis available and a umber<BR>
of<BR>
> modules, traveller related games, adventures, and misc.<BR>
><BR>
> email:  steven.dorfman@mcconnell.af.mil<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:22:39 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
I agree with you on the "not into it" part but disagree with the shipping<BR>
containers, etc. In almost all of the games I played in our cargo hold was<BR>
full of speculation items on pallets, some containers that we picked up<BR>
through shipping companies, vehicles, ad nauseum. We only had 60 tons on the<BR>
old "Free Trader" available. On a number of occasions we left with almost<BR>
nothing in the cargo hold (fleeing for our lives in some cases) because we<BR>
were going on a "quest" or whatever. Our PC with the highest "steward" skill<BR>
was our loadmaster. If we were contracting to one of the larger shipping<BR>
lines we got containerized loads pretty much, but our GM rarely gave us this<BR>
opportunity. I'm sure that it is different for each GM. Whatever they will<BR>
allow you to *find* is what you haul.....<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 3:40 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
> Not gonna happen.<BR>
> *TO* the ship, ok. But not into it.<BR>
> The cargo needs to be packed into shipping containers, and the<BR>
> loadmaster needs to fiogure out where best to put each container based<BR>
> on its mass (and on where the center of mass of the container is).<BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:58:31 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
This is the case indeed. Ramirez was killed and the McLeod retrieved his<BR>
katana. This is shown in the first Highlander movie. The police forensics<BR>
(?) lady that he ends with, finds a chip off the blade, stuck in one the<BR>
cement/rebar support columns. Ramirez had trained in ancient Japan, which is<BR>
pointed in Highlander 3. The original sword also gets broken and McLeod<BR>
fashions a new blade for it from ancient Japanese sword steel that is found<BR>
in a cave belonging to the old Japanese Samurai that was teaching him<BR>
swordsmanship. The cave had been sealed for 300 years and contained 3 more<BR>
immortals. Enough, I'm sorry, I ramble and digress<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Bill" <beast@aracnet.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 12:03 PM<BR>
Subject: Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> I may be mistaken. I believe Ramirez was using a katana when he first<BR>
> encountered McLeod. I think that Mcleod started using Ramnirez's<BR>
> katana after Ramirez was killed in the first movie.<BR>
><BR>
> I think... Perhaps a review of the movie is in order<BR>
><BR>
> Bill<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 11:48:55 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>         If you're reading this in the digest, and have no interest in<BR>
> the subject line, please scroll down to the next message. I've bundled<BR>
> all my replies into one post in what might be a misguided attempt to<BR>
> make this less inconvenient for others.<BR>
<BR>
Okay, I'm not going to go over this point by point...<BR>
<BR>
I'll retract "general civil service". But I still maintain that the<BR>
majority of the jobs aren't military and are not necessarily "military<BR>
support" either.<BR>
<BR>
But here are some assumptions that could make a *major* difference:<BR>
<BR>
1. that "civilian" as used by Juan Rico and others in the military<BR>
   denotes people who are not in Federal Service, rather than merely<BR>
   people who are not in the military (the latter being the standard<BR>
   usage)<BR>
<BR>
2. "Labor battalion" *is* a military term. But it does *not* have to<BR>
   refer to a military unit.<BR>
<BR>
3. "Federal Service is equivalent to military service." That statement<BR>
   in and of itself points out that Federal Service *isn't* military<BR>
   service. "Nasty, hard work" and "miltary" are *not* the same thing.<BR>
<BR>
4. That statements made by members of the miltary regarding the rest of<BR>
   Federal Service to other members of the military, (or to potential<BR>
   recruits) are 100% accurate and unbiased. I'd argue instead that<BR>
   they merely reflect the "we're better than them" mindset that is<BR>
  *desirable* for a military unit.<BR>
<BR>
5. "Make work" can be unnecessary work. It can *also* be work that the<BR>
   *speaker* considers unecessary. Given that the basic idea *is* that<BR>
   folks *earn* their citizenship, I expect that a lot of jobs are done<BR>
   by hand that could be done by machines (example, the comment about<BR>
   Carmen winding up doing laundry or dishes (I forget which) in<BR>
   Antarctica).<BR>
<BR>
>         Leonard makes the claim that I have slurred those who disagree<BR>
> with me, including himself. I do not believe I have slurred anybody. I<BR>
> did say that there was a time in the past when I believed that folks<BR>
> who claimed that certain things are in the book, which in fact are not<BR>
> had a reading deficiency, or were comfortable with lying. It has been<BR>
> my experience in the past that folks who repeat things which aren't<BR>
> true are either mistaken or lying. If anybody believes that to be a<BR>
> slur, I apologize.<BR>
<BR>
It's possible to be mistaken *without* a reading deficiency. And the<BR>
way you wrote the statement was either a slur, or required too careful<BR>
of a reading to determine that it wasn't. ("too careful" in the sense<BR>
of "if this was a formal devate, *maybe* it'd be acceptable). <BR>
<BR>
>         Leonard makes the claim that my logic is flawed, and that I<BR>
> assume facts which are not in evidence. I have outlined some of my<BR>
> evidence toward the beginning of the post.<BR>
<BR>
Evidence based on assumptions I've addressed above.<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard would like me to<BR>
> quote, chapter and verse from the novel to support my contention. James<BR>
> Gifford has done a much better job than I could at this, and I<BR>
> previously referenced his essay in my post.<BR>
<BR>
And at least one of the sections he quotes chops off just before what I<BR>
recall as statements that would cast doubt upon his thesis.<BR>
<BR>
> I want to stress that I did<BR>
> not challenge anyone to "dig up" some essay, I provided a link to it,<BR>
> which seemed to be a much better option than cutting and pasting large<BR>
> swaths of it.<BR>
<BR>
See my post about what it took to get at the essay. Also, I'll<BR>
apologize again, because I'd read that section a bit quickly and<BR>
skipped the URL. Not everyone can just click on a URL to get there...<BR>
<BR>
>         Leonard's claim about my logic is that I only begin to reason<BR>
> after I make certain assumptions.<BR>
<BR>
No. I'm saying that certain assumptions get automatically included more<BR>
or less automatially. <BR>
 <BR>
> As I understand it, he is saying the<BR>
> there are plentiful examples of non-military Federal Service jobs in<BR>
> the book, and I am mistaken in assuming that these jobs are military in<BR>
> nature. The best example that he can come up with, a dishwasher, is<BR>
> ambiguous at best. It could be make-work, or it could be military<BR>
> support work, depending on the context.<BR>
<BR>
Or it could be support work for a *non*-miltary unit. And given that<BR>
*specific* mention was made of Antarctica, I'd say that considering it<BR>
"miltary support" is a bit of a reach.<BR>
<BR>
And that's the best I could come up with FROM MEMORY. Keep in mind that<BR>
I'm doing this without a copy of the book at hand!<BR>
<BR>
And I note that both you and Gifford suffer from circular reasoning.<BR>
"The job is military because all the jobs are military".<BR>
<BR>
>         I outlined earlier the view of the Federal Service institution<BR>
> that those who would be in a position to know (the characters in the<BR>
> book) seem to share. I simply read what Heinlein had them say, and came<BR>
> to my conclusion based on the web which was created between these<BR>
> examples.<BR>
<BR>
Ignoring the fact that since *all* of them (except Juan's father)<BR>
either were military or were attempting to join the military, their<BR>
views are apt to be less than objective. <BR>
<BR>
As for Juan's father, I think it's safe to say that he knew his son<BR>
well enough to be able to assume (correectly!) that Juan was going to<BR>
sign up for the military.<BR>
<BR>
>         Major Reid, an instructor in History and Moral Philosophy, is<BR>
> someone who would know the system better than Juan, his father, and a<BR>
> doctor at a recruiting center. Yet he appears to view Federal Service<BR>
> as military service as well. I'll let him speak for himself.<BR>
<BR>
And he was speaking to military officer candidates, to instill a<BR>
specific mindset in them.<BR>
<BR>
>         "And you have forgotten that in peacetime most veterans come<BR>
> from non-combatant auxiliary services and have not been subjected to<BR>
> the full rigors of military discipline; they have merely been harried,<BR>
> overworked and endangered -- yet their votes count."<BR>
<BR>
>         This passage is placed in the context of a discussion of why<BR>
> the Federation government is successful, and it is strongly suggested<BR>
> that the definition of "auxiliary" which Major Reid is operating under<BR>
> refers to auxiliaries to the military services.<BR>
<BR>
It only does so if you *assume* that it does so. Which is my whole<BR>
point about circular reasoning.<BR>
<BR>
>         The only assumption I make here is that the small number of<BR>
> non-military veterans are the make-work types which I've commented on<BR>
> previously. While that's an assumption, it doesn't seem to be an<BR>
> unreasonable one.<BR>
<BR>
Give the exact same quote, I see it as a *very* unreasonable<BR>
assumption. Because you are assuming that "auxillary" means "military<BR>
auxillary". And that assumptions is exactly the point you are claiming<BR>
to *prove* with the quote.<BR>
<BR>
>         "we require each person who wishes to exert control over the<BR>
> state to wager his own life -- and lose it, if need be -- to save the<BR>
> life of the state."<BR>
><BR>
>         This comment is nearly senseless if we imagine Major Reid to be<BR>
> talking about garbage collectors and the like. It makes some sense if<BR>
> we narrow things down to merely jobs which would be at least as<BR>
> dangerous as, or possible more dangerous than, service in the military.<BR>
<BR>
Or he's using hyperbole to get these potential officers thinking in a<BR>
specific manner.<BR>
<BR>
The idea that all the jobs are dangerous is refuted both by the<BR>
recruiting Sargeant and by other references (damn I wish my copy wasn't<BR>
buried in storage!). <BR>
<BR>
I'll grant that the non-military jobs appear to be hard and nasty.<BR>
Likely, as stated, so folks will remember that they had to *work* to<BR>
earn their citizenship.<BR>
<BR>
> Firefighters, who have dangerous jobs, might very well be included in<BR>
> such an interpretation of civil service. But, if that's the case, why<BR>
> would firefighter slots be filled only by those folks who were dumb and<BR>
> useless?<BR>
<BR>
They wouldn't be. I am *certain* that if you check the book, you'll<BR>
find an *explicit* statement to the effect that a person's list of<BR>
choices are compared against their skills, and if there's both a match,<BR>
and an available slot, that's where they are assigned.<BR>
<BR>
The "make work" stuff is for folks who either don't qualify for any of<BR>
their choices, or don't qualify well enough for the available slots.<BR>
<BR>
It's *also* explicitly stated that the MI is 100% volunteer, and I<BR>
suspect that most of the rest of the military is, for reasons given in<BR>
the book. That kinda mangles your arguments and Giffords as well.<BR>
<BR>
So the "dumb and useless" get jobs that will be hard & nasty (but<BR>
*doable*, if they work at it). More skilled folks who ask for them and<BR>
qualify will get other non-military jobs.<BR>
<BR>
>         It would require an unreasonable broadening of "auxiliary" to<BR>
> include all manner of dangerous civil service jobs. Further, such a<BR>
> broadening would make certain assumptions which have no support from<BR>
> the text, such as the assumption that the voting franchise was<BR>
> broadened at one point in the past to cover such civil servants.<BR>
<BR>
It's no more unreasonable than *narrowing* auxillary to mean *only*<BR>
militasry auxillary. We have no evidence that they are "auxillary" in<BR>
the sense of being part of the Federal Service.<BR>
<BR>
There's just not any evidence to allow making the decision. You have to<BR>
make an assumption either way. And the reasonableness of the assumption<BR>
depends on whether you use current usages or try to determine what<BR>
usages might be in effect in that very different culture.<BR>
<BR>
> Unfortunately, in the history lesson we are given, there is no evidence<BR>
> of this. Although the voting  franchise is mentioned, we are never told<BR>
> that it was broadened to include other types of civil servants.<BR>
<BR>
Given the "counting the fuzz on a caterpillar by touch" example, it's<BR>
pretty obvious that some of the jobs have no valid *military* support<BR>
role. What they all have in common is that they aren't easy.<BR>
<BR>
This fits well with the "earned their citizenship" comments.<BR>
<BR>
And it also shows that the franchise *must* have been broadened at some<BR>
point.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:44:57 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 19:30 -0400 13/10/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>
>>There won't be such exctremes onboard ship except in emergencies. And<BR>
>>during that sort of emergency, odds are that anything the cans do would<BR>
>>be pretty minor by comparison.<BR>
><BR>
> Agreed.<BR>
><BR>
> However, AFAIK most aerosols are only pressure tested to whatever a <BR>
> temperature of 60C creates. This is viewed as the highest likely shop <BR>
> window temperature with direct sun load as well. Testing is done in a <BR>
> waterbath and on 100% of units...<BR>
<BR>
And even so, I seem to recall warnings about use at high altitudes, or<BR>
carrying them on airliners. As I (vaguelly) recall, the airliner<BR>
problem is along the lines of them leaking messily all over your stuff.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:48:13 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>>>>What happens when local police are after a "most wanted" type<BR>
>>>>>who gets to the starport?  The security forces may be tempted to quietly<BR>
>>>>>hand the criminal over, or they may be coerced.<BR>
>>>>As for coercion, trying that on the starport is a *real* bad move. They<BR>
>>>>can express their displeasure in a lot of ways. From strip searches of<BR>
>>>>locals entering and leaving, to refusing to allow certain imports or<BR>
>>>>exports.<BR>
>>>Who said anything about coercion on the starport?  It's just that<BR>
>>>a few of the citizens who work there have been found to be guilty of<BR>
>>>disloyalty to the state.  Even if the senior administrators decide to<BR>
>>>spend the rest of their lives in a reeducation camp for causing<BR>
>>>trouble, there is no guarentee that the local rulers will mind if a <BR>
>>> few of their subjects are inconvenienced by the starport authority.  If<BR>
>>>the authority insists on seriously disrupting trade, then the local<BR>
>>>government will be the least of its problems.<BR>
>>If the situation doesn't fall under "quietly hand him over" then you<BR>
>>*are* coercing "the starport".<BR>
><BR>
>         I don't see how enforcing local law on criminals can be interpreted<BR>
>         as coercing the starport.  :)<BR>
<BR>
He's no longer in the local jurisdiction. <BR>
<BR>
>>>Even if security is brought in from off-world, they<BR>
>>>still have to live on-world (I do not envisage people living in the<BR>
>>>starport).  I do agree that security from off-world would be better,<BR>
>>>but I still see problems.<BR>
>>The port is a lot more than the landing pads and warehouses. There will<BR>
>>be hotels, bars and other entertainment, as well as (in many if not<BR>
>>most cases) housing for port personnel. <BR>
><BR>
>         Many starports IMTU are less well-equiped.<BR>
<BR>
Smaller ports will have the hotels replaced by something smaller. The<BR>
equivalent of an "inn" or some such.<BR>
<BR>
But I really don't see folks "just passing thru" wanting to live<BR>
outside the extrality line while waiting for their "connecting flight".<BR>
Ditto for someone who came to arrange a trade of imported goods for<BR>
local goods. He *could* stay outside the port, but unless the local<BR>
culture is a lot like "Imperial" culture, or his homeworld's, he'd be<BR>
more comfortable inside.<BR>
<BR>
A and B class ports should *definitely* be "self contained units" (ie<BR>
think small town or city). C are likely to be. D *might* be. E<BR>
definitely isn't. <BR>
<BR>
>>Keep in mind that *because* of extrality, things are much simpler for<BR>
>>*both* the port and the locals if transients stay on the port mosdt of<BR>
>>the time, and ditto for offworld personnel.<BR>
>>Not out of intolerance, but simply because it means fewer checkpoints<BR>
>>and less traffic thru the ones that exist.<BR>
>>On almost any world, there will be *something* worth smuggling in or<BR>
>>out. As well as local customs that might trip up offworlders. <BR>
><BR>
>         Yup.  But I would expect that it would be easier and cheeper to<BR>
>         recruit locals and let them live out of the starport. That is how <BR>
>         marine and air ports are run here on Terra.<BR>
<BR>
Airports are a bad example. And most larger airports *do* have hotels<BR>
built either as part of the facility or immediately adjacent.<BR>
<BR>
Also, consider plasces like Hong Kong and Macau. They were ports that<BR>
*did* have "extrality", and in a period when travel more closely<BR>
resembled Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
You can find other such "treaty ports". And you'll find that they<BR>
either included an existing town as part of the ceded territory, or<BR>
a town grew up around them in the territory. *Specifically* so as to<BR>
have housing, entertainment, etc *not* subject to the laws outside the<BR>
ceded territory.<BR>
<BR>
>         Not that the situation<BR>
>         is the same, but how many people want to live in a starport rather<BR>
>         than in a city.<BR>
<BR>
But that's my point, between transients and offworld staff, the port<BR>
*is* a city.<BR>
<BR>
>  Of course on some worlds this could be a big plus.<BR>
>         Beyond that, I have generally resisted putting too many facilities<BR>
>         in starports because it tends to reduce the variety that PC's face<BR>
>         from world to world.  I don't want them to be able to go drinking,<BR>
>         stay in a hotel, shop (at law level 0), etc. in every starport that<BR>
>         they stop at.<BR>
<BR>
Consider that it may be a lot cheaper to rent a room outside the port.<BR>
Just like it's a lot cheaper to rent a room from a local hotel in a<BR>
foreign country than from one that caters to tourists. Of course, you<BR>
quickly find out *why* it's cheaper... <eg><BR>
<BR>
And they are likely to want to go barhopping outside the port anyway if<BR>
there are even *rumors* of exotic native drinks/drugs/women/etc.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:00:58 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language....(slighty Long, sorry all)<BR>
<BR>
Thank you Kiri! I *try* to remember that everybody is different and each<BR>
person has their on *style* of posting. A *friend* gave me his copy of Win98<BR>
Second Edition when he upgraded (?) to Win 2000. It automagically upgraded<BR>
my Outlook Express to v.5, and that changed my settings.<BR>
OBTW, I now have a sticker *glued* to the bottom edge of my monitor's screen<BR>
that says, "If you're mad, wait 48 hours before you reply!". I took that<BR>
quote (I think) from something Rob Miracle posted as a guide line once<BR>
during one of the more intensive flame wars.<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of Rob...."*HEY ROB*"; I also really want to thank you for running<BR>
a *GREAT* list. I should have done that a long, long, time ago. I'm sorry<BR>
that I haven't Rob. When you're having a wonderful time you kinda' forget<BR>
these *little* things.<BR>
<BR>
I have two quotes that I keep in my "taglines.txt" that I want to pass on to<BR>
the list.....<BR>
<BR>
 I.) I don't have to attend every argument I'm invited to.<BR>
<BR>
II.) Wisdom has two parts:<BR>
    1) Having a lot to say<BR>
    2) And not saying it<BR>
<BR>
I honestly can't remember where I got those quotes, maybe right here. If so,<BR>
thanks to whoever posted them! I'm doing my best to live by those these<BR>
days. Sometimes it's a very tough job! :-)<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
P.S.<BR>
Sorry for stealing your * *'s again Leonard....Did you miss them?<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 2:00 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>
> On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Thom Harris wrote:<BR>
><BR>
> OK, Thom, I didn't actually think so and sorry if it sounded that way.  I<BR>
> may come off as slightly oversensitive because I was heavily flamed<BR>
> recently on a local Goth list for daring not to have an English-only<BR>
> computer.<BR>
><BR>
> LOL<BR>
><BR>
> Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 03:55:35 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
<BR>
> From: Paul Harris <paul.harris@dytech.com.au><BR>
> Subject: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
><BR>
> OK, in my pre-rebellion campaign the players will soon be meeting up<BR>
> with Dulinor, and in conversation they will here some of his beliefs<BR>
> about what the imperium should be.<BR>
<BR>
<stuff snipped><BR>
<BR>
Before I get to Dulinor, I want to paint my picture of what the Imperium's<BR>
traditional motivations are, and why they are the way they are.<BR>
<BR>
"The Imperium does not rule worlds, it rules the spaces between the worlds".<BR>
<BR>
This is at the core of the Third Imperium's theory of Imperium. As sophonts<BR>
tend to live on worlds, rather than between them, it means that the Imperium<BR>
does not see itself as ruling these sophonts.<BR>
<BR>
On one hand, this means the Imperium is owed no legal or feudal duties by<BR>
these sophonts. On the other hand, the Imperium has no legal or feudal<BR>
duties towards these sophonts either.<BR>
<BR>
Cleon Zhunatsu's genius was in realising that this formula (1) made a much<BR>
larger state possible than otherwise. It also made integrating other worlds<BR>
easier, as they would know that they would still have local control over<BR>
local affairs, which would mean the local elite would co-operate in<BR>
integration, as they would still run the show after integration.<BR>
<BR>
This formula also guaranteed no attempts by the central government to impose<BR>
cultural soveriegnty over member worlds- an important fact for the Vilani<BR>
remnants in and around Vland, who had bad memories of the attempted cultural<BR>
domination of the Solomani.<BR>
<BR>
That is the 'light side' (2) of the theory of Imperium. The dark side is<BR>
that the Imperium does not act to benefit the sophonts of the Imperium,<BR>
because to do so would be to assert rule over not the space between the<BR>
worlds, but of the worlds itself.<BR>
<BR>
Given the persistence of underdevelopment in the Imperium (3), this also<BR>
meant that many Imperial sophonts were going to have much worse lives than<BR>
otherwise.<BR>
<BR>
Dulinor thought that this doctrine of Imperium had passed it's use-by date.<BR>
The Imperium had expanded to it's natural frontiers- there were no more new<BR>
worlds to conquer. I believe either he, or his intellectuals, had examined<BR>
other theories of Imperium - the Zhodani do not seem to have the same fetish<BR>
towards non-intervention on member worlds, for example - and decided that<BR>
the central state can and should marshal the resources of the Imperium and<BR>
the member worlds to the benefit of all.<BR>
<BR>
This is a massive expansion in the scope of the Imperium. If the Imperium is<BR>
to spend on development, then at the end of the day these resources have to<BR>
be gained to taking wealth off those who have, in order to redistribute to<BR>
those who have not.<BR>
<BR>
It is probable that pro-Dulinor intellectuals would argue that the Imperium<BR>
could borrow the funds needed for development, repaying a generation later<BR>
from the expanded resources of the new, developed Imperium. This notion<BR>
would probably give the fanatically sound-money guardians of the Imperial<BR>
Credit in the Ministry of Finance fits.<BR>
<BR>
Those who have would also not be completely comfortable with the idea of<BR>
redistribution. The nobility and the megacorporations are the obvious losers<BR>
in this scheme, and they hold most of the levers of power.<BR>
<BR>
In Iliesh, Dulinor turned to the people as a counterweight to the<BR>
established interests. This would lead to the growth of class-conciousness,<BR>
and the rich would see Dulinor as fomenting faction and dissent. The growth<BR>
of political comment in the media would be especially uncomfortable,<BR>
especially as demagogues turned their rhetoric onto the priviledges of birth<BR>
and station.<BR>
<BR>
 What is even more of a concern to the established order is that, in Iliesh<BR>
at least, Dulinor's populism and demagogeury appears to have delivered that<BR>
which sound money, sound governance and sound thinking could not.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
(1) "This realisation made the older Zhunatsu Doctrine of integration<BR>
obsolete. The Zhunatsu Doctrine, also refered to as the Zhunatsu Method, was<BR>
basically designed to dissolve planetary power structures to allow easy<BR>
integration into the Sylean Federation. While successful in it's narrow aim<BR>
of making planets unable to resist integration, this liquidation of<BR>
structures often became uncontrolled and extended beyond the political<BR>
superstructure of a society into it's fundamental structures of industry,<BR>
education and transport. It is to the credit of Cleon Zhunatsu that he could<BR>
so completely abjure his old methods when they began to succeed too well. It<BR>
is hypothesised by Tamsin that these bad early experiences were a trigger<BR>
for the emphasis in the Imperial Rules of War to preventing long term social<BR>
or economic dislocation"; Dagaarski 'From Darkness to Light ; the<BR>
development of a Theory of Imperium in the later Sylean Federation'<BR>
Capital/Core 995<BR>
<BR>
(2) The Arkati among you can see this as the beneficial Dark Side, and the<BR>
next para as the Light side. Mother be praised, and She Who Waits be feared.<BR>
<BR>
(3) Given the number of low-tech underdeveloped worlds in the Imperium, it<BR>
has to be taken that crises in economic development are normal. The easiest<BR>
way to explain this is to accept for game purposes neo-Marxist development<BR>
theory, which basically says that development is only possible with a strong<BR>
state, using tariff barriers and tight control on trans-national<BR>
corporations. In the Third Imperium, the first element is possible. The<BR>
second and third surely aint. In conflicts between free-trading agriculture<BR>
and protectionist industry (eg the US Civil War, political struggles in<BR>
early 20thC Australia and Argentina etc), which side do you think the<BR>
Imperium and it's symbiotes, the Megacorporations, will be inclined to<BR>
support ?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3159<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Saturday, October 14 2000     Volume 1999 : Number 3160<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Starship Operators Manual<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Date (was Re: Dulinors Motivations)<BR>
Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
Pocket Empires<BR>
Atlas of the Imperium<BR>
Re: Date (was Re: Dulinors Motivations)<BR>
RE: Emergency<BR>
Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
New Filk: To Sit on the Throne<BR>
RE: Starship Operators Manual<BR>
Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein)<BR>
Artists (Was: RE: Heinlein (Long))<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Scotsmen with katanas, oh my<BR>
Re: Heinlein<BR>
Re: Pocket Empires<BR>
Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 00:03:48 +0200<BR>
From: "V.A.G" <volker@greimann.de><BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Operators Manual<BR>
<BR>
At 12:09 14.10.00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>I seem to recall there was supposed to be a Starship Operators Manual <BR>
>published once upon a time.  Did that ever happen and can anyone tell me <BR>
>if it just focuses on the ship operation or if it gets into the economic <BR>
>aspects?<BR>
Yup, this animal exists, and i am glad to own it, as it is excellent. It <BR>
describes the game details of operating a starship, i.e. as characters <BR>
would see it.<BR>
Sad thing is, only the first part on the Free Merchant was ever published, <BR>
no subsequent volumes did make it.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>  Also, was there ever a Starport Administrator's guide published?  I <BR>
> thought I recalled hearing something about that a few years ago, but <BR>
> haven't found any references.<BR>
Never saw it.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:26:38 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> It's hard to decide on internal evidence from the book itself,<BR>
>> which justifies all the military actions, from the unprovoked preemptive<BR>
> strike<BR>
>> barely above the level of terrorism, at the beginning of the book,<BR>
><BR>
> Er, are you referring here to the bugs destroying Buenos Aires ?<BR>
<BR>
No, I think he's referring to the opening of the book, when Rico is<BR>
involved in the drop on that Skinny planet.<BR>
<BR>
>> Finally, while Heinlein presents the idea of public, corporal punishment<BR>
> as<BR>
>> a ready corrective to many social ills, he either ignores or glosses over<BR>
>> the fact that such punishment has been banned in much of the Western world<BR>
>> because it was for the greater part of human history a tool of<BR>
>> oppression.<BR>
><BR>
> Public corporal pumishment was only used in the book for people convicted of<BR>
> military crimes.<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Jaun Rico mentions it being used for civilian crimes also. He<BR>
either snuck off to see a flogging in his home town or tried to sneak<BR>
off to see it.<BR>
<BR>
> Aso, public corporal punishment has _not_ been banned because it was a "tool<BR>
> of oppression" but because it is currently considered uncivilized, barbaric,<BR>
> and inhumane.<BR>
<BR>
I consider the big problem to be that unless and until you can convince<BR>
the person receiving it that they *deserve* it, that they did in fact,<BR>
do wrong, they aren't going to benefit from the punishment. Instead,<BR>
they'll just consider it unfair and want to get revenge.<BR>
<BR>
> Of course for some weird reason most people don't seem to consider locking<BR>
> people up in prisons where they can learn more criminal skills and be<BR>
> victimized by other criminals uncivilised, barbaric and inhumane.<BR>
<BR>
Well, given stuff I've heard in recent months about guards actually<BR>
arranging for prisoners to be raped by other prisoners to "teach them a<BR>
lesson", I think prisons need some massive changes. <BR>
<BR>
It's insane the the courts have ruled that a prisoner's "right to<BR>
privacy" means that surveilance cameras can't be installed to catch the<BR>
perps in assualts and the like. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 13:04:37 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> While we're at it, just what is illegal in a starport?  Presumably<BR>
> trying to blow up the starport, shooting Imperial personel, etc. <BR>
<BR>
Those are likely "Imperial" crimes.<BR>
<BR>
> I would expect that things like murdering, injuring or kidnapping<BR>
> sophonts; and destroying, damaging ot stealing property would be<BR>
> outlawed.  What about fraud?  Brawling?  What is allowed in<BR>
> self-defense?  Is there some kind of court in the starport?  How do<BR>
> criminals get punished?  I imagine that it is up to the local noble<BR>
> to judge those accused.  Comments, suggestions...?<BR>
<BR>
To function at all, there will have to be laws against damage to people<BR>
& property, as well as against theft.<BR>
<BR>
A minimal set of such would require paying for damages,<BR>
returning/replacing property, plus fines. I expect fines to be a *very*<BR>
big part of starport justice, simply because they are dealing with a<BR>
large transient population, and don't want to deal with a lot of long<BR>
term prisoners.<BR>
<BR>
Fraud could get interesting.  Because I can see the trade laws leaning<BR>
rather more towards "caveat emptor" (buyer beware!) than ours do. But<BR>
not overwhelmingly.<BR>
<BR>
If you buy a load of left-hand thread blivit nuts intending to export<BR>
them to Qwarm, and the Qwarmese have a law requiring anything with a<BR>
left hand thread to have been blessed by a priest of Murphy during the<BR>
thread cutting, you're out of luck.<BR>
<BR>
You might have grounds for a suit if the seller suggested selling them<BR>
on Qwarm. If it was your idea and you only mentioned it to him, he'd<BR>
only *maybe* be somewhat at fualt if you can convince the court that he<BR>
should have known about the law on Qwarm. <BR>
<BR>
Even then it might be touch and go. Under *our* laws, you'd have no<BR>
problem. But I can see the Imperium going for "You don't have to<BR>
volunteer information" since I get the impression that they tend to<BR>
lean a bit towards "survival of the fittest".<BR>
<BR>
Brawling? I expect that'd be a case of getting zapped by the cops,<BR>
stuck in a cell to sleep it off, and then having to pay for damages,<BR>
and pay a fine on top of that. The sort of thing that a ship's captain<BR>
can grumble about, but still get his crewbeings back in time for lift<BR>
off. <BR>
<BR>
Self-defense? I'd imagine that isn't much different than current laws.<BR>
You can't pull a knife on someone attacking you barehanded. You can't<BR>
pull a gun on someone with a knife. Etc.<BR>
<BR>
There *are* exceptions. If you can prove that the attacker was a<BR>
martial arts expert, you might get away with using a gun or knife. <BR>
<BR>
The port will *definitely* have a "trade court" for contract disputes<BR>
and other "trade-related" stuff.<BR>
<BR>
And, given that there will be humans around, there will be some sort of<BR>
criminal court. <BR>
<BR>
Given the Imperium's "economic" basis and the port's desire to not deal<BR>
with prisons", I'd be *real* careful about committing crimes against<BR>
people. Murder might wind up with you indentured to the deceased's<BR>
heirs for the rest of his expected lifespan.<BR>
<BR>
Something less serious, like loss of a limb might only get you<BR>
indentured for a period of years.<BR>
<BR>
Unfair? Maybe. But you aren't the *port's* problem anymore. :-)<BR>
<BR>
And keep in mind that given he Imperial laws about slavery, the<BR>
indenture is likely to be "merely" a much more annoying version of<BR>
having your wages garnished, combined with an advanced version of one<BR>
of those "house arrest" anklet transmitters.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 14:54:26 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> I agree with you on the "not into it" part but disagree with the shipping<BR>
> containers, etc. In almost all of the games I played in our cargo hold was<BR>
> full of speculation items on pallets, some containers that we picked up<BR>
> through shipping companies, vehicles, ad nauseum. We only had 60 tons on the<BR>
> old "Free Trader" available. On a number of occasions we left with almost<BR>
> nothing in the cargo hold (fleeing for our lives in some cases) because we<BR>
> were going on a "quest" or whatever. Our PC with the highest "steward" skill<BR>
> was our loadmaster. If we were contracting to one of the larger shipping<BR>
> lines we got containerized loads pretty much, but our GM rarely gave us this<BR>
> opportunity. I'm sure that it is different for each GM. Whatever they will<BR>
> allow you to *find* is what you haul.....<BR>
<BR>
True, but part of the reason for containers is to protect the cargo<BR>
against things like loss of pressure in the hold. <BR>
<BR>
That shipment of wine (or many spices) won't be worth a cent if it gets<BR>
exposed to vacuum.<BR>
<BR>
I expect that "knock down" containers are carried as a matter of<BR>
course on ships that do a lot of spec trading on worlds where<BR>
containers aren't readily available.<BR>
<BR>
And to addres a point somebody else brought up, while the ship has the<BR>
power to handle unbalanced loads, it's not a good idea to stow things<BR>
so that the ship is unbalanced, simply because it wastes power, and<BR>
makes the ship harder to control if you have to use manual controls. <BR>
<BR>
Furthermore, it limits your manueverability, because you won't be able<BR>
to turn as easily in some directions, even under computer control.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:10:34 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Date (was Re: Dulinors Motivations)<BR>
<BR>
Ian, you need to reset the date on the system you are using:<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 03:55:35 +1000<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 15:02:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
> Sorry Dom, I'm just using your post AND this thread as a vehicle for the<BR>
> following joke. I hope those that continue to read will enjoy this as much<BR>
> as I did. I am NOT a native New Englander but I have distributed this far<BR>
> and wide to all my friends here.<BR>
<BR>
> New Englanders & COLD Temps<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> -20 F, People in Miami cease to exist. New Englanders get out their winter<BR>
> coats.<BR>
<BR>
I was on a boy scout camping trip (in NE Washington state) and we later<BR>
learned it had gotten that cold. Only hassle was that I'd not brought<BR>
enough spare clothes and fell into a creek. <BR>
<BR>
> -80 F, Mount St. Helen's freezes. New Englanders rent some videos and stay<BR>
> home for the day.<BR>
<BR>
Mount St. Helens (note spelling :-) *is* frozen over. The lava dome in<BR>
the crater melts snow during most of the year, but I'm fairly sure even<BR>
it has now on it by now. The crater walls have year round snow.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:46:01 -0500<BR>
From: Charles McKnight <cmcknight01@home.com><BR>
Subject: Pocket Empires<BR>
<BR>
Is Pocket Empires out of print or can some kind soul direct me to where I <BR>
can order it?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
Charles McKnight<BR>
cmcknight01@home.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:16:36 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Atlas of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
Could anyone point me to where I might find Module 4: Atlas of the Imperium? <BR>
  I've looked at Titan Games, Noble Knight, and Gamer's Realm, but thy don't <BR>
have them.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:41:47<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Date (was Re: Dulinors Motivations)<BR>
<BR>
At 03:10 PM 10/14/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
>Ian, you need to reset the date on the system you are using:<BR>
><BR>
>> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 03:55:35 +1000<BR>
<BR>
Great Maker..<BR>
<BR>
Ian, quick, I need the winners of the Superbowl, the Stanley Cup, and the<BR>
NBA finals..<BR>
<BR>
ohboy, are we going to make a mint!<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:42:54<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Emergency<BR>
<BR>
At 10:40 AM 10/14/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
>Glad to hear that you're all right Jesse.<BR>
><BR>
>Obtrav:  Could this have been a Templar plot to deprive Jesse of his<BR>
>               chicken tenders and mozzarella sticks?  What secrets of the<BR>
>               conspiracy are you writing about now????<BR>
<BR>
I think he was just doing research for the GF cover (that thing is *awesome*)<BR>
<BR>
Recover soon, compadre.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:47:20<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
At 03:02 PM 10/14/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>Mount St. Helens (note spelling :-) *is* frozen over. The lava dome in<BR>
>the crater melts snow during most of the year, but I'm fairly sure even<BR>
>it has now on it by now. The crater walls have year round snow.<BR>
<BR>
A friend who is a USGS vulcanologist tells me that a glacier is forming in<BR>
the caldera.  Enough snow remains in shade year round that soon it might<BR>
start marching down the mountain.<BR>
<BR>
At least until the next time it blows up.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:06:40 +1300<BR>
From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
Bill wrote :<BR>
<BR>
> >Both the McLeod highlanders have used katanas since the<BR>
> >beginning of their tales (the first movie and the beginning of the<BR>
> >series) and only use other swords in flashback scenes.  Ramirez<BR>
> >might have had one, too, when he meets Connor.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >bloo<BR>
><BR>
> I may be mistaken. I believe Ramirez was using a katana when he first<BR>
> encountered McLeod. I think that Mcleod started using Ramnirez's<BR>
> katana after Ramirez was killed in the first movie.<BR>
<BR>
Correct, I have the DVD.<BR>
<BR>
Ramirez, at the time a Spanish nobleman but who was born Egyptian ( being<BR>
played by a Scotsman ) speaks about how the sword was made in Japan, and<BR>
even names it's creator, though I don't remember the exact name.<BR>
<BR>
It's the same katana that brings the "love interest" into the fray in the<BR>
modern period.<BR>
<BR>
Also interestng is that the wound made by the katana on the Kurgan's neck<BR>
just before Ramirez is killed by him never truly heals. There are still<BR>
'staples' holding his neck together when he meets Duncan in the present.<BR>
<BR>
Frankie<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:57:53 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
<BR>
From: Ian Whitchurch<BR>
> Cleon Zhunatsu's genius was in realising that this formula (1) made a<BR>
> much larger state possible than otherwise. It also made integrating other<BR>
> worlds easier, as they would know that they would still have local<BR>
> control over local affairs, which would mean the local elite would<BR>
> co-operate in integration, as they would still run the show after<BR>
> integration.<BR>
> <BR>
> This formula also guaranteed no attempts by the central government to<BR>
> impose cultural soveriegnty over member worlds- an important fact for the<BR>
> Vilani remnants in and around Vland, who had bad memories of the<BR>
> attempted cultural domination of the Solomani.<BR>
<BR>
Important, too, for Archduke Brzk and all the other Imperial Vargr, for the<BR>
Geonee, for the Vegans, for....<BR>
<BR>
Essentially, Dulinor's ideas would have scared a whole lot of people, and<BR>
not just the rich and powerful.  There are "intrusive" interstellar states<BR>
out there, and they include such charming places as the Solomani<BR>
Confederation.<BR>
<BR>
The basic problem is that whatever happened, Dulinor would have started a<BR>
civil war.  It might not have been as drastic as the Rebellion, but it<BR>
still would have been a war.<BR>
<BR>
> In Iliesh, Dulinor turned to the people as a counterweight to the<BR>
> established interests. This would lead to the growth of<BR>
> class-conciousness, and the rich would see Dulinor as fomenting faction<BR>
> and dissent. The growth of political comment in the media would be<BR>
> especially uncomfortable, especially as demagogues turned their rhetoric<BR>
> onto the priviledges of birth and station.<BR>
<BR>
This would be an interesting test for Dulinor.  I think that in this<BR>
situation he would tend to react like the privileged noble that he is, and<BR>
step on the demogogues.  In short, he is a populist, and not a democrat.  <BR>
<BR>
This is his basic problem I think:  he is torn between his authoritarian<BR>
instincts as a noble, while having to seek support amongst the rabble he<BR>
fears and mistrusts.  In the end, he falls between the two stools,<BR>
alienating many nobles without winning a compensating popular support base.<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 18:50:30<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: New Filk: To Sit on the Throne<BR>
<BR>
All this discussion of Dulinor's motivations gave me this idea.<BR>
<BR>
As an aside, one advantage of my new position as a dispatcher is that when<BR>
I get these ideas, I can write them down without having to worry about<BR>
crashing.  :)<BR>
<BR>
To Sit On the Throne<BR>
<BR>
ttto: "Man on the Moon", by REM<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Strephon sits on the Iridium Throne, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
Dulinor comes to the Octagon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
Four shots from a magnum and his work is done, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
He thinks he's finished but he missed one, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
Lucan escapes at great personal risk, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
Dulinor retreats to a capital ship, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
<BR>
Word is spreading out through the starlanes <BR>
Everyone is choosing up sides<BR>
Our world is shaking to pieces <BR>
Great Maker, Can this Empire die?<BR>
<BR>
There's some who believe, they should sit on the throne<BR>
(sit on the throne)<BR>
You must take this chance, your time is now, you're destined to rule<BR>
<BR>
Strephon came walking back from the dead, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
It wasn't me but a double instead. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
Margaret came forward to present her claim, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
Brzk withdrew his forces from the game, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
<BR>
Word is spreading out through the starlanes <BR>
Everyone is choosing up sides<BR>
Our world is shaking to pieces <BR>
Great Maker, Can this Empire die?<BR>
<BR>
There's some who believe, they should sit on the throne<BR>
(sit on the throne)<BR>
You must take this chance, your time is now, you're destined to rule<BR>
<BR>
Norris grabs for archducal rank, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
Aslan attacking the Imperium's flank, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
Duke Craig takes a neutral position, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
The Vilani hide behind their old traditions, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.<BR>
<BR>
Word is spreading out through the starlanes <BR>
Everyone is choosing up sides<BR>
Our world is shaking to pieces <BR>
Great Maker, Can this Empire die?<BR>
<BR>
There's some who believe, they should sit on the throne<BR>
(sit on the throne)<BR>
You must take this chance, your time is now, you're destined to rule<BR>
<BR>
There's some who believe, they should sit on the throne<BR>
(sit on the throne)<BR>
You must take this chance, your time is now, you're destined to rule<BR>
<BR>
There's some who believe, they should sit on the throne<BR>
(sit on the throne)<BR>
You must take this chance, your time is now, you're destined to rule<BR>
<BR>
There's some who believe, they should sit on the throne<BR>
(sit on the throne)<BR>
You must take this chance, your time is now, you're destined to rule<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"<BR>
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:09:34 -0400<BR>
From: "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Starship Operators Manual<BR>
<BR>
The Starship Operators Manual was published by DGP for Megatraveller (Making<BR>
it FORBIDDEN CANON [cue echo effect].) It is actually marked as Vol 1. As<BR>
far as I know no other volumes were ever published. It contains lots of<BR>
technical stuff that is of a controversial nature (at least on the TML.)<BR>
These includes the high yield jump drive power plant, lanthanum grid, the<BR>
jump governor, reactionless drives that do 25% thrust to the side (and up<BR>
and down) and 10% thrust forward, not to mention the sensors (which as I<BR>
understand it don't match the rules used by the game.) I don't how much of<BR>
this stuff is mentioned in regular GDW stuff or other sources.<BR>
<BR>
For Starport Authority stuff I recommend GT: Starports. It 's got lots of<BR>
background material and what rule specific stuff it's got is highly<BR>
modifiable, in my opinion. I would think that most of the starport<BR>
construction rules would work with other rule systems anyway. I mean once<BR>
the port is designed it's not like the PC's are going to interact with the<BR>
design mechanic after all. All they'll get is word descriptions. GT:SP also<BR>
fits very well with GT: Far Trader, which is another great general Traveller<BR>
source book in my opinion.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Terry C<BR>
All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>
Not all who travel are lost<BR>
<BR>
I seem to recall there was supposed to be a Starship Operators Manual<BR>
published once upon a time.  Did that ever happen and can anyone tell me if<BR>
it just focuses on the ship operation or if it gets into the economic<BR>
aspects?  Also, was there ever a Starport Administrator's guide<BR>
published?  I thought I recalled hearing something about that a few years<BR>
ago, but haven't found any references.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
Charles McKnight<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:19:42 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein)<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 00:13:58 -0700<BR>
> From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
> <BR>
> Also, you completely neglected the 2nd half of my argument.  I don't<BR>
> know when he started making statements about what he "really" meant to<BR>
> say in ST, but if as, I suspect, it was a number of years after the<BR>
> novel was written, then rethinking and changing attitudes could have a<BR>
> great deal to do with what he said about the novel vs what he actually<BR>
> wrote in it. <BR>
<BR>
And in this particular case, we have a definite, unambiguous example of<BR>
how an author's view of his own book can be factually inaccurate -- the<BR>
claim in _Expanded Universe_ that the 95% nonmilitary nature of Federal<BR>
Service is stated explicitly several times in ST, when in fact the text as<BR>
published doesn't contain anything of the sort, even once.  If Heinlein<BR>
can make a categorically inaccurate assertion about the text itself, how<BR>
necessarily accurate should we consider his reconstruction of intentions<BR>
and motivations to be?  (And of course the same applies to any author's<BR>
analysis of her own work, two decades down the line.) <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:28:06 -0400<BR>
From: Thom Jones-Low <tjoneslo@together.net><BR>
Subject: Artists (Was: RE: Heinlein (Long))<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> > For that matter, I'm pretty sure Michelangelo would have been knocked<BR>
> > down by just about any citizen of Rome, but does that meant that he<BR>
> > should have practiced his fencing instead of carving "David"?<BR>
> <BR>
> Yes. What use is a statue if you're dead ?<BR>
> <BR>
> I have nothing against art, in fact I quite like it, but assuming that it<BR>
> somehow takes precedence over survival is bloody stupid IMO.<BR>
> <BR>
> For _any_ artist you care to name, I would rather they lived and enjoyed<BR>
> their life than created their artworks.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
	My problem with this statement is all artist I know, including my wife,<BR>
derive their enjoyment from life by creating their art. Deny an artist<BR>
their ability to create because "they need to get a life" and you<BR>
condemn them to misery. <BR>
<BR>
	You may be correct, survival should take precedence over art. But our<BR>
existence should be more than just about survival. And the best example<BR>
of our ascendance over simple survival is our ability to create art. <BR>
- -- <BR>
    Thomas Jones-Low<BR>
    tjoneslo@together.net<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 01:36:17 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
<BR>
> You were asking about starport administration.  There is an article on<BR>
the<BR>
> Starport Authority in, I think, JTAS #20.  Maybe it's #18.<BR>
<BR>
Split the difference... its #19 :)<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 19:44:19 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Scotsmen with katanas, oh my<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 10:43:59 -0400<BR>
> From: Mark Urbin <urbin@bigfoot.com><BR>
> <BR>
> For those of you who haven't seen the latest Highlander movie, here is a<BR>
> non-spoiler summary:  "Scotsmen lobbing off heads." <BR>
<BR>
Dang, now you've ruined it for me!  I do love the "There can be only<BR>
one...well, one or two, maybe...three is *right* *out*" premise. :)<BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav: Multi-culturalism.  One of my favorite examples is from H. Beam <BR>
> Piper's "Uller Uprising",  Colonel Hideyoshi O'Leary.<BR>
<BR>
Let's not forget Hiro Protagonist and Buckaroo Banzai.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:01:18 -0700 (PDT)<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein<BR>
<BR>
> Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 20:39:05 -0400<BR>
> From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
> <BR>
> Did you by any chance take some Pomona College English classes when you<BR>
> were studying at HMC, Craig?  (If I'm confusing you with someone else, I<BR>
> apologize, but I remember SOMEONE recently mentioning being a Mudder,<BR>
> and ISTR it being you...) <BR>
<BR>
It's me, and yes, I took quite a few English classes at Pomona.  I<BR>
actually took classes at every one of the five colleges, which was a lot<BR>
of fun.  Especially Scripps. :)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
   |   Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>
 --*--  "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>
   |<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:29:10 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Pocket Empires<BR>
<BR>
Charles McKnight wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> Is Pocket Empires out of print or can some kind soul direct me to where I<BR>
> can order it?<BR>
<BR>
It is indeed out of print, as is the rest of the Imperium Games line.<BR>
<BR>
I don't have any good leads on used copies of PE (www.titangames.com<BR>
doesn't list it in stock).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>
least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>
your unit."<BR>
<BR>
     -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>
magazine of preventive maintenance<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:27:13 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure  Re: <BR>
>off-topic games<BR>
>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:47:20<BR>
><snipped><BR>
>A friend who is a USGS vulcanologist tells me that a glacier is forming in<BR>
>the caldera.  Enough snow remains in shade year round that soon it might<BR>
>start marching down the mountain.<BR>
><BR>
>At least until the next time it blows up.<BR>
<BR>
Doesn't the formation of a caldera mean that the magma chamber's empty and <BR>
that the volcano can never erupt again?<BR>
<BR>
ObTraveller: Three words: PCs and volcanoes...<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, October 15 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3161<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Atlas of the Imperium, Pocket Empires and other OOP Traveller stuff<BR>
Multiculturalism<BR>
Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein)<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein)<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
Re: Scotsmen with katanas, oh my<BR>
One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
St. Helens extinct?<BR>
Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
Revenant class heavy fighter<BR>
Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Artists (Was: RE: Heinlein (Long))<BR>
re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
RE: Starship Operators Manual<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:48:13 -0300<BR>
From: "Ronaldo Fernandes" <ron.fernandes@ig.com.br><BR>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium, Pocket Empires and other OOP Traveller stuff<BR>
<BR>
I would recomend e-Bay auctions. They usually carry a large (+150) selection<BR>
of Traveller items at anytime. Pocket Empires is quite easy to obtain there,<BR>
while Atlas of the Imperium is kind of difficult. To obtain a list, go to<BR>
e-Bay www.e-bay.com and select the search engine. Use traveller as the<BR>
keyword in Bags & Toys section. Good luck!<BR>
<BR>
Ronaldo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Mensagem Original-----<BR>
De: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Para: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Enviada em: Sbado, Outubro 14, 2000 21:16<BR>
Assunto: Atlas of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Could anyone point me to where I might find Module 4: Atlas of the<BR>
Imperium?<BR>
>   I've looked at Titan Games, Noble Knight, and Gamer's Realm, but thy<BR>
don't<BR>
> have them.<BR>
><BR>
> Thanks.<BR>
><BR>
> -J. Jensen<BR>
> _________________________________________________________________________<BR>
> Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
><BR>
> Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>
> http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 20:48:14 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Multiculturalism<BR>
<BR>
From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> ObTrav: Multi-culturalism.  One of my favorite examples is from H. Beam<BR>
Piper's "Uller Uprising",  Colonel Hideyoshi O'Leary.<BR>
>><BR>
LOL!  I haven't read that, but is he a relative of mine by any chance?<BR>
<BR>
>Let's not forget Hiro Protagonist and Buckaroo Banzai.<BR>
><BR>
Hiro Protagonist was actually Chinese and Black.  My friend Chizuko is<BR>
married to a Black man and their kids are going to grow up to be stunners...<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 00:55:13 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/14/00 10:20:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, <BR>
cberry@cinenet.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
> And in this particular case, we have a definite, unambiguous example of<BR>
>  how an author's view of his own book can be factually inaccurate -- the<BR>
>  claim in _Expanded Universe_ that the 95% nonmilitary nature of Federal<BR>
>  Service is stated explicitly several times in ST, when in fact the text as<BR>
>  published doesn't contain anything of the sort, even once.  If Heinlein<BR>
>  can make a categorically inaccurate assertion about the text itself, how<BR>
>  necessarily accurate should we consider his reconstruction of intentions<BR>
>  and motivations to be?  (And of course the same applies to any author's<BR>
>  analysis of her own work, two decades down the line.) <BR>
<BR>
Factual inaccuracies are one thing, we all make them.  Speculation about<BR>
an author's intentions is something else entirely.  I still maintain that it<BR>
is arrogant in the extreme to claim to have knowledge about a person's<BR>
intentions that is superior to that person's knowledge about his own<BR>
intentions.  Not impossible, but in most cases highly improbable, and<BR>
you'd better have pretty strong supporting evidence before I'll buy a word<BR>
of it.<BR>
<BR>
(As you can probably tell, I have little use for much modern lit-crit.)<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 00:17:31 -0500<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>
>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>>Even if security is brought in from off-world, they<BR>
>>>still have to live on-world (I do not envisage people living in the<BR>
>>>starport).  I do agree that security from off-world would be better,<BR>
>>>but I still see problems.<BR>
>>The port is a lot more than the landing pads and warehouses. There<BR>
will<BR>
>>be hotels, bars and other entertainment, as well as (in many if not<BR>
>>most cases) housing for port personnel.<BR>
><BR>
>        Many starports IMTU are less well-equiped.<BR>
><BR>
>>Keep in mind that *because* of extrality, things are much simpler for<BR>
>>*both* the port and the locals if transients stay on the port mosdt of<BR>
<BR>
>>the time, and ditto for offworld personnel.<BR>
>>Not out of intolerance, but simply because it means fewer checkpoints<BR>
>>and less traffic thru the ones that exist.<BR>
>>On almost any world, there will be *something* worth smuggling in or<BR>
>>out. As well as local customs that might trip up offworlders.<BR>
><BR>
>        Yup.  But I would expect that it would be easier and cheeper to<BR>
<BR>
>        recruit locals and let them live out of the starport.  That is<BR>
how<BR>
>        marine and air ports are run here on Terra.  Not that the<BR>
situation<BR>
>        is the same, but how many people want to live in a starport<BR>
rather<BR>
>        than in a city.  Of course on some worlds this could be a big<BR>
plus.<BR>
>        Beyond that, I have generally resisted putting too many<BR>
facilities<BR>
>        in starports because it tends to reduce the variety that PC's<BR>
face<BR>
>        from world to world.  I don't want them to be able to go<BR>
drinking,<BR>
>        stay in a hotel, shop (at law level 0), etc. in every starport<BR>
that<BR>
>        they stop at.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Some airports now have hotels on the property, but I would use US<BR>
overseas military bases as an example, important people for running the<BR>
base are brought in and housed on base, but most laborers are locals<BR>
that cross the line each day.<BR>
<BR>
Ficilities on base will be adiquite, but nothing exciting.  All the<BR>
exciting places to visit would be off base.  If the players try to stay<BR>
on base at each planetfall, then you should STRESS that they are gitting<BR>
bored of the same industrial design and lack of entertainment (I have<BR>
never had this problem, but my players have always bordered on the<BR>
criminal)<BR>
<BR>
Charles H<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:11:58 -0700<BR>
From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein)<BR>
<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com <JFZeigler@aol.com><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>cberry@cinenet.net writes:<BR>
><BR>
>Factual inaccuracies are one thing, we all make them.<BR>
><BR>
Sure.  And I also don't mind having people point out factual inconsistencies<BR>
in my work-- I have friends who do this with my zine stuff, and that's what<BR>
editors are for.  We try and eliminate those, but...<BR>
<BR>
>Speculation about an author's intentions is something else entirely.  I<BR>
still maintain that it is arrogant in the extreme to claim to have knowledge<BR>
about a person's intentions that is superior to that person's knowledge<BR>
about his own intentions.  Not impossible, but in most cases highly<BR>
improbable, and you'd better have pretty strong supporting evidence before<BR>
I'll buy a word of it.<BR>
><BR>
Arrogant, disrespectful, and damn close to calling the author a liar.<BR>
<BR>
>(As you can probably tell, I have little use for much modern lit-crit.)<BR>
><BR>
It's pretty useless imnsho.  Of course, these are also the people who don't<BR>
care if a book is actually enjoyable, forgetting that the books which have<BR>
come down to us as classics from the past have come down to us because<BR>
people cared enough about them and liked them enough to keep them alive.<BR>
<BR>
I am willing to bet that a great deal of what's called "littriture" today<BR>
won't be around a hundred years in the future.  The books that people really<BR>
loved will be around.  From a critical standpoint it may or may not be<BR>
terrible, but _Gone With the Wind_, to name an example, is going to be<BR>
around.<BR>
<BR>
I am really fond of some literary books and others leave me completely cold.<BR>
But I choose my reading material on what I perceive to be its own merits...<BR>
does it keep my attention, engage my emotions and intellect, inflame my<BR>
imagination?  Or is it booooooooooooooooooring...?<BR>
<BR>
Then again, my favorite book of all time is The Pillow Book of Sei<BR>
Shounagon... which is NOT a sex manual!<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  ^_^<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:16:35 EDT<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
I suppose it's not much use making this reply, since Mr. Seamans has<BR>
expressed a desire to opt out of any further discussion on this topic, but<BR>
I may as well clarify:<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 10/14/00 6:44:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, semo@pil.net <BR>
writes:<BR>
<BR>
> Since militaries, in times of<BR>
>  peace, may focus their resources on something other than warfare I'm not<BR>
>  sure that I see any substantial disagreement, I haven't really said <BR>
anything<BR>
>  to the contrary.<BR>
<BR>
In point of fact, I was agreeing with Mr. Seamans on this and other points.<BR>
I don't consider his reference to the Gifford essay to have been anything<BR>
but wholly accurate and to the point.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Jon makes the claim that I am "arrogant in the extreme" because I've claimed<BR>
> that Heinlein "was 'wrong' about some aspect of his own creation".<BR>
<BR>
I did not make any such claim.  For some reason I don't have a copy of<BR>
the e-mail in which I made the statement about arrogance, but I believe<BR>
that it was a general statement, not intended to apply to Mr. Seamans.<BR>
If he read it as applying to him, I apologize.<BR>
<BR>
The worst I accuse Mr. Seamans of is a complete and utter lack of<BR>
tact.  One does not advance arguments by making statements implying<BR>
that the people one disagrees with have reading deficiencies or are<BR>
habitual liars (or that they are arrogant, for that matter :-).  One advances<BR>
arguments by presenting evidence and presuming that one's opponents<BR>
are capable of weighing it on their own.  If they are not, then it's their<BR>
loss.<BR>
<BR>
I *do* consider divination about an author's *intentions*, contrary to<BR>
plausible evidence from the author himself, to be rather arrogant, but as<BR>
I recall neither Mr. Seamans nor Mr. Gifford have engaged in any such<BR>
witchery.<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 05:04:57 +0100<BR>
From: "Matthew Bond" <mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Leonard Erickson" <shadow@krypton.rain.com><BR>
> > Aso, public corporal punishment has _not_ been banned because it was<BR>
a "tool<BR>
> > of oppression" but because it is currently considered uncivilized,<BR>
barbaric,<BR>
> > and inhumane.<BR>
><BR>
> I consider the big problem to be that unless and until you can<BR>
convince<BR>
> the person receiving it that they *deserve* it, that they did in fact,<BR>
> do wrong, they aren't going to benefit from the punishment. Instead,<BR>
> they'll just consider it unfair and want to get revenge.<BR>
<BR>
??????????<BR>
<BR>
So locking someone up in prison without *convincing* them they did wrong<BR>
*won't* make them feel it is unfair and want revenge?<BR>
<BR>
Most corporal punishment is over in a few minutes [ok, a few days for<BR>
the wounds to heal...], prison sentences last months to years.<BR>
<BR>
And people can be just as psychologically scarred [if not more so] by<BR>
prison than a flogging.<BR>
<BR>
It's also a lot cheaper...<BR>
<BR>
Matt<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 02:47:26 -0400<BR>
From: "James Fleming" <blackjack@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Scotsmen with katanas, oh my<BR>
<BR>
Craig Berry writes:<BR>
><BR>
> Dang, now you've ruined it for me!  I do love the "There can be only<BR>
> one...well, one or two, maybe...three is *right* *out*" premise. :)<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
This reminds me of a story told at a Fangoria convention some years ago by<BR>
the director/writer of the first Highlander, Russell Mucalhy, IIRC.  When<BR>
the second movie was being made the company sent him a script out of<BR>
courtesy, but he declined to read it, thinking correctly that no good would<BR>
come of a sequel.  Later on a friend came to visit and saw said script<BR>
laying around and asked Russell if he could read it.  He said it was okay as<BR>
long as he didn't tell him anything about the story.  A couple days later,<BR>
he gets a call from his friend saying "Why didn't you tell me they were<BR>
aliens!?" Which prompted him into an, in my opinion, justifiable rage.<BR>
<BR>
Jim "Wasn't very fond of the sequel, even with Michael Ironside" Fleming<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 00:27:48 -0700<BR>
From: Kristian Miller <travellerne@3rd-imperium.com><BR>
Subject: One Year Anniversary MiniCon - San Jose Traveller Meet!<BR>
<BR>
Hi All,<BR>
<BR>
The San Jose Traveller Gamers will next meet on November 18 AND 19.<BR>
We will start Saturday at 11:00 a.m. and end Sunday about 4:00 p.m.<BR>
<BR>
Featured Events: <BR>
	Mongo Rebellion/Operation Big Battle (Striker): on the big<BR>
		gaming table with the new terrain covering.  This <BR>
		may be the final BIG battle.  Ming's Internal <BR>
		Security Police will be involved; rumors that nukes<BR>
		WILL be thrown; and, maybe even Imperial intervention.<BR>
	Operation RSSP: Glenn Goffin's MegaTraveller campaign.<BR>
	Operation Low Tek: Luther Martin's requested Tech Level 5<BR>
		Striker game.<BR>
	San Jose Traveller Groups One Year Anniversary Barbecue!<BR>
		Cooking by a renown Vilani chef AND lots of <BR>
		cranberry juice.<BR>
<BR>
Location:  Kristian Miller's place near I-680 & Highway 101.<BR>
	Email travellerne@3rd-imperium.com for directions.<BR>
<BR>
For information email:<BR>
travellerne@3rd-imperium.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 03:03:11 -0500<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>I'll retract "general civil service". But I still maintain that the<BR>
>majority of the jobs aren't military and are not necessarily "military<BR>
>support" either.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I agree. when I first read the book, I got  the impression that most of<BR>
the jobs were non-military. "And you have forgotten that in peacetime<BR>
most veterans come from non-combat auxiliary services and have not been<BR>
subjected to the full rigors of military discipline;..."<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>But here are some assumptions that could make a *major* difference:<BR>
><BR>
>1. that "civilian" as used by Juan Rico and others in the military<BR>
>   denotes people who are not in Federal Service, rather than merely<BR>
>   people who are not in the military (the latter being the standard<BR>
>   usage)<BR>
><BR>
>2. "Labor battalion" *is* a military term. But it does *not* have to<BR>
>   refer to a military unit.<BR>
<BR>
The way I interpeted Federal Service jobs were to teach the same things<BR>
as the military: team work, disipline, and mainly responsibility.<BR>
Therefore they may have set them up in a military fashion rather than a<BR>
corporate or civil service fashion.<BR>
"A term of service isn't a kiddie camp; it's either real military<BR>
service, rough and dangerous even in peacetime... or a most unreasonable<BR>
facsimile thereof."<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>3. "Federal Service is equivalent to military service." That statement<BR>
>   in and of itself points out that Federal Service *isn't* military<BR>
>   service. "Nasty, hard work" and "miltary" are *not* the same thing.<BR>
><BR>
>4. That statements made by members of the miltary regarding the rest of<BR>
<BR>
>   Federal Service to other members of the military, (or to potential<BR>
>   recruits) are 100% accurate and unbiased. I'd argue instead that<BR>
>   they merely reflect the "we're better than them" mindset that is<BR>
>  *desirable* for a military unit.<BR>
><BR>
>5. "Make work" can be unnecessary work. It can *also* be work that the<BR>
>   *speaker* considers unecessary. Given that the basic idea *is* that<BR>
>   folks *earn* their citizenship, I expect that a lot of jobs are done<BR>
<BR>
>   by hand that could be done by machines (example, the comment about<BR>
>   Carmen winding up doing laundry or dishes (I forget which) in<BR>
>   Antarctica).<BR>
<BR>
such as "...digging tunnels on Luna...", "...a laborer in the<BR>
Terranizing of Venus..."  these are jobs that should be done with<BR>
equipment but are probibly done by hand, and are non-military.<BR>
<BR>
As to previous comments by others that the society is facisist, I don't<BR>
see it as facisist, BUT the most likely way for this government to fail<BR>
is to turn facisist. IMHO<BR>
<BR>
Charles H<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 04:34:35 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
<BR>
>>A friend who is a USGS vulcanologist tells me that a glacier is forming in<BR>
>>the caldera.  Enough snow remains in shade year round that soon it might<BR>
>>start marching down the mountain.<BR>
>><BR>
>>At least until the next time it blows up.<BR>
><BR>
>Doesn't the formation of a caldera mean that the magma chamber's empty and <BR>
>that the volcano can never erupt again?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
 Er. Not that I ever heard. An empty magma chamber is hardly a safe thing. <BR>
You want it full and cooling into nice safe COLD HARD rock.<BR>
<BR>
 As for the deep supplies of magma being exhausted, that's rather unlikely as <BR>
well. Unless the plate currently subducting under the North America Plate <BR>
decides to change direction, or the Pacific Plate pushes it far enough north <BR>
that it no longer dives under Mt. St. Helens (and that'll be a looong time <BR>
from now, since it's still subducting under Shasta...) that supply can't <BR>
exhaust. It might redirect, but that just means that one of the other <BR>
Cascades volcanos will ruin your day instead of St. Helens, or that you'll <BR>
get an entirely new volcano to ruin your day.<BR>
 The only truly extinct volcano is one that has had its supplies cut off for <BR>
many thousands of years and has cooled to its core. Everything else is just <BR>
"Dormant" to one degree or another...<BR>
<BR>
>ObTraveller: Three words: PCs and volcanoes...<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
See my last...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:38:09 +1000<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
Subject: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
<BR>
I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some others<BR>
out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into their<BR>
games?<BR>
<BR>
- - Michael<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:53:03 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Revenant class heavy fighter<BR>
<BR>
As a companion to my recently posted TNE version (designed using FFS1) of<BR>
the Tigress class I present the Revenant class heavy fighter carried by the<BR>
dreadnought.<BR>
<BR>
Like the Tigress you can find the Revenant by following the links on my site<BR>
through the Alston League pocket empires and Alston League Order of Battle.<BR>
<BR>
Start at www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:13:06 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>><snipped><BR>
>>A friend who is a USGS vulcanologist tells me that a glacier is forming in<BR>
>>the caldera.  Enough snow remains in shade year round that soon it might<BR>
>>start marching down the mountain.<BR>
>><BR>
>>At least until the next time it blows up.<BR>
><BR>
> Doesn't the formation of a caldera mean that the magma chamber's empty and <BR>
> that the volcano can never erupt again?<BR>
<BR>
Not with the type of volcano found in the Cascade range. <BR>
<BR>
Unlike Hawaiian volcanoes, Cascade volcanos have low water content<BR>
lavas. Which means they aren't very fluid. <BR>
<BR>
That's why a typical eruption in Hawaii has a pool of lava in the<BR>
crater that rises and overflows. And a typical eruption in the Cascades<BR>
has the mountian bulging slowly and then, when the rock fails, blows<BR>
the top off the volcano. Just like St. Helens. <BR>
<BR>
The remaining lava in the chamber is slowly building a lava dome, which<BR>
will eventually fill the crater. BTW, the dome on Mt. Hood is clearly<BR>
visible (a formation known as "Goat Rocks") and is still warm enough in<BR>
places to melt snow in mid winter. There are also hot springs on Mt.<BR>
Hood (but much lower down). <BR>
<BR>
> ObTraveller: Three words: PCs and volcanoes...<BR>
<BR>
I wish I had a copy of the tape a former housemate made during the news<BR>
coverage of Mt. St. Helens. Some scary stuff there. <BR>
<BR>
A pilot and friend where either just about to overfly the volcano, or<BR>
had just done so when it exploded. They were *just* far enough away to<BR>
survive. His passenger got some rather spectacular footage of the ash<BR>
cloud trying to catch up with them.<BR>
<BR>
The footage from Yakima (100 or 200 miles downwind), with the<BR>
streetlights on at noon, and it looking like a night shot of a<BR>
*blizzard*. Ash drifts *yards* deep. And the fun of trying to keep the<BR>
air filters on the snowplows clear as try trying to clear the roads.<BR>
<BR>
Dust masks being everyday wear in Portland the few times the wind blew<BR>
from the North. And discovering that the Class 10,000(?) clean rooms at<BR>
the plant where I was working weren't as well sealed as they were<BR>
supposed to be. My shift was lucky. We noted the ash starting to shift<BR>
in from somewhere just before we got off shift. When we came back the<BR>
next day, they just finished sealing the leaks and cleaning the room.<BR>
Broke our hearts to have missed all that. :-)<BR>
<BR>
The air filter problem won't be as bad in Traveller, since air rafts<BR>
and the like don't use air breathing engines. Even so, a lot of the<BR>
rest will be just as bad. <BR>
<BR>
Have a party of PCs get into the same situation as that plane could be<BR>
interesting. If the blast catches them, it'll swat them out of the sky.<BR>
If they are a bit farther away, their external sensor and radios won't<BR>
work. After all, in a mile of ash cloud, there was probably the<BR>
equivalent of a few cm of rock. And most sensors and radios don't work<BR>
very well thru that much rock. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Or maybe they'll be on the ground and try to dig in. Several observers<BR>
*died* trying that on St. Helens. They were found later in their cars.<BR>
Dead of asphyxiation. The ash buried the cars, and 3-6 feet of ash<BR>
doesn't let air in. <BR>
<BR>
If they hadn't suffocated, they'd have baked. The ash that close to the<BR>
volcano was still pretty warm. Warm enough to make the cars unlivable<BR>
even *with* air. <BR>
<BR>
It's a minor miracle that the film one guy shot survived. He was<BR>
*directly* in the path of the ashflow. And had an autowind camera. He's<BR>
the one who shot the series of still that show the side bulging and<BR>
then breaking apart into the pyroclastic flow. <BR>
<BR>
I suspect he knew he'd never get out of it alive, given how long he<BR>
kept shooting. He shot the film, stuck it in the car, and drove the car<BR>
behind the ridge he was on before the ashfall made driving impossible. <BR>
<BR>
But by doing that, the film survived and they were able to find the<BR>
car. That's a dedicated scientist. <BR>
<BR>
And while it may be a bit morbid, he'd make an excellent NPC researcher<BR>
to stick the PCs with.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 23:41:02 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Artists (Was: RE: Heinlein (Long))<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> For that matter, I'm pretty sure Michelangelo would have been knocked<BR>
>>> down by just about any citizen of Rome, but does that meant that he<BR>
>>> should have practiced his fencing instead of carving "David"?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> Yes. What use is a statue if you're dead ?<BR>
>> <BR>
>> I have nothing against art, in fact I quite like it, but assuming that it<BR>
>> somehow takes precedence over survival is bloody stupid IMO.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> For _any_ artist you care to name, I would rather they lived and enjoyed<BR>
>> their life than created their artworks.<BR>
>> <BR>
><BR>
>         My problem with this statement is all artist I know, including my wife,<BR>
> derive their enjoyment from life by creating their art. Deny an artist<BR>
> their ability to create because "they need to get a life" and you<BR>
> condemn them to misery. <BR>
><BR>
>         You may be correct, survival should take precedence over art. But our<BR>
> existence should be more than just about survival. And the best example<BR>
> of our ascendance over simple survival is our ability to create art. <BR>
<BR>
The whole point of having *society* rather than small family groups is<BR>
that doing so enables some people to worry about stuff *beyond* "mere<BR>
survival". <BR>
<BR>
I have no problem with that. I *do* have a problem when some of the<BR>
"beyond survival" folks start acting like the folks who enable them to<BR>
worry about other things are unimportant, or worse yet somehow<BR>
deserving of contempt for *not* working on "more important" things. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:48:47 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
At 17:05 -0400 14/10/00,  "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net> wrote:<BR>
>Sorry Dom, I'm just using your post AND this thread as a vehicle for the<BR>
>following joke. I hope those that continue to read will enjoy this as much<BR>
>as I did. I am NOT a native New Englander but I have distributed this far<BR>
>and wide to all my friends here.<BR>
<BR>
;-) Funny post ;-)<BR>
<BR>
At least it suggests that two people read my post and it didn't get <BR>
accidently crisped in the regular ST flamefest.<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:45:01 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
At 13:29 -0400 14/10/00, Steve Daniels <stevedaniels@portcaddo.com> wrote:<BR>
> > Both the main characters are *very* old katana using Scotsmen.<BR>
><BR>
>Both the McLeod highlanders have used katanas since the<BR>
>beginning of their tales (the first movie and the beginning of the<BR>
>series) and only use other swords in flashback scenes.  Ramirez<BR>
>might have had one, too, when he meets Connor.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Highlander 1's katana was Ramirez' blade, if memory serves me right. <BR>
ISTR that it wasn't actually Japanese though, or used different <BR>
construction methods which is why the female lead (Brenda?) was <BR>
chasing after McLeod.<BR>
<BR>
Highlander Movies >1 are an abomination and should be destroyed ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:54:30 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
<BR>
At 17:05 -0400 14/10/00, "Katharine Whitchurch" <BR>
<katts@globalfreeway.com.au> wrote:<BR>
>(1) "This realisation made the older Zhunatsu Doctrine of integration<BR>
>obsolete. The Zhunatsu Doctrine, also refered to as the Zhunatsu Method, was<BR>
>basically designed to dissolve planetary power structures to allow easy<BR>
>integration into the Sylean Federation. While successful in it's narrow aim<BR>
>of making planets unable to resist integration, this liquidation of<BR>
>structures often became uncontrolled and extended beyond the political<BR>
>superstructure of a society into it's fundamental structures of industry,<BR>
>education and transport. It is to the credit of Cleon Zhunatsu that he could<BR>
>so completely abjure his old methods when they began to succeed too well. It<BR>
>is hypothesised by Tamsin that these bad early experiences were a trigger<BR>
>for the emphasis in the Imperial Rules of War to preventing long term social<BR>
>or economic dislocation"; Dagaarski 'From Darkness to Light ; the<BR>
>development of a Theory of Imperium in the later Sylean Federation'<BR>
>Capital/Core 995<BR>
><BR>
>(2) The Arkati among you can see this as the beneficial Dark Side, and the<BR>
>next para as the Light side. Mother be praised, and She Who Waits be feared.<BR>
<BR>
Considering the comments of (1) in the light of (2) surely the <BR>
response should be to nod sagely and state "There is always another <BR>
way"?<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:04:25 +0100<BR>
From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Starship Operators Manual<BR>
<BR>
At 23:27 -0400 14/10/00, "Terry Carlino" <carlino@home.com> wrote:<BR>
>The Starship Operators Manual was published by DGP for Megatraveller (Making<BR>
>it FORBIDDEN CANON [cue echo effect].) It is actually marked as Vol 1. As<BR>
>far as I know no other volumes were ever published. It contains lots of<BR>
>technical stuff that is of a controversial nature (at least on the TML.)<BR>
>These includes the high yield jump drive power plant, lanthanum grid, the<BR>
>jump governor, reactionless drives that do 25% thrust to the side (and up<BR>
>and down) and 10% thrust forward, not to mention the sensors (which as I<BR>
>understand it don't match the rules used by the game.) I don't how much of<BR>
>this stuff is mentioned in regular GDW stuff or other sources.<BR>
<BR>
jump governors are in CT (Book 5 first ed, Mission on Mithril, <BR>
Twilight's Peak IIRC).<BR>
<BR>
Marc's Jumpspace article  mentions a network of wiring within the ship hull.<BR>
<BR>
IIRC governors allow the drive to be run at lower efficiencies (eg a <BR>
J2 drive runs at J1 and only uses J1 fuel as opposed to running at J1 <BR>
and using J2 fuel).<BR>
<BR>
Dom<BR>
<BR>
- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>
"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>
can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>
http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com   http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3161<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, October 15 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3162<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Lugudar (ED-12) class escort destroyer<BR>
Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!  etc<BR>
Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Atlas of the Imperium<BR>
RE: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision! (OFF topic  span)<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Thanks!<BR>
Re: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3160<BR>
Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein)<BR>
RE: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Heinlein (and Gifford's essay thereon)<BR>
RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:02:30 +0800<BR>
From: "Antony Farrell" <Skaran@bigpond.com><BR>
Subject: Lugudar (ED-12) class escort destroyer<BR>
<BR>
In a continuing effort to bring people ships for game systems no longer in<BR>
production I present for the universes edification the TNE (FFS1) versions<BR>
of the Estoc (ED-11) and Lugudar (ED-12) classes of escort destroyer.<BR>
<BR>
As per usual you can find the ships by following the links on my site<BR>
through the Alston League pocket empires and Alston League Order of Battle.<BR>
<BR>
Start at www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR>
<BR>
Antony<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 05:03:03<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
<BR>
At 08:38 AM 10/15/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
>I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some others<BR>
>out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into their<BR>
>games?<BR>
<BR>
Jurrasic Park.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 05:08:51<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
At 10:27 PM 10/14/2000 CDT, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>At least until the next time it blows up.<BR>
><BR>
>Doesn't the formation of a caldera mean that the magma chamber's empty and <BR>
>that the volcano can never erupt again?<BR>
<BR>
Nope, as Leonard pointedout, those types of volcanoes just keep rebuilding<BR>
themselves.<BR>
<BR>
It is of interest to point out that the caldera of St. H already has a<BR>
noticeable lava dome, which is growing...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:09:09 +1000<BR>
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
Subject: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!  etc<BR>
<BR>
> From: Leonard Erickson<BR>
> The air filter problem won't be as bad in Traveller, since air rafts<BR>
> and the like don't use air breathing engines. Even so, a lot of the<BR>
> rest will be just as bad. <BR>
<BR>
Well, _some_ air/rafts do.  The cheap ones that use MHD turbines, rather<BR>
than fusion plants.  These exist in TNE, and one or two of them have popped<BR>
out of my head for Striker...  What can I say?  They cost a fifth of the<BR>
price!  <BR>
<BR>
And no one specified that they had to be volcano-proof.<BR>
<BR>
(Sulks.  Pouts.  Mutters about Vilani over-engineering.  And people wonder<BR>
why the Imperial economy is such a mess when people insist on everything<BR>
being gold-plated.  What we need is a good Volks-air/raft, etc...)  <BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley<BR>
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:02:23 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
Was asked:<BR>
<BR>
>> Doesn't the formation of a caldera mean that the magma chamber's empty<BR>
and<BR>
>> that the volcano can never erupt again?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
No, not always.  A good example of multiple calderas more or less<BR>
superimposed is the Valles Caldera in the Jemez Mts. of Northern New Mexico,<BR>
USA.  It consists of a least two calderas several miles in diameter, the<BR>
second larger caldera is partially superiposed on the first.  There is an<BR>
excellent USGS map of it available or at least there was a few years back<BR>
when I bought it.  If I remember correctly it has an excellent explaination<BR>
of the history complete with cross sections.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>Not with the type of volcano found in the Cascade range.<BR>
><BR>
>Unlike Hawaiian volcanoes, Cascade volcanos have low water content<BR>
>lavas. Which means they aren't very fluid.<BR>
><BR>
>That's why a typical eruption in Hawaii has a pool of lava in the<BR>
>crater that rises and overflows. And a typical eruption in the Cascades<BR>
>has the mountian bulging slowly and then, when the rock fails, blows<BR>
>the top off the volcano. Just like St. Helens.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm currently employed as a hydrogeologist/environmental geologist working<BR>
in carbonate terrenes.   Translation, I deal with water and contaminants<BR>
moving through Florida limestones.  I am thus not a volcanologist, but my<BR>
memory of course work in physical geology and the petrology of igneous rock,<BR>
taken far more years ago than I would like to admit, is that there is a much<BR>
more fundamental geochemical difference between the two types of magma<BR>
described.  The theory I remember is that the Hawaiian Island's magna comes<BR>
from rising plume of magna sourced very deep while those such as Mt. St.<BR>
Helen are sourced in magna created from the melting of subducting<BR>
continental crust.<BR>
<BR>
D.C. Phelps, Professional Geologist, FL # 1204<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:33:11 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>Airports are a bad example. And most larger airports *do* have hotels<BR>
>built either as part of the facility or immediately adjacent.<BR>
><BR>
>Also, consider plasces like Hong Kong and Macau. They were ports that<BR>
>*did* have "extrality", and in a period when travel more closely<BR>
>resembled Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
My two centavos:<BR>
<BR>
I must agree and there is a further wrinkle.  Picture a planetary or even a<BR>
local government on a Balkanized world which, upon coming to power, creates<BR>
a significant number of political refugees.  They flee to the star port as a<BR>
safe haven, shades of Casablanca in the varying hues of your choice.<BR>
Starport police try to keep them out and a few suicide in front of them.<BR>
Check your history, it happened on the Swiss border in WWII.  Lots of<BR>
desperate people, lots of intrigue and lots plot hooks.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
- --<BR>
>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 03:20:29 +0100<BR>
From: "Ben Aaronovitch" <bem@imaginaryfilms.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
Heinlein was (sometimes) a much subtler writer than many people (even his fans)<BR>
give him credit for. I've read Starship Troopers a number of times and several<BR>
things jump out at me...<BR>
<BR>
Rico is an unreliable narrator, not only is he completely ignorant of any wider<BR>
context but he's proud of it.<BR>
<BR>
Heinlein makes several explicit references to fascism in the book, the reference<BR>
to Catharge in the first Moral Philosophy class and a later reference to the<BR>
'rod and the axe' (the fasces from whence the term derives) in a later class.<BR>
<BR>
There were reserved professions for military veterens, the only one mentioned<BR>
was Police.<BR>
<BR>
It was also a profound anti-racist statement. Rico is a fillipino who has<BR>
Tagalog as his mother tongue. Not only was RAH ahead of just about everyone<BR>
(this is the late 50s remember) in his portrayal of non-whites but he also very<BR>
cleverly with holds this information until the very end of the book so that the<BR>
reader (generally a white American) has completely identified with the character<BR>
before this is sprung on him. I've just read it again and no where is it<BR>
specified that Rico was born or grew up in the US. He trained in the US and<BR>
Canada (and Luna) but then so did all those Germans.<BR>
<BR>
Heinlein was also thinking of WW2 when he wrote this book - a war fought by<BR>
'average joes' with an age average in their late 20s, this is where Rico's<BR>
father comes in. 'Dad wouldn't make the mistakes I did.'<BR>
<BR>
(My parents who were of the generation that fought in WW2 were card carrying<BR>
communists but they were still proud of the role the British military played in<BR>
the US (my mum was a WAAF). IMHO it is difficult for the post-Vietnam generation<BR>
to understand the mindset of those times.)<BR>
<BR>
IMHO I think RAH was perfectly aware that what he was describing was an<BR>
ideological-authoritarian state. The History and Moral Philosophy classes are<BR>
taught as if there is a scientifically provable history (a characteristic of<BR>
communist states) in which only one view point is valid. The citizenry is<BR>
unarmed and disenfranchised. I strongly doubt that Heinlein believed that this<BR>
was a 'good' society, let alone a utopia.<BR>
<BR>
I strongly suspect that he was being ironic.<BR>
<BR>
Ben<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
'Let's be honest here - you paid for the women.'<BR>
                                       Bill Murrey - Scrooged<BR>
> In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
> >>Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 23:12:07 +1300<BR>
> >>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> >><BR>
> >>On 12 Oct 2000, at 1:17, DaveShayne wrote:<BR>
> >><BR>
> >>> >Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 09:21:23 PST<BR>
> >>> >From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
><BR>
> Why am I listed here? None of the quoted material is from me?<BR>
><BR>
> >>> But since that franchise is limited to honorably discharged<BR>
> >>> veterans of the military it would tend to take on the charecter of<BR>
> >>> a fascist state.<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> All this does is make it an oligarchy. I'm at a loss as to why<BR>
> >> citizen's having undergone military (though not all do military<BR>
> >> service) make them into fascists. Many classical nations required<BR>
> >> military service from their citizens, and they weren't fascists, so<BR>
> >> presumeably it's the requirement to serve first that causes this<BR>
> >> transformation.<BR>
> ><BR>
> > And that service can be terminated by the government before completion<BR>
> > thereby denying entrance to the ruling elite.<BR>
><BR>
> Yes, but that *isn't* occurring. If it was, you'd have a point (and as<BR>
> I noted in my reply to another message, you are way off base about the<BR>
> guy who got courtmartialed for striking a superior officer)<BR>
><BR>
> Sorry, but your arguments make it rather clear that you are bound and<BR>
> determined to twist things to justify calling the society "fascist".<BR>
><BR>
> So I'm just going skip any more posts on this topic by you.<BR>
><BR>
> --<BR>
> Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
>  shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
> leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:32:03 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>
>>>>>>The security forces may be tempted to quietly<BR>
>>>>>>hand the criminal over, or they may be coerced.<BR>
>>>>>As for coercion, trying that on the starport is a *real* bad move.<BR>
>>>>Who said anything about coercion on the starport?  It's just that<BR>
>>>>a few of the citizens who work there have been found to be guilty of<BR>
>>>>disloyalty to the state.<BR>
>>>If the situation doesn't fall under "quietly hand him over" then you<BR>
>>>*are* coercing "the starport".<BR>
>>I don't see how enforcing local law on criminals can be interpreted<BR>
>>as coercing the starport.  :)<BR>
>He's no longer in the local jurisdiction. <BR>
<BR>
        The criminal in question is the sophont who happens to work<BR>
        for the starport.  The fact that this sophont recently had custody<BR>
        of a fugitive in the starport and did not return this fugitive to the<BR>
        planetary authorities in no way influenced the decision of the<BR>
        planetary authorities to arrest his family (as per local law) for<BR>
        his crime of disloyalty to the state.<BR>
<BR>
>>>The port is a lot more than the landing pads and warehouses. There will<BR>
>>>be hotels, bars and other entertainment, as well as (in many if not<BR>
>>>most cases) housing for port personnel. <BR>
>>Many starports IMTU are less well-equiped.<BR>
>Smaller ports will have the hotels replaced by something smaller. The<BR>
>equivalent of an "inn" or some such.<BR>
<BR>
        IYTU.<BR>
<BR>
>But I really don't see folks "just passing thru" wanting to live<BR>
>outside the extrality line while waiting for their "connecting flight".<BR>
>Ditto for someone who came to arrange a trade of imported goods for<BR>
>local goods. He *could* stay outside the port, but unless the local<BR>
>culture is a lot like "Imperial" culture, or his homeworld's, he'd be<BR>
>more comfortable inside.<BR>
<BR>
        Certainly, but are there enough people passing through like<BR>
        this to support a hotel?  I would argue yes on some worlds,<BR>
        no on others.<BR>
<BR>
>A and B class ports should *definitely* be "self contained units" (ie<BR>
>think small town or city). C are likely to be. D *might* be. E<BR>
>definitely isn't. <BR>
<BR>
        That is one way of approaching it.<BR>
<BR>
>>Yup.  But I would expect that it would be easier and cheeper to<BR>
>>recruit locals and let them live out of the starport. That is how <BR>
>>marine and air ports are run here on Terra.<BR>
>Airports are a bad example.<BR>
<BR>
        As I pointed out in the part that you snipped out:<BR>
<BR>
        "Yup.  But I would expect that it would be easier and cheeper to<BR>
        recruit locals and let them live out of the starport.  That is how <BR>
        marine and air ports are run here on Terra.  Not that the situation<BR>
        is the same, but how many people want to live in a starport rather<BR>
        than in a city."<BR>
<BR>
>And most larger airports *do* have hotels<BR>
>built either as part of the facility or immediately adjacent.<BR>
<BR>
        Exactly.  Part of the facility or immediately adjascent, but how<BR>
        many are accessable to passengers without going through<BR>
        security (and customs for international flights)?<BR>
<BR>
>Also, consider plasces like Hong Kong and Macau. They were ports that<BR>
>*did* have "extrality", and in a period when travel more closely<BR>
>resembled Traveller.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
        I am sure that there are many exceptions to any rule on how<BR>
        starports are run.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:54:30 -0500<BR>
From: Charles McKnight <cmcknight01@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Atlas of the Imperium<BR>
<BR>
I believe it will be reissued in the Classic Traveller Reprints series in <BR>
the Modules volume.  Not sure on the publishing date, but you might drop <BR>
Marc a note asking about that.<BR>
<BR>
Charles McKnight<BR>
cmcknight01@home.com<BR>
<BR>
At 07:16 PM 10/14/00 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>Could anyone point me to where I might find Module 4: Atlas of the <BR>
>Imperium?  I've looked at Titan Games, Noble Knight, and Gamer's Realm, <BR>
>but thy don't have them.<BR>
><BR>
>Thanks.<BR>
><BR>
>-J. Jensen<BR>
>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
><BR>
>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:09:56 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision! (OFF topic  span)<BR>
<BR>
Richard, I understand your concerns, but the entire article is<BR>
irrelevant to me - it does not affect me and there is nothing I could<BR>
do about it since I do not live in the US. Please don't post such<BR>
things to the TML.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> >X-Apparently-To: rtwilson2@yahoo.com via web9503.mail.yahoo.com<BR>
> >X-Track: -20<BR>
> >From: "Privacy News Update"<BR>
> <owner-privacy-news@defendyourprivacy.com><BR>
> >To: <privacy-news@defendyourprivacy.com><BR>
> >Subject: ALERT: Help stop secret searches provision!<BR>
> >Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2000 05:41:25 -0400<BR>
> >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0)<BR>
> >Importance: Normal<BR>
> >Sender: owner-privacy-news@defendyourprivacy.com<BR>
> >Reply-To: owner-privacy-news@defendyourprivacy.com<BR>
> ><BR>
> >============================<BR>
> >         PRIVACY NEWS UPDATE<BR>
> >============================<BR>
> ><BR>
> >         You are receiving this update because you registered<BR>
> >at DefendYourPrivacy.com, the site that was instrumental in<BR>
> >killing the FDIC's Know Your Customer regulation last year.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:52:27 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Charles Hensley writes:<BR>
>Some airports now have hotels on the property, but I would use US<BR>
>overseas military bases as an example, important people for running the<BR>
>base are brought in and housed on base, but most laborers are locals<BR>
>that cross the line each day.<BR>
<snipped><BR>
<BR>
        This is a reasonable model, and the one that I am leaning towards.<BR>
        Of course, the difference is that a starport is a civilian facility in<BR>
        the sense that it exists to allow civilians access to starships.<BR>
        This means that a busy starport has many civilians coming and<BR>
        going daily, so there will be a demand for small stores, bars,<BR>
        restaurants, perhaps a duty-free shop.  A small hotel might be<BR>
        found in some, but more often such facilities (along with <BR>
        vehicle rental, etc.) would be found outside of the extrality.<BR>
        I guess that senior administrators and starport security would<BR>
        be organized at the subsector level and personel would be<BR>
        transfered about as required.  Such personel would be housed<BR>
        in the extrality while the bulk of employees would be locals<BR>
        living nearby.<BR>
<BR>
Peez<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:53:33 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Thanks!<BR>
<BR>
> All the people at GDW who<BR>
>  created this universe did a fantastic job and showed incredible<BR>
>  imagination.<BR>
<BR>
It has been a while since anyone said that in so many words, and I (for one) <BR>
find it as stimulating as ever. <BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:04:34 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>  As for the deep supplies of magma being exhausted, that's rather<BR>
> unlikely as well. Unless the plate currently subducting under the<BR>
> North America Plate decides to change direction, or the Pacific Plate<BR>
> pushes it far enough north that it no longer dives under Mt. St.<BR>
> Helens (and that'll be a looong time from now, since it's still<BR>
> subducting under Shasta...) that supply can't exhaust. It might<BR>
> redirect, but that just means that one of the other Cascades volcanos<BR>
> will ruin your day instead of St. Helens, or that you'll get an<BR>
> entirely new volcano to ruin your day.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah. Mt. Hood makes the news occasionally because it gives off some<BR>
funny "rumbles". That plus the "warm rocks" and the hot springs mean<BR>
that the geologists keep an eye on it. <BR>
<BR>
So far it would appear that the cinder cone in the middle of Portland<BR>
(Mt. Tabor) is "really" dead.<BR>
<BR>
But I hear Mt. Ranier has folks up in Washington somewhat nervous. And<BR>
you folks down in California have Long Valley to worry about.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: What would be *really* "fun" is the "third type" of eruption. I<BR>
forget what they call it, but basicly huge cracks open up and massive<BR>
lava flows cover the land for hundreds of miles. <BR>
<BR>
One such event is responsible for Craters of the Moon national monument<BR>
in Idaho, and for the hundreds to thousands of feet thick basalt layers<BR>
that cover central and eastern Oregon & Washington. <BR>
<BR>
*That* sort of "eruption" would make a good approximation of hell. And<BR>
dealing with a colony that was too close to one would be rather<BR>
interesting... <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:17:17 EDT<BR>
From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3160<BR>
<BR>
> > ObTrav: Multi-culturalism.  One of my favorite examples is from H. Beam <BR>
>  > Piper's "Uller Uprising",  Colonel Hideyoshi O'Leary.<BR>
>  <BR>
>  Let's not forget Hiro Protagonist and Buckaroo Banzai.<BR>
<BR>
ISTC we named a character in an early adventure "Stosh" Nagoya<BR>
<BR>
LKW<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:55:46 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein)<BR>
<BR>
Kiri wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>I am willing to bet that a great deal of what's called "littriture" today<BR>
>won't be around a hundred years in the future.  The books that people really<BR>
>loved will be around.<BR>
<BR>
 I was thinking this just last night, as I noticed that of the two superchain <BR>
bookstores (Borders and B&N) one distinguishes between "Fiction" and <BR>
"Literature" and the other does not...<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: returning to the "cosmopolitan Imperium" thoughts of some months ago, <BR>
there will be literary works which are recognized (if not loved) throughout <BR>
the Imperium, but the majority will be local phenomena. Your works are much <BR>
more likely to spread if you have a fan among the professors and/or <BR>
librarians at the closest Imperial-accredited Universities...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:07 +0100 (BST)<BR>
From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
In-Reply-To: <01JVD5OUY04S00B2I7@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
Greetings dear hearts.<BR>
<BR>
I have several patterns of starport and which is in operation on a given <BR>
planet depends on many factors.<BR>
<BR>
The base concept is of a 'compound' - part of this is for Health & Safety <BR>
reasons, you don't want people scuttling around where spaceships are <BR>
taking off :-) You also have the security aspects: starship captains DO <BR>
NOT like stowaways, valuable cargoes are being shipped in and out and so <BR>
on.<BR>
<BR>
Then the 'government' stuff kicks in. The planetary government may wish to <BR>
impose import/export taxes, it may wish to restrict who may come in (or go <BR>
out), even if it's quite free and easy they probably want to know WHO is <BR>
coming in... even if it is Imperial Law that an Imperium citizen may <BR>
travel unhindered, he still has to prove that he is one before he is let <BR>
in. Any of these mean that you need stringent access controls. If the <BR>
planetary government chooses to restrict, e.g., weapons ownership, or has <BR>
a long list of illegal substances or whatever; then there will need to be <BR>
control and checks to ensure that anything you don't want planetside does <BR>
not get there. Perhaps, like the government of Egypt, there is a law <BR>
prohibiting the export of archaelogical artifacts, so you need to check <BR>
outgoing passengers to ensure that they are not taking anything away you <BR>
don't want them to.<BR>
<BR>
It's likely that even the smallest starport will have some kind of a <BR>
transient hostel for spacehands, even if there isn't anything worthy of <BR>
the name of 'hotel'. Fancier places will congregate in the area if not <BR>
within the compound itself. The less technologically-advanced planets that <BR>
still attract interstellar trade (perhaps as an 'unspoiled resort' or <BR>
source of some natural resource) are likely to attract major Imperial <BR>
hotel chains to build establishments, which are likely to be guarded <BR>
compounds in themselves, even if not within the starport precincts.<BR>
<BR>
As for the starport employees, it is likely - especially on the low-tech <BR>
worlds - that many will be brought in from elsewhere. Like most people, <BR>
they'll want to live near to work, and have access to the creature <BR>
comforts to which they are used. There may be space reserved for them <BR>
within the wider starport precincts or they may establish their own <BR>
enclaves.<BR>
<BR>
And planetary laws? That will depend on who actually owns and runs the <BR>
starport. Some will have been established by the Imperium, especially if <BR>
you envisage some kind of overarching organisation that controls and <BR>
administers interplanetary trade (Interstellar Trade and Transportation <BR>
Commission in my universe: does everything from selling navigation tapes <BR>
to examine you for your starship master's licence to check that your <BR>
spacesuits are being serviced according to the rules). Then while they <BR>
will respect local law, anything too extreme (like religious-based laws) <BR>
will not be accommodated, although anyone leaving the starport proper will <BR>
be warned about what the local laws and customs require.<BR>
<BR>
Fugitives from justice: if they have broken planetary law and manage <BR>
(somehow) to get into the starport it will depend on what they did. If <BR>
it's something generally accepted as bad - e.g. a murder - they probably <BR>
get handed back by starport security. Someone breaking Imperial law will <BR>
be hunted down even if they go off into the planet proper, with local <BR>
police being co-opted to assist.<BR>
<BR>
A few thoughts...<BR>
<BR>
Hugs and kisses,<BR>
<BR>
Mexal.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:17:41 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (and Gifford's essay thereon)<BR>
<BR>
On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> By the time I wrote that line, I'd already deleted the reference to the<BR>
> Gifford article, and hadn't paid attention to the link. Later, seeing<BR>
> it quoted in another message, I did check it out. Which involved:<BR>
> <BR>
> 1. I had to switch to the 486 that the main modem is on.<BR>
<BR>
Snip  <BR>
<BR>
> 14. shut down a couple of programs to get enough free memory<BR>
>     (out of 128 meg!) to run Acrobat Reader.<BR>
> <BR>
> *Then* I could read it...<BR>
> <BR>
> What was that about the web making things easy?<BR>
<BR>
Well, Leonard, if you didn't have quite such a balkanized system<BR>
there, it is actually rather easy...Goldberg isn't actually a good systems<BR>
design model to follow for real-world applications.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, what you should keep an eye out for is an old Shiva netmodem;<BR>
then any system that can attach to a network can dial out on it. ISTR it<BR>
comes with Mac, Dos, and Windows drivers. There's also a multi-port<BR>
version that allows you to attach up to eight modems (of any speed) to it.<BR>
<BR>
As it's old technology by now, there ought to be ones floating about in<BR>
the surplus world out there. Maybe you could trade your old washtub-sized<BR>
hard drive for it ;-)<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:33:15 +0100<BR>
From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
You are correct and are awarded the order of the Carrot. Now, for an<BR>
extra prize, can you think of anything in the first film that wasn't<BR>
totally ignored in the dreadfull second?<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bill<BR>
> Sent: 14 October 2000 17:04<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: Re: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> >Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>
> ><BR>
> >> >.  Or didn't you notice that Morgan is not the name of any old<BR>
> >>samurai clans?<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> For those of you who haven't seen the latest Highlander<BR>
> movie, here is a<BR>
> >> non-spoiler summary:<BR>
> >> "Scotsmen lobbing off heads."<BR>
> >><BR>
> >> Both the main characters are *very* old katana using Scotsmen.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Both the McLeod highlanders have used katanas since the<BR>
> >beginning of their tales (the first movie and the beginning of the<BR>
> >series) and only use other swords in flashback scenes.  Ramirez<BR>
> >might have had one, too, when he meets Connor.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >bloo<BR>
><BR>
> I may be mistaken. I believe Ramirez was using a katana<BR>
> when he first<BR>
> encountered McLeod. I think that Mcleod started using Ramnirez's<BR>
> katana after Ramirez was killed in the first movie.<BR>
><BR>
> I think... Perhaps a review of the movie is in order<BR>
><BR>
> Bill<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:26:29 GMT<BR>
From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>
Subject: RE: Andromeda/Starship Troopers<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:  What subjects spark off similar impassioned debates on the 3I<BR>
version of the Net?  The Psionics Suppressions /  Zhodani intentions?<BR>
Who killed Dulinor (GT timeline, obviously)?  Are Vargr and Dolphins<BR>
Solomani?  Are there really pirates out on the Imperial fringes, or<BR>
are they largely an invention of the holovision networks (<g>)?<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 17:21:02 +1300<BR>
>From: "Frank G. Pitt" <frankie@mundens.gen.nz><BR>
<BR>
>That's just laughable.<BR>
><BR>
>All I have to do to defeat your argument is tell you to talk to Doug Berry<BR>
>on this list.<BR>
>He has been through just such training.<BR>
<BR>
Doug has been through Mobile Infantry training?  I'm impressed...<BR>
<BR>
>The _only_ 'rights' that non-citizens in "Starship Troopers" are deprived of<BR>
>are the 'right' to vote, and the 'right' to hold public office.<BR>
<BR>
In other words, the right to decide what laws everybody in society,<BR>
citizen and non-citizen alike, must follow.  If you don't have that<BR>
right, then you don't have *any* rights - you can only depend on the<BR>
goodwill or inertia of those in power.<BR>
<BR>
>Nope, in fact, selfess service to the state is actively discouraged.<BR>
>It means the state has to find you something to do.<BR>
<BR>
I read that more as "the State" puts obstacles in people's way to weed<BR>
out those who aren't truly committed.  They may put on a show of<BR>
discouraging people from volunteering for federal service, but once<BR>
they do volunteer they're delighted.<BR>
<BR>
>Nope, you could also get the franchise acting as a janitor or cook, or<BR>
>watching a meterorogical station.<BR>
<BR>
Others have covered this better than I could - but to borrow a line<BR>
from someone else, a state which gives the franchise to all military<BR>
veterans but would deny it to a doctor who spent his/her life in the<BR>
slums healing sick children, has a very different system of values to<BR>
my own.<BR>
<BR>
Stephen<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3162<BR>
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<HTML><FONT  BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #3163</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" BACK="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
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Traveller-digest      Sunday, October 15 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3163<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
Re: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!  etc<BR>
RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
Re: Cost-effective air/rafts <BR>
New PBEM Starting<BR>
Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
Re: New PBEM Starting<BR>
Re: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
Re: Text. Mostly.<BR>
Re: Terrorists<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Starport Administration<BR>
Short films<BR>
Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
GF Cover (was RE: Emergency)<BR>
RE: Emergency<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 10:46:54 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>
<BR>
On Sat, 14 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I wish I had a copy of the tape a former housemate made during the news<BR>
> coverage of Mt. St. Helens. Some scary stuff there. <BR>
<BR>
You can get excerpts from the MSH Vistors center archives, I'll bet; or<BR>
they could tell you where you could find them. They have a LOT of video<BR>
running there, as well as stills and newspaper clippings.<BR>
 <BR>
> A pilot and friend where either just about to overfly the volcano, or<BR>
> had just done so when it exploded. They were *just* far enough away to<BR>
> survive. His passenger got some rather spectacular footage of the ash<BR>
> cloud trying to catch up with them.<BR>
<BR>
Yeah that is some scary footage!<BR>
<BR>
> Have a party of PCs get into the same situation as that plane could be<BR>
> interesting. If the blast catches them, it'll swat them out of the sky.<BR>
> If they are a bit farther away, their external sensor and radios won't<BR>
> work. After all, in a mile of ash cloud, there was probably the<BR>
> equivalent of a few cm of rock. And most sensors and radios don't work<BR>
> very well thru that much rock. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Besides, all the static and lightning generated by all that ash tumbling<BR>
through the air makes for a rather noisy radio spectrum.<BR>
<BR>
> Or maybe they'll be on the ground and try to dig in. Several observers<BR>
> *died* trying that on St. Helens. They were found later in their cars.<BR>
> Dead of asphyxiation. The ash buried the cars, and 3-6 feet of ash<BR>
> doesn't let air in. <BR>
> <BR>
> If they hadn't suffocated, they'd have baked. The ash that close to the<BR>
> volcano was still pretty warm. Warm enough to make the cars unlivable<BR>
> even *with* air. <BR>
<BR>
Yeah, like 6-700 degrees warm, and no oxygen in it, just CO2 and S02.<BR>
Pyroclastic flows are a real nasty thing to be caught in.<BR>
 <BR>
> It's a minor miracle that the film one guy shot survived. He was<BR>
> *directly* in the path of the ashflow. And had an autowind camera. He's<BR>
> the one who shot the series of still that show the side bulging and<BR>
> then breaking apart into the pyroclastic flow. <BR>
> <BR>
> I suspect he knew he'd never get out of it alive, given how long he<BR>
> kept shooting. He shot the film, stuck it in the car, and drove the car<BR>
> behind the ridge he was on before the ashfall made driving impossible. <BR>
> <BR>
> But by doing that, the film survived and they were able to find the<BR>
> car. That's a dedicated scientist. <BR>
> <BR>
> And while it may be a bit morbid, he'd make an excellent NPC researcher<BR>
> to stick the PCs with.<BR>
<BR>
Randy Johnston, a USGS geologist; the ridge is now named Johnston<BR>
ridge, after him and the new National Park service vistor center there is<BR>
also named for him.<BR>
<BR>
(Going to MSH was one of the focal points of my vacation in the northwest<BR>
this year...)<BR>
<BR>
And no that caldera isn't dead...there was a quite visible plume of<BR>
something coming from it when I was there this summer.<BR>
<BR>
Mount St. Helens is, in fact, one of the most _active_ of the Cascade<BR>
volcanos. In one of the visitors centers there is a timeline with little<BR>
orange dots on it showing when which volcano erupted when. Mt. St. Helens'<BR>
line looks like an orange bar, not dots...There have been two catastrophic<BR>
eruptions there in the last three hundred years, and some fragmentary<BR>
archaeological evidence suggests an even bigger eruption than the 1980<BR>
event has occured while humans have inhabited the area.<BR>
<BR>
At the time of the 1980 eruption, no one who knew anything about volcanoes<BR>
thought MSH was inactive...the last major eruption had been only 120 years<BR>
before, and there had been minor eruptions as late as the 30's.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:13:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Long)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>>> Aso, public corporal punishment has _not_ been banned because it<BR>
>>> was a "tool of oppression" but because it is currently considered<BR>
>>> uncivilized, barbaric, and inhumane.<BR>
<BR>
>> I consider the big problem to be that unless and until you can<BR>
>> convince the person receiving it that they *deserve* it, that they<BR>
>> did in fact, do wrong, they aren't going to benefit from the<BR>
>> punishment.  Instead, they'll just consider it unfair and want to<BR>
>> get revenge.<BR>
<BR>
> ??????????<BR>
><BR>
> So locking someone up in prison without *convincing* them they did wrong<BR>
> *won't* make them feel it is unfair and want revenge?<BR>
<BR>
I didn't say *that*. But I do think that many people would find an<BR>
"unjust" (in their opinion) flogging harder to forgive than a prison<BR>
term. We're wired to *remember* things that hurt that much.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 09:19:32 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!  etc<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> From: Leonard Erickson<BR>
>> The air filter problem won't be as bad in Traveller, since air rafts<BR>
>> and the like don't use air breathing engines. Even so, a lot of the<BR>
>> rest will be just as bad. <BR>
><BR>
> Well, _some_ air/rafts do.  The cheap ones that use MHD turbines, rather<BR>
> than fusion plants.  These exist in TNE, and one or two of them have popped<BR>
> out of my head for Striker...  What can I say?  They cost a fifth of the<BR>
> price!  <BR>
<BR>
And use a lot more fuel per year...<BR>
<BR>
> And no one specified that they had to be volcano-proof.<BR>
<BR>
Well, I'm *sure* some kind GM on the list will show players that such<BR>
"cost cutting" has a price... <eg><BR>
<BR>
> (Sulks.  Pouts.  Mutters about Vilani over-engineering.  And people wonder<BR>
> why the Imperial economy is such a mess when people insist on everything<BR>
> being gold-plated.  What we need is a good Volks-air/raft, etc...)  <BR>
<BR>
There, there...<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:49:48 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
>Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:33:15 +0100<BR>
><BR>
>You are correct and are awarded the order of the Carrot. Now, for an<BR>
>extra prize, can you think of anything in the first film that wasn't<BR>
>totally ignored in the dreadfull second?<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Or, for that matter, anything in the series?<BR>
<BR>
>--<BR>
>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
>Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
><BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 12:22:42 -0700<BR>
From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Cost-effective air/rafts <BR>
<BR>
"Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
> <BR>
> > From: Leonard Erickson<BR>
> > The air filter problem won't be as bad in Traveller, since air rafts<BR>
> > and the like don't use air breathing engines. Even so, a lot of the<BR>
> > rest will be just as bad. <BR>
> <BR>
> Well, _some_ air/rafts do.  The cheap ones that use MHD turbines,<BR>
> rather than fusion plants.  These exist in TNE, and one or two of them<BR>
> have popped out of my head for Striker...  What can I say?  They cost<BR>
> a fifth of the price!  <BR>
> <BR>
> And no one specified that they had to be volcano-proof.<BR>
> <BR>
> (Sulks.  Pouts.  Mutters about Vilani over-engineering.  And people<BR>
> wonder why the Imperial economy is such a mess when people insist on<BR>
> everything being gold-plated.  What we need is a good Volks-air/raft,<BR>
> etc...)  <BR>
<BR>
Already been done.  Travellers Digest # 20 featured an article titled <BR>
Budget Grav Vehicles.  Using fuel cells non-linked electronic <BR>
controls (no computer needed), no sensors beyond 50 km range <BR>
radar, and 4 cramped seats you can build a small (Disp 0.75) TL <BR>
15 grav vehicle (in MT) which only needs refueled 1 x month, with a <BR>
cruising speed of 225 kph, a top speed of 300 kph, and an <BR>
acceleration of 0.43 Gs for 16150 credits.  <BR>
<BR>
This article also features a TL 10 grav cycle that costs under 8,000 <BR>
Cr, and a TL 15 1 disp ton, fuel cell powered  space ship with a <BR>
robot brain pilot. This ship only costs 152,300 Cr.   <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:23:06 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Michael Feldhusen <mike_f@io.com><BR>
Subject: New PBEM Starting<BR>
<BR>
I'm starting a new PBEM set in 1100 (before the Fifth Frontier War) on<BR>
an Imperial Navy ship.<BR>
<BR>
The URL for the homepage is<BR>
<http://www.io.com/~mike_f/RPG/Rumors_of_War/Rumors_of_War.html>. Unfortunately,<BR>
the information that I have there is rather sparce, but all the basics<BR>
are there.  Also, if one or more of the list gearheads could take a<BR>
look at the ship's IN3 form and tell me 1) does the design make sense<BR>
and 2) is there a better weapons arrangement that I could use?<BR>
<BR>
If you are interested in joining the game, please drop me a line or<BR>
you can join the list by sending an email to rumors-on@phoenyx.net.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael Feldhusen<BR>
mike_f@io.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:51:14 +0300<BR>
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= <Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi><BR>
Subject: Re: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>
From: "Smart, David J (David)" <dasmart@avaya.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2000 7:34 PM<BR>
Subject: Military Tourism (You're not gonna *believe* this!)<BR>
<BR>
I read a short article of this type of tourism in Russia a few weeks ago. Wealthy hobbyists from finland spend a day at a russian military base firing away with various automatic weapons from AK's to auto-grenade launchers and anti-aircraft weapons. The base commander seems to think it's a good way to get much needed foreign currency.<BR>
<BR>
- -J2K<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:16:25 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:49:48 CDT<BR>
><BR>
>>From: "Mark Preston" <mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk><BR>
>>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>>To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
>>Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>
>>Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 22:33:15 +0100<BR>
>><BR>
>>You are correct and are awarded the order of the Carrot. Now, for an<BR>
>>extra prize, can you think of anything in the first film that wasn't<BR>
>>totally ignored in the dreadfull second?<BR>
>><BR>
><BR>
>Or, for that matter, anything in the series?<BR>
<BR>
Let me clarify: Can you think of anything that was in the first film that <BR>
wasn't totally ignored in the series?<BR>
<BR>
ObTraveller: Maybe planet Zeist is out there somewhere...<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
>>--<BR>
>>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>
>>Email     : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
>>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>
>><BR>
><snip><BR>
><BR>
>-J. Jensen<BR>
>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
><BR>
>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>
>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
<BR>
Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>
http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:32:14 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry, I don't have just one but I have taken stuff from ALL of the<BR>
following:<BR>
<BR>
"Screamers", Parts of "Blade Runner", many parts of the"Alien" series, Road<BR>
Warrior series (or Mad Max, depending on who you ask), "Saturn 3", Silent<BR>
Running, "2001", "2010", "The Arrival" (Very Good) & "the Second Arrival"<BR>
(Just Good), parts of "Total Recall", some parts of "Wing Commander",<BR>
"Logan's Run", parts of "Johnny Mnemonic" and of course both of the<BR>
"Terminator" movies. Lots and lots more, but I will let someone else post<BR>
some of their favorites now!<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 5:03 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:38 AM 10/15/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>
> >I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some<BR>
others<BR>
> >out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into<BR>
their<BR>
> >games?<BR>
><BR>
> Jurrasic Park.<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 15:52:57 -0500 (CDT)<BR>
From: Michael Feldhusen <mike_f@io.com><BR>
Subject: Re: New PBEM Starting<BR>
<BR>
[I know, I'm following up to myself.]<BR>
<BR>
On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, Michael Feldhusen wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> I'm starting a new PBEM set in 1100 (before the Fifth Frontier War) on<BR>
> an Imperial Navy ship.<BR>
> <BR>
> The URL for the homepage is<BR>
> <http://www.io.com/~mike_f/RPG/Rumors_of_War/Rumors_of_War.html>. Unfortunately,<BR>
> the information that I have there is rather sparce, but all the basics<BR>
> are there.  Also, if one or more of the list gearheads could take a<BR>
> look at the ship's IN3 form and tell me 1) does the design make sense<BR>
> and 2) is there a better weapons arrangement that I could use?<BR>
> <BR>
> If you are interested in joining the game, please drop me a line or<BR>
> you can join the list by sending an email to rumors-on@phoenyx.net.<BR>
<BR>
Of course, as soon as I post this, The Pheonyx (www.phoenyx.net) seems<BR>
to have gone off-line.  It was up when I wrote the email, honest!<BR>
<BR>
To those who have sent me email about _Rumors of War_ and not gotten a<BR>
response, it's because I'm waiting for www.pheonyx.net to come back on<BR>
line so I can give you the correct URLs.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry about that.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Michael Feldhusen<BR>
mike_f@io.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 16:54:05 -0400<BR>
From: "Thom Harris" <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
Subject: Re: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
<BR>
I was stationed on an "extinct" volcano when I was in Turkey. There is a<BR>
little fishing village named Sinop right at the top of Turkey in the Black<BR>
Sea. There is a peninsula jutting out from the village into the sea that was<BR>
the volcano. The "plates" in this area are basically stable, which allowed<BR>
the volcano to become extinct instead of dormant. I lived ON it for a year<BR>
at the U.S. military base (NSA run Intel "Field Station"). Lot's of caves<BR>
and stuff, really *spooky* sometimes (pun intended). GREAT historical sites<BR>
in the area, almost 5000 years worth.<BR>
<BR>
Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: <GypsyComet@aol.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.ient.com><BR>
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 4:34 AM<BR>
Subject: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> >>At least until the next time it blows up.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Doesn't the formation of a caldera mean that the magma chamber's empty<BR>
and<BR>
> >that the volcano can never erupt again?<BR>
> ><BR>
><BR>
>  Er. Not that I ever heard. An empty magma chamber is hardly a safe thing.<BR>
> You want it full and cooling into nice safe COLD HARD rock.<BR>
><BR>
>  The only truly extinct volcano is one that has had its supplies cut off<BR>
for<BR>
> many thousands of years and has cooled to its core. Everything else is<BR>
just<BR>
> "Dormant" to one degree or another...<BR>
><BR>
> >ObTraveller: Three words: PCs and volcanoes...<BR>
><BR>
> See my last...<BR>
><BR>
> GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 14:10:07 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Text. Mostly.<BR>
<BR>
> From: Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net><BR>
> While speculating as to an author's intent is intriguing, and explicit<BR>
> statements of intent from the author can be illuminating, there is still a<BR>
> value in treating the text itself as primary (though I don't go as far as<BR>
> certain crazy Frenchmen in this regard).  Arguments based on the text and<BR>
> only the text have the advantage of being bounded; bringing in second-<BR>
> guessing decades after the fact on the part of the author can hopelessly<BR>
> confuse analysis of the work as such.<BR>
<BR>
But to paraphrase a certain crazy Greek, you cannot read the same text once.<BR>
<BR>
Speaking of texts, one of the characters in the clip of 'Video Killed the<BR>
Radio Star' is a dead ringer for Ditzie. All she needs is an 'I <heart> HE'<BR>
badge on her overalls. And I am reluctantly forced to admit that Drun Drun<BR>
were not, in fact, crap. 80s night at the Gypsy Bar was fun, although it was<BR>
weird getting these flashbacks of the 80s as songs went on. I'd say it was<BR>
flashbacks of a mis-spent youth, but I'd be lying.<BR>
<BR>
> > From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
> Subject: Re: Kiri's "Japanese" posts<BR>
> And America also stubbornly refuses to go metric.  We Americans have to be<BR>
> different.   (I am an American citizen; the other half of me is Irish.  Or<BR>
> didn't you notice that Morgan is not the name of any old samurai clans?<BR>
> ^_-)<BR>
<BR>
I just thought the Macdonald clan's allies had ranged further than usual ...<BR>
for points, who were Macdonald's commanders when fighting against Napoleon ?<BR>
For bonus points, what languages did they usually speak ?<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 14:34:38 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Terrorists<BR>
<BR>
> From: SD Mooney <dom@cybergoths.u-net.com><BR>
> Subject: RE: RE: Terrorists Attack US DD in Yemen<BR>
> IMO The difference between terrorism and an act of war is the<BR>
> willingness of both sides to take it as such. Forex, the UK<BR>
> government treated the ongoing actions of the IRA as terrorism (and<BR>
> dealt with it under civil/criminal law) even though the IRA claimed<BR>
> that a state of war existed. If a state of war existed then the UK<BR>
> government's response would probably have been a lot nastier and a<BR>
> lot more effective...<BR>
<BR>
I'd disagree, as war is conducted between states. For the UK to be in a<BR>
state of war with the IRA, it must recognise the IRA as a state, and states<BR>
have territory. Both sides knew what they were doing- the IRA in trying to<BR>
get recognised as a belligerent, and the British in treating them basically<BR>
as a criminal conspiracy (well, until the deal went down, and they started<BR>
treating them as a political faction).<BR>
<BR>
The Imperial Rules of War seem to proscribe many of the less subtle<BR>
counter-insurgency techniques, so I believe that insurgencies against<BR>
planetary governments would be easier.<BR>
<BR>
I'm fairly certain the Imperium has a lower threshold of 'recognised<BR>
belligerent' than most modern states do. The Imperium would probably assert<BR>
the commercial rights of belligerents to unhindered Interstellar Trade in<BR>
most cases. In some cases, they may require assurance of a lack of excessive<BR>
extra-planetary support ("It's a smuggling mission. Yeah, yeah, I know they<BR>
buy all the guns they want, as long as an Imperial Auditor is present, and<BR>
have em shipped in officially. We're smuggling in the cash <beep>  lent em<BR>
to be used to pay on the barrel-head"). On the other hand, intercepting<BR>
military shipping has a general green light under the Rules of War, so I'd<BR>
guess that government forces could intercept at least within the atmosphere<BR>
(intercepting within the 100 diameter limit may be interesting, depending on<BR>
the Imperial attitude to war in space).<BR>
<BR>
I dunno. Doug, how much of this got covered in G:T Ground Forces ?<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 14:40:12 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
> > So do I. The image of people in dark cloaks on a desert world using<BR>
camels<BR>
> > to carry the cargo into a starship is particularly enjoyable.<BR>
><BR>
> Not gonna happen.<BR>
><BR>
> *TO* the ship, ok. But not into it.<BR>
><BR>
> The cargo needs to be packed into shipping containers, and the<BR>
> loadmaster needs to fiogure out where best to put each container based<BR>
> on its mass (and on where the center of mass of the container is).<BR>
<BR>
If they are loading the entire hold with a dry bulk cargo like Genuine<BR>
Organic Fava Beans in Genuine Organic Twine Sacks, then it's going to be a<BR>
case of keep loading the sacks till she's full. As the hold will be<BR>
uniformly ummm massy, then it's pretty simple.<BR>
<BR>
And when you get to the other end, you can just forklift em out, following<BR>
up the loose ones with a vacuum.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 15:04:42 +1000<BR>
From: "Katharine Whitchurch" <katts@globalfreeway.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: Starport Administration<BR>
<BR>
> From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
> Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
> I think you are viewing a starport as being like an airport. It makes<BR>
> more sense to think of it as a small town with port facilities.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
I've been following most of this, and I think people are missing the<BR>
political dimension.<BR>
<BR>
I'm going to preface all this that the Imperium is a government of men, not<BR>
laws, so if the sophont on the spot wants it to run differently, then it<BR>
will run differently. The Imperium is a big place, and it's been a going<BR>
concern for a long time, so just about everything, no matter how stupid,<BR>
will have been tried more than once.<BR>
<BR>
The starport administrator does not want to get into a pissing competition<BR>
with the planetary authorities.<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium does not want to either be or be seen to be a colonial power,<BR>
or exersising colonial prerogatives on planetary soil.<BR>
<BR>
If the starport authorities set themselves up as seperate from the planet -<BR>
by importing off-world security, by housing the workforce locally, by<BR>
providing aid and comfort for dissidents and lawbreakers, then there is a<BR>
severe risk that the local authorities will see this as reinforcing that the<BR>
Imperium is the Other, rather than them as being a small but important part<BR>
of a wider Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
At minimum, this will be bad for trade, as they seek to minimise their<BR>
reliance on this Other.<BR>
<BR>
At maximum, we get a planet that feels the only reason it is in the Imperium<BR>
is that the Imperial Navy will bombard them if they try and leave.<BR>
<BR>
> I tend to think of the way ports were described in a lot of Andre<BR>
> Norton's SF.<BR>
><BR>
> Also, consider that housing is likely to be part of the port *because*<BR>
> of the extrality. It's the only way to make sure that the local laws<BR>
> can't touch offworld personnel without permission from the folks<BR>
> running the port.<BR>
<BR>
Frankly, Leonard, that is an engineers solution. This is how your solution<BR>
looks from the other side "It is only by the protection of their perimeter<BR>
and the Imperial Marines and the Imperial Navy that guard it that the<BR>
Imperium can protect the criminals and terrorists who work against us".<BR>
<BR>
While the Extrality Line does provide formal rights than the Imperium can<BR>
enforce in extremis, it is one hell of a better idea to make sure that a<BR>
close working relationship exists between the Starport Administration and<BR>
the local authorities. And that means employing locals, who go home to their<BR>
neighbourhoods, turn up at the local football games, and are and are seen as<BR>
normal members of planetary society, not part of an Imperial Other. And if<BR>
some of them are spies, so be it.<BR>
<BR>
The Starport is the face of the Imperium. Does the Imperium wish to show a<BR>
hostile face, or does it want to show an inclusive face ?<BR>
<BR>
It also means making sure that if a planet has interesting attitudes which<BR>
differ from commonly accepted Imperial norms, it means that everyone who<BR>
lands knows what they are, and knows what not to do. The flip side also<BR>
applies, of course.<BR>
<BR>
The Imperium does not rule worlds, it rules the space between the worlds.<BR>
Imperial Authorities should not make the mistake of setting up little worlds<BR>
behind an extrality fence.<BR>
<BR>
Ian Whitchurch<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:23:18 -0700<BR>
From: "Brian Jenkins" <brianjenk@home.com><BR>
Subject: Short films<BR>
<BR>
I lost the message where someone where to find the film "Summoner Geeks"  If<BR>
you can I would like you to repost the URL><BR>
<BR>
Brian Jenkins<BR>
- --------------------------------------<BR>
orleansgm@home.com<BR>
ICQ#1202483<BR>
<BR>
"It pays to be obvious, especially if you have a reputation for subtlety"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:48:33 -0400<BR>
From: "SwordWorlder" <SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
<BR>
Mos Isley spaceport has been the model for most of my LL 0 world starports<BR>
and I've taken some of the background robots from Star Wars, as well. More<BR>
recently, the 5th Element has tainted my view of HiPop worlds. And, for<BR>
whatever reason, I associate the Rebellion era with Max Headroom. :-/<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________<BR>
_________The_Traveller_Trader____________<BR>
"The place to get that wonderful,<BR>
                                 out-of-print Traveller stuff!"<BR>
<BR>
Colin Michael - ct@downport.com<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
> I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some<BR>
others<BR>
> out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into<BR>
their<BR>
> games?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:48:22 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: GF Cover (was RE: Emergency)<BR>
<BR>
:)  Glad you like it.  Sorry I never had a chance to get you down to SJ to<BR>
take a look at things.  If you and Kirsten make it to the December shoot,<BR>
I'll bring my laptop with the files on it and you can take a look at how<BR>
things are done.<BR>
<BR>
Back to work!<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>
> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 10:43 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Emergency<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> At 10:40 AM 10/14/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>
> >Glad to hear that you're all right Jesse.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Obtrav:  Could this have been a Templar plot to deprive Jesse of his<BR>
> >               chicken tenders and mozzarella sticks?  What<BR>
> secrets of the<BR>
> >               conspiracy are you writing about now????<BR>
><BR>
> I think he was just doing research for the GF cover (that thing<BR>
> is *awesome*)<BR>
><BR>
> Recover soon, compadre.<BR>
> --<BR>
><BR>
> Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
> http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:46:48 -0700<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Emergency<BR>
<BR>
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!<BR>
<BR>
Ya' never know [chuckles all evil-like]<BR>
<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Eric Freitas<BR>
> Sent: Saturday, October 14, 2000 7:41 AM<BR>
> To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
> Subject: RE: Emergency<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
> Glad to hear that you're all right Jesse.<BR>
><BR>
> Obtrav:  Could this have been a Templar plot to deprive Jesse of his<BR>
>                chicken tenders and mozzarella sticks?  What secrets of the<BR>
>                conspiracy are you writing about now????<BR>
><BR>
> Eric<BR>
><BR>
> At 18:08 10/5/00 -0700, you wrote:<BR>
> >All,<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Due to a fire, some 2nd degree burns, a new job, and a stainless<BR>
> steal bitch<BR>
> >of a cold or some other bug that literally dropped me for two days, I was<BR>
> >out of touch for ahile.  I'm back, and desperately trying to<BR>
> play catch up<BR>
> >on the graphics.  I've already e-mailed Loren & Phil seperately with the<BR>
> >full details.  Didn't want anyone really freaking out or something.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Have to get back to work.<BR>
> >Jesse<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3163<BR>
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Date:	10/15/00 10:16:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest      Monday, October 16 2000      Volume 1999 : Number 3164<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
RE: Emergency<BR>
[none]<BR>
Help<BR>
Re: New GURPS Traveller stuff<BR>
Re: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
RE: Starport administration <BR>
Re: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
Re: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!  etc<BR>
Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
Was: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
re: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR>
Arcology<BR>
Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
S.T. <BR>
Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
Super Vocanos, Super Flows<BR>
Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
Re: Board games<BR>
Re: Starport administration<BR>
Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 17:33:59 CDT<BR>
From: "James Jensen" <cheeb0@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Emergency<BR>
<BR>
>From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>
>Subject: RE: Emergency<BR>
>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:46:48 -0700<BR>
><BR>
>ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!<BR>
><BR>
>Ya' never know [chuckles all evil-like]<BR>
><BR>
>Jesse<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Fnord.<BR>
<BR>
- -J. Jensen<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:57:52 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:01:31 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Help<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:39:26 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: New GURPS Traveller stuff<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Chris gave us a heads-up thus:<BR>
>SJ Games has announced two new GURPS Traveller items, to be released in the<BR>
>coming months: a GM's Screen and /Beowulf/ deckplans (first in a series of<BR>
>similar items, apparently). Each will come with a sheet of Cardboard Heroes.<BR>
<BR>
YES! A NEW GM SCREEN!! <drool><BR>
<BR>
As I said to David Smart, I reckon I could wallpaper my study with Traveller<BR>
referee screens - my first handbuilt CT screen, the green Judges Guild CT screen<BR>
(combined weapon/armor tables!), the MT screen (lovely dot-map), my initial Word<BR>
version of a TNE screen, the official TNE screen (w/50-page sullementary<BR>
handbook!), the T4 screen...<BR>
<BR>
I even asked him if GURPS have a screen. I'll have to get it now, just to be a<BR>
completist!!<BR>
<BR>
And I don't even play GURPS...  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
(Well, I don't play with the CT, TNE, or T4 rules either, I guess...)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:16:55 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Re: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
<BR>
Was written:<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: What would be *really* "fun" is the "third type" of eruption. I<BR>
>forget what they call it, but basicly huge cracks open up and massive<BR>
>lava flows cover the land for hundreds of miles.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Reply:<BR>
<BR>
It's called a fissure flow.  Outstanding examples can be seen in Iceland and<BR>
on the Decca plateau on the Indian subcontinent if I remember correctly.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:59:39 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Tod wrote:<BR>
>Whe have extended character generation for law enforcement.<BR>
<BR>
I've got one of those (also for the MoJ)!<BR>
<BR>
For MT.<BR>
<BR>
Actually, I also have one of those for the SPA and for the Sword Worlds Patrol<BR>
Service, both based on the original CT articles. I just haven't HTML'd them yet<BR>
- - heck, they're still on PAPER, who am I kidding?  ;-)<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:23:32 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Authors & Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>
<BR>
>Every author has unconscious assumptions and subtexts. If<BR>
nothing else, we are all products of our cultures, and Heinlein's<BR>
culture when he wrote that book was somewhat different than ours<BR>
is now.  Bad authors usually have more, but they are found in every<BR>
work of fiction ever written.<<BR>
<BR>
All of which means nothing when it comes to some would be psychologist<BR>
trying to analyze someone based solely on works of fiction.<BR>
<BR>
>Also, you completely neglected the 2nd half of my argument.  I<BR>
don't know when he started making statements about what he<BR>
"really" meant to say in ST, but if as, I suspect, it was a number of<BR>
years after the novel was written, then rethinking and changing<BR>
attitudes could have a great deal to do with what he said about the<BR>
novel vs what he actually wrote in it.<<BR>
<BR>
That's because I never made an argument in support of the other side.<BR>
Something you ignored as not being in my post.<BR>
I really don't care about when or why he wrote he wrote his later comments.<BR>
I think the book speaks for itself and quite clearly. But no matter what the<BR>
time frame, I will still take the word of an author over that of an amateur<BR>
observer on the meaning of their works.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:32:25 -0400<BR>
From: "Samuel D. Weiss" <samwise1@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Heinlein (Relatively Long)<BR>
<BR>
>Samuel says that he, personally, never considered Federal Service to be<BR>
specifically military or non-military and that such a distinction is<BR>
irrelevant. However, the book is rife with references to military service,<BR>
and Major Reid's commentary in the History and Moral Philosophy class<BR>
appears to hinge directly on a certain understanding of the term. I think<BR>
that this is sufficient reason to conclude that the question of what Federal<BR>
Service consists of is not only relevant, but is actually at the heart of<BR>
the work.<<BR>
<BR>
No Chris, I do not believe it is. I think the relevant issue is combat vs.<BR>
non-combat arms of Federal Service. If I were to actually presume to offer<BR>
an interpretative opinion of what Heinlein meant both in the book and his<BR>
alter commentary, I might suggest that this is the distinction he meant<BR>
(military federal service means combat, non-military federal service means<BR>
non-combat) and he was simply operating off of a different set of<BR>
definitions. I believe everything in both the book and his general writings<BR>
supports this. However, I am neither a certified psychologist, psychiatrist<BR>
or profiler and have only read some of the books by Heinlein, not everything<BR>
he has ever written or interviewed him at length personally. Thus such a<BR>
supposition is truly "just an opinion" and of very low objective worth. I<BR>
could be absolutely right, who knows. But mostly, I simply do not care.<BR>
<BR>
Further, I would like to state how silly this entire sub-debate is simply<BR>
because the core issue, whether or not ST is a paean to futuristic fascism<BR>
is rather well and sufficiently proven as being no such thing. This entirely<BR>
satisfies me and leaves me with no real concern for any corollary issues.<BR>
<BR>
Sam<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:34:32 -0500<BR>
From: Charles R Hensley <hensley.cr@gte.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Starport administration <BR>
<BR>
Peez wrote:<BR>
>Charles Hensley writes:<BR>
>>Some airports now have hotels on the property, but I would use US<BR>
>>overseas military bases as an example, important people for running<BR>
the<BR>
>>base are brought in and housed on base, but most laborers are locals<BR>
>>that cross the line each day.<BR>
><snipped><BR>
><BR>
>        This is a reasonable model, and the one that I am leaning<BR>
towards.<BR>
>        Of course, the difference is that a starport is a civilian<BR>
facility in<BR>
>        the sense that it exists to allow civilians access to<BR>
starships.<BR>
>        This means that a busy starport has many civilians coming and<BR>
>        going daily, so there will be a demand for small stores, bars,<BR>
>        restaurants, perhaps a duty-free shop.  A small hotel might be<BR>
>        found in some, but more often such facilities (along with<BR>
>        vehicle rental, etc.) would be found outside of the extrality.<BR>
>        I guess that senior administrators and starport security would<BR>
>        be organized at the subsector level and personel would be<BR>
>        transfered about as required.  Such personel would be housed<BR>
>        in the extrality while the bulk of employees would be locals<BR>
>        living nearby.<BR>
><BR>
Exactly. Every military base I have been on has had at least one store,<BR>
2 clubs/bars, and a restaurant (chow hall).  Just civilianize this model<BR>
and it should work.<BR>
<BR>
Charles H<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 18:20:35<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: St. Helens extinct?<BR>
<BR>
At 09:04 AM 10/15/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>ObTrav: What would be *really* "fun" is the "third type" of eruption. I<BR>
>forget what they call it, but basicly huge cracks open up and massive<BR>
>lava flows cover the land for hundreds of miles. <BR>
<BR>
Then of course there are the "super volcanoes" like the one under<BR>
Yellowstone National Park.  Goes off every few hundred thousand years, and<BR>
lays waste to the continent.<BR>
<BR>
It's about due now.  Yellowstone Lake is starting to slosh over as the<BR>
magma dome rises.  :P<BR>
<BR>
I'm using this as a start point for a cyberpunk setting.  The blast wipes<BR>
out most food crops world wide, we have famine, plague and war, then things<BR>
get fun...<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 20:52:01 -0500<BR>
From: John Groth <wombat@premier.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!  etc<BR>
<BR>
Alan Bradley wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
<<snip>><BR>
> <BR>
> (Sulks.  Pouts.  Mutters about Vilani over-engineering.  And people wonder<BR>
> why the Imperial economy is such a mess when people insist on everything<BR>
> being gold-plated.  What we need is a good Volks-air/raft, etc...)<BR>
<BR>
<tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
Two points:<BR>
<BR>
1.  Our suits [1] are unhappy with your failure to note AuricTech<BR>
Shipyards' trademark rights to the term "Gold-Plated [tm]" in your<BR>
post.  When our suits get unhappy, they get concerned.  And when they<BR>
get concerned, people get sued.  Now, I ain't sayin' it's gonna be you,<BR>
but I also ain't sayin' it ain't.<BR>
<BR>
2.  So our products are Gold-Plated [tm].  You got a _problem_ with<BR>
that?<BR>
<BR>
</tongue-in-cheek><BR>
<BR>
[1]:  Lawyers in battledress.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>
Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>
<BR>
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:04:43 -0700<BR>
From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
<BR>
From: Thom Harris <thomharr@mediaone.net><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>I'm sorry, I don't have just one but I have taken stuff from ALL of the<BR>
>following:<BR>
><BR>
>"Screamers", Parts of "Blade Runner", many parts of the"Alien" series, Road<BR>
>Warrior series (or Mad Max, depending on who you ask), "Saturn 3", Silent<BR>
>Running, "2001", "2010", "The Arrival" (Very Good) & "the Second Arrival"<BR>
>(Just Good), parts of "Total Recall", some parts of "Wing Commander",<BR>
>"Logan's Run", parts of "Johnny Mnemonic" and of course both of the<BR>
>"Terminator" movies. Lots and lots more, but I will let someone else post<BR>
>some of their favorites now!<BR>
><BR>
>Thom Harris - GOFIR - <Gnarly Old Fart In Residence><BR>
<BR>
    And, what about Dark Star?  Does anyone understand that this is the<BR>
Traveller Movie of Traveller Movies?  And, you must add in Army of Darkness,<BR>
a good second place Traveller Movie of Traveller Movies.<BR>
<BR>
    I bid you peace.<BR>
<BR>
Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>
ICQ # 8973001<BR>
legate@futureone.com<BR>
<BR>
"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>
places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>
passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR>
<BR>
"I don't need Romance.  I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>
USS Excaliber.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:08:34 +1000<BR>
From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Was: Re: Heinlein and fascism<BR>
<BR>
All this talk about ST, and specifically the recruit who punched his superior,<BR>
has triggered<BR>
an old memory that is (sort of) related.<BR>
<BR>
I once read a  book that was a collection of satires based on popular works of<BR>
science fiction.<BR>
It was borrowed from a library during a period when I was a voracious reader,<BR>
and I did not<BR>
record either the title of the book or the author of the story. I have never<BR>
been able to find the<BR>
book again, and I hope that someone on the list will recognise it and be able to<BR>
help me with<BR>
the title.<BR>
<BR>
You see there are several of the short stories that I want to mine for plot<BR>
ideas.<BR>
<BR>
In particular ( and Ob Traveller) is the satire based on Isaac Asimovs robot<BR>
stories, which I re-tell<BR>
as an apocryphal story when my PC's want to know why there are so few<BR>
intelligent robots used in<BR>
Traveller.<BR>
<BR>
It tells of a government research project to develop an intelligent robot. To<BR>
control the robot they<BR>
come up with three laws - which read exactly the same as Asimov's three laws of<BR>
robotics (except<BR>
that in the satire they are called the Three Laws of Rob-ish).<BR>
<BR>
The first robot they produced was introspective, and failed to acknowledge (or<BR>
react to) the<BR>
outside world.<BR>
<BR>
So they gave the second attempt a sense of curiosity - it dissassembled three<BR>
technicians to see<BR>
how they worked before they were able to stop it.<BR>
<BR>
They gave the third model improved sensors so that it could better determine<BR>
what was human.<BR>
It took a look at itself and rightfully concluded that it fit the parameters for<BR>
humanity - so it refused<BR>
to obey any order given to it.<BR>
<BR>
I forget what they changed with the last one, but as a final test and to show<BR>
how well it would<BR>
protect humans they told it to kill someone. Which it did, coldly and<BR>
efficiently.<BR>
<BR>
The scientists were all shocked, and thought the project was a total failure.<BR>
Except ,(the sting in<BR>
the tale) the military (who secretly were funding the project) were happy<BR>
because what they<BR>
REALLY wanted all along was a coldly efficient killing machine that would take<BR>
orders and<BR>
carry them out without question.<BR>
<BR>
Now does anyone recognise the story or the collection it belongs to?<BR>
<BR>
Graeme<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
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------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 19:28:33 -0700<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: re: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au><BR>
<BR>
>Well, _some_ air/rafts do.  The cheap ones that use MHD turbines, rather<BR>
than fusion plants.<BR>
>These exist in TNE, and one or two of them have popped out of my head for<BR>
Striker...  What can I >say?  They cost a fifth of the price!<BR>
<BR>
MHD means, if I recall correctly, magnetohydrodynamic.  What is that,<BR>
exactly?<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:42:24 EDT<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Arcology<BR>
<BR>
The original Arcology book is back in print...<BR>
<BR>
http://www.arcosanti.org/media/city.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:02:34 -0400<BR>
From: "DaveShayne" <daveshayne@email.msn.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 08:38:09 +1000<BR>
>From: "Karen and Michael Hughes" <kmhughes@dynamite.com.au><BR>
>Subject:<BR>
<BR>
>I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some<BR>
others<BR>
>out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into<BR>
their<BR>
>games?<BR>
><BR>
>- - Michael<BR>
<BR>
Well it's not a particularly trav film but I was just thinking<BR>
about a scenario based on the "Poseidon Adventure."<BR>
maybe get some use out of the AHL deckplans in a non<BR>
battle situation.<BR>
<BR>
Oh and for a longer farther ranging situation perhaps,<BR>
"It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad, World." (or Imperium in<BR>
this case.)<BR>
<BR>
Dave Shayne<BR>
<BR>
"She came from Planet Claire<BR>
 I knew she came from there<BR>
 She drove a Plymouth Satellite<BR>
 Faster than the speed of light"<BR>
  - B-52's<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:03:25 GMT<BR>
From: "Erick ..." <siniypiva@hotmail.com><BR>
Subject: S.T. <BR>
<BR>
Well guys, this has gone wayyy of topic, just think of all the actual <BR>
traveler stuff we coulda talked about instead. And just as a distraction, <BR>
has anyone else in the bay eaten at "Cluck U. Chicken"? I personally like <BR>
the devil spuds ;0<BR>
<BR>
erick<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
_________________________________________________________________________<BR>
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<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:59:41 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Michael emerged from study thus:<BR>
>I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some others<BR>
>out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into their<BR>
>games?<BR>
<BR>
Hi Michael! Try renting "Nightriders" sometime. And no, it _doesnt_ have David<BR>
Hasslehoff in it. It is based on a SF novella, and you even get to see iris<BR>
valves!!<BR>
<BR>
I actually prefer the film to the book, tho'. George Herbert's (?) view of the<BR>
future is waaay too cold and bleak for me.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:25:13 -0400<BR>
From: "Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net><BR>
Subject: Super Vocanos, Super Flows<BR>
<BR>
>Then of course there are the "super volcanoes" like the one under<BR>
>Yellowstone National Park.  Goes off every few hundred thousand years, and<BR>
>lays waste to the continent.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Supposedly what happened a few 10s, or was it hundreds, of million years or<BR>
so ago on the Decca Plateau if the paleoclimatologists are correct was even<BR>
worse.  It was a fissure flow of massive proportions.  Postulated cause of<BR>
one of the Earth's periodic mass extinctions, but not as well know as that<BR>
little hit down Mexico way.<BR>
<BR>
Dan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:33:27 -0700<BR>
From: "J. Paul Sanders" <timmon@primenet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>
<BR>
At 02:59 PM 10/16/00 +1100, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>Dear Folks -<BR>
><BR>
>Michael emerged from study thus:<BR>
>>I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some others<BR>
>>out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into their<BR>
>>games?<BR>
><BR>
>Hi Michael! Try renting "Nightriders" sometime. And no, it _doesnt_ have<BR>
David<BR>
>Hasslehoff in it. It is based on a SF novella, and you even get to see iris<BR>
>valves!!<BR>
><BR>
>I actually prefer the film to the book, tho'. George Herbert's (?) view of<BR>
the<BR>
>future is waaay too cold and bleak for me.<BR>
<BR>
George R. R. Martin is the author's name.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:02:44 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Paul wrote:<BR>
>How would [Dulinor's] changes be different to the existing structure?<BR>
<BR>
Quick, someone, haul out the "In-Persona Debate" material again!!<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:06:59 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Board games<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>
>Will FarFutre ever reprint 5FW or Invasion Earth? On a seperate yet vaguely<BR>
>related topic, has the idea of a rebellion era board game ever appealed to<BR>
>anyone?<BR>
<BR>
It is possible to create 5FW counters for the entire Imperium. They worked off<BR>
some simple algorithms to ccalculate mobile troops, SDB's, and planetary<BR>
(static) forces.<BR>
<BR>
I used someone's PDF subsector mapper and created a 5FW map for the Marches,<BR>
along with the "world boxes". Its a BIG game.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:07:14 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Matt wrote:<BR>
>> You were asking about starport administration.  There is an article on<BR>
>> the Starport Authority in, I think, JTAS #20.  Maybe it's #18.<BR>
><BR>
>Split the difference... its #19 :)<BR>
<BR>
Yeah, but the errata is in #21...<BR>
<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:07:06 +1100<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
James asked:<BR>
>The main problem is: why hasn't this race been encountered before?<BR>
<BR>
"It has, why do you think that last world we - ahem - visited illegally was<BR>
Red-Zoned?"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3164<BR>
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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:13:38 -0400 (EDT)<BR>
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From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>
To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>
Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3164<BR>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3165</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>10/16/00 3:28:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3165<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3164<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3164<BR>RE: Board games<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Help<BR>Re: Board games<BR>Re: Board games<BR>Re: Authors &amp; Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR>On-Topic: Sisters of Mercy<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Heinlein (and Gifford's essay thereon)<BR>Re: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR>Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR>Re: *That* film and book.<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:28:15 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR><BR>&gt; ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 12:02:23 CDT<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Would serious damage be done to the Traveller canon if zombies were<BR>&gt;introduced in the form of a minor race that reproduces by infecting other<BR>&gt;beings? I'm thinking of running a Resident Evil-type adventure where the<BR>PCs<BR>&gt;are stuck on a ship during jump and they're pretty much the only remaining<BR>&gt;persons who haven't been infected.<BR><BR>I seem to recall, that an issue of JTAS had short adventures on<BR>"werewolves," (Amber Zone??) where the condition was brought on by drugs?<BR>And another did something on vampirism (again, with extenuating<BR>circumstances - Amber Zone of cargo-thing?), so to me at least, the zombie<BR>thing would work in my TU as I do like the idea - if implemented correctly.<BR><BR>Any chance of you posting some of what you do if you go that way??<BR><BR>- -- The Roc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:25:56 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>I personally haven't seen that one yet. I have looked in some of the video<BR>stores that carry "older" movies but no joy. (There's no chance that<BR>"Blockbuster" would have anything much older than two years. Yes, I know<BR>there are sections dedicated to the classics, I just didn't think they would<BR>consider it a classic.) I am sure it would have been way up on list if I<BR>had. Also, I stopped to allow other people to *add* to the list. It appears<BR>that my *ruse* worked....<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:04 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR><BR>____________SNIPPED______________<BR><BR>&gt; From: Thom Harris &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I'm sorry, I don't have just one but I have taken stuff from ALL of the<BR>&gt; &gt;following:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, what about Dark Star?&nbsp; Does anyone understand that this is the<BR>&gt; Traveller Movie of Traveller Movies?&nbsp; And, you must add in Army of<BR>Darkness,<BR>&gt; a good second place Traveller Movie of Traveller Movies.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Legate Legion<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:26:19 -0500<BR>From: Richard Persky &lt;richardp@mac.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3164<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:26:27 -0500<BR>From: Richard Persky &lt;richardp@mac.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3164<BR><BR>subscribe traveller<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:20:46 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Board games<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&gt; [mailto:david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au]<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, 16 October 2000 16:07<BR>&gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Board games<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Will FarFutre ever reprint 5FW or Invasion Earth? On a <BR>&gt; seperate yet vaguely<BR>&gt; &gt;related topic, has the idea of a rebellion era board game <BR>&gt; ever appealed to<BR>&gt; &gt;anyone?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It is possible to create 5FW counters for the entire <BR>&gt; Imperium. They worked off<BR>&gt; some simple algorithms to ccalculate mobile troops, SDB's, <BR>&gt; and planetary<BR>&gt; (static) forces.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I used someone's PDF subsector mapper and created a 5FW map <BR>&gt; for the Marches,<BR>&gt; along with the "world boxes". Its a BIG game.<BR><BR>Could it be done with CyberBoard? The idea being the map can be as large<BR>as needed, and still fit on a desktop!<BR><BR>(note, I have only heard of this product, never used it!). <BR><BR>check http://www.execpc.com/~d-larson/cyberboard.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:45:10 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>From: Thom Harris &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;I personally haven't seen that one yet. I have looked in some of the video<BR>&gt;stores that carry "older" movies but no joy. (There's no chance that<BR>&gt;"Blockbuster" would have anything much older than two years. Yes, I know<BR>&gt;there are sections dedicated to the classics, I just didn't think they<BR>would<BR>&gt;consider it a classic.) I am sure it would have been way up on list if I<BR>&gt;had. Also, I stopped to allow other people to *add* to the list. It appears<BR>&gt;that my *ruse* worked....<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Doug, in your guise as the mighty &amp; wise "Penguin Boy", could you please<BR>explain why the movie Darkstar is the perfect Traveller Movie?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Btw, look for it &amp; Army of Darkness at your local Borders or Barnes &amp;<BR>Noble.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:49:21 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of landing<BR>pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp; a<BR>couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport so<BR>he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so, if<BR>Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be protected<BR>by Imperial Marines?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:55:43 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Help<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_021C_01C03791.EC5D58A0<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>Grae,<BR>I mustn't be the intended recipient of this (or the one before it) as =<BR>there is nothing in it for me... consider yourself, errrr, notified as =<BR>requested...?<BR><BR>- -- The Roc<BR>&nbsp; ----- Original Message -----=20<BR>&nbsp; From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au=20<BR>&nbsp; To: traveller@lists.ient.com=20<BR>&nbsp; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 10:01:am<BR>&nbsp; Subject: Help<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=<BR>- -----<BR>&nbsp; Attention:=20<BR>&nbsp; This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the =<BR>intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. Any =<BR>views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.=20<BR>&nbsp; This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by MailMarshal<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -------------------------------------------------------------------------=<BR>- -----<BR><BR><BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_021C_01C03791.EC5D58A0<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =<BR>http-equiv=3DContent-Type&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT color=#3dff00>&lt;STRONG&gt;Grae,&lt;/STRONG&gt;</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT color=#3dff00>&lt;STRONG&gt;I mustn't be the intended recipient =<BR>of this (or=20<BR>the one before it) as there is nothing in it for me... consider =<BR>yourself, errrr,=20<BR>notified as requested...?&lt;/STRONG&gt;</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT color=#3dff00>&lt;STRONG&gt;-- The Roc&lt;/STRONG&gt;</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;BLOCKQUOTE=20<BR>style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =<BR>0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;----- Original Message ----- &lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV=20<BR>&nbsp; style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =<BR>black"&gt;<B>From:</B>=20<BR>&nbsp; <A href='http://3d"mailto:Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au"=20<BR/' title='http://3d"mailto:Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au"=20<BR/'>title=3DGraeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au&gt;Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au</A> =<BR>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;<B>To:</B> &lt;A=20<BR>&nbsp; href=3D"mailto:traveller@lists.ient.com"=20<BR>&nbsp; title=3Dtraveller@lists.ient.com&gt;traveller@lists.ient.com</A> &lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;<B>Sent:</B> Monday, October 16, 2000=20<BR>&nbsp; 10:01:am&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"&gt;<B>Subject:</B> Help&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;HR&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;STRONG&gt;<FONT color=#3dff00>Attention: </FONT>&lt;/STRONG&gt;<BR>This =<BR>e-mail is=20<BR>&nbsp; privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient =<BR>please=20<BR>&nbsp; delete the message and notify the sender. Any views or opinions =<BR>presented are=20<BR>&nbsp; solely those of the author.=20<BR>&nbsp; 
<P>This e-mail message has been scanned and cleared by &lt;STRONG&gt;&lt;FONT=20<BR>&nbsp; color=3D#ff8000&gt;MailMarshal</FONT><BR>&lt;/STRONG&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &lt;HR&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; 
<P></P>&lt;/BLOCKQUOTE&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_021C_01C03791.EC5D58A0--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:29:55 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Board games<BR><BR>I think it would be really fun to battle out the Rebellion. It would be made<BR>in multiple parts with add ons, like The Gamers line of civil war games.<BR>(Highly recommended.)<BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 10:06 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Board games<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Will FarFutre ever reprint 5FW or Invasion Earth? On a seperate yet<BR>vaguely<BR>&gt; &gt;related topic, has the idea of a rebellion era board game ever appealed<BR>to<BR>&gt; &gt;anyone?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is possible to create 5FW counters for the entire Imperium. They worked<BR>off<BR>&gt; some simple algorithms to ccalculate mobile troops, SDB's, and planetary<BR>&gt; (static) forces.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I used someone's PDF subsector mapper and created a 5FW map for the<BR>Marches,<BR>&gt; along with the "world boxes". Its a BIG game.<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>&gt; http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>&gt; "I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>&gt; of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>&gt; position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:30:38 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Board games<BR><BR>That would be really cool. <BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Paul Harris" &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 11:20 PM<BR>Subject: RE: Board games<BR><BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&gt; &gt; [mailto:david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au]<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, 16 October 2000 16:07<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Board games<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Will FarFutre ever reprint 5FW or Invasion Earth? On a <BR>&gt; &gt; seperate yet vaguely<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;related topic, has the idea of a rebellion era board game <BR>&gt; &gt; ever appealed to<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;anyone?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; It is possible to create 5FW counters for the entire <BR>&gt; &gt; Imperium. They worked off<BR>&gt; &gt; some simple algorithms to ccalculate mobile troops, SDB's, <BR>&gt; &gt; and planetary<BR>&gt; &gt; (static) forces.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I used someone's PDF subsector mapper and created a 5FW map <BR>&gt; &gt; for the Marches,<BR>&gt; &gt; along with the "world boxes". Its a BIG game.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Could it be done with CyberBoard? The idea being the map can be as large<BR>&gt; as needed, and still fit on a desktop!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (note, I have only heard of this product, never used it!). <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; check http://www.execpc.com/~d-larson/cyberboard.html<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:01:14 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Authors &amp; Books (was Re: Heinlein )<BR><BR>"Samuel D. Weiss" &lt;samwise1@email.msn.com&gt; wrote: <BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Every author has unconscious assumptions and subtexts. If<BR>&gt; nothing else, we are all products of our cultures, and Heinlein's<BR>&gt; culture when he wrote that book was somewhat different than ours is<BR>&gt; now.&nbsp; Bad authors usually have more, but they are found in every work<BR>&gt; of fiction ever written.&lt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All of which means nothing when it comes to some would be psychologist<BR>&gt; trying to analyze someone based solely on works of fiction.<BR><BR>I never said that at all.&nbsp; I'm trying to analyse the text, *not* the <BR>author.&nbsp; I completely agree with Kiri's contention that attempts to <BR>discern *why* an author wrote a text in a specific way is almost <BR>always total crap. Doing so involved looking at a text and then <BR>speculating on the author's motives for writing this text.&nbsp; Such <BR>information is *not* contained in the text and so attempting to <BR>discover it is unfounded speculation.&nbsp; <BR><BR>OTOH, speculating on what an author *meant* when writing a text <BR>is a completely different matter.&nbsp; I maintain that this information is <BR>purely contained within the text. An author may say late what they <BR>meant in a text, but I would place the text itself as primary.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Just as I see a reader attempting to uncover an author's motives as <BR>highly suspect, I also feel that the difficulties of honest <BR>introspection combined with the elusive and fragile nature of <BR>memory, and the changes in personality and memory that happen <BR>to everyone over time make, an author's speculations on their own <BR>intended meanings by referring to their memories instead of to the <BR>text itself is similarly (although somewhat less) suspect. <BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Also, you completely neglected the 2nd half of my argument.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; don't know when he started making statements about what he<BR>&gt; "really" meant to say in ST, but if as, I suspect, it was a number of<BR>&gt; years after the novel was written, then rethinking and changing<BR>&gt; attitudes could have a great deal to do with what he said about the<BR>&gt; novel vs what he actually wrote in it.&lt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's because I never made an argument in support of the other side.<BR>&gt; Something you ignored as not being in my post. I really don't care<BR>&gt; about when or why he wrote he wrote his later comments. I think the<BR>&gt; book speaks for itself and quite clearly. But no matter what the time<BR>&gt; frame, I will still take the word of an author over that of an amateur<BR>&gt; observer on the meaning of their works.<BR><BR>Clearly multiple reasonable interpretation of the text are possible.&nbsp; I <BR>also feel that further discussion of what he meant in the text is <BR>somewhat pointless, since careful reading seems to indicate that <BR>he may have made numerous implications, but he never said <BR>anything at all definitive about the nature of Federal Service.&nbsp; As for <BR>the 2nd half of your statement, I believe I covered it above.<BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:02 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;005f01c03734$efa6ffa0$b809fad1@legate&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Legate wrote: "Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a <BR>couple of landing pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; <BR>rehauling bays, &amp; a couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating <BR>a Class C Starport so he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a <BR>Starport?&nbsp; And, if so, if Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out <BR>on his estate &amp; be protected by Imperial Marines?"<BR><BR>I would have thought not: it's just a private facility. His movements in <BR>and out will be subject to local planetary and Imperial law concerning the <BR>operation of space vehicles, though...<BR><BR>This Imanoble guy will have to hire his own security goons, who may or may <BR>not protect him to the uttermost when the chips are down. And who, if <BR>sufficiently bribed, might let local villains hide out there... hmmm... <BR>characters hired as said security goons when down on their luck, and a <BR>whole saga of events ensue.....<BR><BR>You rat, Legate, you've given me an idea now..... :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:13:13 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>"J. Paul Sanders" &lt;timmon@primenet.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 02:59 PM 10/16/00 +1100, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Dear Folks -<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Michael emerged from study thus:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;some others out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;various themes into their games?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Hi Michael! Try renting "Nightriders" sometime. And no, it _doesnt_<BR>&gt; &gt;have David Hasslehoff in it. It is based on a SF novella, and you even get to<BR>&gt; &gt;see iris valves!!<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; George R. R. Martin is the author's name.<BR><BR>And, both the story and the film are titled "Nightflyers". Martin is a <BR>great source of Traveller inspiration, "The Stone City" is a classic, <BR>as is _After the Festival_.&nbsp; OTOH, most of his work is pretty damn <BR>bleak.&nbsp; <BR><BR>As for video SF, I find the TV shows "Farscape" and "Babylon 5" to <BR>both be far superior to any movie SF, both in quality and in <BR>relevance to Traveller. <BR><BR><BR>- -John Snead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1970 14:54:09 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Zombies in Traveller<BR><BR>Yes, "The Werewolf Disease", it was a manufactured disease that caused physical and mental regression to a more bestial state. It's in Best of JTAS vol 2 or 3, and it'll be in the reprints when they come out.<BR><BR>I always thought nanotechnology would be ideal for zombies. Does the Imperium have nanotech? I wanted to have a patron who is being kept undead by a megacorporation until he'd paid off his debts, a kind of anti-Kai from Lexx. He'd ask the PCs to give him a helping hand, either legally or corporealy.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Monday, October 16, 2000, at 06:28 AM, The Roc wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I seem to recall, that an issue of JTAS had short adventures on <BR>&gt; "werewolves," (Amber Zone??) where the condition was brought on by drugs? <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 1970 15:04:02 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: On-Topic: Sisters of Mercy<BR><BR>One of the stories on the Sisters' site is about finding sequencers that could survive touring and live shows. They rang up a military computer manufacturer in the UIK, and after convincing the guy on the phone that they weren't terrorists, they ordered two rack-mounting indestructable military-grade PCs. They still use them.<BR><BR>This would make a good Traveller cargo or encounter. "Imperial Military grade computers?", "They're for a music group, officer", "Why do they have targeting - 2 on them, then?", "I don't know, officer, but the band will be here soon, I'm sure there's a perfectly innocent explanation".<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:55:34 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Exactly. Every military base I have been on has had at least one store,<BR>&gt; 2 clubs/bars, and a restaurant (chow hall).&nbsp; Just civilianize this model<BR>&gt; and it should work.<BR><BR>The airbase I used to visit frequently ("dependent of retired military"<BR>privileges), had that plus a few extra things tucked away here and<BR>there. Like the 24-hour snack bar down on the flight line. <BR><BR>We only found out about that when we happened to comment on the fact<BR>that it was too late to eat at the BX cafeteria as we were coming out<BR>of a movie at the base theater. Somebody overheard us and told us about<BR>the snack bar.<BR><BR>There could be all sorts of stuff tucked away in the starport that<BR>isn't "advertised", but that you can use freely *if* you know about it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:45:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Heinlein (and Gifford's essay thereon)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Fri, 13 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; By the time I wrote that line, I'd already deleted the reference to the<BR>&gt;&gt; Gifford article, and hadn't paid attention to the link. Later, seeing<BR>&gt;&gt; it quoted in another message, I did check it out. Which involved:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; 1. I had to switch to the 486 that the main modem is on.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Snip&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; 14. shut down a couple of programs to get enough free memory<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; (out of 128 meg!) to run Acrobat Reader.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; *Then* I could read it...<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; What was that about the web making things easy?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, Leonard, if you didn't have quite such a balkanized system<BR>&gt; there, it is actually rather easy...Goldberg isn't actually a good systems<BR>&gt; design model to follow for real-world applications.<BR><BR>Well, the problem is that my main box has some weird quirk we can't<BR>track down. The serial ports *seem* to work. You can send commands to a<BR>modem, and get back the responses. But as soon as the modem connects,<BR>the system gets *nothing* from it. This happens on *both* serial ports.<BR><BR>So the modems are still on the older box.<BR><BR>&gt; Actually, what you should keep an eye out for is an old Shiva netmodem;<BR>&gt; then any system that can attach to a network can dial out on it. ISTR it<BR>&gt; comes with Mac, Dos, and Windows drivers. There's also a multi-port<BR>&gt; version that allows you to attach up to eight modems (of any speed) to it.<BR><BR>I'll be setting up another OS/2 box as a modem server as sone as the<BR>adapter for the 8 port card comes in. And I note that you don't list<BR>OS/2 as being supported. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; As it's old technology by now, there ought to be ones floating about in<BR>&gt; the surplus world out there. Maybe you could trade your old washtub-sized<BR>&gt; hard drive for it ;-)<BR><BR>Actually, I could probably use any of a number of "terminal server" boxes.<BR><BR>And sorry, but other than a couple of old 14" removable diskpacks that<BR>I keep around as historical artifacts, the biggest drives I've got are<BR>a few old full height 5.25" drives. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:07:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Well, _some_ air/rafts do.&nbsp; The cheap ones that use MHD turbines, rather<BR>&gt; than fusion plants.<BR>&gt;&gt;These exist in TNE, and one or two of them have popped out of my head for<BR>&gt; Striker...&nbsp; What can I &gt;say?&nbsp; They cost a fifth of the price!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; MHD means, if I recall correctly, magnetohydrodynamic.&nbsp; What is that,<BR>&gt; exactly?<BR><BR>Basicly, it means you have a conductive fluid flowing thru a tube or<BR>nozzle, with a magnetic field at right angles to the flow, and are<BR>either drawing off an electrical current at right angles to *both* the<BR>flow and magnetic field, or are supplying a current at right angles to<BR>both. <BR><BR>If you are drawing off current, you are slowing down (or cooling off,<BR>or both) the flow to get the energy. <BR><BR>If you are feeding in a current, you are driving the flow. This is how<BR>the liquid sodium is "pumped" in sodium cooled nuclear reactors.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 23:02:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!! was: Re: Extremes of temp/pressure Re: off-topic games<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Sat, 14 Oct 2000, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Or maybe they'll be on the ground and try to dig in. Several observers<BR>&gt;&gt; *died* trying that on St. Helens. They were found later in their cars.<BR>&gt;&gt; Dead of asphyxiation. The ash buried the cars, and 3-6 feet of ash<BR>&gt;&gt; doesn't let air in. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; If they hadn't suffocated, they'd have baked. The ash that close to the<BR>&gt;&gt; volcano was still pretty warm. Warm enough to make the cars unlivable<BR>&gt;&gt; even *with* air. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah, like 6-700 degrees warm, and no oxygen in it, just CO2 and S02.<BR>&gt; Pyroclastic flows are a real nasty thing to be caught in.<BR><BR>I was talking about folks far enough out that they missed the<BR>pyroclastic flow, but got buried in the ashfall. That ash was a lot<BR>cooler.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; It's a minor miracle that the film one guy shot survived. He was<BR>&gt;&gt; *directly* in the path of the ashflow. And had an autowind camera. He's<BR>&gt;&gt; the one who shot the series of still that show the side bulging and<BR>&gt;&gt; then breaking apart into the pyroclastic flow. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; I suspect he knew he'd never get out of it alive, given how long he<BR>&gt;&gt; kept shooting. He shot the film, stuck it in the car, and drove the car<BR>&gt;&gt; behind the ridge he was on before the ashfall made driving impossible. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; But by doing that, the film survived and they were able to find the<BR>&gt;&gt; car. That's a dedicated scientist. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; And while it may be a bit morbid, he'd make an excellent NPC researcher<BR>&gt;&gt; to stick the PCs with.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Randy Johnston, a USGS geologist; the ridge is now named Johnston<BR>&gt; ridge, after him and the new National Park service vistor center there is<BR>&gt; also named for him.<BR><BR>Thanks. I couldn't recall the name.<BR><BR>&gt; (Going to MSH was one of the focal points of my vacation in the northwest<BR>&gt; this year...)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And no that caldera isn't dead...there was a quite visible plume of<BR>&gt; something coming from it when I was there this summer.<BR><BR>One of the local TV stations had a camera crew visit the crater and the<BR>lava dome on the 20th anniversary. The weather wasn't very<BR>co-operative, but you could see some steam and also see that there was<BR>snow near the dome, but not on it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:24:44 GMT<BR>From: "Jeff Rowse" &lt;jeffrowse@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: *That* film and book.<BR><BR>In mail, thousands of words have been written and we seem to be going round <BR>in circles a bit.<BR><BR>Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't Carmen, Johnny and Carl *specifically* <BR>want to join the military?&nbsp; Carmen wanted to be a Navy Pilot, Carl wanted to <BR>do R&amp;D and Johnny was trying to follow Carmen.<BR>The recruiting Sergeant said they could request the trade they wanted but <BR>that there was no guarantee they would get it (ie Johnny in the Navy) - not <BR>quite the same as applying to be (for example) a mailman and being told "No, <BR>you're in the MI now" is it?<BR>**As far as I can recall**, nowhere does ST (the book) state that Military <BR>Service is the only way to citizenship, and the film didn't exactly cover <BR>the *whole* book, did it?<BR><BR>ObTrav?&nbsp; Make sure you have the whole story before you jump (literally) into <BR>something... ("There are no indigenous lifefroms on LV426...")<BR><BR>Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, who *has* read ST and thinks the book was almost, <BR>but not quite, totally unlike the film).<BR><BR>&nbsp; ps I preferred the book...<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3165<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (rly-yb02.mail.aol.com [172.18.146.2]) by air-yb03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:28:15 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yb02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:27:40 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id GAA20251;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:26:47 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:25:17 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id GAA19740<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:25:17 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 06:25:17 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010161025.GAA19740@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3165<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3166<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>Re: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR>Dragons Star<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>RE: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR>RE: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>RE: Starport Administration<BR>RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>RE: Starport administration<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!&nbsp; etc<BR>RE: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!&nbsp; etc<BR>Re: Terrorists<BR>RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>RE: Emergency<BR>Re: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:50:15 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;How would [Dulinor's] changes be different to the existing structure?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Quick, someone, haul out the "In-Persona Debate" material again!!<BR><BR>&nbsp; What do you mean, "again"? With time-lags for X-Boat commo, <BR>some of the correspondents _can't_ have replied yet :|<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:02:09 -0400<BR>From: "Alberti, Joe (TRANS)" &lt;Joe.Alberti@Trans.ge.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>&gt;How would [Dulinor's] changes be different to the existing structure?<BR><BR>I have speculated about this for a while. A few moths ago, I purchased the<BR>TNE Regency Sourcebook on e-Bay.&nbsp;&nbsp; When I was reading about Archduke<BR>Norris's reforms to the Domain of Deneb, I was thinking to myself that all<BR>of this is what Dulinor was thinking of.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Norris has always been put into the light as the great hero, he stood for<BR>the "Classical Imperium."&nbsp; Norris was a contrast to Dulinor.&nbsp; Dulinor wanted<BR>great change&nbsp; quickly (the revolutionary liberal), Norris wants to turn back<BR>the clock (the arch conservative).<BR><BR>I think that given the crisis the Domain was undergoing, Norris saw<BR>Dulinor's ideas as the key to survival of his region.&nbsp; The Regency survived.<BR>Maybe Norris agreed with Dulinor all along, but did not approve of the way<BR>he went about it (the assasination of Strephon).<BR><BR>The survival of the Regency, by the institution of some of Dulinor's ideas,<BR>is some indication that Dulinor's ideas had merit and could work. I will<BR>admit that politics in the Domain of Deneb and Ilelish is on a smaller scale<BR>than the whole 3I.<BR><BR>As far as billions of deaths on Dulinor's hands, I do not see it that way.<BR>I saw Lucan's instigation of the Black War as the cause.&nbsp; Lucan's actions<BR>and the Black War are what killed the Imperium permanently.&nbsp; Hard Times does<BR>mention this. <BR><BR>Another question:&nbsp; I wonder if Lucan had more maturity, education, and noble<BR>preparation, he would have been&nbsp; a better emperor.&nbsp; It seems Strephon did<BR>not pay much attention to him.&nbsp; I see in the GURPS timeline, Lucan is going<BR>to the Naval Academy.&nbsp; I am very curious how this is going to turn out.&nbsp; My<BR>years as a naval officer certainly helped me to mature, maybe it will do the<BR>same for Lucan.<BR><BR>Now here I am talking about this like it is the real world and not some<BR>game!<BR><BR>Joe Alberti<BR>"Long Live Emperor Dulinor!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 05:18:29 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR><BR>&gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!&nbsp; etc<BR>...<BR>&gt;[1]:&nbsp; Lawyers in battledress.<BR><BR>"I don't send solicitor's letters. I like to apply a bit of..._pressure_."<BR><BR>&nbsp; :&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:07:15 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Dragons Star<BR><BR>Hello friends,<BR><BR>yesterday I re-read a comic book I bought a couple of years back, and i was <BR>amazed. The two main characters could also be characters in a Traveller <BR>game. To me, they are an excellent example of an ex-scout and a rogue. The <BR>book is called Dragons Star, was written by Mary Ann Bramstrup and drawn <BR>by Ian Carr. If you see it, check it out, but its probably hard to find as <BR>it was published in 1989.<BR>The feeling is very Travellerish, although the Tech is somewhat different <BR>(instant Jump, etc, AIs).<BR><BR>Id like to know if anybody else knows this series, and if there ever have <BR>been more issues than are included in the first collection (called Book <BR>One). Id love to see more, but i know the chances are probably pretty slim.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:21:48 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>Not strictly an answer to the question, but I was inspired by scenes<BR>from one of the Clint Eastwood/Lee van Cleef spaghetti westerns<BR>(the one where Clint kind of intrudes on Lee's bounty hunter business)<BR>for an adventure on Wonstar (where the second city is sort of old-westish<BR>with a bit more tech). Since the characters were on a head hunt, it<BR>seemed to fit right in.<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:43:40 -0400<BR>From: "Alberti, Joe (TRANS)" &lt;Joe.Alberti@Trans.ge.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR><BR>Thank you Paul.<BR><BR>Joe Alberti<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: Paul Harris [mailto:paul.harris@dytech.com.au]<BR>Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2000 9:54 AM<BR>To: Alberti, Joe (TRANS)<BR>Subject: RE: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: Alberti, Joe (TRANS)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Sent: 14/10/00 3:45<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;The TNE Suppliment "Survival Margin"&nbsp; provides some insight into the<BR>&gt;character and motivations of Archduke Dulinor.&nbsp; I use this excellent<BR>&gt;book<BR>&gt;along with the Rebellion Sourcebook and Hard Times as my primary<BR>&gt;references<BR>&gt;for all my MegaTraveller campaigns.<BR><BR>Thanks Joe :) <BR>I actually have these books as well, but could never find the wealth of<BR>information you have provided me with. Guess I wasn't really looking....<BR><BR>&gt;I have been fascinated by Archduke Dulinor since he was first published<BR>&gt;in<BR>&gt;1987.&nbsp; Of all the personalities in the Traveller universe, I have<BR>always<BR>&gt;has<BR>&gt;the most interest and admiration for Dulinor.&nbsp; I know these words set<BR>me<BR>&gt;up<BR>&gt;for a large amount of abuse on this list, but I enjoy the Rebellion Era<BR>&gt;and<BR>&gt;MegaTraveller far more than any other version of the game.&nbsp; This is<BR>what<BR>&gt;keeps me interested in the game since 1987.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Joe, I could not imagine why any fellow Traveller player would abuse<BR>another for playing the game, whatever form it came in. I play both MT<BR>and TNE, depending what mood I am in. I am presently doing a classic era<BR>game (actually more pre-rebellion than classic), using the TNE rules. I<BR>own CT, MT, TNE, T4 and GT, and have refereed the first four. <BR>Don't worry about what others think.... just ejoy the game<BR><BR>:)<BR><BR><BR>Paul Harris<BR><BR>- --Traveller Referee since 1984.<BR>- --"There is no Traveller Canon.... there is only a game!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:21:41 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>Joe Alberti wrote:<BR>&gt; I think that given the crisis the Domain was undergoing, Norris<BR>&gt; saw Dulinor's ideas as the key to survival of his region.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt; Regency survived. Maybe Norris agreed with Dulinor all along,<BR>&gt; but did not approve of the way he went about it (the assasination<BR>&gt; of Strephon).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The survival of the Regency, by the institution of some of<BR>&gt; Dulinor's ideas, is some indication that Dulinor's ideas had<BR>&gt; merit and could work. I will admit that politics in the Domain<BR>&gt; of Deneb and Ilelish is on a smaller scale than the whole 3I.<BR><BR>I think my opinions are&nbsp; coloured&nbsp; by&nbsp; the&nbsp; sort&nbsp; of&nbsp; work&nbsp; I&nbsp; do<BR>(implementing/installing computer systems).&nbsp; In&nbsp; RL&nbsp; ...&nbsp; in&nbsp; the<BR>corporate world, and in politics, there are a lot of good&nbsp; ideas.<BR>But 9 times out of 10 little or no serious thought has been given<BR>to how to implement them.&nbsp; And a bad implementation can cause far<BR>more harm than the good thing that you're trying to implement can<BR>bring.&nbsp; That's part of the reason the world's&nbsp; in&nbsp; such&nbsp; a&nbsp; mess:<BR>good ideas poorly implemented.<BR><BR>So too with Dulinor.&nbsp; It doesn't matter how good Dulinor's&nbsp; ideas<BR>were, he so badly mishandled their implementation that&nbsp; it&nbsp; would<BR>have been far better for him not&nbsp; to&nbsp; have&nbsp; tried&nbsp; in&nbsp; the&nbsp; first<BR>place.<BR><BR>&gt; As far as billions of deaths on Dulinor's hands, I do not see<BR>&gt; it that way. I saw Lucan's instigation of the Black War as the<BR>&gt; cause.&nbsp; Lucan's actions and the Black War are what killed the<BR>&gt; Imperium permanently.&nbsp; Hard Times does mention this.<BR><BR>Lucan's unsuitablity for the role of Emperor makes&nbsp; him&nbsp; an&nbsp; easy<BR>target for blame, but lets not forget that Lucan came to power as<BR>a result of Dulinor's botched assassination of Strephon.&nbsp; Dulinor<BR>began the whole mess, by the time the Black War&nbsp; started&nbsp; it&nbsp; was<BR>"too late for the pebbles to vote." ... In other words there&nbsp; was<BR>an inevitable chain of events which all goes&nbsp; back&nbsp; to&nbsp; Dulinor's<BR>act of betrayal.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:20:04 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport Administration<BR><BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of<BR>&gt; Katharine Whitchurch<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I think you are viewing a starport as being like an<BR>&gt; &gt; airport. It makes more sense to think of it as a small<BR>&gt; &gt; town with port facilities.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've been following most of this, and I think people are missing the<BR>&gt; political dimension.<BR>&gt;<BR>[snip]<BR><BR>I agree - and IMTU politics is the key to how starrports are managed.<BR><BR>&gt; The starport administrator does not want to get into a<BR>&gt; pissing competition with the planetary authorities.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Imperium does not want to either be or be seen to be a<BR>&gt; colonial power, or exersising colonial prerogatives on<BR>&gt; planetary soil.<BR>&gt;<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Imperium does not rule worlds, it rules the space<BR>&gt; between the worlds. Imperial Authorities should not<BR>&gt; make the mistake of setting up little worlds behind an<BR>&gt; extrality fence.<BR>&gt;<BR>And herein lies the key...IMTU. When the Imperium was established,<BR>Cleon was a trading magnate, not a politician, and what he wanted<BR>was profit rather than simple power. War costs money, and that means<BR>reduced profits - so he wanted to avoid war. Trade needs a reliable<BR>means of access, so he wanted that. Hence the "rules the space<BR>between worlds, not the worlds" bit.<BR><BR>Besides, at first the Imperium was too weak to be a military-political<BR>empire anyway.<BR><BR>So - worlds themselves are politically independant in a controlled<BR>trade area. The links between the controlled and independant area<BR>are essential, and these are the starports. Each world _must_ have<BR>a Starport Authority to have trade, so the worlds need to create one<BR>(and only one, since the Imperium deals with worlds for trade).<BR><BR>On the other hand, the Imperium insists on its trade laws, tariffs and<BR>taxes, so once a Starport Authority exists, the Imperium must have<BR>at least a measure of control over it. To deal with that, IMTU the<BR>port<BR>is set up by the world, not the Imperium, and the world is responsible<BR>for managing security between the port and the world. The Authority<BR>is responsible for _all_ the landing sites and orbital stations used<BR>for<BR>trade (so there could be more than one, but they are all considered<BR>to be part of the world's Starport).<BR><BR>The Imperium expects paperwork and records for all traffic in and out<BR>of the Starport, and someone has to do that. Whoever it is - local or<BR>not - is paid by the Imperium, not the world. The bigger the Starport,<BR>the more likely it is that that role (I call them Starport Managers)<BR>will be<BR>directly responsible to an Imperial noble - who will get much of his<BR>money from the trade going through the Starport.<BR><BR>So, the port staff are usually local, perhaps even to the top level,<BR>but<BR>they are controlled - as far as a space traveller is concerned - by<BR>Imperium trade laws. On the other hand, once the traveller wants<BR>to enter the world (or leave it) the port security is controlled by<BR>the<BR>world itself and _its_ taxes and tarrifs might apply. That also means<BR>that trade is more profitable carried out _inside_ the Starport for<BR>the Free Traders and _outside_ it for the locals. So, you get the<BR>"two towns" thing - a port that has its own businesses and Imperium<BR>rules and laws and a port town with planetary laws. Canon, with<BR>a logical reason....<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:53:54 +0100<BR>From: "Mark Preston" &lt;mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Legate Legion<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Doug, in your guise as the mighty &amp; wise "Penguin Boy",<BR>&gt; could you please<BR>&gt; explain why the movie Darkstar is the perfect Traveller Movie?<BR>&gt;<BR>Well, IMHO it could be the fantastic boredom of the poor sods in the<BR>ship, the wierd and bizzare aliens around (especially the poor little<BR>thing that gets an injection), the superb technology, the stupid<BR>surfing idea that one of the characters comes up with or many others.<BR>But, personally, I think it has to be the philosophical talking<BR>bomb...<BR><BR>- --<BR>Mark A. Preston, The Magpie's Nest, Lancashire, UK<BR>Email&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; : mark@mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR>Website : www.mpreston.demon.co.uk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:02:32 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR><BR>Legate Legion writes:<BR>&gt;Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of landing<BR>&gt;pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp; a<BR>&gt;couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport so<BR>&gt;he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so, if<BR>&gt;Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be protected<BR>&gt;by Imperial Marines?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I would say no.&nbsp; The starport extrality is (IMTU) established by treaty<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with the Imperium.&nbsp; I suppose that this would mean that even a class<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; E starport would technically be extraterritorial?&nbsp; Spaceports would<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; be different, but additional starports would presumably require some<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; sort of contract between the planet and the Imperium.&nbsp; Finally, there<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; may be only Imperial Starport Authority Security forces at a starport<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with no military base.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:45:39 -0500<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>At 07:04 PM 10/15/00 -0700, legate@futureone.com wrote:<BR>&gt;From: Thom Harris &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I'm sorry, I don't have just one but I have taken stuff from ALL of the<BR>&gt;&gt;following:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"Screamers", Parts of "Blade Runner", many parts of the"Alien" series, Road<BR>&gt;&gt;Warrior series (or Mad Max, depending on who you ask), "Saturn 3", Silent<BR>&gt;&gt;Running, "2001", "2010", "The Arrival" (Very Good) &amp; "the Second Arrival"<BR>&gt;&gt;(Just Good), parts of "Total Recall", some parts of "Wing Commander",<BR>&gt;&gt;"Logan's Run", parts of "Johnny Mnemonic" and of course both of the<BR>&gt;&gt;"Terminator" movies. Lots and lots more, but I will let someone else post<BR>&gt;&gt;some of their favorites now!<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; And, what about Dark Star?&nbsp; Does anyone understand that this is the<BR>&gt;Traveller Movie of Traveller Movies?&nbsp; And, you must add in Army of Darkness,<BR>&gt;a good second place Traveller Movie of Traveller Movies.<BR><BR>How about THE DOGS OF WAR with Chris Walken? Granted there is a bit awful<BR>technobabble&nbsp; in the middle, but i've used it as the basis for a mercenary<BR>ticket with two different groups.<BR><BR>And of course doing the corrupt customs officer as a NPC was fun.<BR><BR>Les<BR><BR><BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:17:39 -0400<BR>From: Kurt Feltenberger &lt;kurt@blazenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>At 10:45 AM 10/16/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;How about THE DOGS OF WAR with Chris Walken? Granted there is a bit awful<BR>&gt;technobabble&nbsp; in the middle, but i've used it as the basis for a mercenary<BR>&gt;ticket with two different groups.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And of course doing the corrupt customs officer as a NPC was fun.<BR><BR><BR>I've always thought that Congo (the movie) was a good template for a <BR>Traveller adventure.&nbsp; Lost city, legendary defenders, and a local <BR>revolution all make for some interesting adventures.<BR><BR><BR>Kurt Feltenberger<BR><BR>"To our Country! In her intercourse with foreign nations,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; may she always be in the right, but our country, right or wrong!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ~Stephen Decatur<BR><BR><BR>mailto:kurt@blazenet.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:38:46 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt; From: Megan Robertson<BR>&gt; This Imanoble guy will have to hire his own security goons, who may or<BR>&gt; may not protect him to the uttermost when the chips are down. And who, if<BR>&gt; sufficiently bribed, might let local villains hide out there... hmmm... <BR>&gt; characters hired as said security goons when down on their luck, and a <BR>&gt; whole saga of events ensue.....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You rat, Legate, you've given me an idea now..... :-)<BR><BR>It's a good idea, too.&nbsp; It can be used fairly generally:&nbsp; what happens when<BR>any of the rent-a-cops and mercs infesting the Imperium start getting ideas<BR>above their station.&nbsp; Packing the ranks with some local crooks, and<BR>protecting the ones with a bit more cash... Oh my yes!<BR><BR>The good thing is that these scum can actually be well equipped with high<BR>tech gear, given Count Imanoble is (of course!) fabulously wealthy.&nbsp; The<BR>only advantage the PCs have is superior training and discipline....&nbsp; This<BR>sounds like Striker, as well as "normal" Traveller.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:55:06 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!&nbsp; etc<BR><BR>&gt; From: John Groth <BR>&gt; 1.&nbsp; Our suits [1] are unhappy with your failure to note AuricTech<BR>&gt; Shipyards' trademark rights to the term "Gold-Plated [tm]" in your<BR>&gt; post.&nbsp; When our suits get unhappy, they get concerned.&nbsp; And when they<BR>&gt; get concerned, people get sued.&nbsp; Now, I ain't sayin' it's gonna be you,<BR>&gt; but I also ain't sayin' it ain't.<BR><BR>Ha!&nbsp; AuricTech think they're tough guys cause they've got lawyers!&nbsp; Hawkins<BR>&amp; Ouzogh have *accountants*!&nbsp; Trained by the Interstellar Revenue Service! <BR>Yes - we have Tax Marines...<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:26:56 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!&nbsp; etc<BR><BR>We guarantee that out TL9 Air/rafts come completely equipped with artificial<BR>gold paint. We go the extra kilometer for only Cr108,629 or for the TL11<BR>patron Cr87,540 buys you a state of the art craft.<BR><BR>Find them through Vehicles &amp; Equipment from www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:16:03 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Terrorists<BR><BR>At 18:02 -0400 15/10/00, "Katharine Whitchurch" <BR>&lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I'd disagree, as war is conducted between states. For the UK to be in a<BR>&gt;state of war with the IRA, it must recognise the IRA as a state, and states<BR>&gt;have territory. Both sides knew what they were doing- the IRA in trying to<BR>&gt;get recognised as a belligerent, and the British in treating them basically<BR>&gt;as a criminal conspiracy (well, until the deal went down, and they started<BR>&gt;treating them as a political faction).<BR><BR>That is actually the point I was making - the UK did not accept that <BR>the IRA is a state so therefore dealt with their actions as criminal <BR>acts. By doing so the government deliberately does not in any way <BR>further legitimise the actions of the IRA, but at the same time <BR>limits the responses that it can legally take. For example, in one <BR>case a soldier was prosecuted under civil/criminal law for a shooting <BR>which caused a death. However, he was acting within the 'rules of <BR>engagement' and the army kept him in service for the duration of his <BR>prison term. Had the UK been at war, the prosecution would not have <BR>happened. And AFAIK the UK government has not treated the IRA as a <BR>political faction as such (I think they are still a proscribed <BR>organisation) but has dealt with Sinn Fein and indirectly with the <BR>IRA.<BR><BR>&gt;I dunno. Doug, how much of this got covered in G:T Ground Forces ?<BR><BR>It will be interesting to see.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:47:25 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>Not so much a Trav film as a generic RPG film&nbsp; is&nbsp; "The Unnamable<BR>Returns".&nbsp; There&nbsp; is&nbsp; a&nbsp; wonderful&nbsp; scene&nbsp; where&nbsp; the&nbsp; characters<BR>discover a demon fused with a girl&nbsp; in&nbsp; some&nbsp; tunnels&nbsp; under&nbsp; the<BR>graveyard.&nbsp; The scientist type character figures out that&nbsp; (IIRC)<BR>a shot of his insulin will trick the demon into thinking the girl<BR>is dieing and it will leave her ... thus freeing the&nbsp; girl.&nbsp; They<BR>give her the shot and withdraw a few feet.&nbsp; *Then*&nbsp; one&nbsp; of&nbsp; them<BR>asks "What will the demon do after its left the girl?"<BR><BR>"Oh, dear." says the scientist "I hadn't thought of that."<BR><BR>Classic!&nbsp; Anyone recognise standard PC behaviour in this?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Anyway, for Trav movies I nominate "Dune" and "Red Dawn", and the<BR>TV series "Star Trek: Deep Space 9" and "Farscape".<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:00:58 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Emergency<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; I think he was just doing research for the GF cover (that <BR>&gt; thing is *awesome*)<BR><BR>GF?&nbsp; As in "girl friend"?&nbsp; GURPS:GirlFriend&nbsp; ...&nbsp; now&nbsp; there's&nbsp; a<BR>supplement that would ... er ... stir up interest.<BR><BR>Just kidding.&nbsp; So when is GF expected out?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 08:11:22 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR><BR>I had written:<BR>&gt;&gt; MHD means, if I recall correctly, magnetohydrodynamic.&nbsp; What is that,<BR>&gt;&gt; exactly?<BR><BR>You replied:<BR>&gt;Basicly, it means you have a conductive fluid flowing thru a tube or<BR>[deleted]<BR><BR>Thanks.&nbsp; That gives me a very good basic understanding (all a referee<BR>needs).<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:06:49 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>I don't have an answer but, I think it would depend more on whether he was<BR>an Imperial Noble or Local Noble.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Ian Ferguson" &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 10:02 AM<BR>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Legate Legion writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of landing<BR>&gt; &gt;pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp;<BR>a<BR>&gt; &gt;couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport<BR>so<BR>&gt; &gt;he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so,<BR>if<BR>&gt; &gt;Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be<BR>protected<BR>&gt; &gt;by Imperial Marines?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I would say no.&nbsp; The starport extrality is (IMTU) established by<BR>treaty<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; with the Imperium.&nbsp; I suppose that this would mean that even a<BR>class<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; E starport would technically be extraterritorial?&nbsp; Spaceports<BR>would<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; be different, but additional starports would presumably require<BR>some<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; sort of contract between the planet and the Imperium.&nbsp; Finally,<BR>there<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; may be only Imperial Starport Authority Security forces at a<BR>starport<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; with no military base.<BR>&gt; Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:20:22 -0400<BR>From: Christopher Thrash &lt;thrash@io.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:55:34 PST<BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt;There could be all sorts of stuff tucked away in the starport that<BR>&gt;isn't "advertised", but that you can use freely *if* you know about it.<BR><BR>Every airbase, army airfield, or civilian airport I've ever stopped at has<BR>a room, usually located near the base operations desk but sometimes in the<BR>fixed base operator's office, that has several junk food and soda machines,<BR>a coffee pot, and a couch. You might not understand why the couch is<BR>important until you've been weathered in there for a couple of days, living<BR>out of the machines. (Most pilots I know carry a roll of quarters for just<BR>such occasions.) A well-appointed example will have a shower stall and<BR>changing space in the nearest latrine. One of the things I really enjoy<BR>about cross-country flying is the sense that aviation people are pretty<BR>much the same everywhere, and look out for each other this way: I see the<BR>junk food room, and know I'm not totally on my own. <BR><BR>While starships won't be subject to the same limitations, I imagine that<BR>there will be similar universals in starports throughout human-frequented<BR>space.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:29:39 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>Starport status would require that the facilities be public, so Count Imanoble IV inheriting his dad's starship-landing facilities won't upset anyone as they're private to begin with.<BR><BR>Public starship-landing facilities would be provided by, or at least with the agreement of, local government, which answers to the Imperium. The local government doesn't want a blockade or sanctions, so they license the Starport and it gets all the usual priveledges. Quite aside from anything else, Local Government will usually recognize the trade and revenue benefits of having a starport on-world. They might not like what goes on there, but they like the money it puts into the on-world economy.<BR>A world getting popular support for an unsanctioned starport, or the existence of a rogue/pirate starport would be a good scenario seed.<BR><BR>During wartime or a state of Imperial emergency, the Count will feel the pressure to make his facilities available to Imperial forces. He may not like the troops making the place look untidy, but it beats being seen to be disloyal.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>PS - Sorry for the messages from 1970, that's fixed now. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; ----- Original Message ----- <BR>&gt; From: "Ian Ferguson" &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt; <BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt; <BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 10:02 AM <BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Starport administration <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; Legate Legion writes: <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of landing <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp; <BR>&gt; a <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport <BR>&gt; so <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so, <BR>&gt; if <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be <BR>&gt; protected <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;by Imperial Marines? <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I would say no.&nbsp; The starport extrality is (IMTU) established by <BR>&gt; treaty <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; with the Imperium.&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:20:46 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Joe Alberti wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; As far as billions of deaths on Dulinor's hands, I do not see<BR>&gt; &gt; it that way. I saw Lucan's instigation of the Black War as the<BR>&gt; &gt; cause.&nbsp; Lucan's actions and the Black War are what killed the<BR>&gt; &gt; Imperium permanently.&nbsp; Hard Times does mention this.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Lucan's unsuitablity for the role of Emperor makes&nbsp; him&nbsp; an&nbsp; easy<BR>&gt; target for blame, but lets not forget that Lucan came to power as<BR>&gt; a result of Dulinor's botched assassination of Strephon.&nbsp; Dulinor<BR>&gt; began the whole mess, by the time the Black War&nbsp; started&nbsp; it&nbsp; was<BR>&gt; "too late for the pebbles to vote." ... In other words there&nbsp; was<BR>&gt; an inevitable chain of events which all goes&nbsp; back&nbsp; to&nbsp; Dulinor's<BR>&gt; act of betrayal.<BR><BR>Uhhhh, no.<BR><BR>Not at all.<BR><BR>Dulinor strated the ball rolling by assasinating (or not) Strephon.<BR><BR>Lucan saw his chance and made a naked grab for power by killing his<BR>brother, who was suddenly the only person standing between him and the<BR>throne, was isolated in the chaotic aftermath of the assasination, and<BR>Lucan had a SMG handy. It was hardly 'inevitable'. <BR><BR>Dulinor's assasinatino of Strephon did not mean that Lucan rose<BR>automatically to power. Lucan had to commit a worse crime to get there. <BR><BR>Dulinor at least had some shaky legal/traditional grounds for doing what<BR>he did ("Right by Assasination"); while parricide has long been a<BR>traditional way to power, it's never been legal...<BR><BR>If Dulinor was a demagogue, then Lucan was a murderous psychopath.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3166<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (rly-zd03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.227]) by air-zd02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:25:11 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zd03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:23:51 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA45284;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:22:54 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:20:41 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA45211<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:20:41 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:20:41 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010161720.NAA45211@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3166<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3167<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Dark Star<BR>Civilian vs Military with ref to ST<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>RE: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Board games<BR>MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR>Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>Re: Starport Administration<BR>Re: Starport Administration<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>Jump Time<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:26:44 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Dark Star<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 22:45:10 -0700<BR>&gt; From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Doug, in your guise as the mighty &amp; wise "Penguin Boy", could you<BR>&gt; please explain why the movie Darkstar is the perfect Traveller Movie? <BR><BR>Since he's probably at work, I'll step in as PB Brother to handle this.<BR><BR>"Dark Star" (two words) is self-evidently the perfect Trav movie.&nbsp; We<BR>have:<BR><BR>* The dilapidated, aging scout ship prone to plot-driving malfunctions<BR>* The crew of misfits who have come gradually to hate one another yet<BR>&nbsp; have to work together despite this<BR>* Laser injuries<BR>* AI gone horribly awry<BR>* The hunt for a loose alien animal aboard ship<BR><BR>And, most tellingly:<BR><BR>* Things blowing up real good.<BR><BR>Q.E.D.<BR><BR>By the way, among its other delights, Dark Star can be viewed as the rough<BR>draft for Alien.&nbsp; Watch it with that in mind and you'll see what I mean.<BR><BR>Best line:&nbsp; "Don't talk to me about intellgent life!&nbsp; Give me something I<BR>can blow up!"<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:55:33 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Civilian vs Military with ref to ST<BR><BR>Just a thought triggered by the biannual ST flame war - What if the <BR>role and scope adopted by the military was larger than that in <BR>present society? We are all assuming that the society that the book <BR>advocates follows a 20th century model. What if certain parts of <BR>industry fell within a military remit? This could be indirectly <BR>(nationalised industry, even that which is part public owned) based, <BR>or directly (the companies are operative arms of the military which <BR>runs its own supply chain).<BR><BR>Dom<BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 09:08:06 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of landing<BR>&gt; pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp; a<BR>&gt; couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport so<BR>&gt; he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so, if<BR>&gt; Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be protected<BR>&gt; by Imperial Marines?<BR><BR>Unlikely. The extrality area is likely negotiated as part of the treaty<BR>that brings a world into the Imperium.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:17:44 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt; Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Joe Alberti wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; As far as billions of deaths on Dulinor's hands, I do not see<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; it that way. I saw Lucan's instigation of the Black War as the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; cause.&nbsp; Lucan's actions and the Black War are what killed the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Imperium permanently.&nbsp; Hard Times does mention this.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Lucan's unsuitablity for the role of Emperor makes&nbsp; him&nbsp; an&nbsp; easy<BR>&gt; &gt; target for blame, but lets not forget that Lucan came to power as<BR>&gt; &gt; a result of Dulinor's botched assassination of Strephon.&nbsp; Dulinor<BR>&gt; &gt; began the whole mess, by the time the Black War&nbsp; started&nbsp; it&nbsp; was<BR>&gt; &gt; "too late for the pebbles to vote." ... In other words there&nbsp; was<BR>&gt; &gt; an inevitable chain of events which all goes&nbsp; back&nbsp; to&nbsp; Dulinor's<BR>&gt; &gt; act of betrayal.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Uhhhh, no.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Not at all.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dulinor strated the ball rolling by assasinating (or not) Strephon.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Lucan saw his chance and made a naked grab for power by killing<BR>&gt; his brother, who was suddenly the only person standing between him<BR>&gt; and the throne, was isolated in the chaotic aftermath of the<BR>&gt; assasination, and Lucan had a SMG handy. It was hardly 'inevitable'. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dulinor's assasinatino of Strephon did not mean that Lucan rose<BR>&gt; automatically to power. Lucan had to commit a worse crime to get<BR>&gt; there. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dulinor at least had some shaky legal/traditional grounds for <BR>&gt; doing what he did ("Right by Assasination"); while parricide has<BR>&gt; long been a traditional way to power, it's never been legal...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If Dulinor was a demagogue, then Lucan was a murderous psychopath.<BR><BR>First,&nbsp; Dulinor's&nbsp; claim&nbsp; to&nbsp; the&nbsp; "Right&nbsp; by&nbsp; Assassination"&nbsp; is<BR>completely erroneous.&nbsp; There have only been 2 successful uses&nbsp; of<BR>this Right: in both cases the assassin had&nbsp; the&nbsp; support&nbsp; of&nbsp; the<BR>Moot, and the 'assassin' remained in the Palace to be&nbsp; judged&nbsp; by<BR>the&nbsp; Moot.&nbsp; (I&nbsp; admit&nbsp; the&nbsp; Regency&nbsp; case&nbsp; was&nbsp; a&nbsp;&nbsp; little&nbsp;&nbsp; more<BR>complicated but not&nbsp; ultimately&nbsp; different.)&nbsp; Dulinor&nbsp; did&nbsp; *not*<BR>have the support of the Moot prior to the event, and he ran&nbsp; from<BR>the Palace (denying the Moot the chance to accept the&nbsp; act&nbsp; after<BR>the event).&nbsp; Thus his claim was a completely bogus sham!<BR><BR>Next, was Dulinor responsible for the acts of Lucan's?&nbsp; Obveously<BR>not Lucan's specific acts, but consider what would of happened if<BR>Lucan hadn't been present.&nbsp; Varin would have become Emperor.&nbsp; Two<BR>hypothesises (*not* mutually exclusive), either&nbsp; of&nbsp; which&nbsp; would<BR>result in a similar outcome:<BR><BR>1) We have very little hard data on what Varin was like&nbsp; ...&nbsp; and<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the dead tend to be canonised.&nbsp; Since Varin&nbsp; and&nbsp; Lucan&nbsp; being<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; together was not presented as a strange and unusual&nbsp; occurance<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; I believe it was not ... and&nbsp; if&nbsp; they&nbsp; regularly&nbsp; spent&nbsp; time<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; together then we can postulate that Varin could normally&nbsp; hold<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; his own with Lucan.&nbsp; In other words maybe Varin was&nbsp; not&nbsp; that<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; dissimilar to Lucan.&nbsp; (Its just that Varin never had a&nbsp; reason<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; to murder Lucan.)&nbsp; Do not assume that just because&nbsp; Lucan&nbsp; was<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; bad Varin must be good.<BR><BR>2) The speed at which the 3I fragmented has often been&nbsp; cited&nbsp; as<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; evidence that the 3I was exceedingly vulnerable at the time of<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; the assassination.&nbsp; This being so, unless Varin turned out&nbsp; to<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; be a highly charismatic&nbsp; and&nbsp; wise&nbsp; leader&nbsp; the&nbsp; fragmentation<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; would have occured anyway ... maybe slower, maybe not.<BR><BR>Now I don't know how much truth (if any) there is&nbsp; in&nbsp; either&nbsp; of<BR>these hypothesises, but I strongly suspect that if&nbsp; Prince&nbsp; Varin<BR>had taken the throne instead of&nbsp; Lucan it would have made&nbsp; little<BR>difference in the end.&nbsp; And if the 3I is destroyed under Varin as<BR>under Lucan then the blame must&nbsp; fall&nbsp; back&nbsp; on&nbsp; Dulinor&nbsp; as&nbsp; the<BR>instigator of the chaos.<BR><BR>A further observation (IIRC 'cos I don't have my books with&nbsp; me):<BR>Lucan&nbsp; killed&nbsp; Varin&nbsp; before&nbsp; he&nbsp; should&nbsp; have&nbsp; known&nbsp; about&nbsp; the<BR>assassination.&nbsp; I wonder if Dulinor&nbsp; set&nbsp; him&nbsp; up&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; further<BR>distraction during the getaway.&nbsp; If *that* were so&nbsp; then&nbsp; Dulinor<BR>would be directly responsible&nbsp; for&nbsp; putting&nbsp; Lucan&nbsp; (a&nbsp; murderous<BR>psychopath) on the throne.<BR><BR>To&nbsp; summarise:&nbsp; Dulinor&nbsp; was&nbsp; either&nbsp;&nbsp; directly&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp;&nbsp; indirectly<BR>responsible for Lucan ascending the throne.&nbsp; And&nbsp; even&nbsp; if&nbsp; Lucan<BR>hadn't ascended the throne the 3I would still have&nbsp; fallen&nbsp; as&nbsp; a<BR>result of Dulinor's actions.&nbsp; Therefore Dulinor is guilty.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>"I know you believe you understand what you think I said but I am<BR>not sure you realise that what you heard is not what I meant."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:44:20 GMT<BR>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:20:46 -0700<BR>&gt;From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Dulinor's assasinatino of Strephon did not mean that Lucan rose<BR>&gt;automatically to power. Lucan had to commit a worse crime to get there. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dulinor at least had some shaky legal/traditional grounds for doing what<BR>&gt;he did ("Right by Assasination"); while parricide has long been a<BR>&gt;traditional way to power, it's never been legal...<BR><BR>But, it seems to me that Dulinor's actions created a power vacuum,<BR>which he himself didn't bother to fill, leaving the way clear for<BR>Lucan.&nbsp; I'm not sure what he thought he was playing at (I'm hindered<BR>here by only going by Survival Margin, since I skipped from CT to TNE<BR>without ever getting into MT).&nbsp; Assassinate the emperor, then spend 4<BR>months incommunicado travelling back home?&nbsp; Apparently make no attempt<BR>to secure support from other nobles outside Ilelish?&nbsp; It almost makes<BR>me wonder whether his decision to kill Strephon was made on the spur<BR>of the moment, as he set out for Capital, and he never planned any<BR>further ahead than that...<BR><BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 10:27:07 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>At 08:38 AM 10/15/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some<BR>others<BR>&gt;out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into<BR>their<BR>&gt;games?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The Man Who Would Be King<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ---------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 11:32:46 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>&gt;From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;And, both the story and the film are titled "Nightflyers". Martin is a <BR>&gt;great source of Traveller inspiration, "The Stone City" is a classic, <BR>&gt;as is _After the Festival_.&nbsp; OTOH, most of his work is pretty damn <BR>&gt;bleak.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes...good author.&nbsp; Try reading "Sandkings" for several interesting<BR>NPCs and critters.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Hint:&nbsp; Don't buy pets from 'Wu and Shade', just like no sane sophont<BR>would buy a cigarette lighter from Ditzie<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ----------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:26:02 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Board games<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; I think it would be really fun to battle out the Rebellion. It would be made<BR>&gt;in multiple parts with add ons, like The Gamers line of civil war games.<BR>&gt;(Highly recommended.)<BR><BR>ISTR there once being talk of doing this sort of thing as part of DGP's MegaTraveller Journal (called "Marc Miller's 'Battles of the Rebellion'" or some such).&nbsp; Of course it never came to be, and whether any development beyond simple brainstorming was ever actually done isn't something I could say.&nbsp; Anyhow, like you said, it's something I'd love to have seen.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:35:58 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson posted:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; MHD means, if I recall correctly, magnetohydrodynamic.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; What is that,<BR>&gt; &gt; exactly?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Basicly, it means you have a conductive fluid flowing thru a tube or<BR>&gt; nozzle, with a magnetic field at right angles to the flow, and are<BR>&gt; either drawing off an electrical current at right angles to *both* the<BR>&gt; flow and magnetic field, or are supplying a current at right angles to<BR>&gt; both. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you are drawing off current, you are slowing down (or cooling off,<BR>&gt; or both) the flow to get the energy. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If you are feeding in a current, you are driving the flow. This is how<BR>&gt; the liquid sodium is "pumped" in sodium cooled nuclear reactors.<BR><BR>Is this the science behind the so-called "caterpillar drive" in the movie <BR>"The Hunt For Red October"?<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:43:23 -0400<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 01:13:38 -0400 (EDT),<BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Paul wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;How would [Dulinor's] changes be different to the existing structure?<BR><BR>&gt;Quick, someone, haul out the "In-Persona Debate" material again!!<BR><BR>That's a fair amount of material.&nbsp; I think, however, that "Gallatin's"<BR>initial statement in the debate outlines Dulinor's position fairly well,<BR>and I have transcribed it here:<BR><BR>Toward an Imperium for the People<BR><BR>by "Gallatin"<BR><BR>The history of the Imperium is one of both peace and stability, and<BR>conflict and instability. Throughout that thousand-plus years, however, one<BR>feature stands out above all others: The Imperium exists for the benefit of<BR>the megacorporate interests trading between the Member Worlds, not for the<BR>benefit of those worlds themselves, nor for the benefit of the citizens of<BR>the Imperium who live on these worlds.<BR><BR>What _is_ the Imperium, to most? It is a distant abstraction, that has no<BR>perceptible effect on their lives. The Imperium does not "interfere" in the<BR>"internal governance" of the Member Worlds, allowing them to maintain<BR>oppressive conditions against their people in some cases, or to continue<BR>"benign" neglect of their needs in others. There is no reason for the<BR>people to look to the Imperium, to say with pride, "I am a citizen of the<BR>Imperium, and my world is an Imperial world." Instead, we see people<BR>identifying with their own regions, their own worlds, their own races - "I<BR>am Vilani." "I am Jonkereen." "I am from Prometheus." "I am from Vilis."<BR><BR>The people do not identify with the Imperium because they see no benefit<BR>from the Imperium. In the abstract, they understand some of the benefits of<BR>the Imperium - protection against incursion by the Vargr or Aslan or<BR>Zhodani or Solomani militant rebels, the economic benefits of the free<BR>trade fostered by the Imperium, and so on - but little of this actually<BR>affects most citizens of the Imperium on a day-to-day basis.<BR><BR>Can the Imperium survive a fundamental crisis? The Civil War of the 600s<BR>was the most serious crisis that the Imperium has faced, and survived it<BR>intact. Yet, at that time, the conditions facing the Imperium were<BR>different. The Imperium had just defeated a Zhodani-led coalition; neither<BR>the Zhodani nor the Vargr represented a serious threat. There was no<BR>hostile Solomani Sphere to contend with. And there were no divergent<BR>interests within the Imperium; there was a commonality of purpose in<BR>integrating the Imperium into a whole. The entire Civil War can be viewed<BR>as "normal" political intrigue, although perhaps a bit bloodier than the<BR>norm.<BR><BR>The Imperium no longer has that commonality of purpose. The rimward domains<BR>have a natural interest in protection from the Solomani and the Aslan,<BR>while the area "behind the claw" has an equal interest in protection from<BR>the Zhodani, and the coreward areas from the Vargr. The trailing areas are<BR>interested in expansion further trailing, and have concerns about K'kree or<BR>Hivers. The Imperial core and the areas bordering the Great Rift are<BR>increasingly isolationist, and concerned with local problems, which the<BR>Imperium refuses to address, as being local or internal matters. Were<BR>simultaneous attacks on two fronts to happen, would the Imperium be able to<BR>pull together to meet the threat? Were an internal crisis to develop, such<BR>as the death of an Emperor without a clear heir, would the Imperium survive<BR>its own internal stresses?<BR><BR>It is only in unity that such a threat can be met, or even prevented. The<BR>unity that we have in name, but do not have in fact. The unity that can be<BR>generated only by drastic changes in the way the Imperium relates to its<BR>member worlds. It is time for the Imperium to abandon its hands-off policy<BR>with respect to local governments, to actively engage the local governments<BR>and the people of the Member Worlds in making their lives better; to be<BR>more responsive to the needs and desires of those same Worlds and those<BR>same people.<BR><BR>This will not be an easy change. It will involve major changes in the<BR>attitudes of much of the Imperial nobility, and may require that<BR>unresponsive nobles be relieved of their titles and responsibilities, and<BR>those given to others who can be counted on to work with the new order. It<BR>will involve the restructuring - by force if necessary - of<BR>unrepresentative or oppressive governments of Member Worlds. And it will<BR>require the devolution of some authority to lower levels, where responses<BR>to changing conditions can be made more quickly. These changes must come<BR>from the top; there is little incentive for the Member Worlds to surrender<BR>sovereignty as would be required, and little incentive for the lower nobles<BR>to give up their power and prerogatives. Perhaps these arguments apply to<BR>the top levels as well - but it is only those top levels who can be<BR>expected to look to the benefit of the Imperium as a whole, and to decide<BR>wisely to that benefit. Time grows short. We cannot know what may trigger<BR>the internal stresses into outright breaks, so we must act quickly to<BR>reduce those stresses, and bind the Imperium into a stronger whole.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:58:09 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>You know. . . using 5FW as a template. . .<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:26 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Board games<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I think it would be really fun to battle out the Rebellion. It would be<BR>made<BR>&gt; &gt;in multiple parts with add ons, like The Gamers line of civil war games.<BR>&gt; &gt;(Highly recommended.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ISTR there once being talk of doing this sort of thing as part of DGP's<BR>MegaTraveller Journal (called "Marc Miller's 'Battles of the Rebellion'" or<BR>some such).&nbsp; Of course it never came to be, and whether any development<BR>beyond simple brainstorming was ever actually done isn't something I could<BR>say.&nbsp; Anyhow, like you said, it's something I'd love to have seen.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Trent<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 13:50:37 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>Concerning new Traveller boardgames, I have the following comments.<BR><BR>First, when I started my project to make an electronic version of Fifth<BR>Frontier War, I tried demo copies of all of the software available to help<BR>you do this. My conclusion: Aide de Camp 2 is by far the best. It is<BR>extremely easy to use, makes great looking games and has lots of useful<BR>features. On the down side, however, it does cost $60. But it is well worth<BR>every cent of the price. I estimate that it took me about 60 hours of effort<BR>to create the ADC2 version of FFW. Mayday was my first attempt, and took<BR>next to no time, maybe four hours. If anyone has ADC2 and owns copies of<BR>Mayday or FFW (required due to copyrights), they can get electronic copies<BR>of these games from me.<BR><BR>Next, for the point of view of a FFW player, I think that a lower level of<BR>detail than you get in FFW would be better for a Rebellion game. If the<BR>playing area represents the entire Imperium, make counters represent fleets<BR>rather than squadrons. There must be enough fleets to make an interesting<BR>game. Otherwise you get a game of those old SPI creations like War in<BR>Europe, but translated into the Traveller universe. Lots of collectors<BR>probably have copies of War in Europe on their shelves, but I doubt that<BR>many ever played it.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Jeffrey Yin &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:58 PM<BR>Subject: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; You know. . . using 5FW as a template. . .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:26 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Board games<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I think it would be really fun to battle out the Rebellion. It would<BR>be<BR>&gt; made<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;in multiple parts with add ons, like The Gamers line of civil war<BR>games.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;(Highly recommended.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ISTR there once being talk of doing this sort of thing as part of DGP's<BR>&gt; MegaTraveller Journal (called "Marc Miller's 'Battles of the Rebellion'"<BR>or<BR>&gt; some such).&nbsp; Of course it never came to be, and whether any development<BR>&gt; beyond simple brainstorming was ever actually done isn't something I could<BR>&gt; say.&nbsp; Anyhow, like you said, it's something I'd love to have seen.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Trent<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:05:07 -0700<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport Administration<BR><BR>One related question that this brought up in my mind is the<BR>question of extradition.&nbsp; If you commit a crime on World A,<BR>and escape the star port or go off planet (or otherwise escape<BR>to Imperial jurisdiction) are you free and clear?<BR><BR>I think that if you could commit any crime and not be sent back, then <BR>every world would either have huge security barriers at every port or <BR>would be hard pressed to maintain local laws within any reasonable<BR>travel distance of the port (which on high tech planets could<BR>include the whole planet).&nbsp; Any crime where the perpetrator<BR>would have any notice that they are about to be caught (many<BR>cases of fraud, etc.) would be unenforceable.&nbsp; There are also<BR>adventures where the consequence of a local crime follows the<BR>PC (like the Traveller adventure).<BR><BR>OTOH, I don't see the Imperium forcing you back for committing<BR>a crime that isn't generally seen as a crime elsewhere.&nbsp; For<BR>examples violating a religious prohibition on one world.<BR><BR>My take is that the Imperium maintains the right to send violators,<BR>or not, based on some criteria.&nbsp; It may be that anything that is<BR>also a crime in Imperial jurisdictions (you are still someplace<BR>where you are considered a criminal for what you have done) is<BR>cause to be returned.&nbsp; Perhaps it is a case where it is based<BR>on its own discretion and the local official decides what is<BR>extraditable.&nbsp; Another alternative is that there is an official<BR>policy on what is extraditable.<BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:30:04 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport Administration<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 5:05 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Starport Administration<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I think that if you could commit any crime and not be sent back, then<BR>&gt; every world would either have huge security barriers at every port<BR>&lt;SNIP&gt;<BR><BR>"Checkpoint Charlie" (the gate between East &amp; West Berlin in the old days)<BR>comes to mind when I read this.<BR><BR>&gt; OTOH, &lt; BIG SNIP&gt;<BR>&gt; summers@alum.mit.edu<BR><BR>I concur pretty much with the rest of summation.<BR><BR>I also want to point out that I always picture "A" starports like the<BR>International areas at most major airports. Duty free shops,<BR>newspaper/magazines/books, cafeterias, restaurants, large waiting areas,<BR>showers in the bathrooms, lockers for storage of personal items, etc. You<BR>are pretty much *stuck* there between connections. If this is your<BR>destination then you have customs and processing stations. Baggage claim<BR>areas, local transportation, maybe a TAS hotel or certainly local ones.<BR><BR>Think of Heathrow or JFK or Frankfurt or Sidney.......<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:30:31 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Bernie McGeehan &lt;einreb62@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>I dont have a lot of familiarity with the 5th Frontier<BR>War, but this has picqued my interest. How tough would<BR>it be to design/develop an online variant? I know next<BR>to nothing about programming, so I defer to wiser<BR>heads than mine. Could be a nice Winter Project for<BR>those of us in the Northern Hemisphere...<BR><BR>- --- Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; Concerning new Traveller boardgames, I have the<BR>&gt; following comments.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; First, when I started my project to make an<BR>&gt; electronic version of Fifth<BR>&gt; Frontier War, I tried demo copies of all of the<BR>&gt; software available to help<BR>&gt; you do this. My conclusion: Aide de Camp 2 is by far<BR>&gt; the best. It is<BR>&gt; extremely easy to use, makes great looking games and<BR>&gt; has lots of useful<BR>&gt; features. On the down side, however, it does cost<BR>&gt; $60. But it is well worth<BR>&gt; every cent of the price. I estimate that it took me<BR>&gt; about 60 hours of effort<BR>&gt; to create the ADC2 version of FFW. Mayday was my<BR>&gt; first attempt, and took<BR>&gt; next to no time, maybe four hours. If anyone has<BR>&gt; ADC2 and owns copies of<BR>&gt; Mayday or FFW (required due to copyrights), they can<BR>&gt; get electronic copies<BR>&gt; of these games from me.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Next, for the point of view of a FFW player, I think<BR>&gt; that a lower level of<BR>&gt; detail than you get in FFW would be better for a<BR>&gt; Rebellion game. If the<BR>&gt; playing area represents the entire Imperium, make<BR>&gt; counters represent fleets<BR>&gt; rather than squadrons. There must be enough fleets<BR>&gt; to make an interesting<BR>&gt; game. Otherwise you get a game of those old SPI<BR>&gt; creations like War in<BR>&gt; Europe, but translated into the Traveller universe.<BR>&gt; Lots of collectors<BR>&gt; probably have copies of War in Europe on their<BR>&gt; shelves, but I doubt that<BR>&gt; many ever played it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: Jeffrey Yin &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:58 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; You know. . . using 5FW as a template. . .<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:26 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Board games<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I think it would be really fun to battle out<BR>&gt; the Rebellion. It would<BR>&gt; be<BR>&gt; &gt; made<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;in multiple parts with add ons, like The Gamers<BR>&gt; line of civil war<BR>&gt; games.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;(Highly recommended.)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; ISTR there once being talk of doing this sort of<BR>&gt; thing as part of DGP's<BR>&gt; &gt; MegaTraveller Journal (called "Marc Miller's<BR>&gt; 'Battles of the Rebellion'"<BR>&gt; or<BR>&gt; &gt; some such).&nbsp; Of course it never came to be, and<BR>&gt; whether any development<BR>&gt; &gt; beyond simple brainstorming was ever actually done<BR>&gt; isn't something I could<BR>&gt; &gt; say.&nbsp; Anyhow, like you said, it's something I'd<BR>&gt; love to have seen.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Trent<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>"History is made at night."&nbsp; &nbsp; Dr Emilio Lizardo/Lord John Worfinhttp://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:35:42 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Jump Time<BR><BR>I know that this is heresy and I may well be persecuted for this, but here <BR>goes:<BR><BR>Why does each jump take one week? That seems _far_ too long for traveling a <BR>mere parsec (or less). So how about three days, or even the below system:<BR><BR>Time = 7*P/J<BR>where P is the number of parsecs traveled (round up) and J is the Jump <BR>Number used to get there.<BR><BR>Fuel Consumption = 0.1MJ<BR>where M is the ship's mass in displacement tons and J is the Jump Number <BR>used to get wherever it is the ship's going.<BR><BR>Also, Jump 6 is the maximum number.<BR><BR>So, under this system, a J-1 ship traveling would spend a number of weeks in <BR>jump equal to the distance traveled in parsecs, and a Jump 6 ship would <BR>spend one-sixth this time.<BR><BR>Here's a chart of times (in days, rounded up):<BR><BR>&nbsp; Pc<BR>Jn 1&nbsp; 2&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 4&nbsp; 5&nbsp; 6&nbsp; 7&nbsp; 8&nbsp; 9 10<BR>1&nbsp; 7 14 21 28 35 42 49 56 63 70<BR>2&nbsp; 4&nbsp; 7 11 14 18 21 25 28 32 35<BR>3&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 5&nbsp; 7 10 12 14 17 19 21 24<BR>4&nbsp; 2&nbsp; 4&nbsp; 6&nbsp; 7&nbsp; 9 11 13 14 16 18<BR>5&nbsp; 2&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 5&nbsp; 6&nbsp; 7&nbsp; 9 10 12 13 14<BR>6&nbsp; 2&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 4&nbsp; 5&nbsp; 6&nbsp; 7&nbsp; 9 10 11 12<BR><BR>Well, there you go. Enjoy!<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:37:41 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>Bernie McGeehan wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I dont have a lot of familiarity with the 5th Frontier<BR>&gt; War, but this has picqued my interest. How tough would<BR>&gt; it be to design/develop an online variant? I know next<BR>&gt; to nothing about programming, so I defer to wiser<BR>&gt; heads than mine. Could be a nice Winter Project for<BR>&gt; those of us in the Northern Hemisphere...<BR><BR>Using Aide de Camp 2, you make electronic copies of a game which you can<BR>e-mail back and forth, so it's sort of like an online version of a game.<BR>It's probably the best you can do with complex games like FFW which require<BR>a fair amount of thought, planning, or whatever. Making a ADC2 version of a<BR>game also requires no programming skills at all, since you are basically<BR>just creating pictures which represent the board and the counters. You can<BR>see examples of what my ADC2 versions of Traveller games look like at<BR>http://www.ksarul.com/traveller/adc2/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3167<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:43:03 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:42:12 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA62825;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:40:03 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:38:29 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA62480<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:38:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:38:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010162138.RAA62480@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3167<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3168<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Super Vocanos, Super Flows<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>RE: Starport Administration<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>re: Jump Time<BR>RE: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR>Re: Red October versus MHD<BR>RE: Emergency<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:49:05 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Super Vocanos, Super Flows<BR><BR>Per Encyclopedia Britannica:<BR><BR>"Some hot spots are associated with massive<BR>eruptions of lava and ash, primarily of basaltic<BR>composition, which cover vast areas as extensive<BR>as tens or hundreds of square kilometres. Such<BR>flood basalts, or traps, buried the Snake River<BR>Plain west of Yellowstone a few million years ago,<BR>the Columbia River Valley some 20,000,000 years<BR>ago, and central India (the Deccan traps)<BR>60,000,000 to 65,000,000 years ago. Flood basalts<BR>create a remarkably flat surface that is later<BR>dissected into a network of sharply incised valleys<BR>(see plateau)."<BR><BR>Note the date on the Deccan outflow.<BR><BR>There is some speculation that the huge outflow of CO2 and other gases<BR>from the Deccan outflow, and their consequent drastic impact on the<BR>climate, had as much or more to do with the Cretaceous global extinction<BR>event as the Chixulub impact...I saw a show on volcanos (with lots of<BR>cool new lava footage from Kiluea btw) just this weekend on the<BR>Discovery Channel.<BR><BR>Daniel Phelps wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Then of course there are the "super volcanoes" like the one under<BR>&gt; &gt;Yellowstone National Park.&nbsp; Goes off every few hundred thousand years, and<BR>&gt; &gt;lays waste to the continent.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Supposedly what happened a few 10s, or was it hundreds, of million years or<BR>&gt; so ago on the Decca Plateau if the paleoclimatologists are correct was even<BR>&gt; worse.&nbsp; It was a fissure flow of massive proportions.&nbsp; Postulated cause of<BR>&gt; one of the Earth's periodic mass extinctions, but not as well know as that<BR>&gt; little hit down Mexico way.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dan<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:54:58 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>Very neat. Aide de Camp 2 is an impressive program. If we can get someone<BR>very familiar with FFW, then we can use that system to start. Then we can<BR>build out the whole Imperium.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 2:37 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Bernie McGeehan wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I dont have a lot of familiarity with the 5th Frontier<BR>&gt; &gt; War, but this has picqued my interest. How tough would<BR>&gt; &gt; it be to design/develop an online variant? I know next<BR>&gt; &gt; to nothing about programming, so I defer to wiser<BR>&gt; &gt; heads than mine. Could be a nice Winter Project for<BR>&gt; &gt; those of us in the Northern Hemisphere...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Using Aide de Camp 2, you make electronic copies of a game which you can<BR>&gt; e-mail back and forth, so it's sort of like an online version of a game.<BR>&gt; It's probably the best you can do with complex games like FFW which<BR>require<BR>&gt; a fair amount of thought, planning, or whatever. Making a ADC2 version of<BR>a<BR>&gt; game also requires no programming skills at all, since you are basically<BR>&gt; just creating pictures which represent the board and the counters. You can<BR>&gt; see examples of what my ADC2 versions of Traveller games look like at<BR>&gt; http://www.ksarul.com/traveller/adc2/<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:55:41 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;You can see examples of what my ADC2 versions of Traveller games look like<BR>at<BR>&gt;http://www.ksarul.com/traveller/adc2/<BR><BR>You misspelled Nakege (you have Nakage).<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 14:56:18 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>Those are very good points. Squadron level would be too small, probably.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 1:50 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Concerning new Traveller boardgames, I have the following comments.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; First, when I started my project to make an electronic version of Fifth<BR>&gt; Frontier War, I tried demo copies of all of the software available to help<BR>&gt; you do this. My conclusion: Aide de Camp 2 is by far the best. It is<BR>&gt; extremely easy to use, makes great looking games and has lots of useful<BR>&gt; features. On the down side, however, it does cost $60. But it is well<BR>worth<BR>&gt; every cent of the price. I estimate that it took me about 60 hours of<BR>effort<BR>&gt; to create the ADC2 version of FFW. Mayday was my first attempt, and took<BR>&gt; next to no time, maybe four hours. If anyone has ADC2 and owns copies of<BR>&gt; Mayday or FFW (required due to copyrights), they can get electronic copies<BR>&gt; of these games from me.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Next, for the point of view of a FFW player, I think that a lower level of<BR>&gt; detail than you get in FFW would be better for a Rebellion game. If the<BR>&gt; playing area represents the entire Imperium, make counters represent<BR>fleets<BR>&gt; rather than squadrons. There must be enough fleets to make an interesting<BR>&gt; game. Otherwise you get a game of those old SPI creations like War in<BR>&gt; Europe, but translated into the Traveller universe. Lots of collectors<BR>&gt; probably have copies of War in Europe on their shelves, but I doubt that<BR>&gt; many ever played it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: Jeffrey Yin &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:58 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; You know. . . using 5FW as a template. . .<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:26 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Board games<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I think it would be really fun to battle out the Rebellion. It would<BR>&gt; be<BR>&gt; &gt; made<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;in multiple parts with add ons, like The Gamers line of civil war<BR>&gt; games.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;(Highly recommended.)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; ISTR there once being talk of doing this sort of thing as part of<BR>DGP's<BR>&gt; &gt; MegaTraveller Journal (called "Marc Miller's 'Battles of the Rebellion'"<BR>&gt; or<BR>&gt; &gt; some such).&nbsp; Of course it never came to be, and whether any development<BR>&gt; &gt; beyond simple brainstorming was ever actually done isn't something I<BR>could<BR>&gt; &gt; say.&nbsp; Anyhow, like you said, it's something I'd love to have seen.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Trent<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:57:46 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport Administration<BR><BR>David Summers writes:<BR>&gt;One related question that this brought up in my mind is the<BR>&gt;question of extradition.&nbsp; If you commit a crime on World A,<BR>&gt;and escape the star port or go off planet (or otherwise escape<BR>&gt;to Imperial jurisdiction) are you free and clear?<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;My take is that the Imperium maintains the right to send violators,<BR>&gt;or not, based on some criteria.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This makes sense, but it might also be a question of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; extradition treaties between worlds with no (direct)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Imperial involvement at all.&nbsp; How would that work with<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; respect to a prisoner's rights in transit between<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; worlds?<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:06:06 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>Well, there is a lot to be done besides programming in any case. Here are<BR>some of the most fundamental challenges, IMO<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 1. Choose a year. I am thinking 1117.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 2. Compile a map of the Imperium, and identify key systems (High Pops,<BR>Depots, etc.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 3. Research the factions (military forces, borders, etc.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 4. Begin the construction of the basic rules set, using FFW as a<BR>starting place.<BR><BR>Thoughts?<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Bernie McGeehan" &lt;einreb62@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 2:30 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I dont have a lot of familiarity with the 5th Frontier<BR>&gt; War, but this has picqued my interest. How tough would<BR>&gt; it be to design/develop an online variant? I know next<BR>&gt; to nothing about programming, so I defer to wiser<BR>&gt; heads than mine. Could be a nice Winter Project for<BR>&gt; those of us in the Northern Hemisphere...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --- Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Concerning new Traveller boardgames, I have the<BR>&gt; &gt; following comments.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; First, when I started my project to make an<BR>&gt; &gt; electronic version of Fifth<BR>&gt; &gt; Frontier War, I tried demo copies of all of the<BR>&gt; &gt; software available to help<BR>&gt; &gt; you do this. My conclusion: Aide de Camp 2 is by far<BR>&gt; &gt; the best. It is<BR>&gt; &gt; extremely easy to use, makes great looking games and<BR>&gt; &gt; has lots of useful<BR>&gt; &gt; features. On the down side, however, it does cost<BR>&gt; &gt; $60. But it is well worth<BR>&gt; &gt; every cent of the price. I estimate that it took me<BR>&gt; &gt; about 60 hours of effort<BR>&gt; &gt; to create the ADC2 version of FFW. Mayday was my<BR>&gt; &gt; first attempt, and took<BR>&gt; &gt; next to no time, maybe four hours. If anyone has<BR>&gt; &gt; ADC2 and owns copies of<BR>&gt; &gt; Mayday or FFW (required due to copyrights), they can<BR>&gt; &gt; get electronic copies<BR>&gt; &gt; of these games from me.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Next, for the point of view of a FFW player, I think<BR>&gt; &gt; that a lower level of<BR>&gt; &gt; detail than you get in FFW would be better for a<BR>&gt; &gt; Rebellion game. If the<BR>&gt; &gt; playing area represents the entire Imperium, make<BR>&gt; &gt; counters represent fleets<BR>&gt; &gt; rather than squadrons. There must be enough fleets<BR>&gt; &gt; to make an interesting<BR>&gt; &gt; game. Otherwise you get a game of those old SPI<BR>&gt; &gt; creations like War in<BR>&gt; &gt; Europe, but translated into the Traveller universe.<BR>&gt; &gt; Lots of collectors<BR>&gt; &gt; probably have copies of War in Europe on their<BR>&gt; &gt; shelves, but I doubt that<BR>&gt; &gt; many ever played it.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Jeffrey Yin &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:58 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; You know. . . using 5FW as a template. . .<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: &lt;trentfs@ix.netcom.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 12:26 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: Board games<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I think it would be really fun to battle out<BR>&gt; &gt; the Rebellion. It would<BR>&gt; &gt; be<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; made<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;in multiple parts with add ons, like The Gamers<BR>&gt; &gt; line of civil war<BR>&gt; &gt; games.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;(Highly recommended.)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; ISTR there once being talk of doing this sort of<BR>&gt; &gt; thing as part of DGP's<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; MegaTraveller Journal (called "Marc Miller's<BR>&gt; &gt; 'Battles of the Rebellion'"<BR>&gt; &gt; or<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; some such).&nbsp; Of course it never came to be, and<BR>&gt; &gt; whether any development<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; beyond simple brainstorming was ever actually done<BR>&gt; &gt; isn't something I could<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; say.&nbsp; Anyhow, like you said, it's something I'd<BR>&gt; &gt; love to have seen.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; Trent<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; =====<BR>&gt; "History is made at night." Dr Emilio Lizardo/Lord John<BR>Worfinhttp://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; __________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Do You Yahoo!?<BR>&gt; Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>&gt; http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:06:50 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR>Howdy!<BR><BR>David Smart inquired:<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson posted:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; MHD means, if I recall correctly, magnetohydrodynamic.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; What is that,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; exactly?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Basicly, it means you have a conductive fluid flowing thru a tube or<BR>&gt; &gt; nozzle, with a magnetic field at right angles to the flow, and are<BR>&gt; &gt; either drawing off an electrical current at right angles to *both* the<BR>&gt; &gt; flow and magnetic field, or are supplying a current at right angles to<BR>&gt; &gt; both. <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; If you are drawing off current, you are slowing down (or cooling off,<BR>&gt; &gt; or both) the flow to get the energy. <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; If you are feeding in a current, you are driving the flow. This is how<BR>&gt; &gt; the liquid sodium is "pumped" in sodium cooled nuclear reactors.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is this the science behind the so-called "caterpillar drive" in the movie <BR>&gt; "The Hunt For Red October"?<BR>&gt; <BR>Nope. That was simply a variation on a water jet, where the impellers<BR>are buried well in the middle of a long tube.<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:34:10 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;And, both the story and the film are titled "Nightflyers". Martin is a<BR>&gt; &gt;great source of Traveller inspiration, "The Stone City" is a classic,<BR>&gt; &gt;as is _After the Festival_.&nbsp; OTOH, most of his work is pretty damn<BR>&gt; &gt;bleak.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Yes...good author.&nbsp; Try reading "Sandkings" for several interesting<BR>&gt; NPCs and critters.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hint:&nbsp; Don't buy pets from 'Wu and Shade', just like no sane sophont<BR>&gt; would buy a cigarette lighter from Ditzie<BR><BR>And don't let Imperial security agencies find out if you obtain a cat<BR>from Haviland Tuf....<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 15:49:08 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin wrote;<BR><BR>&gt; Well, there is a lot to be done besides programming in any case. Here are<BR>&gt; some of the most fundamental challenges, IMO<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Choose a year. I am thinking 1117.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2. Compile a map of the Imperium, and identify key systems (High Pops,<BR>&gt; Depots, etc.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3. Research the factions (military forces, borders, etc.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4. Begin the construction of the basic rules set, using FFW as a<BR>&gt; starting place.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Thoughts?<BR><BR>I see a bigger challenge as getting people interested in actually _playing_<BR>the game, particularly if it uses a product like ADC2 which costs money. The<BR>universe of Traveller fans is fairly large, but wargaming only appeals to<BR>some fraction of the total. Then you have many of the wargaming fans<BR>unwilling to blow $60 on a piece of software, etc. Although this project<BR>sounds extremely interesting to me, I'm not sure you could actually get<BR>anyone to play the completed game.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:50:02 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Jump Time<BR><BR>At 17:38 -0400 16/10/00,&nbsp; "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Why does each jump take one week? That seems _far_ too long for traveling a<BR>&gt;mere parsec (or less). So how about three days, or even the below system:<BR><BR>!!!!!<BR><BR>In real world terms it takes 3.27 *years* for light to cross a <BR>parsec. Traveller FTL is quite fast (J1 is effectively ~155 light <BR>years / year (in practicality half that speed because of refueling) <BR>and J6 is 6 times that).<BR><BR>Why does it seem too long to you?<BR><BR>Fundamentally, it just *is* that speed because the game designers <BR>chose it to be so. If you want a faster FTL drive then fine, but you <BR>are changing one of the precepts that the game universe is built on.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:42:08 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>At 17:38 -0400 16/10/00,&nbsp; "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;2) The speed at which the 3I fragmented has often been&nbsp; cited&nbsp; as<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; evidence that the 3I was exceedingly vulnerable at the time of<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; the assassination.&nbsp; This being so, unless Varin turned out&nbsp; to<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; be a highly charismatic&nbsp; and&nbsp; wise&nbsp; leader&nbsp; the&nbsp; fragmentation<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; would have occured anyway ... maybe slower, maybe not.<BR><BR><BR>I disagree to some extent here: part of the reason that the <BR>fragmentaion of the Third Imperium occured was the fact that there <BR>was a question as to the legitimacy of Lucan's rule; namely, the <BR>claim that he murdered his brother for the throne made by Windhook.<BR><BR>"In the days immediately following the assassination, the Emperor's <BR>nephew Lucan took power, declared a state of emergency, *and crowned <BR>himself Emperor. When the Moot opposed such swift action, he <BR>dissolved the assembly and took steps against those nobles who were <BR>outspoken in opposition to him."<BR><BR>p10, MT Rebellion Sourcebook, 1116 entry.<BR><BR>Arguably the Moot only has the power to dissolve the Imperium, but <BR>with this power they do have effective confirmation of the heir. <BR>There were legitimate queries as to Lucan's actions, and he <BR>precipitately used force to push them through, abandoning tradition <BR>and due process.<BR><BR>This leads directly to members of the Moot proposing Margaret as an <BR>untainted heir. By 1117 the Imperium has now shattered into a third <BR>faction as Margaret's forces pull out from Lucan's fleet.<BR><BR>Lucan panics and withdraws fleets from the borders, causing the loss <BR>of Lishun, Corridor and the Old Expanses. The Old Expanses join the <BR>Confederation to retain stability. Lishun and Corridor are Vargr <BR>dominated and raids begin to spread from them. Deneb is cut off <BR>(effectively formation of faction No 4). Antares is ordered to <BR>transfer half its fleets, but Brzk refuses and takes his Domain to <BR>form the League of Antares (end 1117) and joins the Julian <BR>Protectorate (1118) [Faction 5]. Stephon's survival is announced <BR>[Faction 6].<BR><BR>1118: Vland Sector, threatened by Vargr raiders refuses to supply <BR>Lucan with more fleets, and declares&nbsp; the Ziru Sirkaa [Faction 7]. <BR>Daibei is ordered to hand over 12 of its fleets to serve against <BR>Dulinor. It is currently engaged with the Solomani, and when Duke <BR>Craig's appeal against the transfer is rejected by Lucan the sector <BR>declares independence in late 1118 [Faction 8].<BR><BR>By 1118 Lucan's own actions and response had precipitated the <BR>formation of a further 5 factions.<BR><BR>Varian's survival would have left a clear line of descent without the <BR>questions of Lucan's actions.<BR><BR>With the Moot onside, Margaret's faction is no longer necessary. <BR>Dulinor is plainly the rebel. Without the loss of Margaret's forces <BR>from the core Imperial forces, the need to strip the borders so badly <BR>is removed. With this, the formation of the other factions is avoided.<BR><BR>Admittedly, it is possible that had Varian been like Lucan in action <BR>that some of the borders would have split. However, it is harder to <BR>split from a legitimate authority rather than a questionable one.<BR><BR>&gt;A further observation (IIRC 'cos I don't have my books with&nbsp; me):<BR>&gt;Lucan&nbsp; killed&nbsp; Varin&nbsp; before&nbsp; he&nbsp; should&nbsp; have&nbsp; known&nbsp; about&nbsp; the<BR>&gt;assassination.&nbsp; I wonder if Dulinor&nbsp; set&nbsp; him&nbsp; up&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; further<BR>&gt;distraction during the getaway.&nbsp; If *that* were so&nbsp; then&nbsp; Dulinor<BR>&gt;would be directly responsible&nbsp; for&nbsp; putting&nbsp; Lucan&nbsp; (a&nbsp; murderous<BR>&gt;psychopath) on the throne.<BR><BR>Lucan only killed Varian (not Varin) before the announcement of <BR>Stephon's death if you believe Lucan's story (or rather, Imprey and <BR>Windhook killed Varian, Elia and their guard while Lucan heroically <BR>killed Imprey). If you believe Windhook's story, the guard shot <BR>Imprey, then as news of the assassination came onto the video screens <BR>Lucan shot the guard, Varian and then Elia. Personally, I feel the <BR>latter case is more likely.<BR><BR>&gt;To&nbsp; summarise:&nbsp; Dulinor&nbsp; was&nbsp; either&nbsp;&nbsp; directly&nbsp;&nbsp; or&nbsp;&nbsp; indirectly<BR>&gt;responsible for Lucan ascending the throne.&nbsp; And&nbsp; even&nbsp; if&nbsp; Lucan<BR>&gt;hadn't ascended the throne the 3I would still have&nbsp; fallen&nbsp; as&nbsp; a<BR>&gt;result of Dulinor's actions.&nbsp; Therefore Dulinor is guilty.<BR><BR>Dulinor is responsible for the apparent murder of the Emperor, his <BR>wife, and his only direct heir. At this point, the legitimate <BR>heir/Emperor is Varian.<BR><BR>Alternative 1: Lucan's tale is true. Varian is already dead as <BR>Dulinor's assassinates Strephon, so Dulinor is responsible for Lucan <BR>taking the throne.<BR><BR>Alternative 2: Lucan murders his brother and the rest in the room <BR>when he realises the opportunity that Dulinor's assassination of <BR>Strephon gave him. Dulinor's direct attempt on his life has failed, <BR>and Lucan kills the legitimate heir leaving a psychopath as the heir <BR>apparent.<BR><BR>Dulinor is guilty of creating the situation.<BR><BR>Lucan (IMO) is either guilty of murdering his brother and taking the <BR>throne, or he bypasses procedures in such a way to bring question to <BR>his legitimacy.<BR><BR>If Varian had taken the throne without the same question mark that <BR>Lucan had the Moot would have backed the new Emperor (no reason not <BR>to) and Dulinor's rebellion would be doomed.<BR><BR>One way or another Dulinor and Lucan are guilty. In my opinion, Lucan <BR>more so. Lucan is directly responsible for the creation of a further <BR>5 factions and the collapse of the Imperium.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 17:51:40 -0500<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR>In the book, The Hunt for Red October, Tom Clancy described a water jet<BR>propulsion system. (He also -erroneously - went into excruciating detail<BR>into the Soviet Alfa's high pressure water reactor, when in fact the Alfa<BR>uses&nbsp; a&nbsp; liquid metal cooled reactor.)<BR><BR>However, in the cinematic version, the movie referenced a MHD drive for the<BR>Red October. AFAIK, the MHD drives currently being tested in the U.S. and<BR>Japan provide only enough thrust for about 3 or 4 knots. A far cry from the<BR>13 knots in the book, and 22 in the movie!<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Michael Houghton" &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 5:06 PM<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Howdy!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; David Smart inquired:<BR>&gt; &gt; Leonard Erickson posted:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; MHD means, if I recall correctly, magnetohydrodynamic.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; What is that,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; exactly?<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Basicly, it means you have a conductive fluid flowing thru a tube or<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; nozzle, with a magnetic field at right angles to the flow, and are<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; either drawing off an electrical current at right angles to *both* the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; flow and magnetic field, or are supplying a current at right angles to<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; both.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; If you are drawing off current, you are slowing down (or cooling off,<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; or both) the flow to get the energy.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; If you are feeding in a current, you are driving the flow. This is how<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; the liquid sodium is "pumped" in sodium cooled nuclear reactors.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Is this the science behind the so-called "caterpillar drive" in the<BR>movie<BR>&gt; &gt; "The Hunt For Red October"?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; Nope. That was simply a variation on a water jet, where the impellers<BR>&gt; are buried well in the middle of a long tube.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; yours,<BR>&gt; Michael<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>&gt; herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>&gt; Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:03:24 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Red October versus MHD<BR><BR>David Smart:<BR>&gt; &gt; Basicly, it means you have a conductive fluid flowing thru a tube or<BR>&gt; &gt; nozzle, with a magnetic field at right angles to the flow, and are<BR>&gt; &gt; either drawing off an electrical current at right angles to *both* the<BR>&gt; &gt; flow and magnetic field, or are supplying a current at right angles to<BR>&gt; &gt; both.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If you are drawing off current, you are slowing down (or cooling off,<BR>&gt; &gt; or both) the flow to get the energy.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If you are feeding in a current, you are driving the flow. This is how<BR>&gt; &gt; the liquid sodium is "pumped" in sodium cooled nuclear reactors.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is this the science behind the so-called "caterpillar drive" in the movie<BR>&gt; "The Hunt For Red October"?<BR><BR>I had the impression that there were relatively conventional bladed <BR>propellors (or impellers) in the caterpillar/tunnel drive in Red October<BR>(at least I got that from four readings of the book; I don't remember the<BR>movie much).<BR><BR>I'm 90% certain there was no mention of the MHD effect in the book.<BR><BR>Leonard, does the fluid have to be conductING or just conductIVE for the<BR>effect to work? Would seawater qualify?<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:09:56<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Emergency<BR><BR>At 04:00 PM 10/16/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; I think he was just doing research for the GF cover (that <BR>&gt;&gt; thing is *awesome*)<BR><BR>&gt;Just kidding.&nbsp; So when is GF expected out?<BR><BR>This month.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:29:34 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>Karen and Michael Hughes wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some others<BR>&gt; out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into their<BR>&gt; games?<BR><BR>Well, Emperor Strephon seems to have enjoyed _The Princess Bride_ enough<BR>to have quoted it in his journals....<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:32:25 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>To tell the truth, I am actually far more interested in simply seeing if it<BR>can be done. The viability of game play can be better achieved by<BR>sacraficing features with a more primitive medium.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 3:49 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Jeffrey Yin wrote;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Well, there is a lot to be done besides programming in any case. Here<BR>are<BR>&gt; &gt; some of the most fundamental challenges, IMO<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1. Choose a year. I am thinking 1117.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2. Compile a map of the Imperium, and identify key systems (High<BR>Pops,<BR>&gt; &gt; Depots, etc.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3. Research the factions (military forces, borders, etc.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4. Begin the construction of the basic rules set, using FFW as a<BR>&gt; &gt; starting place.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Thoughts?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I see a bigger challenge as getting people interested in actually<BR>_playing_<BR>&gt; the game, particularly if it uses a product like ADC2 which costs money.<BR>The<BR>&gt; universe of Traveller fans is fairly large, but wargaming only appeals to<BR>&gt; some fraction of the total. Then you have many of the wargaming fans<BR>&gt; unwilling to blow $60 on a piece of software, etc. Although this project<BR>&gt; sounds extremely interesting to me, I'm not sure you could actually get<BR>&gt; anyone to play the completed game.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.35]) by air-yc04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:39:59 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:34:39 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA70794;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:33:53 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:32:29 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA70738<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:32:28 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:32:28 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010162332.TAA70738@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 16 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3169<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR>Gearheading delight<BR>re: Jump Time<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Civilian vs Military with ref to ST<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!&nbsp; etc<BR>Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR>Re: On-Topic: Sisters of Mercy<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>RE: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Group Administrator?<BR>Re: Emergency<BR>Re: Gearheading delight<BR>Re: Board games<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Red October versus MHD<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 16:39:39 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Karen and Michael Hughes wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some others<BR>&gt; &gt; out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into their<BR>&gt; &gt; games?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, Emperor Strephon seems to have enjoyed _The Princess Bride_ enough<BR>&gt; to have quoted it in his journals....<BR><BR>It's growing on me evey time I watch it.<BR><BR>"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it<BR>means..."<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:06:48 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Insane project? (Was Board Game)<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Luther Martin" <BR>&gt; Using Aide de Camp 2, you make electronic copies of a game which you can<BR>&gt; e-mail back and forth, so it's sort of like an online version of a game.<BR>&gt; It's probably the best you can do with complex games like FFW which<BR>&gt; require a fair amount of thought, planning, or whatever. Making a ADC2<BR>&gt; version of a game also requires no programming skills at all, since you<BR>&gt; are basically just creating pictures which represent the board and the<BR>&gt; counters. You can see examples of what my ADC2 versions of Traveller<BR>&gt; games look like at http://www.ksarul.com/traveller/adc2/<BR><BR>The bummer is that ADC2, like most of the other such game utilities, is<BR>hex/grid/area oriented.&nbsp; It means that doing Striker with it would be kind<BR>of awkward.&nbsp; <BR><BR>(The main problem seems to be indirect fire - the MT mass combat system,<BR>which is fairly close to a grid/hex-based version of Striker, wimps out on<BR>this.)<BR><BR>Still, at least we could do starship combat without too much drama:&nbsp; I<BR>wonder if we could organise some kind of league, in which we all compete to<BR>blow up AuricTech's lawyers! :)&nbsp; <BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:57:30 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Gearheading delight<BR><BR>...or did Ken Hite start writing for Popular Mechanics...<BR><BR>I had to buy the current issue of Popular Mechanics.&nbsp; It had a US Flying <BR>Saucer launching missiles Earthward.<BR><BR>PopMechanics claims that through the FoA, they obtained documents on an Air <BR>Force project to build a<BR>Lenticular Reentry Vehicle (LRV) that was designed to fly at a height of <BR>300 miles for up to six weeks, supporting a crew of 4 and four nuclear <BR>missles (which according to the article fit the description of MIRVs <BR>without the documents calling them MIRVs).<BR><BR>Here are the specs:<BR><BR>Diameter 40 ft&nbsp; (12.2 meters)<BR>Center height 90 inches (2.3 meters)<BR>Edge&nbsp; thickness 6 inches (15 cm)<BR>Wings 1548 square feet&nbsp; (471 sq meters)<BR><BR>Launch Weight: 45,000 lb (20411 Kg)<BR>Landing Weight: 33,395 lb (15147 Kg)<BR>Empty Weight: 17,042 lb (7730 Kg)<BR><BR>Booster Engine: chemical/nuclear<BR>Main Engine: Hypergoli/Nuclear<BR>Escape Capsule: solid fuel<BR><BR>Electric Power: 7 KW (thermal Nuclear)<BR><BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 18:58:09 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Jump Time<BR><BR>That may be so, but how many shows/novels/movies incorporate an FTL drive <BR>that takes a week per jump/skip/transit/etc? Just because no FTL radio _is_ <BR>a good idea (makes things more exciting), why should it take a _week_ to go <BR>someplace?<BR><BR>Most jump drives in sci-fi are _instantaneous_. Why should Traveller's take <BR>so long? Three days, maybe five, seems just fine to me!<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: re: Jump Time<BR>&gt;Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:50:02 +0100<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;At 17:38 -0400 16/10/00,&nbsp; "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;Why does each jump take one week? That seems _far_ too long for traveling <BR>&gt;&gt;a<BR>&gt;&gt;mere parsec (or less). So how about three days, or even the below system:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;!!!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In real world terms it takes 3.27 *years* for light to cross a<BR>&gt;parsec. Traveller FTL is quite fast (J1 is effectively ~155 light<BR>&gt;years / year (in practicality half that speed because of refueling)<BR>&gt;and J6 is 6 times that).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Why does it seem too long to you?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Fundamentally, it just *is* that speed because the game designers<BR>&gt;chose it to be so. If you want a faster FTL drive then fine, but you<BR>&gt;are changing one of the precepts that the game universe is built on.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dom<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&gt;"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>&gt;can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>&gt;http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 00:52:42 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Rodney Basler" &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 6:27 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; At 08:38 AM 10/15/2000 +1000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some<BR>&gt; others<BR>&gt; &gt;out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes<BR>into<BR>&gt; their<BR>&gt; &gt;games?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Man Who Would Be King<BR><BR>Remade in the RC as 'The Man Who Would Be TED'<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:19:03 +1000<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Civilian vs Military with ref to ST<BR><BR>SD Mooney wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Just a thought triggered by the biannual ST flame war - What if the<BR>&gt; role and scope adopted by the military was larger than that in<BR>&gt; present society? We are all assuming that the society that the book<BR>&gt; advocates follows a 20th century model. What if certain parts of<BR>&gt; industry fell within a military remit? This could be indirectly<BR>&gt; (nationalised industry, even that which is part public owned) based,<BR>&gt; or directly (the companies are operative arms of the military which<BR>&gt; runs its own supply chain).<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Isn't (Mainland)China a lot like this? Some (a lot?) of industries are<BR>owned by the Army...<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:26:30 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Hi Michael! Try renting "Nightriders" sometime. And no, it _doesnt_<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;George R. R. Martin is the author's name.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And, both the story and the film are titled "Nightflyers".<BR><BR>Thanks Paul &amp; John, for the correct author and title. ("Hey, that'll make a<BR>great story. Just needs different words, different characters, different<BR>background - great story!!!" ;-)<BR><BR>I'll just go home now and pick up my brain.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:47:47 +1000<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cost-effective air/rafts was: Re: WARNING!!! NOT OT!!!&nbsp; etc<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; From: John Groth<BR>&gt; &gt; 1.&nbsp; Our suits [1] are unhappy with your failure to note AuricTech<BR>&gt; &gt; Shipyards' trademark rights to the term "Gold-Plated [tm]" in your<BR>&gt; &gt; post.&nbsp; When our suits get unhappy, they get concerned.&nbsp; And when they<BR>&gt; &gt; get concerned, people get sued.&nbsp; Now, I ain't sayin' it's gonna be you,<BR>&gt; &gt; but I also ain't sayin' it ain't.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ha!&nbsp; AuricTech think they're tough guys cause they've got lawyers!&nbsp; Hawkins<BR>&gt; &amp; Ouzogh have *accountants*!&nbsp; Trained by the Interstellar Revenue Service!<BR>&gt; Yes - we have Tax Marines...<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Sorta like the Russian Tax Police? There was a news article about htis<BR>recently...big feature was 15-16 year olds (i think) getting SWAT<BR>training...doing live fire SWAT training at 16-17...some sort of<BR>orphanage/school...<BR><BR>ObTrav...something about a semi-totalatarian world and and author named Hein...<BR><BR>#%@^#*#^.....&lt;no carrier&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:47:57 +1000<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR>"Matthew W. Helton" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; In the book, The Hunt for Red October, Tom Clancy described a water jet<BR>&gt; propulsion system. (He also -erroneously - went into excruciating detail<BR>&gt; into the Soviet Alfa's high pressure water reactor, when in fact the Alfa<BR>&gt; uses&nbsp; a&nbsp; liquid metal cooled reactor.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; However, in the cinematic version, the movie referenced a MHD drive for the<BR>&gt; Red October. AFAIK, the MHD drives currently being tested in the U.S. and<BR>&gt; Japan provide only enough thrust for about 3 or 4 knots. A far cry from the<BR>&gt; 13 knots in the book, and 22 in the movie!<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>OTOH...AFAIK the only test bed for MHD water propulsion is owned/operated by a<BR>Japanese company or university...it can do 6 or 7 knots...but it doesn't have a<BR>whacking great nuke power plant like a Typhoon....<BR><BR>...and yes the working fluid has to be conductive...sea water works but fresh<BR>water doesnae have enough dissolved salts and minerals...<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:32:59 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: On-Topic: Sisters of Mercy<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Rob wrote:<BR>&gt;One of the stories on the Sisters' site is about finding sequencers that could<BR>survive &gt;touring and live shows. They rang up a military computer manufacturer<BR>in the UIK, and &gt;after convincing the guy on the phone that they weren't<BR>terrorists, they ordered two &gt;rack-mounting indestructable military-grade PCs.<BR>They still use them.<BR><BR>Chalk up a keyboard-kill! I had to explain this one to a work colleague (don't<BR>worry, this is after he showed me a few pics of the "Magic Roundabout" in the UK<BR>- - imagine a roundabout with 5 small roundabouts placed around the outside, and a<BR>central roundabout that runs in reverse! Not something you want to encounter in<BR>the dead of night!).<BR><BR>&gt;This would make a good Traveller cargo or encounter. "Imperial Military grade<BR>computers?", &gt;"They're for a music group, officer", "Why do they have targeting<BR>- - 2 on them, then?", "I &gt;don't know, officer, but the band will be here soon,<BR>I'm sure there's a perfectly innocent &gt;explanation".<BR><BR>Ok, this has to be adopted by all those JTAS fans who use the Veedback<BR>scenario!! (one of the best ever Amber Zones, BTW!)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:00:09 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Megan Robertson &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Cc: &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 6:02:pm<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;005f01c03734$efa6ffa0$b809fad1@legate&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Legate wrote: "Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a<BR>&gt; couple of landing pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp;<BR>&gt; rehauling bays, &amp; a couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating<BR>&gt; a Class C Starport so he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a<BR>&gt; Starport?&nbsp; And, if so, if Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out<BR>&gt; on his estate &amp; be protected by Imperial Marines?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I would have thought not: it's just a private facility. His movements in<BR>&gt; and out will be subject to local planetary and Imperial law concerning the<BR>&gt; operation of space vehicles, though...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This Imanoble guy will have to hire his own security goons, who may or may<BR>&gt; not protect him to the uttermost when the chips are down. And who, if<BR>&gt; sufficiently bribed, might let local villains hide out there... hmmm...<BR>&gt; characters hired as said security goons when down on their luck, and a<BR>&gt; whole saga of events ensue.....<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>I have to agree with this.&nbsp; I do understand that some worlds have<BR>private/corporate starports (Ling, et al.?) and they, to me, are a judgement<BR>call on what the GM requires.&nbsp; If the GM needs this Corp-owned world's<BR>starport to private (Wasn't that the case in one of the Traveller computer<BR>games?&nbsp; One SP was owned by a company as they owned the entire planet and<BR>certain laws didn't apply there?) with their own rules, I think that works<BR>fine.&nbsp; But on a errrr... "typical"(?) world, there should be one or more<BR>SP's that are "Imperial Property" and possibly a handful (depending upon the<BR>world's Pop or industrial base?) of "local government owned and operated"<BR>Space Ports - not necessarily Star Ports.&nbsp; Perhaps, Lord Imanoble has what<BR>is classed as a Space Port if there is already an Imperial-sponsored Star<BR>Port Present?<BR><BR>Just throwing in a couple of cents of my ideas... Now, lets see... with the<BR>current exchange rate, I'm going to have to dib in at least 4c to make that<BR>US2c worth...<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:54:25 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Cost-effective air/rafts<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Antony wrote:<BR>&gt;We guarantee that out TL9 Air/rafts come completely equipped with artificial<BR>&gt;gold paint. We go the extra kilometer for only Cr108,629 or for the TL11<BR>&gt;patron Cr87,540 buys you a state of the art craft.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Find them through Vehicles &amp; Equipment from www.users.bigpond.com/Skaran<BR><BR>For an MT version, see Tavonni Specialities ==&gt; trendi ==&gt; Vehicles ==&gt; trendi<BR>AirCar.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:36:30 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: James Jensen &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 9:58:am<BR>Subject: re: Jump Time<BR><BR><BR>&gt; That may be so, but how many shows/novels/movies incorporate an FTL drive<BR>&gt; that takes a week per jump/skip/transit/etc? Just because no FTL radio<BR>_is_<BR>&gt; a good idea (makes things more exciting), why should it take a _week_ to<BR>go<BR>&gt; someplace?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Most jump drives in sci-fi are _instantaneous_. Why should Traveller's<BR>take<BR>&gt; so long?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Originality?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:33:48 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>I recently read an intersting article in CHALLENGE #43:<BR><BR>"Leyna Tirenthe"<BR><BR>According to the article, Leyna she "has been, since the tender age of 14<BR>standard, one of the brightest stars of stage and screen in the Imperium."<BR><BR>Aside from being very interesting in general terms, the last paragraph of<BR>the article says the follwoing:<BR><BR>"An inspection of Leyna's belongings will uncover an audio disk.&nbsp; On it is a<BR>conversation between Lucan and Leyna in which he exposes his prior knowledge<BR>of Dulinor's plot against Strephon."<BR><BR>The article takes place 242-1116, 1110 days after Strephon was assassinated.<BR><BR>Has this been discussed on the list?&nbsp; If so, does it hold canonical status<BR>because it appeared in CHALLENGE?<BR><BR>The article was written by Christopher S. Willoughby and is an excellent<BR>work.&nbsp; It also discloses the name of one of Norris' "istant relatives -Lady<BR>Elenais" whom Leyna Tirenthe is masquerading as.<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:34:54 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>"Legate Legion" posed:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of landing<BR>&gt;pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp; a<BR>&gt;couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport so<BR>&gt;he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so, if<BR>&gt;Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be protected<BR>&gt;by Imperial Marines?<BR><BR>You mean like Tavonni? No, the Count uses his Household Troops.&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>Ahem. It's a spaceport unless he negotiates with the Imperium (and the planet -<BR>unless he owns, it of course!) to make the 'port extraterritorial.<BR><BR>And unless it's extraterritorial, the Marines don't want to know.<BR><BR>And probably not even then, if it's just a TPLCP<BR>(tin-pot-little-colonial-planet).<BR><BR>At Tavonni (we're into IMTU territory, here), the Count built a class-C starport<BR>which was temporarily made extraterritorial until the "real" class-B port of<BR>Beowulf Down was completed. At this time, the extrality zone shifted to the new<BR>'port, and the old one was re-designated as a spaceport (class-H, I think).<BR><BR>BTW, if anyone is worried by supposed canonical rules here, you can relax! Even<BR>GT:Starports says that the guidelines it espouses are just general rules, and<BR>there are many 'ports out there that are different. Just look at the relaxed use<BR>of "rules" when building Mertactor's 'port - they're more like "rules of thumb".<BR>Within a few basic parameters, you can make your 'ports do anything - and<BR>_should_, in order to prevent the players yawning, "A starport? So what? Seen<BR>one, you've seen them all."<BR><BR>As for extradition, the following appears to be canonical:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - if you are on a world and commit an act that is both a local and Imperial<BR>crime (such as murder), the Imperium will co-operate to track, capture and send<BR>you back to that world for the crime to be heard locally;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - if you are in Imperial space (including within a starport) and commit an<BR>Imperial crime, the Imperium will track and capture you using all methods they<BR>can, in order to try you. They will liaise with local and call on subsector<BR>police forces, involve the MoJ (for high justice crimes), and even employ bounty<BR>hunters to get you. This tends to be "A Bad Thing"(tm);<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - if you are on a world and commit an act that is only recognised as a<BR>local crime, you are free once you get to the starport. However, the world can<BR>send bounty hunters after you. The Imperium will not interfere with a bounty<BR>hunter returning a lawfully-captured prisoner - but they won't help the hunter,<BR>either, and will make sure the hunter really captured the target lawfully.<BR><BR>For references, try looking at the list at the end of my Police chargen (in the<BR>Repair Bays).<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:55:44 EDT<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>Chris Thrash (quoting Leonard) says:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;There could be all sorts of stuff tucked away in the starport that<BR>&gt;&gt;isn't "advertised", but that you can use freely *if* you know about it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Every airbase, army airfield, or civilian airport I've ever stopped at has<BR>&gt;a room, usually located near the base operations desk but sometimes in the<BR>&gt;fixed base operator's office, that has several junk food and soda machines,<BR>&gt;a coffee pot, and a couch. You might not understand why the couch is<BR>&gt;important until you've been weathered in there for a couple of days, living<BR>&gt;out of the machines. (Most pilots I know carry a roll of quarters for just<BR>&gt;such occasions.) A well-appointed example will have a shower stall and<BR>&gt;changing space in the nearest latrine. One of the things I really enjoy<BR>&gt;about cross-country flying is the sense that aviation people are pretty<BR>&gt;much the same everywhere, and look out for each other this way: I see the<BR>&gt;junk food room, and know I'm not totally on my own. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;While starships won't be subject to the same limitations, I imagine that<BR>&gt;there will be similar universals in starports throughout human-frequented<BR>&gt;space.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Limitations? Nah, you've just defined the difference between Class D and E <BR>starports in terms that make sense during play...<BR><BR>"So," says the visiting Survey Scout to the guy gassing up his Sulie at <BR>Podunk Downport. "You got a coffee machine around here?"<BR>"Nope. Gotta bring my coffee in with me ever' morning."<BR>The scout pulls his SurveyNote+ (TM) and enters "'E'-class port at 312-29N."<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 22:22:15 -0400<BR>From: "Daniel Phelps" &lt;phelpsd@gate.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>Everyone is citing some very good movies but I really like "Tremors".&nbsp; Just<BR>the first movie not the second.&nbsp; What can I say I like the occasional one<BR>off bug hunt adventure and the critters are cool.&nbsp; They are just the thing.<BR>I picture a wilderness prospecting ticket on a fringe world where the PCs<BR>are the grunts intended to fetch and carry and stop hungry local fauna.<BR>Have the air raft totaled along with the commo by a gonzo NPC in the first<BR>attack and give the PCs relatively low tech civilian type weapons.<BR>Nothing to powerful, stuff intended to stop medium sized predators and small<BR>game; shotguns, an ACR with a dozen RAM grenade signal flares, and pistols<BR>and rifles of various calibers.&nbsp;&nbsp; Let them try to get to the "rocks" and<BR>hold out until help comes looking because they missed a couple of commo<BR>checks.<BR><BR>As a side note I ran the CT bug hunt adventure, Horde?, on a new group once<BR>years back and it was a blast.&nbsp; They had a happy fun ball and were hired by<BR>a corporation that had bought the years production from a lowish tech ag<BR>world full of share croppers.&nbsp; The corporate suits thought that the farmers<BR>were trying to stiff them and sent the PCs in to put the fear into the sod<BR>busters.&nbsp;&nbsp; I will never forget the look on one player's face when, after he<BR>realized that the bugs were big, bad and very real, he checked on the<BR>"insecticide"&nbsp; the Corporate suits had sent with them.&nbsp; &nbsp; I described to him<BR>a large old fashion hand pumped can of "flit" and said that they had several<BR>cases of them.<BR><BR>They couldn't use the fire power of the ship to any advantage because the<BR>Corporate Rep kept complaining that they would destroy the crops.&nbsp; They had<BR>to root the bugs out.&nbsp; I still remember one scene where the PCs are in this<BR>house and the critters are in the basement.&nbsp; I tell them the bugs are coming<BR>up the stairs.&nbsp; One of the players says "well they can only come up the<BR>stairs one at a time."&nbsp;&nbsp; I say yes and another player who has not been<BR>paying enough attention says why.&nbsp; I say, "well they look like spiders and<BR>are about the size of that coffee table only a bit bigger."&nbsp; &nbsp; The player<BR>freaks, it seems she had arachnophobia.<BR><BR>Dan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 19:19:56 -0700<BR>From: Thomas Lawnsby &lt;tsculler@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Group Administrator?<BR><BR>Is there a group administrator/moderator for this newsgroup?<BR>I need to unsubscribe but my email requests are not going through.<BR>Thanks, Tom.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:54:31 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Emergency<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 04:00 PM 10/16/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; I think he was just doing research for the GF cover (that<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; thing is *awesome*)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Just kidding.&nbsp; So when is GF expected out?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This month.<BR><BR>Ah, cool! I need to put @$22 aside now so I can get it ;)<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:57:27 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gearheading delight<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; ...or did Ken Hite start writing for Popular Mechanics...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I had to buy the current issue of Popular Mechanics.&nbsp; It had a US Flying<BR>&gt; Saucer launching missiles Earthward.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; PopMechanics claims that through the FoA, they obtained documents on an Air<BR>&gt; Force project to build a<BR>&gt; Lenticular Reentry Vehicle (LRV) that was designed to fly at a height of<BR>&gt; 300 miles for up to six weeks, supporting a crew of 4 and four nuclear<BR>&gt; missles (which according to the article fit the description of MIRVs<BR>&gt; without the documents calling them MIRVs).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Here are the specs:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Diameter 40 ft&nbsp; (12.2 meters)<BR>&gt; Center height 90 inches (2.3 meters)<BR>&gt; Edge&nbsp; thickness 6 inches (15 cm)<BR>&gt; Wings 1548 square feet&nbsp; (471 sq meters)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Launch Weight: 45,000 lb (20411 Kg)<BR>&gt; Landing Weight: 33,395 lb (15147 Kg)<BR>&gt; Empty Weight: 17,042 lb (7730 Kg)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Booster Engine: chemical/nuclear<BR>&gt; Main Engine: Hypergoli/Nuclear<BR>&gt; Escape Capsule: solid fuel<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Electric Power: 7 KW (thermal Nuclear)<BR><BR>You forgot the best part -- a color cut-away drawing!<BR><BR>I mentioned this on some other lists (especially Dark Conspiracy), but no one<BR>seemed very impressed ...<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:32:25 EDT<BR>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Board games<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/13/2000 12:55:48 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Will Far Future ever reprint 5FW or Invasion Earth? <BR><BR><BR>Yes. As FFE 005. Includes images of the components, plus the texts.<BR><BR>Marc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 20:31:04 -0700<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>"Dune" - good imperial background<BR>"Pitch Black" - classic "Marooned/Marooned Alone" type scenario with<BR>aliens that bite.<BR>"Dark Star" - just a classic<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:33:25 -0400<BR>From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)<BR>Subject: Re: Red October versus MHD<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Is this the science behind the so-called "caterpillar drive" in the movie<BR>&gt;&gt; "The Hunt For Red October"?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I had the impression that there were relatively conventional bladed <BR>&gt;propellors (or impellers) in the caterpillar/tunnel drive in Red October<BR>&gt;(at least I got that from four readings of the book; I don't remember the<BR>&gt;movie much).<BR><BR>More or less.&nbsp; The "caterpiller drive" in the BOOK is as you describe it.<BR>Needless to say, Hollywood decided to turn it into MHD for the movie.<BR><BR>&gt;I'm 90% certain there was no mention of the MHD effect in the book.<BR><BR>So does Tom Clancy.&nbsp; He actually got annoyed enough once to post to a<BR>newsgroup saying that "No, the drive in the book is _NOT_ MHD!"<BR><BR>C.T.<BR><BR>"If water is suppose to be so good for you, why is it so tasteless?"<BR>Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.<BR><BR>Search the Net and Make Some Cash:<BR>http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng<BR>http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024 <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3169<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3170<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>New FAQ addition<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR>Re: New FAQ addition<BR>RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>Re: Gearheading delight<BR>RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR>Re: New FAQ addition<BR>RE: Gearheading delight<BR>RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: New FAQ addition<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:37:44 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: New FAQ addition<BR><BR>I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for the archives:<BR><BR>"Starship Troopers proves Heinlein was a fascist!"<BR>"Does not!"<BR>"Does too!"<BR>"Not!"<BR>"Too!"<BR>"Not!"<BR>"Too!"<BR>"Duck Season!<BR>"Wabbit Theason!"<BR>etc.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:43:11 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR><BR>&gt; In the book, The Hunt for Red October, Tom Clancy described a water jet<BR>&gt;&nbsp; propulsion system. (He also -erroneously - went into excruciating detail<BR>&gt;&nbsp; into the Soviet Alfa's high pressure water reactor, when in fact the Alfa<BR>&gt;&nbsp; uses&nbsp; a&nbsp; liquid metal cooled reactor.)<BR><BR>Tom is not afraid to make stuff up, and tells such a good story in Hunt for <BR>Red October, I didn't care (and still don't).<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:45:15 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR><BR>&gt; Well, Emperor Strephon seems to have enjoyed _The Princess Bride_ enough<BR>&gt;&nbsp; to have quoted it in his journals....<BR><BR>It's one of the few classics from the Golden Age of 2-D movies to survive the <BR>Long Night. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:58:20 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>&gt; It's growing on me evey time I watch it.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; "You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it<BR>&gt;&nbsp; means..."<BR><BR>And what is (IMO) the finest duelling scene in movie history (beating out <BR>Basil vs Errol in Robin Hood and Basil vs Danny in the Court Jester by a <BR>small margin) . . .<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:01:11 -0700<BR>From: "Tsykoduk" &lt;Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR><BR>ObTrav:Soft and squishy - sometimes yes (Like when the scout reaches his<BR>hand into the obscured panel to insert the new circut breaker and finds a<BR>new, alien life form)<BR><BR>PC - Usally not. (unless it will cause the PC's heartache)<BR><BR>- ----<BR>Not all of us believe in a soft and squishy, politically correct, Star Trek<BR>kind of future.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:08:52 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR><BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com &lt;GDWGAMES@aol.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for the archives:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Starship Troopers proves Heinlein was a fascist!"<BR>&gt;"Does not!"<BR>&gt;"Does too!"<BR>&gt;"Not!"<BR>&gt;"Too!"<BR>&gt;"Not!"<BR>&gt;"Too!"<BR>&gt;"Duck Season!<BR>&gt;"Wabbit Theason!"<BR>&gt;etc.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Keyboard Kill.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:10:04 -0700<BR>From: "Tsykoduk" &lt;Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR><BR>The names of the charactors..<BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>You are correct and are awarded the order of the Carrot. Now, for an<BR>extra prize, can you think of anything in the first film that wasn't<BR>totally ignored in the dreadfull second?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:08:45 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Gearheading delight<BR><BR>Yes, the cool color cutaway drawings....<BR><BR>Pop Mechanics runs articles on it's web site from the previous month.<BR>So online there are articles on the V-44 (a cargo version of the Ospry) and <BR>the F-22.<BR>The LRV article and pics will be on line next month.<BR><BR>You can still have fun with '40 cubic feet' of documents related to the <BR>human health effects of the nuclear rocket program compiled between 1956 &amp; <BR>1975.<BR>According to the article, a DOE spokesbeing says that the only reason these <BR>records would still be classified was if they dealt with an operational <BR>military system.<BR><BR>The theories proposed says this LRV saucer could have been launched by <BR>either a multistage booster or a nuclear rocket that was under development <BR>at the time.&nbsp; The article talks about some crash debris that was found near <BR>a government testing site in Australia. The claim is that the debris looks <BR>like LRV structure designs....<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:18:28 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Tsykoduk [mailto:Tsykoduk@bigfoot.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 17 October 2000 15:01<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Heinlein and fascism<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ObTrav:Soft and squishy - sometimes yes (Like when the scout <BR>&gt; reaches his<BR>&gt; hand into the obscured panel to insert the new circut breaker <BR>&gt; and finds a<BR>&gt; new, alien life form)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; PC - Usally not. (unless it will cause the PC's heartache)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Not all of us believe in a soft and squishy, politically <BR>&gt; correct, Star Trek<BR>&gt; kind of future.<BR><BR>What do you mean soft and squishy!? The Star Trek Federation is the<BR>ultimate fascist state...<BR><BR>Everyone is in Starfleet... a military dictatorship!<BR>The Federation inately believes in their superiority .... a racist<BR>state!<BR>They use the Prime Directive to callously ignore the destruction of<BR>'primitive' cultures, and more often than not ignore it when it becomes<BR>inconvenient.... cultural imperialism!<BR>The leadership is callous and cruel, forcing entire family groups to<BR>staff warships so that if any officer fails in their duty they get to<BR>watch their family members die horribly.<BR>In order to win Peace they sacrificed whole worlds full of colonists to<BR>the Cardassians..... the rights of a citizen are not respected!<BR>There is no crime in the Federation...... (but there is a Penal Colony<BR>in New Zealand, oh.. and admirals go mad, starship captains don't follow<BR>orders, murders are committed, but there is no crime, do you<BR>understand?).<BR>We no longer use money in our economy, no one is poor, everyone has<BR>equal access to resources.... unless you are in starfleet, where you<BR>have access to more resources, and what exactly do their 'Merchants' do<BR>anyway? <BR>They routinely go to war with any race that poses a threat to their<BR>expansionist policies. <BR><BR>And the ultimate dead giveaway.....<BR><BR>Look at the federation symbol... turn it on it's side, you now have the<BR>symbol for the Federation in 'Blakes Seven'. I wouldn't be surprised if<BR>they were the same federation.<BR><BR><BR><BR>There are many other examples... but I must get back to work now!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 00:31:11 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR><BR>Wwwhhoooooppppssss.....&lt;SPLORT&gt; About 6 to 8 oz's.. for "Diet-Coke Caffeine<BR>Free" all over monitor, power manager, mouse, and yes, a KEYBOARD!!!! I<BR>actually starting reading that it was a *real* FAQ addition, and then WHAM,<BR>the broadside from reality hit. And the rest, as they say, is history.<BR><BR>That's twice this month, and I had only or two others previous to this.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;GDWGAMES@aol.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 11:37 PM<BR>Subject: New FAQ addition<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for the archives:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Starship Troopers proves Heinlein was a fascist!"<BR>&gt; "Does not!"<BR>&gt; "Does too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Duck Season!<BR>&gt; "Wabbit Theason!"<BR>&gt; etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:35:16 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Gearheading delight<BR><BR>I also liked the Bird of Prey (nicknamed Switchblade) from the current cover<BR>of Popular Mechanics.&nbsp; Read the article if you can.&nbsp; Based on historical<BR>precedence, that puppy may currently be flying....<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Mark Urbin<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 3:58 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Gearheading delight<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ...or did Ken Hite start writing for Popular Mechanics...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I had to buy the current issue of Popular Mechanics.&nbsp; It had a US Flying<BR>&gt; Saucer launching missiles Earthward.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; PopMechanics claims that through the FoA, they obtained documents<BR>&gt; on an Air<BR>&gt; Force project to build a<BR>&gt; Lenticular Reentry Vehicle (LRV) that was designed to fly at a height of<BR>&gt; 300 miles for up to six weeks, supporting a crew of 4 and four nuclear<BR>&gt; missles (which according to the article fit the description of MIRVs<BR>&gt; without the documents calling them MIRVs).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Here are the specs:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Diameter 40 ft&nbsp; (12.2 meters)<BR>&gt; Center height 90 inches (2.3 meters)<BR>&gt; Edge&nbsp; thickness 6 inches (15 cm)<BR>&gt; Wings 1548 square feet&nbsp; (471 sq meters)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Launch Weight: 45,000 lb (20411 Kg)<BR>&gt; Landing Weight: 33,395 lb (15147 Kg)<BR>&gt; Empty Weight: 17,042 lb (7730 Kg)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Booster Engine: chemical/nuclear<BR>&gt; Main Engine: Hypergoli/Nuclear<BR>&gt; Escape Capsule: solid fuel<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Electric Power: 7 KW (thermal Nuclear)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; ---------<BR>&gt; urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>&gt; Joan of Arc: the patron saint of welders http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>&gt; ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; ---------<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 21:47:37 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>My most favorite Traveller film of all time is the one I haven't made yet :)<BR>I have a full movie studio between equipment I own (camera and editing) and<BR>equipment I have access to at work (sound and lighting, in addition to more<BR>editing equipment and another camera).<BR><BR>Wish I had the time to produce some Traveller movies :)<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:55:26 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>I wish you had time to produce Traveller movies too!<BR><BR>In fact I wish I had the money to give you to make Traveller Movies!<BR><BR>I'd settle for a Traveller TV series!<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Jesse DeGraff [mailto:jdegraff@pacbell.net]<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, 17 October 2000 15:48<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My most favorite Traveller film of all time is the one I <BR>&gt; haven't made yet :)<BR>&gt; I have a full movie studio between equipment I own (camera <BR>&gt; and editing) and<BR>&gt; equipment I have access to at work (sound and lighting, in <BR>&gt; addition to more<BR>&gt; editing equipment and another camera).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Wish I had the time to produce some Traveller movies :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:14:53 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for the archives:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;"Starship Troopers proves Heinlein was a fascist!"<BR>&gt; &gt;"Does not!"<BR>&gt; &gt;"Does too!"<BR>&gt; &gt;"Not!"<BR>&gt; &gt;"Too!"<BR>&gt; &gt;"Not!"<BR>&gt; &gt;"Too!"<BR>&gt; &gt;"Duck Season!<BR>&gt; &gt;"Wabbit Theason!"<BR>&gt; &gt;etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Keyboard Kill.<BR>Yup, as of now, you are _truly_ part of our community. A keyboard kill is a <BR>must ;-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:10:52 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Megan Robertson &lt;mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Legate wrote: "Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a<BR>&gt;couple of landing pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp;<BR>&gt;rehauling bays, &amp; a couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating<BR>&gt;a Class C Starport so he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a<BR>&gt;Starport?&nbsp; And, if so, if Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out<BR>&gt;on his estate &amp; be protected by Imperial Marines?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I would have thought not: it's just a private facility. His movements in<BR>&gt;and out will be subject to local planetary and Imperial law concerning the<BR>&gt;operation of space vehicles, though...<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; OK.<BR><BR>&gt;This Imanoble guy will have to hire his own security goons, who may or may<BR>&gt;not protect him to the uttermost when the chips are down. And who, if<BR>&gt;sufficiently bribed, might let local villains hide out there... hmmm...<BR>&gt;characters hired as said security goons when down on their luck, and a<BR>&gt;whole saga of events ensue.....<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, but what if Count Imanoble decides to allow local villians to hide<BR>out there, himself?<BR><BR>&gt;You rat, Legate, you've given me an idea now..... :-)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thank you.&nbsp; When I ran it, Count Imanoble was running drug drug onto the<BR>world using the other landing pad.&nbsp; His Yacht would use one &amp; the other<BR>would be used by a Free or Far Trader loaded up to the gills with drug drug.<BR><BR>&gt;Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; You know keep that up &amp; people will talk.<BR><BR>&gt;Mexal.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:12:58 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Alan Bradley &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt; From: Megan Robertson<BR>&gt;&gt; This Imanoble guy will have to hire his own security goons, who may or<BR>&gt;&gt; may not protect him to the uttermost when the chips are down. And who, if<BR>&gt;&gt; sufficiently bribed, might let local villains hide out there... hmmm...<BR>&gt;&gt; characters hired as said security goons when down on their luck, and a<BR>&gt;&gt; whole saga of events ensue.....<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; You rat, Legate, you've given me an idea now..... :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's a good idea, too.&nbsp; It can be used fairly generally:&nbsp; what happens when<BR>&gt;any of the rent-a-cops and mercs infesting the Imperium start getting ideas<BR>&gt;above their station.&nbsp; Packing the ranks with some local crooks, and<BR>&gt;protecting the ones with a bit more cash... Oh my yes!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The good thing is that these scum can actually be well equipped with high<BR>&gt;tech gear, given Count Imanoble is (of course!) fabulously wealthy.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;only advantage the PCs have is superior training and discipline....&nbsp; This<BR>&gt;sounds like Striker, as well as "normal" Traveller.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; And, of course this is a way to get the PCs Combat Armor, Battle Dress,<BR>PGMPs, &amp; FGMPs, if you have a mind to.&nbsp; *weg*&nbsp; Remember, if you have foot,<BR>you might want to have horse, or in this case a tank or two.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:14:55 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Legate Legion writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of landing<BR>&gt;&gt;pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp; a<BR>&gt;&gt;couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport<BR>so<BR>&gt;&gt;he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so,<BR>if<BR>&gt;&gt;Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be<BR>protected<BR>&gt;&gt;by Imperial Marines?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I would say no.&nbsp; The starport extrality is (IMTU) established by<BR>treaty<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with the Imperium.&nbsp; I suppose that this would mean that even a<BR>class<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; E starport would technically be extraterritorial?&nbsp; Spaceports would<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; be different, but additional starports would presumably require<BR>some<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; sort of contract between the planet and the Imperium.&nbsp; Finally,<BR>there<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; may be only Imperial Starport Authority Security forces at a<BR>starport<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; with no military base.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; True, but then again, it is basicly a Class C Starport &amp; a way for the<BR>3I to gain some extra credits.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Another point, if a Starport in the 3I is what an airport is today, then<BR>why don't planets have more starports?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:15:43 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Thom Harris &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;I don't have an answer but, I think it would depend more on whether he was<BR>&gt;an Imperial Noble or Local Noble.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; This is Count Imanoble, meaning he is an Imperial Noble.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:17:24 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@h2g2.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Starport status would require that the facilities be public, so Count<BR>Imanoble IV inheriting his dad's starship-landing facilities won't upset<BR>anyone as they're private to begin with.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Public starship-landing facilities would be provided by, or at least with<BR>the agreement of, local government, which answers to the Imperium. The local<BR>government doesn't want a blockade or sanctions, so they license the<BR>Starport and it gets all the usual priveledges. Quite aside from anything<BR>else, Local Government will usually recognize the trade and revenue benefits<BR>of having a starport on-world. They might not like what goes on there, but<BR>they like the money it puts into the on-world economy.<BR>&gt;A world getting popular support for an unsanctioned starport, or the<BR>existence of a rogue/pirate starport would be a good scenario seed.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;During wartime or a state of Imperial emergency, the Count will feel the<BR>pressure to make his facilities available to Imperial forces. He may not<BR>like the troops making the place look untidy, but it beats being seen to be<BR>disloyal.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;- Rob.<BR><BR><BR>Rob,<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Lets say it is semi-public.&nbsp; Sorta like Glendale Airport compared to<BR>Skyharbor Airport.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:18:35 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of<BR>landing<BR>&gt;&gt; pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp;<BR>a<BR>&gt;&gt; couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport<BR>so<BR>&gt;&gt; he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so,<BR>if<BR>&gt;&gt; Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be<BR>protected<BR>&gt;&gt; by Imperial Marines?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Unlikely. The extrality area is likely negotiated as part of the treaty<BR>&gt;that brings a world into the Imperium.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Ah, but it is still a working Starport, &amp; as many have said, the<BR>Imperium rules the space between worlds &amp; the Starports on the Worlds.&nbsp; This<BR>is a Starport on a world is it not?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:21:37 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From the WWF:&nbsp; The Roc answers.<BR><BR>&gt;I have to agree with this.&nbsp; I do understand that some worlds have<BR>&gt;private/corporate starports (Ling, et al.?) and they, to me, are a<BR>judgement<BR>&gt;call on what the GM requires.&nbsp; If the GM needs this Corp-owned world's<BR>&gt;starport to private (Wasn't that the case in one of the Traveller computer<BR>&gt;games?&nbsp; One SP was owned by a company as they owned the entire planet and<BR>&gt;certain laws didn't apply there?) with their own rules, I think that works<BR>&gt;fine.&nbsp; But on a errrr... "typical"(?) world, there should be one or more<BR>&gt;SP's that are "Imperial Property" and possibly a handful (depending upon<BR>the<BR>&gt;world's Pop or industrial base?) of "local government owned and operated"<BR>&gt;Space Ports - not necessarily Star Ports.&nbsp; Perhaps, Lord Imanoble has what<BR>&gt;is classed as a Space Port if there is already an Imperial-sponsored Star<BR>&gt;Port Present?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; But, what is the dividing line between Starport &amp; Spaceport?&nbsp; What if<BR>those handful of Starports can build a free trader?&nbsp; Would they now be<BR>Starports?&nbsp; And, if so what does it do the UWP?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 03:24:28 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>&lt;david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;"Legate Legion" posed:<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of<BR>landing<BR>&gt;&gt;pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp; a<BR>&gt;&gt;couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport<BR>so<BR>&gt;&gt;he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so,<BR>if<BR>&gt;&gt;Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be<BR>protected<BR>&gt;&gt;by Imperial Marines?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You mean like Tavonni? No, the Count uses his Household Troops.&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Basicly he would then be using a Marine Reserve Unit?<BR><BR>&gt;Ahem. It's a spaceport unless he negotiates with the Imperium (and the<BR>planet -<BR>&gt;unless he owns, it of course!) to make the 'port extraterritorial.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Aha, but it has everything a Class C port has.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3170<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3171<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>RE: Starport administration<BR>RE: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: New FAQ addition<BR>RE: Group Administrator?<BR>RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR>RE: jump time<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>RE: New FAQ addition<BR>Aslan and heredity<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: New FAQ addition<BR>G:T TNS for 350-1117<BR>Red October<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Red October<BR>Re: Traveller movie studio?<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:29:10 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt; It's growing on me evey time I watch it.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; "You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; means..."<BR><BR><BR>Inconceivable...<BR><BR><BR>&gt;And what is (IMO) the finest duelling scene in movie history (beating out<BR>&gt;Basil vs Errol in Robin Hood and Basil vs Danny in the Court Jester by a<BR>&gt;small margin) . . .<BR><BR><BR>And far be it from me to argue the toss with LKW, but I have to disagree<BR>here.&nbsp; Danny Kaye in the Court Jester is simply marvellous and WRT to the<BR>duelling scene mentioned above you get such an added bonus as he<BR>vascillates between being a master swordsman and a complete wimp that even<BR>_The Princess Bride_ doesn't *quite* match it IMO.<BR><BR>Then again this is (perhaps sadly) one of my favourite films so I may be<BR>biased. I still fall apart everytime I watch him play the mute old man at<BR>the beginning.&nbsp; Anyone know where I can get hold of the script?<BR><BR><BR>Altogether now...<BR>"Get it?"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:46:14 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>&gt; At 17:38 -0400 16/10/00,&nbsp; "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Why does each jump take one week? That seems _far_ too long for traveling<BR>a<BR>&gt; &gt;mere parsec (or less). So how about three days, or even the below system:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; !!!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In real world terms it takes 3.27 *years* for light to cross a<BR>&gt; parsec. Traveller FTL is quite fast (J1 is effectively ~155 light<BR>&gt; years / year (in practicality half that speed because of refueling)<BR>&gt; and J6 is 6 times that).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Why does it seem too long to you?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Fundamentally, it just *is* that speed because the game designers<BR>&gt; chose it to be so. If you want a faster FTL drive then fine, but you<BR>&gt; are changing one of the precepts that the game universe is built on.<BR><BR>Get a copy of FF&amp;S and let your ships use the Jerome Effect Stutterwarp<BR>drive instead of the Traveller jump drive. Stutterwarps give a speed roughly<BR>between 0.5 and 4 lightyears per day of travel (depending on ech level). The<BR>drives have a maximum range (7.7 lightyears is a good value, but I suppose<BR>it differs with TL) between stops in gravity wells, which keeps them<BR>balanced gamewise. Stutterwarp drives are used in the GDW products<BR>Traveller:2300 and AD2300, to good effect.<BR><BR>FF&amp;S also contains a couple of other jump drive alternatives, but I think<BR>that the classic Traveller jump drive and the stutterwarp are the best<BR>alternatives.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:07:41 +0100<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Another point, if a Starport in the 3I is what an airport <BR>&gt; is today, then<BR>&gt; why don't planets have more starports?<BR><BR>Because the average planetary population is about the same as that of a<BR>small city in our terms... how many small cities do you know with more<BR>than one International Airport.<BR><BR>Most Hi Pop world will have several facilities capable of handling<BR>spacecraft on the mainworld, as well as other facilities scattered<BR>throughout the remaining planets/satellites of the system<BR><BR>However, *any* space facility, other than the principal starport, is<BR>rated as a *spaceport*, not a *starport*.<BR><BR>IMTU, Spaceports are only licensed for non-jump vessels. For a Jump<BR>capable vessel to land there, it must declare an emergency, or the<BR>facility must be the only one on the planet/satellite in question<BR><BR>That said, I would allow Nobles and Corps to have private *starports*<BR>under very strict Imperial licences (i.e. strict rules as to which ships<BR>can land/take-off there, under what circumstances, regular inspections,<BR>an Imperial Customs Agent on site at all times etc etc). Whether this<BR>private facility would come under local or Imperial Jurisdiction would<BR>be a matter of the specific terms of the licence.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:46:38 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR><BR>I had no problems reading Kiri's mails until now. Ho Hum<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 12 October 2000 23:19<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This message uses a character set that is not supported by <BR>&gt; the Internet Service.&nbsp; To view the original message content,&nbsp; <BR>&gt; open the attached message. If the text doesn't display <BR>&gt; correctly, save the attachment to disk, and then open it <BR>&gt; using a viewer that can display the original character set. <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:28:05 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Legate Legion" <BR>&gt; From: Alan Bradley <BR>&gt; &gt;The good thing is that these scum can actually be well equipped with<BR>&gt; &gt;high tech gear, given Count Imanoble is (of course!) fabulously wealthy.<BR>&gt; &gt;The only advantage the PCs have is superior training and discipline.... <BR>&gt; &gt;This sounds like Striker, as well as "normal" Traveller.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, of course this is a way to get the PCs Combat Armor, Battle<BR>&gt; Dress, PGMPs, &amp; FGMPs, if you have a mind to.&nbsp; *weg*&nbsp; <BR><BR>Or very conspicuously dead...<BR><BR>&gt; Remember, if you have foot, you might want to have horse, or in this case<BR>&gt; a tank or two.<BR><BR>No, that's the point of the scum having so much kit:&nbsp; it isn't possible for<BR>the PCs to have better hardware, so they have to rely on the wetware.&nbsp; <BR><BR>That is, the enemy have tanks too...&nbsp; and any other toy the PCs have!&nbsp; One<BR>of the unpleasant things about mercenary type scenarios is the "beating up<BR>the low-tech natives" effect.&nbsp; This situation is one where the bad guys<BR>have as much (or more, but there better setups for this case) nifty gear as<BR>the good guys, so the fight is "fair", except, of course, for the military<BR>genius of the PCs (ha ha!)&nbsp; <BR><BR>Of course, any merc that gets into this kind of situation regularly is<BR>likely to have a rather short career, but PCs are exactly the kind of<BR>nutcases who would take on such suicidally dumb tickets.&nbsp; <BR><BR>It would be useful to add some kind of time (or strong financial)<BR>constraint, to make sure that the sensible course of going away and<BR>recruiting a division to take out the port isn't an option.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 06:08:36 -0700<BR>From: "Pronto" &lt;Pronto_r031@telus.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: &lt;GDWGAMES@aol.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for the archives:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Starship Troopers proves Heinlein was a fascist!"<BR>&gt; "Does not!"<BR>&gt; "Does too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Duck Season!<BR>&gt; "Wabbit Theason!"<BR>&gt; etc.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; LKW<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>LOL<BR>Yep, that sums it up nicely.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:22:05 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Group Administrator?<BR><BR>Hi Tom, <BR><BR>I've sent an unsubscribe request for your email address. I assume you're on<BR>Traveller, not Traveller-digest? Anyway, you should get the majordomo<BR>confirmation email shortly.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Thomas Lawnsby [mailto:tsculler@earthlink.net]<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 October 2000 03:20<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Group Administrator?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Is there a group administrator/moderator for this newsgroup?<BR>&gt; I need to unsubscribe but my email requests are not going through.<BR>&gt; Thanks, Tom.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:34:25 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Then why do Scotsmen carry Katana swords?<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Or, for that matter, anything in the series?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Let me clarify: Can you think of anything that was in the <BR>&gt; first film that <BR>&gt; wasn't totally ignored in the series?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ObTraveller: Maybe planet Zeist is out there somewhere...<BR><BR><BR>Maybe not...and I really, REALLY mean that. The Scotsmen carrying katanas<BR>problem was the least of the Highlander series' problems. Here's a&nbsp; quite<BR>apt summary of the Highlander series, by Brunching Shuttlecocks:<BR><BR>http://www.brunching.com/selfmade/highlanderendgame.html<BR><BR>Dean<BR>ps: to forstall my death by flame mail, I'd just like to say that I really<BR>liked the first Highlander movie, and I found the others to be quite<BR>entertaining, as long as you ignored the inconsistancies and silliness.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:59:22 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: jump time<BR><BR>James Jensen writes:<BR>&gt;That may be so, but how many shows/novels/movies incorporate an FTL drive <BR>&gt;that takes a week per jump/skip/transit/etc? Just because no FTL radio _is_ <BR>&gt;a good idea (makes things more exciting), why should it take a _week_ to go <BR>&gt;someplace?<BR>&gt;Most jump drives in sci-fi are _instantaneous_. Why should Traveller's take <BR>&gt;so long? Three days, maybe five, seems just fine to me!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Instantaneous sounds fine to me.&nbsp; So does 2,548.773 hours.&nbsp; So does<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 month per parsec of jump.&nbsp; So does 1 week for any jump.&nbsp; Of course<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; change it if that suits YTU, I have certainly changed a few things IMTU.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The one week in jump is one thing that I haven't changed because it is<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; part of the Traveller feel for me.&nbsp; Similar drives are not unknown<BR>in sf,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and anyways any such drive's workings are pretty arbitrary.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:44:56 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>Howyd!<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; It's growing on me evey time I watch it.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; "You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; means..."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And what is (IMO) the finest duelling scene in movie history (beating out <BR>&gt; Basil vs Errol in Robin Hood and Basil vs Danny in the Court Jester by a <BR>&gt; small margin) . . .<BR>&gt; <BR>Although I do like the Sean Connery vs. Robert Shaw duel in Robin &amp; Marian.<BR>Two old guys having it out... *gasp* *wheeze*<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Herveus<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:45:03 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: New FAQ addition<BR><BR>Loren posted;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for the archives:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Starship Troopers proves Heinlein was a fascist!"<BR>&gt; "Does not!"<BR>&gt; "Does too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Duck Season!<BR>&gt; "Wabbit Theason!"<BR>&gt; etc.<BR><BR>OWWW! Not only was that a keyboard kill, that was a sinus kill.<BR>Coffee up the nose hurts!<BR><BR>Loren, you may have just won the TML's "Most Keyboard Kills<BR>From One Email" award.<BR><BR><BR>David Smart<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:51:32 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Aslan and heredity<BR><BR>Question: Firstborn sons in the Hierate inherit the land from their fathers,<BR>and second and subsequent sons become ihatei, right? What happens in the<BR>event of missing-presumed-dead sons, who later turn up? Or long-lost elder<BR>brothers? Are there any illegitimate Aslan? <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:57:27 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR><BR>Any notable others that might have survived.&nbsp; For example, what does the 3I<BR>citizen (or Strephon for that matter) think of , say, Star Wars. :)<BR><BR>&lt;Duck&gt;<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;GDWGAMES@aol.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 11:45 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Well, Emperor Strephon seems to have enjoyed _The Princess Bride_ enough<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to have quoted it in his journals....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's one of the few classics from the Golden Age of 2-D movies to survive<BR>the<BR>&gt; Long Night.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:59:45 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; It's growing on me every time I watch it.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; "You keep using that word...I do not think it means what <BR>&gt; you think it<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; means..."<BR><BR>LOL!<BR><BR>As part of a corporate spin-off this month, my coworkers and<BR>I recently had to provide proof of citizenship to our "new" <BR>company. The Human Resources dept. posted large posters all<BR>over the work area with the words "Are You Legitimate?" as <BR>a reminder.<BR><BR>One day later, someone else had printed and posted signs next<BR>to the posters with an arrow pointing to the "L" word,<BR>followed by:<BR><BR>"You keep using that word...I do not think it means what <BR>you think it means..."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- Inigo Montoya from The Princess Bride<BR><BR><BR>We all, of course, died laughing.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 08:24:05 -0700 (MST)<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; It's growing on me evey time I watch it.<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; "You keep using that word...I do not think it means what you think it<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; means..."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And what is (IMO) the finest duelling scene in movie history (beating out <BR>&gt; Basil vs Errol in Robin Hood and Basil vs Danny in the Court Jester by a <BR>&gt; small margin) . . .<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Well, I'll disagree with you here. _I_ think the best duelling scene in<BR>movie history is the entirety of _The Duellists_. <BR><BR>The climactic battle in the aptly named Swashbuckler, between Peter Boyle<BR>and Robert Shaw is pretty good.<BR><BR>Willam Hobbs' fight direction in The Three/Four Musketeers (the 1970's<BR>Richard Lester) versions serve up some spectacular swordplay, as well. (he<BR>was also fight director for The Duellists)<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:03:54 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>Actually that whole movie was pretty good and yes the dueling scenes were<BR>EXCELLENT. Kind of a *sleeper* movie with Keith Carradine and Harvey<BR>Keitel....I really enjoyed it more the second time I watched it.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Bruce Johnson" &lt;johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:24 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, I'll disagree with you here. _I_ think the best duelling scene in<BR>&gt; movie history is the entirety of _The Duellists_.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:17:50 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>I clipped something from one of your other posts Legate and I'm replying to<BR>both of them here...<BR><BR>Your quote-----------------------------<BR>Another point, if a Starport in the 3I is what an airport is today, then why<BR>don't planets have more starports?<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR><BR>My Response-------------------------<BR>Wouldn't that actually be more like Cape Canaveral; that is the closest<BR>thing we have to a *space* port today. Think of the security we use there<BR>and where the spectators are located to watch launches and landings.....<BR><BR>Your quote-----------------------------<BR>This is Count Imanoble, meaning he is an Imperial Noble.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR><BR>My Response-------------------------<BR>I actually read that as "I'm a Noble", I'm not sure what the original author<BR>had in mind....<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:39:32 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>Well, why not do it all CG? Get a-rendering there, Jesse! I can see it<BR>now: 'Ditzie's Toy Story' the heartwarming tale of a young girl and her<BR>favorite high-energy toys...;-)<BR><BR>Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My most favorite Traveller film of all time is the one I haven't made yet :)<BR>&gt; I have a full movie studio between equipment I own (camera and editing) and<BR>&gt; equipment I have access to at work (sound and lighting, in addition to more<BR>&gt; editing equipment and another camera).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Wish I had the time to produce some Traveller movies :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jesse<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:44:45 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for the archives:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Starship Troopers proves Heinlein was a fascist!"<BR>&gt; "Does not!"<BR>&gt; "Does too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Duck Season!<BR>&gt; "Wabbit Theason!"<BR>&gt; etc.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; LKW<BR><BR><BR>&lt;SPLORT&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:51:32 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: G:T TNS for 350-1117<BR><BR>Congrats to Loren on todays TNS...most amusing. Your assignment today,<BR>class: compare and contrast with events in the Rebellion timeline. :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:54:16 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Red October<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:43:11 EDT<BR>&gt; From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; In the book, The Hunt for Red October, Tom Clancy described a water jet<BR>&gt; &gt; propulsion system. (He also -erroneously - went into excruciating detail<BR>&gt; &gt; into the Soviet Alfa's high pressure water reactor, when in fact the Alfa<BR>&gt; &gt; uses&nbsp; a&nbsp; liquid metal cooled reactor.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tom is not afraid to make stuff up, and tells such a good story in Hunt for <BR>&gt; Red October, I didn't care (and still don't).<BR><BR>And he makes stuff up in an informed, plausible, internally-consistent<BR>way, most of the time.&nbsp; And also gets a great deal dead-on accurate.<BR><BR>In the late 80s, I switched jobs from General Dynamics to Rockwell; in my<BR>new job, I'd be working on submarine-warfare projects.&nbsp; It took about a<BR>month for my clearance to follow me down from GD, during which time I was<BR>basically in limbo, unable to see anything directly related to the work I<BR>would be doing.&nbsp; In desperation, I asked my boss if there was anything<BR>unclassified I should be reading to get up to speed.&nbsp; He handed me<BR>Burdig's classic textbook on underwater acoustics, a few volumes of<BR>Jane's, and a copy of _The Hunt for Red October_.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:51:44 -0500<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>I can just see it....<BR><BR>Ditzie's Toy Story: Charred Plastic and Twisted Metal<BR><BR>Ditzie: "Oh Buuuuuuuzzzzzzz Liiightyear, your weapon is sooo big...miiiine<BR>is bigger though." Blam! Blam! Blam!<BR><BR>Ditzie's Toy Story Two: The Cataclysm at Mattel Inc.<BR><BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Bruce Johnson" &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:39 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Well, why not do it all CG? Get a-rendering there, Jesse! I can see it<BR>&gt; now: 'Ditzie's Toy Story' the heartwarming tale of a young girl and her<BR>&gt; favorite high-energy toys...;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; My most favorite Traveller film of all time is the one I haven't made<BR>yet :)<BR>&gt; &gt; I have a full movie studio between equipment I own (camera and editing)<BR>and<BR>&gt; &gt; equipment I have access to at work (sound and lighting, in addition to<BR>more<BR>&gt; &gt; editing equipment and another camera).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Wish I had the time to produce some Traveller movies :)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jesse<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; University of Arizona<BR>&gt; College of Pharmacy<BR>&gt; Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:03:13 -0500<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Red October<BR><BR>Nothing was meant by his error, but the whole premise for the Politovsky<BR>dying in the book was implausible. Truth be told, the Alfas were always a<BR>little spooky anyway: the one left in service can never shut its reactor<BR>down. When it runs out of fuel, that's it...new reactor time. There is no<BR>practical way to refuel the design.<BR><BR>I loved the Hunt for Red October, and yes, it is required reading now for<BR>any submariner, not that it isn't "One Great Yarn", it is a fantastic yarn.<BR><BR>Clancy takes license in most of his books to do that sort of thing.<BR>(Inventing weapons that don't exist for instance - Rainbow Six's MP-10, even<BR>though it is a technically feasable weapon for HK to produce, HK has never<BR>offered an integrally suppressed .40 caliber/10mm MP-5 variant.)<BR><BR>If you want a better strategy and tactics book by him (and Larry Bond),<BR>check out Red Storm Rising. THAT is a book that will get you thinking about<BR>Submarine Tactics.<BR><BR><BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Craig Berry" &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:54 AM<BR>Subject: Red October<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 23:43:11 EDT<BR>&gt; &gt; From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; In the book, The Hunt for Red October, Tom Clancy described a water<BR>jet<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; propulsion system. (He also -erroneously - went into excruciating<BR>detail<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; into the Soviet Alfa's high pressure water reactor, when in fact the<BR>Alfa<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; uses&nbsp; a&nbsp; liquid metal cooled reactor.)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Tom is not afraid to make stuff up, and tells such a good story in Hunt<BR>for<BR>&gt; &gt; Red October, I didn't care (and still don't).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And he makes stuff up in an informed, plausible, internally-consistent<BR>&gt; way, most of the time.&nbsp; And also gets a great deal dead-on accurate.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In the late 80s, I switched jobs from General Dynamics to Rockwell; in my<BR>&gt; new job, I'd be working on submarine-warfare projects.&nbsp; It took about a<BR>&gt; month for my clearance to follow me down from GD, during which time I was<BR>&gt; basically in limbo, unable to see anything directly related to the work I<BR>&gt; would be doing.&nbsp; In desperation, I asked my boss if there was anything<BR>&gt; unclassified I should be reading to get up to speed.&nbsp; He handed me<BR>&gt; Burdig's classic textbook on underwater acoustics, a few volumes of<BR>&gt; Jane's, and a copy of _The Hunt for Red October_.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>&gt;&nbsp; --*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:13:35 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller movie studio?<BR><BR>&gt;From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;My most favorite Traveller film of all time is the one I haven't made yet :)<BR>&gt;I have a full movie studio between equipment I own (camera and editing) and<BR>&gt;equipment I have access to at work (sound and lighting, in addition to more<BR>&gt;editing equipment and another camera).<BR><BR>&nbsp; Hmm, item #1349, $180 US, "LEGO Studios Steven Spielberg MovieMaker Set".<BR>Includes low-end (c'mon, how much resolution do you need for a LEGO brick?)<BR>consumer digicam with built-in microphone, full-motion video (30 fps) and<BR>digital still modes, and all necessary software. `Tis a shame that there's<BR>no option for a zoom lens, though...<BR><BR>&nbsp; And if you think I'm kidding, see:&nbsp; www.LEGO.com/Studios<BR><BR>&nbsp; Well, now you know what to get Steve Jackson for X-Mas?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3171<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3172<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR>Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR>Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR>Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR>Re: Starport Administration<BR>Re: Super Vocanos, Super Flows<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>Re: Red October versus MHD<BR>re: Jump Time<BR>Re: On-Topic: Sisters of Mercy<BR>Re: Battlefleet Mars<BR>Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR>Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR>Re: New FAQ addition<BR>Re: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:11:13 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hmm, item #1349, $180 US, "LEGO Studios Steven Spielberg <BR>&gt; MovieMaker Set".<BR>&gt; Includes low-end (c'mon, how much resolution do you need for <BR>&gt; a LEGO brick?)<BR>&gt; consumer digicam with built-in microphone, full-motion video <BR>&gt; (30 fps) and<BR>&gt; digital still modes, and all necessary software. `Tis a shame <BR>&gt; that there's<BR>&gt; no option for a zoom lens, though...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; And if you think I'm kidding, see:&nbsp; www.LEGO.com/Studios<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, now you know what to get Steve Jackson for X-Mas?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Hmm, Jurassic Park: The All Lego version. &lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:05:30 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson posted:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; MHD means, if I recall correctly, magnetohydrodynamic.&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; What is that,<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; exactly?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Basicly, it means you have a conductive fluid flowing thru a tube or<BR>&gt;&gt; nozzle, with a magnetic field at right angles to the flow, and are<BR>&gt;&gt; either drawing off an electrical current at right angles to *both* the<BR>&gt;&gt; flow and magnetic field, or are supplying a current at right angles to<BR>&gt;&gt; both. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; If you are drawing off current, you are slowing down (or cooling off,<BR>&gt;&gt; or both) the flow to get the energy. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; If you are feeding in a current, you are driving the flow. This is how<BR>&gt;&gt; the liquid sodium is "pumped" in sodium cooled nuclear reactors.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Is this the science behind the so-called "caterpillar drive" in the movie <BR>&gt; "The Hunt For Red October"?<BR><BR>Maybe. But it'd act a *lot* different than the way they had it acting<BR>there. <BR><BR>In the *book*, the drive was definitely uing some sort of impellers in<BR>the tunnel. And that caused the low frequency "rumble" that Dallas's<BR>sonar tech noticed.<BR><BR>In the movie, they still had him doing the exact same thing, but<BR>claimed the drive was MHD. Probably because that sounded "sexier" and<BR>more "high tech".<BR><BR>The problem with that is that an MHD drive *wouldn't* produce the<BR>rumble (which was likely some sort of "beat frequency" between the sets<BR>of impellers).<BR><BR>Also, while seawater is somewhat conductive, the magnetic fields and<BR>current levels required to use it in an MHD "jet" would cause massive<BR>problems. Corrosion near the electrodes, the magnetic fields screwing<BR>up gear on the sub, and worst of all, the magnetic fields would peg a<BR>magnetic anomaly detector a *long* ways off. Sort of like towing a neon<BR>sign saying "Here I am!"<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:00:27 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>I just found out that my company is going to be sending me to our UK office<BR>in Reading for two weeks - starting next week.&nbsp; While I expect to be buried<BR>in the office for most of the time, I might be able to break away for a bit<BR>on the weekend (I hope).&nbsp; Are there any listmembers in that vicinity?&nbsp; Are<BR>there any good game stores out there?&nbsp; Can you buy the BITS materials over<BR>the counter in the UK, or are they mail-order there, too?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Heck, what's the weather like right now??<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:13:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In the book, The Hunt for Red October, Tom Clancy described a water jet<BR>&gt; propulsion system. (He also -erroneously - went into excruciating detail<BR>&gt; into the Soviet Alfa's high pressure water reactor, when in fact the Alfa<BR>&gt; uses&nbsp; a&nbsp; liquid metal cooled reactor.)<BR><BR>AIIIEEEEE!!!!!!<BR><BR>They use a liquid metal cooled reactor *at sea*?!?!?!<BR><BR>That's insane!<BR><BR>I'm sure they get lots of power. But a coolant leak wouldn't merey<BR>damage the sub and contaminate the reactor room. It'd be likely to<BR>*destroy* the sub. <BR><BR>&gt; However, in the cinematic version, the movie referenced a MHD drive for the<BR>&gt; Red October. AFAIK, the MHD drives currently being tested in the U.S. and<BR>&gt; Japan provide only enough thrust for about 3 or 4 knots. A far cry from the<BR>&gt; 13 knots in the book, and 22 in the movie!<BR><BR>And as I note in another message, they must have one *hell* of a<BR>magnetic signature.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:18:15 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; "Matthew W. Helton" wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; In the book, The Hunt for Red October, Tom Clancy described a water jet<BR>&gt;&gt; propulsion system. (He also -erroneously - went into excruciating detail<BR>&gt;&gt; into the Soviet Alfa's high pressure water reactor, when in fact the Alfa<BR>&gt;&gt; uses&nbsp; a&nbsp; liquid metal cooled reactor.)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; However, in the cinematic version, the movie referenced a MHD drive for the<BR>&gt;&gt; Red October. AFAIK, the MHD drives currently being tested in the U.S. and<BR>&gt;&gt; Japan provide only enough thrust for about 3 or 4 knots. A far cry from the<BR>&gt;&gt; 13 knots in the book, and 22 in the movie!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OTOH...AFAIK the only test bed for MHD water propulsion is<BR>&gt; owned/operated by a Japanese company or university...it can do 6 or 7<BR>&gt; knots...but it doesn't have a whacking great nuke power plant like a<BR>&gt; Typhoon....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ...and yes the working fluid has to be conductive...sea water works<BR>&gt; but fresh water doesnae have enough dissolved salts and minerals...<BR><BR>The velocity of the fluid is proportional to the current flow *and* to<BR>the magnetic field strength.<BR><BR>There's a hard limit to how much current you can push thru a given<BR>amount of seawater. Between accelerated corrosion, electrolysis, and<BR>plain old resistive heating, you run into limits pretty fast. <BR><BR>That leaves cranking up the magnetic field. Which has its own problems,<BR>both with stuff like induced currents in shipboard wiring, to the<BR>effects on electronics.<BR><BR>And, of course, if a MAD (Magnetic Anomaly Detector) can locate a sub<BR>thru hundreds of feet of water with a normal hull that's been<BR>de-gaussed, a sub with an MHD drive out to be detectable a lot farther<BR>off. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:25:41 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport Administration<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; One related question that this brought up in my mind is the<BR>&gt; question of extradition.&nbsp; If you commit a crime on World A,<BR>&gt; and escape the star port or go off planet (or otherwise escape<BR>&gt; to Imperial jurisdiction) are you free and clear?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think that if you could commit any crime and not be sent back, then <BR>&gt; every world would either have huge security barriers at every port or <BR>&gt; would be hard pressed to maintain local laws within any reasonable<BR>&gt; travel distance of the port (which on high tech planets could<BR>&gt; include the whole planet).&nbsp; Any crime where the perpetrator<BR>&gt; would have any notice that they are about to be caught (many<BR>&gt; cases of fraud, etc.) would be unenforceable.&nbsp; There are also<BR>&gt; adventures where the consequence of a local crime follows the<BR>&gt; PC (like the Traveller adventure).<BR><BR>Consider the "real world". Say 50-100 years ago (or more). Unless it<BR>was a major crime, merely "skipping town" was good enough. If the<BR>locals were sufficiently upset, they'd notify places they though you<BR>might go, and send out "Wanted" posters. <BR><BR>An important detail that needs to be determined is what *Imperial* law<BR>does or doesn't say about bounty hunters. As I understand it, US law<BR>gives bounty hunters (at least ones going after folks who have jumped<BR>bail) a lot of powers/rights that someplace such as England probably<BR>doesn't.<BR><BR>&gt; OTOH, I don't see the Imperium forcing you back for committing<BR>&gt; a crime that isn't generally seen as a crime elsewhere.&nbsp; For<BR>&gt; examples violating a religious prohibition on one world.<BR><BR>On the other hand, they may not stop a bounty hunter from arresting you<BR>either.<BR><BR>&gt; My take is that the Imperium maintains the right to send violators,<BR>&gt; or not, based on some criteria.&nbsp; It may be that anything that is<BR>&gt; also a crime in Imperial jurisdictions (you are still someplace<BR>&gt; where you are considered a criminal for what you have done) is<BR>&gt; cause to be returned.&nbsp; Perhaps it is a case where it is based<BR>&gt; on its own discretion and the local official decides what is<BR>&gt; extraditable.&nbsp; Another alternative is that there is an official<BR>&gt; policy on what is extraditable.<BR><BR>Odds are that if a bounty hunter can get you into Imperial jurisdiction<BR>(ie inside the local starport), and can show a warrant issued by a<BR>legitimate planetary government, the Imperials won't interfere much. <BR><BR>The local government might not take too kindly to you arresting the guy<BR>on their turf though. <BR><BR>So, you can try to trick the guy into entering the extrality area. Or<BR>you can try a "snatch", which, if you are caught, will at the very<BR>least get you bounced off the planet, and possibly get *you* arrested<BR>if the locals don't recognize the crime.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:43:19 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Super Vocanos, Super Flows<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Per Encyclopedia Britannica:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Some hot spots are associated with massive<BR>&gt; eruptions of lava and ash, primarily of basaltic<BR>&gt; composition, which cover vast areas as extensive<BR>&gt; as tens or hundreds of square kilometres. Such<BR>&gt; flood basalts, or traps, buried the Snake River<BR>&gt; Plain west of Yellowstone a few million years ago,<BR>&gt; the Columbia River Valley some 20,000,000 years<BR>&gt; ago, and central India (the Deccan traps)<BR>&gt; 60,000,000 to 65,000,000 years ago. Flood basalts<BR>&gt; create a remarkably flat surface that is later<BR>&gt; dissected into a network of sharply incised valleys<BR>&gt; (see plateau)."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Note the date on the Deccan outflow.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There is some speculation that the huge outflow of CO2 and other gases<BR>&gt; from the Deccan outflow, and their consequent drastic impact on the<BR>&gt; climate, had as much or more to do with the Cretaceous global extinction<BR>&gt; event as the Chixulub impact...I saw a show on volcanos (with lots of<BR>&gt; cool new lava footage from Kiluea btw) just this weekend on the<BR>&gt; Discovery Channel.<BR><BR>There's also some speculation that the Deccan "eruption" was<BR>*triggered* by the asteroid impact. That area is pretty close to being<BR>on the "opposite" side of the world, which is where the shock waves<BR>going thru the crust would "converge" causing almost as much fun as at<BR>the impact site.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:47:24 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I know that this is heresy and I may well be persecuted for this, but here <BR>&gt; goes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Why does each jump take one week? That seems _far_ too long for traveling a <BR>&gt; mere parsec (or less).<BR><BR>Because if jumps take too much less time, the speed of communication<BR>become high enough that you won't have an Empire with "man on the spot"<BR>delegated authority, you'll have a government where headquarters has to<BR>approve/veto everything.<BR><BR>&gt; So how about three days, or even the below system:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Time = 7*P/J<BR>&gt; where P is the number of parsecs traveled (round up) and J is the Jump <BR>&gt; Number used to get there.<BR><BR>First objection is that this means that not only can a high jump ship<BR>go *farther*, it can go *faster* on shorter jumps. Which means that if<BR>you try to get away from someone by jumping, and they have any ships<BR>with a higher jump number, they'll be *waiting* for you when you come<BR>out.<BR><BR>This changes tactics *and* strategy beyond recognition.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:52:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; That may be so, but how many shows/novels/movies incorporate an FTL drive <BR>&gt; that takes a week per jump/skip/transit/etc? Just because no FTL radio _is_ <BR>&gt; a good idea (makes things more exciting), why should it take a _week_ to go <BR>&gt; someplace?<BR><BR>Because the game is trying to recreate the feel of times when it *did*<BR>take a long time to get from place to place.<BR><BR>&gt; Most jump drives in sci-fi are _instantaneous_. Why should Traveller's take <BR>&gt; so long? Three days, maybe five, seems just fine to me!<BR><BR>Actually, they *aren't*. Henlein had stories with instant "jumps"<BR>(Starman Jones, Tunnel in the Sky), and ones where it took time to get<BR>from A to B at FTL (all the Future History stuff from Methuselah's<BR>Children, on)<BR><BR>Norton's FTL is of the "you are in hyperspace for some period of time".<BR><BR>Travveller's drive isn't what most folks who try to categorize such<BR>things would consider a "jump drive". It fits better as a "hyperdrive"<BR>(ie something that dumps you into a hyperspace/subspace for the trip).<BR><BR>The basic "categories" as I recall them from the last time<BR>rec.arts.sf.science went into this are something like this:<BR><BR>I. STL<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; A. very much less than c<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1. generation ships<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2. sleeper ships<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; B. near c<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1. bussard ramjets<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2. self contained near c<BR><BR>II. FTL<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; A. FTL in "real space" <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; B. FTL via hyperspace/subspace<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; C. FTL via "jumps"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; D. Wormholes<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; E. "warp" drives (ie distort space to shorten trip, it can be<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; argued that instant jumps are the limiting case of warp drives)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 11:04:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Red October versus MHD<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; David Smart:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Basicly, it means you have a conductive fluid flowing thru a tube or<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; nozzle, with a magnetic field at right angles to the flow, and are<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; either drawing off an electrical current at right angles to *both* the<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; flow and magnetic field, or are supplying a current at right angles to<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; both.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; If you are drawing off current, you are slowing down (or cooling off,<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; or both) the flow to get the energy.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; If you are feeding in a current, you are driving the flow. This is how<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; the liquid sodium is "pumped" in sodium cooled nuclear reactors.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Is this the science behind the so-called "caterpillar drive" in the movie<BR>&gt;&gt; "The Hunt For Red October"?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I had the impression that there were relatively conventional bladed <BR>&gt; propellors (or impellers) in the caterpillar/tunnel drive in Red October<BR>&gt; (at least I got that from four readings of the book; I don't remember the<BR>&gt; movie much).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm 90% certain there was no mention of the MHD effect in the book.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Leonard, does the fluid have to be conductING or just conductIVE for the<BR>&gt; effect to work? Would seawater qualify?<BR><BR>For a given magnetic field strength, the higher the current, the faster<BR>the flow. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:28:17 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Jump Time<BR><BR>At 23:35 -0400 16/10/00, "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;That may be so, but how many shows/novels/movies incorporate an FTL drive<BR>&gt;that takes a week per jump/skip/transit/etc? Just because no FTL radio _is_<BR>&gt;a good idea (makes things more exciting), why should it take a _week_ to go<BR>&gt;someplace?<BR><BR>Why shouldn't it take a week?<BR><BR>&gt;Most jump drives in sci-fi are _instantaneous_. Why should Traveller's take<BR>&gt;so long? Three days, maybe five, seems just fine to me!<BR><BR>So change it IYTU but just remember that you have effectively halved <BR>the communications lag which permits closer control of the Imperium, <BR>thus changing some of the aspects of the game's background.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:30:14 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On-Topic: Sisters of Mercy<BR><BR>At 23:35 -0400 16/10/00, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>&gt;Chalk up a keyboard-kill! I had to explain this one to a work colleague (don't<BR>&gt;worry, this is after he showed me a few pics of the "Magic <BR>&gt;Roundabout" in the UK<BR>&gt;- - imagine a roundabout with 5 small roundabouts placed around the <BR>&gt;outside, and a<BR>&gt;central roundabout that runs in reverse! Not something you want to <BR>&gt;encounter in<BR>&gt;the dead of night!).<BR><BR><BR>The joys of Swindon....<BR><BR>Actually, it feels a hell of a lot safer during the dead of night ;-)<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:43:10 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Battlefleet Mars<BR><BR>At 11:00 +0000 17/10/00, Nyrath the nearly wise &lt;nyrath@clark.net wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Battlefleet Mars is a classic.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; The main map can actually be used as an "orrey", to show<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; the position of the planets at various times in the past<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; or the future.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; And it is one of the few games I know of that has a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; tactical system which is *both* 3-D and vector movement.<BR><BR>Hmm pay day on Friday. i think this may get bought...<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; StarForce (cool map)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Universe RPG (cooler map)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Outreach (cool map, bland game)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; The Sword And The Stars (fabulous multiplayer astropolitical game)<BR><BR>I'll keep an eye out for these...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:28:26 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR><BR>I'm digging through my old Traveller library for references on this guy.<BR>Any pointers?<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com - Opinions should be yours too!<BR>"Tension, apprehension and dissension have begun." -- Alfred Bester<BR>http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:41:10 -0500<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Leonard Erickson" &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 1:13 PM<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In the book, The Hunt for Red October, Tom Clancy described a water jet<BR>&gt; &gt; propulsion system. (He also -erroneously - went into excruciating detail<BR>&gt; &gt; into the Soviet Alfa's high pressure water reactor, when in fact the<BR>Alfa<BR>&gt; &gt; uses&nbsp; a&nbsp; liquid metal cooled reactor.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; AIIIEEEEE!!!!!!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; They use a liquid metal cooled reactor *at sea*?!?!?!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's insane!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm sure they get lots of power. But a coolant leak wouldn't merey<BR>&gt; damage the sub and contaminate the reactor room. It'd be likely to<BR>&gt; *destroy* the sub.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; However, in the cinematic version, the movie referenced a MHD drive for<BR>the<BR>&gt; &gt; Red October. AFAIK, the MHD drives currently being tested in the U.S.<BR>and<BR>&gt; &gt; Japan provide only enough thrust for about 3 or 4 knots. A far cry from<BR>the<BR>&gt; &gt; 13 knots in the book, and 22 in the movie!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And as I note in another message, they must have one *hell* of a<BR>&gt; magnetic signature.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR><BR>Oh yeah, it uses an alloy of Bismuth and Lead...the reactor has to maintain<BR>a temperature of at least 125 Degrees centigrade to keep the "coolant"<BR>liquid. There was an accident with two Alfas...The first Alfa (K377)<BR>suffered a reactor shutdown that resulted in the coolant solidifying in the<BR>primary coolant loop: that sub was dismantled shortly thereafter. The second<BR>happened in 1980...two tons of coolant leaked out into the reactor spaces.<BR>That&nbsp; Alfa took 8 years to decontaminate and get fitted with a new reactor.<BR>This particular Alfa (K123) is the only one still in service.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:59:34 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR><BR>BRUCE!!!! You too, I think that makes four (4) keyboards for Loren on that<BR>one post.....Damn near an *ace* on one outing.<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Bruce Johnson" &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 12:44 PM<BR>Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR><BR><BR>&gt; GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for the archives:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&lt;&lt;&lt;SNIPPED&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; etc.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; LKW<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;SPLORT&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:14:08 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR><BR>Survival Margin or Rebellion Handbook has his story, for one source. I'm<BR>not sure where else he shows up. I know it's in one (or maybe both) of<BR>those.<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I'm digging through my old Traveller library for references on this guy.<BR>&gt; Any pointers?<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:23:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now, here is a tough question, Count Imanoble builds a couple of<BR>&gt; landing<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; pads, a control tower, a refueling station, a repair &amp; rehauling bays, &amp;<BR>&gt; a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; couple of hangers all on his estate, basicly creating a Class C Starport<BR>&gt; so<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; he can land his yacht there.&nbsp; Does this count as a Starport?&nbsp; And, if so,<BR>&gt; if<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Count Imanoble upsets the locals can he hid out on his estate &amp; be<BR>&gt; protected<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; by Imperial Marines?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Unlikely. The extrality area is likely negotiated as part of the treaty<BR>&gt;&gt;that brings a world into the Imperium.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Ah, but it is still a working Starport, &amp; as many have said, the<BR>&gt; Imperium rules the space between worlds &amp; the Starports on the Worlds.&nbsp; This<BR>&gt; is a Starport on a world is it not?<BR><BR>No more so than the *private* airfields many busineses, ranches, etc<BR>have qualify as "international airports". <BR><BR>There's almost certainly a specific *legal* meaning of "starport" that<BR>this won't meet.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:25:24 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Another point, if a Starport in the 3I is what an airport is today, then<BR>&gt; why don't planets have more starports?<BR><BR>Same reason most cities don't have more than one "international<BR>airport", even if they *do* have multiple airports (which most cities<BR>*don't* have). <BR><BR>Remember, most planets have less population than many current major cities!<BR>The median population is in the "hundreds of thousands" range.<BR><BR>ps. In case you weren't aware of it "international airport" designatesd<BR>an airport that's allowed to have international air traffic arrive and<BR>department on a non-emergency basis. It's got to have customs<BR>facilities and a whole bunch of other stuff that a regular airport<BR>doesn't have.<BR><BR>I expect that the distinction between "spaceport" and "starport" will<BR>be similar.<BR><BR>It's possible for a private field to have international flights arrive<BR>or depart, but the paperwork to keep customs happy gets messy (or so<BR>I'm told).<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:41:49 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I can just see it....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ditzie's Toy Story: Charred Plastic and Twisted Metal<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ditzie: "Oh Buuuuuuuzzzzzzz Liiightyear, your weapon is sooo big...miiiine<BR>&gt; is bigger though." Blam! Blam! Blam!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ditzie's Toy Story Two: The Cataclysm at Mattel Inc.<BR><BR>Why am I reminded of the old story about the plastic parts on some of<BR>the early M16s being made by Mattel?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3172<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (rly-ye04.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.201]) by air-ye01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:21:41 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:21:15 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA47234;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:20:30 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:19:01 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA47097<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:19:01 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:19:01 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010172019.QAA47097@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3172<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3173<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>Re: Red October<BR>Re: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR>Re: Starport Administration<BR>Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR>Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR>Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: Aslan and heredity<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR>Re: Red October<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>re: Gearheading delight<BR>Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>RE: jump time<BR>Re: Going to England (OT)<BR>RE: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:00:02 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 11:00 +0000 17/10/00, Nyrath the nearly wise &lt;nyrath@clark.net wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Battlefleet Mars is a classic.<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The main map can actually be used as an "orrey", to show<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the position of the planets at various times in the past<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or the future.<BR><BR>And I recommend that until we get computer support for such, GMs should<BR>consider creating such maps for each star system the players visit<BR>often. <BR><BR>Noticeably elliptical orbits will require a bit of work with a<BR>calculator to get right (the "day" marks will be close together near<BR>the star and much farther apart away from it). Even so, it may be worth<BR>it. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Outreach (cool map, bland game)<BR><BR>If nothing else, it's useful for "grand strategic" level mapping for<BR>*big* traveller campaigns. At ~1200 ly (~400 parsecs) to the hex,<BR>"known space" fits comfortably into one hex.<BR><BR>And I suspect that having a "copy" of the map mounted on the wall, with<BR>"known space" and the Zhodani core expeditions marked, will impress the<BR>players. Especially if you let them know where the Magellanic Clouds<BR>and Andromeda are in relation to the map... (IIRC, they'll be in the<BR>next room or maybe the next house)<BR><BR>For "extra credit" have the Outreach map pinned up at one end of the<BR>wall, and use some pins and thread to go from the "known space" hex to<BR>a known space map on the scale of the old GDW map (ie to indicate that<BR>the "GDW map is an "exploded view" of the hex). Then do the same for<BR>sectors from the GDW map. :-)<BR><BR>Hey, Bruce! Is there a good 2-d "map" of the local group of galaxies?<BR>How about the cluster/supercluster they belong to?<BR><BR>It'd be fun to have a serries of maps scaling from the "hubble limit"<BR>down to regular sector/subsector maps.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:53:59 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I had no problems reading Kiri's mails until now. Ho Hum<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dean<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt;&gt; From: Kiri Aradia Morgan [mailto:tiamat@tsoft.com]<BR>&gt;&gt; Sent: 12 October 2000 23:19<BR>&gt;&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: Japanese Language indicia in email<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; This message uses a character set that is not supported by <BR>&gt;&gt; the Internet Service.&nbsp; To view the original message content,&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; open the attached message. If the text doesn't display <BR>&gt;&gt; correctly, save the attachment to disk, and then open it <BR>&gt;&gt; using a viewer that can display the original character set. <BR><BR>This is a truly *stupid* feature of many mailers (including Kiri's)... <BR><BR>They should wait until the message text is *entered* before setting<BR>the character set line in the header. Or, at least, they should<BR>*review* it before sending the message. <BR><BR>If there's nothing but ASCII text, they shouldn't *have* a character<BR>set line. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 12:44:10 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Red October<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Nothing was meant by his error, but the whole premise for the Politovsky<BR>&gt; dying in the book was implausible. Truth be told, the Alfas were always a<BR>&gt; little spooky anyway: the one left in service can never shut its reactor<BR>&gt; down. When it runs out of fuel, that's it...new reactor time. There is no<BR>&gt; practical way to refuel the design.<BR><BR>On the other hand, I can think of entirely too many *really*<BR>messy/spectacular ways for a liquid metal cooled reactor to fail on a<BR>sub. <BR><BR>Liquid sodium and air or water are a *real* bad combo.<BR><BR>ObTrav: the PCs encounter a ship from a newly recontacted (after the<BR>Long Night or Hard Times), or newly discovered (almost anytime) world. <BR><BR>It's much like the ship in Rocket Ship Galileo... That is, it's a NERVA<BR>temp design using liquid metal as fuel! Zinc was used in the book.<BR>Mercury is too insane for even aliens, but other metals are<BR>interesting. Picture a rocket with metal vapor exhaust...<BR><BR>&gt; If you want a better strategy and tactics book by him (and Larry Bond),<BR>&gt; check out Red Storm Rising. THAT is a book that will get you thinking about<BR>&gt; Submarine Tactics.<BR><BR>Oh yeah! <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:38:05 GMT<BR>From: "Michael Bitrick" &lt;mbitrick@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR><BR>He is definately in the Rebellion sourcebook.&nbsp; Specifically in the section <BR>on the two princes.&nbsp; He was interviewing Varian regarding an upcoming <BR>expedition when the assassination occurred.&nbsp; He is also one of only two <BR>surviving witnesses to Varian's murder (the other being Lucan).<BR><BR>Hope this helps.<BR><BR>Mike<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:48 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport Administration<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;v04220805b61103930251@[128.102.70.88]&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>On extradition: I see there being an 'Imperial Codex' of laws which hold <BR>good throughout the Imperium, plus whatever local laws individual planets <BR>wish to impose on their territories and citizens. No local law may <BR>contravene an Imperial one.<BR><BR>Anyone who commits an act in breach of Imperial law is going to be at risk <BR>from arrest wherever he goes in the Imperium. Depending on the severity of <BR>the alleged offence, he may be actively sought or even hunted, or just <BR>find that his name is flagged when he tries to transact normal business <BR>within the Imperium.<BR><BR>Someone in breach of planetary law will be PROBABLY safe once he's got <BR>off-planet. Remember that the really heinous crimes will be covered by <BR>Imperium law, so if he's murdered someone or robbed a bank, normal <BR>Imperial law will kick in.<BR><BR>However, many planets may take breaches of their own local laws a bit more <BR>seriously. Is there a bounty hunter in the house? While the Imperial <BR>police forces won't be very interested in someone who failed to wear pink <BR>on St Suzie's Day, if it is actually illegal on Suzie-world not to do so, <BR>they won't object if a bounty hunter comes along and collars the <BR>fashion-conscious red head and drags him back...<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:57:11 -0400<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR><BR>Note: I sometimes manage to confuse 'cascades' and 'clusters', so I'm not<BR>using either term.&nbsp; What I mean by 'included skills' is the situation where<BR>one skill can be used as another (usually at a lower level) - for example,<BR>being able to use your Grav Vehicle skill at -1 to operate an Air Raft.<BR><BR>TTBOMR, in all versions of Traveller published to date - I don't know if<BR>the concept exists in GURPS, nor how it works if it does - the rules state<BR>that if you have the actual skill (e.g., if you have Air Raft skill in the<BR>example above), it is that which governs, rather than being able to use the<BR>related skill (e.g., Grav Vehicle) - even if using the related skill would<BR>result in a higher level, and thus a better chance at succeeding.<BR><BR>This does not make sense to me. If I can figure out how to use something<BR>based on my knowledge of something else, gaining knowledge specific to what<BR>I was previously figuring out should not make me effectively _less_ skilled<BR>than _not_ gaining that specific knowledge.<BR><BR>Does anyone have a _sensible_ way of handling this?<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:09:05 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR><BR>Sure. Just use whichever is higher.<BR><BR>Or, for a more complex game, use the following system:<BR>(R/2) + S = L<BR>Where R is the related skill level, S is the actual skill level (if any) and <BR>V is the skill level used for the task. Round down. Use (R/4) for T4, where <BR>skill levels tend to be higher.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:57:11 -0400<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Note: I sometimes manage to confuse 'cascades' and 'clusters', so I'm not<BR>&gt;using either term.&nbsp; What I mean by 'included skills' is the situation where<BR>&gt;one skill can be used as another (usually at a lower level) - for example,<BR>&gt;being able to use your Grav Vehicle skill at -1 to operate an Air Raft.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;TTBOMR, in all versions of Traveller published to date - I don't know if<BR>&gt;the concept exists in GURPS, nor how it works if it does - the rules state<BR>&gt;that if you have the actual skill (e.g., if you have Air Raft skill in the<BR>&gt;example above), it is that which governs, rather than being able to use the<BR>&gt;related skill (e.g., Grav Vehicle) - even if using the related skill would<BR>&gt;result in a higher level, and thus a better chance at succeeding.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;This does not make sense to me. If I can figure out how to use something<BR>&gt;based on my knowledge of something else, gaining knowledge specific to what<BR>&gt;I was previously figuring out should not make me effectively _less_ skilled<BR>&gt;than _not_ gaining that specific knowledge.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Does anyone have a _sensible_ way of handling this?<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;Jeff Zeitlin<BR>&gt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:12:28 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin writes:<BR>&gt; TTBOMR, in all versions of Traveller published to date - I don't know if<BR>&gt; the concept exists in GURPS, nor how it works if it does - the rules state<BR>&gt; that if you have the actual skill (e.g., if you have Air Raft skill in the<BR>&gt; example above), it is that which governs, rather than being able to use the<BR>&gt; related skill (e.g., Grav Vehicle) - even if using the related skill would<BR>&gt; result in a higher level, and thus a better chance at succeeding.<BR><BR>In GURPS, your actual skill is never lower than the default, because you raise it from the default.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:15:28 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; Hey, Bruce! Is there a good 2-d "map" of the local group of galaxies?<BR>&gt; How about the cluster/supercluster they belong to?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It'd be fun to have a serries of maps scaling from the "hubble limit"<BR>&gt; down to regular sector/subsector maps.<BR><BR>On a related note, does anyone have any suggestions on obtaining a good 2-D<BR>or even 3-D map of about a 100LY radius of Earth, more would be good.&nbsp; I<BR>need to be able to identify specific stars on the map.&nbsp; It would really help<BR>if it's a public domain map, or at least something currently in print that I<BR>can refer to in order to make my own map.<BR><BR>I've got the following stars that I need to identify on the map (some of<BR>which may be fictional).<BR><BR>Earth<BR>Procyon<BR>Antares<BR>Achernar<BR>Mirach<BR>Algol<BR>Ensis<BR>Betelgeuze<BR>Arcturus<BR>Unukalhai<BR>Algenubi<BR>Regulus<BR>Alhena<BR>Markeb<BR>Dorsum<BR>Deneb<BR>Rigel<BR><BR>If anyone can offer a good suggestion on a map that will work for me I'd<BR>really appreciate it!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Zane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:15:47 +0200<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aslan and heredity<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; Question: Firstborn sons in the Hierate inherit the land from their fathers,<BR>&gt; and second and subsequent sons become ihatei, right? What happens in the<BR>&gt; event of missing-presumed-dead sons, who later turn up? Or long-lost elder<BR>&gt; brothers? Are there any illegitimate Aslan?<BR><BR>In case of a thought-dead-but-later-returned first son, I can see two<BR>alternatives (with some variations of each):<BR><BR>1) The returned son has the right to the land. Depending on his personal<BR>relation with his brother, the younger brother might end up:<BR>1a) Dead (killed by the returned son)<BR>1b) Still in possession of the land (the oldest son either killed or<BR>exiled)<BR>1c) A vassal of his older brother (honorable, and thus quite likely)<BR><BR>2) The oldest son, having legally been declared dead, no longer has the<BR>rights to the land. Instead, he is now:<BR>2a) Ihatei, having to earn his own land from scratch.<BR>2b) Thrown out of the system, acting as a rogue outside the clan.<BR><BR>All of these possibilities have a lot of adventuring potential. As a<BR>referee, I would give the following rulings:<BR><BR>A) The rules and norms in these kinds of situations differ from clan to<BR>clan.<BR><BR>B) The rules and norms of the clan in question are whatever would make<BR>for the most interesting story. <BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:26:27 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>healyzh@aracnet.com writes:<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Hey, Bruce! Is there a good 2-d "map" of the local group of galaxies?<BR>&gt; &gt; How about the cluster/supercluster they belong to?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; It'd be fun to have a serries of maps scaling from the "hubble limit"<BR>&gt; &gt; down to regular sector/subsector maps.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On a related note, does anyone have any suggestions on obtaining a good 2-D<BR>&gt; or even 3-D map of about a 100LY radius of Earth, more would be good.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; need to be able to identify specific stars on the map.&nbsp; It would really<BR>&gt; help if it's a public domain map, or at least something currently in print<BR>&gt; that I can refer to in order to make my own map.<BR><BR>Any 100 ly flat map will be unreadable.&nbsp; I suggest finding chview (http://members.nova.org/~sol/chview/), which is a PC program for showing nearby stars.&nbsp; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've got the following stars that I need to identify on the map (some of<BR>&gt; which may be fictional).<BR><BR>Of those which aren't fictional, most of them are well over 100 light-years <BR>from earth (I didn't bother to check them all).&nbsp; Most well-known stars are <BR>extremely luminous types at great distances from earth.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:31:04 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt; puts on the Ether:<BR>&gt;Survival Margin or Rebellion Handbook has his story, for one source. I'm<BR>&gt;not sure where else he shows up. I know it's in one (or maybe both) of<BR>&gt;those.<BR><BR>Ah....the two books in the back room storage...<BR>This is *not* a sign that I have too much Traveller stuff!<BR><BR>Thanks!<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>Vikings? There ain't no vikings here. Just us honest farmers. The town was<BR>burning, the villagers were dead. They didn't need those sheep anyway.<BR>That's our story and we're sticking to it.&nbsp; http://www.bigfoott.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:32:28 -0700<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Red October<BR><BR>on 10/17/00 10:03 AM, Matthew W. Helton at mwhelton@cox-internet.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Clancy takes license in most of his books to do that sort of thing.<BR>&gt; (Inventing weapons that don't exist for instance - Rainbow Six's MP-10, even<BR>&gt; though it is a technically feasable weapon for HK to produce, HK has never<BR>&gt; offered an integrally suppressed .40 caliber/10mm MP-5 variant.)<BR><BR>No much of a stretch, though, since HK did produce a 10mm version of the<BR>MP-5 for the FBI.&nbsp; It would seem to be a small matter to have produced a<BR>10mm version of the MP-5SD.<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:08:12 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Well, why not do it all CG? Get a-rendering there, Jesse! I can see it<BR>&gt;now: 'Ditzie's Toy Story' the heartwarming tale of a young girl and her<BR>&gt;favorite high-energy toys...;-)<BR><BR>&gt;Bruce Johnson<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; You know, if we were really sick people we could all take this the wrong<BR>way.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:23:33 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Another point, if a Starport in the 3I is what an airport<BR>&gt;&gt; is today, then<BR>&gt;&gt; why don't planets have more starports?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Because the average planetary population is about the same as that of a<BR>&gt;small city in our terms... how many small cities do you know with more<BR>&gt;than one International Airport.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Matt, the average planetary population is at around population 7, or 10<BR>million to 90 million.&nbsp; If 10 million people make up a small city to you,<BR>then Phoenix with its population of 3 million must be a village.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Now, Phoenix, at a population of 3 million has (in Traveller Terms):<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 Class A Starport:&nbsp; Skyharbor.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 Naval Base:&nbsp; Luke Airforce Base.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1 Class B Starport:&nbsp; Deervalley Airport.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3 Class C Starports:&nbsp; Glendale Airport, Mesa Airport, &amp; Scottsdale<BR>Airport.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Going by this it would seem that a Pop 6 world could have 1 Class A, 1<BR>Class B, &amp; several Class C Starports with no problem.<BR><BR>&gt;Most Hi Pop world will have several facilities capable of handling<BR>&gt;spacecraft on the mainworld, as well as other facilities scattered<BR>&gt;throughout the remaining planets/satellites of the system<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I agree.<BR><BR>&gt;However, *any* space facility, other than the principal starport, is<BR>&gt;rated as a *spaceport*, not a *starport*.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I disagree.&nbsp; A Spaceport is not the same thing as a Starport.&nbsp; A<BR>Spaceport cannot build anything, but a Starport can build a Starship.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:40:20 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Alan Bradley &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; And, of course this is a way to get the PCs Combat Armor, Battle<BR>&gt;&gt; Dress, PGMPs, &amp; FGMPs, if you have a mind to.&nbsp; *weg*<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Or very conspicuously dead...<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Shhh, Alan, we don't want the players to know that, do we?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Remember, if you have foot, you might want to have horse, or in this case<BR>&gt;&gt; a tank or two.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;No, that's the point of the scum having so much kit:&nbsp; it isn't possible for<BR>&gt;the PCs to have better hardware, so they have to rely on the wetware.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Correct.&nbsp; That is the point.&nbsp; If Count Imanoble hires some Mercs to<BR>guard his Starport, &amp; he is doing something illegal out of it, they may want<BR>to have a few tanks, you know.&nbsp; Just in case.<BR><BR>&gt;That is, the enemy have tanks too...&nbsp; and any other toy the PCs have!&nbsp; One<BR>&gt;of the unpleasant things about mercenary type scenarios is the "beating up<BR>&gt;the low-tech natives" effect.&nbsp; This situation is one where the bad guys<BR>&gt;have as much (or more, but there better setups for this case) nifty gear as<BR>&gt;the good guys, so the fight is "fair", except, of course, for the military<BR>&gt;genius of the PCs (ha ha!)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; That is the idea, the bad guys are much better armed than the PCs.<BR>Gauss Rifle (PC) vs PGMP (Bad Guy).&nbsp; Air/Raft (PC) vs Grav Tank (Bad Guy).<BR><BR>&gt;Of course, any merc that gets into this kind of situation regularly is<BR>&gt;likely to have a rather short career, but PCs are exactly the kind of<BR>&gt;nutcases who would take on such suicidally dumb tickets.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It would be useful to add some kind of time (or strong financial)<BR>&gt;constraint, to make sure that the sensible course of going away and<BR>&gt;recruiting a division to take out the port isn't an option.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Correct.&nbsp; Of course if the Count Imanoble is an Imperial Noble &amp; you go<BR>out &amp; hire a Division of Mercs to take him out, what are the chances that<BR>the 3I will not have a Big Happy Fun Ball (Tigeress) in orbit of Count<BR>Imanoble's World to protect him?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Even if Count Imanoble is a Drug Drug Smuggler, &amp; at the same time a<BR>Imperial Noble, you most likely will have the face the full might of the 3I<BR>to take him down &amp; you will lose &amp; lose big.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:36:00 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Gearheading delight<BR><BR>&gt;From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I had to buy the current issue of Popular Mechanics.&nbsp; It had a US Flying <BR>&gt;Saucer launching missiles Earthward.<BR><BR>&gt;Here are the specs:<BR><BR>I think it's better as a Striker vehicle than High Guard, on first glance.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:46:55 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>Thom Harris posted: <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; BRUCE!!!! You too, I think that makes four (4) keyboards for <BR>&gt; Loren on that<BR>&gt; one post.....Damn near an *ace* on one outing.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Bruce Johnson" &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 12:44 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for <BR>&lt;snip&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;SPLORT&gt;<BR><BR>Actually I think the count is up to 6. Therefore...<BR><BR>&lt;/megaphone mode on&gt;<BR>HEAR YE! HEAR YE! DUE TO POSTS ABOVE AND BEYOND THE CALL,<BR>WHICH HAVE RESULTED IN THE REACTIVE PROJECTION OF FLUIDS<BR>THROUGHOUT TML MEMBERS' HOMES AND DEVASTATION OF KEYBOARDS<BR>ACROSS THE WEB, LOREN WISEMAN IS HEREBY NOMINATED FOR THE <BR>TML'S "TOP GUN OF KEYBOARD KILLS" AWARD.<BR><BR>ALL IN FAVOR?<BR>&lt;/megaphone mode off&gt;<BR>&lt;/listening mode on&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:54:42 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>Legate Legion writes:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Because the average planetary population is about the same as that of a<BR>&gt; &gt;small city in our terms... how many small cities do you know with more<BR>&gt; &gt;than one International Airport.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Matt, the average planetary population is at around population 7, or 10<BR><BR>Depends on how you define 'average'.&nbsp; The average population digit is 5.&nbsp; The<BR>average population is around a billion, because the population curve is really<BR>really skewed ;)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:01 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: RE: jump time<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;01JVFUCB441G00B7DI@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I am quite happy with the 1 week per Jump rule.<BR><BR>Works nicely in making interstellar travel possible without being <BR>everyday. My mental picture is 1900s sea travel, it took maybe 5-10 days <BR>to get around on a ship between continents.<BR><BR>When I am a player, as I am usually an engineer, I use the time for such <BR>interesting pursuits as studying the nature of Jump and going EVA to the <BR>consternation of the rest of the crew...<BR><BR>As a DM, I have several different FTL mechanisms available. And strangely <BR>enough they all even out to about 1 week per excursion....<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:01 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;E5F33EAB0BD5D31196DA009027E03E5527550A@crater.odetics.com&gt;<BR>Greetings gang, especially Rodney.<BR><BR>Have a look at http://rpgauk.com/ - this may give some <BR>possible groups to get in touch with (general gamers rather <BR>than pure TRAVELLER...). The site webmaster, Ratty, lives <BR>in Reading, by the way :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:03:46 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>More on the whole 'who is to blame' between Lucan and Dulinor.<BR><BR>I was wondering if Lucan was actually legal in dissolving the Moot <BR>for a year. Well, having read the Warrant of Restoration again (Mo <BR>Campaign) I think that it is both yes and no.<BR><BR>Yes - Article VIII - Acknowledgement of Imperial Power: claims that <BR>"*the Imperium, for the purpose of ensuring its continued safety and <BR>stability, reserves to itself the power to unilaterally enact changes <BR>in any or all aspects of the relationship between itself and any <BR>member world or citizen*."<BR><BR>Yes - Article II - The Emperor, Hereditary Succession: *the powers of <BR>the Imperium shall be vested in an Emperor*.<BR><BR>Conclusion 1: Dulinor's actions are a clear threat to the Imperium. <BR>Lucan exercises his powers as Emperor to dissolve the Moot to protect <BR>the safety and stability of the Imperium.<BR><BR><BR>No - Article II, The Emperor, Hereditary Succession: 'Upon such <BR>death, or abdication, the title and powers shall pass to the oldest <BR>child of the Emperor, whether by birth or adoption, provided that the <BR>child shall have been publicly acknowledged as the rightful heir of <BR>the Emperor *by the Emperor*, and providing that *there are no <BR>conditions that would disqualify the child as fit to maintain the <BR>powers of the Imperium'.<BR><BR>No - Article III - the Moot, Nobility: 'The Imperial Moot shall have <BR>two powers over the Emperor: They shall have the power to declare the <BR>dissolution of the Imperium, and they shall have the power to <BR>disqualify an Imperial Heir Apparent from ascending to the Imperial <BR>Power. However, the latter power shall only be exercised for just and <BR>proper cause. If the Emperor dies or abdicates having provided no <BR>heirs either by blood or adoption, or if no heir of the Emperor is <BR>found fit to maintain the Powers of Imperium, the Moot shall have the <BR>power to designate the next recipient of the Imperial Powers.'<BR><BR>No - Article VIII - Acknowledgement of Imperial Power: <BR>'Notwithstanding any provisions to the contrary contained in this <BR>document or in subsequent Imperial actions..'<BR><BR>Conclusion 2: Whether Lucan murdered his brother or not, he ignored <BR>the Moot's Right to confirm him. This is even more significant in <BR>that he is not the oldest child of the Emperor either by birth or <BR>adoption and has not (to our knowledge) been publicly acknowledged as <BR>heir apparent. Admittedly, it may have been tradition that the <BR>extended family are considered in the succession, but the Moot still <BR>had the right to confirm his succession. His house arrest of Duke <BR>Simalr following the Moot's objections to the private ceremony was <BR>out of line, as was his dissolution of the Moot. Strictly, it appears <BR>that the only way the Emperor can dissolve the Moot is to strip the <BR>nobles who are recognised members of their status. Hence Lucan is not <BR>*legally* the Emperor in 1116, and others such a Margaret and Bzrk <BR>had legitimate hopes to become Emperor.&nbsp; Conclusion 1 is therefore <BR>flawed as Lucan is not Emperor, and has ignored the parts of Article <BR>VIII that clearly give the Moot the power to confirm him first.<BR><BR>Therefore, Lucan has made either a blatant power grab, or is <BR>deliberately violating the document which gives the basis of the <BR>Third Imperium. I've already argued that he is responsible for the <BR>formation of a further 5 factions; this post just confirms that Lucan <BR>was acting illegally *whatever* the story of the assassination <BR>attempt on his brother and himself.<BR><BR>Hence, Dulinor is responsible for precipitating the crisis. Lucan <BR>destroyed the Third Imperium by his illegal actions. Dulinor shook <BR>the edifice, and Lucan pushed it over by ripping at its bedrock.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------<BR>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion<BR>that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.<BR>You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -<BR>'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's<BR>MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3173<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (rly-yg02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.2]) by air-yg04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:08:08 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:07:28 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id SAA54403;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:06:40 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:05:10 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id SAA54023<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:05:10 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:05:10 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010172205.SAA54023@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3173<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tuesday, October 17 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3174<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR>re: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>RE: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR>Name Generator 'Released'<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>capitals (was maps)<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: LEGO<BR>RE: Starport administration<BR>Re: Kills<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:21:50 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR><BR>At 16:19 -0400 17/10/00, Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;I'm digging through my old Traveller library for references on this guy.<BR>&gt;Any pointers?<BR><BR>MT Rebellion Sourcebook p8-9 is where Windhook is discussed, primarily.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:16:32 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>At 16:19 -0400 17/10/00, Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;I just found out that my company is going to be sending me to our UK office<BR>&gt;in Reading for two weeks - starting next week.&nbsp; While I expect to be buried<BR>&gt;in the office for most of the time, I might be able to break away for a bit<BR>&gt;on the weekend (I hope).&nbsp; Are there any listmembers in that vicinity?&nbsp; Are<BR>&gt;there any good game stores out there?&nbsp; Can you buy the BITS materials over<BR>&gt;the counter in the UK, or are they mail-order there, too?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Heck, what's the weather like right now??<BR><BR>I'm at the other end of the country, I'm afraid. Leisure Games (in <BR>London, a reasonably short train ride from Reading) is pretty good, <BR>and should have BITS stuff available.<BR><BR>The South East (Kent, East Sussex) has just had bad floods (but not <BR>quite as bad as those in Turin, Northern Italy. The North West is <BR>cold with sporadic showers of rain, the news said the South East is <BR>dull (snigger). Temperature is ranging between 9 and 15 C on the <BR>charts tonight.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:11:42 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR><BR>At 19:02 +0000 17/10/00,&nbsp; "Bruce Macintosh" <BR>&lt;bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;do they have any significant ability to attack targets on land? (Which<BR>&gt;I know isn't a necessary condition for blue-water-navyness)? ie, do they<BR>&gt;have TLAM or anything like it? For that matter, does any non-US navy<BR>&gt;have long-range anti-land-target cruise missiles?<BR><BR>The UK has Tomahawk installed on some submarines.<BR><BR>There is also a programme running to procure a European equivalent <BR>next generation land attack missile.<BR><BR>Speaking of missiles, it was interesting that they decided to buy <BR>AMRAAM initially for the Typhoon (Eurofighter) with a future European <BR>built missile to replace it. My gut feeling is that aside from the <BR>jobs side, the decision came to improve the export chance the <BR>aircraft.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 15:16:13 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:00:02 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; At 11:00 +0000 17/10/00, Nyrath the nearly wise &lt;nyrath@clark.net wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The main map can actually be used as an "orrey", to show<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the position of the planets at various times in the past<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or the future.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And I recommend that until we get computer support for such, GMs should<BR>&gt; consider creating such maps for each star system the players visit<BR>&gt; often. <BR><BR>This makes nice color, but it's a lot of work.&nbsp; Having a few template<BR>systems and recording T0 positions might be more practical.<BR><BR>&gt; Noticeably elliptical orbits will require a bit of work with a<BR>&gt; calculator to get right (the "day" marks will be close together near<BR>&gt; the star and much farther apart away from it).<BR><BR>Actually, the reverse is true.&nbsp; Near the star, the planet is moving<BR>faster, and thus covers more space per day.&nbsp; Far from the star, the planet<BR>moves slower, and covers less space per day.&nbsp; I once read a fascinating<BR>article about comets, which made the point that a long-period comet spends<BR>essentially all of its time effectively at maximum distance from the sun,<BR>for precisely this reason.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Outreach (cool map, bland game)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If nothing else, it's useful for "grand strategic" level mapping for<BR>&gt; *big* traveller campaigns. At ~1200 ly (~400 parsecs) to the hex,<BR>&gt; "known space" fits comfortably into one hex.<BR><BR>That was my problem with the map (and game concept), actually.&nbsp; Trying to<BR>sum up millions of star systems in a single hex's "terrain type" pushed<BR>well past my personal limit of acceptable abstraction.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:17:16 -0400<BR>From: howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng)<BR>Subject: Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR><BR>&gt;Speaking of missiles, it was interesting that they decided to buy <BR>&gt;AMRAAM initially for the Typhoon (Eurofighter) with a future European <BR>&gt;built missile to replace it. My gut feeling is that aside from the <BR>&gt;jobs side, the decision came to improve the export chance the <BR>&gt;aircraft.<BR><BR>At last check, the RAF had decided to go with the Meteor instead of the<BR>AMRAAM, much to the chagrin of many people Stateside.<BR><BR>It was widely believed that MoD's decision to lease some C-17 Globemaster<BR>IIIs was suppose to be a consolation prize for not choosing an American<BR>missile.&nbsp; Then again, not many people in the world are building military<BR>transport aircraft like the Globemaster.<BR><BR>C.T..<BR><BR><BR>"If water is suppose to be so good for you, why is it so tasteless?"<BR>Cheng Tseng - Will econ forecast for food.<BR><BR>Search the Net and Make Some Cash:<BR>http://www.catpile.com/index.shtml?refid=ctseng<BR>http://www.searchcactus.com/member/welcome.asp?7024 <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:19:49 -0500<BR>From: Richard Persky &lt;richardp@mac.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>on Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:00:02 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; At 11:00 +0000 17/10/00, Nyrath the nearly wise &lt;nyrath@clark.net wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Outreach (cool map, bland game)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If nothing else, it's useful for "grand strategic" level mapping for<BR>&gt; *big* traveller campaigns. At ~1200 ly (~400 parsecs) to the hex,<BR>&gt; "known space" fits comfortably into one hex.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Hm.&nbsp; A copy of Outreach just showed up at my local used-book store.&nbsp; Is<BR>it worth $8?<BR><BR>&nbsp; Richard<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 19:35:46 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR><BR>Legate Legion writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;Because the average planetary population is about the same as that of a<BR>&gt;&gt;small city in our terms... how many small cities do you know with more<BR>&gt;&gt;than one International Airport.<BR>&gt;Matt, the average planetary population is at around population 7, or 10<BR>&gt;million to 90 million.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; That depends on what you mean by "average."&nbsp; On 2D-2 the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; arithmatic mean (perhaps the most common mathematical<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; meaning of "average") Pop is 5, or 500,000 sophonts<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (assuming a symetrical distribution of Pop multipliers).&nbsp; If you<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; calculate the arithmatic mean number of sophonts, it comes<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to 5,050,505,050.&nbsp; If, on the other hand, you are thinking about<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the "usual" or "typical" population, the mode (the most<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; commonly occuring Pop) is 5 (100,000-900,000).&nbsp; You might<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; consider the median (the point at which half the Pop's are<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; lower and half higher), which is 5 (500,000).&nbsp; I think that Matt<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; was talking about cities of 100,000-900,000.<BR><BR>&gt;If 10 million people make up a small city to you,<BR>&gt;then Phoenix with its population of 3 million must be a village.<BR>&gt;Now, Phoenix, at a population of 3 million has (in Traveller Terms):<BR>&gt;1 Class A Starport:&nbsp; Skyharbor.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Wow!&nbsp; They are building starships in Phoenix?!&nbsp; Those<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; guys have all the fun.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :)<BR><BR>&gt;1 Naval Base:&nbsp; Luke Airforce Base.<BR>&gt;1 Class B Starport:&nbsp; Deervalley Airport.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cool!&nbsp; They build interplanetary ships and do annual<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; maintenance on starsips at this airport.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :)<BR><BR>&gt;3 Class C Starports:&nbsp; Glendale Airport, Mesa Airport, &amp; Scottsdale<BR>&gt;Airport.<BR>&gt;Going by this it would seem that a Pop 6 world could have 1 Class A, 1<BR>&gt;Class B, &amp; several Class C Starports with no problem.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Yup.<BR><BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;However, *any* space facility, other than the principal starport, is<BR>&gt;&gt;rated as a *spaceport*, not a *starport*.<BR>&gt;I disagree.&nbsp; A Spaceport is not the same thing as a Starport.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt;Spaceport cannot build anything, but a Starport can build a Starship.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; He made it clear that he does not consider a spaceport<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the same thing as a starport.&nbsp; Note, BTW, that not all<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Starports can build Starships.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 05:17:31 +1000<BR>From: "Katharine Whitchurch" &lt;katts@globalfreeway.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>&gt; Also, consider plasces like Hong Kong and Macau. They were ports that<BR>&gt; *did* have "extrality", and in a period when travel more closely<BR>&gt; resembled Traveller.<BR><BR>And before anyone thinks of this as a good idea and implements it, think<BR>about the amount of trouble this extrality caused for relationships between<BR>the colonial powers and China.<BR><BR>Basically, the locals rightly saw it as stolen land. Also, note the fact<BR>that countries that did not regularily get beaten up and have unequal<BR>treaties forced upon them did not tend to have treaty ports.<BR><BR>The Imperium could do this, but it would be agrressivly asserting the right<BR>to intervene in planetary affairs for mere routine security and routine<BR>administrative convenience. Sure, the Imperium retains the right of<BR>extrality, and can refuse a request from a local government for the<BR>extradition of a criminal. But every time it does so, it reminds them of<BR>where the power really lies in the Third Imperium.<BR><BR>Planets may fundamentally be part of the Imperium because the IN will nuke<BR>them if they try and leave, but reminding them of this regularily is a<BR>remarkably stupid idea.<BR><BR>Ian Whitchurch<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 18:44:09 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Sublieutenant Trace Windhook<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'm digging through my old Traveller library for references on this guy.<BR>&gt; Any pointers?<BR><BR>Well, there are a couple of references to Windhook in:<BR><BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/mikado.html<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:54:28 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Name Generator 'Released'<BR><BR>Just to let everyone know, I've put a zipped Excel spreadsheet (should<BR>work OK in Excel 97 or 2000) on my wesite that generates 'modern' names.<BR><BR>Get it from:<BR><BR>http://www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/trav.html<BR><BR>click on the link on this page to download the file.<BR><BR>It's 1,156kb, so may take a while (Took about 4 minutes when I tested it<BR>on my 56.6K modem...), but it will generate 20 Male and 20 Female names<BR>at a time (just press F9 to generate another set), based on the 1990 US<BR>Census data. Every combination has an equal chance of appearing, so<BR>there aren't lot's of 'John Smith's, and the names produce are equally<BR>useful for games such as Traveller (Solomani...) and Shadowrun.<BR><BR>Comments welcome.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:26:36 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:23 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR><BR>&gt; From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Another point, if a Starport in the 3I is what an airport<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; is today, then<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; why don't planets have more starports?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Because the average planetary population is about the same as that of<BR>a<BR>&gt; &gt;small city in our terms... how many small cities do you know with<BR>more<BR>&gt; &gt;than one International Airport.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Matt, the average planetary population is at around population 7,<BR>or 10<BR>&gt; million to 90 million.&nbsp; If 10 million people make up a small city to<BR>you,<BR><BR>No, but 100-900,000 is. Remember Pop is 2D *-2*, so 5 is the average...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 17:27:06 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: capitals (was maps)<BR><BR>Speaking of maps, does anyone know all of the sector and subsector capitals<BR>of the Imperium? (My Trav. stuff is not with me)<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Craig Berry" &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 3:16 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:00:02 PST<BR>&gt; &gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; At 11:00 +0000 17/10/00, Nyrath the nearly wise &lt;nyrath@clark.net<BR>wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The main map can actually be used as an "orrey", to show<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the position of the planets at various times in the past<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or the future.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; And I recommend that until we get computer support for such, GMs should<BR>&gt; &gt; consider creating such maps for each star system the players visit<BR>&gt; &gt; often.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This makes nice color, but it's a lot of work.&nbsp; Having a few template<BR>&gt; systems and recording T0 positions might be more practical.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Noticeably elliptical orbits will require a bit of work with a<BR>&gt; &gt; calculator to get right (the "day" marks will be close together near<BR>&gt; &gt; the star and much farther apart away from it).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, the reverse is true.&nbsp; Near the star, the planet is moving<BR>&gt; faster, and thus covers more space per day.&nbsp; Far from the star, the planet<BR>&gt; moves slower, and covers less space per day.&nbsp; I once read a fascinating<BR>&gt; article about comets, which made the point that a long-period comet spends<BR>&gt; essentially all of its time effectively at maximum distance from the sun,<BR>&gt; for precisely this reason.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Outreach (cool map, bland game)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; If nothing else, it's useful for "grand strategic" level mapping for<BR>&gt; &gt; *big* traveller campaigns. At ~1200 ly (~400 parsecs) to the hex,<BR>&gt; &gt; "known space" fits comfortably into one hex.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That was my problem with the map (and game concept), actually.&nbsp; Trying to<BR>&gt; sum up millions of star systems in a single hex's "terrain type" pushed<BR>&gt; well past my personal limit of acceptable abstraction.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>&gt;&nbsp; --*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:39:31 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;However, *any* space facility, other than the principal starport, is<BR>&gt; &gt;rated as a *spaceport*, not a *starport*.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I disagree.&nbsp; A Spaceport is not the same thing as a Starport.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt; Spaceport cannot build anything, but a Starport can build a Starship.<BR><BR>A type *A* Starport can build starships (or rather, a system with a type<BR>A starport has the facilities to build starships during peacetime [see<BR>TCS])<BR><BR>The term 'spaceport' is used to distinguish all other facilities in the<BR>system from the principal 'starport' *even if they would otherwise be<BR>big enough to be a starport*<BR><BR>If you have two potentially type A starports in the system *one* of them<BR>is classified the 'starport', the other is a massive spaceport.<BR><BR>Don't get hung up about whether a particular facility can *build* a<BR>starship. They will be built in factories in the system, not necessarily<BR>on the landing field itself. Does Boeing build 747's at JFK? Heathrow?<BR>LA-X? No.<BR><BR>Is the Shuttle *built* at Canaveral/Kennedy. No. The boosters and<BR>external tank are attached to a pre-built shuttle there, but nothing is<BR>actually *built* on site.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:41:43<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>At 04:46 PM 10/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;ALL IN FAVOR?<BR><BR>Aye.&nbsp; I was laughing so hard Kirsten thought I was seizing.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:46:34<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>At 11:58 PM 10/16/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;And what is (IMO) the finest duelling scene in movie history (beating out <BR>&gt;Basil vs Errol in Robin Hood and Basil vs Danny in the Court Jester by a <BR>&gt;small margin) . . .<BR><BR>Which one in the Princess Bride?&nbsp; Inigo v. Wesley atop the Cliffs of<BR>Madness?&nbsp; Or Inigo v. The Six-Fingered Man in the Castle.&nbsp; My vote goes for<BR>the latter.<BR><BR>Roger Delgado v. Jon Pertwee in Doctor Who: The Sea Devils, was a lot of<BR>fun as well.&nbsp; You could tell that both actors were having a great time.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 16:54:19<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR><BR>At 11:45 PM 10/16/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;It's one of the few classics from the Golden Age of 2-D movies to survive<BR>&gt;the Long Night. <BR><BR>Along with "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", which led to a very strange<BR>planet in my T4 game...<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; )+(&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"Well, thanks to the Internet, I'm now bored with sex."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - Fry, Futurama<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:41:41 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR><BR>&gt; From: Jeff Zeitlin <BR>&gt; TTBOMR, in all versions of Traveller published to date - I don't know if<BR>&gt; the concept exists in GURPS, nor how it works if it does - the rules<BR>&gt; state that if you have the actual skill (e.g., if you have Air Raft skill<BR>&gt; in the example above), it is that which governs, rather than being able<BR>&gt; to use the related skill (e.g., Grav Vehicle) - even if using the related<BR>&gt; skill would result in a higher level, and thus a better chance at<BR>&gt; succeeding.<BR><BR>Talking about CT here:<BR>Well, in this specific case, I've assimilated Air/Raft skill to Grav<BR>Vehicle skill, so the two are identical.&nbsp; I've done similar things with the<BR>weapons skills - a lot of the earlier skills have become Combat Rifleman,<BR>etc.&nbsp; (I'm not really concerned with differences between military and<BR>civilian weapons as far as use by PCs go.)<BR><BR>A trickier case would be Vacc Suit and Battle Dress, where the two skills<BR>really aren't quite the same.<BR><BR>CT, unlike most of the other, shorter lived, versions, suffers from having<BR>incrementally grown, with new bits that don't necessarily match with what<BR>was there before.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:40:40 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Legate Legion" <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Correct.&nbsp; Of course if the Count Imanoble is an Imperial Noble &amp; you<BR>&gt; go out &amp; hire a Division of Mercs to take him out, what are the chances<BR>&gt; that the 3I will not have a Big Happy Fun Ball (Tigeress) in orbit of<BR>&gt; Count Imanoble's World to protect him?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Even if Count Imanoble is a Drug Drug Smuggler, &amp; at the same time a<BR>&gt; Imperial Noble, you most likely will have the face the full might of the<BR>&gt; 3I to take him down &amp; you will lose &amp; lose big.<BR><BR>Well, there are two options here:<BR><BR>The boring one:&nbsp; he's not actually a Count, but a Marquis or someone<BR>similar.&nbsp; That is, he's just another planetary ruler or petty official that<BR>has to take his own chances.<BR><BR>The interesting one:&nbsp; for some obscure reason the Navy doesn't have an HFB<BR>available at this time.&nbsp; Indeed, one might get the impression that the<BR>subsector Duke doesn't particularly like Count Imanoble...&nbsp; Perhaps there<BR>is some reason why the Count is hanging out in a fortress!&nbsp; But of course<BR>this is all most improbable - the nobility are, as we know, one big happy<BR>family that stick together, and never, never engage in violent feuds. <BR><BR>(But whose payroll are the PCs on?)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:22:30 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: LEGO<BR><BR>In a message dated 17-Oct-00 12:14:04 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 10:13:35 -0700<BR>&gt;&nbsp; From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Re: Traveller movie studio?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;My most favorite Traveller film of all time is the one I haven't made yet <BR>:)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;I have a full movie studio between equipment I own (camera and editing) <BR>and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;equipment I have access to at work (sound and lighting, in addition to <BR>more<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;editing equipment and another camera).<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Hmm, item #1349, $180 US, "LEGO Studios Steven Spielberg MovieMaker Set".<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Includes low-end (c'mon, how much resolution do you need for a LEGO brick?)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; consumer digicam with built-in microphone, full-motion video (30 fps) and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; digital still modes, and all necessary software. `Tis a shame that there's<BR>&gt;&nbsp; no option for a zoom lens, though...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; And if you think I'm kidding, see:&nbsp; www.LEGO.com/Studios<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, now you know what to get Steve Jackson for X-Mas?<BR><BR>I suspect he already has three . . .<BR><BR>:&nbsp; )<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:18:04 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Alan Bradley [mailto:alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au]<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 18 October 2000 11:41<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; From: "Legate Legion" <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Correct.&nbsp; Of course if the Count Imanoble is an <BR>&gt; Imperial Noble &amp; you<BR>&gt; &gt; go out &amp; hire a Division of Mercs to take him out, what are <BR>&gt; the chances<BR>&gt; &gt; that the 3I will not have a Big Happy Fun Ball (Tigeress) <BR>&gt; in orbit of<BR>&gt; &gt; Count Imanoble's World to protect him?<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Even if Count Imanoble is a Drug Drug Smuggler, &amp; at <BR>&gt; the same time a<BR>&gt; &gt; Imperial Noble, you most likely will have the face the full <BR>&gt; might of the<BR>&gt; &gt; 3I to take him down &amp; you will lose &amp; lose big.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, there are two options here:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The boring one:&nbsp; he's not actually a Count, but a Marquis or someone<BR>&gt; similar.&nbsp; That is, he's just another planetary ruler or petty <BR>&gt; official that<BR>&gt; has to take his own chances.<BR><BR>I thought that Marquis was still imperial nobility?<BR><BR>In fact, I thought all noble ranks were imperial nobles! I lack<BR>understanding... why would the situation be different for a Marquis or a<BR>Baron?&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:28:35 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Kills<BR><BR>In a message dated 17-Oct-00 3:21:41 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; BRUCE!!!! You too, I think that makes four (4) keyboards for Loren on that<BR>&gt;&nbsp; one post.....Damn near an *ace* on one outing.<BR><BR>I should have a couple of kills already . . . I seem to recall something <BR>about using "sexually transmitted" and "fleshing eating bacteria" in the same <BR>sentence . . .<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:30:16 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>&gt; Altogether now...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; "Get it?"<BR><BR>Got it!<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:36:06 -0500<BR>From: Eris Reddoch &lt;eris@pcola.gulf.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>Megan Robertson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;E5F33EAB0BD5D31196DA009027E03E5527550A@crater.odetics.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings gang, especially Rodney.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Have a look at http://rpgauk.com/ - this may give some<BR>&gt; possible groups to get in touch with (general gamers rather<BR>&gt; than pure TRAVELLER...). The site webmaster, Ratty, lives<BR>&gt; in Reading, by the way :-)<BR><BR>I've been trying to keep a roster of "Traveller", TMLer's anyway, on my<BR>website for this very purpose.&nbsp; Go to http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>and take the link to the Traveller Mailing List Roster. The info is in<BR>text and comma delimited format for easy input into a spreadsheet. <BR>There are quite a few UK entries, but nothing specifically for Reading.<BR><BR>If anyone wants to be added, or updated, drop me a line.<BR><BR>Eris<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:31:39 -0400<BR>From: "Delos" &lt;delos@superior.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR><BR>&gt; TTBOMR, in all versions of Traveller published to date - I don't know if<BR>&gt; the concept exists in GURPS, nor how it works if it does - the rules state<BR>&gt; that if you have the actual skill (e.g., if you have Air Raft skill in the<BR>&gt; example above), it is that which governs, rather than being able to use<BR>the<BR>&gt; related skill (e.g., Grav Vehicle) - even if using the related skill would<BR>&gt; result in a higher level, and thus a better chance at succeeding.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This does not make sense to me. If I can figure out how to use something<BR>&gt; based on my knowledge of something else, gaining knowledge specific to<BR>what<BR>&gt; I was previously figuring out should not make me effectively _less_<BR>skilled<BR>&gt; than _not_ gaining that specific knowledge.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Does anyone have a _sensible_ way of handling this?<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Jeff Zeitlin<BR>&gt; jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>I looked at it this way: In rpgs, it's easy to ignore how interrelated our<BR>skills are, yet they are very interdependent. Obviously, if you have spent<BR>three terms landing ships on planets then landing an air raft might be<BR>awkward but not too hard in decent conditions.<BR><BR>So I chose to set-up a number of general skills for each player to choose<BR>from, although I consider them closer to aptitudes in actual use. One, for<BR>example, is piloting which covers air, space, land and water piloting.&nbsp; This<BR>doesn't carry the information one acquires from (say) three terms of<BR>piloting starships, but it does give you the knack for doing it. This knack<BR>carries a greater bonus than any specialized skill gives...but to do<BR>anything more than do semi-crash landings with space ships, then you might<BR>want to take 'star pilot' as a specialized skill to augment your piloting<BR>knack.<BR><BR>It also tends to make it beneficial for each player to specialize in his<BR>areas more often than not. The trick to this is deciding what the 'general<BR>groups' should be for your particular setting.<BR><BR>Hope that helps.<BR><BR>Delos<BR>================================================<BR>"Everyone has talent. What is rare is the courage to follow the talent to<BR>the dark place where it leads."<BR>- -Erica Jong<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3174<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yg03.mx.aol.com (rly-yg03.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.3]) by air-yg04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:46:27 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yg03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:46:05 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id VAA67764;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:45:16 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:43:44 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id VAA67677<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:43:44 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:43:44 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010180143.VAA67677@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3174<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3175</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3175<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Kills<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>How many starports? (was Re: Starport administration)<BR>Cargo as a Revenue<BR>Re: Kills<BR>Re: Kills<BR>Re: LEGO<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:57:26 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Kills<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;GDWGAMES@aol.com&gt;<BR>&gt; I should have a couple of kills already . . . I seem to recall something<BR>&gt; about using "sexually transmitted" and "fleshing eating bacteria" in the<BR>same<BR>&gt; sentence . . .<BR><BR>Speaking of which, I think there has been a bit a pettootie smooching going<BR>on today. I didn't think the FAQ was *that* funny. Might have been if it<BR>wasn't so true :-/<BR><BR>- -Crusty<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:58:15 -0400<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>Move the thing! And that other thing!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:30:52 -0400<BR>From: Joseph J Alberti Jr &lt;albertijjr@juno.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>Dom,<BR><BR>Your points are well thought out with some good background information to<BR>back it up.&nbsp; I do not own any M0 material, so I was not aware of the<BR>Warrant of Restoration.<BR><BR>When I think of Dulinor's motivations in contrast to those of Lucan's we<BR>certainly have a vivid contrast or so it would seem.&nbsp; I think of Dulinor<BR>as an idealist in much the same way S Plutarch described Brutus.&nbsp; Brutus<BR>participated in the assaination of Julius Caesar out of his idealism, not<BR>in any hatred or jealousy of him.&nbsp; Dulinor's idealism and committment to<BR>what he saw as a better future as the driver for his actions.&nbsp; The<BR>tragedy of Dulinor, as for Brutus is that his idealism lead to a bloody<BR>civil war costing many lives.&nbsp; Unfortunately for the 3I, there is no<BR>Augustus to save the Imperium.<BR><BR>I see Lucan as a mixture of Caligula, Domitian, and Elagabalus.&nbsp; I<BR>believe it was Suetonius ( not the best source) who mentions that<BR>Caligula smothered Emperor Tiberius as he was in his death bed and<BR>Domitian may have&nbsp; poisoned his brother Titus to attain the throne.&nbsp; I do<BR>see Lucan modeled after these men.&nbsp; Lucan's motivation just seems to have<BR>the power of being Emperor and anything done to secure that was correct. <BR>The ends justifies the means philosophy brought about the Black War and<BR>the destruction of the Imperium.<BR><BR>If Margaret, Brzk, or Varian were confirmed by the Moot, they would have<BR>gained sufficient support from the regions of the Imperium to crush<BR>Dulinor.<BR><BR>Also, if Strephon returned quickly to Capital, rather than going to<BR>Usdiki, he problably could have prevented Lucan from gaining a power<BR>base.<BR><BR>Joe Alberti<BR>"Long Live Emperor Dulinor!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:40:00 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 11:45 PM 10/16/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;It's one of the few classics from the Golden Age of 2-D movies to survive<BR>&gt; &gt;the Long Night.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Along with "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", which led to a very strange<BR>&gt; planet in my T4 game...<BR><BR>BTW, what _is_ the Tech Level of the planet Transsexual, in the galaxy<BR>of Transylvania?&nbsp; TL 19+?&nbsp; I should think that it exceeds Imperial tech,<BR>given both the technology to teleport an entire mansion from one galaxy<BR>to another and the ability to build a handheld laser capable of shooting<BR>a beam of pure antimatter....<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:04:43 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Well, Emperor Strephon seems to have enjoyed _The Princess Bride_ enough<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to have quoted it in his journals....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's one of the few classics from the Golden Age of 2-D movies to survive the<BR>&gt; Long Night.<BR><BR>All right.&nbsp; Based on Emperor Strephon's quote from _The Princess Bride_<BR>(and confirmed by LKW), we know that _The Princess Bride_ survived the<BR>Long Night.&nbsp; Further, based on LKW's remarks, few other 2-D movies<BR>survived the turmoil.<BR><BR>So, what other 2-D movies survived?<BR><BR>I suggest that each of us who care about this topic submit a list of<BR>movies (ten or fewer per TMLer, please) that _should_ survive the Long<BR>Night.&nbsp; Note that movies specifically mentioned in canon (such as _The<BR>Princess Bride) need not be listed, as canon has already demonstrated<BR>their survival.&nbsp; All movies listed can be assumed to have survived. <BR>However, movies listed by multiple TMLers are more likely to be<BR>recognized by average Imperial citizens (roll 10+ on 2D for a given<BR>Imperial citizen to recognize a listed movie reference; DM + number of<BR>TMLers who list that movie; roll 4+ to recognize movies mentioned in<BR>canon).<BR><BR>This mechanism should keep the number of movies that survived the fall<BR>of the Ramshackle Empire down to a reasonable level, for purposes of<BR>explicit references.<BR><BR>My list will follow shortly.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:06:53 EDT<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: How many starports? (was Re: Starport administration)<BR><BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt;- ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt;From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;However, *any* space facility, other than the principal starport, is<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;rated as a *spaceport*, not a *starport*.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I disagree.&nbsp; A Spaceport is not the same thing as a Starport.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt;&gt; Spaceport cannot build anything, but a Starport can build a Starship.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;A type *A* Starport can build starships (or rather, a system with a type<BR>&gt;A starport has the facilities to build starships during peacetime [see<BR>&gt;TCS])<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The term 'spaceport' is used to distinguish all other facilities in the<BR>&gt;system from the principal 'starport' *even if they would otherwise be<BR>&gt;big enough to be a starport*<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If you have two potentially type A starports in the system *one* of them<BR>&gt;is classified the 'starport', the other is a massive spaceport.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Not in my opinion. Every star system is rated monolithically by the UWP <BR>system, based on the best that system has to offer. Each world in that system <BR>is treated the same way if you do the extended work. This does not mean, <BR>however, that "best" is a title held by only one facility.<BR>Depending on a given world's desire and ability (and the Imperium's desire <BR>and/or ability) its "best" may be three seperate and distinct orbitals, or <BR>any one of a number of asteroids. It's well established in print that many <BR>worlds have Highports and Downports, and that both are considered "the <BR>starport".<BR><BR>On the other hand, you WILL find many worlds that don't wish to be quite so <BR>cosmopolitan for one reason or another. These will limit their <BR>"international" facilities (ie. the "Star"port) to one location in system, <BR>and all outsystem traffic had better land there and nowhere else. Zila and <BR>Pysadi (both Spinward Marches) are both good examples here (as seen in The <BR>Traveller Adventure).<BR><BR>On the gripping hand, you WILL typically have one and only one traffic <BR>control facility that oversees the system as a whole, though they will talk <BR>to a great many local traffic controls that oversee individual ports, moons, <BR>etc. depending on the development level of the system. This Central Traffic <BR>Control will likely be close to the center of the Imperial Port Authority, <BR>and be directly under the Portmaster's command.<BR>At some conceptual level, this is your one-and-only starport in the system. <BR>In some systems, however, this "port" won't have any general landing space <BR>nearby. It will be either strictly a C&amp;C facility, or could have "Official <BR>Use Only" pads for rescue, diplomatic, or administrivial purposes. It's <BR>current conceptual equivalent is the Harbormaster's Office of a modern <BR>seaport. You park a fireboat, a runabout and maybe a tug or two here, but <BR>it's typically isolated a little from the main hubbub of the port so it can <BR>react to conflicts and accidents instead of being inside the primary blast <BR>radius...<BR><BR>My point with all of the above? Every system is (or can be) different. <BR>Describing the port itself is one of my pleasures whenever the group visits a <BR>new world, since in some cases it will be ALL of the world they see.<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:42:29 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Cargo as a Revenue<BR><BR>This'll mark me as the ultimate newbie, but I don't understand the rules <BR>about shipping cargo as a revenue as described on pages 8-9 in Book 2. I can <BR>understand the speculative trade rules fairly well, but I don't understand <BR>this.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:57:17 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Kills<BR><BR>To tell the truth, normally I would have chuckled and breezed right through<BR>it. When I saw that it was a message from Loren and I spotted *FAQ*, which I<BR>have a folder dedicated to, I went to the alter just like a young virgin. I<BR>had read the first four entries before the *light turned on* and had hit the<BR>fifth line when my brain's little "you've been had!" banner scrolled by in<BR>my minds eye.<BR><BR>I am not completely above a little brown nosing if it's for the proper<BR>results, money, cars, women, etc.Then again, it coulda' been the drugs......<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "SwordWorlder" &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 9:57 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Kills<BR><BR><BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: &lt;GDWGAMES@aol.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I should have a couple of kills already . . . I seem to recall something<BR>&gt; &gt; about using "sexually transmitted" and "fleshing eating bacteria" in the<BR>&gt; same<BR>&gt; &gt; sentence . . .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Speaking of which, I think there has been a bit a pettootie smooching<BR>going<BR>&gt; on today. I didn't think the FAQ was *that* funny. Might have been if it<BR>&gt; wasn't so true :-/<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -Crusty<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:05:36 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Kills<BR><BR>From: SwordWorlder &lt;SwordWorlder@nc.rr.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; I should have a couple of kills already . . . I seem to recall something<BR>&gt;&gt; about using "sexually transmitted" and "fleshing eating bacteria" in the<BR>&gt;same<BR>&gt;&gt; sentence . . .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Speaking of which, I think there has been a bit a pettootie smooching going<BR>&gt;on today. I didn't think the FAQ was *that* funny. Might have been if it<BR>&gt;wasn't so true :-/<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; That is why it was so funny, Swordie, because it was so true.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:06:26 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: LEGO<BR><BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com &lt;GDWGAMES@aol.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;I suspect he already has three . . .<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, could always get what I got my boss for X-Mass last year.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:07:04 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>From: Smart, David J (David) &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;ALL IN FAVOR?<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Agreed.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:11:43 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; That depends on what you mean by "average."&nbsp; On 2D-2 the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; arithmatic mean (perhaps the most common mathematical<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; meaning of "average") Pop is 5, or 500,000 sophonts<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (assuming a symetrical distribution of Pop multipliers).&nbsp; If you<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; calculate the arithmatic mean number of sophonts, it comes<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to 5,050,505,050.&nbsp; If, on the other hand, you are thinking about<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the "usual" or "typical" population, the mode (the most<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; commonly occuring Pop) is 5 (100,000-900,000).&nbsp; You might<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; consider the median (the point at which half the Pop's are<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; lower and half higher), which is 5 (500,000).&nbsp; I think that Matt<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; was talking about cities of 100,000-900,000.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Which would be what Phoenix is made up of.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;If 10 million people make up a small city to you,<BR>&gt;&gt;then Phoenix with its population of 3 million must be a village.<BR>&gt;&gt;Now, Phoenix, at a population of 3 million has (in Traveller Terms):<BR>&gt;&gt;1 Class A Starport:&nbsp; Skyharbor.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Wow!&nbsp; They are building starships in Phoenix?!&nbsp; Those<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; guys have all the fun.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; No, but we do build transatlantic aircraft here &amp; in Traveller Terms<BR>that is a Starship.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;1 Naval Base:&nbsp; Luke Airforce Base.<BR>&gt;&gt;1 Class B Starport:&nbsp; Deervalley Airport.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cool!&nbsp; They build interplanetary ships and do annual<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; maintenance on starsips at this airport.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; They do build small aircraft out there, so yes, they basicly in<BR>Traveller Terms have a Class B Starport.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;3 Class C Starports:&nbsp; Glendale Airport, Mesa Airport, &amp; Scottsdale<BR>&gt;&gt;Airport.<BR>&gt;&gt;Going by this it would seem that a Pop 6 world could have 1 Class A, 1<BR>&gt;&gt;Class B, &amp; several Class C Starports with no problem.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Yup.<BR><BR><BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; He made it clear that he does not consider a spaceport<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the same thing as a starport.&nbsp; Note, BTW, that not all<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Starports can build Starships.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I know that, but a Spaceport cannot build even system ships.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:12:47 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Matthew Bond &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;No, but 100-900,000 is. Remember Pop is 2D *-2*, so 5 is the average...<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, I did mine by crunching the numbers from the Spinward Marches, but<BR>then again you do it your way, I'll do it mine.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:19:28 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>From: Alan Bradley &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt; From: "Legate Legion"<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Correct.&nbsp; Of course if the Count Imanoble is an Imperial Noble &amp; you<BR>&gt;&gt; go out &amp; hire a Division of Mercs to take him out, what are the chances<BR>&gt;&gt; that the 3I will not have a Big Happy Fun Ball (Tigeress) in orbit of<BR>&gt;&gt; Count Imanoble's World to protect him?<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Even if Count Imanoble is a Drug Drug Smuggler, &amp; at the same time a<BR>&gt;&gt; Imperial Noble, you most likely will have the face the full might of the<BR>&gt;&gt; 3I to take him down &amp; you will lose &amp; lose big.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, there are two options here:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;The boring one:&nbsp; he's not actually a Count, but a Marquis or someone<BR>&gt;similar.&nbsp; That is, he's just another planetary ruler or petty official that<BR>&gt;has to take his own chances.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, but if the players raise a Division of TL13 troops, then they might<BR>think about starting their own little empire &amp; kick out the 3I.&nbsp; The 3I<BR>cannot have that, can they?<BR><BR>&gt;The interesting one:&nbsp; for some obscure reason the Navy doesn't have an HFB<BR>&gt;available at this time.&nbsp; Indeed, one might get the impression that the<BR>&gt;subsector Duke doesn't particularly like Count Imanoble...&nbsp; Perhaps there<BR>&gt;is some reason why the Count is hanging out in a fortress!&nbsp; But of course<BR>&gt;this is all most improbable - the nobility are, as we know, one big happy<BR>&gt;family that stick together, and never, never engage in violent feuds.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, do you mean a BHFB/Tigress or the HFB/Broadsword?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Then any other major warship could be used.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Anyway, I don't think the 3I likes the idea of a full division of troops<BR>not under their control.&nbsp; I can see Count Imanoble's troops at at least<BR>TL13, so your division will have to be at least equal to TL13 to be able to<BR>fight them &amp; win.&nbsp; And, I cannot see the 3I letting a division of TL13 run<BR>around, as they could take over a small world &amp; destablize the 3I.<BR><BR>&gt;(But whose payroll are the PCs on?)<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Alan, when I ran it, they were trying to get rid of Count Imanoble.<BR>Btw, my players never figured out what his last name was.&nbsp; *weg*<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; As for the payroll, well lets say some really nice guy in a turban hired<BR>them.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:28:06 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;So, what other 2-D movies survived?<BR><BR>1. Silent Running.<BR>2. Dark Star.<BR>3. The Shape of Things to Come.<BR>4. The Longest Day.<BR>5. M*A*S*H.<BR>6. The Crow.<BR>7. The Rocky Horror Picture Show.<BR>8. Star Trek:&nbsp; First Contact.<BR>9. Star Wars.<BR>10. Army of Darkness.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:04:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; From: Legate Legion [mailto:legate@futureone.com]<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Another point, if a Starport in the 3I is what an airport<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; is today, then<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; why don't planets have more starports?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Because the average planetary population is about the same as that of a<BR>&gt;&gt;small city in our terms... how many small cities do you know with more<BR>&gt;&gt;than one International Airport.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Matt, the average planetary population is at around population 7, or 10<BR>&gt; million to 90 million.&nbsp; If 10 million people make up a small city to you,<BR>&gt; then Phoenix with its population of 3 million must be a village.<BR><BR>The *average* (known in statistics as the "mean" ) is the wrong figure.<BR>What you need to look at is the *median*. That's the value where there<BR>are as many planets with a population *above* the median as *below* the<BR>median.<BR><BR>And a quick glance at *any* of the world generation tables shows that<BR>the *median* is Pop 5. <BR><BR>There's also another type of "average" that would be appropropriate.<BR>That's the "mode". The mode is the most common value from a data set.<BR>The mode for population is *also* Pop 5. <BR><BR>These distinctions are important, because data sets can often have all<BR>three different.<BR><BR>For example, the mode can be at one *end* of the data.&nbsp; That is,<BR>instead of the usual curve with a hump in the middle, it looks like one<BR>half of of the hump. For example, consider a plot of the number of<BR>people born on a certain date against time. It starts out with near<BR>100%, and drops from there.<BR><BR>Or there can be more than one mode (ie the curve has two or more<BR>peaks). For a curve like that, the mode might be 2 and 4, with both the<BR>mean and median at 3. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; *&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; *<BR>&nbsp; *&nbsp; *&nbsp; *&nbsp; *&nbsp; * <BR>0 1&nbsp; 2&nbsp; 3&nbsp; 4&nbsp; 5 6<BR><BR>See, we have 0 items with a value of 0, 1 with a value of 1, 2 with<BR>a value of 2, 1 with a value of 3, 2 with a value of 4, 1 with a value<BR>of 5, 0 with a value 6.<BR><BR>So the mean is (1+2+2+3+4+4+5)/7 = 3.<BR>The mode is 2 &amp; 4.<BR>The median is 3.<BR><BR><BR>For population of planets, we get a graph like this:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * * *<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * * * * *<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; * * * * * * *<BR>&nbsp; * * * * * * * * *<BR>* * * * * * * * * * *<BR>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A<BR><BR>So out of 36 planets we have:<BR><BR>Pop&nbsp;&nbsp; number of&nbsp; total population of<BR>code&nbsp; planets&nbsp; &nbsp; planets with code<BR>- ----&nbsp; ---------&nbsp; &nbsp; -------------------<BR>0&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0<BR>1&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 20<BR>2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 300<BR>3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4,000<BR>4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 50,000<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 600,000<BR>6&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5,000,000<BR>7&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 40,000,000<BR>8&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 300,000,000<BR>9&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2,000,000,000<BR>A&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10,000,000,000<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ----------------<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 12,345,654,320&nbsp; toal population<BR><BR>So, the mode and median are both 5. That's 100,000.<BR><BR>The mean is 342,934,842.2... <BR><BR>Yet only *three* planets have a population over 100 million.<BR><BR>See why the mean (average) is not always the right kind "average" to<BR>use. <BR><BR>For this discussion, the *mean* population is pretty useless. But the<BR>mode and median are useful.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Now, Phoenix, at a population of 3 million has (in Traveller Terms):<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Class A Starport:&nbsp; Skyharbor.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Naval Base:&nbsp; Luke Airforce Base.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 1 Class B Starport:&nbsp; Deervalley Airport.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 3 Class C Starports:&nbsp; Glendale Airport, Mesa Airport, &amp; Scottsdale<BR>&gt; Airport.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Going by this it would seem that a Pop 6 world could have 1 Class A, 1<BR>&gt; Class B, &amp; several Class C Starports with no problem.<BR><BR>Except that Pop 6 is noticeably *above* the median population.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:41:03 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;&gt; Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>&gt;&gt; Also, consider plasces like Hong Kong and Macau. They were ports that<BR>&gt;&gt; *did* have "extrality", and in a period when travel more closely<BR>&gt;&gt; resembled Traveller.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And before anyone thinks of this as a good idea and implements it, think<BR>&gt; about the amount of trouble this extrality caused for relationships between<BR>&gt; the colonial powers and China.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Basically, the locals rightly saw it as stolen land. Also, note the fact<BR>&gt; that countries that did not regularily get beaten up and have unequal<BR>&gt; treaties forced upon them did not tend to have treaty ports.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The Imperium could do this, but it would be agrressivly asserting the right<BR>&gt; to intervene in planetary affairs for mere routine security and routine<BR>&gt; administrative convenience. Sure, the Imperium retains the right of<BR>&gt; extrality, and can refuse a request from a local government for the<BR>&gt; extradition of a criminal. But every time it does so, it reminds them of<BR>&gt; where the power really lies in the Third Imperium.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Planets may fundamentally be part of the Imperium because the IN will nuke<BR>&gt; them if they try and leave, but reminding them of this regularily is a<BR>&gt; remarkably stupid idea.<BR><BR>Maybe. But also consider the various "free cities" and "free ports"<BR>(say Danzig).<BR><BR>When they got grabbed, it was usually because the surrounding country<BR>or a nearby country decided they wanted all that trade themselves. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 20:45:04 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Hey, Bruce! Is there a good 2-d "map" of the local group of galaxies?<BR>&gt;&gt; How about the cluster/supercluster they belong to?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; It'd be fun to have a serries of maps scaling from the "hubble limit"<BR>&gt;&gt; down to regular sector/subsector maps.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; On a related note, does anyone have any suggestions on obtaining a good 2-D<BR>&gt; or even 3-D map of about a 100LY radius of Earth, more would be good.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; need to be able to identify specific stars on the map.&nbsp; It would really help<BR>&gt; if it's a public domain map, or at least something currently in print that I<BR>&gt; can refer to in order to make my own map.<BR><BR>2D will be *terribly* cluttered.<BR><BR>And 2D or 3d, it'll be *way* too inaccurate beyond maybe 40-50 LY.<BR>Remember that most stars are red dwarfs. They can't be *seen* at those<BR>distances. <BR><BR>But there are several databases available on the web. I don't remember<BR>which ones are out there, but someone on the list can refer you to them.<BR><BR>&gt; I've got the following stars that I need to identify on the map (some of<BR>&gt; which may be fictional).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Earth<BR><BR>Earth is a planet. *Sol* is the star. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; Procyon<BR>&gt; Algol<BR>&gt; Arcturus<BR>&gt; Regulus<BR>&gt; Deneb<BR>&gt; Rigel<BR><BR>real<BR><BR>&gt; Antares<BR><BR>real, but probably outside your 100 light year limit. Same is likely to<BR>go for many of the others.<BR><BR>&gt; Achernar<BR>&gt; Markeb<BR>&gt; Mirach<BR><BR>I think these are real, but I'm not positive. I'm also not certain<BR>about the spellings.<BR><BR>&gt; Betelgeuze<BR><BR>Betelguese or Betelgeuse. It's spelled just like the silly movie...<BR>And it's another that's likely a long ways from Sol.<BR><BR>&gt; Ensis<BR>&gt; Unukalhai<BR>&gt; Algenubi<BR>&gt; Alhena<BR>&gt; Dorsum<BR><BR>These don't ring any bells. Also, Astronomers rarely use the sort of<BR>names you have listed. They tend to use constellation based names<BR>(Alpha Centauri, Zeta Reticuli, 57 Bootes, etc) or catalog numbers (ie<BR>the number the star was assigned in some catalog of stars &amp; positions).<BR><BR>You have to keep in mind that there are *two* kinds of stars that have<BR>"traditional" names such as you list above. Stars that are very close<BR>to Earth (Sirius), and stars that are *so* bright that they are naked eye<BR>visible across *thousands* of Parsecs (as I recall Rigel and Betelguese<BR>are in this class).<BR><BR>So a *lot* of the stars with "normal" names are going to be *way*<BR>outside the 100 LY radius.<BR><BR>For stuff within 30-40 LY, the Starforce: Alpha Centauri map and the<BR>Traveller: 2300 or 2300 AD maps will do a good job. Idon't know where<BR>my 2300 stuff is, but since you are local, I might be persuaded to loan<BR>you my Starforce map.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3175<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (rly-zb05.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.5]) by air-zb02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:24:38 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb05.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:23:45 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id AAA77645;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:22:18 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:20:51 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id AAA77319<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:20:51 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:20:51 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010180420.AAA77319@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3175<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3176</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>10/17/00 11:25:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3176<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Outreach - Was: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR>Is The Digest Working OK?<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Name Generator 'Released'<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Kills<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Red October<BR>Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>Re: Name Generator 'Released'<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:05:18 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:00:02 PST<BR>&gt;&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; At 11:00 +0000 17/10/00, Nyrath the nearly wise &lt;nyrath@clark.net wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The main map can actually be used as an "orrey", to show<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the position of the planets at various times in the past<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or the future.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; And I recommend that until we get computer support for such, GMs should<BR>&gt;&gt; consider creating such maps for each star system the players visit<BR>&gt;&gt; often. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; This makes nice color, but it's a lot of work.&nbsp; Having a few template<BR>&gt; systems and recording T0 positions might be more practical.<BR><BR>Well, given that Traveller uses a lot of "standard orbits", you could<BR>use overlays or some such. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Noticeably elliptical orbits will require a bit of work with a<BR>&gt;&gt; calculator to get right (the "day" marks will be close together near<BR>&gt;&gt; the star and much farther apart away from it).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, the reverse is true.&nbsp; Near the star, the planet is moving<BR>&gt; faster, and thus covers more space per day.&nbsp; Far from the star, the planet<BR>&gt; moves slower, and covers less space per day.&nbsp; I once read a fascinating<BR>&gt; article about comets, which made the point that a long-period comet spends<BR>&gt; essentially all of its time effectively at maximum distance from the sun,<BR>&gt; for precisely this reason.<BR><BR>Doh! I knew that. I just wasn't thinking when I wrote it. :-(<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Outreach (cool map, bland game)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; If nothing else, it's useful for "grand strategic" level mapping for<BR>&gt;&gt; *big* traveller campaigns. At ~1200 ly (~400 parsecs) to the hex,<BR>&gt;&gt; "known space" fits comfortably into one hex.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That was my problem with the map (and game concept), actually.&nbsp; Trying to<BR>&gt; sum up millions of star systems in a single hex's "terrain type" pushed<BR>&gt; well past my personal limit of acceptable abstraction.<BR><BR>It's good for plotting gross "stellar density". And for giving a sense<BR>of "scale". That's about it. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:32:02 -0700<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Outreach - Was: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>Richard Persky wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hm.&nbsp; A copy of Outreach just showed up at my local used-book store.&nbsp; Is<BR>&gt; it worth $8?<BR><BR>Yes.&nbsp; At least $8.&nbsp; It is fun to play.&nbsp; Just don't draw the "Infinity<BR>Chip."<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:34:11 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 14:08:12 -0700<BR>&gt;From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; You know, if we were really sick people we could all take this the<BR>wrong<BR>&gt;way.<BR><BR><BR>Well Mr. Legion I consider myself an *incredibly* sick person and I feel<BR>absolutely no need to willfully misconstrue the meaning of the sentence<BR>in question.<BR><BR>David Shayne<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:43:15 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:00:02 PST<BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Subject:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; At 11:00 +0000 17/10/00, Nyrath the nearly wise &lt;nyrath@clark.net wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Battlefleet Mars is a classic.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The main map can actually be used as an "orrey", to show<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the position of the planets at various times in the past<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; or the future.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And I recommend that until we get computer support for such, GMs should<BR>&gt;consider creating such maps for each star system the players visit<BR>&gt;often.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Noticeably elliptical orbits will require a bit of work with a<BR>&gt;calculator to get right (the "day" marks will be close together near<BR>&gt;the star and much farther apart away from it). Even so, it may be worth<BR>&gt;it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Outreach (cool map, bland game)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;If nothing else, it's useful for "grand strategic" level mapping for<BR>&gt;*big* traveller campaigns. At ~1200 ly (~400 parsecs) to the hex,<BR>&gt;"known space" fits comfortably into one hex.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And I suspect that having a "copy" of the map mounted on the wall, with<BR>&gt;"known space" and the Zhodani core expeditions marked, will impress the<BR>&gt;players. Especially if you let them know where the Magellanic Clouds<BR>&gt;and Andromeda are in relation to the map... (IIRC, they'll be in the<BR>&gt;next room or maybe the next house)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;For "extra credit" have the Outreach map pinned up at one end of the<BR>&gt;wall, and use some pins and thread to go from the "known space" hex to<BR>&gt;a known space map on the scale of the old GDW map (ie to indicate that<BR>&gt;the "GDW map is an "exploded view" of the hex). Then do the same for<BR>&gt;sectors from the GDW map. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hey, Bruce! Is there a good 2-d "map" of the local group of galaxies?<BR>&gt;How about the cluster/supercluster they belong to?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It'd be fun to have a serries of maps scaling from the "hubble limit"<BR>&gt;down to regular sector/subsector maps.<BR><BR><BR>Aiiiiiiiii!<BR>It's the Total Perspective Vortex!<BR>Run!<BR><BR>David Shayne<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:47:34 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; And if you think I'm kidding, see:&nbsp; www.LEGO.com/Studios<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, now you know what to get Steve Jackson for X-Mas? <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hmm, Jurassic Park: The All Lego version. &lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; Actually, it seems to include a green LEGO tyrannosaur :)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:03:50 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Is The Digest Working OK?<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>I don't know if I'm blind, skimming too fast, or if this is a real problem. It<BR>seems to me as if the digest version of the TML is missing a few posts.<BR><BR>For example, which digest contains the initial post of "China-Japan-Phillipines<BR>Conflicts"?<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:19:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; on Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:00:02 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; At 11:00 +0000 17/10/00, Nyrath the nearly wise &lt;nyrath@clark.net wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Outreach (cool map, bland game)<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; If nothing else, it's useful for "grand strategic" level mapping for<BR>&gt;&gt; *big* traveller campaigns. At ~1200 ly (~400 parsecs) to the hex,<BR>&gt;&gt; "known space" fits comfortably into one hex.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hm.&nbsp; A copy of Outreach just showed up at my local used-book store.&nbsp; Is<BR>&gt; it worth $8?<BR><BR>I've never even *tried* to play the game. I bought mine because I<BR>wanted the hex map of the galaxy (well, 2/3rds of it anyway).<BR><BR>If you want the map, go for it. If nothing else, you can bag the<BR>counters and use the box/tray for storing pieces for Mayday or the<BR>like. I bought a couple of empty SPI box/trays back in the mid-70s. One<BR>still has one of my copies of Mayday in it.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:26:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: MHD Drives? (was Re: Cost-effective air/rafts)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; In the book, The Hunt for Red October, Tom Clancy described a water<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; jet propulsion system. (He also -erroneously - went into<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; excruciating detail into the Soviet Alfa's high pressure water<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; reactor, when in fact the Alfa uses&nbsp; a&nbsp; liquid metal cooled<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; reactor.)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; AIIIEEEEE!!!!!!<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; They use a liquid metal cooled reactor *at sea*?!?!?!<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; That's insane!<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I'm sure they get lots of power. But a coolant leak wouldn't merey<BR>&gt;&gt; damage the sub and contaminate the reactor room. It'd be likely to<BR>&gt;&gt; *destroy* the sub.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oh yeah, it uses an alloy of Bismuth and Lead...the reactor has to maintain<BR>&gt; a temperature of at least 125 Degrees centigrade to keep the "coolant"<BR>&gt; liquid. <BR><BR>Ok, that's more sensible. The only metals I'd heard of being used were<BR>things like sodium and lithium!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:32:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 11:58 PM 10/16/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;And what is (IMO) the finest duelling scene in movie history (beating out <BR>&gt;&gt;Basil vs Errol in Robin Hood and Basil vs Danny in the Court Jester by a <BR>&gt;&gt;small margin) . . .<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Which one in the Princess Bride?&nbsp; Inigo v. Wesley atop the Cliffs of<BR>&gt; Madness?&nbsp; Or Inigo v. The Six-Fingered Man in the Castle.&nbsp; My vote goes for<BR>&gt; the latter.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Roger Delgado v. Jon Pertwee in Doctor Who: The Sea Devils, was a lot of<BR>&gt; fun as well.&nbsp; You could tell that both actors were having a great time.<BR><BR>While not *truly* a fencing scene, I have to nominate George Takei's<BR>work (on and *off* camera) during the Star Trek Episode "The Naked<BR>Time". <BR><BR>He had a *great* time. Seems he really *did* want to be D'Artanagn!<BR><BR>As I heard it the rest of the cast and crew threatened to quit if they<BR>ever got another script that put a sword in Sulu's hands...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:40:43 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generator 'Released'<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Just to let everyone know, I've put a zipped Excel spreadsheet (should<BR>&gt; work OK in Excel 97 or 2000) on my wesite that generates 'modern' names.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Get it from:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/trav.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; click on the link on this page to download the file.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's 1,156kb, so may take a while (Took about 4 minutes when I tested it<BR>&gt; on my 56.6K modem...), but it will generate 20 Male and 20 Female names<BR>&gt; at a time (just press F9 to generate another set), based on the 1990 US<BR>&gt; Census data. Every combination has an equal chance of appearing, so<BR>&gt; there aren't lot's of 'John Smith's, and the names produce are equally<BR>&gt; useful for games such as Traveller (Solomani...) and Shadowrun.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Comments welcome.<BR><BR>That's *way* too large for what it does. I bet I can create a<BR>stand-alone EXE using the same rules that'll be a *lot* smaller... <BR><BR>I only mention this because I don't have Excel anyway... :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:18:21 -0700<BR>From: "Kiri Aradia Morgan" &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>From: Legate Legion &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;So, what other 2-D movies survived?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1. Silent Running.<BR>&gt;2. Dark Star.<BR>&gt;3. The Shape of Things to Come.<BR>&gt;4. The Longest Day.<BR>&gt;5. M*A*S*H.<BR>&gt;6. The Crow.<BR>&gt;7. The Rocky Horror Picture Show.<BR><BR><BR>Fair Warning, Penguin Boy:<BR><BR>Just how many times do you think that Mitsuko (do recall she does karaoke)<BR>and Akashi have seen #7?<BR><BR>Kiri =)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:28:55 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Kills<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Loren wrote:<BR>&gt;I should have a couple of kills already . . . I seem to recall something<BR>&gt;about using "sexually transmitted" and "fleshing eating bacteria" in the same<BR>&gt;sentence . . .<BR><BR>Nah, that's just a Tagline...<BR><BR>- - Hyphen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:50:56 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Legate's ongoing discussion over starports:<BR>&gt;But, what is the dividing line between Starport &amp; Spaceport?&nbsp; What if<BR>&gt;those handful of Starports can build a free trader?&nbsp; Would they now be<BR>&gt;Starports?&nbsp; And, if so what does it do the UWP?<BR><BR>and<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Ahem. It's a spaceport unless he negotiates with the Imperium (and the planet<BR>- -<BR>&gt;&gt;unless he owns, it of course!) to make the 'port extraterritorial.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Aha, but it has everything a Class C port has.<BR><BR>Which makes it a Class F (?) spaceport.<BR><BR>From memory:<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; Starport Quality&nbsp;&nbsp; Spaceport Quality&nbsp;&nbsp; Main Criteria<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Class A&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ---&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Can build starships<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Class B&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ---&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Can build spaceships<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Class C&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Class F&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Can repair ships<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Class D&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Class G&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; No repairs, no refined fuel<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Class E&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Class H&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fuel? See that lake...?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Class X&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Class Y&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Starport? What's a starport?<BR><BR>Can someone with _Book 6: Scouts_ correct me if I'm wrong! F might equate to B<BR>and thus everything be out by one line... :-(.<BR><BR>Note that the differences up and down the table are only differences in<BR>_quality_; the thing that really distinguishes a starport from spaceport is the<BR>extrality line, and this is something that is negotiated between the Imperium<BR>and the planet.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;You mean like Tavonni? No, the Count uses his Household Troops.&nbsp; ;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Basicly he would then be using a Marine Reserve Unit?<BR><BR>No. These are his own troops - huscarles, if you like. In fact they start out as<BR>his own mercenary unit, the Ftai company consisting of Darrian Aslan. By 1201<BR>becomes the Ashsiimkir-Ftai Human/Aslan regiment.<BR><BR>And yes, it is inspired by the Tealeakhoi regiment (let's face it, in our own<BR>campaign it _is_ the Tealeakhoi, I've just changed the names to protect the, um,<BR>"innocent"). Plus the Slammers - you haven't seen the 50t tanks yet - with ship<BR>fusion guns as main weapons.<BR><BR>&gt;If you have two potentially type A starports in the system *one* of them<BR>&gt;is classified the 'starport', the other is a massive spaceport.<BR><BR>Worlds (usually only High Pop) can have more than one _starport_. Terra has<BR>three.<BR><BR>&gt;Don't get hung up about whether a particular facility can *build* a<BR>&gt;starship. They will be built in factories in the system, not necessarily<BR>&gt;on the landing field itself. Does Boeing build 747's at JFK? Heathrow?<BR>&gt;LA-X? No.<BR><BR>This is a very significant point that I hadn't considered. IMTU, I have Tavonni<BR>able to fabricate starship-rated hulls but not the actual jump drive coils.<BR>However, they can install j-drives built elsewhere (such as those imported from<BR>TL 13 Lanth). Thus I rate it as a sort-of "B+" port (but MTU's pedantic Scout<BR>administrators ignore such distinctions ;-). As well, this would only ever be<BR>done on a very small-scale due to transport costs. Importing TL 15 drives from<BR>Rhylanor (for example) is possible, but costly.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:56:40 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:04:43 -0500<BR>&gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR><BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;So, what other 2-D movies survived?<BR><BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>My choices with reasons<BR><BR>1) Seven Samurai<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Almost every Kurosawa film deserves to survive to the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3I. This title will have to stand in.<BR>2) Das Boot (5 1/2 hr directors cut)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Depth charges, sonar pings, and fart jokes. Gotta love it.<BR>3) Akira<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Seminal Anime flick.<BR>4) A Hard Day's Night<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Great camera work, likeable cast, and a nifty soundtrack.<BR>5) Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Brightly colored high fantasy with a nifty soundtrack and a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; likeable cast playing very obnoxious people.<BR>6) 200 Motels<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Frank Zappa and the Mother's of Invention turned out<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; this Rock&amp;Roll classic.<BR>7) The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The ultimate spaghetti western.<BR>8) Dark Star<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Pathetic D-movie sci-fi horror flick is among the most<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; thought provoking movies ever made.<BR>9) The Opening of Misty Bethoven<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Porno version of My Fair Lady. This skin flick is unusual<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; for having a plot worth watching (which is good because<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the sex scenes are rather dull) (Ok so this isn't quite within<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the bounds of the officially mandated PG rating for<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Traveller but I'd expect some of those old 70's sex<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; flicks to survive)<BR>10) Head.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The Monkees movie. A surreal trip written/directed by<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Jack Nicholson. Look for the Frank Zappa cameo.<BR><BR>David Shayne<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:52:57 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Altogether now...<BR>&gt;&gt;"Get it?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Got it!<BR><BR>Good!<BR><BR>- - Hyphen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:07:41 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Legate Legion &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 8:21:pm<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;From the WWF:&nbsp; The Roc answers.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I have to agree with this.&nbsp; I do understand that some worlds have<BR>&gt; &gt;private/corporate starports (Ling, et al.?) and they, to me, are a<BR>&gt; judgement<BR>&gt; &gt;call on what the GM requires.&nbsp; If the GM needs this Corp-owned world's<BR>&gt; &gt;starport to private (Wasn't that the case in one of the Traveller<BR>computer<BR>&gt; &gt;games?&nbsp; One SP was owned by a company as they owned the entire planet and<BR>&gt; &gt;certain laws didn't apply there?) with their own rules, I think that<BR>works<BR>&gt; &gt;fine.&nbsp; But on a errrr... "typical"(?) world, there should be one or more<BR>&gt; &gt;SP's that are "Imperial Property" and possibly a handful (depending upon<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt;world's Pop or industrial base?) of "local government owned and operated"<BR>&gt; &gt;Space Ports - not necessarily Star Ports.&nbsp; Perhaps, Lord Imanoble has<BR>what<BR>&gt; &gt;is classed as a Space Port if there is already an Imperial-sponsored Star<BR>&gt; &gt;Port Present?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; But, what is the dividing line between Starport &amp; Spaceport?&nbsp; What if<BR>&gt; those handful of Starports can build a free trader?&nbsp; Would they now be<BR>&gt; Starports?&nbsp; And, if so what does it do the UWP?<BR><BR>I think others have basically answered this for me already.&nbsp; Your port may<BR>have the requirements of being a Starport technically, but the title may be<BR>reserved by higher placed individuals, and I think that's where it may<BR>differ.&nbsp; Perhaps he could get away with "Class-B Starport facility<BR>Spaceport!", though that sounds really clumsy :^)<BR><BR>- -- The Roc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:53:59 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Red October<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Craig wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; Tom is not afraid to make stuff up, and tells such a good story in Hunt for<BR>&gt;&gt; Red October, I didn't care (and still don't).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And he makes stuff up in an informed, plausible, internally-consistent<BR>&gt;way, most of the time.&nbsp; And also gets a great deal dead-on accurate.<BR><BR>Just in case anyone doesn't know, Tom is a good mate of Larry Bond.<BR><BR>As in _Harpoon_.<BR><BR>Larry gathered every unclassified document he could find describing modern<BR>military hardware, compared and collated them, and wrote the _Harpoon_ rules. He<BR>and Tom then used then to play... a few wargames. Tom then went off and wrote<BR>_Red Storm Rising_ and _Hunt For Red October_.<BR><BR>THAT is why his stuff is so darn accurate. Also scary for the US military,<BR>especially the Russian paras taking out Iceland. Apocryphal story: when asked by<BR>worried staffers why he "gave away" so much strategic and tactical info, he<BR>said, "I assumed you'd already thought about such scenarios!".<BR><BR>You can see his smirk from here.<BR><BR>I've heard that the US Navy uses _Harpoon_ as the best training simulation short<BR>of modelling warfare inside Cray computers (well, that was 10 years ago, maybe<BR>it's changed).<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:54:37 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Game Mechanics: Included Skills<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Jeff asked:<BR>&gt;Does anyone have a _sensible_ way of handling this?<BR><BR>This has been a problem for many versions of Traveller. If you have<BR>Battledress-3, it is pointless having Vacc Suit-1, for instance.<BR><BR>I haven't yet worked out an equitable solution, beyond reviewing a PC's<BR>generated skills post-generation and ironing out the anomalies by GM fiat (with<BR>player input). It's more a problem if you use the rule that limits the number of<BR>skills a PC can have - you have a useless skill taking up one "slot".<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:14:11 EDT<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/15/00 12:49:41 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; I really reall really like Outland as a Trav-esq movie. What are some <BR>others<BR>&gt;out there that have inspired TMLers to incorporate various themes into their<BR>&gt;games?<BR><BR>Jurrasic Park.<BR>--&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>How about "Dark Star" for the silly era?...:-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:17:48 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generator 'Released'<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; It's 1,156kb, so may take a while (Took about 4 minutes when I tested it<BR>&gt; &gt; on my 56.6K modem...), but it will generate 20 Male and 20 Female names<BR>&gt; &gt; at a time (just press F9 to generate another set), based on the 1990 US<BR>&gt; &gt; Census data. Every combination has an equal chance of appearing, so<BR>&gt; &gt; there aren't lot's of 'John Smith's, and the names produce are equally<BR>&gt; &gt; useful for games such as Traveller (Solomani...) and Shadowrun.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That's *way* too large for what it does. I bet I can create a<BR>&gt; stand-alone EXE using the same rules that'll be a *lot* smaller...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I only mention this because I don't have Excel anyway... :-)<BR><BR>If small is better than pretty, I wrote a DOS-based program (QBasic 4.5) that<BR>will generate some 40 names at a time. It uses two data files (for first and<BR>last names) which are simple ASCII files a user can modify. As a ZIP file,<BR>it's some 31k in size. I can put it on my web site if enough people are<BR>interested ...<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:26:04 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>From: DaveShayne &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;Well Mr. Legion I consider myself an *incredibly* sick person and I feel<BR>&gt;absolutely no need to willfully misconstrue the meaning of the sentence<BR>&gt;in question.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sorry, but I was sitting there when this Email came over my computer, &amp;<BR>I started to laugh about it, &amp; when my GF saw it she said, "You people are<BR>sick, I mean someone could take it the wrong way.", &amp; if you want to take<BR>offense, please do, as is your right.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3176<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (rly-yh02.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.34]) by air-yh02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:25:00 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:24:18 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA85129;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:23:41 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:22:09 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id CAA84847<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:22:09 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:22:09 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010180622.CAA84847@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3176<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3177<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Name Generator 'Released'<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>RE: Princess Bride<BR>RE: Aslan and heredity<BR>RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>RE: New FAQ addition<BR>RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>RE: Name Generator 'Released'<BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR>Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>RE: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR>RE: Red October<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3165<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Aslan and heredity<BR>Re: How many starports? (was Re: Starport administration)<BR>Re: Is The Digest Working OK?<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:31:37 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message ----- <BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 9:28 PM<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;So, what other 2-D movies survived?<BR>&gt; <BR>My ten, in no particular order.<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; Seven Samurai<BR>2.&nbsp; A Lion in Winter<BR>3.&nbsp; Kelly's Heroes<BR>4.&nbsp; Seven Days in May<BR>5.&nbsp; Casablanca<BR>6.&nbsp; The Three Musketeers (The Charlton Heston as Richeleu (sp?) version)<BR>7.&nbsp; Anne of a Thousand Days<BR>8.&nbsp;&nbsp; Hamburger Hill<BR>9.&nbsp; Tora, Tora, Tora!<BR>10.&nbsp; Die Hard<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:35:18 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Name Generator 'Released'<BR><BR>I'm interested.<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Brandon Cope [mailto:copeab@elc.net]<BR>&gt; Sent: 18 October 2000 07:18<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Name Generator 'Released'<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; It's 1,156kb, so may take a while (Took about 4 minutes <BR>&gt; when I tested it<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; on my 56.6K modem...), but it will generate 20 Male and <BR>&gt; 20 Female names<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; at a time (just press F9 to generate another set), based <BR>&gt; on the 1990 US<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Census data. Every combination has an equal chance of <BR>&gt; appearing, so<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; there aren't lot's of 'John Smith's, and the names <BR>&gt; produce are equally<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; useful for games such as Traveller (Solomani...) and Shadowrun.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; That's *way* too large for what it does. I bet I can create a<BR>&gt; &gt; stand-alone EXE using the same rules that'll be a *lot* smaller...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I only mention this because I don't have Excel anyway... :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If small is better than pretty, I wrote a DOS-based program <BR>&gt; (QBasic 4.5) that<BR>&gt; will generate some 40 names at a time. It uses two data files <BR>&gt; (for first and<BR>&gt; last names) which are simple ASCII files a user can modify. <BR>&gt; As a ZIP file,<BR>&gt; it's some 31k in size. I can put it on my web site if enough <BR>&gt; people are<BR>&gt; interested ...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>&gt; Brandon Cope<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 02:49:27 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:26:04 -0700<BR>&gt;From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;From: DaveShayne &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Well Mr. Legion I consider myself an *incredibly* sick person and I feel<BR>&gt;&gt;absolutely no need to willfully misconstrue the meaning of the sentence<BR>&gt;&gt;in question.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Sorry, but I was sitting there when this Email came over my computer, &amp;<BR>&gt;I started to laugh about it, &amp; when my GF saw it she said, "You people are<BR>&gt;sick, I mean someone could take it the wrong way.", &amp; if you want to take<BR>&gt;offense, please do, as is your right.<BR><BR><BR>It's not a question of taking offense. I just don't feel the need to<BR>go there is all.<BR><BR>David Shayne<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:08:35 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>Zane wrote :<BR>&gt; On a related note, does anyone have any suggestions on obtaining<BR>&gt; a good 2-D or even 3-D map of about a 100LY radius of Earth, more would be<BR>good.<BR><BR>You could try the Universe map, though I don't know if that goes to 100Ly<BR><BR>&gt; I need to be able to identify specific stars on the map.&nbsp; It would<BR>&gt; really help if it's a public domain map, or at least something currently<BR>in<BR>&gt; print that I can refer to in order to make my own map.<BR><BR>Isn't there also a standard astronomy text book that provides a similar map<BR>?<BR>I know a friend of mine doing Astronomy once showed me a book with something<BR>like teh Universe map in it only at different ranges.<BR><BR>He used it to creat a three-D rotatable display of the local 40 light year<BR>volume.<BR>I still have a copy of the code and executable somewhere, the original<BR>version was DOS-based so even Leonard could probably use it.&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Let me know if you want a copy and I'll mail it. If there's enough demand<BR>I'll put it on my<BR>web-site.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:19:42 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>Richard Persky wrote :<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Hm.&nbsp; A copy of Outreach just showed up at my local used-book <BR>&gt; store.&nbsp; Is it worth $8?<BR><BR>Yes. I've seen it go for quite a bit more in auctions.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:29:15 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Princess Bride<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote :<BR>&gt; Which one in the Princess Bride?&nbsp; Inigo v. Wesley atop the Cliffs of<BR>&gt; Madness?&nbsp; Or Inigo v. The Six-Fingered Man in the Castle.&nbsp; My<BR>&gt; vote goes for the latter.<BR><BR>Especially the way he takes out the four guardsmen between him and the The<BR>Six-Fingered Man.<BR><BR>Though Wesley's defeat of the Prince is just as impressive.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:35:05 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Aslan and heredity<BR><BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All of these possibilities have a lot of adventuring potential. As a<BR>&gt; referee, I would give the following rulings:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A) The rules and norms in these kinds of situations differ <BR>&gt; from clan to<BR>&gt; clan.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; B) The rules and norms of the clan in question are whatever would make<BR>&gt; for the most interesting story. <BR><BR><BR>Now you mention it, A and B are the wisest course. For my Aslan characters,<BR>as they say in Sweden, I sense owls in the moss. :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:37:07 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>I'm just down the road in Camberley. I don't know if there are any good<BR>stores in Reading, but there's one in Aldershot that stocks BITS products.<BR>Weather is bloody awful.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Rodney Basler [mailto:rgb@odetics.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 17 October 2000 19:00<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: Going to England (OT)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I just found out that my company is going to be sending me to <BR>&gt; our UK office<BR>&gt; in Reading for two weeks - starting next week.&nbsp; While I <BR>&gt; expect to be buried<BR>&gt; in the office for most of the time, I might be able to break <BR>&gt; away for a bit<BR>&gt; on the weekend (I hope).&nbsp; Are there any listmembers in that <BR>&gt; vicinity?&nbsp; Are<BR>&gt; there any good game stores out there?&nbsp; Can you buy the BITS <BR>&gt; materials over<BR>&gt; the counter in the UK, or are they mail-order there, too?<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Heck, what's the weather like right now??<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks,<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>&gt; ---------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me <BR>&gt; _what_ to think.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:54:47 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: New FAQ addition<BR><BR>ROFLMAOASTR!!!!!!!!!<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 16, 2000 8:38 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: New FAQ addition<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for the archives:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Starship Troopers proves Heinlein was a fascist!"<BR>&gt; "Does not!"<BR>&gt; "Does too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Not!"<BR>&gt; "Too!"<BR>&gt; "Duck Season!<BR>&gt; "Wabbit Theason!"<BR>&gt; etc.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:02:02 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>Oh my **GAWD**!!!&nbsp; That'd be SUCH a cool character animation piece!!!!!!!!!!<BR><BR>DAMMIT!!!!&nbsp; Where's one of Grandfather's pocket universes when I need it!<BR>That way I'd have all the time I'd need :)&nbsp; I'm saving (and printing) this<BR>e-mail so I don't forget the idea if I ever have the time!<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 9:40 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, why not do it all CG? Get a-rendering there, Jesse! I can see it<BR>&gt; now: 'Ditzie's Toy Story' the heartwarming tale of a young girl and her<BR>&gt; favorite high-energy toys...;-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; My most favorite Traveller film of all time is the one I<BR>&gt; haven't made yet :)<BR>&gt; &gt; I have a full movie studio between equipment I own (camera and<BR>&gt; editing) and<BR>&gt; &gt; equipment I have access to at work (sound and lighting, in<BR>&gt; addition to more<BR>&gt; &gt; editing equipment and another camera).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Wish I had the time to produce some Traveller movies :)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jesse<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; University of Arizona<BR>&gt; College of Pharmacy<BR>&gt; Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:03:38 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>ROFL!!!!<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Matthew W. Helton<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 9:52 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I can just see it....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ditzie's Toy Story: Charred Plastic and Twisted Metal<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ditzie: "Oh Buuuuuuuzzzzzzz Liiightyear, your weapon is sooo big...miiiine<BR>&gt; is bigger though." Blam! Blam! Blam!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ditzie's Toy Story Two: The Cataclysm at Mattel Inc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Bruce Johnson" &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 11:39 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Well, why not do it all CG? Get a-rendering there, Jesse! I can see it<BR>&gt; &gt; now: 'Ditzie's Toy Story' the heartwarming tale of a young girl and her<BR>&gt; &gt; favorite high-energy toys...;-)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; My most favorite Traveller film of all time is the one I haven't made<BR>&gt; yet :)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I have a full movie studio between equipment I own (camera<BR>&gt; and editing)<BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; equipment I have access to at work (sound and lighting, in addition to<BR>&gt; more<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; editing equipment and another camera).<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Wish I had the time to produce some Traveller movies :)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Jesse<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; --<BR>&gt; &gt; Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; &gt; University of Arizona<BR>&gt; &gt; College of Pharmacy<BR>&gt; &gt; Information Technology Group<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:17:20 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Name Generator 'Released'<BR><BR>Saved and archived.&nbsp; Thanks!<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Bond<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 4:54 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com; shadowrn@dumpshock.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Name Generator 'Released'<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Just to let everyone know, I've put a zipped Excel spreadsheet (should<BR>&gt; work OK in Excel 97 or 2000) on my wesite that generates 'modern' names.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Get it from:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.akira.swinternet.co.uk/trav.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; click on the link on this page to download the file.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's 1,156kb, so may take a while (Took about 4 minutes when I tested it<BR>&gt; on my 56.6K modem...), but it will generate 20 Male and 20 Female names<BR>&gt; at a time (just press F9 to generate another set), based on the 1990 US<BR>&gt; Census data. Every combination has an equal chance of appearing, so<BR>&gt; there aren't lot's of 'John Smith's, and the names produce are equally<BR>&gt; useful for games such as Traveller (Solomani...) and Shadowrun.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Comments welcome.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Matt<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:18:17 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>Aye!<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Smart, David J<BR>&gt; (David)<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 2:47 PM<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thom Harris posted: <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; BRUCE!!!! You too, I think that makes four (4) keyboards for <BR>&gt; &gt; Loren on that<BR>&gt; &gt; one post.....Damn near an *ace* on one outing.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; - ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: "Bruce Johnson" &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 12:44 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for <BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;SPLORT&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually I think the count is up to 6. Therefore...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;/megaphone mode on&gt;<BR>&gt; HEAR YE! HEAR YE! DUE TO POSTS ABOVE AND BEYOND THE CALL,<BR>&gt; WHICH HAVE RESULTED IN THE REACTIVE PROJECTION OF FLUIDS<BR>&gt; THROUGHOUT TML MEMBERS' HOMES AND DEVASTATION OF KEYBOARDS<BR>&gt; ACROSS THE WEB, LOREN WISEMAN IS HEREBY NOMINATED FOR THE <BR>&gt; TML'S "TOP GUN OF KEYBOARD KILLS" AWARD.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ALL IN FAVOR?<BR>&gt; &lt;/megaphone mode off&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;/listening mode on&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:13:43 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR><BR>Yeah, I've seen that.&nbsp; Pretty cute :)&nbsp; I think it's a GREAT way to get kids<BR>(and Steve Jackson of course ;) interested in film-making.<BR><BR>Of course, the equipment I've got access to or own is a bit more involved ;)<BR>Canon XL1 (mine)<BR>Pinnacle DC500 (mine)<BR>Adobe Premiere RT (mine)<BR>Adobe After Effects (mine)<BR>Lightwave 6.0 (mine)<BR>Panasonic ADJ-200 DVCPro<BR>Panasonic DVCPro edit deck<BR>Canopus DVREX<BR>KinoFlo lights<BR>Arri lights<BR>Mackie 1402 sound mixer (we're probably going to get a 1602 as well)<BR>Various Shure mics<BR>Sound Forge<BR><BR>I've also REALLY always wanted to get a Steadicam, but I don't have a spare<BR>$4k for the base video model after buying the XL1 :)<BR><BR>"Where does he get those wonderful toys?..." ;)<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Steven Hudson<BR>&gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 10:14 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Traveller movie studio?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: RE: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;My most favorite Traveller film of all time is the one I haven't<BR>&gt; made yet :)<BR>&gt; &gt;I have a full movie studio between equipment I own (camera and<BR>&gt; editing) and<BR>&gt; &gt;equipment I have access to at work (sound and lighting, in<BR>&gt; addition to more<BR>&gt; &gt;editing equipment and another camera).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hmm, item #1349, $180 US, "LEGO Studios Steven Spielberg<BR>&gt; MovieMaker Set".<BR>&gt; Includes low-end (c'mon, how much resolution do you need for a<BR>&gt; LEGO brick?)<BR>&gt; consumer digicam with built-in microphone, full-motion video (30 fps) and<BR>&gt; digital still modes, and all necessary software. `Tis a shame that there's<BR>&gt; no option for a zoom lens, though...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; And if you think I'm kidding, see:&nbsp; www.LEGO.com/Studios<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, now you know what to get Steve Jackson for X-Mas?<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 01:09:19 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Favourite most Trav film of all time<BR><BR>From: DaveShayne &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Sorry, but I was sitting there when this Email came over my computer,<BR>&amp;<BR>&gt;&gt;I started to laugh about it, &amp; when my GF saw it she said, "You people are<BR>&gt;&gt;sick, I mean someone could take it the wrong way.", &amp; if you want to take<BR>&gt;&gt;offense, please do, as is your right.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It's not a question of taking offense. I just don't feel the need to<BR>&gt;go there is all.<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well, I would have given her credit for a keyboard kill if she emailed<BR>that to me.&nbsp; *weg*&nbsp; But, then again the docs have been playing with my pain<BR>meds for a while.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Yes, Doug, you aren't the only one with Cancer on this ML.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:08:58 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR><BR>At 21:39 +0000 17/10/00,&nbsp; Minion@hell-labs.com wrote:<BR>&gt;I saw a show on the Learning Channel which showed a Brit sub doing a <BR>&gt;Tomahawk launch.<BR>&gt;It was a big deal since they'd not done it before.&nbsp; Something about <BR>&gt;proving they could do it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It certainly isn't standard, but it is possible, for the Brits to <BR>&gt;use Tomahawk.<BR><BR>It is becoming standard now. But we did use most of our stock up <BR>during Kosovo (IIRC),<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 09:29:09 +0100<BR>From: CGS &lt;michael@carrickfergus.schoolzone.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Red October<BR><BR>I think the Japanese tried magnetic propulsion a few years back on a<BR>ship and found it incredibly inefficent.<BR><BR>Michael<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:22:56 GMT<BR>From: "Jeff Rowse" &lt;jeffrowse@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3165<BR><BR>More proff that the Solomani are *much* better than the 3I - they're still <BR>playing with Longbow (1 or 2) whilst *we* are able to see the center of the <BR>galaxy NOW...<BR><BR>http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_976000/976972.stm - more <BR>news from the Galactic Core...<BR><BR>Jeff (aka Captain Chicken, Leg-end in his own lunchbox)<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:50:29 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt;&gt; Altogether now...<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; "Get it?"<BR><BR>&gt;Got it!<BR><BR>Good.<BR><BR><BR>tc<BR>"It may be old, but it's a classic."<BR><BR><BR><BR>(You can have a keyboard kill for just making me think of Kaye's<BR>performance.&nbsp; I'd love to get my hands on a script to work out the<BR>flagon/dragon, chalice/palace, vessel/pestle stuff though I suspect it's<BR>not 'solvable'.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:07:52 +0200<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aslan and heredity<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; A) The rules and norms in these kinds of situations differ<BR>&gt; &gt; from clan to<BR>&gt; &gt; clan.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; B) The rules and norms of the clan in question are whatever would make<BR>&gt; &gt; for the most interesting story.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now you mention it, A and B are the wisest course.<BR><BR>Yes, both A and B together. That's what I meant.<BR><BR>&gt; For my Aslan characters, as they say in Sweden, I sense owls in the moss. :)<BR><BR>Translating idioms like that will cause you to go mad, unless you<BR>already are mad. If you are, it will cause you to go "WHOOOPIEWHOOOO !"<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:09:08 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: How many starports? (was Re: Starport administration)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; On the gripping hand, you WILL typically have one and only one traffic <BR>&gt; control facility that oversees the system as a whole, though they will talk <BR>&gt; to a great many local traffic controls that oversee individual ports, moons, <BR>&gt; etc. depending on the development level of the system. This Central Traffic <BR>&gt; Control will likely be close to the center of the Imperial Port Authority, <BR>&gt; and be directly under the Portmaster's command.<BR><BR>Nope. Can't be done. Keep in mind that the *minimum* lag time between<BR>Earth and Mars is 5 minutes *one way*. The maximum would be almost 22<BR>minutes one way *if* the Sun wasn't in the way. Relaying via a third<BR>planet that has a line of sight on both Earth &amp; Mars will kick the lag<BR>up over 30 minutes.<BR><BR>Earth-Pluto lags are around 5 *hours* one way.<BR><BR>So that means you *can't* have a trasffic control that "oversees" the<BR>whole system except in the broadest possible sense of the term. <BR><BR>Instead, each planet will have a control center handling stuff out to<BR>the 100 diameter limit, maybe out to a light minute. <BR><BR>Traffic travelling between planets, but not using jump (mostly "bulk<BR>cargo" in free transit) will probably file flight plans and wait for<BR>confirmation (what's an hour out of weeks of travel, or a day out of<BR>*years*?)<BR><BR>But it may not be required. They may just require flight plans and<BR>radar corners or beacons for unpiloted loads, and have the rest be on<BR>the equivalent of the "visual flight rules" for aircraft. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:53:01 -0700<BR>From: shudson@lightspeed.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>Subject: Re: Is The Digest Working OK?<BR><BR>...<BR>&gt;For example, which digest contains the initial post of "China-Japan-Phillipines<BR>&gt;Conflicts"?<BR><BR>&nbsp; It's spill-over from another list, courtesy of treacherous address books :|<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3177<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3178</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>10/18/00 8:35:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3178<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Idioms, expletives (was: Going to England (OT) )<BR>RE: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>RE: Jump Time<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: How many starports? (was Re: Starport administration)<BR>Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR>Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR>Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR>re:Is The Digest Working OK?<BR>Vessel with the Pestle (Was Re: Princess Bride)<BR>RE: Starport administration<BR>RE: Starport administration<BR>RE: Starport administration<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR>RE: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:04:11 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>Rod Basler, COFIT, wrote:<BR>&gt; I just found out that my company is going to be sending me to<BR>&gt; our UK office in Reading for two weeks - starting next week.<BR>&gt; While I expect to be buried in the office for most of the time,<BR>&gt; I might be able to break away for a bit on the weekend (I hope).<BR>&gt; Are there any listmembers in that vicinity?&nbsp; Are there any good<BR>&gt; game stores out there?&nbsp; Can you buy the BITS materials over the<BR>&gt; counter in the UK, or are they mail-order there, too?<BR>&gt; Heck, what's the weather like right now??<BR><BR>I'm on the other side of London (so not exactly in the&nbsp; vicinity,<BR>but ...).<BR><BR>Leisure Games is your best bet for a game store and IIRC they&nbsp; do<BR>mail-order.&nbsp; I sometimes visit Orc's Nest but they have&nbsp; no&nbsp; BITS<BR>stuff.<BR><BR>Looking out the window the weather is overcast with&nbsp; intermittent<BR>light drizzle, but not too cold.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:11:04 -0400<BR>From: "John Watts" &lt;jwatts@catt.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR><BR>Well, here's my list:<BR><BR>1&gt;Goldfinger<BR>2&gt; Star Wars<BR>3&gt; Raiders of the Lost Ark<BR>4&gt; Casablanca<BR>5&gt; Soylent Green<BR>6&gt; Gone with the Wind<BR>7&gt; The Empire Strikes Back<BR>8&gt; Psycho<BR>9&gt; Apocalypse Now<BR>10&gt; Harvey<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>"Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a Good Blaster"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -H. Solo, respected Solomani Philosopher<BR><BR>IMTU-UWP John Watts 0608 C209389-8 N hi-- as+ va+ so+++ da+&nbsp; 223<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:41:06 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>&gt; "Jones, Dean" wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; A) The rules and norms in these kinds of situations differ<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; from clan to<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; clan.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; B) The rules and norms of the clan in question are whatever would make<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; for the most interesting story.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Now you mention it, A and B are the wisest course.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yes, both A and B together. That's what I meant.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; For my Aslan characters, as they say in Sweden, I sense owls in the<BR>moss. :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Translating idioms like that will cause you to go mad, unless you<BR>&gt; already are mad. If you are, it will cause you to go "WHOOOPIEWHOOOO !"<BR><BR>...or with swedish idioms: you will get owls in the loft.<BR><BR>hmmm. what about idioms in the far future? will "hell" be a strong word in<BR>an imperium mostly consisting of beings with no history with christianity?<BR>in many sci-fi books expletetives are often of the type "what in the name of<BR>the core..." or&nbsp; "by the emperors bones!". partly to make the books more<BR>suited for minors, i suppose, but all the same -- with a different cultural<BR>background than the one we have in the (western) world, different<BR>expletetives are to be expected. what exepletetives do aslan, vargr, hivers,<BR>droyne, use? (for droyne, might "uncasted" to be an insult?) which are your<BR>favorite travelleresque expletetives?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:53:28 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt;Leisure Games is your best bet for a game store and IIRC they&nbsp; do<BR>&gt;mail-order.&nbsp; I sometimes visit Orc's Nest but they have&nbsp; no&nbsp; BITS<BR>&gt;stuff.<BR><BR>Why not? Talk to them, convince them, that the BITS books are the next best <BR>thing to sliced bread.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:58:56 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;3) Akira<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Seminal Anime flick.<BR><BR>Hmm, in anime id prefer something lighter. perhaps a Ghibli film like <BR>Mononoke, Nausica, Whisper of the Heart or Grave of the Fireflies (this <BR>one is so sad, i cry every time i see it)<BR><BR>6) 200 Motels<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Frank Zappa and the Mother's of Invention turned out<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; this Rock&amp;Roll classic.<BR><BR>I always thought that this movie would be great if on drugs. Never tried <BR>any, though, so i cant really say<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:08:31 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Idioms, expletives (was: Going to England (OT) )<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Leisure Games is your best bet for a game store and IIRC they&nbsp; do<BR>&gt; &gt;mail-order.&nbsp; I sometimes visit Orc's Nest but they have&nbsp; no&nbsp; BITS<BR>&gt; &gt;stuff.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Why not? Talk to them, convince them, that the BITS books are <BR>&gt; the next best <BR>&gt; thing to sliced bread.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>You mean 'the best thing SINCE sliced bread' , right? If not, rememind me<BR>never to eat your sandwiches. :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:27:11 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ...or with swedish idioms: you will get owls in the loft.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; hmmm. what about idioms in the far future? will "hell" be a <BR>&gt; strong word in<BR>&gt; an imperium mostly consisting of beings with no history with <BR>&gt; christianity?<BR><BR>Red zone, maybe?<BR><BR>&gt; in many sci-fi books expletetives are often of the type "what <BR>&gt; in the name of<BR>&gt; the core..." or&nbsp; "by the emperors bones!".<BR><BR><BR>I guess spacers might have referances to misjumps. With the general autonomy<BR>and delegative structure of the Imperium I'd suggest that referances to the<BR>Emperor are less likely. Natually, local slang depends on planetary<BR>government styles and religions.<BR><BR><BR>partly to make the <BR>&gt; books more<BR>&gt; suited for minors, i suppose, but all the same -- with a <BR>&gt; different cultural<BR>&gt; background than the one we have in the (western) world, different<BR>&gt; expletetives are to be expected. what exepletetives do aslan, <BR><BR>Something about lacking honour, running away, being puny. Actual insults,<BR>however, are an art form, so there are unlikely to generic insults.<BR><BR>&gt; vargr,<BR><BR>In a charsma-based social structure, the worst insult is likely to be<BR>'Loser.'<BR><BR>&gt; hivers,<BR><BR>No expletives. Using swear words suggests some kind of emotional response.<BR>If you hear a Hiver swearing, he's probably trying to manipulate you.<BR><BR>&gt; droyne, use? (for droyne, might "uncasted" to be an insult?) <BR><BR>Uncasted droyne are either children or chirpers. I'd suggest that droyne<BR>expletives vary caste-by-caste, depending on what concept is most alien to<BR>the caste, and appropriate to the situation. Remeber the droyne tendancy to<BR>agree to inpossible demads, as well.<BR><BR>Sport: Sir, the jump-drive is failing to engage. The jump grid is fused.<BR>Leader: Electronics! Technician, fix it, fix it now!<BR>Technician(rolling eyes): Yes sir, as a technician I can certainly replace a<BR>jump grid in while we're in combat. No problem at all.<BR><BR>&gt; which are your<BR>&gt; favorite travelleresque expletetives?<BR><BR>I like to swear in Fteir..it's got that rolling sound good for muttering<BR>under your breath.<BR><BR>Female: Yes, we can fix your jump-grid, but it'll cost MCr5<BR>Sport: Rukhta!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:31:05 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Jump Time<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; Why does each jump take one week? That seems _far_ too long for<BR>&gt; traveling a mere parsec (or less). So how about three days, or<BR>&gt; even the below system:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Time = 7*P/J<BR>&gt; where P is the number of parsecs traveled (round up) and J is<BR>&gt; the Jump Number used to get there.<BR><BR>The short answer is that, unlike conventional movement, there&nbsp; is<BR>*no* corelation between distance travelled and time spent.<BR><BR>&lt;technobable&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; My take is that the jump drive creates a static&nbsp; warp&nbsp; bubble<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; around the ship and that that bubble does not&nbsp; exist&nbsp; in&nbsp; our<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; universe ... it is&nbsp; essentially&nbsp; a&nbsp; short-lived&nbsp; tiny&nbsp; pocket<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; universe.&nbsp; As a&nbsp; cosmological&nbsp; constant&nbsp; (IMTU)&nbsp; static&nbsp; warp<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; bubbles are only stable if built to exist&nbsp; for&nbsp; multiples&nbsp; of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; aproximately 7 days (its a resonance thing).&nbsp; A&nbsp; warp&nbsp; bubble<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; can be built that would only last 2&nbsp; days&nbsp; but&nbsp; it&nbsp; would&nbsp; be<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; unstable and prone to deform into a singularity (which&nbsp; would<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; not be good for anyone inside).&nbsp; A warp bubble could be built<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; that would last 14 days, or 21 days, etc ...&nbsp; but&nbsp; why&nbsp; would<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; you want to?&nbsp; Upon reintegration with our universe&nbsp; the&nbsp; warp<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; bubble can theoretically 'choose' any reference frame&nbsp; within<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; the universe, in practice there&nbsp; needs&nbsp; to&nbsp; be&nbsp; a&nbsp; degree&nbsp; of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; 'similarity' to its original reference frame&nbsp; (ie.&nbsp; within&nbsp; X<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; parsecs).&nbsp; Thus a ship in jump does *not* travel anywhere and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; so there is no correlation between time&nbsp; spent&nbsp; in&nbsp; jump&nbsp; and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; distence jumped to.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; A jump-2 drive can choose a reentry frame of&nbsp; reference&nbsp; that<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; is twice as far from the original as a jump-1 drive, but&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; reentry occurs after the same duration.&nbsp; Even if&nbsp; the&nbsp; actual<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; distance is only 1 parsec the jump-2&nbsp; drive&nbsp; takes&nbsp; the&nbsp; same<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; time as the jump-1 drive.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; While it is possible (but hazardous) to create a static&nbsp; warp<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; bubble from within the 100D limit,&nbsp; no&nbsp; 3I&nbsp; (or&nbsp; any&nbsp; of&nbsp; its<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; neighbours) scientist has *succeeded* in forcing the&nbsp; reentry<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; frame chosen to be within the 100D limit.&nbsp; But it&nbsp; should&nbsp; be<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; noted that since&nbsp; there&nbsp; is&nbsp; no&nbsp; travelling&nbsp; done&nbsp; withn&nbsp; the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; universe&nbsp; any&nbsp; interveining&nbsp; objects&nbsp; (stars,&nbsp; planets,&nbsp; etc)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; between the origin point and destination point can be ignored<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; ... they do not force a ship out of jump because they are not<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; passed.<BR>&lt;/technobable&gt;<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:52:00 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In no particular order:<BR><BR>Kelly's Heros<BR>The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly<BR>Dark Star<BR>Blazing Saddles<BR>Gone With the Wind<BR>The Lion in Winter<BR>The Three/Four Musketeers<BR>Zulu<BR><BR>yours,<BR>Michael<BR>- -- <BR>Michael and MJ Houghton&nbsp;&nbsp; | Herveus d'Ormonde and Megan O'Donnelly<BR>herveus@radix.net&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | White Wolf and the Phoenix<BR>Bowie, MD, USA&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Tablet and Inkle bands, and other stuff<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | http://www.radix.net/~herveus/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:38:16 EDT<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: How many starports? (was Re: Starport administration)<BR><BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) sez:<BR><BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; On the gripping hand, you WILL typically have one and only one traffic <BR>&gt;&gt; control facility that oversees the system as a whole, though they will <BR>talk <BR>&gt;&gt; to a great many local traffic controls that oversee individual ports, <BR>moons, <BR>&gt;&gt; etc. depending on the development level of the system. This Central <BR>Traffic <BR>&gt;&gt; Control will likely be close to the center of the Imperial Port Authority, <BR>&gt;&gt; and be directly under the Portmaster's command.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Nope. Can't be done. Keep in mind that the *minimum* lag time between<BR>&gt;Earth and Mars is 5 minutes *one way*. The maximum would be almost 22<BR>&gt;minutes one way *if* the Sun wasn't in the way. Relaying via a third<BR>&gt;planet that has a line of sight on both Earth &amp; Mars will kick the lag<BR>&gt;up over 30 minutes.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Earth-Pluto lags are around 5 *hours* one way.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;So that means you *can't* have a trasffic control that "oversees" the<BR>&gt;whole system except in the broadest possible sense of the term. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Instead, each planet will have a control center handling stuff out to<BR>&gt;the 100 diameter limit, maybe out to a light minute. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Traffic travelling between planets, but not using jump (mostly "bulk<BR>&gt;cargo" in free transit) will probably file flight plans and wait for<BR>&gt;confirmation (what's an hour out of weeks of travel, or a day out of<BR>&gt;*years*?)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;But it may not be required. They may just require flight plans and<BR>&gt;radar corners or beacons for unpiloted loads, and have the rest be on<BR>&gt;the equivalent of the "visual flight rules" for aircraft. <BR>&gt;<BR><BR>C'mon Leonard. If you're going to say you disagree, then at least have the <BR>grace to actually do so...&nbsp; :-)<BR><BR>I'm quite aware of light-lag. I'm also aware that, in the games I play, it <BR>has no real effect unless I want it to. Campaigns that stay in combat-time <BR>for everything will need to worry about it ("How long 'til we get help <BR>against the pirate out there?" "Not until we're dead or it is, 2nd.").<BR><BR>In a system with any reasonable Imperial presense, some portion of the "sta<BR>rport" WILL function as a central clearinghouse for all starship movement <BR>in-system, even if they didn't collect the information themselves. Even hours <BR>old, this information is useful, and may be a part of the SPA mandate. "Know <BR>what's going on in your assigned system, even if the inhabitants don't."<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:49:47 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR><BR>At 21:43 -0400 17/10/00, howard.anderson@psu.edu (Cheng Tseng) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Speaking of missiles, it was interesting that they decided to buy<BR>&gt; &gt;AMRAAM initially for the Typhoon (Eurofighter) with a future European<BR>&gt; &gt;built missile to replace it. My gut feeling is that aside from the<BR>&gt; &gt;jobs side, the decision came to improve the export chance the<BR>&gt; &gt;aircraft.<BR>&gt;At last check, the RAF had decided to go with the Meteor instead of the<BR>&gt;AMRAAM, much to the chagrin of many people Stateside.<BR><BR>ISTR that the AMRAAM is being used as an interim solution until <BR>Meteor is in service.<BR><BR>&gt;It was widely believed that MoD's decision to lease some C-17 Globemaster<BR>&gt;IIIs was suppose to be a consolation prize for not choosing an American<BR>&gt;missile.&nbsp; Then again, not many people in the world are building military<BR>&gt;transport aircraft like the Globemaster.<BR><BR>That may actually be because the MoD is no longer buying the Hercules <BR>(may have something to do with a late delivery of some recent ones) <BR>and has gone for the Airbus A400M instead. Again, there will be a <BR>period before this is in service.<BR><BR>ObTrav: Would the Imperium see as much politicking around arms <BR>procurement? Would each of the ArchDukes be trying to influence for <BR>the suppliers in their sectors?<BR><BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:46:11 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR><BR>At 21:43 -0400 17/10/00, SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>Please disregard that message - wrong list (three times this week, my <BR>head is hurting).<BR><BR>Dom<BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:01:57 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinor's Motivations<BR><BR>At 0:20 -0400 18/10/00, Joseph J Alberti Jr &lt;albertijjr@juno.com&gt;wrote:<BR>&gt;Your points are well thought out with some good background information to<BR>&gt;back it up.&nbsp; I do not own any M0 material, so I was not aware of the<BR>&gt;Warrant of Restoration.<BR><BR>The M0 Campaign Book is worth grabbing if you find a copy. ISTR that <BR>some people on the TML actually drafted the Warrant of Restoration, <BR>so it may be traceable in the archives?<BR><BR>I agree with your analogies to Rome. Of Dulinor and Lucan, the latter <BR>is the one I actively dislike.<BR><BR>&gt;Also, if Strephon returned quickly to Capital, rather than going to<BR>&gt;Usdiki, he problably could have prevented Lucan from gaining a power<BR>&gt;base.<BR><BR>Survival Margin (p9) mentions that Strephon was without sleep for the <BR>best part of 5 days, and the Doctor's entry states "I believe that <BR>his instincts were to return to Capital at once to regain control of <BR>the situation, but he appears to have become so numbed by these <BR>events that he has been content to allow his staff to order a course <BR>to his holdings at Usdiki."<BR><BR>So we have an Emperor, emotionally devastated and sleep deprived <BR>having poor advice from his staff.<BR><BR>I have this feeling that, had he returned to Capital, Lucan may have <BR>tried to have him killed now that power was in his grasp. Of course, <BR>if Strephon had an appropriate 'Code Blue' he could confirm his <BR>identity to the system defenses and Lucan's fall would be a fait <BR>accompli.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:08:05 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re:Is The Digest Working OK?<BR><BR>At 2:22 -0400 18/10/00, david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au wrote:<BR>&gt;I don't know if I'm blind, skimming too fast, or if this is a real problem. It<BR>&gt;seems to me as if the digest version of the TML is missing a few posts.<BR>&gt;For example, which digest contains the initial post of <BR>&gt;"China-Japan-Phillipines<BR>&gt;Conflicts"?<BR><BR>Digest is working fine, Dom is working badly (off ill and should be <BR>in bed). Dom has accidentally cross posted three times and each has <BR>sparked off a discussion here on TML. Dom is feeling really stupid <BR>and hoping that it hasn't been noticed by those on both lists. Damn! <BR>Now I've given that away.<BR><BR>Sorry.<BR><BR>Dom (Well, I think it beats the Starship Troopers stuff anyway)<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:36:54 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Vessel with the Pestle (Was Re: Princess Bride)<BR><BR>Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (You can have a keyboard kill for just making me think of Kaye's<BR>&gt; performance.&nbsp; I'd love to get my hands on a script to work out the<BR>&gt; flagon/dragon, chalice/palace, vessel/pestle stuff though I <BR>&gt; suspect it's<BR>&gt; not 'solvable'.)<BR><BR>It's solvable.<BR><BR>I've two .wav files, one is a partial of the "Get It" routine while<BR>the other is a partial of the "Vessel" routine. You're welcome to<BR>zipped copies of both, if you'd like.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:50:05 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Matthew Bond<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, 18 October 2000 8:40 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;However, *any* space facility, other than the principal starport, is<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;rated as a *spaceport*, not a *starport*.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I disagree.&nbsp; A Spaceport is not the same thing as a Starport.&nbsp; A<BR>&gt; &gt; Spaceport cannot build anything, but a Starport can build a Starship.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A type *A* Starport can build starships (or rather, a system with a type<BR>&gt; A starport has the facilities to build starships during peacetime [see<BR>&gt; TCS])<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The term 'spaceport' is used to distinguish all other facilities in the<BR>&gt; system from the principal 'starport' *even if they would otherwise be<BR>&gt; big enough to be a starport*<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If you have two potentially type A starports in the system *one* of them<BR>&gt; is classified the 'starport', the other is a massive spaceport.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Don't get hung up about whether a particular facility can *build* a<BR>&gt; starship. They will be built in factories in the system, not necessarily<BR>&gt; on the landing field itself. Does Boeing build 747's at JFK? Heathrow?<BR>&gt; LA-X? No.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Is the Shuttle *built* at Canaveral/Kennedy. No. The boosters and<BR>&gt; external tank are attached to a pre-built shuttle there, but nothing is<BR>&gt; actually *built* on site.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Matt<BR>&gt;<BR>In Invasion Earth doesn't Earth have three starports (Sao Paulo, AECO, and<BR>La Grange) with additional orbital facilities mentioned in other<BR>publications giving A class orbital starports as well?<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:50:00 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;The interesting one:&nbsp; for some obscure reason the Navy doesn't<BR>&gt; have an HFB<BR>&gt; &gt;available at this time.&nbsp; Indeed, one might get the impression that the<BR>&gt; &gt;subsector Duke doesn't particularly like Count Imanoble...&nbsp; Perhaps there<BR>&gt; &gt;is some reason why the Count is hanging out in a fortress!&nbsp; But of course<BR>&gt; &gt;this is all most improbable - the nobility are, as we know, one big happy<BR>&gt; &gt;family that stick together, and never, never engage in violent feuds.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well, do you mean a BHFB/Tigress or the HFB/Broadsword?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then any other major warship could be used.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Anyway, I don't think the 3I likes the idea of a full<BR>&gt; division of troops<BR>&gt; not under their control.&nbsp; I can see Count Imanoble's troops at at least<BR>&gt; TL13, so your division will have to be at least equal to TL13 to<BR>&gt; be able to<BR>&gt; fight them &amp; win.&nbsp; And, I cannot see the 3I letting a division of TL13 run<BR>&gt; around, as they could take over a small world &amp; destablize the 3I.<BR>&gt;<BR>Ah comeone who needs a Tigress when a single Kinunir class "battlecruiser"<BR>can defend entire subsectors by itself.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:12:16 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR><BR>Legate Legion writes:<BR>&gt;&gt;I think that Matt was talking about cities of 100,000-900,000.<BR>&gt;Which would be what Phoenix is made up of.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;If 10 million people make up a small city to you,<BR>&gt;&gt;then Phoenix with its population of 3 million must be a village.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 100,000 to 900,000 = 3 million?<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Now, Phoenix, at a population of 3 million has (in Traveller Terms):<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;1 Class A Starport:&nbsp; Skyharbor.<BR>&gt;&gt;Wow!&nbsp; They are building starships in Phoenix?!&nbsp; Those<BR>&gt;&gt;guys have all the fun.<BR>&gt;&gt; :)<BR>&gt;No, but we do build transatlantic aircraft here &amp; in Traveller Terms<BR>&gt;that is a Starship.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; In Traveller terms transatlantic aircraft are aircraft, not<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; starships.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;1 Naval Base:&nbsp; Luke Airforce Base.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;1 Class B Starport:&nbsp; Deervalley Airport.<BR>&gt;&gt;Cool!&nbsp; They build interplanetary ships and do annual<BR>&gt;&gt;maintenance on starsips at this airport.<BR>&gt;&gt;:)<BR>&gt;They do build small aircraft out there, so yes, they basicly in<BR>&gt;Traveller Terms have a Class B Starport.<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; There was a grassy field in Kittyhawk where the one and only<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; facility on the planet that built aircraft was located.&nbsp; I guess<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; that made it a class B starport.&nbsp; This also means that any<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; planet that makes aircraft has at least a class B starport.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; For that matter, perhaps on a TL 3 world a naval ship is a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; starship "in Traveller terms," so there are lots of class A<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; starports on any world with TL 3+ and appreciable Pop.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; :)<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:18:06 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: William Molendyk &lt;wmolendyk@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>- --- John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Well, Emperor Strephon seems to have enjoyed _The Princess Bride_ enough<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; to have quoted it in his journals....<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; It's one of the few classics from the Golden Age of 2-D movies to survive<BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt; &gt; Long Night.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All right.&nbsp; Based on Emperor Strephon's quote from _The Princess Bride_<BR>&gt; (and confirmed by LKW), we know that _The Princess Bride_ survived the<BR>&gt; Long Night.&nbsp; Further, based on LKW's remarks, few other 2-D movies<BR>&gt; survived the turmoil.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; So, what other 2-D movies survived?<BR><BR>Limited to ten movies and wanting to make the list somewhat diverse here's my<BR>picks:<BR><BR>Casablanca<BR>My Dinner with Andre<BR>Gone with the Wind<BR>Snow White<BR>Kiss of Death (orginal)<BR>The Sound of Music<BR>Pulp Fiction<BR>Animal House<BR>Godzilla (original)<BR>Toxic Avenger<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; William Molendyk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:24:47 -0400<BR>From: "Walt Smith" &lt;smithw@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; As I understand it, US law gives bounty hunters (at least ones <BR>going after folks who have jumped bail) a lot of powers/rights <BR>that someplace such as England probably doesn't.<BR><BR>The way I've heard it explained, "bounty hunters" who work for<BR>Bail Bondsmen have no more powers or rights granted to them by<BR>US Law than any other private citizen.<BR><BR>When you sign a contract with a Bail Bondsman, you *yourself*<BR>give these powers and rights to him and his designated<BR>representatives.&nbsp; The contract specifies what actions you<BR>will permit them to perform to return you to the court if<BR>you jump bail.<BR><BR>It isn't breaking and entering if you've given someone<BR>blanket permission to enter every building you own.&nbsp; It<BR>isn't kidnapping if you've contracted with someone<BR>to take you from point A (wherever you are right now)<BR>to point B (standing before the court).<BR><BR>Having not had the pleasure of needing to deal with<BR>a bail bondsman, I have yet to check this information<BR>against an actual contract.&nbsp; Can anyone confirm this?<BR><BR>Walt Smith<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:29:10 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The way I've heard it explained, "bounty hunters" who work for<BR>&gt; Bail Bondsmen have no more powers or rights granted to them by<BR>&gt; US Law than any other private citizen.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; When you sign a contract with a Bail Bondsman, you *yourself*<BR>&gt; give these powers and rights to him and his designated<BR>&gt; representatives.&nbsp; The contract specifies what actions you<BR>&gt; will permit them to perform to return you to the court if<BR>&gt; you jump bail.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It isn't breaking and entering if you've given someone<BR>&gt; blanket permission to enter every building you own.&nbsp; It<BR>&gt; isn't kidnapping if you've contracted with someone<BR>&gt; to take you from point A (wherever you are right now)<BR>&gt; to point B (standing before the court).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Having not had the pleasure of needing to deal with<BR>&gt; a bail bondsman, I have yet to check this information<BR>&gt; against an actual contract.&nbsp; Can anyone confirm this?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Way too vague, Walt...there seem to be differant laws on the powers for bail<BR>bondsmen in each state. Common sense suggests that the examples given above<BR>would be generally valid. However, the bounty hunters in the 3I universe<BR>operate, I suspect, waaay differant from US bounty hunters. Perhaps there<BR>are both kinds?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3178<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3179<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3178<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>re: Vessel with the Pestle (Was Re: Princess Bride)<BR>RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>RE: (OT) 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>RE: (OT) 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>Re: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>going off-list<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: going off-list<BR>Re: Xboats don't have phones, a**hole<BR>Re: Traveller movie studio?<BR>Guildsman #7 (fanzine)<BR>Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts (Meteor)<BR>Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>SF Bounty Hunters (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3178)<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:15:37<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>At 10:18 PM 10/17/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Fair Warning, Penguin Boy:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Just how many times do you think that Mitsuko (do recall she does karaoke)<BR>&gt;and Akashi have seen #7?<BR><BR>Can't be more than my life total of 769 showings.&nbsp; I think I actually saw<BR>the movie twice, the rest of the time I was in cast.<BR><BR>I played Columbia when I was 13, have been in casts on two different<BR>continents, and have played every part in the film at least twice.&nbsp; Kirsten<BR>is currently part of the Wired and Untamed Things, an internet cast.<BR><BR>"And crawling, on the planet's face<BR>Some insects, called the human race<BR>Lost in time, and lost in space..<BR>and meaning."<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:38:18<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR><BR>At 09:40 PM 10/17/2000 -0500, you wrote:<BR>&gt;"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Along with "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", which led to a very strange<BR>&gt;&gt; planet in my T4 game...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;BTW, what _is_ the Tech Level of the planet Transsexual, in the galaxy<BR>&gt;of Transylvania?&nbsp; TL 19+?&nbsp; I should think that it exceeds Imperial tech,<BR>&gt;given both the technology to teleport an entire mansion from one galaxy<BR>&gt;to another and the ability to build a handheld laser capable of shooting<BR>&gt;a beam of pure antimatter....<BR><BR>Antimatter is TL17, but since Frank didn't vanish, we can't call it a<BR>disintegrator.&nbsp; Also, when the castle took off (there goes the<BR>neighborhood) it appeared to be a simple CG drive.<BR><BR>More clues appear in the creation of Rocky.&nbsp; Frank obviously has access to<BR>advanced medical techniques, since he split Eddie's brain between the two<BR>of them.<BR><BR>I'd call it TL 17 - 18.&nbsp; With a severe drop in communications technology.<BR>After all, "Castles don't have telephones, a**hole!"<BR><BR>Perhaps Transylvania has access to Ancient technology, which is why<BR>Riff-Raff found their interstellar drive (which erroneously refers to as a<BR>Time Warp) to be so astounding.&nbsp; It is obvious that their drive isn't<BR>perfected, since the effects listed in the song include "the blackness<BR>would hit me" and "the void would be calling."&nbsp; Perhaps the Transylvanians<BR>are just very sensitive to jumpspace, causing them to become "spaced out on<BR>sensation" producing a state not unlike that of a person taking sedatives.<BR><BR>The possibility that Transylvania might have some Zhodani links cannot be<BR>ignored.&nbsp; Frank shows signs of having a Special psionic ability, seducing<BR>both the Hero and Heroine in a single night.&nbsp; Along with his ability to<BR>induce passion, he must also have the Awareness talent Psionically Enhanced<BR>Endurance!&nbsp; Riff-Raff and Magenta rarely speak to each other, suggesting<BR>Telepathy.&nbsp; Could the Castle have been a branch of the Psionics Institute?<BR>Did Brad and Janet just happen across it, or were they directed there?&nbsp; And<BR>what of the floor show?<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"Pardon me, excuse me, Giant vampiric flightless winged<BR>squirrel, coming through.."&nbsp; -Tim the Paladin, "Yamara"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:43:50 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3178<BR><BR>Dean posted:<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Having not had the pleasure of needing to deal with<BR>&gt; &gt; a bail bondsman, I have yet to check this information<BR>&gt; &gt; against an actual contract.&nbsp; Can anyone confirm this?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Way too vague, Walt...there seem to be differant laws on the <BR>&gt; powers for bail bondsmen in each state. Common sense suggests<BR>&gt; that the examples given above would be generally valid. <BR>&gt; However, the bounty hunters in the 3I universe<BR>&gt; operate, I suspect, waaay differant from US bounty hunters. <BR>&gt; Perhaps there are both kinds?<BR><BR>An interesting site for the basics on bounty hunting in the<BR>US is:<BR><BR>http://www.onworld.com/BHO/index.html<BR><BR>It's not the "definitive" site on the subject but there's<BR>worthwhile thoughts there.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:09:42 -0400<BR>From: "Walt Smith" &lt;smithw@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Here's my list, in no particular order, for ones I'd *like* <BR>to have survive:<BR><BR>1) Kelly's Heroes.&nbsp; When I first showed this movie to my<BR>gaming group, they were amazed - they thought it was one<BR>of the best "bunch of gamers on the screen" movies they'd<BR>ever seen.<BR><BR>2) Star Wars<BR>3) Dark Star<BR>4) Bladerunner<BR>5) The Princess Bride<BR>6) Monty Python's Quest for the Holy Grail<BR>7) The Longest Day<BR>8) Alien<BR>9) Wizards (the 1977 animated movie by Ralph Bakshi)<BR>10) Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan ("Even numbered<BR>Star Trek movies don't suck!" - SciFi Channel ad for<BR>a recent Star Trek movie marathon of just the even<BR>numbered movies.)<BR><BR>Walt Smith<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:08:58 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: re: Vessel with the Pestle (Was Re: Princess Bride)<BR><BR>"Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;&gt; (You can have a keyboard kill for just making me think of Kaye's<BR>&gt;&gt; performance.&nbsp; I'd love to get my hands on a script to work out the<BR>&gt;&gt; flagon/dragon, chalice/palace, vessel/pestle stuff though I<BR>&gt;&gt; suspect it's<BR>&gt;&gt; not 'solvable'.)<BR><BR>&gt;It's solvable.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;I've two .wav files, one is a partial of the "Get It" routine while<BR>&gt;the other is a partial of the "Vessel" routine. You're welcome to<BR>&gt;zipped copies of both, if you'd like.<BR><BR><BR>oooh, yes please...<BR><BR>many thanks<BR><BR><BR>tc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:08:52 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR><BR>Time for Occam's Razor!<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Along with "The Rocky Horror Picture Show", which led to a <BR>&gt; very strange<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; planet in my T4 game...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;BTW, what _is_ the Tech Level of the planet Transsexual, in <BR>&gt; the galaxy<BR>&gt; &gt;of Transylvania?&nbsp; TL 19+?&nbsp; I should think that it exceeds <BR>&gt; Imperial tech,<BR>&gt; &gt;given both the technology to teleport an entire mansion from <BR>&gt; one galaxy<BR>&gt; &gt;to another and the ability to build a handheld laser capable <BR>&gt; of shooting<BR>&gt; &gt;a beam of pure antimatter....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Antimatter is TL17, but since Frank didn't vanish, we can't call it a<BR>&gt; disintegrator.&nbsp; Also, when the castle took off (there goes the<BR>&gt; neighborhood) it appeared to be a simple CG drive.<BR><BR>Yes, the Transexuans seem to be rather lackadaisical in their application of<BR>scientific terminology. The lack of annihilative explosions and Hawking<BR>radiation seems to suggest that the 'antimatter' beams are actually a form<BR>of neural disruptor. Frank was essentially undamaged by the hit from the AM<BR>beam. Plasma or anykind of enhanced radiation would likely leave surface<BR>damage, but Frank didn't even get ladders in his fishnets.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; More clues appear in the creation of Rocky.&nbsp; Frank obviously <BR>&gt; has access to<BR>&gt; advanced medical techniques, since he split Eddie's brain <BR>&gt; between the two<BR>&gt; of them.<BR><BR>Nah, brain transplantation can't be more than about TL9-10, surely?<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd call it TL 17 - 18.&nbsp; With a severe drop in communications <BR>&gt; technology.<BR>&gt; After all, "Castles don't have telephones, a**hole!"<BR><BR>This *is* the 2oth Century. There's nothing to stop them being fitted by<BR>progressive owners.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perhaps Transylvania has access to Ancient technology, which is why<BR>&gt; Riff-Raff found their interstellar drive (which erroneously <BR>&gt; refers to as a<BR>&gt; Time Warp) to be so astounding. <BR><BR>He was an interstellar cop masquerading as a handy-man. I think we should<BR>cut the poor guy some slack if Spacio-Temporal manipulation machinery isn't<BR>his forte. <BR><BR>It is obvious that their drive isn't<BR>&gt; perfected, since the effects listed in the song include "the blackness<BR>&gt; would hit me" and "the void would be calling."&nbsp; Perhaps the <BR>&gt; Transylvanians<BR>&gt; are just very sensitive to jumpspace, causing them to become <BR>&gt; "spaced out on<BR>&gt; sensation" producing a state not unlike that of a person <BR>&gt; taking sedatives.<BR><BR>Well, a society that invented the garter belt before it invented the wheel<BR>likely isn't too strong on the technical skills. Besides, they probably<BR>*like* it that way. <BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The possibility that Transylvania might have some Zhodani <BR>&gt; links cannot be<BR>&gt; ignored.&nbsp; Frank shows signs of having a Special psionic <BR>&gt; ability, seducing<BR>&gt; both the Hero and Heroine in a single night. <BR><BR>He can imitate voices? Hardly Uri Geller, is it?<BR><BR>Along with his <BR>&gt; ability to<BR>&gt; induce passion,<BR><BR>Agreed, unless Brad was in SERIOUS denial. Still, the implication of no psi<BR>abilities is&nbsp; that bisexuality is the default, and you just need to try it.<BR>I'll concede that one.<BR><BR>he must also have the Awareness talent <BR>&gt; Psionically Enhanced<BR>&gt; Endurance! <BR><BR>Nah, probably just plenty of exercise.<BR><BR>Riff-Raff and Magenta rarely speak to each other, <BR>&gt; suggesting<BR>&gt; Telepathy. <BR><BR>Maybe they were just trying to suggest that they WEREN'T working together.<BR><BR>Could the Castle have been a branch of the <BR>&gt; Psionics Institute?<BR><BR>Maybe the Transexuans were all Ancients in disguise. Hmm, Droyne in<BR>fishnets? &lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Did Brad and Janet just happen across it, or were they <BR>&gt; directed there?<BR><BR>Stranger things have happened. Then again, I suspect Evil Stevie and his<BR>Orbital Mind Control Lasers.<BR><BR>&nbsp; And<BR>&gt; what of the floor show?<BR><BR>Christopher Biggins went on to have a career as a minor televion personality<BR>in the UK. I don't know about the others.<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:35:31 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR><BR>John Watts writes:<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt;"Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a Good Blaster"<BR>&gt;-H. Solo, respected Solomani Philosopher<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Great quote, but wasn't Mr. Solo living in a galaxy "far away" from Sol?<BR><BR>:)<BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:37:10 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; John Watts writes:<BR>&gt; &lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;"Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a Good Blaster"<BR>&gt; &gt;-H. Solo, respected Solomani Philosopher<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Great quote, but wasn't Mr. Solo living in a galaxy <BR>&gt; "far away" from Sol?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Sadly, the Solomani Confederation Libraries print of 'A New Hope' was found,<BR>under closer examination by post-historians, to be missing the first 15<BR>seconds of playing time.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 09:49:56 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR><BR>Walt Smith wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; As I understand it, US law gives bounty hunters (at least ones<BR>&gt; going after folks who have jumped bail) a lot of powers/rights<BR>&gt; that someplace such as England probably doesn't.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The way I've heard it explained, "bounty hunters" who work for<BR>&gt; Bail Bondsmen have no more powers or rights granted to them by<BR>&gt; US Law than any other private citizen.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; When you sign a contract with a Bail Bondsman, you *yourself*<BR>&gt; give these powers and rights to him and his designated<BR>&gt; representatives.&nbsp; The contract specifies what actions you<BR>&gt; will permit them to perform to return you to the court if<BR>&gt; you jump bail.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It isn't breaking and entering if you've given someone<BR>&gt; blanket permission to enter every building you own.&nbsp; It<BR>&gt; isn't kidnapping if you've contracted with someone<BR>&gt; to take you from point A (wherever you are right now)<BR>&gt; to point B (standing before the court).<BR><BR>Actually, bail bondsmen have more far-reaching powers than that, derived<BR>from some 19th century laws and court decisions.<BR><BR>They have the right to enter _any_ building, up to and including B&amp;E if<BR>they have reason to suspect that a bail jumper is there. Recently a<BR>homeowner was shot to death by a bunch of heavily armed and armored<BR>'bail bondsmen'. They were wearing vests, he wasn't, so his return fire<BR>was ineffective.<BR><BR>They're on trial for murder, as it turns out that the bounty hunter<BR>stuff was just a ruse to commit armed robbery. <BR><BR>What isn't known at this time, is how many times they were _successful_<BR>at it, as people who get their homes broken into and their drugs, cash<BR>and other stuff stolen at gunpoint arent likely to report the crime.<BR><BR>All three of them were convicted felons. Interestingly enough, this<BR>doesn't mean they can't be 'bail enforcement agents'..._anyone_ can<BR>print up some business cards, buy a pair of handcuffs and go into<BR>business. There are no regulations, no licensing requirements, nada. All<BR>this meant was that they weren't supposed to be carrying the guns they<BR>had.<BR><BR>You gotta be licenced to freakin' cut hair or paint nails, but you too<BR>can break and enter for fun and profit overnight, or faster if you can<BR>get the business cards printed at a 'while-u-wait' printshop. <BR><BR>There have been other cases where people have been terrorized in their<BR>homes because a fugitive _used_ to live there. The police told them they<BR>have no recourse because what was done to them was legal.<BR><BR>At least you can sue the police if they pull a swat raid on your house<BR>with bad information.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:11:48 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:58:56 +0200<BR>&gt;From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;3) Akira<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Seminal Anime flick.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hmm, in anime id prefer something lighter. perhaps a Ghibli film like<BR>&gt;Mononoke, Nausica, Whisper of the Heart or Grave of the Fireflies (this<BR>&gt;one is so sad, i cry every time i see it)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;6) 200 Motels<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Frank Zappa and the Mother's of Invention turned out<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; this Rock&amp;Roll classic.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I always thought that this movie would be great if on drugs. Never tried<BR>&gt;any, though, so i cant really say<BR><BR><BR>You don't really need them as the movie provides a number of interesting<BR>drug like effects all on it's own. The mushrooms scene is quite accurate in<BR>it's representation of the visual effects of psilocybin (sp)<BR><BR>BTW Mr. Zappa was on record as being opposed to recreational drug use.<BR>Lucky thing for Frank that his fans didn't hold this against him and<BR>continued<BR>to buy his recordings, get high, and listen to them.<BR><BR>Dave Shayne<BR><BR>"Do you think that I'm crazy?<BR>Out of my mind?<BR>Do you think that I creep in the night<BR>And sleep in a phone booth?<BR><BR>Frank Zappa<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:24:05 +0300<BR>From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jussi_Kenkkil=E4?= &lt;Jussi.Kenkkila@helsinki.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: going off-list<BR><BR>To be able to fully concentrate on my master's thesis, I'm going to have to go off-list soon. If everything goes well I'll be back after few months. Been enjoining the posts, especially all the (insanely) brilliant ideas.<BR><BR>- -J2K<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:25:32 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>These lists look to much like people's personal faves.&nbsp; I think it would be much more fun if the vast majority of 20C movies to survive were absolute trash:&nbsp; sappy TV Movies of the Week, teen sexploitation, The Blair Witch Project, Mickey Rourke movies, etc.&nbsp; There's MGF (maximum gaming fun, for those not on the Glorantha Digest) potential in the image of Solomani purists holding up 'Porky's Revenge' as the apogee of Culture.<BR><BR>On a related note, Loren only mentioned 2-D movies, so we can therfore assume that most 20C 3-D movies DID survive, including "Jaws 3-D" and "Spacehunter: Adventures in the Forbidden Zone"!<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:40:33 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: going off-list<BR><BR>Jussi Kenkkil wrote:<BR>&gt; To be able to fully concentrate on my master's thesis, I'm <BR>&gt; going to have to go off-list soon. If everything goes well <BR>&gt; I'll be back after few months. Been enjoining the posts, <BR>&gt; especially all the (insanely) brilliant ideas.<BR><BR>You should tell your master to write his own damn thesis!<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 10:44:30 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Xboats don't have phones, a**hole<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR>&gt; BTW, what _is_ the Tech Level of the planet Transsexual, in the galaxy<BR>&gt; of Transylvania?&nbsp; TL 19+?&nbsp; I should think that it exceeds Imperial tech,<BR>&gt; given both the technology to teleport an entire mansion from one galaxy<BR>&gt; to another and the ability to build a handheld laser capable of shooting<BR>&gt; a beam of pure antimatter....<BR><BR>Well, then, I guess the tech level doesn't matter.<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:14:52 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller movie studio?<BR><BR>Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yeah, I've seen that.&nbsp; Pretty cute :)&nbsp; I think it's a GREAT way to get kids<BR>&gt; (and Steve Jackson of course ;) interested in film-making.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Of course, the equipment I've got access to or own is a bit more involved ;)<BR>&gt; Canon XL1 (mine)<BR>Sound Forge<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've also REALLY always wanted to get a Steadicam, but I don't have a spare<BR>&gt; $4k for the base video model after buying the XL1 :)<BR><BR>Actually their base video model is a lot less...<BR><BR>Their DV steadicam is only $1400<BR><BR>http://www.steadicam.com/store/pro_handheld/systems/dv.html<BR><BR>and their newest Jr model (which will support the XL1) is only $900<BR>($700 if you can live with a monochrome monitor)<BR><BR>http://www.steadicam.com/store/pro_handheld/systems/jr.html<BR><BR>Since the specs on your XL1 is that it weighs only 3 pounds that's<BR>within specs for either of these models.<BR><BR>Want a harness to work like the big boys?<BR><BR>Build one for your Steadicam Jr for $40:<BR><BR>http://people.a2000.nl/rpeperk/steadicam/index2.html<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 11:27:47 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Jim Vassilakos &lt;jimv@e2.empirenet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Guildsman #7 (fanzine)<BR><BR>Hi all... long time no post. Well, I've been busy at work on various<BR>projects, and one of these is the Guildsman reboot. The Guildsman is<BR>a small zine I used to run back in college. Nostalgia sort of got<BR>to me, and after peering out the airlock in the middle of jumpspace,<BR>I got the crazy idea that reviving the Guildsman would be a lot<BR>of fun. Oh, but I had forgotten just how much work it is! In any<BR>case, issue #7 is done. There is only one Traveller-related<BR>article, which is why I debated whether or not I should even post<BR>this to the TML. Hopefully the list will forgive me if this should<BR>be considered off-topic. However, for those who are intrigued,<BR>here's the table of contents for #7:<BR><BR>Spinning in Circles: History &amp; Analysis of TSR's Copyright Policies<BR>The Slavers of Thin-gala: Adventure for AD&amp;D<BR>Critical Hit Tables for AD&amp;D<BR>Disease: Minor Illnesses for AD&amp;D<BR>Creatures of Natahl: Minor Monsters for AD&amp;D<BR>Mage's Guild of Silverwolf for AD&amp;D<BR>Yori: World for Traveller<BR>Communication Within the Gaming Group<BR>Wiat's Oddities: One Day at the Viking Raid (Comic)<BR>Review: Guardians of Order's Tenchi Muyo! RPG<BR>Gamemaster's Hall of Shame: Monty Haul's Top 10 Cousins<BR>Zines: Overview of RPG Magazines &amp; Fanzines<BR>Gaming Shops of the Inland Empire &amp; Southern California<BR><BR>For a staple-bound hardcopy, send $4 to Jim Vassilakos, PO Box<BR>30036, San Bdno CA 92413-0036, USA (subscriptions are $16 for<BR>one year, that's 4 issues). Due to postage costs, I'll be taking<BR>a loss on the international subscriptions, but that's life.<BR><BR>Or you can download the PDF-version for free from <BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/8023/gman.htm<BR><BR>Why am I providing a free-PDF when I'm trying to sell hardcopies?<BR>Let's face it. Some folks are on tight budgets or are running out<BR>of closet/bookshelf space. Others prefer a hardcopy they can flip<BR>through while soaking in the jacuzzi. Whichever your preference,<BR>I just want to keep the magazine as accessible as possible. The<BR>idea here isn't to make money. It's to have fun putting out a zine.<BR><BR>If you'd like to contribute an article for the next issue, I would<BR>really like to publish more Traveller-related articles or even<BR>articles for any science-fiction RPG. I'm also looking for artwork.<BR>The tentative deadline for submissions for issue #8 is December 10th.<BR>I can't pay you for your submission, but if I do print your material,<BR>I'll send you a free hardcopy. If you have an idea for a submission<BR>and want to talk it over, feel free to send me email.<BR><BR>Many thanks. Now back to your regularly-scheduled mailing list. :-)<BR><BR>&nbsp; - Jim (jimvassila@aol.com / jimv@empirenet.com)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:44:18 +0100<BR>From: "owen_hughes" &lt;owen_hughes@ntlworld.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts (Meteor)<BR><BR>Dom wrote:<BR><BR>Hello Dom!<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;Speaking of missiles, it was interesting that they decided to buy<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;AMRAAM initially for the Typhoon (Eurofighter) with a future European<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;built missile to replace it. My gut feeling is that aside from the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;jobs side, the decision came to improve the export chance the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;aircraft.<BR>&gt; &gt;At last check, the RAF had decided to go with the Meteor instead of the<BR>&gt; &gt;AMRAAM, much to the chagrin of many people Stateside.<BR><BR>IIRC Meteor will be adopted by all six states currently taking Eurofighter,<BR>and is compatible with Rafale and Gripen.They settled for a Meteor, a BVRAAM<BR>(Beyond Visual Range Air to Air Missile) as this allows exportability of<BR>Eurofighter/Typhoon as a complete package, provides a totally European<BR>defence solution, is technologically superior to AMRAAM, and also helps to<BR>keep Raytheon (US missile giant with major market share) honest.<BR>The folks stateside _were_ mightily upset... &gt;:)<BR>(Apart from Boeing, one of the Meteor alliance partners...)<BR><BR>Swing by http://www.meteor-mbd.com/ There's a fair bit of info there.<BR><BR>&gt; ISTR that the AMRAAM is being used as an interim solution until<BR>&gt; Meteor is in service.<BR><BR>I'm not sure when Meteor's ISD but I believe it will be available as a day 1<BR>solution when Eurofighter is deployed.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;It was widely believed that MoD's decision to lease some C-17 Globemaster<BR>&gt; &gt;IIIs was suppose to be a consolation prize for not choosing an American<BR>&gt; &gt;missile.&nbsp; Then again, not many people in the world are building military<BR>&gt; &gt;transport aircraft like the Globemaster.<BR><BR>I think that's a stopgap until the European Future Large Aircraft is soreted<BR>out...<BR><BR>&gt; ObTrav: Would the Imperium see as much politicking around arms<BR>&gt; procurement? Would each of the ArchDukes be trying to influence for<BR>&gt; the suppliers in their sectors?<BR><BR>Based on the state of current defence contracting, I think so, and given the<BR>size of the Imperium, there'd probably be a hell of a lot of maneuvering and<BR>negotiation for reciprocal 'offset' deals - where you sweeten a contract by<BR>agreeing to buy a different product in return, particularly with fleet<BR>construction.<BR><BR>- -Owen.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:27:35 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>One of my favorites is a quote from Don Ameche', spoken softly and slowly<BR>with a HEAVY Italian accent; "Things Change" (from the movie of the same<BR>name.)<BR><BR>I just LOVE saying this to my PC's, with appropriate hand gestures and voice<BR>inflection. Talk about improvise, overcome and conquer &lt;Clint Eastwood in<BR>"Heartbreak Ridge"&gt;. They just hate hearing me say that in the middle of the<BR>*adventure*. &lt;weg&gt;<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 7:41 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR><BR>&lt;SNIPPED&gt;<BR>&gt; hmmm. what about idioms in the far future? will "hell" be a strong word in<BR>&gt; an imperium mostly consisting of beings with no history with christianity?<BR>&gt; in many sci-fi books expletetives are often of the type "what in the name<BR>of<BR>&gt; the core..." or&nbsp; "by the emperors bones!". partly to make the books more<BR>&gt; suited for minors, i suppose, but all the same -- with a different<BR>cultural<BR>&gt; background than the one we have in the (western) world, different<BR>&gt; expletetives are to be expected. what exepletetives do aslan, vargr,<BR>hivers,<BR>&gt; droyne, use? (for droyne, might "uncasted" to be an insult?) which are<BR>your<BR>&gt; favorite travelleresque expletetives?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; /tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:36:47 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: SF Bounty Hunters (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3178)<BR><BR>Smart, David J (David) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; An interesting site for the basics on bounty hunting in the<BR>&gt; US is:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.onworld.com/BHO/index.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It's not the "definitive" site on the subject but there's<BR>&gt; worthwhile thoughts there.<BR><BR>There is a great (although my wife would certainly dispute this assessment)<BR>SF movie involving a bounty hunter in a high-tech world which airs on the<BR>SciFi channel periodically. I think it's called _Zeram_ or something close<BR>to that. The Japanese heroine and her AI computer sidekick use all sorts of<BR>exotic advanced weapons and other technology to capture the villainous<BR>Zeram, which is a bizarre alien with all sorts of wierd powers. Good stuff.<BR>It also provides a good idea of what high-TL stuff could be like in<BR>Traveller.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:46:06 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>Second! (or third or fourth, whatever) It gave me an excuse to go to "Micro<BR>Center" and pick up one of their new Logitech Internet Keyboards that they<BR>had on sale for $14.95. At least that's what I told the wife... I didn't get<BR>the *official* tally but I believe it was six (6) from that one post!<BR>Automatically an "Ace".<BR><BR>Congratulations Loren, it's quasi-official. I believe the keeper of the<BR>"Keyboard-Kill" list has to confirm it to make it really official....<BR><BR>I just went to the "Base Exchange" (BX) over at Hanscom AFB to buy me some<BR>brown leather dye for my nose. I've found it really hard to get the "feel<BR>and smell" effects from my butt smooching electronically. This should help<BR>me out in the *realism* department....<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>P.S.<BR>&lt;NO SPOILERS&gt;<BR>I just watched "Destination Mars" on DVD. All in all a pretty good movie. A<BR>little sappy, good visuals, ending was so...so...I would say it would be<BR>enjoyable to rent it. I'm just glad I waited for the rental and didn't go to<BR>the theaters spending the big bucks for the pleasure.<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Jesse DeGraff" &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 2:18 AM<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Aye!<BR>&gt; Jesse<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Smart, David J<BR>&gt; &gt; (David)<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 2:47 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Thom Harris posted:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; BRUCE!!!! You too, I think that makes four (4) keyboards for<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Loren on that<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; one post.....Damn near an *ace* on one outing.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; - ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: "Bruce Johnson" &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 12:44 PM<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: Re: New FAQ addition<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; I have transcribed the Starship Troopers discussion for<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;snip&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;SPLORT&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Actually I think the count is up to 6. Therefore...<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;/megaphone mode on&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; HEAR YE! HEAR YE! DUE TO POSTS ABOVE AND BEYOND THE CALL,<BR>&gt; &gt; WHICH HAVE RESULTED IN THE REACTIVE PROJECTION OF FLUIDS<BR>&gt; &gt; THROUGHOUT TML MEMBERS' HOMES AND DEVASTATION OF KEYBOARDS<BR>&gt; &gt; ACROSS THE WEB, LOREN WISEMAN IS HEREBY NOMINATED FOR THE<BR>&gt; &gt; TML'S "TOP GUN OF KEYBOARD KILLS" AWARD.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ALL IN FAVOR?<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;/megaphone mode off&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;/listening mode on&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3179<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (rly-zc03.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.3]) by air-zc04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:51:41 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:50:54 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id PAA33063;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:47:58 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:46:12 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id PAA33007<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:46:12 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 15:46:12 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010181946.PAA33007@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3179<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3180</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3180<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR>Re: SF Bounty Hunters<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts (Meteor)<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Transylvania Tech<BR>Re: Transylvania Tech<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: How many starports? (was Re: Starport administration)<BR>Re: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR>Re: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts (now in danger of being almost completely on-topic)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:52:33 -0700<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR><BR>That ain't a "real" Steadicam rig though ;)&nbsp; Ever tried to run an XL-1 or<BR>ADJ-200 one armed for any length of time?&nbsp; Don't know about you, but I'm not<BR>built like Ah-nold :D&nbsp; The Steadicam Jr, Steadicam DV, the Glidecams 1000,<BR>2000, 3000, &amp; 4000, and others of a similar bent like the Steadytracker all<BR>rely on your own arm to provide the spring balancing and abosorbtion of<BR>movement shock.&nbsp; With the mini lightweight cameras of today those are just<BR>fine, but even with the wrist bracket of the GC3000 &amp; 4000 your arm, hand,<BR>and wrist get real tired real fast.&nbsp; You can also get a vest and arm for the<BR>Steadicam DV, but for the same price I'd rather get a body-mounted rig from<BR>Hollywood Lite.<BR><BR>But luckily these days there are several manufacturers of body mounted rigs<BR>that give you a less expensive alternative to the full-blown Steadicam rigs.<BR>Steadicam makes their Mini and goes up from there, Glidecam makes has their<BR>V-8, and Hollywood Lite makes a clone of the Mini called the G.T. Series.<BR>There's also a couple other European and South American manufacturers as<BR>well.<BR><BR>If you're interested in more info, here's some URL's including a link to a<BR>homebuilt stabilizers page for you do-it-yourself'ers ;)&nbsp; There's plenty of<BR>folks out there that have built their own full rigs, and there's plans shown<BR>for building Steadicam Jr. &amp; Glidecam 1000 type handheld stabilizers.<BR><BR>www.steadicam.com<BR>www.glidecam.com<BR>http://hollywoodlite.com/New_Generation/Welcome_to_Hox.html<BR>http://w1.226.telia.com/~u22604215/menu.html<BR><BR>I've also toyed with the idea of seeing if my uncle would build one for me<BR>under contract.&nbsp; He's easily one of the best custom fabricators I've ever<BR>seen.&nbsp; He used to run the Roger Mears Budweiser off-road team, and did<BR>custom fab work for Canepa Designs.<BR><BR>Best,<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:15 AM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller movie studio?<BR><BR><BR>Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Yeah, I've seen that.&nbsp; Pretty cute :)&nbsp; I think it's a GREAT way to get<BR>kids<BR>&gt; (and Steve Jackson of course ;) interested in film-making.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Of course, the equipment I've got access to or own is a bit more involved<BR>;)<BR>&gt; Canon XL1 (mine)<BR>Sound Forge<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've also REALLY always wanted to get a Steadicam, but I don't have a<BR>spare<BR>&gt; $4k for the base video model after buying the XL1 :)<BR><BR>Actually their base video model is a lot less...<BR><BR>Their DV steadicam is only $1400<BR><BR>http://www.steadicam.com/store/pro_handheld/systems/dv.html<BR><BR>and their newest Jr model (which will support the XL1) is only $900<BR>($700 if you can live with a monochrome monitor)<BR><BR>http://www.steadicam.com/store/pro_handheld/systems/jr.html<BR><BR>Since the specs on your XL1 is that it weighs only 3 pounds that's<BR>within specs for either of these models.<BR><BR>Want a harness to work like the big boys?<BR><BR>Build one for your Steadicam Jr for $40:<BR><BR>http://people.a2000.nl/rpeperk/steadicam/index2.html<BR><BR>- --<BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:13:09 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: SF Bounty Hunters<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:36:47 -0700<BR>&gt;From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: SF Bounty Hunters (was Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3178)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;There is a great (although my wife would certainly dispute this assessment)<BR>&gt;SF movie involving a bounty hunter in a high-tech world which airs on the<BR>&gt;SciFi channel periodically. I think it's called _Zeram_ or something close<BR>&gt;to that. The Japanese heroine and her AI computer sidekick use all sorts of<BR>&gt;exotic advanced weapons and other technology to capture the villainous<BR>&gt;Zeram, which is a bizarre alien with all sorts of wierd powers. Good stuff.<BR>&gt;It also provides a good idea of what high-TL stuff could be like in<BR>&gt;Traveller.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>That would be 'Zeiram.'&nbsp; And there's an animated OAV series that goes with <BR>it; I'm not sure which came first, 'Zeiram,' or 'Iria: Zeiram, the <BR>Animation.'&nbsp; IMO live-action 'anime' is about as good as typical grade-B SF <BR>fare, but the animated movie is really pretty good.<BR><BR>Regarding the ObTrav, you're right, it has a very unique atmosphere to it <BR>as far as the hardware designs go.&nbsp; Sometimes technical designs in <BR>Traveller seem like they rolled off of next week's assembly line down the <BR>street.&nbsp; The hardware in Iria looks like it rolled off next *decade's* <BR>assembly line... on another planet entirely.<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:13:15 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>I'm still trying to come up with a list. But I think the "The Magic<BR>Christian" will be on it. I'm *tempted* to put in "Casino Royale", but<BR>that's a bit much...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:15:22 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Here's my list, in no particular order, for ones I'd *like* <BR>&gt; to have survive:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1) Kelly's Heroes.&nbsp; When I first showed this movie to my<BR>&gt; gaming group, they were amazed - they thought it was one<BR>&gt; of the best "bunch of gamers on the screen" movies they'd<BR>&gt; ever seen.<BR><BR>Hadn't quite thought of it that way, but you're right...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:39:23 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts (Meteor)<BR><BR>At 15:46 -0400 18/10/00, "owen_hughes" &lt;owen_hughes@ntlworld.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Hello Dom!<BR><BR>Hi Owen!<BR>&gt;I'm not sure when Meteor's ISD but I believe it will be available as a day 1<BR>&gt;solution when Eurofighter is deployed.<BR><BR>I thought Typhoon was being delivered from start of 2001?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; ObTrav: Would the Imperium see as much politicking around arms<BR>&gt; &gt; procurement? Would each of the ArchDukes be trying to influence for<BR>&gt; &gt; the suppliers in their sectors?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Based on the state of current defence contracting, I think so, and given the<BR>&gt;size of the Imperium, there'd probably be a hell of a lot of maneuvering and<BR>&gt;negotiation for reciprocal 'offset' deals - where you sweeten a contract by<BR>&gt;agreeing to buy a different product in return, particularly with fleet<BR>&gt;construction.<BR><BR>Hmm, so there would be scope for a company like Interstellarms to set <BR>up plants in all the Domains to get as much back up as possible...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:30:04 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Well, I know that 2001 has survived (see TNE) so:<BR><BR>2010<BR>Fallen<BR>Strange Days<BR>Wings of Desire<BR>Far Away So Close<BR>Blade Runner<BR>Gladiator (I know it's recent, but I really enjoyed it)<BR>Dune<BR><BR>I think I'll have a ponder on the last two...<BR><BR>Dom<BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:42:41 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Transylvania Tech<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:38:18<BR>&gt; From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;BTW, what _is_ the Tech Level of the planet Transsexual, in the galaxy<BR>&gt; &gt;of Transylvania?&nbsp; TL 19+?&nbsp; I should think that it exceeds Imperial tech,<BR>&gt; &gt;given both the technology to teleport an entire mansion from one galaxy<BR>&gt; &gt;to another and the ability to build a handheld laser capable of shooting<BR>&gt; &gt;a beam of pure antimatter....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Antimatter is TL17, but since Frank didn't vanish, we can't call it a<BR>&gt; disintegrator.&nbsp; Also, when the castle took off (there goes the<BR>&gt; neighborhood) it appeared to be a simple CG drive.<BR><BR>Douglas, I'm surprised at you!&nbsp; *Of course* the castle lifts off on CG;<BR>you don't expect them to engage their J30,000 drive for the jump to<BR>Transexual inside the 100D limit, do you?<BR><BR>&gt; More clues appear in the creation of Rocky.&nbsp; Frank obviously has access to<BR>&gt; advanced medical techniques, since he split Eddie's brain between the two<BR>&gt; of them.<BR><BR>Beyond this, Dr. Scott's odyssey through the castle in his wheelchair<BR>seems to indicate extremely advanced tractor/repulsor technology.<BR><BR>&gt; I'd call it TL 17 - 18.&nbsp; With a severe drop in communications technology.<BR>&gt; After all, "Castles don't have telephones, a**hole!"<BR><BR>I don't know; after all, it's quite apparent that castles do have video<BR>intercoms.&nbsp; I imagine they just haven't bothered to patch into our<BR>primitive comm network.&nbsp; And "Castles don't have phones, but they do have<BR>meson communicators, a**hole!" lacks the punch to catch on at screenings,<BR>I'd imagine.<BR><BR>&gt; Perhaps Transylvania has access to Ancient technology, which is why<BR>&gt; Riff-Raff found their interstellar drive (which erroneously refers to as a<BR>&gt; Time Warp) to be so astounding.&nbsp; It is obvious that their drive isn't<BR>&gt; perfected, since the effects listed in the song include "the blackness<BR>&gt; would hit me" and "the void would be calling."&nbsp; Perhaps the Transylvanians<BR>&gt; are just very sensitive to jumpspace, causing them to become "spaced out on<BR>&gt; sensation" producing a state not unlike that of a person taking sedatives.<BR><BR>Though apparently their drive tech allows much smaller jump-capable ships;<BR>Columbia's testimony indicates that the effect can be obtained in a<BR>vehicle as small as a pickup truck -- which she found surprising,<BR>bolstering your argument about found rather than developed technology.<BR><BR>&gt; Riff-Raff and Magenta rarely speak to each other, suggesting<BR>&gt; Telepathy.<BR><BR>It should be noted that this is obviously of very limited range, and<BR>requires elbow contact to function optimally.<BR><BR>&gt; Could the Castle have been a branch of the Psionics Institute?&nbsp; Did Brad<BR>&gt; and Janet just happen across it, or were they directed there?&nbsp; And what<BR>&gt; of<BR><BR>Your neck!<BR><BR>&gt; the floor show?<BR><BR>Oh, that too.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:54:18 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Transylvania Tech<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:08:52 +0100<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Time for Occam's Razor!<BR><BR>Surely Occam's Nair would be more appropriate in this application?<BR><BR>&gt; Yes, the Transexuans seem to be rather lackadaisical in their<BR>&gt; application of scientific terminology. The lack of annihilative<BR>&gt; explosions and Hawking radiation seems to suggest that the 'antimatter'<BR>&gt; beams are actually a form of neural disruptor. Frank was essentially<BR>&gt; undamaged by the hit from the AM beam. Plasma or anykind of enhanced<BR>&gt; radiation would likely leave surface damage, but Frank didn't even get<BR>&gt; ladders in his fishnets. <BR><BR>To me, this says more about the hardiness of Transexuans (and their<BR>hosiery) than about the technology of Riff's weapon. <BR><BR>Picture how hard it would be to run a pair of TL-20 stockings...the mind<BR>boggles.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; It is obvious that their drive isn't<BR>&gt; &gt; perfected, since the effects listed in the song include "the blackness<BR>&gt; &gt; would hit me" and "the void would be calling."&nbsp; Perhaps the <BR>&gt; &gt; Transylvanians<BR>&gt; &gt; are just very sensitive to jumpspace, causing them to become <BR>&gt; &gt; "spaced out on<BR>&gt; &gt; sensation" producing a state not unlike that of a person <BR>&gt; &gt; taking sedatives.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, a society that invented the garter belt before it invented the wheel<BR>&gt; likely isn't too strong on the technical skills. Besides, they probably<BR>&gt; *like* it that way. <BR><BR>Absolutely.&nbsp; It is made quite clear that despite (or because of) its side<BR>effects, they are all quite prepared to do it again.<BR><BR>By the way, calling their jump drive tech the "Time Warp" is *not*<BR>inaccurate, as Douglas claimed.&nbsp; It merely shows they have a better grasp<BR>of the effects of FTL on causality than most TMLers. :)&nbsp; One should also<BR>note that their tech, incredibly enough, allows observation of normal<BR>space while in jump -- but not the reverse.&nbsp; This is a huge advantage.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; he must also have the Awareness talent <BR>&gt; &gt; Psionically Enhanced<BR>&gt; &gt; Endurance! <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Nah, probably just plenty of exercise.<BR><BR>Nope, the movie makes quite clear that exercise is a spectator sport for<BR>Frank. :)<BR><BR>&gt; Maybe the Transexuans were all Ancients in disguise. Hmm, Droyne in<BR>&gt; fishnets? &lt;shudder&gt;<BR><BR>Oh my god...my mind just went from there, to Droyne on stage, to how<BR>they'd get parts, to...the casting couch, of course.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:03:39 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Speaking of TNE, we know that Casablanca survives too. So those who pick it<BR>may want to rechoose.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "SD Mooney" &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 1:30 PM<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Well, I know that 2001 has survived (see TNE) so:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2010<BR>&gt; Fallen<BR>&gt; Strange Days<BR>&gt; Wings of Desire<BR>&gt; Far Away So Close<BR>&gt; Blade Runner<BR>&gt; Gladiator (I know it's recent, but I really enjoyed it)<BR>&gt; Dune<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I think I'll have a ponder on the last two...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dom<BR>&gt; ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&gt; "We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>&gt; can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>&gt; http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:18:00 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: How many starports? (was Re: Starport administration)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) sez:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; On the gripping hand, you WILL typically have one and only one<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; traffic control facility that oversees the system as a whole,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; though they will talk to a great many local traffic controls that<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; oversee individual ports, moons, etc. depending on the development<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; level of the system. This Central Traffic Control will likely be<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; close to the center of the Imperial Port Authority, and be directly<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; under the Portmaster's command.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Nope. Can't be done. Keep in mind that the *minimum* lag time<BR>&gt;&gt; between Earth and Mars is 5 minutes *one way*. The maximum would be<BR>&gt;&gt; almost 22 minutes one way *if* the Sun wasn't in the way. Relaying<BR>&gt;&gt; via a third planet that has a line of sight on both Earth &amp; Mars<BR>&gt;&gt; will kick the lag up over 30 minutes.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Earth-Pluto lags are around 5 *hours* one way.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; So that means you *can't* have a trasffic control that "oversees"<BR>&gt;&gt; the whole system except in the broadest possible sense of the term.<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; In a system with any reasonable Imperial presense, some portion of<BR>&gt; the "starport" WILL function as a central clearinghouse for all<BR>&gt; starship movement in-system, even if they didn't collect the<BR>&gt; information themselves. Even hours old, this information is useful,<BR>&gt; and may be a part of the SPA mandate. "Know what's going on in your<BR>&gt; assigned system, even if the inhabitants don't."<BR><BR>As I said, that's not how "oversse" is normally used. *Monitor* is the<BR>word that would fit what you just described. "Oversee" implies a<BR>greater degree of control than is going to be practical.<BR><BR>BTW, one of the images that always sticks with me from C.J. Cherryh's<BR>"Pride of Chanur" and the sequels was the system plots after jump.<BR>Including the display showing the time until their "jump flash" reached<BR>various places, and how soon various messages would reach places, and<BR>how long until messages could reach *them* from those places.<BR><BR>It'd be a real *bear* to design the user interface for such a plot. And<BR>it would take real skill to use it in a way that helped you rather than<BR>confused the hell out of you. <BR><BR>But I think it'd be necessary. And an "online" Traveller campaign could<BR>use something like that. Both at the system level, and at the sector &amp;<BR>higher level. <BR><BR>That "strategic" display would let you try to track/predict (depending<BR>on whether you are the GM or a player) what news had gotten where via<BR>jump. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:37:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; As I understand it, US law gives bounty hunters (at least ones <BR>&gt; going after folks who have jumped bail) a lot of powers/rights <BR>&gt; that someplace such as England probably doesn't.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The way I've heard it explained, "bounty hunters" who work for<BR>&gt; Bail Bondsmen have no more powers or rights granted to them by<BR>&gt; US Law than any other private citizen.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; When you sign a contract with a Bail Bondsman, you *yourself*<BR>&gt; give these powers and rights to him and his designated<BR>&gt; representatives.&nbsp; The contract specifies what actions you<BR>&gt; will permit them to perform to return you to the court if<BR>&gt; you jump bail.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It isn't breaking and entering if you've given someone<BR>&gt; blanket permission to enter every building you own.&nbsp; It<BR>&gt; isn't kidnapping if you've contracted with someone<BR>&gt; to take you from point A (wherever you are right now)<BR>&gt; to point B (standing before the court).<BR><BR>True enough, but there's the not so trivial matter of the courts ruling<BR>that it is legal for you to give up those rights.<BR><BR>&gt; Having not had the pleasure of needing to deal with<BR>&gt; a bail bondsman, I have yet to check this information<BR>&gt; against an actual contract.&nbsp; Can anyone confirm this?<BR><BR>No need. What you said matches fairly well with a Discovery Channel<BR>program on bounty hunters the other night (hey, I was bored! And<BR>besides, it was research, yeah that's it, research...)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:40:49 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Bounty Hunters (was re: Starport Administration)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Walt Smith wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; As I understand it, US law gives bounty hunters (at least ones<BR>&gt;&gt; going after folks who have jumped bail) a lot of powers/rights<BR>&gt;&gt; that someplace such as England probably doesn't.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; The way I've heard it explained, "bounty hunters" who work for<BR>&gt;&gt; Bail Bondsmen have no more powers or rights granted to them by<BR>&gt;&gt; US Law than any other private citizen.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; When you sign a contract with a Bail Bondsman, you *yourself*<BR>&gt;&gt; give these powers and rights to him and his designated<BR>&gt;&gt; representatives.&nbsp; The contract specifies what actions you<BR>&gt;&gt; will permit them to perform to return you to the court if<BR>&gt;&gt; you jump bail.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; It isn't breaking and entering if you've given someone<BR>&gt;&gt; blanket permission to enter every building you own.&nbsp; It<BR>&gt;&gt; isn't kidnapping if you've contracted with someone<BR>&gt;&gt; to take you from point A (wherever you are right now)<BR>&gt;&gt; to point B (standing before the court).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually, bail bondsmen have more far-reaching powers than that, derived<BR>&gt; from some 19th century laws and court decisions.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; They have the right to enter _any_ building, up to and including B&amp;E if<BR>&gt; they have reason to suspect that a bail jumper is there. Recently a<BR>&gt; homeowner was shot to death by a bunch of heavily armed and armored<BR>&gt; 'bail bondsmen'. They were wearing vests, he wasn't, so his return fire<BR>&gt; was ineffective.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; They're on trial for murder, as it turns out that the bounty hunter<BR>&gt; stuff was just a ruse to commit armed robbery. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; What isn't known at this time, is how many times they were _successful_<BR>&gt; at it, as people who get their homes broken into and their drugs, cash<BR>&gt; and other stuff stolen at gunpoint arent likely to report the crime.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; All three of them were convicted felons. Interestingly enough, this<BR>&gt; doesn't mean they can't be 'bail enforcement agents'..._anyone_ can<BR>&gt; print up some business cards, buy a pair of handcuffs and go into<BR>&gt; business. There are no regulations, no licensing requirements, nada. All<BR>&gt; this meant was that they weren't supposed to be carrying the guns they<BR>&gt; had.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You gotta be licenced to freakin' cut hair or paint nails, but you too<BR>&gt; can break and enter for fun and profit overnight, or faster if you can<BR>&gt; get the business cards printed at a 'while-u-wait' printshop. <BR><BR>In Oregon, they have to have the local police with them when they make<BR>an arrest.<BR><BR>&gt; There have been other cases where people have been terrorized in their<BR>&gt; homes because a fugitive _used_ to live there. The police told them they<BR>&gt; have no recourse because what was done to them was legal.<BR><BR>Not true. You can sue anybody for anything. The fact that it was legal<BR>merely means that you can't file criminal charges against them.<BR><BR>&gt; At least you can sue the police if they pull a swat raid on your house<BR>&gt; with bad information.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; University of Arizona<BR>&gt; College of Pharmacy<BR>&gt; Information Technology Group<BR>&gt;<BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:46:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Worlds (usually only High Pop) can have more than one _starport_. Terra has<BR>&gt; three.<BR><BR>I assume you mean Kennedy, Baikonur, and the ESA facility on the north<BR>coast of South America?<BR><BR>There's at least one other (Chinese). And I'm pretty sure that<BR>*several* other countries have facilities that they've launched<BR>satellites from. <BR><BR>Technically, the US has 2 1/2 ports. Kennedy, Vandenberg, and White Sands.<BR><BR>As far as I know, only Kennedy and Baikonur have ever been used for<BR>manned launches though.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:52:08 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; ...or with swedish idioms: you will get owls in the loft.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; hmmm. what about idioms in the far future? will "hell" be a <BR>&gt;&gt; strong word in<BR>&gt;&gt; an imperium mostly consisting of beings with no history with <BR>&gt;&gt; christianity?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Red zone, maybe?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; in many sci-fi books expletetives are often of the type "what <BR>&gt;&gt; in the name of<BR>&gt;&gt; the core..." or&nbsp; "by the emperors bones!".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I guess spacers might have referances to misjumps. With the general autonomy<BR>&gt; and delegative structure of the Imperium I'd suggest that referances to the<BR>&gt; Emperor are less likely. Natually, local slang depends on planetary<BR>&gt; government styles and religions.<BR><BR>Any "spacer" is apt to use "malf" (short for "malfunction") as a swear<BR>word. <BR><BR>"... malfing piece of unrecycled garbage..."<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; with a different cultural<BR>&gt;&gt; background than the one we have in the (western) world, different<BR>&gt;&gt; expletetives are to be expected. what exepletetives do aslan, <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Something about lacking honour, running away, being puny. Actual insults,<BR>&gt; however, are an art form, so there are unlikely to generic insults.<BR><BR>Alas references to family and lineage. Think "Spanish nobles". <BR>"... su madre!"<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; vargr,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; In a charsma-based social structure, the worst insult is likely to be<BR>&gt; 'Loser.'<BR><BR>"Do I know you?" &lt;eg&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Sport: Sir, the jump-drive is failing to engage. The jump grid is fused.<BR>&gt; Leader: Electronics! Technician, fix it, fix it now!<BR>&gt; Technician(rolling eyes): Yes sir, as a technician I can certainly replace a<BR>&gt; jump grid in while we're in combat. No problem at all.<BR><BR>Gee, was Scotty trained by Droyne? :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:59:43 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Isn't there also a standard astronomy text book that provides a similar map<BR>&gt; ?<BR>&gt; I know a friend of mine doing Astronomy once showed me a book with something<BR>&gt; like teh Universe map in it only at different ranges.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; He used it to creat a three-D rotatable display of the local 40 light year<BR>&gt; volume.<BR>&gt; I still have a copy of the code and executable somewhere, the original<BR>&gt; version was DOS-based so even Leonard could probably use it.&lt;grin&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Let me know if you want a copy and I'll mail it. If there's enough demand<BR>&gt; I'll put it on my<BR>&gt; web-site.<BR><BR>I'd like a copy. And what's the code written in? If it's Pascal or<BR>BASIC, I can probably recompile it for OS/2.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 22:46:11 +0100<BR>From: "owen_hughes" &lt;owen_hughes@ntlworld.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts (now in danger of being almost completely on-topic)<BR><BR>&gt; Hi Owen!<BR><BR>Hello! How's things?<BR><BR>&gt; I thought Typhoon was being delivered from start of 2001?<BR><BR>LOL! They wish! :)<BR><BR>According to the BAe site there are seven airframes currently in service for<BR>technical trials and evaluation/proving type stuff... I think 2005 or<BR>thereabouts is probably more likely for front-line ISD.<BR><BR>&gt; Hmm, so there would be scope for a company like Interstellarms to set<BR>&gt; up plants in all the Domains to get as much back up as possible...<BR><BR>If the military procurement for the Imperium is decentralised (Err... is it?<BR>I'm guessing the logistics of determining common military requirements is<BR>beyond even a TL15 culture, particularly one spread across 11000+ worlds),<BR>it would most likely reduce the number of regional contracts that they would<BR>lose, or have to negotiate offset concessions with other defence contractors<BR>(potentially reducing profits). It would make exceptionally good sense to be<BR>postioned close to market, and to develop a regional structure that could<BR>better serve the differing needs of it's customers.<BR>I guess that given the time/distance between decentralised operations,<BR>there'd be a lot of duplication of effort, but a breakthrough design that<BR>takes a year to get from the lab in Core to the factory in the Marches<BR>probably isn't a breakthrough by the time it gets there...<BR><BR>- -O.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3180<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (rly-ye04.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.201]) by air-ye01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:51:28 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:50:58 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id RAA40481;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:48:40 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:46:19 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id RAA40412<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:46:19 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:46:19 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010182146.RAA40412@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3180<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; Wednesday, October 18 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3181<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Traveller stories<BR>Re: Traveller stories<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: Traveller stories<BR>Re: Name Generators<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re: Name Generators<BR>re:Is The Digest Working OK?<BR>Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: Transylvania Tech<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Danny Kaye<BR>Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Starport administration<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>re: Outreach - Was: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Is The Digest Working OK?<BR>Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>Re: Name Generators<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:58:12 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Bernie McGeehan &lt;einreb62@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>I think this should help you out:<BR><BR>http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html<BR><BR>3D Starmaps, by the almost-famous Wincehll Chung (yeah<BR>that Winchell Chung). Very cool stuff here.<BR><BR>- --- Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Isn't there also a standard astronomy text book<BR>&gt; that provides a similar map<BR>&gt; &gt; ?<BR>&gt; &gt; I know a friend of mine doing Astronomy once<BR>&gt; showed me a book with something<BR>&gt; &gt; like teh Universe map in it only at different<BR>&gt; ranges.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; He used it to creat a three-D rotatable display of<BR>&gt; the local 40 light year<BR>&gt; &gt; volume.<BR>&gt; &gt; I still have a copy of the code and executable<BR>&gt; somewhere, the original<BR>&gt; &gt; version was DOS-based so even Leonard could<BR>&gt; probably use it.&lt;grin&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Let me know if you want a copy and I'll mail it.<BR>&gt; If there's enough demand<BR>&gt; &gt; I'll put it on my<BR>&gt; &gt; web-site.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd like a copy. And what's the code written in? If<BR>&gt; it's Pascal or<BR>&gt; BASIC, I can probably recompile it for OS/2.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>"I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art."&nbsp; &nbsp; me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:48:56 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Traveller stories<BR><BR>Reading a post in another newsgroup remided me of a couple of Heinlein<BR>short stories that are worth tracking down just to get an idea of how<BR>attitudes can shift. <BR><BR>"It's Great To Be Back"<BR>(I think this can be found in "The Green Hills of Earth")<BR><BR>"Columbus Was a Dope"<BR>(not sure which collection this was in)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:48:05 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller stories<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;"Columbus Was a Dope"<BR>&gt;(not sure which collection this was in)<BR><BR>'The Menace from Earth' (currently in-print from Baen, IIRC)<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:05:23 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; 2D will be *terribly* cluttered.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And 2D or 3d, it'll be *way* too inaccurate beyond maybe 40-50 LY.<BR>&gt; Remember that most stars are red dwarfs. They can't be *seen* at those<BR>&gt; distances. <BR><BR>I'm not terribly concerned about it being cluttered or even inaccurate.&nbsp; I<BR>basically just need something that I can use to do up a 8.5"x11" map.&nbsp; I can<BR>even leave out a lot of stars if needed.&nbsp; Sounds like it's going to be even <BR>further out than I'd guessed though.<BR><BR>&gt; But there are several databases available on the web. I don't remember<BR>&gt; which ones are out there, but someone on the list can refer you to them.<BR><BR>When last I had time to work on this I'd found a couple of different<BR>programs, and even managed to locate most of the stars I need in the one<BR>(unfortunatly couldn't figure out how to get it to output the info).<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I've got the following stars that I need to identify on the map (some of<BR>&gt; &gt; which may be fictional).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Earth<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Earth is a planet. *Sol* is the star. :-)<BR><BR>Hey, give me a break :^) I was in a hurry yesteryday and just copied the list I<BR>had, that was what the source material listed :^)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Ensis<BR>&gt; &gt; Unukalhai<BR>&gt; &gt; Algenubi<BR>&gt; &gt; Alhena<BR>&gt; &gt; Dorsum<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; These don't ring any bells. Also, Astronomers rarely use the sort of<BR>&gt; names you have listed. They tend to use constellation based names<BR>&gt; (Alpha Centauri, Zeta Reticuli, 57 Bootes, etc) or catalog numbers (ie<BR>&gt; the number the star was assigned in some catalog of stars &amp; positions).<BR><BR>IIRC, based on my research a few months ago if you look for systems with<BR>names like that you can find at least some of these.<BR><BR>&gt; For stuff within 30-40 LY, the Starforce: Alpha Centauri map and the<BR>&gt; Traveller: 2300 or 2300 AD maps will do a good job. Idon't know where<BR>&gt; my 2300 stuff is, but since you are local, I might be persuaded to loan<BR>&gt; you my Starforce map.<BR><BR>It looks like those are two near in for what I need.&nbsp; I'll have a look for<BR>my SpaceMaster book and Map, as I recall it covers a good distance.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Zane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:05:55 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller stories<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Traveller stories<BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:48:56 PST<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Reading a post in another newsgroup remided me of a couple of Heinlein<BR>&gt;short stories that are worth tracking down just to get an idea of how<BR>&gt;attitudes can shift.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"It's Great To Be Back"<BR>&gt;(I think this can be found in "The Green Hills of Earth")<BR><BR>You are correct. It's in the Green Hills of Earth, although it's not one of <BR>the better ones, IMO. Don't get me wrong: they're all good.<BR><BR>Personally, I see Space Jockey as one of the best examples of what a <BR>spacecraft pilot can have to go through. In neither it nor Traveller do <BR>computers play a huge role, making it even more applicable.<BR><BR>Another neat plot hook from GHoE is in the Long Night: what if Johnny <BR>Dalquist hadn't stopped the bombing? Earth might have to send mercenaries in <BR>to prevent further damage.<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Columbus Was a Dope"<BR>&gt;(not sure which collection this was in)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt;leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:13:30 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Lady Jestyr" &lt;jestyr@shadowrun.html.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;shadowrn@dumpshock.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:32 PM<BR>Subject: Name Generators<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The best name generator I've found is Gurth's 'Game Name', available<BR>at<BR>&gt; http://plastic.dumpshock.com under 'Software'. Lots of different<BR>languages<BR>&gt; covered, and it's simple easy software. Highly recommended.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Lady Jestyr<BR><BR>I just had a look at the above program, and yes it is nice and easy,<BR>though I keep getting a type mis-match error using the russian.nam<BR>file...<BR><BR>BTW, my spreadsheet has just been updated to v1.03 from v1.02.<BR><BR>The zipfile is slightly larger now (1,207kb... Even though the Excel<BR>file has shrunk by about 1MB) but bear in mid that it generates 20 Male<BR>and 20 Female names at a time, from a list of 1219 Male, 4223 Female,<BR>and 88,799 Last names...<BR><BR>Here's a sample of the names generated by the single press of the F9<BR>key...:<BR><BR>Male:<BR>TRENT KIMM<BR>STANLEY MENEUS<BR>ROD TIPPIE<BR>JEFFERY MCGLOSTER<BR>EDWARD SCHOFELL<BR>DEWITT ZABROCKI<BR>DEWEY SWARTS<BR>ALFREDO DURBORAW<BR>LAZARO STEVENSON<BR>KURT DEDERICH<BR>WALTER MOSEBACH<BR>STEVIE OQUENDO<BR>REYES EANNI<BR>TYRELL MAINE<BR>JEWEL INLOW<BR>GERALD KELTY<BR>KEVEN GROSVENOR<BR>REYNALDO TREXLER<BR>GALE TASLER<BR>WALTON REVERMANN<BR><BR>Female:<BR>SHARON FORTUN<BR>OLGA TURNBOW<BR>SHERA LANDUCCI<BR>NICHOLE ZEYADEH<BR>TAMAR CASHMORE<BR>JOVITA FARLESS<BR>CLORINDA DESVERGNES<BR>ANJELICA WIDDER<BR>ELAINA CAMPMAN<BR>REINA IWASKO<BR>LUCIENNE MCQUILLAN<BR>EUGENIA HENNIGAN<BR>CRYSTLE NANAS<BR>DEBROAH HAROUFF<BR>RAFAELA HRADECKY<BR>DONNA BOLOGNESE<BR>JACLYN SCHROER<BR>BEE DINUZZO<BR>JERICA NETTER<BR>PHEBE YEISER<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:20 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;OF9A951DE3.D825EA51-ON8025697C.0035DBA5@solent.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>The vessel with the pestle holds the brew that is true.<BR>The flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison.<BR><BR>Then someone dropped the vessel with the pestle, so the brew that is true <BR>got put in the chalice from the palace.<BR><BR>Simple :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:32:47 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR><BR>I wrote a bit of Java a while back which lets you generate random words and<BR>then use a first-order Markov model to filter out words which don't look<BR>enough like English. With a little tweaking, you can generate lots of words<BR>which aren't just like existing words, but which you can still pronounce.<BR>This way you avoid just reusing existing names in your SF or fantasy game.<BR><BR>It's available at http://www.ksarul.com/traveller/software/<BR><BR>I haven't used this in a while, so there is no guarantee that it works, but<BR>you expect that from software, don't you?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:23:55 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: re:Is The Digest Working OK?<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Poor sick not-in-bed Dom wrote:<BR>&gt;I don't know if I'm blind, skimming too fast, or if this is a real problem. It<BR>&gt;seems to me as if the digest version of the TML is missing a few posts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Digest is working fine, Dom is working badly (off ill and should be<BR>&gt;in bed). Dom has accidentally cross posted three times and each has<BR>&gt;sparked off a discussion here on TML. Dom is feeling really stupid<BR>&gt;and hoping that it hasn't been noticed by those on both lists. Damn!<BR>&gt;Now I've given that away.<BR><BR>Keyboard kill! Yet again I had to explain why I was laughing so hard at work...<BR><BR>&gt;Dom (Well, I think it beats the Starship Troopers stuff anyway)<BR><BR>No contest there. ;-)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:51:38 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: healyzh@aracnet.com<BR>Subject: Re: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I think this should help you out:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 3D Starmaps, by the almost-famous Wincehll Chung (yeah<BR>&gt; that Winchell Chung). Very cool stuff here.<BR><BR>A most excellent source of data for anyone interested in such things.&nbsp; I've<BR>not found the answer to my problem there.&nbsp; However using the Gliese Near<BR>Star catalogue data there I just might be able to whip up a map with the<BR>info I need.&nbsp; The big problem with that being the lack of time to figure out<BR>how :^)<BR><BR>There is also a bunch of cool software programs here.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Zane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 16:38:36 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Transylvania Tech<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:08:52 +0100<BR>&gt;&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Time for Occam's Razor!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Surely Occam's Nair would be more appropriate in this application?<BR><BR>Nah, there are places you *don't* want to use Nair. As a friend found<BR>out when he used to to remove a heavy beard... &lt;ouch!&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Yes, the Transexuans seem to be rather lackadaisical in their<BR>&gt;&gt; application of scientific terminology. The lack of annihilative<BR>&gt;&gt; explosions and Hawking radiation seems to suggest that the 'antimatter'<BR>&gt;&gt; beams are actually a form of neural disruptor. Frank was essentially<BR>&gt;&gt; undamaged by the hit from the AM beam. Plasma or anykind of enhanced<BR>&gt;&gt; radiation would likely leave surface damage, but Frank didn't even get<BR>&gt;&gt; ladders in his fishnets. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; To me, this says more about the hardiness of Transexuans (and their<BR>&gt; hosiery) than about the technology of Riff's weapon. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Picture how hard it would be to run a pair of TL-20 stockings...the mind<BR>&gt; boggles.<BR><BR>I have this picture on a shell cratered landscape, and someone picking<BR>up a pair of fishnets from the puddle pf goo that's all the barrage<BR>left of some poor soldier, hosing them off and making some comment to<BR>the audience about how well the stockings survived...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Nah, probably just plenty of exercise.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Nope, the movie makes quite clear that exercise is a spectator sport for<BR>&gt; Frank. :)<BR><BR>Nah, he just does all his excercise in bed...<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Maybe the Transexuans were all Ancients in disguise. Hmm, Droyne in<BR>&gt;&gt; fishnets? &lt;shudder&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oh my god...my mind just went from there, to Droyne on stage, to how<BR>&gt; they'd get parts, to...the casting couch, of course.<BR><BR>"But Brain, wouldn't it take a lot of vaseline to keep the plaster from<BR>sticking to the couch? NARF!"<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 19:28:42 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>Thom Harris wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Second! (or third or fourth, whatever) It gave me an excuse to go to "Micro<BR>&gt; Center" and pick up one of their new Logitech Internet Keyboards that they<BR>&gt; had on sale for $14.95. At least that's what I told the wife... I didn't get<BR>&gt; the *official* tally but I believe it was six (6) from that one post!<BR>&gt; Automatically an "Ace".<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Congratulations Loren, it's quasi-official. I believe the keeper of the<BR>&gt; "Keyboard-Kill" list has to confirm it to make it really official....<BR><BR>Based on my count (and I have a special folder in which I archive all<BR>keyboard kills), Loren scored three kills with that post.&nbsp; While this<BR>score doesn't equal the exaggerated totals suggested by other TMLers<BR>(reminds me of fighter jocks in WW II), it _is_ the highest number of<BR>keyboard kills from a single post since I began keeping track in October<BR>1999.<BR><BR>I concur that Loren K. Wiseman should be recognized for keyboard<BR>slaughter above and beyond the call of duty.<BR><BR>*as seven beverage-drinking soldiers in Class A uniform line up*<BR><BR>The command is given...<BR><BR>Ready, aim, SPEW!<BR><BR>Ready, aim, SPEW!<BR><BR>Ready, aim, SPEW!<BR><BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 20:33:36 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Danny Kaye<BR><BR>&gt; Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk posted:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; (You can have a keyboard kill for just making me think of Kaye's<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; performance.<BR><BR>The man is woefully under-rated these days. The Court Jester is hilarious, <BR>pretty much from start to finish, and I like the film for several reasons <BR>(not the least of which is that it has Angela Landsbury when she was a babe).<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:34:35 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;...Further, based on LKW's remarks, few other 2-D movies<BR>&gt;survived the turmoil.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;So, what other 2-D movies survived?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I suggest that each of us who care about this topic submit a list of<BR>&gt;movies (ten or fewer per TMLer, please) that _should_ survive the Long<BR>&gt;Night.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Looking over the lists that have been posted so far, I am led to<BR>question what we are really asking here.&nbsp; Are we listing the "ten movies<BR>that we would want to take with us into the future", or the "ten movies most<BR>likely to survive the random destruction of the Long Night"?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; During the "Solomani Diaspora", if I may call it that, when Terrans<BR>moved into space and colonized countless worlds throughout the known space,<BR>trying to take the parts of their culture they felt important; and also<BR>during the Rule of Man, when every up-and-coming sycophant wanted to<BR>ingratiate themselves to the Solomani rulers, the products of Terran culture<BR>would have been spread far and wide.&nbsp; Lots of silms will show up in weird<BR>corners of the Imperium, as long as we are still able to read the media.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Besides, popular memory is short and fads are passing - of the<BR>movies listed so far, how many were made before 1950?&nbsp; How many people even<BR>_considered_ 'The Bicycle Thief', 'Modern Times', 'The General',<BR>'Metropolis', 'All's Quiet on the Western Front', 'The Battleship<BR>Potempkin'?&nbsp; Most likely, the movies that survive will not even have been<BR>made yet.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The scary thing to consider is that in terms of distribution (more<BR>copies laying around means more chances that something will survive to be<BR>unearthed later), the most likely candidates will probably fall into three<BR>categories:&nbsp; 1) Action Movies / "Blockbusters" [Titanic, Star Wars, ET], 2)<BR>Children's movies [Lion King, Little Mermaid, something with that unctious<BR>purple reptile], and 3) Some obscure porn movies that even the most decadent<BR>list members wouldn't recognise....even though any individual title may not<BR>have many copies, there are a LOT of them.&nbsp; (The mere thought of having the<BR>sole remaining record of our lives, dreams, and aspirations from the 20th<BR>century be a copy of "The Flintbones" is enough to send me screaming out of<BR>the room.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ---------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:44:19 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Antony Farrell" <BR>&gt; Ah comeone who needs a Tigress when a single Kinunir class<BR>&gt; "battlecruiser" can defend entire subsectors by itself.<BR><BR>I would like to report an act of public laughter that couldn't be<BR>meaningfully explained to the innocent bystanders.<BR><BR>Sometimes the old jokes are the best.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:05:25 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Legate Legion" <BR>&gt; &gt;Me:<BR>&gt; &gt;The interesting one:&nbsp; for some obscure reason the Navy doesn't have an<BR>&gt; &gt;HFB available at this time.&nbsp; Indeed, one might get the impression that<BR>&gt; &gt;the subsector Duke doesn't particularly like Count Imanoble...&nbsp; Perhaps<BR>&gt; &gt;there is some reason why the Count is hanging out in a fortress!&nbsp; But of<BR>&gt; &gt;course this is all most improbable - the nobility are, as we know, one<BR>&gt; &gt;big happy family that stick together, and never, never engage in violent<BR>&gt; &gt;feuds.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Well, do you mean a BHFB/Tigress or the HFB/Broadsword?<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Then any other major warship could be used.<BR><BR>You've missed my point here.&nbsp; The BHFB isn't available because someone<BR>doesn't *want* it to be available.&nbsp; Neither is any other ship.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Anyway, I don't think the 3I likes the idea of a full division of<BR>&gt; troops not under their control.&nbsp; I can see Count Imanoble's troops at at<BR>&gt; least TL13, so your division will have to be at least equal to TL13 to be<BR>&gt; able to fight them &amp; win.&nbsp; And, I cannot see the 3I letting a division of<BR>&gt; TL13 run around, as they could take over a small world &amp; destablize the<BR>3I.<BR><BR>A division of TL13 troops is basically a collection of TL 13 regiments and<BR>battalions.&nbsp; Do you have a problem with TL 13 battalions being around?&nbsp; I'm<BR>sure Instellarms could get them for you, or you might be able to convince<BR>the government of a TL 13 world to make part of their army available to you<BR>for a while (at your expense!), or...<BR><BR>There are plenty of divisions of troops not under the 3I's control inside<BR>the 3I - all the (significantly sized) planetary armies for starters.&nbsp; In<BR>addition, "the 3I" doesn't like or dislike things - "the 3I" in this<BR>context is basically just the subsector government, perhaps with the sector<BR>government looking over their shoulder.&nbsp; There are enough subsector<BR>governments in the 3I to have a considerable range of policies.<BR><BR>In any case, as I was trying to imply, there may be someone very important<BR>who would like Imanoble dead, who can smooth out any minor difficulties<BR>with the subsector duke.&nbsp; (The subsector duke himself is a good candidate<BR>for this role, if you assume that he can't openly move against Imanoble,<BR>and has to use agents like the PCs.)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 09:41:05 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Outreach - Was: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>From: Kristian Miller <BR>&gt; Yes.&nbsp; At least $8.&nbsp; It is fun to play.&nbsp; Just don't draw the "Infinity<BR>&gt; Chip."<BR><BR>IIRC it plays better if you ignore some of the rules, and just treat it as<BR>a multi-player backstabbing session.<BR><BR>Yes, it's worth $8, though I can't see much actual use for the map apart<BR>from its intended purpose.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:45:11 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;I suggest that each of us who care about this topic submit a list of<BR>&gt;movies (ten or fewer per TMLer, please) that _should_ survive the Long<BR>&gt;Night.<BR><BR>The problem with the list of movies submitted so far is that they clearly do<BR>not address a critical need which will be as present in the far future as it<BR>is today: to entertain young kids. In light of this key requirement, the<BR>people in the future will be in deep trouble if movies like these do not<BR>survive the Long Night:<BR><BR>The Lion King<BR>The Iron Giant<BR>Any movie starring Buzz Lightyear<BR>Any movie starring Scooby Doo<BR>Etc.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:42:32 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Is The Digest Working OK?<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Steven Hudson" &lt;shudson@lightspeed.ca&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:53 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Is The Digest Working OK?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; ...<BR>&gt; &gt;For example, which digest contains the initial post of<BR>"China-Japan-Phillipines<BR>&gt; &gt;Conflicts"?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's spill-over from another list, courtesy of treacherous address<BR>books :|<BR><BR>I blame Dom's mouse...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:08:05 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; hmmm. what about idioms in the far future? will "hell" be a strong<BR>word in<BR>&gt; an imperium mostly consisting of beings with no history with<BR>christianity?<BR><BR>I had the same problem a few months ago in the GT_PBeM I'm in.<BR><BR>I ended up using phrases like "by Cleon", "for Cleonssake", and<BR>"Strephon's Gleaming Palace" (the last to express amazement...)<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:25:38 -0700<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR><BR>I couldn't get it to run on my Mac.&nbsp; What version of Excel did<BR>you save it in?<BR>______________________________<BR>summers@alum.mit.edu<BR>(This is the net.&nbsp; My e-mail address may be in Boston, but I'm in California.)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:46:49 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Legate said:<BR>&gt;Anyway, I don't think the 3I likes the idea of a full division of troops<BR>&gt;not under their control.<BR><BR>Agreed. However, *if* the Count is an Imperial noble, by definition he is *part*<BR>of the Imperial Government and thus the troops *are* "under Imperial control".<BR><BR>From _Supplement 8: Library Data (A-M)_:<BR>"All nobility forms part of the feudal system of Imperial government. Nobles,<BR>upon receiving their patent or upon confirming their inheritance when coming of<BR>age, swear continuing loyalty to the Imperium, to the emperor, and to the<BR>emperor's heirs and successors."<BR><BR>and<BR><BR>"The Imperial bureacracy lies under the nobility in terms of official power."<BR><BR>This is the main reason, canonically, why high-ranking military officers are<BR>usually nobles - and why their Soc tends to go up when they are promoted (at<BR>least in Bks 4 &amp; 5 and MT). This is seen as the best way to ensure loyalty of<BR>the military - make them part of the system, and give them the commensurate<BR>benefits, and they will be far less likely to rebel against it.<BR><BR>Have another look at that "bulldozer" Colonel from Efate (GT:Starmercs). The<BR>planet doesn't really like him running around using some of the planetary forces<BR>as a merc unit, but they still let him do it (de jure?).<BR><BR>&gt;As for the payroll, well lets say some really nice guy in a turban hired them.<BR><BR>Ouch! Now _that's_ a different story. ;-)<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Worlds (usually only High Pop) can have more than one _starport_. Terra has<BR>&gt;&gt;three.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I assume you mean Kennedy, Baikonur, and the ESA facility on the north<BR>&gt;coast of South America?<BR><BR>Er, what Milieu are you from? ;-) I was talking 1100+; that is, the three that<BR>someone pointed out from _Invasion Earth_, and which were confirmed in<BR>GT:Starports.<BR><BR>BTW, at present I would classify Terra as having a Class X starport, with a<BR>number of spaceports scattered around due to balkanisation. Why? None of these<BR>are extraterritorial!&nbsp; ;-) ;-)<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3181<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3182<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR>Re: Aslan and heredity<BR>RE: (OT) 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>Re: Name Generator 'Released'<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night? <BR>The Guildsman<BR>RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>Re: Starport administration<BR>Re: Maps<BR>Re: Transylvania Tech<BR>Re: Traveller stories<BR>Re: Traveller stories<BR>Re: Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR>Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Jump Time<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Vaseline (was: Transylvania Tech)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 18:42:50 -0700<BR>From: Jesse DeGraff &lt;jdegraff@pacbell.net&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller movie studio?<BR><BR>Actually, you can't take video with it at that 3lb weight.&nbsp; That listing is<BR>*without* lens &amp; battery.&nbsp; Good-to-go weight is roughly 6lbs. 5oz., or<BR>~2.86kg.&nbsp; That plus the weight of a handheld rig with it's counterbalances<BR>equals really sore arms really quick.&nbsp; I recently had a pro wedding gig that<BR>I shot, and I was so late to leave for it that I forgot my tripod!&nbsp; I had to<BR>handhold the camera through the whole event.&nbsp; The reception wasn't so bad,<BR>'cause all the shots were short stint, but the ceremony itsef was 45 minutes<BR>straight!&nbsp; With the poor shoulder ergonomics of the XL-1 (it's major<BR>downfall, but a trade-off I accepted when I bought it), I was **drenched**<BR>with sweat by the end of it, and my arm muscles were beginning to shake<BR>involuntarily.&nbsp; That was the longest 45 minutes in my life!<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 11:15 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Traveller movie studio?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Jesse DeGraff wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Yeah, I've seen that.&nbsp; Pretty cute :)&nbsp; I think it's a GREAT way<BR>&gt; to get kids<BR>&gt; &gt; (and Steve Jackson of course ;) interested in film-making.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Of course, the equipment I've got access to or own is a bit<BR>&gt; more involved ;)<BR>&gt; &gt; Canon XL1 (mine)<BR>&gt; Sound Forge<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I've also REALLY always wanted to get a Steadicam, but I don't<BR>&gt; have a spare<BR>&gt; &gt; $4k for the base video model after buying the XL1 :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually their base video model is a lot less...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Their DV steadicam is only $1400<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.steadicam.com/store/pro_handheld/systems/dv.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; and their newest Jr model (which will support the XL1) is only $900<BR>&gt; ($700 if you can live with a monochrome monitor)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.steadicam.com/store/pro_handheld/systems/jr.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Since the specs on your XL1 is that it weighs only 3 pounds that's<BR>&gt; within specs for either of these models.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Want a harness to work like the big boys?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Build one for your Steadicam Jr for $40:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://people.a2000.nl/rpeperk/steadicam/index2.html<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson<BR>&gt; University of Arizona<BR>&gt; College of Pharmacy<BR>&gt; Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:30:51 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aslan and heredity<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 8:07:pm<BR>Subject: Re: Aslan and heredity<BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; For my Aslan characters, as they say in Sweden, I sense owls in the<BR>moss. :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Translating idioms like that will cause you to go mad, unless you<BR>&gt; already are mad. If you are, it will cause you to go "WHOOOPIEWHOOOO !"<BR><BR>Or, "Wobble..." with a chip up your nose (Was it a chip?&nbsp; It wasn't a<BR>cappachino I know that for sure!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:19:33 -0500<BR>From: Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR><BR>At 11:37 AM 10/18/00, you wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; John Watts writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;"Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a Good Blaster"<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;-H. Solo, respected Solomani Philosopher<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Great quote, but wasn't Mr. Solo living in a galaxy<BR>&gt; &gt; "far away" from Sol?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Sadly, the Solomani Confederation Libraries print of 'A New Hope' was found,<BR>&gt;under closer examination by post-historians, to be missing the first 15<BR>&gt;seconds of playing time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dean<BR><BR>Which version of `A New Hope' survived? Original, Special Edition, or <BR>someone's USA network video tape. (USA is a US cable network that used to <BR>show the trilogy on holidays. The movies were edited for time.)&nbsp; What will <BR>happen if different versions are found? How will the bizarre evidence that <BR>episodes IV-VI were made before I-III be explained?<BR><BR>Will the first trilogy (Episodes I-III) be used as propaganda to help <BR>justify the psionic suppressions in 800?<BR><BR>Food for thought.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Richard Wilson<BR><BR>rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR><BR>========================================================================<BR>Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>strive to overcome.<BR>========================================================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:50:44 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generator 'Released'<BR><BR>For those wanting a smaller (if uglier) name generator, I put mine up on my<BR>website under the miscellaneous GURPS link.<BR><BR>Yes, it is a DOS program, but the zip file is 34 kb, including the two data<BR>files (yeah, okay, you only get 190 first names and 430 last names).<BR><BR>A generous and sadstic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:51:16 +1100 (EST)<BR>From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Craig=20Barnett?= &lt;ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night? <BR><BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;So, what other 2-D movies survived?<BR><BR>1. Star Wars<BR>2. Gone With The Wind<BR>3. Alien (of course!)<BR>4. The Wizard of Oz<BR>5. National Lampoon's Vacation<BR>6. Life of Brian<BR>7. Blade Runner<BR>8. Brazil<BR>9. The Pink Panther<BR>10. Citizen Kane<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Craig.<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>&lt;ca_barnett@yahoo.com.au&gt;&nbsp; &lt;craig_barnett@iname.com&gt;<BR>Traveller Home Page: http://au.geocities.com/ca_barnett/traveller<BR><BR>_____________________________________________________________________________<BR>http://clubs.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Clubs<BR>- - Join a club or build your own!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:28:52 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: The Guildsman<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Just read through most of this mag during lunch hour, and have to say it is<BR>brilliant! It is packed with articles that are well-written and informative, and<BR>it is long - 60 pages worth!<BR><BR>I especially appreciated Jim's long article on TSR and copyright, having read<BR>his arguments a few years ago concerning uncopyrightable stats (monster<BR>"vitals") vs copyrightable descriptions (and gameworlds, etc). It re-examines<BR>the whole history of TSR's on-again, off-again relationship with the very people<BR>they should have been supporting - their customers, the gamers. Take the time to<BR>read this and understand why some old-timers still refer to the company as "T$R"<BR>(which incidently, they like about as much as Compu$erve likes people playing<BR>with _its_ name!).<BR><BR>The included scenarios contain pics and maps (I'm always a sucker for the<BR>latter) and are well-laid out for easy use by a GM.<BR><BR>The article on Yori is extensive, although I confess to being disappointed that<BR>the Research Station wasn't mentioned. Maybe I should send him my version (with<BR>deckplans - sorry, _maps - hmm)?&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>I also appreciated the long list of other e-zines and web sites (although why<BR>doesn't The Traveller Downport or Freelance Traveller rate a mention?), and I<BR>see I will be busy checking them all out.<BR><BR>In short, GET THIS MAGAZINE!! It's definitely worth it. 5 stars!<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:01:07 +1000<BR>From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>On Wed, 18 Oct 2000<BR>Frank G. Pitt said:<BR><BR>&gt;Zane wrote :<BR>&gt;&gt; On a related note, does anyone have any suggestions on obtaining<BR>&gt;&gt; a good 2-D or even 3-D map of about a 100LY radius of Earth, more would be<BR>&gt;&gt;good.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You could try the Universe map, though I don't know if that goes to 100Ly<BR><BR>The Universe map, though good, only goes out to 30ly around Sol.<BR><BR>Graeme<BR><BR><BR><BR>######################################################################<BR>Attention: <BR>This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the <BR>intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. <BR>Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.<BR>######################################################################<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:07:12 -0400<BR>From: "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR>This goes back to what I was saying at the beginning of this thread. It all<BR>depends on whether is an Imperial Noble or a Local Noble. AND I still<BR>believe the question open. Legate says Imperial but I still read it as "I'm<BR>A Noble" from *imanoble*; which leaves the question in discussion. If he's<BR>Imperial then falls within the guidelines laid out in a couple of the books<BR>and supplements. Local Nobles can, I Would Think, set their own standards<BR>and requirements that within the guidelines of the local government. Make of<BR>it what you will.....<BR><BR>Thom Harris - GOFIR - &lt;Gnarly Old Fart In Residence&gt;<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: &lt;david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 9:46 PM<BR>Subject: Re: Starport administration<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Legate said:<BR>&gt; &gt;Anyway, I don't think the 3I likes the idea of a full division of troops<BR>&gt; &gt;not under their control.<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;&lt;SNIPPED FOR BANDWIDTH&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Agreed. However, *if* the Count is an Imperial noble, by definition he is<BR>*part*<BR>&gt; of the Imperial Government and thus the troops *are* "under Imperial<BR>control".<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; From _Supplement 8: Library Data (A-M)_:<BR>&gt; "All nobility forms part of the feudal system of Imperial government.<BR>Nobles,<BR>&gt; upon receiving their patent or upon confirming their inheritance when<BR>coming of<BR>&gt; age, swear continuing loyalty to the Imperium, to the emperor, and to the<BR>&gt; emperor's heirs and successors."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; and<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "The Imperial bureacracy lies under the nobility in terms of official<BR>power."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:28:54 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Jim Vassilakos &lt;jimv@e2.empirenet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Maps<BR><BR>Zane writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; I think this should help you out:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; http://www.clark.net/pub/nyrath/starmap.html<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; 3D Starmaps, by the almost-famous Wincehll Chung (yeah<BR>&gt; &gt; that Winchell Chung). Very cool stuff here.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A most excellent source of data for anyone interested in such things.&nbsp; I've<BR>&gt; not found the answer to my problem there.&nbsp; However using the Gliese Near<BR>&gt; Star catalogue data there I just might be able to whip up a map with the<BR>&gt; info I need.&nbsp; The big problem with that being the lack of time to figure out<BR>&gt; how :^)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There is also a bunch of cool software programs here.<BR><BR>I wrote one a longish time ago:<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/8023/star.htm<BR><BR>It's an old dos proggie, and it doesn't have the capability of<BR>going to 8.5*11, but you can save sections of your map to<BR>bitmaps, and you can do rotations and stuff. Agreement w/<BR>Leonard about the problem regarding Red Dwarfs (there are<BR>help files w/ the starmap program and the gliese zip<BR>contained at the above-mentioned site explaining this problem<BR>a bit, as well as my ad hoc solution which was to invent<BR>a bunch of random red dwarfs to fill in the apparent holes).<BR>As usual w/ such solutions, YMMV, but you can always use the<BR>Gliese zip to construct a map based solely on the observed<BR>data (though even here, there is the problem that Gliese<BR>had to do a little guestimation of his own, so values in<BR>his dataset are not always firm, and in some cases he doesn't<BR>even hazard a guess).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:38:43<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Transylvania Tech<BR><BR>At 01:54 PM 10/18/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Maybe the Transexuans were all Ancients in disguise. Hmm, Droyne in<BR>&gt;&gt; fishnets? &lt;shudder&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Oh my god...my mind just went from there, to Droyne on stage, to how<BR>&gt;they'd get parts, to...the casting couch, of course.<BR><BR>I'm just picturing the cast at the Andor Multiplex casting Coyns to<BR>determine who played which part.&nbsp; Of course, cast politics would be a thing<BR>of the past unless you had two Leaders who wanted the same role.<BR><BR>Doug "Brad" Berry<BR>Erotic Nightmares, 1986-1992<BR>"On our world, we'll do the Time-Warp again!"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:27:58 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller stories<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"Columbus Was a Dope"<BR>&gt;&gt;(not sure which collection this was in)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 'The Menace from Earth' (currently in-print from Baen, IIRC)<BR><BR>I love the way the ending sneaks up on you... <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:29:04 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller stories<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Reading a post in another newsgroup remided me of a couple of Heinlein<BR>&gt;&gt;short stories that are worth tracking down just to get an idea of how<BR>&gt;&gt;attitudes can shift.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"It's Great To Be Back"<BR>&gt;&gt;(I think this can be found in "The Green Hills of Earth")<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; You are correct. It's in the Green Hills of Earth, although it's not one of <BR>&gt; the better ones, IMO. Don't get me wrong: they're all good.<BR><BR>I just thought it was a good example of a story abiut how different<BR>things might be for "everyday people". That's *specificly* why I<BR>mentioned it and "Columbus Was A Dope".<BR><BR>&gt; Personally, I see Space Jockey as one of the best examples of what a <BR>&gt; spacecraft pilot can have to go through. In neither it nor Traveller do <BR>&gt; computers play a huge role, making it even more applicable.<BR><BR>That's an example of the "same people, new dangers" aspect of the<BR>future. <BR><BR>&gt; Another neat plot hook from GHoE is in the Long Night: what if Johnny <BR>&gt; Dalquist hadn't stopped the bombing? Earth might have to send mercenaries in <BR>&gt; to prevent further damage.<BR><BR>"The Long Watch", and don't think his first name was Johnny. Some day,<BR>I'm going to try to track down a copy of the issue of American Legion<BR>magazine it first appeared in.<BR><BR>BTW, check out "Space Cadet", it's set in a future that's not the same<BR>as Heinlein's regular Future History, but "The Long Watch" is part of<BR>their history too. Along with a couple other incidents...<BR><BR>The only one they give any details about involves a Patrol officer who<BR>went to negotiate with officials in his home city. They tried to hold<BR>him hostage. In accordance with the orders he'd left before going into<BR>the city, when they failed to surrender by the deadline he'd set, the<BR>city was nuked. <BR><BR>I wonder what the *other* two men did to be enshrined in Patrol<BR>tradition. <BR><BR>I'd also be interested in seeing that solar system &amp; culture dropped<BR>into Traveller. Say as a newly (re)discovered human colony.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:46:33 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In-Reply-To: &lt;OF9A951DE3.D825EA51-ON8025697C.0035DBA5@solent.ac.uk&gt;<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The vessel with the pestle holds the brew that is true.<BR>&gt; The flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Then someone dropped the vessel with the pestle, so the brew that is true <BR>&gt; got put in the chalice from the palace.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Simple :-)<BR><BR>Except that it was the chalice from the palace that held the brew that<BR>is true while the vessel with the pestle held the pellet with the<BR>poison. Well, that was the plan.<BR><BR>Then someone broke the chalice from the palace. Which was replaced by<BR>the flagon with the dragon. And the pellet got put into the flagon with<BR>the dragon.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:44:35 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 17:34:35 -0700<BR>&gt;From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject:<BR><BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; Looking over the lists that have been posted so far, I am led to<BR>&gt;question what we are really asking here.&nbsp; Are we listing the "ten movies<BR>&gt;that we would want to take with us into the future", or the "ten movies<BR>most<BR>&gt;likely to survive the random destruction of the Long Night"?<BR><BR>I kind of tried a little of each. Working under the assumption that a films<BR>survival chances would be greatly enhanced if some oddball collector<BR>really liked it and made special plans for preserving it.<BR><BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;How many people even<BR>&gt;_considered_ 'The Bicycle Thief', 'Modern Times', 'The General',<BR>&gt;'Metropolis', 'All's Quiet on the Western Front', 'The Battleship<BR>&gt;Potempkin'?<BR><BR>It looks like you did although you haven't formated your choices<BR>as a top 10 list.<BR><BR>&gt;Most likely, the movies that survive will not even have been<BR>&gt;made yet.<BR><BR>Quite likely true. Have you got a list of ten yet to be released movies<BR>deserving or likely to survive the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt; The scary thing to consider is that in terms of distribution (more<BR>&gt;copies laying around means more chances that something will survive to be<BR>&gt;unearthed later), the most likely candidates will probably fall into three<BR>&gt;categories:&nbsp; 1) Action Movies / "Blockbusters" [Titanic, Star Wars, ET],<BR><BR>Not necesarily. I think the key to long term survivability is critical<BR>acclaim<BR>and a group of devoted fans. *The Princess Bride* (already mentioned as<BR>amongst the survivors) was not a huge blockbuster hit at the time of<BR>release but it is the kind of film that the people who like it like it very<BR>much. (I love it.)<BR><BR>&gt;2)<BR>&gt;Children's movies [Lion King, Little Mermaid, something with that unctious<BR>&gt;purple reptile], and<BR><BR>My list had Willy Wonka. OK so it's no Barney video but it's got the<BR>depth to it that will atract adult attention to the process of preservation.<BR>(Where as Barney vids tend to elicit quite the opposite behavior<BR>pattern)<BR><BR>&gt;3) Some obscure porn movies that even the most decadent<BR>&gt;list members wouldn't recognise....even though any individual title may not<BR>&gt;have many copies, there are a LOT of them.&nbsp; (The mere thought of having the<BR>&gt;sole remaining record of our lives, dreams, and aspirations from the 20th<BR>&gt;century be a copy of "The Flintbones" is enough to send me screaming out of<BR>&gt;the room.)<BR><BR><BR>In what way would that be much worse than having "The Flintstones" (TV<BR>series<BR>or movie) being the only surviving record.<BR><BR>Dave Shayne<BR><BR>"Do you think that I'm crazy?<BR>Out of my mind?<BR>Do you think that I creep in the night<BR>And sleep in a phone booth?<BR><BR>Frank Zappa (from the song Mother People)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:00:54 +1000<BR>From: Graeme_Batho@agd.nsw.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Jump Time<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; Why does each jump take one week? That seems _far_ too long for<BR>&gt; traveling a mere parsec (or less). So how about three days, or<BR>&gt; even the below system:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Time = 7*P/J<BR>&gt; where P is the number of parsecs traveled (round up) and J is<BR>&gt; the Jump Number used to get there.<BR><BR>That's OK for YOUR Traveller Universe, but all the rules in every<BR>official version have the one week + or - 10% jump time. I think<BR>the time of jump was introduced to minimise the effects on special<BR>relativity. You see ANY form of FTL travel is, under special<BR>relativity, the same thing as time travel. However, as jumps<BR>take a week in a special reference frame (jumpspace) that does<BR>not allow communication with normal spacetime the possibility<BR>of transmitting information back in time is minimised (or, at<BR>least, a lot harder for PC's to do).<BR><BR>I know that it is a concept that players struggle with, much like<BR>science today struggles with the ramifications of Quantum Mechanics.<BR>The constant time of a jump is something that is counter-intuitive.<BR>Consider:<BR><BR>1) The time of jump is independant of the distance travelled.<BR>2) The time of jump is independant of the mass involved.<BR>3) A jump 0 (that is, jumping to the same hex) still takes a week<BR>even though you haven't 'gone' anywhere.<BR>4) Intercepting a massive body (a gravity well) half way through a<BR>jump will precipitate the ship out of jumpspace - but the jump still<BR>takes a full week.<BR><BR>Now that last one really messes with causality! Suppose, for example,<BR>that you have a MOVING mass that is large enough to precipitate a<BR>ship out of jump (an asteroid, for example). Now suppose that a ship<BR>jumps one parsec (one hex) from system A to system B, while you are<BR>somewhere in between them with your movable mass (C).<BR><BR>I'll draw it:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; A&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; C&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; B<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; * ----------- o ----------- *<BR><BR>Example 1: After the ship enters jump you move the mass through the<BR>path taken by the ship. Now, if you leave it there, the ship will<BR>emerge at the end of a week at the 100 diameter limit of your asteroid<BR>mid-way between systems. But what happens if you move the asteroid<BR>again before the week is up? Does the ship still emerge where the<BR>asteroid HAD been; or does it complete the journey?<BR><BR>Example 2: Suppose the ship sets course to jump half a parsec to your<BR>asteroid, but after it enters jump you move the asteroid out of the<BR>way. Does it still emerge where the asteroid once was, or does it<BR>continue on for the full parsec it has expended jump fuel for?<BR><BR>I'm not going to suggest answers to these problems.<BR>I'm not even going to suggest that there is a "correct" answer to<BR>them. But they are two scenarios that I run each new jumpspace<BR>theory through, as a test, to see if it can give a reasonable<BR>and consistent answer to each problem.<BR><BR>Graeme<BR><BR><BR><BR>######################################################################<BR>Attention: <BR>This e-mail is privileged and confidential. If you are not the <BR>intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. <BR>Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author.<BR>######################################################################<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:23:33 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Here's mine :<BR><BR>Aliens&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ( This is a training movie for the Scout's military branch )<BR>The Abyss<BR>Blade Runner ( which is still considered very "relevant" in the 3I )<BR>The Matrix&nbsp;&nbsp; ( The only 2D film to show believable use of weapons, and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; appropriately hyped operators. &lt;grin&gt; What I mean here is<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; that the actons of Trinity and Neo in the lobby of the<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Agent's building is how 3I operators perform in the real<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; world, only 3I operators hit more often than Neo does. )<BR>A Clockwork Orange<BR>All Quiet on the Western Front<BR>Highlander<BR>Ran&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ( or possibly the other one,&nbsp; )<BR>Henry V ( Probably the Branaugh version, though the Burtin verison is good )<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; ( There _has_ to be a Shakespeare film, Shakespeare is _so_ relevant<BR>to<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; the 3I, so I've suggested two )<BR>The Lord of the Rings<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; (Peter Jackson's yet to be finished movie which will be great !)<BR>If it isn't, I'll vote for the Rocky Horror Picture Show too,<BR>though it's not real horrorshow my droogies.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:28:47 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Traveller-digest V1999 #3168<BR><BR>Jones, Dean wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Antimatter is TL17, but since Frank didn't vanish, we can't call it a<BR>&gt; &gt; disintegrator.&nbsp; Also, when the castle took off (there goes the<BR>&gt; &gt; neighborhood) it appeared to be a simple CG drive.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yes, the Transexuans seem to be rather lackadaisical in their <BR>&gt; application of scientific terminology. The lack of annihilative <BR>&gt; explosions and Hawking radiation seems to suggest that the 'antimatter' <BR>&gt; beams are actually a form of neural disruptor. Frank was essentially <BR>&gt; undamaged by the hit from the AM&nbsp; beam. Plasma or anykind of enhanced <BR>&gt; radiation would likely leave surface damage, but Frank didn't even <BR>&gt; get ladders in his fishnets.<BR><BR>Hah, shows what you know, puny human. <BR>Those weren't fishnets, that was the grid for a personal shield generator <BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:21:09 -0700<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Frank G. Pitt wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Ran&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ( or possibly the other one,&nbsp; )<BR><BR>Would that be "Also Ran?"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:44:15 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Vaseline (was: Transylvania Tech)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Maybe the Transexuans were all Ancients in disguise. Hmm, Droyne in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; fishnets? &lt;shudder&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Oh my god...my mind just went from there, to Droyne on stage, to how<BR>&gt; &gt; they'd get parts, to...the casting couch, of course.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "But Brain, wouldn't it take a lot of vaseline to keep the <BR>&gt; plaster from<BR>&gt; sticking to the couch? NARF!"<BR><BR>I'm sure there'd be plenty to spare.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3182<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (rly-yc03.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.35]) by air-yc03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:47:43 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yc03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:47:14 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id CAA72945;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:46:36 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:45:09 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id CAA72666<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:45:08 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:45:08 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010190645.CAA72666@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3182<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3183<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Name Generators<BR>Re: Aslan and heredity<BR>Re: Name Generators<BR>RE: going off-list<BR>RE: Name Generators<BR>Core Sector<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Transylvania Tech<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Transylvania Tech<BR>capitals<BR>RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR>RE: (OT) 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>Re: Traveller stories<BR>Re: The Guildsman<BR>RE: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR>RE: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR>vessels/pestles/flagons [was Re: Princess Bride]<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3182<BR>Re: Transylvania Tech<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:48:12 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I guess spacers might have referances to misjumps. With the <BR>&gt; general autonomy<BR>&gt; &gt; and delegative structure of the Imperium I'd suggest that <BR>&gt; referances to the<BR>&gt; &gt; Emperor are less likely. Natually, local slang depends on planetary<BR>&gt; &gt; government styles and religions.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Any "spacer" is apt to use "malf" (short for "malfunction") as a swear<BR>&gt; word. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "... malfing piece of unrecycled garbage..."<BR><BR>Agreed.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; with a different cultural<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; background than the one we have in the (western) world, different<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; expletetives are to be expected. what exepletetives do aslan, <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Something about lacking honour, running away, being puny. <BR>&gt; Actual insults,<BR>&gt; &gt; however, are an art form, so there are unlikely to generic insults.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Alas references to family and lineage. Think "Spanish nobles". <BR>&gt; "... su madre!"<BR><BR>Ah! Good.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; vargr,<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; In a charsma-based social structure, the worst insult is <BR>&gt; likely to be<BR>&gt; &gt; 'Loser.'<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Do I know you?" &lt;eg&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Sport: Sir, the jump-drive is failing to engage. The jump <BR>&gt; grid is fused.<BR>&gt; &gt; Leader: Electronics! Technician, fix it, fix it now!<BR>&gt; &gt; Technician(rolling eyes): Yes sir, as a technician I can <BR>&gt; certainly replace a<BR>&gt; &gt; jump grid in while we're in combat. No problem at all.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Gee, was Scotty trained by Droyne? :-)<BR><BR>Scotty: Leader, as a technician I must tell you I believe the engines are<BR>liable to fail under further stress.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:09:20 -0700<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>John Groth wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I concur that Loren K. Wiseman should be recognized for keyboard<BR>&gt; slaughter above and beyond the call of duty.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; *as seven beverage-drinking soldiers in Class A uniform line up*<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The command is given...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ready, aim, SPEW!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ready, aim, SPEW!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ready, aim, SPEW!<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Damn..... Another Trav Tradition is born.<BR><BR>Next Emperor's birthday? Eh, chaps?<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:00:33 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Rand Ratinac" &lt;docwagon101@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;shadowrn@dumpshock.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 3:21 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR><BR><BR>&gt; &lt;snipt!&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Male:<BR>&gt; &gt; JEWEL INLOW<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Female:<BR>&gt; &gt; EUGENIA HENNIGAN<BR>&gt; &gt; Matt<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Great, Matt.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I really wanna be a guy named Jewel, or a girl named<BR>&gt; Eugenia. ;)<BR><BR>Well, Eugenia *is* the female form of Eugene...<BR><BR>As to other oddities, I have actually edited the name list a tad, to get<BR>rid of Mark, Andrew, Peter, John, etc as 'female' names.<BR><BR>As to the rest, they are pretty much as provided by the US Census<BR>returns. On the site where I got the data<BR>rom( http://www.census.gov/genealogy/names/ ) they explain the<BR>methodology the used to collate the lists, and how they dealt with<BR>people transposing first and last names on the census forms (Smith John<BR>instead of John Smith etc). There are undoubtedly a few Last names<BR>masquerading as first names in the list, and vice versa, but in general<BR>these are names used by people in the good ol' US of A.<BR><BR>A couple of people have asked me if the data is weighted in any way, and<BR>the raw data I obtained does have statistical info, but after the first<BR>hundred or so names the probability is already less than 0.001% (Smith<BR>has the highest at just a hair over 1%, and it rapidly drops off), so<BR>just to save size in my data I decided to ignore weighting. I might put<BR>it in in a later version (As a token gesture, and just because I needed<BR>1 more last name to balance the numbers, 'Smith' is listed twice...).<BR><BR>Someone else wanted to know the structure of the data and formulae I am<BR>using (as they don't have Excel, and want to write an actual program to<BR>do the job). Well, the only reason I did it in excel was that I needed a<BR>name generator for my traveller game last Monday night, and by<BR>mid-afternoon Monday, hadn't found one that seemed suitable on the web.<BR>Then I found the census data, and in about 10 minutes I had a basic,<BR>functioning name generator using simple vlookup functions in Excel,<BR>which was all I had to hand.<BR><BR>There are two sheet in the workbook, Names (which is the visible 'front<BR>page' with the formulae), and NameList (which is hidden and holds the<BR>data)<BR><BR>On namelist column A is numbered 1-44400, B is the first 44400 Last<BR>names, C the next 44400 last names (the split is because the maximum<BR>number of rows in an excel column is 65536, and I had 88,799 last<BR>names...), D is the 1219 Male names and E the 4227 Female names.<BR>A1:E44400 is a named block called 'names'<BR><BR>The formulae are:<BR><BR>Male: =VLOOKUP(INT((RAND()*1219)+1),Names,4)<BR>Female: =VLOOKUP(INT((RAND()*4227)+1),Names,5)<BR>Last: =VLOOKUP(INT((RAND()*44400)+1),Names,INT(RAND()*2)+2)<BR><BR>If anyone wants to make their own generator, I suggest visiting the web<BR>site I quoted earlier, though their data is about a 3MB download in<BR>total.<BR><BR>HTH,<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:09:25 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Aslan and heredity<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 3:30 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Aslan and heredity<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2000 8:07:pm<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Aslan and heredity<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; For my Aslan characters, as they say in Sweden, I sense owls in<BR>the<BR>&gt; moss. :)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Translating idioms like that will cause you to go mad, unless you<BR>&gt; &gt; already are mad. If you are, it will cause you to go "WHOOOPIEWHOOOO<BR>!"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Or, "Wobble..." with a chip up your nose (Was it a chip?&nbsp; It wasn't a<BR>&gt; cappachino I know that for sure!)<BR><BR>'Wibble', 2 pencils, and don't forget the underpants on the head.<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:02:28 +0100<BR>From: "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "David P. Summers" &lt;summers@alum.mit.edu&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 2:25 AM<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR><BR><BR>&gt; I couldn't get it to run on my Mac.&nbsp; What version of Excel did<BR>&gt; you save it in?<BR><BR>Excel 2000, but it should work in Excel 97 too. Windoze versions<BR>anyway...<BR><BR>Matt<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:09:59 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: going off-list<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jussi Kenkkil wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; To be able to fully concentrate on my master's thesis, I'm <BR>&gt; &gt; going to have to go off-list soon. If everything goes well <BR>&gt; &gt; I'll be back after few months. Been enjoining the posts, <BR>&gt; &gt; especially all the (insanely) brilliant ideas.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You should tell your master to write his own damn thesis!<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Identify the quote time again:<BR><BR>'ThE MASter wouldn'T APPRove.'<BR><BR>Clue on the flyleaf dedication for FF&amp;S <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:11:53 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Name Generators<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Matthew Bond [mailto:mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk]<BR>&gt; Sent: 19 October 2000 08:01<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com; shadowrn@dumpshock.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "Rand Ratinac" &lt;docwagon101@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;shadowrn@dumpshock.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 3:21 AM<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;snipt!&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Male:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; JEWEL INLOW<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Female:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; EUGENIA HENNIGAN<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Matt<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Great, Matt.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>My favourite has got to be 'Crystal Nanas'...I just got this image of a<BR>bunch of glass bananas<BR><BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:54:14 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Core Sector<BR><BR>I've been thinking - is there genuinely adequate canonical material on Core<BR>Sector?&nbsp; The T4 material seems to have been thoroughly snafued, while the<BR>GDP stuff is forbidden canon.&nbsp; The stuff in Galactic looks like an<BR>unofficial hack of the T4 stuff.<BR><BR>It would be nice to have decent M:1100 data for the Core - and for other<BR>milieux like the Civil War.&nbsp; It would be handy for the MT crowd - it's<BR>Lucan's heartland.<BR><BR>Maybe someone should do a book on Core, along the lines of the various ones<BR>on the Spinward Marches and Solomani Rim.&nbsp; Resolving the conflicting<BR>versions and foul-ups would be a job in itself, and would probably require<BR>Marc's involvement.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:06:24 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Well, there should be lots of non-hollywood films - maybe some Indian<BR>(Bollywood) films.&nbsp; Kids films, propaganda, and "educational" material. <BR>And porn, of course - just to keep SolSec busy!<BR><BR>Some other stuff:<BR>Hivers &amp; Ithklur implies that at least some Abbott and Costello material<BR>has survived.<BR><BR>Monty Python material is necessary, if only for the sake of the endless<BR>supply of quotes...<BR><BR>Plan 9 From Outer Space (on artistic grounds).<BR>Reefer Madness (ditto)<BR><BR>Plus, of course, the following, hopefully imaginary film:<BR>Big Blond Bathtub Buddies VI.<BR><BR>This film is famous as the origin of the quote: "Open the pod bay doors,<BR>Hal".<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 00:52:38 -0700<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Transylvania Tech<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 01:54 PM 10/18/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Maybe the Transexuans were all Ancients in disguise. Hmm, Droyne in<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; fishnets? &lt;shudder&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Oh my god...my mind just went from there, to Droyne on stage, to how<BR>&gt; &gt;they'd get parts, to...the casting couch, of course.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'm just picturing the cast at the Andor Multiplex casting Coyns to<BR>&gt; determine who played which part.&nbsp; Of course, cast politics would be a thing<BR>&gt; of the past unless you had two Leaders who wanted the same role.<BR><BR>But that one is easy..... The Leader who looks best in Fishnets.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 02:51:16 +0100<BR>From: Ewan Quibell &lt;E.D.Quibell@bton.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In no particular order, my offering that I would hope to survive the<BR>Long night would be :-<BR><BR>Zulu<BR>The Italian Job<BR>Star Wars<BR>Blade Runner<BR>Glory<BR>Ferris Bulers day off<BR>ID (not Independence Day (ID4))<BR>Resevor Dogs<BR>Any Hammer House of Horror film<BR>Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels<BR><BR>Ewan<BR><BR>P.S. I'll apologies now as my spelling is atrocious<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:10:08 +0200<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Transylvania Tech<BR><BR>Craig and Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&lt;snip for safety reasons&gt;<BR><BR>Meeercy !&nbsp;&nbsp; *sound of whip cracking*<BR><BR>That was probably the funniest post I've read. Ever. If I had been<BR>drinking, I would have killed my keyboard, my monitor, and my stack of<BR>papers on computer science (*booooring*).<BR><BR>As it is, a neighbour knocked on the door and wondered what happened.<BR>The door was closed...<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:23:40 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: capitals<BR><BR>Anyone know sector/subsector capitals? I need any you've got.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:20:08 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Maps (was Re: Battlefleet Mars)<BR><BR>Checking my copy of Sky Catalogue 2000 for the names revealed<BR><BR>Ensis&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; No star listed with this name<BR>Unukalhai&nbsp; &nbsp; This one is Alpha Serpens, also listed as 24 Serpens (Distance 26<BR>pc, spectral type K2III)<BR>Algenubi&nbsp; &nbsp; Nothing under this name, there is a star named Algenib, Gamma<BR>Pegasi, or 88 Pegasi (Distance 150 pc, spectral type B2 IV)<BR>Alhena&nbsp; &nbsp; This one is Gamma Gemini, also listed as 24 Gemini (Distance 26 pc,<BR>spectral type A0 IV<BR>Dorsum&nbsp; &nbsp; No star listed with this name<BR><BR><BR>Hope this helps a little.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:20:13 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: (OT) 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>&gt; Sent: Thursday, 19 October 2000 12:37 AM<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: (OT) 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; John Watts writes:<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;snipped&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;"Hokey Religions and Ancient Weapons are no match for a Good Blaster"<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;-H. Solo, respected Solomani Philosopher<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Great quote, but wasn't Mr. Solo living in a galaxy<BR>&gt; &gt; "far away" from Sol?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>Perhaps not as far as we thought, I seem to remember a special which starts<BR>with a terran spacecraft crashed on Endor.<BR><BR>Antony<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sadly, the Solomani Confederation Libraries print of 'A New Hope'<BR>&gt; was found,<BR>&gt; under closer examination by post-historians, to be missing the first 15<BR>&gt; seconds of playing time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 01:36:55 -0700<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller stories<BR><BR>On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:29:04 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard <BR>Erickson) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Another neat plot hook from GHoE is in the Long Night: what if Johnny<BR>&gt; &gt; Dalquist hadn't stopped the bombing? Earth might have to send mercenaries<BR>&gt; &gt; in to prevent further damage.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"The Long Watch", and don't think his first name was Johnny.<BR><BR>Lt. John Ezra Dahlquist.&nbsp; The middle one stuck in my mind as unusual.&nbsp; Just <BR>checked it against GHoE.<BR><BR>&gt;BTW, check out "Space Cadet", it's set in a future that's not the same<BR>&gt;as Heinlein's regular Future History, but "The Long Watch" is part of<BR>&gt;their history too. Along with a couple other incidents...<BR><BR>I used to have a copy of this, DKS cover and all.&nbsp; It went missing during a <BR>move; I'd sure like to find another.<BR><BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:53:40 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Guildsman<BR><BR>At 14:28 19.10.00 +1100, you wrote:<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Just read through most of this mag during lunch hour, and have to say it is<BR>&gt;brilliant! It is packed with articles that are well-written and <BR>&gt;informative, and<BR>&gt;it is long - 60 pages worth!<BR>Link?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:48:58 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR><BR>Dom wrote:<BR>&gt; ObTrav: Would the Imperium see as much politicking around arms<BR>&gt; procurement? Would each of the ArchDukes be trying to influence<BR>&gt; for the suppliers in their sectors?<BR><BR>There is canon support for this idea (at least as far as military<BR>starships is concerned): check out the background&nbsp; notes&nbsp; on&nbsp; the<BR>"Children of the March" AHL&nbsp; cruiser&nbsp; (in&nbsp; the&nbsp; AHL&nbsp; cruiser&nbsp; LBB<BR>supplement).<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:05:31 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR><BR>I'd recommend Private Eye as source material for politicking and arms<BR>sales...this weeks stories on Robin Cook's (Britain's Foreign secretary)<BR>'peace&nbsp; brokering' attempts in the middle-east are detailed below for those<BR>interested:<BR><BR>'Robin Cook has been busily playing peacemaker in the Middle East, urging<BR>"calm and restraint" all round. His efforts in this direction are<BR>long-standing. Only this year, for instance, the Foriegn Office licenced<BR>11.5m-worth of claming and restraining arms to Israel, including<BR>"componants for combat helicopters" and "tank parts", according to the FO's<BR>"strategic export controls" reports.<BR>Other pieces of British kit bringing much-needed tranquillity to Israel and<BR>Palestine include small arms ammunition, grenade-making kits, parts for<BR>heavy gun ammunition, light guns, bombs, armoured fighting vehicles, weapon<BR>night sights and other goodies.<BR>At least Britain is even-handed. When Tony Blair also called for "calm" in a<BR>phone call to the Syrian government, he no doubt took the opportunity to ask<BR>them if they were happt with the 1m of high-tech military kit Britain sold<BR>them last - and whether the small arms ammo, night sights and sniper rifles<BR>we flogged them the year before were having the soothing effect required.'<BR><BR>- - Private Eye 1013, page 5, 20th October 2000<BR><BR>Ob_Trav: Does the 3I sell military eqipment to its Client States and nearby<BR>interstellar neighbours? Even if it doesn't, I'm sure at least one<BR>government in the Traveller universe does<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 19 October 2000 11:49<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: China-Japan-Phillipines Conflicts<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dom wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; ObTrav: Would the Imperium see as much politicking around arms<BR>&gt; &gt; procurement? Would each of the ArchDukes be trying to influence<BR>&gt; &gt; for the suppliers in their sectors?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There is canon support for this idea (at least as far as military<BR>&gt; starships is concerned): check out the background&nbsp; notes&nbsp; on&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; "Children of the March" AHL&nbsp; cruiser&nbsp; (in&nbsp; the&nbsp; AHL&nbsp; cruiser&nbsp; LBB<BR>&gt; supplement).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:56:17 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: vessels/pestles/flagons [was Re: Princess Bride]<BR><BR>mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;The vessel with the pestle holds the brew that is true.<BR>&gt;The flagon with the dragon has the pellet with the poison.<BR><BR>&gt;Then someone dropped the vessel with the pestle, so the brew that is true<BR>&gt;got put in the chalice from the palace.<BR><BR>&gt;Simple :-)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Exactly right judging from the great sound clip David Smart sent (many<BR>thanks!).<BR><BR>But didn't it get more complicated than that?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Ah yes, here's Leonard:<BR><BR>&gt;Except that it was the chalice from the palace that held the brew that<BR>&gt;is true while the vessel with the pestle held the pellet with the<BR>&gt;poison. Well, that was the plan.<BR><BR>&gt;Then someone broke the chalice from the palace. Which was replaced by<BR>&gt;the flagon with the dragon. And the pellet got put into the flagon with<BR>&gt;the dragon.<BR><BR><BR>Now I remember why I start to jibber when I watch the film and try to keep<BR>track of it.<BR><BR><BR>And just to relate this to Traveller (you may have to wait a bit for my<BR>Traveller scenario based on the plot....!) LKW&nbsp; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; (You can have a keyboard kill for just making me think of Kaye's<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; performance.<BR><BR>&gt;The man is woefully under-rated these days. The Court Jester is hilarious,<BR>&gt;pretty much from start to finish, and I like the film for several reasons<BR>&gt;(not the least of which is that it has Angela Landsbury when she was a<BR>babe).<BR><BR><BR>I absolutely agree (on all three points).<BR><BR>OK, so which figure in the Traveller universe would Kaye be best skilled to<BR>play in the Traveller film?&nbsp; (Aside from all of them)<BR><BR><BR>Which reminds me, films to survive the Long Night:<BR><BR>1) The Court Jester (of course)<BR>2) Harvey (James Stewart and the 6 foot white rabbit)<BR>3) Star Wars<BR>4) Dark Star<BR>5) The Sound of Music<BR><BR>and how come no one's suggested yet:<BR><BR>&lt;fanfare&gt;<BR>The Traveller Movie<BR><BR>(aren't we still crossing our fingers that this might happen one day?<BR>presumably before the Long Night?)<BR><BR><BR>tc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 12:57:30 +0100<BR>From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3182<BR><BR>&gt;they should have been supporting - their customers, the gamers. Take the<BR>time to<BR>&gt;read this and understand why some old-timers still refer to the company as<BR>"T$R"<BR><BR><BR>I did.&nbsp; Fascinating.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Just read through most of this mag during lunch hour, and have to say it<BR>is<BR>&gt;brilliant! It is packed with articles that are well-written and<BR>informative, and<BR>&gt;it is long - 60 pages worth!<BR><BR><BR>&gt;In short, GET THIS MAGAZINE!! It's definitely worth it. 5 stars!<BR><BR><BR>I concur.<BR><BR>tc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:19:37 +1000<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Transylvania Tech<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Oh my god...my mind just went from there, to Droyne on stage, to how<BR>&gt; &gt; they'd get parts, to...the casting couch, of course.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "But Brain, wouldn't it take a lot of vaseline to keep the plaster from<BR>&gt; sticking to the couch? NARF!"<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;splort&gt;<BR>&lt;foghorn leghorn&gt;<BR>I say it's a good thing i keep a spare keyboard for just such an occasion...<BR>&lt;\foghorn leghorn&gt;<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3183<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3184</B></TD></TR>
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<TD>10/19/00 1:25:04 PM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3184<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Core Sector<BR>Computer Kills Spread Off-List<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Computer Kills Spread Off-List<BR>Traveller on FFN<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Carried Away Gearheader<BR>Re: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE:Jason (was: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?)<BR>RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>RE: Computer Kills Spread Off-List<BR>RE: Computer Kills Spread Off-List<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>eBooks<BR>The Game Systems....<BR>Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Is The Digest Working OK?<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Wanted-to-Buy: "Pocket Empires"<BR>Re: The Game Systems....<BR>Re: The Game Systems....<BR>On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Cargo as a Revenue<BR>And You Thought&nbsp; *Your* Scoutship Smelled Bad...<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:18:24 -0400<BR>From: "Alberti, Joe (TRANS)" &lt;Joe.Alberti@Trans.ge.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Core Sector<BR><BR>"It would be nice to have decent M:1100 data for the Core - and for other<BR>milieux like the Civil War.&nbsp; It would be handy for the MT crowd - it's<BR>Lucan's heartland."<BR><BR>I agree. I would like to have accurate information on Core Sector.&nbsp; I have<BR>not been able to find anything on the web.&nbsp; This is one important sector<BR>that has been far underdeveloped in published material.&nbsp; Maybe this is<BR>intentional.&nbsp; Maybe most of the activity and adventure in the Traveller<BR>universe happens on the border sectors of the 3I.<BR><BR>Joe Alberti<BR>"Long Live Emperor Dulinor"<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:28:42 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Computer Kills Spread Off-List<BR><BR>I found this on The Sporting News' Web site this morning:<BR><BR>http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_darling/20001018.html<BR><BR>Scroll down to the section titled "Random Thoughts and Stuff."<BR><BR>Perhaps the management of TSN reads the TML....<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 10:12:54 -0500<BR>From: Leslie Bates &lt;lesbates@minn.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>At 05:06 PM 10/19/00 +1000, someone wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Well, there should be lots of non-hollywood films - maybe some Indian<BR>&gt;(Bollywood) films.&nbsp; Kids films, propaganda, and "educational" material. <BR><BR>Manner Gegen Panzer<BR><BR>German training film, still relevant on TL 5-8 worlds.<BR><BR>&gt;Monty Python material is necessary, if only for the sake of the endless<BR>&gt;supply of quotes...<BR><BR>A complete copy of the Book of Armaments would be nice. [grin]<BR><BR>====================================<BR>Revolutionaries are not nice people.<BR>==================================== <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:30:30 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Computer Kills Spread Off-List<BR><BR>Hmm, must be cultural. No keyboard kill here. I take it that Scott Mitchell<BR>is a poor passer? Give me a while to work out what the stats mean and I'm<BR>sure I'll find it hilarious. Sorry.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: John Groth [mailto:wombat@premier.net]<BR>&gt; Sent: 19 October 2000 14:29<BR>&gt; To: TML<BR>&gt; Subject: Computer Kills Spread Off-List<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I found this on The Sporting News' Web site this morning:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/dave_darling/20001018.html<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Scroll down to the section titled "Random Thoughts and Stuff."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perhaps the management of TSN reads the TML....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; -- <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead<BR>&gt; "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)<BR>&gt; Keeper of the TML Keyboard Casualty List<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:58:27 +0100<BR>From: "MJ Dougherty" &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Traveller on FFN<BR><BR>well folks....<BR><BR>FFN is back from the dead AGAIN.<BR><BR>There's some more Traveller fiction up - go to the website at<BR>www.fiction-fantasy.net and follow the links to game-related fiction, then<BR>to traveller. There should bea couple more tales appearing when The Master<BR>gets his act together.<BR><BR>A while back, I asked for people to deal with Trav content for the site.<BR>Specifically, we're creating a directory of product (not reviews, just<BR>"Supplement X, contains this, in that format sort of stuff.) some folks<BR>volunteered but the project got squished in the chaos. It's time to start<BR>again. Any takers?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:53:18 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>My list, in no particular order:<BR><BR>1. "Manos" the Hands of Fate (I don't think even the Long Night could<BR>destroy this)<BR>2. Wedding in Galilee<BR>3. The Texas Chainsaw Massacre (97th generation bootleg from the 2006 FMD<BR>print)<BR>4. Carry On Camping<BR>5. Dr. Strangelove, or how I learned to stop worrying and love the Sun<BR>Trigger device (Darrian remake of Peter Sellers Classic comedy)<BR>6. Natural Born Killers (in SolCon museum as an example of the kind of<BR>insanity that ruled before the Confederation was founded)<BR>7. Night of the Living Dead, 10370th anniversary edition<BR>8. Shaft, original print of the Richard Rountree film, still in mind<BR>condition because that John Shaft was a bad mother-Shut Yo' Mouth!<BR>9. Conan the Barbarian.<BR>10. Breakfast at Tiffany's (no reason other than Hepburn was a babe).<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:28:52 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Carried Away Gearheader<BR><BR>I think I got a little carried away.<BR>Checking what was on my site I noticed that I had put up 108 Mega Traveller<BR>designs (more to come) and seventy assorted designs for TNE.<BR><BR>Its alright though my therapist says I'm getting better he says its just a<BR>result of my not having sufficient parts to repair the jump drive.<BR><BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:52:50 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: Alan Huscroft &lt;a.a.f.huscroft@reading.ac.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Rodney Basler wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I just found out that my company is going to be sending me to our UK office<BR>&gt; in Reading for two weeks - starting next week.&nbsp; While I expect to be buried<BR>&gt; in the office for most of the time, I might be able to break away for a bit<BR>&gt; on the weekend (I hope).&nbsp; Are there any listmembers in that vicinity?&nbsp; <BR><BR>There is a listmember in that vicinity.&nbsp; You can't escape anywhere in the<BR>world, you know.&nbsp; (Not even Antarctica -- the penguins have that covered.)<BR><BR>&gt; Are there any good game stores out there?&nbsp; <BR><BR>There is a small RPG store in Reading, called the Trading Post.&nbsp; It's<BR>tucked away in a dingy arcade and almost impossible to find unless you<BR>know where to look.&nbsp; The selection of stock tends to be patchy.&nbsp; If you<BR>want to do some serious RPG shopping I suggest you consider a trip up to<BR>London to visit Leisure Games and/or Orc's Nest.<BR><BR>&gt; Can you buy the BITS materials over<BR>&gt; the counter in the UK, or are they mail-order there, too?<BR><BR>You can buy them over the counter, but you have to get a bit lucky.&nbsp; Most<BR>stores don't seem very consistent about keeping them in stock.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; Heck, what's the weather like right now??<BR><BR>[looks out of window]&nbsp; There's a strange, bright yellow thing in the sky.<BR>This is not normal.&nbsp; Maybe I should call the police.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Alan Huscroft&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A.A.F.Huscroft@reading.ac.uk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 07:59:26 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: William Molendyk &lt;wmolendyk@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>- --- Jeffrey Yin &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; Speaking of TNE, we know that Casablanca survives too. So those who pick it<BR>&gt; may want to rechoose.<BR><BR>In that case, on my list, change Casablanca to Johnny Dangerously.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; William Molendyk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:06:55 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; [looks out of window]&nbsp; There's a strange, bright yellow thing <BR>&gt; in the sky.<BR>&gt; This is not normal.&nbsp; Maybe I should call the police.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --<BR><BR>I see it too. I'll call the northern office and see if they have one.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:14:15 -0700<BR>From: "Glenn M. Goffin" &lt;gmgoffin@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;The problem with the list of movies submitted so far is that they clearly<BR>do<BR>&gt;not address a critical need which will be as present in the far future as<BR>it<BR>&gt;is today: to entertain young kids.<BR><BR>In 3,000 years, archaeologists and historians will no doubt be having lively<BR>debates about whether the film of "Jason and the Argonauts" and surviving<BR>copies of the same Greek myth in paper media are contemporaneous or come<BR>from widely different times.&nbsp; The Greek myth was probably first written down<BR>circa -4800 and the movie was made circa -2560.<BR><BR>- --Glenn<BR><BR>P.S. For you youngsters, "Jason and the Argonauts" was 1960s kiddie fare<BR>with cutting edge special effects.&nbsp; It gave me nightmares for years that I<BR>could not attribute to the film until I saw it again as an adult.&nbsp; In the<BR>early 1960s there were a few other movies about Greek myths that my mom<BR>loved to watch over and over but that scared me witless.&nbsp; I remember one<BR>about Hercules' meeting with Proteus in which Proteus turns into a gout of<BR>flame that runs into the sea -- that gave me nightmares, too.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:17:32 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE:Jason (was: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --Glenn<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; P.S. For you youngsters, "Jason and the Argonauts" was 1960s <BR>&gt; kiddie fare<BR>&gt; with cutting edge special effects. <BR><BR>Yeah we know...it was rereleased on DVD a couple months back (cheeky grin)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:31:50 +0100<BR>From: Matt Bond &lt;MBOND@karpad.demon.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Jones, Dean [mailto:Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 19 October 2000 16:07<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; [looks out of window]&nbsp; There's a strange, bright yellow thing <BR>&gt; &gt; in the sky.<BR>&gt; &gt; This is not normal.&nbsp; Maybe I should call the police.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; --<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I see it too. I'll call the northern office and see if they have one.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>We did have such a phenomena a couple of hours ago, but the plucky<BR>grimness fought off the intruder...<BR><BR>Matt<BR>TML, UK, Northern Office, Leeds.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:55:44<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Computer Kills Spread Off-List<BR><BR>At 02:30 PM 10/19/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Hmm, must be cultural. No keyboard kill here. I take it that Scott Mitchell<BR>&gt;is a poor passer? Give me a while to work out what the stats mean and I'm<BR>&gt;sure I'll find it hilarious. Sorry.<BR><BR>I believe the intent was to point out that the columnist was warning folks<BR>to put down their coffee to avoid keyboard kills.<BR><BR>As for Scott Mitchell.. he's a bad quarterback in the same way that T4 had<BR>a few editing problems.<BR><BR>Go Niners!<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:57:25 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Computer Kills Spread Off-List<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 02:30 PM 10/19/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Hmm, must be cultural. No keyboard kill here. I take it that <BR>&gt; Scott Mitchell<BR>&gt; &gt;is a poor passer? Give me a while to work out what the stats <BR>&gt; mean and I'm<BR>&gt; &gt;sure I'll find it hilarious. Sorry.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I believe the intent was to point out that the columnist was <BR>&gt; warning folks<BR>&gt; to put down their coffee to avoid keyboard kills.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; As for Scott Mitchell.. he's a bad quarterback in the same <BR>&gt; way that T4 had<BR>&gt; a few editing problems.<BR><BR>Point taken<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 08:57:02<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>At 12:09 AM 10/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Damn..... Another Trav Tradition is born.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Next Emperor's birthday? Eh, chaps?<BR><BR>Well, if Jesse ever finishes the armor, we would have a way to deal with<BR>the Furry Fans next BayCon...<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:15:30 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: eBooks<BR><BR>Hi all,<BR><BR>I just happened to follow up a tip off from a friend [Andy Slack, who <BR>may be lurking here] and found some books by authors who get <BR>mentioned here a lot electronically:<BR><BR>CJ Cherryh: Downbelow Station, Pride of Chanur, Chanur's venture, The <BR>Kif Strike Back<BR>Andre Norton: the new Solar Queen books<BR><BR>all are downloadable eBooks for the PalmOS or WinCE/Pocket PC for <BR>around $6 each.... I downloaded Downbelow Station, and it looks <BR>pretty good. The reader software is free as well.<BR><BR>The site was http://www.peanutpress.com/<BR><BR>There are some other authors there who may be of interest too...<BR><BR>Just thought you'd like to know. Sadly no EC Tubbs (?) stuff.<BR><BR>They have a novel solution to stop you giving others your <BR>authorisation code to open the book too...<BR><BR>Dom<BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:34:58 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; To step away from the canon/heresy discussions, movies whose theme song <BR>Norris is going to be singing in the shower after forging Imperial <BR>Warrants, Dulinor's motivations causing Lucan to say "wibble" in High <BR>Sylean, and Droyne in fishnets....<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Honest, it's a serious question. =)&nbsp; I was wondering about the game <BR>engines used in CT, TNE, and T4.&nbsp; Are there any particular advantages to <BR>using one or the other?&nbsp; Is TNE's system a good system or it is junk?&nbsp; How <BR>well does T4 stand up compared to the others?&nbsp; Is CT still a viable game <BR>system these days?&nbsp; (Am I going to go nuts and do a Traveller-Aria <BR>conversion?&nbsp; Drat, another idea to put on the 'Projects To-Do' list.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Also, as an aside... there was a mention of Trav filks now and then.&nbsp; I <BR>realized the other day just what a PERFECT song for the Rebellion era <BR>Genesis' "Land of Confusion" is.&nbsp; Thinking of the coming of the Black War <BR>during the little slow segue towards the end of the song is a bit <BR>chilling.&nbsp; Anyway, just thought I'd toss that out. =)<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:07:56 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>To a movie freak like myself, trying to pare a list down to only ten is like<BR>pulling teeth (Go ahead, just rip my heart out, why don't you?)&nbsp; So here it<BR>is.&nbsp; I actively tried to fill in gaps and cover things not already mentioned<BR>in other lists.&nbsp; Sadly, I am not nearly as familiar with eastern european or<BR>Indian cinema as I would like.<BR><BR><BR>1)&nbsp; The General (classic Buster Keaton)<BR>2)&nbsp; Harold and Maude (just like Rocky Horror, some fan out there will make<BR>sure this survives)<BR>3)&nbsp; The Bicycle Thief (probably the quintissential, or at least best known,<BR>Charley Chaplain movie)<BR>4)&nbsp; Metropolis&nbsp; (Come on, German Expressionism has to survive _somewhere_,<BR>doesn't it?)<BR>5)&nbsp; Stop Making Sense (the Talking Heads concert movie, just to keep things<BR>strange - besides, the song "Life in Wartime" has to survive _somehow_<BR>;o)<BR>6)&nbsp; The Seventh Seal (Depressing, moody; classic early Ingmar Bergman)<BR>7)&nbsp; My Neighbor Totoro (the artwork _alone_ deserves remembering)<BR>8)&nbsp; Mononoke Hime ("Princess Mononoke" - ditto.&nbsp; This movie reduces me to<BR>tears every time I see it.)<BR>9)&nbsp; Cyrano de Bergerac (The recent version with Gerard Depardeu...had to<BR>slip a French movie in somehow, besides, the subtitles were written by<BR>Anthony Burgess, and he did a great job of putting the poetry back in.<BR>Though the earlier version with Jose Ferrer is a great one, too - even<BR>having some of my favorite scenes/lines that were cut in the newer<BR>version...it is a tough choice, but I;d have to go with hearing Rostand in<BR>the original French)<BR>10) Sparticus (which is rapidly making Stanley Kubric one of the most<BR>well-known of the 20th century directors in the 3I, followed closely by<BR>Akira Kurosawa, George Lucas, and Hayao Miyazaki)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - they just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:34:09 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>At 2:45 -0400 19/10/00,&nbsp; Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Ran&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ( or possibly the other one,&nbsp; )<BR>&gt;Would that be "Also Ran?"<BR><BR>Splort!<BR><BR>Mmm. luke-warm coffee....<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:30:03 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Is The Digest Working OK?<BR><BR>At 21:50 -0400 18/10/00, "Matthew Bond" &lt;mgb@akira.swinternet.co.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; It's spill-over from another list, courtesy of treacherous address<BR>&gt;books :|<BR>&gt;I blame Dom's mouse...<BR><BR>And it's only got one button....<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 11:14:02 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Walt Smith" &lt;smithw@hartwick.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1) Kelly's Heroes.&nbsp; When I first showed this movie to my<BR>&gt;gaming group, they were amazed - they thought it was one<BR>&gt;of the best "bunch of gamers on the screen" movies they'd<BR>&gt;ever seen.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; A friend of mine ran a Shadowrun campaign where one of the NPCs was<BR>the German tank commander from the end of that movie.&nbsp; He took his share of<BR>the gold to Switzerland, eventually emigrated to the United States...where<BR>late one night he ran into a vampire.&nbsp; He was still alive (well:&nbsp; undead),<BR>wealthy and powerful, and happily living in Seattle.&nbsp; Dueling scar and all.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ---------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:17:29 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Wanted-to-Buy: "Pocket Empires"<BR><BR>Does anyone have a copy of "Pocket Empires" which they would be willing to<BR>part with?&nbsp; I recently found a copy of "Imperial Squadrons," and was both<BR>surprised and pleased to find its "strategic level" interstellar wargaming<BR>rules, but equally discouraged and dismayed to discover that in order to<BR>actually *use* those rules, you need to have "Pocket Empires."&nbsp; Yes, I<BR>realize that there's probably a copy or two available on those online<BR>auction sites, but they're just such a hassle, I'd rather avoid them if<BR>possible.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:28:19 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Honest, it's a serious question. =)&nbsp; I was wondering about the game<BR>&gt; engines used in CT, TNE, and T4.&nbsp; Are there any particular advantages to<BR>&gt; using one or the other?&nbsp; Is TNE's system a good system or it is junk?&nbsp; How<BR>&gt; well does T4 stand up compared to the others?&nbsp; Is CT still a viable game<BR>&gt; system these days?&nbsp; (Am I going to go nuts and do a Traveller-Aria<BR>&gt; conversion?&nbsp; Drat, another idea to put on the 'Projects To-Do' list.)<BR><BR>Of the three, I generally prefer MT ;)<BR><BR>TNE marginally handles combat better.<BR><BR>(Actually, my real preference is GT, but if forced to choose from previous versions<BR>...)<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:55:48 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>On Thursday, October 19, 2000, at 06:34 PM, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; How&nbsp; well does T4 stand up compared to the others?&nbsp; <BR><BR>I finally bought a copy and, 27 pages of errata aside, it's OK. The task system sticks out like a sore thumb (a game based on 2d6 doesn't need a bucket-of-dice task system to look trendy. WHY are they going to do it again????), but is playable enough. And I like the holes in the map of Core subsector. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; Is CT still a viable game&nbsp; system these days?&nbsp; <BR><BR>Yes, especially if you add the DGP/MT task system. You might like to look at BITS "At Close Quaters", too.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:02:08 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In his article at http://www.rpgplanet.com/dnd3e/tsr-rsd-0318.htm, Ryan Dancey tells the story of TSR's bankruptcy and its subsequent purchase by Wizards of the Coast. He identifies one very simple factor as the primary cause of TSR's demise: not knowing what the customer wanted. For example, TSR produced setting after setting for AD&amp;D, losing money on most, and spinning one of the most successful (Dragonlance) off with a new, untried system. Why they did any of this is unknown. The fact that it lost the company money and customers isn't.<BR><BR>Under Wizards of the Coast's new management, the success of Dungeons and Dragons 3rd Edition has been spectacular. Wizards of the Coast have done two things to ensure this success based on feedback from customers: they have gone back to the core focus of the game, and they have concentrated on a few strong, saleable settings with one, Greyhawk, as the default (they would have dumped Dragonlance if it weren't for the fact that the novels still sell).<BR><BR>What does this have to do with Traveller? Far Future are working hard to find out what their customers want from Traveller 5. The surveys on their web-site to find people's favorite system and mileu are giving important feedback. At the moment the most popular system is Classic and the most popular mileu is "The Golden Age of The Imperium", each by a factor of 2:1. Yet if Far Future were to ask openly what the customer really wanted, it could well be mileu 1116, or mileu 1105 without the threat of the Revolution. Given the success of GURPS Traveller and the Classic reprints, why Far Future are not asking their customers this is unknown.<BR><BR>Traveller's core focus is "Science fiction role-playing in the far future". Traveller's far future is included in the list of mileux from the survey on Far Future's site, but the customer's vote is for the Golden Age of The Imperium and Far Future plan to produce an initial set of rules based near the beginning of the Imperium, followed by a series of independent rule modules based in different mileu. Splitting the brand with this "historical science fiction" approach didn't sell with T4, in stark contrast with the success of GURPS Traveller and the Classic reprints. If Far Future want Traveller 5 to be the runaway success it can be in a re-invigorated market for Role-playing Games, there are two options that they should consider. The first is to accept customer demand and set the game in a revolution-less 1105 or 1116. The customer may not always be right, however, and the second option offers a much more exciting opportunity: they could truly embrace Traveller's core focus!<BR>, and push the game and its fans on to the Far Future. Both Far Future and Traveller's established audience need to move beyond the wasteful death of the Third Imperium, not to retreat into its past. <BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:06:37 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>On Wed, 18 Oct 2000, Tage Borg wrote:<BR>&gt; hmmm. what about idioms in the far future? will "hell" be a strong word in<BR>&gt; an imperium mostly consisting of beings with no history with christianity?<BR><BR>Considering the cultural differences even on our single planet, I would<BR>think that every system or at least every couple of systems have very<BR>varying expletives.<BR><BR>I hear that we Finns curse a lot, compared to other peoples. "Helvetti",<BR>or "hell" is not so strong a word. Of course, in a formal situation it<BR>would be very offending, but in a normal conversation it is, if not<BR>common, not very uncommon.<BR><BR>There are also other words, which are heard all the time on the streets,<BR>and which hurt my ears. Never heard someone talk abroad with every other<BR>word a four letter word, beginning with an 'f'. <BR><BR>Hm, I could imagine some traveller get beaten for saying completely<BR>innocent things, in his/her/its opinion...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:29:15 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>&gt; 3)&nbsp; The Bicycle Thief (probably the quintissential, or at least best known,<BR>Charley Chaplain movie)<BR><BR>Hmm.&nbsp; 'The Bicycle Thief' ('Ladri di biciclette') is the movie that popularized the Italian post-war 'neo-realist' style in the US, made in 1948.&nbsp; No Chaplin in sight.&nbsp; And, honestly, I can't imagine which Chaplin movie you're confusing it with:&nbsp; 'Modern Times'?&nbsp; 'City Lights'?&nbsp; The former is one of my top 5 favorite movies of all-time, while the latter is "probably the quintissential, or at least best known, Chaplin movie" -- that or 'The Gold Rush,' which seems an even further stretch to confuse with 'Bicycle Thief'...<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>ObTrav (sorta):&nbsp; Though I stick by my earlier claim that 20C film should be represented in the 3I mainly by dreck, if I were to make a list of which films SHOULD be saved, it would definitely include Chaplin, and maybe 'Bicycle Thief' as well, though I tend to prefer Rossellini, Visconti, and early Fellini for neo-realism.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:41:41 -0500 (CDT)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cargo as a Revenue<BR><BR>James Jensen asked, almost lost in the noise:<BR><BR>&gt; This'll mark me as the ultimate newbie, but I don't understand the rules <BR>&gt; about shipping cargo as a revenue as described on pages 8-9 in Book 2. I can <BR>&gt; understand the speculative trade rules fairly well, but I don't understand <BR>&gt; this.<BR><BR>Don't have that in front of me, but here's a quick run-down.&nbsp; Might help<BR>if you could be more specific about what's confusing you.<BR><BR>There's two main ways to use cargo space.&nbsp; You can buy your own goods and<BR>ship them yourself, hoping to resell them for a profit at your destination.&nbsp; <BR>This is speculative trade.&nbsp; Alternatively, you can offer to haul someone<BR>else's cargo as freight for a flat kCr 1/ton fee.&nbsp; Most of the rest of the<BR>rules exist to figure out how much cargo there is and what it is.&nbsp; This is<BR>important so that you can figure out if you've got enough room to haul the<BR>cargo lot (or there's enough cargo to fill your hold).&nbsp; It's also important<BR>because whether or not the players own it, what the cargo is could become<BR>an issue later.<BR><BR>There's other kinks; mail contracts, setting aside room for the luggage <BR>of high passengers, etc.<BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:17:23 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: And You Thought&nbsp; *Your* Scoutship Smelled Bad...<BR><BR>Anybody remember the writeup on the scoutship's ventilation in<BR>Traders and Gunboats? Reality just beat it hands down.<BR><BR>The following was posted today on ABC's news site:<BR><BR>- -- quote --<BR>C A P E&nbsp;&nbsp; C A N A V E R A L, Fla., Oct. 19 - Fixing a backed-up toilet<BR>in outer space is, if anything, an even messier job than on the ground,<BR>as astronaut Jeff Wisoff learned today.<BR><BR>The problem began soon after the crew of space shuttle Discovery woke<BR>up to begin their ninth day in orbit. Pilot Pam Melroy was performing<BR>the daily routine of compacting the waste in the shuttle's toilet, or<BR>as NASA calls it, the Waste Containment System, when it registered a<BR>malfunction.<BR><BR>"We're not sure exactly what happened, but they do have to go in and<BR>clean it out some. You'd definitely want some gloves on," NASA<BR>spokesman James Hartsfield said.<BR><BR>That was what Wisoff thought, too. While other astronauts were busy<BR>opening some hatches on the International Space Station for a day of<BR>inside operations, the job of scooping out the solid waste fell to him.<BR><BR>Even though he looked everywhere he could think of, he could not find<BR>the shoulder-length gloves he wanted.<BR><BR>"We suggest you consider an elbow length," Mission Control radioed<BR>Wisoff.<BR><BR>"We'll use that if we have to," Wisoff called back.<BR><BR>There was no word from the Waste Containment System until Melroy's<BR>voice came over the communications line.<BR><BR>"Well, Jeff is more a hero than most people will appreciate. We got it<BR>taken care of and everything is back to normal," Melroy said.<BR><BR>- -- end quote --<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; All together now....."EEWWWWWWW!"<BR><BR>Anybody care to share the most disgusting situation a GM has put a <BR>group of players in?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3184<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (rly-yd02.mail.aol.com [172.18.150.2]) by air-yd01.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:25:04 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yd02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:24:26 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id QAA21581;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:22:55 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:21:11 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id QAA21504<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:21:11 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:21:11 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010192021.QAA21504@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3184<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3185<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Animation (was Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?)<BR>Re: MHD powered Air/Rafts<BR>Re: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>Re: Carried Away Gearheader<BR>Re: Traveller on FFN<BR>Re: The Guildsman<BR>RE: Carried Away Gearheader<BR>Re: MHD powered Air/Rafts<BR>Relics from the Islands TCS PBEM<BR>GURPS Perry Rhodan?<BR>Measurement Conversion Software<BR>Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: The Guildsman<BR>Re: Traveller stories<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:14:04 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; There are also other words, which are heard all the time on the streets,<BR>&gt; and which hurt my ears. Never heard someone talk abroad with every other<BR>&gt; word a four letter word, beginning with an 'f'.<BR><BR>Hah! My wife and I used to call someone we knew 'Frank and sh**' because<BR>he seemingly had to use those two words at least once in every sentence,<BR>often every other word.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:20:14 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Aliens&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ( This is a training movie for the Scout's military branch )<BR><BR>The John Carpenter version of "The Thing" might be useful also. <BR>Picture the poor group of archeologists who find a copy locked in a<BR>safe at the remains of an old Antarctic base they are excavating.<BR>Especially if the print is damaged enough to mistake it for an attempt<BR>to document a real incident. <BR><BR>Naturally, this will happen after they are "wintered in". <BR><BR>The *real* reason it was locked in the safe was that the person in<BR>charge of the base realized that it was *bad* idea to show that film at<BR>such a base.<BR><BR>Of course, the archeologist will start thinking that it was locked in<BR>the safe to protect it... :-)<BR><BR>If you can get a copy of the story "Who Goes There?" by Campbell, loan<BR>it to a few players. Then stick the party in an "appropriate" location.<BR>:-)<BR><BR>&gt; The Matrix&nbsp;&nbsp; ( The only 2D film to show believable use of weapons, and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; appropriately hyped operators. &lt;grin&gt; What I mean here is<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; that the actons of Trinity and Neo in the lobby of the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Agent's building is how 3I operators perform in the real<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; world, only 3I operators hit more often than Neo does. )<BR><BR>The DVD is fun. Slow down or stop some of the sequences. <BR><BR>BTW, some of the stuff in there (in the "real world" segments) is<BR>appropriate for "anti-Virus" precautions for the folks who use a<BR>somewhat more realistic version of Virus than the official version.<BR><BR>Speaking of DVD, I like my DVD and I'm kinda glad I'd never got around<BR>to getting a "real" CD player (other than the one on a boom box I got<BR>in trade). The DVD player does just fine, and is easier to use because<BR>of the "on screen" menus.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:46:20 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>At 16:21 -0400 19/10/00, "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; [looks out of window]&nbsp; There's a strange, bright yellow thing<BR>&gt; &gt; in the sky.<BR>&gt; &gt; This is not normal.&nbsp; Maybe I should call the police.<BR>&gt;I see it too. I'll call the northern office and see if they have one.<BR><BR>I had a look out this afternoon, and we had one of those unidentified <BR>flying objects too. It seemed to be hiding in the normal grey and <BR>white sky dome. Do you think those blue bits I can see in the Dome <BR>are damage?<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:37:51 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 16:21 -0400 19/10/00, Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; The first is to accept customer demand and set the game in a <BR>&gt;revolution-less 1105 or 1116. The customer may not always be right, <BR>&gt;however, and the second option offers a much more exciting <BR>&gt;opportunity: they could truly embrace Traveller's core focus!<BR>&gt; , and push the game and its fans on to the Far Future. Both Far <BR>&gt;Future and Traveller's established audience need to move beyond the <BR>&gt;wasteful death of the Third Imperium, not to retreat into its past.<BR><BR>I'd actually consider publishing a rules set based in 1116 <BR>pre-assassination, with data for TL up to 21.<BR><BR>There again, I'd also consider decanonising TNE's setting, having the <BR>Imperium collapse through Hard Times, and run the clock forward a <BR>couple of hundred years or more to have a Fourth Imperium (I'm <BR>thinking Second Foundation / First Foundation rebuilt Empire here). <BR>&lt;dons flameproofing against TNE addicts&gt;.<BR><BR>Either that, or I'd let Strephon have gone back to Capital and nailed <BR>Lucan, then Dulinor.<BR><BR>And then, with the Imperium stretched to the limit, I'd have had the <BR>true saviours of humaniti, the Solomani Confederation, liberate the <BR>Old Expanses, the Rim, Daibei and Diaspora. And leave the setting <BR>poised with a cold war about to explode between the two...<BR><BR>Dom &lt;gibbering&gt;<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:04:00 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: SD Mooney [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, 20 October 2000 8:38<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; I'd actually consider publishing a rules set based in 1116 <BR>&gt; pre-assassination, with data for TL up to 21.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There again, I'd also consider decanonising TNE's setting, having the <BR>&gt; Imperium collapse through Hard Times, and run the clock forward a <BR>&gt; couple of hundred years or more to have a Fourth Imperium (I'm <BR>&gt; thinking Second Foundation / First Foundation rebuilt Empire here). <BR>&gt; &lt;dons flameproofing against TNE addicts&gt;.<BR><BR>Hmmm.... why stop at TNE, we could de-canonise MT, and that would get<BR>rid of the problem of the DGP 'Forbidden canon', as well as the whole<BR>rebellion thing wrecking a perfectly good monolithic empire. Then we<BR>could also de-canon Supplement nine - fighting ships, the Imperium was<BR>never meant to have ships that large anyway... and then we had better<BR>get rid of High Guard.. for letting those monstrosities get built.. and<BR>now the Kinunir makes sense. <BR>We can also get rid of Leviathan (bye bye jump torpedoes), Annic Nova<BR>(none of this solar powered jump crap)..... and now we have a much more<BR>manageable universe....<BR><BR>;)<BR><BR><BR><BR>Paul Harris<BR>Traveller Ref since 1984<BR>There is no Traveller Canon, there is just a game.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:19:58 -0400<BR>From: Jeff Zeitlin &lt;jzeitlin@cyburban.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:20:51 -0400 (EDT), John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Well, Emperor Strephon seems to have enjoyed _The Princess Bride_ enough<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to have quoted it in his journals....<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; It's one of the few classics from the Golden Age of 2-D movies to survive the<BR>&gt;&gt; Long Night.<BR><BR>&gt;All right.&nbsp; Based on Emperor Strephon's quote from _The Princess Bride_<BR>&gt;(and confirmed by LKW), we know that _The Princess Bride_ survived the<BR>&gt;Long Night.&nbsp; Further, based on LKW's remarks, few other 2-D movies<BR>&gt;survived the turmoil.<BR><BR>&gt;So, what other 2-D movies survived?<BR><BR>&gt;I suggest that each of us who care about this topic submit a list of<BR>&gt;movies (ten or fewer per TMLer, please) that _should_ survive the Long<BR>&gt;Night.&nbsp; Note that movies specifically mentioned in canon (such as _The<BR>&gt;Princess Bride) need not be listed, as canon has already demonstrated<BR>&gt;their survival.&nbsp; All movies listed can be assumed to have survived. <BR>&gt;However, movies listed by multiple TMLers are more likely to be<BR>&gt;recognized by average Imperial citizens (roll 10+ on 2D for a given<BR>&gt;Imperial citizen to recognize a listed movie reference; DM + number of<BR>&gt;TMLers who list that movie; roll 4+ to recognize movies mentioned in<BR>&gt;canon).<BR><BR>&gt;This mechanism should keep the number of movies that survived the fall<BR>&gt;of the Ramshackle Empire down to a reasonable level, for purposes of<BR>&gt;explicit references.<BR><BR>OK, here are mine:<BR><BR>1. The Hunt for Red October&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ['cause it was a great flick]<BR>2. Star Wars (Episode IV: A New Hope)&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [ditto]<BR>3. Tron&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [a landmark in technique]<BR>4. The Lord Of The Rings ('live animation') [ditto]<BR>5. RHPS&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [cult favorite, keeps going...]<BR>6. SEE NOTE 1 BELOW<BR>7. SEE NOTE 2 BELOW<BR><BR>Note 1 - Either Blazing Saddles or Spaceballs - at least one Mel Brooks<BR>parody has _got_ to make the list.<BR><BR>Note 2 - You also need an absolutely Grade-Z movie, no matter how bad -<BR>candidates are Plan Nine From Outer Space, or The Creature That Ate<BR>Sheboygan.<BR>- --<BR>Jeff Zeitlin<BR>jzeitlin@cyburban.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:33:16 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; 7)&nbsp; My Neighbor Totoro (the artwork _alone_ deserves remembering)<BR><BR>Warning! Semi-spoiler follows for anyone who hasn't seen the movie!<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>I dunno. Project A-ko deserves to survive, just because the breakfast<BR>scene at the end, combined with all the older DC comics that'll survive<BR>will cause some *serious* problems for the scholars trying to come up<BR>with a *consistent* version of "The Superman Legend".<BR><BR>Not that the comics don't contradict themselves often enough. But<BR>having Clark and Lois living in Japan, and having a super-powered<BR>daughter will *really* mess things up. <BR><BR>So will everyone's lack of curiousity regarding her powers.<BR><BR>Then again, maybe they'll throw in some of the Perry Rhodan stories and<BR>just assume that everybody assumes she's another mutant.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 14:38:33 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>An addition to the "dreck that will survive" list:<BR><BR>"Operation Stardust" (I think that was the title). It's a German movie<BR>about the first expedition to the moon discovering high TL humanoid<BR>aliens there. <BR><BR>It's based on the first book in the Perry Rhodan series. Which was<BR>(is?) a *major* (so-so) SF phenomenon in Germany in the 60s &amp; 70s. I<BR>don't know how it's doing now. But at its height the *team* of writers<BR>was producing something like two novels a *week*.<BR><BR>But given the basic plotline: Humans meet decadent aliens, humans<BR>unite against them, humans conquer alien empire, and go on to spread<BR>the "right" culture across the stars; I expect that the books (and the<BR>movie) would enjoy a resurgence of popularity after the conquest of the<BR>Vilani. And the Solomani have probably revived them yet again.<BR><BR>It wouldn't be that hard to "revise" them a bit to be closer to Trav<BR>tech, and to Trav history. <BR><BR>It might even be fun (for a twisted GM willing to put a *lot* of effort<BR>into it) to come up with a variant Traveller campaign set in the Perry<BR>Rhodan universe.<BR><BR>BTW, Loren? It occurs to me that if Perry Rhodan still enjoys any sort<BR>of popularity in Germany, a GURPS: Perry Rhodan might sell well there.<BR>And it's different enough from most US SF, while still being "super<BR>science space opera" that some of the US fans who bought the US<BR>editions of the book (again, back in the 70s) might buy a few copies<BR>also. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:30:16 -0700<BR>From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Animation (was Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?)<BR><BR>Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; 3. Tron&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [a landmark in technique]<BR><BR>So Tron (who else remembers the TRace ON command, and its counterpart<BR>TROFF?) is an example of TL 7 animation. Maybe Toy Story 2 is an example of<BR>TL 8 animation. Sooner or later, certainly not later that TL 10, we will<BR>have animation which is as good as the real thing. No more real celebrities,<BR>just computer constructs. By typical Traveller TL, which is 14 to 16, we<BR>should have some pretty fancy stuff. You probably can't tell the difference.<BR>You also probably can't play the advanced TL entertainment on lower TL<BR>equipment, since you don't have enough processing power, memory, or<BR>whatever.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:03:03 EDT<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: MHD powered Air/Rafts<BR><BR>I was looking through FFS2 after reading about low-cost MHD turbine<BR>powered grav-vehicles here on the TML, and found that FFS2 has no rules<BR>for MHD turbine power plants.&nbsp; They're not even mentioned in the errata.<BR>Are they considered unrealistic or impractical?&nbsp; Have they been dropped <BR>for this reason?<BR><BR>Also, the power plant tables give no requirement for radiator area for<BR>chemical power plants, (all other power plants, even fuel cells have <BR>surface area requirements).&nbsp; Shouldn't they require some surface area?<BR><BR>Ludowick<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:06:20 EDT<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR><BR>1). Kelly's Heroes: ultimate RPG flick.<BR><BR>2). Zardoz: immortality, CG flying stone idol, &amp; eugenically produced<BR>barbarian killer with a Webley-Farnsworth; "The gun is good."<BR><BR>3). Varan the Unbelievable: giant flying squirrel with jet propelled nuts;<BR>unbelievable is an understatement.<BR><BR>4). Kagemusha: bloody samurai tragedy.<BR><BR>5). Ran: even bloodier samurai tragedy; gives new meaning to the word <BR>SPLORT.<BR><BR>6). Eraserhead: a paragon of grotesquerie.<BR><BR>7). Marat/Sade: ibidem, and it's a musical.<BR><BR>8). Five Million Years to Earth: Hammer Studios Lovecraftian flick.&nbsp; "Are<BR>you trying to say Man owes his condition to the intervention of... Insects?!"<BR>Well, would you believe Droyne?<BR><BR>9). The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 'nother good RPG flick; features <BR>famous three-way showdown.<BR><BR>10). The Green Slime: American sci-fi, made in Japan, with Italian cast, <BR>featuring lively "soul" theme song; so bad, it's fun.<BR><BR>Bonus 11th movie ("But this one goes to 11...")<BR><BR>11). Hollywood Chainsaw Hookers: ho' lotta fun.<BR><BR>Ludowick &lt;the chattering monkey on the shoulder of the TML&gt;<BR>(did I mention Gamera vs. Zigra?)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:59:35 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Carried Away Gearheader<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Antony wrote:<BR>&gt;I think I got a little carried away.<BR>&gt;Checking what was on my site I noticed that I had put up 108 Mega Traveller<BR>&gt;designs (more to come) and seventy assorted designs for TNE.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Its alright though my therapist says I'm getting better he says its just a<BR>&gt;result of my not having sufficient parts to repair the jump drive.<BR><BR>Contact Jesse, apparently he knows a guy who is an excellent parts fabricator...<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:25:52 -0500<BR>From: "Pat Connaughton" &lt;patconnaughton@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller on FFN<BR><BR>People,<BR>Take a look at this stuff. It's really quite good.<BR>I used a the site as reference to help a new player<BR>get into the genre.<BR><BR>Good stuff and some of it rather whimsical as well.<BR>Keep it up Martin!<BR><BR>Thanks<BR>Pat Connaughton<BR>e-mail - patconnaughton@earthlink.net<BR>homepage - www.home.earthink.net/~patconnaughton<BR>ICQ # 2535086<BR>"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>how to reign"<BR>Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:37:35 -0500<BR>From: "Pat Connaughton" &lt;patconnaughton@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Guildsman<BR><BR>Read It<BR><BR>(sorry to be so terse, however, that should do it)<BR><BR>Thanks<BR>Pat Connaughton<BR>e-mail - patconnaughton@earthlink.net<BR>homepage - www.home.earthink.net/~patconnaughton<BR>ICQ # 2535086<BR>"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>how to reign"<BR>Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:48:14 -0700<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Carried Away Gearheader<BR><BR>LOL!!!!<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of<BR>david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 4:00 PM<BR>To: traveller@ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Carried Away Gearheader<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Antony wrote:<BR>&gt;I think I got a little carried away.<BR>&gt;Checking what was on my site I noticed that I had put up 108 Mega Traveller<BR>&gt;designs (more to come) and seventy assorted designs for TNE.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Its alright though my therapist says I'm getting better he says its just a<BR>&gt;result of my not having sufficient parts to repair the jump drive.<BR><BR>Contact Jesse, apparently he knows a guy who is an excellent parts<BR>fabricator...<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:50:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Anthony Jackson &lt;ajackson@molly.iii.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: MHD powered Air/Rafts<BR><BR>Ludowick@aol.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; Also, the power plant tables give no requirement for radiator area for<BR>&gt; chemical power plants, (all other power plants, even fuel cells have <BR>&gt; surface area requirements).&nbsp; Shouldn't they require some surface area?<BR><BR>As chemical power plants are air-breathing engines, no.&nbsp; They eliminate heat<BR>through conduction.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:34:00 -0500<BR>From: Dragoness Eclectic &lt;cyhiggin@pipeline.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Relics from the Islands TCS PBEM<BR><BR>For those of you who may remember Steve Higginbotham's delightful<BR>Islands TCS PBEM Campaign of long ago...<BR><BR>I have finally put up on my website the Highguard ship designs and some<BR>of the Referee's house rules from the Islands TCS game. Enjoy!<BR><BR>More to come as time, Real Life, and my fanfic writing allows.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Cynthia Higginbotham<BR><BR>- -- <BR>"..all I do is tell the Truth to the gods.. and I may sometimes<BR>use it for a controlling spell because it is so rarely heard."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Indrajit, the Ramayana<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/&nbsp; ****&nbsp; &nbsp; cyhiggin@pipeline.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:42:50 -0500<BR>From: Dragoness Eclectic &lt;cyhiggin@pipeline.com&gt;<BR>Subject: GURPS Perry Rhodan?<BR><BR>On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; An addition to the "dreck that will survive" list:<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; It might even be fun (for a twisted GM willing to put a *lot* of effort<BR>&gt; into it) to come up with a variant Traveller campaign set in the Perry<BR>&gt; Rhodan universe.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; BTW, Loren? It occurs to me that if Perry Rhodan still enjoys any sort<BR>&gt; of popularity in Germany, a GURPS: Perry Rhodan might sell well there.<BR>&gt; And it's different enough from most US SF, while still being "super<BR>&gt; science space opera" that some of the US fans who bought the US<BR>&gt; editions of the book (again, back in the 70s) might buy a few copies<BR>&gt; also. <BR><BR>Hell, I would. (Looks fondly at her &amp; Steve's massive collection of<BR>American Perry Rhodan novels...)<BR><BR>And it would make a good GURPS Space variant--it was slam-bang space<BR>opera, finest kind, with all the elements role-players love: fast<BR>spaceships, small spaceships that private individuals could own, AI<BR>computers, super-powered mutant psionics, big honking space battles,<BR>assorted friendly, neutral &amp; hostile aliens, Terra uber Alles (Earthmen<BR>vs. the Decadent Alien Empire--I always did see the Vilani as being<BR>like the Arkonides), blasters and other fun anti-personal toys, sinister<BR>bad guy secret societies vs. the elite of Terran Intelligence (or<BR>whatever the 007 boys were called), neato alien artifacts, strange<BR>worlds, etc, etc, etc.<BR><BR>More Game Fun.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Cynthia<BR><BR>- -- <BR>"..all I do is tell the Truth to the gods.. and I may sometimes<BR>use it for a controlling spell because it is so rarely heard."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Indrajit, the Ramayana<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/&nbsp; ****&nbsp; &nbsp; cyhiggin@pipeline.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:43:31 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Measurement Conversion Software<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Here's a link that was recommended to me, and I thought I'd pass it on as an "Of<BR>Interest" piece.<BR><BR>- ----------<BR>When you need it,&nbsp; there is just nothing else that will do.<BR>Try the customising functions yourself if you want to convert kilopascals to<BR>hectacres&nbsp; or micromoles to foot-candles,&nbsp; cos it only does sensible things.<BR><BR>http://www.joshmadison.com/software/<BR>- ----------<BR><BR>Click on "Convert" for info and "Download" to download (surprise!).<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:58:26 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re:&nbsp; 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>&gt; 3)&nbsp; The Bicycle Thief (probably the quintissential, or at least best<BR>known,<BR>&gt;Charley Chaplain movie)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hmm.&nbsp; 'The Bicycle Thief' ('Ladri di biciclette') is the movie that<BR>popularized the &gt;Italian post-war 'neo-realist' style in the US, made in<BR>1948.&nbsp; No Chaplin in sight.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Doh!&nbsp; Brain-fart on my part - I was probably thinking of "The Kid."<BR>Actually, given the discussions of Lucan vs. Dulinor on the list, change #3<BR>to "The Great Dictator" a talkie made in 1940 starring Chaplin as,<BR>basically, Hitler.&nbsp; What do you think?&nbsp; Would SolSec be trying to supress<BR>this film, or laud it as an example of the sort of demagoguery that the<BR>Party avoids? ("See the evil possible when power is concentrated in the<BR>hands of one man?")<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- -----------------------------------------<BR>Warning - Engage brain before putting keyboard in gear<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:04:37 -0700<BR>From: Tod Glenn &lt;webmaster@travellercentral.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>on 10/19/00 3:19 PM, Jeff Zeitlin at jzeitlin@cyburban.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; OK, here are mine:<BR>&gt; <BR>[snip]<BR><BR>I was always partial to "Uncommon Valor".&nbsp; The bar is classic PC fodder.<BR>And since I run a lot of merc games, "Final Option".<BR>- -- <BR>Tod L Glenn<BR>webmaster@travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.travellercentral.com<BR>http://www.solsec.org<BR>http://www.grandsurvey.com<BR>http://travellerguns.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:01:26 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: The Guildsman<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Volker asked:<BR>&gt;&gt;Just read through most of this mag during lunch hour, and have to say it is<BR>&gt;&gt;brilliant! It is packed with articles that are well-written and<BR>&gt;&gt;informative, and it is long - 60 pages worth!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Link?<BR><BR>Hm, you're the second person who asked that. My assumption was that everyone<BR>received Jim's post on the subject.<BR><BR>OK, here it is again:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Starship/8023/gman.htm<BR><BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:35:18 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller stories<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Wed, 18 Oct 2000 21:29:04 PST, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard <BR>&gt; Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Another neat plot hook from GHoE is in the Long Night: what if Johnny<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Dalquist hadn't stopped the bombing? Earth might have to send mercenaries<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; in to prevent further damage.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"The Long Watch", and don't think his first name was Johnny.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Lt. John Ezra Dahlquist.&nbsp; The middle one stuck in my mind as unusual.&nbsp; Just <BR>&gt; checked it against GHoE.<BR><BR>Ah. I remembered "Ezra Dahlquist" from the roll calls in Space cadet.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;BTW, check out "Space Cadet", it's set in a future that's not the same<BR>&gt;&gt;as Heinlein's regular Future History, but "The Long Watch" is part of<BR>&gt;&gt;their history too. Along with a couple other incidents...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I used to have a copy of this, DKS cover and all.&nbsp; It went missing during a <BR>&gt; move; I'd sure like to find another.<BR><BR>I got my hardcover copy at a library sale. <BR><BR>I want hardcovers of all (or at least *most*) of the juveniles for the<BR>illustrations. When I get my scanner running, they're on the list to<BR>get scanned. Especially the spacecraft.<BR><BR>Being black and white they won't take up much space, even at hi-res.<BR><BR>BTW, "Space Cadet" is one of the few books where I didfn't merely not<BR>understand an idiomatic comment, but didn't even *realize* it was one.<BR><BR>It's in the part where they are getting ready to fly the Astarte. The<BR>comment was something along the lines of "If Commodore Arkwright can<BR>command &lt;the ship that serves as the academy&gt; with his lights out, I<BR>don't see why &lt;cadet name&gt; can't command the 'Tart with a busted wing"<BR><BR>It wasn't until more years than I care to think about later that I<BR>realized that the "lights out" meant "blind" and "busted wing"<BR>referred to the broken arm.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3185<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (rly-yh04.mail.aol.com [172.18.147.36]) by air-yh03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:14:08 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yh04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:13:33 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id UAA35998;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:11:49 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:09:35 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id UAA35873<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:09:35 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:09:35 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010200009.UAA35873@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3185<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thursday, October 19 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3186<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>Re: Name Generators<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3185<BR>Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: The Game Systems....<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>Re: Carried Away Gearheader<BR>Re: MHD powered Air/Rafts<BR>Re: MHD powered Air/Rafts<BR>Re: GURPS Perry Rhodan?<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR>Re: Going to England (OT)<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>Milieu 0<BR>Re: Core Sector<BR>Arrival Vengeance (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3185)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:47:24 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Emperor are less likely. Natually, local slang depends on planetary<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; government styles and religions.<BR><BR>Speaking of religion related swearing, it pays to note Russian and<BR>French patterns.<BR><BR>When things go wrong the Russians tend to start referring to the<BR>Devil's relatives. And the closer the relationship, the worse the<BR>situation. <BR><BR>On the other hand, the French tend to refer to holy/reliogious items.<BR>"Tabernac!" (a reference to the Tabernacle, which is the "box" on the<BR>altar where the blessed hosts are kept) or "Sacre Blue" ("holy blue",<BR>no idea what *that* is a reference to).<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Any "spacer" is apt to use "malf" (short for "malfunction") as a swear<BR>&gt;&gt; word. <BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; "... malfing piece of unrecycled garbage..."<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Agreed.<BR><BR>A usefuil term that may or may not be a swear word is FOD. Stands for<BR>"Foreign Object Damage". It can be anything from a jet engine inhaling<BR>a loose bolt left on the runway to some idiot leaving a tool inside a<BR>piece of machinery.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; with a different cultural<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; background than the one we have in the (western) world, different<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; expletetives are to be expected. what exepletetives do aslan, <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Something about lacking honour, running away, being puny. <BR>&gt;&gt; Actual insults,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; however, are an art form, so there are unlikely to generic insults.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Alas references to family and lineage. Think "Spanish nobles". <BR>&gt;&gt; "... su madre!"<BR><BR>&gt; Ah! Good.<BR><BR>Just remember the famous line from "The Virginian"(?) "You'd best be<BR>smiling when you call me that..."<BR><BR>Or a line from "Sixth Column"... "If somebody called me that, it<BR>wouldn't matter if he was smiling or not..."<BR><BR>BTW, "Sixth Column" (aka "The Day After Tomorrow") is a lovely example<BR>of how a small group with advanced tech and a small hidden base can<BR>overthrow an occupying power that *vastly* outnumbers them. <BR><BR>An "underground" with communications you can't even *detect* and<BR>weapons you have no defenses against is bad. When they've got well<BR>trained leaders and the patience to wait until they are *ready*, it can<BR>be fatal. <BR><BR>A lot of it can be directly translated into a Traveller setup. The only<BR>thing that'd be a problem is the race (species?) specific "death ray"<BR>pistols they issued folks when the uprising started.<BR><BR>That little item is *truly* unkind. It means that even if the enemy<BR>captures the pistols, they are useless to them. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Sport: Sir, the jump-drive is failing to engage. The jump <BR>&gt;&gt; grid is fused.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Leader: Electronics! Technician, fix it, fix it now!<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Technician(rolling eyes): Yes sir, as a technician I can <BR>&gt;&gt; certainly replace a<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; jump grid in while we're in combat. No problem at all.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; Gee, was Scotty trained by Droyne? :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Scotty: Leader, as a technician I must tell you I believe the engines are<BR>&gt; liable to fail under further stress.<BR><BR>I won't bother doing the reply. Shatner has "Droyne leader" down pat. :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 16:58:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Name Generators<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Someone else wanted to know the structure of the data and formulae I am<BR>&gt; using (as they don't have Excel, and want to write an actual program to<BR>&gt; do the job). Well, the only reason I did it in excel was that I needed a<BR>&gt; name generator for my traveller game last Monday night, and by<BR>&gt; mid-afternoon Monday, hadn't found one that seemed suitable on the web.<BR>&gt; Then I found the census data, and in about 10 minutes I had a basic,<BR>&gt; functioning name generator using simple vlookup functions in Excel,<BR>&gt; which was all I had to hand.<BR><BR>That was me, and I'll have a program as soon as I can spare the time<BR>(I'm having to clean the apart and reshuffle everything in it because<BR>of an inspection on Friday... )-:<BR><BR>&gt; The formulae are:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Male: =VLOOKUP(INT((RAND()*1219)+1),Names,4)<BR>&gt; Female: =VLOOKUP(INT((RAND()*4227)+1),Names,5)<BR>&gt; Last: =VLOOKUP(INT((RAND()*44400)+1),Names,INT(RAND()*2)+2)<BR><BR>About what I expected. <BR><BR>&gt; If anyone wants to make their own generator, I suggest visiting the web<BR>&gt; site I quoted earlier, though their data is about a 3MB download in<BR>&gt; total.<BR><BR>Luckily, the system I have a shell account on has two T-1 lines. It<BR>took about a minute to DL the files. And I zipped them up (getting an<BR>800k file) which is downloading to my Lan right now. Correction. It<BR>just finished downloading.<BR><BR>I expect that a program that works like yours will take only a few k,<BR>not counting the data files. I'm not sure if I can load all the data<BR>into RAM. But I expect that I can find a way to do it fast enough.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:22:53 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>I always thought that what killed Milieu: 0 was that the book is a piece of <BR>crap. I don't have First Survey, and I probably won't get it now that <BR>Imperium Games is well and truly dead, but I do have M0, and I can't play it <BR>as is. The map doesn't even match the rest of the book.<BR><BR>But the _idea_ behind Milieu 0 is a solid one, and it allows a true scout <BR>campaign to be run, I'm sure. In CT and GT (as the GT book states), there's <BR>just not any room for discovering new worlds.<BR><BR>However, M0 is not my favorite milieu. Personally, I think that I'd prefer <BR>something set in the Long Night, when merchants had the toughest time of <BR>all. I guess Andromeda just spoiled the Imperium thing for me a little.<BR><BR>ObTraveller: See above. ;-)<BR><BR>(On an aside, I'd like to say that GT's having Grandfather in a pocket <BR>universe somewhere is rather pointless.)<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 20:55:55 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3185<BR><BR>In a message dated 19-Oct-00 7:14:08 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt; Well, Emperor Strephon seems to have enjoyed _The Princess Bride_ <BR>&gt; enough<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; &gt;&nbsp; to have quoted it in his journals....<BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; It's one of the few classics from the Golden Age of 2-D movies to <BR>survive <BR>&gt; the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;&gt; Long Night.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;All right.&nbsp; Based on Emperor Strephon's quote from _The Princess Bride_<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;(and confirmed by LKW), we know that _The Princess Bride_ survived the<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Long Night.&nbsp; Further, based on LKW's remarks, few other 2-D movies<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;survived the turmoil.<BR><BR>Actually, as you can see from the above, I said few classics survived. <BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:12:59 +1000<BR>From: "The Roc" &lt;roc@kewl.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>In no particular order, my thoughts on what I could imagine to survive the<BR>Long night would be, and not because I like them all!<BR><BR>Harvey<BR>The Italian Job (the 3I remake will fail dismally as they will try and use<BR>air/rafts instead of minis and lose the flavour)<BR>Kelly's Heroes (my friends and I also saw this is a "bunch of PC's movie)<BR>The Weather Woman (and every system will have a theory on what it's all<BR>about!)<BR>Darkstar<BR>Blade Runner<BR>The Visitors: Corridors of Time (An excellent movie, but chosen simply<BR>because it's a sequal and someone will overlook the even better, first movie<BR>"The Visitors.")<BR>Sailor Beware<BR>Prisilla, Queen of the Desert<BR>Toy Story<BR>Many of the "Carry on..." movies<BR>Most of the Bob and Bing "road movies"<BR>The "Thin Man" series of movies<BR>Uh oh, I seem to have crossed the '10' limit!&nbsp; Sorry about that, I just<BR>started rolling... and I never included plain old non-movie cartoons like<BR>Bugs Bunny and Marvin the Martian, or OEDO 808 and Junk Boy... ;)<BR><BR>- -- The Roc<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:16:09 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; There again, I'd also consider decanonising TNE's setting, having the<BR>&gt; Imperium collapse through Hard Times, and run the clock forward a<BR>&gt; couple of hundred years or more to have a Fourth Imperium (I'm<BR>&gt; thinking Second Foundation / First Foundation rebuilt Empire here).<BR>&gt; &lt;dons flameproofing against TNE addicts&gt;.<BR>&gt;<BR>If you are going to allow the Imperium to collapse, then decanonizing TNE is<BR>simply inefficient. The final method of the collapse is not as important as<BR>the resolution. Maintiang the TNE line provides for a ressurected Imperium<BR>via a successful Regency. Without respect to TNE's many short comings (which<BR>I myself concede do exist), there is no reason why an official Traveller<BR>timeline cannot include that change of events.<BR><BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR><BR><BR>/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:37:26 +1000<BR>From: Robert Houghton &lt;rhoughto@one.net.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR><BR>Ludowick@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; 11). Hollywood Chainsaw Hookers: ho' lotta fun.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ludowick &lt;the chattering monkey on the shoulder of the TML&gt;<BR>&gt; (did I mention Gamera vs. Zigra?)<BR><BR>Or is that Gamera *on* Viagra?<BR><BR>Other Rob<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:27:00 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Bernie McGeehan &lt;einreb62@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Awwwww, not the Annic Nova, that was my first<BR>adventure.<BR>- --- Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; From: SD Mooney [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; Sent: Friday, 20 October 2000 8:38<BR>&gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; Subject: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I'd actually consider publishing a rules set based<BR>&gt; in 1116 <BR>&gt; &gt; pre-assassination, with data for TL up to 21.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; There again, I'd also consider decanonising TNE's<BR>&gt; setting, having the <BR>&gt; &gt; Imperium collapse through Hard Times, and run the<BR>&gt; clock forward a <BR>&gt; &gt; couple of hundred years or more to have a Fourth<BR>&gt; Imperium (I'm <BR>&gt; &gt; thinking Second Foundation / First Foundation<BR>&gt; rebuilt Empire here). <BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;dons flameproofing against TNE addicts&gt;.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hmmm.... why stop at TNE, we could de-canonise MT,<BR>&gt; and that would get<BR>&gt; rid of the problem of the DGP 'Forbidden canon', as<BR>&gt; well as the whole<BR>&gt; rebellion thing wrecking a perfectly good monolithic<BR>&gt; empire. Then we<BR>&gt; could also de-canon Supplement nine - fighting<BR>&gt; ships, the Imperium was<BR>&gt; never meant to have ships that large anyway... and<BR>&gt; then we had better<BR>&gt; get rid of High Guard.. for letting those<BR>&gt; monstrosities get built.. and<BR>&gt; now the Kinunir makes sense. <BR>&gt; We can also get rid of Leviathan (bye bye jump<BR>&gt; torpedoes), Annic Nova<BR>&gt; (none of this solar powered jump crap)..... and now<BR>&gt; we have a much more<BR>&gt; manageable universe....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ;)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Paul Harris<BR>&gt; Traveller Ref since 1984<BR>&gt; There is no Traveller Canon, there is just a game.<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>"I don't know much about what I like, but I do know Art."&nbsp; &nbsp; me @ the Rijksmuseum, Amsterdam (Terra/Sol 3)http://prattfall.tripod.com/index.html<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:12:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Also, as an aside... there was a mention of Trav filks now and then.&nbsp; I <BR>&gt; realized the other day just what a PERFECT song for the Rebellion era <BR>&gt; Genesis' "Land of Confusion" is.&nbsp; Thinking of the coming of the Black War <BR>&gt; during the little slow segue towards the end of the song is a bit <BR>&gt; chilling.&nbsp; Anyway, just thought I'd toss that out. =)<BR><BR>Oh thank you *very* much... I really needed that image.<BR><BR>BTW, have you ever seen the video?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:18:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I know that it is a concept that players struggle with, much like<BR>&gt; science today struggles with the ramifications of Quantum Mechanics.<BR>&gt; The constant time of a jump is something that is counter-intuitive.<BR>&gt; Consider:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 1) The time of jump is independant of the distance travelled.<BR>&gt; 2) The time of jump is independant of the mass involved.<BR>&gt; 3) A jump 0 (that is, jumping to the same hex) still takes a week<BR>&gt; even though you haven't 'gone' anywhere.<BR>&gt; 4) Intercepting a massive body (a gravity well) half way through a<BR>&gt; jump will precipitate the ship out of jumpspace - but the jump still<BR>&gt; takes a full week.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Now that last one really messes with causality! Suppose, for example,<BR>&gt; that you have a MOVING mass that is large enough to precipitate a<BR>&gt; ship out of jump (an asteroid, for example). Now suppose that a ship<BR>&gt; jumps one parsec (one hex) from system A to system B, while you are<BR>&gt; somewhere in between them with your movable mass (C).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'll draw it:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; C&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; B<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * ----------- o ----------- *<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Example 1: After the ship enters jump you move the mass through the<BR>&gt; path taken by the ship. Now, if you leave it there, the ship will<BR>&gt; emerge at the end of a week at the 100 diameter limit of your asteroid<BR>&gt; mid-way between systems. But what happens if you move the asteroid<BR>&gt; again before the week is up? Does the ship still emerge where the<BR>&gt; asteroid HAD been; or does it complete the journey?<BR><BR>Good question. I (and others) posed it to Mr Miller who has carefully<BR>avoided answering it. :-)<BR><BR>&gt; Example 2: Suppose the ship sets course to jump half a parsec to your<BR>&gt; asteroid, but after it enters jump you move the asteroid out of the<BR>&gt; way. Does it still emerge where the asteroid once was, or does it<BR>&gt; continue on for the full parsec it has expended jump fuel for?<BR><BR>That's easy. They come out where they aimed for.<BR><BR>The only way they *wouldn't* is if your Traveller Universe doesn't<BR>allow jumps to "empty space".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:03:10 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Carried Away Gearheader<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Antony wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;I think I got a little carried away.<BR>&gt;&gt;Checking what was on my site I noticed that I had put up 108 Mega Traveller<BR>&gt;&gt;designs (more to come) and seventy assorted designs for TNE.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Its alright though my therapist says I'm getting better he says its just a<BR>&gt;&gt;result of my not having sufficient parts to repair the jump drive.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Contact Jesse, apparently he knows a guy who is an excellent parts <BR>&gt; fabricator...<BR><BR>Yeah, but where's he going to get directionally stabilized<BR>lanthanum-lithium alloy. Or the tools to work it to the required<BR>tolerances. <BR><BR>Sort of like the village blacksmith trying to repair an aluminum block<BR>engine... <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:10:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: MHD powered Air/Rafts<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I was looking through FFS2 after reading about low-cost MHD turbine<BR>&gt; powered grav-vehicles here on the TML, and found that FFS2 has no rules<BR>&gt; for MHD turbine power plants.&nbsp; They're not even mentioned in the errata.<BR>&gt; Are they considered unrealistic or impractical?&nbsp; Have they been dropped <BR>&gt; for this reason?<BR><BR>&gt; Also, the power plant tables give no requirement for radiator area for<BR>&gt; chemical power plants, (all other power plants, even fuel cells have <BR>&gt; surface area requirements).&nbsp; Shouldn't they require some surface area?<BR><BR>Yep. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:12:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: MHD powered Air/Rafts<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Ludowick@aol.com writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Also, the power plant tables give no requirement for radiator area for<BR>&gt;&gt; chemical power plants, (all other power plants, even fuel cells have <BR>&gt;&gt; surface area requirements).&nbsp; Shouldn't they require some surface area?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; As chemical power plants are air-breathing engines, no.&nbsp; They eliminate heat<BR>&gt; through conduction.<BR><BR>They *can* be used on spacecraft. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:14:34 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: GURPS Perry Rhodan?<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Thu, 19 Oct 2000, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; An addition to the "dreck that will survive" list:<BR>&gt; [snip]<BR>&gt;&gt; It might even be fun (for a twisted GM willing to put a *lot* of effort<BR>&gt;&gt; into it) to come up with a variant Traveller campaign set in the Perry<BR>&gt;&gt; Rhodan universe.<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; BTW, Loren? It occurs to me that if Perry Rhodan still enjoys any sort<BR>&gt;&gt; of popularity in Germany, a GURPS: Perry Rhodan might sell well there.<BR>&gt;&gt; And it's different enough from most US SF, while still being "super<BR>&gt;&gt; science space opera" that some of the US fans who bought the US<BR>&gt;&gt; editions of the book (again, back in the 70s) might buy a few copies<BR>&gt;&gt; also. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hell, I would. (Looks fondly at her &amp; Steve's massive collection of<BR>&gt; American Perry Rhodan novels...)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; And it would make a good GURPS Space variant--it was slam-bang space<BR>&gt; opera, finest kind, with all the elements role-players love: fast<BR>&gt; spaceships, small spaceships that private individuals could own, AI<BR>&gt; computers, super-powered mutant psionics, big honking space battles,<BR>&gt; assorted friendly, neutral &amp; hostile aliens, Terra uber Alles (Earthmen<BR>&gt; vs. the Decadent Alien Empire--I always did see the Vilani as being<BR>&gt; like the Arkonides), blasters and other fun anti-personal toys, sinister<BR>&gt; bad guy secret societies vs. the elite of Terran Intelligence (or<BR>&gt; whatever the 007 boys were called), neato alien artifacts, strange<BR>&gt; worlds, etc, etc, etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; More Game Fun.<BR><BR>But if I remember things correctly, I don't want to be in a traveller<BR>ship if one of the ships from the Perry Rhodan universe comes calling.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:47:52 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR><BR>&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, if Jesse ever finishes the armor, we would have a way to deal with<BR>&gt;the Furry Fans next BayCon...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;imaginary ears lower and dewclaws slip unconsciously from their<BR>palm-sheaths&gt;&nbsp; Careful man, I happen to be a furry myself....&nbsp; ;o)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- -----------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 18:59:00 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt;From: Alan Huscroft &lt;a.a.f.huscroft@reading.ac.uk&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Going to England (OT)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, Rodney Basler wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I just found out that my company is going to be sending me to our UK<BR>office<BR>&gt;&gt; in Reading for two weeks - starting next week.&nbsp; While I expect to be<BR>buried<BR>&gt;&gt; in the office for most of the time, I might be able to break away for a<BR>bit<BR>&gt;&gt; on the weekend (I hope).&nbsp; Are there any listmembers in that vicinity?&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;There is a listmember in that vicinity.&nbsp; You can't escape anywhere in the<BR>&gt;world, you know.&nbsp; (Not even Antarctica -- the penguins have that covered.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Well met, sir.&nbsp; I'll be staying at the Reading Moat House, and it<BR>looks like I will be able to stay through Guy Fawkes day, so I may have an<BR>evening free.&nbsp; Leave a message with the hotel if you're free sometime.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:08:49 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:18:29 PST<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I know that it is a concept that players struggle with, much like<BR>&gt; &gt; science today struggles with the ramifications of Quantum Mechanics.<BR>&gt; &gt; The constant time of a jump is something that is counter-intuitive.<BR>&gt; &gt; Consider:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 1) The time of jump is independant of the distance travelled.<BR>&gt; &gt; 2) The time of jump is independant of the mass involved.<BR>&gt; &gt; 3) A jump 0 (that is, jumping to the same hex) still takes a week<BR>&gt; &gt; even though you haven't 'gone' anywhere.<BR>&gt; &gt; 4) Intercepting a massive body (a gravity well) half way through a<BR>&gt; &gt; jump will precipitate the ship out of jumpspace - but the jump still<BR>&gt; &gt; takes a full week.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Now that last one really messes with causality! Suppose, for example,<BR>&gt; &gt; that you have a MOVING mass that is large enough to precipitate a<BR>&gt; &gt; ship out of jump (an asteroid, for example). Now suppose that a ship<BR>&gt; &gt; jumps one parsec (one hex) from system A to system B, while you are<BR>&gt; &gt; somewhere in between them with your movable mass (C).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I'll draw it:<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; C&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; B<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * ----------- o ----------- *<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Example 1: After the ship enters jump you move the mass through the<BR>&gt; &gt; path taken by the ship. Now, if you leave it there, the ship will<BR>&gt; &gt; emerge at the end of a week at the 100 diameter limit of your asteroid<BR>&gt; &gt; mid-way between systems. But what happens if you move the asteroid<BR>&gt; &gt; again before the week is up? Does the ship still emerge where the<BR>&gt; &gt; asteroid HAD been; or does it complete the journey?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Good question. I (and others) posed it to Mr Miller who has carefully<BR>&gt;avoided answering it. :-)<BR><BR>Unless I'm mistaken, this is a problem that occurs only in GT. CT doesn't <BR>use the concept. Neither does T4. Regardless, I see jump as the entering and <BR>exiting of another dimension, and the only time a ship in jump makes contact <BR>with normal space in any way is when their entering and exiting. GT's Jump <BR>Masking is rather insane and non-canon. Ships have always historically been <BR>able to jump from point A to point B regardless of what's in between!<BR><BR>Example: A Far Trader is at Forboldn (Regina/Spinward Marches) and jump two <BR>parsecs directly coreward to Whanga. But Knorbes is in between. Jump masking <BR>states that it might not be able to do this, but it _must_ be able too.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:35:20 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Milieu 0<BR><BR>Okay - I'm desperate. In the M0 sourcebook, a map of the Core sector is <BR>provided, along with a list of worlds. My question is: WHAT THE HECK DOES <BR>THIS MEAN?<BR><BR>Why aren't the member worlds of the Chanestin Kingdom and Interstellar <BR>Confederacy marked? Why does the map focus on the Sylean Federation instead <BR>of the 3I circa 0? What does the little "." after many of the world names <BR>mean? I need to know!<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 03:18:21 GMT<BR>From: "Michael Bitrick" &lt;mbitrick@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Core Sector<BR><BR>Greetings,<BR><BR>Core sector was extensively reworked for T4.&nbsp; The closest thing to canon for <BR>M:1100 for Core would be the astrographic data shown on page 15 of the Atlas <BR>of the Imperium.&nbsp; The DGP Core subsector is based on this data.<BR><BR>Mike<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:27:32 -0500<BR>From: William Barnett-Lewis &lt;wlewis@mailbag.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Arrival Vengeance (was: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3185)<BR><BR>My own "Death of Fools" was built on the idea that given the story up to<BR>"Arrival Vengeance" we then get the divergence. Take up to there as given,<BR>and then, Norris decides to throw everything behind Strephon (given that "he<BR>believes") and sends the whole of the SM fleet back the way that the AV<BR>came. The surprise value to that many ships from that direction should<BR>express the rest well enough...May take several years, but virus wasn't an<BR>issue when I came up with this, now was it?<BR><BR>William<BR><BR><BR>on 10/19/00 7:09 PM, Traveller-digest at<BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:37:51 +0100<BR>&gt; From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 16:21 -0400 19/10/00, Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; The first is to accept customer demand and set the game in a<BR>&gt;&gt; revolution-less 1105 or 1116. The customer may not always be right,<BR>&gt;&gt; however, and the second option offers a much more exciting<BR>&gt;&gt; opportunity: they could truly embrace Traveller's core focus!<BR>&gt;&gt; , and push the game and its fans on to the Far Future. Both Far<BR>&gt;&gt; Future and Traveller's established audience need to move beyond the<BR>&gt;&gt; wasteful death of the Third Imperium, not to retreat into its past.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I'd actually consider publishing a rules set based in 1116<BR>&gt; pre-assassination, with data for TL up to 21.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; There again, I'd also consider decanonising TNE's setting, having the<BR>&gt; Imperium collapse through Hard Times, and run the clock forward a<BR>&gt; couple of hundred years or more to have a Fourth Imperium (I'm<BR>&gt; thinking Second Foundation / First Foundation rebuilt Empire here).<BR>&gt; &lt;dons flameproofing against TNE addicts&gt;.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Either that, or I'd let Strephon have gone back to Capital and nailed<BR>&gt; Lucan, then Dulinor.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And then, with the Imperium stretched to the limit, I'd have had the<BR>&gt; true saviours of humaniti, the Solomani Confederation, liberate the<BR>&gt; Old Expanses, the Rim, Daibei and Diaspora. And leave the setting<BR>&gt; poised with a cold war about to explode between the two...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dom &lt;gibbering&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>&gt; "We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>&gt; can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>&gt; http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3186<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (rly-yc02.mail.aol.com [172.18.149.34]) by air-yc03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:31:41 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-yc02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:30:49 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id XAA48427;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:28:49 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:27:16 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id XAA47855<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:27:16 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:27:16 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010200327.XAA47855@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3186<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3187<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR>Re: capitals<BR>Re: capitals<BR>Re: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: The Game Systems....<BR>RE: Going to England (OT)<BR>RE: Carried Away Gearheader<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>TNE boxed set<BR>Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Uniforms<BR>Re: Core Sector<BR>Re: Milieu 0<BR>Re: Animation<BR>Re: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:45:24 -0500<BR>From: Jimmy Simpson &lt;nimrod@santech.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 07:22 PM 10/19/2000 -0500, J. Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;(On an aside, I'd like to say that GT's having Grandfather in a pocket <BR>&gt;universe somewhere is rather pointless.)<BR>That is from CT Adventure 12: Secret of the Ancients.&nbsp; GT is just <BR>reiterating the information for people who don't have CT A12.<BR><BR><BR>Jimmy Simpson<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; nimrodd@mail.com<BR>"Cannot say.<BR>&nbsp; Saying, I would know.<BR>&nbsp; Do not know.<BR>&nbsp; So cannot say."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -Zathras (Babylon 5)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 19:59:37<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR><BR>At 06:47 PM 10/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Well, if Jesse ever finishes the armor, we would have a way to deal with<BR>&gt;&gt;the Furry Fans next BayCon...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;imaginary ears lower and dewclaws slip unconsciously from their<BR>&gt;palm-sheaths&gt;&nbsp; Careful man, I happen to be a furry myself....&nbsp; ;o)<BR><BR>I come in peace, phasers on kill.<BR><BR>Our last BayCon party was held directly above the furry party, a sight<BR>which made me regret giving up LSD, because then I would at least have an<BR>explanation for the things I saw.<BR><BR>What was more amusing was the furries being right next to Mara's Bar, which<BR>is run by the local Klingon Assault Group...<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 04:17:34 GMT<BR>From: "Michael Bitrick" &lt;mbitrick@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: capitals<BR><BR>Hello,<BR><BR>Here are the Imperial sector capitals as of 1116 per page 71 of the <BR>Rebellion sourcebook:<BR><BR>Alpha Crucis&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Solomani Rim<BR>Antares&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Antares<BR>Core&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Capital<BR>Corridor&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Depot<BR>Dagudashaag&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Medurma<BR>Daibei&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Warinir<BR>Delphi&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Anaxias<BR>Deneb&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Deneb<BR>Diaspora&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Libert<BR>Empty Quarter&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Nulinad<BR>Fornast&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Shumduur*<BR>Glimmerdrift&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Delphi<BR>Gushemege&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Usdiki<BR>Hinterworlds&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Old Expanses<BR>Ilelish&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dlan**<BR>Ley&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dukh<BR>Lishun&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tephany<BR>Magyar&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Solomani Rim<BR>Massilia&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Kaggushus<BR>Meshan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Lishun***<BR>Old Expanses&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Vaward<BR>Reaver's Deep&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; administered from Daibei<BR>Reft&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cyril<BR>Solomani Rim&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Dingir<BR>Spinward Marches&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Regina****<BR>Trojan Reach&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tobia<BR>Verge&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tripolis<BR>Vland&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vland<BR>Zarushagar&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Liasdi<BR><BR>NOTES:<BR>* GDW reserved Fornast Sector for referee development. This may vary from <BR>universe to universe.<BR><BR>** Ilelish was listed out of alphabetical order in the sourcebook.<BR><BR>*** In Rebellion sourcebook, a small part of the Imperium extends into <BR>Meshan sector.&nbsp; This "bump" does not exist in Atlas of the Imperium.<BR><BR>**** Norris moves the sector capital to Mora after 1116.<BR><BR>Hope this helps,<BR><BR>Mike<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:29:31 -0700<BR>From: "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: capitals<BR><BR>Thank you very much!<BR>Jeffrey Yin<BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "Michael Bitrick" &lt;mbitrick@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 9:17 PM<BR>Subject: Re: capitals<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Hello,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Here are the Imperial sector capitals as of 1116 per page 71 of the<BR>&gt; Rebellion sourcebook:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Alpha Crucis&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Solomani Rim<BR>&gt; Antares&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Antares<BR>&gt; Core&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Capital<BR>&gt; Corridor&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Depot<BR>&gt; Dagudashaag&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Medurma<BR>&gt; Daibei&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Warinir<BR>&gt; Delphi&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Anaxias<BR>&gt; Deneb&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Deneb<BR>&gt; Diaspora&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Libert<BR>&gt; Empty Quarter&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Nulinad<BR>&gt; Fornast&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Shumduur*<BR>&gt; Glimmerdrift&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Delphi<BR>&gt; Gushemege&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Usdiki<BR>&gt; Hinterworlds&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Old Expanses<BR>&gt; Ilelish&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dlan**<BR>&gt; Ley&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Dukh<BR>&gt; Lishun&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tephany<BR>&gt; Magyar&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Solomani Rim<BR>&gt; Massilia&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Kaggushus<BR>&gt; Meshan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Lishun***<BR>&gt; Old Expanses&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Vaward<BR>&gt; Reaver's Deep&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; administered from Daibei<BR>&gt; Reft&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Cyril<BR>&gt; Solomani Rim&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Dingir<BR>&gt; Spinward Marches&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Regina****<BR>&gt; Trojan Reach&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tobia<BR>&gt; Verge&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Tripolis<BR>&gt; Vland&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Vland<BR>&gt; Zarushagar&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Liasdi<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; NOTES:<BR>&gt; * GDW reserved Fornast Sector for referee development. This may vary from<BR>&gt; universe to universe.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; ** Ilelish was listed out of alphabetical order in the sourcebook.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; *** In Rebellion sourcebook, a small part of the Imperium extends into<BR>&gt; Meshan sector.&nbsp; This "bump" does not exist in Atlas of the Imperium.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; **** Norris moves the sector capital to Mora after 1116.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hope this helps,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Mike<BR>&gt; _________________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>&gt; http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:31:22 EDT<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR><BR>Ludowick@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; 11). Hollywood Chainsaw Hookers: ho' lotta fun.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Now there's a movie I'd never expected to hear mentioned again. The really <BR>scary part is that when I saw it three years back (most of it, that is; we <BR>just couldn't finish the movie...), it was on a LaserDisk...<BR><BR>Hmm. I haven't seen Frankenhooker on anyone's list yet...<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 21:05:15 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I know that it is a concept that players struggle with, much like<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; science today struggles with the ramifications of Quantum Mechanics.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; The constant time of a jump is something that is counter-intuitive.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Consider:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; 1) The time of jump is independant of the distance travelled.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; 2) The time of jump is independant of the mass involved.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; 3) A jump 0 (that is, jumping to the same hex) still takes a week<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; even though you haven't 'gone' anywhere.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; 4) Intercepting a massive body (a gravity well) half way through a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; jump will precipitate the ship out of jumpspace - but the jump still<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; takes a full week.<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Now that last one really messes with causality! Suppose, for example,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; that you have a MOVING mass that is large enough to precipitate a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; ship out of jump (an asteroid, for example). Now suppose that a ship<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; jumps one parsec (one hex) from system A to system B, while you are<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; somewhere in between them with your movable mass (C).<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I'll draw it:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; A&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; C&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; B<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * ----------- o ----------- *<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Example 1: After the ship enters jump you move the mass through the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; path taken by the ship. Now, if you leave it there, the ship will<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; emerge at the end of a week at the 100 diameter limit of your asteroid<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; mid-way between systems. But what happens if you move the asteroid<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; again before the week is up? Does the ship still emerge where the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; asteroid HAD been; or does it complete the journey?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Good question. I (and others) posed it to Mr Miller who has carefully<BR>&gt;&gt;avoided answering it. :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Unless I'm mistaken, this is a problem that occurs only in GT. CT doesn't <BR>&gt; use the concept. Neither does T4. Regardless, I see jump as the entering and <BR>&gt; exiting of another dimension, and the only time a ship in jump makes contact <BR>&gt; with normal space in any way is when their entering and exiting. GT's Jump <BR>&gt; Masking is rather insane and non-canon. Ships have always historically been <BR>&gt; able to jump from point A to point B regardless of what's in between!<BR><BR>Marc says otherwise. He's the one who came up with "jump masking". <BR><BR>&gt; Example: A Far Trader is at Forboldn (Regina/Spinward Marches) and jump two <BR>&gt; parsecs directly coreward to Whanga. But Knorbes is in between. Jump masking <BR>&gt; states that it might not be able to do this, but it _must_ be able too.<BR><BR>Do you have any idea how *small* a star is compared with a parsec? <BR><BR>It only needs to be a *little* off center to eliminate the problem.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 23:55:47 -0700<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 12:09 AM 10/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Damn..... Another Trav Tradition is born.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Next Emperor's birthday? Eh, chaps?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, if Jesse ever finishes the armor, we would have a way to deal with<BR>&gt; the Furry Fans next BayCon...<BR><BR>Party floor next year?<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 00:07:41 -0700<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>On Thu, 19 Oct 2000 13:34:58 -0400, Jonathan McDermott <BR>&lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Also, as an aside... there was a mention of Trav filks now and <BR>&gt; then.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt;realized the other day just what a PERFECT song for the Rebellion era<BR>&gt;Genesis' "Land of Confusion" is.&nbsp; Thinking of the coming of the Black War<BR>&gt;during the little slow segue towards the end of the song is a bit<BR>&gt;chilling.&nbsp; Anyway, just thought I'd toss that out. =)<BR><BR>Oh yes... I've had that thought since, well, MT came out.&nbsp; Always wanted to <BR>storyboard the "video" out (TML PBeM players will know what I mean), but I <BR>never did get beyond a handful of images.<BR><BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:13:46 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Going to England (OT)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 16:21 -0400 19/10/00, "Jones, Dean" <BR>&gt; &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; [looks out of window]&nbsp; There's a strange, bright yellow thing<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; in the sky.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; This is not normal.&nbsp; Maybe I should call the police.<BR>&gt; &gt;I see it too. I'll call the northern office and see if they have one.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I had a look out this afternoon, and we had one of those unidentified <BR>&gt; flying objects too. It seemed to be hiding in the normal grey and <BR>&gt; white sky dome. Do you think those blue bits I can see in the Dome <BR>&gt; are damage?<BR><BR>Wouldn't the atmosphere rush out and freeze-dry us all? No, I think it's<BR>more likely to be graffiti. The Sky Dome is much more durable than the<BR>Greenwich Money-Storage Dome.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:29:43 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Carried Away Gearheader<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com [mailto:shadow@krypton.rain.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 20 October 2000 03:03<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Carried Away Gearheader<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Dear Folks -<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Antony wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;I think I got a little carried away.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Checking what was on my site I noticed that I had put up <BR>&gt; 108 Mega Traveller<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;designs (more to come) and seventy assorted designs for TNE.<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;Its alright though my therapist says I'm getting better he <BR>&gt; says its just a<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;result of my not having sufficient parts to repair the jump drive.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Contact Jesse, apparently he knows a guy who is an excellent parts <BR>&gt; &gt; fabricator...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Yeah, but where's he going to get directionally stabilized<BR>&gt; lanthanum-lithium alloy. Or the tools to work it to the required<BR>&gt; tolerances. <BR><BR>EBay?<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:27:13 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Bernie McGeehan<BR>&gt; Sent: Friday, 20 October 2000 9:27 AM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Awwwww, not the Annic Nova, that was my first<BR>&gt; adventure.<BR>&gt; --- Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: SD Mooney [mailto:dom@cybergoths.u-net.com]<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Sent: Friday, 20 October 2000 8:38<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Subject: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; I'd actually consider publishing a rules set based<BR>&gt; &gt; in 1116 <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; pre-assassination, with data for TL up to 21.<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; There again, I'd also consider decanonising TNE's<BR>&gt; &gt; setting, having the <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Imperium collapse through Hard Times, and run the<BR>&gt; &gt; clock forward a <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; couple of hundred years or more to have a Fourth<BR>&gt; &gt; Imperium (I'm <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; thinking Second Foundation / First Foundation<BR>&gt; &gt; rebuilt Empire here). <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; &lt;dons flameproofing against TNE addicts&gt;.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Hmmm.... why stop at TNE, we could de-canonise MT,<BR>&gt; &gt; and that would get<BR>&gt; &gt; rid of the problem of the DGP 'Forbidden canon', as<BR>&gt; &gt; well as the whole<BR>&gt; &gt; rebellion thing wrecking a perfectly good monolithic<BR>&gt; &gt; empire. Then we<BR>&gt; &gt; could also de-canon Supplement nine - fighting<BR>&gt; &gt; ships, the Imperium was<BR>&gt; &gt; never meant to have ships that large anyway... and<BR>&gt; &gt; then we had better<BR>&gt; &gt; get rid of High Guard.. for letting those<BR>&gt; &gt; monstrosities get built.. and<BR>&gt; &gt; now the Kinunir makes sense. <BR>&gt; &gt; We can also get rid of Leviathan (bye bye jump<BR>&gt; &gt; torpedoes), Annic Nova<BR>&gt; &gt; (none of this solar powered jump crap)..... and now<BR>&gt; &gt; we have a much more<BR>&gt; &gt; manageable universe....<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; ;)<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Paul Harris<BR>&gt; &gt; Traveller Ref since 1984<BR>&gt; &gt; There is no Traveller Canon, there is just a game.<BR><BR>Anyone know what era the Cylon invasion would be set in?<BR>Antony<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:36:12 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anyone know what era the Cylon invasion would be set in?<BR>&gt; Antony<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Around 1985, wasn't it?<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 11:44:49 +0200<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; "Sacre Blue" ("holy blue", no idea what *that* is a reference to).<BR><BR>Clue: Watch Windows crash some time.<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:01:15 GMT<BR>From: stephen@stempest.demon.co.uk (Stephen Tempest)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:37:51 +0100<BR>&gt;From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>&gt;There again, I'd also consider decanonising TNE's setting, having the <BR>&gt;Imperium collapse through Hard Times, and run the clock forward a <BR>&gt;couple of hundred years or more to have a Fourth Imperium <BR><BR>Why decanonise it?&nbsp; The TNE rulebook itself had quotes from books<BR>written a century or more after the New Era, talking about the<BR>Reformation Coalition and Star Vikings as though they were ancient<BR>history.&nbsp; Just set T5 in that time period if you dislike the TNE<BR>setting.<BR><BR>Assume that the Regency and RC formed an alliance and resettled much<BR>of the old Imperial territory, but there are lots of political<BR>tensions on the best way to organise the government (and whether to<BR>call it an "Imperium" or not);&nbsp; Virus is beaten and forgotten about,<BR>except that there are now a few self-aware AIs around (and, maybe,<BR>something really nasty and strange in the old Core sector). When the<BR>Empress Wave arrived everybody just waved back then carried on with<BR>their lives.&nbsp; The other powers (Solomani, Aslan, K'Kree, etc) have<BR>finally started to recover from the Short Night themselves, but there<BR>are still huge areas of space on the borders between each power which<BR>are unexplored, uncontacted, and full of pocket empires and lost<BR>worlds.&nbsp; It could be a great period for a campaign, without any of the<BR>restrictions of having to fit into a pre-set history.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Stephen<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 01:07:13 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: TNE boxed set<BR><BR>I knocked over the *open* box for the TNE boxed set while cleaning.<BR><BR>I've found the 20 sided die and one 6-sider. I can't remrember if there<BR>was supposed to be a second six sider, and given *where* I knocked it<BR>over, I don't want to move furniture &amp; go crawling around if there was<BR>only one d6. <BR><BR>So, please drop me a note if you know how many dice there were. <BR><BR>Thanks!<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 03:40:01 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Anyone know what era the Cylon invasion would be set in?<BR>&gt;&gt; Antony<BR><BR>&gt; Around 1985, wasn't it?<BR><BR>More like 1980-81. "Galactica 1980", remember?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:18:47 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Anyone know what era the Cylon invasion would be set in?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Antony<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; Around 1985, wasn't it?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; More like 1980-81. "Galactica 1980", remember?<BR><BR>&lt;grimace&gt; I do now. Well, my cable's being installed tomorrow, so soon I can<BR>watch the SciFi channel, and all the repeats of 70s-80s shows I could want<BR>:)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:22:41 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Uniforms<BR><BR>Ye of the TML,<BR><BR>What sort of uniforms do you imagine for Imperial/Zhodani/etc. Navy, Marine<BR>and Scout personel?&nbsp; Officers vs enlisted?&nbsp; Branches?&nbsp; Colours, styles?<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:25:44 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Core Sector<BR><BR>&gt; From: "Michael Bitrick" <BR>&gt; Core sector was extensively reworked for T4.&nbsp; The closest thing to canon<BR>&gt; for M:1100 for Core would be the astrographic data shown on page 15 of<BR>&gt; the Atlas of the Imperium.&nbsp; The DGP Core subsector is based on this data.<BR><BR>I've had a look at the T4 stuff over the last day or so.&nbsp; It's not quite as<BR>incompatible with the CT stuff as I thought.&nbsp; It's main problem is its<BR>incompatibility with itself!<BR><BR>Anyway, it's all still a bit of a donkey.<BR><BR>Since I started this thread, I should explain where I was coming from.&nbsp; I<BR>have been thinking again about my perennial, on-again off-again,<BR>pie-in-the-sky Civil War project, and it occurred to me that since the<BR>Civil War affected the whole Imperium to one degree or another, it made<BR>sense to deal with the worldgen aspects of it by just providing guidelines<BR>for modifying the existing sectors.&nbsp; This is particularly suitable since<BR>established sectors like the Spinward Marches, Solomani Rim - and Core -<BR>are major potential adventuring locations during this period.<BR><BR>But then I ran into the problem that we don't have an accepted, non-broken<BR>official version of Core....<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:17:38 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Milieu 0<BR><BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" <BR>&gt; Okay - I'm desperate. In the M0 sourcebook, a map of the Core sector is <BR>&gt; provided, along with a list of worlds. My question is: WHAT THE HECK DOES<BR>&gt; THIS MEAN?<BR><BR>First, the M0 sourcebook is sadly typical of the T4 material, in that it is<BR>full of errors, particularly in being inconsistent between the map and the<BR>text.&nbsp; The map in M0 seems to have been taken from First Survey, which<BR>explains some of formatting stuff.&nbsp; The second version of M0 sourcebook, M0<BR>Campaign, included First Survey, and tried to tidy things up a little,<BR>but...<BR><BR>Apart from this - what's your problem exactly?&nbsp; It isn't quite clear.<BR><BR>The worlds are listed by hex numbers, corresponding to the hexes on the<BR>map.&nbsp; Can you read UWPs?&nbsp; They are explained very unclearly in T4.&nbsp; The<BR>"Full Data" stuff is whether or not the data on the worlds is available to<BR>the players at the start of the game, and can therefore be ignored,<BR>modified or whatever at your option!<BR><BR>&gt; Why aren't the member worlds of the Chanestin Kingdom and Interstellar <BR>&gt; Confederacy marked? Why does the map focus on the Sylean Federation<BR>&gt; instead of the 3I circa 0? What does the little "." after many of the<BR>&gt; world names mean? I need to know!<BR><BR>The Interstellar Confederacy ceases to exist in IY-1, and the Chanestin<BR>Kingdom in IY2.&nbsp; Their approximate positions are indicated in the text, so<BR>you should be able to fudge it.&nbsp; <BR><BR>The Sylean Federation was the basis of the Imperium.&nbsp; The Fed worlds are<BR>therefore the original members and core of the Imperium (with the Vilani). <BR>The other worlds all become part of the Imperium, eventually.<BR><BR>The little dots?&nbsp; I can't remember.&nbsp; In some cases the Vilani world names<BR>have been abbreviated.<BR><BR>Basically the whole thing is a terrible snafu.&nbsp; For most purposes, your<BR>best bet is to take whatever bits you like and use them, and replace<BR>anything you don't like with your own stuff.&nbsp; On the list, this is called<BR>Heresy, and is an old and honourable practice.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:30:00 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Animation<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 15:30:16 -0700<BR>&gt;From: "Luther Martin" &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Animation (was Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?)<BR><BR>&gt;[...] By typical Traveller TL, which is 14 to 16, we<BR>&gt;should have some pretty fancy stuff. You probably can't tell the difference.<BR>&gt;You also probably can't play the advanced TL entertainment on lower TL<BR>&gt;equipment, since you don't have enough processing power, memory, or<BR>&gt;whatever.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>IIRC, the "leader" of the Vargr corsairs who take advantage of the <BR>Rebellion is Okheosis, who is a digital construct -- interestingly, the <BR>first "virtual idoru" mentioned in Trav canon, since Okheosis is a singer.<BR><BR>So one hundred million Vargr can't all be wrong. ;)<BR><BR>Almost makes you wonder what would have happened if a Mother/God strain of <BR>Virus got hold of the computer that "ran" Okheosis....<BR><BR>Regarding processing power, just export the output of the rendering engine <BR>to... uhm, whatever the medium of choice is, and it doesn't matter if the <BR>person has appropriate processing power.&nbsp; My VCR doesn't have the <BR>processing power of a Reality Engine but it can show 'Mind's Eye' and <BR>various other eye candies just fine. =)&nbsp; If anything, a lower-quality <BR>medium will help to conceal the fact that the imagry was "artifical."<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:58:27 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 17:12:37 PST<BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: The Game Systems....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Also, as an aside... there was a mention of Trav filks now and <BR>&gt; then.&nbsp; I<BR>&gt; &gt; realized the other day just what a PERFECT song for the Rebellion era<BR>&gt; &gt; Genesis' "Land of Confusion" is.&nbsp; Thinking of the coming of the Black War<BR>&gt; &gt; during the little slow segue towards the end of the song is a bit<BR>&gt; &gt; chilling.&nbsp; Anyway, just thought I'd toss that out. =)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Oh thank you *very* much... I really needed that image.<BR><BR>Sorry; I just thought it made for a fairly poignant theme for the Black <BR>War. &lt;=\<BR><BR>&gt;BTW, have you ever seen the video?<BR><BR>A long time ago, sufficiently long ago that I can only remember bits and <BR>pieces, though I seem to recall some well-known group of puppets which <BR>parodied leading US political figures being in it.<BR><BR>&gt;- --<BR>&gt;Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt;leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3187<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-za02.mx.aol.com (rly-za02.mail.aol.com [172.31.36.98]) by air-za03.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:24:43 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-za02.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:23:56 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id KAA86034;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:22:31 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:20:51 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id KAA85744<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:20:51 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:20:51 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010201420.KAA85744@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3187<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3188<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: G-father<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: capitals<BR>RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>RE: Uniforms<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future<BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Regarding "The Secret of the Ancients"<BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>RE:Quantum Computing (was Jump Time)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:59:03 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: G-father<BR><BR>&gt; (On an aside, I'd like to say that GT's having Grandfather in a pocket <BR>&gt;&nbsp; universe somewhere is rather pointless.)<BR><BR>That's part of the common background I had to stay with. Why do you think it <BR>is pointless?<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:06:57 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: William Molendyk &lt;wmolendyk@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>- --- Antony Farrell &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anyone know what era the Cylon invasion would be set in?<BR><BR>Well, based on Battlestar Galactica 1980 I would say the near past.<BR><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; William Molendyk<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:07:27 -0500 (CDT)<BR>From: Steven Bonneville &lt;bonnevil@ima.umn.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: capitals<BR><BR>"Michael Bitrick" &lt;mbitrick@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Here are the Imperial sector capitals as of 1116 per page 71 of the<BR>&gt; Rebellion sourcebook:<BR><BR>Here's some supplementary comments.<BR><BR>&gt; Corridor&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Depot<BR><BR>Other sources say Kaasu (Corridor 1209), including the UWP files.<BR>Of course deciding who really has more influence in running Corridor,<BR>the sector duke or the largest naval establishment in the Imperium, <BR>may be a bit fuzzy.<BR><BR>&gt; Deneb&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Deneb<BR><BR>Note, though, that Deneb isn't *subsector* capital in its own subsector<BR>according to various sources; that's Usani (Deneb 2225).<BR><BR>&gt; Glimmerdrift&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; administered from Delphi<BR><BR>Which is a little interesting because Delphi is in the Core domain and<BR>Glimmerdrift (with Ley) is in the Gateway domain.&nbsp; IMTU, Imperial<BR>holdings in the coreward part of Glimmerdrift are run from Ley, and the<BR>larger pocket to rimward is effectively administered from Delphi.<BR><BR>&gt; Lishun&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Tephany<BR><BR>Originally, DGP had Lishun (Lishun 1511) as the capital in an early TD<BR>issue; after the change, the story was that Strephon moved the capital<BR>to Tephany in 1114.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt; Massilia&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Kaggushus<BR><BR>The Rebellion-era UWP files indicate Keum (Massilia 0815), but as the<BR>allegiance is Li this may indicate a change made by Lucan between 1116<BR>and 1120.<BR><BR>&gt; Spinward Marches&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Regina****<BR>&gt; **** Norris moves the sector capital to Mora after 1116.<BR><BR>The circa-1112 _Spinward Marches Campaign_ from CT shows Mora is the<BR>sector capital at that point.&nbsp; Of course, there may be other places<BR>that claim that Regina is sector capital; there's always been some<BR>confusion about that.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; -- Steve Bonneville<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:20:14<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>At 01:18 PM 10/20/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&lt;grimace&gt; I do now. Well, my cable's being installed tomorrow, so soon I can<BR>&gt;watch the SciFi channel, and all the repeats of 70s-80s shows I could want<BR>&gt;:)<BR><BR>Actually, SciFi has gotten much better in the last year or two.&nbsp; B5 in<BR>letterbox, good original series, and less reliance on bad SF from the 70s.<BR><BR>Now if they'd just get rid of "Crossing Over with John Edwards", and the<BR>twelve commercials an hour for it, I'd be happy.<BR><BR>They're even doing Bat-Tuesdays now.&nbsp; :)<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>"Some days, you just can't get rid&nbsp; of a bomb!"<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -Adam West, as Batman <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:25:48<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>At 11:55 PM 10/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Party floor next year?<BR><BR>I hope.&nbsp; I did jump up and down on the Party Maven about it on the last day<BR>of the Con.&nbsp; We lost a lot of foor traffic being on the third floor.<BR><BR>By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting Room.&nbsp; If we can't<BR>get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be looking for someone who can<BR>put together some CDs with appropriate music, interrupted by starport-ish<BR>announcments.&nbsp; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only.<BR>Please, no standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse five please pick up<BR>the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is emitting smoke.)<BR>- --<BR><BR>Duugirashir Irebamenagiin&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:35:47<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>At 08:22 AM 10/20/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;What sort of uniforms do you imagine for Imperial/Zhodani/etc. Navy, Marine<BR>&gt;and Scout personel?&nbsp; Officers vs enlisted?&nbsp; Branches?&nbsp; Colours, styles?<BR><BR>Ground Forces is at the printer, and will answer those questions in detail<BR>regarding the Imperial Marines and Army.<BR><BR>Or you can go to:<BR><BR>http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm<BR><BR>and see what I did for the BayCon party last year.<BR><BR>Based on canonical information, the Scouts are probably very loose about<BR>uniforms.&nbsp; The probaby have a dress uniform for those occassions when they<BR>needed one; but in the field each team dresses according to situation and<BR>taste.<BR><BR>The one thing I did make universal among Scout s was the TL-15 Vacc Suit<BR>from MT.&nbsp; This was a skinsuit, and just looked like the sort of things that<BR>a Scout would wear all the time.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:34:39 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Yes, this would be ideal. An open future rather than a retreat into history. This is what I believe would give Far Future and Traveller's core audience the best basis for going forward with T5.<BR>The idea of seeing what happens next in Traveller's timeline, of the game of the far future actually being set in the far future again, would be the killer selling point for T5. As I said, "Both Far Future and Traveller's established audience need to move beyond the wasteful death of the Third Imperium, not to retreat into its past. ".<BR>Does the idea of Mileu 200 really inspire people more than this?<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>On Friday, October 20, 2000, at 11:01 AM, Stephen Tempest wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:37:51 +0100 <BR>&gt; &gt;From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;There again, I'd also consider decanonising TNE's setting, having the&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;Imperium collapse through Hard Times, and run the clock forward a&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;couple of hundred years or more to have a Fourth Imperium&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Why decanonise it?&nbsp; The TNE rulebook itself had quotes from books <BR>&gt; written a century or more after the New Era, talking about the <BR>&gt; Reformation Coalition and Star Vikings as though they were ancient <BR>&gt; history.&nbsp; Just set T5 in that time period if you dislike the TNE <BR>&gt; setting. <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; It could be a great period for a campaign, without any of the <BR>&gt; restrictions of having to fit into a pre-set history.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:35:43 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Galactica 80 is non-canon. :-)<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Friday, October 20, 2000, at 04:06 PM, William Molendyk wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; --- Antony Farrell &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt; wrote: <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; Anyone know what era the Cylon invasion would be set in? <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Well, based on Battlestar Galactica 1980 I would say the near past. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:43:36 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 01:18 PM 10/20/2000 +0100, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&lt;grimace&gt; I do now. Well, my cable's being installed <BR>&gt; tomorrow, so soon I can<BR>&gt; &gt;watch the SciFi channel, and all the repeats of 70s-80s <BR>&gt; shows I could want<BR>&gt; &gt;:)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Actually, SciFi has gotten much better in the last year or two.&nbsp; B5 in<BR>&gt; letterbox, good original series, and less reliance on bad SF <BR>&gt; from the 70s.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now if they'd just get rid of "Crossing Over with John <BR>&gt; Edwards", and the<BR>&gt; twelve commercials an hour for it, I'd be happy.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They're even doing Bat-Tuesdays now.&nbsp; :)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>If only they'd rerun MST3K :(<BR><BR><BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:45:25 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Galactica 80 is non-canon. :-)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Galactica Canon or Traveller? <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:49:04 +0200<BR>From: "Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm" &lt;jenry023@student.liu.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>&gt; What sort of uniforms do you imagine for Imperial/Zhodani/etc. Navy, Marine<BR>&gt; and Scout personel?&nbsp; Officers vs enlisted?&nbsp; Branches?&nbsp; Colours, styles?<BR><BR>At least the scout personel uniforms are easy...<BR><BR>Tight sweaters in varying colors. Blue for officers, red for enlisted.<BR><BR>A small metal sunburst (doubles as a communicator) on the left side of<BR>the upper chest.<BR><BR>* Jens 'Spacejens' Rydholm&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; * Student at the university *<BR>| jenry023@student.liu.se&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | of Linkoeping, Sweden&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>| ICQ UIN: 3844745&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | (computer science/tech.)&nbsp; |<BR>* http://m227.ryd.student.liu.se * 22 years old, male&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; *<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:51:06 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Uniforms<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ian Ferguson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; What sort of uniforms do you imagine for <BR>&gt; Imperial/Zhodani/etc. Navy, Marine<BR>&gt; &gt; and Scout personel?&nbsp; Officers vs enlisted?&nbsp; Branches?&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Colours, styles?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At least the scout personel uniforms are easy...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tight sweaters in varying colors. Blue for officers, red for enlisted.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A small metal sunburst (doubles as a communicator) on the left side of<BR>&gt; the upper chest.<BR><BR>Sorry Jens, but the Scouts IMTU could eat Starfleet for breakfast, TL21 or<BR>not<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:58:59 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;game of the far future actually being set in the far future again,<BR><BR>Milieu 0, Milieu 200, the Long Night - they're all set in the "far future". <BR>Anything past 3000AD can be considered Far Future, can't it?<BR><BR>&gt;Does the idea of Mileu 200 really inspire people more than this?<BR><BR>It does for me. The Third Imperium is, has always been, and hopefully always <BR>will be the primary focus of Traveller. Deviations are necessary as breaks <BR>in the monotony, though. TNE and the idea to do the Rule of Man in T5 are <BR>good examples. Personally, I would be _very_ interested in playing in the <BR>Long Night. I think that including multiple milieux in T5 is going to go <BR>over well. And giving each its own core rule book will result in a tidy <BR>profit. Don't believe me? Look how well White Wolf is doing, and they are <BR>basically just reprinting the WoD rules to match a particular setting in <BR>each core book, just as T5 will. So there!<BR><BR>Look at it this way: Not everyone wants to just forget the Third Imperium, <BR>while others want to play in Milieux before it, and others want to play in <BR>milieux set after it. It's a matter of opinion.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:59:53 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Galactica. Fans, cast, producers and company want nothing to do with it. It was an exploitation sequel. :-)<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Friday, October 20, 2000, at 04:45 PM, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; Galactica 80 is non-canon. :-) <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Galactica Canon or Traveller?&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:18:00 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting Room. <BR>&gt; If we can't get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be<BR>&gt; looking for someone who can put together some CDs with<BR>&gt; appropriate music, interrupted by starport-ish announcments.<BR>&gt; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only. Please, no<BR>&gt; standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>&gt; owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse five <BR>&gt; please pick up the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is<BR>&gt; emitting smoke.)<BR><BR>I've always liked the one from season one of Babylon&nbsp; 5:&nbsp; in&nbsp; the<BR>episode with Jason Ironheart there is&nbsp; an&nbsp; announcement&nbsp; (in&nbsp; the<BR>background) ...<BR><BR>"Will all non-sentient personnel please clear corridor &lt;whatever&gt;"<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:21:34 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On Friday, October 20, 2000, at 04:58 PM, James Jensen wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;game of the far future actually being set in the far future again, <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Milieu 0, Milieu 200, the Long Night - they're all set in the "far future".&nbsp; <BR>&gt; Anything past 3000AD can be considered Far Future, can't it? <BR><BR>It is our far future, true, but it is part of a set future history. No alarms and no surprises. PCs can just lie back and not worry about anything, they know how it ends (and that it does). Star Trigger about to go off? Darrian's still there in 700 years, we've seen it, someone else must stop it.<BR><BR>&gt; I think that including multiple milieux in T5 is going to go&nbsp; <BR>&gt; over well. And giving each its own core rule book will result in a tidy&nbsp; <BR>&gt; profit. Don't believe me? <BR><BR>Not given the runaway success of this approach for T4, no.<BR><BR>&gt; Look how well White Wolf is doing, and they are&nbsp; <BR>&gt; basically just reprinting the WoD rules to match a particular setting in&nbsp; <BR>&gt; each core book, just as T5 will. So there! <BR><BR>I hadn't considered this example (I'd looked at Vampire/Dark Ages and Werewolf/Wild West), and yes it is a good one.<BR><BR>&gt; Look at it this way: Not everyone wants to just forget the Third Imperium,&nbsp; <BR>&gt; while others want to play in Milieux before it, and others want to play in&nbsp; <BR>&gt; milieux set after it. It's a matter of opinion. <BR><BR>I don't want to forget the Imperium, but I'd rather keep its spirit alive than rob its tomb. I don't want to retreat into future-historical re-enactment...<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:27:04 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:45:24 -0500<BR>&gt; From: Jimmy Simpson &lt;nimrod@santech.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;(On an aside, I'd like to say that GT's having Grandfather in a pocket <BR>&gt; &gt;universe somewhere is rather pointless.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; That is from CT Adventure 12: Secret of the Ancients.&nbsp; GT is just <BR>&gt; reiterating the information for people who don't have CT A12.<BR><BR>I don't know how anyone else feels, but _Secret of the Ancients_ is my<BR>number one CT pick for decanonization with extreme prejudice.&nbsp; The<BR>Ancients work as a continuing mystery.&nbsp; They suck as an 'adventure' which<BR>consists largely of being pulled through a lot of cheesy exposition.&nbsp; SotA<BR>works about as well as an X-Files episode in which a little grey guy walks<BR>up to Moulder and begins describing the entire alien plan in detail would<BR>- -- there's an initial satisfaction and excitement, sure, but pretty soon<BR>it gets to feeling silly and pointless.&nbsp; Nothing you can show explicitly<BR>will live up to the fevered imaginings you can induce with hints and<BR>misdirection and carefully managed dollops of evidence.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:43:03 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting Room. <BR>&gt; &gt; If we can't get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be<BR>&gt; &gt; looking for someone who can put together some CDs with<BR>&gt; &gt; appropriate music, interrupted by starport-ish announcments.<BR>&gt; &gt; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only. Please, no<BR>&gt; &gt; standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>&gt; &gt; owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse five <BR>&gt; &gt; please pick up the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is<BR>&gt; &gt; emitting smoke.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've always liked the one from season one of Babylon&nbsp; 5:&nbsp; in&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; episode with Jason Ironheart there is&nbsp; an&nbsp; announcement&nbsp; (in&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; background) ...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Will all non-sentient personnel please clear corridor &lt;whatever&gt;"<BR>&gt; <BR>I'll be happy to use my Receptionist Voice to record the comments (I will<BR>do some in Japanese if you like, too, just to have something non-English<BR>on there-- maybe I'll say whack things for the benefit of anyone who does<BR>understand...) if you guys want, but I can't do the actual recording cuz I<BR>don't have the equipment.<BR><BR>I also have a fine selection of rock, light rap, and pop music in<BR>non-English languages to add to the mix.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:43:59 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: "John P. Raynor" &lt;john.raynor@yale.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Regarding "The Secret of the Ancients"<BR><BR>Frankly, I think shedding *any* light on the nature of the Ancients<BR>(including very basic things, like their relationship to the Droyne)<BR>was a mistake.&nbsp; I would have portrayed the Ancients as being so<BR>alien, and so advanced, as to be almost completely incomprehensible.<BR>A citizen of the Third Imperium visiting an Ancient site would have<BR>no more luck understanding its contents than a paleolithic hunter of<BR>woolly mammoths in the wreckage of a computer programmer's office <BR>after a near-miss from an atomic bomb -- after all, to that <BR>paleolithic hunter, even basic things like the DESK, the CHAIR, the<BR>CARPET and the COFFEE-CUP wuold be pretty darn mysterious.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; - J. Raynor<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:45:21 -0700<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR><BR>Dewclaws don't work against composite laminates :)&nbsp; Of course, since this is<BR>PROP armor, it'd be made out of styrene, which dewclaws could shred.....<BR><BR>Maybe I'd better make the suits out of Kydex instead.&nbsp; 4x the cost, but<BR>they'd provide a real armor value, and least against blunt trauma and<BR>dewclaws :)<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rodney Basler<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 6:48 PM<BR>To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Well, if Jesse ever finishes the armor, we would have a way to deal with<BR>&gt;the Furry Fans next BayCon...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;imaginary ears lower and dewclaws slip unconsciously from their<BR>palm-sheaths&gt;&nbsp; Careful man, I happen to be a furry myself....&nbsp; ;o)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- -----------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:48:23 -0700<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>ROFLMAO!!!!&nbsp; Tim, my cousin John, and I have the facilities for such.&nbsp; We<BR>also have Sound Forge so we can tweak the sound files to behave just right<BR>:)&nbsp; Couple that with a good speaker setup and we could have quite a bit of<BR>fun.&nbsp; I'll also have to see if I can check out one of the LCD projectors<BR>from my work &gt;&gt;:D<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Douglas E. Berry<BR>Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 8:26 AM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR><BR>At 11:55 PM 10/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Party floor next year?<BR><BR>I hope.&nbsp; I did jump up and down on the Party Maven about it on the last day<BR>of the Con.&nbsp; We lost a lot of foor traffic being on the third floor.<BR><BR>By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting Room.&nbsp; If we can't<BR>get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be looking for someone who can<BR>put together some CDs with appropriate music, interrupted by starport-ish<BR>announcments.&nbsp; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only.<BR>Please, no standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse five please pick up<BR>the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is emitting smoke.)<BR>- --<BR><BR>Duugirashir Irebamenagiin&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>&nbsp; http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/sylea.html<BR>Inquisitor Maximus, Reformed Canon Church of Sylea<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 09:57:28 -0700<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>After brushing up on Vargr pronunciation we could do some in Vargr as well<BR>:)<BR>Ejsse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Kiri Aradia Morgan<BR>Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 9:43 AM<BR>To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR><BR>On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Trevor, Peter wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting Room.<BR>&gt; &gt; If we can't get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be<BR>&gt; &gt; looking for someone who can put together some CDs with<BR>&gt; &gt; appropriate music, interrupted by starport-ish announcments.<BR>&gt; &gt; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only. Please, no<BR>&gt; &gt; standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>&gt; &gt; owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse five<BR>&gt; &gt; please pick up the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is<BR>&gt; &gt; emitting smoke.)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I've always liked the one from season one of Babylon&nbsp; 5:&nbsp; in&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; episode with Jason Ironheart there is&nbsp; an&nbsp; announcement&nbsp; (in&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; background) ...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; "Will all non-sentient personnel please clear corridor &lt;whatever&gt;"<BR>&gt;<BR>I'll be happy to use my Receptionist Voice to record the comments (I will<BR>do some in Japanese if you like, too, just to have something non-English<BR>on there-- maybe I'll say whack things for the benefit of anyone who does<BR>understand...) if you guys want, but I can't do the actual recording cuz I<BR>don't have the equipment.<BR><BR>I also have a fine selection of rock, light rap, and pop music in<BR>non-English languages to add to the mix.<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>****************************************************************************<BR>**<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:00:42 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; After brushing up on Vargr pronunciation we could do some in <BR>&gt; Vargr as well<BR>&gt; :)<BR>&gt; Ejsse<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>I'm pretty sure 'Ejsse' isn't a Vargr word ;)<BR><BR>Dhgkhthoaeoets<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:01:31 +0200 (CEST)<BR>From: Graf Zahl aka Karsten Gorling &lt;kgorling@physik.tu-berlin.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>&gt;Example: A Far Trader is at Forboldn (Regina/Spinward Marches) and<BR>&gt;jump two parsecs directly coreward to Whanga. But Knorbes is in<BR>&gt;between. Jump masking states that it might not be able to do this, but it _must_ be able<BR>&gt;too.<BR><BR>Why. A stellar system is _small_ compared to the empty space. Even<BR>if we have a 2d Universe, the chance of "getting" into the 100D<BR>Limit of a Asteroid or star is really really small. Jumpmasking<BR>applies only for the correct destination in your target system. For<BR>effects during jump, I would consider it a plot device, if I _want_<BR>my players out of JSpacem, but nothing more.<BR><BR>IMHO Jump Masking adds a lot flavor to jumping. You could tell the<BR>players, what the whole astrogation is about!<BR><BR>- --<BR>Quantum Computing:<BR>so until I ping the NT-Sever, I don't know if it is up or down<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:03:44 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE:Quantum Computing (was Jump Time)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Example: A Far Trader is at Forboldn (Regina/Spinward Marches) and<BR>&gt; &gt;jump two parsecs directly coreward to Whanga. But Knorbes is in<BR>&gt; &gt;between. Jump masking states that it might not be able to do <BR>&gt; this, but it _must_ be able<BR>&gt; &gt;too.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Why. A stellar system is _small_ compared to the empty space. Even<BR>&gt; if we have a 2d Universe, the chance of "getting" into the 100D<BR>&gt; Limit of a Asteroid or star is really really small. Jumpmasking<BR>&gt; applies only for the correct destination in your target system. For<BR>&gt; effects during jump, I would consider it a plot device, if I _want_<BR>&gt; my players out of JSpacem, but nothing more.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; IMHO Jump Masking adds a lot flavor to jumping. You could tell the<BR>&gt; players, what the whole astrogation is about!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt; Quantum Computing:<BR>&gt; so until I ping the NT-Sever, I don't know if it is up or down<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>OT: doesn't pinging the server change it's state?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3188<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (rly-xa04.mail.aol.com [172.20.105.73]) by air-xa05.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:07:22 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:06:49 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA96750;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:06:08 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:04:42 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA96684<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:04:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:04:42 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010201704.NAA96684@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3188<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3189<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>RE: The Guildsman<BR>Re: On To The Far Future<BR>Re: Milieu 0<BR>Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>RE: The Guildsman<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>RE: Quantum Computing (was Jump Time)<BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR>RE: Jump Time<BR>RE: Quantum Computing (was Jump Time)<BR>RE: The Guildsman<BR>RE: The Guildsman<BR>UFO's<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR>Alien Planetary Weather<BR>RE: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:09:35 -0700<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>Oops, I was a little too quick on the keyboard :)<BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Jones, Dean<BR>Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:01 AM<BR>To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; After brushing up on Vargr pronunciation we could do some in <BR>&gt; Vargr as well<BR>&gt; :)<BR>&gt; Ejsse<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>I'm pretty sure 'Ejsse' isn't a Vargr word ;)<BR><BR>Dhgkhthoaeoets<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:10:43 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Guildsman<BR><BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson wrote:<BR>&gt; The article on Yori is extensive, although I confess to being <BR>&gt; disappointed that the Research Station wasn't mentioned. Maybe<BR>&gt; I should send him my version (with deckplans - sorry, _maps -<BR>&gt; hmm)?&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>You may have recognised&nbsp; the&nbsp; article&nbsp; as&nbsp; a&nbsp; subset&nbsp; of&nbsp; my&nbsp; TML<BR>Landgrab write-up of Yori.&nbsp; I did tell Jim it wasn't finished ...<BR>he's going to print it&nbsp; in&nbsp; installments&nbsp; (or&nbsp; atleast&nbsp; 2&nbsp; parts,<BR>anyway).&nbsp; I deliberately left the Research Station to one side to<BR>start with as I wanted Yori to be more than just a landing pad, a<BR>starport bar, some sand, and a Research Station.<BR><BR>I *do* have extensive maps of Research&nbsp; Station&nbsp; Beta:&nbsp; an&nbsp; outer<BR>perimeter fence encloses an area of&nbsp; over&nbsp; 200,000 m2&nbsp; containing<BR>several 1 and 2&nbsp; story&nbsp; buildings&nbsp; (labs,&nbsp; offices,&nbsp; warehousing,<BR>vehicle&nbsp; storage,&nbsp; residences,&nbsp;&nbsp; etc).&nbsp;&nbsp; Beneath&nbsp;&nbsp; that&nbsp;&nbsp; are&nbsp;&nbsp; 4<BR>underground levels of approx 7250 m2 each (equivalent to&nbsp; a&nbsp; ship<BR>of 13000 dtons).&nbsp; That's a lot of 2x3 gaming&nbsp; square&nbsp; staterooms!<BR>However, it is unlikely they will be posted&nbsp; to&nbsp; the&nbsp; web&nbsp; before<BR>Christmas.<BR><BR>In the meantime, Yori's army will be posted this weekend.&nbsp; I just<BR>have to design a utility vehicle, and a general&nbsp; purpose&nbsp; fighter<BR>for COACC.&nbsp; I'm also trying to finish the 2nd (of 3) adventure.<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>"Yori.&nbsp; Desert planet.&nbsp; Also known as ... what's this stinkhole?"<BR>Outtake from a recent documantary on the Exploration Channel.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:11:51 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future<BR><BR>SOTA is my favourite Traveller Adventure. :-)<BR>You just need to get a bit more creative in maintaining the mystery after running it. It includes enough seeds to have players still wondering and searching.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Friday, October 20, 2000, at 05:27 PM, Craig Berry wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2000 22:45:24 -0500 <BR>&gt; &gt; From: Jimmy Simpson &lt;nimrod@santech.com&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;(On an aside, I'd like to say that GT's having Grandfather in a pocket&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;universe somewhere is rather pointless.) <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; That is from CT Adventure 12: Secret of the Ancients.&nbsp; GT is just&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; reiterating the information for people who don't have CT A12. <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; I don't know how anyone else feels, but _Secret of the Ancients_ is my <BR>&gt; number one CT pick for decanonization with extreme prejudice.&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 13:13:37 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: Milieu 0<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; Okay - I'm desperate. In the M0 sourcebook, a map of the Core sector is <BR>&gt;provided, along with a list of worlds. My question is: WHAT THE HECK DOES <BR>&gt;THIS MEAN?<BR><BR>Damn near nothing.&nbsp; The map, as a record of system positions, is fine, but the accompanying UWPs are utter nonsense, generated randomly by computer and tacked onto the finished manuscript in place of the map and stats that were supposed to go there.&nbsp; Keep the map, keep the 2nd-4th digits of the UWPs, and make up the rest based on what you think would be appropriate from the text -- you can't possibly do worse than the published version (BTW, have you noticed that the Govt Type and Law Level are identical for every single system?&nbsp; A nice little program glitch that somehow evaded the attention of everybody at Imperium Games until after publication!)<BR><BR><BR>&gt;Why aren't the member worlds of the Chanestin Kingdom and Interstellar <BR>&gt;Confederacy marked? Why does the map focus on the Sylean Federation instead <BR>&gt;of the 3I circa 0? What does the little "." after many of the world names <BR>&gt;mean? I need to know!<BR><BR>The text gives hints (and even specific hex numbers?) of the locations of these empires, IIRC.&nbsp; Note that the names in the text don't match the names on the map.&nbsp; Also note that their UWPs are nonsensical given what the text says.&nbsp; See above for why this is so.<BR><BR>The "."s serve to differentiate which world-names were generated randomly and which were done by hand.&nbsp; The vast majority of world-names are randomly generated Vilani words; a few are specifically named to match 'canon' sources.&nbsp; One type has the ".", the other doesn't.&nbsp; It should be obvious which is which.&nbsp; Note that when you're re-generating all these systems, you should also probably generate new names for the random systems. <BR><BR>FWIW, much of the M:0 text is adapted from the Library Data in the issues of 'The Traveller's Digest' which covered Core Sector (#9-11(?)).&nbsp; If you can track those down, they'll help you make sense of what was supposed to be going on, but I'm pretty sure they didn't include maps either (a subsector or two, perhaps?).<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:15:10 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR><BR>&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;imaginary ears lower and dewclaws slip unconsciously from their<BR>&gt;&gt;palm-sheaths&gt;&nbsp; Careful man, I happen to be a furry myself....&nbsp; ;o)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I come in peace, phasers on kill.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Our last BayCon party was held directly above the furry party, a sight<BR>&gt;which made me regret giving up LSD, because then I would at least have an<BR>&gt;explanation for the things I saw.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;lashes tail briefly in irritation, then relaxes and laughs&gt;&nbsp; I can<BR>agree with you on the weirdness factor.&nbsp; I've been a staff member for<BR>ConFurence for the last three years, and have even been invited to speak on<BR>one of the panels for Further Confusion (makeup and bodypainting), but even<BR>I have to admit that some furries take things to extremes.&nbsp; &lt;/facetious mode<BR>on&gt; Not that Sci-Fi fans or gamers ever take things to extremes...no, heaven<BR>forbid ....(remembering the person who was remodeling his bedroom in<BR>faux-stone walls and wrought-iron sconces)&lt;/facetious mode off&gt;&nbsp; In all<BR>seriousness, we Traveller players tend to be the most "normal" and sedate of<BR>the bunch.&nbsp; Ever seen some of the Vampire/World of Darkness players?<BR>&lt;shudder&gt;.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- ----------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:16:50 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Guildsman<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; underground levels of approx 7250 m2 each (equivalent to&nbsp; a&nbsp; ship<BR>&gt; of 13000 dtons).&nbsp; That's a lot of 2x3 gaming&nbsp; square&nbsp; staterooms!<BR>&gt; However, it is unlikely they will be posted&nbsp; to&nbsp; the&nbsp; web&nbsp; before<BR>&gt; Christmas.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In the meantime, Yori's army will be posted this weekend.&nbsp; I just<BR>&gt; have to design a utility vehicle, and a general&nbsp; purpose&nbsp; fighter<BR>&gt; for COACC.&nbsp; I'm also trying to finish the 2nd (of 3) adventure.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Regards PLST<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Yori.&nbsp; Desert planet.&nbsp; Also known as ... what's this stinkhole?"<BR>&gt; Outtake from a recent documantary on the Exploration Channel.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Any cultural/racial info on the Zhurphani? They seem fascinating and I think<BR>I'll be adding them to my Traveller campaign<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:19:28 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR><BR>&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting Room.&nbsp; If we can't<BR>&gt;get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be looking for someone who can<BR>&gt;put together some CDs with appropriate music, interrupted by starport-ish<BR>&gt;announcments.&nbsp; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only.<BR>&gt;Please, no standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>&gt;owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse five please pick up<BR>&gt;the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is emitting smoke.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;ROTFL&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;once again able to breathe&gt; When is the con?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- -------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think, they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 12:14:14 -0500<BR>From: "Pat Connaughton" &lt;patconnaughton@earthlink.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>Please advise,<BR>Admit to needing more info on "jump masking"<BR>Need to mess with PC's minds<BR><BR>Thanks<BR>Pat Connaughton<BR>e-mail - patconnaughton@earthlink.net<BR>homepage - www.home.earthink.net/~patconnaughton<BR>ICQ # 2535086<BR>"He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>how to reign"<BR>Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:22:59 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Quantum Computing (was Jump Time)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Quantum Computing:<BR>&gt; &gt; so until I ping the NT-Sever, I don't know if it is up or down<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; OT: doesn't pinging the server change it's state?<BR><BR>No, that would imply the NT-Server was "up" or "down" before&nbsp; you<BR>ping it.&nbsp; Actually, it would be neither ... it would be a quantum<BR>probability wave function that collapses into&nbsp; the&nbsp; certainty&nbsp; of<BR>"up" or "down" when pinged.<BR><BR>(Hmmm ... that would explain a lot now that I think about it.)<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:30:50 -0700<BR>From: "Jesse Degraff" &lt;jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR><BR>Details can be had at:<BR>http://www.baycon.org/2001/<BR><BR>Jesse<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Rodney Basler<BR>Sent: Friday, October 20, 2000 10:19 AM<BR>To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating<BR><BR><BR>&gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting Room.&nbsp; If we can't<BR>&gt;get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be looking for someone who can<BR>&gt;put together some CDs with appropriate music, interrupted by starport-ish<BR>&gt;announcments.&nbsp; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only.<BR>&gt;Please, no standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>&gt;owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse five please pick up<BR>&gt;the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is emitting smoke.)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;ROTFL&gt;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;once again able to breathe&gt; When is the con?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- -------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - They just tell me to think, they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:31:43 -0700<BR>From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Rob Myers wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; I think that including multiple milieux in T5 is going to go<BR>&gt; &gt; over well. And giving each its own core rule book will result in a tidy<BR>&gt; &gt; profit. Don't believe me?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Not given the runaway success of this approach for T4, no.<BR><BR>T4 didn't fail because of the Milieu it was set in. You DO know that,<BR>don't you? <BR><BR>It failed because the first people to run IG didn't know how to run a<BR>business, then the second bunch didn't know how to run a gaming<BR>business, then turned into theives. <BR><BR>Both groups thought things like consistency (are the ships you put in<BR>the book designable with the system you put in the book?) proofreading,<BR>and playtesting weren't nearly as important as cool Foss paintings.<BR><BR>And I LIKED the Foss paintings!!<BR><BR>&gt; I don't want to forget the Imperium, but I'd rather keep its spirit alive than rob its tomb. I don't want to retreat into future-historical re-enactment...<BR><BR>Ok, then play GT. GT _IS_ the current Third Imperium. Wide open, and no<BR>one knows (well, almost no one, I hope Loren and Steve have some ideas<BR>;-) what's going to happen. <BR><BR>The historical background (the once and future history of the Glorious<BR>Third Imperium) which is, after all, what we're discussing here, is<BR>already fragmented. The official GDW line ended with TNE, post-1200,<BR>post-Virus, with the Regency and Reformation Coalition starting to<BR>retake the shattered Imperium. If you want to play in the evolving<BR>future of the Traveller universe, play there!<BR><BR>Any call to 'de-canonise' this, that or the other, merely fragments the<BR>gaming universe into multiverses.<BR><BR>1)"The Third Imperium Strephon Steps Out Of The Shower, No Rebellion<BR>Happened"<BR>2)"The Third Imperium The Rebellion Happened But Virus Is A Crock"<BR>3)"The Third Imperium, Virus Is Real, We're Space Vikings So Deal With<BR>It"<BR>4)...???<BR><BR>In reality, &lt;waves hand around...'This is where we're at, right?'&gt; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It Just Doesn't Matter.<BR><BR>&lt;cue that inspiring scene from 'Meatballs'.."It just doesn't matter...it<BR>just doesn't matter... Let's all get up, stomp around in a circle and<BR>chant this for a while...;-) &gt;<BR><BR>The Traveller universe is what YOU make of it. Always has been, always<BR>will be.<BR><BR>As a GM you have complete, total and utter license to do whatever the<BR>heck you want in your version of the universe. <BR><BR>(The crochety old GM in me is muttering that not only do you have the<BR>right, you have the _obligation_ to do so, so your players DON'T know<BR>what that Star Trigger is going to do, but that's another rant) <BR><BR>The _hard_ part is that you have complete, total and utter license to do<BR>whatever the heck you want in your version of the universe.<BR><BR>Want a strict 'You have a ship type C with Jump Drive B and Maneuver<BR>Drive D' Classic Traveller Universe? Go ahead...you don't have to demand<BR>that everything _else_ published for the game be declared null and void.<BR><BR>Want blasters, invulnerable ships screens, and transporters? Go ahead,<BR>there's no Canon Cop standing by to arrest you!<BR><BR>Want gritty, cyberpunk surrealism, with body mods, Omni-controlling<BR>megacorps and decadent nobles? Go ahead! We won't even sic the Spanish<BR>Inquisition on you. Heck, I'd be interested in such a game, sounds like<BR>fun!<BR><BR>Finally, if selling different Milieux is such a bad business model, to<BR>what do you ascribe the ongoing success of GURPS? ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Bruce Johnson<BR>University of Arizona<BR>College of Pharmacy<BR>Information Technology Group<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:27:01<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating <BR><BR>At 10:19 AM 10/20/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;once again able to breathe&gt; When is the con?<BR><BR>Next Memorial Day weekend at the Doubletree San Jose.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:31:17 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Jump Time<BR><BR>Jump masking is a side effect of the 100D precipitation rule. Specifically,<BR>if a ship in Jump space&nbsp; passes through an area a j-space corresponding to<BR>the presence of a large gravitaional source, the ship is dropped out of<BR>j-space if the gravitational distortion is strong enough (for most purposes,<BR>within 100D of the centre of mass).<BR><BR>Obviously, attempting to jump through a hex occupied by a planetary system<BR>runs the risk of interaction between the jump field and the gravitational<BR>field of the system. Note that this interaction is not certain...a hex<BR>represents a distance is 3.26 light years side to side. I think it is safe<BR>to say that most star systems are smaller than a parsec.<BR><BR>Jump masking occurs if the destination cannot be reached without passing<BR>through an area of gravitational distortion as described above. The most<BR>likely effect of jump masking is not that a ship will be forced out of jump<BR>space half way if it tries to 'jump over' a star system. The most likely<BR>effect is that a ship drops into normal space on the wrong side of the star<BR>and has to waste tons of time manuevering in real space to get to the target<BR>planet (diagram available on request). <BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Please advise,<BR>&gt; Admit to needing more info on "jump masking"<BR>&gt; Need to mess with PC's minds<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Thanks<BR>&gt; Pat Connaughton<BR>&gt; e-mail - patconnaughton@earthlink.net<BR>&gt; homepage - www.home.earthink.net/~patconnaughton<BR>&gt; ICQ # 2535086<BR>&gt; "He who knows not how to dissemble knows not<BR>&gt; how to reign"<BR>&gt; Tiberius, Emperator and Princips of Rome<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:32:49 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Quantum Computing (was Jump Time)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Trevor, Peter [mailto:Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: 20 October 2000 18:23<BR>&gt; To: 'traveller@lists.ient.com'<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: Quantum Computing (was Jump Time)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Quantum Computing:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; so until I ping the NT-Sever, I don't know if it is up or down<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; OT: doesn't pinging the server change it's state?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No, that would imply the NT-Server was "up" or "down" before&nbsp; you<BR>&gt; ping it.&nbsp; Actually, it would be neither ... it would be a quantum<BR>&gt; probability wave function that collapses into&nbsp; the&nbsp; certainty&nbsp; of<BR>&gt; "up" or "down" when pinged.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (Hmmm ... that would explain a lot now that I think about it.)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>True, I was thinking of something else.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:36:22 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Guildsman<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; Any cultural/racial info on the Zhurphani? They seem fascinating<BR>&gt; and I think I'll be adding them to my Traveller campaign<BR><BR>(Geez, this is becoming a full time job!)<BR><BR>Okay, at the moment I am compiling a set of capsule&nbsp; descriptions<BR>of key individuals, many of them Zhurphani.&nbsp; (That&nbsp; actually&nbsp; got<BR>me sidetracked into detailing the army.)<BR><BR>The set of&nbsp; 3&nbsp; adventures&nbsp; will&nbsp; reveal&nbsp; some&nbsp; aspects&nbsp; of&nbsp; their<BR>religion.&nbsp; The first, "The Silence Of The Goatlings" has&nbsp; already<BR>been posted.&nbsp; "The Name Of The Cactus" should be done&nbsp; soon,&nbsp; and<BR>"The Cruel Undersea" should be done by done by Christmas.<BR><BR>Between what's there already and what's in the&nbsp; works,&nbsp; is&nbsp; there<BR>anything specific you want to know about&nbsp; Zhurphani&nbsp; culture/race<BR>that's not already been mentioned?<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>"Yori.&nbsp; Desert planet.&nbsp; Also known as ... what's this stinkhole?"<BR>Outtake from a recent documantary on the Exploration Channel.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:39:49 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: The Guildsman<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Any cultural/racial info on the Zhurphani? They seem fascinating<BR>&gt; &gt; and I think I'll be adding them to my Traveller campaign<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (Geez, this is becoming a full time job!)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Okay, at the moment I am compiling a set of capsule&nbsp; descriptions<BR>&gt; of key individuals, many of them Zhurphani.&nbsp; (That&nbsp; actually&nbsp; got<BR>&gt; me sidetracked into detailing the army.)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The set of&nbsp; 3&nbsp; adventures&nbsp; will&nbsp; reveal&nbsp; some&nbsp; aspects&nbsp; of&nbsp; their<BR>&gt; religion.&nbsp; The first, "The Silence Of The Goatlings" has&nbsp; already<BR>&gt; been posted.&nbsp; "The Name Of The Cactus" should be done&nbsp; soon,&nbsp; and<BR>&gt; "The Cruel Undersea" should be done by done by Christmas.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Between what's there already and what's in the&nbsp; works,&nbsp; is&nbsp; there<BR>&gt; anything specific you want to know about&nbsp; Zhurphani&nbsp; culture/race<BR>&gt; that's not already been mentioned?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Not really. I was thinking of knocking up my own version using GURPS and<BR>wanted to avoid revisionism. I think I can wait and see :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:46:21 GMT<BR>From: "Erick ..." &lt;siniypiva@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: UFO's<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; [looks out of window]&nbsp; There's a strange, bright yellow thing<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; in the sky.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; &gt; This is not normal.&nbsp; Maybe I should call the police.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;I see it too. I'll call the northern office and see if they have one.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;I had a look out this afternoon, and we had one of those unidentified<BR>&gt;&gt;flying objects too. It seemed to be hiding in the normal grey and<BR>&gt;&gt;white sky dome. Do you think those blue bits I can see in the Dome<BR>&gt;&gt;are damage?<BR><BR>&gt;Wouldn't the atmosphere rush out and freeze-dry us all? No, I think it's<BR>&gt;more likely to be graffiti. The Sky Dome is much more durable than the<BR>&gt;Greenwich Money-Storage Dome.<BR><BR>AHA! I see that the thiefs that stole our yellow glowing thing have replaced <BR>it with your dome.<BR><BR>&nbsp; erick<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:46:26 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt; Any call to 'de-canonise' this, that or the other, merely<BR>&gt; fragments the gaming universe into multiverses.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 1)"The Third Imperium Strephon Steps Out Of The Shower, No<BR>&gt; Rebellion Happened"<BR>&gt; 2)"The Third Imperium The Rebellion Happened But Virus Is A<BR>&gt; Crock"<BR>&gt; 3)"The Third Imperium, Virus Is Real, We're Space Vikings So<BR>&gt; Deal With It"<BR>&gt; 4)...???<BR><BR>Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; Imagine an<BR>adventure where you have to save Strephon from assassination even<BR>though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; make&nbsp; getting<BR>round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission:<BR>to reintegrate the timeline!<BR><BR><BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>"Yori.&nbsp; Desert planet.&nbsp; Also known as ... what's this stinkhole?"<BR>Outtake from a recent documantary on the Exploration Channel.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:55:18 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Bruce Johnson wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Any call to 'de-canonise' this, that or the other, merely<BR>&gt; &gt; fragments the gaming universe into multiverses.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; 1)"The Third Imperium Strephon Steps Out Of The Shower, No<BR>&gt; &gt; Rebellion Happened"<BR>&gt; &gt; 2)"The Third Imperium The Rebellion Happened But Virus Is A<BR>&gt; &gt; Crock"<BR>&gt; &gt; 3)"The Third Imperium, Virus Is Real, We're Space Vikings So<BR>&gt; &gt; Deal With It"<BR>&gt; &gt; 4)...???<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt; between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; Imagine an<BR>&gt; adventure where you have to save Strephon from assassination even<BR>&gt; though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; make&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission:<BR>&gt; to reintegrate the timeline!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Ye ghods, that's twisted. Any change you'll run it, and make it a pbem? :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:06 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;001301c03a33$5785bf20$3400a8c0@animerulz.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Personally, I would be in favour of removing all the 'history' and stick <BR>to providing game mechanics with which people can build the universes THEY <BR>want to game in...<BR><BR>So I suppose it doesn't bother me what history they hang on the mechanics, <BR>'cos I strip it out anyway :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:06 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;PIEFIHNLNBEMHOILBEBPOEFHCAAA.jedegraf@cisco.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>This sounds most amusing (says someone who spent SIX hours in Monastir <BR>Airport on the way home a couple of weeks ago...).<BR><BR>Hmmm....<BR><BR>"All sentient beings are reminded that their slime trails are their own <BR>responsibility"<BR><BR>"Final call for Flight AH109 to Sirius. Will Passengers Heffering and <BR>Doyle please come to gate 23 wjere Flight AH109 to Sirius is now boarded." <BR>(to be repeated at intervals throughout the event, of course)<BR><BR>"In the interests of security please keep all your possessions with you at <BR>all times"<BR><BR>...and so on. In as many languages as you can muster. Especially ones your <BR>conventioneers are unlikely to understand. I've found Welsh is <BR>exceptionally good for this... And add in an 'argument when the mike is <BR>left live' scene...<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:42:55 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR><BR>Jones, Dean posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dhgkhthoaeoets<BR><BR>That's easy for *you* to say.<BR><BR>My favorite name was that of a Droyne scientist. <BR><BR>"Froudrk" (pronounced "Frow Drick")<BR><BR>He kept trying to find a hunchbacked Vargr called <BR>"Aygorh" who had a borrowed AI unit to plug into<BR>something they were trying to build.<BR><BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:00:24 -0500<BR>From: "Smart, David J (David)" &lt;dasmart@avaya.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Alien Planetary Weather<BR><BR>ABC has posted a story about possible weather<BR>effects on Titan. The details are great "color"<BR>for PCs exploring a similar world.<BR><BR>The story is at:<BR>http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/science/DailyNews/titan001020.html<BR><BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:14:37 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Idioms, exepletetives (was: Aslan and heredity)<BR><BR>Mikko V. I. Parviainen wrote :<BR>&gt; I hear that we Finns curse a lot, compared to other peoples. "Helvetti",<BR>&gt; or "hell" is not so strong a word. <BR><BR>So, 'Helvetica' is "the font from Hell" then ?<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3189<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 20 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3190<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: On to The Far Future<BR>Re: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Short)<BR>Re: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>RE: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR>Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: identify the quote<BR>2-D Movies, redux<BR>Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: 2-D Movies, redux<BR>Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>Re: Animation<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:17:10 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On to The Far Future<BR><BR>Personally, I would like to see different sourcebooks for different eras<BR>(BTW, I prefer "eras" to "milieux", which just means "middles" to me and<BR>anyone else who speaks french :-).&nbsp; Yes, I know "era" technically means a<BR>million years or something, but I still like the sound of it better...)<BR><BR>The argument that you're "stuck" with the time-line after 200 is based on<BR>the idea that you can't mess with canon, which I disagree with.&nbsp; Sticking<BR>slavishly to canon makes a campaign dull even if you stick with one era. <BR>The great thing about Traveller (IMNSHO) is the sweep and grandeur of it. <BR>But to _use_ that grandeur, you _have_ to mess with it.&nbsp; You _have_ to<BR>unite the Vargr and have them attack the Marches, or bring on a sixth<BR>Frontier War, or have an ancient nano-plague[1] rip across the Imperium or<BR>whatever.&nbsp; <BR><BR>In the same way, campaigns starting in Year 200 have to _change_ the<BR>future history: Stop the star-trigger, split the fledgling Imperium, start<BR>a K'Kree-Imperium war of anihilation.&nbsp; That's what's cool about winding<BR>back the clock, it allows you to "do a Turtledove" and change what you<BR>know is "supposed" to happen. <BR><BR>Now, this all applies only to "big" campaigns.&nbsp; If you want to do a<BR>free-wheeling merchant thing or other more normal-scale campaign, then<BR>just about any era will do (although some would argue that the more<BR>dangerous the better, in which case 200 has advantages here as well).&nbsp; For<BR>this scale of campaign, one thing that winding back the clock does that's<BR>very useful is allow Scout campaigns to be more exploratory.&nbsp; It provides<BR>a vast area of "lost colony" territory to explore, contact, re-colonize,<BR>and/or conquer.&nbsp; Tons of fun there.&nbsp; Not that you can't do this with an<BR>1100s campaign, but it's harder with most of knonw space having been<BR>pretty much civilized for a long time.&nbsp; (The one frontier left there is<BR>rimward of the Solomani sphere, does anyone use this?) <BR><BR>As for the commercial viability of such a move, maybe it isn't a great<BR>idea to split resources too thinly.&nbsp; Pick three eras and go with that,<BR>tops.&nbsp; But the failure of T4 to make this work has more to do with shoddy<BR>editing/design and the overall failure of the _game_ rather than the<BR>setting, I think.&nbsp; Personally, I picked up T4, tried it out, went "bleh!" <BR>and never even bought any supplements.&nbsp; I'm sure lots of other people had<BR>the same experience.<BR><BR>Thank you for your attention,<BR>Charles C.<BR><BR><BR>1. I'm not referring to Virus here, but rather something I cooked up for<BR>one of my own campaigns: A von-neuman nanite plague that attacked humans<BR>rather than machines. (Not that there's anything with playing TNE, if<BR>that's who you are... :-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:29:59 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:15:10 -0700<BR>&gt;From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;imaginary ears lower and dewclaws slip unconsciously from their<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;palm-sheaths&gt;&nbsp; Careful man, I happen to be a furry myself....&nbsp; ;o)<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;I come in peace, phasers on kill.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Our last BayCon party was held directly above the furry party, a sight<BR>&gt; &gt;which made me regret giving up LSD, because then I would at least have an<BR>&gt; &gt;explanation for the things I saw.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;lashes tail briefly in irritation, then relaxes and laughs&gt;&nbsp; I can<BR>&gt;agree with you on the weirdness factor.&nbsp; I've been a staff member for<BR>&gt;ConFurence for the last three years, and have even been invited to speak on<BR>&gt;one of the panels for Further Confusion (makeup and bodypainting), but even<BR>&gt;I have to admit that some furries take things to extremes.&nbsp; &lt;/facetious mode<BR>&gt;on&gt; Not that Sci-Fi fans or gamers ever take things to extremes...no, heaven<BR>&gt;forbid ....(remembering the person who was remodeling his bedroom in<BR>&gt;faux-stone walls and wrought-iron sconces)&lt;/facetious mode off&gt;&nbsp; In all<BR>&gt;seriousness, we Traveller players tend to be the most "normal" and sedate of<BR>&gt;the bunch.&nbsp; Ever seen some of the Vampire/World of Darkness players?<BR>&gt;&lt;shudder&gt;.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>&gt;- ----------------------------------<BR>&gt;Disclaimer - They just tell me to think; they don't tell me _what_ to think.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;------------------------------<BR><BR>Well, AnthroCon has always been fairly placid, I've found.&nbsp; Unless you're <BR>staff, of course. ;)&nbsp; But, yes, some Furries can take things to extremes, <BR>just as any SF fan can.<BR><BR>Regarding the sedateness of Trav players, Trav always seemed to cater to a <BR>different sort of gamer than, say, D&amp;D or any of the White Wolf <BR>stuff.&nbsp; Traveller is the regio of the gearhead, the historian, the grand <BR>intriguist.&nbsp; (I -really- should look into that Traveller-Aria combo, now <BR>that I think of it.)&nbsp; I will say this much for the WoD/Vampire games, <BR>though: it was pointed out to me that no other gaming system has attracted <BR>more female players to the hobby.<BR><BR>ObTrav: Uhm... Albedo using CT, anyone?<BR><BR>We now return you to your regularly scheduled program, SHOWDROYNE, already <BR>in progress.&nbsp; On second thought....<BR><BR>Cheers<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:35:24 -0400<BR>From: Jonathan McDermott &lt;caraig@mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Short)<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 10:31:43 -0700<BR>&gt;From: Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Any call to 'de-canonise' this, that or the other, merely fragments the<BR>&gt;gaming universe into multiverses.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1)"The Third Imperium Strephon Steps Out Of The Shower, No Rebellion<BR>&gt;Happened"<BR>&gt;2)"The Third Imperium The Rebellion Happened But Virus Is A Crock"<BR>&gt;3)"The Third Imperium, Virus Is Real, We're Space Vikings So Deal With<BR>&gt;It"<BR>&gt;4)...???<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In reality, &lt;waves hand around...'This is where we're at, right?'&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>5) "The THird Imperium Strephon should have taken the red pill."<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:19:23 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR><BR>On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; ObTrav: Uhm... Albedo using CT, anyone?<BR>&gt; <BR>I'm up for that!<BR><BR>Kiri&nbsp; ^_^<BR><BR>******************************************************************************<BR>Kiri Aradia Morgan&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 93!&nbsp; Thou Art God<BR>tiamat@tsoft.com<BR><BR>"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>Desire is embraced in a dream..."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -- X-JAPAN<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:27:59 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2D Movies That Survived The Long Night<BR><BR>Ludowick@aol.com wrote :<BR><BR>&gt; 4). Kagemusha: bloody samurai tragedy.<BR><BR>That's the other one !<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:31:21 -0400<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>This is a multi-part message in MIME format.<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C03ABB.8FEC5760<BR>Content-Type: text/plain;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>Hello all,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I'm new to the list but have been an on/off Traveller player since =<BR>about '84.&nbsp; I'm starting a new campaign and I was curious if anyone has =<BR>ever removed and/or modified certain types of technology from their =<BR>campaigns that seem to be standardized within the Traveller universe?=20<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I'm currently working on a universe in which gravitics never =<BR>developed (i.e. no grav plates,inertia compensators, air/rafts, or =<BR>reactionless drives).&nbsp; What are your opinions on how different the =<BR>universe of Traveller would be if such technology had not developed?&nbsp; =<BR>What effect would instantaneous jump have (similar to Human jump =<BR>technology from The Mote in God's Eye)?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; As a side note have any of you run or played in a campaign in which =<BR>certain races (Hiver, Aslan, et al) never existed?&nbsp; If so then what was =<BR>the effect in those campaigns?<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thanks for your time...<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti<BR>acoloset@kent.edu<BR><BR><BR><BR>- ---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C03ABB.8FEC5760<BR>Content-Type: text/html;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; charset="iso-8859-1"<BR>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable<BR><BR>&lt;!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"&gt;<BR>&lt;HEAD&gt;<BR>&lt;META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =<BR>charset=3Diso-8859-1"&gt;<BR>&lt;META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=3DGENERATOR&gt;<BR>&lt;STYLE&gt;&lt;/STYLE&gt;<BR>&lt;/HEAD&gt;<BR><BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Hello all,</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; I'm new to the list =<BR>but have=20<BR>been an on/off Traveller player since about '84.&amp;nbsp; I'm starting a =<BR>new=20<BR>campaign and I was curious if anyone has ever&amp;nbsp;removed and/or =<BR>modified=20<BR>certain types of technology from their campaigns that seem to be =<BR>standardized=20<BR>within the Traveller universe?&amp;nbsp;</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; I'm currently =<BR>working on a=20<BR>universe in which gravitics never developed (i.e. no grav plates,inertia =<BR><BR>compensators,&amp;nbsp;air/rafts, or reactionless drives).&amp;nbsp; =<BR>What&amp;nbsp;are your=20<BR>opinions on how different the universe of Traveller would be if such =<BR>technology=20<BR>had not developed?&amp;nbsp; What effect would instantaneous jump have =<BR>(similar to=20<BR>Human jump technology from The Mote in God's Eye)?</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; As a side note have =<BR>any of you=20<BR>run or played in a campaign in which certain races (Hiver, Aslan, et al) =<BR>never=20<BR>existed?&amp;nbsp; If so then what was&amp;nbsp;the effect in those=20<BR>campaigns?</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp;&amp;nbsp; Thanks for your=20<BR>time...</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>Anthony Colosetti</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3>&lt;A=20<BR>href=3D"mailto:acoloset@kent.edu"&gt;acoloset@kent.edu</A></FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3></FONT>&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;&amp;nbsp;&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR>&lt;DIV&gt;<FONT face=3DArial size=3><BR>---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified =<BR>Virus=20<BR>Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (&lt;A=20<BR>href=3D"http://www.grisoft.com"&gt;http://www.grisoft.com</A>).<BR>Version: =<BR>6.0.198 /=20<BR>Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00</FONT>&lt;/DIV&gt;<BR><BR>- ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01C03ABB.8FEC5760--<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:06:05 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Anthony Colosetti wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I'm currently working on a universe in which gravitics never<BR>&gt; developed (i.e. no grav plates,inertia compensators, air/rafts, or<BR>&gt; reactionless drives).&nbsp; What are your opinions on how different the<BR>&gt; universe of Traveller would be if such technology had not developed?<BR>&gt; What effect would instantaneous jump have (similar to Human jump<BR>&gt; technology from The Mote in God's Eye)?<BR><BR>Removing gravitic technology would have some effects on starship<BR>design.&nbsp; HEPlaR would become the standard thrust agency for starships<BR>(as per TNE).&nbsp; Space combat would probably take place at lower speeds,<BR>since high thrust would be more difficult to sustain for extended<BR>periods.&nbsp; Many, if not most, starships would be fitted for spin<BR>pseudo-gravity; the remainder would tend to be optimized for<BR>microgravity.&nbsp; In the absence of CG drives to lift a HEPlaR-drive ship<BR>off-planet without searing the surrounding area with exhaust plasma,<BR>ships capable of making planetfall would be rare (since the starport<BR>would be "well-done" after one of these ships launched!).&nbsp; Note that<BR>this change makes smaller ships less commercially viable (in order to<BR>trade with the marginal worlds that are often the Free Trader's<BR>bread-and-butter, the Free Trader would probably need to carry its own<BR>ship's boat, thus cutting down on needed cargo space).<BR><BR>Instantaneous Jump would increase communications speed tremendously,<BR>even under the limitations of the Alderson Drive from MiGE.&nbsp; After all,<BR>with relay ships (similar to x-boats) waiting at Alderson Points,<BR>messages could travel within system at lightspeed, and between systems<BR>nearly instantly.&nbsp; This change in communications speed would have a<BR>crucial impact on the "look and feel" of Traveller.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; As a side note have any of you run or played in a campaign in<BR>&gt; which certain races (Hiver, Aslan, et al) never existed?&nbsp; If so then<BR>&gt; what was the effect in those campaigns?<BR><BR>Heck, when I began playing Traveller (circa 1978-1979), those races<BR>_didn't_ exist!&nbsp; It wasn't an issue then.&nbsp; Their existence IMTU doens't<BR>really affect our current campaign; since Traveller is designed around a<BR>humanocentric universe, we rarely encounter races other than humaniti.<BR><BR>PS:&nbsp; Please send only plain text mail to the TML.&nbsp; Rich Text and/or HTML<BR>e-mails tend to add a bunch of garbage to the digest version.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:00:26 -0400<BR>From: "Terry Carlino" &lt;carlino@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>I would second this one Loren. I don't know who has the rights here now, but<BR>it would make a really kick ass game. It's got space aliens, mutant powers,<BR>international intrigue (at least in the first dozen books, while Rhodan's<BR>people are trying to unit the world), and lots of great GTL13 or 14 level<BR>tech.<BR>Someone who wanted to could probably use existing GURPS books to gin up a<BR>game themselves, but I certainly think that a specific source book would<BR>sell real hot in Germany and probably make a decent showing in the US too.<BR><BR><BR>Terry C<BR>All that is Gold does not glitter<BR>Not all who travel are lost<BR><BR>- -----Original Message-----<BR>From: owner-traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.ient.com]On Behalf Of Leonard Erickson<BR>Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2000 6:39 PM<BR>To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>An addition to the "dreck that will survive" list:<BR><BR>"Operation Stardust" (I think that was the title). It's a German movie<BR>about the first expedition to the moon discovering high TL humanoid<BR>aliens there.<BR><BR>It's based on the first book in the Perry Rhodan series. Which was<BR>(is?) a *major* (so-so) SF phenomenon in Germany in the 60s &amp; 70s. I<BR>don't know how it's doing now. But at its height the *team* of writers<BR>was producing something like two novels a *week*.<BR><BR>But given the basic plotline: Humans meet decadent aliens, humans<BR>unite against them, humans conquer alien empire, and go on to spread<BR>the "right" culture across the stars; I expect that the books (and the<BR>movie) would enjoy a resurgence of popularity after the conquest of the<BR>Vilani. And the Solomani have probably revived them yet again.<BR><BR>It wouldn't be that hard to "revise" them a bit to be closer to Trav<BR>tech, and to Trav history.<BR><BR>It might even be fun (for a twisted GM willing to put a *lot* of effort<BR>into it) to come up with a variant Traveller campaign set in the Perry<BR>Rhodan universe.<BR><BR>BTW, Loren? It occurs to me that if Perry Rhodan still enjoys any sort<BR>of popularity in Germany, a GURPS: Perry Rhodan might sell well there.<BR>And it's different enough from most US SF, while still being "super<BR>science space opera" that some of the US fans who bought the US<BR>editions of the book (again, back in the 70s) might buy a few copies<BR>also.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:22:50 EDT<BR>From: Ludowick@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: identify the quote<BR><BR>Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Identify the quote time again:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;'ThE MASter wouldn'T APPRove.'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Clue on the flyleaf dedication for FF&amp;S <BR><BR>Isn't that what Torgo the Gimp, from the movie "Manos, the Hands of Fate"<BR>always said?&nbsp; A low-budget, twilight of the drive-in era horror flick,<BR>skewered by the MST3K crew.&nbsp; Torgo became a minor recurring character on<BR>MST3K after that (don't get a pizza from him).&nbsp; I didn't know he was <BR>mentioned in FFS (I presume FFS1, which I don't have; can't find a reference<BR>to him in FFS2).<BR><BR>Ludowick (big fan of "B" movies &amp; MST3K)<BR>&lt;sound of Torgo Theme playing quietly in the background...&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:37:07 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: 2-D Movies, redux<BR><BR>&gt;To a movie freak like myself, trying to pare a list down to only ten is<BR>like pulling teeth (Go ahead, just rip my heart out, &gt;why don't you?)&nbsp; So<BR>here it is.&nbsp; <BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;1)&nbsp; The General <BR>&gt;2)&nbsp; Harold and Maude <BR>&gt;3)&nbsp; The Great Dictator<BR>&gt;4)&nbsp; Metropolis&nbsp; <BR>&gt;5)&nbsp; Stop Making Sense <BR>&gt;6)&nbsp; The Seventh Seal <BR>&gt;7)&nbsp; My Neighbor Totoro <BR>&gt;8)&nbsp; Mononoke Hime <BR>&gt;9)&nbsp; Cyrano de Bergerac <BR>&gt;10) Sparticus <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Ack!!&nbsp; I forgot Animal Crackers!!&nbsp; How could I forget Animal<BR>Crackers?&nbsp; ("Hurray for Captain Spaulding...")&nbsp; To leave out the Marx<BR>brothers??&nbsp; Can I ad it to the list, or do I have to consign one of these<BR>movies to oblivion?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- --------------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - yeah, you know the drill; don't blame them, they just pay me.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:33:45 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anyone know what era the Cylon invasion would be set in?<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Antony<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Around 1985, wasn't it?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; More like 1980-81. "Galactica 1980", remember?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;grimace&gt; I do now.<BR><BR>Some of us lived through the first run...<BR><BR>&gt; Well, my cable's being installed tomorrow, so soon I can watch the<BR>&gt; SciFi channel, and all the repeats of 70s-80s shows I could want :)<BR><BR>I've got cable. They only show you the ones that they think there's<BR>enough interest in. <BR><BR>They've shown Battlestar Galactica before. I don't think it's on the<BR>current schedule. But as I recall, they've *never* shown Galactica<BR>1980.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:17:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 11:55 PM 10/19/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Party floor next year?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I hope.&nbsp; I did jump up and down on the Party Maven about it on the last day<BR>&gt; of the Con.&nbsp; We lost a lot of foor traffic being on the third floor.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting Room.&nbsp; If we can't<BR>&gt; get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be looking for someone who can<BR>&gt; put together some CDs with appropriate music, interrupted by starport-ish<BR>&gt; announcments.&nbsp; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only.<BR>&gt; Please, no standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>&gt; owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse five please pick up<BR>&gt; the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is emitting smoke.)<BR><BR>"Anthony Rogers, the Han consul is waiting for you in courtesy lounge 4"<BR><BR>&lt;semi-obscure SF reference&gt;<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:31:26 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Anthony Rogers, the Han consul is waiting for you in courtesy lounge 4"<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;semi-obscure SF reference&gt;<BR><BR>How many Bucks do I get for recognizing the reference?&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:32:51 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>&gt;Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 15:33:45 PST<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Anyone know what era the Cylon invasion would be set in?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Antony<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&gt; Around 1985, wasn't it?<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; More like 1980-81. "Galactica 1980", remember?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;grimace&gt; I do now.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Some of us lived through the first run...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Well, my cable's being installed tomorrow, so soon I can watch the<BR>&gt; &gt; SciFi channel, and all the repeats of 70s-80s shows I could want :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;I've got cable. They only show you the ones that they think there's<BR>&gt;enough interest in.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;They've shown Battlestar Galactica before. I don't think it's on the<BR>&gt;current schedule. But as I recall, they've *never* shown Galactica<BR>&gt;1980.<BR><BR>Yes, they have. SciFi is where I first saw it.<BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;--<BR>&gt;Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt;leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 19:39:17 -0400<BR>From: "James Fleming" &lt;blackjack@pil.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson writes:<BR><BR>&gt; They've shown Battlestar Galactica before. I don't think it's on the<BR>&gt; current schedule. But as I recall, they've *never* shown Galactica<BR>&gt; 1980.<BR><BR>They did show Galactica 80 on Sci Fi a while back.&nbsp; Must have been about a<BR>good 2-3 years.&nbsp; I distinctly recall watching the really bad episode<BR>involving a broken Cylon warrior crashing various Halloween parties<BR>searching for some Colonial Viper pilots.&nbsp; Ahh, who am I kidding?&nbsp; All the<BR>episodes were bad.<BR><BR>Jim Fleming<BR>a.k.a. Blackjack Fleming<BR>Hero For Hire<BR>blackjack@pil.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:05:56 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies, redux<BR><BR>Rodney Basler, replying to himself, wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;To a movie freak like myself, trying to pare a list down to only ten is<BR>like pulling teeth (Go ahead, just rip my heart out, &gt;why don't you?)&nbsp; So<BR>here it is.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;1)&nbsp; The General <BR>&gt;&gt;2)&nbsp; Harold and Maude <BR>&gt;&gt;3)&nbsp; The Great Dictator<BR>&gt;&gt;4)&nbsp; Metropolis&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;5)&nbsp; Stop Making Sense <BR>&gt;&gt;6)&nbsp; The Seventh Seal <BR>&gt;&gt;7)&nbsp; My Neighbor Totoro <BR>&gt;&gt;8)&nbsp; Mononoke Hime <BR>&gt;&gt;9)&nbsp; Cyrano de Bergerac <BR>&gt;&gt;10) Sparticus <BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Ack!!&nbsp; I forgot Animal Crackers!!&nbsp; How could I forget Animal<BR>&gt;Crackers?&nbsp; ("Hurray for Captain Spaulding...")&nbsp; To leave out the Marx<BR>&gt;brothers??&nbsp; Can I ad it to the list, or do I have to consign one of these<BR>&gt;movies to oblivion?<BR><BR>Replace 'Cyrano' which is "really" a play.&nbsp; Either that on 'Princess Mononoke' -- not that it's not good, but if you're only saving 10 movies, can you really afford 2 by a single director?<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>Personal Marx Bros. fave: Duck Soup<BR>Personal Miyazaki fave:&nbsp; Kiki's Delivery Service (first one I saw...)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:09:16 EDT<BR>From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>Subject: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR><BR>Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt; types:<BR><BR>&gt;In all<BR>&gt;seriousness, we Traveller players tend to be the most "normal" and sedate of<BR>&gt;the bunch.&nbsp; Ever seen some of the Vampire/World of Darkness players?<BR>&gt;&lt;shudder&gt;.<BR><BR>Of course, the SF Bay Area is loaded with 'em. But based on my DunDraCon <BR>experiences, the "Wall of Vampire Players" would make a poor M:tG card, as <BR>they always seem to melt away when someone approaches in a loud Hawaiian <BR>shirt...<BR><BR>GC<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:22:14 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Animation<BR><BR>&gt; From: Jonathan McDermott <BR>&gt; IIRC, the "leader" of the Vargr corsairs who take advantage of the <BR>&gt; Rebellion is Okheosis, who is a digital construct -- interestingly, the <BR>&gt; first "virtual idoru" mentioned in Trav canon, since Okheosis is a<BR>&gt; singer.<BR><BR>Shh!&nbsp; This hasn't been mentioned in GT yet.&nbsp; It is supposed to be one of<BR>those mysterious things like the Secret Of The Ancients.<BR><BR>&gt; Almost makes you wonder what would have happened if a Mother/God strain<BR>&gt; of Virus got hold of the computer that "ran" Okheosis....<BR><BR>&lt;smug mode&gt;<BR><BR>Been and done.<BR><BR>I actually had two such Viruses.&nbsp; One thought it was Oeksos, the other<BR>thought it was the Archduke Brzk.&nbsp; (I was assuming that Brzk had been using<BR>utovogh programs for propoganda purposes.&nbsp; The utovogh is the Vargr name of<BR>the device for running these pseudo-personalities.)<BR><BR>Oeksos tended to encourage Vargr/Vampire raids on former Imperial<BR>territories, Brzk tended to encourage Vargr/Virus/Human alliances, more or<BR>less according to their "historical" roles.<BR><BR>Brzk essentially created a "good-guy" Pocket Empire, although one that was<BR>built around a Vampire Fleet.&nbsp; <BR><BR>&lt;/smug mode&gt;<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:45:51 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" <BR>&gt; And giving each its own core rule book will result in a tidy <BR>&gt; profit. Don't believe me? Look how well White Wolf is doing, and they are<BR>&gt; basically just reprinting the WoD rules to match a particular setting in <BR>&gt; each core book, just as T5 will. So there!<BR><BR>NO!&nbsp; Arrgh!&nbsp; I am NOT going to keep buying the rules over and over again!<BR><BR>I don't care if it sells to other people or not - *I* would not buy this.<BR><BR>Fortunately, in the past Marc has suggested including a default Milieu with<BR>the T5 rules, and having a series of stand-alone entry points - relatively<BR>rules-light sourcebooks, that, with the core rules, allow you to start<BR>playing in the milieu.<BR><BR>Personally, I would add a bunch of sector books as well.&nbsp; Marc has<BR>suggested that each sourcebook might develop a new sector, but I don't<BR>think that that always makes sense.&nbsp; There are too many good reasons why a<BR>Civil War campaign, for example, might be set in the Spinward Marches or<BR>Core, or even the Solomani Rim, and not enough reasons for it to be set in<BR>Dagushadag or somewhere like that.&nbsp; Reusing sectors is therefore something<BR>which seems to make sense.<BR><BR>And yes, I have my little unofficial Civil War project going, and, to the<BR>extent that it is going to have an end product, it will be a rules-light<BR>sourcebook, that would be usable in conjuction with the core rules and a<BR>sector sourcebook (or just plain sector data) to play a Civil War campaign.<BR>About the only "rules" it would have would be guidelines for modifying<BR>world details, and maybe a couple of nifty character generation options. <BR>Don't hold your breath waiting for this to appear....<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3190<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Saturday, October 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3191<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Perry Rhodan<BR>Re: 2-D Movies, fin<BR>Albedo in CT<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: Milieu 0<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating<BR>Re: The Game Systems....<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>Re: Quantum Computing (was Jump Time)<BR>Albedo using CT<BR>Anthony Rogers<BR>Re: Albedo in CT<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On to The Far Future<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:19:56 -0400<BR>From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>Subject: Perry Rhodan<BR><BR>Terry Carlino wrote:<BR>&gt; I would second this one Loren. I don't know who has the rights here now, but<BR>&gt;it would make a really kick ass game. It's got space aliens, mutant powers,<BR>&gt;international intrigue (at least in the first dozen books, while Rhodan's<BR>&gt;people are trying to unit the world), and lots of great GTL13 or 14 level<BR>&gt;tech.<BR>&gt;Someone who wanted to could probably use existing GURPS books to gin up a<BR>&gt;game themselves, but I certainly think that a specific source book would<BR>&gt;sell real hot in Germany and probably make a decent showing in the US too.<BR><BR>I used to work with a guy who was somehow involved in publishing English translations of Perry Rhodan serials.&nbsp; I wasn't on particularly friendly terms with him (to put it politely) so I don't have any details or contact info or anything, but I know he used to sell the stuff at SF Cons, and presumably still does (since this was within the last year).&nbsp; Anyhow, these guys are out there, and presumably have some kind of publication rights (since the books I saw had color covers and looked at least semi-pro), so I suppose they'd be the ones to seek out.<BR><BR>Trent<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:46:55 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D Movies, fin<BR><BR>&gt;From: trentfs@ix.netcom.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: 2-D Movies, redux<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Ack!!&nbsp; I forgot Animal Crackers!!&nbsp; How could I forget Animal<BR>&gt;&gt;Crackers?&nbsp; ("Hurray for Captain Spaulding...")&nbsp; To leave out the Marx<BR>&gt;&gt;brothers??&nbsp; Can I ad it to the list, or do I have to consign one of these<BR>&gt;&gt;movies to oblivion?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Replace 'Cyrano' which is "really" a play.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Point taken - Cyrano _must_ survive, in print at least, to inspire<BR>generation after generation of marine recruits during their cutlass drills<BR>;o) <BR><BR>OK, final list:<BR>&gt;&gt;1)&nbsp; The General <BR>&gt;&gt;2)&nbsp; Harold and Maude <BR>&gt;&gt;3)&nbsp; The Great Dictator<BR>&gt;&gt;4)&nbsp; Metropolis&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt;5)&nbsp; Stop Making Sense <BR>&gt;&gt;6)&nbsp; The Seventh Seal <BR>&gt;&gt;7)&nbsp; My Neighbor Totoro <BR>&gt;&gt;8)&nbsp; Mononoke Hime <BR>&gt;&gt;9)&nbsp; Animal Crackers<BR>&gt;&gt;10) Sparticus <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT (and getting mighty frazzled already and the plane<BR>doesn't leave until Monday)<BR>- --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - Don't blame my employer, ok?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:52:27 -0700<BR>From: Rodney Basler &lt;rgb@odetics.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Albedo in CT<BR><BR>&gt;From: Kiri Aradia Morgan &lt;tiamat@tsoft.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;On Fri, 20 Oct 2000, Jonathan McDermott wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; ObTrav: Uhm... Albedo using CT, anyone?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;I'm up for that!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Question:&nbsp; would you want the ties/antipathies and interpersonal<BR>relation rules ported into CT from Albedo, or would you prefer to have it<BR>run without?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR>- --------------------------------------------<BR>Disclaimer - you know the drill...it's late.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:01:24 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>"&nbsp; &nbsp; I'm new to the list but have been an on/off Traveller player since"<BR><BR>Welcome!&nbsp; Don't mind all the silly conversations going on right now, we're<BR>like that. :-)<BR><BR><BR>"about '84.&nbsp; I'm starting a new campaign and I was curious if anyone has =<BR>ever removed and/or modified certain types of technology from their =<BR>campaigns that seem to be standardized within the Traveller universe? "<BR><BR>No. Diverting from the books in any way is heresy.&nbsp; Your job as GM is to<BR>read them all and follow them to the letter, coming up with plausible hand<BR>waves for the inconsistencies and convincing your players they make sense!<BR>Yes, I'm kidding.&nbsp; <BR><BR>"&nbsp; &nbsp; I'm currently working on a universe in which gravitics never =<BR>developed (i.e. no grav plates,inertia compensators, air/rafts, or =<BR>reactionless drives).&nbsp; What are your opinions on how different the =<BR>universe of Traveller would be if such technology had not developed? "<BR><BR>I've toyed with this idea and I think it would be cool, but it does have<BR>a lot of consequences:<BR><BR>1. Ships would spin for gravity. You could design them like in MiGE (down<BR>is out when drifting, down is sideways when thrusting, if you get my<BR>meaning).&nbsp; Something with "variable geometry" could also be designed to<BR>handle both types of inertial gravity.&nbsp; In general space travel becomes a<BR>lot less convenient.<BR><BR>2. Ship combat becomes a very different beast.&nbsp; Acheiving lots of thrust<BR>without the magical thruster plates turns out to be quite difficult.&nbsp; In<BR>MiGE, IIRC, they would sometimes thrust for days at 3 g.&nbsp; That would be<BR>tough to acheive (maybe impossible) with reaction-based thrusters. So<BR>you're looking at a TNE-style combat where stealth is the thing and once<BR>you're locked on you're in trouble.&nbsp; (No Alderson Fields in trav, but you<BR>could add them in...)<BR><BR>3. W/o inertial compensation, ship accel is probably limited to 3 or 4 g. <BR>It's hard to say what the exact limit is.&nbsp; We know that humans can take a<BR>lot more than that for short periods, but no data exists for withstanding<BR>multiple gee-forces for more than a few minutes.&nbsp; Space combat typically<BR>lasts hours under most rules systems, and there's nothing on what people<BR>can take for those sorts of times. One now has to worry about hurting<BR>passengers by pulling too much gee in combat (like Horace Bury in MiGE). <BR><BR>4. Colonization of smaller-than-terrestrial worlds involves bone<BR>decalcification and muscle loss.&nbsp; Some kind of geneering or medical<BR>intervention would be needed to deal with this.&nbsp; Hailing Robert O'Connor!<BR>Hailing Robert O'Connor!&nbsp; (He's our resident bio/med expert, he can<BR>probably tell you more than you want to know, he has some articles<BR>archived somewhere on downport.com, IIRC).<BR><BR>5. Some of the materials and power technology is based on gravitics.&nbsp; This<BR>isn't a big deal, but things like bonded super-dense would need new<BR>explanations.&nbsp; <BR><BR>6. Landing on planets becomes tougher.&nbsp; Reaction thrusters tend to make a<BR>mess, so shuttles will be the more common way of getting to the surface.<BR>Another aspect of "less convenient" space travel.<BR><BR>I'm sure there's others, but that's it off the top of my head.<BR><BR><BR>"What effect would instantaneous jump have (similar to Human jump =<BR>technology from The Mote in God's Eye)?"<BR><BR>This would change things alot.&nbsp; One of the central aspects of trav's<BR>background is that slow comms leads to local power being necessary,<BR>including when the PCs are "local power".&nbsp; Something I was never sure<BR>about in MiGE was why they didn't have jump torpedoes: Just send a small<BR>missle through and broadcast a message (was there a big drive necessary? <BR>I don't remember). Have a network of these and you have very speedy comms<BR>all across the empire.&nbsp; A similar set up in the Imperium would lead to<BR>maybe a matter of days to get info from Capital to the Marches (as opposed<BR>to the months it takes in canon). <BR><BR>This would also change the nature of military conflict and commerce in big<BR>ways. None of this is to say you shouldn't do it, BTW, I say go for it.<BR>I'm just pointing out some of the things that will change when you make<BR>these changes.<BR><BR><BR>"&nbsp; &nbsp; As a side note have any of you run or played in a campaign in which =<BR>certain races (Hiver, Aslan, et al) never existed?&nbsp; If so then what was =<BR>the effect in those campaigns?"<BR><BR>I've never actually tried that.&nbsp; I've considered getting rid of the K'Kree<BR>in order to make a new frontier for exploration in that direction, but<BR>never actually did it. I'd be curious to hear what you have in mind... <BR><BR>Ciao,<BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:23:53 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Milieu 0<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote :<BR>&gt; Okay - I'm desperate. In the M0 sourcebook, a map of the Core sector is<BR>&gt; provided, along with a list of worlds. My question is: WHAT THE HECK DOES<BR>&gt; THIS MEAN?<BR><BR>It's Core Sector during Milieu 0.<BR><BR>&gt; Why aren't the member worlds of the Chanestin Kingdom and Interstellar<BR>&gt; Confederacy marked?<BR><BR>Because at the time they weren't friendly to the Sylean Federation, and<BR>therefore did not give out their stellar data to the Zhunatsu Scout Service.<BR><BR>&gt; Why does the map focus on the Sylean&nbsp; Federation instead<BR>&gt; of the 3I circa 0?<BR><BR>Because the Sylean Federation _is_&nbsp; the 3I circa 0.<BR><BR>&gt;What does the little "." after many of the world names<BR>&gt; mean? I need to know!<BR><BR>It's called a full-stop, it means the sentence has finished.<BR><BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -J. Jensen<BR>&gt; _________________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>&gt; http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:28:00 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; It failed because the first people to run IG didn't know how to run a<BR>&gt; business, then the second bunch didn't know how to run a gaming<BR>&gt; business, then turned into theives. <BR><BR>Thieves? Are you referring to the non-payment of authors or to<BR>something else?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:31:55 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Galactica 80 is non-canon. :-)<BR><BR>Except for the episode "The Return of Starbuck" (minus the framing story).<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:39:58 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Friday, October 20, 2000, at 04:58 PM, James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;game of the far future actually being set in the far future again, <BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; Milieu 0, Milieu 200, the Long Night - they're all set in the "far <BR>&gt; future".&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&gt; Anything past 3000AD can be considered Far Future, can't it? <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is our far future, true, but it is part of a set future history. No <BR>&gt; alarms and no surprises. PCs can just lie back and not worry about anything, <BR>&gt; they know how it ends (and that it does). Star Trigger about to go off? <BR>&gt; Darrian's still there in 700 years,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; we've seen it, someone else must stop it.<BR><BR>You are making an unfounded assumption. Just because the *official*<BR>Traveller history has something happenming in the future doesn't mean<BR>that a givewn *campaign* will work out that way.<BR><BR>And if I had players in a situation where they had an opportunity to<BR>make things come out "the way they are supposed to" and they started<BR>making "we know it'll come out all right" comments, I'd hit them with<BR>any of the following:<BR><BR>"How do you know that *you* aren't the folks who *made* it come out<BR>that way?"<BR><BR>"And what makes you think you aren't about to start an alternate<BR>timeline?" <BR><BR>"You know *a* future history for the Imperium, not *the* future history."<BR><BR>&gt; I don't want to forget the Imperium, but I'd rather keep its spirit alive <BR>&gt; than rob its tomb. I don't want to retreat into future-historical <BR>&gt; re-enactment...<BR><BR>But that's the point. A campaign set *before* CT/MT/etc *doesn't* have<BR>to lead to the CT/MT/etc history. It all depends on the players and ref.<BR><BR>Think "SCA" (non-scripted battles), not "re-enactors".<BR><BR>To put it another way, they may be in civil war uniforms and fighting<BR>the Battle of Gettysburg, but maybe Lee will *win* this time...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:49:06 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 08:22 AM 10/20/2000 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;What sort of uniforms do you imagine for Imperial/Zhodani/etc. Navy, Marine<BR>&gt;&gt;and Scout personel?&nbsp; Officers vs enlisted?&nbsp; Branches?&nbsp; Colours, styles?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ground Forces is at the printer, and will answer those questions in detail<BR>&gt; regarding the Imperial Marines and Army.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Or you can go to:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; and see what I did for the BayCon party last year.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Based on canonical information, the Scouts are probably very loose about<BR>&gt; uniforms.&nbsp; The probaby have a dress uniform for those occassions when they<BR>&gt; needed one; but in the field each team dresses according to situation and<BR>&gt; taste.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The one thing I did make universal among Scout s was the TL-15 Vacc Suit<BR>&gt; from MT.&nbsp; This was a skinsuit, and just looked like the sort of things that<BR>&gt; a Scout would wear all the time.<BR><BR>Anybody have any suggestions for an "X-boat 'pilot'" uniform?<BR><BR>I'm more than a bit overweight, and I figured that'd be an "appropriate"<BR>job...<BR><BR>BTW, anybody have any stuff that'd look good on a Win 3.1 for Pen<BR>Computing handheld? Grayscale VGA, and it can be configured for a<BR>portrait display (ie 480x640) as well as the normal landscape mode.<BR><BR>It's only a 486, but I think it could handle a few "forms" and the<BR>like. <BR><BR>For that matter, it might be fun to have some of us in the appropriate<BR>uniforms gathering and distributing "X-boat" messages at cons.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 16:58:23 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting Room.&nbsp; If we can't<BR>&gt;&gt;get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be looking for someone who can<BR>&gt;&gt;put together some CDs with appropriate music, interrupted by starport-ish<BR>&gt;&gt;announcments.&nbsp; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only.<BR>&gt;&gt;Please, no standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>&gt;&gt;owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse five please pick up<BR>&gt;&gt;the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is emitting smoke.)<BR><BR>Nah, he's just blowing smoke...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:03:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Also, as an aside... there was a mention of Trav filks now and<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; then.&nbsp; I realized the other day just what a PERFECT song for the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Rebellion era Genesis' "Land of Confusion" is.&nbsp; Thinking of the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; coming of the Black War during the little slow segue towards the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; end of the song is a bit chilling.&nbsp; Anyway, just thought I'd toss<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; that out. =)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Oh thank you *very* much... I really needed that image.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Sorry; I just thought it made for a fairly poignant theme for the Black <BR>&gt; War. &lt;=\<BR><BR>Don't worry. I wasn't *really* upset. <BR><BR>&gt;&gt;BTW, have you ever seen the video?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; A long time ago, sufficiently long ago that I can only remember bits and <BR>&gt; pieces, though I seem to recall some well-known group of puppets which <BR>&gt; parodied leading US political figures being in it.<BR><BR>Isn't it the one that includes a lot of tromping thru a jungle by<BR>muppets/marionettes?. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:45:26 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I'm currently working on a universe in which gravitics never<BR>&gt; developed (i.e. no grav plates,inertia compensators, air/rafts, or<BR>&gt; reactionless drives).<BR><BR>Keep in mind that CG, grav plates/inertial compensators, and<BR>reactionless drives may be three *different* technologies (and<BR>reactionless drives may not even be gravitic!)<BR><BR>&gt; What are your opinions on how different the<BR>&gt; universe of Traveller would be if such technology had not developed?<BR><BR>Well, lack of reactionless dtrives merely means folks have to worry<BR>about reaction mass.<BR><BR>Lack of CG eliminates air rafts and modofies some ship designs.<BR><BR>Lack of g-comp/gravplates means that 90% or more of all ship designs<BR>have to be thrown out, because they are unusable. For example, *all*<BR>scout ship designs are unusable, because under thrust, the decks would<BR>be *walls*.<BR><BR>The only two designs I can think of that *would* be ok are the<BR>Lightning class cruisers, and the Broadsword class ships.<BR><BR>Oh yeah, one lab ship design is ok also.<BR><BR>&gt; What effect would instantaneous jump have (similar to Human jump<BR>&gt; technology from The Mote in God's Eye)?<BR><BR>It means that it'd reduce the comm lag between Core and the Spinward<BR>Marches from months to *hours*. That changes things beyond recognition.<BR>Central control becomes practical.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 17:08:32 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Please advise,<BR>&gt; Admit to needing more info on "jump masking"<BR>&gt; Need to mess with PC's minds<BR><BR>Simple. Draw a line from where they enter jump to where they intend to<BR>exit jump. <BR><BR>If the line passes within 100 diameters of anything bigger than the<BR>ship, the ship pops out of jump *there* instead of where they were<BR>aiming for. <BR><BR>But it still takes a week +/-.<BR><BR>Usually, you'll only need to worry about stuff in the origin and<BR>destination systems. Say there's a gas giant that might be in the way.<BR><BR>But if the DM wan't to, there might be a comet that wandered into the<BR>"course line" at the wrong time. Leaving the ship sitting in the middle<BR>of nowhere.<BR><BR>At least if it was a comet or other iceball, they can do a wilderness<BR>refuel. If it's a brown dwarf (unlike to be left off the charts except<BR>near the borders), refueling will be harder.<BR><BR>If it's a rockball or nickel-iron body (unlikely, but just barely possible) <BR>they'll be in trouble. Ditto for a "black dwarf" (though I'm not sure<BR>the universe is old enough to have any).<BR><BR>For real fun, it might be a *big* derelict ship. And there might be<BR>enough fuel on board to let them jump out even though it's not enough<BR>for the big ship.<BR><BR>Maybe it's not derelict. It could be a sleeper ship, with the (alien?)<BR>crew in suspended animation. Or maybe a generation ship.<BR><BR>If it's a derelict, maybe they can come back to investigate or to<BR>salvage it. After all, they can claim that it was an iceball that<BR>dropped them out of jump. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:53:12 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Quantum Computing (was Jump Time)<BR><BR>"Trevor, Peter" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Quantum Computing:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; so until I ping the NT-Sever, I don't know if it is up or down<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; OT: doesn't pinging the server change it's state?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; No, that would imply the NT-Server was "up" or "down" before&nbsp; you<BR>&gt; ping it.&nbsp; Actually, it would be neither ... it would be a quantum<BR>&gt; probability wave function that collapses into&nbsp; the&nbsp; certainty&nbsp; of<BR>&gt; "up" or "down" when pinged.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; (Hmmm ... that would explain a lot now that I think about it.)<BR><BR>Of course, one cannot neglect the Heisenberg-Murphy Interaction (an<BR>inverse function of server reliability) when discussing NT server<BR>status.&nbsp; In layman's terms, the greater the urgency of the remote user's<BR>need to access the server, the greater the probability that the server<BR>will be down.<BR><BR>Note that Murphian interactions can also explain phenomena such as<BR>contra-gravity.&nbsp; Given that:<BR><BR>1.&nbsp; A falling slice of buttered bread will always land butter-side-down,<BR>and<BR><BR>2.&nbsp; A falling cat will always land on its feet;<BR><BR>A cat with a slice of buttered bread strapped to its back will therefore<BR>never strike the ground, assuming that the buttered side of the slice of<BR>bread is oriented in direct opposition to the cat's feet.<BR><BR>Therefore, a cat with a slice of buttered bread strapped to its back<BR>will display CG characteristics, since the tendency for a slice of<BR>butterd bread to land butter-side-down will cancel the tendency for a<BR>cat to land on its feet.&nbsp; Presumably, the power requirement for CG is<BR>based both on providing life support for the cats needed for the effect<BR>and on replenishing the buttered bread supply for CG drives.<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:14:15 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>or GT.&nbsp; Is there is a furry source book for GURPS?<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>burgers &amp; garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:20:19 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Anthony Rogers<BR><BR>Armageddon 2419 AD by Philip Frances Nowlan<BR><BR>Originally published in two serials in 1928 &amp; 1929<BR><BR>&gt;"Anthony Rogers, the Han consul is waiting for you in courtesy lounge 4"<BR>&gt;&lt;semi-obscure SF reference&gt;<BR><BR>Followed up by the decent "Mordred" written by John Eric Holmes (outline by <BR>Niven &amp; Pournelle), and two bloody aweful seuales by Richard S. McEnroe.<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>"Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: cruising for<BR>burgers &amp; garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, roadkill cooked"<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 20:38:56 -0700<BR>From: Kristian Miller &lt;travellerne@3rd-imperium.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo in CT<BR><BR>Rodney Basler wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; ObTrav: Uhm... Albedo using CT, anyone?<BR><BR>I'm thinking of running Albedo RPG at the next DunDraCon.&nbsp; I wonder if<BR>there is any interest?<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; I'm also thinking of running Traveller or Striker at<BR>DunDraCon.&nbsp; Um, any interest?<BR><BR>Kristian<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:58:55 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt;Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:46:26 +0100<BR>&gt;From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt;players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt;between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; Imagine an<BR>&gt;adventure where you have to save Strephon from assassination even<BR>&gt;though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; make&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt;round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission:<BR>&gt;to reintegrate the timeline!<BR><BR><BR>Don't forget the very real possibility that another organization of<BR>time travellers will exist with a vested interest in de-integrating the<BR>time line. Or at least integrating to a different time line than the<BR>PC organization. There could conceivably be a number of different<BR>groups each intent on preserving a different version of reality.<BR><BR>David Shayne<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:19:03 -0500<BR>From: Charles R Hensley &lt;hensley.cr@gte.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On to The Far Future<BR><BR>Charles C. wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Personally, I would like to see different sourcebooks for different<BR>eras<BR>&gt;(BTW, I prefer "eras" to "milieux", which just means "middles" to me<BR>and<BR><BR>I agree.<BR><BR>&gt;As for the commercial viability of such a move, maybe it isn't a great<BR>&gt;idea to split resources too thinly.&nbsp; Pick three eras and go with that,<BR>&gt;tops.&nbsp; But the failure of T4 to make this work has more to do with<BR>shoddy<BR>&gt;editing/design and the overall failure of the _game_ rather than the<BR>&gt;setting, I think.&nbsp; Personally, I picked up T4, tried it out, went<BR>"bleh!"<BR>&gt;and never even bought any supplements.&nbsp; I'm sure lots of other people<BR>had<BR>&gt;the same experience.<BR><BR>I would like to see 2 to 3 eras: early (long night, M0, or M200), civil<BR>war, and/or 1100.&nbsp; With "history book" supplements to cover the other<BR>eras.&nbsp; Published adventures would be set in the main eras for the game.<BR>This&nbsp; would allow those who wish to&nbsp; set up campaigns in other eras<BR>without spending too much resources on them.<BR><BR>Charles H<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:47:27 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On 10/20/00 at 08:06 PM,&nbsp; mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson) said:<BR><BR>&gt;In-Reply-To: &lt;001301c03a33$5785bf20$3400a8c0@animerulz.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>&gt;Personally, I would be in favour of removing all the 'history' and<BR>&gt;stick&nbsp; to providing game mechanics with which people can build the<BR>&gt;universes THEY&nbsp; want to game in...<BR><BR>&gt;So I suppose it doesn't bother me what history they hang on the<BR>&gt;mechanics,&nbsp; 'cos I strip it out anyway :-)<BR><BR>Precisely! &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Mexal, and Bruce have it right.&nbsp; Give me good rules and mechanics<BR>for building *my* future history...oh, yeah, that's right!&nbsp; We have<BR>that in CT!&nbsp; And TNE, too!&lt;g&gt;&nbsp; Although, we could always use more.<BR><BR>I don't have anything against there being "official" Traveller<BR>timelines, whether CT, MT, HT, TNE, or GT, but in games I run the<BR>history and the future of the universe won't be constrained by them.<BR><BR>In my Akus PBEM, the basic assumptions about the science of the<BR>universe is Traveller, and so is much of the feel of the culture,<BR>but the details are different.&nbsp; Different star patterns, different<BR>polities, different histories and backgrounds, even different<BR>technologies where appropriate, but still very much Traveller.&nbsp; Ask<BR>my players, if you don't believe me. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>I've said it before and I'll say it again, Traveller isn't *a*<BR>setting, nor is it *a* ruleset.&nbsp; IMO, what makes Traveller special<BR>are a few basic assmumptions about Adventuring in the Far Future<BR>that give all the Traveller versions a unique "feel."&nbsp; Maintain that<BR>"feel" and you have Traveller regardless of setting or rules.<BR><BR><BR>Eris,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; the Heretic <BR><BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3191<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3192</B></TD></TR>
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<TD vAlign=top width="10%">Date: </TD>
<TD>10/21/00 7:07:35 AM Pacific Daylight Time</TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Saturday, October 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3192<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>RE: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>RE: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>RE: Perry Rhodan<BR>Re: Animation (was Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?)<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>RE: identify the quote<BR>RE: Milieu 0<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Anthony Rogers<BR>Re: Perry Rhodan<BR>Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>RE: Buttered Cat CG (was:&nbsp; Quantum Computing )<BR>RE: Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR>RE: Albedo using CT<BR>RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Albedo using CT (OT)<BR>RE: Albedo using CT (OT)<BR>re: Milieu 0<BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:47:38 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; They've shown Battlestar Galactica before. I don't think it's on the<BR>&gt;&gt; current schedule. But as I recall, they've *never* shown Galactica<BR>&gt;&gt; 1980.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; They did show Galactica 80 on Sci Fi a while back.&nbsp; Must have been about a<BR>&gt; good 2-3 years.&nbsp; I distinctly recall watching the really bad episode<BR>&gt; involving a broken Cylon warrior crashing various Halloween parties<BR>&gt; searching for some Colonial Viper pilots.&nbsp; Ahh, who am I kidding?&nbsp; All the<BR>&gt; episodes were bad.<BR><BR>As I said before, "The Return of Starbuck" was ok.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:51:41 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; "Anthony Rogers, the Han consul is waiting for you in courtesy lounge 4"<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;semi-obscure SF reference&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; How many Bucks do I get for recognizing the reference?&nbsp; ;-)<BR><BR>You got the "obvious" reference (Mr. Roger's nickname). Did you get the<BR>"subtle" one?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:38:31 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR><BR>Rodney Basler wrote<BR>&gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;lashes tail briefly in irritation, then relaxes and laughs&gt;<BR>&lt;snip&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;/facetious mode on&gt; Not that Sci-Fi fans or gamers ever take<BR>&gt; things to extremes...no, heaven forbid ....<BR>&gt; (remembering the person who was remodeling his bedroom in<BR>&gt; faux-stone walls and wrought-iron sconces)&lt;/facetious mode off&gt;<BR><BR>I agree, faux-stone is ridiculous.<BR><BR>You need real stone so you've got something to attach the manacles and<BR>pulleys to.<BR><BR>BTW, my wife just bought two wrought-iron sconces...<BR><BR>&gt; In all seriousness, we Traveller players tend to be the most "normal"<BR>&gt; and sedate of the bunch.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Ever seen some of the Vampire/World of Darkness players?<BR>&gt; &lt;shudder&gt;.<BR><BR>You can talk, you have a tail !<BR><BR>And here was I thinking the furries were just the lycanthrope sub-set of the<BR>WoD players.<BR>&lt;grin&gt;<BR><BR>Anyway, I never look weird when I dress in character, I naturally have large<BR>canines.<BR><BR>IMO it's the Klingons that are the weirdest. I mean, learning a language and<BR>going on a voluntary Boot Camp, and looking ugly but getting no kewl<BR>powers...<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:46:28 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR><BR>GypsyComet@aol.com wrote :<BR>&gt; But based on my DunDraCon<BR>&gt; experiences, the "Wall of Vampire Players" would make a poor M:tG<BR>&gt; card, as&nbsp; they always seem to melt away when someone approaches<BR>&gt; in a loud Hawaiian&nbsp; shirt...<BR><BR>That's because in the World of Darkness, the only people who can get away<BR>with wearing loud Hawaian shirts are bad-assed mo'f---ers.<BR><BR>And usually only Nosferatu Methusalahs are obnoxious enough to do so.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:50:11 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Perry Rhodan<BR><BR>trentfs@ix.netcom.com wrote:<BR>&gt; Anyhow, these guys are<BR>&gt; out there, and presumably have some kind of publication rights<BR>&gt; (since the books I saw had color covers and looked at least<BR>&gt; semi-pro), so I suppose they'd be the ones to seek out.<BR><BR>Orbit used to publish English translations in England, and Ace used to do<BR>them in the US, in the "Ace Pocketbook" style, I have several of each. The<BR>Orbit versions had Foss covers for the first 15 or 20 books.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 01:10:25 -0500<BR>From: Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Animation (was Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?)<BR><BR>At 05:30 PM 10/19/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Jeff Zeitlin wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; 3. Tron&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; [a landmark in technique]<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;So Tron (who else remembers the TRace ON command, and its counterpart<BR>&gt;TROFF?) is an example of TL 7 animation. Maybe Toy Story 2 is an example of<BR>&gt;TL 8 animation. Sooner or later, certainly not later that TL 10, we will<BR>&gt;have animation which is as good as the real thing. No more real celebrities,<BR>&gt;just computer constructs. By typical Traveller TL, which is 14 to 16, we<BR>&gt;should have some pretty fancy stuff. You probably can't tell the difference.<BR>&gt;You also probably can't play the advanced TL entertainment on lower TL<BR>&gt;equipment, since you don't have enough processing power, memory, or<BR>&gt;whatever.<BR><BR>In the Rebellion source book, they mention a highly charismatic <BR>Vargr&nbsp; named Oekhsos who is a music star whose music sometimes carries a <BR>political message. The big secret is that he doesn't exist. He is <BR>completely computer generated. The tech level for most of the Vargr ship <BR>designs I've seen run around 11-12.<BR><BR>Richard Wilson <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 23:13:06 -0700<BR>From: "Legate Legion" &lt;legate@futureone.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt;"Anthony Rogers, the Han consul is waiting for you in courtesy lounge 4"<BR><BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; One question, would that be the Good (First) Season of "Buck Rodgers",<BR>or the crappy second season?&nbsp; I am of course refering to the one with Gil<BR>Gerard.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I bid you peace.<BR><BR>Legate Legion, Section 31 Agent at Large.<BR>ICQ # 8973001<BR>legate@futureone.com<BR><BR>"I am a Ranger. We live for the One, we die for the One. We go to the dark<BR>places where no one else dares venture! We stand on the bridge and no one<BR>passes. Entil'zha Veni!"<BR><BR>"I don't need Romance.&nbsp; I have goldfish.", Zak Kebron, Chief of Security,<BR>USS Excaliber.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:36 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;01020.164906.0I2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Hmm - X-Boat Pilot uniform... how about a set of coveralls (or "driver's <BR>uniform" pants and jacket - like the brown stuff UPS men wear) in perhaps <BR>grey... then add a few patches and 'X-Boat Service' stencilled across the <BR>back. Wear a bright coloured turtle- or polo-neck shirt underneath, and <BR>combat boots/DMs, NOT polished. Look reasonably scruffy, coveralls <BR>crumpled, don't brush your hair, roll the sleeves up, etc.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:05:12 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: identify the quote<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jones, Dean wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Identify the quote time again:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;'ThE MASter wouldn'T APPRove.'<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt;Clue on the flyleaf dedication for FF&amp;S <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Isn't that what Torgo the Gimp, from the movie "Manos, the <BR>&gt; Hands of Fate"<BR>&gt; always said? <BR><BR>Totally correct! But Torgo was a monster! Look at his knees! Urgh!<BR><BR>A low-budget, twilight of the drive-in era horror flick,<BR>&gt; skewered by the MST3K crew.&nbsp; Torgo became a minor recurring <BR>&gt; character on<BR>&gt; MST3K after that (don't get a pizza from him).<BR><BR>'I couldn't get through to Togo's Pizza, so I called Torgo's Pizza'<BR><BR>'Mmm, two hours late and it's still warm! Yeugh!'<BR><BR>&nbsp; I didn't know he was <BR>&gt; mentioned in FFS (I presume FFS1, which I don't have; can't <BR>&gt; find a reference<BR>&gt; to him in FFS2).<BR><BR>I'm pretty sure it was FFS1 (the one with all the TNE logos on it and the<BR>grav-tanks on the cover). Torgo isn't actually mentioned...the book is<BR>dedicated to Joel, Gypsy, Tom and Crow. I figure any MSTie worth his salt<BR>would know Torgo.<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ludowick (big fan of "B" movies &amp; MST3K)<BR>&gt; &lt;sound of Torgo Theme playing quietly in the background...&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>'de-de-de duh-de-de-de' :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:28:52 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Milieu 0<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;What does the little "." after many of the world names<BR>&gt; &gt; mean? I need to know!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's called a full-stop, it means the sentence has finished.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;grin&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Frankie<BR><BR>Thank Klono I'm the only one stupid enough to be in the office at the<BR>weekend...I'd hate to have to explain why I just killed my keyboard :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:35:42 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 18:46:26 +0100<BR>&gt; &gt;From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt;players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt; &gt;between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; Imagine an<BR>&gt; &gt;adventure where you have to save Strephon from assassination even<BR>&gt; &gt;though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; make&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt;round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission:<BR>&gt; &gt;to reintegrate the timeline!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Don't forget the very real possibility that another organization of<BR>&gt; time travellers will exist with a vested interest in <BR>&gt; de-integrating the<BR>&gt; time line. Or at least integrating to a different time line than the<BR>&gt; PC organization. There could conceivably be a number of different<BR>&gt; groups each intent on preserving a different version of reality.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Naturally...ya gotta have enemies!<BR><BR>Dean <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 21:59:03 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; 1. Ships would spin for gravity. You could design them like in MiGE (down<BR>&gt; is out when drifting, down is sideways when thrusting, if you get my<BR>&gt; meaning).&nbsp; Something with "variable geometry" could also be designed to<BR>&gt; handle both types of inertial gravity.&nbsp; In general space travel becomes a<BR>&gt; lot less convenient.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2. Ship combat becomes a very different beast.&nbsp; Acheiving lots of thrust<BR>&gt; without the magical thruster plates turns out to be quite difficult.&nbsp; In<BR>&gt; MiGE, IIRC, they would sometimes thrust for days at 3 g.&nbsp; That would be<BR>&gt; tough to acheive (maybe impossible) with reaction-based thrusters. So<BR>&gt; you're looking at a TNE-style combat where stealth is the thing and once<BR>&gt; you're locked on you're in trouble.&nbsp; (No Alderson Fields in trav, but you<BR>&gt; could add them in...)<BR><BR>With fusion rockets, you can get so rather high performance figures<BR>without&nbsp; getting into insanity like HEPlaR.<BR><BR>&gt; 3. W/o inertial compensation, ship accel is probably limited to 3 or 4 g. <BR>&gt; It's hard to say what the exact limit is.&nbsp; We know that humans can take a<BR>&gt; lot more than that for short periods, but no data exists for withstanding<BR>&gt; multiple gee-forces for more than a few minutes.&nbsp; Space combat typically<BR>&gt; lasts hours under most rules systems, and there's nothing on what people<BR>&gt; can take for those sorts of times. One now has to worry about hurting<BR>&gt; passengers by pulling too much gee in combat (like Horace Bury in MiGE). <BR><BR>Actually such data *does* exist. From centrifuge experiments. As I<BR>recall, the data says 3-4 g "indefinitely".<BR><BR>&gt; 6. Landing on planets becomes tougher.&nbsp; Reaction thrusters tend to make a<BR>&gt; mess, so shuttles will be the more common way of getting to the surface.<BR>&gt; Another aspect of "less convenient" space travel.<BR><BR>Well, it's also possible to "de-rate" a fusion rocket to NERVA like<BR>performance, or simply use the fusion reactor to heat *air* to a<BR>plasma. <BR><BR>That'd require airscoops or extra fuel. And make the ship somewhat more<BR>complicated. But it'd still take less space than a shuttle.<BR><BR>&gt; This would change things alot.&nbsp; One of the central aspects of trav's<BR>&gt; background is that slow comms leads to local power being necessary,<BR>&gt; including when the PCs are "local power".&nbsp; Something I was never sure<BR>&gt; about in MiGE was why they didn't have jump torpedoes: Just send a small<BR>&gt; missle through and broadcast a message (was there a big drive necessary? <BR>&gt; I don't remember). Have a network of these and you have very speedy comms<BR>&gt; all across the empire.&nbsp; A similar set up in the Imperium would lead to<BR>&gt; maybe a matter of days to get info from Capital to the Marches (as opposed<BR>&gt; to the months it takes in canon). <BR><BR>Actually, I think that it could be as little as hours. The X-boats<BR>transmit the *uregent* stuff as soon as possible after exiting jump,<BR>and the waiting X-boat jumps as soon as it gets a "go" code in the<BR>message stream. For *really* urgent stuff, that could be a couple of<BR>minutes of comm lag &amp; transmission. <BR><BR>Anybody know offhand how many jumps it takes to get from Capital to<BR>Regina via the X-boat routes?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:32:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Anthony Rogers<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Armageddon 2419 AD by Philip Frances Nowlan<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Originally published in two serials in 1928 &amp; 1929<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"Anthony Rogers, the Han consul is waiting for you in courtesy lounge 4"<BR>&gt;&gt;&lt;semi-obscure SF reference&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Followed up by the decent "Mordred" written by John Eric Holmes (outline by <BR>&gt; Niven &amp; Pournelle), and two bloody aweful seuales by Richard S. McEnroe.<BR><BR>I assume you are referring to sequels to "Armageddon: 2419 AD" and not<BR>to the TV series.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 22:25:17 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Perry Rhodan<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I used to work with a guy who was somehow involved in publishing<BR>&gt; English translations of Perry Rhodan serials.&nbsp; I wasn't on<BR>&gt; particularly friendly terms with him (to put it politely) so I don't<BR>&gt; have any details or contact info or anything, but I know he used to<BR>&gt; sell the stuff at SF Cons, and presumably still does (since this was<BR>&gt; within the last year).&nbsp; Anyhow, these guys are out there, and<BR>&gt; presumably have some kind of publication rights (since the books I<BR>&gt; saw had color covers and looked at least semi-pro), so I suppose<BR>&gt; they'd be the ones to seek out.<BR><BR>Are you sure he was involved with *publishing* them? As opposed to<BR>merely *selling* very good to mint condition "used" copies?<BR><BR>You see, Ace books printed something like 200 "volumes" of the series<BR>about 20-25 years back. And they do still get sold at cons.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 03:48:54 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR><BR>Dulinor was a Democrat?<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:49:12 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Buttered Cat CG (was:&nbsp; Quantum Computing )<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; Therefore, a cat with a slice of buttered bread strapped to its back<BR>&gt; will display CG characteristics, since the tendency for a slice of<BR>&gt; butterd bread to land butter-side-down will cancel the tendency for a<BR>&gt; cat to land on its feet.&nbsp; Presumably, the power requirement for CG is<BR>&gt; based both on providing life support for the cats needed for <BR>&gt; the effect<BR>&gt; and on replenishing the buttered bread supply for CG drives.<BR><BR><BR>&lt;Applause&gt;<BR><BR>Your're overlooking one very important thing, John...the rotational motion<BR>caused by the effects of the cat trying to land on it's feet. If you try a<BR>practical experimnt where by a cat is dropped from a short height upside<BR>down, observation will reveal that the cat actually rotates such that it's<BR>legs are perpendicular to the plane of gravity and it can land on its feet.<BR>Experiments with buttered toast have revealed a similar effect. This means<BR>that a buttered-cat cg unit maintains it's CG field by constantly rotating.<BR>Simply apply an iron rod between the two and put the whole thing in a<BR>magnetic field and voila! you have a power source, a little thing I like to<BR>refer to as a 'Buttered-cat Dynamo'<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:54:56 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Jones, Dean posted:<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Dhgkhthoaeoets<BR><BR>Doug-ka Tho-ay-ets<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's easy for *you* to say.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My favorite name was that of a Droyne scientist. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; "Froudrk" (pronounced "Frow Drick")<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; He kept trying to find a hunchbacked Vargr called <BR>&gt; "Aygorh" who had a borrowed AI unit to plug into<BR>&gt; something they were trying to build.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Groan!<BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:04:04 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>No. Steve has long talked about doing one, but can't think of a title better<BR>than 'GURPS Furries' or 'Anthros'. Besides, I gave the whole thing some<BR>thought myself and there's not really enough stuff you can write with<BR>furries to justify an entire GURPS book (imho, personally I think it'd be<BR>great to see one). Furry Sci-Fi enthusiats might be interseted in Mhar: The<BR>Final Frontier, currently in production by the writers of Dela the Hooda.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; or GT.&nbsp; Is there is a furry source book for GURPS?<BR>&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; -------------<BR>&gt; urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>&gt; "Driving a Hudson Hornet on the disinformation triple bypass: <BR>&gt; cruising for<BR>&gt; burgers &amp; garage sales. Hooks baited, lines entangled, <BR>&gt; roadkill cooked"<BR>&gt; --------------------------------------------------------------<BR>&gt; -------------<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:08:29 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Well, my cable's being installed tomorrow, so soon I can watch the<BR>&gt; &gt; SciFi channel, and all the repeats of 70s-80s shows I could want :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I've got cable. They only show you the ones that they think there's<BR>&gt; enough interest in. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; They've shown Battlestar Galactica before. I don't think it's on the<BR>&gt; current schedule. But as I recall, they've *never* shown Galactica<BR>&gt; 1980.<BR><BR>Yeah, seen it...they had a 'Galactica 80 Chain Reaction'. Mind you, I'm on<BR>the UK version of SciFi, so your YMMV.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>BTW, Cable went in great...I can read TML at home now, Woo-hoo!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:37:39 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>On Saturday, October 21, 2000, at 12:45 AM, Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; From: "James Jensen"&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; And giving each its own core rule book will result in a tidy&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; profit. Don't believe me? Look how well White Wolf is doing, and they are <BR>&gt; &gt; basically just reprinting the WoD rules to match a particular setting in&nbsp; <BR>&gt; &gt; each core book, just as T5 will. So there! <BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt; NO!&nbsp; Arrgh!&nbsp; I am NOT going to keep buying the rules over and over again! <BR><BR>Yes, this did make less sense on second reading. The WoD rules are extended for each type of supernatural critter, whereas Traveler would be the same SF rules each time. Good rules, but the same.<BR><BR>&gt; Fortunately, in the past Marc has suggested including a default Milieu with<BR>&gt; the T5 rules, and having a series of stand-alone entry points - relatively<BR>&gt; rules-light sourcebooks, that, with the core rules, allow you to start<BR>&gt; playing in the milieu.<BR><BR>That sounds great.<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:41:25 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Albedo using CT (OT)<BR><BR>The species stuff from TMNT (anthropomorphising various animals to various degrees with various abilities), Xtaur rules, various furry psychology traits... There must be enough for a slim GURPS Anthropomorphics...<BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR><BR>On Saturday, October 21, 2000, at 12:04 PM, Jones, Dean wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; No. Steve has long talked about doing one, but can't think of a title better <BR>&gt; than 'GURPS Furries' or 'Anthros'. Besides, I gave the whole thing some <BR>&gt; thought myself and there's not really enough stuff you can write with <BR>&gt; furries to justify an entire GURPS book (imho, personally I think it'd be <BR>&gt; great to see one). <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:48:48 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Albedo using CT (OT)<BR><BR>Heck, a sourcebook on realworld furry psychology would be several hundred pages! :-)<BR><BR>- - Rob (long time alt.fan.furry subscriber).<BR><BR>On Saturday, October 21, 2000, at 01:41 PM, Rob Myers wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; various furry psychology traits... <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:01:50 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: re: Milieu 0<BR><BR>At 23:27 -0400 19/10/00, James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt;Why aren't the member worlds of the Chanestin Kingdom and Interstellar<BR>&gt;Confederacy marked? Why does the map focus on the Sylean Federation instead<BR>&gt;of the 3I circa 0? What does the little "." after many of the world names<BR>&gt;mean? I need to know!<BR><BR>The Chanestin Kingdom is to the bottom right. The Confederacy is Top <BR>left, down a subsector.<BR><BR>The map is the regressed data file and probably represents around <BR>- -20, and was prepared separate to the book AFAIK. The map was also <BR>produced by IG who weren't that good at those sorts of things.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:59:10 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>At 23:27 -0400 19/10/00, "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Unless I'm mistaken, this is a problem that occurs only in GT. CT doesn't<BR>&gt;use the concept. Neither does T4. Regardless, I see jump as the entering and<BR>&gt;exiting of another dimension, and the only time a ship in jump makes contact<BR>&gt;with normal space in any way is when their entering and exiting. GT's Jump<BR>&gt;Masking is rather insane and non-canon. Ships have always historically been<BR>&gt;able to jump from point A to point B regardless of what's in between!<BR><BR>Jump masking was described by Marc Miller here on TML on one of his <BR>posts on T4.1 - it should be in the archive somewhere. This may well <BR>make it canon ;-o<BR><BR><BR>I do seem to remember that there was also a limited jump route table <BR>for each world in an early printing of CT (I think Leonard mentioned <BR>it?).<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:54:40 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 23:27 -0400 19/10/00, "Jeffrey Yin" &lt;jsyin@cats.ucsc.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;If you are going to allow the Imperium to collapse, then decanonizing TNE is<BR>&gt;simply inefficient. The final method of the collapse is not as important as<BR>&gt;the resolution. Maintiang the TNE line provides for a ressurected Imperium<BR>&gt;via a successful Regency. Without respect to TNE's many short comings (which<BR>&gt;I myself concede do exist), there is no reason why an official Traveller<BR>&gt;timeline cannot include that change of events.<BR><BR>I think that you are completely failing to appreciate the impact of <BR>Virus. Virus destroys absolutely everything. Not just the Third <BR>Imperium. It collapses the Solomani Confederation, Hiver Federation, <BR>the Two Thousand Worlds, the Aslan Hierate, and the Vargr Extents. <BR>Technological society is destroyed with the exception of the Regency, <BR>the Zhodani and the Ihatei colonies. The survivors are pretty <BR>anti-technology and anti-Imperium.<BR><BR>So a collapse via Hard Times (valid in canon to 1129 anyway) is <BR>significantly different to a collapse via Virus. They are two, <BR>completely different resolutions. One leaves a technology and <BR>population base, The other destroys it.<BR><BR>Agreed, Virus is a great way to 'efficiently' destroy the background <BR>setting but I would be more interested in a Traveller settings where <BR>the memory of the greatness remains without the insularity of the <BR>Regency. If you allow a Hard Times collapse, you will have some <BR>significant Safes (Pocket Empires), Wilds, Frontiers and other states <BR>trying to move into the power vacuum. To me, much more interesting.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:11:07 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 23:27 -0400 19/10/00, "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;I always thought that what killed Milieu: 0 was that the book is a piece of<BR>&gt;crap. I don't have First Survey, and I probably won't get it now that<BR>&gt;Imperium Games is well and truly dead, but I do have M0, and I can't play it<BR>&gt;as is. The map doesn't even match the rest of the book.<BR><BR>That's because Imperium Games decided to change the map in use <BR>without telling the authors. If I get my old mail archive recovered <BR>I'll put the corrections on my website (or on CORE's).<BR><BR>&gt;(On an aside, I'd like to say that GT's having Grandfather in a pocket<BR>&gt;universe somewhere is rather pointless.)<BR><BR>Not GT's , CT's.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3192<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Saturday, October 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3193<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Milieu 0<BR>Re: Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: The Game Systems....<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: GURPS Perry Rhodan<BR>RE: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>Re: GURPS Perry Rhodan<BR>Re: Secret of the Ancients<BR>RE: identify the quote<BR>Re: SotA part 2<BR>RE: Uniforms<BR>Re: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>Starport Announcements (was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition))<BR>RE: Cargo as a Revenue<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3192<BR>Re: Anthony Rogers<BR>RE: Albedo using CT<BR>CT/MT careers<BR>Re: Buttered Cat CG (was:&nbsp; Quantum Computing )<BR>Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 08:06:58 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 20:09 -0400 19/10/00,&nbsp; Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Hmmm.... why stop at TNE, we could de-canonise MT<BR><BR>Because this was *my* gibbering and I like MT's setting.<BR><BR>The rest of the post =&nbsp; ROFLOL!<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:31:08 EDT<BR>From: Traveller6571851@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Milieu 0<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/21/00 5:31:43 AM, Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;What does the little "." after many of the world names<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; mean? I need to know!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; It's called a full-stop, it means the sentence has finished.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &lt;grin&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Frankie<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Thank Klono I'm the only one stupid enough to be in the office at the<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;weekend...I'd hate to have to explain why I just killed my keyboard :)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Dean<BR><BR>I thought the use of a period after the world name in a UWP listing meant <BR>that system was independent?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:31:12 EDT<BR>From: Traveller6571851@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/21/00 5:57:43 AM, Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Jones, Dean posted:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Dhgkhthoaeoets<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Doug-ka Tho-ay-ets<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; That's easy for *you* to say.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; My favorite name was that of a Droyne scientist. <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; "Froudrk" (pronounced "Frow Drick")<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; He kept trying to find a hunchbacked Vargr called <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; "Aygorh" who had a borrowed AI unit to plug into<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; something they were trying to build.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Groan!<BR><BR>FUROW BLUE-KLA!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:31:20 EDT<BR>From: Traveller6571851@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/20/00 8:23:51 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;What sort of uniforms do you imagine for Imperial/Zhodani/etc. Navy,<BR>&gt;Marine<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;and Scout personnel?&nbsp; Officers vs. enlisted?&nbsp; Branches?&nbsp; Colors, styles?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Ground Forces is at the printer, and will answer those questions in detail<BR>&gt;&gt; regarding the Imperial Marines and Army.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Or you can go to:<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; http://www.vision-forge-graphics.com/jesse/traveller/baycon_2000.htm<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; and see what I did for the BayCon party last year.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Based on canonical information, the Scouts are probably very loose about<BR>&gt;&gt; uniforms.&nbsp; The probably have a dress uniform for those occasions when<BR>&gt;they<BR>&gt;&gt; needed one; but in the field each team dresses according to situation<BR>&gt;and<BR>&gt;&gt; taste.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The one thing I did make universal among Scout s was the TL-15 Vacc Suit<BR>&gt;&gt; from MT.&nbsp; This was a skinsuit, and just looked like the sort of things<BR>&gt;that<BR>&gt;&gt; a Scout would wear all the time.<BR><BR>Did not FASA (I think that ws the company) put out a Scout supplement that <BR>had a Scout Uniform in it that doubles as Armor, ID, and last ditch defense <BR>mechanism?<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 07:35:41<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: The Game Systems....<BR><BR>At 05:03 PM 10/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;BTW, have you ever seen the video?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; A long time ago, sufficiently long ago that I can only remember bits and <BR>&gt;&gt; pieces, though I seem to recall some well-known group of puppets which <BR>&gt;&gt; parodied leading US political figures being in it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Isn't it the one that includes a lot of tromping thru a jungle by<BR>&gt;muppets/marionettes?. <BR><BR>The "Land of Confusion" video was done by those lovely folks at Spitting<BR>Image.&nbsp; Among the leaders shown were Ronald Reagan and Nancy (and Bonzo!),<BR>Gorbachev, Maggie Thatcher, and Col. Qaddafi.&nbsp; Also appearing were several<BR>dinosaurs, Rambo, and the Genesis puppets themselves.<BR><BR>The "tromping" bit was actually done by having a camera zig-zag around the<BR>unfinished head forms for the puppets, in a dry-ice fog with reeds and the<BR>like.&nbsp; Gave a very spooky feeling.<BR><BR>This video consistently lands in the top 20 of all time.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 07:37:13<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>At 04:49 PM 10/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Anybody have any suggestions for an "X-boat 'pilot'" uniform?<BR><BR>To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why bother?&nbsp; When I<BR>had to get dressed, basic coveralls with the Communications Branch logo<BR>would be appropriate.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:51:39 EDT<BR>From: Traveller6571851@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/21/00 4:38:27 AM, mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk <BR>writes:<BR><BR>&gt;In-Reply-To: &lt;01020.164906.0I2.rnr.w165w@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt;Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hmm - X-Boat Pilot uniform... how about a set of coveralls (or "driver's<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;uniform" pants and jacket - like the brown stuff UPS men wear) in perhaps<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;grey... then add a few patches and 'X-Boat Service' stencilled across the<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;back. Wear a bright colored turtle- or polo-neck shirt underneath, and<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;combat boots/DMs, NOT polished. Look reasonably scruffy, coveralls <BR>&gt;crumpled, don't brush your hair, roll the sleeves up, etc.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Hugs and kisses,<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Mexal.<BR><BR>X-Boat Pilots spend a lot of time in space - ALONE, right?<BR>Reminds me of the Missile Crews pulling underground alert in the Midwest <BR>during the height of the Cold War.<BR>There was the one about when the Headquarters put out a policy admonishing <BR>crews regarding uniform wear. "All Crewmembers WILL be wearing their squadron <BR>scarves and sidearm when opening the blast door at all TIMES!" Needless to <BR>say, the next time some staff officer went out to see a crew on duty, when <BR>the blast door opened that was what they were wearing! And that was all! <BR>(unless you count the smile)!<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:21:54 -0400<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Removing gravitic technology would have some effects on starship<BR>&gt; design.&nbsp; HEPlaR would become the standard thrust agency for starships<BR>&gt; (as per TNE).<BR><BR>I must admit that I never played anything involving Traveller past MT so if<BR>you could please explain to me where I could find information on HEPlaR I<BR>would greatly appreciate it.&nbsp; I was assuming a standard hydrogen reaction<BR>mass for propulsion (in fact, before MT that is how I had assumed ships used<BR>that much fuel...)<BR><BR>&gt; Instantaneous Jump would increase communications speed tremendously,<BR>&gt; even under the limitations of the Alderson Drive from MiGE.&nbsp; After all,<BR>&gt; with relay ships (similar to x-boats) waiting at Alderson Points,<BR>&gt; messages could travel within system at lightspeed, and between systems<BR>&gt; nearly instantly.<BR><BR>If I remember correctly there were different points in each system that<BR>corresponded to different star systems, so unless you were to post a X-boat<BR>at each Alderson Point you need to travel there yourself to make the jump.<BR>Adding in the effect of the use of reaction mass and a limited acceleration<BR>then you may up intersystem travel time in exchange for time "elsewhere"<BR>(Jumpspace, Hyperspace, etc have always bothered me)<BR><BR>&gt; PS:&nbsp; Please send only plain text mail to the TML.&nbsp; Rich Text and/or HTML<BR>&gt; e-mails tend to add a bunch of garbage to the digest version.<BR><BR>sorry for the inconvenience...<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti<BR>acoloset@kent.edu<BR><BR><BR><BR>- ---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:23:47 EDT<BR>From: TRiepe5898@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: GURPS Perry Rhodan<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; BTW, Loren? It occurs to me that if Perry Rhodan still enjoys any sort<BR>&gt; of popularity in Germany, a GURPS: Perry Rhodan might sell well there.<BR>&gt; And it's different enough from most US SF, while still being "super<BR>&gt; science space opera" that some of the US fans who bought the US<BR>&gt; editions of the book (again, back in the 70s) might buy a few copies<BR>&gt; also.<BR><BR>A few years ago, a German company named Agema published several Perry Rhodan <BR>games and expansions, including a space comabt game, a tactical boarding <BR>action game a la AHL, and a role-playing game. There was also a Perry Rhodan <BR>trading card game, by Fantasy Productions IIRC.&nbsp; <BR><BR>I dont know anything about the quality of these games, and Im pretty sure <BR>none of them are in print anymore. But if youre interested in Perry Rhodan ( <BR>btw Im not - never read any of the books ), you might try contacting German <BR>game stores, or FanPro for the TCG. Maybe somebody still has the rights for <BR>the line.<BR><BR>HTH<BR><BR>Tobias Riepe<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 09:33:31 -0500<BR>From: Dragoness Eclectic &lt;cyhiggin@pipeline.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR><BR>On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, you wrote:<BR>&gt; Rodney Basler wrote<BR>&gt; &gt; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;lashes tail briefly in irritation, then relaxes and laughs&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;snip&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; In all seriousness, we Traveller players tend to be the most "normal"<BR>&gt; &gt; and sedate of the bunch.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Ever seen some of the Vampire/World of Darkness players?<BR>&gt; &gt; &lt;shudder&gt;.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You can talk, you have a tail !<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And here was I thinking the furries were just the lycanthrope sub-set of the<BR>&gt; WoD players.<BR>&gt; &lt;grin&gt;<BR>[snip]<BR>&gt; IMO it's the Klingons that are the weirdest. I mean, learning a language and<BR>&gt; going on a voluntary Boot Camp, and looking ugly but getting no kewl<BR>&gt; powers...<BR><BR>Cynthia considers the recent surge in popularity of a certain anime<BR>series...<BR><BR>Just wait until the Saiyajin start showing up--Kllingons with tails. <BR>;-)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Cynthia<BR><BR>- -- <BR>"..all I do is tell the Truth to the gods.. and I may sometimes<BR>use it for a controlling spell because it is so rarely heard."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; --Indrajit, the Ramayana<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------------<BR>http://www.pipeline.com/~cyhiggin/&nbsp; ****&nbsp; &nbsp; cyhiggin@pipeline.com<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:30:26 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: GURPS Perry Rhodan<BR><BR>At 11:23 21.10.00 -0400, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; BTW, Loren? It occurs to me that if Perry Rhodan still enjoys any sort<BR>&gt; &gt; of popularity in Germany, a GURPS: Perry Rhodan might sell well there.<BR>&gt; &gt; And it's different enough from most US SF, while still being "super<BR>&gt; &gt; science space opera" that some of the US fans who bought the US<BR>&gt; &gt; editions of the book (again, back in the 70s) might buy a few copies<BR>&gt; &gt; also.<BR>It would be a nice idea, especially since PR is getting better and better <BR>by the issue since we have passed issue 2000 last December.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:35:34 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Secret of the Ancients<BR><BR>In a message dated 20-Oct-00 12:07:22 PM Central Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&gt; I don't know how anyone else feels, but _Secret of the Ancients_ is my<BR>&gt;&nbsp; number one CT pick for decanonization with extreme prejudice.&nbsp; The<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Ancients work as a continuing mystery.&nbsp; They suck as an 'adventure' which<BR>&gt;&nbsp; consists largely of being pulled through a lot of cheesy exposition.&nbsp; SotA<BR>&gt;&nbsp; works about as well as an X-Files episode in which a little grey guy walks<BR>&gt;&nbsp; up to Moulder and begins describing the entire alien plan in detail would<BR>&gt;&nbsp; - -- there's an initial satisfaction and excitement, sure, but pretty soon<BR>&gt;&nbsp; it gets to feeling silly and pointless.&nbsp; Nothing you can show explicitly<BR>&gt;&nbsp; will live up to the fevered imaginings you can induce with hints and<BR>&gt;&nbsp; misdirection and carefully managed dollops of evidence.<BR><BR>Reference to my JTAS editorial on this same topic several months ago.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:38:49 -0500<BR>From: "Moody, Danny M." &lt;Danny.Moody@bridge.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: identify the quote<BR><BR>&gt; From: Jones, Dean [mailto:Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com]<BR><BR>&gt; 'I couldn't get through to Togo's Pizza, so I called Torgo's Pizza'<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; 'Mmm, two hours late and it's still warm! Yeugh!'<BR><BR>"Your Mr Pibb, Sir..."<BR><BR>"Noooooooo!!!!"<BR><BR><BR>-- vargr1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>The three principle virtues of a good programmer&nbsp;&nbsp; | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:38:36 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: SotA part 2<BR><BR>&gt; Frankly, I think shedding *any* light on the nature of the Ancients<BR>&gt;&nbsp; (including very basic things, like their relationship to the Droyne)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; was a mistake. <BR><BR>Perhaps. But bear in mind it was the single most demanded product GDW had <BR>produced up to that time -- fans _wanted_ that book in the worst way . . . <BR>right up until they got it. <BR><BR>Then the reaction was pretty much as you describe -- a big let-down. We <BR>should have seen it coming, but we didn't. As I said, I dealt with this in a <BR>JTAS editirial a while back.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:40:22 -0500<BR>From: "Moody, Danny M." &lt;Danny.Moody@bridge.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Uniforms<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;Anybody have any suggestions for an "X-boat 'pilot'" uniform?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why <BR>&gt; bother?<BR><BR>Because vinyl chafes me so?&nbsp; I think a modicum of protection from sticking<BR>to the seat, scraping yourself on the control panel, etc would be warranted.<BR>A light coverall, or even just a t-shirt and shorts.<BR><BR>Besides, it makes clean up of the X-boat so much easier.<BR><BR>vargr1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; UPP-8D9B85<BR>Meyers-Briggs personality type: ENTJ&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; vargr1@jcn1*com<BR>"...the ENTJ is not one to be trifled with."&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; dmoody@bridge*com<BR>- --------------------------- Molon Labe! ---------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:46:37 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR><BR>"Frank G. Pitt" wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; GypsyComet@aol.com wrote :<BR>&gt; &gt; But based on my DunDraCon<BR>&gt; &gt; experiences, the "Wall of Vampire Players" would make a poor M:tG<BR>&gt; &gt; card, as&nbsp; they always seem to melt away when someone approaches<BR>&gt; &gt; in a loud Hawaiian&nbsp; shirt...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; That's because in the World of Darkness, the only people who can get away<BR>&gt; with wearing loud Hawaian shirts are bad-assed mo'f---ers.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; And usually only Nosferatu Methusalahs are obnoxious enough to do so.<BR><BR>Or Malkavians....<BR><BR>ObTrav:&nbsp; One could get some interesting results by introducing Vargr<BR>into a WoD game (or Garou into a Traveller game)....<BR><BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 10:43:01 -0500<BR>From: "Moody, Danny M." &lt;Danny.Moody@bridge.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Starport Announcements (was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition))<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; By the way, this year's theme is Sylea Downport Waiting <BR>&gt; Room.&nbsp; If we can't<BR>&gt; &gt; get the Shiny New Computer(tm) in time, I'll be looking for <BR>&gt; someone who can<BR>&gt; &gt; put together some CDs with appropriate music, interrupted <BR>&gt; by starport-ish<BR>&gt; &gt; announcments.&nbsp; (The ultraviolet zone is for methane breathers only.<BR>&gt; &gt; Please, no standard oxygen breathers in the ultraviolet <BR>&gt; zone.&nbsp; Will the<BR>&gt; &gt; owner/parent of the large green thing left in concourse <BR>&gt; five please pick up<BR>&gt; &gt; the courtesy line?&nbsp; Your pet/offspring is emitting smoke.)<BR><BR>Doug:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I would be happy to help in this.&nbsp; I have an old album (yes - an LP) from the evil Disney people that has a veritable plethora of sounds, etc - including some 'alien language' snippets that would be great for this.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I can send you some samples if you want.<BR><BR><BR>-- vargr1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>The three principle virtues of a good programmer&nbsp;&nbsp; | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:56:50 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Cargo as a Revenue<BR><BR>James Jensen writes:<BR>&gt;This'll mark me as the ultimate newbie, but I don't understand the rules <BR>&gt;about shipping cargo as a revenue as described on pages 8-9 in Book 2. I can <BR>&gt;understand the speculative trade rules fairly well, but I don't understand <BR>&gt;this.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Hi James, better late than never:<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The pages you indicate describe shipping cargo for somebody else.&nbsp; For<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; example, I have just landed my freetrader on planet A and unloaded.&nbsp; I<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; am considering going next to planet B which is 1 parsec away.&nbsp; Planet<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; A is Population (Pop) 6 and Technology Level (TL) 7.&nbsp; Planet B is Pop 3,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; TL 4.&nbsp; Consulting the CARGO table on p. 11, on the line for Pop 6 and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; the column for Major cargo we find 1D+2.&nbsp; At the bottom of the table we<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; find two DM's that apply: -4 for the low Pop of my destination<BR>(Planet B)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and +3 of the TL difference between Planets A and B (4-7=3).&nbsp; Thus we<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; should have 1D6+2-4+3 = 1D6+1 lots of Major cargo awaiting shipment<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; from Planet A to Planet B.&nbsp; Rolling 1D6 we get a 4, 4+1 = 5, so there<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; are 5 lots of Major cargo awaiting shipment to Planet B.&nbsp; Each lot is<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1Dx10 tons (Major cargo), rolling 1D6 for the first lot gives us 6,<BR>6x10=60:<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; this lot is 60 tons.&nbsp; This means that there is a person or buisness,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; perhaps here on Planet A, who wishes to ship this 60 ton lot to<BR>Planet B.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; They are willing to pay Cr 60,000 if you provide this service (Cr 1,000<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; per ton).&nbsp; You could make up the cargo, or roll on the Trade and<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Speculation table to add some colour: perhaps Planet A is agricultural<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; and this is 60 tons of fava beans that the shipper has sold to a<BR>buisness<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; that processes food on Planet B.&nbsp; There are 4 other Major cargos<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; awaiting shipment to Planet B, and there may be Minor and Incidental<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cargos as well (not to mention High, Middle and/or Low passengers.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I hope this helps.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:28:12 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3192<BR><BR>&lt;Leonard Erickson&gt;<BR>&gt; 2. Ship combat becomes a very different beast.&nbsp; Acheiving lots ofthrust<BR>&gt; without the magical thruster plates turns out to be quite difficult.&nbsp; In<BR><BR>With fusion rockets, you can get so rather high performance figures<BR>without&nbsp; getting into insanity like HEPlaR.<BR>&lt;/LE&gt;<BR><BR>Well, I'm not versed enough in the technical matters to argue the point<BR>myself, but I've heard others on the list argue otherwise, that fusion<BR>rockets, while having high ISPs would not produce more than 10s of G-hours<BR>of thrust. This leads to very different space combat feel.<BR><BR><BR>&lt;LE&gt;<BR>&gt; 3. W/o inertial compensation, ship accel is probably limited to 3 or 4 g. <BR>&gt; It's hard to say what the exact limit is.&nbsp; We know that humans can take a<BR>&gt; lot more than that for short periods, but no data exists for withstanding<BR>&gt; multiple gee-forces for more than a few minutes.&nbsp; Space combat typically<BR><BR>Actually such data *does* exist. From centrifuge experiments. As I<BR>recall, the data says 3-4 g "indefinitely".<BR>&lt;/LE&gt;<BR><BR>I'd check that source again.&nbsp; I strongly suspect that they mean<BR>"indefinately"&nbsp; as in "more seconds than you would ever hold a turn in a<BR>fighter plane for".&nbsp; I doubt they tested for more than a couple of<BR>minutes. If I'm wrong, I'd really like to see the references, but my<BR>understanding is that no one's been tested in a single high-gee centrifuge<BR>run lasting more than a few minutes.<BR><BR><BR>&lt;LE&gt;<BR>message stream. For *really* urgent stuff, that could be a couple of<BR>minutes of comm lag &amp; transmission. <BR>&lt;/LE&gt;<BR><BR>I was thinking in terms of MiGE: The jump-points could be a few<BR>light-hours apart.&nbsp; Over the number of jumps required that could add up to<BR>days or weeks.<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:28:45 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Anthony Rogers<BR><BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) puts out on the Ether<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt; Armageddon 2419 AD by Philip Frances Nowlan<BR>&gt; &gt; Originally published in two serials in 1928 &amp; 1929<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;"Anthony Rogers, the Han consul is waiting for you in courtesy lounge 4"<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;&lt;semi-obscure SF reference&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Followed up by the decent "Mordred" written by John Eric Holmes <BR>&gt; (outline by<BR>&gt; &gt; Niven &amp; Pournelle), and two bloody aweful sequals by Richard S. McEnroe.<BR>&gt;I assume you are referring to sequels to "Armageddon: 2419 AD" and not<BR>&gt;to the TV series.<BR><BR>Oh ya...I've pretty much blocked out the series, except for shots of Erin <BR>Gray in a rather tight jumpsuit.<BR><BR><BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>"This has the characteristic look and feel of a complete fiasco."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:32:21 -0400<BR>From: Mark Urbin &lt;urbin@bigfoot.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>"Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; releases into the Ether:<BR>&gt;No. Steve has long talked about doing one, but can't think of a title better<BR>&gt;than 'GURPS Furries' or 'Anthros'. Besides, I gave the whole thing some<BR>&gt;thought myself and there's not really enough stuff you can write with<BR>&gt;furries to justify an entire GURPS book (imho, personally I think it'd be<BR>&gt;great to see one). Furry Sci-Fi enthusiats might be interseted in Mhar: The<BR>&gt;Final Frontier, currently in production by the writers of Dela the Hooda.<BR><BR>Welllll...I can think of one rather complete SF setting with a wide range <BR>of humans &amp; furries...<BR>Catoids, Snow Leopardiods, Centaurs, Foxiods, skunkoids, and some others.<BR><BR>I just don't see SJG putting out GURPS:Pendor though.... :-)<BR><BR><BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>urbin@bigfoot.com -- These opinions are mine, no one else wants `em.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; You sound reasonable ... time to up my medication<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; http://www.bigfoot.com/~urbin/<BR>- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:53:47 -0400<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>For those of you that still use the CT/MT character generation I would like<BR>to ask you a few questions.&nbsp; Does anyone know if the Special Duty roll was<BR>created for MT or was it an CT option created by DGP?&nbsp; Do you tend to like<BR>or dislike the advanced character generation systems from Mercenary/High<BR>Guard/Scouts?&nbsp; Has anyone made any personal changes to the CT skill system<BR>that they would like to share?&nbsp; Thanks again for your time...<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti<BR>acoloset@kent.edu<BR><BR><BR>- ---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 12:59:33 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Buttered Cat CG (was:&nbsp; Quantum Computing )<BR><BR>You could also glue two or more cats together along the spinal columns if<BR>you're short of cows to make the butter.&nbsp; This would constitute a multi-pole<BR>alternating cat dynamo (MPACD), vice the more primitve buttered cat dynamo<BR>(BCD).&nbsp; Also, an advantage of MPACD's is that they operate better when<BR>subjected to a microwave fields, say about 10 minutes on high in your<BR>average MW oven.&nbsp; BCD's experience high failure rates due to the inevtiable<BR>breakdown of the butter.<BR><BR>Has anyone conducted BCD experiements using margarine as a feline<BR>dorsal-laminate?<BR><BR><BR>&gt; magnetic field and voila! you have a power source, a little thing I like<BR>to<BR>&gt; refer to as a 'Buttered-cat Dynamo'<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:18 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;000701c03b7f$7b3c2b00$d1317b83@housing.res.kent.edu&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts, especially Anthony.<BR><BR>I leapt with great eagerness on the more detailed character generation <BR>systems made available by 'Mercenary', 'High Guard' and 'Scouts': and <BR>promptly proceeded to do similar things for Merchants and for any other <BR>career I could think of (police, diplomatic service, the clergy...). For <BR>criminals I used a set of tables published in an early copy of the UK <BR>magazine WHITE DWARF (#19 in 1980 if I recall aright!).<BR><BR>I also created additional skills and systems to make going to university a <BR>bit more interesting, and from that came the medical and academic careers. <BR>Then came some 'background' skills - homeworld stuff, and hobby &amp; interest <BR>- - and finally rules for studying during play, correspondence courses and <BR>the like, one way of passing the time in Jump.<BR><BR>Then they published MegaTraveller.... :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3193<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (rly-zb03.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.3]) by air-zb04.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:21:58 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zb03.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:21:34 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id NAA87531;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:20:54 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:19:27 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id NAA87473<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:19:26 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:19:26 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010211719.NAA87473@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3193<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Saturday, October 21 2000&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3194<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: CT/MT careers<BR>Re: Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR>Re: SotA part 2<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>CT/MT careers<BR>Re: SotA part 2<BR>Re: Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR>Re: CT/MT careers<BR>Re: Perry Rhodan<BR>RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR>Re: Starport Announcements (was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition))<BR>Re: Albedo using CT<BR>Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3192<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:34:18 -0400<BR>From: "Dan Lane" &lt;danielrlane@home.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>I think this is an important point.&nbsp; Life on a ship requires some sort of<BR>protective garment.&nbsp; I've many-a-time sliced my shirt sleeves or trousers<BR>instead of the underlying skin.&nbsp; Additionally, present coveralls/uniforms<BR>worn in the USN provide a modicum of flash-burn protection.&nbsp; The guys still<BR>prefer wearing t-shirts and rolled-down coveralls through, since the plants<BR>tends to be rather warm (especially on steam ships in the Gulf in the<BR>mid-summer).<BR><BR>- -Dan Lane<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:42:23 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti writes:<BR>&gt;I must admit that I never played anything involving Traveller past MT so if<BR>&gt;you could please explain to me where I could find information on HEPlaR I<BR>&gt;would greatly appreciate it.&nbsp; I was assuming a standard hydrogen reaction<BR>&gt;mass for propulsion (in fact, before MT that is how I had assumed ships used<BR>&gt;that much fuel...)<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It is worth mentioning that some of us still have hydrogen plasma<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; spewing out the rear at reletivistic speed as a ship accelerates.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Instantaneous Jump would increase communications speed tremendously,<BR>&gt;If I remember correctly there were different points in each system that<BR>&gt;corresponded to different star systems, so unless you were to post a X-boat<BR>&gt;at each Alderson Point you need to travel there yourself to make the jump.<BR>&gt;Adding in the effect of the use of reaction mass and a limited acceleration<BR>&gt;then you may up intersystem travel time in exchange for time "elsewhere"<BR>&gt;(Jumpspace, Hyperspace, etc have always bothered me)<BR>&lt;snipped&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; The "unless" above is the important bit.&nbsp; It would be easy and<BR>relatively<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cheep to keep a small jump-capable ship next to each Alderson Point.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This way, information could be passed along from the Imperial Capitol<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; to the frontier in a few hours rather than many months.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:45:28 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti writes:<BR>&gt;For those of you that still use the CT/MT character generation I would like<BR>&gt;to ask you a few questions.&nbsp; Does anyone know if the Special Duty roll was<BR>&gt;created for MT or was it an CT option created by DGP?&nbsp; Do you tend to like<BR>&gt;or dislike the advanced character generation systems from Mercenary/High<BR>&gt;Guard/Scouts?&nbsp; Has anyone made any personal changes to the CT skill system<BR>&gt;that they would like to share?&nbsp; Thanks again for your time...<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I have not seen MT, but I do favour the "advanced" character generation<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; systems in LBB's (Little Black Books) 4-7.&nbsp; These allow enough<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; variety of characters but maintain character flexibility.&nbsp; Just my<BR>Cr 0.02.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:24:58 -0500<BR>From: D Smart &lt;dsmart@imagin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR><BR>Traveller6571851@aol.com posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In a message dated 10/21/00 5:57:43 AM, Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Jones, Dean posted:<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Dhgkhthoaeoets<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Doug-ka Tho-ay-ets<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; That's easy for *you* to say.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; My favorite name was that of a Droyne scientist.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; "Froudrk" (pronounced "Frow Drick")<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; He kept trying to find a hunchbacked Vargr called<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; "Aygorh" who had a borrowed AI unit to plug into<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; something they were trying to build.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Groan!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; FUROW BLUE-KLA!<BR><BR>And the K'kree laugh from stage left....<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:36:09 -0500<BR>From: D Smart &lt;dsmart@imagin.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: SotA part 2<BR><BR>GDWGAMES@aol.com posted:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Frankly, I think shedding *any* light on the nature of the Ancients<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (including very basic things, like their relationship to the Droyne)<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; was a mistake.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perhaps. But bear in mind it was the single most demanded product GDW had<BR>&gt; produced up to that time -- fans _wanted_ that book in the worst way . . .<BR>&gt; right up until they got it.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Then the reaction was pretty much as you describe -- a big let-down. We<BR>&gt; should have seen it coming, but we didn't. As I said, I dealt with this in a<BR>&gt; JTAS editirial a while back.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; LKW<BR><BR>Not a letdown for this fan! The "Ancients" series<BR>(Twilight's Peak, SotA) <BR>are still my favorites of all time. These two adventures,<BR>plus Research <BR>Station Gamma, led to one *heck* of a campaign with lasted<BR>for 2.5 years <BR>RealTime (from 1104 through the Fifth Frontier War) and<BR>covered the <BR>Spinward Marches, Far Frontiers, Beyond, and Vanguard<BR>Reaches sectors. <BR>Only one PC survived all the way through and he became my<BR>favorite Trav <BR>PC of all time.<BR><BR>Hoowah, what a blast my friends and I had! Some very fond<BR>memories, there.<BR><BR>David<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:38:07 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>"I must admit that I never played anything involving Traveller past MT so<BR>if you could please explain to me where I could find information on HEPlaR<BR>I would greatly appreciate it.&nbsp; I was assuming a standard hydrogen<BR>reaction mass for propulsion (in fact, before MT that is how I had assumed<BR>ships used that much fuel...) "<BR><BR>HEPlaR was the standard thruster technolgoy in Traveller: The New Era.&nbsp; It<BR>stands for High Efficiency PLAsma Rocket.&nbsp; Some people love it, because<BR>it's closer to realistic tech (although that statement will raise some<BR>debate, I'll bet) and some people dislike it because it was not in line<BR>with previous Traveller versions (T:TNE was very different from CT/MT/T4,<BR>BTW).&nbsp; You can find out more about it in Fire, Fusion and Steel, the<BR>technology book for T:TNE (or FFS2, which is the same thing for T4). The<BR>basic idea was that you dumped some hydrogen in a reactor until it became<BR>a plasma and then let it rocket out the back.<BR><BR>"If I remember correctly there were different points in each system that<BR>corresponded to different star systems, so unless you were to post a<BR>X-boat at each Alderson Point you need to travel there yourself to make<BR>the jump.&nbsp; Adding in the effect of the use of reaction mass and a limited<BR>acceleration then you may up intersystem travel time in exchange for time<BR>"elsewhere"&nbsp; (Jumpspace, Hyperspace, etc have always bothered me) "<BR><BR>But given the extreme benefits of rapid communications to an empire, I<BR>think they would post a ship at each Alderson point.&nbsp; Every time an<BR>Xboat comes into the system, it lasers or radios info to the others<BR>waiting at the jump points and then they pop through and send their<BR>messages before popping back to wait for the next batch.&nbsp; I can't really<BR>see any reason not to do this.&nbsp; There would be some cost involved, but it<BR>would be more than outweighed by the benefits (IMO). <BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:43:19 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Most of the cannons I design are TL2 to TL4, with the occasional foray<BR>to higher tech levels, including the TL13 ETC jobby I'm designing for<BR>inclusion in the cargo compartment of the Broadsword.<BR><BR>What's that?&nbsp; Canon with one "n?"&nbsp; Well, that's an entirely different<BR>kettle of fish!<BR><BR>I'll go back to my corner, now.<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:45:44 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>"tend to like or dislike the advanced character generation systems from<BR>Mercenary/High Guard/Scouts?&nbsp; Has anyone made any personal changes to the<BR>CT skill system that they would like to share?&nbsp; Thanks again for your<BR>time... " <BR><BR>Personally, I never went for the advanced char gen rules. Reasons:<BR>1. Too many skills.&nbsp; One character I rolled got Pilot-7 along with oodles<BR>of other things.&nbsp; All characters seemed to end up with dozens of level-1<BR>skills.<BR><BR>2. Too much time.&nbsp; Yes I know the advanced chargen rules are still<BR>lightning compared to many RPG systems, but I love the basic systems for<BR>the fact that characters take 10 minutes to roll up.<BR><BR>3. Not enough careers.&nbsp; I would have gone for the advanced rules if there<BR>had been versions for all the careers found in say "Citizens of the<BR>Imperium", but there weren't.&nbsp; And you can't mix them because the advanced<BR>chargen makes much more powerful characters.<BR><BR>As for making changes to the CT skills system, I tweaked them alot.&nbsp; My<BR>changes ended up being very similar to MT when it came out though.&nbsp; I find<BR>the basic CT chargen system too stingy with skills.&nbsp; The MT system is just<BR>about right for me.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 13:59:41 -0700<BR>From: "Kelly St.Clair" &lt;kellys@efn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: SotA part 2<BR><BR>On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:38:36 EDT, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Frankly, I think shedding *any* light on the nature of the Ancients<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (including very basic things, like their relationship to the Droyne)<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; was a mistake.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Perhaps. But bear in mind it was the single most demanded product GDW had<BR>&gt;produced up to that time -- fans _wanted_ that book in the worst way . . .<BR>&gt;right up until they got it.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Then the reaction was pretty much as you describe -- a big let-down. We<BR>&gt;should have seen it coming, but we didn't. As I said, I dealt with this in a<BR>&gt;JTAS editirial a while back.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;LKW<BR><BR>&lt;dilbert&gt;<BR>"It's exactly what we asked for, but it's not what we want."<BR>&lt;/dilbert&gt;<BR><BR>Some things don't change - call it part of human nature.&nbsp; See the reaction <BR>to the first new STAR WARS movie in decades (especially the difference <BR>between the trailers and the movie itself).<BR><BR>Sometimes I think even the literal Second Coming would have its critics... <BR>not flashy enough, no Rapture, Jesus is supposed to be white and not some <BR>raghead, etc.&nbsp; ;)<BR><BR><BR>- --------------<BR>Kelly St.Clair&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Homines est! Dici omnes! Soylens viridis HOMINES EST!"<BR>kellys@efn.org<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:01:28 EDT<BR>From: Traveller6571851@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Speaking of speaking (Was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating)<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/21/00 3:25:40 PM, dsmart@imagin.net writes:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; Jones, Dean posted:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; Dhgkhthoaeoets<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Doug-ka Tho-ay-ets<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; That's easy for *you* to say.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; My favorite name was that of a Droyne scientist.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; "Froudrk" (pronounced "Frow Drick")<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; He kept trying to find a hunchbacked Vargr called<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; "Aygorh" who had a borrowed AI unit to plug into<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;&gt; something they were trying to build.<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Groan!<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; FUROW BLUE-KLA!<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;And the K'kree laugh from stage left....<BR><BR>Gee, would that make her "Grandfather's" ... GIRLFRIEND! [Dramatic musical <BR>chord]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:06:05 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; For those of you that still use the CT/MT character generation I would like<BR>&gt; to ask you a few questions.&nbsp; Does anyone know if the Special Duty roll was<BR>&gt; created for MT or was it an CT option created by DGP?&nbsp; Do you tend to like<BR>&gt; or dislike the advanced character generation systems from Mercenary/High<BR>&gt; Guard/Scouts?&nbsp; Has anyone made any personal changes to the CT skill system<BR>&gt; that they would like to share?&nbsp; Thanks again for your time...<BR><BR>I liked the ACS until I discovered that it was totally incompatable with the<BR>basic system. In the end, I gave all characters one extra skill per term of<BR>service (this was automatic, unlike in MT). For CT, I also had a "pre-career"<BR>generation where characters could gain up to four skills based on background.<BR>Lastly, unless the character was drafted, the player got to roll twice on the<BR>selected skill table and take his pick of the two skills (if both were the<BR>same, oh well ...). I also let the players select each table one at a time:<BR>pick table, roll, pick table, roll, ... I mention this since I think the player<BR>was supposed to allocate all their rolls before making them. The highest skill<BR>a PC ever got was Electronics-5 (I think there was a Pilot-4 also).<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR>GURPS Traveller starships available throught GURPS vehicles page link<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:37:12 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Perry Rhodan<BR><BR>At 22:25 20.10.00 -0800, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;Are you sure he was involved with *publishing* them? As opposed to<BR>&gt;merely *selling* very good to mint condition "used" copies?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;You see, Ace books printed something like 200 "volumes" of the series<BR>&gt;about 20-25 years back. And they do still get sold at cons.<BR><BR><BR>AFAIK there was an attempt to relaunch Rhodan in the US about four years <BR>ago, but i dont know if any issues beyond the first (1800) were published. <BR>This relaunch attempt was to be in the original german issue format, by <BR>Forrest J Ackerman, who also did the first edition.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 00:50:18 +0200<BR>From: "Volker 'V.A.G' Greimann" &lt;volker@greimann.de&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?<BR><BR>&gt;An addition to the "dreck that will survive" list:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;"Operation Stardust" (I think that was the title). It's a German movie<BR>&gt;about the first expedition to the moon discovering high TL humanoid<BR>&gt;aliens there.<BR><BR>Original Title: Perry Rhodan: S.O.S in Space<BR>In fact, an italian production, produced after the movie rights were sold, <BR>with no further involvement of the original authors. So the similarities to <BR>PR are superficial at best. I still like to watch it with friends to get a <BR>good laugh now and then.<BR><BR>&gt;It's based on the first book in the Perry Rhodan series. Which was<BR>&gt;(is?) a *major* (so-so) SF phenomenon in Germany in the 60s &amp; 70s. I<BR>&gt;don't know how it's doing now. But at its height the *team* of writers<BR>&gt;was producing something like two novels a *week*.<BR><BR>Nope, never did that, at least not in the main series. It has been going on <BR>since the early 60s one issue a week continuously. There once was a <BR>sister-series "Atlan", which folded after issue 850, a paperback series of <BR>about 300 issues, published once a month, currently on hiatus, and the <BR>Hardcover edition (essentially a revised reedition of the main series) of <BR>70 books, published once every 3 months.<BR><BR>&gt;But given the basic plotline: Humans meet decadent aliens, humans<BR>&gt;unite against them, humans conquer alien empire, and go on to spread<BR>&gt;the "right" culture across the stars; I expect that the books (and the<BR>&gt;movie) would enjoy a resurgence of popularity after the conquest of the<BR>&gt;Vilani. And the Solomani have probably revived them yet again.<BR><BR>Not quite again. The movie never goes beyond uniting the earth, the series <BR>goes on to explore the galaxy, the logal group of galaxies, the universe, <BR>and more.<BR><BR>&gt;It wouldn't be that hard to "revise" them a bit to be closer to Trav<BR>&gt;tech, and to Trav history.<BR><BR>Not indeed. This is always how i imagined the Terrans DID get their first <BR>FTL-drive in Traveller.<BR><BR>&gt;BTW, Loren? It occurs to me that if Perry Rhodan still enjoys any sort<BR>&gt;of popularity in Germany, a GURPS: Perry Rhodan might sell well there.<BR><BR>There has been a german Traveller RPG 5-10 years ago, but the company seems <BR>to be defunct by now. As for a GURPS supplement, one should probably talk <BR>to the company that published PR and to the German publishers of GURPS, <BR>Pegasus Press, first.<BR><BR>&gt;And it's different enough from most US SF, while still being "super<BR>&gt;science space opera" that some of the US fans who bought the US<BR>&gt;editions of the book (again, back in the 70s) might buy a few copies<BR>&gt;also.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:22:56 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Removing gravitic technology would have some effects on starship<BR>&gt;&gt; design.&nbsp; HEPlaR would become the standard thrust agency for starships<BR>&gt;&gt; (as per TNE).<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I must admit that I never played anything involving Traveller past MT so if<BR>&gt; you could please explain to me where I could find information on HEPlaR I<BR>&gt; would greatly appreciate it.&nbsp; I was assuming a standard hydrogen reaction<BR>&gt; mass for propulsion (in fact, before MT that is how I had assumed ships used<BR>&gt; that much fuel...)<BR><BR>HEPLar is a *too* efficient reaction drive. It appears to require<BR>partial fusion to avoid violating conservation of energy.<BR><BR>Back in the old CT days, I just assumed Fusion rockets with an Isp of<BR>600,000. I got that value from an *old* chart of different real and<BR>theoretical propulsion types that NASA had sent out to schools.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; Instantaneous Jump would increase communications speed tremendously,<BR>&gt;&gt; even under the limitations of the Alderson Drive from MiGE.&nbsp; After all,<BR>&gt;&gt; with relay ships (similar to x-boats) waiting at Alderson Points,<BR>&gt;&gt; messages could travel within system at lightspeed, and between systems<BR>&gt;&gt; nearly instantly.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; If I remember correctly there were different points in each system that<BR>&gt; corresponded to different star systems, so unless you were to post a X-boat<BR>&gt; at each Alderson Point you need to travel there yourself to make the jump.<BR>&gt; Adding in the effect of the use of reaction mass and a limited acceleration<BR>&gt; then you may up intersystem travel time in exchange for time "elsewhere"<BR>&gt; (Jumpspace, Hyperspace, etc have always bothered me)<BR><BR>You *do* post an x-boat "station" at each Alderson point. Much like in<BR>Bujold's Miles Vorkosogan stories.<BR><BR>But the in system lag time isn't the normal space transit time. It's<BR>the speed of light transit time between them. You don't *carry* the<BR>messages between them (at least not the urgent ones). You use a tight<BR>beam (laser, maser, whatever) link to transmit them from the just<BR>arrived about to the station which beams them to the other station(s)<BR>which load them into X-boats that are ready to jump.<BR><BR>Lower priority mail gets downloaded over a multi-fiber fiber optic<BR>link, as that will have thousands (maybe millions!) of times the<BR>bandwidth of any *possible* long range wireless link.<BR><BR>Then that data *will* be physically carried across the system.<BR><BR>Sort of like the difference between airmail and surface mail between<BR>the US and Australia.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:43:49 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; From: Leonard Erickson &lt;shadow@krypton.rain.com&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;"Anthony Rogers, the Han consul is waiting for you in courtesy lounge 4"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; One question, would that be the Good (First) Season of "Buck Rodgers",<BR>&gt; or the crappy second season?&nbsp; I am of course refering to the one with Gil<BR>&gt; Gerard.<BR><BR>Neither. The bit about the "Han consul" makes it the book ("Armageddon:<BR>2419 AD" by Phillip Nowlan(?)) or maybe the comic strip.<BR><BR>BTW, one episode of the TV series had Buck going thru an airport<BR>(spaceport?) in what used to be New Orleans and there was a background<BR>voiceover "Captain Christopher Pike please report to..."<BR><BR>I recall another "in joke" reference in the episode with the "rock<BR>group" on the space station. They said something about "10-point<BR>steel". Which any good fan knows is from A.E. van Vogt's "Slan".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:52:35 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 04:49 PM 10/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Anybody have any suggestions for an "X-boat 'pilot'" uniform?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why bother?&nbsp; When I<BR>&gt; had to get dressed, basic coveralls with the Communications Branch logo<BR>&gt; would be appropriate.<BR><BR>Well, obviously, if I'm at a con, I'm not in the X-boat. :-)<BR><BR>And from your comment, I take you're a "casual nudist" at home?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:55:17 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt;&gt; From: Douglas E. Berry [mailto:gridlore@pop.mindspring.com]<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Anybody have any suggestions for an "X-boat 'pilot'" uniform?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why <BR>&gt;&gt; bother?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Because vinyl chafes me so?&nbsp; I think a modicum of protection from sticking<BR>&gt; to the seat, scraping yourself on the control panel, etc would be warranted.<BR>&gt; A light coverall, or even just a t-shirt and shorts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Besides, it makes clean up of the X-boat so much easier.<BR><BR>I tend to be rather lightly dressed at home. Shorts and t-shirt much of<BR>the time. The shorts deal with the seat &amp; cleanup problems.<BR><BR>But there are times when I wish I *was* wearing jeans. Like every time<BR>one of the pieces of equipment waiting to be worked on takes a chunk<BR>out of my leg...<BR><BR>On the other hand, I doubt that an x-boat would have exposed corners,<BR>much less *sharp* ones.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:01:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Furries (was:Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating )<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; IMO it's the Klingons that are the weirdest. I mean, learning a language and<BR>&gt; going on a voluntary Boot Camp, and looking ugly but getting no kewl<BR>&gt; powers...<BR><BR>You don't call Intimidation+5 a "kewl power"? :-)<BR><BR>BTW, Klingons were running around in organized groups *long* before the<BR>language was created. <BR><BR>The Klingon Diplomatic Corp was a common sight at cons from the 70s<BR>onward. So were the Dorsai (Very) Irregulars, and the SCA's Dark Horde<BR>(Mongols). Oddly, you rarely saw them at the same con. Probably because<BR>of the *large* overlap in membership.<BR><BR>I recall a cartoon from the early 70s. It had some Secret Service<BR>agents in the foreground, with one saying "I sent Smith and Jones up to<BR>clear those sci-fi fans out of the Presidential suite.."<BR><BR>In the background, there's a large, upset looking Klingon coming down a<BR>stairway with what are obviously Smith &amp; Jones tucked under his arms...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:10:03 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Starport Announcements (was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition))<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I would be happy to help in this.&nbsp; I have an old album (yes - an LP) from <BR>&gt; the evil Disney people that has a veritable plethora of sounds, etc - <BR>&gt; including some 'alien language' snippets that would be great for this.<BR><BR>I trust you've already converted *all* of it to a set of WAV files or<BR>the like?<BR><BR>BTW, with uncompressed WAV files and a few other "raw data" format's<BR>you can create interesting effects simply by reversing the file. That<BR>is start with the *last* byte (or byte pair, if it's a 16-bit file),<BR>copy that as the first byte of a new file, and then proceed backwards<BR>thru the file.<BR><BR>This gives you a time-reversed version of the sound (ie, what you'de<BR>get by playing the record or tape backwards). This can create some<BR>interesting "alien languages".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:24:53 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; releases into the Ether:<BR>&gt;&gt;No. Steve has long talked about doing one, but can't think of a title better<BR>&gt;&gt;than 'GURPS Furries' or 'Anthros'. Besides, I gave the whole thing some<BR>&gt;&gt;thought myself and there's not really enough stuff you can write with<BR>&gt;&gt;furries to justify an entire GURPS book (imho, personally I think it'd be<BR>&gt;&gt;great to see one). Furry Sci-Fi enthusiats might be interseted in Mhar: The<BR>&gt;&gt;Final Frontier, currently in production by the writers of Dela the Hooda.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Welllll...I can think of one rather complete SF setting with a wide range <BR>&gt; of humans &amp; furries...<BR>&gt; Catoids, Snow Leopardiods, Centaurs, Foxiods, skunkoids, and some others.<BR><BR>And it also has neat stuff like powered armor and (small) mecha!<BR><BR>&gt; I just don't see SJG putting out GURPS:Pendor though.... :-)<BR><BR>Well, maybe if they are willing to market it through adult comic<BR>distributors.. <BR><BR>Seriously, the biggest problem is likely to be copyrights...<BR><BR>Hmmm... Pendor meets Albedo?<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 15:27:44 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #3192<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;Leonard Erickson&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; 2. Ship combat becomes a very different beast.&nbsp; Acheiving lots ofthrust<BR>&gt;&gt; without the magical thruster plates turns out to be quite difficult.&nbsp; In<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; With fusion rockets, you can get so rather high performance figures<BR>&gt; without&nbsp; getting into insanity like HEPlaR.<BR>&gt; &lt;/LE&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Well, I'm not versed enough in the technical matters to argue the point<BR>&gt; myself, but I've heard others on the list argue otherwise, that fusion<BR>&gt; rockets, while having high ISPs would not produce more than 10s of G-hours<BR>&gt; of thrust. This leads to very different space combat feel.<BR><BR>It depends on the Isp you assign to them. I grew up with classrooms<BR>having this NASA chart on present and future propulsion systems that<BR>listed fusion rockets at an Isp of 600,000.<BR><BR>That means a 100 ton *mass* ship at 6g would be using 1 *kilogram* of<BR>fuel per second. Or 3.6 tons per hour. <BR><BR>So yeah, it can only boost for a day or so. Still, that's a lot better<BR>than most. <BR><BR>&gt; &lt;LE&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; 3. W/o inertial compensation, ship accel is probably limited to 3 or 4 g. <BR>&gt;&gt; It's hard to say what the exact limit is.&nbsp; We know that humans can take a<BR>&gt;&gt; lot more than that for short periods, but no data exists for withstanding<BR>&gt;&gt; multiple gee-forces for more than a few minutes.&nbsp; Space combat typically<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Actually such data *does* exist. From centrifuge experiments. As I<BR>&gt; recall, the data says 3-4 g "indefinitely".<BR>&gt; &lt;/LE&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I'd check that source again.&nbsp; I strongly suspect that they mean<BR>&gt; "indefinately"&nbsp; as in "more seconds than you would ever hold a turn in a<BR>&gt; fighter plane for".&nbsp; I doubt they tested for more than a couple of<BR>&gt; minutes. If I'm wrong, I'd really like to see the references, but my<BR>&gt; understanding is that no one's been tested in a single high-gee centrifuge<BR>&gt; run lasting more than a few minutes.<BR><BR>Remember, fighter pilots and astronauts experience g-loads in<BR>*different* directions. Pilots in the "head to feet" direction,<BR>astronauts in the "chest to back" direction. <BR><BR>This means that the astronauts can endure a *lot* more acceleration.<BR>And for longer periods. <BR><BR>A quote from a post by the list's resident doctor:<BR><BR>&gt; Acceleration is much better tolerated if it is in the lateral<BR>&gt; (side to side) or transverse (chest to back/back to chest)<BR>&gt; directions.&nbsp; 11g back-to-chest can be tolerated for 3 minutes, 17g<BR>&gt; chest-to-back for 4 minutes - the 'muscle control limit'.<BR><BR>This is already *far* above the levels you are talking about.<BR><BR>And from later in the post:<BR><BR>&gt; Source: US Army Field Manual 1-301, Aeromedical Training for Flight<BR>&gt; Personnel, May 1987 (courtesy Christopher Thrash).<BR><BR>From another post, using NASA experimental data:<BR><BR>&gt; I recently dug out an article from _The Foundation Point_ VolI, Issue<BR>&gt; 1, by Eric Lee where he lists data from _The Bioastronautics Book_<BR>&gt; from Nasa that used various human and animal test data on g-stress as<BR>&gt; well as data gathered from high-speed accidents where g-force was<BR>&gt; extrapolated. The first table I will reproduce is for sustained<BR>&gt; acceleration (more than 30 seconds, but LESS THAN 15 minutes!)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Tolerance for subjects<BR>&gt; Time&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Accel couch&lt;Gs&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; G-Tank&lt;Gs&gt;<BR>&gt; (in min)<BR>&gt; .5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 28<BR>&gt; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 22<BR>&gt; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 17<BR>&gt; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14<BR>&gt; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 12<BR>&gt; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 9<BR>&gt; 6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 8<BR>&gt; 7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 7<BR>&gt; 8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6<BR>&gt; 9+&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 6<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; at longer periods extreme pain/fatigue resulted. At higher Gs pain,<BR>&gt; difficulty breathing, etc. were reported. Above 6 Gs breathing was<BR>&gt; difficult and NO arm/leg movement was possible above 7Gs<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; The second chart is for short period (&lt;6 seconds) acceleration<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Accel time &nbsp; &nbsp; Safe&nbsp; &nbsp; Moderate injury&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Severe/lethal injury<BR>&gt; (in seconds)&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;Gs&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Gs&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;Gs&gt;<BR>&gt; .005&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;45&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 45-160&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;160<BR>&gt; .01&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;45&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 45-100&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;100<BR>&gt; .02&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;40&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 45-70&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;70<BR>&gt; .05&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;40&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 40-45&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;45<BR>&gt; .1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;40&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 40-42&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;42<BR>&gt; .5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 18-26&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;26<BR>&gt; 1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 14-31&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;31<BR>&gt; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 13-23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;23<BR>&gt; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 12-26&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &gt;26<BR><BR>A later section says that 250+ g is not survivable at any duration.<BR><BR>And I've seen other stuff that agrees that 3g is possible for *long*<BR>periods. You wouldn't enjoy it, but you'd survive it uninjured.<BR><BR>Just for the hell of it, here's that last table redone to show the<BR>maximum *distance* you can travel at the gees and time listed:<BR><BR>Accel time&nbsp; Safe&nbsp;&nbsp; distance&nbsp; &nbsp; Moderate injury<BR>(seconds)&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Gs&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;m&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;Gs&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;m&gt;<BR>0.005&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;45&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0.005625&nbsp;&nbsp; 160&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0.002<BR>0.01&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;45&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0.0225&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 100&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0.05<BR>0.02&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;40&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 0.08&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 70&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0.14<BR>0.05&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;40&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0.5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 45&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0.5625<BR>0.1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;40&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 42&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 2.1<BR>0.5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 22.5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 26&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 32.5<BR>1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 70&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 31&nbsp; &nbsp; 155<BR>2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 260&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 23&nbsp; &nbsp; 460<BR>5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;12&nbsp; &nbsp; 1500&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 26&nbsp;&nbsp; 3250<BR><BR>Good grief!<BR><BR>It looks like we can make *survivable* fighters if they can do "jinks"<BR>at 20-30 gees every once in a while.<BR><BR>&gt; &lt;LE&gt;<BR>&gt; message stream. For *really* urgent stuff, that could be a couple of<BR>&gt; minutes of comm lag &amp; transmission. <BR>&gt; &lt;/LE&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I was thinking in terms of MiGE: The jump-points could be a few<BR>&gt; light-hours apart.&nbsp; Over the number of jumps required that could add up to<BR>&gt; days or weeks.<BR><BR>Whereas in Traveller, the departing ship is going to be light *seconds*<BR>away from the arriving one.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3194<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (rly-ye04.mail.aol.com [172.18.151.201]) by air-ye02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:16:23 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-ye04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:15:51 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id TAA09335;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:15:00 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:13:20 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id TAA08880<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:13:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:13:20 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010212313.TAA08880@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3194<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sunday, October 22 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3195<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Jump Time<BR>Re: Albedo using CT<BR>Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: CT/MT careers<BR>Ah, fame and glory!<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR>Re: Animation (was Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: CT/MT careers<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Buttered Cat CG (was:&nbsp; Quantum Computing )<BR>Re: Milieu 0<BR>Re: Secret of the Ancients<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Albedo using CT<BR>RE: Uniforms<BR>RE: Albedo using CT<BR>RE: Albedo using CT<BR>RE: Starport Announcements (was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating&nbsp; (was Re: New FAQ addition))<BR>RE: Ah, fame and glory!<BR>RE: Dulinors Motivations<BR>RE: Miles Vorkosigan (was: Question about canon technology)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:09:07 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Jump Time<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; I do seem to remember that there was also a limited jump route table <BR>&gt; for each world in an early printing of CT (I think Leonard mentioned <BR>&gt; it?).<BR><BR>First edition CT. But it's for trade/x-boat type routes. Not for *all*<BR>jumps.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:28:03 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&lt;&lt;snip&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I just don't see SJG putting out GURPS:Pendor though.... :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, maybe if they are willing to market it through adult comic<BR>&gt; distributors..<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Seriously, the biggest problem is likely to be copyrights...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hmmm... Pendor meets Albedo?<BR><BR>GURPS: Libido? ;-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:17:33 EDT<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Cylon Invasion (was: On To The Far Future (Long))<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/20/00 3:37:08 PM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>gridlore@pop.mindspring.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; ctually, SciFi has gotten much better in the last year or two.&nbsp; B5 in<BR>letterbox, good original series, and less reliance on bad SF from the 70s. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>yeah but I do miss "UFO"...:-(<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:21:54 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt;From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt;Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR>&gt;Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 14:22:56 PST<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; Removing gravitic technology would have some effects on starship<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; design.&nbsp; HEPlaR would become the standard thrust agency for starships<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; (as per TNE).<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I must admit that I never played anything involving Traveller past MT so <BR>&gt;if<BR>&gt; &gt; you could please explain to me where I could find information on HEPlaR <BR>&gt;I<BR>&gt; &gt; would greatly appreciate it.&nbsp; I was assuming a standard hydrogen <BR>&gt;reaction<BR>&gt; &gt; mass for propulsion (in fact, before MT that is how I had assumed ships <BR>&gt;used<BR>&gt; &gt; that much fuel...)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;HEPLar is a *too* efficient reaction drive. It appears to require<BR>&gt;partial fusion to avoid violating conservation of energy.<BR><BR>Point 1: Maybe it fuses the atoms and then splits them again. Would this <BR>produce even more power than simply fission/fusion?<BR><BR>Point 2: This is Science Fiction. Technology doesn't _have_ to be strictly <BR>according to current science. Thrust-Plates, Artificial Gravity, the Jump <BR>Drive - none of them are possible with current or foreseeable technology.<BR><BR>Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless" drive be <BR>termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour the <BR>action of propulsion?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 17:35:29 -0700<BR>From: Bill &lt;beast@aracnet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>&gt;For those of you that still use the CT/MT character generation I would like<BR>&gt;to ask you a few questions.&nbsp; Does anyone know if the Special Duty roll was<BR>&gt;created for MT or was it an CT option created by DGP?&nbsp; Do you tend to like<BR>&gt;or dislike the advanced character generation systems from Mercenary/High<BR>&gt;Guard/Scouts?&nbsp; Has anyone made any personal changes to the CT skill system<BR>&gt;that they would like to share?&nbsp; Thanks again for your time...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Anthony Colosetti<BR>&gt;acoloset@kent.edu<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;---<BR>&gt;Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>&gt;Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>&gt;Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR><BR>I was never a fan of the randomness of obtaining skills in either CT <BR>or MT. I allowed the players (when I was still GM) to collect points. <BR>1 point for every successful skill roll.<BR>Keeping track of things like Command or Staff (for officers). I <BR>allowed the players to spend the skill point to obtains skills that <BR>they wanted their characters to have. I would normally put a cap on <BR>the highest skill level they could achieve though. Usually 4 or 5.<BR><BR>So if a character spent 4 terms in the navy they would have a <BR>potential max skill points of 16 if they were an officer and had 3 <BR>command assignments then they were required to spend three of those <BR>point on command skills etc...They were of course required to spend <BR>at least some of their skill points on their MOS table. What good is <BR>it to have a gunner that can't fire a turret weapon.<BR><BR>The players got characters that they enjoyed more, and had to work <BR>together more often because there weren't as many skills shared among <BR>the group.<BR><BR>I do like the way that the expanded character generation develops a <BR>little back ground history for characters. It's always helped me <BR>determine what kind of personality my characters have had.<BR><BR>I'm not sure that I completely like the way that MT has cascaded skills though.<BR><BR>Bill<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:43:24 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Ah, fame and glory!<BR><BR>Finally some recognition for my hours of pointless web wandering!&nbsp; My<BR>suggestion for "Illuminated Site of the Week" was chosen my SJGames this<BR>week.&nbsp; I'm so proud! (Uh...can we say "nerdboy"? :-)<BR><BR>sjgames.com/ill/<BR><BR>It's about a locust-controlled robot vehicle, so it's gotta be at least as<BR>Trav-related as some of the other stuff flying around here, right?<BR>Canadians will be especially happy to review how their tax dollars are<BR>being spent to further science!<BR><BR>Have a good one,<BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 18:43:28<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>At 02:52 PM 10/21/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;Well, obviously, if I'm at a con, I'm not in the X-boat. :-)<BR><BR>BayCon 2002 party theme: "Life in an X-boat"<BR><BR>&gt;And from your comment, I take you're a "casual nudist" at home?<BR><BR>Well, in the day before roommates, yes.&nbsp; Why bother?&nbsp; No rain, temperture<BR>controlled.. might as well stay naked.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:44:00 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Dulinors Motivations<BR><BR>&gt; From: Gerry Harris <BR>&gt; Dulinor was a Democrat?<BR><BR>Reform Party, actually.&nbsp; A cross between Ross Perot and Jesse Ventura.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:56:48 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Animation (was Re: 2-D Movies That Survived the Long Night?)<BR><BR>&gt; From: Richard Wilson <BR>&gt; In the Rebellion source book, they mention a highly charismatic <BR>&gt; Vargr&nbsp; named Oekhsos who is a music star whose music sometimes carries a <BR>&gt; political message. The big secret is that he doesn't exist. He is <BR>&gt; completely computer generated. The tech level for most of the Vargr ship <BR>&gt; designs I've seen run around 11-12.<BR><BR>Oekhsos was created by a company based on Lair, which is a TL15 world.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Oekhsos is a good hook for getting a bunch of PCs to go to Lair. <BR>Unfortunately it's quite a long way into the Extents, so you have to be<BR>prepared to run quite a long series of Vargr-related encounters, or else<BR>pass over the best part of a year without incident.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:03:26 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; Don't forget the very real possibility that another organization of<BR>&gt; time travellers will exist with a vested interest in <BR>&gt; de-integrating the<BR>&gt; time line. Or at least integrating to a different time line than the<BR>&gt; PC organization. There could conceivably be a number of different<BR>&gt; groups each intent on preserving a different version of reality.<BR><BR>It sounds like the TML converted into a game setting.&nbsp; Oh dear.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:09:59 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>&gt; From: Megan Robertson<BR>&gt; Hmm - X-Boat Pilot uniform... how about a set of coveralls (or "driver's <BR>&gt; uniform" pants and jacket - like the brown stuff UPS men wear) in perhaps<BR>&gt; grey... then add a few patches and 'X-Boat Service' stencilled across the<BR>&gt; back. Wear a bright coloured turtle- or polo-neck shirt underneath, and <BR>&gt; combat boots/DMs, NOT polished. Look reasonably scruffy, coveralls <BR>&gt; crumpled, don't brush your hair, roll the sleeves up, etc.<BR><BR>Dressing gown and slippers.&nbsp; Kind of like you haven't got out of bed for<BR>the last week.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Contact and Liasion scouts:&nbsp; think Apocalypse Now.&nbsp; You've been 'in<BR>country' for years, and have gone a little bit headhunter...&nbsp; <BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:20:34 +1000<BR>From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; From: Ian Ferguson <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; It is worth mentioning that some of us still have hydrogen plasma<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; spewing out the rear at reletivistic speed as a ship accelerates.<BR><BR>It is probably not worth mentioning that my brain chose to read the passage<BR>above completely out of context.<BR><BR>Space flight would scare me too.<BR><BR>Alan Bradley<BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:36:06 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; "tend to like or dislike the advanced character generation systems from<BR>&gt; Mercenary/High Guard/Scouts?&nbsp; Has anyone made any personal changes to the<BR>&gt; CT skill system that they would like to share?&nbsp; Thanks again for your<BR>&gt; time... " <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Personally, I never went for the advanced char gen rules. Reasons:<BR>&gt; 1. Too many skills.&nbsp; One character I rolled got Pilot-7 along with oodles<BR>&gt; of other things.&nbsp; All characters seemed to end up with dozens of level-1<BR>&gt; skills.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; 2. Too much time.&nbsp; Yes I know the advanced chargen rules are still<BR>&gt; lightning compared to many RPG systems, but I love the basic systems for<BR>&gt; the fact that characters take 10 minutes to roll up.<BR><BR>Which is why I wrote some programs (in BASIC for the TRS-80) to<BR>automate most of it.<BR><BR>The program rolled the dice, let you try to enlist, and if you failed<BR>to enlist, rolled for what you got drafted into. All automatic except<BR>for points where the player had to make a decision. It took a couple of<BR>minutes, max.<BR><BR>One of these days, I'll get those disks located and translate the<BR>programs.<BR><BR>&gt; 3. Not enough careers.&nbsp; I would have gone for the advanced rules if there<BR>&gt; had been versions for all the careers found in say "Citizens of the<BR>&gt; Imperium", but there weren't.&nbsp; And you can't mix them because the advanced<BR>&gt; chargen makes much more powerful characters.<BR><BR>Well, there *were* advanced rules for the "standard" professions.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:17:25 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>On 10/21/00 at 07:37 AM,&nbsp; "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;At 04:49 PM 10/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Anybody have any suggestions for an "X-boat 'pilot'" uniform?<BR><BR>&gt;To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why bother? <BR>&gt;When I had to get dressed, basic coveralls with the Communications<BR>&gt;Branch logo would be appropriate.<BR><BR>Is that the "naked truth", Doug? &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Getting dressed for an X-boat operator would probably be something like a kilt over the skintight vacc suit that spacers wear 24/7.<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:30:55 -0500<BR>From: Brandon Cope &lt;copeab@elc.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; From: Ian Ferguson<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; It is worth mentioning that some of us still have hydrogen plasma<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; spewing out the rear at reletivistic speed as a ship accelerates.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is probably not worth mentioning that my brain chose to read the passage<BR>&gt; above completely out of context.<BR><BR>I'm glad I'm not the only one who took it in a somewhat different way (I also<BR>recently rewatched the South Park episode where Cartman was abducted by aliens,<BR>so that may have influenced me as well ...)<BR><BR>A generous and sadistic GM,<BR>Brandon Cope<BR><BR>http://www.geocities.com/copeab<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 22:12:04 -0500<BR>From: Richard Wilson &lt;rtwilson@rollanet.org&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Buttered Cat CG (was:&nbsp; Quantum Computing )<BR><BR>At 11:59 AM 10/21/00, you wrote:<BR>&gt;You could also glue two or more cats together along the spinal columns if<BR>&gt;you're short of cows to make the butter.&nbsp; This would constitute a multi-pole<BR>&gt;alternating cat dynamo (MPACD), vice the more primitve buttered cat dynamo<BR>&gt;(BCD).&nbsp; Also, an advantage of MPACD's is that they operate better when<BR>&gt;subjected to a microwave fields, say about 10 minutes on high in your<BR>&gt;average MW oven.&nbsp; BCD's experience high failure rates due to the inevtiable<BR>&gt;breakdown of the butter.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Has anyone conducted BCD experiements using margarine as a feline<BR>&gt;dorsal-laminate?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; magnetic field and voila! you have a power source, a little thing I like<BR>&gt;to<BR>&gt; &gt; refer to as a 'Buttered-cat Dynamo'<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Dean<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Clif Clavon mode - on&lt;&lt;&lt;<BR><BR>The Buttered-cat dynamo has a design flaw. If one end of your iron shaft is <BR>attached to the generator, and the cat(s) are attached to the pole, then <BR>the cat(s) will stop spinning since they are no longer falling. Remember <BR>the contra-grav affect only shows up in response to movement in a gravity <BR>field. The cat is attached to a supported object and no longer moving.<BR><BR>OTOH, If the iron shaft runs through the generator without touching it, the <BR>iron shaft will fall, since the CG effect from a buttered cat set-up isn't <BR>strong enough to lift the cat, the toast, and the bar.<BR><BR>Tragically, the buttered cat phenomena is another of those interesting <BR>anomalies that we can not yet extract useful energy.<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Clif Clavon mode - off&lt;&lt;&lt;<BR><BR><BR><BR>Richard Wilson<BR><BR>rtwilson@rollanet.org<BR><BR>========================================================================<BR>Humanity is not something we should aspire to. It is something we should<BR>strive to overcome.<BR>========================================================================<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:32:16 EDT<BR>From: CardSharks@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Milieu 0<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/21/2000 9:33:28 AM Central Daylight Time, <BR>Traveller6571851@aol.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; What does the little "." after many of the world names<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; &gt; mean? I need to know!<BR><BR>It has to do with world name changes over time. Without a reference in front <BR>of me, I can't be more specific. <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:53:20 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Secret of the Ancients<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:35:34 EDT<BR>&gt; From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Secret of the Ancients<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Reference to my JTAS editorial on this same topic several months ago.<BR><BR>Fiendish, Loren.&nbsp; Not only did this tantalizing bit of low-key marketing<BR>finally push me into subscribing to JTAS, but when I read the article<BR>("Mysteries", 2000/03/28, &lt;http://jtas.sjgames.com/login/article.cgi?54&gt;)<BR>I discover that you have anticipated all of my comments seven months in<BR>advance.&nbsp; I am left with only a handful of plausible theories:<BR><BR>* Loren is a Zhodani agent, using precognition to get my fifteen bucks.<BR>* Loren is a Hiver, using manipulation to get my fifteen bucks.<BR>* Loren (thanks to hanging around SJG) is a Magus, and used the secret<BR>&nbsp; powers of the Illuminati to apply both precog *and* manipulation to get<BR>&nbsp; my fifteen bucks.<BR>* Loren is Yaskodray, and wrote this article because he's beginning to<BR>&nbsp; regret allowing all his secrets to be spilled in a damn game supplement,<BR>&nbsp; which sold for about fifteen bucks.&nbsp; (Note the telling misdirection<BR>&nbsp; of all that talk about _buyer's_ remorse!)<BR>* All of the above.<BR>* Fnord.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 21:56:30 -0700<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Alan Bradley wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; Don't forget the very real possibility that another organization of<BR>&gt; &gt; time travellers will exist with a vested interest in<BR>&gt; &gt; de-integrating the<BR>&gt; &gt; time line. Or at least integrating to a different time line than the<BR>&gt; &gt; PC organization. There could conceivably be a number of different<BR>&gt; &gt; groups each intent on preserving a different version of reality.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It sounds like the TML converted into a game setting.&nbsp; Oh dear.<BR><BR>HA! That's the first time in about three years that a TML posting has caused<BR>to to actually laugh out loud.<BR><BR>Actually, I have a theory about why these different realities persist. The<BR>Traveller universe is big. Really big. So it's impossible to describe it in<BR>any great detail. Those of us who have been playing for years and years have<BR>spent lots of time thinking about how things work and how it all fits<BR>together to fill in the many gaps left by the published materials. The<BR>problem is that what each of us have constructed to fill in the gaps is<BR>different, and probably incompatible with the other version created by other<BR>people. Thus one TML poster will say, "Hey, that's impossible. Physics just<BR>won't permit it," but someone else will say, "I don't care about what<BR>physics says. My character _did_ it." Note that you also don't seem to have<BR>the same level of violent disagreement among players who are new to the<BR>game.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 04:33:49 EDT<BR>From: RBasler1@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/21/00 4:16:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Welllll...I can think of one rather complete SF setting with a wide range <BR>&gt; of humans &amp; furries...<BR>&gt; Catoids, Snow Leopardiods, Centaurs, Foxiods, skunkoids, and some others.<BR><BR>And it also has neat stuff like powered armor and (small) mecha!<BR><BR>&gt; I just don't see SJG putting out GURPS:Pendor though.... :-)<BR><BR>Well, maybe if they are willing to market it through adult comic<BR>distributors.. <BR>&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; OK, you have my interest - what is Pendor?&nbsp; I must have missed that one.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT&nbsp; (Ack!&nbsp; Two days to go!&nbsp; Too much to do!)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:45:57 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Uniforms<BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry wrote<BR>&gt; At 04:49 PM 10/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Anybody have any suggestions for an "X-boat 'pilot'" uniform?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why bother?&nbsp; <BR><BR>Please don't encourage SF fans to turn up to conventions naked, Doug.<BR>Please.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:06:39 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>Mark Urbin wrote :<BR>&gt; Welllll...I can think of one rather complete SF setting with a wide range<BR>&gt; of humans &amp; furries...<BR>&gt; Catoids, Snow Leopardiods, Centaurs, Foxiods, skunkoids, and some others.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I just don't see SJG putting out GURPS:Pendor though.... :-)<BR><BR>Maybe not, but I'd buy it !<BR><BR>The nearest we've got to this so far was the Theatrix Ironwood supplement,<BR>but Pendor would&nbsp; be better than Ironwood.<BR><BR>I always intended to have some Traveller players find it one day, because I<BR>know all my players would be thinking "Ringworld Engineers", Pak, Tree of<BR>Life, etc, and they'd get centaurs, cats, and bubble baths.<BR><BR>My favourite niche RPG though, which almost made it, was James Wallis'<BR>"Bugtown" RPG.<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:47:01 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>Rod Basler wrote:<BR>&gt; OK, you have my interest - what is Pendor?&nbsp; I must have <BR>&gt; missed that one.<BR><BR>Go here, and read the "Journal Entries" :<BR><BR>http://www.halcyon.com/elf/<BR><BR>( and make sure you put in the "/elf/" bit or you'll end up at hikin.com )<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:04:29 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Starport Announcements (was RE: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating&nbsp; (was Re: New FAQ addition))<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In mail you write:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; I would be happy to help in this.&nbsp; I have an old album <BR>&gt; (yes - an LP) from <BR>&gt; &gt; the evil Disney people that has a veritable plethora of <BR>&gt; sounds, etc - <BR>&gt; &gt; including some 'alien language' snippets that would be <BR>&gt; great for this.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I trust you've already converted *all* of it to a set of WAV files or<BR>&gt; the like?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; BTW, with uncompressed WAV files and a few other "raw data" format's<BR>&gt; you can create interesting effects simply by reversing the file. That<BR>&gt; is start with the *last* byte (or byte pair, if it's a 16-bit file),<BR>&gt; copy that as the first byte of a new file, and then proceed backwards<BR>&gt; thru the file.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; This gives you a time-reversed version of the sound (ie, what you'de<BR>&gt; get by playing the record or tape backwards). This can create some<BR>&gt; interesting "alien languages".<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>OTOH, resversed speech actually sound like reversed speech...I'd recommend<BR>acually making an announcement recording with speech accented as it would be<BR>in reverse, then reversing it.<BR><BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:11:43 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Ah, fame and glory!<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Finally some recognition for my hours of pointless web wandering!&nbsp; My<BR>&gt; suggestion for "Illuminated Site of the Week" was chosen my <BR>&gt; SJGames this<BR>&gt; week.&nbsp; I'm so proud! (Uh...can we say "nerdboy"? :-)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; sjgames.com/ill/<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's about a locust-controlled robot vehicle, so it's gotta <BR>&gt; be at least as<BR>&gt; Trav-related as some of the other stuff flying around here, right?<BR>&gt; Canadians will be especially happy to review how their tax dollars are<BR>&gt; being spent to further science!<BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>Congrats. Mine was the Onion story on Pantene Personality conditioner.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:33:23 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Dulinors Motivations<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; From: Gerry Harris <BR>&gt; &gt; Dulinor was a Democrat?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Reform Party, actually.&nbsp; A cross between Ross Perot and Jesse Ventura.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>A cross between Perot and Ventura? Sounds ghastly.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:37:07 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Miles Vorkosigan (was: Question about canon technology)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; You *do* post an x-boat "station" at each Alderson point. Much like in<BR>&gt; Bujold's Miles Vorkosogan stories.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But the in system lag time isn't the normal space transit time. It's<BR>&gt; the speed of light transit time between them. You don't *carry* the<BR>&gt; messages between them (at least not the urgent ones). You use a tight<BR>&gt; beam (laser, maser, whatever) link to transmit them from the just<BR>&gt; arrived about to the station which beams them to the other station(s)<BR>&gt; which load them into X-boats that are ready to jump.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Lower priority mail gets downloaded over a multi-fiber fiber optic<BR>&gt; link, as that will have thousands (maybe millions!) of times the<BR>&gt; bandwidth of any *possible* long range wireless link.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Then that data *will* be physically carried across the system.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sort of like the difference between airmail and surface mail between<BR>&gt; the US and Australia.<BR><BR>IIRC SJG announced a couple of months ago they picked up the license for<BR>Miles too. Should make for interesting crossover campaign<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3195<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sunday, October 22 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3196<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: CT/MT careers<BR>Re: CT/MT careers<BR>RE: Dulinors Motivations<BR>Re: SotA part 2<BR>"other" psi powers<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: Dulinors Motivations<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: 4000 AD<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>Re: SotA part 2 - getting what you wish for<BR>Re: SotA part 2<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: "other" psi powers<BR>Re: CT/MT careers<BR>Re: "other" psi powers<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: "other" psi powers<BR>Re: CT/MT careers<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:39:20 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>I quite enjoyed the ACG rules...I found it helped me get a feel for a<BR>character's past before he mustered out. I had to fiddle my rolls a little<BR>though (too many decorations)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Anthony Colosetti [mailto:acoloset@kent.edu]<BR>&gt; Sent: 21 October 2000 17:54<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: CT/MT careers<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; For those of you that still use the CT/MT character <BR>&gt; generation I would like<BR>&gt; to ask you a few questions.&nbsp; Does anyone know if the Special <BR>&gt; Duty roll was<BR>&gt; created for MT or was it an CT option created by DGP?&nbsp; Do you <BR>&gt; tend to like<BR>&gt; or dislike the advanced character generation systems from <BR>&gt; Mercenary/High<BR>&gt; Guard/Scouts?&nbsp; Has anyone made any personal changes to the CT <BR>&gt; skill system<BR>&gt; that they would like to share?&nbsp; Thanks again for your time...<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Anthony Colosetti<BR>&gt; acoloset@kent.edu<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; ---<BR>&gt; Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>&gt; Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>&gt; Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 08:34:08 -0400<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 16:36:06 PST<BR>&gt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; 3. Not enough careers.&nbsp; I would have gone for the advanced rules if there<BR>&gt; &gt; had been versions for all the careers found in say "Citizens of the<BR>&gt; &gt; Imperium", but there weren't.&nbsp; And you can't mix them because the advanced<BR>&gt; &gt; chargen makes much more powerful characters.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Well, there *were* advanced rules for the "standard" professions.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - --<BR>&gt; Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>&gt; leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; I have a set of rules for extending the "Basic" career generation<BR>system to produce results more like the "Extended" generation which<BR>works with any set of basic career generation table (Other, Citizens of<BR>the Imperium, etc.) I'll have to look through my folder of older stuff<BR>if you are interested. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 05:26:02 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Dulinors Motivations<BR><BR>Either way, like most do-gooders, Dulinor managed to bollux things up<BR>beyond all recognition.&nbsp; He shoulda listened when mom told him what the<BR>road to hell was paved with.<BR><BR>- --- "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; From: Gerry Harris <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Dulinor was a Democrat?<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Reform Party, actually.&nbsp; A cross between Ross Perot and Jesse<BR>&gt; Ventura.<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; A cross between Perot and Ventura? Sounds ghastly.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 13:58:41 +0100<BR>From: Rob Myers &lt;robm@onetel.net.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: SotA part 2<BR><BR>Yeah, these adventures *define* CT for me. <BR><BR>- - Rob.<BR><BR>On Saturday, October 21, 2000, at 09:36 PM, D Smart wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Not a letdown for this fan! The "Ancients" series <BR>&gt; (Twilight's Peak, SotA)&nbsp; <BR>&gt; are still my favorites of all time.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:48:39 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>I was reading through the CT PSI power rules last night and started thinking<BR>about powers in the "other" group. Has anyone compiled a list of such<BR>powers? (I.e. new power categories and/or abilities.) If so, can I find them<BR>on the web somewhere? If not (and perhaps if there is a lot of material<BR>apart from the stuff published on the 'net), I'd be willing to take<BR>submissions and post a combined list to the TML, if there is interest.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:19:17 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>James Jensen writes:<BR>&gt;Point 1: Maybe it fuses the atoms and then splits them again. Would this <BR>&gt;produce even more power than simply fission/fusion?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Energy can be neither created nor destroyed, or else physics as we<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; know it is fatally flawed.&nbsp; If you can get energy out of fusing atoms,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; then you must put at least that much energy back in to split them<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; again ("at least" because there is always some wasted energy).<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Fusing hydrogen into helium releases energy, splitting helium into<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; hydrogen requires energy.&nbsp; Fusing heavier atoms tends to release<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; less energy or even require energy, and the heavier atoms release<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; energy when split (e.g. uranium).<BR><BR>&gt;Point 2: This is Science Fiction. Technology doesn't _have_ to be strictly <BR>&gt;according to current science. Thrust-Plates, Artificial Gravity, the Jump <BR>&gt;Drive - none of them are possible with current or foreseeable technology.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I absolutely agree.&nbsp; I use whatever technology gives me a fun<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; game, as long as I and my players do not recoil at the absurdity of<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; something.<BR><BR>&gt;Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless" drive be <BR>&gt;termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour the <BR>&gt;action of propulsion?<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "Action" and "reaction" are entirely relative in this context.&nbsp; When a<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; rocket engine goes one way and the exhaust goes the other, which is<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; "acting" and which is "reacting?"<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:20:51 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>Alan Bradley writes:<BR>&gt;From: Megan Robertson<BR>&gt;&gt;Hmm - X-Boat Pilot uniform... how about a set of coveralls<BR>&gt;Dressing gown and slippers.&nbsp; Kind of like you haven't got out of bed for<BR>&gt;the last week.&nbsp; <BR>&gt;Contact and Liasion scouts:&nbsp; think Apocalypse Now.&nbsp; You've been 'in<BR>&gt;country' for years, and have gone a little bit headhunter...&nbsp; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; And a towel.&nbsp; Don't forget your towel.<BR><BR>:)<BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:22:52 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Alan Bradley writes:<BR>&gt;From: Ian Ferguson <BR>&gt;&gt;It is worth mentioning that some of us still have hydrogen plasma<BR>&gt;&gt;spewing out the rear at reletivistic speed as a ship accelerates.<BR>&gt;It is probably not worth mentioning that my brain chose to read the passage<BR>&gt;above completely out of context.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; LOL!&nbsp; I have GOT to read what I write more carefully.<BR><BR>&gt;Space flight would scare me too.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; It gives a whole new meaning to "the Right Stuff."<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:43:42 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>At 16:10 -0400 20/10/00, Bruce Johnson &lt;johnson@pharmacy.arizona.edu&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;Any call to 'de-canonise' this, that or the other, merely fragments the<BR>&gt;gaming universe into multiverses.<BR><BR>Absolutely, and I hope that it doesn't happen for exactly that <BR>reason. However, I can still wish that TNE didn't happen like it did! <BR>I have/had problems with suspending my disbelief that much. However, <BR>the material produced *was* good. I just don't particularly like the <BR>violence to the setting. I'd rather have seen TNE being a new, <BR>alternative Traveller background - a different universe, if you will.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:54:14 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:20:34 +1000<BR>&gt; From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; From: Ian Ferguson<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; It is worth mentioning that some of us still have hydrogen<BR>plasma<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; spewing out the rear at reletivistic speed as a ship<BR>accelerates.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It is probably not worth mentioning that my brain chose to read the<BR>passage<BR>&gt; above completely out of context.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Space flight would scare me too.<BR><BR>It struck me as a reasonably painfull method of spaceflight as well.<BR><BR>Dave Shayne<BR><BR>"Do you think that I'm crazy?<BR>Out of my mind?<BR>Do you think that I creep in the night<BR>And sleep in a phone booth?<BR><BR>"Mother People" - Frank Zappa<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:05:46 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Dulinors Motivations<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 12:33:23 +0100<BR>&gt; From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR><BR>&gt; A cross between Perot and Ventura? Sounds ghastly.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Dean<BR><BR>&lt;Marvin the Paranoid Android&gt;<BR><BR>It is. Absolutely Ghastly.<BR><BR>&lt;/Marvin the Paranoid Android&gt;<BR><BR>Dave Shayne<BR><BR>"Do you think that I'm crazy?<BR>Out of my mind?<BR>Do you think that I creep in the night<BR>And sleep in a phone booth?<BR><BR>"Mother People" - Frank Zappa<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:49:17 -0400<BR>From: "DaveShayne" &lt;daveshayne@email.msn.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:03:26 +1000<BR>&gt; From: "Alan Bradley" &lt;alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Don't forget the very real possibility that another organization of<BR>&gt; &gt; time travellers will exist with a vested interest in<BR>&gt; &gt; de-integrating the<BR>&gt; &gt; time line. Or at least integrating to a different time line than the<BR>&gt; &gt; PC organization. There could conceivably be a number of different<BR>&gt; &gt; groups each intent on preserving a different version of reality.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; It sounds like the TML converted into a game setting.&nbsp; Oh dear.<BR><BR>With the possible exception that flame wars are a bit more<BR>incindiary (for lack of a better word) when prosecuted via fusion gun.<BR><BR>Oh and LOL by the way.<BR><BR>Dave Shayne<BR><BR>"Do you think that I'm crazy?<BR>Out of my mind?<BR>Do you think that I creep in the night<BR>And sleep in a phone booth?<BR><BR>"Mother People" - Frank Zappa<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:17:07 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: 4000 AD<BR><BR>At 4:53 +0000 22/10/00,&nbsp; "Alan and Carmel Brain" <BR>&lt;aebrain@dynamite.com.au&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt;A complete copy of the old Waddington/Parker Bros game<BR>&gt;"4000 AD". 3-D strategic space warfare.<BR><BR>Has it got the 'strategy book' with it? My copy of the rule smention <BR>this, but it wasn't in the printing I bought.<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:54:03 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>At 19:13 -0400 21/10/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;DNeither. The bit about the "Han consul" makes it the book ("Armageddon:<BR>&gt;2419 AD" by Phillip Nowlan(?)) or maybe the comic strip.<BR><BR><BR>I thought you were doing a Cherryh cross over here and that the Kif <BR>might have appeared too...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:32:47 EDT<BR>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: SotA part 2 - getting what you wish for<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/21/00 10:21:58 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Re: SotA part 2<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Frankly, I think shedding *any* light on the nature of the Ancients<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; (including very basic things, like their relationship to the Droyne)<BR>&gt; &gt;&nbsp; was a mistake. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perhaps. But bear in mind it was the single most demanded product GDW had <BR>&gt; produced up to that time -- fans _wanted_ that book in the worst way . . . <BR>&gt; right up until they got it. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Then the reaction was pretty much as you describe -- a big let-down. We <BR>&gt; should have seen it coming, but we didn't. As I said, I dealt with this in <BR>&gt; a <BR>&gt; JTAS editirial a while back.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Considering other experiences, it might be best that Traveller players be <BR>more careful in the phrasing of their wishes....... (obviously, they never <BR>played D&amp;D in our group, otherwise they'd know better :)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ). Seems they <BR>complain everytime they get what they want......<BR><BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 11:37:49 EDT<BR>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: SotA part 2<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/21/00 4:16:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; Re: SotA part 2<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; On Sat, 21 Oct 2000 11:38:36 EDT, GDWGAMES@aol.com wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Frankly, I think shedding *any* light on the nature of the Ancients<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; (including very basic things, like their relationship to the Droyne)<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt;&nbsp; was a mistake.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Perhaps. But bear in mind it was the single most demanded product GDW had<BR>&gt; &gt;produced up to that time -- fans _wanted_ that book in the worst way . . .<BR>&gt; &gt;right up until they got it.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Then the reaction was pretty much as you describe -- a big let-down. We<BR>&gt; &gt;should have seen it coming, but we didn't. As I said, I dealt with this in <BR>&gt; a<BR>&gt; &gt;JTAS editirial a while back.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;LKW<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;dilbert&gt;<BR>&gt; "It's exactly what we asked for, but it's not what we want."<BR>&gt; &lt;/dilbert&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Some things don't change - call it part of human nature.&nbsp; See the reaction <BR>&gt; to the first new STAR WARS movie in decades (especially the difference <BR>&gt; between the trailers and the movie itself).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Sometimes I think even the literal Second Coming would have its critics... <BR>&gt; not flashy enough, no Rapture, Jesus is supposed to be white and not some <BR>&gt; raghead, etc.&nbsp; ;)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR><BR><BR>See X-files Miracle Man (season 1), the second coming was here already, but <BR>the police killed him.....<BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 09:00:26 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 19:21:54 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;HEPLar is a *too* efficient reaction drive. It appears to require<BR>&gt; &gt;partial fusion to avoid violating conservation of energy.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Point 1: Maybe it fuses the atoms and then splits them again. Would this <BR>&gt; produce even more power than simply fission/fusion?<BR><BR>Nope; were this true, it would lead to a perpetual energy source.<BR>Elements lighter than iron release energy when fused; elements heavier<BR>than iron release energy when split.<BR><BR>&gt; Point 2: This is Science Fiction. Technology doesn't _have_ to be strictly <BR>&gt; according to current science. Thrust-Plates, Artificial Gravity, the Jump <BR>&gt; Drive - none of them are possible with current or foreseeable technology.<BR><BR>Yes, but it's a "hard science fiction" game, so the general tendency is to<BR>follow the laws of physics as we currently understand them by default,<BR>with carefully thought out exceptions for the advanced tech that makes it<BR>a far-future SF game.&nbsp; One advantage of this tendency is that it reduces<BR>the impact of the Law of Unintended Uses.<BR><BR>&gt; Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless" drive be <BR>&gt; termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour the <BR>&gt; action of propulsion?<BR><BR>Not really.&nbsp; 'The action' is accelerating the ship.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:17:33 +0300 (EET DST)<BR>From: "Mikko V. I. Parviainen" &lt;mvparvia@cc.hut.fi&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt; At 02:52 PM 10/21/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt; &gt;Well, obviously, if I'm at a con, I'm not in the X-boat. :-)<BR>&gt; BayCon 2002 party theme: "Life in an X-boat"<BR><BR>Hm, this gives me ideas for Ropecon 2001. Thank You. B-)<BR><BR>&gt; &gt;And from your comment, I take you're a "casual nudist" at home?<BR>&gt; Well, in the day before roommates, yes.&nbsp; Why bother?&nbsp; No rain, temperture<BR>&gt; controlled.. might as well stay naked.<BR><BR>I have always wondered what the ship crews (and passangers, of course) do<BR>during a jump. A week is a long time to be in a small ship. Now you have<BR>given me some confirmation on my suspicions...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>+++++++++[&gt;+++++++++&lt;-]&gt;-.&lt;+++++[&gt;+++&lt;-]++&gt;++.&lt;++[&gt;++++&lt;-]+&gt;+.&lt;++[&gt;----<BR>&lt;-]&gt;-.&gt;+++[&gt;++++++++++&lt;-]++&gt;++pare@iki.fi&lt;+[&gt;++++&lt;-]&gt;+.-&gt;+[&gt;++++[&lt;&lt;---&gt;<BR>&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;.&gt;&gt;+++++++[&lt;++++++++++&gt;-]++++[&lt;+++++&gt;-]&lt;-.&gt;[-]&gt;+++[&gt;++[&lt;&lt;&lt;----&gt;&gt;<BR>&lt;&gt;&gt;-]&lt;-]&lt;&lt;.+.&gt;[-]++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;.++.[-]&gt;[-]++++[&lt;++&gt;-]&lt;++.&gt;&gt;++[&gt;++[&gt;-&lt;-]&lt;--]<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 17:53 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;001901c03c2e$d5ac87b0$230410ac@1ghz&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>I did once consider rebuilding TRAVELLER psionics using the powers <BR>described in Julian May's 'Many-Coloured Land' and following books.<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 13:08:06 -0400<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>&gt; I have a set of rules for extending the "Basic" career generation<BR>&gt; system to produce results more like the "Extended" generation which<BR>&gt; works with any set of basic career generation table (Other, Citizens of<BR>&gt; the Imperium, etc.) I'll have to look through my folder of older stuff<BR>&gt; if you are interested.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; --<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>I would be greatly interested thank you.<BR>If anyone else has any expanded Character generation rules they would like<BR>to share I would be quite the willing audience...<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti<BR>acoloset@kent.edu<BR><BR><BR><BR>- ---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 10:09:11 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>I use the TNE rules, so I just import the Dark Conspiracy empathic<BR>powers and have done with it.<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 13:12:00 EDT<BR>From: RBasler1@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/22/00 4:41:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>On 10/21/00 at 07:37 AM,&nbsp; "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt; <BR>said:<BR><BR>&gt;At 04:49 PM 10/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;Anybody have any suggestions for an "X-boat 'pilot'" uniform?<BR><BR>&gt;To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why bother? <BR>&gt;When I had to get dressed, basic coveralls with the Communications<BR>&gt;Branch logo would be appropriate.<BR>&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Given the reputation of the scout service, for every casual nudist the <BR>simply threw a towel over ant surface that couldn't be cleaned with a <BR>handi-wipe, there is a anal retentive, obsessive/compulsive, detail freak <BR>that polishes his shoes and buttons, dressing in full Class As for an <BR>'officer's mess' of 1.&nbsp; You know, the classic British colonialist who dressed <BR>in coat and tie for dinner in the 100+ degree (F) heat.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:05:10 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>Megan wrote:<BR>&gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I did once consider rebuilding TRAVELLER psionics using the powers<BR>&gt; described in Julian May's 'Many-Coloured Land' and following books.<BR><BR>Hmmm. Never heard of those. Are they fiction books or rule books (and if so,<BR>what's the name of the game?)?<BR><BR>Gerry wrote:<BR>&gt; I use the TNE rules, so I just import the Dark Conspiracy empathic<BR>&gt; powers and have done with it.<BR><BR>Gah. I won't buy _another_ RPG just to get some PSI powers for MTU.... I<BR>hope. I've done that sort of thing too many times already. But thanks to<BR>both of you for the leads, anyways.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:51:54 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>Here's my Generic Expanded Character Generation System (GECGS).<BR><BR>Note: This is completely from memory. I've lost the sheet that I wrote it <BR>on.<BR><BR>Warnings: This system is fairly lifeless and provides no specific mission <BR>types. It's meant to replace Books 4-7. You can use these books if you like, <BR>but chances are that GECGS characters will actually be more powerful.<BR><BR>With that said:<BR><BR>GECGS Checklist<BR>1.0 Roll up UPP<BR>2.0 Enlist in career as per normal rules.<BR>3.0 Roll 2D each year to determine mission difficulty. Higher is safer.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.1 If the difficulty is 12, then the mission is a Special Mission.&nbsp; <BR>Otherwise continue with 3.2.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.11 Roll once on each skill table, regardless of Education.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.12 Go to 4.0.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.2 Throw {S+[(D/2)-4]}+ for survival, where D is the mission difficulty <BR>rating and S is the normal survival throw (round up).<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.3 If not commissioned, throw [C-(D/3)]+, rounding down, where C is the <BR>normal commission throw.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.4 If commissioned, try for promotion. Throw [P-(D/3)], rounding down, <BR>where P is the normal promotion throw.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.5 Throw (2D-E)+ for a decoration, where E is the total DMs for <BR>Enlistment in that career.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 3.51 If the roll is 3+ greater than needed, a Level Two Decoration was <BR>earned. If the roll is 6+ greater than needed, a Level Three decoration was <BR>earned. (Optional: And so on...)<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.6 Throw D+ to gain a skill level, rolled from one fo the four tables.<BR>4.0 If the previous year was the fourth of a term, throw for re-enlistment. <BR>Otherwise, go to 3.0. (Optional: DM+1 to re-enlist if commissioned)<BR>5.0 Muster out as per normal rules. (Optional: Add one roll for each Level <BR>Three or higher decoration)<BR><BR>Obviously, those who wish for a more detailed background must decide the <BR>nature of each mission based on its difficulty. Only one promotion may be <BR>gained per term.<BR><BR>Hope that helps.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:14:23 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt;the impact of the Law of Unintended Uses.<BR><BR>Which is???<BR><BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless" drive <BR>&gt;be<BR>&gt; &gt; termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour the<BR>&gt; &gt; action of propulsion?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Not really.&nbsp; 'The action' is accelerating the ship.<BR><BR>Perhaps, but does the reaction mass have to be shot out of the back of the <BR>ship _before_ it accelerates. It seems to me that the "action" that happens <BR>second is actually the reaction.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3196<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Sunday, October 22 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3197<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: CT/MT careers<BR>RE: "other" psi powers<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Another Novel<BR>Re: "other" psi powers<BR>Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: "other" psi powers<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Info needed on the Hhkar<BR>Type-L Lab Ship<BR>Re: Time-reversed speech<BR>Re: Type-L Lab Ship<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: action/reaction<BR>Re: SotA 2<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>CT/MT careers<BR>Re: Carried Away Gearheader<BR>RE: Quantum Computing<BR>RE: On To The Far Future<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:20:34 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>Thom Jones-Low writes:<BR>&gt;I have a set of rules for extending the "Basic" career generation<BR>&gt;system to produce results more like the "Extended" generation which<BR>&gt;works with any set of basic career generation table (Other, Citizens of<BR>&gt;the Imperium, etc.) I'll have to look through my folder of older stuff<BR>&gt;if you are interested. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I am.<BR><BR>:)<BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:22:43 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Ian Ferguson &lt;ian@vax2.concordia.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>Tage Borg writes:<BR>&gt;I was reading through the CT PSI power rules last night and started thinking<BR>&gt;about powers in the "other" group. Has anyone compiled a list of such<BR>&gt;powers? (I.e. new power categories and/or abilities.) If so, can I find them<BR>&gt;on the web somewhere? If not (and perhaps if there is a lot of material<BR>&gt;apart from the stuff published on the 'net), I'd be willing to take<BR>&gt;submissions and post a combined list to the TML, if there is interest.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; I have such a list that I use.&nbsp; Well, use is perhaps a strong word.<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; My list is there just in case I ever need it.&nbsp; It is not handy just now,<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; but I can pass it along to anyone who is interested.<BR><BR>Peez<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:39:24 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless" <BR>&gt;&gt;drive<BR>&gt;&gt;be<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour the<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt; action of propulsion?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Not really.&nbsp; 'The action' is accelerating the ship.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Perhaps, but does the reaction mass have to be shot out of the back of the<BR>&gt;ship _before_ it accelerates. It seems to me that the "action" that happens<BR>&gt;second is actually the reaction.<BR><BR>Oops: should say, "doesn't the reaction mass"...<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:05:50 +0100<BR>From: "MJ Dougherty" &lt;martinjd@globalnet.co.uk&gt;<BR>Subject: Another Novel<BR><BR>I've just had confirmation that The Eye of Glory is good to go. It'll be out<BR>by Christmas, from Hekaforge (who publish Lejendary Adventures - which TEOG<BR>ties in with, though it also stands alone as good fantasy).<BR><BR>Anyway, I'm looking for a party of 3-5 adventurers. The patron wants them to<BR>take receipt of a document by email, read it and offer their comments to the<BR>TML. Applicants are invited to contact the patron by Planetary Datanet<BR>Message (email me direct, OK?)<BR><BR>Resolutions:<BR><BR>1. The party each read chapters 1-3 and write a glowing reference to the<BR>TML, resulting in increased interest in the book.<BR>2. The party each read ch 1-3 and write somewhat mixed reviews<BR>3. The party hate the book and slam it<BR>4. Nobody takes any notice<BR>5-6. The TML is engulfed by a debate about whether this book proves that the<BR>writer is a fascist, or embraces the Comfy Shoe Heresy.... the original post<BR>is forgtten about in the subsequent flurry of flames and counter-flames....<BR><BR><BR>Subsequent events are up to the referee to determine....<BR><BR><BR>Martin J Dougherty<BR>Author: Behind the Throne, A Brevet for the Guillotine<BR>Creative Director, Fiction &amp; Fantasy Network<BR>www.fiction-fantasy.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:40 +0100 (BST)<BR>From: mcrobertson@cix.compulink.co.uk (Megan Robertson)<BR>Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>In-Reply-To: &lt;000e01c03c52$a1768da0$230410ac@1ghz&gt;<BR>Greetings dear hearts.<BR><BR>Julian May writes fiction. The series beginning "The Many-Coloured Land" <BR>had a group of psionically-active characters whose powers fell into: -<BR><BR>Coercion - i.e. 'mind-control' type abilities<BR>Redaction - healing, both mental &amp; physical<BR>Creativity - the ability to actually make something tangible<BR>Telepathy<BR>Far-sensing - clairvoyance, clairaudience stuff<BR><BR>(I think - it must be about 8-9 years since I read them...)<BR><BR>Must try &amp; find the books, see if something can be made of that :-)<BR><BR>Hugs and kisses,<BR><BR>Mexal.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:17:35 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>If one were to take a balloon and fill it with the proper mixture of helium <BR>and oxygen, would this result in a zero bouyancy in air?<BR><BR>Just something I thought of one day...<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR><BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 14:18:37 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:14:23 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;the impact of the Law of Unintended Uses.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Which is???<BR><BR>Briefly stated:&nbsp; "Given any new technology, the players will think of more<BR>uses for it than the game master can predict."&nbsp; The corrolaries are that<BR>these unintended uses may both wreck the balance of a particular scenario<BR>and destroy the game as a whole.<BR><BR>For a perfect example, let's look at the transporter in Star Trek.&nbsp; It was<BR>dreamed up by Rodenberry as a dramatic shortcut, so that every episode<BR>wouldn't have to waste time showing the sequence of a shuttle being<BR>boarded, launching, going somewhere, arriving, and being exited.&nbsp; It was<BR>also a nice piece of technical 'flash', and suggested some story<BR>possibilities.<BR><BR>Unfortunately, it also created a huge pain in the neck for writers trying<BR>to put characters in danger.&nbsp; How seriously can you be threatened when<BR>escape is as close as yelling "One to beam up!" into a pocket<BR>communicator?&nbsp; So in episode after episode, the writers had to go through<BR>all kinds of plot contortions to explain why transporting out wasn't an<BR>option.&nbsp; And after a while the handwaving got pretty tiresome.<BR><BR>What's more, once the players realize that an unintended use is possible,<BR>you as the GM can expect to be asked why, if this neato trick has been<BR>possible for 3,000 years, nobody else has thought of it?&nbsp; The classic<BR>example here is the near-c rock dilemma.&nbsp; Thruster plates in Traveller are<BR>a 'convenience technology' very similar to the Trek transporter; they're<BR>designed to make in-system travel easy and cheap, and to duplicate the<BR>'feel' of space travel common to a lot of SF, especially cinematic SF.<BR>Unfortunately, t-plates break various conservation laws.&nbsp; It turns out<BR>that you can wreck an entire earthlike world with a single lifeboat, just<BR>by starting out in the Oort cloud and accelerating all the way in.&nbsp; The<BR>energy the boat has on impact is stupendously greater than the energy<BR>required for this acceleration.<BR><BR>So, suppose your players need to clean out a nest of bad guys on some<BR>otherwise unoccupied world, and they hit on the near-c rock ploy.&nbsp; Do you<BR>let them do it?&nbsp; There's no good (canonical) reason to stop them -- tough<BR>of course they've just trashed all your work on the map of the base, the<BR>NPC who will cooperate with the characters, the evidence of a certain<BR>noble's involvement, and so forth...it'll all just disappear in a big<BR>flash, and you'll be left scrambling for a new scenario to run.&nbsp; But it's<BR>even worse than that, because then, of course, you'll be asked why near-c<BR>rock attacks aren't common, why none happened during the 5FW, why<BR>terrorists aren't tossing them around every day, and so forth.&nbsp; There's no<BR>good way out of this trap.<BR><BR>If you stay as close as you can to known physics and technology, then you<BR>increase your odds of avoiding unintended uses and the resulting pain and<BR>damage to the game.<BR><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless" drive <BR>&gt; &gt;be<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; action of propulsion?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Not really.&nbsp; 'The action' is accelerating the ship.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Perhaps, but does the reaction mass have to be shot out of the back of<BR>&gt; the ship _before_ it accelerates. It seems to me that the "action" that<BR>&gt; happens second is actually the reaction. <BR><BR>The whole point of Newton's laws is that the two happen at the same<BR>instant, symmetrically.&nbsp; You can with perfect accuracy view the Space<BR>Shuttle as the reaction mass that some hydrazine molecules are using to<BR>propel themselves out of low earth orbit. :) <BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:24:08 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>&gt; Tage Borg writes:<BR>&gt; &gt;I was reading through the CT PSI power rules last night and started<BR>thinking<BR>&gt; &gt;about powers in the "other" group. Has anyone compiled a list of such<BR>&gt; &gt;powers? (I.e. new power categories and/or abilities.) If so, can I find<BR>them<BR>&gt; &gt;on the web somewhere? If not (and perhaps if there is a lot of material<BR>&gt; &gt;apart from the stuff published on the 'net), I'd be willing to take<BR>&gt; &gt;submissions and post a combined list to the TML, if there is interest.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; I have such a list that I use.&nbsp; Well, use is perhaps a strong<BR>word.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; My list is there just in case I ever need it.&nbsp; It is not handy<BR>just now,<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; but I can pass it along to anyone who is interested.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Peez<BR><BR>I'd love to see them. If you have your list in electronic format, please<BR>send it to TML or to me personally (if posting such things to the list is<BR>non PC). Or even better, put it on the web!<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:34:08 +0200<BR>From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>&gt; If one were to take a balloon and fill it with the proper mixture of<BR>helium<BR>&gt; and oxygen, would this result in a zero bouyancy in air?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just something I thought of one day...<BR><BR>You could make it work, I think. But if you want to keep the balloon up,<BR>you'll need to compensate for the loss of (primarily) helium over time.<BR>Nothing can keep air "inside" perfectly , much less helium (yes, spacesuits<BR>and spacecraft leak air, albeit fortunately at a slow rate ;-). Also, you<BR>would need to give the balloon a rigid frame, to keep the outside pressure<BR>from deflating your balloon, thus making its density rise and its lift to go<BR>away. Your balloon would be a dirigible or a blimp. But much larger than an<BR>ordinary blimp, since the oxygen increases the density of the construction.<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; /Tage<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 17:00:16 -0500<BR>From: Robert Gilson &lt;rgilson@uswest.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Info needed on the Hhkar<BR><BR>What I need to know is what are the canon sources of information on this<BR>race. I have the Challenge 52 article but was wondering if there was<BR>more.<BR><BR>Also I need to know information about the Traveller Adventure<BR>Shadows. I don't have this adventure and from what I have heard<BR>the Hhkar are the dead race that is covered in that adventure.<BR><BR>I don't care about spoilers I just want to make sure my submission<BR>to the next Alien Races book is correct with canon.<BR><BR>Robert Gilson<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 18:18:35 -0400<BR>From: "Anthony Colosetti" &lt;acoloset@kent.edu&gt;<BR>Subject: Type-L Lab Ship<BR><BR>Does anyone know the actual name of the Type-L Lab ship class?&nbsp; In addition<BR>what (if any) other ships have you GMs or players given or received as<BR>mustering out benefits that differ from the typical ships given?<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti<BR>acoloset@kent.edu<BR><BR><BR>- ---<BR>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.<BR>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).<BR>Version: 6.0.198 / Virus Database: 95 - Release Date: 10/4/00<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:26:52 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Time-reversed speech<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; BTW, with uncompressed WAV files and a few other "raw data" format's<BR>&gt; &gt; you can create interesting effects simply by reversing the file. That<BR>&gt; &gt; is start with the *last* byte (or byte pair, if it's a 16-bit file),<BR>&gt; &gt; copy that as the first byte of a new file, and then proceed backwards<BR>&gt; &gt; thru the file.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; This gives you a time-reversed version of the sound (ie, what you'de<BR>&gt; &gt; get by playing the record or tape backwards). This can create some<BR>&gt; &gt; interesting "alien languages".<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; OTOH, resversed speech actually sound like reversed speech...I'd recommend<BR>&gt; acually making an announcement recording with speech accented as it would<BR>be<BR>&gt; in reverse, then reversing it.<BR><BR>_Twin Peaks_. To do the odd accent of the dancing dwarf in the dream<BR>sequences,<BR>they recorded his lines, had him listen to his lines backward over and over,<BR>then he<BR>did his best to mimic the backward version, and they recorded and reversed<BR>*that*.<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 17:36:16 -0500<BR>From: John Groth &lt;wombat@premier.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Type-L Lab Ship<BR><BR>Anthony Colosetti wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Does anyone know the actual name of the Type-L Lab ship class?&nbsp; In addition<BR>&gt; what (if any) other ships have you GMs or players given or received as<BR>&gt; mustering out benefits that differ from the typical ships given?<BR><BR>The lab ship in GT (which has, AFAICT, the same configuration as the<BR>Type-L) is the _Kugashin_ class.&nbsp; I don't know of any previous Traveller<BR>edition that named the lab ship by class name.<BR><BR>Meanwhile, I had a character who received a yacht as a mustering-out<BR>benefit (using T4 chargen).&nbsp; Since the standard Type-Y is limited to<BR>J-1, I asked the referee if the character could take a slightly<BR>customized Far Trader (thus providing J-2 capability) in lieu of the<BR>Type-Y, with most of the cargo area fitted as a ballroom.&nbsp; (Said<BR>character has since become obscenely wealthy, and has had a 1000-dton<BR>yacht custom built by AuricTech Shipyards.)<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>"A slipping gear could let your M203 grenade launcher fire when you<BR>least expect it. That would make you quite unpopular in what's left of<BR>your unit."<BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -- In the August 1993 issue, page 9, of PS magazine, the Army's<BR>magazine of preventive maintenance<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 17:38:59 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Given the reputation of the scout service, for every casual nudist the<BR>&gt;simply threw a towel over ant surface that couldn't be cleaned with a<BR>&gt;handi-wipe, there is a anal retentive, obsessive/compulsive, detail freak<BR>&gt;that polishes his shoes and buttons, dressing in full Class As for an<BR>&gt;'officer's mess' of 1.&nbsp; You know, the classic British colonialist who <BR>&gt;dressed<BR>&gt;in coat and tie for dinner in the 100+ degree (F) heat.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT<BR><BR>So basically what you're saying is "For every Lister, there is an equal and <BR>opposite Rimmer."<BR><BR>Sounds about right.<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:04:59 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>At 16:15 -0400 22/10/00, "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt; wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless" drive<BR>&gt; &gt;be<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; action of propulsion?<BR>&gt; &gt;Not really.&nbsp; 'The action' is accelerating the ship.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Perhaps, but does the reaction mass have to be shot out of the back of the<BR>&gt;ship _before_ it accelerates. It seems to me that the "action" that happens<BR>&gt;second is actually the reaction.<BR><BR>Assuming you're talking about HEPLaR...<BR><BR>Yes, you do cause a nuclear reaction in creating the plasma however: <BR>it is the action of the ship (accelerating in the opposite direction <BR>to the mass thrown out the back of the ship) that actually defines <BR>whether the drive is reactionless or not. In HEPLaR's case, the drive <BR>is a reaction drive.<BR><BR>Thruster Plates (MT/T4) are reactionless, because they don't work by <BR>throwing a mass out of the back(*). The descriptions in FFS2(**) <BR>handwave that the drive works by 'grabbing' the curvature of space <BR>caused by massive bodies (ie the local star). It pulls the ship <BR>through space.<BR><BR><BR>(*) there is a blue/white radiation emission, but this doesn't <BR>actually produce the thrust.<BR>(**) this was slightly modified from the FFS1(***) and MT <BR>descriptions which had the drive pushing against the plate itself. <BR>This had certain big reality issues which resulted in the changes <BR>between FFS1/FFS2.<BR>(***) Interestingly, the HEPLaR change was one of the big TNE changes <BR>that got people really wound up. I suspect that the reaction (no pun <BR>intended) of people was exacerbated because T-Plates were listed <BR>fourth in the alternative technologies after 'realistic thrusters, <BR>ion drives, and the Dean Drive'.<BR><BR>T4 merged both TNE and MT threads by making both HEPLaR and Thrusters <BR>available - they have different advantages and are available at <BR>different tech levels. I thought this was a really nice addition (and <BR>it was pretty in line with MT, which had plasma torch engine options <BR>added in Hard Times). HEPLaR fills low tech and high performance <BR>booster areas quite well (****).<BR><BR>(****) as the T-Plates are a handwave anyway, I think that T4 should <BR>have considered limiting them to 6G in line with CT/MT and used the <BR>argument that the technology was limited in the levels of performance <BR>attainable. It would make justifying the older style ship designs <BR>easier.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com--------<BR>"Even in the most depressing dystopia, there's still the notion<BR>that the future is something we build. It doesn't just happen.<BR>You can't predict the future, but you can invent it. Build it." -<BR>'Fallen Angels' Niven/Pournelle/Flynn ---All Rob Prior's<BR>MacOS software @ http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:38:43 -0700<BR>From: Russell Bornschlegel &lt;kaleja@estarcion.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: action/reaction<BR><BR>James Jensen wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless"<BR>drive<BR>&gt; &gt;be<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour<BR>the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; action of propulsion?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Not really.&nbsp; 'The action' is accelerating the ship.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Perhaps, but does the reaction mass have to be shot out of the back of the<BR>&gt; ship _before_ it accelerates. It seems to me that the "action" that<BR>happens<BR>&gt; second is actually the reaction.<BR><BR>Not so. Action and reaction are simultaneous. The ship is shooting away from<BR>the<BR>reaction mass as the reaction mass is shooting away from the ship.<BR><BR>- -Russell B<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:05:09 EDT<BR>From: GDWGAMES@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: SotA 2<BR><BR>&gt; Considering other experiences, it might be best that Traveller players be <BR>&gt;&nbsp; more careful in the phrasing of their wishes....... (obviously, they never <BR>&gt;&nbsp; played D&amp;D in our group, otherwise they'd know better :)&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; ). Seems they <BR>&gt;&nbsp; complain everytime they get what they want......<BR><BR>Problem is, what people want and what they _say_ they want are sometimes two <BR>different things.<BR><BR>LKW<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:38:14 -0500<BR>From: "Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>It might. I think you may be on to something.<BR><BR>It's not CG, but it just may be feasible to build such a craft...however,<BR>with current hull design rules, a Factor 40 (Using MT Rules) armor thickness<BR>hull would probably be quite large...<BR><BR><BR>- ----- Original Message -----<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 4:17 PM<BR>Subject: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR><BR>&gt; If one were to take a balloon and fill it with the proper mixture of<BR>helium<BR>&gt; and oxygen, would this result in a zero bouyancy in air?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Just something I thought of one day...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; -J. Jensen<BR>&gt; ========================================<BR>&gt; "It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite<BR>&gt; reaction.'"<BR>&gt; -Rev Bem<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; _________________________________________________________________________<BR>&gt; Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at<BR>&gt; http://profiles.msn.com.<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:47:51 CDT<BR>From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "Action" and "reaction" are entirely relative in this context.&nbsp; <BR>&gt;When a<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; rocket engine goes one way and the exhaust goes the other, which <BR>&gt;is<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; "acting" and which is "reacting?"<BR><BR>So then actionless and reactionless could be used interchangebly. Given the <BR>choice, I'd choose reactionless.<BR><BR>But: Are T-Plates *really* actionless/reactionless? GURPS Space describes <BR>reactionless drive as those which do not push against anything for <BR>acceleration. T-Plates "push" against the gravity well of a star, don't <BR>they?<BR><BR>- -J. Jensen<BR>========================================<BR>"It is written, 'For every action, there is an equal and opposite <BR>reaction.'"<BR>- -Rev Bem<BR>_________________________________________________________________________<BR>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.<BR><BR>Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at <BR>http://profiles.msn.com.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:17:28 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Charles Collin &lt;charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca&gt;<BR>Subject: CT/MT careers<BR><BR>"Here's my Generic Expanded Character Generation System (GECGS)."<BR><BR>This is very cool James!&nbsp; I wish I'd thought of something like this a long<BR>time ago.&nbsp; A few questions:<BR><BR>"3.0 Roll 2D each year to determine mission difficulty. Higher is safer."<BR><BR>I think you mean lower is safer, no?&nbsp; It seems that the survival roll goes<BR>up with the MD, as do chances for commision/promotion.&nbsp; <BR><BR>"&nbsp; 3.2 Throw {S+[(D/2)-4]}+ for survival, where D is the mission<BR>difficulty rating and S is the normal survival throw (round up). "<BR><BR>I'd add in a "valor vs. cowardice" rule whereby you can trade off bonuses<BR>to survival for minuses to decorations/skills (or vice versa). The reason<BR>is that some of the survival rolls can get pretty hopeless:&nbsp; A scout<BR>rolling a mission diff of 10 has a survival roll of 7 + 5 - 4 = 8+. And<BR>that's going to happen fairly often, especially if you're rolling each<BR>year.<BR><BR>"&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.5 Throw (2D-E)+ for a decoration, where E is the total DMs for<BR>Enlistment in that career."<BR><BR>The more difficult a mission is, the harder it is to get a decoration?&nbsp; I<BR>think you made a mistake here.&nbsp; Unless you really did mean that "higher is<BR>safer" above, in which case the rolls for survival, comm, and promo need<BR>to be fixed (I think).<BR><BR>"&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.6 Throw D+ to gain a skill level, rolled from one fo the four<BR>tables."<BR><BR>Oops, either this is backward, or the others above are.<BR><BR>Cool idea, I think you've just got your + and - mixed up in some places<BR>(or I'm having a terrible mental lapse, that's always possible...).<BR><BR>Charles C.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:13:55 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Carried Away Gearheader<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Leonard wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Its alright though my therapist says I'm getting better he says its just a<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;result of my not having sufficient parts to repair the jump drive.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; Contact Jesse, apparently he knows a guy who is an excellent parts<BR>&gt;&gt; fabricator...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Yeah, but where's he going to get directionally stabilized<BR>&gt;lanthanum-lithium alloy.<BR><BR>Ha ha!<BR><BR>Actually, the image in my mind was _Back to the Future_ where the Professor<BR>replaces one burnt-out chip. The valve-based replacement *just* fits on the<BR>bonnet...<BR><BR>Or Maybe you prefer the Trek crew trying to recrystallise their zuchai - sorry!<BR>dilithium crystals. "Vair are the noo-klee-ar wessels?"<BR><BR>;-)<BR><BR>ObTrav: trying to get a low-tech replacement for an essential part of your<BR>starship would have to be one of the classic s-f plots, and not just limited to<BR>Traveller. This is a great way to force your reluctan^k^k^k^k "brave,<BR>courageous, go-getter" adventurers on-planet and into the path of your scenario.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:15:03 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Quantum Computing<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; Quantum Computing:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; so until I ping the NT-Sever, I don't know if it is up or down<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; OT: doesn't pinging the server change it's state?<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;No, that would imply the NT-Server was "up" or "down" before&nbsp; you<BR>&gt;ping it.&nbsp; Actually, it would be neither ... it would be a quantum<BR>&gt;probability wave function that collapses into&nbsp; the&nbsp; certainty&nbsp; of<BR>&gt;"up" or "down" when pinged.<BR><BR>Ah, the "Schrodinger's NT Server" thought experiment...<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:15:22 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Peter wrote:<BR>&gt;Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt;players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)<BR><BR>The Ottem.<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt;between different versions of the Traveller universe.<BR>[etc]<BR>&gt;Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission: to reintegrate the timeline!<BR><BR>Shhh! One of my players is on this list!!<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3197<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<TD><B>Traveller-digest V1999 #3198</B></TD></TR>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3198<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>Re: Princess Bride<BR>Special PSI Powers (long)<BR>Julian May (Was: Re: "other" psi powers)<BR>Julian May (Was: Re: "other" psi powers)<BR>HGS version 1.04 released<BR>Re: "other" psi powers<BR>"The Duelists" (was Re: Princess Bride)<BR>Re: "other" psi powers<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>RE: Uniforms<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: "other" psi powers<BR>What Happened to Traveller On-line?<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:32:47 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Someone asked:<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;What sort of uniforms do you imagine for Imperial/Zhodani/etc. Navy,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Marine and Scout personnel?<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; The one thing I did make universal among Scout s was the TL-15 Vacc Suit<BR>&gt;&gt; from MT.&nbsp; This was a skinsuit, and just looked like the sort of things<BR>&gt;&gt;that a Scout would wear all the time.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Did not FASA (I think that ws the company) put out a Scout supplement that<BR>&gt;had a Scout Uniform in it that doubles as Armor, ID, and last ditch defense<BR>&gt;mechanism?<BR><BR>1. DGP's supplements _Grand Survey_ (CT) and _World Builder's Handbook_ (MT<BR>update) contained the Scout uniforms, including tailored TL 15 vacc suits and<BR>non-rip utility jackets.<BR><BR>2. _Scouts and Assassins_ contained the last-ditch defence of a pistol charge in<BR>the belt buckle (cool buckle design, too!). Contained the owner's DNA, too, from<BR>memory (and thus ID).<BR><BR>3. _First In_ contains a brilliant GMG picture of a bunch of (obviously) Field<BR>Scouts being decorated by an (obviously) Bureaucracy Scout. This should *at<BR>least* be considered a compulsory extrapolation of the DGP "catalogue shots"...<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 12:33:29 +1100<BR>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>Dear Folks -<BR><BR>Alan wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; From: Ian Ferguson<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is worth mentioning that some of us still have hydrogen plasma<BR>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; spewing out the rear at reletivistic speed as a ship accelerates.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;It is probably not worth mentioning that my brain chose to read the passage<BR>&gt;above completely out of context.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Space flight would scare me too.<BR><BR>ha-mmmmfh-choke! &lt;desperately-suppressed laughter emerges as a muffled sound&gt;<BR><BR>OK, OK, this one has just taken me 5 minutes to get over. At least I haven't had<BR>to explain it to anyone at work. Yet.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material &amp; opinions contained within are solely those<BR>of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:05:35 -0400 (EDT)<BR>From: Dalton Spence &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt;<BR>Subject: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>With all the furor about the top 10 movies that people would want<BR>the Imperium to know about, nobody (at least as of digest #3191)<BR>seems to have considered that broadcast and cable TV series vastly<BR>outweigh theatrical and TV movies in terms of shear video volume. As<BR>both forms of 2D entertainment are likely to be transcribed to the<BR>same media in the near future, I can visualize an Authentic Terran<BR>Mass Media Convention gathering together future fans of everything<BR>from "I Love Lucy" to "Xena: Warrior Princess" (with some spirited<BR>debates on whether the two famous Lucy's are in any way related).<BR><BR>While some of these would be sedate affairs attended by dignified<BR>academics, others might resemble the ancient fan-run multimedia cons<BR>of the same period lacking only the presence of the original actors<BR>as guests-of-honor. Even so, a truly dedicated "fan-de-fen" might<BR>partially remedy this by feeding some surviving footage of celebrity<BR>con appearances into an interactive program to allow holographic<BR>replicas to answer questions from a live audience. Canon debates<BR>would take on a new dimension with the added problem of determining<BR>whether those newly rediscovered "lost episodes" are Authentic or<BR>"faker-vision" fanfic. (See the ultimate nerd: an Authentic SMOF!)<BR><BR>What TV programs would you like to see survive the Long Night?<BR><BR>ObTrav: The PCs are hired on as professional security for an ATMM<BR>Con on a resort world, and must deal with all the usual problems a<BR>ConSec must face *PLUS* any commercial or political intrigues that<BR>might use the con as a cover. (Remember in a TU, Traveller as a game<BR>doesn't exist but *OTHER* RPGs might.)<BR><BR>- --<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; @==================================================@<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Dalton S. Spence, B.Sc. &lt;dalton.spence@hwcn.org&gt; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; | Home Page: http://www.hwcn.org/~ag775/home.html&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Family Motto: Virtute Acquiritur Honos&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; &nbsp; "Trade is the lifeblood of the Imperium."&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Cleon I, First Emperor of the Third Imperium&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Snoopy is the railroad; a dead relative was&nbsp; &nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; |&nbsp; threatened by the editorial department. FNORD!&nbsp; |<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; @==================================================@<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:09:29 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: Re: Princess Bride<BR><BR>On 10/17/00 at 10:44 AM,&nbsp; Michael Houghton &lt;herveus@Radix.Net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; And what is (IMO) the finest duelling scene in movie history<BR>&gt;&gt; (beating out Basil vs Errol in Robin Hood and Basil vs Danny in<BR>&gt;&gt; the Court Jester by a small margin) .&nbsp; .&nbsp; .<BR><BR>&gt;Although I do like the Sean Connery vs.&nbsp; Robert Shaw duel in Robin<BR>&gt;&amp; Marian.&nbsp; Two old guys having it out...&nbsp; *gasp* *wheeze*<BR><BR>The fight amist the laundry in The Three Musketeers is my favorite,<BR>although I guess that doesn't qualify as a duel...more a brawl. &lt;g&gt;<BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:21:54 -0400<BR>From: "Alan M. Nuss" &lt;amnuss@atl.mediaone.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Special PSI Powers (long)<BR><BR>I don't remember where I got these from.<BR><BR>Antipsionic: This power enables the user to project an anti-psionic<BR>field making it more difficult for others within that field to use their<BR>powers.&nbsp; The effective strength of the field diminishes with the<BR>distance between the anti-psionic and the psionicist attempting to use<BR>their powers.&nbsp; The effective strength of the field then becomes the<BR>additional cost to the psionicist attempting to use his powers.<BR>Effective strength of the field is Psi strength minus the distance to<BR>the psionic in range bands beyond Contact.<BR>Cost: +1 per range band from psi attempting power.<BR>Duration: As long as the user remains conscious.<BR><BR>Battery: A character may transfer some or all of his Psionic Strength to<BR>another psionicist.&nbsp; Points lost in the transfer can be recovered<BR>normally (through rest). The cost is equal to the number of points<BR>transferred PLUS range costs (+1 per range band).<BR>Cost: +1 per point transferred; +1 per range band beyond contact.<BR>Duration: Instant<BR><BR>Drain: The character may drain the Psionic Strength of another<BR>psionicist right into his own.&nbsp; Draining against an unwilling mind will<BR>require an Average Task roll as per Telepath rules.&nbsp; Points drained can<BR>be added to the attackers own Psi or just simply dissipated.<BR>Cost: +1 ; +1 per range band beyond contact.<BR>Duration: Instant<BR><BR>Eidetic Memory: The individual is capable of remembering minute details<BR>of a scene or item.&nbsp; Even a fleeting glimpse will yield a surprising<BR>amount of detail, and the individual can perform impressive feats with a<BR>short study period.&nbsp; To recall events exactly requires a task roll, with<BR>the difficulty depending on the amount of time available to accomplish<BR>that (1 second = Impossible).&nbsp; This ability may also be used in<BR>conjunction with Clairvoyance or Clairaudience, if the character in<BR>question has either.&nbsp; -1 difficulty level for each successive doubling<BR>of time.<BR>Cost: None.<BR><BR>Empathic Healing:&nbsp; The character may transfer wounds - in their entirety<BR>only - from others to himself.&nbsp; The skill level required for the<BR>transfer is equal to the points of damage.&nbsp; The empath heals normally.<BR>It is possible for a character to kill himself this way if he accepts<BR>enough wounds to reduce all three of his characteristics to zero.<BR>Costs: +1 per damage point removed; +1 per range band beyond contact.<BR>Duration: Instant.<BR><BR>Healing: The character may perform any of the abilities listed under the<BR>Awareness Discipline, but only&nbsp; on others, not himself.<BR>Cost: Normal cost of ability; +1 per range band beyond contact.<BR>Duration: Instant.<BR><BR>Invisibility:&nbsp; The character may become invisible to all surrounding<BR>minds.&nbsp; He occupies a sort of blind spot in the visual cortex of those<BR>people affected.&nbsp; Invisibility is ineffective against trained telepaths,<BR>as well as those using a psionic shield helmet.<BR>Cost: None<BR>Duration: Indefinite at discretion of user.<BR><BR>Mimic:&nbsp; The character has a natural mind shield.&nbsp; However, instead of<BR>encountering the static of a regular psionic defense, telepaths who<BR>attempt to probe the character perceive an unshielded mind with a<BR>personality fabricated by the character this is described in detail,<BR>with the quality of the description determining the believability of the<BR>construct.&nbsp; Clairvoyants will see and/or hear images appropriate to a<BR>mimics assumed form, instead of the mimics real appearance.<BR>Cost: None.<BR>Duration: Indefinite.<BR><BR>Rapid Recharge:&nbsp; The character is able to recover Psionic Strength<BR>points at twice the speed or regular psionicists.&nbsp; The recovery begins<BR>after 1.5 hours of time have elapsed since the last psionic activity,<BR>instead of 3 hours.&nbsp; Regains 1 psi point each 30 minutes after that.<BR>Cost: None.<BR>Duration: Indefinite.<BR><BR>Telecryogencis:&nbsp; The character can produce intense cold and ice in a<BR>specific area.&nbsp; The result is a cold source that lasts about 60 seconds<BR>and can be manipulated to moved at walking speed.&nbsp; The user is not<BR>immune to his own cold.<BR>Cost: +1 per range band beyond contact.<BR>&nbsp; Duration: 60 seconds.<BR><BR><BR>PS Effect<BR>1 Ice cube<BR>3 Intense cold<BR>5 Dry ice; freeze a cup of water in 60 seconds<BR>7 Freeze a liter of water in 60 seconds<BR>9 Liquid nitrogen; freeze most small objects<BR><BR>Teleprojection:&nbsp; The character can perform any of the abilities listed<BR>for the Teleporation Discipline, but only&nbsp; on others.&nbsp; Costs are the<BR>same as for Teleportations, with an additional cost for the range<BR>between the psionicist and the intended target.<BR>Cost: Regular Teleporation costs; +1 per range band beyond contact.<BR>Duration: Instant.<BR><BR>Telepyrotechics:&nbsp; The character can produce intense heat and or flame in<BR>a specific area.&nbsp; The result is a heat source that lasts for 60 seconds<BR>and can be manipulated or moved at walking speed.&nbsp; the user is not<BR>immune to the effects of his heat.<BR>Cost:&nbsp; +1 per range band beyond contact.<BR>Duration: 60 seconds.<BR><BR>PS Effect<BR>1&nbsp; Candle flame<BR>3 Bunsen burner<BR>5 Fire; boil cup of water in 60 seconds<BR>7 Oxyacetylene torch; cut 1 in. steel in 60 seconds<BR>9 Fusion torch; cut average starship hull thickness<BR><BR>Alan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:35:38 -0400<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Julian May (Was: Re: "other" psi powers)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:05:10 +0200<BR>&gt; From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Megan wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I did once consider rebuilding TRAVELLER psionics using the powers<BR>&gt; &gt; described in Julian May's 'Many-Coloured Land' and following books.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hmmm. Never heard of those. Are they fiction books or rule books (and if so,<BR>&gt; what's the name of the game?)?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Julian May has two series, The Saga of the Pliocene Exile (The Many<BR>Colored Land, The Golden Torc, The Nonborn King, and The Adversary) and<BR>the Galactic Milieu Trilogy (Jack the Bodiless, Diamond Mask,<BR>Magnificat) and a book between the series titled _Intervention_. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; As noted, the author describes psionics using five (later six)<BR>categories. The technology is around TL 15 or slightly better with the<BR>addition of force fields, and many of the gadgets could be adapted with<BR>with out much difficulty. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; There are suppose to be a number of alien races about, but they are<BR>never described well. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; You do not want to get Felice mad at you. <BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:35:38 -0400<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Julian May (Was: Re: "other" psi powers)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:05:10 +0200<BR>&gt; From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Megan wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Greetings dear hearts.<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I did once consider rebuilding TRAVELLER psionics using the powers<BR>&gt; &gt; described in Julian May's 'Many-Coloured Land' and following books.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Hmmm. Never heard of those. Are they fiction books or rule books (and if so,<BR>&gt; what's the name of the game?)?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Julian May has two series, The Saga of the Pliocene Exile (The Many<BR>Colored Land, The Golden Torc, The Nonborn King, and The Adversary) and<BR>the Galactic Milieu Trilogy (Jack the Bodiless, Diamond Mask,<BR>Magnificat) and a book between the series titled _Intervention_. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; As noted, the author describes psionics using five (later six)<BR>categories. The technology is around TL 15 or slightly better with the<BR>addition of force fields, and many of the gadgets could be adapted with<BR>with out much difficulty. <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; There are suppose to be a number of alien races about, but they are<BR>never described well. <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; You do not want to get Felice mad at you. <BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 16:21:07 +1300<BR>From: "Andrew Moffatt-Vallance" &lt;a.vallance@netaccess.co.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: HGS version 1.04 released<BR><BR>I've just uploaded copies of version 1.04 of High Guard Shipyard to my <BR>website and the CT-starships files area. This is just an interm bug fix while <BR>I work on 1.1. it fixes bugs with small craft fuel scoops and reporting of <BR>planetoid armour. The JTAS crew option is disabled because that feature is <BR>not yet implimented, so don't worry that you can't enable it.<BR><BR>&nbsp; http://www.downport.com/amv/hgs/hgs.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:49:50 -0400<BR>From: Thom Jones-Low &lt;tjoneslo@together.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:48:39 +0200<BR>&gt; From: "Tage Borg" &lt;tage@hem.passagen.se&gt;<BR>&gt; Subject: "other" psi powers<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I was reading through the CT PSI power rules last night and started thinking<BR>&gt; about powers in the "other" group. Has anyone compiled a list of such<BR>&gt; powers? (I.e. new power categories and/or abilities.) If so, can I find them<BR>&gt; on the web somewhere? If not (and perhaps if there is a lot of material<BR>&gt; apart from the stuff published on the 'net), I'd be willing to take<BR>&gt; submissions and post a combined list to the TML, if there is interest.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; /Tage<BR>&gt; <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; The usual set of psionics rules I use are a slight modification of<BR>Traveller Psionic rules written by Kenneth Burke, published in early<BR>Space Gamers (#17 and #20 IIRC). <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; He separated the telepathic attack into Mind Blast with three levels of<BR>ability (Stun, Injure, Kill), Mind control, Mind Transfer, and Three new<BR>Awareness talents: Full body functions control (control heart beat,<BR>breathing etc.), Full Inner Strength Potential (Use the Chi to give<BR>super human abilities) and Astral Projection. He also modified how<BR>Telekinesis and Teleport worked (both are now mass based). <BR><BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; If you want a good list of alternate psionic abilities, check GURPS<BR>Psionics. <BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Thomas Jones-Low<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; tjoneslo@together.net<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:23:56 -0500<BR>From: eris@pcola.gulf.net<BR>Subject: "The Duelists" (was Re: Princess Bride)<BR><BR>On 10/17/00 at 12:03 PM,&nbsp; "Thom Harris" &lt;thomharr@mediaone.net&gt; said:<BR><BR>&gt;Actually that whole movie was pretty good and yes the dueling<BR>&gt;scenes were EXCELLENT. Kind of a *sleeper* movie with Keith<BR>&gt;Carradine and Harvey Keitel....I really enjoyed it more the second<BR>&gt;time I watched it.<BR><BR>Yes, absolutely!&nbsp; It's the best thing Ridley Scott has ever done, and I *do* know what else he has directed.&nbsp; Here dueling was presented savage and brutal "full body combat" not a "gentlemanly sport", a difference in style among the various movies suggested.&nbsp; <BR><BR>Eris<BR>- -- <BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>eris@pcola.gulf.net&nbsp; &nbsp; using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>http://www.crosswinds.net/~erisr<BR>- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:16:01<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>At 03:48 PM 10/22/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>&gt;I was reading through the CT PSI power rules last night and started thinking<BR>&gt;about powers in the "other" group.<BR><BR>The only one that I made that I can remember was the ability to force<BR>illusions on others.&nbsp; This was based on the "push" from Stephen King's<BR>_Firestarter_.&nbsp; At low levels, it only worked on small objects.. you could<BR>convice the customs official that the manifest did have the needed<BR>signature, or that the 5 credit note was a Cr 500.<BR><BR>As power improved, the scope of the illusions improved.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:29:16<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>At 02:18 PM 10/22/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;For a perfect example, let's look at the transporter in Star Trek.<BR><BR>My favorite bit of transporter lore comes in the Next Gen episode "Rascals."<BR><BR>In this, Picard, Ro, and Chief Bartender Whoopie are reduced in age to<BR>pre-teen states, while keeping their full intellect and memories.<BR><BR>Congrats, Enterprise, you just invented eternal youth!&nbsp; Since the effect<BR>was identifiable, and correctable, they could do it again.<BR><BR>All you do is step into the transporter at 80, come out as a spry 12 year<BR>old.&nbsp; Or in my case, keep recycling before my 28th birthday, and never get<BR>cancer!&nbsp; Lifelong smoker?&nbsp; Zap it!<BR><BR>Did this ever get mentioned again?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; In fact, this one episode negates<BR>the entire plot of ST: Insurrection.<BR><BR>&gt;The whole point of Newton's laws is that the two happen at the same<BR>&gt;instant, symmetrically.&nbsp; You can with perfect accuracy view the Space<BR>&gt;Shuttle as the reaction mass that some hydrazine molecules are using to<BR>&gt;propel themselves out of low earth orbit. :) <BR><BR>Darn clever molecules.<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:43:35<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>At 01:12 PM 10/22/2000 EDT, you wrote:<BR><BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; Given the reputation of the scout service, for every casual nudist the <BR>&gt;simply threw a towel over ant surface that couldn't be cleaned with a <BR>&gt;handi-wipe, there is a anal retentive, obsessive/compulsive, detail freak <BR>&gt;that polishes his shoes and buttons, dressing in full Class As for an <BR>&gt;'officer's mess' of 1.&nbsp; You know, the classic British colonialist who <BR>&gt;dressed in coat and tie for dinner in the 100+ degree (F) heat.<BR><BR>British Air has been doing a series of radio ads with the theme "the<BR>British really know how to travel.&nbsp; My favorite:<BR><BR>(British India, circa 1890)<BR><BR>Sally:&nbsp; "Oh look, there's Nigel!"<BR><BR>Sally and Cliff:&nbsp; "Hello Nigel!"<BR><BR>Nigel: "Hello!"<BR><BR>Sally: "Where's Audrey?"<BR><BR>Nigel: "I'm afraid the tigers got her.."<BR><BR>Sally: "Oh dear, won't you stay for dinner?"<BR><BR>Nigel: "I would, but I'm afraid I've lost my dinner jacket."<BR><BR>Sally and Cliff: "Ohh..."<BR><BR>Sally: "Well, you can borrow Stanley's.&nbsp; He won't recover from the malaira<BR>for weeks!"<BR><BR>All: "Jolly good!"<BR><BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 20:32:25<BR>From: "Douglas E. Berry" &lt;gridlore@pop.mindspring.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Uniforms<BR><BR>At 10:45 PM 10/22/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>&gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why bother?&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;Please don't encourage SF fans to turn up to conventions naked, Doug.<BR>&gt;Please.<BR><BR>hehehehe.. I'll just take off my glasses and everybody becomes beige blobs..<BR>- -- <BR><BR>Douglas E. Berry&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:13:40 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 16:17:35 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; If one were to take a balloon and fill it with the proper mixture of<BR>&gt; helium and oxygen, would this result in a zero bouyancy in air? <BR><BR>Yes, if you also allow for the weight of the balloon material.&nbsp; But it's<BR>far easier (and more useful) to use pure helium, and then add payload,<BR>structure, and ballast mass until you achieve neutral buoyancy.<BR><BR>I used to do this with every toy helium balloon I'd obtain as a<BR>kid...paperclips make great incremental ballast.&nbsp; When you're done, the<BR>mass of the ballast weight gives the whole system some inertia, so the<BR>balloon will hover motionless or accelerate slowly with air currents if<BR>there are any.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:25:10 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Craig Berry &lt;cberry@cinenet.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 19:47:51 CDT<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But: Are T-Plates *really* actionless/reactionless? GURPS Space<BR>&gt; describes reactionless drive as those which do not push against anything<BR>&gt; for acceleration. T-Plates "push" against the gravity well of a star,<BR>&gt; don't they? <BR><BR>So said FF&amp;S.&nbsp; The problem is, that "pushing" against the g-well of a star<BR>is effectively saying you're pushing against the star itself.&nbsp; This<BR>satisfies conservation of momentum nicely; alas, it does not satisfy<BR>conservation of energy.&nbsp; If it did, it would cost exponentially more<BR>energy to accelerate as your velocity relative to the star increased.<BR>This would neatly solve the "killer lifeboat" problem, but would also<BR>introduce some nasty math in place of the currently simple t-plate<BR>maneuver rules.&nbsp; And in fact, the resulting performance would act enough<BR>like a traditional reaction drive that you might as well just use HEPlaR<BR>instead.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |&nbsp;&nbsp; Craig Berry - http://www.cinenet.net/~cberry/<BR>--*--&nbsp; "Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum viditur."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; |<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:56:15 EDT<BR>From: Sethkimmel@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/22/00 1:55:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; It sounds like the TML converted into a game setting.&nbsp; Oh dear. &gt;&gt;<BR><BR>Now THERE'S a concept...:-). Sounds like an old friend of mine who in a fit <BR>of wierdness one weekend announced that we are now running an Aftermath <BR>session with ourselves as our own characters two weeks after the Steven <BR>Kingesque superplague (gee how convient; we're all immunes...:-)). He made us <BR>inventory our pockets and our personal posessions and that's all the <BR>equipment we could start with. I felt lucky; I had my Swiss Army knife on my <BR>belt. Needless to say the first thing we did was look for a sporting goods <BR>store...:-).<BR><BR>Ob Trav: Not a damn thing...:-)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:47:37 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; At 19:13 -0400 21/10/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt;DNeither. The bit about the "Han consul" makes it the book ("Armageddon:<BR>&gt;&gt;2419 AD" by Phillip Nowlan(?)) or maybe the comic strip.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I thought you were doing a Cherryh cross over here and that the Kif <BR>&gt; might have appeared too...<BR><BR>That'd be "Hani", not "Han".<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:26:55 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>I've had the Players play themselves.... they hate it... really intensly<BR>loathe it.... they really don't like being themselves... they wanna be<BR>people mush more skilled, powerful, and generally heroic.....<BR><BR>So after doing it a couple of times, everytime I suggest it now I am<BR>told exactly what I can do with the idea! ;)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Sethkimmel@aol.com [mailto:Sethkimmel@aol.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 3:56 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: Re: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In a message dated 10/22/00 1:55:24 AM !!!First Boot!!!, <BR>&gt; alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au writes:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; It sounds like the TML converted into a game setting.&nbsp; Oh dear. &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Now THERE'S a concept...:-). Sounds like an old friend of <BR>&gt; mine who in a fit <BR>&gt; of wierdness one weekend announced that we are now running an <BR>&gt; Aftermath <BR>&gt; session with ourselves as our own characters two weeks after <BR>&gt; the Steven <BR>&gt; Kingesque superplague (gee how convient; we're all <BR>&gt; immunes...:-)). He made us <BR>&gt; inventory our pockets and our personal posessions and that's all the <BR>&gt; equipment we could start with. I felt lucky; I had my Swiss <BR>&gt; Army knife on my <BR>&gt; belt. Needless to say the first thing we did was look for a <BR>&gt; sporting goods <BR>&gt; store...:-).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ob Trav: Not a damn thing...:-)<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 00:36:51 -0500<BR>From: Jimmy Simpson &lt;nimrod@santech.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: "other" psi powers<BR><BR>&gt;At 03:48 PM 10/22/2000 +0200, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;I was reading through the CT PSI power rules last night and started thinking<BR>&gt; &gt;about powers in the "other" group.<BR>There is an article in Challenge 47 about Special Psionics (written for MT).<BR>It includes:<BR>Compression<BR>Cryokinesis<BR>Disruption<BR>Enhancement<BR>Hallucination<BR>Link<BR>Memory<BR>Pyrokinesis<BR>Static<BR>Techempathy<BR>Teleport (Others)<BR><BR><BR>Jimmy Simpson<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; nimrodd@mail.com<BR>"Cannot say.<BR>&nbsp; Saying, I would know.<BR>&nbsp; Do not know.<BR>&nbsp; So cannot say."<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -Zathras (Babylon 5)<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:33:12 -0700<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: What Happened to Traveller On-line?<BR><BR>Well, what happened? It had a very promising start. It was a great way to<BR>decompress for a few minutes at work. Just like NetHack 3.3.1, which was<BR>recently released.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:37:26 -0700<BR>From: Luther Martin &lt;martin@ksarul.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Paul Harris wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; I've had the Players play themselves.... they hate it... really intensly<BR>&gt; loathe it.... they really don't like being themselves... they wanna be<BR>&gt; people mush more skilled, powerful, and generally heroic.....<BR><BR>But some of us *are* skilled, powerful, and generally heroic.....<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3198<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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<P align=left><FONT color=#0f0f0f face=Arial size=2 PTSIZE="10" BACK="#FFFFFE"><BR><BR>----------------------- Headers --------------------------------<BR>Return-Path: &lt;owner-traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>Received: from&nbsp; rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc02.mail.aol.com (v76_r1.8) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:53:01 -0400<BR>Received: from&nbsp; lists.ient.com (lists.ient.com [204.85.32.11]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (v76_r1.19) with ESMTP; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:52:20 -0400<BR>Received: from localhost (daemon@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) with SMTP id BAA20043;<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:50:34 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller@lists.ient.com)<BR>Received: by lists.ient.com (bulk_mailer v1.12); Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:49:01 -0400<BR>Received: (from majordom@localhost)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; by lists.ient.com (8.9.3/8.9.2) id BAA19996<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; for traveller-digest-outgoing; Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:49:00 -0400 (EDT)<BR>&nbsp; &nbsp; (envelope-from owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com)<BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 01:49:00 -0400 (EDT)<BR>Message-Id: &lt;200010230549.BAA19996@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>From: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>To: traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Subject: Traveller-digest V1999 #3198<BR>Reply-To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>Sender: owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR><BR></FONT></P></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML><HTML><HEAD><BASE></HEAD>
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<TD bgColor=#ffffff colSpan=2><I>From:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com (Traveller-digest)<BR>Sender:&nbsp; &nbsp; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR>Reply-to:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>To:&nbsp; &nbsp; traveller-digest@lists.ient.com<BR></I></TD></TR></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><BR></FONT><FONT size=2 PTSIZE="10"><BR><BR>Traveller-digest&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Monday, October 23 2000&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Volume 1999 : Number 3199<BR><BR><BR><BR>(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>All rights reserved.<BR><BR>The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR><BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>RE: Question about canon technology<BR>RE: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>Law of Unintended Consequences (was Question about canon technology)<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Question about canon technology<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Uniforms<BR>Re: Albedo using CT<BR>Re: Albedo using CT<BR>Re: Miles Vorkosigan (was: Question about canon technology)<BR>Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 19:15:26 +1300<BR>From: "Frank G. Pitt" &lt;frankie@mundens.gen.nz&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Luther Martin wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; Paul Harris wrote:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt; I've had the Players play themselves.... they hate it... really intensly<BR>&gt; &gt; loathe it.... they really don't like being themselves... they wanna be<BR>&gt; &gt; people mush more skilled, powerful, and generally heroic.....<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But some of us *are* skilled, powerful, and generally heroic.....<BR><BR>Exactly !<BR><BR>We enjoyed doing it. We did it for two seperate games, one was an Aftermath<BR>campaign the other was a "find the gateway to the D&amp;D world" type game.<BR><BR>Then again, our group of players at the time could argue that we had quite a<BR>few useful skils, and several of us had access to reasonably good weaponry<BR>and other equipment.<BR><BR>We went hunting bullette in a Landrover with SLRs and 303s...<BR><BR>Frankie<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:51:29 +1100<BR>From: Paul Harris &lt;paul.harris@dytech.com.au&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; -----Original Message-----<BR>&gt; From: Luther Martin [mailto:martin@ksarul.com]<BR>&gt; Sent: Monday, October 23, 2000 4:37 PM<BR>&gt; To: traveller@lists.ient.com<BR>&gt; Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Paul Harris wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; I've had the Players play themselves.... they hate it... <BR>&gt; really intensly<BR>&gt; &gt; loathe it.... they really don't like being themselves... <BR>&gt; they wanna be<BR>&gt; &gt; people mush more skilled, powerful, and generally heroic.....<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; But some of us *are* skilled, powerful, and generally heroic.....<BR><BR>..... and modest.... dont forget modest! <BR><BR>;) <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:45:28 -0700<BR>From: Evyn MacDude &lt;wmacdude@worldnet.att.net&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>"Douglas E. Berry" wrote:<BR><BR>&gt; At 10:45 PM 10/22/2000 +1300, you wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt;Douglas E. Berry wrote<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;&gt; To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why bother?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR>&gt; &gt;Please don't encourage SF fans to turn up to conventions naked, Doug.<BR>&gt; &gt;Please.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; hehehehe.. I'll just take off my glasses and everybody becomes beige blobs..<BR>&gt;<BR><BR>Um... I'm kinda a pastey white.<BR><BR>- --<BR>Evyn...<BR><BR>C-Space home http://home.att.net/~wmacdude/<BR><BR>Wish I was a better person...&nbsp;&nbsp; with more control...<BR>Turn the other cheek...&nbsp;&nbsp; and when the punch comes, roll...<BR>Wish I was a kinder person...&nbsp;&nbsp; could see the others pain...<BR>Not over react, not judge...&nbsp;&nbsp; and shrug off the spreadin' stain.<BR>Damaged, by John Shirley/Donald Roeser, BOC, Heaven Forbid 1998.<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:03:44 +0100<BR>From: SD Mooney &lt;dom@cybergoths.u-net.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Re: Loren's Keyboard Kill Rating (was Re: New FAQ addition)<BR><BR>At 1:49 -0400 23/10/00, shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; I thought you were doing a Cherryh cross over here and that the Kif<BR>&gt; &gt; might have appeared too...<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;That'd be "Hani", not "Han".<BR><BR>I just assumed it was a singular / plural thing...<BR><BR>Dom<BR><BR>- ----------Dom Mooney---dom@cybergoths.u-net.com------------<BR>"We tell the tales of heroes to remind ourselves that we too<BR>can be great" - John Wick, 7th Sea<BR>http://www.cybergoths.u-net.com&nbsp;&nbsp; http://www.bits.org.uk/ <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 08:25:49 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Don't forget the very real possibility that another organization of<BR>&gt; &gt; time travellers will exist with a vested interest in <BR>&gt; &gt; de-integrating the<BR>&gt; &gt; time line. Or at least integrating to a different time line than the<BR>&gt; &gt; PC organization. There could conceivably be a number of different<BR>&gt; &gt; groups each intent on preserving a different version of reality.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It sounds like the TML converted into a game setting.&nbsp; Oh dear.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>I can't wait for the next SJG sourcebook: GURPS Leonard Erickson :)<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:41:20 EDT<BR>From: Kagehira@aol.com<BR>Subject: Re: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>In a message dated 10/22/00 10:53:01 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR><BR><BR>&gt; 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; With all the furor about the top 10 movies that people would want<BR>&gt; the Imperium to know about, nobody (at least as of digest #3191)<BR>&gt; seems to have considered that broadcast and cable TV series vastly<BR>&gt; outweigh theatrical and TV movies in terms of shear video volume. As<BR>&gt; both forms of 2D entertainment are likely to be transcribed to the<BR>&gt; same media in the near future, I can visualize an Authentic Terran<BR>&gt; Mass Media Convention gathering together future fans of everything<BR>&gt; from "I Love Lucy" to "Xena: Warrior Princess" (with some spirited<BR>&gt; debates on whether the two famous Lucy's are in any way related).<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; While some of these would be sedate affairs attended by dignified<BR>&gt; academics, others might resemble the ancient fan-run multimedia cons<BR>&gt; of the same period lacking only the presence of the original actors<BR>&gt; as guests-of-honor. Even so, a truly dedicated "fan-de-fen" might<BR>&gt; partially remedy this by feeding some surviving footage of celebrity<BR>&gt; con appearances into an interactive program to allow holographic<BR>&gt; replicas to answer questions from a live audience. Canon debates<BR>&gt; would take on a new dimension with the added problem of determining<BR>&gt; whether those newly rediscovered "lost episodes" are Authentic or<BR>&gt; "faker-vision" fanfic. (See the ultimate nerd: an Authentic SMOF!)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; What TV programs would you like to see survive the Long Night?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Actually that's what operation Longbow was created for.... Strephon was <BR>called away to watch Survivor......<BR><BR>Bryan<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 09:08:49 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; At 02:18 PM 10/22/2000 -0700, you wrote:<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt;For a perfect example, let's look at the transporter in Star Trek.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; My favorite bit of transporter lore comes in the Next Gen <BR>&gt; episode "Rascals."<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; In this, Picard, Ro, and Chief Bartender Whoopie are reduced in age to<BR>&gt; pre-teen states, while keeping their full intellect and memories.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Congrats, Enterprise, you just invented eternal youth!&nbsp; Since <BR>&gt; the effect<BR>&gt; was identifiable, and correctable, they could do it again.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; All you do is step into the transporter at 80, come out as a <BR>&gt; spry 12 year<BR>&gt; old.&nbsp; Or in my case, keep recycling before my 28th birthday, <BR>&gt; and never get<BR>&gt; cancer!&nbsp; Lifelong smoker?&nbsp; Zap it!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Did this ever get mentioned again?&nbsp; No.&nbsp; In fact, this one <BR>&gt; episode negates<BR>&gt; the entire plot of ST: Insurrection.<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Nah, not really an issue. Federation law states that anything even remotely<BR>cool which might have any change on society whatsoever has to be suppressed.<BR>This is so the Federation can stay away from anything that might make them<BR>make difficult ethical decisions. The Federation has a set code of ethics,<BR>and Starship captains recieve special training on how to patronise and<BR>moralise to aliens. Also, any new and exciting tech has to be kept away from<BR>the other Civilisations, 'cause they're misguided and they'll only misuse<BR>it...<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 17:29:33 +0800<BR>From: "Antony Farrell" &lt;Skaran@bigpond.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: 2-D TV That Survived The Long Night?<BR><BR>Oh those poor people!<BR>Antony<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:05:27 -0700 (PDT)<BR>From: Gerry Harris &lt;harrisgwjr@yahoo.com&gt;<BR>Subject: Law of Unintended Consequences (was Question about canon technology)<BR><BR>My best Traveller-related story about the LoUC has to do with the<BR>Broadsword Adventure.<BR><BR>Seems the guys I refereed for this game realized that 30 men, no matter<BR>how well armed, and equipped with two thin-skinned ATVs weren't going<BR>to make a raindrop's impression on the enemy, and decided that those<BR>two cutters weren't along just for the looks.&nbsp; I made the mistake of<BR>allowing them to pick the four modules their cutters would carry. <BR>Needless to say, two of them were weapons packs.<BR><BR>The first scenario went pretty much as standard, but the players used<BR>the cutters as AFVs and pretty much wasted the opposition.&nbsp; There was<BR>no scenario two, though, as they decided to use one of the cutters<BR>(switching to passenger module) to transport the prisoners and the unit<BR>back to base -- so all the carefully-detailed maps I'd made went to<BR>naught.<BR><BR>When the Broadsword left for escort duty, it left its cutters and<BR>modules behind.&nbsp; These, along with the deep-H meson gun site at the<BR>starport, made short work of the entire Gram grav battalion.<BR><BR>Boy did I learn from that game session (which only lasted one night!).<BR><BR>=====<BR>Gerry Harris<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>ther Traveller  http://www.aethertraveller.com <BR>Soldier's Companion  http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Galaxy/6316/Soldiers/soccomp1.html<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR>"Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war"  Antony, "Julius Caesar," Act 3, Scene 1<BR>**********************************************************************************************<BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR>Do You Yahoo!?<BR>Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf!&nbsp; It's FREE.<BR>http://im.yahoo.com/<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 21:48:19 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Removing gravitic technology would have some effects on starship<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; design.&nbsp; HEPlaR would become the standard thrust agency for starships<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (as per TNE).<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; I must admit that I never played anything involving Traveller past<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; MT so if you could please explain to me where I could find<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; information on HEPlaR I would greatly appreciate it.&nbsp; I was<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; assuming a standard hydrogen reaction mass for propulsion (in fact,<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; before MT that is how I had assumed ships used that much fuel...)<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;HEPLar is a *too* efficient reaction drive. It appears to require<BR>&gt;&gt;partial fusion to avoid violating conservation of energy.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Point 1: Maybe it fuses the atoms and then splits them again. Would this <BR>&gt; produce even more power than simply fission/fusion?<BR><BR>Nope. Splitting apart the atoms would *use* as much energy as fusing<BR>them had produced. Exactly as much.<BR><BR>Elements lighter than iron can be fused to produce energy (though you<BR>get less and less as you approach iron). Elements *heavier* than iron<BR>can be split to produce energy. Iron (specificly Iron-56) is at the<BR>peak of the curve of binding energy and you can't get energy from it by<BR>fission *or* fusion.<BR><BR>&gt; Point 2: This is Science Fiction. Technology doesn't _have_ to be strictly <BR>&gt; according to current science.<BR><BR>&lt;sigh&gt; <BR><BR>This argument comes up every few months. Due to the way science works,<BR>we'll *never* find anything that contradicts it. We may find things<BR>that *extend* it. <BR><BR>As an example, Newtonian physics *still* work just fine, as long as you<BR>avoid velocities near c, high gravity fields, and scales where quantum<BR>effects dominate. <BR><BR>To put it a different way, the "laws" we've discovered will *always*<BR>apply under conditions resembling the ones they were originally applied<BR>to. Only under *new* conditions will you get different results.<BR><BR>And the conservation laws and laws of thermodynamics are a rather<BR>different "order" of laws. If *they* can be violated, then the universe<BR>isn't self-consistent.<BR><BR>Which is *not* something you want outside of a fantasy game, and<BR>probably not even then. Especially, in a game. The rules need to be<BR>consistent. <BR><BR>&gt; Thrust-Plates,<BR><BR>*As described*, they are a problem, because you can turn them into a<BR>method of generating unlimited amounts of energy. And it's not even<BR>hard to do. That ruins the background all by itself.<BR><BR>But something *similar* that's consistent with conservation laws isn't<BR>out of the question.<BR><BR>&gt; Artificial Gravity, <BR><BR>Theory says it's doable. It's just that all the methods of doing so we<BR>can think of are impractical.<BR><BR>&gt; the Jump Drive<BR><BR>It doesn't necessarily violate any laws. And it can be ok as long as<BR>you are willing to give up one of two things.<BR><BR>1. Relativity (*real* hard to justify, as we've tested it under a heck<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; of a lot of conditions)<BR><BR>2. strict *local* casuality (it makes the universe a bit weirder, but<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp; not *that* weird)<BR><BR>&gt; - none of them are possible withcurrent or foreseeable technology.<BR><BR>Wrong on two counts. First of all science and technology aren't the<BR>same thing. Not even *close*. Second, as I noted above, playing tricks<BR>with gravity has been written about extensively BY SCIENTISTS. <BR><BR>It's not *practical* with current technology. But we understand *how*<BR>it could be done.<BR><BR>&gt; Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless" drive be <BR>&gt; termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour the <BR>&gt; action of propulsion?<BR><BR>Nope. "Reactionless" is the correct term. There's no reaction mass. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:14:45 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; Point That Has Nothing To Do With HEPLAR: Shouldn't "reactionless" <BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;drive<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;be<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; termed "actionless", as they produce the reaction of thrust withour the<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt; &gt; action of propulsion?<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;&gt;Not really.&nbsp; 'The action' is accelerating the ship.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt;Perhaps, but does the reaction mass have to be shot out of the back of the<BR>&gt;&gt;ship _before_ it accelerates. It seems to me that the "action" that happens<BR>&gt;&gt;second is actually the reaction.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Oops: should say, "doesn't the reaction mass"...<BR><BR>Nope. The ship accelerates *as* the reaction mass is pushed the other<BR>way. The action and reaction are *simultaneous*.<BR><BR>In essence, you are saying "don't I have to touch on the wall before it<BR>'touches back'?" <BR><BR>Action &amp; reaction are opposite "halves" of the *same* event. Not a<BR>"cause &amp; effect" pair.<BR><BR>Get on ice skates, face to face with a friend. Then push. If you weigh<BR>the same, you'll move one way, hell move the other, AND THE POINT WHERE<BR>YOUR HANDS CONTACT HIM WON'T MOVE AT ALL.<BR><BR>Since the gases in a rocket exhaust are made up of molecules that don't<BR>weigh very much, the force pushing them apart make the molecule go in<BR>one direction like a bat out of hell, and the ship move in the other<BR>direction like an arthritic snail.<BR><BR>But there are a *lot* of molecules exiting the ship. So the *sum* of<BR>all those "arthritic snail" bits of momentum adds up to quite a bit.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:27:41 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Question about canon technology<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt;&gt; "Action" and "reaction" are entirely relative in this context.&nbsp; When<BR>&gt;&gt; a rocket engine goes one way and the exhaust goes the other, which<BR>&gt;&gt; is "acting" and which is "reacting?"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; So then actionless and reactionless could be used interchangebly.<BR>&gt; Given the choice, I'd choose reactionless.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; But: Are T-Plates *really* actionless/reactionless? GURPS Space describes <BR>&gt; reactionless drive as those which do not push against anything for <BR>&gt; acceleration. T-Plates "push" against the gravity well of a star, don't <BR>&gt; they?<BR><BR>Nope. If they did, the faster you were moving relative to the star, the<BR>more energy it'd take to accelerate a given amount.<BR><BR>Remember, kinetic energy goes as the *square* of the velocity. <BR><BR>So if it took one unit of energy to get from 0 velocity to 1, it'd take<BR>*3* to get from 1 to 2 (2^2=4, 4-1=3). And so on. <BR><BR>Sort of like pushing on the rim of a bike wheel (that's not touching<BR>the ground. At first, a little push gets it going fairly fast. But<BR>pretty soon, you can't push it hard/fast enough to speed it up any<BR>more. <BR><BR>Reaction drives get around this because they are always pushing on<BR>reaction mass that is *at rest* with respect to the ship. So they are<BR>always doing the "0 to 1" part.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:38:25 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; On Sat, 21 Oct 2000, Douglas E. Berry wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; At 02:52 PM 10/21/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Well, obviously, if I'm at a con, I'm not in the X-boat. :-)<BR>&gt;&gt; BayCon 2002 party theme: "Life in an X-boat"<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Hm, this gives me ideas for Ropecon 2001. Thank You. B-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;And from your comment, I take you're a "casual nudist" at home?<BR>&gt;&gt; Well, in the day before roommates, yes.&nbsp; Why bother?&nbsp; No rain, temperture<BR>&gt;&gt; controlled.. might as well stay naked.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I have always wondered what the ship crews (and passangers, of course) do<BR>&gt; during a jump. A week is a long time to be in a small ship. Now you have<BR>&gt; given me some confirmation on my suspicions...<BR><BR>Stealing an idea from an old SF story...<BR><BR>A planet that's not merely "clothing optional" but has gone all the way<BR>to "clothing is *only* worn when protection is needed".<BR><BR>Rank markings and the like are painted on with body paint, or something<BR>like henna.<BR><BR>Have the PCs need to take passage and there's only one ship in port. A<BR>ship with a crew from that planet. They wear the legal minimum while<BR>off ship (tough they may weare cloaks for protection against the<BR>weather). <BR><BR>But once on ship, the crew is nude. They don't insist on the passengers<BR>following suit. Still, I can see some PCs being a bit disconcerted at<BR>being shown to their cabin by a Steward wearing sandals, a smile, and a<BR>bit of paint...<BR><BR>Extra points: Play a PC from such a planet. <BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:44:29 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Uniforms<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Douglas E. Berry wrote<BR>&gt;&gt; At 04:49 PM 10/20/2000 PST, you wrote:<BR>&gt;&gt; &gt;Anybody have any suggestions for an "X-boat 'pilot'" uniform?<BR>&gt;&gt; <BR>&gt;&gt; To be honest, I doubt I'd wear anything in that boat.&nbsp; Why bother?&nbsp; <BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Please don't encourage SF fans to turn up to conventions naked, Doug.<BR>&gt; Please.<BR><BR>Especially fans with way too out of shape bodies like mine. <BR><BR>Last time I looked, 2/3rds to 3/4th of the fen wearing "skimpy"<BR>costumes shouldn't have.<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 22:48:40 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; In a message dated 10/21/00 4:16:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time, <BR>&gt; owner-traveller-digest@lists.ient.com writes:<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; &lt;&lt; From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; In mail you write:<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Welllll...I can think of one rather complete SF setting with a wide range <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; of humans &amp; furries...<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; Catoids, Snow Leopardiods, Centaurs, Foxiods, skunkoids, and some others.<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; And it also has neat stuff like powered armor and (small) mecha!<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; &gt; I just don't see SJG putting out GURPS:Pendor though.... :-)<BR>&gt;&nbsp; <BR>&gt;&nbsp; Well, maybe if they are willing to market it through adult comic<BR>&gt;&nbsp; distributors.. <BR>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; &gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; OK, you have my interest - what is Pendor?&nbsp; I must have missed that one.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Rod Basler, COFIT&nbsp; (Ack!&nbsp; Two days to go!&nbsp; Too much to do!)<BR><BR>http://www.halcyon.com/elf/<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:37:48 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Albedo using CT<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; Mark Urbin wrote :<BR>&gt;&gt; Welllll...I can think of one rather complete SF setting with a wide range<BR>&gt;&gt; of humans &amp; furries...<BR>&gt;&gt; Catoids, Snow Leopardiods, Centaurs, Foxiods, skunkoids, and some others.<BR>&gt;&gt;<BR>&gt;&gt; I just don't see SJG putting out GURPS:Pendor though.... :-)<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; Maybe not, but I'd buy it !<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; The nearest we've got to this so far was the Theatrix Ironwood supplement,<BR>&gt; but Pendor would&nbsp; be better than Ironwood.<BR>&gt;<BR>&gt; I always intended to have some Traveller players find it one day, because I<BR>&gt; know all my players would be thinking "Ringworld Engineers", Pak, Tree of<BR>&gt; Life, etc, and they'd get centaurs, cats, and bubble baths.<BR><BR>More likely, Pendor would find *them*... :-)<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 23:56:46 PST<BR>From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>Subject: Re: Miles Vorkosigan (was: Question about canon technology)<BR><BR>In mail you write:<BR><BR>&gt; IIRC SJG announced a couple of months ago they picked up the license for<BR>&gt; Miles too. Should make for interesting crossover campaign<BR><BR>Gee, now if they'll just get Honor Harrington...<BR><BR>- -- <BR>Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>shadow@krypton.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &lt;--preferred<BR>leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &lt;--last resort<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 03:12:59 -0700<BR>From: sneadj@mindspring.com<BR>Subject: Re: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR><BR>"Matthew W. Helton" &lt;mwhelton@cox-internet.com&gt; wrote: <BR><BR>&gt; It might. I think you may be on to something.<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; It's not CG, but it just may be feasible to build such a<BR>&gt; craft...however, with current hull design rules, a Factor 40 (Using MT<BR>&gt; Rules) armor thickness hull would probably be quite large...<BR><BR>I'm reminded of a city which was described in a novel by Terry Carr <BR>I read ~ 15 years ago.&nbsp; There was a city build inside a huge <BR>(several kilometer in diameter) lightweight hollow sphere.&nbsp; The <BR>sphere was painted black on top and functioned as a giant hot air <BR>balloon.&nbsp; IIRC it had a population of several 10s of thousands and <BR>was normally neutrally buoyant (if desired it could also go up or <BR>down by changing color or venting hot air.&nbsp; Cool idea for a TL 7 or 8 <BR>world.&nbsp; Btw, anyone know the name of the book this was in, I've <BR>long ago forgotten it.&nbsp;&nbsp; <BR><BR>- -John SNead sneadj@mindspring.com<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; - ----- Original Message -----<BR>&gt; From: "James Jensen" &lt;cheeb0@hotmail.com&gt;<BR>&gt; To: &lt;traveller@lists.ient.com&gt;<BR>&gt; Sent: Sunday, October 22, 2000 4:17 PM<BR>&gt; Subject: Serious Contragravity Suggestion<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; If one were to take a balloon and fill it with the proper mixture of<BR>&gt; helium<BR>&gt; &gt; and oxygen, would this result in a zero bouyancy in air?<BR>&gt; &gt;<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:22:42 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>David Shayne wrote:<BR>&gt; Don't forget the very real possibility that another organization<BR>&gt; of time travellers will exist with a vested interest in<BR>&gt; de-integrating the time line. Or at least integrating to a<BR>&gt; different time line than the PC organization. There could<BR>&gt; conceivably be a number of different groups each intent on<BR>&gt; preserving a different version of reality.<BR><BR>Right.&nbsp; Sounds like a Traveller/TimeMaster crossover.&nbsp; You&nbsp; could<BR>have missions all over the 3I's history (and even&nbsp; before),&nbsp; with<BR>different groups battling for the survival of their timeline.<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:25:38 +0100<BR>From: "Trevor, Peter" &lt;Peter.Trevor@rb.cwplc.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt; &gt; between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; Imagine an<BR>&gt; &gt; adventure where you have to save Strephon from assassination even<BR>&gt; &gt; though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; make&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt; round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission:<BR>&gt; &gt; to reintegrate the timeline!<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ye ghods, that's twisted. Any change you'll run it, and make <BR>&gt; it a pbem? :)<BR><BR>Ha, I'd need to give up my day job to make time to fit it in with<BR>all my other projects.&nbsp; Do you want a crack at running&nbsp; it&nbsp; as&nbsp; a<BR>pbem?<BR><BR>Regards PLST<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 11:30:50 +0100<BR>From: "Jones, Dean" &lt;Dean.Jones@fox-europe.com&gt;<BR>Subject: RE: On To The Far Future (Long)<BR><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Dean Jones wrote:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Got it!&nbsp; We could have&nbsp; a&nbsp; timeTraveller&nbsp; milieu&nbsp; ...&nbsp; where&nbsp; the<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; players (with the aid of an Ancient artifact, of&nbsp; course)&nbsp; bounce<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; between different versions of the Traveller universe.&nbsp; Imagine an<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; adventure where you have to save Strephon from assassination even<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; though you have no official existance (which would&nbsp; make&nbsp; getting<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; round Capital interesting for a start).&nbsp; Their&nbsp; overall&nbsp; mission:<BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; to reintegrate the timeline!<BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Ye ghods, that's twisted. Any change you'll run it, and make <BR>&gt; &gt; it a pbem? :)<BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Ha, I'd need to give up my day job to make time to fit it in with<BR>&gt; all my other projects.&nbsp; Do you want a crack at running&nbsp; it&nbsp; as&nbsp; a<BR>&gt; pbem?<BR>&gt; <BR><BR>Well, I have just shut down my Spinward Marches all-newbie campaign (only my<BR>girlfriend posted, and she's gone back to medical school now and hasn't the<BR>time). I'm game. Anyone interested? Mil off-list please. I'll need a little<BR>time to create some rubber physics and a plausible time machine but...yeah.<BR><BR>Dean<BR><BR>------------------------------<BR><BR>End of Traveller-digest V1999 #3199<BR>***********************************<BR><BR>To unsubscribe to Traveller-Digest, send the command:<BR><BR>unsubscribe traveller-digest<BR><BR>in the body of a message to "traveller-request@lists.ient.com".<BR>If you want to subscribe something other than the account the mail is<BR>coming from, such as a local redistribution list, then append that<BR>address to the "subscribe" command; for example, to subscribe<BR>"local-traveller":<BR><BR>subscribe traveller-digest local-traveller@your.domain.net<BR><BR>A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to<BR>subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"<BR>in the commands above with "traveller".<BR><BR>Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com<BR></I></I></S><XMP></XMP>
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